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  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Pauly said:

    That is disgracefully divisive. As bad as turning away gay people from a cake shop - political persecution.

    Even worse, whoever wrote it doesn't know the plural of persona non grata.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @IanDunt: Joking and my increasingly fragile hetrosexuality aside, Carney really is very impressive. Calm, modest, funny, intelligent.

    @IanDunt: He behaved entirely appropriately during campaign and is now arguably the most important person in British politics in its aftermath.

    @IanDunt: Those who wrote such shrill nonsense about him over the last few weeks are now nowhere to be seen. He is trying to deal with their mess.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    eek said:

    John_M said:

    Scott_P said:

    @kiranstacey: "We were wrong. It will be even worse than we said." https://t.co/w2TXlFbzuU

    Remember what Andrea Leadsom said?

    Mark Carney’s warning that Britain faces a recession if it leaves the EU is “nonsense” and a “totally unjustifiable” intervention, a Government minister has said.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/15/bank-of-england-governors-brexit-warning-is-nonsense-says-minise/
    A material slowing in growth != recession.

    I think he's been too upbeat and Leadsom was wrong. I'm still taking the IMF final report as most likely outcome for 2017. -0.8%.
    I think this bit is more important

    https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/748537377962995713

    Yep... All a central bank can really do is print money (or quantitatively ease) or change interest rates... After 8 years of doing the former having sent rates as low as plausible, you're right there isn't much left that you can do....

    So that's taxes up, more cuts, less business investment, reduced demand. Just as predicted. But Chancellor Gove or Leadsom has promised that we will have one of this. In fact, taxes will go down and spending will go up - including £350 million a week more for the NHS.

    If Corbyn goes the Tories are in deep trouble.

    Yup. Get Corbyn out and install a sensible leader and the Tories are in deep shit.

    May is their best chance, because she is a sensible Remainer.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    SeanT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    Scottish Independence Polling Noodling

    Looking at the Sunday Times/Panelbase poll the big thing that jumps out is that although it is tight with a headline figure of 52/48 ABC1s are more likely ot vote Yes than C2DEs which is an inversion of the IndyRef (both demographics are a Yes vote).

    I think ABC1's were 60/40 in favour of No last time out.

    Not exactly great for Yes if its only 52/48. Once some of the shock and anger unwinds, plus we start talking about our next move which is probably not going to look a lit different to today, it won't take a big swing to No for Sturgeon to back down.
    More thoughtful Nats have already realised that Brexit is actually bad news for Indy (tho superficially good). See various articles in the Staggers, passim.

    There are two possible outcome for Brexit

    1. We get Single Market with More limited free movement (May is proposing people can only come here and work if they have a job offer - a position 80% of the country would eagerly accept)

    2. We leave the Single Market and have who-knows-what free movement

    Under outcome 1 there is no real reason for Scots to go back into the EU, and quit the UK. The currency option isn't sorted, it's yet another huge divisive, constitutional wrench, Scotland would go back under the ECJ, Fisheries would return to Europe, Spain would make it all painful, why bother? Scotland would still be enjoying most of the benefit of the EU inside the UK

    Under outcome 2, Scotland would have to leave the single market WITHIN the UK, much more harmful to Scottish industry, indeed calamitous. it also means a border, still no currency solution, possible tariffs with England

    As I've said before, Brexit makes Sindy more desirable, yet more difficult, at the same time, Paradoxical, but there you are.

    And now WORK. And I MEAN IT
    But the Nats have a convincing argument for the heart - don't let the English drag us out against our will etc. Economic forecast of doom will be dismissed because experts don't sway opinion now. Most importantly, there will be much less inherent opposition. Labour will be nowhere near as fired up against it, may even support it. Lib Dems may go for it, and as for the Tories - Ruth will rather unfairly be taking the blame for the Leave vote in Scotland, credibility will be way down. A simple counter argument to any lingering unionist sentiment in Scotland is simply that the English were warned it could wreck the union and voted leave anyway, so clearly don't care about Scotland that much. Hard for Ruth to argue against that. The press in Scotland already seems more favourable as well.

    The economics may be iffy but on all other fronts the case for indy is strengthened now.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069

    Scott_P said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I see the FSTE 250 is up 5.76% to 16198.

    @ByRobDavies: Leave triumphalism over FTSE rise is misplaced. Markets are anticipating free cash from BoE stimulus designed to ease slowdown.

    The value of my investment bond is fluttering about like a pair of lacy panties in a breeze.
    investment bond????

    not very tax efficient normally unless 'special' circumstances...
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    No rush for the PLP, the Tories are deep in a leadership crisis. Just keep the pressure on Jez, hold on. Push push push.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Awesome, I support this idea

    Stephen Bush

    Civil servant suggests compromise that most could agree on: Article 50 not to be activated until Turkey given access to single market.


    Doesn't Turkey already have access to the single market - but not free movement?
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Pauly said:

    That is disgracefully divisive. As bad as turning away gay people from a cake shop - political persecution.

    Even worse, whoever wrote it doesn't know the plural of persona non grata.
    Even worse it's bad for business. Would any Leaver enter the premises? Stupid.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    eek said:

    John_M said:

    Scott_P said:

    @kiranstacey: "We were wrong. It will be even worse than we said." https://t.co/w2TXlFbzuU

    Remember what Andrea Leadsom said?

    Mark Carney’s warning that Britain faces a recession if it leaves the EU is “nonsense” and a “totally unjustifiable” intervention, a Government minister has said.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/15/bank-of-england-governors-brexit-warning-is-nonsense-says-minise/
    A material slowing in growth != recession.

    I think he's been too upbeat and Leadsom was wrong. I'm still taking the IMF final report as most likely outcome for 2017. -0.8%.
    I think this bit is more important

    https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/748537377962995713

    Yep... All a central bank can really do is print money (or quantitatively ease) or change interest rates... After 8 years of doing the former having sent rates as low as plausible, you're right there isn't much left that you can do....

    So that's taxes up, more cuts, less business investment, reduced demand. Just as predicted. But Chancellor Gove or Leadsom has promised that we will have one of this. In fact, taxes will go down and spending will go up - including £350 million a week more for the NHS.

    If Corbyn goes the Tories are in deep trouble.

    May didn't say anything about anything. I think she's a shoo-in.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896

    Scott_P said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I see the FSTE 250 is up 5.76% to 16198.

    @ByRobDavies: Leave triumphalism over FTSE rise is misplaced. Markets are anticipating free cash from BoE stimulus designed to ease slowdown.

