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Are we rushing to premature conclusions about the latest COVID figures? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    Stocky said:

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A quarter of Britons haven't been hugged since the first lockdown last March and 44% haven't made a single new friend, survey finds

    25% of Brits haven't been hugged in a year, while 37% haven't in six months
    Meanwhile, nearly half haven't made a new friend in the last year
    Researchers say there is 'huge risk' community spirit will be lost"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9831577/A-QUARTER-Britons-havent-hugged-pandemic-began.html

    Not hugging people is one of the few upsides of the pandemic.
    Got my new car yesterday and me and the salesman instinctively shook hands. For both of us it was the first time in a year - we simultaneously apologised to one another!
    Is surface-to-surface transmission still a thing?

    This morning our carpet fitter insisted on the elbow bump thing while speaking directly to me from about a metre.

    More Covid-theatre absurdity as far as I'm concerned.
    Ironically the same car dealership and I had a bit of a row in May when they insisted I use the one way system in their emply showroom which would have involved me spending more time indoors and thus placing myself at greater risk. Ah well. Rome wasn't built in a day.
  • Options
    AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    Talking of newspapers, does anyone know how to read die Zeit.

    There's a glorious faceplant of an article by Bettina Schulz (who I thought reputable) starting thusly:

    The pandemic as an excuse for empty supermarket shelves

    Great Britain is in crisis, the new wave of infections is affecting countless industries. The government does not want to admit that many problems are due to Brexit.

    An analysis by Bettina Schulz , London

    For a long time the British supermarkets were able to hide their misery. For months, pasta, canned soups, avocados or honey were pushed onto the shelves so skilfully that it wasn't even noticeable how meager the selection really was. It is no longer possible, because now the employees are also missing. So there is no one who has time to sort the meager range of goods into Potemkin villages in a land of milk and honey.
    ...

    https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2021-07/grossbritannien-corona-krise-lieferengpaesse-supermaerkte-brexit-delta-personalmangel-pingedemic

    LOL!. Does she actually believe the rubbish she writes?
    England's run of success in the Euros really revealed how bitter the European journalist class is over Brexit. They are like a jilted ex-girlfriend, always obsessively criticizing the man that ruined their life.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,167
    I can't see the full error on the other thread, but it's not accepting any of my excellent and interesting comments.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Stocky said:

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A quarter of Britons haven't been hugged since the first lockdown last March and 44% haven't made a single new friend, survey finds

    25% of Brits haven't been hugged in a year, while 37% haven't in six months
    Meanwhile, nearly half haven't made a new friend in the last year
    Researchers say there is 'huge risk' community spirit will be lost"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9831577/A-QUARTER-Britons-havent-hugged-pandemic-began.html

    Not hugging people is one of the few upsides of the pandemic.
    Got my new car yesterday and me and the salesman instinctively shook hands. For both of us it was the first time in a year - we simultaneously apologised to one another!
    Is surface-to-surface transmission still a thing?

    This morning our carpet fitter insisted on the elbow bump thing while speaking directly to me from about a metre.

    More Covid-theatre absurdity as far as I'm concerned.
    If it’s absurdity you want...

    https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-hands-down-punishment-to-james-roberts-over-quarantine-breach/news-story/621300cb876dd9d82f834381595e3787

    Now I get that “rules are rules” but... “gaffer tapes sealing windows and door shut” - for a virus where ventilation and fresh air are the main weapon?
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,410
    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Stocky said:

    DougSeal said:

    Delighted to see the covid theatre of plastic screens and one way systems dismantled at Sainsbury’s last night.

    Yes me too.

    To the contrary - this is a message from our local Snowdome (indoor skiing):

    "Following the Government’s announcement regarding the easing of restrictions from Monday 19th July, Snozone will still request our members and guests to wear face coverings at all times within our venues.

    We further request that guests and members respectfully retain social distancing measures as before, using their good judgement as prescriptive internal signage will now be removed.

    Whilst we acknowledge the steps taken to re-establish previous practices, we also recognise that the pandemic is still very much with us and the health, safety and well-being of our team, members and guests is and will continue to be of paramount importance.

    We therefore kindly request that these measures are adhered to and that a respectful space is given to each other.

    We appreciate your support."
    Ah, baby steps and all that. Haven’t felt as chipper as I have this week for a while. If the sun stays out I’m going to the beach.
    It hasn't though. It's gone in.
    Broken sunshine here after some rain. Not as nice as last week but not bad either. Probably won’t risk a barbecue but I think it’s warm enough to go swimming.
    For the last five days, the forecast has been very wet: the reality has been pleasant and breezy with the odd shower. If it stays like this for my holiday in the west country next week I will be very happy.

    I'm actually looking forward to my holiday this year, rather than, as last year, dreading its last minute cancellation or its being rendered utterly joyless due to the sudden imposition of arbitrary restrictions. God last year was awful. My mental health is so much better now than it was in 2020.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,610
    Excl: New head of NHS England will be confirmed by Boris Johnson today - Amanda Pritchard, deputy to current chief Simon Stevens, due to get the nod.

    Will be seen as sign of continuity as the NHS attempts to recover from the pandemic


    https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1420339572412715012?s=20
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    Scottish Government sparks online debate by referring to pregnant ‘people’ – not pregnant ‘women’

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/1420320724951216133?s=20

    It is symbolic of their struggle against oppression...
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,180
    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,167
    "The cost of this donation has been funded through UK Overseas Development Assistance, and will come over and above the ODA spending target of 0.5% of GNI if needed."

    They could have kept the 0.7% target and spent 0.2% on delivering vaccines and it would have been the same, but I guess they wouldn't have been able to fight a skirmish in the culture war over it.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    Data too long for column 'Name' at row 1|Gdn_Database|Query|insert `GDN_Discussion` (`InsertUserID`, `DateInserted`, `DateUpdated`, `CategoryID`, `ForeignID`, `Type`, `Name`, `Body`, `Format`, `Attributes`) values (:InsertUserID, :DateInserted, :DateUpdated, :CategoryID, :ForeignID, :Type, :Name, :Body, :Format, :Attributes) hmm
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,020
    edited July 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    "A quarter of Britons haven't been hugged since the first lockdown last March and 44% haven't made a single new friend, survey finds

    25% of Brits haven't been hugged in a year, while 37% haven't in six months
    Meanwhile, nearly half haven't made a new friend in the last year
    Researchers say there is 'huge risk' community spirit will be lost"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9831577/A-QUARTER-Britons-havent-hugged-pandemic-began.html

    Not hugging people is one of the few upsides of the pandemic.
    But coming to PB is like one great big virtual hug, n'est-ce pas?
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    Pulpstar said:

    Data too long for column 'Name' at row 1|Gdn_Database|Query|insert `GDN_Discussion` (`InsertUserID`, `DateInserted`, `DateUpdated`, `CategoryID`, `ForeignID`, `Type`, `Name`, `Body`, `Format`, `Attributes`) values (:InsertUserID, :DateInserted, :DateUpdated, :CategoryID, :ForeignID, :Type, :Name, :Body, :Format, :Attributes) hmm

    Never read a post I agreed with as much as this one. I want to 'like' it twice.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    alex_ said:

    Stocky said:

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A quarter of Britons haven't been hugged since the first lockdown last March and 44% haven't made a single new friend, survey finds

    25% of Brits haven't been hugged in a year, while 37% haven't in six months
    Meanwhile, nearly half haven't made a new friend in the last year
    Researchers say there is 'huge risk' community spirit will be lost"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9831577/A-QUARTER-Britons-havent-hugged-pandemic-began.html

    Not hugging people is one of the few upsides of the pandemic.
    Got my new car yesterday and me and the salesman instinctively shook hands. For both of us it was the first time in a year - we simultaneously apologised to one another!
    Is surface-to-surface transmission still a thing?

