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TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

Scott_P said:

Casino_Royale said:

No side that expected to win comfortably would have had supporters discussing ways in which Parliament could ignore the result.


(1) Talk of ignoring the result
(2) Total saturation of Canary Wharf yesterday with adverts to vote Remain
(3) Cameron pushing a Little England, Greater Britain line
(4) Last minute press conference by PM
(5) Pushing out voter registration deadline

So if Remain win by 10-20 points, which nefarious skulduggery will have done it?

I'm not falling prey to hubris but I don't think that's where we're heading.

If you doubt my sincerity, check my entry into the pb.com competition where I predicted 58/42 to Remain.

Both TSE and the originator of Vapid Bilge had Remain at over 60%

Point of order, my prediction was Remain by around 12-15%, which is Remain on tops 57.5%

That's your prediction now, it wasn't then.

It was my hope and aspiration, I wasn't expecting the Farage lite duplicitous foghorn Boris and Gove are playing on Turkey.

I thought they were better than that.

Ah, there we have it.

You might remember my other prediction from February. If Leave were spending the last few weeks of the referendum talking exclusively about immigration/Muslims then it was purely a core vote strategy by Leave in anticipation of a shellacking.

Oh you're a Muslim aren't you, TSE?

*innocent face*

What does it mean to REMAIN or LEAVE?

REMAIN is young, sexy, cosmopolitan

LEAVE is sweaty, shouty, swivel-eyed

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

Scott_P said:

Casino_Royale said:

No side that expected to win comfortably would have had supporters discussing ways in which Parliament could ignore the result.


(1) Talk of ignoring the result
(2) Total saturation of Canary Wharf yesterday with adverts to vote Remain
(3) Cameron pushing a Little England, Greater Britain line
(4) Last minute press conference by PM
(5) Pushing out voter registration deadline

So if Remain win by 10-20 points, which nefarious skulduggery will have done it?

I'm not falling prey to hubris but I don't think that's where we're heading.

If you doubt my sincerity, check my entry into the pb.com competition where I predicted 58/42 to Remain.

Both TSE and the originator of Vapid Bilge had Remain at over 60%

Point of order, my prediction was Remain by around 12-15%, which is Remain on tops 57.5%

That's your prediction now, it wasn't then.

It was my hope and aspiration, I wasn't expecting the Farage lite duplicitous foghorn Boris and Gove are playing on Turkey.

I thought they were better than that.

Ah, there we have it.

You might remember my other prediction from February. If Leave were spending the last few weeks of the referendum talking exclusively about immigration/Muslims then it was purely a core vote strategy by Leave in anticipation of a shellacking.

We have a lot of other evidence that seems to suggest otherwise.

And Gove on Friday night talked about the positive case for Leave, "Project Hope", so.. no.

welshowl said:

CarlottaVance said:

David_Evershed said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Gibraltar also has a different constitutional relationship with the UK, than Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.

Gibraltar is an Overseas Territory (along with your Falklands, Diego Garcia, Bermuda et al.)

Man, Guernsey and Jersey are Crown Dependencies.

Do people in the IoM and Channel Isles get a vote in the referendum then?

Channel Islands no - because they are not in the EU (apart from the Customs Union) and are not part of the UK.

If it was an organisation chart, the Channel Islands would report directly to the Queen....

Emerges boldly from pedant's corner.

The Queen? You mean the Duke of Normandy surely in their case? (Oddly she is the Duke I think and not the Duchess - go figure).

That is a popularly held, but possibly mistaken, view:

The title of duke of Normandy was renounced by Henry III in 1259, and removed from his seal and official styles in 1260. It was never again used in the official styles of his successors, except in a few homages by Norman vassals to Edward III in 1356, and by Henry V, occasionally, in documents concerning occupied Normandy between 1417 and 1419. Furthermore, in both instances the use of the title was indistinguishable from the English king's claim to the throne of France, and hence was unrelated to the title held until 1259.
In over 750 years, it was used once by an English sovereign to describe himself in his relation to the Channel islands.