    The value of my investment bond is fluttering about like a pair of lacy panties in a breeze.
    investment bond????

    not very tax efficient normally unless 'special' circumstances...
    OK for a pensioner, my IFA advises. And for the last few years it’s done very well for us. But thanks very much for the thought.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,450
    edited June 2016
    chestnut said:

    Carney has been a terrible Governor of the BoE.

    I've been saying for days we need a new govenor and chancellor. With this pair we're in a self-fulfilling downwards spiral of despair...

    And I'm not sure that little Miss Sunshine Mrs May is going to do much to lighten the mood if she becomes PM...
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Awesome, I support this idea

    Stephen Bush

    Civil servant suggests compromise that most could agree on: Article 50 not to be activated until Turkey given access to single market.


    Doesn't Turkey already have access to the single market - but not free movement?
    Everybody has access to the single market. Just not necessarily tariff-free access.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Carney challenged over Mervyn's comments re his scaremongering.

    Umm, errr, I haven't seen ummm them, errr, umm blah blah umm err.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    eek said:

    John_M said:

    Scott_P said:

    @kiranstacey: "We were wrong. It will be even worse than we said." https://t.co/w2TXlFbzuU

    Remember what Andrea Leadsom said?

    Mark Carney’s warning that Britain faces a recession if it leaves the EU is “nonsense” and a “totally unjustifiable” intervention, a Government minister has said.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/15/bank-of-england-governors-brexit-warning-is-nonsense-says-minise/
    A material slowing in growth != recession.

    I think he's been too upbeat and Leadsom was wrong. I'm still taking the IMF final report as most likely outcome for 2017. -0.8%.
    I think this bit is more important

    https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/748537377962995713

    Yep... All a central bank can really do is print money (or quantitatively ease) or change interest rates... After 8 years of doing the former having sent rates as low as plausible, you're right there isn't much left that you can do....

    So that's taxes up, more cuts, less business investment, reduced demand. Just as predicted. But Chancellor Gove or Leadsom has promised that we will have one of this. In fact, taxes will go down and spending will go up - including £350 million a week more for the NHS.

    If Corbyn goes the Tories are in deep trouble.

    Wrong. Corbyn's head and shoulders above his detractors within Labour. Get rid of him at your extreme peril.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    DanSmith said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eagle may delay leader bid 'to give Corbyn time to quit': Former shadow minister Angela Eagle looks set to la...

    LOL

    Knows she'll get thrashed. Maybe I'll ask Anthony Joshua to give up his Heavyweight title belt so I can win a match against him too.

    Owen Smith looks more likely now, maybe even Clive Lewis.
    Clive Lewis has charisma in spades, and just looks like he could be a winner, especially with a back story fighting in Afghanistan. If the next leader is a lefty, as is likely judging by the membership, at least let it be one who looks like he could win.

    I think Lewis from the Left is a good candidate and I have no idea why the bunker hasn't struck a deal with the PLP by now whereby they would guarantee him enough nominations if Corbyn stood down.

    That, to me, is the best compromise to break the deadlock.
    Yup, why is this hard?
    If you were in Corbyn's shoes, would you trust the PLP to nominate your candidate?

    Once he stands down, all bets are off.
    That is 100% correct.

    Have been saying it since Sunday.

    The PLP takes the members and Jezza for fools
    QUESTION

    Should a leader of a political party remain as leader when he has lost 80% of his own MPs?

    Yes or no.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    DanSmith said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eagle may delay leader bid 'to give Corbyn time to quit': Former shadow minister Angela Eagle looks set to la...

    LOL

    Knows she'll get thrashed. Maybe I'll ask Anthony Joshua to give up his Heavyweight title belt so I can win a match against him too.

    Owen Smith looks more likely now, maybe even Clive Lewis.
    Clive Lewis has charisma in spades, and just looks like he could be a winner, especially with a back story fighting in Afghanistan. If the next leader is a lefty, as is likely judging by the membership, at least let it be one who looks like he could win.

    I think Lewis from the Left is a good candidate and I have no idea why the bunker hasn't struck a deal with the PLP by now whereby they would guarantee him enough nominations if Corbyn stood down.

    That, to me, is the best compromise to break the deadlock.
    Yup, why is this hard?
    If you were in Corbyn's shoes, would you trust the PLP to nominate your candidate?

    Once he stands down, all bets are off.
    Given that the left have the members and the NEC and the right have the MPs it shouldn't be beyond them to cut a deal and make it practically enforceable.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768
    Jobabob said:

    PeterC said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    DanSmith said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eagle may delay leader bid 'to give Corbyn time to quit': Former shadow minister Angela Eagle looks set to la...

    LOL

    Knows she'll get thrashed. Maybe I'll ask Anthony Joshua to give up his Heavyweight title belt so I can win a match against him too.

    Owen Smith looks more likely now, maybe even Clive Lewis.
    Clive Lewis has charisma in spades, and just looks like he could be a winner, especially with a back story fighting in Afghanistan. If the next leader is a lefty, as is likely judging by the membership, at least let it be one who looks like he could win.

    I think Lewis from the Left is a good candidate and I have no idea why the bunker hasn't struck a deal with the PLP by now whereby they would guarantee him enough nominations if Corbyn stood down.

    That, to me, is the best compromise to break the deadlock.
    Yup, why is this hard?
    If you were in Corbyn's shoes, would you trust the PLP to nominate your candidate?

    Once he stands down, all bets are off.
    That is 100% correct.

    Have been saying it since Sunday.

    The PLP takes the members and Jezza for fools
    What is the PLP's next move if Jeremy is reelected?
    The PLP need to just keep the pressure on him so he resigns, hence not on the ballot. The bunker should accept a deal.
    Scared of a democratic election
    PeterC said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    DanSmith said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eagle may delay leader bid 'to give Corbyn time to quit': Former shadow minister Angela Eagle looks set to la...

    LOL

    Knows she'll get thrashed. Maybe I'll ask Anthony Joshua to give up his Heavyweight title belt so I can win a match against him too.

    Owen Smith looks more likely now, maybe even Clive Lewis.

    That, to me, is the best compromise to break the deadlock.
    Yup, why is this hard?
    That is 100% correct.

    Have been saying it since Sunday.

    The PLP takes the members and Jezza for fools
    What is the PLP's next move if Jeremy is reelected?
    SDP2 one presumes.

    But since they cant organize a piss up in a brewery who knows
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    eek said:

    John_M said:

    Scott_P said:

    @kiranstacey: "We were wrong. It will be even worse than we said." https://t.co/w2TXlFbzuU

    Remember what Andrea Leadsom said?

