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Are we rushing to premature conclusions about the latest COVID figures? – politicalbetting.com

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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited July 2021
    All time medals per (million) capita

    Top -
    Finland 54
    GB 12.54
    USA 7.62
    India... 0.03 :D
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    isam said:

    Sorry war on woke warriors, was checking the the Levis site for something and note they now have a 'Genderless' category. When capitalism takes a side, the war tends to be over.

    There’ll be unisex hairdressers next!
    I do wonder what happens with blazers and suit jackets. Which side will they button on?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    I liked the time they gamed it with the entire RN and RAF going to the pub for the actual invasion. The Germans sustained 30% losses on the Channel crossing, all by themselves.........
    I've long been tempted to write a novel about an invasion (after I walked around a very atmospheric gun battery on the south coast and imagined a fleet of invasion ships coming across). Having read up on it, IMV to make it realistic a number of things would have to change.

    For one thing, the Germans would have had to wanted to invade England for several years; enough time to build a proper invasion fleet of landing craft, torpedo boats and other craft to harry the Royal Navy. Winning the Battle of Britain would also have been very important, and spies/saboteurs within the UK would have helped. There were others.

    I've got these changes written down somewhere, as the starting point for the writing. without them I couldn't really have the major battles I wanted on the mainland.
    There are alternative invasion routes you should consider for your novel. One is from Norway to Scotland (which was also considered in the other direction for D-Day). More realistic would be to use paratroopers for the initial invasion and have them capture and secure a British port, which could then be used to land German reinforcements of troops and armour. This was a genuine fear, and the Admiralty had plans to destroy ports by scuttling ships, dumping coal, and blowing up facilities, had the Nazis been about to invade.
    Yes, they might make be interesting outlines. In the plot outline I have, the Kriegsmarine defeat the Royal Navy in the Channel, and it is a battle for the Home Fleet to fight its way down from Scarpa Flow. And yes, I have German paratroopers playing a major part.

    I have written some; from memory, the first scene is of a nineteen year old boy watching the German invasion fleet come in as planes bomb the battery he has volunteered in. One strand of the book follows him during the retreat and then the fightback. As I'm a modern sort of person, another strand is from the viewpoint of a German sailor who gets stranded on the mainland. And that's the part I have a problem with, as I found it very hard to write from that viewpoint ...

    I am not a writer (tm). :)
    It's been pretty definitively shown that if the RN wasn't wiped out, sustaining an invasion of GB would have been impossible.
    One way the RN could have been wiped out would have been for it to engage the German navy close enough to Germany for the Luftwaffe to divebomb the ships, in an area where manoeuvring was difficult.
    Which is why the RN got agitated when Churchill wanted them to sail the entire Home Fleet into the Baltic...
    The Channel would have been extremely close to the Luftwaffe on French airfields and similarly difficult for manoeuvering..
    At that point in time, the Luftwaffe had proved themselves not able to hit slow moving merchant ships effectively. Manoeuvring destroyers were pretty much immune.

    This led to RN over confidence in the Med, later in the war, when the Germans had figured out the issues and train their aircrews to hit ships.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    isam said:

    Sorry war on woke warriors, was checking the the Levis site for something and note they now have a 'Genderless' category. When capitalism takes a side, the war tends to be over.

    There’ll be unisex hairdressers next!
    That would be a cut above what we have now.
  • MaffewMaffew Posts: 235
    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    What is the latest on the three (dodgy?) Indian-made AstraZeneca vaccine batches?

    My first jab was from one of these batches but my second wasn't.

    Should I be concerned?

    Only if travelling internationally.
    Well, that's a huge problem then - I hope they sort this out.
    AIUI it is still country by country so some places are fine, others not, you would need to check before booking. (If only it was an EU competence! Ducks and runs for cover.....)
    Planning a trip right now is rather like a military operation. My September trip is looking more of a go-er now we seem to have turned the tide of the latest wave, but I've had to ditch the Austrian and Hungarian bits of it as Austria still has a complete ban on overnight stays by British tourists, extended the Germany bit to avoid being caught up in the Italian quarantine regulations for UK travellers, and arranged a Plan B with ferry return from Holland in case the UK doesn't drop the French amber-plus in time; unlike last year you can't even transit France without being caught by the UK rules. Plus tests to arrange both here and there, on top of the post-Brexit complications for the dog. And a Green Card. And a stack of online registrations and sworn declarations to make for most countries prior to entry. Plus the normal Swiss and Austrian motorway tolls to pre-pay. At least I already have a German low emission permit!
    I've got two separate weeks in Spain booked for the end of August/beginning of September and end of September. I'm increasingly sceptical that the first at least will go ahead with leaks about Spain being made 'amber-plus' and consideration of compulsory outdoor mask wearing being reintroduced there (if outdoor masks are compulsory it's simply not worth it for me to go). Everything except flights is fully refundable until a couple of days before I leave (and I can get vouchers for the flights), so I'm not feeling over-exposed but a holiday really would be lovely.

    My original plan was a much more environmentally friendly two week trip with a train journey to Munich, cycle across the Dolomites to Verona and then train back to Munich/the UK, but now every extra country you travel through becomes more risk of quarantines/bans. Sigh.
  • MattW said:

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    On the channel, two historical things I picked up on recently.

    Mine barriers laid across the Channel to block uboats.

    That all of the German undersea telegraph cables in the channel were cut within hours of the start of WW1. Exactly the same basic strategy as WW2. Make them use radio.
    https://warandsecurity.com/2014/08/05/britain-cuts-german-cable-communications-5-august-1914/
    One podcast I listened to put the allies winning World War I down to the cutting of the cables in the first days of the war. It meant the Germans had to use radio, and that allowed the Zimmerman telegram to be intercepted, and helped lead the US to war.

    In the Cold War the Americans and UK tried intercepting communications in Berlin using a tunnel. Interestingly the Russians knew about the tunnel immediately due to George Bake's treachery, but they did not stop using the communication cables because they wanted to protect Blake ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gold
    There's a similar story about the Enigma machine (or similar) and the Doodlebugs. They were 'misdirected' away from Central London.
    I don't think that involved the Enigma, but a much more open form of misdirection. From memory, when a bomb exploded, the radio and newspapers would report it as being further north and west. This made the Germans think they were overshooting and reduce the range, meaning they were more likely to land in the lesser-populated southeast than London.

    Someone can probably correct me. ;)
    It was a combination - the primary channel were the German agents in Britain. Who were all working for MI6.....

    What was interesting was that they didn't misreport hits - they actually reported a skewed sample of the actual hits.
    The misdirecting of bombing was technological, broadcasting false signals that miatched the German guidance system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Beams
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Thread on those skewed Israeli stats.

    You’ve probably seen reports from Israel on low vaccine effectiveness in this wave. Is it because of Delta? Waning immunity? We think the reason is mostly that we got the denominator wrong.
    https://twitter.com/dvir_a/status/1420059124700700677
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    isam said:

    Sorry war on woke warriors, was checking the the Levis site for something and note they now have a 'Genderless' category. When capitalism takes a side, the war tends to be over.

    There’ll be unisex hairdressers next!
    The explosion of ruddy heads if they started rebranding themselves as 'genderless' hairdressers would be remarkable. Terminology is a huge part of culture war whining, as any ful should kno.
  • XtrainXtrain Posts: 341
    Where are the empty shelves. Did a full shop yesterday. No missing items.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    Fiji win the Rugby sevens. 29-12 vs New Zealand.
  • My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    I liked the time they gamed it with the entire RN and RAF going to the pub for the actual invasion. The Germans sustained 30% losses on the Channel crossing, all by themselves.........
    I've long been tempted to write a novel about an invasion (after I walked around a very atmospheric gun battery on the south coast and imagined a fleet of invasion ships coming across). Having read up on it, IMV to make it realistic a number of things would have to change.

    For one thing, the Germans would have had to wanted to invade England for several years; enough time to build a proper invasion fleet of landing craft, torpedo boats and other craft to harry the Royal Navy. Winning the Battle of Britain would also have been very important, and spies/saboteurs within the UK would have helped. There were others.

    I've got these changes written down somewhere, as the starting point for the writing. without them I couldn't really have the major battles I wanted on the mainland.
    There are alternative invasion routes you should consider for your novel. One is from Norway to Scotland (which was also considered in the other direction for D-Day). More realistic would be to use paratroopers for the initial invasion and have them capture and secure a British port, which could then be used to land German reinforcements of troops and armour. This was a genuine fear, and the Admiralty had plans to destroy ports by scuttling ships, dumping coal, and blowing up facilities, had the Nazis been about to invade.
    Yes, they might make be interesting outlines. In the plot outline I have, the Kriegsmarine defeat the Royal Navy in the Channel, and it is a battle for the Home Fleet to fight its way down from Scarpa Flow. And yes, I have German paratroopers playing a major part.

    I have written some; from memory, the first scene is of a nineteen year old boy watching the German invasion fleet come in as planes bomb the battery he has volunteered in. One strand of the book follows him during the retreat and then the fightback. As I'm a modern sort of person, another strand is from the viewpoint of a German sailor who gets stranded on the mainland. And that's the part I have a problem with, as I found it very hard to write from that viewpoint ...

    I am not a writer (tm). :)
    It's been pretty definitively shown that if the RN wasn't wiped out, sustaining an invasion of GB would have been impossible.
    One way the RN could have been wiped out would have been for it to engage the German navy close enough to Germany for the Luftwaffe to divebomb the ships, in an area where manoeuvring was difficult.
    Which is why the RN got agitated when Churchill wanted them to sail the entire Home Fleet into the Baltic...
    The Channel would have been extremely close to the Luftwaffe on French airfields and similarly difficult for manoeuvering..
    The Channel is much better for manouevring large ships - and it would have also been in range of the RAF, unlike the Baltic, making the Luftwaffe's job much more difficult if not impossible.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    MattW said:

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    On the channel, two historical things I picked up on recently.

    Mine barriers laid across the Channel to block uboats.

