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Comments
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Is it racist to point out that non EU immigrants are discriminated against versus EU immigrants to this country?eek said:
To be blunt he is. Roger is telling people to vote Remain not because Remain have won the argument but because a few people campaigning for Leave have used racist arguments... And because one person used a racist argument the entire campaign is contaminated by itmidwinter said:
He's not calling Leave voter racists.eek said:
Calling someone who votes leave a racist I think says a lot more about you (intolerent, unable to be polite in civilised company) than it does about the person who voted leave..Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
Labour have spent decades saying you can't say that (insert statement) its racist. That cut down all argument discussion and police investigations into child abuse and rape in Rochdale and Bradford... I'm merely applying the same logic to Roger's utterly insane argument....
Is it racist to want to extend the current immigration points system from non EU people to EU people as well?
Is it racist to want to restrict the number of immigrants?
If the answers are no, no and no, then what is racist about the LEAVE campaign?0 -
Rotherham, not Bradford. (There was a case in Keighley, which is in Bradford District but neither the inhabitants of that town nor of the city that the district's named after are that keen on recognising the other).eek said:
To be blunt he is. Roger is telling people to vote Remain not because Remain have won the argument but because a few people campaigning for Leave have used racist arguments... And because one person used a racist argument the entire campaign is contaminated by itmidwinter said:
He's not calling Leave voter racists.eek said:
Calling someone who votes leave a racist I think says a lot more about you (intolerent, unable to be polite in civilised company) than it does about the person who voted leave..Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
Labour have spent decades saying you can't say that (insert statement) its racist. That cut down all argument discussion and police investigations into child abuse and rape in Rochdale and Bradford... I'm merely applying the same logic to Roger's utterly insane argument....0 -
Metcheck Weather Warning for S.E. England in particular:
Valid From
Wed 22 Jun 2016 : 14:00 BST(In 2hrs)
Valid Until
Thu 23 Jun 2016 : 22:00 BST (34hrs remaining)
Weather Watch for Thunderstorms / Heavy Rain / Hail / Severe Wind Gusts
A plume of unstable, moist air moves Northeast from France later this evening and overnight. We are expecting thunderstorms to develop across France and the Channel this afternoon, however the primary risk comes later this evening and overnight when organised multi-cell structures will approach the South and Southeast coast of England.
These systems will have the potential for intense local rainfall (25-75mm) with flash flooding possible. Severe wind gusts are likely around the storms with gusts of 50-60mph possible for a time.0 -
I'm sure they've all arranged a proxy vote or have postally voted already.David_Evershed said:
Will Festival goers have requested a postal vote or proxy vote if they were intending to travel there on Wednesday?Sandpit said:Maybe the festival-goers will get to vote after all?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/news/glastonbury-2016-wednesday---festival-goers-arrive-on-site-and-i/
https://mobile.twitter.com/GlastoFest/status/745551595639758848?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
Tens of thousands of young people missing out on voting in the referendum?
Does this muddy the waters?0 -
Cameron's weird panic press conference and the impression he was losing told me it's uncomfortably close.JessieShamus said:
Personally I dont believe the polls - and looking at the Remain campaign, I am only reminded of the slightly desperate campaigns of Ed Miliband & the surreal comedy of Gordon Brown trying to get away from the Elvis impersonator.Casino_Royale said:
Project terror will probably work in winning this for Remain, but those votes will come accompanied with resentment and won't endear a majority of people to the EU.
That aside, I have no crystal ball and the polls are MoE 50/50. Betting odds dont reflect that and offer excellent value for the punter, all funded by large unexplained Remain bets.
Personally, I make no predictions, except the EU will fall and Cameron is finished with the Conservatives.0 -
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.0 -
Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html
Fieldwork a bit old0 -
You won't find me defending the politically correct attitude to racism that Labour have espoused. Where I do agree with Roger is that by basing their campaign almost entirely on immigration Leave have appealed to peoples basic instincts and prejudices. It's no surprise that Leaves support is largely made up of pensioners harking back to the halcyon days of yore, and lower educated groups who are looking to blame someone else for their misfortunes in life, but will in most cases end up in exactly the same place regardless of immigration levels.eek said:
To be blunt he is. Roger is telling people to vote Remain not because Remain have won the argument but because a few people campaigning for Leave have used racist arguments... And because one person used a racist argument the entire campaign is contaminated by itmidwinter said:
He's not calling Leave voter racists.eek said:
Calling someone who votes leave a racist I think says a lot more about you (intolerent, unable to be polite in civilised company) than it does about the person who voted leave..Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
Labour have spent decades saying you can't say that (insert statement) its racist. That cut down all argument discussion and police investigations into child abuse and rape in Rochdale and Bradford... I'm merely applying the same logic to Roger's utterly insane argument....
If you lie down with dogs you catch fleas.0 -
What do the German CBI think should happen after Brexit?
http://order-order.com/2016/06/22/german-business-chief-calls-possibility-post-brexit-barriers-foolish/0 -
Brexit supporters more likely to doubt evolution and climate change.
"And when it comes to a far more well-established scientific theory, evolution, Brexit supporters are even more sceptical. Nearly half of Leave voters agree that those who question evolution “have a point”."0 -
I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.TheScreamingEagles said:Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html
Fieldwork a bit old0 -
True, Mr Glenn, the house price crash started in the autumn of 1988, I remember it well because I had to move for work and was trying to sell at the time (took me until 1991 to sell the place and then for 20% less than the 1988 valuation). The repossessions and negative equity pain really only kicked in after Major had become prime minister.williamglenn said:
It's interesting that it's become linked with repossessions in folklore.GIN1138 said:
The house price crash following the Lawson boom happened well before Black Wednesday, and the immediate effect of leaving the ERM was a rapid drop in interest rates.
...
The UK being forced out of the ERM brought relief, but it was Major when chancellor that took us in and it was Major that tried to keep us in. The blame therefore can, I think, be laid at his door.0 -
Just had my hair cut. All discussion of EU has been banned in my local barbers. There's been too many heated arguments in recent weeks.0
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This seems to resonate with the views of some REMAINers.
"Millionaire comic and achingly right-on Labour moderate Robert Webb has deleted this late-night tweet calling Leave voters “thick people”:
Before clarifying that actually he was only calling half the Wembley audience “stupid“:"
http://order-order.com/2016/06/22/luvvies-say-leavers-thick-idiots/0 -
Bad weather must favour "leave", they have the postal votes already IN. The runs on the board so to speak.peter_from_putney said:Metcheck Weather Warning for S.E. England in particular:
Valid From
Wed 22 Jun 2016 : 14:00 BST(In 2hrs)
Valid Until
Thu 23 Jun 2016 : 22:00 BST (34hrs remaining)
Weather Watch for Thunderstorms / Heavy Rain / Hail / Severe Wind Gusts
A plume of unstable, moist air moves Northeast from France later this evening and overnight. We are expecting thunderstorms to develop across France and the Channel this afternoon, however the primary risk comes later this evening and overnight when organised multi-cell structures will approach the South and Southeast coast of England.