    Mark Carney’s warning that Britain faces a recession if it leaves the EU is “nonsense” and a “totally unjustifiable” intervention, a Government minister has said.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/15/bank-of-england-governors-brexit-warning-is-nonsense-says-minise/
    A material slowing in growth != recession.

    I think he's been too upbeat and Leadsom was wrong. I'm still taking the IMF final report as most likely outcome for 2017. -0.8%.
    I think this bit is more important

    https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/748537377962995713

    Yep... All a central bank can really do is print money (or quantitatively ease) or change interest rates... After 8 years of doing the former having sent rates as low as plausible, you're right there isn't much left that you can do....

    So that's taxes up, more cuts, less business investment, reduced demand. Just as predicted. But Chancellor Gove or Leadsom has promised that we will have one of this. In fact, taxes will go down and spending will go up - including £350 million a week more for the NHS.

    If Corbyn goes the Tories are in deep trouble.

    Indeed - and let's remember just because it's not called an emergency budget doesn't mean it won't hurt. Moot anyway as Leavers will never ever acknowledge that anything negative can result from this madness.
  • paulyorkpaulyork Posts: 50
    while i'm sure many Conservative MPs and members are happy Gove stabbed Boris, I'm not convinced they'd want that sort of behaviour from a leader. leaders get others to do their dirty work.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    DanSmith said:

    Am pretty sure there won't be a leadership election. MPs will sit it out for as long as possible, and if Corbyn really won't quit, they'll break away. What's the point of a 3 month election followed by Corbyn winning and the party splitting, may as well do it now.


    Exactly right. No point taking the pressure off him.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    PlatoSaid said:

    chestnut said:

    Carney has been a terrible Governor of the BoE.

    He played politics during the campaign - that's just not on. His 3 page letter rant was a big doth-protest-too-much red flag.
    From 2013:

    Bank of England governor Mark Carney has said the Bank will not consider raising interest rates until the jobless rate has fallen to 7% or below.Mr Carney said he expected this would require the creation of about 750,000 jobs and could take three years.

    The rate is about 5% now and two million jobs have been created, yet interest rates haven't moved.

    Meanwhile, house prices are going stratospheric and he wants to further cut interest rates.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    PlatoSaid said:

    chestnut said:

    Carney has been a terrible Governor of the BoE.

    He played politics during the campaign - that's just not on. His 3 page letter rant was a big doth-protest-too-much red flag.
    He should be sacked at once - next big question who does Plato support? This afternoon, evening, tomorrow???? We deserve to be told.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768
    Jobabob said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    DanSmith said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eagle may delay leader bid 'to give Corbyn time to quit': Former shadow minister Angela Eagle looks set to la...

    LOL

    Knows she'll get thrashed. Maybe I'll ask Anthony Joshua to give up his Heavyweight title belt so I can win a match against him too.

    Owen Smith looks more likely now, maybe even Clive Lewis.
    Clive Lewis has charisma in spades, and just looks like he could be a winner, especially with a back story fighting in Afghanistan. If the next leader is a lefty, as is likely judging by the membership, at least let it be one who looks like he could win.

    I think Lewis from the Left is a good candidate and I have no idea why the bunker hasn't struck a deal with the PLP by now whereby they would guarantee him enough nominations if Corbyn stood down.

    That, to me, is the best compromise to break the deadlock.
    Yup, why is this hard?
    If you were in Corbyn's shoes, would you trust the PLP to nominate your candidate?

    Once he stands down, all bets are off.
    That is 100% correct.

    Have been saying it since Sunday.

    The PLP takes the members and Jezza for fools
    QUESTION

    Should a leader of a political party remain as leader when he has lost 80% of his own MPs?

    Yes or no.
    Yes
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    felix said:

    eek said:

    John_M said:

    Scott_P said:

    @kiranstacey: "We were wrong. It will be even worse than we said." https://t.co/w2TXlFbzuU

    Remember what Andrea Leadsom said?

    Mark Carney’s warning that Britain faces a recession if it leaves the EU is “nonsense” and a “totally unjustifiable” intervention, a Government minister has said.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/15/bank-of-england-governors-brexit-warning-is-nonsense-says-minise/
    A material slowing in growth != recession.

    I think he's been too upbeat and Leadsom was wrong. I'm still taking the IMF final report as most likely outcome for 2017. -0.8%.
    I think this bit is more important

    https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/748537377962995713

    Yep... All a central bank can really do is print money (or quantitatively ease) or change interest rates... After 8 years of doing the former having sent rates as low as plausible, you're right there isn't much left that you can do....

    So that's taxes up, more cuts, less business investment, reduced demand. Just as predicted. But Chancellor Gove or Leadsom has promised that we will have one of this. In fact, taxes will go down and spending will go up - including £350 million a week more for the NHS.

    If Corbyn goes the Tories are in deep trouble.

    Indeed - and let's remember just because it's not called an emergency budget doesn't mean it won't hurt. Moot anyway as Leavers will never ever acknowledge that anything negative can result from this madness.
    Oh come off it. Plenty of people on here have said, repeatedly, that there is going to be an economic shock. You can't conceivably have missed it, unless your reading comprehension skills are utterly shot.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    Scott_P said:
    Wot, no Kate Hoey? No Gisela Stuart?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,784
    PlatoSaid said:

    Carney challenged over Mervyn's comments re his scaremongering.

    Umm, errr, I haven't seen ummm them, errr, umm blah blah umm err.

    I agree that it is just horrid for Carney to be saying things that Tory Leave supporters do not want to hear. I blame the BBC.

  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Jobabob said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    DanSmith said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eagle may delay leader bid 'to give Corbyn time to quit': Former shadow minister Angela Eagle looks set to la...

    LOL

    Knows she'll get thrashed. Maybe I'll ask Anthony Joshua to give up his Heavyweight title belt so I can win a match against him too.

    Owen Smith looks more likely now, maybe even Clive Lewis.
    Clive Lewis has charisma in spades, and just looks like he could be a winner, especially with a back story fighting in Afghanistan. If the next leader is a lefty, as is likely judging by the membership, at least let it be one who looks like he could win.

    I think Lewis from the Left is a good candidate and I have no idea why the bunker hasn't struck a deal with the PLP by now whereby they would guarantee him enough nominations if Corbyn stood down.

    That, to me, is the best compromise to break the deadlock.
    Yup, why is this hard?
    If you were in Corbyn's shoes, would you trust the PLP to nominate your candidate?

    Once he stands down, all bets are off.
    That is 100% correct.

    Have been saying it since Sunday.