There is no trace of its use for the past 390 years.

Loyal subjects in the Islands, just as those in Lancashire, may well toast their Queen as "Duke". But that does not make her one, any more than the people of Vanuatu who worship the duke of Edinburgh as a god make him one.

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/royalstyle_uk.htm#Normandy

Freggles said:

What does it mean to REMAIN or LEAVE?

REMAIN is young, sexy, cosmopolitan

LEAVE is sweaty, shouty, swivel-eyed

Remain is magic, Leave is tragic.

TOPPING said:

TOPPING said:

Indigo said:

TOPPING said:

MP_SE said:

Pew Reseach have found that only 6% of British people want more powers transferred to the EU. It is quite surprising how few people realise that the EU is a political project whose ultimate aim is ever closer union.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/07/euroskepticism-beyond-brexit/

Or that the UK has achieved special status via an opt out from that ever closer union.

How many of the British public do you figure are aware of that detail ?

0.000001%

Which supports my point that people are voting emotively because the EU is a convenient bogeyman whom it is easy to blame for any number of other things, from a lack of school places, to the preponderance of the WWC appearing on Jeremy Kyle.

A case in point (apologies to respond to my own post...having fun here...) - Nigel's latest tweet that we would need to build a new home every four minutes to accommodate current immigration levels.

The UK has suffered a housing shortage for the past, oh 30 years (ask tim for details). But now, it is the fault of the immigrants and hence we should vote to leave the EU.

Truly he is despicable and I very rarely say that about politicians.

Do you deny his claim - if so you are basically doing an ad hominem attack.

GIN1138 said:

nunu said:

Just looking over the archives for April 2015 before the GE, and Ave_It was predicting another 1992- Tories 38% and Labour28% I wonder how right even he thought he was?
I wonder what he is predicting for the ref?

Ave_It came out for LEAVE a few nights ago!

Most important intervention of the campaign, IMO...

Ave It is awesome.
The fact that he has bought me the odd beer at a PB drinks do is entirely unconnected.

Top Gear -

having watched the second episode, it's worse than the first one. The 'star in a rallycross car' segment is MUCH too long, among other problems.

Sabine wasn't involved this week. Instead we had 3 musicians, and (presumably because they couldn't find a conjuror and a steel band) Eddie Jordan, who was woefully out of his depth and looked like a refugee from a Punch and Judy show.

Get Sabine back and have a regular cast of no more than 3.

As always, the fundamental problem was, is, and probably will remain, Chris Evans. He is out of his depth, does not have the skill or gravitas to carry the show on his back. He is much more suited to Top 40 radio than a TV role.

Finally, I have to say it: Top Gear US is now better than Top Gear UK. Why? Because it's based on 3 guys cocking about and teasing each other. Maybe that's an idea the BBC could pursue.

We are promised major changes in episode 3 next week. One can only hope. The show is being panned and ratings are down world wide.

Hurry up Amazon - we are more than ready!

weejonnie said:

TOPPING said:

TOPPING said:

Indigo said:

TOPPING said:

MP_SE said:

Pew Reseach have found that only 6% of British people want more powers transferred to the EU. It is quite surprising how few people realise that the EU is a political project whose ultimate aim is ever closer union.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/07/euroskepticism-beyond-brexit/

Or that the UK has achieved special status via an opt out from that ever closer union.

How many of the British public do you figure are aware of that detail ?

0.000001%

Which supports my point that people are voting emotively because the EU is a convenient bogeyman whom it is easy to blame for any number of other things, from a lack of school places, to the preponderance of the WWC appearing on Jeremy Kyle.

A case in point (apologies to respond to my own post...having fun here...) - Nigel's latest tweet that we would need to build a new home every four minutes to accommodate current immigration levels.

The UK has suffered a housing shortage for the past, oh 30 years (ask tim for details). But now, it is the fault of the immigrants and hence we should vote to leave the EU.

