Undefined discussion subject.
Comments
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It was a joke...a long standing one on pb.HortenceWithering said:
Having just watched him he didn't say that at all. You really do post some obsessive rubbish about the BBC.FrancisUrquhart said:Curtice still getting in terrible night for Tories...
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Net changes in councillors
Lab +2 Con 0 LD 0 UKIP +3 Grn 00 -
To be fair, he didn't say the Tories were having a spectacular night. That's bad enoughHortenceWithering said:
Having just watched him he didn't say that at all. You really do post some obsessive rubbish about the BBC.FrancisUrquhart said:Curtice still getting in terrible night for Tories...
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UKIP eating into WWC vote could make all our discussions about Labour needing a centrist leader moot anyway. Might simply be no way back for a party that has abandoned its historic core supporters in favour of identity politics....0
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I just refuse to believe he has a chance...Scrapheap_as_was said:Dan Hodges @DPJHodges · 7m7 minutes ago
Labour sources saying pattern emerging of fall in turnout in key Labour areas, but increase in key Tory areas.
zac o'clock0 -
Yep - overall Curtice conclusion (to the extent there was one) was bad night for Labour.
ie Lab 7% down on what Ed Miliband did and he went on to lose a GE.0 -
BBC banner - "Lib Dems retain overall control of Orkney Islands"
Did the LDs just win a directly elected dictator election?0 -
I wonder where & why all this zac ramping is coming from.RobD said:
I just refuse to believe he has a chance...Scrapheap_as_was said:Dan Hodges @DPJHodges · 7m7 minutes ago
Labour sources saying pattern emerging of fall in turnout in key Labour areas, but increase in key Tory areas.
zac o'clock0 -
@JamieRoss7: Edinburgh Southern will go to Labour, according to a source.
Ruth short in Central apparently0 -
No, that is practical reality. The hard left do not have a majority of MPs, so MPs can oust the Labour leader if he fails to perform and failing to win a general election would give them the mandate to do so and they would do just thatMortimer said:
As I said, misunderstanding the hard left takeover of Labour leadership.HYUFD said:
He failed to win the election that is why and as I said if he did not the MPs would have the excuse to oust him they did not pre-electionMortimer said:
Why would he step down? You're fundamentally misunderstanding the hard left takeover of the Labour party.HYUFD said:
Under PR maybe, not under FPTP. If McDonnell fails to lead the largest party or get enough seats to form a government the Blairite MPs will oust him but he will probably step down anywayMortimer said:
SDP Mk II would have more hope against a divided Tory party.HYUFD said:
Where is the SDP Mk II going to win under FPTP, Blairites will not even be able to do a deal with Farron's LDs. They will have to grit their teeth and wait for Chuka in 2020Mortimer said:
Blairites won't stand for that.HYUFD said:
Which is why I think it will be McDonnell, not Corbyn, who leads Labour in 2020Mortimer said:John McDonnell scares me rigid. His ability to peddle hard left (and frankly farcical) leadership lines in such a believable and, dare I say it, empathic way is far, far better than Corbyn.
Would trigger SDP Mk II.
Only reason that Corbyn is still in place is because of his incompetence.
The worry from a Blairite POV is that McDonnell does enough to survive.0 -
Labour on course to take Stockport Council0
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Tory gains in Trafford mooted.0
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I wonder if this is the first payback for Cameron. Perhaps Trump will start calling him lyiin' Dave.SouthamObserver said:Apparently Trump has come out in favour of Brexit.
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Tories win Sedgley in Bury on a 22% swing from Labour.
