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Scott_P said:

@jameskirkup: This Liz Truss piece is now the funniest thing written this week so far. ("I'm backing Boris because Gove is") https://t.co/FFQL2qxuZm

Liz Truss is a poor minister. Best to follow what she does and do the opposite.

JonathanD said:

Can anyone outline to me what appeal they think Gove would have to the general public?

Surely there is no way a Gove led Tory party could win a majority at the General Election.

Perhaps he will be PM until 2019 to oversee Brexit and then stand down in favour of someone more electable.

Gove would lose to anyone but the now fatally damaged Corbyn. Gove is a lefty boogeyman, if he is leader I would expect to see tactical voting amongst labour and lib dems which would deprive them of their majority.

JonathanD said:

Can anyone outline to me what appeal they think Gove would have to the general public?

Surely there is no way a Gove led Tory party could win a majority at the General Election.

Perhaps he will be PM until 2019 to oversee Brexit and then stand down in favour of someone more electable.

Whenever I have heard him on the radio he has been excellent. Self deprecating, funny, warm, very intelligent and unflappable.

And he did a damn good job at education, judged by how much he annoyed the unions there :-)

I am fairly sure however that I am not representative of the public - I always thought Blair was just skin-crawlingly awful, even in 1997.

RobD said:

Gove is running?

Apparently Falconer has quit too.

Has anyone seen or heard from Philip Hammond? What's he up to? He's made no intention of wanting to stand, which is no surprise to us but surely it's critical which way he goes. He gives stature to a dream ticket in a way that Javid doesn't.

There will be a few women laughing at the poetic justice of Boris being used and dumped by Gove

TheScreamingEagles said:

Boris is finding out that there are three sorts of people in the Tory party: shits, bloody shits and fucking shits.

Which one are you **innocent face*** :-)

Jobabob said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

hhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahah

Louise Mensch ‏@LouiseMensch · 40s41 seconds ago

Woke up and digesting Michael Gove's announcement. If there is any doubt about Boris backtracking then of course, I am switching to Gove


total & utter headbanging nutter (now back in US?)


Louise Mensch ‏@LouiseMensch · 46s47 seconds ago
Absolutely nothing matters more than Brexit. Nothing.

She is speaking for many people there sadly Scrapheap – there are many on here who see pretty much all misery as a price worth paying for Brexit.

She won't face any of the consequences, except for a slight dip in back-sales of her books in UK's recession-ridden market.

BannedInParis said:

murali_s said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/748459982086148098

Haha - what a tw*t he is!

ppffft

regularly used in my group (and in the NMR community at large) to put the date on experimental data.

My Director of Studies at Cambridge wrote dates with a Roman numeral for the month. I've taken to doing it myself sometimes - one advantage is that it reduces ambiguity with US date formats.

Glad to know what a t*** I am, murali

John_M said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

bunnco said:

My wife has just come off the phone to her sister, a partner in a US-based firm in the City.

First round of redundancies starts on Monday 'as a direct result of brexit'. As she says, the 'smart' Lawyers who voted Leave on the basis of reducing immigration will certainly get their wishes - they'll be doing their own cleaning whilst looking for other jobs.

Meanwhile, the French, who had been holding-up the top-end residential market in London are pulling out of housing transactions all over the leafy suburbs.

It's started. Project Reality.

There are no planned redundancies at the Silver Circle law firm I'm at, as far as I'm aware. I'm confused why a US operation would act before it knew what the medium term was going to look like.

Everybody is going to use Brexit as the reason for any redundancies at this point. It's only human, and it may even be true.

It reminds me of the hilarious DianaBalls theme in Private Eye back in 1997 - everyone was blaming every minor misfortune on her death, from falling clothing sales to low visitor numbers at English Heritage, some such nonsense. I forget now but there were some doozies

Floater said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Boris is finding out that there are three sorts of people in the Tory party: shits, bloody shits and fucking shits.

Which one are you **innocent face*** :-)

Definitely the latter.

So people who backed Boris because of Gove, will now ultimately back May to kill Gove

murali_s said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/748459982086148098

Haha - what a tw*t he is!

Writing dates with the month expressed as a roman numeral was very common in the civil service when I was with them. I have also noted it amongst senior medical practitioners and some senior army bods. You probably think them all tw*ts as well.

I don't know where the habit comes from, is it an Oxford thing does anyone know?