These systems will have the potential for intense local rainfall (25-75mm) with flash flooding possible. Severe wind gusts are likely around the storms with gusts of 50-60mph possible for a time.0 -
They want us to share their pain.foxinsoxuk said:
They are just trying to butter us up, because of the jam we are in.welshowl said:
What's operation croissant? Sounds a bit flakey to me.SPML said:
Talking about France, have you seen operation croissant - how wonderful, offering help in our hour of darkness, the French (not sure TSE would agree...) bring lightness & love.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.0 -
In other news: Bear seen entering heavily forested area with perforated paper on a roll.TheScreamingEagles said:Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html
Fieldwork a bit old0 -
If you compare Newcastle and London, the difference is about the same.welshowl said:
Wouldn't deny that. I reckon magically making every day 5C warmer than last year's equivalent date would probably do more for national feel good factor than anything else. Funny thing is if you compare London and Melbourne's climate (rain fall is very similar) that's not far off.Slackbladder said:
Or it's just about the weather.welshowl said:
Actually that list is very revealing. Spain and France are probably retirees for the most part (of course there will be workers/marriages too) but you suspect the Anglosphere is a much younger demographic overall and is more a "heart" decision of "where do I want to spend my life?". Part of the EU's continuing issue with the Brits and one which isn't going anywhere on Friday whatever the outcome, is that the answer to that question is never "Duesseldorf".Casino_Royale said:
Germany isn't particularly popular, is it?SouthamObserver said:
Not including the Channel Islands, it looks like a toss of the coin between Ireland and NZ for most Brits as a percentage of the overall population.welshowl said:
Wow so over five and a half times the number in English speaking countries (or very predominantly - Canada or quasi S Africa) compared to Europe. The Anglosphere gets the votes with feet attached doesn't it?David_Evershed said:There are far more ex-pats in non EU countries than EU countries.
Which way will the non EU ex pats vote in the referendum?
Channel Islands: 73,030
Germany: 96,938
France: 172,806
Ireland: 253,605
South Africa: 305,660
New Zealand: 313,850
Spain: 381,025
Canada: 674,371
United States of America: 758,919
Australia: 1,277,474
Out of interest, what are so many Brits doing in Ireland? Is it joint passport-holding folk from the north? I'd be surprised if it was a whole host of people from England, Wales and Scotland.
Don't know why. I quite like Germany.0 -
I'm hoping for some strong differential turnout.peter_from_putney said:Metcheck Weather Warning for S.E. England in particular:
Valid From
Wed 22 Jun 2016 : 14:00 BST(In 2hrs)
Valid Until
Thu 23 Jun 2016 : 22:00 BST (34hrs remaining)
Weather Watch for Thunderstorms / Heavy Rain / Hail / Severe Wind Gusts
A plume of unstable, moist air moves Northeast from France later this evening and overnight. We are expecting thunderstorms to develop across France and the Channel this afternoon, however the primary risk comes later this evening and overnight when organised multi-cell structures will approach the South and Southeast coast of England.
These systems will have the potential for intense local rainfall (25-75mm) with flash flooding possible. Severe wind gusts are likely around the storms with gusts of 50-60mph possible for a time.0 -
Yep, one of my business partners has a Czech wife. She has been in tears over it and I think it's likely they'll leave the UK relatively soon. It's not been discussed, but he'll be able to run the EU office we are thinking about setting up. This will provide job opportunities that would have been available in London had we stayed in the single market.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
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Thank you,Tissue_Price said:
The column to focus on is the "Gap" which is Hanretty's estimate of the lead Remain will have in each local authority, if the overall result is a tie.RepublicanTory said:
At the risk of seeming really stupid could someone provide a quick summary, I think I get it but I am not sure !!Pulpstar said:
Thank you
It's a bit confusing that he hasn't stripped out don't knows; I asked him on Twitter how he'd apportion them and he said 50-50 so the gaps should stay fairly similar (actually a slight trending towards 0).
Like others I was struggling with the DK and the spread.
Out of interest whats your take on this-he has clearly done a lot of work and kudos for sharing it but I am not convinced I would use it on the night for betting purposes.
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Hopefully this is not the country we will become when Leave has won, part two.JessieShamus said:
It shows clearly how poorly we have been served since Thatcher left. Even pre-Blair Labour PMs cared about Britain and her people.JessieShamus said:
Cameron, Brown, Blair, Major, all lining up against the UK and for the EU.
It shows clearly how poorly we have been served since Thatcher left. Even pre-Labour PMs cared about Britain and her people.
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Tres bien. The Juncker prize for multilingual Euro punning is yours.Polruan said:
They want us to share their pain.foxinsoxuk said:
They are just trying to butter us up, because of the jam we are in.welshowl said:
What's operation croissant? Sounds a bit flakey to me.SPML said:
Talking about France, have you seen operation croissant - how wonderful, offering help in our hour of darkness, the French (not sure TSE would agree...) bring lightness & love.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.0 -
If I'm right in the outcome, who will the leavers 'dump' the most blame on for their being robbed of righteous victory?
The EU?
Cammo?
Osborne?
Boris?
Establishment?
Goldman Sachs?
TSE & OGH?
BBC?
or
Nigel?
0 -
Most people will be travelling Thursday. And will therefore vote before they go, if it was on their agenda to do so.Pulpstar said:
I'm sure they've all arranged a proxy vote or have postally voted already.David_Evershed said:
Will Festival goers have requested a postal vote or proxy vote if they were intending to travel there on Wednesday?Sandpit said:Maybe the festival-goers will get to vote after all?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/news/glastonbury-2016-wednesday---festival-goers-arrive-on-site-and-i/
https://mobile.twitter.com/GlastoFest/status/745551595639758848?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
Tens of thousands of young people missing out on voting in the referendum?
Does this muddy the waters?0 -
Vote Leave fur ein Besser Meinhead. Jawohl.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Guilt by association? Well by that measure who are REMAINers associating with according to Roger's rule?Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
.....
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1321570/jihadist-preacher-anjem-choudary-backs-remain-because-eu-stops-unfair-deportations/
PS- I am a Piccadilly Circus Leg Before Wicket Englishman and did not do war crimes0 -
And visa versa of course.Theuniondivvie said:
Inexplicably you seem to have overlooked several invasions and occupations of Scotland.DavidL said:
Our PM I am afraid to say. The French were also here in Scotland in the 1540s and then there was the Glorious Revolution and there were Viking invasions within the last 1000 years as well.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. L, who said that?
We were invaded in the early 13th century by the French, when we suffered the misrule of King John.0 -
Nigel Farage is a strong asset for "remain".Scrapheap_as_was said:If I'm right in the outcome, who will the leavers 'dump' the most blame on for their being robbed of righteous victory?
The EU?
Cammo?
Osborne?
Boris?
Establishment?
Goldman Sachs?
BBC?
or
Nigel?0 -
It is an interesting tactic of REMAIN to have Cameron (net -26 rating) front their campaign and then push Farage to the front as the bogeyman, when Farage's ratings are at a net -6, so much better than Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html
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I don't think Roger is intolerant, he just needs a safe space and a no platform policy for arguments he doesn't agree with.