    That all of the German undersea telegraph cables in the channel were cut within hours of the start of WW1. Exactly the same basic strategy as WW2. Make them use radio.
    https://warandsecurity.com/2014/08/05/britain-cuts-german-cable-communications-5-august-1914/
    One podcast I listened to put the allies winning World War I down to the cutting of the cables in the first days of the war. It meant the Germans had to use radio, and that allowed the Zimmerman telegram to be intercepted, and helped lead the US to war.

    In the Cold War the Americans and UK tried intercepting communications in Berlin using a tunnel. Interestingly the Russians knew about the tunnel immediately due to George Bake's treachery, but they did not stop using the communication cables because they wanted to protect Blake ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gold
    There's a similar story about the Enigma machine (or similar) and the Doodlebugs. They were 'misdirected' away from Central London.
    I don't think that involved the Enigma, but a much more open form of misdirection. From memory, when a bomb exploded, the radio and newspapers would report it as being further north and west. This made the Germans think they were overshooting and reduce the range, meaning they were more likely to land in the lesser-populated southeast than London.

    Someone can probably correct me. ;)
    It was a combination - the primary channel were the German agents in Britain. Who were all working for MI6.....

    What was interesting was that they didn't misreport hits - they actually reported a skewed sample of the actual hits.
    I've been watching the documentary on iPlayer about the turnaround in UK Olympic sport between Atlanta and London 2012. An amusing snippet is that when the IOC inspection team visited London early in the bidding process, it had been pre-arranged with TfL that traffic lights would switch to green as the IOC coach approached each junction.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    MattW said:

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    On the channel, two historical things I picked up on recently.

    Mine barriers laid across the Channel to block uboats.

    That all of the German undersea telegraph cables in the channel were cut within hours of the start of WW1. Exactly the same basic strategy as WW2. Make them use radio.
    https://warandsecurity.com/2014/08/05/britain-cuts-german-cable-communications-5-august-1914/
    One podcast I listened to put the allies winning World War I down to the cutting of the cables in the first days of the war. It meant the Germans had to use radio, and that allowed the Zimmerman telegram to be intercepted, and helped lead the US to war.

    In the Cold War the Americans and UK tried intercepting communications in Berlin using a tunnel. Interestingly the Russians knew about the tunnel immediately due to George Bake's treachery, but they did not stop using the communication cables because they wanted to protect Blake ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gold
    There's a similar story about the Enigma machine (or similar) and the Doodlebugs. They were 'misdirected' away from Central London.
    I don't think that involved the Enigma, but a much more open form of misdirection. From memory, when a bomb exploded, the radio and newspapers would report it as being further north and west. This made the Germans think they were overshooting and reduce the range, meaning they were more likely to land in the lesser-populated southeast than London.

    Someone can probably correct me. ;)
    It was a combination - the primary channel were the German agents in Britain. Who were all working for MI6.....

    What was interesting was that they didn't misreport hits - they actually reported a skewed sample of the actual hits.
    The misdirecting of bombing was technological, broadcasting false signals that miatched the German guidance system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Beams
    That's to do with the aircraft attacks.

    V2 was largely inertial, though there were some experiments with radio guidance. And some carried radio beacons so they could be tracked.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/28/rnli-hits-out-migrant-taxi-service-accusations

    Interesting that the RNLI are not commenting directly on the borders and nationality bill, reason given it would be political to do so - but that leaves the question of the legal jeopardy of the RNLI and its staff and volunteers unresolved, so afr as I am aware.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,693

    Nigelb said:

    Another Scottish success story.
    Actually British, with the anchors from Wales and the turbines from England. And investment from both the the EU and London..
    As this is a prototype, it's also a little early to call it a success. But I hope it will be.
    A previous prototype (different company) was installed off Ramsey Island in Pembrokeshire. I understand that didn't go too well...
    Tidal and wave power has been looked into for many decades now. They've never quite worked out (awaits those who start shouting 'Thatcher!'). They have so much potential, but it seems to be very hard to make them work reliably and economically. Yet hydroelectric dams are generally reliable (*). The difference is probably that maintenance on hydroelectric turbines are so much easier, and the environment much more controlled and passive?

    (*): Except in Russia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfW5MqT7CSA
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    I liked the time they gamed it with the entire RN and RAF going to the pub for the actual invasion. The Germans sustained 30% losses on the Channel crossing, all by themselves.........
    I've long been tempted to write a novel about an invasion (after I walked around a very atmospheric gun battery on the south coast and imagined a fleet of invasion ships coming across). Having read up on it, IMV to make it realistic a number of things would have to change.

    For one thing, the Germans would have had to wanted to invade England for several years; enough time to build a proper invasion fleet of landing craft, torpedo boats and other craft to harry the Royal Navy. Winning the Battle of Britain would also have been very important, and spies/saboteurs within the UK would have helped. There were others.

    I've got these changes written down somewhere, as the starting point for the writing. without them I couldn't really have the major battles I wanted on the mainland.
    There are alternative invasion routes you should consider for your novel. One is from Norway to Scotland (which was also considered in the other direction for D-Day). More realistic would be to use paratroopers for the initial invasion and have them capture and secure a British port, which could then be used to land German reinforcements of troops and armour. This was a genuine fear, and the Admiralty had plans to destroy ports by scuttling ships, dumping coal, and blowing up facilities, had the Nazis been about to invade.
    Yes, they might make be interesting outlines. In the plot outline I have, the Kriegsmarine defeat the Royal Navy in the Channel, and it is a battle for the Home Fleet to fight its way down from Scarpa Flow. And yes, I have German paratroopers playing a major part.

    I have written some; from memory, the first scene is of a nineteen year old boy watching the German invasion fleet come in as planes bomb the battery he has volunteered in. One strand of the book follows him during the retreat and then the fightback. As I'm a modern sort of person, another strand is from the viewpoint of a German sailor who gets stranded on the mainland. And that's the part I have a problem with, as I found it very hard to write from that viewpoint ...

    I am not a writer (tm). :)
    It's been pretty definitively shown that if the RN wasn't wiped out, sustaining an invasion of GB would have been impossible.
    One way the RN could have been wiped out would have been for it to engage the German navy close enough to Germany for the Luftwaffe to divebomb the ships, in an area where manoeuvring was difficult.
    Which is why the RN got agitated when Churchill wanted them to sail the entire Home Fleet into the Baltic...
    The Channel would have been extremely close to the Luftwaffe on French airfields and similarly difficult for manoeuvering..
    At that point in time, the Luftwaffe had proved themselves not able to hit slow moving merchant ships effectively. Manoeuvring destroyers were pretty much immune.

    This led to RN over confidence in the Med, later in the war, when the Germans had figured out the issues and train their aircrews to hit ships.
    Stukas (short ranged, however) were much more dangerous than level bombers. But only if the RAF and FAA weren't around.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    edited July 2021

    MattW said:

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    On the channel, two historical things I picked up on recently.

    Mine barriers laid across the Channel to block uboats.

    That all of the German undersea telegraph cables in the channel were cut within hours of the start of WW1. Exactly the same basic strategy as WW2. Make them use radio.
    https://warandsecurity.com/2014/08/05/britain-cuts-german-cable-communications-5-august-1914/
    One podcast I listened to put the allies winning World War I down to the cutting of the cables in the first days of the war. It meant the Germans had to use radio, and that allowed the Zimmerman telegram to be intercepted, and helped lead the US to war.

    In the Cold War the Americans and UK tried intercepting communications in Berlin using a tunnel. Interestingly the Russians knew about the tunnel immediately due to George Bake's treachery, but they did not stop using the communication cables because they wanted to protect Blake ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gold
    There's a similar story about the Enigma machine (or similar) and the Doodlebugs. They were 'misdirected' away from Central London.
    I don't think that involved the Enigma, but a much more open form of misdirection. From memory, when a bomb exploded, the radio and newspapers would report it as being further north and west. This made the Germans think they were overshooting and reduce the range, meaning they were more likely to land in the lesser-populated southeast than London.

    Someone can probably correct me. ;)
    It was a combination - the primary channel were the German agents in Britain. Who were all working for MI6.....

    What was interesting was that they didn't misreport hits - they actually reported a skewed sample of the actual hits.
    The misdirecting of bombing was technological, broadcasting false signals that miatched the German guidance system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Beams
    That's to do with the aircraft attacks.

    V2 was largely inertial, though there were some experiments with radio guidance. And some carried radio beacons so they could be tracked.
    I remember standing in the school playground and seeing a Doodlebug, a V1, if not overhead not far away. Then it's light went out and the teachers rushed us all into the shelters.
    By then we knew that if the light went out, it's engine had cut out.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Nigelb said:

    Another Scottish success story.
    Actually British, with the anchors from Wales and the turbines from England. And investment from both the the EU and London..
    As this is a prototype, it's also a little early to call it a success. But I hope it will be.
    A previous prototype (different company) was installed off Ramsey Island in Pembrokeshire. I understand that didn't go too well...
    Tidal and wave power has been looked into for many decades now. They've never quite worked out (awaits those who start shouting 'Thatcher!'). They have so much potential, but it seems to be very hard to make them work reliably and economically. Yet hydroelectric dams are generally reliable (*). The difference is probably that maintenance on hydroelectric turbines are so much easier, and the environment much more controlled and passive?

    (*): Except in Russia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfW5MqT7CSA
    I'm slightly surprised there aren't more dams built across narrow channels - turbine action each way.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    For those of us concerned about potential restrictions on betting being imposed by the government good to see a story in private eye highlighting the number of MPs who were entertained by bookmakers at Wembley and Wimbledon recently. For once I am in favour of the corruption (sorry, lobbying).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,693
    Pulpstar said:

    All time medals per (million) capita

    Top -
    Finland 54
    GB 12.54
    USA 7.62
    India... 0.03 :D

    India's general underperformance in many sports is fascinating. As a country they have so much potential, but cannot seem quite to grasp it fully.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited July 2021
    Maffew said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    What is the latest on the three (dodgy?) Indian-made AstraZeneca vaccine batches?

    My first jab was from one of these batches but my second wasn't.

    Should I be concerned?