The ward is 34% Jewish.
http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadTableView.do?a=7&b=13689191&c=sedgley&d=14&e=61&g=6342011&i=1001x1003x1032x1004&m=0&r=1&s=1462493762490&enc=1&dsFamilyId=25790 -
Only for the die hard membership to elect another hard lefter.HYUFD said:
No, that is practical reality. The left do not have a majority of MPs, so MPs can oust the Labour leader if he fails to perform and failing to win a general election would give them the mandate to do so and they would do just thatMortimer said:
As I said, misunderstanding the hard left takeover of Labour leadership.HYUFD said:
He failed to win the election that is why and as I said if he did not the MPs would have the excuse to oust him they did not pre-electionMortimer said:
Why would he step down? You're fundamentally misunderstanding the hard left takeover of the Labour party.HYUFD said:
Under PR maybe, not under FPTP. If McDonnell fails to lead the largest party or get enough seats to form a government the Blairite MPs will oust him but he will probably step down anywayMortimer said:
SDP Mk II would have more hope against a divided Tory party.HYUFD said:
Where is the SDP Mk II going to win under FPTP, Blairites will not even be able to do a deal with Farron's LDs. They will have to grit their teeth and wait for Chuka in 2020Mortimer said:
Blairites won't stand for that.HYUFD said:
Which is why I think it will be McDonnell, not Corbyn, who leads Labour in 2020Mortimer said:John McDonnell scares me rigid. His ability to peddle hard left (and frankly farcical) leadership lines in such a believable and, dare I say it, empathic way is far, far better than Corbyn.
Would trigger SDP Mk II.
Only reason that Corbyn is still in place is because of his incompetence.
The worry from a Blairite POV is that McDonnell does enough to survive.0 -
I love election nights!0
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@DanSandersonHT: Labour source on Labour Fife candidate Thomas Docherty: "He's a f*cking w*nker. Nobody in the party likes him."0
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There's nothing not to love (apart from cowboys and maybe cruise ships!)FattyBolger said:I love election nights!
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@davieclegg: Lib Dems think Willie Rennie may have the beating of the SNP in North East Fife. Would be extraordinary if true.0
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UKIP has a wonderful opportunity over the next few years with the WWC vote providing Corbyn and McDonnell continue to head Labour into an electoral cul-de-sacMortimer said:UKIP eating into WWC vote could make all our discussions about Labour needing a centrist leader moot anyway. Might simply be no way back for a party that has abandoned its historic core supporters in favour of identity politics....
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What's he supposed to have done?Scott_P said:@DanSandersonHT: Labour source on Labour Fife candidate Thomas Docherty: "He's a f*cking w*nker. Nobody in the party likes him."
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They would not get the chance, with Corbyn and McDonnell gone no other hard lefter would get on the ballot paper, instead Chuka would effectively be anointed by MPs before it even got to the membership for approvalMortimer said:
Only for the die hard membership to elect another hard lefter.HYUFD said:
No, that is practical reality. The left do not have a majority of MPs, so MPs can oust the Labour leader if he fails to perform and failing to win a general election would give them the mandate to do so and they would do just thatMortimer said:
As I said, misunderstanding the hard left takeover of Labour leadership.HYUFD said:
He failed to win the election that is why and as I said if he did not the MPs would have the excuse to oust him they did not pre-electionMortimer said:
Why would he step down? You're fundamentally misunderstanding the hard left takeover of the Labour party.HYUFD said:
Under PR maybe, not under FPTP. If McDonnell fails to lead the largest party or get enough seats to form a government the Blairite MPs will oust him but he will probably step down anywayMortimer said:
SDP Mk II would have more hope against a divided Tory party.HYUFD said:
Where is the SDP Mk II going to win under FPTP, Blairites will not even be able to do a deal with Farron's LDs. They will have to grit their teeth and wait for Chuka in 2020Mortimer said:
Blairites won't stand for that.HYUFD said:
Which is why I think it will be McDonnell, not Corbyn, who leads Labour in 2020Mortimer said:John McDonnell scares me rigid. His ability to peddle hard left (and frankly farcical) leadership lines in such a believable and, dare I say it, empathic way is far, far better than Corbyn.
Would trigger SDP Mk II.
Only reason that Corbyn is still in place is because of his incompetence.
The worry from a Blairite POV is that McDonnell does enough to survive.0 -
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Aint they just great!!FattyBolger said:I love election nights!
