politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » David Herdson says the post-Corbyn chapter opens
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only ABs in the South EastMonksfield said:
Shall we wait and see? Petrol back up at £1.30, interest rate rises, the £ at E1.15 and the FTSE back at 5200 will wake a few folk up.david_herdson said:
They've made their decisions. Either they're grown up enough to be entitled to a vote or they're not. Thursday saw the biggest UK turnout in British polls since 1992: people wanted to be engaged in a way they have not been in a generation. That decision must now be implemented.Monksfield said:
Do keep living in fantasy world... Watch how the markets react tomorrow to this weekends shitstorm.....Indigo said:
Christ on a bike do we really have to spell it out in words of one syllable ?Monksfield said:Instead, as we watch the City decamp to the Eurozone, Johnson and Gove are ultimately going to have to fess up to the British people that it was all a game of political bait and switch that got out of hand, there was no plan, that they didn't appreciate the magnitude of the consequences for our economy, and that we simply can't afford to spend the next dozen years untangling our affairs from Europe.
Buffoons, the both of them.
Johnson is not in the government and may well never be in the government, Gove is Justice Secretary, but may well not be on Monday, if the Tories elect say May as the next PM neither of them will be responsible for anything.
There is no "Leave" there is no "Remain" the campaigns are over, the people have spoken, it is up to the elected government, currently headed by D. Cameron Esq to make the best of the current situation until such time as either the Tories elect a new leader, or a general election is called.
Why should Cameron take responsibility for an outcome he passionately opposed. The people have spoken but I'd be highly surprised if they get the outcome they expect.
Because the campaigns are not finished by any chalk. Before A50 is signed the remainers can and will and indeed should point to every iterative consequence that flows from this vote.
The people have been lied to and deceived - that will become increasingly obvious to all.
There is a question of What Comes Next. It's a complex one and one that it's best to let parliament decide. But Leave means leave.
As for the people being deceived, Project Fear wasn't so called without reason. It's not their fault if they didn't believe it.0 -
The public had never heard of him? Are you sure?Luckyguy1983 said:
What's to blame? Gove would make an immeasurably better PM than Cameron in my opinion. He also had a fairly good EUref campaign and did well when exposed to a public who had never heard of him.GIN1138 said:
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.SquareRoot said:
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .HYUFD said:Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
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Oh Dear, Oh Dear, Oh Dear. Suez on Steroids unfolds.0
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There is so much buyers remorse going around these days!SeanT said:I called the referendum wrong but I predicted this, in the event of Brexit: that Labour elite would be so furious they'd mount a coup, feeling they have nothing left to lose.
Corbyn must surely go.
Most of my Corbynite Labour friends now regret electing him as leader, FWIW0 -
He makes Bernie Sanders look positively like an early quitter..RodCrosby said:Sky: Corbyn "defiant", according to his team...
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It's another reason why the Tories may want to choose a Remainer to be their next leader. It will be much easier for such a person to do that kind of deal and then sell it.Alanbrooke said:
Oddly like you SO I still dont believe we'll leave. Cameron was stupid to reject associate membership which is something most brits would vote for. I suspect we'll end up with a classic fudge. Watching the Germans theyre slowly realisng they have a series of problems too. If Cameron had stayed in place I think we'd be heading for EUref 2 by now but he legged it.SouthamObserver said:
In a strange kind of way I am enjoying it. The UK that was is no more and it's not coming back. Thursday changed everything. It's time for England to sort itself out and I think that we may be at the start of that. I am still not fully convinced that we will actually leave the EU.Theuniondivvie said:
Thanks.SouthamObserver said:
It makes no sense to me. What would Westminster actually gain from that? It just smacks of some kind of misplaced British/English nationalism. English and Welsh voters have completely changed the union settlement Scots endorsed two years ago. Scots have every right to revisit their decision.Theuniondivvie said:
Come, come, Luckyguy and various other PB Brexiteers have said it ain't happening. That's good enough for me.SouthamObserver said:
It would be insane to try to. Not only anti-democratic, but also entirely self-defeating - both in Scotland and internationally.Lowlander said:On Daily Politics Scotland (only just catching up, apologies if already posted) Fluffy Mundell refused to commit to blocking a second Indyref.
I think that is good enough to say that the UK government will not try to stop one.
On a side note, Sturgeon is going to run rings round Boris. You are very lucky to have her. I was never a fan, but she has shown extraordinary leadership and political skill since Friday. Now I am deeply envious. Good luck to you all.
I realise things are not turning out the way you might want, so your good opinion is all the more appreciated.
I genuinely wish you the very best of luck. I love Scotland and will enjoy visiting it in the future. It will not be a foreign country ever to me. But it is clear that Scottish voters have every right to decide whether it should become an independent one. If they do, we down here should do all we can to help ensure the transition is as smooth and as painless as possible.
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He will go only to be replaced by McDonnell, Labour would be mad to elect a social democratic europhile after the public have voted Leave, if some Labour MPs want that they can join the LDs. The Corbyn/McDonnell wing is in charge at least until the next electionSeanT said:I called the referendum wrong but I predicted this, in the event of Brexit: that Labour elite would be so furious they'd mount a coup, feeling they have nothing left to lose.
Corbyn must surely go.
Most of my Corbynite Labour friends now regret electing him as leader, FWIW0 -
SeanT said:
I called the referendum wrong but I predicted this, in the event of Brexit: that Labour elite would be so furious they'd mount a coup, feeling they have nothing left to lose.
Corbyn must surely go.
Most of my Corbynite Labour friends now regret electing him as leader, FWIW
The referendum is the first real loss* for Labour since Corbyn came aboard. And it's a big one.
That will affect a lot of those who previously supported him.
* Even if Corbyn actually wanted it.
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Yes and he's made it clear by his actions that he won't sign A50. So someone else needs to start mapping out some plans.Indigo said:
I know this is hard for you, but do try and keep upMonksfield said:Why should Cameron take responsibility for an outcome he passionately opposed. The people have spoken but I'd be highly surprised if they get the outcome they expect.
