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Are we rushing to premature conclusions about the latest COVID figures? – politicalbetting.com

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  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,693
    theProle said:

    MattW said:

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    On the channel, two historical things I picked up on recently.

    Mine barriers laid across the Channel to block uboats.

    That all of the German undersea telegraph cables in the channel were cut within hours of the start of WW1. Exactly the same basic strategy as WW2. Make them use radio.
    https://warandsecurity.com/2014/08/05/britain-cuts-german-cable-communications-5-august-1914/
    One podcast I listened to put the allies winning World War I down to the cutting of the cables in the first days of the war. It meant the Germans had to use radio, and that allowed the Zimmerman telegram to be intercepted, and helped lead the US to war.

    In the Cold War the Americans and UK tried intercepting communications in Berlin using a tunnel. Interestingly the Russians knew about the tunnel immediately due to George Bake's treachery, but they did not stop using the communication cables because they wanted to protect Blake ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gold
    There's a similar story about the Enigma machine (or similar) and the Doodlebugs. They were 'misdirected' away from Central London.
    I don't think that involved the Enigma, but a much more open form of misdirection. From memory, when a bomb exploded, the radio and newspapers would report it as being further north and west. This made the Germans think they were overshooting and reduce the range, meaning they were more likely to land in the lesser-populated southeast than London.

    Someone can probably correct me. ;)
    It was a combination - the primary channel were the German agents in Britain. Who were all working for MI6.....

    What was interesting was that they didn't misreport hits - they actually reported a skewed sample of the actual hits.
    IIRC what they did was particularly subtle - they provided accurately the approximate times and locations of impact - but for different V1s. They matched the times of impact for the ones which had fallen short to the locations of the ones which had gone long.

    Both of these peices of information were relatively easy for the Germans to verify (they knew the launch times and approximate flight time and could take ariel photos of the bomb sites), which added to their agent's veracity.

    The combined effect was to make it look if the bombs which had been set to run the shortest had tended to go long - and the Germans had no way to discover this was in fact entirely untrue.

    If one is interested in both how we did intelligence and attempted countermeasures against the Germans, particularly on new technology, R V Jones "Most Secret War" is worth a read (he was one of the scientists in the "scientific intelligence" unit involved with a lot of this stuff).
    That's a brilliant book.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    The planned T31 frigates (if the tories don't bin them) all appear to be named at random: Active, Bulldog, Campbeltown, Formidable and Venturer.
    At least they haven't decided to name one Thatcher yet.
    Thatcher would be an Icebreaker, and named "Iron Lady".
    Handbag-class?
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    tlg86 said:

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Wait - are we saying that the EU should be treated as a single entity that's allowed to enter 27 separate teams into every event? Hardly a level playing field. Should the US be allowed to enter 50 teams (one for each state)?
    Or at least 27 teams to be fair.
    The UK as well?
    Should every country be allowed 27 entries?
    Wait till you see how many teams 'Oxford' and 'Cambridge' are allowed to enter into University Challenge!
    I reckon Oxford or Cambridge would win Uni Challenge every year if they entered single teams.
    Ah, so it's to give the thickos a chance! Dashed sporting of them..
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    MattW said:

    Scottish Government sparks online debate by referring to pregnant ‘people’ – not pregnant ‘women’

    What are they trying to distract attention from today?
    https://stephendaisley.substack.com/p/nicolas-level
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    All time medals per (million) capita

    Top -
    Finland 54
    GB 12.54
    USA 7.62
    India... 0.03 :D

    India's general underperformance in many sports is fascinating. As a country they have so much potential, but cannot seem quite to grasp it fully.
    Looking at the per capital tables there appears to be quite a significant correlation that religious countries underperform and the more secular countries overperform in Olympics. I don't know if that is fully explained by secular countries being on average richer.
    People generally see the US as quite a religious country, even though it's credible to argue that they're mostly only pretending.

    You've probably nailed the main driver. Although having greater female equality will increase medal prospects, as well.
    The US is "surprisingly" behind most of Europe on the per capita Olympic tables. I guess only surprising because we are used to them being dominant but forget how populous it is compared to European countries.
    Also given the inequality rampant in the US I’d guess that the elite sporting and training opportunities there aren’t available to everyone.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited July 2021

    Would the following individuals have performed better, worse, or about the same as Boris Johnson if they had been Prime Minister during the pandemic?

    Jeremy Corbyn: 48% worse
    Rishi Sunak: 39% about the same
    Theresa May: 36% worse
    Tony Blair: 33% worse




    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420353762733043714?s=20

    The public are clearly idiots....the two on that list who have made sensible interventions throughout this pandemic, whete their suggestions have been improvements are Blair and Hunt i.e. demonstrated they were more likely to handle things better, where as Starmer has showed no such ability.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    The planned T31 frigates (if the tories don't bin them) all appear to be named at random: Active, Bulldog, Campbeltown, Formidable and Venturer.
    At least they haven't decided to name one Thatcher yet.
    Thatcher would be an Icebreaker, and named "Iron Lady".
    Handbag-class?
    Strikebreaker, definitely not coal fired.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited July 2021
    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,466

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Wait - are we saying that the EU should be treated as a single entity that's allowed to enter 27 separate teams into every event? Hardly a level playing field. Should the US be allowed to enter 50 teams (one for each state)?
    Or at least 27 teams to be fair.
    The UK as well?
    Should every country be allowed 27 entries?
    Wait till you see how many teams 'Oxford' and 'Cambridge' are allowed to enter into University Challenge!
    Long been a bugbear of mine.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,707
    Personally, I'd like to see the Royal Navy adopt a more Iain M. Banks Culture ship naming convention.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Wait - are we saying that the EU should be treated as a single entity that's allowed to enter 27 separate teams into every event? Hardly a level playing field. Should the US be allowed to enter 50 teams (one for each state)?
    Or at least 27 teams to be fair.
    The UK as well?
    Should every country be allowed 27 entries?
    Wait till you see how many teams 'Oxford' and 'Cambridge' are allowed to enter into University Challenge!
    I reckon Oxford or Cambridge would win Uni Challenge every year if they entered single teams.
    Ah, so it's to give the thickos a chance! Dashed sporting of them..
    Which one rejected you out of interest?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,693
    New Johnson-class ship names:

    HMS Garden Bridge
    HMS Flags on Zipline
    HMS Alimony Payment
    HMS Brexit (sinks after a year)
    HMS Yet Another Kid
    HMS Boring Book
    HMS Cripes!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited July 2021

    Would the following individuals have performed better, worse, or about the same as Boris Johnson if they had been Prime Minister during the pandemic?

