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Is it me or do all the BBC females bar Emily look like Davina McCall?0
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What I meant was that any country could use it as an excuse.john_zims said:@foxinsoxuk
'A proposal to let in Turkey without meeting all the criteria would be a very clear reason for veto, not even a controversial one.'
There was no veto when several of the countries that joined the Euro failed to meet the basic requirements.
When the French & Dutch rejected the EU constitution the EU just changed the name of the document.
If Brussels want Turkey in the EU you know perfectly well they will find a way, whether that be watering down the conditions or finding a way around a possible veto.
Its not going to happen though, as Turkey is playing the same game. Turkey doesn't really want to join, just has to pretend so that the govt can keep Istanbul onside.0 -
Well Lord Sugar just outed himself as an utter shit0
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There's a ComRes phone poll out tomorrow at 10pm0
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They have different tactics and agendas and visions for the Tory Party.Jobabob said:Anyone know the history between Ruth and Boris. Apparently she loathes him
Both are big tent Tories. Both want to expand the party beyond its stereotypical support. Both want to go about it a completely different way.
This is probably due to their backgrounds and the political scene in which they operate. But each is anathema to the other.0 -
Those hands look more lizard than human.Scott_P said:0 -
Lord Sugar has just proven David Cameron's maxim about Twitter0
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Bloody hell, the cricket is exciting0
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What happened?Slackbladder said:Well Lord Sugar just outed himself as an utter shit
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Your future in reptilian claws. Hideous image.Scott_P said:0 -
Isn't he a remainer ?TheScreamingEagles said:Lord Sugar has just proven David Cameron's maxim about Twitter
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Boris delivered the knock out blow of the night at the end.0
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https://twitter.com/Lord_Sugar/status/745351864762392576Chameleon said:
What happened?Slackbladder said:Well Lord Sugar just outed himself as an utter shit
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Thought it was a much closer debate than last time. Leave good on the economy, Remain suprisingly good on immigration. Leave perhaps slightly better on the last question.geoffw said:Ruth no match for Boris.
Sadiq no match for Gisela.
Frances no match for Andrea.0 -
YupPulpstar said:
Isn't he a remainer ?TheScreamingEagles said:Lord Sugar has just proven David Cameron's maxim about Twitter
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@markchapman: Looking like #fra #eng #ger #esp and #ita all in same half of draw now #euro2016
Wales 60/1...0 -
Just seen it. That is very embarrassing. What a twat.Chameleon said:
What happened?Slackbladder said:Well Lord Sugar just outed himself as an utter shit
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Final assessment.
Stuart excellent in an understated, solid way.
Davidson best performer by a country mile (great Boris closer notwithstanding), not everything she tried came off, but I get the hype now.
Boris was Boris - he stumbled at times, was pushy and rude, funny and inspiring, he's not great in debates but he brings an element that is very useful.
Leadsom - Dull and repetitious, but seemed calm and rational.
Khan - not entirely without merit, but not stellar.
Grady - She may be a brilliant woman. I wouldn't know, she's bloody awful as a speaker. Furtive, whiny and patronising. Other than that, a good effort (and she cannot help her voice).
It matters not of course, each playing to their own side, and undecideds probably won't see any of it at all, hell Its the first one I've watched and I do care about politics, but nothing terminal for either side.0 -
Cruel. Very very cruel.Jonathan said:Farron should be on the stage. He could carry the entire LD vote. Both of them.
But funny!
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Always find it distasteful when people call others by names they themselves have chosen not to use (Gideon, for example).TheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/Lord_Sugar/status/745351864762392576Chameleon said:
What happened?Slackbladder said:Well Lord Sugar just outed himself as an utter shit
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Just seen it, lamentable tw@tter car crash.TheScreamingEagles said:
YupPulpstar said:
Isn't he a remainer ?TheScreamingEagles said:Lord Sugar has just proven David Cameron's maxim about Twitter
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Did think about getting one. Didn't want turds posted through the door. Shy Remainer.KentRising said:
The guy owns an EU flag??! Mentalist.Casino_Royale said:Anecdote: I saw a WWC neighbour in ex-local authority house near me has taken down his England flag today from his flagpole, and put up an EU flag instead. Drove past it on the way home.