BECAUSE HE IS THE PRIME MINISTER.0 -
Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.SquareRoot said:
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..GIN1138 said:
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.SquareRoot said:
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .HYUFD said:Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..0 -
So they need to take responsibility for their actions. This was all explained in advance: they voted for it.Monksfield said:
Shall we wait and see? Petrol back up at £1.30, interest rate rises, the £ at E1.15 and the FTSE back at 5200 will wake a few folk up.david_herdson said:
They've made their decisions. Either they're grown up enough to be entitled to a vote or they're not. Thursday saw the biggest UK turnout in British polls since 1992: people wanted to be engaged in a way they have not been in a generation. That decision must now be implemented.Monksfield said:
Do keep living in fantasy world... Watch how the markets react tomorrow to this weekends shitstorm.....Indigo said:
Christ on a bike do we really have to spell it out in words of one syllable ?Monksfield said:Instead, as we watch the City decamp to the Eurozone, Johnson and Gove are ultimately going to have to fess up to the British people that it was all a game of political bait and switch that got out of hand, there was no plan, that they didn't appreciate the magnitude of the consequences for our economy, and that we simply can't afford to spend the next dozen years untangling our affairs from Europe.
Buffoons, the both of them.
Johnson is not in the government and may well never be in the government, Gove is Justice Secretary, but may well not be on Monday, if the Tories elect say May as the next PM neither of them will be responsible for anything.
There is no "Leave" there is no "Remain" the campaigns are over, the people have spoken, it is up to the elected government, currently headed by D. Cameron Esq to make the best of the current situation until such time as either the Tories elect a new leader, or a general election is called.
Why should Cameron take responsibility for an outcome he passionately opposed. The people have spoken but I'd be highly surprised if they get the outcome they expect.
Because the campaigns are not finished by any chalk. Before A50 is signed the remainers can and will and indeed should point to every iterative consequence that flows from this vote.
The people have been lied to and deceived - that will become increasingly obvious to all.
There is a question of What Comes Next. It's a complex one and one that it's best to let parliament decide. But Leave means leave.
As for the people being deceived, Project Fear wasn't so called without reason. It's not their fault if they didn't believe it.0 -
The Brexiteers are an ongoing source of entertainment.
Having cheered Boris as he torched the building, they are now whining that Cameron isn't dousing the flames fast enough
Awesome
https://twitter.com/brianspanner1/status/7464883165104824330 -
A Remainer should stand a platform of getting the best deal for Britain. And that's it. he/she will need as much flexibility as possible. Boris just does not have that. He has made big promises.IanB2 said:
May's only chance - which actually I'd put at reasonably good - is if she owns the decision and maps out some sort of a plan for delivering it. There's no other platform on which anyone is going to become Tory Leader. Remember that, although there are a some Tory remainers, many of them went that way out of loyalty to Cameron, rather than conviction. If their Leader is seen as competent, many Tories will follow, and the key is whether May can put together a convincing prospectus..Indigo said:
So lets imagine for a second that its Boris and May in the Tory leadership elections, and the membership selects May, and she choses not to place either Boris or Gove in her cabinet and leaves them to sulk on the back benches. How do you see them following up their promises ?currystar said:
You are not quite getting that people voted for the Leave manifesto. The Leave team have a bigger mandate than any government for decades. Remain lost. D Cameron Esq was the head of the remain campaign. He has therefore resigned. The public who voted leave will expect now for the leave promises to happen. If they don't I cant imagine the public will be happy. They are hardly going to criticise Cameron.Indigo said:
Christ on a bike do we really have to spell it out in words of one syllable ?Monksfield said:Instead, as we watch the City decamp to the Eurozone, Johnson and Gove are ultimately going to have to fess up to the British people that it was all a game of political bait and switch that got out of hand, there was no plan, that they didn't appreciate the magnitude of the consequences for our economy, and that we simply can't afford to spend the next dozen years untangling our affairs from Europe.
Buffoons, the both of them.
Johnson is not in the government and may well never be in the government, Gove is Justice Secretary, but may well not be on Monday, if the Tories elect say May as the next PM neither of them will be responsible for anything.
There is no "Leave" there is no "Remain" the campaigns are over, the people have spoken, it is up to the elected government, currently headed by D. Cameron Esq to make the best of the current situation until such time as either the Tories elect a new leader, or a general election is called.
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I agree completely. I was just highlighting that all this Leave own the result stuff is so much hot air, who ever ends up as the next Tory leader, from which ever camp they came from "owns the result", because ultimately the elected government is accountable to the British people for the result.IanB2 said:
May's only chance - which actually I'd put at reasonably good - is if she owns the decision and maps out some sort of a plan for delivering it. There's no other platform on which anyone is going to become Tory Leader. Remember that, although there are a some Tory remainers, many of them went that way out of loyalty to Cameron, rather than conviction. If their Leader is seen as competent, many Tories will follow, and the key is whether May can put together a convincing prospectus..Indigo said:
So lets imagine for a second that its Boris and May in the Tory leadership elections, and the membership selects May, and she choses not to place either Boris or Gove in her cabinet and leaves them to sulk on the back benches. How do you see them following up their promises ?currystar said:
You are not quite getting that people voted for the Leave manifesto. The Leave team have a bigger mandate than any government for decades. Remain lost. D Cameron Esq was the head of the remain campaign. He has therefore resigned. The public who voted leave will expect now for the leave promises to happen. If they don't I cant imagine the public will be happy. They are hardly going to criticise Cameron.Indigo said:
Christ on a bike do we really have to spell it out in words of one syllable ?Monksfield said:Instead, as we watch the City decamp to the Eurozone, Johnson and Gove are ultimately going to have to fess up to the British people that it was all a game of political bait and switch that got out of hand, there was no plan, that they didn't appreciate the magnitude of the consequences for our economy, and that we simply can't afford to spend the next dozen years untangling our affairs from Europe.
Buffoons, the both of them.
Johnson is not in the government and may well never be in the government, Gove is Justice Secretary, but may well not be on Monday, if the Tories elect say May as the next PM neither of them will be responsible for anything.