    Jeremy Corbyn: 48% worse
    Rishi Sunak: 39% about the same
    Theresa May: 36% worse
    Tony Blair: 33% worse




    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420353762733043714?s=20

    The public are clearly idiots....the two on that list who have made sensible interventions throughout this pandemic, whete their suggestions have been improvements are Blair and Hunt i.e. demonstrated they were more likely to handle things better, where as Starmer has showed no such ability.
    Blair was caught "recommending" things that had been discussed with him in confidence by the government before he spoke out - so apart from presentational skills I'm not sure what he's added. Hunt might have been better - but the lack of preparedness and duff plan were his responsibility...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    I am happy - nay, delighted - to report that the great Ready Flaked Parmesan Emergency has finally, after hours of widespread and harrowing deprivation, where people were forced to do home flaking with their bare hands and a grater, has now abated

    Smells of sick - that's the issue.
    And if you look closely you will find that much of it is made from humble Gran Padano and is not the real deal.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited July 2021
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    All time medals per (million) capita

    Top -
    Finland 54
    GB 12.54
    USA 7.62
    India... 0.03 :D

    India's general underperformance in many sports is fascinating. As a country they have so much potential, but cannot seem quite to grasp it fully.
    Looking at the per capital tables there appears to be quite a significant correlation that religious countries underperform and the more secular countries overperform in Olympics. I don't know if that is fully explained by secular countries being on average richer.
    People generally see the US as quite a religious country, even though it's credible to argue that they're mostly only pretending.

    You've probably nailed the main driver. Although having greater female equality will increase medal prospects, as well.
    The US is "surprisingly" behind most of Europe on the per capita Olympic tables. I guess only surprising because we are used to them being dominant but forget how populous it is compared to European countries.
    Also given the inequality rampant in the US I’d guess that the elite sporting and training opportunities there aren’t available to everyone.
    There is also another massive driver....as we talked yesterday US sports. It totally distorts the "market", especially among poorer individuals e.g. it is probably why US has no pedigree in javelin, as if you have an incredibly powerful arm, baseball and american football is calling.

    And of course if you get your scholarship to college in a particular sport, it is very difficult to switch programmes and give another sport a go (and if it is for a major sport, you won't have chance to give any other sports a go anyway).
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    * Good
    ** Should give the performance medals to the horses then
    *** Walking shouldn't be an event
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,707
    edited July 2021
    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    There's too many weird and wonderful sports that ought not to be there. Dressage. Skateboarding. 3v3 basketball. Everything that essentially has a bigger event or major prize - so no golf, no tennis, no football. I'm unconvinced about volleyball (either form), handball, baseball and basketball (regular). The velodrome yes, the cycling road race and time trial, no.

    The swimming should essentially have a decathlon/omnium type event. Swimmer are allowed to enter their chosen stroke at one single distance, one relay event at one single distance, plus a multi-race event where points are allocated on a range of strokes and distances, one round of which will consist of an IM.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,693

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Wait - are we saying that the EU should be treated as a single entity that's allowed to enter 27 separate teams into every event? Hardly a level playing field. Should the US be allowed to enter 50 teams (one for each state)?
    Or at least 27 teams to be fair.
    The UK as well?
    Should every country be allowed 27 entries?
    Wait till you see how many teams 'Oxford' and 'Cambridge' are allowed to enter into University Challenge!
    Long been a bugbear of mine.
    It's been years since I've watched it: doesn't London Uni also send individual colleges as well?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Wait - are we saying that the EU should be treated as a single entity that's allowed to enter 27 separate teams into every event? Hardly a level playing field. Should the US be allowed to enter 50 teams (one for each state)?
    Or at least 27 teams to be fair.
    The UK as well?
    Should every country be allowed 27 entries?
    Wait till you see how many teams 'Oxford' and 'Cambridge' are allowed to enter into University Challenge!
    Long been a bugbear of mine.
    It's been years since I've watched it: doesn't London Uni also send individual colleges as well?
    Yes but what used to be the biggest ones, UCL and Imperial, have declared UDI from London anyway.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited July 2021

    Would the following individuals have performed better, worse, or about the same as Boris Johnson if they had been Prime Minister during the pandemic?

    Jeremy Corbyn: 48% worse
    Rishi Sunak: 39% about the same
    Theresa May: 36% worse
    Tony Blair: 33% worse




    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420353762733043714?s=20

    The public are clearly idiots....the two on that list who have made sensible interventions throughout this pandemic, whete their suggestions have been improvements are Blair and Hunt i.e. demonstrated they were more likely to handle things better, where as Starmer has showed no such ability.
    Blair was caught "recommending" things that had been discussed with him in confidence by the government before he spoke out - so apart from presentational skills I'm not sure what he's added. Hunt might have been better - but the lack of preparedness and duff plan were his responsibility...
    Sure it was underhand from Blair, but does it also not show he is switched on enough to realise thats a good idea and stay away from some of the duffer ideas.

    Where as Boris has to have to Jack and Jill level explanations.

    As for Hunt poor planning, the point is the planning was a flu pandemic, but that isn't what we got. In fact it was worse, it looks a lot ike a flu pandemic, but it isn't, covid is weird, as you have days showing no symptoms, the 7 day period where you don't know if at the end of that if you are going to go downhill so rapidly you could be a deaths door hourse later and the fact it wrecks vital organs. It is why the initial response went in the wrong direction.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Wait - are we saying that the EU should be treated as a single entity that's allowed to enter 27 separate teams into every event? Hardly a level playing field. Should the US be allowed to enter 50 teams (one for each state)?
    Or at least 27 teams to be fair.
    The UK as well?
    Should every country be allowed 27 entries?
    Wait till you see how many teams 'Oxford' and 'Cambridge' are allowed to enter into University Challenge!
    Long been a bugbear of mine.
    It's been years since I've watched it: doesn't London Uni also send individual colleges as well?
    It does, though aren't some of them genuinely independent these days?

    I think Durham briefly sent colleges but I think they stopped when they realised it was a disadvantage.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited July 2021
    R4 report govt has agreed for England double vaxed EU & US citizens can visit without quarantine - issue is variability of US vaccine certificate from digital (NY, CA) to card like the NHS vaccination card. I suppose they could insist on digital only - or significant deterrents/punishment for forgeries.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    AlistairM said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    * Good
    ** Should give the performance medals to the horses then
    *** Walking shouldn't be an event
    ** Everyone knows Valegro was a massive help for Dujardin winning loads of her medals, the equivalent of Hamilton's merc in the F1 up till about this year.
    *** I'd agree on this one, but for a different reason than you're suggesting - the competitors are never actually walking.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,466
    AlistairM said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    * Good
    ** Should give the performance medals to the horses then
    *** Walking shouldn't be an event
    Pace Stephen fry, walking is like a competition to see who can whisper the loudest... Had the swimming debate yesterday with the wife. I think it could be restricted to who can go the fastest (which would be freestyle). Always thought it a bit unfair how many medals swimmers can amass. Also think that the distances are odd too. 100 m athletics is very different to 200, 400, 800 and 1500. Are the equivalent in swimming so different? I’d argue not.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Thunderstorm has arrived.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited July 2021

    Would the following individuals have performed better, worse, or about the same as Boris Johnson if they had been Prime Minister during the pandemic?

