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All naughty - and moulting... 18yrs &17 yrs old! That's a fine innings so far.hunchman said:
O/T - How are your cats going on Plato? Our two remaining Persians getting very old now - the white will be 18 in 7 weeks time, and our black persian will be 17 around the EU referendum too, her sight is causing concern, and she bumps into a few things, and we can't scatter the munchies for her any longer. But apart from that she's fine bless her.Plato_Says said:Current state of English Council seats (1.29am) Labour 227 (-4) Cons 81 (+5) LibDems 27 (-3) Indy 10 (-4) UKIP 8 (+6) Green 1 (0)
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During the election campaign I have been careful not to say this in public or on the internet before the close of poll, so here it is:
Zac Goldsmith's campaign was offensive, patronising, off-putting, negative and pathetic with its religious and racial profiling and insinuations about Sadiq Khan. I have been confused and in the dark about what his policies really mean on things like housing. If his campaign was so pathetic then I have concerns about his ability to administer and make executive decisions as Mayor of London.
I have felt great reluctance and some resentment about the fact that I was "supposed to" vote for Zac Goldsmith, just because i happen to be a member of the Conservative Party, and for weeks I have been struggling with my decision about how to vote.
On one hand, I wanted to express my dissatisfaction with Zac's campaign, but on the other hand I was not prepared to accept the premise of suggesting that Zac Goldsmith and Sadiq Khan were equally bad. Saying "they're both as bad as each other", and abstaining or spoiling a ballot paper, is a cop-out which for me is not a realistic option. I have also become increasingly conscious of the fact that I am de-facto a member of the Gavin Barwell Party, not the Zac Goldsmith Party.
My options were:
(a) Vote for Zac Goldsmith anyway, despite my reservations;
(b) Register a protest by voting for Sian Berry in the 1st round, and transfer to Zac Goldsmith in the 2nd round;
(c) Vote for Sian Berry in the 1st round and perhaps Caroline Pidgeon in the 2nd round;
(d) abstain, or leave the paper blank;
(e) spoil the paper by writing a message;
(f) Vote for Zac Goldsmith, but write a message saying "This is a vote for Zac Goldsmith even though he is a pathetic nauseating twit".
In the end, I decided to do (b).
I couldn't stomach the idea of voting in a way that suggests that Zac Goldsmith and Sadiq Khan were equally bad, so that ruled out (c), (d) or (e).
I didn't want to do (f) or (e) because - having been at the count last two times - I knew it would simply create extra unwanted work for the election staff at the count, who have thousands of doubtful votes to adjudicate already.
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P.S. My parents shared my dissatisfaction with Zac Goldsmith, so they voted Zac 1 and Sian Berry 2 (from the conversation we had, it seems they didn't fully understand the voting system, but they had a vague idea that it was a way of making a protest).
P.P.S. I didn't vote until 2:40pm in the afternoon. I would normally have voted on the dot of 7am, but I still hadn't made a final decision on how to vote until later, and i wanted to sleep on it before making a final decision.0 -
There will be Tory to UKIP movement but more in the manner of Lab to LD after the Iraq War than Lab to SNP after indyref rather than en masse. If Remain win a sterling slide is less likely thoughHYUFD said:
I agree totally - Tory to UKIP en masse after the EU referendum and when the global sovereign debt crisis begins properly and sterling slides. Still think the USD (important) low to come the week after next.hunchman said:FattyBolger said:
Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow Remain
Not sure if I agree, but an interesting line of thought which hadn't occured to me before,
A sterling slide will happen irrespective of what happens on 23rd June over the next 20 months.0 -
Urm, http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/conservativeHYUFD said:
Under FPTP that would make little difference considering most of the northern seats have comfortable Labour majoritiesMortimer said:
Not when Leave wins!HYUFD said:
No way, the difference was in indyref Labour voters were split, Tories overwhelmingly for No, so the SNP's main target was Yes Labour voters, in EU ref Tory voters are split, a clear majority of Labour voters are for Remain, so UKIP's main target will be Leave Tory votersMortimer said:
Disagree totally.HYUFD said:
Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow RemainMortimer said:
My thinking is that WWC are not going to return to a hard left party or a Blairite party either...hunchman said:
UKIP has a wonderful opportunity over the next few years with the WWC vote providing Corbyn and McDonnell continue to head Labour into an electoral cul-de-sacMortimer said:UKIP eating into WWC vote could make all our discussions about Labour needing a centrist leader moot anyway. Might simply be no way back for a party that has abandoned its historic core supporters in favour of identity politics....