This time last year I'd walked 16 miles in the neighbouring marginal GOTV, after a 28 mile final day of canvassing. Some long driveways in Dorset.....0 -
Very big turnout in Eastwood. 68.5% That is going to be seriously interesting. Tories in with a chance on current swings.0
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Conservatives hold Castle Point0
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@MrHarryCole: Laura K reading Labour's crib note live on air to McDonnell. Who looks like someone just pissed on his chips. Cracking telly.0
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Can't wait for the results from Barnet and Harrow later on!AndyJS said:Tories win Sedgley in Bury on a 22% swing from Labour.
The ward is 34% Jewish.
http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadTableView.do?a=7&b=13689191&c=sedgley&d=14&e=61&g=6342011&i=1001x1003x1032x1004&m=0&r=1&s=1462493762490&enc=1&dsFamilyId=25790 -
It'd help if you didn't have a 14 mile drivewayMortimer said:
Aint they just great!!FattyBolger said:I love election nights!
This time last year I'd walked 16 miles in the neighbouring marginal GOTV, after a 28 mile final day of canvassing. Some long driveways in Dorset.....
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Wish I had seen that but couldn't bear him anymore. Laura is great.Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Laura K reading Labour's crib note live on air to McDonnell. Who looks like someone just pissed on his chips. Cracking telly.
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Laura k revealing the speaking notes...wonder who leaked them?0
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Shocked I tell youAndyJS said:Tories win Sedgley in Bury on a 22% swing from Labour.
The ward is 34% Jewish.
http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadTableView.do?a=7&b=13689191&c=sedgley&d=14&e=61&g=6342011&i=1001x1003x1032x1004&m=0&r=1&s=1462493762490&enc=1&dsFamilyId=25790 -
My thinking is that WWC are not going to return to a hard left party or a Blairite party either...hunchman said:
UKIP has a wonderful opportunity over the next few years with the WWC vote providing Corbyn and McDonnell continue to head Labour into an electoral cul-de-sacMortimer said:UKIP eating into WWC vote could make all our discussions about Labour needing a centrist leader moot anyway. Might simply be no way back for a party that has abandoned its historic core supporters in favour of identity politics....
Labour: time to put a fork in0 -
Damn - you're the first person who has spotted that....RobD said:
It'd help if you didn't have a 14 mile drivewayMortimer said:
Aint they just great!!FattyBolger said:I love election nights!
This time last year I'd walked 16 miles in the neighbouring marginal GOTV, after a 28 mile final day of canvassing. Some long driveways in Dorset.....0 -
Labour on zero gains / losses now in council seats. Heading into the NEGATIVE0
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McDonnell is frightening. Laura K thought she had knifed him with the leaked Labour briefing doc. He turned it around with apparent self-deprecating charm.0
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Convenient positioning of the post office at the top though, to drop off the leafletsMortimer said:
Damn - you're the first person who has spotted that....RobD said:
It'd help if you didn't have a 14 mile drivewayMortimer said:
Aint they just great!!FattyBolger said:I love election nights!
This time last year I'd walked 16 miles in the neighbouring marginal GOTV, after a 28 mile final day of canvassing. Some long driveways in Dorset..... 0 -
This is sad on many levels:
sarah smith @BBCsarahsmith
Labour sources in Scotland keen to point out if they are beaten into 3rd place it is not Tories overtaking them, it is Labour undertaking0 -
Just to say that, despite the spin from McDonnell and now Emily Maitlis, saying "Labour have increased from 2015" is also a useless comparator, just as comparing to 2012 is useless.0
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https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/728379089099329536DavidL said:Wish I had seen that but couldn't bear him anymore. Laura is great.
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He laughed and said he had written them (in a joking manner)DavidL said:
Wish I had seen that but couldn't bear him anymore. Laura is great.Scott_P said:@MrHarryCole: Laura K reading Labour's crib note live on air to McDonnell. Who looks like someone just pissed on his chips. Cracking telly.
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Labour NEGATIVE now.
Eastwood going to be very interesting. And noises about Ruth D performing well in Ed Central.0 -
Weymouth NOC0
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lolTissue_Price said:This is sad on many levels:
sarah smith @BBCsarahsmith
Labour sources in Scotland keen to point out if they are beaten into 3rd place it is not Tories overtaking them, it is Labour undertaking0 -
Very good performance from him tonight. As you say, absolutely frightening.FattyBolger said:McDonnell is frightening. Laura K thought she had knifed him with the leaked Labour briefing doc. He turned it around with apparent self-deprecating charm.