    Only if travelling internationally.
    Well, that's a huge problem then - I hope they sort this out.
    AIUI it is still country by country so some places are fine, others not, you would need to check before booking. (If only it was an EU competence! Ducks and runs for cover.....)
    Planning a trip right now is rather like a military operation. My September trip is looking more of a go-er now we seem to have turned the tide of the latest wave, but I've had to ditch the Austrian and Hungarian bits of it as Austria still has a complete ban on overnight stays by British tourists, extended the Germany bit to avoid being caught up in the Italian quarantine regulations for UK travellers, and arranged a Plan B with ferry return from Holland in case the UK doesn't drop the French amber-plus in time; unlike last year you can't even transit France without being caught by the UK rules. Plus tests to arrange both here and there, on top of the post-Brexit complications for the dog. And a Green Card. And a stack of online registrations and sworn declarations to make for most countries prior to entry. Plus the normal Swiss and Austrian motorway tolls to pre-pay. At least I already have a German low emission permit!
    I've got two separate weeks in Spain booked for the end of August/beginning of September and end of September. I'm increasingly sceptical that the first at least will go ahead with leaks about Spain being made 'amber-plus' and consideration of compulsory outdoor mask wearing being reintroduced there (if outdoor masks are compulsory it's simply not worth it for me to go). Everything except flights is fully refundable until a couple of days before I leave (and I can get vouchers for the flights), so I'm not feeling over-exposed but a holiday really would be lovely.

    My original plan was a much more environmentally friendly two week trip with a train journey to Munich, cycle across the Dolomites to Verona and then train back to Munich/the UK, but now every extra country you travel through becomes more risk of quarantines/bans. Sigh.
    Yes, it's a hassle, but I think it'll be worth it. The trip I managed last September was great, especially as tourists back then were few in numbers so it was a once-in-a-lifetime chance to visit places free of the crowds. I doubt this year will be that good!

    My original plan to circumnavigate the Alps to the east has turned instead into an extended tour around Bavaria followed by returns to my regular spots in the Italian Alps, but it looks better than 50:50 that my trip will go ahead

    The outdoor mask rules will surely only apply in outdoor public spaces?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    For those of us concerned about potential restrictions on betting being imposed by the government good to see a story in private eye highlighting the number of MPs who were entertained by bookmakers at Wembley and Wimbledon recently. For once I am in favour of the corruption (sorry, lobbying).

    Didn't see Tissue Price's name.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    IanB2 said:

    Maffew said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    What is the latest on the three (dodgy?) Indian-made AstraZeneca vaccine batches?

    My first jab was from one of these batches but my second wasn't.

    Should I be concerned?

    Only if travelling internationally.
    Well, that's a huge problem then - I hope they sort this out.
    AIUI it is still country by country so some places are fine, others not, you would need to check before booking. (If only it was an EU competence! Ducks and runs for cover.....)
    Planning a trip right now is rather like a military operation. My September trip is looking more of a go-er now we seem to have turned the tide of the latest wave, but I've had to ditch the Austrian and Hungarian bits of it as Austria still has a complete ban on overnight stays by British tourists, extended the Germany bit to avoid being caught up in the Italian quarantine regulations for UK travellers, and arranged a Plan B with ferry return from Holland in case the UK doesn't drop the French amber-plus in time; unlike last year you can't even transit France without being caught by the UK rules. Plus tests to arrange both here and there, on top of the post-Brexit complications for the dog. And a Green Card. And a stack of online registrations and sworn declarations to make for most countries prior to entry. Plus the normal Swiss and Austrian motorway tolls to pre-pay. At least I already have a German low emission permit!
    I've got two separate weeks in Spain booked for the end of August/beginning of September and end of September. I'm increasingly sceptical that the first at least will go ahead with leaks about Spain being made 'amber-plus' and consideration of compulsory outdoor mask wearing being reintroduced there (if outdoor masks are compulsory it's simply not worth it for me to go). Everything except flights is fully refundable until a couple of days before I leave (and I can get vouchers for the flights), so I'm not feeling over-exposed but a holiday really would be lovely.

    My original plan was a much more environmentally friendly two week trip with a train journey to Munich, cycle across the Dolomites to Verona and then train back to Munich/the UK, but now every extra country you travel through becomes more risk of quarantines/bans. Sigh.
    Yes, it's a hassle, but I think it'll be worth it. The trip I managed last September was great, especially as tourists back then were few in numbers so it was a once-in-a-lifetime chance to visit places free of the crowds. I doubt this year will be that good!

    My original plan to circumnavigate the Alps to the east has turned instead into an extended tour around Bavaria followed by returns to my regular spots in the Italian Alps, but it looks better than 50:50 that my trip will go ahead

    The outdoor mask rules will surely only apply in outdoor public spaces?
    We went to Split last year and it was mint. Dubrovnik is the angle at the moment. On green list (watchlist, so wait for next review). Dubrovnik with no crowds (plus no cruise ships docking) would be superb.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    Carnyx said:

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    I liked the time they gamed it with the entire RN and RAF going to the pub for the actual invasion. The Germans sustained 30% losses on the Channel crossing, all by themselves.........
    I've long been tempted to write a novel about an invasion (after I walked around a very atmospheric gun battery on the south coast and imagined a fleet of invasion ships coming across). Having read up on it, IMV to make it realistic a number of things would have to change.

    For one thing, the Germans would have had to wanted to invade England for several years; enough time to build a proper invasion fleet of landing craft, torpedo boats and other craft to harry the Royal Navy. Winning the Battle of Britain would also have been very important, and spies/saboteurs within the UK would have helped. There were others.

    I've got these changes written down somewhere, as the starting point for the writing. without them I couldn't really have the major battles I wanted on the mainland.
    There are alternative invasion routes you should consider for your novel. One is from Norway to Scotland (which was also considered in the other direction for D-Day). More realistic would be to use paratroopers for the initial invasion and have them capture and secure a British port, which could then be used to land German reinforcements of troops and armour. This was a genuine fear, and the Admiralty had plans to destroy ports by scuttling ships, dumping coal, and blowing up facilities, had the Nazis been about to invade.
    Yes, they might make be interesting outlines. In the plot outline I have, the Kriegsmarine defeat the Royal Navy in the Channel, and it is a battle for the Home Fleet to fight its way down from Scarpa Flow. And yes, I have German paratroopers playing a major part.

    I have written some; from memory, the first scene is of a nineteen year old boy watching the German invasion fleet come in as planes bomb the battery he has volunteered in. One strand of the book follows him during the retreat and then the fightback. As I'm a modern sort of person, another strand is from the viewpoint of a German sailor who gets stranded on the mainland. And that's the part I have a problem with, as I found it very hard to write from that viewpoint ...

    I am not a writer (tm). :)
    It's been pretty definitively shown that if the RN wasn't wiped out, sustaining an invasion of GB would have been impossible.
    One way the RN could have been wiped out would have been for it to engage the German navy close enough to Germany for the Luftwaffe to divebomb the ships, in an area where manoeuvring was difficult.
    Which is why the RN got agitated when Churchill wanted them to sail the entire Home Fleet into the Baltic...
    The Channel would have been extremely close to the Luftwaffe on French airfields and similarly difficult for manoeuvering..
    At that point in time, the Luftwaffe had proved themselves not able to hit slow moving merchant ships effectively. Manoeuvring destroyers were pretty much immune.

    This led to RN over confidence in the Med, later in the war, when the Germans had figured out the issues and train their aircrews to hit ships.
    Stukas (short ranged, however) were much more dangerous than level bombers. But only if the RAF and FAA weren't around.
    Until they trained the Stuka pilots with effective tactics, not so much. They spent much of 1940 missing coastal steamers in the Channel, when they weren't attacking RAF airfields....

    Interestingly the RN had trained their dive bombers (Skuas) in the art of hitting ships at sea. Which they then did....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    WTAF
    Iraq war loot, presumably ?

    Rare Cuneiform Tablet Bearing Portion of Epic of Gilgamesh Forfeited to United States
    https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/rare-cuneiform-tablet-bearing-portion-epic-gilgamesh-forfeited-united-states
    The U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of New York ordered the forfeiture of a rare cuneiform tablet bearing a portion of the epic of Gilgamesh, a Sumerian poem considered one of the world’s oldest works of literature.

    Known as the Gilgamesh Dream Tablet, it originated in the area of modern-day Iraq and entered the United States contrary to federal law. An international auction house (the Auction House) later sold the tablet to Hobby Lobby Stores Inc. (Hobby Lobby), a prominent arts-and-crafts retailer based in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, for display at the Museum of the Bible (the Museum). Law enforcement agents seized the tablet from the Museum in September 2019.

    “Forfeiture of the Gilgamesh Dream Tablet demonstrates the Department’s continued commitment to eliminating smuggled cultural property from the U.S. art market,” said Assistant Attorney General Kenneth A. Polite Jr. of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division. “Thwarting trade in smuggled goods by seizing and forfeiting an ancient artifact shows the department’s dedication to using all available tools, including forfeiture, to ensure justice.”

    “This forfeiture represents an important milestone on the path to returning this rare and ancient masterpiece of world literature to its country of origin,” said Acting U.S. Attorney Jacquelyn M. Kasulis for the Eastern District of New York. “This office is committed to combating the black-market sale of cultural property and the smuggling of looted artifacts.”

    “The trafficking of cultural property and art is a lucrative criminal enterprise that transnational criminal organizations exploit to make a profit, regardless of its destructive consequence to cultures around the globe,” said Special Agent in Charge Peter C. Fitzhugh of Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), New York. “HSI continues to partner in art and antiquities investigations to ensure looted pieces are no longer trafficked through commerce for an illicit profit, because the cultural value of this tablet that travelled the world under false provenance exceeds any monetary value.”

    As alleged in the government’s amended complaint, in 2003, a U.S. antiquities dealer (the Antiquities Dealer) purchased the Gilgamesh Dream Tablet, encrusted with dirt and unreadable, from the family member of a London coin dealer. The Antiquities Dealer and a U.S. cuneiform expert shipped the tablet into the United States by international post without declaring the contents as required. After the tablet was imported and cleaned, experts in cuneiform recognized it as bearing a portion of the Gilgamesh epic. The tablet measures approximately 6 inches by 5 inches and is written in the Akkadian language....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,600

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    4 of my son's friends went clubbing in London last week as a post school treat. 3 of them are now confirmed as having caught Covid, one quite badly and the fourth is self isolating. Its a pretty small sample but it does suggest that the opening of nightclubs is going to be a challenge to the figures. All of them had had 1 vaccine but in some cases too recently for it to give much protection.

