Labour’s Hiraeth – politicalbetting.com

Gardenwalker

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

felix said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

williamglenn said:

Gardenwalker said:

CarlottaVance said:

The British government in general has been very well behaved, especially given the provocation:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1378784539884027908?s=20

Although not “recent months”, Priti Patel’s assertion that we could starve out the Irish if they were recalcitrant was a “keeper”.

At the time she was a backbencher. Ursula von der Leyen actually tried to block the UK’s vaccine deliveries on a day when when over 1000 people died.

Who’s defending UdL?

The best that can be said for her is that she turns out well.

And she’s had an enormous number of children while building a political career which must require phenomenal powers of time management.

Oh, and Priti may have been a “backbencher” but is now holds the #4 position in the land. Her demented ravings, sadly, carry weight.

You won't like it much when she becomes PM then?

It’s hard to think of someone worse than Johnson. But Patel, I think, qualifies.

She’s clearly as thick as pig-shit, but has a sadistic sixth sense for what plays well with the “red tops”.

I think she'll do well.

Sure you do; I believe the French call it, “the English vice”.

I might be wrong of course in my expectation, but if you doubt my sincerity as to my expressed view then you're just plain wrong,

I thought better of you.

PS I still think better of you.

I don’t doubt your sincerity.
I just doubt your sanity, or suspect you of masochistic tendencies. Or both.

Yeah well, sanity - who can say. Masochistic tendencies? Do explain.

Patel is an authoritarian, bullying bitch.
But some guys like that.

Your use of such language says a lot more about you than the person you malign.

Not really.

Yes really

What is this, bedwetter’s evening on PB?

Black_Rook

Cookie said:

Anabobazina said:

dixiedean said:

Anabobazina said:

I see we are back, yet again, to the WFH, all-or-nothing, introvert vs extrovert, culture wars.

As usual, it won’t be one or the other for most people, but a hybrid. WFH is great for solitary tasks, in-person is better for collaborative working.

Therefore most employees will work a mixture, 3-5 days a fortnight at home, and the rest in offices or on site.

That's what most sensible folk appear to have concluded.
It is not the stated position of the PM in a few statements over a period of months.

I WFH before Covid, seven days a fortnight. It suited me. Ten days a fortnight WFH is a nightmare! We need people!

I can, if I want, cycle to my office. But my big fear is masks being mandated in offices.

It's entirely possible. I work in a lab rather than an office, but basically the rule is that I'm excused the evil thing whilst I'm actually in the room where I do my work but I'm stuck in it the whole of the rest of the time - when I come in and out of work, when I need to visit another area, going up and down the corridors and going to the loo. I don't know how it works for other people but I can readily imagine that mine might not exactly be the only workplace where this kind of yo-yo masking happens. I think mine comes on and off about thirty times a day.

felix

Gardenwalker said:

felix said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

williamglenn said:

Gardenwalker said:

CarlottaVance said:

The British government in general has been very well behaved, especially given the provocation:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1378784539884027908?s=20

Although not “recent months”, Priti Patel’s assertion that we could starve out the Irish if they were recalcitrant was a “keeper”.

At the time she was a backbencher. Ursula von der Leyen actually tried to block the UK’s vaccine deliveries on a day when when over 1000 people died.

Who’s defending UdL?

The best that can be said for her is that she turns out well.

And she’s had an enormous number of children while building a political career which must require phenomenal powers of time management.

Oh, and Priti may have been a “backbencher” but is now holds the #4 position in the land. Her demented ravings, sadly, carry weight.

You won't like it much when she becomes PM then?

It’s hard to think of someone worse than Johnson. But Patel, I think, qualifies.

She’s clearly as thick as pig-shit, but has a sadistic sixth sense for what plays well with the “red tops”.

I think she'll do well.

Sure you do; I believe the French call it, “the English vice”.

I might be wrong of course in my expectation, but if you doubt my sincerity as to my expressed view then you're just plain wrong,

I thought better of you.

PS I still think better of you.

I don’t doubt your sincerity.
I just doubt your sanity, or suspect you of masochistic tendencies. Or both.

Yeah well, sanity - who can say. Masochistic tendencies? Do explain.

Patel is an authoritarian, bullying bitch.
But some guys like that.

Your use of such language says a lot more about you than the person you malign.

Not really.

It really does - no woman should be subject to your potty mouth - it's unpleasant and advances no argument about anything.

Gardenwalker

felix said:

Gardenwalker said:

felix said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

williamglenn said:

Gardenwalker said:

CarlottaVance said:

The British government in general has been very well behaved, especially given the provocation:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1378784539884027908?s=20

Although not “recent months”, Priti Patel’s assertion that we could starve out the Irish if they were recalcitrant was a “keeper”.

At the time she was a backbencher. Ursula von der Leyen actually tried to block the UK’s vaccine deliveries on a day when when over 1000 people died.

Who’s defending UdL?

The best that can be said for her is that she turns out well.

And she’s had an enormous number of children while building a political career which must require phenomenal powers of time management.

Oh, and Priti may have been a “backbencher” but is now holds the #4 position in the land. Her demented ravings, sadly, carry weight.

You won't like it much when she becomes PM then?

It’s hard to think of someone worse than Johnson. But Patel, I think, qualifies.

She’s clearly as thick as pig-shit, but has a sadistic sixth sense for what plays well with the “red tops”.

I think she'll do well.

Sure you do; I believe the French call it, “the English vice”.

I might be wrong of course in my expectation, but if you doubt my sincerity as to my expressed view then you're just plain wrong,

I thought better of you.

PS I still think better of you.

I don’t doubt your sincerity.
I just doubt your sanity, or suspect you of masochistic tendencies. Or both.

Yeah well, sanity - who can say. Masochistic tendencies? Do explain.

Patel is an authoritarian, bullying bitch.
But some guys like that.

Your use of such language says a lot more about you than the person you malign.

Not really.

It really does - no woman should be subject to your potty mouth - it's unpleasant and advances no argument about anything.

I wonder how much of the Home Office payout was attributable to Patel’s “potty mouth”.

Leon

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

Cookie said:

On the subject of Hiraeth: I am no expert, but the Welsh language has some lovely concepts. I'm particularly fond of Gwlad (which as I understand it roughly translates as the land which one feels an emotional connection to as home) and Hiraeth, particularly in its sense as a longing for Gwlad.
My own particular Gwlad is most of the North of England. For nine years I lived in Nottingham. It seems churlish to complain about being too far south when it was, what, fifty miles at most south of where I was born, but I felt Hiraeth often; and the pleaaure of arriving in my Gwlad was always tempered by the ache that it was a visit, and soon I would be leaving again.
Eventually I moved back to Manchester. I remember arriving at Piccadilly station a few weeks aftwr moving, after a day at work; ten to six on a sunny September evening. There was a big screen at Piccadilly which was showing a weather map of the North of England roughly from Chester in the south west to Newcastle in the north east. Improbably, across the whole of this area the map showed nothing but sun. I felt a momentary pang of Hiraeth, before remembering that this was home once more; I had returned to my Gwlad and could put the ache of being aw

I should emphasise that Nottingham was fine. It just wasn't Gwlad.

With apologies of I have misunderstood either concept!

is it possible to have a Hiraeth for a Gwlad where you have never lived?