    Jeremy Corbyn: 48% worse
    Rishi Sunak: 39% about the same
    Theresa May: 36% worse
    Tony Blair: 33% worse




    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420353762733043714?s=20

    The public are clearly idiots....the two on that list who have made sensible interventions throughout this pandemic, whete their suggestions have been improvements are Blair and Hunt i.e. demonstrated they were more likely to handle things better, where as Starmer has showed no such ability.
    …Blair was caught "recommending" things that had been discussed with him in confidence by the government before he spoke out…
    So Hancock briefed, anyway.

    Edit:

    Actually, Blair’s thinktank is coming up with all sorts of interesting stuff. A few months ago I moaned about the lack of policy thinking on the left. Blair’s thinktank is going some great work.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Caught a bit of the dressage yesterday. Unfortunately.

    Whether it should or should not be at the Olympics is beside the point. It is boring as fuck, unnatural, and unintelligible to all but the most avid fan.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Would the following individuals have performed better, worse, or about the same as Boris Johnson if they had been Prime Minister during the pandemic?

    Jeremy Corbyn: 48% worse
    Rishi Sunak: 39% about the same
    Theresa May: 36% worse
    Tony Blair: 33% worse




    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420353762733043714?s=20

    The public are clearly idiots....the two on that list who have made sensible interventions throughout this pandemic, whete their suggestions have been improvements are Blair and Hunt i.e. demonstrated they were more likely to handle things better, where as Starmer has showed no such ability.
    The idea that any of them could have done worse than the incumbent is ridiculous to begin with.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    AlistairM said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    * Good
    ** Should give the performance medals to the horses then
    *** Walking shouldn't be an event
    Pace Stephen fry, walking is like a competition to see who can whisper the loudest... Had the swimming debate yesterday with the wife. I think it could be restricted to who can go the fastest (which would be freestyle). Always thought it a bit unfair how many medals swimmers can amass. Also think that the distances are odd too. 100 m athletics is very different to 200, 400, 800 and 1500. Are the equivalent in swimming so different? I’d argue not.
    Or slapping. There are slapping competitions out there. That should replace dressage. Actually anything should replace dressage.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,466
    Why is the bbc going mad about Simone biles? I couldn’t give a stuff. Concentrate on our athletes please.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Why is the bbc going mad about Simone biles? I couldn’t give a stuff. Concentrate on our athletes please.

    I know. I just really don't care.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Wait - are we saying that the EU should be treated as a single entity that's allowed to enter 27 separate teams into every event? Hardly a level playing field. Should the US be allowed to enter 50 teams (one for each state)?
    Or at least 27 teams to be fair.
    The UK as well?
    Should every country be allowed 27 entries?
    Wait till you see how many teams 'Oxford' and 'Cambridge' are allowed to enter into University Challenge!
    True - and often with student bodies of 3k or less they keep winning against those with 10 x as many students.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited July 2021
    Not all of them - in fact some of them are royally p*ssed off:

    New coronavirus cases have declined for six days in a row in Britain, a shift that is baffling scientists, many of whom predicted a powerful surge in cases after the government relaxed all but a handful of restrictions in England last week

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/07/27/world/covid-delta-variant-vaccine#new-virus-cases-are-falling-in-the-uk-baffling-scientists
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited July 2021

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    There's too many weird and wonderful sports that ought not to be there. Dressage. Skateboarding. 3v3 basketball. Everything that essentially has a bigger event or major prize - so no golf, no tennis, no football. I'm unconvinced about volleyball (either form), handball, baseball and basketball (regular). The velodrome yes, the cycling road race and time trial, no.

    The swimming should essentially have a decathlon/omnium type event. Swimmer are allowed to enter their chosen stroke at one single distance, one relay event at one single distance, plus a multi-race event where points are allocated on a range of strokes and distances, one round of which will consist of an IM.
    The test for me should be is the Olympics the pinnacle of world competition in that sport....football, gold, road cycling and tennis obviously not, athletics and swimming yes, tricky with things like basketball but it isn't peak, but NBA so dominants that whole sport (but is so US dominated).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,693
    edited July 2021
    tlg86 said:

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Wait - are we saying that the EU should be treated as a single entity that's allowed to enter 27 separate teams into every event? Hardly a level playing field. Should the US be allowed to enter 50 teams (one for each state)?
    Or at least 27 teams to be fair.
    The UK as well?
    Should every country be allowed 27 entries?
    Wait till you see how many teams 'Oxford' and 'Cambridge' are allowed to enter into University Challenge!
    Long been a bugbear of mine.
    It's been years since I've watched it: doesn't London Uni also send individual colleges as well?
    It does, though aren't some of them genuinely independent these days?

    I think Durham briefly sent colleges but I think they stopped when they realised it was a disadvantage.
    According to wiki, ICL left in 2007 and City joined in 2016.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,390
    edited July 2021

    Would the following individuals have performed better, worse, or about the same as Boris Johnson if they had been Prime Minister during the pandemic?

    Jeremy Corbyn: 48% worse
    Rishi Sunak: 39% about the same
    Theresa May: 36% worse
    Tony Blair: 33% worse




    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420353762733043714?s=20

    That's possibly the most pointless opinion survey I've ever seen.

    The correct answer, in every single case, is "don't know". Even Corbyn.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    AlistairM said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    * Good
    ** Should give the performance medals to the horses then
    *** Walking shouldn't be an event
    Pace Stephen fry, walking is like a competition to see who can whisper the loudest... Had the swimming debate yesterday with the wife. I think it could be restricted to who can go the fastest (which would be freestyle). Always thought it a bit unfair how many medals swimmers can amass. Also think that the distances are odd too. 100 m athletics is very different to 200, 400, 800 and 1500. Are the equivalent in swimming so different? I’d argue not.
    Makes me smile to see the BBC get so excited about the sprinting ability of Adam Peaty - of course as a breaststroke specialist he's one of the slowest swimmers at the Olympics with even alsorans in the other events quicker.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Would the following individuals have performed better, worse, or about the same as Boris Johnson if they had been Prime Minister during the pandemic?

    Jeremy Corbyn: 48% worse
    Rishi Sunak: 39% about the same
    Theresa May: 36% worse
    Tony Blair: 33% worse




    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420353762733043714?s=20

    The public are clearly idiots....the two on that list who have made sensible interventions throughout this pandemic, whete their suggestions have been improvements are Blair and Hunt i.e. demonstrated they were more likely to handle things better, where as Starmer has showed no such ability.
    …Blair was caught "recommending" things that had been discussed with him in confidence by the government before he spoke out…
    So Hancock briefed, anyway.