Terrible omen. Feel sick.0 -
Hellish group for us.Scott_P said:@markchapman: Looking like #fra #eng #ger #esp and #ita all in same half of draw now #euro2016
Wales 60/1...0 -
I find Gisela Stuart very odd. Curious manner, or it could be cultural misunderstanding of her german manner.0
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Gove backtracking on the BNP cash0
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Cheers. Yes, from your perspective it may well be a non-issue in your lifetime. I'm not physically in tip-top condition but I do rather hope to live long enough for it to be an issue :-)Barnesian said:
I'm quite old so 20 years max.MyBurningEars said:
You are of course correct that Turkey is not currently heading in a European direction.
"In our lifetime" is a bit extreme - depends how soon you are planning to die, I suppose, but Bulgaria and Romania came into the EU despite many failings and naysayers saying that it would take decades given their corruption and poor legal and democratic structures. ...
Given a change in electoral direction, and 10 years of Post-Erdoganism, it's hardly inconceivable that Turkey could join the EU.
If EU types want us to believe that Turkey is a non-issue, they should quit saying how much they support Turkish membership in the long run, and quit their silly pretences of progressing accession negotiations in exchange for Turkish cooperation over e.g. the migrant crisis. (Frankly I'd much rather the EU stood up for the democracy and human rights its supporters claim are oh so special to them, and tell Erdogan he's being a dictatorial little **** and accession is shelved until he sorts out his treatment of journalists, political opponents and ethnic minorities. But fat chance of that.)
I very much agree with your last para.
To be honest I'm not fussed in particular whether Turkey joins the EU or not. But if it causes the Remain side grief, that's all they deserve for both senior Lab and Con figures for the past goodness-knows-how-many years doing the two-faced "Of course we support Turkish accession!/Of course the Turks aren't going to join, it's a non-issue, anyway don't forget we have a veto and know how to use it!" depending on who their audience is. Doubly so for the failure to stand up to Erdogan as he tests what he can get away with. If Turkish accession is genuinely not in prospect, why not cancel the negotiations for it? If you won't do that, why should we trust that you (or in fact, your successor two or three times removed) is going to make any use of this veto you keep vaunting?
If Remain types are upset that "Leave's lies about Turkey" are costing them votes among the shallow-minded numbskull section of the electorate, I won't be crying for them in sympathy. They have a deeply pro-remain PM who could have neutralised the issue for good, and an EU functionocracy whose grand warblings about human rights would have looked far more impressive if they'd had the moral courage, years ago, to neutralise it for him.0 -
Well-staged Boris finale which will have helped Leave with those who stuck it out to the end. I think Leave edged it, but whether by enough, who knows?0
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Cameron was so right about Twitter.TheScreamingEagles said:
YupPulpstar said:
Isn't he a remainer ?TheScreamingEagles said:Lord Sugar has just proven David Cameron's maxim about Twitter
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Turkey 2-0. Think NI through?0
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The thing that makes this debate toxic isn't that the sides disagree or indeed that they have different views of what the evidence is, it is the "you're an ignorant B'stard" "You're a complete racist" argument. It isn't grown up or pleasant. It need not be like that.kle4 said:
Well, older people always say that, don't they?BenedictWhite said:
The referendum has been awful because of the people making the case. The 1975 one was, I am told, much more civilised.kle4 said:
The referendum has been awful, but we need to have this debate - clearly 50% of people want to leave, what good comes from ignoring that rather than taking it on?NickPalmer said:
You actually like this referendum and wish we'd had it sooner? There speaks a torture porn author.SeanT said:
F*cks like you are the reason we are here. If you had allowed a vote on the EU Constitution we would have stalled EU integration, and we wouldn't be faced with this hideous binary decision.NickPalmer said:Leadsom grinning as smugly as Osborne on a bad day.
Do you now realise this?
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Match tied!0
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Unsurprising ; and also unsurprising as the source of the cash, given his campaign.Scott_P said:Gove backtracking on the BNP cash
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Amazing finish in the cricket.