It makes sense to some of the young.0 -
Not sure why they should take it personally. Don't they want British to live in a democracy.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, one of my business partners has a Czech wife. She has been in tears over it and I think it's likely they'll leave the UK relatively soon. It's not been discussed, but he'll be able to run the EU office we are thinking about setting up. This will provide job opportunities that would have been available in London had we stayed in the single market.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.
ps, a foreign wife like a professional is 'invited', bit like someone in your own home. It is the uninvited and the idiots holding the door open for anyone off the street that are the issue. It is probably healthy for people to remember that the house has residents.
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Meanwhile the Pope confirms rumours that he is in fact a Catholic.welshowl said:
In other news: Bear seen entering heavily forested area with perforated paper on a roll.TheScreamingEagles said:Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html
Fieldwork a bit old0 -
Yes, the frequently-seen Leaver view that those who disagree with them on the balance of the arguments 'don't care about Britain' is quite remarkably distasteful, as well as being self-evidently bonkers.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully this is not the country we will become when Leave has won, part two.JessieShamus said:
It shows clearly how poorly we have been served since Thatcher left. Even pre-Blair Labour PMs cared about Britain and her people.JessieShamus said:
Cameron, Brown, Blair, Major, all lining up against the UK and for the EU.
It shows clearly how poorly we have been served since Thatcher left. Even pre-Labour PMs cared about Britain and her people.0 -
The voters.Scrapheap_as_was said:If I'm right in the outcome, who will the leavers 'dump' the most blame on for their being robbed of righteous victory?
The EU?
Cammo?
Osborne?
Boris?
Establishment?
Goldman Sachs?
TSE & OGH?
BBC?
or
Nigel?0 -
I trust Dr Sox that, if only in the interest of your patients, your are explaining to these restless colleagues that there is a difference between wishing to be able to control immigration and feelings towards individual immigrants.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
Just out of interest, have any of your colleagues personally suffered from any expression of ill feeling because of their nation of origin?0 -
George Osborne has been strangely absent for the last few days...TCPoliticalBetting said:
It is an interesting tactic of REMAIN to have Cameron (net -26 rating) front their campaign and then push Farage to the front as the bogeyman, when Farage's ratings are at a net -6, so much better than Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html0 -
They see the posters, read the articles and hear the arguments: they are not welcome, they are not making a contribution, they are causing hardship and poverty. We are at "Breaking Point".JessieShamus said:
Not sure why they should take it personally. Don't they want British to live in a democracy.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, one of my business partners has a Czech wife. She has been in tears over it and I think it's likely they'll leave the UK relatively soon. It's not been discussed, but he'll be able to run the EU office we are thinking about setting up. This will provide job opportunities that would have been available in London had we stayed in the single market.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
ps, a foreign wife like a professional is 'invited', bit like someone in your own home. It is the uninvited and the idiots holding the door open that are the issue.
0 -
Give over. Leavers aren't demagogues. She'd be welcome to stay, as would future EU nationals, just not in unlimited numbers.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, one of my business partners has a Czech wife. She has been in tears over it and I think it's likely they'll leave the UK relatively soon. It's not been discussed, but he'll be able to run the EU office we are thinking about setting up. This will provide job opportunities that would have been available in London had we stayed in the single market.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
We have to balance population growth and expansion with planning for infrastructure and maintaining good community cohesion.0 -
That would be both novel and braveDavid_Evershed said:
The voters.Scrapheap_as_was said:If I'm right in the outcome, who will the leavers 'dump' the most blame on for their being robbed of righteous victory?
The EU?
Cammo?
Osborne?
Boris?
Establishment?
Goldman Sachs?
TSE & OGH?
BBC?
or
Nigel?0 -
Cameron, of course. The whole thing is his fault for agreeing to their demands for a referendum, natch.Scrapheap_as_was said:If I'm right in the outcome, who will the leavers 'dump' the most blame on for their being robbed of righteous victory?
The EU?
Cammo?
Osborne?
Boris?
Establishment?
Goldman Sachs?
TSE & OGH?
BBC?
or
Nigel?0 -
I'm talking about THE CAMPAIGN The banner behind which ALL leavers are marching. If you you can't understand the difference between A CAMPAIGN and a few isolated people with disparate views then it's not me who has comprehension problemsMTimT said:
As I said yesterday, this is about the most stupid meme in existence. If all ideas espoused by any evil or nasty person were to become untouchable by association, it would not be acceptable to hold any decent or good idea. It is a world in which, essentially, no idea is acceptable.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
So, because a racist person gives money to St Jude's, we are all supposed to stop giving money to St Jude's ...
Roger, you are capable of thinking, so think.0 -
Why do you think I'm fleeing the country if Remain wins.Scrapheap_as_was said:If I'm right in the outcome, who will the leavers 'dump' the most blame on for their being robbed of righteous victory?
The EU?
Cammo?
Osborne?
Boris?
Establishment?
Goldman Sachs?
TSE & OGH?
BBC?
or
Nigel?0 -
The problem is that this referendum has exposed a rather nasty side of the British general public, which FPTP usually does a good job of hiding.JessieShamus said:
Not sure why they should take it personally. Don't they want British to live in a democracy.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, one of my business partners has a Czech wife. She has been in tears over it and I think it's likely they'll leave the UK relatively soon. It's not been discussed, but he'll be able to run the EU office we are thinking about setting up. This will provide job opportunities that would have been available in London had we stayed in the single market.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
ps, a foreign wife like a professional is 'invited', bit like someone in your own home. It is the uninvited and the idiots holding the door open that are the issue.0 -
Contingency planning.Pulpstar said:
George Osborne has been strangely absent for the last few days...TCPoliticalBetting said:
It is an interesting tactic of REMAIN to have Cameron (net -26 rating) front their campaign and then push Farage to the front as the bogeyman, when Farage's ratings are at a net -6, so much better than Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html0 -
But Richard, many kippers assured us on a 'mensch' volume of effort pre-GE 2015 not least here on jolly old PB that cast iron Dave could never be trusted to deliver a referendum and never would.Richard_Nabavi said:
Cameron, of course. The whole thing is his fault for agreeing to their demands for a referendum, natch.Scrapheap_as_was said:If I'm right in the outcome, who will the leavers 'dump' the most blame on for their being robbed of righteous victory?
The EU?
Cammo?
Osborne?
Boris?
Establishment?
Goldman Sachs?
TSE & OGH?
BBC?
or
Nigel?0 -
Of course, she would be welcome to stay. She's married to a high income Brit for a start. But her feeling - whether right or wrong - is that this is not the country she thought it was. I can't second guess that, I can only report it.Casino_Royale said:
Give over. Leavers aren't demagogues. She'd be welcome to stay, as would future EU nationals, just not in unlimited numbers.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, one of my business partners has a Czech wife. She has been in tears over it and I think it's likely they'll leave the UK relatively soon. It's not been discussed, but he'll be able to run the EU office we are thinking about setting up. This will provide job opportunities that would have been available in London had we stayed in the single market.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
We have to balance population growth and expansion with planning for infrastructure and maintaining good community cohesion.