    Edit:

    Actually, Blair’s thinktank is coming up with all sorts of interesting stuff. A few months ago I moaned about the lack of policy thinking on the left. Blair’s thinktank is going some great work.
    Is it getting any traction within Labour?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    Not all of them - in fact some of them are royally p*ssed off:

    New coronavirus cases have declined for six days in a row in Britain, a shift that is baffling scientists, many of whom predicted a powerful surge in cases after the government relaxed all but a handful of restrictions in England last week

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/07/27/world/covid-delta-variant-vaccine#new-virus-cases-are-falling-in-the-uk-baffling-scientists

    The wrong sort of facts....

    "The stocks were sold; the Press was squared:
    The Middle Class was quite prepared.
    But as it is! . . . My language fails!"
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    Japan reports 9,576 new coronavirus cases, by far the biggest one-day increase on record...

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1420361988497104896
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Wait - are we saying that the EU should be treated as a single entity that's allowed to enter 27 separate teams into every event? Hardly a level playing field. Should the US be allowed to enter 50 teams (one for each state)?
    Or at least 27 teams to be fair.
    The UK as well?
    Should every country be allowed 27 entries?
    Wait till you see how many teams 'Oxford' and 'Cambridge' are allowed to enter into University Challenge!
    I reckon Oxford or Cambridge would win Uni Challenge every year if they entered single teams.
    Ah, so it's to give the thickos a chance! Dashed sporting of them..
    Which one rejected you out of interest?
    Oxford polythechnic?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Why is the bbc going mad about Simone biles? I couldn’t give a stuff. Concentrate on our athletes please.

    In the old days it would be known as choking. Now it's mental health issues.

    Obviously competing at the top is tough, but I actually think her behaviour is a little disrespectful to her competitors.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    TOPPING said:

    Caught a bit of the dressage yesterday. Unfortunately.

    Whether it should or should not be at the Olympics is beside the point. It is boring as fuck, unnatural, and unintelligible to all but the most avid fan.

    And you're relying on benefactors to spend millions on the best horse to even have a chance. Completely closed playing field has no real business being so well rewarded.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    ***And hopping (hurdles, steeplechase).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    tlg86 said:

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Wait - are we saying that the EU should be treated as a single entity that's allowed to enter 27 separate teams into every event? Hardly a level playing field. Should the US be allowed to enter 50 teams (one for each state)?
    Or at least 27 teams to be fair.
    The UK as well?
    Should every country be allowed 27 entries?
    Wait till you see how many teams 'Oxford' and 'Cambridge' are allowed to enter into University Challenge!
    I reckon Oxford or Cambridge would win Uni Challenge every year if they entered single teams.
    Ah, so it's to give the thickos a chance! Dashed sporting of them..
    Noblesse oblige, old chap.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Why is the bbc going mad about Simone biles? I couldn’t give a stuff. Concentrate on our athletes please.

    Glad it 's not just me! Can't they just give her the mental health gold medal and move on.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Would the following individuals have performed better, worse, or about the same as Boris Johnson if they had been Prime Minister during the pandemic?

    Jeremy Corbyn: 48% worse
    Rishi Sunak: 39% about the same
    Theresa May: 36% worse
    Tony Blair: 33% worse




    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420353762733043714?s=20

    The public are clearly idiots....the two on that list who have made sensible interventions throughout this pandemic, whete their suggestions have been improvements are Blair and Hunt i.e. demonstrated they were more likely to handle things better, where as Starmer has showed no such ability.
    …Blair was caught "recommending" things that had been discussed with him in confidence by the government before he spoke out…
    So Hancock briefed, anyway.

    Edit:

    Actually, Blair’s thinktank is coming up with all sorts of interesting stuff. A few months ago I moaned about the lack of policy thinking on the left. Blair’s thinktank is going some great work.
    Is it getting any traction within Labour?
    It seems not.

    I made this point to my “well-connected Labour friend” on the weekend and he assured me that “Blair was getting a hearing” but there’s no bloody evidence of it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Straw poll of two of my office colleagues, they won't be voting Starmer - would vote Labour if and only if Burnham was in charge.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    ***And hopping (hurdles, steeplechase).
    I was at the Varsity Athletics meeting back in 1994. We had a walker but Cambridge hadn't sent any so our guy just did it on his own - walking round and round the track for half an hour while everyone watched. Felt really sorry for him, but it got him his blue.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,466
    felix said:

    Why is the bbc going mad about Simone biles? I couldn’t give a stuff. Concentrate on our athletes please.

    Glad it 's not just me! Can't they just give her the mental health gold medal and move on.
    She’d have to share it with Osaka...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,931
    edited July 2021

    Why is the bbc going mad about Simone biles? I couldn’t give a stuff. Concentrate on our athletes please.

    Funny enough, I was saying the opposite this morning: that the BBC is jumping around too much following British medal prospects at the expense of overall coverage of each sport and the Games themselves. Of course, in the old days there were not so many British prospects, especially in medal-heavy minority sports, so it was easier for the BBC.

    ETA re Simone Biles specifically, I refer the honourable gentleman to my usual rant about the BBC mindlessly following American news channels, especially overnight and at weekends.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    felix said:

    Why is the bbc going mad about Simone biles? I couldn’t give a stuff. Concentrate on our athletes please.

    Glad it 's not just me! Can't they just give her the mental health gold medal and move on.
    Perhaps that particular gold should go to someone who made their mental health call before the event started rather than working it out after a substitute was no longer possible. As it was she already got a silver for a contribution you'd struggle to call positive.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited July 2021

    Why is the bbc going mad about Simone biles? I couldn’t give a stuff. Concentrate on our athletes please.

    One of the BBC reporters was engaging in some hyperbole, claiming gymnasts put their lives on the line every time they compete. Now i am sure you could significantly injury yourself if you lose focus and get a move wrong, but everywhere they are massive padded surfaces.

    How many gymnasts have died getting a move wrong compared to deaths in things like motorsport or combat sports? Lose focus in F1 and you can go into a concrete wall at 200mph or MMA a size 12 foot hits you square in the face knocking you unconscious.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    HMG confirm vaccinated travellers from the EU and US can travel to England
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Would the following individuals have performed better, worse, or about the same as Boris Johnson if they had been Prime Minister during the pandemic?

    Jeremy Corbyn: 48% worse
    Rishi Sunak: 39% about the same
    Theresa May: 36% worse
    Tony Blair: 33% worse




    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420353762733043714?s=20

    The public are clearly idiots....the two on that list who have made sensible interventions throughout this pandemic, whete their suggestions have been improvements are Blair and Hunt i.e. demonstrated they were more likely to handle things better, where as Starmer has showed no such ability.
    …Blair was caught "recommending" things that had been discussed with him in confidence by the government before he spoke out…
    So Hancock briefed, anyway.

    Edit:

    Actually, Blair’s thinktank is coming up with all sorts of interesting stuff. A few months ago I moaned about the lack of policy thinking on the left. Blair’s thinktank is going some great work.
    Is it getting any traction within Labour?
    It seems not.