Yorkshire's Liam Plunkett saves England's bacon0 -
Ruth is the most unlikely Tory I think in the history of Tories. She is an absolute belter. She carries integrity, humour, down to earthiness, excellent communication, a good voice, and credibility in spades.Barnesian said:
Scotland produces some bloody good female politicians.
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Wow, biggest five sides all the the same half of the draw. Someone's going to be very disappointed to go home early.Scott_P said:@markchapman: Looking like #fra #eng #ger #esp and #ita all in same half of draw now #euro2016
Wales 60/1...0 -
Her anti-EU convictions seem a bit too visceral given her background.RealBritain said:I find Gisela Stuart very odd. Curious manner, or it could be cultural misunderstanding of her german manner.
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I thought the basic format was broken, with the debate being put on pause so they could have another mini-debate about the debate, during the debate.kle4 said:Final assessment.
Stuart excellent in an understated, solid way.
Davidson best performer by a country mile (great Boris closer notwithstanding), not everything she tried came off, but I get the hype now.
Boris was Boris - he stumbled at times, was pushy and rude, funny and inspiring, he's not great in debates but he brings an element that is very useful.
Leadsom - Dull and repetitious, but seemed calm and rational.
Khan - not entirely without merit, but not stellar.
Grady - She may be a brilliant woman. I wouldn't know, she's bloody awful as a speaker. Furtive, whiny and patronising. Other than that, a good effort (and she cannot help her voice).
It matters not of course, each playing to their own side, and undecideds probably won't see any of it at all, hell Its the first one I've watched and I do care about politics, but nothing terminal for either side.
Odd.
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A tie!! Incredible.0
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Eng no doubt, we're used to it!Sandpit said:
Wow, biggest five sides all the the same half of the draw. Someone's going to be very disappointed to go home early.Scott_P said:@markchapman: Looking like #fra #eng #ger #esp and #ita all in same half of draw now #euro2016
Wales 60/1...0 -
I love her accent/voice.RealBritain said:I find Gisela Stuart very odd. Curious manner, or it could be cultural misunderstanding of her german manner.
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Anti-immigrant Remainers piping up.0
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Someone asked why Hannan is not up there. I think it may be down to his NHS comments on Fox News a few years ago. A massive weakness which would be badly exposed.0
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Norn Iron qualify for the last 160
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Doesn't change much for us from last night. Spain play Italy next round so one of them goes out (but yes I would have preferred to be in the other half!)RobD said:
Hellish group for us.Scott_P said:@markchapman: Looking like #fra #eng #ger #esp and #ita all in same half of draw now #euro2016
Wales 60/1...0 -
Yes, something odd there, I think also.williamglenn said:
Her anti-EU convictions seem a bit too visceral given her background.RealBritain said:I find Gisela Stuart very odd. Curious manner, or it could be cultural misunderstanding of her german manner.
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Blimey! I've just reread my copy of that - no mention at all of how to vote! Go Labour! There is hope for us yet!Concanvasser said:I have just had an email from the Labour party (i paid 3 quid to vote for Jez) reminding me there is an election on Thursday.
It says the election is important. It allows me help to find my polling station and suggests I make a plan for when I vote.
NO WHERE does it suggest I vote Remain.
Also says that (a) the party knows a significant number of supporters are for leave and (b) we are planning to all still be mates afterwards0 -
Some muppet called the referendum during the footie... Who knows who was watching.SouthamObserver said:Not a gamechanger. We all heard our own side more than the other one. On that basis, good for Leave.
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Whoa. 6 to tie!!!!!0
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WWhat a finish in the cricket!!!!!0
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It has been done before in the UK more than once. See Henry VI for example. Henry VIII is probably the biggest example of career (or at least dynastic, which to him were probably the same thing) ambition that changed the course of English history. I am sure you can think of others there are lots of them running down to modern times.williamglenn said:
He could change the course of history just on the basis of a career calculation.GIN1138 said:Ovation for Boris!