Truly he is despicable and I very rarely say that about politicians.

Do you deny his claim - if so you are basically doing an ad hominem attack.

We have a housing shortage in the UK, and have done for many years. Certainly since before the accession countries joined the EU.

The failure has been in successive governments not building enough houses, then and now. Nige is using immigrants as a scapegoat.

So yes, I'll go with the ad hominem. Happy to.

weejonnie said:

There are 15 X 24 - 4 minute periods in a day = 360
That means there are 131,400 such periods in a year.

Immigration is 335000 (minimum) - so 1 house for nearly every three immigrants seems reasonable.

So easily covered by the promise from each government for the past 20 years (at least) to build their famous 200,000 new homes a year.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

Scott_P said:

Casino_Royale said:

No side that expected to win comfortably would have had supporters discussing ways in which Parliament could ignore the result.


(1) Talk of ignoring the result
(2) Total saturation of Canary Wharf yesterday with adverts to vote Remain
(3) Cameron pushing a Little England, Greater Britain line
(4) Last minute press conference by PM
(5) Pushing out voter registration deadline

So if Remain win by 10-20 points, which nefarious skulduggery will have done it?

I'm not falling prey to hubris but I don't think that's where we're heading.

If you doubt my sincerity, check my entry into the pb.com competition where I predicted 58/42 to Remain.

Both TSE and the originator of Vapid Bilge had Remain at over 60%

Point of order, my prediction was Remain by around 12-15%, which is Remain on tops 57.5%

That's your prediction now, it wasn't then.

It was my hope and aspiration, I wasn't expecting the Farage lite duplicitous foghorn Boris and Gove are playing on Turkey.

I thought they were better than that.

Ah, there we have it.

You might remember my other prediction from February. If Leave were spending the last few weeks of the referendum talking exclusively about immigration/Muslims then it was purely a core vote strategy by Leave in anticipation of a shellacking.

Actually it is hitting Leave's strongest point at the most effective time.

CarlottaVance said:

welshowl said:

CarlottaVance said:

David_Evershed said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Gibraltar also has a different constitutional relationship with the UK, than Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.

Gibraltar is an Overseas Territory (along with your Falklands, Diego Garcia, Bermuda et al.)

Man, Guernsey and Jersey are Crown Dependencies.

Do people in the IoM and Channel Isles get a vote in the referendum then?

Channel Islands no - because they are not in the EU (apart from the Customs Union) and are not part of the UK.

If it was an organisation chart, the Channel Islands would report directly to the Queen....

Emerges boldly from pedant's corner.

The Queen? You mean the Duke of Normandy surely in their case? (Oddly she is the Duke I think and not the Duchess - go figure).

That is a popularly held, but possibly mistaken, view:

The title of duke of Normandy was renounced by Henry III in 1259, and removed from his seal and official styles in 1260. It was never again used in the official styles of his successors, except in a few homages by Norman vassals to Edward III in 1356, and by Henry V, occasionally, in documents concerning occupied Normandy between 1417 and 1419. Furthermore, in both instances the use of the title was indistinguishable from the English king's claim to the throne of France, and hence was unrelated to the title held until 1259.
In over 750 years, it was used once by an English sovereign to describe himself in his relation to the Channel islands.

There is no trace of its use for the past 390 years.

Loyal subjects in the Islands, just as those in Lancashire, may well toast their Queen as "Duke". But that does not make her one, any more than the people of Vanuatu who worship the duke of Edinburgh as a god make him one.

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/royalstyle_uk.htm#Normandy

Retreats less boldly to pedant's corner (!)

Is she still Lord of Man though?

PM surrounded by friends....

https://twitter.com/eyespymp/status/740563695663734786

TheScreamingEagles said:

RobD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Indigo said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

The quietness of Remainers has more to do with the fact that quite a few of them have evidently decided that they have better things to do with their time than hang around somewhere where they routinely get called quislings and traitors by swivel-eyed Leavers.

