Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
The first vaccination rate in the UK is about 0.4% of adult population per day, with the number as of yesterday at 84% of adults. Wales strongly suggests that it will top out at about 89% of adults.
That means in about 12-14 days*, the first vaccinations will be over - in terms of people actually trying to get vaccinated.
The supply pipeline for vaccines is months long and you can't just get an extra delivery.
So no, he can't change anything at this point.
*Yes - that assumes it doesn't tail off.
Its' good but not good enough. It leaves several million people unvaccinated and even more with only partial protection. We need to find ways to incentivise those we have missed, go looking for them and persuade. There is a lot to do here and it is very important to our protection from not only delta but the next variant off the block (which must surely be overdue).
Why?
It seems to me we have a better takeup than any other nation on the planet (considering Canada have authorised 12+ and we haven't).
There will be a minority of refuseniks. That is their right. They're wrong, but they're entitled to be wrong and to live with their consequences.
I did the arithmetic on this about a week ago and can't be bothered to repeat the operation but in round terms there were about 10m awaiting a first dose and just over 20m awaiting a second. At 150k a day for first doses there is in fact a long way to go yet and even longer for second doses.
It is also obvious we are getting to some of the harder to reach sections of society although my own family shows that is still an over simplification. We will come up against resistance. As you say, that is their right but we need to think how we incentivise those who have proven to be reluctant. It is why I backed covid passports, for example.
If we had kept up with the April/early May rate I do not think that the delay on 21st June would have been necessary but we didn't. We have slowed further and that makes the decision in July more marginal than it should have been. I remain convinced we need to go for the removal of regulation as soon as possible but the quid pro quo is surely rapid vaccination.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
For some vaccine-sceptics I've talked to, and read about, the risk from the vaccine cannot in their view be quantified at this time as it is such a new vaccine. That seems to be the main problem in any pro and con appraisal.
An interesting header. So the big Johnson divide is educational not Brexit. The more book learning you have the more likely you are to see through him. I find this quite heartening because it means an anti-Johnson viewpoint is rather like a detached house with a patio and a basement wine collection - a sign of having arrived. As such, given the aspirational nature of the British people, it will be much sought after, and with it also being (unlike high end property and vintage merlot) attainable completely free of charge, simply requiring a quick and painless mental upgrade, the numbers are surely set to grow. I've just topped up on Starmer Next PM at 9.
Back him to go by Aug as a Hedge?
I do have a bit of a convoluted composite going on - including the GE bet with you - but, no, I won't be adding that one in. The party will be deciding next Spring/Summer whether Starmer will lead into the election. It would take something seismic to bring that forward to this year. Losing Batley will not imo be such an event.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
I would be interested to know other 1/1,000 risks.
Is it a dying while trying to put your trousers on kind of risk or a jump in the car and drive 10 miles up the A1 risk?
So are Nissan and Boris making the joint annoucement about creating thousands of jobs on Thursday morning then? Might help fill the news void on the day of the by-election and convert a few waverers.
Of course many of us will still be discussing England's acrimonious exit from Euro 2020.
An enlarged factory in Sunderland won't win any votes 100+ miles area in Batley.
If anything it will emphasis how much Batley is a have not rather than a have place.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
For some vaccine-sceptics I've talked to, and read about, the risk from the vaccine cannot in their view be quantified at this time as it is such a new vaccine. That seems to be the main problem in any pro and con appraisal.
Balanced against the known effects of SARS-Cov-2 2 years down the line............
the CCTV cameras in the office were made by Hikvision, a Chinese firm banned in the US over concerns that it could be used by Beijing as a spying tool.
WTF are the government allowing Chinese CCTV cameras anywhere near their offices? The report says the DoH is leased from a private company, but still, that should be an absolute no no.
Why? Two reasons 1 Price. 2 Service. These cameras are brilliant! They upload all their images automatically to a secure server in Wuhan, guaranteed to never lose an important recording!
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
The first vaccination rate in the UK is about 0.4% of adult population per day, with the number as of yesterday at 84% of adults. Wales strongly suggests that it will top out at about 89% of adults.
That means in about 12-14 days*, the first vaccinations will be over - in terms of people actually trying to get vaccinated.
The supply pipeline for vaccines is months long and you can't just get an extra delivery.
So no, he can't change anything at this point.
*Yes - that assumes it doesn't tail off.
Its' good but not good enough. It leaves several million people unvaccinated and even more with only partial protection. We need to find ways to incentivise those we have missed, go looking for them and persuade. There is a lot to do here and it is very important to our protection from not only delta but the next variant off the block (which must surely be overdue).
You do know that there are hundreds of variants don't you? Only a few have characteristics that make a material difference to its ability to make people ill. And it cannot change too much it loses the ability to say bind to the ACE-2 receptors. We need to be careful of variants, but there is little prospect of a sudden emergence of a variant which completely evades the current vaccines.
Yes I do know. The variants of concern as they call them, which have basically been the SA one, Kent and now Delta, have each increased the infectivity of the virus and its propensity to spread. The evolutionary advantage of this is obvious and there is a recognised tendency for viruses to develop in this way, also becoming more benign because this keeps their host alive for longer allowing more opportunities for transmission. Going by the past pattern it seems inevitable that an even more infectious variant than delta will be along very shortly.
The evidence to date is that none of these variants defeat the vaccine but in countries like ours where the majority of potential hosts are vaccinated the ability to do so would be a huge evolutionary advantage and any such variant would become dominant very quickly. We need to stay alert to this but the priority is to protect as many people as possible as quickly as possible.
@ DavidL. Glad to see you back and hope you are doing well after your recent scare.
Taking it easy at home thanks. Going to be somewhat under powered for a while yet but the projection is positive.
the CCTV cameras in the office were made by Hikvision, a Chinese firm banned in the US over concerns that it could be used by Beijing as a spying tool.
WTF are the government allowing Chinese CCTV cameras anywhere near their offices? The report says the DoH is leased from a private company, but still, that should be an absolute no no.
Why? Two reasons 1 Price. 2 Service. These cameras are brilliant! They upload all their images automatically to a secure server in Wuhan, guaranteed to never lose an important recording!
The Chinese must piss themselves how idiotic the West are.
Sir Keir’s fan club are trying to defend the leaflet by saying the photo was doctored… here’s the original. How is it any better?
No wonder they blacked out the text. The leaflet is about Islamophobia, and shows Boris Johnson meeting a notorious Islamophobe while pointing out the Tories' long history of Islaphobia, including Johnson's own comments. I think the leaflet is completely fine.
Can't see what difference it makes. Either sectarian campaigns are ok or they are not.
This is a landmark day - the day the sickeningly pious centrists admitted they were no different to Jezza, Farage, Boris, Nick Griffin and all the others they pretended to be outraged by.
I cant work out if I'm one of the sickeningly pious centrist there or not.
First avoidance of doubt I dont think the leaflet is ok even with the full context, since its divisive motivation on sectarian grounds seems clear.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
What I am concerned about is that young people are yet again, for the umpteenth time, being sacrificed by a bunch of sixty plus fanatics for whom no measure will ever be enough.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
What are you thinking "vaccination" means? What's your mental image there?
In Batley and Spen, Labour will put you on an attack leaflet if you pose alongside Modi. In Brent North...
Someone defends on the basis that there was more on the leaflet than the photo of Modi, but that's kind of the point - it was a list of bad things beneath a photo of Boris and Modi, next to a warning.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
I would be interested to know other 1/1,000 risks.
Is it a dying while trying to put your trousers on kind of risk or a jump in the car and drive 10 miles up the A1 risk?
I like the drive your car 10 miles comparison with COVID. In both cases, the bulk of the safety measures are in your hands and so you control most of the risks. But in both cases, you cannot control the risks from other idiots' behaviour, nor the unforeseen risks from the equipment (car/vaccine).
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
What I am concerned about is that young people are yet again, for the umpteenth time, being sacrificed by a bunch of sixty plus fanatics for whom no measure will ever be enough.
You could make exactly the same argument about being indifferent to young people catching a virus with unknown long-term effects and a non-zero risk of serious short-term illness.
An interesting header. So the big Johnson divide is educational not Brexit. The more book learning you have the more likely you are to see through him. I find this quite heartening because it means an anti-Johnson viewpoint is rather like a detached house with a patio and a basement wine collection - a sign of having arrived. As such, given the aspirational nature of the British people, it will be much sought after, and with it also being (unlike high end property and vintage merlot) attainable completely free of charge, simply requiring a quick and painless mental upgrade, the numbers are surely set to grow. I've just topped up on Starmer Next PM at 9.
Back him to go by Aug as a Hedge?
I do have a bit of a convoluted composite going on - including the GE bet with you - but, no, I won't be adding that one in. The party will be deciding next Spring/Summer whether Starmer will lead into the election. It would take something seismic to bring that forward to this year. Losing Batley will not imo be such an event.