    This morning our carpet fitter insisted on the elbow bump thing while speaking directly to me from about a metre.

    More Covid-theatre absurdity as far as I'm concerned.
    If it’s absurdity you want...

    https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-hands-down-punishment-to-james-roberts-over-quarantine-breach/news-story/621300cb876dd9d82f834381595e3787

    Now I get that “rules are rules” but... “gaffer tapes sealing windows and door shut” - for a virus where ventilation and fresh air are the main weapon?
    If you could catch covid by walking under his balcony the virus would have an r0 of about 90 and the entire planet would be infected within a couple of weeks.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Stocky said:

    DougSeal said:

    Delighted to see the covid theatre of plastic screens and one way systems dismantled at Sainsbury’s last night.

    Yes me too.

    To the contrary - this is a message from our local Snowdome (indoor skiing):

    "Following the Government’s announcement regarding the easing of restrictions from Monday 19th July, Snozone will still request our members and guests to wear face coverings at all times within our venues.

    We further request that guests and members respectfully retain social distancing measures as before, using their good judgement as prescriptive internal signage will now be removed.

    Whilst we acknowledge the steps taken to re-establish previous practices, we also recognise that the pandemic is still very much with us and the health, safety and well-being of our team, members and guests is and will continue to be of paramount importance.

    We therefore kindly request that these measures are adhered to and that a respectful space is given to each other.

    We appreciate your support."
    Ah, baby steps and all that. Haven’t felt as chipper as I have this week for a while. If the sun stays out I’m going to the beach.
    It hasn't though. It's gone in.
    Broken sunshine here after some rain. Not as nice as last week but not bad either. Probably won’t risk a barbecue but I think it’s warm enough to go swimming.
    For the last five days, the forecast has been very wet: the reality has been pleasant and breezy with the odd shower. If it stays like this for my holiday in the west country next week I will be very happy.

    I'm actually looking forward to my holiday this year, rather than, as last year, dreading its last minute cancellation or its being rendered utterly joyless due to the sudden imposition of arbitrary restrictions. God last year was awful. My mental health is so much better now than it was in 2020.
    I hope you have a great time! My wife is over in the States at the moment visiting her family and, even though I didn't go, it's great to know for so many people the worst of this nightmare is (fingers crossed) coming to an end.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,167
    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719
    Leon said:

    I am happy - nay, delighted - to report that the great Ready Flaked Parmesan Emergency has finally, after hours of widespread and harrowing deprivation, where people were forced to do home flaking with their bare hands and a grater, has now abated

    That's great, but I'm not sure any of us will ever be the same again after this.

  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,324

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    I liked the time they gamed it with the entire RN and RAF going to the pub for the actual invasion. The Germans sustained 30% losses on the Channel crossing, all by themselves.........
    I've long been tempted to write a novel about an invasion (after I walked around a very atmospheric gun battery on the south coast and imagined a fleet of invasion ships coming across). Having read up on it, IMV to make it realistic a number of things would have to change.

    For one thing, the Germans would have had to wanted to invade England for several years; enough time to build a proper invasion fleet of landing craft, torpedo boats and other craft to harry the Royal Navy. Winning the Battle of Britain would also have been very important, and spies/saboteurs within the UK would have helped. There were others.

    I've got these changes written down somewhere, as the starting point for the writing. without them I couldn't really have the major battles I wanted on the mainland.
    There are alternative invasion routes you should consider for your novel. One is from Norway to Scotland (which was also considered in the other direction for D-Day). More realistic would be to use paratroopers for the initial invasion and have them capture and secure a British port, which could then be used to land German reinforcements of troops and armour. This was a genuine fear, and the Admiralty had plans to destroy ports by scuttling ships, dumping coal, and blowing up facilities, had the Nazis been about to invade.
    Yes, they might make be interesting outlines. In the plot outline I have, the Kriegsmarine defeat the Royal Navy in the Channel, and it is a battle for the Home Fleet to fight its way down from Scarpa Flow. And yes, I have German paratroopers playing a major part.

    I have written some; from memory, the first scene is of a nineteen year old boy watching the German invasion fleet come in as planes bomb the battery he has volunteered in. One strand of the book follows him during the retreat and then the fightback. As I'm a modern sort of person, another strand is from the viewpoint of a German sailor who gets stranded on the mainland. And that's the part I have a problem with, as I found it very hard to write from that viewpoint ...

    I am not a writer (tm). :)
    The ahistorical problem with that scenario is that in the summer of 1940 the Kriegsmarine had almost no operational ships so could never have defeated the Royal Navy. Perhaps if you posit a Pearl Harbor-like attack on the fleet at Scapa Flow. Though come to think of it, even that would not work because we'd have recalled the RN Mediterranean Fleet.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    DougSeal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Data too long for column 'Name' at row 1|Gdn_Database|Query|insert `GDN_Discussion` (`InsertUserID`, `DateInserted`, `DateUpdated`, `CategoryID`, `ForeignID`, `Type`, `Name`, `Body`, `Format`, `Attributes`) values (:InsertUserID, :DateInserted, :DateUpdated, :CategoryID, :ForeignID, :Type, :Name, :Body, :Format, :Attributes) hmm

    Never read a post I agreed with as much as this one. I want to 'like' it twice.
    I'm happy with that. ForeignID is what we voted against, dammit.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,180
    Stocky said:

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A quarter of Britons haven't been hugged since the first lockdown last March and 44% haven't made a single new friend, survey finds

    25% of Brits haven't been hugged in a year, while 37% haven't in six months
    Meanwhile, nearly half haven't made a new friend in the last year
    Researchers say there is 'huge risk' community spirit will be lost"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9831577/A-QUARTER-Britons-havent-hugged-pandemic-began.html

    Not hugging people is one of the few upsides of the pandemic.
    Got my new car yesterday and me and the salesman instinctively shook hands. For both of us it was the first time in a year - we simultaneously apologised to one another!
    Is surface-to-surface transmission still a thing?

    This morning our carpet fitter insisted on the elbow bump thing while speaking directly to me from about a metre.

