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I am sure he doesn't. Just they are really pouring the bucket of cold sick over him. Given how much support they have given him over the years, I wasn't expecting the both barrels "you lazy f##ker cutting and running when there is hard work to do" headline.Stark_Dawning said:
Why would he care?FrancisUrquhart said:Crickey the Currant Bun giving Cameron a kicking tomorrow, right in the Junckers.
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Don't forget Wales!rottenborough said:
I think many Scots would say tonight that it is us in england who has done the "going".Pro_Rata said:
I would like Scotland to stay but, if this goes ahead, I could no longer argue for it.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Anyway, I've a Scottish grandfather and would look to dual-passport.0 -
We're trying to have a sensible discussion here. Go away. You're boring.SeanT said:WE ARE FREE. WE ARE A FREE PEOPLE. FREE
Nothing, but nothing, will ever compare to this
FREE
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@rottenborough it's not a proper brandy, more an eau de vie in which you steep walnuts for months and spiced. Wet walnuts, which you get at this time of year, are very juicy (and stain skin, as everyone who remembers children's fairytales will recall).0
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Kirsty Wark is one of the high heid yins of the Labour mafia in Scotland. If she's going there that would be very interesting. I've seen others, McLeish I mentioned earlier but also social rights lawyer Mike Dailly and other inner circle non-politician SLabbers all seem to be making pro-Yes noises.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.0 -
Imagine if he had come back from the EU talks and said this is the deal they are offering. I don't think it is enough, but its up to you. History would be very very different.Sunil_Prasannan said:
If only he had urged a LEAVE vote, he would still be PM...AndyJS said:Cameron has failed to stay in Downing Street as long as John Major.
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It's done it's time. We should celebrate what it was and all that it achieved, and we'll always be more than just neighbours, but England and Scotland are now on totally different trajectories. It makes no sense to stay together.RealBritain said:
It is sad.Thrak said:
24th June 2016, forever to be remembered as the day the UK died. After all these centuries its heartbreaking. All the people who fought and died for it, bestriding the world as an empire. Now to end with its destroyers haggling over its twitching corpse.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
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Having rejected their deal (which was pretty crap), I can only see them helping in that situation if a PM essentially publicly promises to sign up to everything from now on and stop causing trouble.SouthamObserver said:
I did say we'd vote Leave and maybe then never end up Leaving. There's still a chance, but I think the Europeans would need some persuading. They're clearly very unhappy with how this has been handled by the UK government and by the Leave campaign.IanB2 said:EPG said:
How long can the UK stall for, before the wait for Article 50 becomes an implicit REMAIN? Would electing a pro-REMAIN majority HoC, which goes no further in departure negotiations, count as abrogating the referendum?IanB2 said:Alanbrooke said:
The EU nabobs want a fast negotiation, so they either have to give us most of what we want or have us hang around like a bid smell creating discontent among the underlingsBenedictWhite said:
With regret I have to say this is a master stroke of genius negotiation that could not have been pulled off before the referendum and his resigning. Had it been possible, then he could (would) have won it.Alanbrooke said:LOL
I have to hand it to Cameron, his cant negotiate until October is REALLY pissing the EU elite off
festina lente
genius - why couldnt Dave have negotiated like that ?
And even if the strategy doesn't work and we do eventually leave, it gives the EU more time to adjust to the new reality, and discourages other countries from thinking that leaving is an easy thing to do.
But no Tory PM is ever going to be able to pass an idea like ignoring the referendum, so it'd have to be a Labour PM after winning a GE, and we probably won't have one, and how would Labour win it anyway.
But in any case the chance of us nor formally leaving now are, as you say, a chance, but I think we'd agree very slight. It'd have to be a pretty effing brutal collapse for the public view to change, and no guarantee it would (it might harden views), in a short time too.
No, we'll be gone, just a question of how long we can stall to get organised before the formal negotiations.0 -
Sounds top stuff. I seem to recall vaguely having rather a lot of something similar in Dordogne made from chestnuts. But maybe it was walnuts. It is all hazy...AlastairMeeks said:@rottenborough it's not a proper brandy, more an eau de vie in which you steep walnuts for months and spiced. Wet walnuts, which you get at this time of year, are very juicy (and stain skin, as everyone who remembers children's fairytales will recall).
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What's the earliest date for a Scottish referendum? May as well get it over with.0
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There;s no work for him to do - how would he be able to do the job, there's no way.FrancisUrquhart said:
I am sure he doesn't. Just they are really pouring the bucket of cold sick over him. Given how much support they have given him over the years, I wasn't expecting the both barrels "you lazy f##ker cutting and running when there is hard work to do" headline.Stark_Dawning said:
Why would he care?FrancisUrquhart said:Crickey the Currant Bun giving Cameron a kicking tomorrow, right in the Junckers.
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I just need to understand this. Wales which was as heavily Brexit as England will vote for independence because it doesn't like the English or because it doesn't like the result?SouthamObserver said:
Without doubt. And it's best done as quickly as possible. Brexit would become Wexit.AndyJS said:
They're going to do it this time I think. The UK is over.SouthamObserver said:
Makes sense. Brexit is a massive material change. As a unionist that saddens me, but I can't blame Scots for wanting to try something different.Lowlander said:Former Labour First Minister Henry McLeish has come out for Scottish Independence on Scotland Tonight.