I've been laying Starmer Exit date 2021 with BF for a while at average price of 4.4
What price should Starmer be to leave in 2021?
Remember that LP leader elections take at least three months to finalise and the BF market settles on this basis: "We will settle this market on the date the Labour Party officially announce their new Permanent Party Leader after Keir Starmer. Temporary/interim leaders do not count. If a temporary/interim leader is appointed we will wait until the date of the announcement of the Permanent Leader before settling. "
An interesting header. So the big Johnson divide is educational not Brexit. The more book learning you have the more likely you are to see through him. I find this quite heartening because it means an anti-Johnson viewpoint is rather like a detached house with a patio and a basement wine collection - a sign of having arrived. As such, given the aspirational nature of the British people, it will be much sought after, and with it also being (unlike high end property and vintage merlot) attainable completely free of charge, simply requiring a quick and painless mental upgrade, the numbers are surely set to grow. I've just topped up on Starmer Next PM at 9.
Back him to go by Aug as a Hedge?
I do have a bit of a convoluted composite going on - including the GE bet with you - but, no, I won't be adding that one in. The party will be deciding next Spring/Summer whether Starmer will lead into the election. It would take something seismic to bring that forward to this year. Losing Batley will not imo be such an event.
Maybe meeting Modi?
He is probably more likely not to make the GE, than win it, now though
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
For some vaccine-sceptics I've talked to, and read about, the risk from the vaccine cannot in their view be quantified at this time as it is such a new vaccine. That seems to be the main problem in any pro and con appraisal.
Balanced against the known effects of SARS-Cov-2 2 years down the line............
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Death is an incredibly low bar.
There was a chap about 2000 years ago who allegedly hurdled it but the documentation is sketchy.
"The farce up in Batley & Spen continues. Now, Labour’s former Mayor of Kirklees, councillor Gwen Lowe, has been accused along with her husband of tearing down George Galloway posters in the constituency – to which the pair claim was a retaliatory measure against the Galloway team for removing posters of Kim Leadbeater. "
"In the video above, the pair can be seen bellowing at the Galloway supporter who caught them in the act, with Lowe restraining her furious husband before both stormed down the street. A source tells Guido the incident has now been reported to the police…"
Bit of passion and a determination to stick it to Gruesome Gurning George. It's great to see. Just hope it pays off and he flops.
So basically the richer / smarter you are the less favourably you consider the liar in chief.
Or, to put it another way, the better you did under the status quo the more likely you are to defend it. Which leaves the government is a somewhat ironic position for a Conservative party.
It also puts me in an interesting philosophical position. I'm somewhere in ABC1 (hard to work out exactly where - mid/senior academic) but I think C2DE have had a pretty raw deal over the past 20-30 years (and I have C2/D - when they were working - parents). So, my postion is that politicians should again care about C2DE. C2DE seem to think, generally, that this conservative government is good of them - or at least better than the alternative. Do I take a paternalistic approach and vote against the government anyway as I don't believe they'll really deliver for C2DE (therefore assuming that "I know best" what is best for C2DE) or do I accept that they know what they're on about? Or do I pull up the drawbridge and vote for whoever is best for me personally, somewhere in ABC1?
(I've probably voted LD, which is very ABC1, more often than for other parties over the past twenty years, although not recently, so I must concede I don't have much track record voting for the C2DE groups favoured parties).
It's your vote and I think you should unashamedly cast it on the basis of you know best.
Absolutely. No need to defer your own judgement to others even if sympathetic to their view. Like those who wanted to wait to see which way DUP would jump on May deal revisions before deciding themselves.
As it happened, Andrew and Olivia, an NHS clinical psychologist, were making a “farewell walk” up Snowdon to mark the end of their relationship.....then they came back and found they had been done for failing to pay and display. Kick in the gut.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
What are you thinking "vaccination" means? What's your mental image there?
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
What I am concerned about is that young people are yet again, for the umpteenth time, being sacrificed by a bunch of sixty plus fanatics for whom no measure will ever be enough.
You could make exactly the same argument about being indifferent to young people catching a virus with unknown long-term effects and a non-zero risk of serious short-term illness.
No you really couldn't. Not now. Not after 18 months of living with this disease and knowing much more about it
Not next to the privations that young people wholesale have suffered at the hands of boomers. To save their own necks.
Where are we with vaccinating 12-18 year olds? Is it likely to start anytime soon? Weeks, months?
Hopefully, AIUI both the 16&17 and 12-15 age groups have been authorised, and in a few cases, (presumably Pre existing heath conditions) they have been given, (at least to the 16 & 17 year olds)
But, I think the disition to as to whether to use them on mass, has not yet been taken, even for the 16 & 17 year olds.
I would assume that people in the health department, possibly including Hancock, where hopping that R would be so low by now, that they would not have to make that dicition, i.e. it would be unassay.
The problem being, both risks as very very small, COVID to children and Vaccine in children, and its not clear that the former is bigger than the latter, therefore might be the cases that by vaccinating you put that individual at a bigger risk that just letting them catch COVID. but by doing that you might stop the population as a whole form reaching 'herd immunity' but not defiantly, perhaps when we have given every adult who wants one a jab and a second one, and 2 weeks, that will be enough.
Timing, I recon we have 8 days left maybe less until the number of people coming forward for a first jab drops to a trickle, so need to chose soon, but will be 2 months ish until we have given ever second jab, plus 2 weeks, so that's almost back to school time.
What to do? I think we can let 16 and 17 year olds decide for themselves, many may what to take it, ether to show they 'believe in science', or so they feel safer visiting granny, or so they are fully vacated, ready for the day they tern 18 and go night clubbing, or whatever. \perhaps only half or less will, but that in and off itself will give us better data on how it affects that age group.
I think we should let 16 & 17 start booking slots now/ASAP. Hopefully, R goes below 1 before we run out of 16&17 year olds, but if not, (and the data form the 16&17 is OK) we open it to younger people, whose parents wish them to have it. but recognise it gets more complex the younger you go.
"It is a tinder box about to explode,” a Labour activist campaigning in Batley & Spen tells The Times. For the second time in as many months, the party is battling a Tory challenge as it tries to hold on to its seat at a by-election.Many in Labour have written off their chances of holding the seat.
“The Muslim vote has collapsed,” one activist who has campaigned locally said. “In Spen, the way the pledges are coming back is similar to Hartlepool. Currently we’re losing it by about 6,000 to 7,000 and we could be propelled into third place.""
I see the Liar is already lying about sacking Hancock according to Mail. Total and utter fabrication by Johnson. He backed him. He said the matter was closed.
In fairness to Johnson "I sacked Hancock" were not words he uttered.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
I would be interested to know other 1/1,000 risks.
Is it a dying while trying to put your trousers on kind of risk or a jump in the car and drive 10 miles up the A1 risk?
I like the drive your car 10 miles comparison with COVID. In both cases, the bulk of the safety measures are in your hands and so you control most of the risks. But in both cases, you cannot control the risks from other idiots' behaviour, nor the unforeseen risks from the equipment (car/vaccine).
Yep. That is fair. You are at the mercy of bad drivers (of which you are not one, obvs) or over-effusive huggers (or snoggers, seeing as we're talking about teenagers).
Still interested to know the other 1/1,000 risks, that said.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
What are you thinking "vaccination" means? What's your mental image there?
So are Nissan and Boris making the joint annoucement about creating thousands of jobs on Thursday morning then? Might help fill the news void on the day of the by-election and convert a few waverers.
Of course many of us will still be discussing England's acrimonious exit from Euro 2020.
An enlarged factory in Sunderland won't win any votes 100+ miles area in Batley.
If anything it will emphasis how much Batley is a have not rather than a have place.
And Sunderland is a have place !
It currently has 3 Labour MPs with smallish shrinkable majorities.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
I would be interested to know other 1/1,000 risks.
Is it a dying while trying to put your trousers on kind of risk or a jump in the car and drive 10 miles up the A1 risk?
I like the drive your car 10 miles comparison with COVID. In both cases, the bulk of the safety measures are in your hands and so you control most of the risks. But in both cases, you cannot control the risks from other idiots' behaviour, nor the unforeseen risks from the equipment (car/vaccine).
Yep. That is fair. You are at the mercy of bad drivers (of which you are not one, obvs) or over-effusive huggers (or snoggers, seeing as we're talking about teenagers).
Still interested to know the other 1/1,000 risks, that said.
But in both cases, one is oneself a risk to others as well ...
the CCTV cameras in the office were made by Hikvision, a Chinese firm banned in the US over concerns that it could be used by Beijing as a spying tool.
WTF are the government allowing Chinese CCTV cameras anywhere near their offices? The report says the DoH is leased from a private company, but still, that should be an absolute no no.