    More Covid-theatre absurdity as far as I'm concerned.
    The elbow bump is a bit silly, and it feels a bit silly doing it, but for that same reason it's likely to retain its popularity for a while. It naturally creates an air of self-conscious clowning jocularity between the people doing it, and this can act as ice-breaker. Watch how Head Clown himself, Johnson, clearly loves doing it.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Late to this nonsense. If you want an eu team, they only get a limited number of athletes in each event. You can’t have it both ways.
    It's such an obvious point that it renders the initial claim an obvious troll, since I don't believe Stuart is silly enough to not realise the above. I think trolling needs to be believable to be really funny.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    kle4 said:

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Late to this nonsense. If you want an eu team, they only get a limited number of athletes in each event. You can’t have it both ways.
    It's such an obvious point that it renders the initial claim an obvious troll, since I don't believe Stuart is silly enough to not realise the above. I think trolling needs to be believable to be really funny.
    He's an obvious troll all right.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985
    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the T45s begin with a D. HMS Duncan is a storied ship name in the RN which goes back to the 18th C.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133

    "The cost of this donation has been funded through UK Overseas Development Assistance, and will come over and above the ODA spending target of 0.5% of GNI if needed."

    They could have kept the 0.7% target and spent 0.2% on delivering vaccines and it would have been the same, but I guess they wouldn't have been able to fight a skirmish in the culture war over it.
    The culture war is like a permanent revolution because no side can ever actually "win".
  • Options
    FossFoss Posts: 694
    edited July 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    The WW2 Flower Class Corvettes had some less than intimidating names.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,180
    edited July 2021
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the T45s begin with a D. HMS Duncan is a storied ship name in the RN which goes back to the 18th C.
    Is it perchance named after the same guy as the famous Soho gay pub?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,020
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the T45s begin with a D. HMS Duncan is a storied ship name in the RN which goes back to the 18th C.
    Named after the same cove as the Admiral Duncan pub of somewhat unhappy memory?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,020
    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the T45s begin with a D. HMS Duncan is a storied ship name in the RN which goes back to the 18th C.
    Is it perchance named after the same guy as the famous Soho gay pub?
    Ha, snap!
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,180

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the T45s begin with a D. HMS Duncan is a storied ship name in the RN which goes back to the 18th C.
    Named after the same cove as the Admiral Duncan pub of somewhat unhappy memory?
    Ha. Talk about a lightening one two!
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    There was a hunt (as in pack of foxhounds) class destroyer in ww2. Probably not going to be reprised
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,167

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    Ooops, there isn't an HMS Clyde, but there is an HMS Forth.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Royal_Navy_ships
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,180
    A one two three four even :smile:
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719
    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Late to this nonsense. If you want an eu team, they only get a limited number of athletes in each event. You can’t have it both ways.
    It's such an obvious point that it renders the initial claim an obvious troll, since I don't believe Stuart is silly enough to not realise the above. I think trolling needs to be believable to be really funny.
    He's an obvious troll all right.
    I'm far from opposed to trolling, it can be a fun time, but it's a fine line and no one wants to be the next Piers Morgan seeking to provoke outrage.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,324
    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    On the channel, two historical things I picked up on recently.

    Mine barriers laid across the Channel to block uboats.

    That all of the German undersea telegraph cables in the channel were cut within hours of the start of WW1. Exactly the same basic strategy as WW2. Make them use radio.
    https://warandsecurity.com/2014/08/05/britain-cuts-german-cable-communications-5-august-1914/
    One podcast I listened to put the allies winning World War I down to the cutting of the cables in the first days of the war. It meant the Germans had to use radio, and that allowed the Zimmerman telegram to be intercepted, and helped lead the US to war.

    In the Cold War the Americans and UK tried intercepting communications in Berlin using a tunnel. Interestingly the Russians knew about the tunnel immediately due to George Bake's treachery, but they did not stop using the communication cables because they wanted to protect Blake ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gold
    There's a similar story about the Enigma machine (or similar) and the Doodlebugs. They were 'misdirected' away from Central London.
    I don't think that involved the Enigma, but a much more open form of misdirection. From memory, when a bomb exploded, the radio and newspapers would report it as being further north and west. This made the Germans think they were overshooting and reduce the range, meaning they were more likely to land in the lesser-populated southeast than London.

    Someone can probably correct me. ;)
    It was a combination - the primary channel were the German agents in Britain. Who were all working for MI6.....

    What was interesting was that they didn't misreport hits - they actually reported a skewed sample of the actual hits.
    I've been watching the documentary on iPlayer about the turnaround in UK Olympic sport between Atlanta and London 2012. An amusing snippet is that when the IOC inspection team visited London early in the bidding process, it had been pre-arranged with TfL that traffic lights would switch to green as the IOC coach approached each junction.
    Brilliant planning by Mayor Boris. Shocking underhandedness from Ken.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Foss said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    The WW2 Flower Class Corvettes had some less than intimidating names.
    Were they real, or just in The Cruel Sea?
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    There was a hunt (as in pack of foxhounds) class destroyer in ww2. Probably not going to be reprised
    Yes, I was very suprrised to find there had been an "HMS Blean" - Blean is the name of the tiny village between Canterbury and Whitstable my folks live in, but it was in fact named after the Blean Hunt. It's a diving wreck off the coast of North Africa now IIUC.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,167
    edited July 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    There was a hunt (as in pack of foxhounds) class destroyer in ww2. Probably not going to be reprised
    The Hunt class ships look like the oldest ones still in service (besides Victory).

    Ledbury, Cattistock, etc.

    Minehunters appropriately enough. Clearly an irresistible association.
  • Options
    FossFoss Posts: 694
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foss said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    The WW2 Flower Class Corvettes had some less than intimidating names.
    Were they real, or just in The Cruel Sea?
    The ship in the Cruel Sea was fictitious but the Flower Class itself was real.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    I liked the time they gamed it with the entire RN and RAF going to the pub for the actual invasion. The Germans sustained 30% losses on the Channel crossing, all by themselves.........
    I've long been tempted to write a novel about an invasion (after I walked around a very atmospheric gun battery on the south coast and imagined a fleet of invasion ships coming across). Having read up on it, IMV to make it realistic a number of things would have to change.

    For one thing, the Germans would have had to wanted to invade England for several years; enough time to build a proper invasion fleet of landing craft, torpedo boats and other craft to harry the Royal Navy. Winning the Battle of Britain would also have been very important, and spies/saboteurs within the UK would have helped. There were others.

    I've got these changes written down somewhere, as the starting point for the writing. without them I couldn't really have the major battles I wanted on the mainland.
    There are alternative invasion routes you should consider for your novel. One is from Norway to Scotland (which was also considered in the other direction for D-Day). More realistic would be to use paratroopers for the initial invasion and have them capture and secure a British port, which could then be used to land German reinforcements of troops and armour. This was a genuine fear, and the Admiralty had plans to destroy ports by scuttling ships, dumping coal, and blowing up facilities, had the Nazis been about to invade.
    Yes, they might make be interesting outlines. In the plot outline I have, the Kriegsmarine defeat the Royal Navy in the Channel, and it is a battle for the Home Fleet to fight its way down from Scarpa Flow. And yes, I have German paratroopers playing a major part.