0 -
I've also heard of EU nationals who will leave on a Leave vote. They don't want to stay in a place that clearly doesn't want them. How real these thoughts are we will see.Casino_Royale said:
Give over. Leavers aren't demagogues. She'd be welcome to stay, as would future EU nationals, just not in unlimited numbers.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, one of my business partners has a Czech wife. She has been in tears over it and I think it's likely they'll leave the UK relatively soon. It's not been discussed, but he'll be able to run the EU office we are thinking about setting up. This will provide job opportunities that would have been available in London had we stayed in the single market.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
We have to balance population growth and expansion with planning for infrastructure and maintaining good community cohesion.0 -
That could swing it for us!TheScreamingEagles said:
Why do you think I'm fleeing the country if Remain wins.Scrapheap_as_was said:If I'm right in the outcome, who will the leavers 'dump' the most blame on for their being robbed of righteous victory?
The EU?
Cammo?
Osborne?
Boris?
Establishment?
Goldman Sachs?
TSE & OGH?
BBC?
or
Nigel?0 -
Yes, but they all ran away when I offered to give them £1000 if they were right. I never did understand why, given the certainty with which they expressed the view that Cameron could not be trusted.Scrapheap_as_was said:But Richard, many kippers assured us on a 'mensch' volume of effort pre-GE 2015 not least here on jolly old PB that cast iron Dave could never be trusted to deliver a referendum and never would.
0 -
No, the British are not nasty. They are very tolerant. That is why people come here.not_on_fire said:
The problem is that this referendum has exposed a rather nasty side of the British general public, which FPTP usually does a good job of hiding.
However, when it comes to explaining that hey, you are actually in my house, and I want it back, it may be a little awkward. We are not a doormat.
0 -
Thank God that our own government has a long-term economic plan ....TCPoliticalBetting said:
I would of course agree that the picture is fragile. An organisation that allows problems to fester and pile up sows the seeds of its eventual demise. I prefer an organisation taking some prudent actions to tackle its problems even if its just one problem fixed at a time. For the EU the fundamental problems are just kicked into the long grass and they hope something turns up to fix it.IanB2 said:
Trouble is, economically and especially politically, there is a huge difference between actively making something happen, and responding to events. The political and economic/financial climate, both here and in Europe, remain immensely fragile - far more so than most people realise, since in the absence of dramatic events the person in the street thinks the 2008 problems have largely gone away - whereas the sad truth is that next to nothing has actually changed, and some things are actually worse.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Ian B2 and Tyson. Thank you for your views. Ian B2 - I agree that it is difficult to predict when the EU unravels. Tyson - history in the form of leaving the ERM and staying out of the euro shows that the markets did not punish us - they actually rewarded us through higher growth (than the ERM/Eurozone).IanB2 said:
And my reply was that, even if he is right, these things typically play out over a much longer timescale than the doom-mongers predict. This may therefore be an issue for the younger generation rather than ours...tyson said:
.....Tissue Price is probably right...the EU will unravel in due course......"TCPoliticalBetting said:After a breakfast meeting, I have scrolled back on this article's comments for two hours worth and not noticed much, if any response from REMAIN people to disagree with Tissue Price's article and to explain why. I may have missed some fundamental points from REMAIN supporters so could they please recap their contrary view or do they all agree with TP?
Which does lead to the question of why go now? I believe that we would get a first country benefit in realigning ourselves to the realities of the global world than this illusion of a protected trade block with its burdensome overheads. It takes time to change and my experience in companies and change, is that the company that makes changes with an eye to improving its competitiveness at its own pace, rather than having to violently respond to outside forces, will emerge healthier and have a better chance of survival.
Even a vote for Brexit could easily turn out to be the first domino....0 -
In what way do law-abiding, hard-working people who speak good English threaten community cohesion? What are you saying to them when you imply that they do?Casino_Royale said:
Give over. Leavers aren't demagogues. She'd be welcome to stay, as would future EU nationals, just not in unlimited numbers.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, one of my business partners has a Czech wife. She has been in tears over it and I think it's likely they'll leave the UK relatively soon. It's not been discussed, but he'll be able to run the EU office we are thinking about setting up. This will provide job opportunities that would have been available in London had we stayed in the single market.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
We have to balance population growth and expansion with planning for infrastructure and maintaining good community cohesion.0 -
That's simply nonsense. We're a great country.SouthamObserver said:
Of course, she would be welcome to stay. She's married to a high income Brit for a start. But her feeling - whether right or wrong - is that this is not the country she thought it was. I can't second guess that, I can only report it.Casino_Royale said:
Give over. Leavers aren't demagogues. She'd be welcome to stay, as would future EU nationals, just not in unlimited numbers.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, one of my business partners has a Czech wife. She has been in tears over it and I think it's likely they'll leave the UK relatively soon. It's not been discussed, but he'll be able to run the EU office we are thinking about setting up. This will provide job opportunities that would have been available in London had we stayed in the single market.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
We have to balance population growth and expansion with planning for infrastructure and maintaining good community cohesion.
My wife is a dual-national Bulgarian and is voting Leave. She was convinced by the democratic arguments.0 -
Surely they see the difference between the invited and the uninvited, and the millions of uninvited waiting?SouthamObserver said:
They see the posters, read the articles and hear the arguments: they are not welcome, they are not making a contribution, they are causing hardship and poverty. We are at "Breaking Point".
Perhaps they should see the valid concerns of the locals. If I were in their house, I would respect them, their house and their concerns. Just common courtesy.0 -
Having threatened to increase taxes and cut spending if we voted to LEAVE, Osborne has been shut up in a cupboard by the REMAIN campaign.Pulpstar said:
George Osborne has been strangely absent for the last few days...TCPoliticalBetting said:
It is an interesting tactic of REMAIN to have Cameron (net -26 rating) front their campaign and then push Farage to the front as the bogeyman, when Farage's ratings are at a net -6, so much better than Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html0 -
I'm hoping Roy Hodgson comes out for Leave today.Scrapheap_as_was said:
That could swing it for us!TheScreamingEagles said:
Why do you think I'm fleeing the country if Remain wins.Scrapheap_as_was said:If I'm right in the outcome, who will the leavers 'dump' the most blame on for their being robbed of righteous victory?
The EU?
Cammo?
Osborne?
Boris?
Establishment?
Goldman Sachs?
TSE & OGH?
BBC?
or
Nigel?0 -
Don't be a dick. I haven't implied they do.Wanderer said:
In what way do law-abiding, hard-working people who speak good English threaten community cohesion? What are saying to them when you imply that they do?Casino_Royale said:
Give over. Leavers aren't demagogues. She'd be welcome to stay, as would future EU nationals, just not in unlimited numbers.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, one of my business partners has a Czech wife. She has been in tears over it and I think it's likely they'll leave the UK relatively soon. It's not been discussed, but he'll be able to run the EU office we are thinking about setting up. This will provide job opportunities that would have been available in London had we stayed in the single market.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
We have to balance population growth and expansion with planning for infrastructure and maintaining good community cohesion.
There is simply a rate at which new migrants can be accepted, adopted and assimilated into the community, making it cohensive and welcoming, and one where, if too high and too fast, it can lead to division and it polarising.
This is simply common sense. But neither side seems to make any effort to understand the other on immigration.0 -
No, no one has to my knowledge had any personal abuse. They are simply getting the feeling that they are unwanted. Most come for a couple of years with the idea of returning. That has long been the case with other migrants, and peoples plans then develop. Before they know it they have been here for decades.HurstLlama said:
I trust Dr Sox that, if only in the interest of your patients, your are explaining to these restless colleagues that there is a difference between wishing to be able to control immigration and feelings towards individual immigrants.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
Just out of interest, have any of your colleagues personally suffered from any expression of ill feeling because of their nation of origin?