Why? Two reasons 1 Price. 2 Service. These cameras are brilliant! They upload all their images automatically to a secure server in Wuhan, guaranteed to never lose an important recording!
The Chinese must piss themselves how idiotic the West are.
When an engineering club I was a member of bought their cheap Chinese laser cutter, they discovered that the control software tried to upload any design to a particular IP address and if blocked, it wouldn't work.
Someone was busy going through the binary to remove the code when I (and some others) suggested a better way.....
"It is a tinder box about to explode,” a Labour activist campaigning in Batley & Spen tells The Times. For the second time in as many months, the party is battling a Tory challenge as it tries to hold on to its seat at a by-election.Many in Labour have written off their chances of holding the seat.
“The Muslim vote has collapsed,” one activist who has campaigned locally said. “In Spen, the way the pledges are coming back is similar to Hartlepool. Currently we’re losing it by about 6,000 to 7,000 and we could be propelled into third place.""
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
What are you thinking "vaccination" means? What's your mental image there?
People being given lethal injections en masse.
Vaccinations for diseases that affect children are essential. We all know what they are and why they should be taken.
Vaccinations for diseases that don't affect children....??? What's that all about?
An interesting header. So the big Johnson divide is educational not Brexit. The more book learning you have the more likely you are to see through him. I find this quite heartening because it means an anti-Johnson viewpoint is rather like a detached house with a patio and a basement wine collection - a sign of having arrived. As such, given the aspirational nature of the British people, it will be much sought after, and with it also being (unlike high end property and vintage merlot) attainable completely free of charge, simply requiring a quick and painless mental upgrade, the numbers are surely set to grow. I've just topped up on Starmer Next PM at 9.
Back him to go by Aug as a Hedge?
I do have a bit of a convoluted composite going on - including the GE bet with you - but, no, I won't be adding that one in. The party will be deciding next Spring/Summer whether Starmer will lead into the election. It would take something seismic to bring that forward to this year. Losing Batley will not imo be such an event.
Maybe meeting Modi?
He is probably more likely not to make the GE, than win it, now though
50% to lead into the GE. And if he does, 33% to emerge as PM. So our 3/1 bet should at this point be 5/1. You're up.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
You find it extraordinary that anybody could consider ethics in a way that isn't entirely selfish.
The selfishness has come entirely from the boomer generation, who have destroyed the education, mental health and life chances of young people to save themselves. At every single turn.
Well yes. But I don't think that equates to 'don't vaccinate children'. If the information we have shows that the risks of giving children the vaccine are less than letting them catch covid, to me, that equates to give them the vaccine. Because the odds of them not getting covid seem small. Now its quite difficult to evaluate the risks of children catching covid. They almost certainly won't die. But there is a non-negligible chance that they might get quite ill. In a life-changing way? I'm not sure. But then again, the risks from the vaccine also seem tiny.
If my daughters had the chance to get vaccinated, I'd be very keen for them to be. My understanding is that though covid almost certainly won't kill them, it might make them seriously ill. Particularly the asthmatic one. Possibly in a way which does them permanent harm. Whereas the risk from the vaccine seems negligible.
It seems inevitable that they will be exposed to covid - particularly if we don't vaccinate children. The only calculation is what risk to them this is (in terms of more complex than just death or no death).
And I've been with you all the way on wanting to open up. I don't think lockdown works very well, and even if it did it would be a disproportionate reaction to the problem. But I don't see why thinking that should mean I don't want everyone who would benefit from it to be vaccinated.
Zero deaths recorded over the weekend despite this although no doubt there will be the odd laggard recorded. Even allowing for lags the link is broken. That is the key message (other than get your vaccines while their hot, 2 for absolutely nothing).
The small print is that the Registers are normally closed over the weekend, so wouldn't expect any deaths recorded, but the message is right. The vaccines work. Get yours in.
Absolutely. My 23 year old gets her first vaccine this afternoon at 4. My 17 year old has an appointment for his first in 2 weeks time. Daughter number 1 and us oldies are already double vaxxed.
I really want my son to have had both jabs before he goes away for University in October. The incredible slow down in the rate of vaccination has been making me anxious about this (since he would want to have had it no later than mid September) but I hope it will still be possible.
In about 2 weeks, the first vaccinations will be down to pretty much nothing - lack of demand. Your son will be able to get his second dose as early as he wants, I reckon.
The original Pfizer trial was with a three week gap, which is what USA, UAE and Israel have stuck with. That could quickly become the norm for the youngsters, as the queue disappears.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
What are you thinking "vaccination" means? What's your mental image there?
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
The first vaccination rate in the UK is about 0.4% of adult population per day, with the number as of yesterday at 84% of adults. Wales strongly suggests that it will top out at about 89% of adults.
That means in about 12-14 days*, the first vaccinations will be over - in terms of people actually trying to get vaccinated.
The supply pipeline for vaccines is months long and you can't just get an extra delivery.
So no, he can't change anything at this point.
*Yes - that assumes it doesn't tail off.
Its' good but not good enough. It leaves several million people unvaccinated and even more with only partial protection. We need to find ways to incentivise those we have missed, go looking for them and persuade. There is a lot to do here and it is very important to our protection from not only delta but the next variant off the block (which must surely be overdue).
If we get take-up to 90% of the population, that is very good, by vaccination standards.
We are giving out the vaccine in just about every way that can be thought of, for free.
The simple truth is that there are a chunk of people who won't take it. The government has tried with the recalcitrant sections of the population and is still trying. But, ultimately, we live in a world where people feel entitled to their own truth.
From the anti-vax garbage I have seen, much of it is beyond reason.
I am certainly not wired into Bill Gates skynet after having my Moderna jabs...beep boop beep booppppppp.
I have already sent an angry e-mail to Microsoft - I didn't turn into the Incredible Hulk after mine. Which means, back to the gym. Sigh. Defective chip, I suppose.
After my second dose, I have had irresistible urges to smell lampposts and suspicious looking puddles on the pavement. I guess I got the tracking chip ...
Where are we with vaccinating 12-18 year olds? Is it likely to start anytime soon? Weeks, months?
Hopefully, AIUI both the 16&17 and 12-15 age groups have been authorised, and in a few cases, (presumably Pre existing heath conditions) they have been given, (at least to the 16 & 17 year olds)
But, I think the disition to as to whether to use them on mass, has not yet been taken, even for the 16 & 17 year olds.
I would assume that people in the health department, possibly including Hancock, where hopping that R would be so low by now, that they would not have to make that dicition, i.e. it would be unassay.
The problem being, both risks as very very small, COVID to children and Vaccine in children, and its not clear that the former is bigger than the latter, therefore might be the cases that by vaccinating you put that individual at a bigger risk that just letting them catch COVID. but by doing that you might stop the population as a whole form reaching 'herd immunity' but not defiantly, perhaps when we have given every adult who wants one a jab and a second one, and 2 weeks, that will be enough.
Timing, I recon we have 8 days left maybe less until the number of people coming forward for a first jab drops to a trickle, so need to chose soon, but will be 2 months ish until we have given ever second jab, plus 2 weeks, so that's almost back to school time.
What to do? I think we can let 16 and 17 year olds decide for themselves, many may what to take it, ether to show they 'believe in science', or so they feel safer visiting granny, or so they are fully vacated, ready for the day they tern 18 and go night clubbing, or whatever. \perhaps only half or less will, but that in and off itself will give us better data on how it affects that age group.
I think we should let 16 & 17 start booking slots now/ASAP. Hopefully, R goes below 1 before we run out of 16&17 year olds, but if not, (and the data form the 16&17 is OK) we open it to younger people, whose parents wish them to have it. but recognise it gets more complex the younger you go.
From the other thread - Cookie wrote
Chance of a 15-year-old being hospitalised: 2000 per million (female); 6000 per million(male) against original covid (Delta is reportedly twice as likely to hospitalise you, so double those). For a 17-year-old: 4000 per million (female); 6000 per million (male). Chance of myocarditis following covid for a young, healthy college-age athlete (which doesn't necessarily hospitalise you): Estimated between 10,000 per million and 30,000 per million.
Estimated chance of myocarditis following Pfizer vaccine: 16 per million. (NB - once again, this doesn't necessarily hospitalise you).
That's not taking into account Long Covid (and that a significant proportion of those hospitalised for covid will have long-term organ damage).
Everyone should make their own decision, but those are the best figures we've got at the moment. Given that Delta is so transmissible, I'm personally working on the default assumption that everyone will see the virus sooner or later. And, for me, as 16 is far lower than 10,000-30,000 (for direct comparability) and even far lower than 2,000-6,000 (or 4,000-12,000 if the hospitalisation risk is indeed doubled for Delta) to compare something less severe with full-on hospitalisation, that's what directs my decision.