    I have written some; from memory, the first scene is of a nineteen year old boy watching the German invasion fleet come in as planes bomb the battery he has volunteered in. One strand of the book follows him during the retreat and then the fightback. As I'm a modern sort of person, another strand is from the viewpoint of a German sailor who gets stranded on the mainland. And that's the part I have a problem with, as I found it very hard to write from that viewpoint ...

    I am not a writer (tm). :)
    The ahistorical problem with that scenario is that in the summer of 1940 the Kriegsmarine had almost no operational ships so could never have defeated the Royal Navy. Perhaps if you posit a Pearl Harbor-like attack on the fleet at Scapa Flow. Though come to think of it, even that would not work because we'd have recalled the RN Mediterranean Fleet.
    That was one of the alterations at the start of the scenario: the Kriegsmarine had more surface ships and fewer submarines, and managed to lay minefields either side of their invasion route across the channel.

    It didn't happen, and probably wouldn't have happened that way, but it's the sort of thing you need to alter to make any German invasion even remotely feasible.

    One counterfactual I quite like is Hitler and Churchill meeting in the Munich hotel in 1932, and them hating each other so much that Hitler decides that the UK is a main threat to his project, and he builds up accordingly. Yes, I know Churchill wasn't PM at the time of Sealion, but I like the idea that he'd upset Hitler that much. ;)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    Jessica von Bredow-Werndl - must be the most 'definitely in the european aristocracy' sounding olympian ever.
    Bet her Dad has a massive castle somewhere in Bavaria.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,020
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foss said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    The WW2 Flower Class Corvettes had some less than intimidating names.
    Were they real, or just in The Cruel Sea?
    They were real alright, 100s of 'em. HMS Pansy (re-named to Heartsease) is the one everyone remembers. I always wonder if it was the staunch shipbuilders of Harland and Wolff that demanded the re-naming.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,324
    OT Sainsbury's have had a delivery since last week but there are still (or again) big gaps on the shelves. Customers all masked up, along with some staff, including all on tills and customer service.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,610
    Remember when inflight movies meant a screen at the front of the cabin and the speakers were in the armrest you had to listened to through tube earphones?

    https://twitter.com/Birdseed501/status/1420344089963233284?s=20
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,708
    Pulpstar said:

    Jessica von Bredow-Werndl - must be the most 'definitely in the european aristocracy' sounding olympian ever.
    Bet her Dad has a massive castle somewhere in Bavaria.

    Prince Hubertus of Hohenlohe-Langenburg deserves a mention here. Slalom skiier at the Olympics into his mid fifties and still competing in the world championships at the age of 61 this year. How? He founded the Mexican Ski Federation and is its only regular competitor!
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    Putting the buk of the pandemic behind us by October isn't a remotely complaisant or bold claim though, is it.

    Not even the biggest zero covid loon would suggest we have more cases and deaths in the future than in the past (at least on a reasonable timescale rather than 25 years worth of endemic low level activity).
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391

    OT Sainsbury's have had a delivery since last week but there are still (or again) big gaps on the shelves. Customers all masked up, along with some staff, including all on tills and customer service.

    Most stores have a delivery everyday. Even convenience are normally 5 days a week. Product turnover is much quicker than many seem to assume, and the recent gaps are as much about a heatwave sales spike as anything else - same thing happens every Summer, but this year people are projecting their politics on to it.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,328
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Based on the below I think we can expect England at least to break the seven day run of day on day falls today unfortunately -


    That's why I compare the "previous" days seven day average with "todays" seven day average. Individual days of data are not really suitable for such comparisons.
    Tell the media that. They’ll be clutching their pearls at 4.05 this PM.
    Professor Peston FRS, DipSHit

    The gift that keeps on giving.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    The planned T31 frigates (if the tories don't bin them) all appear to be named at random: Active, Bulldog, Campbeltown, Formidable and Venturer.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    edited July 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foss said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    The WW2 Flower Class Corvettes had some less than intimidating names.
    Were they real, or just in The Cruel Sea?
    Real: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower-class_corvette

    We nearly had an 'HMS Pansy'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Heartsease_(K15)

    edit; beaten to it ...
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    I don't know what I'm watching, it looks like there's a horse dancing on the TV. Very confusing.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,328

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    I liked the time they gamed it with the entire RN and RAF going to the pub for the actual invasion. The Germans sustained 30% losses on the Channel crossing, all by themselves.........
    I've long been tempted to write a novel about an invasion (after I walked around a very atmospheric gun battery on the south coast and imagined a fleet of invasion ships coming across). Having read up on it, IMV to make it realistic a number of things would have to change.

    For one thing, the Germans would have had to wanted to invade England for several years; enough time to build a proper invasion fleet of landing craft, torpedo boats and other craft to harry the Royal Navy. Winning the Battle of Britain would also have been very important, and spies/saboteurs within the UK would have helped. There were others.

    I've got these changes written down somewhere, as the starting point for the writing. without them I couldn't really have the major battles I wanted on the mainland.
    There are alternative invasion routes you should consider for your novel. One is from Norway to Scotland (which was also considered in the other direction for D-Day). More realistic would be to use paratroopers for the initial invasion and have them capture and secure a British port, which could then be used to land German reinforcements of troops and armour. This was a genuine fear, and the Admiralty had plans to destroy ports by scuttling ships, dumping coal, and blowing up facilities, had the Nazis been about to invade.
    Yes, they might make be interesting outlines. In the plot outline I have, the Kriegsmarine defeat the Royal Navy in the Channel, and it is a battle for the Home Fleet to fight its way down from Scarpa Flow. And yes, I have German paratroopers playing a major part.

    I have written some; from memory, the first scene is of a nineteen year old boy watching the German invasion fleet come in as planes bomb the battery he has volunteered in. One strand of the book follows him during the retreat and then the fightback. As I'm a modern sort of person, another strand is from the viewpoint of a German sailor who gets stranded on the mainland. And that's the part I have a problem with, as I found it very hard to write from that viewpoint ...

    I am not a writer (tm). :)
    The ahistorical problem with that scenario is that in the summer of 1940 the Kriegsmarine had almost no operational ships so could never have defeated the Royal Navy. Perhaps if you posit a Pearl Harbor-like attack on the fleet at Scapa Flow. Though come to think of it, even that would not work because we'd have recalled the RN Mediterranean Fleet.
    That was one of the alterations at the start of the scenario: the Kriegsmarine had more surface ships and fewer submarines, and managed to lay minefields either side of their invasion route across the channel.

    It didn't happen, and probably wouldn't have happened that way, but it's the sort of thing you need to alter to make any German invasion even remotely feasible.

    One counterfactual I quite like is Hitler and Churchill meeting in the Munich hotel in 1932, and them hating each other so much that Hitler decides that the UK is a main threat to his project, and he builds up accordingly. Yes, I know Churchill wasn't PM at the time of Sealion, but I like the idea that he'd upset Hitler that much. ;)
    A fun WI - Churchill goes with his original decision and turns up at Gallipoli on the first day.