    I made this point to my “well-connected Labour friend” on the weekend and he assured me that “Blair was getting a hearing” but there’s no bloody evidence of it.
    It's funny - both Labour and the Tories have/had a dysfunctional relationship with their greatest post-war leaders - some Tories believing the Thatcher of 1980 was relevant to the Britain of 2020, some Labour believing Blair was a Tory. I suppose it says more about their successors than anything else!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,931
    maaarsh said:

    TOPPING said:

    Caught a bit of the dressage yesterday. Unfortunately.

    Whether it should or should not be at the Olympics is beside the point. It is boring as fuck, unnatural, and unintelligible to all but the most avid fan.

    And you're relying on benefactors to spend millions on the best horse to even have a chance. Completely closed playing field has no real business being so well rewarded.
    You'll not have watched the sailing then? Even more expensive and just as hard to tell who is winning.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Why is the bbc going mad about Simone biles? I couldn’t give a stuff. Concentrate on our athletes please.

    Seriously? She is a young person, perhaps a role model, affected by mental health.

    These past 18 months have been hugely injurious to the mental wellbeing of in particular young people and children.

    If some of them think - well she is talking about it so can I then it will be fantastic; if they see the sympathetic coverage and think I won't be ridiculed if I share my problems then that will be amazing; if they realise that it is widespread and hence they are not suffering on their own, that will be hugely beneficial.

    Other than that, no idea.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    HMG confirm vaccinated travellers from the EU and US can travel to England

    Good news.

    My brother is coming from Brussels next month. I haven’t seen him for maybe two years.

    I personally favour completely open* borders from, say, October.

    *As in, the status quo ante.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    In what way is dressage not a sport? Both horse and rider have to be fit and skilled, and must communicate well together, and must attain objectives defined by strict rules of the sport. How is that different than, say, football.

    Personally, I find dressage boring. But just because you, AlistairM, don't understand the sport, does not mean that it is not a sport.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Pulpstar said:

    Straw poll of two of my office colleagues, they won't be voting Starmer - would vote Labour if and only if Burnham was in charge.

    Burnham needs to do a Jacinda.

    As in, oust Keir just a few months from the election and build a big mo.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    HMG confirm vaccinated travellers from the EU and US can travel to England

    Good news.

    My brother is coming from Brussels next month. I haven’t seen him for maybe two years.

    I personally favour completely open* borders from, say, October.

    *As in, the status quo ante.
    I'm delighted the Wife was able to see her mother in the States after nearly 18 months (not nearly as much as some I admit) and it was a huge weight off my mind. Hope you and your bro have a great time!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533

    Would the following individuals have performed better, worse, or about the same as Boris Johnson if they had been Prime Minister during the pandemic?

    Jeremy Corbyn: 48% worse
    Rishi Sunak: 39% about the same
    Theresa May: 36% worse
    Tony Blair: 33% worse




    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420353762733043714?s=20

    The public are clearly idiots....the two on that list who have made sensible interventions throughout this pandemic, whete their suggestions have been improvements are Blair and Hunt i.e. demonstrated they were more likely to handle things better, where as Starmer has showed no such ability.
    …Blair was caught "recommending" things that had been discussed with him in confidence by the government before he spoke out…
    So Hancock briefed, anyway.

    Edit:

    Actually, Blair’s thinktank is coming up with all sorts of interesting stuff. A few months ago I moaned about the lack of policy thinking on the left. Blair’s thinktank is going some great work.
    Is it getting any traction within Labour?
    It seems not.

    I made this point to my “well-connected Labour friend” on the weekend and he assured me that “Blair was getting a hearing” but there’s no bloody evidence of it.
    I read his stuff regularly, so do several people who I know. The membership is less Blairphobic than you might think (and the leadership even less so). I doubt if Alastair Campbell will be kept out forever either.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    maaarsh said:

    TOPPING said:

    Caught a bit of the dressage yesterday. Unfortunately.

    Whether it should or should not be at the Olympics is beside the point. It is boring as fuck, unnatural, and unintelligible to all but the most avid fan.

    And you're relying on benefactors to spend millions on the best horse to even have a chance. Completely closed playing field has no real business being so well rewarded.
    You'll not have watched the sailing then? Even more expensive and just as hard to tell who is winning.
    It's not remotely as expensive to get in to dingy racing and work out if you have any ability - It's not a fundamentally free sport, but it's massively more open than dressage.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    In what way is dressage not a sport? Both horse and rider have to be fit and skilled, and must communicate well together, and must attain objectives defined by strict rules of the sport. How is that different than, say, football.

    Personally, I find dressage boring. But just because you, AlistairM, don't understand the sport, does not mean that it is not a sport.
    What about a Chimps' tea party?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited July 2021

    Why is the bbc going mad about Simone biles? I couldn’t give a stuff. Concentrate on our athletes please.

    Funny enough, I was saying the opposite this morning: that the BBC is jumping around too much following British medal prospects at the expense of overall coverage of each sport and the Games themselves. Of course, in the old days there were not so many British prospects, especially in medal-heavy minority sports, so it was easier for the BBC.

    ETA re Simone Biles specifically, I refer the honourable gentleman to my usual rant about the BBC mindlessly following American news channels, especially overnight and at weekends.
    BBC this morning was a total mess. Now we know they can only show 2 live streams at any one time, but they ended up talking nonsense for ages on one stream and the other showing rowing with no Brits, while Team GB was in the semi final in the rugby and the ladies playing a crucial hockey match against India.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    edited July 2021
    maaarsh said:

    AlistairM said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    * Good
    ** Should give the performance medals to the horses then
    *** Walking shouldn't be an event
    Pace Stephen fry, walking is like a competition to see who can whisper the loudest... Had the swimming debate yesterday with the wife. I think it could be restricted to who can go the fastest (which would be freestyle). Always thought it a bit unfair how many medals swimmers can amass. Also think that the distances are odd too. 100 m athletics is very different to 200, 400, 800 and 1500. Are the equivalent in swimming so different? I’d argue not.
    Makes me smile to see the BBC get so excited about the sprinting ability of Adam Peaty - of course as a breaststroke specialist he's one of the slowest swimmers at the Olympics with even alsorans in the other events quicker.
    Adam Peaty I believe has some freak genetic double-jointedness which makes him naturally pre-disposed to being great at breast stroke. He clearly won the genetic lottery when it comes to all the characteristics needed to be good at that specific stroke.

    To give you an idea of how good he is as a result, Adrian Moorhouse set a WR for 100m breaststoke in 1990 of 1:01.49. Peaty's WR is now 56.88. That is 5 seconds, or 7.5% faster. If they had been in the same race when setting their WRs, Moorhouse would have been 7.5m behind Peaty.

    The 100m freestyle WR is 46.91 (interestingly set way back in 2009) and so breaststroke is nowhere close to that. Peaty's breaststroke would be competitive with the Peter Fick in freestyle. Peter Fick set the freestyle WR in 1934, 1935 and 1936!