FrankBooth said:

Has anyone seen or heard from Philip Hammond? What's he up to? He's made no intention of wanting to stand, which is no surprise to us but surely it's critical which way he goes. He gives stature to a dream ticket in a way that Javid doesn't.

Yes, I'd like Hammond to get the keys to Number 11.

MaxPB said:

rottenborough said:

MaxPB said:

This also brings up the serious prospect of Theresa and Boris doing a deal where he becomes chancellor under her and delivers her to the final round and brings a chunk of leave support.

Would Boris want to be Chancellor? All that detail.

Better than Minister for Brexit. He could land Gove with that job if he had power within the May administration.

Minister for Brexit has no power compared with Chancellor.

Minister for Brexit would be like Deputy PM.

Clever move by May to neutralise a major Brexit player.

Patrick said:

MaxPB said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

PlatoSaid said:

Morgan backs Gove.

oh dear.

Osborne's acolytes will line up behind Gove and Osborne will be Gove's chancellor.

Not a chance Osborne will be chancellor. He wants FCO. I suspect that was the deal.

Possibly, but for a Littlefinger type personality the FCO doesn't offer the same ability to scheme and plot as the Treasury does.

Tissue_Price said:

OldKingCole said:

R5 Boris to make a statement in next haf-hour!

That sounds pretty terminal. The nominations close at noon.

Do you think he is a non runner ?

@BBCVickiYoung: Tory MP tells me problem with Boris was "he promised same things to different people and different things to same people" #ToryLeadership

What was that saying about Tory leadership favorites? ...

Pulpstar said:

Tissue_Price said:

OldKingCole said:

R5 Boris to make a statement in next haf-hour!

That sounds pretty terminal. The nominations close at noon.

Do you think he is a non runner ?

I don't know. He might yet be nominated; you can always become a non-runner later.

Cyclefree said:

PlatoSaid said:

OldKingCole said:

nunu said:

How essential is it for city of London to have "passporting"? Any city experts please not mourning remainders.

There was an informed (apparently .... I’m not really qualified to judge) post yesterday which suggested that worries about the City’s position were unnecessary and overdone.

@nunu - have a search for two posts by @Travelgall - she offered a great insight.

Those posts were good. There will however be some negative effect - and it is no point ignoring it. It would be better to keep the passport. But it is certainly the case that Germany and France have significant disadvantages which are not necessarily eliminated by having the passport. See my posts on the previous thread this morning.

It would be better to keep it. But there are lots of variables to consider here.

Posts towards the top of this thread

From my non-expert view, I thought he made valid points but I suspect he is missing the big issue about marketing. The UK's pole position comes from having a critical mass of skilled practitioners, a supportive regulatory regime AND being in the EU. The UK has been in the EU so long, and before the huge globalisation effects on finance, people haven't factored in the likely consequences of Britain leaving the EU. A lot of the business in London starts or ends in the EU who are used to the regime where they are. They won't necessarily want a foreign regime even if it appears to be superior in isolation . People are mobile and becoming more so. If it makes sense to move them businesses will. Add in the fact that a large cohort of those working in the City are French and you have a ready made work force for any operations in that country.

Responding to your earlier point about businesses moving out of London on cost grounds, regardless of Brexit, My take is that London commands a premium so companies will base operations there regardless of the cost. If that premium reduces or disappears on Brexit, London will have to start competing on price - lower salaries in other words.

So it isn't a straightforward Britain is out of the EU so we are out of Britain. But the trend is negative nevertheless.

HurstLlama said:

murali_s said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/748459982086148098

Haha - what a tw*t he is!

Writing dates with the month expressed as a roman numeral was very common in the civil service when I was with them. I have also noted it amongst senior medical practitioners and some senior army bods. You probably think them all tw*ts as well.

I don't know where the habit comes from, is it an Oxford thing does anyone know?

My wife who worked in pharmaceuticals and had to get her lab book signed and dated every day for patent reasons in case they invented anything awesome, always* writes the date as

30th June 2016

To remove ambiguity or any possibility of later falsification

* yes OK not always...

How many MPs are we actually expecting to make up their minds publically at this stage? Will it be many more than the 123?

TheWhiteRabbit said:

bunnco said:

My wife has just come off the phone to her sister, a partner in a US-based firm in the City.

First round of redundancies starts on Monday 'as a direct result of brexit'. As she says, the 'smart' Lawyers who voted Leave on the basis of reducing immigration will certainly get their wishes - they'll be doing their own cleaning whilst looking for other jobs.