    The original hope was that the vast majority of those who were fully vaxxed would not catch Covid at all. That does not seem to be happening. They do catch it but the symptoms are much less severe and death is almost unheard of. Whilst this is good news it does mean that we are not achieving the level of herd immunity from vaccines that we once hoped. It also means we have a lot of mainly minor cases to come.

    We are probably 2-3 days away from hospital admissions turning negative on a week to week basis too. The question is whether there will be sufficient potential victims left for a fourth wave in the autumn. I think, given the above, there will be, unfortunately.

    Yes, I think that nightclubs are the main potential spreading events. It will be interesting to see if much comes out of Lattitude and other music festivals. Indoor music venues too come the autumn.

    I agree though about vaccinated folk. While obviously it gives major protection against hospitalisation, the effect on spreading seems much more modest.
    Son and girlfriend are going to London on Monday. They won't be going clubbing but they are worried about the tube. Hopefully it continues to be quieter. They are seriously considering using Uber instead given the risks. They are a sensible couple with their heads screwed on but it is going to be a worry.
    Unless they need to travel at rush hour for some reason, particularly the morning rush hour, the tubes are not crowded and therefore feel safe. If still worried, then changing carriages every couple of stops reduces your chance of prolonged exposure to anyone infected. And as Foxy says London is a good walking city, so they should check how long the walks would take instead.
    I'm not so sure with Delta that you need the x minute exposure that was true of other variants.

    A decent mask and staying in the same carriage is probably a better risk (and less hassle).
    Oh definitely wear a mask. Surprisingly few people go for FFP2 or N95 but they are less than £1 each from amazon, hardly see anyone in Foxys recommended FFP3 but would give further protection still.
    The usual cloth masks are fine in normal social environments such as supermarkets, but I’d want an N95 for crowded public transport, and an FFP3 for the Tube and plane travel.
  • MattW said:

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    On the channel, two historical things I picked up on recently.

    Mine barriers laid across the Channel to block uboats.

    That all of the German undersea telegraph cables in the channel were cut within hours of the start of WW1. Exactly the same basic strategy as WW2. Make them use radio.
    https://warandsecurity.com/2014/08/05/britain-cuts-german-cable-communications-5-august-1914/
    One podcast I listened to put the allies winning World War I down to the cutting of the cables in the first days of the war. It meant the Germans had to use radio, and that allowed the Zimmerman telegram to be intercepted, and helped lead the US to war.

    In the Cold War the Americans and UK tried intercepting communications in Berlin using a tunnel. Interestingly the Russians knew about the tunnel immediately due to George Bake's treachery, but they did not stop using the communication cables because they wanted to protect Blake ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gold
    There's a similar story about the Enigma machine (or similar) and the Doodlebugs. They were 'misdirected' away from Central London.
    I don't think that involved the Enigma, but a much more open form of misdirection. From memory, when a bomb exploded, the radio and newspapers would report it as being further north and west. This made the Germans think they were overshooting and reduce the range, meaning they were more likely to land in the lesser-populated southeast than London.

    Someone can probably correct me. ;)
    It was a combination - the primary channel were the German agents in Britain. Who were all working for MI6.....

    What was interesting was that they didn't misreport hits - they actually reported a skewed sample of the actual hits.
    The misdirecting of bombing was technological, broadcasting false signals that miatched the German guidance system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Beams
    That's to do with the aircraft attacks.

    V2 was largely inertial, though there were some experiments with radio guidance. And some carried radio beacons so they could be tracked.
    Ah yes, sorry. The perils of skim reading!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Pulpstar said:

    All time medals per (million) capita

    Top -
    Finland 54
    GB 12.54
    USA 7.62
    India... 0.03 :D

    India's general underperformance in many sports is fascinating. As a country they have so much potential, but cannot seem quite to grasp it fully.
    Looking at the per capital tables there appears to be quite a significant correlation that religious countries underperform and the more secular countries overperform in Olympics. I don't know if that is fully explained by secular countries being on average richer.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833
    DougSeal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hmm, worrying signs coming from the rowing team. Just watched the replay of the mens 4, what a shambles. 6 gold medals in a row to bumping into the Italians.

    In truth I have reached my worry capacity. Not sure I’ve room for the boaties. Like the USA’s basketball team, all good things etc…
    Ha, yes - what a joy it is for the biggest worry of the day to be steering in a boat race.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited July 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    All time medals per (million) capita

    Top -
    Finland 54
    GB 12.54
    USA 7.62
    India... 0.03 :D

    India's general underperformance in many sports is fascinating. As a country they have so much potential, but cannot seem quite to grasp it fully.
    Looking at the per capital tables there appears to be quite a significant correlation that religious countries underperform and the more secular countries overperform in Olympics. I don't know if that is fully explained by secular countries being on average richer.
    People generally see the US as quite a religious country, even though it's credible to argue that they're mostly only pretending.

    You've probably nailed the main driver. Although having greater female equality will increase medal prospects, as well.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    edited July 2021
    I wrote to my MP a couple of weeks ago suggesting that as general public mask use was phased out, FFP3 masks should be prescribed by the NHS to the extremely clinically vulnerable. He promised to raise it with the Health Sec.

    Haven’t seen any sign of action yet. Seems a no brainer now the research is there to give them to healthcare workers and the vulnerable surely. Also why not make them a condition of entry to hospitals given what we know about the number of acquired infections there.

    It’s quite frustrating how the government is so poor at targeted interventions like this, which would cost relatively little and have such an outsized impact on outcomes.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Carnyx said:

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    I liked the time they gamed it with the entire RN and RAF going to the pub for the actual invasion. The Germans sustained 30% losses on the Channel crossing, all by themselves.........
    I've long been tempted to write a novel about an invasion (after I walked around a very atmospheric gun battery on the south coast and imagined a fleet of invasion ships coming across). Having read up on it, IMV to make it realistic a number of things would have to change.

    For one thing, the Germans would have had to wanted to invade England for several years; enough time to build a proper invasion fleet of landing craft, torpedo boats and other craft to harry the Royal Navy. Winning the Battle of Britain would also have been very important, and spies/saboteurs within the UK would have helped. There were others.

    I've got these changes written down somewhere, as the starting point for the writing. without them I couldn't really have the major battles I wanted on the mainland.
    There are alternative invasion routes you should consider for your novel. One is from Norway to Scotland (which was also considered in the other direction for D-Day). More realistic would be to use paratroopers for the initial invasion and have them capture and secure a British port, which could then be used to land German reinforcements of troops and armour. This was a genuine fear, and the Admiralty had plans to destroy ports by scuttling ships, dumping coal, and blowing up facilities, had the Nazis been about to invade.
    Yes, they might make be interesting outlines. In the plot outline I have, the Kriegsmarine defeat the Royal Navy in the Channel, and it is a battle for the Home Fleet to fight its way down from Scarpa Flow. And yes, I have German paratroopers playing a major part.

    I have written some; from memory, the first scene is of a nineteen year old boy watching the German invasion fleet come in as planes bomb the battery he has volunteered in. One strand of the book follows him during the retreat and then the fightback. As I'm a modern sort of person, another strand is from the viewpoint of a German sailor who gets stranded on the mainland. And that's the part I have a problem with, as I found it very hard to write from that viewpoint ...

    I am not a writer (tm). :)
    It's been pretty definitively shown that if the RN wasn't wiped out, sustaining an invasion of GB would have been impossible.
    One way the RN could have been wiped out would have been for it to engage the German navy close enough to Germany for the Luftwaffe to divebomb the ships, in an area where manoeuvring was difficult.
    Which is why the RN got agitated when Churchill wanted them to sail the entire Home Fleet into the Baltic...
    The Channel would have been extremely close to the Luftwaffe on French airfields and similarly difficult for manoeuvering..
    At that point in time, the Luftwaffe had proved themselves not able to hit slow moving merchant ships effectively. Manoeuvring destroyers were pretty much immune.

    This led to RN over confidence in the Med, later in the war, when the Germans had figured out the issues and train their aircrews to hit ships.
    Stukas (short ranged, however) were much more dangerous than level bombers. But only if the RAF and FAA weren't around.
    Until they trained the Stuka pilots with effective tactics, not so much. They spent much of 1940 missing coastal steamers in the Channel, when they weren't attacking RAF airfields....

    Interestingly the RN had trained their dive bombers (Skuas) in the art of hitting ships at sea. Which they then did....
    Indeed, IIRC including at least one of the cruisers the Germans needed for Seeloewe.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,378


    Stukas (short ranged, however) were much more dangerous than level bombers. But only if the RAF and FAA weren't around.

    Very much so, although sustained anti-aircraft fire from ships was effective, not so much in hitting enemy aircraft, as in deterring pilots from pressing their attacks home. They tended to release their bombloads too soon.

    Far more deadly for Mediterranean convoys were attacks from submarines and torpedo boats. Italian sailors acquitted themsleves very well, in particular. It's still hard to understand why the Italian high command were unwilling to risk cruisers and destroyers against the Royal Navy.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    MattW said:

    Talking of newspapers, does anyone know how to read die Zeit.

    There's a glorious faceplant of an article by Bettina Schulz (who I thought reputable) starting thusly:

    The pandemic as an excuse for empty supermarket shelves

    Great Britain is in crisis, the new wave of infections is affecting countless industries. The government does not want to admit that many problems are due to Brexit.

    An analysis by Bettina Schulz , London

    For a long time the British supermarkets were able to hide their misery. For months, pasta, canned soups, avocados or honey were pushed onto the shelves so skilfully that it wasn't even noticeable how meager the selection really was. It is no longer possible, because now the employees are also missing. So there is no one who has time to sort the meager range of goods into Potemkin villages in a land of milk and honey.
    ...

    https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2021-07/grossbritannien-corona-krise-lieferengpaesse-supermaerkte-brexit-delta-personalmangel-pingedemic

    She’s right. Empty shelves are caused by Brexit.