    The PLP takes the members and Jezza for fools
    QUESTION

    Should a leader of a political party remain as leader when he has lost 80% of his own MPs?

    Yes or no.
    Yes
    Well that's just overriding all parliamentary and constitutional precedent. Makes an absolute mockery of our parliamentary democracy. An insight into the far left's mind.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768
    QUESTION

    Should a leader of a political party remain as leader when he has lost 80% of his own MPs?

    Yes or no.
    Yes

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,262
    Utterly cretinous and dangerous.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    PlatoSaid said:

    Carney challenged over Mervyn's comments re his scaremongering.

    Umm, errr, I haven't seen ummm them, errr, umm blah blah umm err.

    Risks aren't certainties he said.

    Thanks Mark.
  • Jobabob said:

    No rush for the PLP, the Tories are deep in a leadership crisis. Just keep the pressure on Jez, hold on. Push push push.

    The Tories are not in a leadership crisis at all. A PM screwed up and resigned - candidates have come forward to replace him. Yes, the usual ruthlessness comes along and the assassin failed once again to win the throne. But there is no 'crisis'. It's all very orderly. I tend to interpret 'leadership crisis' as meaning there are huge plots afoot to unseat a sitting party leader. That's the other lot!
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    My sentiments exactly.
    Otto English ‏@Otto_English 4h4 hours ago
    Boris Johnson screws the country and then walks away. His public life no different to his private.
    #BorisJohnson
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,784
    Jobabob said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    DanSmith said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eagle may delay leader bid 'to give Corbyn time to quit': Former shadow minister Angela Eagle looks set to la...

    LOL

    Knows she'll get thrashed. Maybe I'll ask Anthony Joshua to give up his Heavyweight title belt so I can win a match against him too.

    Owen Smith looks more likely now, maybe even Clive Lewis.
    Clive Lewis has charisma in spades, and just looks like he could be a winner, especially with a back story fighting in Afghanistan. If the next leader is a lefty, as is likely judging by the membership, at least let it be one who looks like he could win.

    I think Lewis from the Left is a good candidate and I have no idea why the bunker hasn't struck a deal with the PLP by now whereby they would guarantee him enough nominations if Corbyn stood down.

    That, to me, is the best compromise to break the deadlock.
    Yup, why is this hard?
    If you were in Corbyn's shoes, would you trust the PLP to nominate your candidate?

    Once he stands down, all bets are off.
    That is 100% correct.

    Have been saying it since Sunday.

    The PLP takes the members and Jezza for fools
    QUESTION

    Should a leader of a political party remain as leader when he has lost 80% of his own MPs?

    Yes or no.

    Those supporting Corbyn after his behaviour today are living in a world far from reality.

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Well that's pretty obvious. The question is whether some restrictions on freedom of movement are compatible with unfettered access to the single market, given the movement of the ECJ since Maastricht and reliance on A20.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Patrick said:

    Jobabob said:

    No rush for the PLP, the Tories are deep in a leadership crisis. Just keep the pressure on Jez, hold on. Push push push.

    The Tories are not in a leadership crisis at all. A PM screwed up and resigned - candidates have come forward to replace him. Yes, the usual ruthlessness comes along and the assassin failed once again to win the throne. But there is no 'crisis'. It's all very orderly. I tend to interpret 'leadership crisis' as meaning there are huge plots afoot to unseat a sitting party leader. That's the other lot!
    Okay fair point – apologies – but in any event they are distracted by their leadership election.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768
    Should 172 MPs be able to subvert the will of the 500,000 party members

    Yes or No

    No
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    DanSmith said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eagle may delay leader bid 'to give Corbyn time to quit': Former shadow minister Angela Eagle looks set to la...

    LOL

    Knows she'll get thrashed. Maybe I'll ask Anthony Joshua to give up his Heavyweight title belt so I can win a match against him too.

    Owen Smith looks more likely now, maybe even Clive Lewis.
    Clive Lewis has charisma in spades, and just looks like he could be a winner, especially with a back story fighting in Afghanistan. If the next leader is a lefty, as is likely judging by the membership, at least let it be one who looks like he could win.

    I think Lewis from the Left is a good candidate and I have no idea why the bunker hasn't struck a deal with the PLP by now whereby they would guarantee him enough nominations if Corbyn stood down.

    That, to me, is the best compromise to break the deadlock.
    Yup, why is this hard?
    If you were in Corbyn's shoes, would you trust the PLP to nominate your candidate?

    Once he stands down, all bets are off.
    Given that the left have the members and the NEC and the right have the MPs it shouldn't be beyond them to cut a deal and make it practically enforceable.
    Yes, but that requires trust & I think that's gone.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Jobabob said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    DanSmith said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eagle may delay leader bid 'to give Corbyn time to quit': Former shadow minister Angela Eagle looks set to la...

    LOL

    Knows she'll get thrashed. Maybe I'll ask Anthony Joshua to give up his Heavyweight title belt so I can win a match against him too.

    Owen Smith looks more likely now, maybe even Clive Lewis.
    Clive Lewis has charisma in spades, and just looks like he could be a winner, especially with a back story fighting in Afghanistan. If the next leader is a lefty, as is likely judging by the membership, at least let it be one who looks like he could win.

    I think Lewis from the Left is a good candidate and I have no idea why the bunker hasn't struck a deal with the PLP by now whereby they would guarantee him enough nominations if Corbyn stood down.

    That, to me, is the best compromise to break the deadlock.
    Yup, why is this hard?
    If you were in Corbyn's shoes, would you trust the PLP to nominate your candidate?

    Once he stands down, all bets are off.
    That is 100% correct.

    Have been saying it since Sunday.

    The PLP takes the members and Jezza for fools
    QUESTION

    Should a leader of a political party remain as leader when he has lost 80% of his own MPs?

    Yes or no.
    It's badge of honour to get up the noses of the PLP hacks. It makes JC more credible.
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,275
    Jobabob said:

    PeterC said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    DanSmith said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eagle may delay leader bid 'to give Corbyn time to quit': Former shadow minister Angela Eagle looks set to la...

    LOL

    Knows she'll get thrashed. Maybe I'll ask Anthony Joshua to give up his Heavyweight title belt so I can win a match against him too.

    Owen Smith looks more likely now, maybe even Clive Lewis.
    Clive Lewis has charisma in spades, and just looks like he could be a winner, especially with a back story fighting in Afghanistan. If the next leader is a lefty, as is likely judging by the membership, at least let it be one who looks like he could win.