I have experienced this in parts of east or southern Africa, the peculiar smell of the soil, around the dry heat of twilight, that ebbs away into marvellous darkness. It just feels right.

I guess you could argue this is a Hiraeth of the DNA. We evolved for so many 100,000s of years, on the plains and plateaux of east and south Africa. The human soul feels at home there

Yet I have also felt a Hiraeth in the Mediterranean, especially Greece. It churns some primordial yearning to come back. I don't get it in Spain or southern France or even Italy (lovely as they are). But in Greece, yes.

Strange

The only other place that evokes Hiraeth, for me, is London. Especially Regent's Park. Or Charlotte Street on a sunny day

I thought you were Cornish.
I may be confusing you with someone else.

Cornwall would be a rather pleasant place to retire to. I have plentiful friends and family there. It is an option. Probably somewhere in or between Truro or Falmouth.

If you have a bit of money you can have a notably high quality of life. Little crime, fresh air, good seafood, lovely walks, epic seascapes, decent cultural diversions, some interesting arty people. Top notch

But does it invoke hiraeth for my gwlad? No, not as I understand those terms

A yellow taxi light on a rainy Soho night is more evocative, for me, as A A Gill once famously put it. Likewise the Pelion Peninsula, or the shores of the upper Zambesi

felix

Gardenwalker said:

felix said:

Gardenwalker said:

felix said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

williamglenn said:

Gardenwalker said:

CarlottaVance said:

The British government in general has been very well behaved, especially given the provocation:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1378784539884027908?s=20

Although not “recent months”, Priti Patel’s assertion that we could starve out the Irish if they were recalcitrant was a “keeper”.

At the time she was a backbencher. Ursula von der Leyen actually tried to block the UK’s vaccine deliveries on a day when when over 1000 people died.

Who’s defending UdL?

The best that can be said for her is that she turns out well.

And she’s had an enormous number of children while building a political career which must require phenomenal powers of time management.

Oh, and Priti may have been a “backbencher” but is now holds the #4 position in the land. Her demented ravings, sadly, carry weight.

You won't like it much when she becomes PM then?

It’s hard to think of someone worse than Johnson. But Patel, I think, qualifies.

She’s clearly as thick as pig-shit, but has a sadistic sixth sense for what plays well with the “red tops”.

I think she'll do well.

Sure you do; I believe the French call it, “the English vice”.

I might be wrong of course in my expectation, but if you doubt my sincerity as to my expressed view then you're just plain wrong,

I thought better of you.

PS I still think better of you.

I don’t doubt your sincerity.
I just doubt your sanity, or suspect you of masochistic tendencies. Or both.

Yeah well, sanity - who can say. Masochistic tendencies? Do explain.

Patel is an authoritarian, bullying bitch.
But some guys like that.

Your use of such language says a lot more about you than the person you malign.

Not really.

It really does - no woman should be subject to your potty mouth - it's unpleasant and advances no argument about anything.

I wonder how much of the Home Office payout was attributable to Patel’s “potty mouth”.

In your case no need to wonder. You really should be ashamed to use words like that in a public forum.

alex_

FrancisUrquhart said:

Remember when we used to wonder about low rates in India...well they definitely have it bad now. I doubt their testing even scratches the surface.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1378803527615721481?s=19

Accept your point about testing, but 103,000 cases? That's pro rata about current reported cases in the UK.

another_richard

There's an article in the Sunday Times today about 'wild swimming'.

Jo Swinson is a wild swimmer.

Leon

FrancisUrquhart said:

Remember when we used to wonder about low rates in India...well they definitely have it bad now. I doubt their testing even scratches the surface.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1378803527615721481?s=19

The USA has done 300k new cases in a day, so this is not a global record.

However, I fear that India is quite capable of breaking that record

Omnium

HYUFD said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

williamglenn said:

Gardenwalker said:

CarlottaVance said:

The British government in general has been very well behaved, especially given the provocation:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1378784539884027908?s=20

Although not “recent months”, Priti Patel’s assertion that we could starve out the Irish if they were recalcitrant was a “keeper”.

At the time she was a backbencher. Ursula von der Leyen actually tried to block the UK’s vaccine deliveries on a day when when over 1000 people died.

Who’s defending UdL?

The best that can be said for her is that she turns out well.

And she’s had an enormous number of children while building a political career which must require phenomenal powers of time management.

Oh, and Priti may have been a “backbencher” but is now holds the #4 position in the land. Her demented ravings, sadly, carry weight.

You won't like it much when she becomes PM then?

It’s hard to think of someone worse than Johnson. But Patel, I think, qualifies.

She’s clearly as thick as pig-shit, but has a sadistic sixth sense for what plays well with the “red tops”.

I think she'll do well.

Sure you do; I believe the French call it, “the English vice”.

I might be wrong of course in my expectation, but if you doubt my sincerity as to my expressed view then you're just plain wrong,

I thought better of you.

PS I still think better of you.

I don’t doubt your sincerity.
I just doubt your sanity, or suspect you of masochistic tendencies. Or both.

Yeah well, sanity - who can say. Masochistic tendencies? Do explain.

Patel is an authoritarian, bullying bitch.
But some guys like that.

If you say so.

Not to mention she was fired by May for freelancing her own dodgy foreign policy.

I'm not sure you can tell me where I said she was perfect.

I think she's really good, and I'd like to see her as next PM. I guess that's what matters.

I cannot see her taking over as PM as long as the Tories are in government, Sunak would almost certainly become PM if Boris went before the next general election.

If Boris lost the next election though I could see Patel as Ed Miliband to Sunak's David Miliband and becoming Leader of the Opposition to PM Starmer

No. I can't quite see it either.

But this is progress surely! Me - an establishment sort of trying-not-to-be-elderly white male really quite enthused by the idea of a short Indian aggressive woman running our country?

MaxPB

Benpointer said:

rcs1000 said:

Malmesbury said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

alex_ said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/antoguerrera/status/1378758531017551880?s=21

There are two routes to herd immunity...

Although it is presumably "possible" to reach it in the UK depending on how solid the protection is from single doses. Unless the point is that it is impossible without children.

Either way I think the Commission is making the mistake of promising things outside its control. The problem of antivax sentiment won’t be apparent initially while demand outstrips supply, but will be a big issue when they face pressure to open up with lots of unvaccinated people floating around.

While I think the EU won't get there until the beginning of September, he's not so very wrong.

Don't forget that (a) vaccine production is only growing, and (b) in about three months the US and the UK will be consuming close to zero doses. Plus, of course, an increasing proportion of available jabs will be single shot J&J ones.

Put those together, and it doesn't seem far fetched that the EU will be dosing 5m people a day come the summer. Three months of that, plus the fact that a lot of people will have already had it in the bloc, gets you there by the beginning of the Autumn.

I also think we're being a bit conservative here. More than half of UK adults have protection from at least one shot of the virus, and the most vulnerable have two. Plus there are going to be a lot of people, particularly in lower risk groups, that have already had it.

I'm no Great Barrington Declaration person, but I think you could remove lots of UK restrictions right now, especially if you prevented unvaccinated people from entering the country, without seeing cases spike.

The UK is in a very strong position, even compared to the US. The EU has 27 members to worry about and they don’t all have the same level of infrastructure to manage the rollout.