    I do think there should be different distances in swimming. I just don't think there should be all the different strokes, just freestyle. Don't get me started on the medleys! That would be like getting a track competitor to cover 400m - 100m hopping, 100m skipping, 100m running backwards and 100m normal running. Frankly ridiculous.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Would the following individuals have performed better, worse, or about the same as Boris Johnson if they had been Prime Minister during the pandemic?

    Jeremy Corbyn: 48% worse
    Rishi Sunak: 39% about the same
    Theresa May: 36% worse
    Tony Blair: 33% worse




    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420353762733043714?s=20

    The public are clearly idiots....the two on that list who have made sensible interventions throughout this pandemic, whete their suggestions have been improvements are Blair and Hunt i.e. demonstrated they were more likely to handle things better, where as Starmer has showed no such ability.
    …Blair was caught "recommending" things that had been discussed with him in confidence by the government before he spoke out…
    So Hancock briefed, anyway.

    Edit:

    Actually, Blair’s thinktank is coming up with all sorts of interesting stuff. A few months ago I moaned about the lack of policy thinking on the left. Blair’s thinktank is going some great work.
    Is it getting any traction within Labour?
    It seems not.

    I made this point to my “well-connected Labour friend” on the weekend and he assured me that “Blair was getting a hearing” but there’s no bloody evidence of it.
    It's funny - both Labour and the Tories have/had a dysfunctional relationship with their greatest post-war leaders - some Tories believing the Thatcher of 1980 was relevant to the Britain of 2020, some Labour believing Blair was a Tory. I suppose it says more about their successors than anything else!
    Blair shat the bed with Iraq, obviously.

    Then continued shitting via various consultancies with third world kleptocrats.

    He’s never properly accounted for either.

    One can also blame him for initiating the very toxic relationship PMs now maintain with the media. Spot the pattern:

    Alistair Campbell
    Damian McBride
    Andy Coulson
    Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill
    Dominic Cummings

    But if you can excuse all that, he’s become practically the only thinking politician on the national scene (to the extent he is on the scene).
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    edited July 2021

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    There's too many weird and wonderful sports that ought not to be there. Dressage. Skateboarding. 3v3 basketball. Everything that essentially has a bigger event or major prize - so no golf, no tennis, no football. I'm unconvinced about volleyball (either form), handball, baseball and basketball (regular). The velodrome yes, the cycling road race and time trial, no.

    The swimming should essentially have a decathlon/omnium type event. Swimmer are allowed to enter their chosen stroke at one single distance, one relay event at one single distance, plus a multi-race event where points are allocated on a range of strokes and distances, one round of which will consist of an IM.
    Artistic gymnastics? Underwater artistic gymnastics with a big smile?

    Suggest Mountain Bike Bog Snorkelling so that Dame Corona Vaccine can get a medal.

    In SE Asia, with added crocodiles.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    In what way is dressage not a sport? Both horse and rider have to be fit and skilled, and must communicate well together, and must attain objectives defined by strict rules of the sport. How is that different than, say, football.

    Personally, I find dressage boring. But just because you, AlistairM, don't understand the sport, does not mean that it is not a sport.
    An Olympic sport should not be so heavily reliant on the performance of an animal. The Olympics is meant to be about the best of human sporting performance, not horses.

    If dressage is in the Olympics then why shouldn't horse racing be?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited July 2021
    AlistairM said:

    maaarsh said:

    AlistairM said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    * Good
    ** Should give the performance medals to the horses then
    *** Walking shouldn't be an event
    Pace Stephen fry, walking is like a competition to see who can whisper the loudest... Had the swimming debate yesterday with the wife. I think it could be restricted to who can go the fastest (which would be freestyle). Always thought it a bit unfair how many medals swimmers can amass. Also think that the distances are odd too. 100 m athletics is very different to 200, 400, 800 and 1500. Are the equivalent in swimming so different? I’d argue not.
    Makes me smile to see the BBC get so excited about the sprinting ability of Adam Peaty - of course as a breaststroke specialist he's one of the slowest swimmers at the Olympics with even alsorans in the other events quicker.
    Adam Peaty I believe has some freak genetic double-jointedness which makes him naturally pre-disposed to being great at breast stroke. He clearly won the genetic lottery when it comes to all the characteristics needed to be good at that specific stroke.

    To give you an idea of how good he is as a result, Adrian Moorhouse set a WR for 100m breaststoke in 1990 of 1:01.49. Peaty's WR is now 56.88. That is 5 seconds, or 7.5% faster. If they had been in the same race when setting their WRs, Moorhouse would have been 7.5m behind Peaty.

    The 100m freestyle WR is 46.91 (interestingly set way back in 2009) and so breaststroke is nowhere close to that. Peaty's breaststroke would be competitive with the Peter Fick in freestyle. Peter Fick set the freestyle WR in 1934, 1935 and 1936!

    I do think there should be different distances in swimming. I just don't think there should be all the different strokes, just freestyle. Don't get me started on the medleys! That would be like getting a track competitor to cover 400m - 100m hopping, 100m skipping, 100m running backwards and 100m normal running. Frankly ridiculous.
    Most of the GOATs of swimming are total human freaks...massive advantage if you have enormous hands and feet, huge disproportionate wingspan, while having a narrow body. If i remember correctly Phelps has the wingspan of somebody who should he over 7ft, packed into a 6ft 4 body.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    In what way is dressage not a sport? Both horse and rider have to be fit and skilled, and must communicate well together, and must attain objectives defined by strict rules of the sport. How is that different than, say, football.

    Personally, I find dressage boring. But just because you, AlistairM, don't understand the sport, does not mean that it is not a sport.
    There are some very grouchy sports fans on here this summer! First taking the knee, not enough spectators, then too many spectators, then the hundred and now they have to deal with dancing horses.....
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    I do hope the public are asked to name it. I nominate HMS Bozo Mc Bozoface . The "Mc" bit can be there to keep the whingers north of the border happy.
    That did emit a genuine chuckle.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    edited July 2021

    R4 report govt has agreed for England double vaxed EU & US citizens can visit without quarantine - issue is variability of US vaccine certificate from digital (NY, CA) to card like the NHS vaccination card. I suppose they could insist on digital only - or significant deterrents/punishment for forgeries.

    We also have variability - mobile phones need to reach Scotland aiui.
  • MaffewMaffew Posts: 235

    HMG confirm vaccinated travellers from the EU and US can travel to England

    It'll be interesting to see whether that means the end of amber-plus as a category. Seems utterly pointless if you're dealing with Schengen zone countries.

    It'll also be interesting to see whether there's reciprocity with the US and some EU countries (e.g. Austria).

    I'm happy with it either way, there's no good justification for restricting people vaccinated in the US/EU more heavily than people vaccinated here, but reciprocity would be nice.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Rugby players not happy bunnies....

    Tokyo Olympics: Great Britain sevens plans 'a joke' - Dan Bibby - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57995446
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    glw said:

    I have lots of highlanders in my social media streams, and I can assure you that they know who to credit and who to blame in this scenario. Boris Johnson’s name is dirt.