There is no "Leave" there is no "Remain" the campaigns are over, the people have spoken, it is up to the elected government, currently headed by D. Cameron Esq to make the best of the current situation until such time as either the Tories elect a new leader, or a general election is called.0 -
Wouldn't a *leaver* have an easier job of selling it? The obvious one to do it is Boris, who doesn't appear to have any particular principles.SouthamObserver said:
It's another reason why the Tories may want to choose a Remainer to be their next leader. It will be much easier for such a person to do that kind of deal and then sell it.Alanbrooke said:
Oddly like you SO I still dont believe we'll leave. Cameron was stupid to reject associate membership which is something most brits would vote for. I suspect we'll end up with a classic fudge. Watching the Germans theyre slowly realisng they have a series of problems too. If Cameron had stayed in place I think we'd be heading for EUref 2 by now but he legged it.SouthamObserver said:
In a strange kind of way I am enjoying it. The UK that was is no more and it's not coming back. Thursday changed everything. It's time for England to sort itself out and I think that we may be at the start of that. I am still not fully convinced that we will actually leave the EU.Theuniondivvie said:
Thanks.SouthamObserver said:
It makes no sense to me. What would Westminster actually gain from that? It just smacks of some kind of misplaced British/English nationalism. English and Welsh voters have completely changed the union settlement Scots endorsed two years ago. Scots have every right to revisit their decision.Theuniondivvie said:
Come, come, Luckyguy and various other PB Brexiteers have said it ain't happening. That's good enough for me.SouthamObserver said:
It would be insane to try to. Not only anti-democratic, but also entirely self-defeating - both in Scotland and internationally.Lowlander said:On Daily Politics Scotland (only just catching up, apologies if already posted) Fluffy Mundell refused to commit to blocking a second Indyref.
I think that is good enough to say that the UK government will not try to stop one.
On a side note, Sturgeon is going to run rings round Boris. You are very lucky to have her. I was never a fan, but she has shown extraordinary leadership and political skill since Friday. Now I am deeply envious. Good luck to you all.
I realise things are not turning out the way you might want, so your good opinion is all the more appreciated.
I genuinely wish you the very best of luck. I love Scotland and will enjoy visiting it in the future. It will not be a foreign country ever to me. But it is clear that Scottish voters have every right to decide whether it should become an independent one. If they do, we down here should do all we can to help ensure the transition is as smooth and as painless as possible.0 -
A big problem for a PM from the Leave side is all the unrealistic promises about 19bn for the nhs ect. A quiet remainer would not have this baggage.0
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For me as long as they can get the finance side sorted the case for Scottish Independence is overwhelming. I just don't understand the desire to then give up a huge amount of that independence by signing back into the EU.Theuniondivvie said:
'Do you wish to be a member of a union that dictates your foreign policy, military actions, immigration policy, the siting of nuclear weapons on your territory, 2/3 of your taxation, 3/4 of your welfare policy and whether or not you're a member of the EU?'chestnut said:
It really isn't because the supposed new question has never been asked.HYUFD said:
The trend is clearchestnut said:
It's far too early to jump to conclusions on Scotland.HYUFD said:
Panelbase has it 52% to 48% for independence in Scotland but independence is inevitable, Brexit was a vote for English nationalism almost as much as against the EUNickPalmer said:Not sure they've been mentioned, but two interesting polls. A second referendum is rejected by just 50% - 39 want one, 11% aren't sure. And a Scottish poll shows 59% for Scottish independence.
As for Labour, we shall see - as I predicted, this week will see the organised assault. But Corbyn will simply shgrug off stages 1 and 2 and then we'll have a leadership contest, for which it's not clear that any challenger is in a position to win. But it's certainly showdown time.
"Do you wish to leave the UK to get your law dictated by Brussels?"
I campaigned for Independence up here last time (as an Englishman working in Scotland off and on) and will probably do so next time although I will have to think twice about it if they really do want to rejoin the EU.0 -
The problem there is that they're going to get demagogued from the right for betraying the country.woody662 said:A big problem for a PM from the Leave side is all the unrealistic promises about 19bn for the nhs ect. A quiet remainer would not have this baggage.
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Ireland 1 France 00
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That's true. Many of them want forced repatriation.Alanbrooke said:Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.
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True. Fortunately, there'll be a contest soon where aspirant PM's can do precisely that.Monksfield said:
Yes and he's made it clear by his actions that he won't sign A50. So someone else needs to start mapping out some plans.Indigo said:
I know this is hard for you, but do try and keep upMonksfield said:Why should Cameron take responsibility for an outcome he passionately opposed. The people have spoken but I'd be highly surprised if they get the outcome they expect.
BECAUSE HE IS THE PRIME MINISTER.0 -
Unfortunately she believes the best interests of Scotland are served by being independent. Otherwise she is absolutely right.Lowlander said:I would urge everyone to listen to this 30 second clip. This is what a real leader sounds like.
https://twitter.com/MeanwhileScotia/status/7470366671444459530 -
No blame for Dave , he decided to fuck the country to get a wafer thin majority for one year!SquareRoot said:
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..GIN1138 said:
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.SquareRoot said:
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .HYUFD said:Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
It is his fault due to him being rubbish.0 -
Are there Uplands oop-north in Wakefield: geography was never my strongest subject, exclusing (inadvertantly) southern coastal conference centres.JackW said:
Surely Wakefield Sunlit Uplands ?JohnO said:Mr Speaker, I thank and completely agree with my Rt Hon Friend, the member for Wakefield Sunlit.
Great to see you back.0 -
big promises, and comparing the EU project to the ambitions of Hitler. Bet that went down well in France and Germany!SouthamObserver said:
A Remainer should stand a platform of getting the best deal for Britain. And that's it. he/she will need as much flexibility as possible. Boris just does not have that. He has made big promises.IanB2 said:
May's only chance - which actually I'd put at reasonably good - is if she owns the decision and maps out some sort of a plan for delivering it. There's no other platform on which anyone is going to become Tory Leader. Remember that, although there are a some Tory remainers, many of them went that way out of loyalty to Cameron, rather than conviction. If their Leader is seen as competent, many Tories will follow, and the key is whether May can put together a convincing prospectus..Indigo said:
So lets imagine for a second that its Boris and May in the Tory leadership elections, and the membership selects May, and she choses not to place either Boris or Gove in her cabinet and leaves them to sulk on the back benches. How do you see them following up their promises ?currystar said:
You are not quite getting that people voted for the Leave manifesto. The Leave team have a bigger mandate than any government for decades. Remain lost. D Cameron Esq was the head of the remain campaign. He has therefore resigned. The public who voted leave will expect now for the leave promises to happen. If they don't I cant imagine the public will be happy. They are hardly going to criticise Cameron.Indigo said:
Christ on a bike do we really have to spell it out in words of one syllable ?Monksfield said:Instead, as we watch the City decamp to the Eurozone, Johnson and Gove are ultimately going to have to fess up to the British people that it was all a game of political bait and switch that got out of hand, there was no plan, that they didn't appreciate the magnitude of the consequences for our economy, and that we simply can't afford to spend the next dozen years untangling our affairs from Europe.