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I do want to acquire a proper still. They're legal to own in Hungary (a recognition of reality in country life here).0
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This isn't new. A guy on R5 a few hours ago said (I think this is right) Scotland have voted differently to England since 197x (sure PB experts can fill in the exact date).SouthamObserver said:
It's done it's time. We should celebrate what it was and all that it achieved, and we'll always be more than just neighbours, but England and Scotland are now on totally different trajectories. It makes no sense to stay together.RealBritain said:
It is sad.Thrak said:
24th June 2016, forever to be remembered as the day the UK died. After all these centuries its heartbreaking. All the people who fought and died for it, bestriding the world as an empire. Now to end with its destroyers haggling over its twitching corpse.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.0 -
Typical Leave mentality then: those who opposed their mess still have to sort it out.FrancisUrquhart said:
I am sure he doesn't. Just they are really pouring the bucket of cold sick over him. Given how much support they have given him over the years, I wasn't expecting the both barrels "you lazy f##ker cutting and running when there is hard work to do" headline.Stark_Dawning said:
Why would he care?FrancisUrquhart said:Crickey the Currant Bun giving Cameron a kicking tomorrow, right in the Junckers.
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That's a sobering statistic.RodCrosby said:Just noticed that 32,161 more people voted to LEAVE yesterday than voted to remain in 1975. Biggest vote for anything in our history.
Cherry on the cake...0 -
I am not sure what you are trying to say. Two thirds voted to Remain.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Not sure, taking this into account:surbiton said:I have heard that the Northern Irish are applying for Ireland/EU passports they are entitled to. Not the usual suspects, the Nationalists but Protestants.
Can anyone enlighten us why would they want to do that ?
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/7463304145921884160 -
If we could at least federalise or something.TwistedFireStopper said:
And all the people who fought and died against it. Recent history has seen the rebirth of many Eastern European nations. Who are you to deny the Scots, Northern Irish, Welsh or English that right?Thrak said:
24th June 2016, forever to be remembered as the day the UK died. After all these centuries its heartbreaking. All the people who fought and died for it, bestriding the world as an empire. Now to end with its destroyers haggling over its twitching corpse.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Such an irony that Ukip heralded the death of the UK.
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Fair point. But I suspect the Welsh are not too keen on a non-english federated celtic bloc within the EU right now.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't forget Wales!rottenborough said:
I think many Scots would say tonight that it is us in england who has done the "going".Pro_Rata said:
I would like Scotland to stay but, if this goes ahead, I could no longer argue for it.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Anyway, I've a Scottish grandfather and would look to dual-passport.0 -
I think they know the game is up. You can't keep trying to revive something that wants to die. And it will be exciting in Scotland. Very tough, too; but exciting. Why not?Lowlander said:
Kirsty Wark is one of the high heid yins of the Labour mafia in Scotland. If she's going there that would be very interesting. I've seen others, McLeish I mentioned earlier but also social rights lawyer Mike Dailly and other inner circle non-politician SLabbers all seem to be making pro-Yes noises.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
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Wales may be returning to its pre-20th century status as a region of England.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't forget Wales!rottenborough said:
I think many Scots would say tonight that it is us in england who has done the "going".Pro_Rata said:
I would like Scotland to stay but, if this goes ahead, I could no longer argue for it.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Anyway, I've a Scottish grandfather and would look to dual-passport.0 -
Leave always said don't listen to experts they are always wrong particularly about the risks of Brexit.SouthamObserver said:The level of Leave unpreparedness is extraordinary and terrifying. It may have involved talking to some experts, I guess, but surely it would have been worth it. This was never a game, but Boris and Gove today looked like it was the first time they realised how serious this all is.
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I am not arguing against that. I think him going was the only option. My comment was more on the hostility of the Sun given the history and also they were on the winning side. All the other papers go for the teary eyed picture or ignore Cameron going from the front page.kle4 said:
There;s no work for him to do - how would he be able to do the job, there's no way.FrancisUrquhart said:
I am sure he doesn't. Just they are really pouring the bucket of cold sick over him. Given how much support they have given him over the years, I wasn't expecting the both barrels "you lazy f##ker cutting and running when there is hard work to do" headline.Stark_Dawning said:
Why would he care?FrancisUrquhart said:Crickey the Currant Bun giving Cameron a kicking tomorrow, right in the Junckers.
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SeanT said:
Oh. Whoops. Sorry Did you LOSE???Stark_Dawning said:
We're trying to have a sensible discussion here. Go away. You're boring.SeanT said:WE ARE FREE. WE ARE A FREE PEOPLE. FREE
Nothing, but nothing, will ever compare to this
FREE
</blockquote
Yes. And that gives me the indistupable right to be rude to you bleeders!0 -
@SouthamObserver
'I did say we'd vote Leave and maybe then never end up Leaving. There's still a chance, but I think the Europeans would need some persuading. They're clearly very unhappy with how this has been handled by the UK government and by the Leave campaign.'
Joining EFTA would be down to EFTA agreement & not the EU.0 -
Today they will ring their bells ( though we may skip even that bit ) but tomorrow they will wring their hands !Richard_Nabavi said:
Well, quite. I have a lot of time for Dan - or had until now - but that is a disgraceful position. Is he now claiming to have had nothing to do with those leaflets and the campaign?Scott_P said:@DanHannanMEP: A lot of Remainers are now raging at me because I *don't* want to cut immigration sharply. There really is no pleasing some people.
@jamesmatesitv: @DanHannanMEP I suspect they may be raging at you cos yr Leave campaign clearly said it did. Was there a false prospectus being offered?
That is indeed the issue he now has to deal with
The Vote Leave Campaign Committee is the governing body that will meet weekly to set the campaign strategy for Vote Leave
...
Dan Hannan MEP
...