Mind you, I have offered Mr. Observer a bet that Boris Johnson will not be PM.0 -
What an utter tool Sugar is.RobD said:
Always find it distasteful when people call others by names they themselves have chosen not to use (Gideon, for example).TheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/Lord_Sugar/status/745351864762392576Chameleon said:
What happened?Slackbladder said:Well Lord Sugar just outed himself as an utter shit
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I am a convinced Leaver but Chuka is as good as Labour has. By a distance.0
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Football punting isn't my speciality, but...Sandpit said:
Wow, biggest five sides all the the same half of the draw. Someone's going to be very disappointed to go home early.Scott_P said:@markchapman: Looking like #fra #eng #ger #esp and #ita all in same half of draw now #euro2016
Wales 60/1...
Presumably that indicates some EW value on the outsiders in the other half of the tournament?
Bookies still offering 1/20 -
That might well be true....poor labour!DavidL said:I am a convinced Leaver but Chuka is as good as Labour has. By a distance.
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ex-smoker syndromewilliamglenn said:
Her anti-EU convictions seem a bit too visceral given her background.RealBritain said:I find Gisela Stuart very odd. Curious manner, or it could be cultural misunderstanding of her german manner.
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She spent 15 months in Brussels negotiating the EU Constitution on behalf of HMG. She said that experience changed her view on the EU.williamglenn said:
Her anti-EU convictions seem a bit too visceral given her background.RealBritain said:I find Gisela Stuart very odd. Curious manner, or it could be cultural misunderstanding of her german manner.
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No. Sugar was just being post-modern, using the familiar verbal tics of Leavers against one of their own to draw attention to said tics.Pulpstar said:
Just seen it, lamentable tw@tter car crash.TheScreamingEagles said:
YupPulpstar said:
Isn't he a remainer ?TheScreamingEagles said:Lord Sugar has just proven David Cameron's maxim about Twitter
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What better time to peruse PB?NickPalmer said:0 -
Wow- what an end to the cricket0
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Boris got THE soundbite. Ruth was an impressive debater. FWIW I found the Labour speakers reached me most of all unsurprisingly.
The biggest losers were the MPs that didn't take part.0 -
I'd choose Liz Hurley to be chained to.Toms said:0 -
If that isn't a nod for Labour to vote Leave then I don't know what is!RochdalePioneers said:
Blimey! I've just reread my copy of that - no mention at all of how to vote! Go Labour! There is hope for us yet!Concanvasser said:I have just had an email from the Labour party (i paid 3 quid to vote for Jez) reminding me there is an election on Thursday.
It says the election is important. It allows me help to find my polling station and suggests I make a plan for when I vote.
NO WHERE does it suggest I vote Remain.
Also says that (a) the party knows a significant number of supporters are for leave and (b) we are planning to all still be mates afterwards0 -
Labour's great Black hope raving on about the BNP...
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Go on, do tell... Got a link?TheScreamingEagles said:Lord Sugar has just proven David Cameron's maxim about Twitter
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I thought that after the 1st debate, but the next day I was leafleting (for Leave) on a local council estate, and the people I spoke to thought she was great.RealBritain said:I find Gisela Stuart very odd. Curious manner, or it could be cultural misunderstanding of her german manner.
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Corbyn really is an closet outer isnt he.... Thats amazingMarqueeMark said:
If that isn't a nod for Labour to vote Leave then I don't know what is!RochdalePioneers said:
Blimey! I've just reread my copy of that - no mention at all of how to vote! Go Labour! There is hope for us yet!Concanvasser said:I have just had an email from the Labour party (i paid 3 quid to vote for Jez) reminding me there is an election on Thursday.
It says the election is important. It allows me help to find my polling station and suggests I make a plan for when I vote.
NO WHERE does it suggest I vote Remain.