What is happening is that they are reverting to their original plans.0 -
He finally read about his own 2% polling ratings?Pulpstar said:
George Osborne has been strangely absent for the last few days...TCPoliticalBetting said:
It is an interesting tactic of REMAIN to have Cameron (net -26 rating) front their campaign and then push Farage to the front as the bogeyman, when Farage's ratings are at a net -6, so much better than Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html
0 -
..... you mean job interviews?Casino_Royale said:
Contingency planning.Pulpstar said:
George Osborne has been strangely absent for the last few days...TCPoliticalBetting said:
It is an interesting tactic of REMAIN to have Cameron (net -26 rating) front their campaign and then push Farage to the front as the bogeyman, when Farage's ratings are at a net -6, so much better than Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html0 -
Of course. That's why they are likely to go. They don't want to be in the house anymore. They won't make a big fuss about it, they'll just up sticks. And for our business it will probably work out pretty well.JessieShamus said:
Surely they see the difference between the invited and the uninvited, and the millions of uninvited waiting?SouthamObserver said:
They see the posters, read the articles and hear the arguments: they are not welcome, they are not making a contribution, they are causing hardship and poverty. We are at "Breaking Point".
Perhaps they should see the valid concerns of the locals. If I were in their house, I would respect them, their house and their concerns. Just common courtesy.
0 -
Hodgson wants to REMAIN in the EU.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm hoping Roy Hodgson comes out for Leave today.Scrapheap_as_was said:
That could swing it for us!TheScreamingEagles said:
Why do you think I'm fleeing the country if Remain wins.Scrapheap_as_was said:If I'm right in the outcome, who will the leavers 'dump' the most blame on for their being robbed of righteous victory?
The EU?
Cammo?
Osborne?
Boris?
Establishment?
Goldman Sachs?
TSE & OGH?
BBC?
or
Nigel?0 -
I'll be trading the referendum all night. In lieu of anything else it's helpful, but it's important to recognise the big error bars. I've also seen specific authorities quoted by Curtice as a fair bit different. i.e. Remainians shouldn't despair if Sunderland is 56-44 Leave, and Leavers shouldn't panic if it's 50-50 (though both would rightly move the prices).RepublicanTory said:
Thank you,Tissue_Price said:
The column to focus on is the "Gap" which is Hanretty's estimate of the lead Remain will have in each local authority, if the overall result is a tie.RepublicanTory said:
At the risk of seeming really stupid could someone provide a quick summary, I think I get it but I am not sure !!Pulpstar said:
Thank you
It's a bit confusing that he hasn't stripped out don't knows; I asked him on Twitter how he'd apportion them and he said 50-50 so the gaps should stay fairly similar (actually a slight trending towards 0).
Like others I was struggling with the DK and the spread.
Out of interest whats your take on this-he has clearly done a lot of work and kudos for sharing it but I am not convinced I would use it on the night for betting purposes.0 -
His tactics would imply otherwiseDavid_Evershed said:
Hodgson wants to REMAIN in the EU.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm hoping Roy Hodgson comes out for Leave today.Scrapheap_as_was said:
That could swing it for us!TheScreamingEagles said:
Why do you think I'm fleeing the country if Remain wins.Scrapheap_as_was said:If I'm right in the outcome, who will the leavers 'dump' the most blame on for their being robbed of righteous victory?
The EU?
Cammo?
Osborne?
Boris?
Establishment?
Goldman Sachs?
TSE & OGH?
BBC?
or
Nigel?0 -
He certainly wants to stay in France a bit longer.David_Evershed said:
Hodgson wants to REMAIN in the EU.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm hoping Roy Hodgson comes out for Leave today.Scrapheap_as_was said:
That could swing it for us!TheScreamingEagles said:
Why do you think I'm fleeing the country if Remain wins.Scrapheap_as_was said:If I'm right in the outcome, who will the leavers 'dump' the most blame on for their being robbed of righteous victory?
The EU?
Cammo?
Osborne?
Boris?
Establishment?
Goldman Sachs?
TSE & OGH?
BBC?
or
Nigel?0 -
As we know, different people react in different ways. I am sure there are plenty of EU nationals who are not at all worried by the Leave campaign or upset by it. Others are. I was merely reporting one such case. Dr Fox was reporting another.Casino_Royale said:
That's simply nonsense. We're a great country.SouthamObserver said:
Of course, she would be welcome to stay. She's married to a high income Brit for a start. But her feeling - whether right or wrong - is that this is not the country she thought it was. I can't second guess that, I can only report it.Casino_Royale said:
Give over. Leavers aren't demagogues. She'd be welcome to stay, as would future EU nationals, just not in unlimited numbers.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, one of my business partners has a Czech wife. She has been in tears over it and I think it's likely they'll leave the UK relatively soon. It's not been discussed, but he'll be able to run the EU office we are thinking about setting up. This will provide job opportunities that would have been available in London had we stayed in the single market.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
We have to balance population growth and expansion with planning for infrastructure and maintaining good community cohesion.
My wife is a dual-national Bulgarian and is voting Leave. She was convinced by the democratic arguments.
0 -
Just received the expected must vote remain blurb from our CEO. Having discussed this with 10/11 other employees all except one found this unacceptable and will be voting Leave, most probably were in fairness.
I wonder what difference, if any, these types of communication from the hierachy have on normal, everyday, hard working people?0 -
I hope we can all agree we'll be glad when this is over.Tissue_Price said:
I'll be trading the referendum all night. In lieu of anything else it's helpful, but it's important to recognise the big error bars. I've also seen specific authorities quoted by Curtice as a fair bit different. i.e. Remainians shouldn't despair if Sunderland is 56-44 Leave, and Leavers shouldn't panic if it's 50-50 (though both would rightly move the prices).RepublicanTory said:
Thank you,Tissue_Price said:
The column to focus on is the "Gap" which is Hanretty's estimate of the lead Remain will have in each local authority, if the overall result is a tie.RepublicanTory said:
At the risk of seeming really stupid could someone provide a quick summary, I think I get it but I am not sure !!Pulpstar said:
Thank you
It's a bit confusing that he hasn't stripped out don't knows; I asked him on Twitter how he'd apportion them and he said 50-50 so the gaps should stay fairly similar (actually a slight trending towards 0).
Like others I was struggling with the DK and the spread.
Out of interest whats your take on this-he has clearly done a lot of work and kudos for sharing it but I am not convinced I would use it on the night for betting purposes.