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/campaign0 -
Probably too tired to care. I gather he has gone to Chequers for one of his last trips. I'm sure Steven Crabb will enjoy taking residence there in October.Stark_Dawning said:
Why would he care?FrancisUrquhart said:Crickey the Currant Bun giving Cameron a kicking tomorrow, right in the Junckers.
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Yep, it would need a GE. But six or 12 months down the line the EU may look a lot more enticing. The economic headwinds have not begun to blow yet. But they surely will.kle4 said:
Having rejected their deal (which was pretty crap), I can only see them helping in that situation if a PM essentially publicly promises to sign up to everything from now on and stop causing trouble.SouthamObserver said:
I did say we'd vote Leave and maybe then never end up Leaving. There's still a chance, but I think the Europeans would need some persuading. They're clearly very unhappy with how this has been handled by the UK government and by the Leave campaign.IanB2 said:EPG said:
How long can the UK stall for, before the wait for Article 50 becomes an implicit REMAIN? Would electing a pro-REMAIN majority HoC, which goes no further in departure negotiations, count as abrogating the referendum?IanB2 said:Alanbrooke said:
The EU nabobs want a fast negotiation, so they either have to give us most of what we want or have us hang around like a bid smell creating discontent among the underlingsBenedictWhite said:
With regret I have to say this is a master stroke of genius negotiation that could not have been pulled off before the referendum and his resigning. Had it been possible, then he could (would) have won it.Alanbrooke said:LOL
I have to hand it to Cameron, his cant negotiate until October is REALLY pissing the EU elite off
festina lente
genius - why couldnt Dave have negotiated like that ?
And even if the strategy doesn't work and we do eventually leave, it gives the EU more time to adjust to the new reality, and discourages other countries from thinking that leaving is an easy thing to do.
But no Tory PM is ever going to be able to pass an idea like ignoring the referendum, so it'd have to be a Labour PM after winning a GE, and we probably won't have one, and how would Labour win it anyway.
But in any case the chance of us nor formally leaving now are, as you say, a chance, but I think we'd agree very slight. It'd have to be a pretty effing brutal collapse for the public view to change, and no guarantee it would (it might harden views), in a short time too.
No, we'll be gone, just a question of how long we can stall to get organised before the formal negotiations.
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Without wishing to sound condescending I think people are being tired and emotional. Lets see how people feel next week.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
There is a lot of cobblers flying around, for example, apparently milky ways (Mars) can't be sold outside of the EU and... Nandos is closing, Immediately. Seriously, they will liquidate their position now. Oh dear.0 -
Has anybody informed the Welsh they weren't voting to leave the UK yet?0
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If the £ stays down here for more than a week or two, the first return on yesterday's vote that people are going to see is a very sharp rise in petrol and diesel pump prices...0
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Look at the graph - the most heavily LEAVE-leaning seats had Unionist majorities at the Assembly election.surbiton said:
I am not sure what you are trying to say. Two thirds voted to Remain.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Not sure, taking this into account:surbiton said:I have heard that the Northern Irish are applying for Ireland/EU passports they are entitled to. Not the usual suspects, the Nationalists but Protestants.
Can anyone enlighten us why would they want to do that ?
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/7463304145921884160 -
LOL. They were distracted by Gareth Bale.FrancisUrquhart said:Has anybody informed the Welsh they weren't voting to leave the UK yet?
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No, Wales and England would leave the EU.BenedictWhite said:
I just need to understand this. Wales which was as heavily Brexit as England will vote for independence because it doesn't like the English or because it doesn't like the result?SouthamObserver said:
Without doubt. And it's best done as quickly as possible. Brexit would become Wexit.AndyJS said:
They're going to do it this time I think. The UK is over.SouthamObserver said:
Makes sense. Brexit is a massive material change. As a unionist that saddens me, but I can't blame Scots for wanting to try something different.Lowlander said:Former Labour First Minister Henry McLeish has come out for Scottish Independence on Scotland Tonight.
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At the very least there should be a constitutional convention to discuss a post-brexit reality (with the presumption Scotland would be in it, but I think we know that won't happen) - cut out the bull and say we have to sort out the HoL, do we need a new voting system, do we need to revamp the devolution set up, etc etc. You could talk for decades on the issues and we have, but Brexit is on us in 2 years plus change, and a settlement to address any other issues decisively should be attempted, f*ck it, and put it to a referendum too.Thrak said:
If we could at least federalise or something.TwistedFireStopper said:
And all the people who fought and died against it. Recent history has seen the rebirth of many Eastern European nations. Who are you to deny the Scots, Northern Irish, Welsh or English that right?Thrak said:
24th June 2016, forever to be remembered as the day the UK died. After all these centuries its heartbreaking. All the people who fought and died for it, bestriding the world as an empire. Now to end with its destroyers haggling over its twitching corpse.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Such an irony that Ukip heralded the death of the UK.
Gods, I've just realised if Scotland waits to have their referendum during the article 50 negotiation, say toward the end, we'd be looking at 2 years of Euro negations, then several years of rUk vs Scotland negotiation - and probably will have an early GE in there somewhere. We're not going to get much governance done in the next 4-5 years.0 -
You can buy Milky Way in the USABenedictWhite said:
Without wishing to sound condescending I think people are being tired and emotional. Lets see how people feel next week.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
There is a lot of cobblers flying around, for example, apparently milky ways (Mars) can't be sold outside of the EU and... Nandos is closing, Immediately. Seriously, they will liquidate their position now. Oh dear.0 -
Would Scotland be truly independent inside the EU?0
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Some form of Federal structure between Scotland and Northern Ireland with the Queen as head of state within the EU would appear possible.