    People YOU follow on social media don't like Boris Johnson? That's a shock.
    I have friends who vote for all the parliamentary parties, and none. My Con-voting friends have been notably quiet for ages now. I assume they are simply too embarrassed.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    Would the following individuals have performed better, worse, or about the same as Boris Johnson if they had been Prime Minister during the pandemic?

    Jeremy Corbyn: 48% worse
    Rishi Sunak: 39% about the same
    Theresa May: 36% worse
    Tony Blair: 33% worse




    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420353762733043714?s=20

    The public are clearly idiots....the two on that list who have made sensible interventions throughout this pandemic, whete their suggestions have been improvements are Blair and Hunt i.e. demonstrated they were more likely to handle things better, where as Starmer has showed no such ability.
    …Blair was caught "recommending" things that had been discussed with him in confidence by the government before he spoke out…
    So Hancock briefed, anyway.

    Edit:

    Actually, Blair’s thinktank is coming up with all sorts of interesting stuff. A few months ago I moaned about the lack of policy thinking on the left. Blair’s thinktank is going some great work.
    Is it on the left though?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Piers Moron at it again....

    *NEW: Simon Biles calls herself the Greatest of All Time - but no GOAT would quit on their teammates like that, costing them an Olympic gold medal.
    Get back out there, Simone - you're a great champion not a quitter.
    My column: https://t.co/gxNC7kOMN2 https://t.co/bLs9vH2SW7
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    AlistairM said:

    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    In what way is dressage not a sport? Both horse and rider have to be fit and skilled, and must communicate well together, and must attain objectives defined by strict rules of the sport. How is that different than, say, football.

    Personally, I find dressage boring. But just because you, AlistairM, don't understand the sport, does not mean that it is not a sport.
    An Olympic sport should not be so heavily reliant on the performance of an animal. The Olympics is meant to be about the best of human sporting performance, not horses.

    If dressage is in the Olympics then why shouldn't horse racing be?
    Bikes?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Nigelb said:

    Another Scottish success story.
    Actually British, with the anchors from Wales and the turbines from England. And investment from both the the EU and London..
    As this is a prototype, it's also a little early to call it a success. But I hope it will be.
    Ok then, we’ll call it a European success story.

    You really don’t want to go down that road. Eg, how “British” is the car industry?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    AlistairM said:

    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    In what way is dressage not a sport? Both horse and rider have to be fit and skilled, and must communicate well together, and must attain objectives defined by strict rules of the sport. How is that different than, say, football.

    Personally, I find dressage boring. But just because you, AlistairM, don't understand the sport, does not mean that it is not a sport.
    An Olympic sport should not be so heavily reliant on the performance of an animal. The Olympics is meant to be about the best of human sporting performance, not horses.

    If dressage is in the Olympics then why shouldn't horse racing be?
    The Olympics has been put together in piecemeal fashion, adding or removing a sport or two each time. Perhaps horse racing will be in there at some point, eventing does have a horse race type element within it. The criteria various posters are trying to impose are not consistent with the history of the Olympics.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    AlistairM said:

    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    In what way is dressage not a sport? Both horse and rider have to be fit and skilled, and must communicate well together, and must attain objectives defined by strict rules of the sport. How is that different than, say, football.

    Personally, I find dressage boring. But just because you, AlistairM, don't understand the sport, does not mean that it is not a sport.
    An Olympic sport should not be so heavily reliant on the performance of an animal. The Olympics is meant to be about the best of human sporting performance, not horses.

    If dressage is in the Olympics then why shouldn't horse racing be?
    We need dog-dancing.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    Piers Moron at it again....

    *NEW: Simon Biles calls herself the Greatest of All Time - but no GOAT would quit on their teammates like that, costing them an Olympic gold medal.
    Get back out there, Simone - you're a great champion not a quitter.
    My column: https://t.co/gxNC7kOMN2 https://t.co/bLs9vH2SW7

    I don't think she should be attacked, but neither does what she did look particularly creditworthy to me. If she'd flagged her issues 30 minutes earlier the US team could have had a sub - as it was the other 3 all had to do the 5 remaining rotations whilst every other team was fielding 3 out of 4 each time.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    May be behind the polling decline:


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies @RedfieldWilton
    Is the UK Government currently taking the right measures to address the coronavirus pandemic? (25 July)

    Yes: 29% (-5)
    No: 53% (+3)
    Don’t know: 18% (+1)

    Changes +/- 19 July

    Highest % for 'no' since Oct 2020.


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420369056075554816?s=20
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    AlistairM said:

    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    In what way is dressage not a sport? Both horse and rider have to be fit and skilled, and must communicate well together, and must attain objectives defined by strict rules of the sport. How is that different than, say, football.

    Personally, I find dressage boring. But just because you, AlistairM, don't understand the sport, does not mean that it is not a sport.
    An Olympic sport should not be so heavily reliant on the performance of an animal. The Olympics is meant to be about the best of human sporting performance, not horses.

    If dressage is in the Olympics then why shouldn't horse racing be?
    I think Modern Pentathlon has a riding element: jumping I think, so timed?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    Why is the bbc going mad about Simone biles? I couldn’t give a stuff. Concentrate on our athletes please.

    I do support people being honest about and looking after their mental health, it's a positive move in society, but there comes a point when the celebrating the talking about it seems a bit patronising to me.

    Committing to the games at all, years of obsessive training for career and glory, might be seen as not a positive thing for mental health. I was struck by a comment by Daley about some of his own comments when still a child, how focused and obsessed he was, and how if his son talked like that he'd be 'wow, calm down', but he recognised that part of him just wanted it that much.

    There is a trade off, and it's not as straightforward as telling people to buck up - particularly when they some serious issues and experiences in play - but gushing over admissions of mental health concerns feels like it can be an over correction sometimes.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Wonder what the original dosing intervals were?


    BREAKING: Pfizer study shows that third dose of coronavirus vaccine is associated with a five-fold increase in antibodies in those aged 18-55 and an eleven-fold increase in those aged 65-85.


    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1420369093643833352?s=20
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited July 2021

    May be behind the polling decline:


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies @RedfieldWilton
    Is the UK Government currently taking the right measures to address the coronavirus pandemic? (25 July)

    Yes: 29% (-5)
    No: 53% (+3)
    Don’t know: 18% (+1)

    Changes +/- 19 July

    Highest % for 'no' since Oct 2020.


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420369056075554816?s=20

    The pingdemic i think has really hit them plus the worry over rising case numbers.

    It a double whammy of FFS i have to isolate, but i don't have COVID, soooo unfair, while also FFS cases are everywhere, whats going on aren't we all vaccinated.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    glw said:

    I have lots of highlanders in my social media streams, and I can assure you that they know who to credit and who to blame in this scenario. Boris Johnson’s name is dirt.