Labour: time to put a fork in
For Labour, 2020 in England could be like 2015 in Scotland. Just imagine that....
More seriously, it is not all about voters switching.
It is about previous voters staying at home.
That is how Blair won a landslide in 1997. Tory voters stayed at home.
Imagine if 25% of Labour voters stayed at home in the North in 2020.0 -
The discussion on the BBC is rubbish in terms of results, Sky better on that score but in terms of getting out results on the rolling tracker at the bottom of the screen the Beeb winning hands down!hunchman said:Sky council seats declaration miles behind the Beeb. Hunchman praising the BBC! What's happening!
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Bolton Council @boltoncouncil
Result for Kearsley ward - UKIP party candidate Mark CUNNINGHAM elected #LE2016 #Bolton
Dudley Council @dudleymbc
#Wordsley UKIP Gain #DudleyElections #LE2016 dudley.gov.uk/community/elec…0 -
Labour hold St Helens0
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Less in the way of food bills during moulting......that's about the only thing you can say for it though!Plato_Says said:
All naughty - and moulting... 18yrs &17 yrs old! That's a fine innings so far.hunchman said:
O/T - How are your cats going on Plato? Our two remaining Persians getting very old now - the white will be 18 in 7 weeks time, and our black persian will be 17 around the EU referendum too, her sight is causing concern, and she bumps into a few things, and we can't scatter the munchies for her any longer. But apart from that she's fine bless her.Plato_Says said:Current state of English Council seats (1.29am) Labour 227 (-4) Cons 81 (+5) LibDems 27 (-3) Indy 10 (-4) UKIP 8 (+6) Green 1 (0)
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I can't believe this compare to 2015 spin is being given any credance. It is apples & oranges.0
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Yet it tends to repeat itself, Labour Remain voters are hardly going to switch to UKIP are they!Mortimer said:
Handy hint: the future doesn't have to be like the past....HYUFD said:
There will be Tory to UKIP movement but more in the manner of Lab to LD after the Iraq War than Lab to SNP after indyref rather than en masse. If Remain win a sterling slide is less likely thoughHYUFD said:
I agree totally - Tory to UKIP en masse after the EU referendum and when the global sovereign debt crisis begins properly and sterling slides. Still think the USD (important) low to come the week after next.hunchman said:FattyBolger said:
Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow Remain
Not sure if I agree, but an interesting line of thought which hadn't occured to me before,0 -
Is it bad that this is counting as a good night for SLAB....Scott_P said:@HTScotPol: Labour sources at #edincount reckon Iain Gray has held East Lothian
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All those 23 WWC Remainiacs.....HYUFD said:
Yet it tends to repeat itself, Labour Remain voters are hardly going to switch to UKIP are they!Mortimer said:
Handy hint: the future doesn't have to be like the past....HYUFD said:
There will be Tory to UKIP movement but more in the manner of Lab to LD after the Iraq War than Lab to SNP after indyref rather than en masse. If Remain win a sterling slide is less likely thoughHYUFD said:
I agree totally - Tory to UKIP en masse after the EU referendum and when the global sovereign debt crisis begins properly and sterling slides. Still think the USD (important) low to come the week after next.hunchman said:FattyBolger said:
Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow Remain
Not sure if I agree, but an interesting line of thought which hadn't occured to me before,
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Just like 2016 (Year 1 of the cycle) to 2012 (Year 2 of the cycle) is apples and oranges..... *whistles*FrancisUrquhart said:I can't believe this compare to 2015 spin is being given any credance. It is apples & oranges.