Meanwhile, the French, who had been holding-up the top-end residential market in London are pulling out of housing transactions all over the leafy suburbs.

It's started. Project Reality.

There are no planned redundancies at the Silver Circle law firm I'm at, as far as I'm aware. I'm confused why a US operation would act before it knew what the medium term was going to look like.

Exactly - my employer put out a "steady as she goes" communication to staff.

SouthamObserver said:

TOPPING said:

Theme from Gove camp (he himself the other day, and now Raab):

"I won't point fingers at other people"

= it was all my colleagues' fault; they are useless bastards.

Not IMO a great personality trait.

Like Boris, Gove has promised:
* £350 million a week more spending on the NHS.
* Tax cuts
* No tax rises
* No public spending cuts
* All current EU grants and subsidies maintained
* A selection of beneficial trade agreements
* Major reductions in immigration
* Ongoing, full access to the single market
Like Boris, he will not be able to deliver.

St Michael's crucifixion on the cross of broken promises will be longer, more painful and elaborately exquisite, than bluffer Boris's 'gosh, cripes, did I say that? No I didn't!'

stjohn said:

Boris price stable at the moment. 6.2-6.4.

Crazy to back him until we know whether he's running.

I daren't lay him or back him.

Meanwhile laid Eagle, backed Smith in Labour.

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/748459982086148098

Writing the date that way is very sensible if you deal with Americans - it avoids any confusion as to which is the month and which is the day. If you do it often enough, it become habit. When I joined the FCO, that was the way we were encouraged to do it. The only issue, then, is the lower case i in a Roman numeral.

Pulpstar said:

stjohn said:

Boris price stable at the moment. 6.2-6.4.

Crazy to back him until we know whether he's running.

I daren't lay him or back him.

Meanwhile laid Eagle, backed Smith in Labour.

That sounds sensible enough

Floater said:

bunnco said:

My wife has just come off the phone to her sister, a partner in a US-based firm in the City.

First round of redundancies starts on Monday 'as a direct result of brexit'. As she says, the 'smart' Lawyers who voted Leave on the basis of reducing immigration will certainly get their wishes - they'll be doing their own cleaning whilst looking for other jobs.

Meanwhile, the French, who had been holding-up the top-end residential market in London are pulling out of housing transactions all over the leafy suburbs.

It's started. Project Reality.

That was quick .... or is it just a handy excuse.

Almost certainly a bit of both - but without BREXIT it might have been an orderly unwinding - this will be 'sauve qui peut'.....

CarlottaVance said:

SouthamObserver said:

TOPPING said:

Theme from Gove camp (he himself the other day, and now Raab):

"I won't point fingers at other people"

= it was all my colleagues' fault; they are useless bastards.

Not IMO a great personality trait.

Like Boris, Gove has promised:
* £350 million a week more spending on the NHS.
* Tax cuts
* No tax rises
* No public spending cuts
* All current EU grants and subsidies maintained
* A selection of beneficial trade agreements
* Major reductions in immigration
* Ongoing, full access to the single market
Like Boris, he will not be able to deliver.

St Michael's crucifixion on the cross of broken promises will be longer, more painful and elaborately exquisite, than bluffer Boris's 'gosh, cripes, did I say that? No I didn't!'

Yes, people would still love Boris after he fails to deliver. No so with Gove.

JonathanD said:

CarlottaVance said:

SouthamObserver said:

TOPPING said:

Theme from Gove camp (he himself the other day, and now Raab):

"I won't point fingers at other people"

= it was all my colleagues' fault; they are useless bastards.

Not IMO a great personality trait.

Like Boris, Gove has promised:
* £350 million a week more spending on the NHS.
* Tax cuts
* No tax rises
* No public spending cuts
* All current EU grants and subsidies maintained
* A selection of beneficial trade agreements
* Major reductions in immigration
* Ongoing, full access to the single market
Like Boris, he will not be able to deliver.

St Michael's crucifixion on the cross of broken promises will be longer, more painful and elaborately exquisite, than bluffer Boris's 'gosh, cripes, did I say that? No I didn't!'

Gove also has his lack of belief in experts quote to deal with. I can't believe he seriously thinks he could face the electorate and win a majority.

He’s “not liked” in Education, is he.

Jobabob said:

Charlie Falconer has resigned.

All this, and Chilcott to come.