    I think Lewis from the Left is a good candidate and I have no idea why the bunker hasn't struck a deal with the PLP by now whereby they would guarantee him enough nominations if Corbyn stood down.

    That, to me, is the best compromise to break the deadlock.
    Yup, why is this hard?
    If you were in Corbyn's shoes, would you trust the PLP to nominate your candidate?

    Once he stands down, all bets are off.
    That is 100% correct.

    Have been saying it since Sunday.

    The PLP takes the members and Jezza for fools
    What is the PLP's next move if Jeremy is reelected?
    The PLP need to just keep the pressure on him so he resigns, hence not on the ballot. The bunker should accept a deal.
    What if they don't?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Should 172 MPs be able to subvert the will of the 500,000 party members

    Yes or No

    No

    What support do you think Corbyn has among the members?
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    They've been saying this for ages. Schauble was very clear on the 10th June. Out is Out. In is In.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    John_M said:

    felix said:

    eek said:

    John_M said:

    Scott_P said:

    @kiranstacey: "We were wrong. It will be even worse than we said." https://t.co/w2TXlFbzuU

    Remember what Andrea Leadsom said?

    Mark Carney’s warning that Britain faces a recession if it leaves the EU is “nonsense” and a “totally unjustifiable” intervention, a Government minister has said.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/15/bank-of-england-governors-brexit-warning-is-nonsense-says-minise/
    A material slowing in growth != recession.

    I think he's been too upbeat and Leadsom was wrong. I'm still taking the IMF final report as most likely outcome for 2017. -0.8%.
    I think this bit is more important

    https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/748537377962995713

    Yep... All a central bank can really do is print money (or quantitatively ease) or change interest rates... After 8 years of doing the former having sent rates as low as plausible, you're right there isn't much left that you can do....

    So that's taxes up, more cuts, less business investment, reduced demand. Just as predicted. But Chancellor Gove or Leadsom has promised that we will have one of this. In fact, taxes will go down and spending will go up - including £350 million a week more for the NHS.

    If Corbyn goes the Tories are in deep trouble.

    Indeed - and let's remember just because it's not called an emergency budget doesn't mean it won't hurt. Moot anyway as Leavers will never ever acknowledge that anything negative can result from this madness.
    Oh come off it. Plenty of people on here have said, repeatedly, that there is going to be an economic shock. You can't conceivably have missed it, unless your reading comprehension skills are utterly shot.
    And yet they pipe up every 5 minutes to deny the visible signs of it occurring in front of their eyes. Sack Carney! Sack Osborne? Sack Boris? - tomorrow Sack Mrs Gove. Then they get even tetchier and just plain rude.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,450
    edited June 2016
    AndyJS said:

    "Even those of us who write about how ruthless the Tory party is are standing, staring, open-mouthed at what has just happened. At 9am this morning, Boris Johnson was pretty sure that he was going to become Prime Minister, or at least make the final two in the leadership contest and be in with a 50-50 chance. Then, at 9.02am an email landed that signalled he was done for, ruined. Johnson and his team had no warning – no call, no text – from Michael Gove that he was about to declare Boris unfit to be Prime Minister and run himself. The explosive email went to reporters direct. Inside Team Boris there was astonishment, although some had suspected something was wrong earlier in the week."

    http://reaction.life/boris-done-cuckoo-nest-plot/


    ***Master Strategist Alert***

    There were other leaks that spooked Team Boris and Sir Lynton Crosby, the kingpin strategist who had turned up to run the Boris campaign. Crosby, say friends, has a low opinion of the Chancellor. He once told friends that Obsorne “could not strategise his way out of a paper bag.”


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855

    Scott_P said:
    Talking down the economy again. It's time Carney left.
    If that's his assessment that's his assessment - I remain confused by this 'talking down' criticism. If he's wrong, say he should leave for that, 'talking down' implies he somehow wants us not to do well
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,132

    Those supporting Corbyn after his behaviour today are living in a world far from reality.

    This. And still they screech his name like he is The Messiah. Whilst swearing profusely at bitterites who worship Blair.
  • LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590

    My sentiments exactly.
    Otto English ‏@Otto_English 4h4 hours ago
    Boris Johnson screws the country and then walks away. His public life no different to his private.
    #BorisJohnson

    I don't agree. Although not a fan, I think he is the victim of some very brutal and dirty politics. His wife was in the front row and looked visibly upset.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769

    Those supporting Corbyn after his behaviour today are living in a world far from reality.

    This. And still they screech his name like he is The Messiah. Whilst swearing profusely at bitterites who worship Blair.
    I tuned out of politics after Boris, what has Jezza done today (shudders)?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,993

    AndyJS said:
    I'd forgotten her father was in the clergy. Yet another similarity with Merkel.
    I actually know very little about May's background, her life or her marriage, especially when compared to other prominent politicians. Why is that? Have I just not noticed, is her life outside politics not noteworthy, and/or does she simply not mention it much?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    felix said:

    He should be sacked at once - next big question who does Plato support? This afternoon, evening, tomorrow???? We deserve to be told.

    Charlie Falconer
  • JennyFreemanJennyFreeman Posts: 488
    Patrick said:

    Jobabob said:

    No rush for the PLP, the Tories are deep in a leadership crisis. Just keep the pressure on Jez, hold on. Push push push.

    The Tories are not in a leadership crisis at all. A PM screwed up and resigned - candidates have come forward to replace him. Yes, the usual ruthlessness comes along and the assassin failed once again to win the throne. But there is no 'crisis'. It's all very orderly. I tend to interpret 'leadership crisis' as meaning there are huge plots afoot to unseat a sitting party leader. That's the other lot!
    Completely agree
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,784
    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    eek said:

    John_M said:

    Scott_P said:

    @kiranstacey: "We were wrong. It will be even worse than we said." https://t.co/w2TXlFbzuU

    Remember what Andrea Leadsom said?

    Mark Carney’s warning that Britain faces a recession if it leaves the EU is “nonsense” and a “totally unjustifiable” intervention, a Government minister has said.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/15/bank-of-england-governors-brexit-warning-is-nonsense-says-minise/
    A material slowing in growth != recession.

    I think he's been too upbeat and Leadsom was wrong. I'm still taking the IMF final report as most likely outcome for 2017. -0.8%.
    I think this bit is more important

    https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/748537377962995713

    Yep... All a central bank can really do is print money (or quantitatively ease) or change interest rates... After 8 years of doing the former having sent rates as low as plausible, you're right there isn't much left that you can do....

    So that's taxes up, more cuts, less business investment, reduced demand. Just as predicted. But Chancellor Gove or Leadsom has promised that we will have one of this. In fact, taxes will go down and spending will go up - including £350 million a week more for the NHS.