Buffoons, the both of them.
Johnson is not in the government and may well never be in the government, Gove is Justice Secretary, but may well not be on Monday, if the Tories elect say May as the next PM neither of them will be responsible for anything.
There is no "Leave" there is no "Remain" the campaigns are over, the people have spoken, it is up to the elected government, currently headed by D. Cameron Esq to make the best of the current situation until such time as either the Tories elect a new leader, or a general election is called.0 -
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Alanbrooke said:
Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.SquareRoot said:
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..GIN1138 said:
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.SquareRoot said:
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .HYUFD said:Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
You mean in a range from zero immigrants to negative immigration0 -
Lots of uplands but sunlit, no so much...JohnO said:
Are there Uplands oop-north in Wakefield: geography was never my strongest subject, exclusing (inadvertantly) southern coastal conference centres.JackW said:
Surely Wakefield Sunlit Uplands ?JohnO said:Mr Speaker, I thank and completely agree with my Rt Hon Friend, the member for Wakefield Sunlit.
Great to see you back.0 -
yes I'd have thought so, a few tweaks from a more serious negotiation and I suspect it would have support. The remainers would breathe a sigh of relief that we're still mostly in and the leavers would be happy a line was drawn in the sand versus ever closer Union.SouthamObserver said:
It's another reason why the Tories may want to choose a Remainer to be their next leader. It will be much easier for such a person to do that kind of deal and then sell it.Alanbrooke said:
Oddly like you SO I still dont believe we'll leave. Cameron was stupid to reject associate membership which is something most brits would vote for. I suspect we'll end up with a classic fudge. Watching the Germans theyre slowly realisng they have a series of problems too. If Cameron had stayed in place I think we'd be heading for EUref 2 by now but he legged it.SouthamObserver said:
In a strange kind of way I amless as possible.Theuniondivvie said:
Thanks.SouthamObserver said:
It makes no sense to me. riday. Now I am deeply envious. Good luck to you all.Theuniondivvie said:
Come, come, Luckyguy and various other PB Brexiteers have said it ain't happening. That's good enough for me.SouthamObserver said:
It would be insane to try to. Not only anti-democratic, but also entirely self-defeating - both in Scotland and internationally.Lowlander said:On Daily Politics Scotland (only just catching up, apologies if already posted) Fluffy Mundell refused to commit to blocking a second Indyref.
I think that is good enough to say that the UK government will not try to stop one.
I realise things are not turning out the way you might want, so your good opinion is all the more appreciated.0 -
Evidence ?Scott_P said:
That's true. Many of them want forced repatriation.Alanbrooke said:Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.
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IanB2 said:
big promises, and comparing the EU project to the ambitions of Hitler. Bet that went down well in France and Germany!
Do you remember what Cameron said about Khan in the Mayoral election?
And how they still campaigned together shortly afterwards?
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I've got to say I don't see the mad rush. The referendum verdict is in and we will have a new Prime Minister soon enough, who will have campaigned to lead the Conservative party on a prospectus as to how to implement that verdict.
Let's just hope that he or she doesn't discard that prospectus as speedily as Leave have discarded theirs.0 -
No. And it may not make an appearance at all.foxinsoxuk said:Has your US-ARSE delivered an initial offerring?
I'm being allowed some PB time for a few days to dictate a few missives and calm the PB markets.
Then a break for some R&R and we'll see how I'm doing. So presently there is no ARSE4US BREXIT plan. Sounds familiar.
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Keep voting till you get the right answer.MP_SE said:Heseltine will be on Sky News shortly. Should be good.
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@vsmacdonald: Graffiti scrawled across Polish Centre in Hammersmith telling them to 'go home'. In a borough where 70% voted remain @andyslaughtermpTykejohnno said:Evidence ?
@JakubKrupa: Met Police: we can confirm there has been a racially motivated criminal damage done to @posklondon, investigation pending0 -
He has made too many big promises. He would be howled down for betrayal.edmundintokyo said:
Wouldn't a *leaver* have an easier job of selling it? The obvious one to do it is Boris, who doesn't appear to have any particular principles.SouthamObserver said:
It's another reason why the Tories may want to choose a Remainer to be their next leader. It will be much easier for such a person to do that kind of deal and then sell it.Alanbrooke said:
Oddly like you SO I still dont believe we'll leave. Cameron was stupid to reject associate membership which is something most brits would vote for. I suspect we'll end up with a classic fudge. Watching the Germans theyre slowly realisng they have a series of problems too. If Cameron had stayed in place I think we'd be heading for EUref 2 by now but he legged it.SouthamObserver said:
In a strange kind of way I am enjoying it. The UK that was is no more and it's not coming back. an independent one. If they do, we down here should do all we can to help ensure the transition is as smooth and as painless as possible.Theuniondivvie said:
Thanks.SouthamObserver said:
It makes no sense to me. What would Westminster actually gain from that? It just smacks of some kind of misplaced British/English nationalism. English and Welsh voters have completely changed the union settlement Scots endorsed two years ago. Scots have every right to revisit their decision.Theuniondivvie said:
Come, come, Luckyguy and various other PB Brexiteers have said it ain't happening. That's good enough for me.SouthamObserver said:
It would be insane to try to. Not only anti-democratic, but also entirely self-defeating - both in Scotland and internationally.Lowlander said:On Daily Politics Scotland (only just catching up, apologies if already posted) Fluffy Mundell refused to commit to blocking a second Indyref.
I think that is good enough to say that the UK government will not try to stop one.
On a side note, Sturgeon is going to run rings round Boris. You are very lucky to have her. I was never a fan, but she has shown extraordinary leadership and political skill since Friday. Now I am deeply envious. Good luck to you all.
I realise things are not turning out the way you might want, so your good opinion is all the more appreciated.
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even more stupiud than ususalScott_P said:
That's true. Many of them want forced repatriation.Alanbrooke said:Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.
and dont bother to post your photo from last night youll look even more daft0 -
revisionist nonsense. Noone believed Dave could get a majority.. Against all the odds he did.Alistair said:
No blame for Dave , he decided to fuck the country to get a wafer thin majority for one year!SquareRoot said:
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..GIN1138 said:
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.SquareRoot said:
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .HYUFD said:Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
It is his fault due to him being rubbish.0 -
That is very good, isn't it?Scott_P said:The Brexiteers are an ongoing source of entertainment.