    Given his ActionThisDay style, and the fact that at several point in the campaign, just pushing forward (especially in the early naval phase) would have worked....
  • Options
    DougSeal said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Stocky said:

    DougSeal said:

    Delighted to see the covid theatre of plastic screens and one way systems dismantled at Sainsbury’s last night.

    Yes me too.

    To the contrary - this is a message from our local Snowdome (indoor skiing):

    "Following the Government’s announcement regarding the easing of restrictions from Monday 19th July, Snozone will still request our members and guests to wear face coverings at all times within our venues.

    We further request that guests and members respectfully retain social distancing measures as before, using their good judgement as prescriptive internal signage will now be removed.

    Whilst we acknowledge the steps taken to re-establish previous practices, we also recognise that the pandemic is still very much with us and the health, safety and well-being of our team, members and guests is and will continue to be of paramount importance.

    We therefore kindly request that these measures are adhered to and that a respectful space is given to each other.

    We appreciate your support."
    Ah, baby steps and all that. Haven’t felt as chipper as I have this week for a while. If the sun stays out I’m going to the beach.
    It hasn't though. It's gone in.
    Broken sunshine here after some rain. Not as nice as last week but not bad either. Probably won’t risk a barbecue but I think it’s warm enough to go swimming.
    For the last five days, the forecast has been very wet: the reality has been pleasant and breezy with the odd shower. If it stays like this for my holiday in the west country next week I will be very happy.

    I'm actually looking forward to my holiday this year, rather than, as last year, dreading its last minute cancellation or its being rendered utterly joyless due to the sudden imposition of arbitrary restrictions. God last year was awful. My mental health is so much better now than it was in 2020.
    it's great to know for so many people the worst of this nightmare is (fingers crossed) coming to an end.
    How exactly does that tie-in with the ridiculous offensive message you posted back to me this morning? You chastised me, erroneously, for wanting more vaccinations in the UK at the expense of the rest of the world. The diatribe from you all about we shouldn't be so English-centric and how the rest of the world is suffering from lack of vaccination is entirely at variance with this post.

    Perhaps you were hacked. Or asleep when you wrote it.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,324

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    I liked the time they gamed it with the entire RN and RAF going to the pub for the actual invasion. The Germans sustained 30% losses on the Channel crossing, all by themselves.........
    I've long been tempted to write a novel about an invasion (after I walked around a very atmospheric gun battery on the south coast and imagined a fleet of invasion ships coming across). Having read up on it, IMV to make it realistic a number of things would have to change.

    For one thing, the Germans would have had to wanted to invade England for several years; enough time to build a proper invasion fleet of landing craft, torpedo boats and other craft to harry the Royal Navy. Winning the Battle of Britain would also have been very important, and spies/saboteurs within the UK would have helped. There were others.

    I've got these changes written down somewhere, as the starting point for the writing. without them I couldn't really have the major battles I wanted on the mainland.
    There are alternative invasion routes you should consider for your novel. One is from Norway to Scotland (which was also considered in the other direction for D-Day). More realistic would be to use paratroopers for the initial invasion and have them capture and secure a British port, which could then be used to land German reinforcements of troops and armour. This was a genuine fear, and the Admiralty had plans to destroy ports by scuttling ships, dumping coal, and blowing up facilities, had the Nazis been about to invade.
    Yes, they might make be interesting outlines. In the plot outline I have, the Kriegsmarine defeat the Royal Navy in the Channel, and it is a battle for the Home Fleet to fight its way down from Scarpa Flow. And yes, I have German paratroopers playing a major part.

    I have written some; from memory, the first scene is of a nineteen year old boy watching the German invasion fleet come in as planes bomb the battery he has volunteered in. One strand of the book follows him during the retreat and then the fightback. As I'm a modern sort of person, another strand is from the viewpoint of a German sailor who gets stranded on the mainland. And that's the part I have a problem with, as I found it very hard to write from that viewpoint ...

    I am not a writer (tm). :)
    The ahistorical problem with that scenario is that in the summer of 1940 the Kriegsmarine had almost no operational ships so could never have defeated the Royal Navy. Perhaps if you posit a Pearl Harbor-like attack on the fleet at Scapa Flow. Though come to think of it, even that would not work because we'd have recalled the RN Mediterranean Fleet.
    That was one of the alterations at the start of the scenario: the Kriegsmarine had more surface ships and fewer submarines, and managed to lay minefields either side of their invasion route across the channel.

    It didn't happen, and probably wouldn't have happened that way, but it's the sort of thing you need to alter to make any German invasion even remotely feasible.

    One counterfactual I quite like is Hitler and Churchill meeting in the Munich hotel in 1932, and them hating each other so much that Hitler decides that the UK is a main threat to his project, and he builds up accordingly. Yes, I know Churchill wasn't PM at the time of Sealion, but I like the idea that he'd upset Hitler that much. ;)
    Here is an excellent summary of the problems in a 15-minute Youtube video by an Austrian military historian. References are given if you want to follow anything up.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnPo7V03nbY
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,501

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Late to this nonsense. If you want an eu team, they only get a limited number of athletes in each event. You can’t have it both ways.
    The Pan Pacific Partnership is doing pretty well, too...
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,807
    The warship whose name most amused me was HMS Caligula. On it were painted the words “Oderint dum metuant”, “Let them hate me, so long as they fear me.”
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    Scott Beasley
    @SkyScottBeasley
    SyringeNEW: A large real world study (over one million people) of AstraZeneca & Pfizer vaccines looking at blood clotting disorders

    White heavy check mark Confirms safety profiles of both vaccines are similar

    Open book You can read the study (Lancet preprint) here: https://bit.ly/3zJnz5r
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    MaxPB said:

    I don't know what I'm watching, it looks like there's a horse dancing on the TV. Very confusing.

    I don't think it'll beat either of the germans gone so far.
  • Options
    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Late to this nonsense. If you want an eu team, they only get a limited number of athletes in each event. You can’t have it both ways.
    It's such an obvious point that it renders the initial claim an obvious troll, since I don't believe Stuart is silly enough to not realise the above. I think trolling needs to be believable to be really funny.
    He's an obvious troll all right.
    And calling a seasoned poster on here a troll just really shows how pathetic and pea-brained you are. Grow up.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't know what I'm watching, it looks like there's a horse dancing on the TV. Very confusing.

    I don't think it'll beat either of the germans gone so far.
    You were right.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133

    DougSeal said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Stocky said:

    DougSeal said:

    Delighted to see the covid theatre of plastic screens and one way systems dismantled at Sainsbury’s last night.

    Yes me too.

    To the contrary - this is a message from our local Snowdome (indoor skiing):

    "Following the Government’s announcement regarding the easing of restrictions from Monday 19th July, Snozone will still request our members and guests to wear face coverings at all times within our venues.

    We further request that guests and members respectfully retain social distancing measures as before, using their good judgement as prescriptive internal signage will now be removed.

    Whilst we acknowledge the steps taken to re-establish previous practices, we also recognise that the pandemic is still very much with us and the health, safety and well-being of our team, members and guests is and will continue to be of paramount importance.