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Looks like the Lib Dems have held Shetland too. The Carmichael thing has not amused the voters.0
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Plaid changed their colours to yellow?0
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UKIP on five wins now
Thurrock Council @thurrockcouncil
Jack Duffin (UKIP) is elected councillor for Stanford East & Corringham Town with a majority of 4960 -
WWC Leave voters will most likely have voted UKIP in 2015 anyway, not Labour, so they are not now technically Labour votersMortimer said:
All those 23 WWC Remainiacs.....HYUFD said:
Yet it tends to repeat itself, Labour Remain voters are hardly going to switch to UKIP are they!Mortimer said:
Handy hint: the future doesn't have to be like the past....HYUFD said:
There will be Tory to UKIP movement but more in the manner of Lab to LD after the Iraq War than Lab to SNP after indyref rather than en masse. If Remain win a sterling slide is less likely thoughHYUFD said:
I agree totally - Tory to UKIP en masse after the EU referendum and when the global sovereign debt crisis begins properly and sterling slides. Still think the USD (important) low to come the week after next.hunchman said:FattyBolger said:
Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow Remain
Not sure if I agree, but an interesting line of thought which hadn't occured to me before,0 -
Josh Halliday @JoshHalliday
Hartlepool results: Labour holds the council. Ukip gained three seats, two of them from Labour.0 -
@JeremyCliffe: 11% swing from Labour to Conservatives in Nuneaton. Worse than last year's general election.0
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Can we please, please move council elections to a five year cycle (and not in general election years)?Danny565 said:
Just like 2016 (Year 1 of the cycle) to 2012 (Year 2 of the cycle) is apples and oranges..... *whistles*FrancisUrquhart said:I can't believe this compare to 2015 spin is being given any credance. It is apples & oranges.
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Nope - there are depths as yet unplumbed by Labour.HYUFD said:
WWC Leave voters will most likely have voted UKIP in 2015 anyway, not Labour, so they are not now technically Labour votersMortimer said:
All those 23 WWC Remainiacs.....HYUFD said:
Yet it tends to repeat itself, Labour Remain voters are hardly going to switch to UKIP are they!Mortimer said:
Handy hint: the future doesn't have to be like the past....HYUFD said:
There will be Tory to UKIP movement but more in the manner of Lab to LD after the Iraq War than Lab to SNP after indyref rather than en masse. If Remain win a sterling slide is less likely thoughHYUFD said:
I agree totally - Tory to UKIP en masse after the EU referendum and when the global sovereign debt crisis begins properly and sterling slides. Still think the USD (important) low to come the week after next.hunchman said:FattyBolger said:
Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow Remain
Not sure if I agree, but an interesting line of thought which hadn't occured to me before,0 -
@AlistairMay: A clear majority in Rutherglen voted for unionist parties. That didn't happen in General Election. #sp160
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LDs saying they think they've won East Fife from SNPDavidL said:Looks like the Lib Dems have held Shetland too. The Carmichael thing has not amused the voters.
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Labour holds Harlow0
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Labour holds Sandwell0
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Labour holds Hartlepool0
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Sky results tracker getting better as the night goes on0
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Wasn't all this nonsense Tony Blair doing?No_Offence_Alan said:
Can we please, please move council elections to a five year cycle (and not in general election years)?Danny565 said:
Just like 2016 (Year 1 of the cycle) to 2012 (Year 2 of the cycle) is apples and oranges..... *whistles*FrancisUrquhart said:I can't believe this compare to 2015 spin is being given any credance. It is apples & oranges.
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Presumably just to stop Danny harking on about it? ;-)No_Offence_Alan said:
Can we please, please move council elections to a five year cycle (and not in general election years)?Danny565 said:
Just like 2016 (Year 1 of the cycle) to 2012 (Year 2 of the cycle) is apples and oranges..... *whistles*FrancisUrquhart said:I can't believe this compare to 2015 spin is being given any credance. It is apples & oranges.
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Mundell: Con vote has doubled in Glasgow.0
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Labour won all wards in Sandwell0
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From 1 to 2?MikeL said:Mundell: Con vote has doubled in Glasgow.