(And for adverse effects that are far less - such as feeling rotten for 1-2 days (about 10% after vaccine); I think that should be compared with the chance of at least feeling really rotten for 2-3 weeks (about 60% after virus).
I do understand that others don't necessarily view things the same way."
the CCTV cameras in the office were made by Hikvision, a Chinese firm banned in the US over concerns that it could be used by Beijing as a spying tool.
WTF are the government allowing Chinese CCTV cameras anywhere near their offices? The report says the DoH is leased from a private company, but still, that should be an absolute no no.
I’m utterly astonished that the offices occupied by the ‘top floor’ of government departments, don’t have police as security and MI5 taking an interest in how they’re set up.
Its amazing how pro-child vaccinators are suddenly taking on the mantle of victorian philanthropists concerned with the health of the young.
They are presumably the same pro-vaccinators who were silent when children's education and exercise was severely and at times entirely curtailed for months on end, to the huge detriment of their physical and mental health -
a detriment far greater than a dose of covid could ever have done, or a vaccine from it ever repair.
Equally off topic - Eek Jr was supposed to have a driving test today but that was cancelled due to Covid.
Which means I've spent the last 6 hours taking her back to Windermere and then heading home via the Dales. Given that these are both towns I know well it's save to say that English Tourism is back in full business - everywhere in Windermere is full and both Windermere, Kendal and Hawes were completely heaving.
Ms Eek drove, presumably, for an unscheduled three hour driving lesson?
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
What I am concerned about is that young people are yet again, for the umpteenth time, being sacrificed by a bunch of sixty plus fanatics for whom no measure will ever be enough.
Being vaccinated is being sacrificed? Seriously, just take this bollocks elsewhere.
the CCTV cameras in the office were made by Hikvision, a Chinese firm banned in the US over concerns that it could be used by Beijing as a spying tool.
WTF are the government allowing Chinese CCTV cameras anywhere near their offices? The report says the DoH is leased from a private company, but still, that should be an absolute no no.
I’m utterly astonished that the offices occupied by the ‘top floor’ of government departments, don’t have police as security and MI5 taking an interest in how they’re set up.
Pardon me for not having reviewed the full CCTV, but where exactly is this camera? Is it in DHSC offices or in the common parts outside them?
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
I would be interested to know other 1/1,000 risks.
Is it a dying while trying to put your trousers on kind of risk or a jump in the car and drive 10 miles up the A1 risk?
I like the drive your car 10 miles comparison with COVID. In both cases, the bulk of the safety measures are in your hands and so you control most of the risks. But in both cases, you cannot control the risks from other idiots' behaviour, nor the unforeseen risks from the equipment (car/vaccine).
Yep. That is fair. You are at the mercy of bad drivers (of which you are not one, obvs) or over-effusive huggers (or snoggers, seeing as we're talking about teenagers).
Still interested to know the other 1/1,000 risks, that said.
"It is a tinder box about to explode,” a Labour activist campaigning in Batley & Spen tells The Times. For the second time in as many months, the party is battling a Tory challenge as it tries to hold on to its seat at a by-election.Many in Labour have written off their chances of holding the seat.
“The Muslim vote has collapsed,” one activist who has campaigned locally said. “In Spen, the way the pledges are coming back is similar to Hartlepool. Currently we’re losing it by about 6,000 to 7,000 and we could be propelled into third place.""
It’s definitely a contrast with the more positive reports of @NickPalmer, who’s been working the phone banks for Labour and will be more keen to emphasise the good news.
"It is a tinder box about to explode,” a Labour activist campaigning in Batley & Spen tells The Times. For the second time in as many months, the party is battling a Tory challenge as it tries to hold on to its seat at a by-election.Many in Labour have written off their chances of holding the seat.
“The Muslim vote has collapsed,” one activist who has campaigned locally said. “In Spen, the way the pledges are coming back is similar to Hartlepool. Currently we’re losing it by about 6,000 to 7,000 and we could be propelled into third place.""
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
What I am concerned about is that young people are yet again, for the umpteenth time, being sacrificed by a bunch of sixty plus fanatics for whom no measure will ever be enough.
Being vaccinated is being sacrificed? Seriously, just take this bollocks elsewhere.
--AS
I think, in fairness, use of metaphorical language can be forgiven even if the point is disagreed with.
"It is a tinder box about to explode,” a Labour activist campaigning in Batley & Spen tells The Times. For the second time in as many months, the party is battling a Tory challenge as it tries to hold on to its seat at a by-election.Many in Labour have written off their chances of holding the seat.
“The Muslim vote has collapsed,” one activist who has campaigned locally said. “In Spen, the way the pledges are coming back is similar to Hartlepool. Currently we’re losing it by about 6,000 to 7,000 and we could be propelled into third place.""
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
The first vaccination rate in the UK is about 0.4% of adult population per day, with the number as of yesterday at 84% of adults. Wales strongly suggests that it will top out at about 89% of adults.
That means in about 12-14 days*, the first vaccinations will be over - in terms of people actually trying to get vaccinated.
The supply pipeline for vaccines is months long and you can't just get an extra delivery.
So no, he can't change anything at this point.
*Yes - that assumes it doesn't tail off.
Its' good but not good enough. It leaves several million people unvaccinated and even more with only partial protection. We need to find ways to incentivise those we have missed, go looking for them and persuade. There is a lot to do here and it is very important to our protection from not only delta but the next variant off the block (which must surely be overdue).
If we get take-up to 90% of the population, that is very good, by vaccination standards.
We are giving out the vaccine in just about every way that can be thought of, for free.
The simple truth is that there are a chunk of people who won't take it. The government has tried with the recalcitrant sections of the population and is still trying. But, ultimately, we live in a world where people feel entitled to their own truth.
From the anti-vax garbage I have seen, much of it is beyond reason.
I am certainly not wired into Bill Gates skynet after having my Moderna jabs...beep boop beep booppppppp.
I have already sent an angry e-mail to Microsoft - I didn't turn into the Incredible Hulk after mine. Which means, back to the gym. Sigh. Defective chip, I suppose.
After my second dose, I have had irresistible urges to smell lampposts and suspicious looking puddles on the pavement. I guess I got the tracking chip ...
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
I would be interested to know other 1/1,000 risks.
Is it a dying while trying to put your trousers on kind of risk or a jump in the car and drive 10 miles up the A1 risk?
I like the drive your car 10 miles comparison with COVID. In both cases, the bulk of the safety measures are in your hands and so you control most of the risks. But in both cases, you cannot control the risks from other idiots' behaviour, nor the unforeseen risks from the equipment (car/vaccine).
Yep. That is fair. You are at the mercy of bad drivers (of which you are not one, obvs) or over-effusive huggers (or snoggers, seeing as we're talking about teenagers).
Still interested to know the other 1/1,000 risks, that said.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
You find it extraordinary that anybody could consider ethics in a way that isn't entirely selfish.
The selfishness has come entirely from the boomer generation, who have destroyed the education, mental health and life chances of young people to save themselves. At every single turn.
Well yes. But I don't think that equates to 'don't vaccinate children'. If the information we have shows that the risks of giving children the vaccine are less than letting them catch covid, to me, that equates to give them the vaccine. Because the odds of them not getting covid seem small. Now its quite difficult to evaluate the risks of children catching covid. They almost certainly won't die. But there is a non-negligible chance that they might get quite ill. In a life-changing way? I'm not sure. But then again, the risks from the vaccine also seem tiny.
If my daughters had the chance to get vaccinated, I'd be very keen for them to be. My understanding is that though covid almost certainly won't kill them, it might make them seriously ill. Particularly the asthmatic one. Possibly in a way which does them permanent harm. Whereas the risk from the vaccine seems negligible.
It seems inevitable that they will be exposed to covid - particularly if we don't vaccinate children. The only calculation is what risk to them this is (in terms of more complex than just death or no death).
And I've been with you all the way on wanting to open up. I don't think lockdown works very well, and even if it did it would be a disproportionate reaction to the problem. But I don't see why thinking that should mean I don't want everyone who would benefit from it to be vaccinated.
I simply find it strange that people who were quite happy to see the lives of the young destroyed in ways covid could never have done think it is suddenly 'moral' to protect children from it.
If they had really wanted to protect children, they would allowed them to go on having their education, and exercising, right through the pandemic.
The lack of both affects more than 1 in a thousand. As will the poverty that comes with the enormous debt they have been saddled with.
Its amazing how pro-child vaccinators are suddenly taking on the mantle of victorian philanthropists concerned with the health of the young.
They are presumably the same pro-vaccinators who were silent when children's education and exercise was severely and at times entirely curtailed for months on end, to the huge detriment of their physical and mental health -
a detriment far greater than a dose of covid could ever have done, or a vaccine from it ever repair.