*looks heavenwards*

"You're spoiling us...."

MarqueeMark said:

All this, and Chilcott to come.

Tick. Tock.

Boris speaking now

Boris 5.5-5.7

Everything would be better if the tory party just went to bed for 24 hours.

Preferably alone - yes we are looking at you Mr Gove

Tissue_Price said:

Jesus H. Christ. What a way to respond to the Chakrabarti report:

@MarcusDysch: Corbyn: "'Zio' is a vile epithet. Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for actions of Israel than Muslims are for Islamic State."

Why is anyone surprised? Corbyn has been Chair of Stop the War which was against fighting IS but did want war on Israel (though they tried deleting those bits of their website saying so). In such people's minds there is no moral difference between Israel and IS. Corbyn and his ilk simply do not understand why the relationship between being Jewish and Israel is very different to that between being Muslim and IS. Hence his crassness. He is, of course, right that one should not hold Muslims as a group responsible for the actions of IS. He is far less clear about holding the ideology behind IS responsible for IS.

Jobabob said:

Charlie Falconer has resigned.

2nd class post these days, huh.....

Salmond has just described Gove as Lord Macbeth in the Commons and warned Grayling that he will be next to feel the dagger.

scotslass said:

Salmond has just described Gove as Lord Macbeth in the Commons and warned Grayling that he will be next to feel the dagger.

Who is watching coverage of the commons right now?

No idea Paul Flynn was 81. He's doing quite well.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

The e mail from Gove's wife made clear that Dacre and Murdoch were pulling strings behind the scene. For that reason alone both Boris and Gove need to lose. Surely Teresa has to win this now - I am voting for her and I do have a vote

Big_G, I am mystified how a person who has himself told us that he does not have the personal qualities and skill set to be party leader let alone PM can credibly run for both jobs. The May campaign just need to dig out those interviews and articles and circulate them, repeatedly.

I admire Gove, I think he is devastatingly intelligent and a principled man. I am therefore confused by his sudden offer to run for the top job, a job he has already said he is unfit to hold. The only solution to this conundrum that I can see is that he is out to kill off Boris's campaign, to keep May "honest" but not to win.

Boris sounds deflated and tired - not the least inspiring

Cyclefree said:

Tissue_Price said:

Jesus H. Christ. What a way to respond to the Chakrabarti report:

@MarcusDysch: Corbyn: "'Zio' is a vile epithet. Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for actions of Israel than Muslims are for Islamic State."

Why is anyone surprised? Corbyn has been Chair of Stop the War which was against fighting IS but did want war on Israel (though they tried deleting those bits of their website saying so). In such people's minds there is no moral difference between Israel and IS. Corbyn and his ilk simply do not understand why the relationship between being Jewish and Israel is very different to that between being Muslim and IS. Hence his crassness. He is, of course, right that one should not hold Muslims as a group responsible for the actions of IS. He is far less clear about holding the ideology behind IS responsible for IS.

Tom Harris: "To be fair, Corbyn does see a difference between Israel and isis. He doesn’t think bombing Isis is justified."

FFS

http://order-order.com/2016/06/30/chakrabarti-report-no-lifetime-ban-anti-semites/

Chakrabarti who just happens to be a Labour member.

TheWhiteRabbit said:

bunnco said:

My wife has just come off the phone to her sister, a partner in a US-based firm in the City.

First round of redundancies starts on Monday 'as a direct result of brexit'. As she says, the 'smart' Lawyers who voted Leave on the basis of reducing immigration will certainly get their wishes - they'll be doing their own cleaning whilst looking for other jobs.

Meanwhile, the French, who had been holding-up the top-end residential market in London are pulling out of housing transactions all over the leafy suburbs.

It's started. Project Reality.

There are no planned redundancies at the Silver Circle law firm I'm at, as far as I'm aware. I'm confused why a US operation would act before it knew what the medium term was going to look like.

It sounds more like a pretext for a decision that was taken some time ago.

TheScreamingEagles said:

I suspect last Monday's telegraph column by Boris will be as famous as that Sion Simon article, that is seldom linked to on PM.

I didn't actually read the article, what was so bad about it? I thought he was supposed to be a good opinion writer...

MontyHall said:

stjohn said:

Boris 5.5-5.7

The person making a speech shortens in the betting... Its becoming a pattern!

He deserves to shorten because he's making the speech at all. The 6.4 included a fair chance that he was chucking it in right now.