    People YOU follow on social media don't like Boris Johnson? That's a shock.
    I have friends who vote for all the parliamentary parties, and none. My Con-voting friends have been notably quiet for ages now. I assume they are simply too embarrassed.
    They've seen your posts on here?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    AlistairM said:

    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    In what way is dressage not a sport? Both horse and rider have to be fit and skilled, and must communicate well together, and must attain objectives defined by strict rules of the sport. How is that different than, say, football.

    Personally, I find dressage boring. But just because you, AlistairM, don't understand the sport, does not mean that it is not a sport.
    An Olympic sport should not be so heavily reliant on the performance of an animal. The Olympics is meant to be about the best of human sporting performance, not horses.

    If dressage is in the Olympics then why shouldn't horse racing be?
    Perhaps they should stop being speciesist and let horses compete in the other events. Put Pumpkin up against Usain Bolt.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Wonder what the original dosing intervals were?


    BREAKING: Pfizer study shows that third dose of coronavirus vaccine is associated with a five-fold increase in antibodies in those aged 18-55 and an eleven-fold increase in those aged 65-85.


    https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1420369093643833352?s=20

    Presumably three weeks
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,931
    AlistairM said:

    maaarsh said:

    AlistairM said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    * Good
    ** Should give the performance medals to the horses then
    *** Walking shouldn't be an event
    Pace Stephen fry, walking is like a competition to see who can whisper the loudest... Had the swimming debate yesterday with the wife. I think it could be restricted to who can go the fastest (which would be freestyle). Always thought it a bit unfair how many medals swimmers can amass. Also think that the distances are odd too. 100 m athletics is very different to 200, 400, 800 and 1500. Are the equivalent in swimming so different? I’d argue not.
    Makes me smile to see the BBC get so excited about the sprinting ability of Adam Peaty - of course as a breaststroke specialist he's one of the slowest swimmers at the Olympics with even alsorans in the other events quicker.
    Adam Peaty I believe has some freak genetic double-jointedness which makes him naturally pre-disposed to being great at breast stroke. He clearly won the genetic lottery when it comes to all the characteristics needed to be good at that specific stroke.

    To give you an idea of how good he is as a result, Adrian Moorhouse set a WR for 100m breaststoke in 1990 of 1:01.49. Peaty's WR is now 56.88. That is 5 seconds, or 7.5% faster. If they had been in the same race when setting their WRs, Moorhouse would have been 7.5m behind Peaty.

    The 100m freestyle WR is 46.91 (interestingly set way back in 2009) and so breaststroke is nowhere close to that. Peaty's breaststroke would be competitive with the Peter Fick in freestyle. Peter Fick set the freestyle WR in 1934, 1935 and 1936!

    I do think there should be different distances in swimming. I just don't think there should be all the different strokes, just freestyle. Don't get me started on the medleys! That would be like getting a track competitor to cover 400m - 100m hopping, 100m skipping, 100m running backwards and 100m normal running. Frankly ridiculous.
    Triathlon? Any -athlon?
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    AlistairM said:

    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    In what way is dressage not a sport? Both horse and rider have to be fit and skilled, and must communicate well together, and must attain objectives defined by strict rules of the sport. How is that different than, say, football.

    Personally, I find dressage boring. But just because you, AlistairM, don't understand the sport, does not mean that it is not a sport.
    An Olympic sport should not be so heavily reliant on the performance of an animal. The Olympics is meant to be about the best of human sporting performance, not horses.

    If dressage is in the Olympics then why shouldn't horse racing be?
    I think Modern Pentathlon has a riding element: jumping I think, so timed?
    With randomly allocated horses so an element of luck but also rider skill and not subject to quite as much suggestion of buying the win.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285

    May be behind the polling decline:


    Redfield & Wilton Strategies @RedfieldWilton
    Is the UK Government currently taking the right measures to address the coronavirus pandemic? (25 July)

    Yes: 29% (-5)
    No: 53% (+3)
    Don’t know: 18% (+1)

    Changes +/- 19 July

    Highest % for 'no' since Oct 2020.


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420369056075554816?s=20

    The pingdemic i think has really hit them plus the worry over rising case numbers. It a double whammy of FFS i have to isolate, but i don't have COVID, so unfair, while also FFS cases are everywhere.
    Just had a thought: how much has having the pingdemic helped to reduce the number of infections? Did it actually work, and that is why cases are falling? Or (more likely) is it just one of a number of factors?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773

    Piers Moron at it again....

    *NEW: Simon Biles calls herself the Greatest of All Time - but no GOAT would quit on their teammates like that, costing them an Olympic gold medal.
    Get back out there, Simone - you're a great champion not a quitter.
    My column: https://t.co/gxNC7kOMN2 https://t.co/bLs9vH2SW7

    He's being an arse, but it's true that performance under the greatest pressure is what sport is about. It's not about if you can do XYZ, but can you do it at the point when you have to.

    It's a tricky fine line that people should be looking after their mental health, clearly, and it's an important thing, but elite sport requires that pressure and that stress to also operate.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    The planned T31 frigates (if the tories don't bin them) all appear to be named at random: Active, Bulldog, Campbeltown, Formidable and Venturer.
    Wikipedia suggests that there is a theme for those names, however tenuous. I wonder how many hobnobs the naming committee had to go through to come up with that?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_31_frigate

    "The names were selected to represent key themes of the future plans of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines."
    I'm just surprised the Tories haven't included a Del Boy in the D class.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    maaarsh said:

    AlistairM said:

    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AlistairM said:

    Dressage should really not be at the Olympics. It is not a sport. Even though we seem to be quite good at it.

    Genuine question though. *Why are there separate mens and womens events for it? Does being one gender give a significant advantage? What about the horse's gender? Does a male rider have to compete on a male horse and female riders on female horses? If not, why not?

    To my eye it looks like the horse does all the hard work and the rider just sits there. It is like figure skating for horses. **Might as well give Olympic medals for choreography. That would at least be honest.

    It is even worse than having all the umpteen different swim medals for swimming with different strokes. Should just be freestyle. ***Otherwise why aren't there skipping, hopping and running backwards competitions on the track?

    * There aren't
    ** The choreography is scored in the individual competition.
    *** Walking is included in the program of events.
    In what way is dressage not a sport? Both horse and rider have to be fit and skilled, and must communicate well together, and must attain objectives defined by strict rules of the sport. How is that different than, say, football.

    Personally, I find dressage boring. But just because you, AlistairM, don't understand the sport, does not mean that it is not a sport.
    An Olympic sport should not be so heavily reliant on the performance of an animal. The Olympics is meant to be about the best of human sporting performance, not horses.

    If dressage is in the Olympics then why shouldn't horse racing be?
    I think Modern Pentathlon has a riding element: jumping I think, so timed?
    With randomly allocated horses so an element of luck but also rider skill and not subject to quite as much suggestion of buying the win.
    That's why it can be hilarious. Been awhile , but I recall seeing horses just refuse to leap and riders falling off as a result.
This discussion has been closed.