I agree with you re the US. Go look at the vaccination numbers for Alabama or Mississippi. Despite being open for all adults to get vaccinated, and there being no shortage of vaccines in the US, you are seeing the numbers vaccinated in those states dropping week-over-week. It's a combination of sceptical African-Americans and QAnon covid deniers.

We could see, and I find this astonishing, vaccine take up in these states below 35%.

The point, though, remains that the major problem the EU has is lack of vaccines. Simply, they prioritized price per dose over getting the doses quickly, which was a monumental error. But it's also a short lived one.

If you removed restrictions, cases would increase. Current hospitalisation R is a bit below 1, remember. So we have a steady decline in hospitalisations but not a collapse to zero.

Which is why we have a push to get the over 50s done and then on to the 40s.

Once the 50s are done and the 40s are first vaccinated, hospitalisations should collapse as well.

1. You're looking at this through the rear view mirror. Firstly, the hospitalization R is based on cases three weeks ago (at least). Secondly, the AZ vaccine takes some time to be maximally effective. This means that - even if we removed all restrictions, which I'm not suggesting - then hospitalization R is going to keep falling for the next month or so, irrespective of what we do.

2. So what if the hospitalization rate ticks up a little? Given that the number of vaccinated people is only going in one direction, and any R above one would only be marginally above, then (frankly) so what?

I'm not suggesting getting rid of all restrictions, merely speeding up the place of removing them.

For me, this is a really powerful representation of the likely impact both of removing restrictions and rolling out the vaccine on R. Since March 13th the actuals have continued to track this guy's projections very closely.

https://twitter.com/goalprojection/status/1370682788496687106?s=20

Well we're already way below that most optimistic of scenarios, so that's a pretty good sign for the vaccines.

Gardenwalker

felix said:

Gardenwalker said:

felix said:

Gardenwalker said:

felix said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

williamglenn said:

Gardenwalker said:

CarlottaVance said:

The British government in general has been very well behaved, especially given the provocation:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1378784539884027908?s=20

Although not “recent months”, Priti Patel’s assertion that we could starve out the Irish if they were recalcitrant was a “keeper”.

At the time she was a backbencher. Ursula von der Leyen actually tried to block the UK’s vaccine deliveries on a day when when over 1000 people died.

Who’s defending UdL?

The best that can be said for her is that she turns out well.

And she’s had an enormous number of children while building a political career which must require phenomenal powers of time management.

Oh, and Priti may have been a “backbencher” but is now holds the #4 position in the land. Her demented ravings, sadly, carry weight.

You won't like it much when she becomes PM then?

It’s hard to think of someone worse than Johnson. But Patel, I think, qualifies.

She’s clearly as thick as pig-shit, but has a sadistic sixth sense for what plays well with the “red tops”.

I think she'll do well.

Sure you do; I believe the French call it, “the English vice”.

I might be wrong of course in my expectation, but if you doubt my sincerity as to my expressed view then you're just plain wrong,

I thought better of you.

PS I still think better of you.

I don’t doubt your sincerity.
I just doubt your sanity, or suspect you of masochistic tendencies. Or both.

Yeah well, sanity - who can say. Masochistic tendencies? Do explain.

Patel is an authoritarian, bullying bitch.
But some guys like that.

Your use of such language says a lot more about you than the person you malign.

Not really.

It really does - no woman should be subject to your potty mouth - it's unpleasant and advances no argument about anything.

I wonder how much of the Home Office payout was attributable to Patel’s “potty mouth”.

In your case no need to wonder. You really should be ashamed to use words like that in a public forum.

Perfectly good Anglo-Saxon, and very accurate for Patel.

Now, do fuck off; it’s well past your bed time.

Andy_JS

UK now 37th in terms of cases.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Pulpstar

alex_ said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Remember when we used to wonder about low rates in India...well they definitely have it bad now. I doubt their testing even scratches the surface.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1378803527615721481?s=19

Accept your point about testing, but 103,000 cases? That's pro rata about current reported cases in the UK.

Corresponds to 5k UK cases.

Omnium

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

felix said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

williamglenn said:

Gardenwalker said:

CarlottaVance said:

The British government in general has been very well behaved, especially given the provocation:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1378784539884027908?s=20

Although not “recent months”, Priti Patel’s assertion that we could starve out the Irish if they were recalcitrant was a “keeper”.

At the time she was a backbencher. Ursula von der Leyen actually tried to block the UK’s vaccine deliveries on a day when when over 1000 people died.

Who’s defending UdL?

The best that can be said for her is that she turns out well.

And she’s had an enormous number of children while building a political career which must require phenomenal powers of time management.

Oh, and Priti may have been a “backbencher” but is now holds the #4 position in the land. Her demented ravings, sadly, carry weight.

You won't like it much when she becomes PM then?

It’s hard to think of someone worse than Johnson. But Patel, I think, qualifies.

She’s clearly as thick as pig-shit, but has a sadistic sixth sense for what plays well with the “red tops”.

I think she'll do well.

Sure you do; I believe the French call it, “the English vice”.

I might be wrong of course in my expectation, but if you doubt my sincerity as to my expressed view then you're just plain wrong,

I thought better of you.

PS I still think better of you.

I don’t doubt your sincerity.
I just doubt your sanity, or suspect you of masochistic tendencies. Or both.

Yeah well, sanity - who can say. Masochistic tendencies? Do explain.

Patel is an authoritarian, bullying bitch.
But some guys like that.

Your use of such language says a lot more about you than the person you malign.

Not really.

Yes really

What is this, bedwetter’s evening on PB?

Dunno puddle, you tell us

Mexicanpete

Pagan2 said:

ydoethur said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

One assumes there are a fair few alcoholics on PB, statistically speaking.

Staistasically shpeaking you may be right.

But he can still piss off.

I thank you,,,

Edit - bollocks, hit comma instead of full stop. Must have had too much wine,

You are not drunk you are just a medium channelling charles kennedy?

Not sure that is in the best possible taste. Particularly as the point being made was the SNP campaign was itself particularly tasteless.

Leon

Andy_JS said:

UK now 37th in terms of cases.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Look at France, suddenly

60,000 new cases today. Close to the peak UK nightmare in January

felix

Gardenwalker said:

felix said:

Gardenwalker said:

felix said:

Gardenwalker said:

felix said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

williamglenn said:

Gardenwalker said:

CarlottaVance said:

The British government in general has been very well behaved, especially given the provocation:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1378784539884027908?s=20

Although not “recent months”, Priti Patel’s assertion that we could starve out the Irish if they were recalcitrant was a “keeper”.

At the time she was a backbencher. Ursula von der Leyen actually tried to block the UK’s vaccine deliveries on a day when when over 1000 people died.

Who’s defending UdL?

The best that can be said for her is that she turns out well.

And she’s had an enormous number of children while building a political career which must require phenomenal powers of time management.

Oh, and Priti may have been a “backbencher” but is now holds the #4 position in the land. Her demented ravings, sadly, carry weight.

You won't like it much when she becomes PM then?

It’s hard to think of someone worse than Johnson. But Patel, I think, qualifies.

She’s clearly as thick as pig-shit, but has a sadistic sixth sense for what plays well with the “red tops”.

I think she'll do well.

Sure you do; I believe the French call it, “the English vice”.

I might be wrong of course in my expectation, but if you doubt my sincerity as to my expressed view then you're just plain wrong,

I thought better of you.

PS I still think better of you.