Having cheered Boris as he torched the building, they are now whining that Cameron isn't dousing the flames fast enough
Awesome
https://twitter.com/brianspanner1/status/7464883165104824330 -
lol you really are pathetic.Scott_P said:
@vsmacdonald: Graffiti scrawled across Polish Centre in Hammersmith telling them to 'go home'. In a borough where 70% voted remain @andyslaughtermpTykejohnno said:Evidence ?
0 -
You could argue we need a general election in which parties state what kind of deal they want. We can't allow one party to renegotiate our relationship with a PM who's never won an election and a proper debate.AlastairMeeks said:I've got to say I don't see the mad rush. The referendum verdict is in and we will have a new Prime Minister soon enough, who will have campaigned to lead the Conservative party on a prospectus as to how to implement that verdict.
Let's just hope that he or she doesn't discard that prospectus as speedily as Leave have discarded theirs.0 -
Define "many". Hint: it's less than 1%...Scott_P said:
That's true. Many of them want forced repatriation.Alanbrooke said:Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.
0 -
FPT:
Not all people who voted Remain are Britain-hating Quisling French-cheese eating surrender monkeys, but all Britain hating Quisling French-cheese eating surrender monkeys voted Remain.murali_s said:"Not all the people who voted Leave are racist but all racists voted Leave." Sadly so true.
Now can we just stop with this inane meme? This place is better than that0 -
Keep your eyes closed, put your fingers in your ears and sing LA,LA,LA I can't hear you.Alanbrooke said:even more stupiud than ususal
and dont bother to post your photo from last night youll look even more daft
It's happening, even if you don't want to confront it0 -
That's about as credible as saying all remainers want unlimited immigration from across the world.SquareRoot said:Alanbrooke said:
Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.SquareRoot said:
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..GIN1138 said:
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.SquareRoot said:
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .HYUFD said:Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
You mean in a range from zero immigrants to negative immigration0 -
1% of 17 million...MarqueeMark said:Define "many". Hint: it's less than 1%...
0 -
What part of this don't you understand:steve_garner said:Since when did being criticised exonerate a PM from a gross dereliction of his duty?
Monksfield said:
That was before he was rubbished by a bunch of charlatans and snake oil salesmen.steve_garner said:Cameron promised the country a referendum and delivered one. He then said that irrespective of the result he would stay as PM and implement the will of the people. He was crystal clear about that. If currently there is an absence of a detailed plan for leaving it's Cameron's fault alone.
And most brexiteers on here.
Cameron lost. He had no option but to resign and did the honourable thing. His duty is now to hold the fort until the Tories elect a replacement. That contest will have to centre on how the contestants would address the issue of A50. And will take place against the unravelling of the claims made by the leave campaign and highly visible negative impacts on our economy.
The winner will be the person who has to clear up the mess. They may call a GE to deliver the mandate they need.
0 -
Thank you JohnO.JohnO said:
Are there Uplands oop-north in Wakefield: geography was never my strongest subject, exclusing (inadvertantly) southern coastal conference centres.JackW said:
Surely Wakefield Sunlit Uplands ?JohnO said:Mr Speaker, I thank and completely agree with my Rt Hon Friend, the member for Wakefield Sunlit.
Great to see you back.
A few guest appearances only. Mrs JackW says "less is more" although that apparently doesn't apply to ladies footwear apparel where more is less in the wallet department.
Twas ever thus.0 -
It's the Weekend, dear chap. Do have some decorum.SouthamObserver said:0 -
Well quite.SouthamObserver said:0 -
I'll keep an eye out for the Ku Klux Klan on the way in to work then. Haven't seen any of them so far this year though.Scott_P said:
Keep your eyes closed, put your fingers in your ears and sing LA,LA,LA I can't hear you.Alanbrooke said:even more stupiud than ususal
and dont bother to post your photo from last night youll look even more daft
It's happening, even if you don't want to confront it0 -
I definitely see things as more Belgium than Italy right now. fractured parties unable to go to the polls and an independence movement holding the balance of power but refusing to compromise.SouthamObserver said:0 -
Comical Aleave can confirm that the xenophobes are not taking licence from the vote, but are instead stuck in a sand dune well outside Baghdad.Scott_P said:
@vsmacdonald: Graffiti scrawled across Polish Centre in Hammersmith telling them to 'go home'. In a borough where 70% voted remain @andyslaughtermpTykejohnno said:Evidence ?
@JakubKrupa: Met Police: we can confirm there has been a racially motivated criminal damage done to @posklondon, investigation pending0 -
I don't see why Cameron losing a referendum meant he couldn't stay on. Would have been the best person to bring the country together after the vote IMO.Monksfield said:
What part of this don't you understand:steve_garner said:Since when did being criticised exonerate a PM from a gross dereliction of his duty?
Monksfield said:
That was before he was rubbished by a bunch of charlatans and snake oil salesmen.steve_garner said:Cameron promised the country a referendum and delivered one. He then said that irrespective of the result he would stay as PM and implement the will of the people. He was crystal clear about that. If currently there is an absence of a detailed plan for leaving it's Cameron's fault alone.
And most brexiteers on here.
Cameron lost. He had no option but to resign and did the honourable thing. His duty is now to hold the fort until the Tories elect a replacement. That contest will have to centre on how the contestants would address the issue of A50. And will take place against the unravelling of the claims made by the leave campaign and highly visible negative impacts on our economy.
The winner will be the person who has to clear up the mess. They may call a GE to deliver the mandate they need.0 -
The Tory members will pick a BREXITEER by a landslide to ensure out means OutSouthamObserver said:
It's another reason why the Tories may want to choose a Remainer to be their next leader. It will be much easier for such a person to do that kind of deal and then sell it.Alanbrooke said:
Oddly like you SO I still dont believe we'll leave. Cameron was stupid to reject associate membership which is something most brits would vote for. I suspect we'll end up with a classic fudge. Watching the Germans theyre slowly realisng they have a series of problems too. If Cameron had stayed in place I think we'd be heading for EUref 2 by now but he legged it.SouthamObserver said:
In a strange kind of way I am enjoying it. The UK that was is no more and it's not coming back. Thursday changed everything. It's time for England to sort itself out and I think that we may be at the start of that. I am still not fully convinced that we will actually leave the EU.Theuniondivvie said:
Thanks.SouthamObserver said:
It makes no sense to me. What would Westminster actually gain from that? It just smacks of some kind of misplaced British/English nationalism. English and Welsh voters have completely changed the union settlement Scots endorsed two years ago. Scots have every right to revisit their decision.Theuniondivvie said:
Come, come, Luckyguy and various other PB Brexiteers have said it ain't happening. That's good enough for me.SouthamObserver said:
It would be insane to try to. Not only anti-democratic, but also entirely self-defeating - both in Scotland and internationally.Lowlander said:On Daily Politics Scotland (only just catching up, apologies if already posted) Fluffy Mundell refused to commit to blocking a second Indyref.