    If it was caused by Covid we would be having the same problem in the European Union. We aren’t.
    With respect that is nonsense

    The pingdemic has caused the most almighty disruption and in my opinion is the cause of Boris's fall in the polls and was avoidable, especially as they are lifting the restrictions on the 16th August

    Not everything is Brexit no matter how much you wish it to be
    And there you have it: big g goes full circle.

    Have a re-read of Animal Farm. The bit where the animals stare through the window at the end. You’ve transmogrified into that which you once despised.
    I have no idea what you are talking about but if you lived in the UK, shopped in the UK, and kept off twitter, you may have your eyes opened to the actual reasons for perceived shortages and affirmed by a cross section PB posters
    He is referring to the part in Animal Farm where the animals couldn't tell the difference between the pigs and the humans (the former representing the communist elite and the latter the capitalists), when the pigs were supposed to have replaced the humans.

    I think I follow why he mentioned it, but he hasn't noticed that this is a beautifully analogous to nationalists who want their lot, who are pretty dodgy (see recent allegations plus Alex Salmond being described by his QC as a bully and a sex pest,) to replace the British establishment (which also has a lot of Scots in it), because the British establishment is, well, er, dodgy. Hmmm!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434
    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    Sorry war on woke warriors, was checking the the Levis site for something and note they now have a 'Genderless' category. When capitalism takes a side, the war tends to be over.

    There’ll be unisex hairdressers next!
    I do wonder what happens with blazers and suit jackets. Which side will they button on?
    Have a short horizontal slit halfway up and you can button the top on one side and the bottom on the other.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited July 2021
    moonshine said:

    I wrote to my MP a couple of weeks ago suggesting that as general public mask use was phased out, FFP3 masks should be prescribed by the NHS to the extremely clinically vulnerable. He promised to raise it with the Health Sec.

    Haven’t seen any sign of action yet. Seems a no brainer now the research is there to give them to healthcare workers and the vulnerable surely. Also why not make them a condition of entry to hospitals given what we know about the number of acquired infections there.

    It’s quite frustrating how the government is so poor at targeted interventions like this, which would cost relatively little and have such an outsized impact on outcomes.

    Writing to the government seems a waste of time recently. I wrote by email to Gove eighteen months back about something he was dealing with; nearly a year had passed and I had given up on getting a reply, when I got a one-liner saying the Cabinet Office didn't correspond on matters relating to specific departments (which by then it had become) and I should write to the Minister. So I sent a physical letter, thinking it would be harder to ignore, to the Minister some months back; so far, nothing.

    Contacting government as an ordinary punter often means waiting a bit, but the current shower seem worse at correspondence than ever I remember.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Nigelb said:

    WTAF
    Iraq war loot, presumably ?

    Rare Cuneiform Tablet Bearing Portion of Epic of Gilgamesh Forfeited to United States
    https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/rare-cuneiform-tablet-bearing-portion-epic-gilgamesh-forfeited-united-states
    The U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of New York ordered the forfeiture of a rare cuneiform tablet bearing a portion of the epic of Gilgamesh, a Sumerian poem considered one of the world’s oldest works of literature.

    Known as the Gilgamesh Dream Tablet, it originated in the area of modern-day Iraq and entered the United States contrary to federal law. An international auction house (the Auction House) later sold the tablet to Hobby Lobby Stores Inc. (Hobby Lobby), a prominent arts-and-crafts retailer based in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, for display at the Museum of the Bible (the Museum). Law enforcement agents seized the tablet from the Museum in September 2019.

    “Forfeiture of the Gilgamesh Dream Tablet demonstrates the Department’s continued commitment to eliminating smuggled cultural property from the U.S. art market,” said Assistant Attorney General Kenneth A. Polite Jr. of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division. “Thwarting trade in smuggled goods by seizing and forfeiting an ancient artifact shows the department’s dedication to using all available tools, including forfeiture, to ensure justice.”

    “This forfeiture represents an important milestone on the path to returning this rare and ancient masterpiece of world literature to its country of origin,” said Acting U.S. Attorney Jacquelyn M. Kasulis for the Eastern District of New York. “This office is committed to combating the black-market sale of cultural property and the smuggling of looted artifacts.”

    “The trafficking of cultural property and art is a lucrative criminal enterprise that transnational criminal organizations exploit to make a profit, regardless of its destructive consequence to cultures around the globe,” said Special Agent in Charge Peter C. Fitzhugh of Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), New York. “HSI continues to partner in art and antiquities investigations to ensure looted pieces are no longer trafficked through commerce for an illicit profit, because the cultural value of this tablet that travelled the world under false provenance exceeds any monetary value.”

    As alleged in the government’s amended complaint, in 2003, a U.S. antiquities dealer (the Antiquities Dealer) purchased the Gilgamesh Dream Tablet, encrusted with dirt and unreadable, from the family member of a London coin dealer. The Antiquities Dealer and a U.S. cuneiform expert shipped the tablet into the United States by international post without declaring the contents as required. After the tablet was imported and cleaned, experts in cuneiform recognized it as bearing a portion of the Gilgamesh epic. The tablet measures approximately 6 inches by 5 inches and is written in the Akkadian language....

    I didn't realise this is just the latest in a long involvement by Hobby Lobby with stolen artefacts.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby_Lobby_smuggling_scandal

    Followers of US politics will know that the company also tried to derail the Affordable Care Act.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burwell_v._Hobby_Lobby_Stores,_Inc.

    Nice set of folks.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,693

    Pulpstar said:

    All time medals per (million) capita

    Top -
    Finland 54
    GB 12.54
    USA 7.62
    India... 0.03 :D

    India's general underperformance in many sports is fascinating. As a country they have so much potential, but cannot seem quite to grasp it fully.
    Looking at the per capital tables there appears to be quite a significant correlation that religious countries underperform and the more secular countries overperform in Olympics. I don't know if that is fully explained by secular countries being on average richer.
    That's an interesting take I hadn't considered, thanks.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,755
    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    That's weird looking, but also kind-of beautiful. It looks more like an aeroplane than a power generator (although that's probably because both have to operate in flows).
    Interesting - do the propellers operate in advance of the leading edge or behind the trailing edge? I can't work it out. The latter would be worse for fatigue, as the flow regime would not be uniform, but not as bad as if the outriggers were actually lift-generating wings (just been reading aboiut that very issue in the B-35 bomber of yore): presumably the thing is neutrally buoyant.
    If it's fixed in position, then both depending on whether the tide is going in or out? If it's tethered so that it can reorientate downstream of the tethers then it looks like it would stabilise with the turbines behind the trailing edge - and this picture https://orbitalmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/O2-ARRIVAL-ORKNEY-7-700x550.jpg from https://orbitalmarine.com/o2/ also supports that if that's it in-situ (flow seems to be from short to long end, which means trailing edge) not still being towed (the blades would likely be in maintenance position on the surface if towed?).

    Edit: maybe the blades are on the surface and it is under tow. But even then, it would likely tow in the same orientation that water would flow?
    It does in fact generate in both directions (i.e. it's orientation is fixed, so flow direction changes with the tide)
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-57991442 (in the video)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,378
    MattW said:

    So what’s going on? It seems the case that Johnson and Sunak are keen on reopening the borders to foreign visitors as soon as possible, but that some other Cabinet ministers are more skeptical — so whoever briefed today’s papers might have been trying to gently bounce the decision over the line. The concerns of the cautious ministers are centered on the quality of vaccine certification in the U.S., which does not have a single digital vaccine passport scheme like the U.K. and EU, Swinford reports. He says some in government are worried that the American paper-based vaccine card, organized at state rather than federal level, could be vulnerable to forgery. Playbook is also told that some ministers are worried at being seen as soft on borders after being stung during the first wave and again by the Delta variant originally detected in India. Labour has made a major play of the government’s weakness on borders during the pandemic.

    https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/london-playbook/politico-london-playbook-fly-delta-7-up-fergie-time/

    We also do not know how huge the Delta wave will be in EU countries.

    Some quite large R values are building up in various places.

    UVDL is about to lose her 'EU success controlling COVID by vaccine rollout' narrative for a couple of months, but I'm sure she'll find somebody else to blame.

    Crucially dependent on the feedstock of unvaxxed population.





    That surge and falling away in Holland is peculiar.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Talking of newspapers, does anyone know how to read die Zeit.

    There's a glorious faceplant of an article by Bettina Schulz (who I thought reputable) starting thusly:

    The pandemic as an excuse for empty supermarket shelves

    Great Britain is in crisis, the new wave of infections is affecting countless industries. The government does not want to admit that many problems are due to Brexit.

    An analysis by Bettina Schulz , London

    For a long time the British supermarkets were able to hide their misery. For months, pasta, canned soups, avocados or honey were pushed onto the shelves so skilfully that it wasn't even noticeable how meager the selection really was. It is no longer possible, because now the employees are also missing. So there is no one who has time to sort the meager range of goods into Potemkin villages in a land of milk and honey.
    ...

    https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2021-07/grossbritannien-corona-krise-lieferengpaesse-supermaerkte-brexit-delta-personalmangel-pingedemic

    She’s right. Empty shelves are caused by Brexit.

    If it was caused by Covid we would be having the same problem in the European Union. We aren’t.
    But you don't have government-driven pingdemonium, either.
    It’s obvious that the grave incompetence of the Conservative government has made things worse, but the key, underlying problem here is Brexit. No question.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    The EU is competing no more than Scotland is.
    Don’t tell the BBC.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/57798490
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,450
    I am happy - nay, delighted - to report that the great Ready Flaked Parmesan Emergency has finally, after hours of widespread and harrowing deprivation, where people were forced to do home flaking with their bare hands and a grater, has now abated

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    moonshine said:

    I wrote to my MP a couple of weeks ago suggesting that as general public mask use was phased out, FFP3 masks should be prescribed by the NHS to the extremely clinically vulnerable. He promised to raise it with the Health Sec.

    Haven’t seen any sign of action yet. Seems a no brainer now the research is there to give them to healthcare workers and the vulnerable surely. Also why not make them a condition of entry to hospitals given what we know about the number of acquired infections there.