For most Unionists, the union with Scotland is more important than that with England, it's only 90 mins on the ferry between Glasgow and Belfast.
Give them a little bit of scale too.0 -
I can't help thinking that a lot of LEAVErs are raging at him as wellScott_P said:@DanHannanMEP: A lot of Remainers are now raging at me because I *don't* want to cut immigration sharply.
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Enjoy it while you can. This one aint over yet...Stark_Dawning said:SeanT said:
Oh. Whoops. Sorry Did you LOSE???Stark_Dawning said:
We're trying to have a sensible discussion here. Go away. You're boring.SeanT said:WE ARE FREE. WE ARE A FREE PEOPLE. FREE
Nothing, but nothing, will ever compare to this
FREE0 -
Anything that keeps Boris quiet and prevents him grandstanding round the world!!kle4 said:
At the very least there should be a constitutional convention to discuss a post-brexit reality (with the presumption Scotland would be in it, but I think we know that won't happen) - cut out the bull and say we have to sort out the HoL, do we need a new voting system, do we need to revamp the devolution set up, etc etc. You could talk for decades on the issues and we have, but Brexit is on us in 2 years plus change, and a settlement to address any other issues decisively should be attempted, f*ck it, and put it to a referendum too.Thrak said:
If we could at least federalise or something.TwistedFireStopper said:
And all the people who fought and died against it. Recent history has seen the rebirth of many Eastern European nations. Who are you to deny the Scots, Northern Irish, Welsh or English that right?Thrak said:
24th June 2016, forever to be remembered as the day the UK died. After all these centuries its heartbreaking. All the people who fought and died for it, bestriding the world as an empire. Now to end with its destroyers haggling over its twitching corpse.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Such an irony that Ukip heralded the death of the UK.
Gods, I've just realised if Scotland waits to have their referendum during the article 50 negotiation, say toward the end, we'd be looking at 2 years of Euro negations, then several years of rUk vs Scotland negotiation - and probably will have an early GE in there somewhere. We're not going to get much governance done in the next 4-5 years.
0 -
Interesting casual chain on populism. Clegg on Tuition Fees, Cameron on the EU ref then Boris on Leave. Three politicians destroyed by making populist pledges they assumed they'd never have to keep. The last two caused the destruction of the former.0
-
I'm late to the party having had big work day today, so sorry if going over covered ground.
But, if the timing of Brexit and Scottish independence is synchronised, could Scotland pre-apply to take an option on being the successor state who will take on the continuation of British EU membership, on British terms, rather than applying to join the EU as an independent country? Serious improvement from the EU terms on offer in IndyRef#1. The EU leaders seemed to be making encouraging noises towards Scotland, suggesting they may be amenable on trade, but Scotland will be their pound of flesh from the UK.
Also, yes, I fully think the UK has been given Brexit on 90 days sale or return. Dave could have real fun with this - make Boris chancellor, you bet! Just let's not go out of our way to evade that turmoil. I couldn't see it before, didn't want it before, but why not give the people their bad trip then referendum them once more and see if they say "Again, again"0 -
US Milky Ways aren't the same. US Milky Way Midnights, mmmmhhhh.Tim_B said:
You can buy Milky Way in the USABenedictWhite said:
Without wishing to sound condescending I think people are being tired and emotional. Lets see how people feel next week.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
There is a lot of cobblers flying around, for example, apparently milky ways (Mars) can't be sold outside of the EU and... Nandos is closing, Immediately. Seriously, they will liquidate their position now. Oh dear.0 -
At the moment it looks like the only certain consequence is that the UK will split up.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, it would need a GE. But six or 12 months down the line the EU may look a lot more enticing. The economic headwinds have not begun to blow yet. But they surely will.
If the EU itself is convulsed to an extent that some fundamental reforms that satisfy the English objections then it may, just may, be possible for England & Wales to end up remaining, but as a different country in an organisation with a different character.0 -
Is is truly independent inside the UK?Sunil_Prasannan said:Would Scotland be truly independent inside the EU?
0 -
Throw a nuclear device into the discussion why don't you. Blimey.Lowlander said:
Wales may be returning to its pre-20th century status as a region of England.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't forget Wales!rottenborough said:
I think many Scots would say tonight that it is us in england who has done the "going".Pro_Rata said:
I would like Scotland to stay but, if this goes ahead, I could no longer argue for it.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Anyway, I've a Scottish grandfather and would look to dual-passport.0 -
I think events will move at a dizzying pace from here. There will be no time for constitutional conventions.kle4 said:
At the very least there should be a constitutional convention to discuss a post-brexit reality (with the presumption Scotland would be in it, but I think we know that won't happen) - cut out the bull and say we have to sort out the HoL, do we need a new voting system, do we need to revamp the devolution set up, etc etc. You could talk for decades on the issues and we have, but Brexit is on us in 2 years plus change, and a settlement to address any other issues decisively should be attempted, f*ck it, and put it to a referendum too.Thrak said:
If we could at least federalise or something.TwistedFireStopper said:
And all the people who fought and died against it. Recent history has seen the rebirth of many Eastern European nations. Who are you to deny the Scots, Northern Irish, Welsh or English that right?Thrak said:
24th June 2016, forever to be remembered as the day the UK died. After all these centuries its heartbreaking. All the people who fought and died for it, bestriding the world as an empire. Now to end with its destroyers haggling over its twitching corpse.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Such an irony that Ukip heralded the death of the UK.