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Labour GAIN Cleadon and East Boldon from the Conservatives on South Tyneside after recount0
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75% or so of Labour voters will vote Remain according to the polls, 55% of Tory voters will vote Leave, who has more to lose to UKIP if it is a close Remain?Mortimer said:
Nope - there are depths as yet unplumbed by Labour.HYUFD said:
WWC Leave voters will most likely have voted UKIP in 2015 anyway, not Labour, so they are not now technically Labour votersMortimer said:
All those 23 WWC Remainiacs.....HYUFD said:
Yet it tends to repeat itself, Labour Remain voters are hardly going to switch to UKIP are they!Mortimer said:
Handy hint: the future doesn't have to be like the past....HYUFD said:
There will be Tory to UKIP movement but more in the manner of Lab to LD after the Iraq War than Lab to SNP after indyref rather than en masse. If Remain win a sterling slide is less likely thoughHYUFD said:
I agree totally - Tory to UKIP en masse after the EU referendum and when the global sovereign debt crisis begins properly and sterling slides. Still think the USD (important) low to come the week after next.hunchman said:FattyBolger said:
Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow Remain
Not sure if I agree, but an interesting line of thought which hadn't occured to me before,0 -
Carwyn Jones on Sky explaining away poor Labour results tonight that 2011 was a high water mark!0
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Mundell says Scottish Tory surge will push them into second place - BBC
"well on course ...."0 -
Harlow results Lab 19 Tories 12 UKIP 2. No net change0
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Recount at St Albans: St Peter's, and also in Sopwell.0
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Bury Lab -4 Tories +20
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Obviously Ruth Davidson moving out of the city had a big effect.FrancisUrquhart said:
From 1 to 2?MikeL said:Mundell: Con vote has doubled in Glasgow.
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Let me blow your mind slightly.HYUFD said:
75% or so of Labour voters will vote Remain according to the polls, 55% of Tory voters will vote Leave, who has more to lose to UKIP if it is a close Remain?Mortimer said:
Nope - there are depths as yet unplumbed by Labour.HYUFD said:
WWC Leave voters will most likely have voted UKIP in 2015 anyway, not Labour, so they are not now technically Labour votersMortimer said:
All those 23 WWC Remainiacs.....HYUFD said:
Yet it tends to repeat itself, Labour Remain voters are hardly going to switch to UKIP are they!Mortimer said:
Handy hint: the future doesn't have to be like the past....HYUFD said:
There will be Tory to UKIP movement but more in the manner of Lab to LD after the Iraq War than Lab to SNP after indyref rather than en masse. If Remain win a sterling slide is less likely thoughHYUFD said:
I agree totally - Tory to UKIP en masse after the EU referendum and when the global sovereign debt crisis begins properly and sterling slides. Still think the USD (important) low to come the week after next.hunchman said:FattyBolger said:
Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow Remain
Not sure if I agree, but an interesting line of thought which hadn't occured to me before,
I am a Tory leaver.
I would vote Labour before I vote UKIP.
Most of my family are Labour voters. They're mostly WWC and will either vote UKIP or not vote next time.
Labour will lose WWC vote not because of Europe.
Tories will not lose much MC vote to UKIP regardless of the result in June.0 -
2011 was a fairly good year....but there's a way in the middle between 42 and 30%hunchman said:
Carwyn Jones on Sky explaining away poor Labour results tonight that 2011 was a high water mark!
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Thurrock UKIP 17 Lab 14 Tories 14. UKIP largest party0
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0
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Tories hold Rushmoor0
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Labour holds Wirral0
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Bolehall in Tamworth is a Lab hold. So no wipe out from Tamworth0
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This is unbelievable. Coming on for 2am and 2 seats declared.0
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Tories hold Tamworth0
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Thornberry is a hopeless spinner.