More likely the opposite and they were advocating needles into school-aged arms in order to get the sprogs back into free childcare or whatever else it is that goes on in schools.
the CCTV cameras in the office were made by Hikvision, a Chinese firm banned in the US over concerns that it could be used by Beijing as a spying tool.
WTF are the government allowing Chinese CCTV cameras anywhere near their offices? The report says the DoH is leased from a private company, but still, that should be an absolute no no.
I’m utterly astonished that the offices occupied by the ‘top floor’ of government departments, don’t have police as security and MI5 taking an interest in how they’re set up.
Well lets not forget the same security services didn't seem to think there was much of an issue with Huawei...gave the thumbs up for them to control 5G infrastructure.
Sir Keir’s fan club are trying to defend the leaflet by saying the photo was doctored… here’s the original. How is it any better?
No wonder they blacked out the text. The leaflet is about Islamophobia, and shows Boris Johnson meeting a notorious Islamophobe while pointing out the Tories' long history of Islaphobia, including Johnson's own comments. I think the leaflet is completely fine.
Can't see what difference it makes. Either sectarian campaigns are ok or they are not.
This is a landmark day - the day the sickeningly pious centrists admitted they were no different to Jezza, Farage, Boris, Nick Griffin and all the others they pretended to be outraged by.
I cant work out if I'm one of the sickeningly pious centrist there or not.
First avoidance of doubt I dont think the leaflet is ok even with the full context, since its divisive motivation on sectarian grounds seems clear.
I think I am one of the sickeningly pious centrist. At least I hope I am.
I'm not convinced the leaflet is sectarian, although I am not an expert on these things. If the picture was just a random Indian politician I would be inclined to think it was obviously playing the anti India card and was out of order. But Modi is not just a random Indian politician. This is the guy who was put under a travel ban by the US, UK and EU for his role in the pogrom in Gujarat when he was Chief Minister of the state. So if people want to use him as a poster boy for Islamophobia, which the US State Department thought he was guilty of, I don't think that's unreasonable.
"It is a tinder box about to explode,” a Labour activist campaigning in Batley & Spen tells The Times. For the second time in as many months, the party is battling a Tory challenge as it tries to hold on to its seat at a by-election.Many in Labour have written off their chances of holding the seat.
“The Muslim vote has collapsed,” one activist who has campaigned locally said. “In Spen, the way the pledges are coming back is similar to Hartlepool. Currently we’re losing it by about 6,000 to 7,000 and we could be propelled into third place.""
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
What are you thinking "vaccination" means? What's your mental image there?
People being given lethal injections en masse.
That was rather what I got from the post. Visions of wooden huts and crocodile smiles.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
The first vaccination rate in the UK is about 0.4% of adult population per day, with the number as of yesterday at 84% of adults. Wales strongly suggests that it will top out at about 89% of adults.
That means in about 12-14 days*, the first vaccinations will be over - in terms of people actually trying to get vaccinated.
The supply pipeline for vaccines is months long and you can't just get an extra delivery.
So no, he can't change anything at this point.
*Yes - that assumes it doesn't tail off.
Its' good but not good enough. It leaves several million people unvaccinated and even more with only partial protection. We need to find ways to incentivise those we have missed, go looking for them and persuade. There is a lot to do here and it is very important to our protection from not only delta but the next variant off the block (which must surely be overdue).
If we get take-up to 90% of the population, that is very good, by vaccination standards.
We are giving out the vaccine in just about every way that can be thought of, for free.
The simple truth is that there are a chunk of people who won't take it. The government has tried with the recalcitrant sections of the population and is still trying. But, ultimately, we live in a world where people feel entitled to their own truth.
From the anti-vax garbage I have seen, much of it is beyond reason.
I am certainly not wired into Bill Gates skynet after having my Moderna jabs...beep boop beep booppppppp.
I have already sent an angry e-mail to Microsoft - I didn't turn into the Incredible Hulk after mine. Which means, back to the gym. Sigh. Defective chip, I suppose.
After my second dose, I have had irresistible urges to smell lampposts and suspicious looking puddles on the pavement. I guess I got the tracking chip ...
Its amazing how pro-child vaccinators are suddenly taking on the mantle of victorian philanthropists concerned with the health of the young.
They are presumably the same pro-vaccinators who were silent when children's education and exercise was severely and at times entirely curtailed for months on end, to the huge detriment of their physical and mental health -
a detriment far greater than a dose of covid could ever have done, or a vaccine from it ever repair.
No. We're not. I've been raging for over a year about the blob's casual treatment of education as a non-essential service. The damage to children has been huge. But I don't see this as a reason not to vaccinate them, subject to the right questions about balance of risks.
I want my children vaccinated for their benefit, not mine.
An interesting header. So the big Johnson divide is educational not Brexit. The more book learning you have the more likely you are to see through him. I find this quite heartening because it means an anti-Johnson viewpoint is rather like a detached house with a patio and a basement wine collection - a sign of having arrived. As such, given the aspirational nature of the British people, it will be much sought after, and with it also being (unlike high end property and vintage merlot) attainable completely free of charge, simply requiring a quick and painless mental upgrade, the numbers are surely set to grow. I've just topped up on Starmer Next PM at 9.
Back him to go by Aug as a Hedge?
I do have a bit of a convoluted composite going on - including the GE bet with you - but, no, I won't be adding that one in. The party will be deciding next Spring/Summer whether Starmer will lead into the election. It would take something seismic to bring that forward to this year. Losing Batley will not imo be such an event.
I've been laying Starmer Exit date 2021 with BF for a while at average price of 4.4
What price should Starmer be to leave in 2021?
Remember that LP leader elections take at least three months to finalise and the BF market settles on this basis: "We will settle this market on the date the Labour Party officially announce their new Permanent Party Leader after Keir Starmer. Temporary/interim leaders do not count. If a temporary/interim leader is appointed we will wait until the date of the announcement of the Permanent Leader before settling. "
I'd want well over 10/1 I think.
Good to see Betfair being quite clear about it this time, after their almighty screw-up over the Theresa May replacement as party leader market.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
The first vaccination rate in the UK is about 0.4% of adult population per day, with the number as of yesterday at 84% of adults. Wales strongly suggests that it will top out at about 89% of adults.
That means in about 12-14 days*, the first vaccinations will be over - in terms of people actually trying to get vaccinated.
The supply pipeline for vaccines is months long and you can't just get an extra delivery.
So no, he can't change anything at this point.
*Yes - that assumes it doesn't tail off.
Its' good but not good enough. It leaves several million people unvaccinated and even more with only partial protection. We need to find ways to incentivise those we have missed, go looking for them and persuade. There is a lot to do here and it is very important to our protection from not only delta but the next variant off the block (which must surely be overdue).
If we get take-up to 90% of the population, that is very good, by vaccination standards.
We are giving out the vaccine in just about every way that can be thought of, for free.
The simple truth is that there are a chunk of people who won't take it. The government has tried with the recalcitrant sections of the population and is still trying. But, ultimately, we live in a world where people feel entitled to their own truth.
From the anti-vax garbage I have seen, much of it is beyond reason.
I am certainly not wired into Bill Gates skynet after having my Moderna jabs...beep boop beep booppppppp.
I have already sent an angry e-mail to Microsoft - I didn't turn into the Incredible Hulk after mine. Which means, back to the gym. Sigh. Defective chip, I suppose.
After my second dose, I have had irresistible urges to smell lampposts and suspicious looking puddles on the pavement. I guess I got the tracking chip ...
I just wanted to eat endless quantities of haddock and herring. I think I got the fish and chip.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
What are you thinking "vaccination" means? What's your mental image there?
People being given lethal injections en masse.
That was rather what I got from the post. Visions of wooden huts and crocodile smiles.
You supported stopping children exercising.
You supported stopping children learning.
You supported saddling them with enormous debt
I didn't.
If there are wooden huts and crocodile smiles at all, that's where they are.
Vaccination of children against covid? for me there are just much bigger priorities.
The fire in #elephantandcastle is now under control. Firefighters will remain at the scene for the next few hours to dampen down the scene. Road closures are still in place in the area.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
What are you thinking "vaccination" means? What's your mental image there?
People being given lethal injections en masse.
That was rather what I got from the post. Visions of wooden huts and crocodile smiles.
More this isn't it ?
With the constant banging on about the "Nuremberg code" for 'forced experimantation'.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
What are you thinking "vaccination" means? What's your mental image there?
People being given lethal injections en masse.
That was rather what I got from the post. Visions of wooden huts and crocodile smiles.
Children being selected for experimentation by Mengele.
the CCTV cameras in the office were made by Hikvision, a Chinese firm banned in the US over concerns that it could be used by Beijing as a spying tool.
WTF are the government allowing Chinese CCTV cameras anywhere near their offices? The report says the DoH is leased from a private company, but still, that should be an absolute no no.