    We therefore kindly request that these measures are adhered to and that a respectful space is given to each other.

    We appreciate your support."
    Ah, baby steps and all that. Haven’t felt as chipper as I have this week for a while. If the sun stays out I’m going to the beach.
    It hasn't though. It's gone in.
    Broken sunshine here after some rain. Not as nice as last week but not bad either. Probably won’t risk a barbecue but I think it’s warm enough to go swimming.
    For the last five days, the forecast has been very wet: the reality has been pleasant and breezy with the odd shower. If it stays like this for my holiday in the west country next week I will be very happy.

    I'm actually looking forward to my holiday this year, rather than, as last year, dreading its last minute cancellation or its being rendered utterly joyless due to the sudden imposition of arbitrary restrictions. God last year was awful. My mental health is so much better now than it was in 2020.
    it's great to know for so many people the worst of this nightmare is (fingers crossed) coming to an end.
    How exactly does that tie-in with the ridiculous offensive message you posted back to me this morning? You chastised me, erroneously, for wanting more vaccinations in the UK at the expense of the rest of the world. The diatribe from you all about we shouldn't be so English-centric and how the rest of the world is suffering from lack of vaccination is entirely at variance with this post.

    Perhaps you were hacked. Or asleep when you wrote it.
    The weather's cooler but still a bit warm for our snowflake contingent.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't know what I'm watching, it looks like there's a horse dancing on the TV. Very confusing.

    I don't think it'll beat either of the germans gone so far.
    Well the dressage is easier to score by eye than a close judo contest anyway.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,158
    Stocky said:

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A quarter of Britons haven't been hugged since the first lockdown last March and 44% haven't made a single new friend, survey finds

    25% of Brits haven't been hugged in a year, while 37% haven't in six months
    Meanwhile, nearly half haven't made a new friend in the last year
    Researchers say there is 'huge risk' community spirit will be lost"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9831577/A-QUARTER-Britons-havent-hugged-pandemic-began.html

    Not hugging people is one of the few upsides of the pandemic.
    Got my new car yesterday and me and the salesman instinctively shook hands. For both of us it was the first time in a year - we simultaneously apologised to one another!
    Is surface-to-surface transmission still a thing?

    This morning our carpet fitter insisted on the elbow bump thing while speaking directly to me from about a metre.

    More Covid-theatre absurdity as far as I'm concerned.
    Not really no. I have no issue with washing your hands fairly often, and definitely before food, but the idea that shaking hands is a big vector for Covid is false.
  • Options
    Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited July 2021
    Alas, my other friends, I fear we are by no means out of the woods on this.

    At the moment 45% of our population are not protected by double vaccines. Even when they have their second jabs we will still have 1/3rd of our population unvaccinated, thanks in part to our refusal to vaccinate under-18's and piss poor take up recently amongst the young.

    We are creating a potentially perfect petri dish for variants to spawn.

    When you factor in that 40% of those hospitalised with the Delta variant are double vaccinated the situation we are in is NOT rosy.

    The complacency is remarkable.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,167
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    The planned T31 frigates (if the tories don't bin them) all appear to be named at random: Active, Bulldog, Campbeltown, Formidable and Venturer.
    At least they haven't decided to name one Thatcher yet.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133

    DougSeal said:

    kle4 said:

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Late to this nonsense. If you want an eu team, they only get a limited number of athletes in each event. You can’t have it both ways.
    It's such an obvious point that it renders the initial claim an obvious troll, since I don't believe Stuart is silly enough to not realise the above. I think trolling needs to be believable to be really funny.
    He's an obvious troll all right.
    And calling a seasoned poster on here a troll just really shows how pathetic and pea-brained you are. Grow up.
    Whit knighting Mr Dickson? I'm sure he'll be delighted.
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    I wonder if confecting boring arguments is a good way for astroturf operatives to up their productivity if they're paid per post.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't know what I'm watching, it looks like there's a horse dancing on the TV. Very confusing.

    I don't think it'll beat either of the germans gone so far.
    I'm not really surprised that a German can dance better than a horse.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133

    Alas, my other friends, I fear we are by no means out of the woods on this.

    At the moment 45% of our population are not protected by double vaccines. Even when they have their second jabs we will still have 1/3rd of our population unvaccinated, thanks in part to our refusal to vaccinate under-18's and piss poor take up recently amongst the young.

    We are creating a potentially perfect petri dish for variants to spawn.

    When you factor in that 40% of those hospitalised with the Delta variant are double vaccinated the situation we are in is NOT rosy.

    The complacency is remarkable.

    Yeah - you said that this morning. And as I pointed out then you keep making stuff up. This claim you continuously repeat was contained in an open letter from 1,200 people (many of whom are not scientists, one of whom is stated to be a WHO adviser) not the WHO. The letter was organised by The Citizens, Carol Cadwalladr’s organisation.

    Again, I’m not a Tory, never voted for them, but their many faults can be exposed without manipulating the truth as you do on this board consistently.

    The "petri dish for variant" line is snappy, and maybe appropriate for some countries in the world, just not the UK.
  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,814

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Wait - are we saying that the EU should be treated as a single entity that's allowed to enter 27 separate teams into every event? Hardly a level playing field. Should the US be allowed to enter 50 teams (one for each state)?
    Or at least 27 teams to be fair.
    The UK as well?
    Should every country be allowed 27 entries?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,158
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A quarter of Britons haven't been hugged since the first lockdown last March and 44% haven't made a single new friend, survey finds

    25% of Brits haven't been hugged in a year, while 37% haven't in six months
    Meanwhile, nearly half haven't made a new friend in the last year
    Researchers say there is 'huge risk' community spirit will be lost"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9831577/A-QUARTER-Britons-havent-hugged-pandemic-began.html

    Not hugging people is one of the few upsides of the pandemic.
    Got my new car yesterday and me and the salesman instinctively shook hands. For both of us it was the first time in a year - we simultaneously apologised to one another!
    Is surface-to-surface transmission still a thing?

    This morning our carpet fitter insisted on the elbow bump thing while speaking directly to me from about a metre.

    More Covid-theatre absurdity as far as I'm concerned.
    The elbow bump is a bit silly, and it feels a bit silly doing it, but for that same reason it's likely to retain its popularity for a while. It naturally creates an air of self-conscious clowning jocularity between the people doing it, and this can act as ice-breaker. Watch how Head Clown himself, Johnson, clearly loves doing it.
    Cricket has embraced the fist bump way more, and I kind of like it. Not averse to hand shakes though.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Wait - are we saying that the EU should be treated as a single entity that's allowed to enter 27 separate teams into every event? Hardly a level playing field. Should the US be allowed to enter 50 teams (one for each state)?
    Or at least 27 teams to be fair.
    The UK as well?
    Should every country be allowed 27 entries?
    I think Dickson was trolling by this point in the discussion.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,610

    Alas, my other friends, I fear we are by no means out of the woods on this.