I don’t doubt your sincerity.
I just doubt your sanity, or suspect you of masochistic tendencies. Or both.

Yeah well, sanity - who can say. Masochistic tendencies? Do explain.

Patel is an authoritarian, bullying bitch.
But some guys like that.

Your use of such language says a lot more about you than the person you malign.

Not really.

It really does - no woman should be subject to your potty mouth - it's unpleasant and advances no argument about anything.

I wonder how much of the Home Office payout was attributable to Patel’s “potty mouth”.

In your case no need to wonder. You really should be ashamed to use words like that in a public forum.

Perfectly good Anglo-Saxon, and very accurate for Patel.

Now, do fuck off; it’s well past your bed time.

The charitable explanation for such ignorant and unpleasant language is that you must be drunk. It's not mine.

Gallowgate

I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

another_richard

Black_Rook said:

alex_ said:

tlg86 said:

Mortimer said:

Anabobazina said:

I see we are back, yet again, to the WFH, all-or-nothing, introvert vs extrovert, culture wars.

As usual, it won’t be one or the other for most people, but a hybrid. WFH is great for solitary tasks, in-person is better for collaborative working.

Therefore most employees will work a mixture, 3-5 days a fortnight at home, and the rest in offices or on site.

This was my feeling at first. Now I think its going to be far more back in the office.

Will be interesting to see. The big firms have already started mandating it; doesn't surprise me....

We haven't had the argument about masks, yet. It's my red line. As long as they are mandated on public transport, I am not going to the office.

To be honest, i get that some people don't like it, but near universal mask wearing on public transport (especially the tube network) could well be the biggest public health improvement since the smoking ban. And would massively cut office sickness rates. Whether the government should mandate it is a separate debate, but it will be interesting to see how many people would do it voluntarily.

The best way to cut down workplace sickness rates would be to deal with the problem of presenteeism: we want to get away from a culture where folk feel obliged to turn up to work and spend the day hacking their germs up all over the place, regardless of whether some of them are caught by a flimsy mask or not.

When some people are off work the work they would have done is done by someone else.

When other people are off work the work they would have done piles up on their desk.

Guess which group has the incentive not to be off work.

MaxPB

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

BBC News - Covid: Passports showing vaccine status would be 'time-limited', says minister
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56634176

Sounds like government can kicking....no decision until May, after a review. Convenient way of U-turning?

It’s a nudge thing. It’s so blatantly obvious. Get the reluctant suffering from a case of FOMO if they don’t get vaccinated.

Yes, it's a nudge. It's working in Israel

Is it? Their new first dose vaccination rate is now just 0.04% per day, about 4k new recipients. Israel has the capability to vaccinate 2% of its total population in a single day. I'd suggest that the vaccine passport has made precisely no difference because the people who are refusing it (Orthodox Jews and Arabs) don't interact with wider society anyway so don't really lose anything by not having a vaccine passport. The same will be true here as the major refusal group is now conservative Muslims who don't really interact with wider society anyway. Vaccine passports will do nothing to get them to take it. Young people will have a 95%+ uptake rate mostly because it's the only way to travel, whether that's to do a gap yah or get battered in Magaluf.

Mexicanpete

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Mexicanpete said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Very nice thread header, boyo!

I have lived in Wales since 1986. Both my parents were first language Welsh speakers. The only Welsh people I have ever heard say boyo are the actors Windsor Davies and Richard Davies. Both presumably reading scripts written by English people.

You forgot about John Talfryn Thomas in Dad's Army.

Written by a Londoner and a Geordie I believe. Although I think one of them was a Redcoat/ Bluecoat at a holiday camp in Prestattn, so what do I know?

FrancisUrquhart

alex_ said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Remember when we used to wonder about low rates in India...well they definitely have it bad now. I doubt their testing even scratches the surface.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1378803527615721481?s=19

Accept your point about testing, but 103,000 cases? That's pro rata about current reported cases in the UK.

Look at the rate of increase. Its about as steep as a black run in the Alps. Exponential growth and all that.

isam

Leon said:

Cookie said:

On the subject of Hiraeth: I am no expert, but the Welsh language has some lovely concepts. I'm particularly fond of Gwlad (which as I understand it roughly translates as the land which one feels an emotional connection to as home) and Hiraeth, particularly in its sense as a longing for Gwlad.
My own particular Gwlad is most of the North of England. For nine years I lived in Nottingham. It seems churlish to complain about being too far south when it was, what, fifty miles at most south of where I was born, but I felt Hiraeth often; and the pleaaure of arriving in my Gwlad was always tempered by the ache that it was a visit, and soon I would be leaving again.
Eventually I moved back to Manchester. I remember arriving at Piccadilly station a few weeks aftwr moving, after a day at work; ten to six on a sunny September evening. There was a big screen at Piccadilly which was showing a weather map of the North of England roughly from Chester in the south west to Newcastle in the north east. Improbably, across the whole of this area the map showed nothing but sun. I felt a momentary pang of Hiraeth, before remembering that this was home once more; I had returned to my Gwlad and could put the ache of being aw

I should emphasise that Nottingham was fine. It just wasn't Gwlad.

With apologies of I have misunderstood either concept!

is it possible to have a Hiraeth for a Gwlad where you have never lived?

I have experienced this in parts of east or southern Africa, the peculiar smell of the soil, around the dry heat of twilight, that ebbs away into marvellous darkness. It just feels right.

I guess you could argue this is a Hiraeth of the DNA. We evolved for so many 100,000s of years, on the plains and plateaux of east and south Africa. The human soul feels at home there

Yet I have also felt a Hiraeth in the Mediterranean, especially Greece. It churns some primordial yearning to come back. I don't get it in Spain or southern France or even Italy (lovely as they are). But in Greece, yes.

Strange

The only other place that evokes Hiraeth, for me, is London. Especially Regent's Park. Or Charlotte Street on a sunny day

No joke, last Tuesday I drove to football training and had to pass by the shops near my parents house, that I used to ride to as a kid. It was that really warm day last week, about 545 and the sun was shining straight at me. When I got home I said to my girlfriend it had given me the maddest feeling, and it sounds like it was Hiraeth!

MaxPB

Gallowgate said:

I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

There's going to be a fair amount of reporting delay for Friday, yesterday, today, tomorrow and Tuesday. We may actually get a one off triple digit day of deaths by reporting on Wednesday because there is going to be 5 days worth of backlogging in the system. Cases will also be higher for Wednesday and Thursday compared to normal.

Benpointer

Gallowgate said:

I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

Not around here they aren't.

The relative lack of decline in cases through March was surely entirely due to predicted increase in R following the schools re-opening and the increased testing associated with that?

Cyclefree

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

I hope people are appreciating my new avatar.

I’m disappointed actually,I was hoping you would put one of your latest works of craft up.

Edit - for once, that wasn’t deliberate.

My avatar has hidden artistry. I wonder if anyone can spot it

Yves Klein?

Gallowgate

Benpointer said:

Gallowgate said:

I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

Not around here they aren't.

That's what you think.

Foxy

DougSeal said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Remember when we used to wonder about low rates in India...well they definitely have it bad now. I doubt their testing even scratches the surface.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1378803527615721481?s=19

South Africa is the one to watch now.

One of our nurses in his early forties lost both parents and a sister in one week to covid, a couple of weeks back. That was in Nigeria. There will be a lot of under reporting, but IFR adjusted for age will I think be grim there.