Gods, I've just realised if Scotland waits to have their referendum during the article 50 negotiation, say toward the end, we'd be looking at 2 years of Euro negations, then several years of rUk vs Scotland negotiation - and probably will have an early GE in there somewhere. We're not going to get much governance done in the next 4-5 years.0 -
Two hours sleep since 6.00 am on the morning of 23rd. It's time for bed. Night all!0
-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36624697RealBritain said:
That is absolutely extraordinary disingenuousness from Hannan. He knows full well exactly what the Leave campaign was promising, to precisely those voters.Scott_P said:@DanHannanMEP: A lot of Remainers are now raging at me because I *don't* want to cut immigration sharply. There really is no pleasing some people.
@jamesmatesitv: @DanHannanMEP I suspect they may be raging at you cos yr Leave campaign clearly said it did. Was there a false prospectus being offered?
That is indeed the issue he now has to deal with
Extraordinary that the predictions of resentment and anger at broken promises are already coming true, much quicker than any of us could have imagined.0 -
I think the Tories are already a zombie government even once they replace the lame duck Cameron. The chance of much legislation getting done is pretty slim as things stand.kle4 said:
At the very least there should be a constitutional convention to discuss a post-brexit reality (with the presumption Scotland would be in it, but I think we know that won't happen) - cut out the bull and say we have to sort out the HoL, do we need a new voting system, do we need to revamp the devolution set up, etc etc. You could talk for decades on the issues and we have, but Brexit is on us in 2 years plus change, and a settlement to address any other issues decisively should be attempted, f*ck it, and put it to a referendum too.
Gods, I've just realised if Scotland waits to have their referendum during the article 50 negotiation, say toward the end, we'd be looking at 2 years of Euro negations, then several years of rUk vs Scotland negotiation - and probably will have an early GE in there somewhere. We're not going to get much governance done in the next 4-5 years.
But I don't think they will risk another election. There's just too much chance they could end up worse off than they currently stand.0 -
It's possible, though I hope things do go better than the very nervous start. But I cannot see the government putting off a declaration for 12 months, not with the whole of the EU breathing down our neck to get a move on and the PM (whoever it is) treated like a leper at EU summits (I bet good money they won't get placed next to the Netherlands, any Scandinavians or Ireland at the table), so unless there's a GE in 6 months (there'll be the usual - you've changed leader so we should have an election, but Brown and Major resisted those calls with ease) it'd be too late. Doesn't matter how enticing the EU looks once the declaration is made! Barely matters nowSouthamObserver said:
Yep, it would need a GE. But six or 12 months down the line the EU may look a lot more enticing. The economic headwinds have not begun to blow yet. But they surely will.kle4 said:
HaviSouthamObserver said:
I did say we'd vote Leave and maybe then never end up Leaving. There's still a chance, but I think the Europeans would need some persuading. They're clearly very unhappy with how this has been handled by the UK government and by the Leave campaign.IanB2 said:EPG said:
How long can the UK stall for, before the wait for Article 50 becomes an implicit REMAIN? Would electing a pro-REMAIN majority HoC, which goes no further in departure negotiations, count as abrogating the referendum?IanB2 said:Alanbrooke said:
The EU nabobs want a fast negotiation, so they either have to give us most of what we want or have us hang around like a bid smell creating discontent among the underlingsBenedictWhite said:
With regret I have to say this is a master stroke of genius negotiation that could not have been pulled off before the referendum and his resigning. Had it been possible, then he could (would) have won it.Alanbrooke said:LOL
I have to hand it to Cameron, his cant negotiate until October is REALLY pissing the EU elite off
festina lente
genius - why couldnt Dave have negotiated like that ?
And even if the strategy doesn't work and we do eventually leave, it gives the EU more time to adjust to the new reality, and discourages other countries from thinking that leaving is an easy thing to do.
The nervous and shocked may have started changing their minds already, but would enough in 6 months? How would that be measured to justify a change? It's a fun mental game to think about, but there's no realistic path.
Good night - let us hope the nation, what remains of it, rises to the challenge.0 -
I suppose Boris will be able to say he vetoed Turkey.YellowSubmarine said:Interesting casual chain on populism. Clegg on Tuition Fees, Cameron on the EU ref then Boris on Leave. Three politicians destroyed by making populist pledges they assumed they'd never have to keep. The last two caused the destruction of the former.
An interesting side issue is that nobody seems to have reflected on who will be Foreign Sec in a Boris/Gove/Leadsom government.0 -
Wales voted with England.rottenborough said:
Fair point. But I suspect the Welsh are not too keen on a non-english federated celtic bloc within the EU right now.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't forget Wales!rottenborough said:
I think many Scots would say tonight that it is us in england who has done the "going".Pro_Rata said:
I would like Scotland to stay but, if this goes ahead, I could no longer argue for it.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Anyway, I've a Scottish grandfather and would look to dual-passport.0 -
You Brexit, you pays for it...IanB2 said:If the £ stays down here for more than a week or two, the first return on yesterday's vote that people are going to see is a very sharp rise in petrol and diesel pump prices...
As we now say on this site a lot.0 -
Osborne? (Seriously.)rottenborough said:
I suppose Boris will be able to say he vetoed Turkey.YellowSubmarine said:Interesting casual chain on populism. Clegg on Tuition Fees, Cameron on the EU ref then Boris on Leave. Three politicians destroyed by making populist pledges they assumed they'd never have to keep. The last two caused the destruction of the former.