    If Corbyn goes the Tories are in deep trouble.

    Indeed - and let's remember just because it's not called an emergency budget doesn't mean it won't hurt. Moot anyway as Leavers will never ever acknowledge that anything negative can result from this madness.
    The pain is going to be acute. Let's face it. But this is another reason it won't be Gove or Leadsom, just as it wasn't going to be Boris. A LEAVER will own this pain

    It's May. In so many many ways, it's May. Also she wants the clearly superior solution: EEA

    One of them will be Chancellor in all probability. Should be fun.

  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    People are saying Boris walked away. He lost all support among MPs, he's no Corbyn, had no choice but to quit.
  • LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    Kezia Dugdale is having her most effective and successful week in politics.

    So what do SLab do?

    https://twitter.com/HumzaYousaf/status/748540249555476481
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    And with the economy booming, the Brexiteers can also pretend this isn't happening

    @krishgm: More than 300 hate crime incidents compared to a weekly average of 63 new figures from the National Police Chiefs' Council show
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited June 2016
    felix said:

    John_M said:

    felix said:

    eek said:

    John_M said:

    Scott_P said:

    @kiranstacey: "We were wrong. It will be even worse than we said." https://t.co/w2TXlFbzuU

    Remember what Andrea Leadsom said?

    Mark Carney’s warning that Britain faces a recession if it leaves the EU is “nonsense” and a “totally unjustifiable” intervention, a Government minister has said.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/15/bank-of-england-governors-brexit-warning-is-nonsense-says-minise/
    A material slowing in growth != recession.

    I think he's been too upbeat and Leadsom was wrong. I'm still taking the IMF final report as most likely outcome for 2017. -0.8%.
    I think this bit is more important

    https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/748537377962995713

    Yep... All a central bank can really do is print money (or quantitatively ease) or change interest rates... After 8 years of doing the former having sent rates as low as plausible, you're right there isn't much left that you can do....

    So that's taxes up, more cuts, less business investment, reduced demand. Just as predicted. But Chancellor Gove or Leadsom has promised that we will have one of this. In fact, taxes will go down and spending will go up - including £350 million a week more for the NHS.

    If Corbyn goes the Tories are in deep trouble.

    Indeed - and let's remember just because it's not called an emergency budget doesn't mean it won't hurt. Moot anyway as Leavers will never ever acknowledge that anything negative can result from this madness.
    Oh come off it. Plenty of people on here have said, repeatedly, that there is going to be an economic shock. You can't conceivably have missed it, unless your reading comprehension skills are utterly shot.
    And yet they pipe up every 5 minutes to deny the visible signs of it occurring in front of their eyes. Sack Carney! Sack Osborne? Sack Boris? - tomorrow Sack Mrs Gove. Then they get even tetchier and just plain rude.
    I'm happy with Carney's comments. He's right; there's not much left in the tank for a central bank to use.

    rcs1000 & I both worried about the timing of the referendum, given the economy (the BoP figures for Q1 issued this morning were a slight improvement on Q4, albeit still bad) but what can you do? Cameron called it now, not in 2017.

    There are huge systemic risks no matter what we do. I completely agree that in the short term Brexit is riskier than Bremain.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @bbclaurak: I've been speaking to Michael Gove about his decision to challenge Boris - interview in a couple of minutes on @bbcnews
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,740
    If every time growth slows we do more QE then the amount of QE will just keep going up and up - and it will never be reversed.

    Surely some reversal of QE should have happened by now - it started in 2009.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    DanSmith said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eagle may delay leader bid 'to give Corbyn time to quit': Former shadow minister Angela Eagle looks set to la...

    LOL

    Knows she'll get thrashed. Maybe I'll ask Anthony Joshua to give up his Heavyweight title belt so I can win a match against him too.

    Owen Smith looks more likely now, maybe even Clive Lewis.
    Clive Lewis has charisma in spades, and just looks like he could be a winner, especially with a back story fighting in Afghanistan. If the next leader is a lefty, as is likely judging by the membership, at least let it be one who looks like he could win.

    I think Lewis from the Left is a good candidate and I have no idea why the bunker hasn't struck a deal with the PLP by now whereby they would guarantee him enough nominations if Corbyn stood down.

    That, to me, is the best compromise to break the deadlock.
    Yup, why is this hard?
    If you were in Corbyn's shoes, would you trust the PLP to nominate your candidate?

    Once he stands down, all bets are off.
    Given that the left have the members and the NEC and the right have the MPs it shouldn't be beyond them to cut a deal and make it practically enforceable.
    Yes, but that requires trust & I think that's gone.
    I can solve this for them with about 50 lines of code but I'll need the NEC to pass a rule saying the election will be conducted according to the steps laid out in an Ethereum contract.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Should 172 MPs be able to subvert the will of the 500,000 party members

    Yes or No

    No

    I think Legal and moral stand points throw up both answers. What does the rule book say?
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    Scott_P said:

    And with the economy booming, the Brexiteers can also pretend this isn't happening

    @krishgm: More than 300 hate crime incidents compared to a weekly average of 63 new figures from the National Police Chiefs' Council show

    As a Conservative I believe in Individual Responsibility. Those criminals are responsible alone for their own actions and to try to smear the leave campaign is to try to abdicate those truly responsible for their abhorrent actions.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Even those of us who write about how ruthless the Tory party is are standing, staring, open-mouthed at what has just happened. At 9am this morning, Boris Johnson was pretty sure that he was going to become Prime Minister, or at least make the final two in the leadership contest and be in with a 50-50 chance. Then, at 9.02am an email landed that signalled he was done for, ruined. Johnson and his team had no warning – no call, no text – from Michael Gove that he was about to declare Boris unfit to be Prime Minister and run himself. The explosive email went to reporters direct. Inside Team Boris there was astonishment, although some had suspected something was wrong earlier in the week."

    http://reaction.life/boris-done-cuckoo-nest-plot/


    ***Master Strategist Alert***

    There were other leaks that spooked Team Boris and Sir Lynton Crosby, the kingpin strategist who had turned up to run the Boris campaign. Crosby, say friends, has a low opinion of the Chancellor. He once told friends that Obsorne “could not strategise his way out of a paper bag.”


    Wow. Being a Conservative contender really is a full contact sport.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,418
    Sorry Jake, but that pit is occupied by Mark Reckless
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Should 172 MPs be able to subvert the will of the 500,000 party members

    Yes or No

    No

    Should 500,000? party members subvert the hopes of 9 million Labour voters?