I think that is good enough to say that the UK government will not try to stop one.
On a side note, Sturgeon is going to run rings round Boris. You are very lucky to have her. I was never a fan, but she has shown extraordinary leadership and political skill since Friday. Now I am deeply envious. Good luck to you all.
I realise things are not turning out the way you might want, so your good opinion is all the more appreciated.
I genuinely wish you the very best of luck. I love Scotland and will enjoy visiting it in the future. It will not be a foreign country ever to me. But it is clear that Scottish voters have every right to decide whether it should become an independent one. If they do, we down here should do all we can to help ensure the transition is as smooth and as painless as possible.0 -
0
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David , we already had an Elizabeth so she is II to Scotland , only I for the UK. You may not remember but many post boxes were burned years ago for that very reasondavid_herdson said:
Would she be renumbered as Elizabeth I (or just Elizabeth) in an independent Scotland?malcolmg said:
GIN, she will still be Elizabeth II of ScotlandGIN1138 said:
She certainly had a smile on her face on Friday morning... She might be getting a bit concerned about what's going on with Scotland though?TCPoliticalBetting said:
HMQ probably pleased to get her country back?GIN1138 said:
Now HMQ is the woman to tell Cameron to pull himself together... She may already have done so (several times)Stark_Dawning said:
Not so. Apparently Churchill was nearly speechless and overcome with tears when greeting the Queen on the runway upon the death of George VI. HM's reply: 'Yes, a sad day but a good flight.'GIN1138 said:
They were all in tears in Downing St. On Friday morning... Can't imagine Churchill having an emotional breakdown like that... He'd have told Cameron to have a glass of whisky (or five) and pull himself together!Stark_Dawning said:Now I'm not saying Dave is the next Churchill, but if he can hang around and salvage something from the Brexit aftermath then surely he'll be up there.
Her current numbering comes from the odd compromise of taking the higher post-nominal of English or Scottish numbering, I think?0 -
My Scottish friend, who lives just outside Edinburgh and is up to date with things Scottish, strongly supports independence - though he is expecting it would cause a catastrophic collapse in living standards. He feels the crash will restore Scottish values of hard work.0
-
Could it be that no-one wants to be Prime minister.0
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No he said Boris, Gove and Farage had a mandate to lead the country and negotiate Brexit. He also said pro Europeans should come together to form a new allianceanotherDave said:
Keep voting till you get the right answer.MP_SE said:Heseltine will be on Sky News shortly. Should be good.
0 -
-
The leavers were in a minority and still are.HYUFD said:
The Tory members will pick a BREXITEER by a landslide to ensure out means OutSouthamObserver said:
It's another reason why the Tories may want to choose a Remainer to be their next leader. It will be much easier for such a person to do that kind of deal and then sell it.Alanbrooke said:
Oddly like you SO I still dont believe we'll leave. Cameron was stupid to reject associate membership which is something most brits would vote for. I suspect we'll end up with a classic fudge. Watching the Germans theyre slowly realisng they have a series of problems too. If Cameron had stayed in place I think we'd be heading for EUref 2 by now but he legged it.SouthamObserver said:
In a strange kind of way I am enjssible.Theuniondivvie said:
Thanks.SouthamObserver said:
It makes no sense to me. What would Westminster actually gain from that? It just smacks of some kind of misplaced British/English nationalism. English and Welsh voters have completely changed the union settlement Scots endorsed two years ago. Scots have every right to revisit their decision.Theuniondivvie said:
Come, come, Luckyguy and various other PB Brexiteers have said it ain't happening. That's good enough for me.SouthamObserver said:
It would be insane to try to. Not only anti-democratic, but also entirely self-defeating - both in Scotland and internationally.Lowlander said:On Daily Politics Scotland (only just catching up, apologies if already posted) Fluffy Mundell refused to commit to blocking a second Indyref.
I think that is good enough to say that the UK government will not try to stop one.
On a side note, Sturgeon is going to run rings round Boris. You are very lucky to have her. I was never a fan, but she has shown extraordinary leadership and political skill since Friday. Now I am deeply envious. Good luck to you all.
I realise things are not turning out the way you might want, so your good opinion is all the more appreciated.0 -
I meet the ordinary "man in the street" so to speak every day of my working life. I know what they were saying. There was only one thing they wanted to talk about and were talking about and it was immigration.Alanbrooke said:
That's about as credible as saying all remainers want unlimited immigration from across the world.SquareRoot said:Alanbrooke said:
Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.SquareRoot said:
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..GIN1138 said:
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.SquareRoot said:
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .HYUFD said:Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
You mean in a range from zero immigrants to negative immigration0 -
Rome has just elected a Mayor from the Eurosceptic 5☆SouthamObserver said:0 -
Only the Tories still to join by looks of it , Lib Dems in , Labour nearly there but not admitting it and Tories missing on field of battle so far.Theuniondivvie said:
It's going to be the Remain in the EU campaign by the looks of it..GIN1138 said:
We all think Nicola's great on here.JackW said:
Hello MikeK. Nice to see you back, now do behave.MikeK said:
Are you alright JackW, how are you, and has your ARSE taken a tumble now we are in the Brexit period? You never thought that would happen, did you?JackW said:
I knew Ted Heath would sack him. Do you think Ted will win the upcoming General Election and take us into the Common Market?RodCrosby said:Powell has gone...
I'm clinging on like grim death so to speak. Something of a medical miracle having had more close shaves than a Turkish barbers cut-throat razor.
On BREXIT the irony is that UKIP having given birth to the referendum genie will see the first two letters of its title disappear as Scotland exits down the line.
An independent Scotland looms large, the more so as Nicola Sturgeon runs rings around her opponents. She really is a quite remarkable political operator.
Will you be hitting the LEAVE campaign trail with Malc in due course?
If played correctly it is hard to see how they can fail given the kamikaze trends down south.