I'm loving it. It fortifies my soul when I go out campaigning. Which I'm going to do tonight, again.

The interesting thing is how few PB leavers seem to be out campaigning for Leave.

So let me get this right.

First there was the 9m pound brochure
Most of the world's great and the good telling us the world would end
World War 3 "could" happen we are told
Economic Armageddon "could" happen we are told
Refugee camps in Kent "could" happen we are told
Leave have all the unsavory types like Farage
Remain have all the saints like the ABoC and Obama
Three months of campaigning with the full force of the civil service
AND the Leavers can't be bothered to go out and canvass apparently.

That must explain why Remain is 20% ahead in the polls.

Christ, you must come to the UK, living in The Philippines really is distorting your perception of reality.

If I come back and find Britain is not the PB Tory utopia I imagined I will be very disappointed.

It won't be PB Tory utopia until George Osborne becomes PM.

But come to Yorkshire, that is pure utopia.

GICIPM

FrancisUrquhart said:

Tim_B said:

Finally, I have to say it: Top Gear US is now better than Top Gear UK. Why? Because it's based on 3 guys cocking about and teasing each other. Maybe that's an idea the BBC could pursue.

Wooooo steady on now...its crap, but its not THAT crap...

Afraid so - watched a couple of episodes of the new series last night. The are improving even as the new Top Gear heads downhill rapidly.

Scott_P said:

I would rather watch Top gear...

@bbcquestiontime: Here's this week's #bbcqt panel in full: Chris Grayling @hilarybennmp @Nigel_Farage @eddieizzard @allisonpearson https://t.co/sLyhV9njqH

https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/738043854247604224

welshowl said:

CarlottaVance said:

welshowl said:

CarlottaVance said:

David_Evershed said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Gibraltar also has a different constitutional relationship with the UK, than Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.

Gibraltar is an Overseas Territory (along with your Falklands, Diego Garcia, Bermuda et al.)

Man, Guernsey and Jersey are Crown Dependencies.

Do people in the IoM and Channel Isles get a vote in the referendum then?

Channel Islands no - because they are not in the EU (apart from the Customs Union) and are not part of the UK.

If it was an organisation chart, the Channel Islands would report directly to the Queen....

Emerges boldly from pedant's corner.

The Queen? You mean the Duke of Normandy surely in their case? (Oddly she is the Duke I think and not the Duchess - go figure).

That is a popularly held, but possibly mistaken, view:

The title of duke of Normandy was renounced by Henry III in 1259, and removed from his seal and official styles in 1260. It was never again used in the official styles of his successors, except in a few homages by Norman vassals to Edward III in 1356, and by Henry V, occasionally, in documents concerning occupied Normandy between 1417 and 1419. Furthermore, in both instances the use of the title was indistinguishable from the English king's claim to the throne of France, and hence was unrelated to the title held until 1259.
In over 750 years, it was used once by an English sovereign to describe himself in his relation to the Channel islands.

There is no trace of its use for the past 390 years.

Loyal subjects in the Islands, just as those in Lancashire, may well toast their Queen as "Duke". But that does not make her one, any more than the people of Vanuatu who worship the duke of Edinburgh as a god make him one.

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/royalstyle_uk.htm#Normandy

Retreats less boldly to pedant's corner (!)

I shouldn't worry - you're in the very best company:

...... HM visiting France, Normandy specifically, in a private capacity.

"peasants in the villages knew they were coming. Some doffed their caps and
shouted "Vive la Duchesse!" (Well, I am Duke of Normandy,' said the Queen)"


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.talk.royalty/GKy9i2i2yOM/6MMhfg0o1hAJ

FrancisUrquhart said:

PM surrounded by friends....

https://twitter.com/eyespymp/status/740563695663734786

#Toxic

CarlottaVance said:

welshowl said:

CarlottaVance said:

welshowl said:

CarlottaVance said:

David_Evershed said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Gibraltar also has a different constitutional relationship with the UK, than Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.