This campaign has gone on far, far too long.0 -
I'd imagine that Cameron compares favourably to Farage to most sane people. Plus Big Nige doesn't do that well in elections does he?TCPoliticalBetting said:
It is an interesting tactic of REMAIN to have Cameron (net -26 rating) front their campaign and then push Farage to the front as the bogeyman, when Farage's ratings are at a net -6, so much better than Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html0 -
Osborne was in Notts yesterday. Local newspaper covered it and probably TV news (didn't see that myself).peter_from_putney said:
..... you mean job interviews?Casino_Royale said:
Contingency planning.Pulpstar said:
George Osborne has been strangely absent for the last few days...TCPoliticalBetting said:
It is an interesting tactic of REMAIN to have Cameron (net -26 rating) front their campaign and then push Farage to the front as the bogeyman, when Farage's ratings are at a net -6, so much better than Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html0 -
thomas mair I believe.Scrapheap_as_was said:If I'm right in the outcome, who will the leavers 'dump' the most blame on for their being robbed of righteous victory?
The EU?
Cammo?
Osborne?
Boris?
Establishment?
Goldman Sachs?
TSE & OGH?
BBC?
or
Nigel?
The awful murder of Jo Cox took the wind out of Leave's sails.0 -
No missives at my (small) workReestev said:Just received the expected must vote remain blurb from our CEO. Having discussed this with 10/11 other employees all except one found this unacceptable and will be voting Leave, most probably were in fairness.
I wonder what difference, if any, these types of communication from the hierachy have on normal, everyday, hard working people?
DLA Piper have sent a missive telling their employees that they can rearrange stuffs if needed in order to vote. No instructions.0 -
Are you joining the folk smearing LEAVErs as thick and insane?midwinter said:
I'd imagine that Cameron compares favourably to Farage to most sane people. Plus Big Nige doesn't do that well in elections does he?TCPoliticalBetting said:
It is an interesting tactic of REMAIN to have Cameron (net -26 rating) front their campaign and then push Farage to the front as the bogeyman, when Farage's ratings are at a net -6, so much better than Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html
0 -
God knows how Scotland coped.Casino_Royale said:
I hope we can all agree we'll be glad when this is over.Tissue_Price said:
I'll be trading the referendum all night. In lieu of anything else it's helpful, but it's important to recognise the big error bars. I've also seen specific authorities quoted by Curtice as a fair bit different. i.e. Remainians shouldn't despair if Sunderland is 56-44 Leave, and Leavers shouldn't panic if it's 50-50 (though both would rightly move the prices).RepublicanTory said:
Thank you,Tissue_Price said:
The column to focus on is the "Gap" which is Hanretty's estimate of the lead Remain will have in each local authority, if the overall result is a tie.RepublicanTory said:
At the risk of seeming really stupid could someone provide a quick summary, I think I get it but I am not sure !!Pulpstar said:
Thank you
It's a bit confusing that he hasn't stripped out don't knows; I asked him on Twitter how he'd apportion them and he said 50-50 so the gaps should stay fairly similar (actually a slight trending towards 0).
Like others I was struggling with the DK and the spread.
Out of interest whats your take on this-he has clearly done a lot of work and kudos for sharing it but I am not convinced I would use it on the night for betting purposes.
This campaign has gone on far, far too long.0 -
Speaking of which, I've backed Eddie Howe to get his job at odds of 12/1. Just worried that he may be a tad young however - he's only 38 - that said there aren't that many suitably impressive British candidatesTheScreamingEagles said:
I'm hoping Roy Hodgson comes out for Leave today.Scrapheap_as_was said:
That could swing it for us!TheScreamingEagles said:
Why do you think I'm fleeing the country if Remain wins.Scrapheap_as_was said:If I'm right in the outcome, who will the leavers 'dump' the most blame on for their being robbed of righteous victory?
The EU?
Cammo?
Osborne?
Boris?
Establishment?
Goldman Sachs?
TSE & OGH?
BBC?
or
Nigel?0 -
Often gets their backs up if they are urged to do something. Far better to praise and thank them and explain what is happening.Reestev said:Just received the expected must vote remain blurb from our CEO. Having discussed this with 10/11 other employees all except one found this unacceptable and will be voting Leave, most probably were in fairness.
I wonder what difference, if any, these types of communication from the hierachy have on normal, everyday, hard working people?
0 -
midwinter said:
I'd imagine that Cameron compares favourably to Farage to most sane people. Plus Big Nige doesn't do that well in elections does he?TCPoliticalBetting said:
It is an interesting tactic of REMAIN to have Cameron (net -26 rating) front their campaign and then push Farage to the front as the bogeyman, when Farage's ratings are at a net -6, so much better than Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html
UKIP won the last elections for the European parliament.0 -
For lawyers, it's a 'Heads we win, Tails you lose' referendum!Pulpstar said:DLA Piper have sent a missive telling their employees that they can rearrange stuffs if needed in order to vote. No instructions.
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Hodgson would say he wants to WEMAIN.David_Evershed said:
Hodgson wants to REMAIN in the EU.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm hoping Roy Hodgson comes out for Leave today.Scrapheap_as_was said:
That could swing it for us!TheScreamingEagles said:
Why do you think I'm fleeing the country if Remain wins.Scrapheap_as_was said:If I'm right in the outcome, who will the leavers 'dump' the most blame on for their being robbed of righteous victory?
The EU?
Cammo?
Osborne?
Boris?
Establishment?
Goldman Sachs?
TSE & OGH?
BBC?
or
Nigel?
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And I'm upset at Remain supporters constantly casting doubt on my common decency and basic humanity simply for wanting the UK to be a self-governing liberal democracy, and a different future for Europe.SouthamObserver said:
As we know, different people react in different ways. I am sure there are plenty of EU nationals who are not at all worried by the Leave campaign or upset by it. Others are. I was merely reporting one such case. Dr Fox was reporting another.Casino_Royale said:
That's simply nonsense. We're a great country.SouthamObserver said:
Of course, she would be welcome to stay. She's married to a high income Brit for a start. But her feeling - whether right or wrong - is that this is not the country she thought it was. I can't second guess that, I can only report it.Casino_Royale said:
Give over. Leavers aren't demagogues. She'd be welcome to stay, as would future EU nationals, just not in unlimited numbers.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, one of my business partners has a Czech wife. She has been in tears over it and I think it's likely they'll leave the UK relatively soon. It's not been discussed, but he'll be able to run the EU office we are thinking about setting up. This will provide job opportunities that would have been available in London had we stayed in the single market.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
We have to balance population growth and expansion with planning for infrastructure and maintaining good community cohesion.
My wife is a dual-national Bulgarian and is voting Leave. She was convinced by the democratic arguments.
Maybe I was naive in thinking this campaign wouldn't get so bitter and nasty.0 -
Not all people with a view march under the banner. What is your comprehension problem with that?Roger said:
I'm talking about THE CAMPAIGN The banner behind which ALL leavers are marching. If you you can't understand the difference between A CAMPAIGN and a few isolated people with disparate views then it's not me who has comprehension problemsMTimT said:
As I said yesterday, this is about the most stupid meme in existence. If all ideas espoused by any evil or nasty person were to become untouchable by association, it would not be acceptable to hold any decent or good idea. It is a world in which, essentially, no idea is acceptable.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
So, because a racist person gives money to St Jude's, we are all supposed to stop giving money to St Jude's ...
Roger, you are capable of thinking, so think.
Because Jimmy Saville runs A CAMPAIGN for Stoke Mandeville, if I give money, which I would have done totally separately from THE CAMPAIGN, I am condoning child sexual molestation?
Even you can see how stupid that position is.