    Yes or No
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Utterly cretinous and dangerous.
    False flag operation I imagine.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Iain Dale interviewing Andrea Leadsom on LBC at 5.05pm.

    twitter.com/IainDale/status/748536744459505666

    http://www.lbc.co.uk
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896
    JackW said:

    felix said:

    He should be sacked at once - next big question who does Plato support? This afternoon, evening, tomorrow???? We deserve to be told.

    Charlie Falconer
    Thought he’d resigned?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scott_P said:

    And with the economy booming, the Brexiteers can also pretend this isn't happening

    @krishgm: More than 300 hate crime incidents compared to a weekly average of 63 new figures from the National Police Chiefs' Council show

    So many false flags
  • LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    I must admit I would love to see Theresa May eyeballing Angela Merkel across the negotiating table.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768
    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    DanSmith said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eagle may delay leader bid 'to give Corbyn time to quit': Former shadow minister Angela Eagle looks set to la...

    LOL

    Knows she'll get thrashed. Maybe I'll ask Anthony Joshua to give up his Heavyweight title belt so I can win a match against him too.

    Owen Smith looks more likely now, maybe even Clive Lewis.
    Clive Lewis has charisma in spades, and just looks like he could be a winner, especially with a back story fighting in Afghanistan. If the next leader is a lefty, as is likely judging by the membership, at least let it be one who looks like he could win.

    I think Lewis from the Left is a good candidate and I have no idea why the bunker hasn't struck a deal with the PLP by now whereby they would guarantee him enough nominations if Corbyn stood down.

    That, to me, is the best compromise to break the deadlock.
    Yup, why is this hard?
    If you were in Corbyn's shoes, would you trust the PLP to nominate your candidate?

    Once he stands down, all bets are off.
    That is 100% correct.

    Have been saying it since Sunday.

    The PLP takes the members and Jezza for fools
    QUESTION

    Should a leader of a political party remain as leader when he has lost 80% of his own MPs?

    Yes or no.
    Yes
    Well that's just overriding all parliamentary and constitutional precedent. Makes an absolute mockery of our parliamentary democracy. An insight into the far left's mind.
    Sorry but you believe 172 people get to decide who is leader.

    That is not the system any sensible Democratic Socialist party should accept.

    That fortunately is not the system Labour has.

    The PLP is to the far right of our great partys tent and will not prevail in this matter. As the members occupy the centre ground
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited June 2016
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Talking down the economy again. It's time Carney left.
    If that's his assessment that's his assessment - I remain confused by this 'talking down' criticism. If he's wrong, say he should leave for that, 'talking down' implies he somehow wants us not to do well
    Carney , an Irish-Canadian, has no deep attachment to the UK beyond his enormous salary. I suspect spite has been clouding his prenounements since his humiliation and I would prefer him removed from influence.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662
    Not happy are they ?

    And why the Hell should they be.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768
    edited June 2016
    @jobabob Well that's just overriding all parliamentary and constitutional precedent. Makes an absolute mockery of our parliamentary democracy. An insight into the far left's mind.



    Sorry but you believe 172 people get to decide who is leader.

    That is not the system any sensible Democratic Socialist party should accept.

    That fortunately is not the system Labour has.

    The PLP is to the far right of our great partys tent and will not prevail in this matter. As the members occupy the centre ground
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855

    Should 172 MPs be able to subvert the will of the 500,000 party members

    Yes or No

    No

    Yes. We elect representatives to take decisions on our behalf, not to commit us to a course of action from what might have been years ago, when the situation may have changed dramatically, particualrly when the win of those members cannot be assumed to be the same now as it was then (though it could be so).
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited June 2016
    Pauly said:

    Scott_P said:

    And with the economy booming, the Brexiteers can also pretend this isn't happening

    @krishgm: More than 300 hate crime incidents compared to a weekly average of 63 new figures from the National Police Chiefs' Council show

    As a Conservative I believe in Individual Responsibility. Those criminals are responsible alone for their own actions and to try to smear the leave campaign is to try to abdicate those truly responsible for their abhorrent actions.
    Don't be ridiculous. Where were you during the referendum campaign?

    The Leave campaign was very xenophobic - it was designed to appeal to people's inner guts and they flocked to the banner in their droves.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270

    MikeL said:

    notable that Fox hasn't picked up anyone since last night either - and I think he is actually down by 2.


    Fox 6

    http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2016/06/whos-backing-who-our-running-list-of-mps-supporting-each-leadership-candidate.html

    Fox's lack of self-awareness is pretty staggering even amongst power-hungry politicians. Best thing he could do for everyone is withdraw right now.
    Indeed. But then, he seems impervious to looking a right prat.

    Somewhat surprised to see Ed Vaizey lining up with The Moggster for Gove.

    Overall though, this looks finished already.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,784

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    DanSmith said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eagle may delay leader bid 'to give Corbyn time to quit': Former shadow minister Angela Eagle looks set to la...

    LOL

    Knows she'll get thrashed. Maybe I'll ask Anthony Joshua to give up his Heavyweight title belt so I can win a match against him too.

    Owen Smith looks more likely now, maybe even Clive Lewis.
    Clive Lewis has charisma in spades, and just looks like he could be a winner, especially with a back story fighting in Afghanistan. If the next leader is a lefty, as is likely judging by the membership, at least let it be one who looks like he could win.

    I think Lewis from the Left is a good candidate and I have no idea why the bunker hasn't struck a deal with the PLP by now whereby they would guarantee him enough nominations if Corbyn stood down.

    That, to me, is the best compromise to break the deadlock.
    Yup, why is this hard?
    If you were in Corbyn's shoes, would you trust the PLP to nominate your candidate?

    Once he stands down, all bets are off.
    Given that the left have the members and the NEC and the right have the MPs it shouldn't be beyond them to cut a deal and make it practically enforceable.
    Yes, but that requires trust & I think that's gone.
    I can solve this for them with about 50 lines of code but I'll need the NEC to pass a rule saying the election will be conducted according to the steps laid out in an Ethereum contract.
    See - other parties should clearly be using Pirate Party principles and the blockchain etc....

    :wink:
  • JennyFreemanJennyFreeman Posts: 488
    It's amusing to see the Remainers acting like KP. The moment there's an English wicket he tweets 'I told you so' messages. The fact that the team is pulling together and starting to do well passes him by.

    Britain will boom but the old bitter remainers (see below) will still be snarling like miserable old men at the fall of every wicket.