I’m utterly astonished that the offices occupied by the ‘top floor’ of government departments, don’t have police as security and MI5 taking an interest in how they’re set up.
That is the problem with the whole Hancock affair and why the sacked-or-resigned types may be barking up the wrong tree. There are just too many aspects to it. Who is controlling cameras: the government or private landlords? What of the Chinese connection? Where else are there cameras? Was Gina made a director to get round the SpAd rules? Was Gina hired specifically to keep Matt's pecker up? Did taxpayers pay for a shagathon at the G7 health summit? And that's without what Boris did and whether the Saj looked at the numbers before sounding off on reopening and whether it was Carrie who tricked Boris into bringing back the Saj to annoy Cummings who'd tricked Boris into sacking him.
ETA and the private email server which is a security risk but also obfuscates who awarded no-bid contracts to Tory donors and Matt's friends and relations.
So many questions that perhaps they all cancel each other out and Boris skips free.
"It is a tinder box about to explode,” a Labour activist campaigning in Batley & Spen tells The Times. For the second time in as many months, the party is battling a Tory challenge as it tries to hold on to its seat at a by-election.Many in Labour have written off their chances of holding the seat.
“The Muslim vote has collapsed,” one activist who has campaigned locally said. “In Spen, the way the pledges are coming back is similar to Hartlepool. Currently we’re losing it by about 6,000 to 7,000 and we could be propelled into third place.""
Which is completely at odds with what the local L:abour activists have been telling Nick. It seems like B&S is just turning into a complete sh1t show.
Either it's one of the angriest and dirtiest campaigns since Rahman was in Tower Hamlets, or the reporting on it is one of the angiest and dirtiest.
Either way, worrying.
Kim Leadbeater looks like a rabbit that has been placed in a cage with a wolverine.
Harry Cole @MrHarryCole · 1h The problem here is Labour can either claim they are above Galloway's race baiting and bang the more unites us than divides us drum.. or they can get down in the gutter with him. They can't do both.
Sir Keir’s fan club are trying to defend the leaflet by saying the photo was doctored… here’s the original. How is it any better?
No wonder they blacked out the text. The leaflet is about Islamophobia, and shows Boris Johnson meeting a notorious Islamophobe while pointing out the Tories' long history of Islaphobia, including Johnson's own comments. I think the leaflet is completely fine.
Can't see what difference it makes. Either sectarian campaigns are ok or they are not.
This is a landmark day - the day the sickeningly pious centrists admitted they were no different to Jezza, Farage, Boris, Nick Griffin and all the others they pretended to be outraged by.
I cant work out if I'm one of the sickeningly pious centrist there or not.
First avoidance of doubt I dont think the leaflet is ok even with the full context, since its divisive motivation on sectarian grounds seems clear.
I think I am one of the sickeningly pious centrist. At least I hope I am.
I'm not convinced the leaflet is sectarian, although I am not an expert on these things. If the picture was just a random Indian politician I would be inclined to think it was obviously playing the anti India card and was out of order. But Modi is not just a random Indian politician. This is the guy who was put under a travel ban by the US, UK and EU for his role in the pogrom in Gujarat when he was Chief Minister of the state. So if people want to use him as a poster boy for Islamophobia, which the US State Department thought he was guilty of, I don't think that's unreasonable.
Perhaps the outrage of their supporters on here reflects a new commitment from the Conservatives to high ground campaigning with no trace of appeals to identity.
Yes, sure, I'll have another pint. I can handle it.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
For some vaccine-sceptics I've talked to, and read about, the risk from the vaccine cannot in their view be quantified at this time as it is such a new vaccine. That seems to be the main problem in any pro and con appraisal.
I think I understand the 'logic' - we don't know about effects that might happen after 5, 10 or 20 years, so they cannot be fully 'safe'. Against that is that AIUI no vaccine has ever produced a side effect that is not see in the first weeks/months after administration.
"It is a tinder box about to explode,” a Labour activist campaigning in Batley & Spen tells The Times. For the second time in as many months, the party is battling a Tory challenge as it tries to hold on to its seat at a by-election.Many in Labour have written off their chances of holding the seat.
“The Muslim vote has collapsed,” one activist who has campaigned locally said. “In Spen, the way the pledges are coming back is similar to Hartlepool. Currently we’re losing it by about 6,000 to 7,000 and we could be propelled into third place.""
Sajid Javid says ministers shouldn't have cameras in their offices. I must shut that stable door. And he wouldn't be in his current job if that were so. But more seriously, issues include how the video clip got out, the security of all existing footage, and the security of government ministries generally and his one in particular. "No cameras, no problem" isn't the answer to any of those.
I think the public health wankers and dickhead scientists have realised they're in trouble because Sajid won't be as easy to trick with fake data and broken modelling. Getting rid of Hancock is a game changer for this country as the idiot who's clearly afraid of his own shadow will no longer be a constant voice of delay and caution eating up all the bullshit presented to him about 100k cases per day etc...
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
What I am concerned about is that young people are yet again, for the umpteenth time, being sacrificed by a bunch of sixty plus fanatics for whom no measure will ever be enough.
Sacrificed? Do you mean offered a vaccine that may prevent harm from a significant illness? In what way sacrificed?
So are Nissan and Boris making the joint annoucement about creating thousands of jobs on Thursday morning then? Might help fill the news void on the day of the by-election and convert a few waverers.
Of course many of us will still be discussing England's acrimonious exit from Euro 2020.
An enlarged factory in Sunderland won't win any votes 100+ miles area in Batley.
If anything it will emphasis how much Batley is a have not rather than a have place.
And Sunderland is a have place !
It currently has 3 Labour MPs with smallish shrinkable majorities.
And, like Durham, at the local council elections the swing was away from labour. Had the full council gone up for election in Sunderland labour would have lost.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
What are you thinking "vaccination" means? What's your mental image there?
People being given lethal injections en masse.
Vaccinations for diseases that affect children are essential. We all know what they are and why they should be taken.
Vaccinations for diseases that don't affect children....??? What's that all about?
It is not about the health of children.
Now you have jumped the shark. Covid can affect children, and quite seriously. Its not just death that is at issue, but the potential for life changing damage to organs etc.
the CCTV cameras in the office were made by Hikvision, a Chinese firm banned in the US over concerns that it could be used by Beijing as a spying tool.
WTF are the government allowing Chinese CCTV cameras anywhere near their offices? The report says the DoH is leased from a private company, but still, that should be an absolute no no.
I’m utterly astonished that the offices occupied by the ‘top floor’ of government departments, don’t have police as security and MI5 taking an interest in how they’re set up.
Pardon me for not having reviewed the full CCTV, but where exactly is this camera? Is it in DHSC offices or in the common parts outside them?
It is (was) inside the Secretary of State’s office, pointing at the door.
I wonder if it was recording audio, as well as video? I assume that the network firewall doesn’t give internet access to the CCTV subnet and VLAN, or is that also a naïve assumption? Lots of questions...
"It is a tinder box about to explode,” a Labour activist campaigning in Batley & Spen tells The Times. For the second time in as many months, the party is battling a Tory challenge as it tries to hold on to its seat at a by-election.Many in Labour have written off their chances of holding the seat.
“The Muslim vote has collapsed,” one activist who has campaigned locally said. “In Spen, the way the pledges are coming back is similar to Hartlepool. Currently we’re losing it by about 6,000 to 7,000 and we could be propelled into third place.""
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
What I am concerned about is that young people are yet again, for the umpteenth time, being sacrificed by a bunch of sixty plus fanatics for whom no measure will ever be enough.
Sacrificed? Do you mean offered a vaccine that may prevent harm from a significant illness? In what way sacrificed?
Well maybe in this case sacrificed is too strong a word. Inconvenienced.
But there's no doubt, over the course of this pandemic, that young people have been thrown to the wolves. Offering them a covid vaccine is neither here nor there, in comparison.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Its a balance for the individual - how do you give the best health outcome. If the risk from the vaccine is less than the risk of harm from the disease, and in where cases are spreading rapidly in that cohort then yes I think it is justified.
What are your concerns about it?
I would be interested to know other 1/1,000 risks.
Is it a dying while trying to put your trousers on kind of risk or a jump in the car and drive 10 miles up the A1 risk?
I like the drive your car 10 miles comparison with COVID. In both cases, the bulk of the safety measures are in your hands and so you control most of the risks. But in both cases, you cannot control the risks from other idiots' behaviour, nor the unforeseen risks from the equipment (car/vaccine).
Yep. That is fair. You are at the mercy of bad drivers (of which you are not one, obvs) or over-effusive huggers (or snoggers, seeing as we're talking about teenagers).
Still interested to know the other 1/1,000 risks, that said.