PS Perhaps you are also saying that, because the Borgias were Popes, all Catholics are tarred with their crimes? And perhaps more pertinently to you personally, because you supported Labour and help elect in Tony Blair, you are responsible for the Iraq War.0 -
Pah! I think its like those people who say they will leave the country if the Tories win/of Labour win. They never do.foxinsoxuk said:
No, no one has to my knowledge had any personal abuse. They are simply getting the feeling that they are unwanted. Most come for a couple of years with the idea of returning. That has long been the case with other migrants, and peoples plans then develop. Before they know it they have been here for decades.HurstLlama said:
I trust Dr Sox that, if only in the interest of your patients, your are explaining to these restless colleagues that there is a difference between wishing to be able to control immigration and feelings towards individual immigrants.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
Just out of interest, have any of your colleagues personally suffered from any expression of ill feeling because of their nation of origin?
What is happening is that they are reverting to their original plans.
Useless anecdote of the day: Saw a 2-man BSE stall in Sevenoaks this morning. As I rushed past (car-park ticket about to expire), noticed they were being harangued by a woman who I would imagine to be Dutch (judging by her accent), who was talking animatedly about the misery the EU had caused in Southern Europe.0 -
You're implying that more than a certain (presumably low) number of French, German, Polish etc immigrants will damage community cohesion. Yet these are fellow Europeans, extremely similar to Britons culturally. What assimilation is needed?Casino_Royale said:
Don't be a dick. I haven't implied they do.Wanderer said:
In what way do law-abiding, hard-working people who speak good English threaten community cohesion? What are saying to them when you imply that they do?Casino_Royale said:
Give over. Leavers aren't demagogues. She'd be welcome to stay, as would future EU nationals, just not in unlimited numbers.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, one of my business partners has a Czech wife. She has been in tears over it and I think it's likely they'll leave the UK relatively soon. It's not been discussed, but he'll be able to run the EU office we are thinking about setting up. This will provide job opportunities that would have been available in London had we stayed in the single market.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
We have to balance population growth and expansion with planning for infrastructure and maintaining good community cohesion.
There is simply a rate at which new migrants can be accepted, adopted and assimilated into the community, making it cohensive and welcoming, and one where, if too high and too fast, it can lead to division and it polarising.
This is simply common sense. But neither side seems to make any effort to understand the other on immigration.0 -
That works out well then. And UK will need to train locals rather than poach from abroad.SouthamObserver said:
Of course. That's why they are likely to go. They don't want to be in the house anymore. They won't make a big fuss about it, they'll just up sticks. And for our business it will probably work out pretty well.JessieShamus said:
Surely they see the difference between the invited and the uninvited, and the millions of uninvited waiting?
Perhaps they should see the valid concerns of the locals. If I were in their house, I would respect them, their house and their concerns. Just common courtesy.
BTW, foreign wives seem to be popular in the Brexit camp. Farage did it. Gisela Stuart settled also.
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Thanks for that, Doc. I am somewhat reassured. People deciding that it is time to return home is a different cauldron of octopus from someone being driven out because of personal threats.foxinsoxuk said:
No, no one has to my knowledge had any personal abuse. They are simply getting the feeling that they are unwanted. Most come for a couple of years with the idea of returning. That has long been the case with other migrants, and peoples plans then develop. Before they know it they have been here for decades.HurstLlama said:
I trust Dr Sox that, if only in the interest of your patients, your are explaining to these restless colleagues that there is a difference between wishing to be able to control immigration and feelings towards individual immigrants.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
Just out of interest, have any of your colleagues personally suffered from any expression of ill feeling because of their nation of origin?
What is happening is that they are reverting to their original plans.
I have made that decision to come home three times and I think you too have lived and worked abroad and also returned. The reason we make those decisions are many, varied and personal.0 -
Mine also comes from an EU country and is voting LEAVE. She cannot believe the stuff coming out from Cameron. For myself having lived and worked in many countries I am for LEAVE.Casino_Royale said:
That's simply nonsense. We're a great country.SouthamObserver said:
Of course, she would be welcome to stay. She's married to a high income Brit for a start. But her feeling - whether right or wrong - is that this is not the country she thought it was. I can't second guess that, I can only report it.Casino_Royale said:
Give over. Leavers aren't demagogues. She'd be welcome to stay, as would future EU nationals, just not in unlimited numbers.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, one of my business partners has a Czech wife. She has been in tears over it and I think it's likely they'll leave the UK relatively soon. It's not been discussed, but he'll be able to run the EU office we are thinking about setting up. This will provide job opportunities that would have been available in London had we stayed in the single market.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
We have to balance population growth and expansion with planning for infrastructure and maintaining good community cohesion.
My wife is a dual-national Bulgarian and is voting Leave. She was convinced by the democratic arguments.
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Perhaps cynically, I'd suggest they a) show shareholders the CEO is *doing something*, and b) let the company say "we told you so" in the case of any post-Brexit recession induced redundancies.Reestev said:Just received the expected must vote remain blurb from our CEO. Having discussed this with 10/11 other employees all except one found this unacceptable and will be voting Leave, most probably were in fairness.
I wonder what difference, if any, these types of communication from the hierachy have on normal, everyday, hard working people?0 -
Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Vote Leave fur ein Besser Meinhead. Jawohl.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Guilt by association? Well by that measure who are REMAINers associating with according to Roger's rule?Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
.....
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1321570/jihadist-preacher-anjem-choudary-backs-remain-because-eu-stops-unfair-deportations/
PS- I am a Piccadilly Circus Leg Before Wicket Englishman and did not do war crimes
I don't like the sound of these 'ere boncentration bamps.
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On a turnout of 35 percent. Many of whom were highly motivated Kippers.David_Evershed said:midwinter said:
I'd imagine that Cameron compares favourably to Farage to most sane people. Plus Big Nige doesn't do that well in elections does he?TCPoliticalBetting said:
It is an interesting tactic of REMAIN to have Cameron (net -26 rating) front their campaign and then push Farage to the front as the bogeyman, when Farage's ratings are at a net -6, so much better than Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html
UKIP won the last elections for the European parliament.
How did he get on in Thanet or Buckingham or Bromley?0 -
Im hoping Sunderland will be at least 60-40 leave otherwise I might get tempted not to go to bed and waste an hour and a half listening to windbag punditry before falling asleep on the sofa 10 mins before the next result gets announcedTissue_Price said:
I'll be trading the referendum all night. In lieu of anything else it's helpful, but it's important to recognise the big error bars. I've also seen specific authorities quoted by Curtice as a fair bit different. i.e. Remainians shouldn't despair if Sunderland is 56-44 Leave, and Leavers shouldn't panic if it's 50-50 (though both would rightly move the prices).RepublicanTory said:
Thank you,Tissue_Price said:
The column to focus on is the "Gap" which is Hanretty's estimate of the lead Remain will have in each local authority, if the overall result is a tie.RepublicanTory said:
At the risk of seeming really stupid could someone provide a quick summary, I think I get it but I am not sure !!Pulpstar said:
Thank you
It's a bit confusing that he hasn't stripped out don't knows; I asked him on Twitter how he'd apportion them and he said 50-50 so the gaps should stay fairly similar (actually a slight trending towards 0).