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless

Pagan2

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

Cookie said:

On the subject of Hiraeth: I am no expert, but the Welsh language has some lovely concepts. I'm particularly fond of Gwlad (which as I understand it roughly translates as the land which one feels an emotional connection to as home) and Hiraeth, particularly in its sense as a longing for Gwlad.
My own particular Gwlad is most of the North of England. For nine years I lived in Nottingham. It seems churlish to complain about being too far south when it was, what, fifty miles at most south of where I was born, but I felt Hiraeth often; and the pleaaure of arriving in my Gwlad was always tempered by the ache that it was a visit, and soon I would be leaving again.
Eventually I moved back to Manchester. I remember arriving at Piccadilly station a few weeks aftwr moving, after a day at work; ten to six on a sunny September evening. There was a big screen at Piccadilly which was showing a weather map of the North of England roughly from Chester in the south west to Newcastle in the north east. Improbably, across the whole of this area the map showed nothing but sun. I felt a momentary pang of Hiraeth, before remembering that this was home once more; I had returned to my Gwlad and could put the ache of being aw

I should emphasise that Nottingham was fine. It just wasn't Gwlad.

With apologies of I have misunderstood either concept!

is it possible to have a Hiraeth for a Gwlad where you have never lived?

I have experienced this in parts of east or southern Africa, the peculiar smell of the soil, around the dry heat of twilight, that ebbs away into marvellous darkness. It just feels right.

I guess you could argue this is a Hiraeth of the DNA. We evolved for so many 100,000s of years, on the plains and plateaux of east and south Africa. The human soul feels at home there

Yet I have also felt a Hiraeth in the Mediterranean, especially Greece. It churns some primordial yearning to come back. I don't get it in Spain or southern France or even Italy (lovely as they are). But in Greece, yes.

Strange

The only other place that evokes Hiraeth, for me, is London. Especially Regent's Park. Or Charlotte Street on a sunny day

I thought you were Cornish.
I may be confusing you with someone else.

Admits to being cornish so maybe me

geoffw

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

I hope people are appreciating my new avatar.

I’m disappointed actually,I was hoping you would put one of your latest works of craft up.

Edit - for once, that wasn’t deliberate.

My avatar has hidden artistry. I wonder if anyone can spot it

Yves Klein?

Bingo!

Mexicanpete

Gardenwalker said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

ydoethur said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Mexicanpete said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Very nice thread header, boyo!

I have lived in Wales since 1986. Both my parents were first language Welsh speakers. The only Welsh people I have ever heard say boyo are the actors Windsor Davies and Richard Davies. Both presumably reading scripts written by English people.

You forgot about John Talfryn Thomas in Dad's Army.

Same scriptwriters, of course...

Nogood Boyo shall live forever more in Llaregub.

Llareggub.

You are right, Dylan Thomas used it in UMW.

His most dislikeable work.

And yet the one everyone knows (and seems to love).

A Child's Christmas in Wales?

Black_Rook

Gallowgate said:

I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

Yes, but will that keep going after the schools come back, or level off, or tick back up a bit? We shall find out in due course.

another_richard said:

Black_Rook said:

alex_ said:

tlg86 said:

Mortimer said:

Anabobazina said:

I see we are back, yet again, to the WFH, all-or-nothing, introvert vs extrovert, culture wars.

As usual, it won’t be one or the other for most people, but a hybrid. WFH is great for solitary tasks, in-person is better for collaborative working.

Therefore most employees will work a mixture, 3-5 days a fortnight at home, and the rest in offices or on site.

This was my feeling at first. Now I think its going to be far more back in the office.

Will be interesting to see. The big firms have already started mandating it; doesn't surprise me....

We haven't had the argument about masks, yet. It's my red line. As long as they are mandated on public transport, I am not going to the office.

To be honest, i get that some people don't like it, but near universal mask wearing on public transport (especially the tube network) could well be the biggest public health improvement since the smoking ban. And would massively cut office sickness rates. Whether the government should mandate it is a separate debate, but it will be interesting to see how many people would do it voluntarily.

The best way to cut down workplace sickness rates would be to deal with the problem of presenteeism: we want to get away from a culture where folk feel obliged to turn up to work and spend the day hacking their germs up all over the place, regardless of whether some of them are caught by a flimsy mask or not.

When some people are off work the work they would have done is done by someone else.

When other people are off work the work they would have done piles up on their desk.

Guess which group has the incentive not to be off work.

The fact that some employers are crap doesn't render the entire notion invalid.

Gardenwalker

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

Cookie said:

On the subject of Hiraeth: I am no expert, but the Welsh language has some lovely concepts. I'm particularly fond of Gwlad (which as I understand it roughly translates as the land which one feels an emotional connection to as home) and Hiraeth, particularly in its sense as a longing for Gwlad.
My own particular Gwlad is most of the North of England. For nine years I lived in Nottingham. It seems churlish to complain about being too far south when it was, what, fifty miles at most south of where I was born, but I felt Hiraeth often; and the pleaaure of arriving in my Gwlad was always tempered by the ache that it was a visit, and soon I would be leaving again.
Eventually I moved back to Manchester. I remember arriving at Piccadilly station a few weeks aftwr moving, after a day at work; ten to six on a sunny September evening. There was a big screen at Piccadilly which was showing a weather map of the North of England roughly from Chester in the south west to Newcastle in the north east. Improbably, across the whole of this area the map showed nothing but sun. I felt a momentary pang of Hiraeth, before remembering that this was home once more; I had returned to my Gwlad and could put the ache of being aw

I should emphasise that Nottingham was fine. It just wasn't Gwlad.

With apologies of I have misunderstood either concept!

is it possible to have a Hiraeth for a Gwlad where you have never lived?

I have experienced this in parts of east or southern Africa, the peculiar smell of the soil, around the dry heat of twilight, that ebbs away into marvellous darkness. It just feels right.

I guess you could argue this is a Hiraeth of the DNA. We evolved for so many 100,000s of years, on the plains and plateaux of east and south Africa. The human soul feels at home there

Yet I have also felt a Hiraeth in the Mediterranean, especially Greece. It churns some primordial yearning to come back. I don't get it in Spain or southern France or even Italy (lovely as they are). But in Greece, yes.

Strange

The only other place that evokes Hiraeth, for me, is London. Especially Regent's Park. Or Charlotte Street on a sunny day

I thought you were Cornish.
I may be confusing you with someone else.

Admits to being cornish so maybe me

Yes, I know you’re Cornish.

Indeed, you’re a native a Cornish speaker, despite what it says in all the history books (and Wikipedia).

(I don’t particularly doubt you, but it’s an astonishing disclosure).

Pagan2

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

ydoethur said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

One assumes there are a fair few alcoholics on PB, statistically speaking.

Staistasically shpeaking you may be right.

But he can still piss off.

I thank you,,,

Edit - bollocks, hit comma instead of full stop. Must have had too much wine,

You are not drunk you are just a medium channelling charles kennedy?

Not sure that is in the best possible taste. Particularly as the point being made was the SNP campaign was itself particularly tasteless.

Gosh what was bad taste about that? Get a life maybe?

Leon

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

BBC News - Covid: Passports showing vaccine status would be 'time-limited', says minister
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56634176

Sounds like government can kicking....no decision until May, after a review. Convenient way of U-turning?