An interesting side issue is that nobody seems to have reflected on who will be Foreign Sec in a Boris/Gove/Leadsom government.0 -
But the SNP want independence! Will they achieve that by re-joining Brussels?viewcode said:
Is is truly independent inside the UK?Sunil_Prasannan said:Would Scotland be truly independent inside the EU?
0 -
Can I just ask, has Scotland just had another referendum where they voted out whilst I was not looking?SouthamObserver said:
I think they know the game is up. You can't keep trying to revive something that wants to die. And it will be exciting in Scotland. Very tough, too; but exciting. Why not?Lowlander said:
Kirsty Wark is one of the high heid yins of the Labour mafia in Scotland. If she's going there that would be very interesting. I've seen others, McLeish I mentioned earlier but also social rights lawyer Mike Dailly and other inner circle non-politician SLabbers all seem to be making pro-Yes noises.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Make no mistake, Sturgeon will not hold one unless it is nailed on. Last polls suggested it wasn't.
0 -
From my brief time in Boulder, I recall that Milky Ways in the USA are the same as Mars Bars here. Our Milky Ways approximate to Three Musketeers over there.FrancisUrquhart said:
US Milky Ways aren't the same. US Milky Way Midnights, mmmmhhhh.Tim_B said:
You can buy Milky Way in the USABenedictWhite said:
Without wishing to sound condescending I think people are being tired and emotional. Lets see how people feel next week.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
There is a lot of cobblers flying around, for example, apparently milky ways (Mars) can't be sold outside of the EU and... Nandos is closing, Immediately. Seriously, they will liquidate their position now. Oh dear.0 -
Isn't coffee also priced in dollars?IanB2 said:If the £ stays down here for more than a week or two, the first return on yesterday's vote that people are going to see is a very sharp rise in petrol and diesel pump prices...
0 -
Martin Kettle:
"How was it that a modern-minded liberal Conservative leader who long ago told his party to “stop banging on about Europe” if it wanted to get back into power after three successive defeats – and who then delivered two terms in government – has himself been brought down by that same party over that same European question?"
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/david-cameron-downfall-european-tragedy0 -
Yes. And as it could be done by QMV it would not be open to any country's Veto.Pro_Rata said:
But, if the timing of Brexit and Scottish independence is synchronised, could Scotland pre-apply to take an option on being the successor state who will take on the continuation of British EU membership, on British terms, rather than applying to join the EU as an independent country?0 -
Agreed - particularly if Labour elect someone sensible. And perhaps not even then. Hope the civil servants are on their game while they're running things!Lowlander said:
I think the Tories are already a zombie government even once they replace the lame duck Cameron. The chance of much legislation getting done is pretty slim as things stand.kle4 said:
At the very least there should be a constitutional convention to discuss a post-brexit reality (with the presumption Scotland would be in it, but I think we know that won't happen) - cut out the bull and say we have to sort out the HoL, do we need a new voting system, do we need to revamp the devolution set up, etc etc. You could talk for decades on the issues and we have, but Brexit is on us in 2 years plus change, and a settlement to address any other issues decisively should be attempted, f*ck it, and put it to a referendum too.
Gods, I've just realised if Scotland waits to have their referendum during the article 50 negotiation, say toward the end, we'd be looking at 2 years of Euro negations, then several years of rUk vs Scotland negotiation - and probably will have an early GE in there somewhere. We're not going to get much governance done in the next 4-5 years.
But I don't think they will risk another election. There's just too much chance they could end up worse off than they currently stand.
Yes, a belated realisation, that. Look forward to Remain realising the £4300 was a mistake, although from their POV it was because it didn't work.IanB2 said:
Yes, probably true - one of the few good ideas Ed M had was to hold one right after he would have been elected. On reflection a missed opportunity.williamglenn said:
I think events will move at a dizzying pace from here. There will be no time for constitutional conventions.0 -
I know that a 2nd Scottish referendum has been on the cards - has the Scottish Government made moves to increase trade with Europe and break links with the English economy?0
-
All the political forces are aligning behind it. She just needs to get a pre-agreed deal with the EU on membership and the referendum will be a rubber-stamping exercise.BenedictWhite said:
Can I just ask, has Scotland just had another referendum where they voted out whilst I was not looking?SouthamObserver said:
I think they know the game is up. You can't keep trying to revive something that wants to die. And it will be exciting in Scotland. Very tough, too; but exciting. Why not?Lowlander said:
Kirsty Wark is one of the high heid yins of the Labour mafia in Scotland. If she's going there that would be very interesting. I've seen others, McLeish I mentioned earlier but also social rights lawyer Mike Dailly and other inner circle non-politician SLabbers all seem to be making pro-Yes noises.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Make no mistake, Sturgeon will not hold one unless it is nailed on. Last polls suggested it wasn't.0 -
Because the bit of the party that cared about it held out long enough for it to become the majority opinion in the country.AndyJS said:Martin Kettle:
"How was it that a modern-minded liberal Conservative leader who long ago told his party to “stop banging on about Europe” if it wanted to get back into power after three successive defeats – and who then delivered two terms in government – has himself been brought down by that same party over that same European question?"
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/david-cameron-downfall-european-tragedy0 -
I think you mean between Larne and Stranraer!asjohnstone said:Some form of Federal structure between Scotland and Northern Ireland with the Queen as head of state within the EU would appear possible.
For most Unionists, the union with Scotland is more important than that with England, it's only 90 mins on the ferry between Glasgow and Belfast.