Like others I was struggling with the DK and the spread.
Out of interest whats your take on this-he has clearly done a lot of work and kudos for sharing it but I am not convinced I would use it on the night for betting purposes.0 -
The Bristol/YouGov analysis had the most leave areas as South Staffs/Havering/north Kent/Lincs/Mansfield/coastal Essex. So I hope you got good odds on the IOW!foxinsoxuk said:
I know the IoW fairly well. There are some wealthy retirees in Bembridge, Seaview and Yarmouth but these are far outweighed by low income retirees from more working class backgrounds in London or the Midlands. What little work there is for locals is low income and largely low skill in the tourist, agricultural and nursing home sectors. The maritime industries tend to be pro-Leave too. There are some commuters to the mainland but mostly because it is far cheaper than Hampshire. East Wight is particularly popular with retired matelots from Portsmouth. Islanders are particularly insular and do not like change.IanB2 said:
My money would be on somewhere in Lincolnshire, probably Boston. The tourist trade and trend to retire there give the IOW a bit more of a mixed make-up than is my impression of the Lincs coast. Plus the island hasn't really had significant EU immigration and isn't likely to get any.foxinsoxuk said:
Jesting aside, I think the Caulkheads and Overners will both go for Leave. Wight is my tip for highest Leave vote in the Ladbrokes market. The age, SE class and occupational pointers are all heavily for Leave.rcs1000 said:
IoW will be at least 60% Leave IMHO.foxinsoxuk said:Anecdore alert.
Chatting last night to my IoW aunt about summer holiday plans. She has to the best of my knowledge never left the UK, C1 turned housewife turned granny turned widow. Voting Remain - because that is what her husband would have wanted. Remain win Wight from beyond the grave...
On the other hand my Aunt is very capable of persuasion, and a very social pillar of the community.
It is the perfect storm for A high Leave vote.0 -
Well, IDS appears to have gone "all in"0
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I thought Nigels speech today was very robust, balanced and made the point which has not been debated as much in this referendum with the focus just being on economy and immigration, that the EU was mis-sold as a trading block but is really a project to create one state called Europe with one flag, one anthem, one army, one president, one currency, one set of laws, one people and little democracy. We have to choose which flag we want over us,TCPoliticalBetting said:
Are you joining the folk smearing LEAVErs as thick and insane?midwinter said:
I'd imagine that Cameron compares favourably to Farage to most sane people. Plus Big Nige doesn't do that well in elections does he?TCPoliticalBetting said:
It is an interesting tactic of REMAIN to have Cameron (net -26 rating) front their campaign and then push Farage to the front as the bogeyman, when Farage's ratings are at a net -6, so much better than Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:Contains leader ratings. Ipsos Mori
Brexit poll: Tories 'less united now than before start of EU referendum battle'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-tories-less-united-now-than-before-start-of-eu-referendum-battle-a3277846.html0 -
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
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I don't think it has been long enough. Seriously. It has felt very rushed to me. Of course, we all know all why it has been rushed, which makes it even more frustrating.Casino_Royale said:
I hope we can all agree we'll be glad when this is over.Tissue_Price said:
I'll be trading the referendum all night. In lieu of anything else it's helpful, but it's important to recognise the big error bars. I've also seen specific authorities quoted by Curtice as a fair bit different. i.e. Remainians shouldn't despair if Sunderland is 56-44 Leave, and Leavers shouldn't panic if it's 50-50 (though both would rightly move the prices).RepublicanTory said:
Thank you,Tissue_Price said:
The column to focus on is the "Gap" which is Hanretty's estimate of the lead Remain will have in each local authority, if the overall result is a tie.RepublicanTory said:
At the risk of seeming really stupid could someone provide a quick summary, I think I get it but I am not sure !!Pulpstar said:
Thank you
It's a bit confusing that he hasn't stripped out don't knows; I asked him on Twitter how he'd apportion them and he said 50-50 so the gaps should stay fairly similar (actually a slight trending towards 0).
Like others I was struggling with the DK and the spread.
Out of interest whats your take on this-he has clearly done a lot of work and kudos for sharing it but I am not convinced I would use it on the night for betting purposes.
This campaign has gone on far, far too long.
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The CreMORItoriumSouthamObserver said:
Where do discredited opinion pollsters go to die? Is it the Angus Reid graveyard?TheScreamingEagles said:ORB have issued a note saying the figure they wished to be judged on is
Remain 54%
Leave 46%
http://opinion.co.uk/perch/resources/finalpollanalysisv2.pdf
*gets coat*0 -
Jonathan said:
If I saw my vote as an endorsement of a campaign I would not vote. I expected better from the Remain campaign than the "don't be silly, nanny knows best" or "be afraid" arguments. Totally off-putting.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
It can be nothing else. If Marine Le Pen and the National Front win in France the image of France abroad and at home will change radically overnight whatever the motivation of the voters.0 -
I fear the risk is that employees look at the endemic shiteness of senior corporate management and ask themselves why they should trust management on this....Reestev said:Just received the expected must vote remain blurb from our CEO. Having discussed this with 10/11 other employees all except one found this unacceptable and will be voting Leave, most probably were in fairness.
I wonder what difference, if any, these types of communication from the hierachy have on normal, everyday, hard working people?
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I think we were all naïve about that.Casino_Royale said:
And I'm upset at Remain supporters constantly casting doubt on my common decency and basic humanity simply for wanting the UK to be a self-governing liberal democracy, and a different future for Europe.SouthamObserver said:
As we know, different people react in different ways. I am sure there are plenty of EU nationals who are not at all worried by the Leave campaign or upset by it. Others are. I was merely reporting one such case. Dr Fox was reporting another.Casino_Royale said:
That's simply nonsense. We're a great country.SouthamObserver said:
Of course, she would be welcome to stay. She's married to a high income Brit for a start. But her feeling - whether right or wrong - is that this is not the country she thought it was. I can't second guess that, I can only report it.Casino_Royale said:
Give over. Leavers aren't demagogues. She'd be welcome to stay, as would future EU nationals, just not in unlimited numbers.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, one of my business partners has a Czech wife. She has been in tears over it and I think it's likely they'll leave the UK relatively soon. It's not been discussed, but he'll be able to run the EU office we are thinking about setting up. This will provide job opportunities that would have been available in London had we stayed in the single market.foxinsoxuk said:
A couple of my EU medical and nursing colleagues are becoming rather restless, all this hostility to EU migrants is making them fairly uncomfortable. One or two are talking about going back, or to Germany if we Leave.SouthamObserver said:
Hopefully, this is not the country we will become once Leave have won.nunu said:
If we vote Leave can you fuck off to France please? They are much more tolerant than us I guess.Roger said:The damage is done. Basing a campaign on an overtly racist premise doesn't mean everyone who supports LEAVE is a racist but it does mean they've been happy to give their support to a racist campaign.
We'll all know much more about our neigbours than we do at the moment and by the same token the rest of the world will know much more about us.
We have to balance population growth and expansion with planning for infrastructure and maintaining good community cohesion.
My wife is a dual-national Bulgarian and is voting Leave. She was convinced by the democratic arguments.
Maybe I was naive in thinking this campaign wouldn't get so bitter and nasty.
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