    It’s quite frustrating how the government is so poor at targeted interventions like this, which would cost relatively little and have such an outsized impact on outcomes.

    Yup, and given the effectiveness it's surely time to look at investing in long term domestic manufacturing to supply the NHS and other sectors indefinitely.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,600

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    4 of my son's friends went clubbing in London last week as a post school treat. 3 of them are now confirmed as having caught Covid, one quite badly and the fourth is self isolating. Its a pretty small sample but it does suggest that the opening of nightclubs is going to be a challenge to the figures. All of them had had 1 vaccine but in some cases too recently for it to give much protection.

    The original hope was that the vast majority of those who were fully vaxxed would not catch Covid at all. That does not seem to be happening. They do catch it but the symptoms are much less severe and death is almost unheard of. Whilst this is good news it does mean that we are not achieving the level of herd immunity from vaccines that we once hoped. It also means we have a lot of mainly minor cases to come.

    We are probably 2-3 days away from hospital admissions turning negative on a week to week basis too. The question is whether there will be sufficient potential victims left for a fourth wave in the autumn. I think, given the above, there will be, unfortunately.

    Yes, I think that nightclubs are the main potential spreading events. It will be interesting to see if much comes out of Lattitude and other music festivals. Indoor music venues too come the autumn.

    I agree though about vaccinated folk. While obviously it gives major protection against hospitalisation, the effect on spreading seems much more modest.
    Son and girlfriend are going to London on Monday. They won't be going clubbing but they are worried about the tube. Hopefully it continues to be quieter. They are seriously considering using Uber instead given the risks. They are a sensible couple with their heads screwed on but it is going to be a worry.
    Unless they need to travel at rush hour for some reason, particularly the morning rush hour, the tubes are not crowded and therefore feel safe. If still worried, then changing carriages every couple of stops reduces your chance of prolonged exposure to anyone infected. And as Foxy says London is a good walking city, so they should check how long the walks would take instead.
    I'm not so sure with Delta that you need the x minute exposure that was true of other variants.

    A decent mask and staying in the same carriage is probably a better risk (and less hassle).
    Much higher viral shedding (up to 1000x) by infectious individuals almost certainly accounts for that.

    I was a bit shocked to hear that one of my son's (twenty-something) acquaintances died of COVID this week.
    It might help persuade the youngsters if a bit more was made of young people dying, especially if they were otherwise well.
    Maybe it is a time for a shock and horror campaign focused on the young? Maybe it is a bad idea and poor psychology to try and scare them into getting the bloody jab. But everything else doesn't seem to work. I suggested last night a TV ad campaign with a young guy on a ventilator being told it is now too late to get the vaccine.
    Yes. It needs to be like the AIDS campaign now, don’t die of ignorance.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    MattW said:

    Talking of newspapers, does anyone know how to read die Zeit.

    There's a glorious faceplant of an article by Bettina Schulz (who I thought reputable) starting thusly:

    The pandemic as an excuse for empty supermarket shelves

    Great Britain is in crisis, the new wave of infections is affecting countless industries. The government does not want to admit that many problems are due to Brexit.

    An analysis by Bettina Schulz , London

    For a long time the British supermarkets were able to hide their misery. For months, pasta, canned soups, avocados or honey were pushed onto the shelves so skilfully that it wasn't even noticeable how meager the selection really was. It is no longer possible, because now the employees are also missing. So there is no one who has time to sort the meager range of goods into Potemkin villages in a land of milk and honey.
    ...

    https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2021-07/grossbritannien-corona-krise-lieferengpaesse-supermaerkte-brexit-delta-personalmangel-pingedemic

    She’s right. Empty shelves are caused by Brexit.

    If it was caused by Covid we would be having the same problem in the European Union. We aren’t.
    With respect that is nonsense

    The pingdemic has caused the most almighty disruption and in my opinion is the cause of Boris's fall in the polls and was avoidable, especially as they are lifting the restrictions on the 16th August

    Not everything is Brexit no matter how much you wish it to be
    And there you have it: big g goes full circle.

    Have a re-read of Animal Farm. The bit where the animals stare through the window at the end. You’ve transmogrified into that which you once despised.
    I have no idea what you are talking about but if you lived in the UK, shopped in the UK, and kept off twitter, you may have your eyes opened to the actual reasons for perceived shortages and affirmed by a cross section PB posters
    He is referring to the part in Animal Farm where the animals couldn't tell the difference between the pigs and the humans (the former representing the communist elite and the latter the capitalists), when the pigs were supposed to have replaced the humans.

    I think I follow why he mentioned it, but he hasn't noticed that this is a beautifully analogous to nationalists who want their lot, who are pretty dodgy (see recent allegations plus Alex Salmond being described by his QC as a bully and a sex pest,) to replace the British establishment (which also has a lot of Scots in it), because the British establishment is, well, er, dodgy. Hmmm!
    Thank you and seems a probable explanation
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    The EU is competing no more than Scotland is.
    Or the UK..
    Indeed.

    Folk see what they want to see.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,378
    MattW said:

    Talking of newspapers, does anyone know how to read die Zeit.

    There's a glorious faceplant of an article by Bettina Schulz (who I thought reputable) starting thusly:

    The pandemic as an excuse for empty supermarket shelves

    Great Britain is in crisis, the new wave of infections is affecting countless industries. The government does not want to admit that many problems are due to Brexit.

    An analysis by Bettina Schulz , London

    For a long time the British supermarkets were able to hide their misery. For months, pasta, canned soups, avocados or honey were pushed onto the shelves so skilfully that it wasn't even noticeable how meager the selection really was. It is no longer possible, because now the employees are also missing. So there is no one who has time to sort the meager range of goods into Potemkin villages in a land of milk and honey.
    ...

    https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2021-07/grossbritannien-corona-krise-lieferengpaesse-supermaerkte-brexit-delta-personalmangel-pingedemic

    LOL!. Does she actually believe the rubbish she writes?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    Error message when posting on the new thread - so don't all rush to it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    Sean_F said:



    Stukas (short ranged, however) were much more dangerous than level bombers. But only if the RAF and FAA weren't around.

    Very much so, although sustained anti-aircraft fire from ships was effective, not so much in hitting enemy aircraft, as in deterring pilots from pressing their attacks home. They tended to release their bombloads too soon.

    Far more deadly for Mediterranean convoys were attacks from submarines and torpedo boats. Italian sailors acquitted themsleves very well, in particular. It's still hard to understand why the Italian high command were unwilling to risk cruisers and destroyers against the Royal Navy.

    Shortage of fuel was a big thing for the Italian fleet. Then there was the "fleet in being" idea.

    Plus the RN surface fleet had establish a moral dominance - they always fought and fought hard. The German surface fleet was so pushed back by this, that Hitler wanted to scrap the lot.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    edited July 2021
    Sean_F said:


    Very much so, although sustained anti-aircraft fire from ships was effective, not so much in hitting enemy aircraft, as in deterring pilots from pressing their attacks home. They tended to release their bombloads too soon.

    Far more deadly for Mediterranean convoys were attacks from submarines and torpedo boats. Italian sailors acquitted themsleves very well, in particular. It's still hard to understand why the Italian high command were unwilling to risk cruisers and destroyers against the Royal Navy.

    As I understand it the inter war Italian navy was built up partly to be a symbol of a resurgent world power? Difficult psychologically to put symbols at risk I think. They were also slow to adopt sonar and radar which may have been somewhat inhibiting.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    All time medals per (million) capita

    Top -
    Finland 54
    GB 12.54
    USA 7.62
    India... 0.03 :D

    India's general underperformance in many sports is fascinating. As a country they have so much potential, but cannot seem quite to grasp it fully.
    Looking at the per capital tables there appears to be quite a significant correlation that religious countries underperform and the more secular countries overperform in Olympics. I don't know if that is fully explained by secular countries being on average richer.
    People generally see the US as quite a religious country, even though it's credible to argue that they're mostly only pretending.

    You've probably nailed the main driver. Although having greater female equality will increase medal prospects, as well.
    The US is "surprisingly" behind most of Europe on the per capita Olympic tables. I guess only surprising because we are used to them being dominant but forget how populous it is compared to European countries.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434

    Nigelb said:

    Another Scottish success story.
    Actually British, with the anchors from Wales and the turbines from England. And investment from both the the EU and London..
    As this is a prototype, it's also a little early to call it a success. But I hope it will be.
    A previous prototype (different company) was installed off Ramsey Island in Pembrokeshire. I understand that didn't go too well...
    Tidal and wave power has been looked into for many decades now. They've never quite worked out (awaits those who start shouting 'Thatcher!'). They have so much potential, but it seems to be very hard to make them work reliably and economically. Yet hydroelectric dams are generally reliable (*). The difference is probably that maintenance on hydroelectric turbines are so much easier, and the environment much more controlled and passive?

    (*): Except in Russia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfW5MqT7CSA
    Salt in seawater is also a factor, but being able to control the water flow through the turbines makes a big difference in terms of knowing what forces you have to engineer it to withstand.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    NEW THREAD (but comments not working yet)
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798

    Pulpstar said:

    All time medals per (million) capita

    Top -
    Finland 54
    GB 12.54
    USA 7.62
    India... 0.03 :D

    India's general underperformance in many sports is fascinating. As a country they have so much potential, but cannot seem quite to grasp it fully.
    Poor levels of nutrition especially in childhood probably explains some of it. Hard to become a professional athlete if you spend your childhood undernourished.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,378

    Sean_F said:


    Very much so, although sustained anti-aircraft fire from ships was effective, not so much in hitting enemy aircraft, as in deterring pilots from pressing their attacks home. They tended to release their bombloads too soon.

    Far more deadly for Mediterranean convoys were attacks from submarines and torpedo boats. Italian sailors acquitted themsleves very well, in particular. It's still hard to understand why the Italian high command were unwilling to risk cruisers and destroyers against the Royal Navy.

    As I understand it the inter war Italian navy was built up partly to be a symbol of a resurgent world power? Difficult psychologically to put symbols at risk I think. They were also slow to adopt sonar and radar which may have been somewhat inhibiting.
    Had the Italian surface navy attacked during Operation Pedestal, they would have suffered heavy losses, but they would have sunk the convoy, and Malta would have fallen.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    Xtrain said:

    Where are the empty shelves. Did a full shop yesterday. No missing items.