    At the moment 45% of our population are not protected by double vaccines. Even when they have their second jabs we will still have 1/3rd of our population unvaccinated, thanks in part to our refusal to vaccinate under-18's and piss poor take up recently amongst the young.

    We are creating a potentially perfect petri dish for variants to spawn.

    When you factor in that 40% of those hospitalised with the Delta variant are double vaccinated the situation we are in is NOT rosy.

    The complacency is remarkable.

    And yet…..

    In England, it is estimated that around 9 in 10 adults, or 91.9% of the adult population (95% credible interval: 90.5% to 93.0%) would have tested positive for antibodies against coronavirus (COVID-19) - SARS-CoV-2 - on a blood test in the week beginning 28 June 2021, suggesting they had the infection in the past or have been vaccinated.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/latest
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Alas, my other friends, I fear we are by no means out of the woods on this.

    At the moment 45% of our population are not protected by double vaccines. Even when they have their second jabs we will still have 1/3rd of our population unvaccinated, thanks in part to our refusal to vaccinate under-18's and piss poor take up recently amongst the young.

    We are creating a potentially perfect petri dish for variants to spawn.

    When you factor in that 40% of those hospitalised with the Delta variant are double vaccinated the situation we are in is NOT rosy.

    The complacency is remarkable.

    You keep repeating that falsehood which shows you have got no understanding of what environment variants are most likely to arise.

    It's veering into fake news bullshit at this point in time.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212
    Pulpstar said:

    Jessica von Bredow-Werndl - must be the most 'definitely in the european aristocracy' sounding olympian ever.
    Bet her Dad has a massive castle somewhere in Bavaria.

    Princess Anne?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,158

    OT Sainsbury's have had a delivery since last week but there are still (or again) big gaps on the shelves. Customers all masked up, along with some staff, including all on tills and customer service.

    Waitrose mostly still masked up and screens, but there ha# never been a one way route. Local butchers have stopped wearing masks themselves and I suspect are happy for customers to do so too. Certainly removed their Covid notices. Bakers are asking customers to wear masks, but some staff are not. So mixed bag, which may take a while to ease, probably linked to cases.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    Bronze for Pumpkin at his first olympics :D
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Pulpstar said:

    Bronze for Pumpkin at his first olympics :D

    Favourite for 2024?
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,167
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    The planned T31 frigates (if the tories don't bin them) all appear to be named at random: Active, Bulldog, Campbeltown, Formidable and Venturer.
    Wikipedia suggests that there is a theme for those names, however tenuous. I wonder how many hobnobs the naming committee had to go through to come up with that?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_31_frigate

    "The names were selected to represent key themes of the future plans of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines."
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Bronze for Pumpkin at his first olympics :D

    Favourite for 2024?
    Gio should improve for Paris, yes.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    +7,630 cases in Japan, which is close to their all time peak.
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    Carl Hester gets a silver in the mens comp, right...?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,475

    Scottish Government sparks online debate by referring to pregnant ‘people’ – not pregnant ‘women’

    What are they trying to distract attention from today?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,180

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A quarter of Britons haven't been hugged since the first lockdown last March and 44% haven't made a single new friend, survey finds

    25% of Brits haven't been hugged in a year, while 37% haven't in six months
    Meanwhile, nearly half haven't made a new friend in the last year
    Researchers say there is 'huge risk' community spirit will be lost"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9831577/A-QUARTER-Britons-havent-hugged-pandemic-began.html

    Not hugging people is one of the few upsides of the pandemic.
    Got my new car yesterday and me and the salesman instinctively shook hands. For both of us it was the first time in a year - we simultaneously apologised to one another!
    Is surface-to-surface transmission still a thing?

    This morning our carpet fitter insisted on the elbow bump thing while speaking directly to me from about a metre.

    More Covid-theatre absurdity as far as I'm concerned.
    The elbow bump is a bit silly, and it feels a bit silly doing it, but for that same reason it's likely to retain its popularity for a while. It naturally creates an air of self-conscious clowning jocularity between the people doing it, and this can act as ice-breaker. Watch how Head Clown himself, Johnson, clearly loves doing it.
    Cricket has embraced the fist bump way more, and I kind of like it. Not averse to hand shakes though.
    Yes, I don't mind the fist bump. Its advantage over the handshake is you don't have to worry either about your own or the other person's palm being clammy.

    But my favourite is the little bow with hands clasped in front of you. It sets a nice tone, so long as you don't go all performative with it.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Apologies if this has already been noted:

    NEW: A large real world study (over one million people) of AstraZeneca & Pfizer vaccines looking at blood clotting disorders

    Confirms safety profiles of both vaccines are similar


    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3886421

    Not yet peer-reviewed (Lancet preprint), but's it's a serious-looking study.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,188
    Scott Beasley
    @SkyScottBeasley
    SyringeNEW: A large real world study (over one million people) of AstraZeneca & Pfizer vaccines looking at blood clotting disorders

    Confirms safety profiles of both vaccines are similar

    You can read the study (Lancet preprint) here: https://bit.ly/3zJnz5r
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,475

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foss said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    The WW2 Flower Class Corvettes had some less than intimidating names.
    Were they real, or just in The Cruel Sea?
    Real: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower-class_corvette

    We nearly had an 'HMS Pansy'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Heartsease_(K15)

    edit; beaten to it ...
    There could be a Red Wall theme to it :smile:

    Previous HMS Active was associated with Burnley:

    Active was the adopted ship of the town of Burnley in Lancashire, North-West England. The ship and its crew were granted the freedom of the town in 1989. Part of the town's inner ring-road between Westgate and the traffic lights at the Church Street junction with Colne Road is called Active Way. One of Active's anchors is displayed at the Anchor Retail Park next to Active Way.


  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    The planned T31 frigates (if the tories don't bin them) all appear to be named at random: Active, Bulldog, Campbeltown, Formidable and Venturer.
    Wikipedia suggests that there is a theme for those names, however tenuous. I wonder how many hobnobs the naming committee had to go through to come up with that?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_31_frigate

    "The names were selected to represent key themes of the future plans of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines."
    What is the theme? That they are all recycled HMS names?

    Campbelltown of course was rammed into the dry dock gates during the St Nazaire raid, saving the Allies from having to face the German's battleships in the Atlantic in perhaps one of the most idiotically brave, and successful actions of the war.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,807

    Alas, my other friends, I fear we are by no means out of the woods on this.

    At the moment 45% of our population are not protected by double vaccines. Even when they have their second jabs we will still have 1/3rd of our population unvaccinated, thanks in part to our refusal to vaccinate under-18's and piss poor take up recently amongst the young.

    We are creating a potentially perfect petri dish for variants to spawn.

    When you factor in that 40% of those hospitalised with the Delta variant are double vaccinated the situation we are in is NOT rosy.

    The complacency is remarkable.