We will see soon if Ruthie is a leader or a sock puppet.0 -
That was the theory posited in the Guardian.FrankBooth said:Could it be that no-one wants to be Prime minister.
A Brexit PM is such a toxic gig that Boris doesn't want it, and Dave won't do it0 -
"Realignment" alert?HYUFD said:
No he said Boris, Gove and Farage had a mandate to lead the country and negotiate Brexit. He also said pro Europeans should come together to form a new allianceanotherDave said:
Keep voting till you get the right answer.MP_SE said:Heseltine will be on Sky News shortly. Should be good.
0 -
He'd just been humiliated!!!CopperSulphate said:
I don't see why Cameron losing a referendum meant he couldn't stay on. Would have been the best person to bring the country together after the vote IMO.Monksfield said:
What part of this don't you understand:steve_garner said:Since when did being criticised exonerate a PM from a gross dereliction of his duty?
Monksfield said:
That was before he was rubbished by a bunch of charlatans and snake oil salesmen.steve_garner said:Cameron promised the country a referendum and delivered one. He then said that irrespective of the result he would stay as PM and implement the will of the people. He was crystal clear about that. If currently there is an absence of a detailed plan for leaving it's Cameron's fault alone.
And most brexiteers on here.
Cameron lost. He had no option but to resign and did the honourable thing. His duty is now to hold the fort until the Tories elect a replacement. That contest will have to centre on how the contestants would address the issue of A50. And will take place against the unravelling of the claims made by the leave campaign and highly visible negative impacts on our economy.
The winner will be the person who has to clear up the mess. They may call a GE to deliver the mandate they need.0 -
Plainly, this site is experiencing a collective nervous breakdown.0
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yes it's quite interesting atm our institutions which preach leadership appear to have produced a duff batch. Where is George ?GIN1138 said:0 -
Maybe HMQ could take over for a bit?FrankBooth said:Could it be that no-one wants to be Prime minister.
0 -
Leaving a 90 year old woman in a palace, in charge of this festered isle.FrankBooth said:Could it be that no-one wants to be Prime minister.
0 -
And why was that ?SquareRoot said:
I meet the ordinary "man in the street" so to speak every day of my working life. I know what they were saying. There was only one thing they wanted to talk about and were talking about and it was immigration.Alanbrooke said:
That's about as credible as saying all remainers want unlimited immigration from across the world.SquareRoot said:Alanbrooke said:
Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.SquareRoot said:
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..GIN1138 said:
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.SquareRoot said:
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .HYUFD said:Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
You mean in a range from zero immigrants to negative immigration0 -
To be fair to Cameron, if he'd known he was going to cock it up, he could have resigned on Friday morning, given us all a V-sign and then announced ... "I ordered the Civil Service to make no contingency plans, and I've resigned us from the EU as of now, so my party had better get moving."
But he's staying on for three months, so in October, the new PM will start negotiating. Until then, Dave's still in charge and no one can do anything without his say so.
I suspect he'll be over his grieving process by Monday and will facilitate new negotiations. The new PM will take over then and carry on. The exact details of the new trade deal will depend on a complicated game of poker - and the assumption that we have an intact EU to deal with. I predict an EUEXIT.
Most Remainers (the adult ones) will swiftly come to terms with the new reality. The younger ones will take a little longer and may need to be kept away from open windows and sharp cutlery for a while.
A brave new world awaits. Rejoice.
0 -
Nothing to see here
@diar_fattah: A community pharmacist friend of mine up north was asked by a patient yesterday "have u packed ur bags yet? I voted for all u to leave"0 -
Doomed I tell you DoomedMonksfield said:
Shall we wait and see? Petrol back up at £1.30, interest rate rises, the £ at E1.15 and the FTSE back at 5200 will wake a few folk up.david_herdson said:
They've made their decisions. Either they're grown up enough to be entitled to a vote or they're not. Thursday saw the biggest UK turnout in British polls since 1992: people wanted to be engaged in a way they have not been in a generation. That decision must now be implemented.Monksfield said:
Do keep living in fantasy world... Watch how the markets react tomorrow to this weekends shitstorm.....Indigo said:
Christ on a bike do we really have to spell it out in words of one syllable ?Monksfield said:Instead, as we watch the City decamp to the Eurozone, Johnson and Gove are ultimately going to have to fess up to the British people that it was all a game of political bait and switch that got out of hand, there was no plan, that they didn't appreciate the magnitude of the consequences for our economy, and that we simply can't afford to spend the next dozen years untangling our affairs from Europe.
Buffoons, the both of them.
Johnson is not in the government and may well never be in the government, Gove is Justice Secretary, but may well not be on Monday, if the Tories elect say May as the next PM neither of them will be responsible for anything.
There is no "Leave" there is no "Remain" the campaigns are over, the people have spoken, it is up to the elected government, currently headed by D. Cameron Esq to make the best of the current situation until such time as either the Tories elect a new leader, or a general election is called.
Why should Cameron take responsibility for an outcome he passionately opposed. The people have spoken but I'd be highly surprised if they get the outcome they expect.
Because the campaigns are not finished by any chalk. Before A50 is signed the remainers can and will and indeed should point to every iterative consequence that flows from this vote.
The people have been lied to and deceived - that will become increasingly obvious to all.
There is a question of What Comes Next. It's a complex one and one that it's best to let parliament decide. But Leave means leave.
As for the people being deceived, Project Fear wasn't so called without reason. It's not their fault if they didn't believe it.0 -
She obviously missed the previous two months.SouthamObserver said:0 -
I have heard of that - well before my time, obviously.malcolmg said:
David , we already had an Elizabeth so she is II to Scotland , only I for the UK. You may not remember but many post boxes were burned years ago for that very reasondavid_herdson said:
Would she be renumbered as Elizabeth I (or just Elizabeth) in an independent Scotland?malcolmg said:
GIN, she will still be Elizabeth II of ScotlandGIN1138 said:
She certainly had a smile on her face on Friday morning... She might be getting a bit concerned about what's going on with Scotland though?TCPoliticalBetting said:
HMQ probably pleased to get her country back?GIN1138 said:
Now HMQ is the woman to tell Cameron to pull himself together... She may already have done so (several times)Stark_Dawning said:
Not so. Apparently Churchill was nearly speechless and overcome with tears when greeting the Queen on the runway upon the death of George VI. HM's reply: 'Yes, a sad day but a good flight.'GIN1138 said:
They were all in tears in Downing St. On Friday morning... Can't imagine Churchill having an emotional breakdown like that... He'd have told Cameron to have a glass of whisky (or five) and pull himself together!Stark_Dawning said:Now I'm not saying Dave is the next Churchill, but if he can hang around and salvage something from the Brexit aftermath then surely he'll be up there.