    It is uncontrolled shortages. Which means you may have a load of stuff missing in Asda and plenty of everything in nearby Tesco. Or vice versa. Seeing full shelves doesn't mean there are no shortages.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    How many would they have if the US entered its states, or China its provinces, so each had more teams than the EU?
    How many would Great Britain have if Wales, Scotland and England entered, so each had more competitors and teams?

    Result of the Field Hockey at the 1908 Olympics:

    Gold England
    Silver Ireland
    Joint bronze Scotland and Wales
    5th Germany
    6th France
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Ah but the English-Speaking Peoples (© Winston Churchill) have 23 Golds to the EU's 16. Adding together the Commonwealth is left as an exercise for the reader.
    I’m sure the Americans will be delighted to hear that 4 July 1776 was all in vain. The English still think they own the place.
    Well you seem to think the EU owns France, etc.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    The EU is not a single team. As pointed out earlier, other multinational groupings are available for comparisons which are just as valid.
    Oh, and there is no England team either.
    There is always an England team.

    If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited July 2021
    "A quarter of Britons haven't been hugged since the first lockdown last March and 44% haven't made a single new friend, survey finds

    25% of Brits haven't been hugged in a year, while 37% haven't in six months
    Meanwhile, nearly half haven't made a new friend in the last year
    Researchers say there is 'huge risk' community spirit will be lost"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9831577/A-QUARTER-Britons-havent-hugged-pandemic-began.html
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    The BBC coverage is a joke. The event has started and instead they're in the studio chatting rather than showing the bloody sport. Get on with it.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694

    Xtrain said:

    Where are the empty shelves. Did a full shop yesterday. No missing items.

    It is uncontrolled shortages. Which means you may have a load of stuff missing in Asda and plenty of everything in nearby Tesco. Or vice versa. Seeing full shelves doesn't mean there are no shortages.
    My husband has just come back from Tescos and said there seemed to be a lot of large sized jars of coffee, salad cream, etc. on the shelves rather than the smaller sizes. It could be, as Rochdale Pioneers said, to make the shelves look full.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Delighted to see the covid theatre of plastic screens and one way systems dismantled at Sainsbury’s last night.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    edited July 2021

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    How many would they have if the US entered its states, or China its provinces, so each had more teams than the EU?
    How many would Great Britain have if Wales, Scotland and England entered, so each had more competitors and teams?

    Result of the Field Hockey at the 1908 Olympics:

    Gold England
    Silver Ireland
    Joint bronze Scotland and Wales
    5th Germany
    6th France
    We would have picked up a couple more medals in golf on the rare occasions it has been contested and lost many more in team events and relays. Perhaps a recent Engand u23 Olympic football win as well.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    DougSeal said:

    Delighted to see the covid theatre of plastic screens and one way systems dismantled at Sainsbury’s last night.

    Yes me too.

    To the contrary - this is a message from our local Snowdome (indoor skiing):

    "Following the Government’s announcement regarding the easing of restrictions from Monday 19th July, Snozone will still request our members and guests to wear face coverings at all times within our venues.

    We further request that guests and members respectfully retain social distancing measures as before, using their good judgement as prescriptive internal signage will now be removed.

    Whilst we acknowledge the steps taken to re-establish previous practices, we also recognise that the pandemic is still very much with us and the health, safety and well-being of our team, members and guests is and will continue to be of paramount importance.

    We therefore kindly request that these measures are adhered to and that a respectful space is given to each other.

    We appreciate your support."
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    MaxPB said:

    The BBC coverage is a joke. The event has started and instead they're in the studio chatting rather than showing the bloody sport. Get on with it.

    I do wonder if there is a limit on the total number of hours they can show so they are being careful,,
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Scottish Government sparks online debate by referring to pregnant ‘people’ – not pregnant ‘women’

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1420320724951216133?s=20
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Leon said:

    I am happy - nay, delighted - to report that the great Ready Flaked Parmesan Emergency has finally, after hours of widespread and harrowing deprivation, where people were forced to do home flaking with their bare hands and a grater, has now abated

    The End of Days averted once again. How many near misses will we have?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Stocky said:

    DougSeal said:

    Delighted to see the covid theatre of plastic screens and one way systems dismantled at Sainsbury’s last night.

    Yes me too.

    To the contrary - this is a message from our local Snowdome (indoor skiing):

    "Following the Government’s announcement regarding the easing of restrictions from Monday 19th July, Snozone will still request our members and guests to wear face coverings at all times within our venues.

    We further request that guests and members respectfully retain social distancing measures as before, using their good judgement as prescriptive internal signage will now be removed.

    Whilst we acknowledge the steps taken to re-establish previous practices, we also recognise that the pandemic is still very much with us and the health, safety and well-being of our team, members and guests is and will continue to be of paramount importance.

    We therefore kindly request that these measures are adhered to and that a respectful space is given to each other.

    We appreciate your support."
    Ah, baby steps and all that. Haven’t felt as chipper as I have this week for a while. If the sun stays out I’m going to the beach.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    DougSeal said:

    Delighted to see the covid theatre of plastic screens and one way systems dismantled at Sainsbury’s last night.

    Strikes me as very optimistic from Sainsbury's. They will be pretty pissed off when they have to put them back in September.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    SandraMc said:

    Xtrain said:

    Where are the empty shelves. Did a full shop yesterday. No missing items.

    It is uncontrolled shortages. Which means you may have a load of stuff missing in Asda and plenty of everything in nearby Tesco. Or vice versa. Seeing full shelves doesn't mean there are no shortages.
    My husband has just come back from Tescos and said there seemed to be a lot of large sized jars of coffee, salad cream, etc. on the shelves rather than the smaller sizes. It could be, as Rochdale Pioneers said, to make the shelves look full.
    Similar report from Mrs C at one of our nearer Tescos. Stock spread out on the shelves. A nearby 'refill store' is doing the same.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250

    MattW said:

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    On the channel, two historical things I picked up on recently.

    Mine barriers laid across the Channel to block uboats.

    That all of the German undersea telegraph cables in the channel were cut within hours of the start of WW1. Exactly the same basic strategy as WW2. Make them use radio.
    https://warandsecurity.com/2014/08/05/britain-cuts-german-cable-communications-5-august-1914/
    One podcast I listened to put the allies winning World War I down to the cutting of the cables in the first days of the war. It meant the Germans had to use radio, and that allowed the Zimmerman telegram to be intercepted, and helped lead the US to war.

    In the Cold War the Americans and UK tried intercepting communications in Berlin using a tunnel. Interestingly the Russians knew about the tunnel immediately due to George Bake's treachery, but they did not stop using the communication cables because they wanted to protect Blake ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gold
    There's a similar story about the Enigma machine (or similar) and the Doodlebugs. They were 'misdirected' away from Central London.
    I don't think that involved the Enigma, but a much more open form of misdirection. From memory, when a bomb exploded, the radio and newspapers would report it as being further north and west. This made the Germans think they were overshooting and reduce the range, meaning they were more likely to land in the lesser-populated southeast than London.

    Someone can probably correct me. ;)
    It was a combination - the primary channel were the German agents in Britain. Who were all working for MI6.....

    What was interesting was that they didn't misreport hits - they actually reported a skewed sample of the actual hits.
    The misdirecting of bombing was technological, broadcasting false signals that miatched the German guidance system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Beams
    It was all of them, and more.

    eg Don't forget, also, Operation Starfish.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_site#:~:text=Starfish sites were large-scale,their ordnance over the countryside.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    SandraMc said:

    Xtrain said:

    Where are the empty shelves. Did a full shop yesterday. No missing items.

    It is uncontrolled shortages. Which means you may have a load of stuff missing in Asda and plenty of everything in nearby Tesco. Or vice versa. Seeing full shelves doesn't mean there are no shortages.
    My husband has just come back from Tescos and said there seemed to be a lot of large sized jars of coffee, salad cream, etc. on the shelves rather than the smaller sizes. It could be, as Rochdale Pioneers said, to make the shelves look full.
    There was no Jordan’s Strawberry Country Crisp at Sainsbury’s last night. The end times are truly upon us.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    Delighted to see the covid theatre of plastic screens and one way systems dismantled at Sainsbury’s last night.

    Strikes me as very optimistic from Sainsbury's. They will be pretty pissed off when they have to put them back in September.
    You’re a ray of sunshine this morning,
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    The EU is not a single team. As pointed out earlier, other multinational groupings are available for comparisons which are just as valid.
    Oh, and there is no England team either.
    There is always an England team.

    If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
    Have you told the Olympic autthorities, yet?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250

    Nigelb said:

    Another Scottish success story.
    Actually British, with the anchors from Wales and the turbines from England. And investment from both the the EU and London..
    As this is a prototype, it's also a little early to call it a success. But I hope it will be.
    A previous prototype (different company) was installed off Ramsey Island in Pembrokeshire. I understand that didn't go too well...
    Tidal and wave power has been looked into for many decades now. They've never quite worked out (awaits those who start shouting 'Thatcher!'). They have so much potential, but it seems to be very hard to make them work reliably and economically. Yet hydroelectric dams are generally reliable (*). The difference is probably that maintenance on hydroelectric turbines are so much easier, and the environment much more controlled and passive?

    (*): Except in Russia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfW5MqT7CSA
    Salt in seawater is also a factor, but being able to control the water flow through the turbines makes a big difference in terms of knowing what forces you have to engineer it to withstand.
    St Malo says Hi.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    The EU is not a single team. As pointed out earlier, other multinational groupings are available for comparisons which are just as valid.
    Oh, and there is no England team either.
    There is always an England team.

    If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
    Are you sure? I would imagine the IOC would take a dim view of a country that is not a member entering aquatic fowl instead of people. Something MUST be done!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Leon said:

    I am happy - nay, delighted - to report that the great Ready Flaked Parmesan Emergency has finally, after hours of widespread and harrowing deprivation, where people were forced to do home flaking with their bare hands and a grater, has now abated

    Smells of sick - that's the issue.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    The BBC coverage is a joke. The event has started and instead they're in the studio chatting rather than showing the bloody sport. Get on with it.