Gibraltar is an Overseas Territory (along with your Falklands, Diego Garcia, Bermuda et al.)

Man, Guernsey and Jersey are Crown Dependencies.

Do people in the IoM and Channel Isles get a vote in the referendum then?

Channel Islands no - because they are not in the EU (apart from the Customs Union) and are not part of the UK.

If it was an organisation chart, the Channel Islands would report directly to the Queen....

Emerges boldly from pedant's corner.

The Queen? You mean the Duke of Normandy surely in their case? (Oddly she is the Duke I think and not the Duchess - go figure).

That is a popularly held, but possibly mistaken, view:

The title of duke of Normandy was renounced by Henry III in 1259, and removed from his seal and official styles in 1260. It was never again used in the official styles of his successors, except in a few homages by Norman vassals to Edward III in 1356, and by Henry V, occasionally, in documents concerning occupied Normandy between 1417 and 1419. Furthermore, in both instances the use of the title was indistinguishable from the English king's claim to the throne of France, and hence was unrelated to the title held until 1259.
In over 750 years, it was used once by an English sovereign to describe himself in his relation to the Channel islands.

There is no trace of its use for the past 390 years.

Loyal subjects in the Islands, just as those in Lancashire, may well toast their Queen as "Duke". But that does not make her one, any more than the people of Vanuatu who worship the duke of Edinburgh as a god make him one.

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/royalstyle_uk.htm#Normandy

Retreats less boldly to pedant's corner (!)

I shouldn't worry - you're in the very best company:

...... HM visiting France, Normandy specifically, in a private capacity.

"peasants in the villages knew they were coming. Some doffed their caps and
shouted "Vive la Duchesse!" (Well, I am Duke of Normandy,' said the Queen)"


https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.talk.royalty/GKy9i2i2yOM/6MMhfg0o1hAJ

Remerges from pedant's corner.

Well if she says she is that's good enough for me!

YouGov London poll tables are available:

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/bcpps63ha9/EveningStandard_EUReferendum_160606_W.pdf

Headline figures (excl DK/WNV) 57(.4)% Remain, 42(.6)% Leave
but of these: 10/10 Certain to Vote 72% Remain, 79% Leave
None of this differential in turnout has been adjusted for.

Confine the poll to those who declare themselves 10/10 certain to vote (=67% of total, similar to GE turnout levels) and you get a split of 55% Remain 45% Leave.
Not exactly an overwhelming lead for Remain in what should be its best region in England.

RobD said:

Yes, among the chaff are some diamonds.

More diamonds than any other country. Quick, shut the door...

Scott_P said:

RobD said:

Yes, among the chaff are some diamonds.

More diamonds than any other country. Quick, shut the door...

It's be interesting to know what fraction they make up of the total.

Richard_Tyndall said:

RobD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

PM surrounded by friends....

https://twitter.com/eyespymp/status/740563695663734786

Unfairly cropped!

I honestly didn't know Cameron smoked.

Probably started only about a week ago (!). Probably up to 60 a day by now.

welshowl said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

RobD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

PM surrounded by friends....

https://twitter.com/eyespymp/status/740563695663734786

Unfairly cropped!

I honestly didn't know Cameron smoked.

Probably started only about a week ago (!). Probably up to 60 a day by now.

I think he's mentioned smoking at PMQs a couple of times, so it's definitely a long term thing.

Richard_Tyndall said:

RobD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

PM surrounded by friends....

https://twitter.com/eyespymp/status/740563695663734786

Unfairly cropped!

I honestly didn't know Cameron smoked. </

Farage has complained of Dave scrounging his fags before.

weejonnie said:

TOPPING said:

weejonnie said:

There are 15 X 24 - 4 minute periods in a day = 360
That means there are 131,400 such periods in a year.

Immigration is 335000 (minimum) - so 1 house for nearly every three immigrants seems reasonable.