Her current numbering comes from the odd compromise of taking the higher post-nominal of English or Scottish numbering, I think?
But Scotland hasn't had a queen regnant named Elizabeth before (only an Anne, a Margaret and two Maries, I think?)0 -
Mulhotra's resignation is significant. I think the kaleidoscope will shift several times this week.
Meanwhile, the voters are interesting:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3660294/May-Tory-stop-Boris-PM-poll-shows-emerges-1-1million-people-regret-voting-Leave.html
May overhauling Boris among Tory voters is sensational - but does it reflect members? The buyers' remorse movement looks substantial too, not yet enough to change the result but it's early days. I really don't remember any more turbulent time in British politics, including Black Wednesday and Iraq.
By the way, someone here the other day was bemoaning the lack of interesting new elections to bet on for a while. Westminster has listened to him!0 -
Interesting
@jasmith93: Ian McNicol won't put Corbyn on the ballot paper without the PLP, according do @stephenkb https://t.co/Sumebr7iKq https://t.co/krezF4Sob80 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
Said before the vote the margin might be as important as the decision. Seems to be that way. It's not merely a knotty problem, but a Gordian Knotty problem.
I do wonder if we'll end up with a snap election.
So far, only two things seem to unite the nation:
1) contempt for those who voted Leave but didn't actually want us to Leave
2) laughing at Ronaldo's tantrums0 -
because they don't want free movement and they want to keep immigrants out of the Uk.Alanbrooke said:
And why was that ?SquareRoot said:
I meet the ordinary "man in the street" so to speak every day of my working life. I know what they were saying. There was only one thing they wanted to talk about and were talking about and it was immigration.Alanbrooke said:
That's about as credible as saying all remainers want unlimited immigration from across the world.SquareRoot said:Alanbrooke said:
Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.SquareRoot said:
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..GIN1138 said:
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.SquareRoot said:
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .HYUFD said:Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
You mean in a range from zero immigrants to negative immigration0 -
Not me and Southam says he's excited. If only people would see the bigger picture - there is a populist revolt across the western world and England is no different. Perhaps immigration is slightly less of an issue in Scotland.Sean_F said:Plainly, this site is experiencing a collective nervous breakdown.
0 -
Wake me up when someone formally proposed it, a new part/alliance name and everything.GIN1138 said:
"Realignment" alert?HYUFD said:
No he said Boris, Gove and Farage had a mandate to lead the country and negotiate Brexit. He also said pro Europeans should come together to form a new allianceanotherDave said:
Keep voting till you get the right answer.MP_SE said:Heseltine will be on Sky News shortly. Should be good.
0 -
She may call it that, but she believes the best interests of Scotland are served by being anything but independent. She wants to deny Scots any part of the independence that the British (with or without Scots) can now look forward to.DavidL said:
Unfortunately she believes the best interests of Scotland are served by being independent. Otherwise she is absolutely right.Lowlander said:I would urge everyone to listen to this 30 second clip. This is what a real leader sounds like.
https://twitter.com/MeanwhileScotia/status/7470366671444459530 -
I'm unsure that Labour are thinking rationally, right now.HYUFD said:
He will go only to be replaced by McDonnell, Labour would be mad to elect a social democratic europhile after the public have voted Leave, if some Labour MPs want that they can join the LDs. The Corbyn/McDonnell wing is in charge at least until the next electionSeanT said:I called the referendum wrong but I predicted this, in the event of Brexit: that Labour elite would be so furious they'd mount a coup, feeling they have nothing left to lose.
Corbyn must surely go.
Most of my Corbynite Labour friends now regret electing him as leader, FWIW0 -
I fear that the way the UK luck is going at the moment, it wouldn't be totally surprising if we find ourselves with Charles III before very long.OUT said:
Leaving a 90 year old woman in a palace, in charge of this festered isle.FrankBooth said:Could it be that no-one wants to be Prime minister.
0 -
He lost a vote big deal, he needs to get over it and do the right thing for the country.Monksfield said:
He'd just been humiliated!!!CopperSulphate said:
I don't see why Cameron losing a referendum meant he couldn't stay on. Would have been the best person to bring the country together after the vote IMO.Monksfield said:
What part of this don't you understand:steve_garner said:Since when did being criticised exonerate a PM from a gross dereliction of his duty?
Monksfield said:
That was before he was rubbished by a bunch of charlatans and snake oil salesmen.steve_garner said:Cameron promised the country a referendum and delivered one. He then said that irrespective of the result he would stay as PM and implement the will of the people. He was crystal clear about that. If currently there is an absence of a detailed plan for leaving it's Cameron's fault alone.
And most brexiteers on here.
Cameron lost. He had no option but to resign and did the honourable thing. His duty is now to hold the fort until the Tories elect a replacement. That contest will have to centre on how the contestants would address the issue of A50. And will take place against the unravelling of the claims made by the leave campaign and highly visible negative impacts on our economy.
The winner will be the person who has to clear up the mess. They may call a GE to deliver the mandate they need.0 -
https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/747007578299842560
Go Jeremy, get the bastards.
They know they don't have a chance to beat you in a leadership election.0 -
and why would that be ?SquareRoot said:
because they don't want free movement and they want to keep immigrants out of the Uk.Alanbrooke said:
And why was that ?SquareRoot said:
I meet the ordinary "man in the street" so to speak every day of my working life. I know what they were saying. There was only one thing they wanted to talk about and were talking about and it was immigration.Alanbrooke said:
That's about as credible as saying all remainers want unlimited immigration from across the world.SquareRoot said:Alanbrooke said:
Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.SquareRoot said:
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..GIN1138 said:
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.SquareRoot said:
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .HYUFD said:Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
You mean in a range from zero immigrants to negative immigration0 -
A few weeks ago I suggested that after Leave won the future of British politics would be entirely up in the air. I underestimated it - we're not far away from a constitutional crisis.
I think Cameron has to ask for his cabinet to resign, and appoint a unity cabinet consisting of Leavers from all parties. It would take the toxicity out of his remaining months.
The only alternative seems to be for the Tory party to crown a temporary leader whilst Cameron remains as PM. Lord Howard has done that job before. Would be tremendous at it too.0
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