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Luckily only about 9 people are watching this broadcast - and they're mostly PB Tories.0
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That is one of the maddest bits of spin ever.Tissue_Price said:This is sad on many levels:
sarah smith @BBCsarahsmith
Labour sources in Scotland keen to point out if they are beaten into 3rd place it is not Tories overtaking them, it is Labour undertaking
How can it be good to claim that it is not your opponents doing really well, it is you doing really, really, really badly?!0 -
Never forget the hate, they always have their hate.Tissue_Price said:This is sad on many levels:
sarah smith @BBCsarahsmith
Labour sources in Scotland keen to point out if they are beaten into 3rd place it is not Tories overtaking them, it is Labour undertaking0 -
@HTScotPol: LibDems believe they are ahead in Edinburgh Western. Tories at #edincount also say seat is looking good for LibDems0
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The speed at which these very small constituencies are being counted in Scotland is really derisory. The counters in Sunderland are probably in their beds by now.0
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Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow RemainMortimer said:
My thinking is that WWC are not going to return to a hard left party or a Blairite party either...hunchman said:
UKIP has a wonderful opportunity over the next few years with the WWC vote providing Corbyn and McDonnell continue to head Labour into an electoral cul-de-sacMortimer said:UKIP eating into WWC vote could make all our discussions about Labour needing a centrist leader moot anyway. Might simply be no way back for a party that has abandoned its historic core supporters in favour of identity politics....
Labour: time to put a fork in0 -
Phil McCann @phi1mccann
UKIP make their first gain from Labour in Bolton, in Little Lever & Darcy Lever:0 -
Weymouth/Portland so far Lab 5 held 4 gain 1 from Con lose 1 to Lib Dem
Con 1 held 1 lose 1 to Lab
Lib Dem 4 held 3 gain 1 from Lab0 -
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Murphy vote moving back to the Tories it would seem.AndyJS said:
Labour third in Eastwood I assume. Between Tories and SNP, probably.hunchman said:Labour NEGATIVE now.
Eastwood going to be very interesting. And noises about Ruth D performing well in Ed Central.
Speaking of Mr Murphy, according to Wiki: "After the 2015 election, Murphy became an advisor to the Finnish non-profit Crisis Management Initiative (CMI), advising on "conflict resolution in central Asia"
Will he come back at some point into Labour politics in Scotland?0 -
Disagree totally.HYUFD said:
Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow RemainMortimer said:
My thinking is that WWC are not going to return to a hard left party or a Blairite party either...hunchman said:
UKIP has a wonderful opportunity over the next few years with the WWC vote providing Corbyn and McDonnell continue to head Labour into an electoral cul-de-sacMortimer said:UKIP eating into WWC vote could make all our discussions about Labour needing a centrist leader moot anyway. Might simply be no way back for a party that has abandoned its historic core supporters in favour of identity politics....
Labour: time to put a fork in
For Labour, 2020 in England could be like 2015 in Scotland. Just imagine that....0 -
Are UKIP in a position to win any council tonight?0
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Edinburgh Southern looking good for LABOUR - BBC0
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They seem to think 2012 is the equivalent point to compare against......RobD said:
I don't think the BBC has compared to 2011 once on their show thoughDanny565 said:Just to say that, despite the spin from McDonnell and now Emily Maitlis, saying "Labour have increased from 2015" is also a useless comparator, just as comparing to 2012 is useless.
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Auntie knows bestFloater said:
They seem to think 2012 is the equivalent point to compare against......RobD said:
I don't think the BBC has compared to 2011 once on their show thoughDanny565 said:Just to say that, despite the spin from McDonnell and now Emily Maitlis, saying "Labour have increased from 2015" is also a useless comparator, just as comparing to 2012 is useless.
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They're also comparing to 2015, which is also useless.Floater said:
They seem to think 2012 is the equivalent point to compare against......RobD said:
I don't think the BBC has compared to 2011 once on their show thoughDanny565 said:Just to say that, despite the spin from McDonnell and now Emily Maitlis, saying "Labour have increased from 2015" is also a useless comparator, just as comparing to 2012 is useless.