    You had your day.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Should 172 MPs be able to subvert the will of the 500,000 party members

    Yes or No

    No

    What support do you think Corbyn has among the members?
    100% in the absence of a challenger.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Pauly said:

    Scott_P said:

    And with the economy booming, the Brexiteers can also pretend this isn't happening

    @krishgm: More than 300 hate crime incidents compared to a weekly average of 63 new figures from the National Police Chiefs' Council show

    As a Conservative I believe in Individual Responsibility. Those criminals are responsible alone for their own actions and to try to smear the leave campaign is to try to abdicate those truly responsible for their abhorrent actions.
    What leave campaign?

    We're all Brexiteers now you know.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,418
    Just remembering the good old days when I would greet friends working in Westminster with 'Hello' rather than 'What the fuck?!' #Borexit
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662
    kle4 said:

    Should 172 MPs be able to subvert the will of the 500,000 party members

    Yes or No

    No

    Yes. We elect representatives to take decisions on our behalf, not to commit us to a course of action from what might have been years ago, when the situation may have changed dramatically, particualrly when the win of those members cannot be assumed to be the same now as it was then (though it could be so).
    Those 172 MPs are in parliament to serve their constituents.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    If true, today's events are still more astonishing:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/748546856905498624
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Charles said:

    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    DanSmith said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eagle may delay leader bid 'to give Corbyn time to quit': Former shadow minister Angela Eagle looks set to la...

    LOL

    Knows she'll get thrashed. Maybe I'll ask Anthony Joshua to give up his Heavyweight title belt so I can win a match against him too.

    Owen Smith looks more likely now, maybe even Clive Lewis.
    Clive Lewis has charisma in spades, and just looks like he could be a winner, especially with a back story fighting in Afghanistan. If the next leader is a lefty, as is likely judging by the membership, at least let it be one who looks like he could win.

    I think Lewis from the Left is a good candidate and I have no idea why the bunker hasn't struck a deal with the PLP by now whereby they would guarantee him enough nominations if Corbyn stood down.

    That, to me, is the best compromise to break the deadlock.
    Yup, why is this hard?
    If you were in Corbyn's shoes, would you trust the PLP to nominate your candidate?

    Once he stands down, all bets are off.
    That is 100% correct.

    Have been saying it since Sunday.

    The PLP takes the members and Jezza for fools
    QUESTION

    Should a leader of a political party remain as leader when he has lost 80% of his own MPs?

    Yes or no.
    Yes
    Well that's just overriding all parliamentary and constitutional precedent. Makes an absolute mockery of our parliamentary democracy. An insight into the far left's mind.
    Sorry but you believe 172 people get to decide who is leader.

    That is not the system any sensible Democratic Socialist party should accept.

    That fortunately is not the system Labour has.

    The PLP is to the far right of our great partys tent and will not prevail in this matter. As the members occupy the centre ground
    Oh good grief, you're not still at it! The leadership of the Labour party is not an elective dictatorship.

    You don't get to do anything you want just because you won a vote. If you fail in the most basic of tasks of political leadership, like being able to work with your own colleague, you cannot do the job, however many votes you might have got.

    Anyway this is not about democracy. You would not make the same argument for another leader. This is about the special circumstances where a group have found themselves leading a party and want absolute control.



  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,944
    "He must live with the shame of what he's done" Heseltine on Boris
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36677623
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    JackW said:

    Pauly said:

    Scott_P said:

    And with the economy booming, the Brexiteers can also pretend this isn't happening

    @krishgm: More than 300 hate crime incidents compared to a weekly average of 63 new figures from the National Police Chiefs' Council show

    As a Conservative I believe in Individual Responsibility. Those criminals are responsible alone for their own actions and to try to smear the leave campaign is to try to abdicate those truly responsible for their abhorrent actions.
    What leave campaign?

    We're all Brexiteers now you know.
    Except those who seek to rejoin in the future as if it is an inevitability. To that I say No! No! No!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    It's amusing to see the Remainers acting like KP. The moment there's an English wicket he tweets 'I told you so' messages. The fact that the team is pulling together and starting to do well passes him by.

    Britain will boom but the old bitter remainers (see below) will still be snarling like miserable old men at the fall of every wicket.

    You had your day.

    Scott Pietersen ? :D

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    If true, today's events are still more astonishing:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/748546856905498624

    Judging my Sarah Vine's email, Gove was worried about Boris setting him up for a fall.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,418

    If true, today's events are still more astonishing:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/748546856905498624

    Well who'd want that hospital pass?
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    JackW said:

    Pauly said:

    Scott_P said:

    And with the economy booming, the Brexiteers can also pretend this isn't happening

    @krishgm: More than 300 hate crime incidents compared to a weekly average of 63 new figures from the National Police Chiefs' Council show

    As a Conservative I believe in Individual Responsibility. Those criminals are responsible alone for their own actions and to try to smear the leave campaign is to try to abdicate those truly responsible for their abhorrent actions.
    What leave campaign?

    We're all Brexiteers now you know.
    Based on the comments on pb, I'm not sure everyone's got the memo yet :). Hope you're feeling better your worship.
  • JennyFreemanJennyFreeman Posts: 488

    "He must live with the shame of what he's done" Heseltine on Boris
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36677623

    Hahahahahahah this is so funny
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,923
    John_M said:

    They've been saying this for ages. Schauble was very clear on the 10th June. Out is Out. In is In.
    It's looking like Out is Out, and In is, "We have this new deal on free movement ready for you. Think about it."
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    It's amusing to see the Remainers acting like KP. The moment there's an English wicket he tweets 'I told you so' messages. The fact that the team is pulling together and starting to do well passes him by.

    Britain will boom but the old bitter remainers (see below) will still be snarling like miserable old men at the fall of every wicket.

    You had your day.

    agree, some have moved on but others are in the denial stage still. This will pass.

    things are already looking much more positive for the conservatives and the economy than most of the doomsayers thought.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    JackW said:

    Pauly said:

    Scott_P said:

    And with the economy booming, the Brexiteers can also pretend this isn't happening

    @krishgm: More than 300 hate crime incidents compared to a weekly average of 63 new figures from the National Police Chiefs' Council show

    As a Conservative I believe in Individual Responsibility. Those criminals are responsible alone for their own actions and to try to smear the leave campaign is to try to abdicate those truly responsible for their abhorrent actions.
    What leave campaign?

    We're all Brexiteers now you know.
    Many 'hate crimes' I understand were verbal attacks on Nigel Farage.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662

    If true, today's events are still more astonishing:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/748546856905498624

    A complete sideshow to what Europe seem to be preparing to lash down on us though.
This discussion has been closed.