“On Sunday, a technical issue caused a delay to the processing of data for England. The government said outstanding cases would be published in the next update, which could be why today's number of cases looks high.”
Yesterday's lower than expected cases was presented with a warning on the front page that some were missing and would be caught up today.
Today's higher than expected numbers have no warning on the front page reminding people of the catch up, so Journos on twitter have gone in to meltdown.
Anyone who thinks the civil service machine is playing this with a straight bat is a ripe customer for a bridge salesman.
the CCTV cameras in the office were made by Hikvision, a Chinese firm banned in the US over concerns that it could be used by Beijing as a spying tool.
WTF are the government allowing Chinese CCTV cameras anywhere near their offices? The report says the DoH is leased from a private company, but still, that should be an absolute no no.
I’m utterly astonished that the offices occupied by the ‘top floor’ of government departments, don’t have police as security and MI5 taking an interest in how they’re set up.
Pardon me for not having reviewed the full CCTV, but where exactly is this camera? Is it in DHSC offices or in the common parts outside them?
It is (was) inside the Secretary of State’s office, pointing at the door.
I wonder if it was recording audio, as well as video? I assume that the network firewall doesn’t give internet access to the CCTV subnet and VLAN, or is that also a naïve assumption? Lots of questions...
Of course the media will be totally focused on when the shagging started....when there is a big story here and lots of questions.
Its a bit like the phone hacking. NOTW and Mirror very bad stuff, but the Indy had some very interesting stories about corporate and international hacking going ons. That got no real traction, but I think there were some very serious issues both from if criminality occurred (pretty sure it did) and also exactly who was behind a lot of it and why.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
What are you thinking "vaccination" means? What's your mental image there?
People being given lethal injections en masse.
Vaccinations for diseases that affect children are essential. We all know what they are and why they should be taken.
Vaccinations for diseases that don't affect children....??? What's that all about?
It is not about the health of children.
Now you have jumped the shark. Covid can affect children, and quite seriously. Its not just death that is at issue, but the potential for life changing damage to organs etc.
lack of exercise and lack of education affects children much more seriously.
Comment from pro child-vax people on the prolonged denial of both during this pandemic, such as yourself?
I think the public health wankers and dickhead scientists have realised they're in trouble because Sajid won't be as easy to trick with fake data and broken modelling. Getting rid of Hancock is a game changer for this country as the idiot who's clearly afraid of his own shadow will no longer be a constant voice of delay and caution eating up all the bullshit presented to him about 100k cases per day etc...
As a dickhead scientist working closely with public health wankers, I endorse this message
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
Why? Unless you're an antivaxx extremist lunatic.
If a million kids get infected and one in a thousand get severe disease if they aren't vaccinated, then that's a thousand kids who don't get severe disease if they're vaccinated.
Why is that anything other than unalloyed good news?
Its amazing how pro-child vaccinators are suddenly taking on the mantle of victorian philanthropists concerned with the health of the young.
They are presumably the same pro-vaccinators who were silent when children's education and exercise was severely and at times entirely curtailed for months on end, to the huge detriment of their physical and mental health -
a detriment far greater than a dose of covid could ever have done, or a vaccine from it ever repair.
Why must you change what people say - most of us have said its about both herd immunity for all and to protect the very small minority of children who could suffer life changing consequences from catching the delta version of covid. If we did not have delta, I suspect daily cases would be in the hundreds and there would be no case to vaccinate the U18s in general. But its here, and spreading fast in those age groups.
It really would be easier if you just admitted to being an anti-vaxer.
An interesting header. So the big Johnson divide is educational not Brexit. The more book learning you have the more likely you are to see through him. I find this quite heartening because it means an anti-Johnson viewpoint is rather like a detached house with a patio and a basement wine collection - a sign of having arrived. As such, given the aspirational nature of the British people, it will be much sought after, and with it also being (unlike high end property and vintage merlot) attainable completely free of charge, simply requiring a quick and painless mental upgrade, the numbers are surely set to grow. I've just topped up on Starmer Next PM at 9.
Back him to go by Aug as a Hedge?
I do have a bit of a convoluted composite going on - including the GE bet with you - but, no, I won't be adding that one in. The party will be deciding next Spring/Summer whether Starmer will lead into the election. It would take something seismic to bring that forward to this year. Losing Batley will not imo be such an event.
I've been laying Starmer Exit date 2021 with BF for a while at average price of 4.4
What price should Starmer be to leave in 2021?
Remember that LP leader elections take at least three months to finalise and the BF market settles on this basis: "We will settle this market on the date the Labour Party officially announce their new Permanent Party Leader after Keir Starmer. Temporary/interim leaders do not count. If a temporary/interim leader is appointed we will wait until the date of the announcement of the Permanent Leader before settling. "
I'd want well over 10/1 I think.
That's a very good lay bet at that price. Barring something really big and atm not on the horizon you'll win. It should be at least double that.
Sigh. Absolutely no question what should be top of Sajid's in-tray. Indeed, empty the bloody in-tray into the bin and put the rate of vaccination back in. Nothing that is in our power is more important economically, socially, healthwise. Nothing.
Disagreed.
The vaccination program is over. We're now chasing up refuseniks and waiting for second doses to become eligible, but everyone has been eligible to get vaccinated now and mass walk in vaccinations are available no appointment necessary nationwide.
If people aren't getting jabbed yet, its because they don't want to be. And if they don't want to be, we should under no circumstances be remaining restricted to protect them.
There should be one item in Sajid's in-tray and that's saying that we are now lifting all legal restrictions. If you haven't yet had it and wish not to be infected with Covid, go get your vaccine, but the restrictions are no longer there to prevent it spreading.
The next question is do we vaccinate kids over the summer holidays?
Are we vaccinating the young
A. to stop them spreading covid to granny who was double jabbed months ago
or
B. to make a pretty negligible threat to them even more negligible?
Firstly we are not vaccinating the young yet (with some medically approved exceptions). And I think both A and B apply. If we wish to get true heard immunity in the face of the very transmissible delta, then we may need to get as many of the 12-18 year olds done too. In the face of rising cases, and with a non-zero risk of harm from covid in that age group there is a clinical case for vaccinating for their protection, in addition to the benefits to the entire population.
Turbo mate the average person who passed away from covid was 82 with two or more co-morbidities.
Look at the stats. For U18 there is about 1 in 1000 chance of severe disease with Covid. For an individual its vanishingly small, but it means in a school of 1000 pupils who all get covid, one with be seriously ill with potential life changing consequences. Its not simple.
I find it extraordinary you are justifying mass vaccination of children on this basis. Utterly extraordinary.
What are you thinking "vaccination" means? What's your mental image there?
People being given lethal injections en masse.
Vaccinations for diseases that affect children are essential. We all know what they are and why they should be taken.
Vaccinations for diseases that don't affect children....??? What's that all about?
It is not about the health of children.
Now you have jumped the shark. Covid can affect children, and quite seriously. Its not just death that is at issue, but the potential for life changing damage to organs etc.
Now? I fear you haven't been paying attention over the past few months.
“On Sunday, a technical issue caused a delay to the processing of data for England. The government said outstanding cases would be published in the next update, which could be why today's number of cases looks high.”
Zero deaths recorded over the weekend despite this although no doubt there will be the odd laggard recorded. Even allowing for lags the link is broken. That is the key message (other than get your vaccines while their hot, 2 for absolutely nothing).
The small print is that the Registers are normally closed over the weekend, so wouldn't expect any deaths recorded, but the message is right. The vaccines work. Get yours in.
Absolutely. My 23 year old gets her first vaccine this afternoon at 4. My 17 year old has an appointment for his first in 2 weeks time. Daughter number 1 and us oldies are already double vaxxed.
I really want my son to have had both jabs before he goes away for University in October. The incredible slow down in the rate of vaccination has been making me anxious about this (since he would want to have had it no later than mid September) but I hope it will still be possible.
In about 2 weeks, the first vaccinations will be down to pretty much nothing - lack of demand. Your son will be able to get his second dose as early as he wants, I reckon.
The original Pfizer trial was with a three week gap, which is what USA, UAE and Israel have stuck with. That could quickly become the norm for the youngsters, as the queue disappears.
To reply to myself, those three countries are also now vaccinating 12+ age groups, in the millions. We will very quickly discover if there’s any issues that might prevent the UK rollout of the same groups.
Comments
It is also obvious we are getting to some of the harder to reach sections of society although my own family shows that is still an over simplification. We will come up against resistance. As you say, that is their right but we need to think how we incentivise those who have proven to be reluctant. It is why I backed covid passports, for example.
If we had kept up with the April/early May rate I do not think that the delay on 21st June would have been necessary but we didn't. We have slowed further and that makes the decision in July more marginal than it should have been. I remain convinced we need to go for the removal of regulation as soon as possible but the quid pro quo is surely rapid vaccination.