She pushes it just too far when compared to McMao.0 -
Stockport NOC (LDs largest party)0
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Tories hold Tandridge0
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Southend NOC (Tories largest party)0
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All SLAB politicians saying Dudgale must carry only are only doing to avoid become the next leader to be smashed away?0
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Declaration — Hamilton...0
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Hamilton declaration0
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Hamilton Larkhall
SNP 13945
Lab 8508
LD 836
Tories 5596
SNP hold, swing 5% from Lab to SNP
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Glascote in Tamworth is a UKIP gain from Lab0
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Isn't that a Scottish Tory surge?
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SNP "only" up 1000 votes on 2011 in Hamilton.
Compared to expectations, it might be a tad disappointing night for them.0 -
Hart NOC (Tories largest party)0
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Its not as though they've got to split the ballot papers up for other elections going on in Scotland today!DavidL said:0 -
Hamilton:
Lab -10%
Con +9%0 -
@alexmassie: Tory vote in Hamilton up by 9 points; that bodes well (I think) for their chances on the list vote. A degree of Labour glumness around.0
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Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse: SNP: 48.3% (+0.2) LAB: 29.5% (-9.9) CON: 19.4% (+9.3) LDEM: 2.9% (+0.5) SNP Hold.0
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9.5% swing from Labour to Tory in Hamilton0
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Labour hold Bolton0
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@AlbertoNardelli: Sedgley
CON: 45.4% (+27.2)
LAB: 43.8% (-16.5)
Extraordinary swing https://t.co/lSln4CoXxa0 -
Thornbury playing with her phone live on telly.
I feel sorry for Labour if she is the best they can rustle up to present their case.
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Labour hold Hastings0
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Labour -14 Tory + 11 in council seats now0
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Labour likely to hold Birmingham0
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Just checking if Sheridan has called...FattyBolger said:Thornbury playing with her phone live on telly.
I feel sorry for Labour if she is the best they can rustle up to present their case.0 -
She looked like she was about to cry as she paused before answering the question about Scotland.FrancisUrquhart said:
Just checking if Sheridan has called...FattyBolger said:Thornbury playing with her phone live on telly.
I feel sorry for Labour if she is the best they can rustle up to present their case.0 -
They have held it now even if they lose all the wards still to declare.HYUFD said:
Labour likely to hold Birmingham
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Walsall NOC0
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Tories hold Swindon0
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Labour hold Oldham0
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Tories hold Runneymede0
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@GawainTowler: Sky predicting that @UKIP will win a Scottish seat - @DavidCoburnUKip Hello Holywood... damn it Hollyrood0
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Rennie "wins" Fife East - BBC0
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He has probably been asking for money again or she finally realised he is gay.williamglenn said:
She looked like she was about to cry as she paused before answering the question about Scotland.FrancisUrquhart said:
Just checking if Sheridan has called...FattyBolger said:Thornbury playing with her phone live on telly.
I feel sorry for Labour if she is the best they can rustle up to present their case.0 -
Wales is so slow....0
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Jess Phillips and Faisal very chummy on Sky0
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Changes in Tamworth will all 10 wards declared, compared to 2012:
Con -5.1%
Lab -13.9%
UKIP +22.2%
LD -2.3%
Green -1.4%
Ind +0.5%0 -
Everywhere is so slow!AndreaParma_82 said:Wales is so slow....
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But what about 2015 comparison :-)AndyJS said:Changes in Tamworth will all 10 wards declared, compared to 2012:
Con -5.1%
Lab -13.9%
UKIP +22.2%
LD -2.3%
Green -1.4%
Ind +0.5%0 -
General Election @UKGE2020
Current state of English Council seats (2.09am)
Lab 380 (-16)
Con 196 (+11)
LDs 53 (-4)
Indy 22 (-6)
UKIP 19 (+15)
Grn 3 (+1)
OTH 3 (-1)0 -
Changes in Tamworth will all 10 wards declared, compared to 2012: Con -5.1% Lab -13.9% UKIP +22.2% LD -2.3% Green -1.4% Ind +0.5%0
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NumbrCrunchrPolitics @NCPoliticsUK
Lib Dems have taken control of Rugby Borough Council from the Tories #libdemfightback0
This discussion has been closed.