It’s a nudge thing. It’s so blatantly obvious. Get the reluctant suffering from a case of FOMO if they don’t get vaccinated.

Yes, it's a nudge. It's working in Israel

Is it? Their new first dose vaccination rate is now just 0.04% per day, about 4k new recipients. Israel has the capability to vaccinate 2% of its total population in a single day. I'd suggest that the vaccine passport has made precisely no difference because the people who are refusing it (Orthodox Jews and Arabs) don't interact with wider society anyway so don't really lose anything by not having a vaccine passport. The same will be true here as the major refusal group is now conservative Muslims who don't really interact with wider society anyway. Vaccine passports will do nothing to get them to take it. Young people will have a 95%+ uptake rate mostly because it's the only way to travel, whether that's to do a gap yah or get battered in Magaluf.

AIUI it is mopping up the last few hold-outs in the Israeli young. Yes they have a big problem with orthodox jews and arabs who will always say no, until, perhaps, they start dying in another wave

Britain should hopefully do better, and a nudge would help. As I say I believe the vaxport should be voluntary for businesses and sectors inside our domestic economy, tho I expect lots of firms to say Yes, as they believe it will give vital reassurance to nervous customers. Just as it is with airlines.

Let the market decide

OK now I am going to watch Vikings. The last series! *Sob*

Gallowgate

MaxPB said:

Gallowgate said:

I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

There's going to be a fair amount of reporting delay for Friday, yesterday, today, tomorrow and Tuesday. We may actually get a one off triple digit day of deaths by reporting on Wednesday because there is going to be 5 days worth of backlogging in the system. Cases will also be higher for Wednesday and Thursday compared to normal.

Even so, they're certainly not going up.

Where is the backlog on testing anyway? I assume in England anyway the labs are not backed up and at home LFTs are still able to be logged?

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

CatMan said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

williamglenn said:

Gardenwalker said:

CarlottaVance said:

The British government in general has been very well behaved, especially given the provocation:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1378784539884027908?s=20

Although not “recent months”, Priti Patel’s assertion that we could starve out the Irish if they were recalcitrant was a “keeper”.

At the time she was a backbencher. Ursula von der Leyen actually tried to block the UK’s vaccine deliveries on a day when when over 1000 people died.

Who’s defending UdL?

The best that can be said for her is that she turns out well.

And she’s had an enormous number of children while building a political career which must require phenomenal powers of time management.

Oh, and Priti may have been a “backbencher” but is now holds the #4 position in the land. Her demented ravings, sadly, carry weight.

You won't like it much when she becomes PM then?

Priti Patel voted against Gay Marriage. In my opinion that tells me everything you need to know about her and what she would do if she ever became PM (God help us).

More Tory MPs voted against gay marriage than for in 2013, it was the majority of LD and Labour MPs combined with the pro gay marriage minority of Tory MPs in the Coalition years which got it passed

And you are proud of that are you

Foxy

Benpointer said:

Gallowgate said:

I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

Not around here they aren't.

The relative lack of decline in cases through March was surely entirely due to predicted increase in R following the schools re-opening and the increased testing associated with that?

Yes, there has been an uptick in case numbers in my part of the world too.

https://twitter.com/CovidLeics/status/1377665999403687940?s=19

Andy_JS

algarkirk said:

tlg86 said:

My God, Cambrdigeshire is flat and utterly boring.

The fens, the flat lands and the east - from north of Cambridge to Lincoln, and where Cambs, Lincs and Norfolk meet, and beyond must be the most under appreciated, under visited and magnificent part of England. so much of its charm is that there is so much and no-one goes there. Secret England. Dorothy L Sayers 'Nine Tailors' captures it well.

+1

Sunil_Prasannan

FrancisUrquhart said:

Remember when we used to wonder about low rates in India...well they definitely have it bad now. I doubt their testing even scratches the surface.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1378803527615721481?s=19

I mentioned this upthread - it's actually 103,793 cases:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/

Gardenwalker

Mexicanpete said:

Gardenwalker said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

ydoethur said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Mexicanpete said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Very nice thread header, boyo!

I have lived in Wales since 1986. Both my parents were first language Welsh speakers. The only Welsh people I have ever heard say boyo are the actors Windsor Davies and Richard Davies. Both presumably reading scripts written by English people.

You forgot about John Talfryn Thomas in Dad's Army.

Same scriptwriters, of course...

Nogood Boyo shall live forever more in Llaregub.

Llareggub.

You are right, Dylan Thomas used it in UMW.

His most dislikeable work.

And yet the one everyone knows (and seems to love).

A Child's Christmas in Wales?

Alright alright.

I’m more of an RS Thomas fan, anyway.

MaxPB

Foxy said:

Benpointer said:

Gallowgate said:

I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

Not around here they aren't.

The relative lack of decline in cases through March was surely entirely due to predicted increase in R following the schools re-opening and the increased testing associated with that?

Yes, there has been an uptick in case numbers in my part of the world too.

https://twitter.com/CovidLeics/status/1377665999403687940?s=19

Leicester has had this problem literally all year. I wonder why it's been so bad there when comparable demographic areas in London like Brent and Harrow haven't had anything like these same problems.

Sunil_Prasannan

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

williamglenn said:

Gardenwalker said:

CarlottaVance said:

The British government in general has been very well behaved, especially given the provocation:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1378784539884027908?s=20

Although not “recent months”, Priti Patel’s assertion that we could starve out the Irish if they were recalcitrant was a “keeper”.

At the time she was a backbencher. Ursula von der Leyen actually tried to block the UK’s vaccine deliveries on a day when when over 1000 people died.

Who’s defending UdL?

The best that can be said for her is that she turns out well.

And she’s had an enormous number of children while building a political career which must require phenomenal powers of time management.

Oh, and Priti may have been a “backbencher” but is now holds the #4 position in the land. Her demented ravings, sadly, carry weight.

You won't like it much when she becomes PM then?

It’s hard to think of someone worse than Johnson. But Patel, I think, qualifies.

She’s clearly as thick as pig-shit, but has a sadistic sixth sense for what plays well with the “red tops”.

I think she'll do well.

Sure you do; I believe the French call it, “the English vice”.

I might be wrong of course in my expectation, but if you doubt my sincerity as to my expressed view then you're just plain wrong,

I thought better of you.

PS I still think better of you.

I don’t doubt your sincerity.
I just doubt your sanity, or suspect you of masochistic tendencies. Or both.

Yeah well, sanity - who can say. Masochistic tendencies? Do explain.

Patel is an authoritarian, bullying bitch.
But some guys like that.

Misogynist kitty's got claws!!

Mexicanpete

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless

Llafur are rubbish. RT's Welsh Tories ratchet that wretchedness down several notches.

CorrectHorseBattery

10 cases again.

Surely we’ll have a zero day soon.

Benpointer

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Remember when we used to wonder about low rates in India...well they definitely have it bad now. I doubt their testing even scratches the surface.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1378803527615721481?s=19

I mentioned this upthread - it's actually 103,793 cases:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/

Thanks for that correction... makes a big difference.