Give them a little bit of scale too.0 -
Quite. Mars is American.Tim_B said:
You can buy Milky Way in the USABenedictWhite said:
Without wishing to sound condescending I think people are being tired and emotional. Lets see how people feel next week.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
There is a lot of cobblers flying around, for example, apparently milky ways (Mars) can't be sold outside of the EU and... Nandos is closing, Immediately. Seriously, they will liquidate their position now. Oh dear.0 -
It is very likely polls are already in the wild. The Record is going pro-Yes and will want to know how popular that position is. The Herald might want to know as well. I can easily see two or three Scottish Referendum polls next week.BenedictWhite said:
Can I just ask, has Scotland just had another referendum where they voted out whilst I was not looking?SouthamObserver said:
I think they know the game is up. You can't keep trying to revive something that wants to die. And it will be exciting in Scotland. Very tough, too; but exciting. Why not?Lowlander said:
Kirsty Wark is one of the high heid yins of the Labour mafia in Scotland. If she's going there that would be very interesting. I've seen others, McLeish I mentioned earlier but also social rights lawyer Mike Dailly and other inner circle non-politician SLabbers all seem to be making pro-Yes noises.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Make no mistake, Sturgeon will not hold one unless it is nailed on. Last polls suggested it wasn't.0 -
How dare you claim a Milky Way = Three Musketeers bar....Three Musketeers bars are infinitely better :-)Sunil_Prasannan said:
From my brief time in Boulder, I recall that Milky Ways in the USA are the same as Mars Bars here. Our Milky Ways approximate to Three Musketeers over there.FrancisUrquhart said:
US Milky Ways aren't the same. US Milky Way Midnights, mmmmhhhh.Tim_B said:
You can buy Milky Way in the USABenedictWhite said:
Without wishing to sound condescending I think people are being tired and emotional. Lets see how people feel next week.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
There is a lot of cobblers flying around, for example, apparently milky ways (Mars) can't be sold outside of the EU and... Nandos is closing, Immediately. Seriously, they will liquidate their position now. Oh dear.0 -
Things have changed since then. Unionist papers are saying she needs to call one. Apparently the SNP is getting yet another surge of signups. It's over. Unless Leave doesn't happen, but that would create an even bigger mess to the southBenedictWhite said:
Can I just ask, has Scotland just had another referendum where they voted out whilst I was not looking?SouthamObserver said:
I think they know the game is up. You can't keep trying to revive something that wants to die. And it will be exciting in Scotland. Very tough, too; but exciting. Why not?Lowlander said:
Kirsty Wark is one of the high heid yins of the Labour mafia in Scotland. If she's going there that would be very interesting. I've seen others, McLeish I mentioned earlier but also social rights lawyer Mike Dailly and other inner circle non-politician SLabbers all seem to be making pro-Yes noises.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Make no mistake, Sturgeon will not hold one unless it is nailed on. Last polls suggested it wasn't.
They profess to be happy with that level of dependence. We may not think it makes sense, but they and the Scots seem to regard Brussels as the last straw - better Brussells alone than London without Brussells.Sunil_Prasannan said:
But the SNP want independence! Will they achieve that by re-joining Brussels?viewcode said:
Is is truly independent inside the UK?Sunil_Prasannan said:Would Scotland be truly independent inside the EU?
0 -
As Remain didn't win, how their promises turn out is rather more academic than the cheaper energy, booming economy and queue-free double-staffed NHS that I am now waiting for from the leavers....kle4 said:
Agreed - particularly if Labour elect someone sensible. And perhaps not even then. Hope the civil servants are on their game while they're running things!Lowlander said:
I think the Tories are already a zombie government even once they replace the lame duck Cameron. The chance of much legislation getting done is pretty slim as things stand.kle4 said:
At the very least there should be a constitutional convention to discuss a post-brexit reality (with the presumption Scotland would be in it, but I think we know that won't happen) - cut out the bull and say we have to sort out the HoL, do we need a new voting system, do we need to revamp the devolution set up, etc etc. You could talk for decades on the issues and we have, but Brexit is on us in 2 years plus change, and a settlement to address any other issues decisively should be attempted, f*ck it, and put it to a referendum too.
Gods, I've just realised if Scotland waits to have their referendum during the article 50 negotiation, say toward the end, we'd be looking at 2 years of Euro negations, then several years of rUk vs Scotland negotiation - and probably will have an early GE in there somewhere. We're not going to get much governance done in the next 4-5 years.
But I don't think they will risk another election. There's just too much chance they could end up worse off than they currently stand.
Yes, a belated realisation, that. Look forward to Remain realising the £4300 was a mistake, although from their POV it was because it didn't work.IanB2 said:
Yes, probably true - one of the few good ideas Ed M had was to hold one right after he would have been elected. On reflection a missed opportunity.williamglenn said:
I think events will move at a dizzying pace from here. There will be no time for constitutional conventions.0 -
Why would Nandos, a South African restaurant chain be closing its doors in the UK? Are some morons on social media thinking that Nandos is Portuguese and then adding 2 and 2 and making 27?0
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NEW THREAD
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Well, yes, but as well as getting some elites on board she also has to get the actual voters. Don't forget that Cameron had most of the elites on board as well.williamglenn said:
All the political forces are aligning behind it. She just needs to get a pre-agreed deal with the EU on membership and the referendum will be a rubber-stamping exercise.BenedictWhite said:
Can I just ask, has Scotland just had another referendum where they voted out whilst I was not looking?SouthamObserver said:
I think they know the game is up. You can't keep trying to revive something that wants to die. And it will be exciting in Scotland. Very tough, too; but exciting. Why not?Lowlander said:
Kirsty Wark is one of the high heid yins of the Labour mafia in Scotland. If she's going there that would be very interesting. I've seen others, McLeish I mentioned earlier but also social rights lawyer Mike Dailly and other inner circle non-politician SLabbers all seem to be making pro-Yes noises.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Make no mistake, Sturgeon will not hold one unless it is nailed on. Last polls suggested it wasn't.0 -
I think you mean between Larne and Cairnryan!Sunil_Prasannan said:
I think you mean between Larne and Stranraer!asjohnstone said:Some form of Federal structure between Scotland and Northern Ireland with the Queen as head of state within the EU would appear possible.