So easily covered by the promise from each government for the past 20 years (at least) to build their famous 200,000 new homes a year.

But that was BEFORE migration shot off - wasn't it!?

Not 100% sure it was. Every government for decades has promised to build more houses. They have failed (remember Avery LP's famous yellow boxes on housing starts, I could find the stats if I could be bothered).

Certainly pre-dated the immigration explosion so it is a pre-existing problem.

MonikerDiCanio said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

RobD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

PM surrounded by friends....

https://twitter.com/eyespymp/status/740563695663734786

Unfairly cropped!

I honestly didn't know Cameron smoked. </

Farage has complained of Dave scrounging his fags before.</p>

A fag at Eton is different to a fag on the Commons terrace....

Richard_Tyndall said:

RobD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

PM surrounded by friends....

https://twitter.com/eyespymp/status/740563695663734786

Unfairly cropped!

I honestly didn't know Cameron smoked.

Neither did I! But a quick google yielded this:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-still-smoke-pm-7023657

Tim_B said:

Top Gear -

having watched the second episode, it's worse than the first one. The 'star in a rallycross car' segment is MUCH too long, among other problems.

Sabine wasn't involved this week. Instead we had 3 musicians, and (presumably because they couldn't find a conjuror and a steel band) Eddie Jordan, who was woefully out of his depth and looked like a refugee from a Punch and Judy show.

Get Sabine back and have a regular cast of no more than 3.

As always, the fundamental problem was, is, and probably will remain, Chris Evans. He is out of his depth, does not have the skill or gravitas to carry the show on his back. He is much more suited to Top 40 radio than a TV role.

Finally, I have to say it: Top Gear US is now better than Top Gear UK. Why? Because it's based on 3 guys cocking about and teasing each other. Maybe that's an idea the BBC could pursue.

We are promised major changes in episode 3 next week. One can only hope. The show is being panned and ratings are down world wide.

Hurry up Amazon - we are more than ready!

The fundamental problem is not Evans per se, it's the fact Clarkson, Hammond, May and Wilman reinvented the old car show format in a style of their choosing and it continued to evolve (note that even early "new" Top Gears look old hat and clunky when viewed now against the slick and polished output until last year). Evans et al needed to come in and reinvent it, and I expected they were going to, he is accomplished enough to do it and had the full force of the BBC (and its £200m pa at stake) to make sure it happened.

Instead they're trying to carry on with the Clarkson et al format and style. That's why the first one was shit, and why viewers didn't tune in for ep 2.

It's sunk, and probably too late now to "reinvent" it as they should have done. Top Gear can only come back from this if Clarkson et al come back. Which I still think will happen, eventually...

Does anyone know when the debate between Boris Johnson and the "ladies" is on and which channel?

LadyBucket said:

Does anyone know when the debate between Boris Johnson and the "ladies" is on and which channel?

ITV tomorrow night I think

Osborne is on with Neil tonight, if I'm not mistaken.

Heard Iain Dale earlier ask Alex Salmond about those Scandinavian countries that are holding evening classes for Muslim men on the way to behave towards western women. He just totally brushed off the question, as he was more interested in smearing Nigel Farage as a racist.

The left have been playing the racist card for years because they know it just shuts down the debate.

justin124 said:

Have just voted Leave by post!
Has the system of Electoral Registration changed in recent years? From memory I had understood that people could only register in respect of the address at which they were living on October 15th of a given year and that such a register came into operation the following February.

Yes, new system means voters under the age of 30 are only allowed to register in a 2 hour window from 10pm to midnight 16 days before the vote - it's a disgrace!

Richard_Tyndall said:

Scott_P said:

@DPJHodges: So just to be clear, the Electoral Commission have also been taken over by the Euro Lizards?

Nope they have been taken over by incompetents. It seems like every election now we are getting issues from them. Add to that the anti-Tory diatribe a few days ago by someone from the EC and you get the impression they are really not in control.