Andy_JS

"Fifty-two areas of England record no Covid in over-70s in past week

The areas, largely in east and southeast of England, were in many cases the hardest hit during the peak of the second wave"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/04/fifty-two-areas-england-record-no-covid-over-70s-past-week/

Pagan2

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

Cookie said:

On the subject of Hiraeth: I am no expert, but the Welsh language has some lovely concepts. I'm particularly fond of Gwlad (which as I understand it roughly translates as the land which one feels an emotional connection to as home) and Hiraeth, particularly in its sense as a longing for Gwlad.
My own particular Gwlad is most of the North of England. For nine years I lived in Nottingham. It seems churlish to complain about being too far south when it was, what, fifty miles at most south of where I was born, but I felt Hiraeth often; and the pleaaure of arriving in my Gwlad was always tempered by the ache that it was a visit, and soon I would be leaving again.
Eventually I moved back to Manchester. I remember arriving at Piccadilly station a few weeks aftwr moving, after a day at work; ten to six on a sunny September evening. There was a big screen at Piccadilly which was showing a weather map of the North of England roughly from Chester in the south west to Newcastle in the north east. Improbably, across the whole of this area the map showed nothing but sun. I felt a momentary pang of Hiraeth, before remembering that this was home once more; I had returned to my Gwlad and could put the ache of being aw

I should emphasise that Nottingham was fine. It just wasn't Gwlad.

With apologies of I have misunderstood either concept!

is it possible to have a Hiraeth for a Gwlad where you have never lived?

I have experienced this in parts of east or southern Africa, the peculiar smell of the soil, around the dry heat of twilight, that ebbs away into marvellous darkness. It just feels right.

I guess you could argue this is a Hiraeth of the DNA. We evolved for so many 100,000s of years, on the plains and plateaux of east and south Africa. The human soul feels at home there

Yet I have also felt a Hiraeth in the Mediterranean, especially Greece. It churns some primordial yearning to come back. I don't get it in Spain or southern France or even Italy (lovely as they are). But in Greece, yes.

Strange

The only other place that evokes Hiraeth, for me, is London. Especially Regent's Park. Or Charlotte Street on a sunny day

I thought you were Cornish.
I may be confusing you with someone else.

Admits to being cornish so maybe me

Yes, I know you’re Cornish.

Indeed, you’re a native a Cornish speaker, despite what it says in all the history books (and Wikipedia).

(I don’t particularly doubt you, but it’s an astonishing disclosure).

Shrugs all I can tell you is I learnt cornish and english off my parents and my grandparents basically only spoke a language they called cornish, what the hell am I meant to call it? I don't really care what history books and wikipedia has to say. Considering my grandparents were from warleggan which only got connected to the road network in the 1950's yes I am prepared to believe that when they left in 1920 odd they spoke a language known as cornish

MaxPB

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

BBC News - Covid: Passports showing vaccine status would be 'time-limited', says minister
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56634176

Sounds like government can kicking....no decision until May, after a review. Convenient way of U-turning?

It’s a nudge thing. It’s so blatantly obvious. Get the reluctant suffering from a case of FOMO if they don’t get vaccinated.

Yes, it's a nudge. It's working in Israel

Is it? Their new first dose vaccination rate is now just 0.04% per day, about 4k new recipients. Israel has the capability to vaccinate 2% of its total population in a single day. I'd suggest that the vaccine passport has made precisely no difference because the people who are refusing it (Orthodox Jews and Arabs) don't interact with wider society anyway so don't really lose anything by not having a vaccine passport. The same will be true here as the major refusal group is now conservative Muslims who don't really interact with wider society anyway. Vaccine passports will do nothing to get them to take it. Young people will have a 95%+ uptake rate mostly because it's the only way to travel, whether that's to do a gap yah or get battered in Magaluf.

AIUI it is mopping up the last few hold-outs in the Israeli young. Yes they have a big problem with orthodox jews and arabs who will always say no, until, perhaps, they start dying in another wave

Britain should hopefully do better, and a nudge would help. As I say I believe the vaxport should be voluntary for businesses and sectors inside our domestic economy, tho I expect lots of firms to say Yes, as they believe it will give vital reassurance to nervous customers. Just as it is with airlines.

Let the market decide

OK now I am going to watch Vikings. The last series! *Sob*

But the point is that we're already on track for 95% uptake, we're going to be the number one country in the world for vaccine uptake already. These measures are unnecessary and those last 5% will either get natural immunity at some point, die or get the J&J jab three weeks before they want to go and visit family in Pakistan. A domestic vaccine passport won't achieve anything, which is why it's now being gently rowed back. Yesterday they said no pubs and restaurants, today they're saying actually we won't have it for test events anyway, we've also seen they're now talking about a sunset clause and not introducing them until every adult in the country has been offered it.

It feels like Gove and Hancock decided to try and bounce Boris and the rest of the Cabinet into accepting them and now the government is once again having to row it all back just like they did whe Hancock was gleefully telling everyone unlockdown would be based on case rates rather than the hospitalisation rate.

CorrectHorseBattery

I think Patel is dreadful but that kind of language isn’t fair dude

Gardenwalker

I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

Foxy

MaxPB said:

Foxy said:

Benpointer said:

Gallowgate said:

I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

Not around here they aren't.

The relative lack of decline in cases through March was surely entirely due to predicted increase in R following the schools re-opening and the increased testing associated with that?

Yes, there has been an uptick in case numbers in my part of the world too.

https://twitter.com/CovidLeics/status/1377665999403687940?s=19

Leicester has had this problem literally all year. I wonder why it's been so bad there when comparable demographic areas in London like Brent and Harrow haven't had anything like these same problems.

It's not just Leicester with all its edgy multiculturalism and poverty. Look at the figures for Hinckley and Bosworth, or Melton. Classic Shire Middle England localities. The Melton outbreak is a village cluster outside the town. The theory is that it is car sharing, but who knows?

Big_G_NorthWales

Mexicanpete said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless

Llafur are rubbish. RT's Welsh Tories ratchet that wretchedness down several notches.

As I said he is hopeless and any success in Wales will be from Boris and the vaccine roll-out

Black_Rook

Foxy said:

Benpointer said:

Gallowgate said:

I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

Not around here they aren't.

The relative lack of decline in cases through March was surely entirely due to predicted increase in R following the schools re-opening and the increased testing associated with that?

Yes, there has been an uptick in case numbers in my part of the world too.

https://twitter.com/CovidLeics/status/1377665999403687940?s=19

There is still some clustering, and some very stubborn spots (e.g. Leicester, Luton, West & South Yorks,) but in most areas where cases are going back up it's by small numbers (and more often than not from a low base.) And overall they are indeed still trickling downwards.

Could go yo-yoing about a bit when schools come back and then the next limited phase of unlocking hits, of course.

CorrectHorseBattery

I am increasingly confident that by the end of the summer we’ll be back to normal

FrancisUrquhart

Foxy said:

DougSeal said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Remember when we used to wonder about low rates in India...well they definitely have it bad now. I doubt their testing even scratches the surface.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1378803527615721481?s=19

South Africa is the one to watch now.

One of our nurses in his early forties lost both parents and a sister in one week to covid, a couple of weeks back. That was in Nigeria. There will be a lot of under reporting, but IFR adjusted for age will I think be grim there.

Nigeria cases numbers just aren't believable.