Is it a dying while trying to put your trousers on kind of risk or a jump in the car and drive 10 miles up the A1 risk?
1 Price.
2 Service. These cameras are brilliant! They upload all their images automatically to a secure server in Wuhan, guaranteed to never lose an important recording!
At least I think I am.
First avoidance of doubt I dont think the leaflet is ok even with the full context, since its divisive motivation on sectarian grounds seems clear.
I'm not Sherlock Holmes but I sense a connection.
What price should Starmer be to leave in 2021?
Remember that LP leader elections take at least three months to finalise and the BF market settles on this basis: "We will settle this market on the date the Labour Party officially announce their new Permanent Party Leader after Keir Starmer. Temporary/interim leaders do not count. If a temporary/interim leader is appointed we will wait until the date of the announcement of the Permanent Leader before settling. "
I'd want well over 10/1 I think.
He is probably more likely not to make the GE, than win it, now though
As it happened, Andrew and Olivia, an NHS clinical psychologist, were making a “farewell walk” up Snowdon to mark the end of their relationship.....then they came back and found they had been done for failing to pay and display. Kick in the gut.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/15415232/snowdon-hikers-slapped-with-fine/
Not next to the privations that young people wholesale have suffered at the hands of boomers. To save their own necks.
But, I think the disition to as to whether to use them on mass, has not yet been taken, even for the 16 & 17 year olds.
I would assume that people in the health department, possibly including Hancock, where hopping that R would be so low by now, that they would not have to make that dicition, i.e. it would be unassay.
The problem being, both risks as very very small, COVID to children and Vaccine in children, and its not clear that the former is bigger than the latter, therefore might be the cases that by vaccinating you put that individual at a bigger risk that just letting them catch COVID. but by doing that you might stop the population as a whole form reaching 'herd immunity' but not defiantly, perhaps when we have given every adult who wants one a jab and a second one, and 2 weeks, that will be enough.
Timing, I recon we have 8 days left maybe less until the number of people coming forward for a first jab drops to a trickle, so need to chose soon, but will be 2 months ish until we have given ever second jab, plus 2 weeks, so that's almost back to school time.
What to do? I think we can let 16 and 17 year olds decide for themselves, many may what to take it, ether to show they 'believe in science', or so they feel safer visiting granny, or so they are fully vacated, ready for the day they tern 18 and go night clubbing, or whatever. \perhaps only half or less will, but that in and off itself will give us better data on how it affects that age group.
I think we should let 16 & 17 start booking slots now/ASAP. Hopefully, R goes below 1 before we run out of 16&17 year olds, but if not, (and the data form the 16&17 is OK) we open it to younger people, whose parents wish them to have it. but recognise it gets more complex the younger you go.
Still interested to know the other 1/1,000 risks, that said.
Someone was busy going through the binary to remove the code when I (and some others) suggested a better way.....
Either way, worrying.
Vaccinations for diseases that don't affect children....??? What's that all about?
It is not about the health of children.
So our 3/1 bet should at this point be 5/1. You're up.
If the information we have shows that the risks of giving children the vaccine are less than letting them catch covid, to me, that equates to give them the vaccine. Because the odds of them not getting covid seem small.
Now its quite difficult to evaluate the risks of children catching covid. They almost certainly won't die. But there is a non-negligible chance that they might get quite ill. In a life-changing way? I'm not sure. But then again, the risks from the vaccine also seem tiny.
If my daughters had the chance to get vaccinated, I'd be very keen for them to be. My understanding is that though covid almost certainly won't kill them, it might make them seriously ill. Particularly the asthmatic one. Possibly in a way which does them permanent harm. Whereas the risk from the vaccine seems negligible.
It seems inevitable that they will be exposed to covid - particularly if we don't vaccinate children. The only calculation is what risk to them this is (in terms of more complex than just death or no death).
And I've been with you all the way on wanting to open up. I don't think lockdown works very well, and even if it did it would be a disproportionate reaction to the problem. But I don't see why thinking that should mean I don't want everyone who would benefit from it to be vaccinated.
https://twitter.com/tele_education/status/1409462879724658689?s=20
Chance of a 15-year-old being hospitalised: 2000 per million (female); 6000 per million(male) against original covid (Delta is reportedly twice as likely to hospitalise you, so double those).
For a 17-year-old: 4000 per million (female); 6000 per million (male).
Chance of myocarditis following covid for a young, healthy college-age athlete (which doesn't necessarily hospitalise you): Estimated between 10,000 per million and 30,000 per million.
Estimated chance of myocarditis following Pfizer vaccine: 16 per million.
(NB - once again, this doesn't necessarily hospitalise you).
That's not taking into account Long Covid (and that a significant proportion of those hospitalised for covid will have long-term organ damage).
Everyone should make their own decision, but those are the best figures we've got at the moment. Given that Delta is so transmissible, I'm personally working on the default assumption that everyone will see the virus sooner or later. And, for me, as 16 is far lower than 10,000-30,000 (for direct comparability) and even far lower than 2,000-6,000 (or 4,000-12,000 if the hospitalisation risk is indeed doubled for Delta) to compare something less severe with full-on hospitalisation, that's what directs my decision.
(And for adverse effects that are far less - such as feeling rotten for 1-2 days (about 10% after vaccine); I think that should be compared with the chance of at least feeling really rotten for 2-3 weeks (about 60% after virus).
I do understand that others don't necessarily view things the same way."
They are presumably the same pro-vaccinators who were silent when children's education and exercise was severely and at times entirely curtailed for months on end, to the huge detriment of their physical and mental health -
a detriment far greater than a dose of covid could ever have done, or a vaccine from it ever repair.
--AS
https://www.riskcomm.com/visualaids/riskscale/datasources.php
Childbirth is the only activity/event that comes within an order of magnitude close.
Edit: that is a great website.
If they had really wanted to protect children, they would allowed them to go on having their education, and exercising, right through the pandemic.
The lack of both affects more than 1 in a thousand. As will the poverty that comes with the enormous debt they have been saddled with.
I'm not convinced the leaflet is sectarian, although I am not an expert on these things. If the picture was just a random Indian politician I would be inclined to think it was obviously playing the anti India card and was out of order. But Modi is not just a random Indian politician. This is the guy who was put under a travel ban by the US, UK and EU for his role in the pogrom in Gujarat when he was Chief Minister of the state. So if people want to use him as a poster boy for Islamophobia, which the US State Department thought he was guilty of, I don't think that's unreasonable.
I want my children vaccinated for their benefit, not mine.
You supported stopping children learning.
You supported saddling them with enormous debt
I didn't.
If there are wooden huts and crocodile smiles at all, that's where they are.
Vaccination of children against covid? for me there are just much bigger priorities.
https://twitter.com/LondonFire/status/1409525060826800129?s=20
With the constant banging on about the "Nuremberg code" for 'forced experimantation'.
ETA and the private email server which is a security risk but also obfuscates who awarded no-bid contracts to Tory donors and Matt's friends and relations.
So many questions that perhaps they all cancel each other out and Boris skips free.
@MrHarryCole
·
1h
The problem here is Labour can either claim they are above Galloway's race baiting and bang the more unites us than divides us drum.. or they can get down in the gutter with him. They can't do both.
Yes, sure, I'll have another pint. I can handle it.
Or maybe I’m getting old, naïve and and have lived away for too long, to think that elections should be conducted in a positive and friendly manner?
I wonder if it was recording audio, as well as video? I assume that the network firewall doesn’t give internet access to the CCTV subnet and VLAN, or is that also a naïve assumption? Lots of questions...
I’m not sure she was expecting Galloway and his bend of Merry men, thought she’s be primarily fighting the Conservative.
But there's no doubt, over the course of this pandemic, that young people have been thrown to the wolves. Offering them a covid vaccine is neither here nor there, in comparison.
Taken from terrificscience.org/lessonpdfs/Scientific_View_of_Risk.pdf
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-57634438
Today's higher than expected numbers have no warning on the front page reminding people of the catch up, so Journos on twitter have gone in to meltdown.
Anyone who thinks the civil service machine is playing this with a straight bat is a ripe customer for a bridge salesman.
Its a bit like the phone hacking. NOTW and Mirror very bad stuff, but the Indy had some very interesting stories about corporate and international hacking going ons. That got no real traction, but I think there were some very serious issues both from if criminality occurred (pretty sure it did) and also exactly who was behind a lot of it and why.
Comment from pro child-vax people on the prolonged denial of both during this pandemic, such as yourself?
None.
If a million kids get infected and one in a thousand get severe disease if they aren't vaccinated, then that's a thousand kids who don't get severe disease if they're vaccinated.
Why is that anything other than unalloyed good news?
It really would be easier if you just admitted to being an anti-vaxer.