While I do question her neutrality, those posts were from five/six years ago.

justin124 said:

Have just voted Leave by post!
Has the system of Electoral Registration changed in recent years? From memory I had understood that people could only register in respect of the address at which they were living on October 15th of a given year and that such a register came into operation the following February.

Bravo!

weejonnie said:

TOPPING said:

VapidBilge said:

TOPPING said:

weejonnie said:

TOPPING said:

TOPPING said:

Indigo said:

TOPPING said:

MP_SE said:

Pew Reseach have found that only 6% of British people want more powers transferred to the EU. It is quite surprising how few people realise that the EU is a political project whose ultimate aim is ever closer union.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/07/euroskepticism-beyond-brexit/

Or that the UK has achieved special status via an opt out from that ever closer union.

How many of the British public do you figure are aware of that detail ?

0.000001%

Which supports my point that people are voting emotively because the EU is a convenient bogeyman whom it is easy to blame for any number of other things, from a lack of school places, to the preponderance of the WWC appearing on Jeremy Kyle.

A case in point (apologies to respond to my own post...having fun here...) - Nigel's latest tweet that we would need to build a new home every four minutes to accommodate current immigration levels.

The UK has suffered a housing shortage for the past, oh 30 years (ask tim for details). But now, it is the fault of the immigrants and hence we should vote to leave the EU.

Truly he is despicable and I very rarely say that about politicians.

Do you deny his claim - if so you are basically doing an ad hominem attack.

We have a housing shortage in the UK, and have done for many years. Certainly since before the accession countries joined the EU.

The failure has been in successive governments not building enough houses, then and now. Nige is using immigrants as a scapegoat.

Housing shortage? People forced to sleep in parks? I remember when the population of the UK fell.
Population growth in the Naughties was due to immigration. This is unprecedented.

Also, it is morally bankrupt to sympathise with those having trouble housing themselves whilst simultaneously increasing demand for housing through unfettered immigration.

Either we have a housing shortage and need to build houses every four minutes or we don't. Make up your mind.

btw, how much immigration is acceptable for you?

Well you know how crowded London is these days - imagine it with another Million people pushing to get on the Tube in 4 or 5 years time.

Hell on earth - if we don't vote Leave.

I imagine the London underground would be like this train in Japan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0A9-oUoMug

Richard_Tyndall said:

Alanbrooke said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Scott_P said:

@DPJHodges: So just to be clear, the Electoral Commission have also been taken over by the Euro Lizards?

Nope they have been taken over by incompetents. It seems like every election now we are getting issues from them. Add to that the anti-Tory diatribe a few days ago by someone from the EC and you get the impression they are really not in control.

And yet Cameron still lacks the spine to sack any of them.

I think the only one he might be able to sack is the lady at the top and I am not even sure if he has the power to do that. Is the EC part of the Civil Service or is it a quango?

Wikipedia says it is independent of government and answerable to Parliament. Not sure if that puts it outside the Civil Service.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

Scott_P said:

Casino_Royale said:

No side that expected to win comfortably would have had supporters discussing ways in which Parliament could ignore the result.


(1) Talk of ignoring the result
(2) Total saturation of Canary Wharf yesterday with adverts to vote Remain
(3) Cameron pushing a Little England, Greater Britain line
(4) Last minute press conference by PM
(5) Pushing out voter registration deadline

So if Remain win by 10-20 points, which nefarious skulduggery will have done it?

I'm not falling prey to hubris but I don't think that's where we're heading.

If you doubt my sincerity, check my entry into the pb.com competition where I predicted 58/42 to Remain.

Both TSE and the originator of Vapid Bilge had Remain at over 60%

Point of order, my prediction was Remain by around 12-15%, which is Remain on tops 57.5%

That's your prediction now, it wasn't then.

It was my hope and aspiration, I wasn't expecting the Farage lite duplicitous foghorn Boris and Gove are playing on Turkey.

I thought they were better than that.

Ah, there we have it.