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@HTScotPol: Labour sources at #edincount still confident party will come second nationally0
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(Rutherglen) another one bites the dust0
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Tavish Scott "confident" of holding Shetland for LibDems - BBC0
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Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow Remain
Not sure if I agree, but an interesting line of thought which hadn't occured to me before,0 -
I remember for the short time I lived in Polworth getting a leaflet through from Sarah Boyack - I see she is standing for Labour again this time - 3rd would be humiliating for her after being the MSP for 12 years.Scott_P said:
Not well enough it seemshunchman said:noises about Ruth D performing well in Ed Central.
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No way, the difference was in indyref Labour voters were split, Tories overwhelmingly for No, so the SNP's main target was Yes Labour voters, in EU ref Tory voters are split, a clear majority of Labour voters are for Remain, so UKIP's main target will be Leave Tory votersMortimer said:
Disagree totally.HYUFD said:
Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow RemainMortimer said:
My thinking is that WWC are not going to return to a hard left party or a Blairite party either...hunchman said:
UKIP has a wonderful opportunity over the next few years with the WWC vote providing Corbyn and McDonnell continue to head Labour into an electoral cul-de-sacMortimer said:UKIP eating into WWC vote could make all our discussions about Labour needing a centrist leader moot anyway. Might simply be no way back for a party that has abandoned its historic core supporters in favour of identity politics....
Labour: time to put a fork in
For Labour, 2020 in England could be like 2015 in Scotland. Just imagine that....0 -
Not when Leave wins!HYUFD said:
No way, the difference was in indyref Labour voters were split, Tories overwhelmingly for No, so the SNP's main target was Yes Labour voters, in EU ref Tory voters are split, a clear majority of Labour voters are for Remain, so UKIP's main target will be Leave Tory votersMortimer said:
Disagree totally.HYUFD said:
Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow RemainMortimer said:
My thinking is that WWC are not going to return to a hard left party or a Blairite party either...hunchman said:
UKIP has a wonderful opportunity over the next few years with the WWC vote providing Corbyn and McDonnell continue to head Labour into an electoral cul-de-sacMortimer said:UKIP eating into WWC vote could make all our discussions about Labour needing a centrist leader moot anyway. Might simply be no way back for a party that has abandoned its historic core supporters in favour of identity politics....
Labour: time to put a fork in
For Labour, 2020 in England could be like 2015 in Scotland. Just imagine that....
More seriously, it is not all about voters switching.
It is about previous voters staying at home.
That is how Blair won a landslide in 1997. Tory voters stayed at home.
Imagine if 25% of Labour voters stayed at home in the North in 2020.0 -
Labour has lost three seats to Tories in Nuneaton, but still hold council0
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FattyBolger said:
Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow Remain
Not sure if I agree, but an interesting line of thought which hadn't occured to me before,
I agree totally - Tory to UKIP en masse after the EU referendum and when the global sovereign debt crisis begins properly and sterling slides. Still think the USD (important) low to come the week after next.0 -
But not 2011Danny565 said:
They're also comparing to 2015, which is also useless.Floater said:
They seem to think 2012 is the equivalent point to compare against......RobD said:
I don't think the BBC has compared to 2011 once on their show thoughDanny565 said:Just to say that, despite the spin from McDonnell and now Emily Maitlis, saying "Labour have increased from 2015" is also a useless comparator, just as comparing to 2012 is useless.