Also says that (a) the party knows a significant number of supporters are for leave and (b) we are planning to all still be mates afterwards0 -
Very good, as long as you're not out of arm's length. Anyway, I don't suppose one has much choice when he's kidnapped.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
I'd choose Liz Hurley to be chained to.Toms said:0 -
@tnewtondunn: Pretty massive impromptu dust up ongoing now in #BBCDebate spin room between Michael Gove and Will Straw. https://t.co/W9Uh3LIeYH0
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Agreed. Unpleasant tweet - hell, she's been here for 40 years (more than some of us English-born folks).RobD said:
Always find it distasteful when people call others by names they themselves have chosen not to use (Gideon, for example).TheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/Lord_Sugar/status/745351864762392576Chameleon said:
What happened?Slackbladder said:Well Lord Sugar just outed himself as an utter shit
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Living in Scotland we know what a performer Ruth Davidson is. I hope whatever the side of the referendum you're on you can see that she is formidable. A real life back story, served in the forces, articulate. One to watch0
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It would make sense. One team from the "other" side of the draw will definitely make the final, and at least four of the big five sides won't. I'm not betting on this either, but might take a look if I get a payout on Friday.Pong said:
Football punting isn't my speciality, but...Sandpit said:
Wow, biggest five sides all the the same half of the draw. Someone's going to be very disappointed to go home early.Scott_P said:@markchapman: Looking like #fra #eng #ger #esp and #ita all in same half of draw now #euro2016
Wales 60/1...
Presumably that indicates some EW value on the outsiders in the other half of the tournament?
Bookies still offering 1/20 -
She seems to be in some sort of cultural conflict. May account for her oddly detached but almost simultaneously overemotional manner, I think. Odd.El_Dave said:
She spent 15 months in Brussels negotiating the EU Constitution on behalf of HMG. She said that experience changed her view on the EU.williamglenn said:
Her anti-EU convictions seem a bit too visceral given her background.RealBritain said:I find Gisela Stuart very odd. Curious manner, or it could be cultural misunderstanding of her german manner.
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Yeah, its a low bar but he has a brain, is articulate, can think on his feet. That is enough these days, it really is.Slackbladder said:
That might well be true....poor labour!DavidL said:I am a convinced Leaver but Chuka is as good as Labour has. By a distance.
The days of Denis Heally and serious Labour people are long gone.0 -
BenedictWhite said:
Go on, do tell... Got a link?TheScreamingEagles said:Lord Sugar has just proven David Cameron's maxim about Twitter
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So Khan got THE soundbite after all.0
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BenedictWhite said:
The referendum has been awful because of the people making the case. The 1975 one was, I am told, much more civilised.kle4 said:
The referendum has been awful, but we need to have this debate - clearly 50% of people want to leave, what good comes from ignoring that rather than taking it on?NickPalmer said:
You actually like this referendum and wish we'd had it sooner? There speaks a torture porn author.SeanT said:
F*cks like you are the reason we are here. If you had allowed a vote on the EU Constitution we would have stalled EU integration, and we wouldn't be faced with this hideous binary decision.NickPalmer said:Leadsom grinning as smugly as Osborne on a bad day.
Do you now realise this?
We believed what politicians told us then.BenedictWhite said:
The referendum has been awful because of the people making the case. The 1975 one was, I am told, much more civilised.kle4 said:
The referendum has been awful, but we need to have this debate - clearly 50% of people want to leave, what good comes from ignoring that rather than taking it on?NickPalmer said:
You actually like this referendum and wish we'd had it sooner? There speaks a torture porn author.SeanT said:
F*cks like you are the reason we are here. If you had allowed a vote on the EU Constitution we would have stalled EU integration, and we wouldn't be faced with this hideous binary decision.NickPalmer said:Leadsom grinning as smugly as Osborne on a bad day.
Do you now realise this?0 -
From a helpful BBC sureJonathan said:So Khan got THE soundbite after all.
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Gove really does master the "punch me" expression, doesn't he?Scott_P said:@tnewtondunn: Pretty massive impromptu dust up ongoing now in #BBCDebate spin room between Michael Gove and Will Straw. https://t.co/W9Uh3LIeYH
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I agree. It's unlikely that I'll ever vote for her now, though.ExiledInScotland said:Living in Scotland we know what a performer Ruth Davidson is. I hope whatever the side of the referendum you're on you can see that she is formidable. A real life back story, served in the forces, articulate. One to watch
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