You might remember my other prediction from February. If Leave were spending the last few weeks of the referendum talking exclusively about immigration/Muslims then it was purely a core vote strategy by Leave in anticipation of a shellacking.

We have a lot of other evidence that seems to suggest otherwise.

And Gove on Friday night talked about the positive case for Leave, "Project Hope", so.. no.

If immigration really was the most important issue in the country, UKIP would have more than one MP.

Have you ever noticed UKIP have never won a Westminster seat without a defector-incumbent.

And on that note, I'm going to campaign for the Remain. West Yorkshire, brace yourselves.

Why don't you give us actual numbers when you finish, rather than your usual vague hint?

Europe's biggest investor, Mohamed El-Erian on Brexit:

“There are two fundamental divisions of the EU: There’s the British view — that it’s a super free-trade zone, that it’s a destination. Whereas the Germany-France view is that it’s a means to something else — to an ever closer union. These are fundamentally two very different views on what the EU is about. If the referendum [results in the U.K. remaining in the union], we don’t resolve these different views. It means we are going to have tensions over and over again, because they are pursuing two different objectives, within one institutional agreement. So, ironically, over the longer term, an exit may actually solve one of the basic inconsistencies of the European Union.”

http://order-order.com/2016/06/08/europes-biggest-investor-brexit-good-for-eu/

I have crossed the Leave box on my postal vote, signed it and sealed the envelope. I will post it tomorrow morning on the walk up to the station. I am officially a Leave voter!

MP_SE said:

weejonnie said:

TOPPING said:

VapidBilge said:

TOPPING said:

weejonnie said:

TOPPING said:

TOPPING said:

Indigo said:

TOPPING said:

MP_SE said:

Pew Reseach have found that only 6% of British people want more powers transferred to the EU. It is quite surprising how few people realise that the EU is a political project whose ultimate aim is ever closer union.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/07/euroskepticism-beyond-brexit/

Or that the UK has achieved special status via an opt out from that ever closer union.

How many of the British public do you figure are aware of that detail ?

0.000001%

Which supports my point that people are voting emotively because the EU is a convenient bogeyman whom it is easy to blame for any number of other things, from a lack of school places, to the preponderance of the WWC appearing on Jeremy Kyle.

A case in point (apologies to respond to my own post...having fun here...) - Nigel's latest tweet that we would need to build a new home every four minutes to accommodate current immigration levels.

The UK has suffered a housing shortage for the past, oh 30 years (ask tim for details). But now, it is the fault of the immigrants and hence we should vote to leave the EU.

Truly he is despicable and I very rarely say that about politicians.

Do you deny his claim - if so you are basically doing an ad hominem attack.

We have a housing shortage in the UK, and have done for many years. Certainly since before the accession countries joined the EU.

The failure has been in successive governments not building enough houses, then and now. Nige is using immigrants as a scapegoat.

Housing shortage? People forced to sleep in parks? I remember when the population of the UK fell.
Population growth in the Naughties was due to immigration. This is unprecedented.

Also, it is morally bankrupt to sympathise with those having trouble housing themselves whilst simultaneously increasing demand for housing through unfettered immigration.

Either we have a housing shortage and need to build houses every four minutes or we don't. Make up your mind.

btw, how much immigration is acceptable for you?

Well you know how crowded London is these days - imagine it with another Million people pushing to get on the Tube in 4 or 5 years time.

Hell on earth - if we don't vote Leave.

I imagine the London underground would be like this train in Japan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0A9-oUoMug

Well, at least Crossrail opens in 2018-2019

MaxPB said:

I have crossed the Leave box on my postal vote, signed it and sealed the envelope. I will post it tomorrow morning on the walk up to the station. I am officially a Leave voter!

Get your tippex out! There is still time!
Please, please, please
D Cameron.

@justin124

Good to know you voted LEAVE!

Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
On Friday, apparently Stronger In coalition has agreed that it will be Labour's turn to "dominate" the media. *Ed Miliband* is the star turn