    Why do you keep repeating that rubbish?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,475

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    The planned T31 frigates (if the tories don't bin them) all appear to be named at random: Active, Bulldog, Campbeltown, Formidable and Venturer.
    At least they haven't decided to name one Thatcher yet.
    Thatcher would be an Icebreaker, and named "Iron Lady".
  • Options
    theProletheProle Posts: 948

    MattW said:

    My late Father in law as far back as the 60's maintained that harnessing the tides in the Pentland Firth would be the energy source of the future

    He used to recount that on many times when returning to his home port of Lossiemouth from fishing in the west of Scotland he would experience times when his fishing boat would actually be going astern even with full engines due to the strength of the tides
    My granddad had a similar story. He was on an old merchantman in a convoy going through the English Channel during the war. There was a storm, and after a day they were further back than they had been before, and they were alone as the convoy had steamed well ahead. I don't know much more about the story, but as he was a gunner in DEMS it must have meant a long shift at the guns - unless the weather was so bad German planes couldn't fly and the submarines couldn't easily attack.

    I wish I'd talked more about it with him whilst he was alive.
    For Operation Sealion, many of the barges the Germans were planning to use had a lower speed than the tide running in the Channel. So the invasion fleet would have spent half a day being pushed around by the tide. With a freeboard measured in inches.....
    Yes, it wasn't the best-planned operation...

    Talking about low freeboard, have you ever seen videos of narrowboats crossing the Wash?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdYmqKjdEns
    On the channel, two historical things I picked up on recently.

    Mine barriers laid across the Channel to block uboats.

    That all of the German undersea telegraph cables in the channel were cut within hours of the start of WW1. Exactly the same basic strategy as WW2. Make them use radio.
    https://warandsecurity.com/2014/08/05/britain-cuts-german-cable-communications-5-august-1914/
    One podcast I listened to put the allies winning World War I down to the cutting of the cables in the first days of the war. It meant the Germans had to use radio, and that allowed the Zimmerman telegram to be intercepted, and helped lead the US to war.

    In the Cold War the Americans and UK tried intercepting communications in Berlin using a tunnel. Interestingly the Russians knew about the tunnel immediately due to George Bake's treachery, but they did not stop using the communication cables because they wanted to protect Blake ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gold
    There's a similar story about the Enigma machine (or similar) and the Doodlebugs. They were 'misdirected' away from Central London.
    I don't think that involved the Enigma, but a much more open form of misdirection. From memory, when a bomb exploded, the radio and newspapers would report it as being further north and west. This made the Germans think they were overshooting and reduce the range, meaning they were more likely to land in the lesser-populated southeast than London.

    Someone can probably correct me. ;)
    It was a combination - the primary channel were the German agents in Britain. Who were all working for MI6.....

    What was interesting was that they didn't misreport hits - they actually reported a skewed sample of the actual hits.
    IIRC what they did was particularly subtle - they provided accurately the approximate times and locations of impact - but for different V1s. They matched the times of impact for the ones which had fallen short to the locations of the ones which had gone long.

    Both of these peices of information were relatively easy for the Germans to verify (they knew the launch times and approximate flight time and could take ariel photos of the bomb sites), which added to their agent's veracity.

    The combined effect was to make it look if the bombs which had been set to run the shortest had tended to go long - and the Germans had no way to discover this was in fact entirely untrue.

    If one is interested in both how we did intelligence and attempted countermeasures against the Germans, particularly on new technology, R V Jones "Most Secret War" is worth a read (he was one of the scientists in the "scientific intelligence" unit involved with a lot of this stuff).
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914

    Apologies if this has already been noted:

    NEW: A large real world study (over one million people) of AstraZeneca & Pfizer vaccines looking at blood clotting disorders

    Confirms safety profiles of both vaccines are similar


    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3886421

    Not yet peer-reviewed (Lancet preprint), but's it's a serious-looking study.

    Dr John Campbell reckons it's related to accidentally jabbing a vein rather than a muscle (Which could be solved by aspiration)
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,328

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Speaking of maritime symbols of doubtful purpose, probably £500m in the unlikely event of it ever coming to fruition? And I thought it was not going to be a 'royal' yacht, or are they going to persist with that terminology despite Brenda's disapproval?


    It was only £100m when Johnson started wanking off over it.

    Meanwhile the RN are down to one functional air warfare destroyer (Defender) and that's in the South China Sea while Diamond is broken in (ironically) Taranto, Daring and Duncan are in deep maintenance, Dauntless is getting a power system upgrade so they can plug the kettle in when it's more than 25 deg C and Dragon is in pre-deployment maintenance.

    That's tory defence priorities for you.
    All our ships start with a D then? I didn't realize that. Defender, Diamond, Daring, Dauntless, Dragon and ... fair enough ... Duncan.
    All the different classes of ship have some sort of naming theme. The destroyers all start with a "D", the Trident-armed subs all start with a "V", a class of smallish patrol ships are all named after rivers (Mersey, Clyde, etc).
    The planned T31 frigates (if the tories don't bin them) all appear to be named at random: Active, Bulldog, Campbeltown, Formidable and Venturer.
    Wikipedia suggests that there is a theme for those names, however tenuous. I wonder how many hobnobs the naming committee had to go through to come up with that?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_31_frigate

    "The names were selected to represent key themes of the future plans of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines."
    HMS Campbeltown suggests that ramming France is a plan....
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Wait - are we saying that the EU should be treated as a single entity that's allowed to enter 27 separate teams into every event? Hardly a level playing field. Should the US be allowed to enter 50 teams (one for each state)?
    Or at least 27 teams to be fair.
    The UK as well?
    Should every country be allowed 27 entries?
    Wait till you see how many teams 'Oxford' and 'Cambridge' are allowed to enter into University Challenge!
    As an Oxford graduate myself this is a fair point.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189

    So pleased to see Primož Roglič winning gold in the ITT. That solidifies the European Union lead in the medal tallies.

    Sorry? The highest EU team is France, who are 8th.
    Huh? The EU has won 63 medals so far, including 16 golds, easily beating China, Japan, England etc.
    Wait - are we saying that the EU should be treated as a single entity that's allowed to enter 27 separate teams into every event? Hardly a level playing field. Should the US be allowed to enter 50 teams (one for each state)?
    Or at least 27 teams to be fair.
    The UK as well?
    Should every country be allowed 27 entries?
    Wait till you see how many teams 'Oxford' and 'Cambridge' are allowed to enter into University Challenge!
    I reckon Oxford or Cambridge would win Uni Challenge every year if they entered single teams.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Apologies if this has already been noted:

    NEW: A large real world study (over one million people) of AstraZeneca & Pfizer vaccines looking at blood clotting disorders

    Confirms safety profiles of both vaccines are similar


    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3886421

    Not yet peer-reviewed (Lancet preprint), but's it's a serious-looking study.

    How many 100,000s of extra people are going to be dead because of fake news around AZN vaccine?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,610
    Would the following individuals have performed better, worse, or about the same as Boris Johnson if they had been Prime Minister during the pandemic?

    Jeremy Corbyn: 48% worse
    Rishi Sunak: 39% about the same
    Theresa May: 36% worse
    Tony Blair: 33% worse




    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1420353762733043714?s=20
This discussion has been closed.