For most Unionists, the union with Scotland is more important than that with England, it's only 90 mins on the ferry between Glasgow and Belfast.
Give them a little bit of scale too.0 -
Yes, but the last IndyRef was the grassroots + the SNP vs the entire Scottish and British establishment. If the next one has the rest of the Scottish establishment for Yes and the British staying out of it, there's only one way it can go. I'd bet on over 65% for Yes.BenedictWhite said:
Well, yes, but as well as getting some elites on board she also has to get the actual voters. Don't forget that Cameron had most of the elites on board as well.williamglenn said:
All the political forces are aligning behind it. She just needs to get a pre-agreed deal with the EU on membership and the referendum will be a rubber-stamping exercise.BenedictWhite said:
Can I just ask, has Scotland just had another referendum where they voted out whilst I was not looking?SouthamObserver said:
I think they know the game is up. You can't keep trying to revive something that wants to die. And it will be exciting in Scotland. Very tough, too; but exciting. Why not?Lowlander said:
Kirsty Wark is one of the high heid yins of the Labour mafia in Scotland. If she's going there that would be very interesting. I've seen others, McLeish I mentioned earlier but also social rights lawyer Mike Dailly and other inner circle non-politician SLabbers all seem to be making pro-Yes noises.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Make no mistake, Sturgeon will not hold one unless it is nailed on. Last polls suggested it wasn't.0 -
I did say "approximate to". You can get a few of these American "candy" bars in Tescos in Birmingham city centre (although not Three Musketeers!).FrancisUrquhart said:
How dare you claim a Milky Way = Three Musketeers bar....Three Musketeers bars are infinitely better :-)Sunil_Prasannan said:
From my brief time in Boulder, I recall that Milky Ways in the USA are the same as Mars Bars here. Our Milky Ways approximate to Three Musketeers over there.FrancisUrquhart said:
US Milky Ways aren't the same. US Milky Way Midnights, mmmmhhhh.Tim_B said:
You can buy Milky Way in the USABenedictWhite said:
Without wishing to sound condescending I think people are being tired and emotional. Lets see how people feel next week.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
There is a lot of cobblers flying around, for example, apparently milky ways (Mars) can't be sold outside of the EU and... Nandos is closing, Immediately. Seriously, they will liquidate their position now. Oh dear.0 -
It is true that he has been consistently in favour of freedom of movement: in fact, I pointed that out frequently. But it is also true that for the past few years he has used the phrase "controlled immigration" (or variants thereof) when asked about his desired outcome. I frequently pointed out that "controlled immigration" is a term used by pro-immigration people to get the votes of anti-immigration voters, and that by failing to *also* point out that he was pro-immigration he was being disingenious. I eventually desisted because a) nobody was listening and b) since Casino_Royale has met him it was coming across as personal. But the point was made.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hannan has always been absolutely clear that he wants to keep freedom of movement and access to the single market via an EEA type arrangement. It is the position that Robert Smithson and I have argued for on here as well. There is nothing new except to those who chose not to listen.
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I tell you what. Go to Scotland and explain why they are so mistaken. I'm sure they'll listen.Sunil_Prasannan said:
But the SNP want independence! Will they achieve that by re-joining Brussels?viewcode said:
Is is truly independent inside the UK?Sunil_Prasannan said:Would Scotland be truly independent inside the EU?
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If ur that thick, u really don't deserve the voteannak said:0 -
You may not have noticed buy an event has between then and now.BenedictWhite said:
Can I just ask, has Scotland just had another referendum where they voted out whilst I was not looking?SouthamObserver said:
I think they know the game is up. You can't keep trying to revive something that wants to die. And it will be exciting in Scotland. Very tough, too; but exciting. Why not?Lowlander said:
Kirsty Wark is one of the high heid yins of the Labour mafia in Scotland. If she's going there that would be very interesting. I've seen others, McLeish I mentioned earlier but also social rights lawyer Mike Dailly and other inner circle non-politician SLabbers all seem to be making pro-Yes noises.SouthamObserver said:
The tone of Kirstie Warks piece on Newsnight is that it's game over; Scotland is gone. We'll miss them, they may even miss us, but it's time to split as amicably and as quickly as possible.Lowlander said:
Ruth has already come out and re-stated her absolute objection to another referendum. However, Adam Tomkins on Scotland Tonight was rather muted (he's usually a very hardcore BritNat even calling his blog "Notes from North Britain").SouthamObserver said:
Boris's job will be to oversee the process on the rUK's behalf. It's for the Scots to decide. Would there even be much of a contest?
So there will be a rag tag of Scottish Tories, maybe the odd SLabber but I think the bulk of SLab will be going Yes this time or at least keeping a low profile. I think the newspapers are more Yes now too.
BBC is the hardest to call, it's had some changes in its news staff but I'm not up to date on which way this has swung things.
Make no mistake, Sturgeon will not hold one unless it is nailed on. Last polls suggested it wasn't.0
This discussion has been closed.