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Labour have lost Holyrood in Bury to the LDs.0
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Current state of English Council seats (1.29am) Labour 227 (-4) Cons 81 (+5) LibDems 27 (-3) Indy 10 (-4) UKIP 8 (+6) Green 1 (0)0
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Stockport LibDem leader loses seat - other LibDem losses on council - R5Live0
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Well, if your objective is to damage the current leadership as much as possible?oxfordsimon said:
That is one of the maddest bits of spin ever.Tissue_Price said:This is sad on many levels:
sarah smith @BBCsarahsmith
Labour sources in Scotland keen to point out if they are beaten into 3rd place it is not Tories overtaking them, it is Labour undertaking
How can it be good to claim that it is not your opponents doing really well, it is you doing really, really, really badly?!0 -
Labour hold Stevenage0
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Labour hold Chorley, Rochdale and Hull0
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O/T - How are your cats going on Plato? Our two remaining Persians getting very old now - the white will be 18 in 7 weeks time, and our black persian will be 17 around the EU referendum too, her sight is causing concern, and she bumps into a few things, and we can't scatter the munchies for her any longer. But apart from that she's fine bless her.Plato_Says said:Current state of English Council seats (1.29am) Labour 227 (-4) Cons 81 (+5) LibDems 27 (-3) Indy 10 (-4) UKIP 8 (+6) Green 1 (0)
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Phil Rodgers @PhilRodgers
I don't think I'm committing an election offence to reveal that one voter drew a portrait of Iron Man on their PCC ballot & voted for it.0 -
@HTScotPol: LibDem sources at #edincount say @willie_rennie has gained North East Fife from SNP0
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Labour spin lines on BBC looking increasingly like 2015. About 2 hours behind the times....0
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@ianssmart: No harm to the media but if these individual contest predictions are correct the Nats might not have 65. Surely that's the story.0
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When are we going to get the 3rd Scottish declaration? Seems a long wait after Orkney and Rutherglen!0
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@HTScotPol: Labour sources at #edincount reckon Iain Gray has held East Lothian0
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I can't wait to see my corbyn-raving luvvy mates on fb explain tonight....0
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I agree totally - Tory to UKIP en masse after the EU referendum and when the global sovereign debt crisis begins properly and sterling slides. Still think the USD (important) low to come the week after next.hunchman said:FattyBolger said:
Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow Remain
Not sure if I agree, but an interesting line of thought which hadn't occured to me before,
There will be Tory to UKIP movement but more in the manner of Lab to LD after the Iraq War than Lab to SNP after indyref rather than en masse. If Remain win a sterling slide is less likely though0 -
Handy hint: the future doesn't have to be like the past....HYUFD said:
There will be Tory to UKIP movement but more in the manner of Lab to LD after the Iraq War than Lab to SNP after indyref rather than en masse. If Remain win a sterling slide is less likely thoughHYUFD said:
I agree totally - Tory to UKIP en masse after the EU referendum and when the global sovereign debt crisis begins properly and sterling slides. Still think the USD (important) low to come the week after next.hunchman said:FattyBolger said:
Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow Remain
Not sure if I agree, but an interesting line of thought which hadn't occured to me before,0 -
Under FPTP that would make little difference considering most of the northern seats have comfortable Labour majoritiesMortimer said:
Not when Leave wins!HYUFD said:
No way, the difference was in indyref Labour voters were split, Tories overwhelmingly for No, so the SNP's main target was Yes Labour voters, in EU ref Tory voters are split, a clear majority of Labour voters are for Remain, so UKIP's main target will be Leave Tory votersMortimer said:
Disagree totally.HYUFD said:
Most of the wwc who would defect to UKIP from Labour have already gone, most last year, the biggest gains UKIP will make from now until 2020 are likely to be from Tories, especially those who voted Leave if it is a narrow RemainMortimer said:
My thinking is that WWC are not going to return to a hard left party or a Blairite party either...hunchman said:
UKIP has a wonderful opportunity over the next few years with the WWC vote providing Corbyn and McDonnell continue to head Labour into an electoral cul-de-sacMortimer said:UKIP eating into WWC vote could make all our discussions about Labour needing a centrist leader moot anyway. Might simply be no way back for a party that has abandoned its historic core supporters in favour of identity politics....
Labour: time to put a fork in
For Labour, 2020 in England could be like 2015 in Scotland. Just imagine that....
More seriously, it is not all about voters switching.
It is about previous voters staying at home.
That is how Blair won a landslide in 1997. Tory voters stayed at home.
Imagine if 25% of Labour voters stayed at home in the North in 2020.0 -
Sky council seats declaration miles behind the Beeb. Hunchman praising the BBC! What's happening!0