    I do wonder if there is a limit on the total number of hours they can show so they are being careful,,
    Radio 5 live even worse, quarter of an hour of yacking about Simone Biles this morning when plenty of events I'm sure were on.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    DougSeal said:

    Stocky said:

    DougSeal said:

    Delighted to see the covid theatre of plastic screens and one way systems dismantled at Sainsbury’s last night.

    Yes me too.

    To the contrary - this is a message from our local Snowdome (indoor skiing):

    "Following the Government’s announcement regarding the easing of restrictions from Monday 19th July, Snozone will still request our members and guests to wear face coverings at all times within our venues.

    We further request that guests and members respectfully retain social distancing measures as before, using their good judgement as prescriptive internal signage will now be removed.

    Whilst we acknowledge the steps taken to re-establish previous practices, we also recognise that the pandemic is still very much with us and the health, safety and well-being of our team, members and guests is and will continue to be of paramount importance.

    We therefore kindly request that these measures are adhered to and that a respectful space is given to each other.

    We appreciate your support."
    Ah, baby steps and all that. Haven’t felt as chipper as I have this week for a while. If the sun stays out I’m going to the beach.
    It hasn't though. It's gone in.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    I do hope the public are asked to name it. I nominate HMS Bozo Mc Bozoface . The "Mc" bit can be there to keep the whingers north of the border happy.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Stocky said:

    DougSeal said:

    Delighted to see the covid theatre of plastic screens and one way systems dismantled at Sainsbury’s last night.

    Yes me too.

    To the contrary - this is a message from our local Snowdome (indoor skiing):

    "Following the Government’s announcement regarding the easing of restrictions from Monday 19th July, Snozone will still request our members and guests to wear face coverings at all times within our venues.

    We further request that guests and members respectfully retain social distancing measures as before, using their good judgement as prescriptive internal signage will now be removed.

    Whilst we acknowledge the steps taken to re-establish previous practices, we also recognise that the pandemic is still very much with us and the health, safety and well-being of our team, members and guests is and will continue to be of paramount importance.

    We therefore kindly request that these measures are adhered to and that a respectful space is given to each other.

    We appreciate your support."
    Ah, baby steps and all that. Haven’t felt as chipper as I have this week for a while. If the sun stays out I’m going to the beach.
    It hasn't though. It's gone in.
    Broken sunshine here after some rain. Not as nice as last week but not bad either. Probably won’t risk a barbecue but I think it’s warm enough to go swimming.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,259
    DougSeal said:

    Delighted to see the covid theatre of plastic screens and one way systems dismantled at Sainsbury’s last night.

    Sainsbury's was the only shop I wore a mask in on my Sunday shopping trip, as it was the only one with a sign up asking you to still wear a mask.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    I do hope the public are asked to name it. I nominate HMS Bozo Mc Bozoface . The "Mc" bit can be there to keep the whingers north of the border happy.
    Here's the bit missed out. This is vaccine stats quality of media reporting ie sh*t.

    "The replacement for the long-scrapped Britannia, a brainchild of the prime minister, Boris Johnson, would be commissioned at “between £200m and £250m at a firm price”, Ben Wallace told a specially convened conference at Greenwich.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    Delighted to see the covid theatre of plastic screens and one way systems dismantled at Sainsbury’s last night.

    Sainsbury's was the only shop I wore a mask in on my Sunday shopping trip, as it was the only one with a sign up asking you to still wear a mask.
    I wore a mask there yesterday until I saw that many of the staff and about 1/3 of the shoppers weren’t. So I took it off.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Stocky said:

    DougSeal said:

    Delighted to see the covid theatre of plastic screens and one way systems dismantled at Sainsbury’s last night.

    Yes me too.

    To the contrary - this is a message from our local Snowdome (indoor skiing):

    "Following the Government’s announcement regarding the easing of restrictions from Monday 19th July, Snozone will still request our members and guests to wear face coverings at all times within our venues.

    We further request that guests and members respectfully retain social distancing measures as before, using their good judgement as prescriptive internal signage will now be removed.

    Whilst we acknowledge the steps taken to re-establish previous practices, we also recognise that the pandemic is still very much with us and the health, safety and well-being of our team, members and guests is and will continue to be of paramount importance.

    We therefore kindly request that these measures are adhered to and that a respectful space is given to each other.

    We appreciate your support."
    Ah, baby steps and all that. Haven’t felt as chipper as I have this week for a while. If the sun stays out I’m going to the beach.
    It hasn't though. It's gone in.
    Not very sunny here ATM. But, but, but u3a Wine Appreciation Group starts again today. Glasses of wine and nibbles in someone's garden.
    And I could, afterwards, go to the Beer Festival at the local Cricket Club, although I really feel that's a job for tomorrow.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434

    As a presidential candidate, Donald Trump’s wild, fabulist pronouncements inspired a horrified curiosity in American journalists and a cynical delight in millions of voters. The diverging reactions were explained thus: ‘The press takes him literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally.’

    Nicola Sturgeon can’t take the press seriously because it insists on taking her literally. She was asked at her Tuesday media briefing why all 40-to-49 year olds hadn’t received their second dose of the Covid vaccine by 26 July. You won’t believe how those inky pedants had come up with such a specific target and precise date: they had gone and rewatched some thing from a month ago where someone said, ‘By 26 July, we expect to have given second doses to all 40 to 49-year-olds.’

    And, get this, just because that thing was a statement to the Scottish Parliament and the someone who made it was the First Minister, they were now expecting her to explain it. The nerve of these people.


    https://stephendaisley.substack.com/p/nicolas-level

    There's an 8-week gap between doses, so the maximum number of second doses that could have been given by 26th July is equal to the number of first doses given eight weeks earlier, by May 31st.

    For the 40-49 age group first doses were at 85.69% on 31st May. So that's the target. The second dose percentage for that age group on July 26th was 77.35%

    That's a miss. The second dose percentage matches a gap between doses of nine weeks. So they're a week behind. Doesn't seem like that should be too terrible to admit to.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another Scottish success story.
    Actually British, with the anchors from Wales and the turbines from England. And investment from both the the EU and London..
    As this is a prototype, it's also a little early to call it a success. But I hope it will be.
    A previous prototype (different company) was installed off Ramsey Island in Pembrokeshire. I understand that didn't go too well...
    Tidal and wave power has been looked into for many decades now. They've never quite worked out (awaits those who start shouting 'Thatcher!'). They have so much potential, but it seems to be very hard to make them work reliably and economically. Yet hydroelectric dams are generally reliable (*). The difference is probably that maintenance on hydroelectric turbines are so much easier, and the environment much more controlled and passive?

    (*): Except in Russia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfW5MqT7CSA
    Salt in seawater is also a factor, but being able to control the water flow through the turbines makes a big difference in terms of knowing what forces you have to engineer it to withstand.
    St Malo says Hi.
    That other big problem with tidal power is, paradoxically, environmental damage. It is essentially a trade off between getting nice clean non-fossil fuel power which is predictable (unlike wind and solar), but at a price to the local ecology that is potentially very high.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,600

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    Brilliant video. That guy is a great YouTube follow, documenting his life on a narrowboat with some humour.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Based on the below I think we can expect England at least to break the seven day run of day on day falls today unfortunately -


  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    Andy_JS said:

    "A quarter of Britons haven't been hugged since the first lockdown last March and 44% haven't made a single new friend, survey finds

    25% of Brits haven't been hugged in a year, while 37% haven't in six months
    Meanwhile, nearly half haven't made a new friend in the last year
    Researchers say there is 'huge risk' community spirit will be lost"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9831577/A-QUARTER-Britons-havent-hugged-pandemic-began.html

    Not hugging people is one of the few upsides of the pandemic.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    DougSeal said:

    Based on the below I think we can expect England at least to break the seven day run of day on day falls today unfortunately -


    Backfilling Sunday to backfilling Monday though, to be expected.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Andy_JS said:

    "A quarter of Britons haven't been hugged since the first lockdown last March and 44% haven't made a single new friend, survey finds

    25% of Brits haven't been hugged in a year, while 37% haven't in six months
    Meanwhile, nearly half haven't made a new friend in the last year
    Researchers say there is 'huge risk' community spirit will be lost"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9831577/A-QUARTER-Britons-havent-hugged-pandemic-began.html

    Not hugging people is one of the few upsides of the pandemic.
    Got my new car yesterday and me and the salesman instinctively shook hands. For both of us it was the first time in a year - we simultaneously apologised to one another!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    DougSeal said:

    Based on the below I think we can expect England at least to break the seven day run of day on day falls today unfortunately -


    It's a wednesday - which always heralded the step change up in increasing cases so I'd be surprised if it didn't.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    DougSeal said:

    Based on the below I think we can expect England at least to break the seven day run of day on day falls today unfortunately -


    That's why I compare the "previous" days seven day average with "todays" seven day average. Individual days of data are not really suitable for such comparisons.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    Based on the below I think we can expect England at least to break the seven day run of day on day falls today unfortunately -


    That's why I compare the "previous" days seven day average with "todays" seven day average. Individual days of data are not really suitable for such comparisons.
    Tell the media that. They’ll be clutching their pearls at 4.05 this PM.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited July 2021
    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A quarter of Britons haven't been hugged since the first lockdown last March and 44% haven't made a single new friend, survey finds

    25% of Brits haven't been hugged in a year, while 37% haven't in six months
    Meanwhile, nearly half haven't made a new friend in the last year
    Researchers say there is 'huge risk' community spirit will be lost"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9831577/A-QUARTER-Britons-havent-hugged-pandemic-began.html

    Not hugging people is one of the few upsides of the pandemic.
    Got my new car yesterday and me and the salesman instinctively shook hands. For both of us it was the first time in a year - we simultaneously apologised to one another!
    Is surface-to-surface transmission still a thing?

    This morning our carpet fitter insisted on the elbow bump thing while speaking directly to me from about a metre.

    More Covid-theatre absurdity as far as I'm concerned.
This discussion has been closed.