Pagan2

Gardenwalker said:

I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

Nope for once we agree I only disagree on july, june 21st no ifs no buts no u turns

Gardenwalker

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

Cookie said:

On the subject of Hiraeth: I am no expert, but the Welsh language has some lovely concepts. I'm particularly fond of Gwlad (which as I understand it roughly translates as the land which one feels an emotional connection to as home) and Hiraeth, particularly in its sense as a longing for Gwlad.
My own particular Gwlad is most of the North of England. For nine years I lived in Nottingham. It seems churlish to complain about being too far south when it was, what, fifty miles at most south of where I was born, but I felt Hiraeth often; and the pleaaure of arriving in my Gwlad was always tempered by the ache that it was a visit, and soon I would be leaving again.
Eventually I moved back to Manchester. I remember arriving at Piccadilly station a few weeks aftwr moving, after a day at work; ten to six on a sunny September evening. There was a big screen at Piccadilly which was showing a weather map of the North of England roughly from Chester in the south west to Newcastle in the north east. Improbably, across the whole of this area the map showed nothing but sun. I felt a momentary pang of Hiraeth, before remembering that this was home once more; I had returned to my Gwlad and could put the ache of being aw

I should emphasise that Nottingham was fine. It just wasn't Gwlad.

With apologies of I have misunderstood either concept!

is it possible to have a Hiraeth for a Gwlad where you have never lived?

I have experienced this in parts of east or southern Africa, the peculiar smell of the soil, around the dry heat of twilight, that ebbs away into marvellous darkness. It just feels right.

I guess you could argue this is a Hiraeth of the DNA. We evolved for so many 100,000s of years, on the plains and plateaux of east and south Africa. The human soul feels at home there

Yet I have also felt a Hiraeth in the Mediterranean, especially Greece. It churns some primordial yearning to come back. I don't get it in Spain or southern France or even Italy (lovely as they are). But in Greece, yes.

Strange

The only other place that evokes Hiraeth, for me, is London. Especially Regent's Park. Or Charlotte Street on a sunny day

I thought you were Cornish.
I may be confusing you with someone else.

Admits to being cornish so maybe me

Yes, I know you’re Cornish.

Indeed, you’re a native a Cornish speaker, despite what it says in all the history books (and Wikipedia).

(I don’t particularly doubt you, but it’s an astonishing disclosure).

Shrugs all I can tell you is I learnt cornish and english off my parents and my grandparents basically only spoke a language they called cornish, what the hell am I meant to call it? I don't really care what history books and wikipedia has to say. Considering my grandparents were from warleggan which only got connected to the road network in the 1950's yes I am prepared to believe that when they left in 1920 odd they spoke a language known as cornish

I think it’s great.
It’s an anthropological delight.

FrancisUrquhart

MaxPB said:

Foxy said:

Benpointer said:

Gallowgate said:

I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

Not around here they aren't.

The relative lack of decline in cases through March was surely entirely due to predicted increase in R following the schools re-opening and the increased testing associated with that?

Yes, there has been an uptick in case numbers in my part of the world too.

https://twitter.com/CovidLeics/status/1377665999403687940?s=19

Leicester has had this problem literally all year. I wonder why it's been so bad there when comparable demographic areas in London like Brent and Harrow haven't had anything like these same problems.

East Midlands, North West and small area in NE have basically had problems for 6+ months. Never really going away.

Benpointer

Gallowgate said:

Benpointer said:

Gallowgate said:

I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

Not around here they aren't.

That's what you think.

But you, not being based here, know better?

Andy_JS

Cookie said:

On the subject of Hiraeth: I am no expert, but the Welsh language has some lovely concepts. I'm particularly fond of Gwlad (which as I understand it roughly translates as the land which one feels an emotional connection to as home) and Hiraeth, particularly in its sense as a longing for Gwlad.
My own particular Gwlad is most of the North of England. For nine years I lived in Nottingham. It seems churlish to complain about being too far south when it was, what, fifty miles at most south of where I was born, but I felt Hiraeth often; and the pleaaure of arriving in my Gwlad was always tempered by the ache that it was a visit, and soon I would be leaving again.
Eventually I moved back to Manchester. I remember arriving at Piccadilly station a few weeks aftwr moving, after a day at work; ten to six on a sunny September evening. There was a big screen at Piccadilly which was showing a weather map of the North of England roughly from Chester in the south west to Newcastle in the north east. Improbably, across the whole of this area the map showed nothing but sun. I felt a momentary pang of Hiraeth, before remembering that this was home once more; I had returned to my Gwlad and could put the ache of being away in the past.

I should emphasise that Nottingham was fine. It just wasn't Gwlad.

With apologies of I have misunderstood either concept!

Nottingham is in the Midlands, not the North.

Pagan2

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

Cookie said:

On the subject of Hiraeth: I am no expert, but the Welsh language has some lovely concepts. I'm particularly fond of Gwlad (which as I understand it roughly translates as the land which one feels an emotional connection to as home) and Hiraeth, particularly in its sense as a longing for Gwlad.
My own particular Gwlad is most of the North of England. For nine years I lived in Nottingham. It seems churlish to complain about being too far south when it was, what, fifty miles at most south of where I was born, but I felt Hiraeth often; and the pleaaure of arriving in my Gwlad was always tempered by the ache that it was a visit, and soon I would be leaving again.
Eventually I moved back to Manchester. I remember arriving at Piccadilly station a few weeks aftwr moving, after a day at work; ten to six on a sunny September evening. There was a big screen at Piccadilly which was showing a weather map of the North of England roughly from Chester in the south west to Newcastle in the north east. Improbably, across the whole of this area the map showed nothing but sun. I felt a momentary pang of Hiraeth, before remembering that this was home once more; I had returned to my Gwlad and could put the ache of being aw

I should emphasise that Nottingham was fine. It just wasn't Gwlad.

With apologies of I have misunderstood either concept!

is it possible to have a Hiraeth for a Gwlad where you have never lived?

I have experienced this in parts of east or southern Africa, the peculiar smell of the soil, around the dry heat of twilight, that ebbs away into marvellous darkness. It just feels right.

I guess you could argue this is a Hiraeth of the DNA. We evolved for so many 100,000s of years, on the plains and plateaux of east and south Africa. The human soul feels at home there

Yet I have also felt a Hiraeth in the Mediterranean, especially Greece. It churns some primordial yearning to come back. I don't get it in Spain or southern France or even Italy (lovely as they are). But in Greece, yes.

Strange

The only other place that evokes Hiraeth, for me, is London. Especially Regent's Park. Or Charlotte Street on a sunny day

I thought you were Cornish.
I may be confusing you with someone else.

Admits to being cornish so maybe me

Yes, I know you’re Cornish.

Indeed, you’re a native a Cornish speaker, despite what it says in all the history books (and Wikipedia).

(I don’t particularly doubt you, but it’s an astonishing disclosure).

Shrugs all I can tell you is I learnt cornish and english off my parents and my grandparents basically only spoke a language they called cornish, what the hell am I meant to call it? I don't really care what history books and wikipedia has to say. Considering my grandparents were from warleggan which only got connected to the road network in the 1950's yes I am prepared to believe that when they left in 1920 odd they spoke a language known as cornish

I think it’s great.
It’s an anthropological delight.

Maybe those historians should have gone and talked to my granfer then

Foxy

Gardenwalker said:

I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

Fine by me. If the vaccines don't work (extremely unlikely) then we just have to get on with it. I think there will be some permanent changes, I don't expect to wear a suit again at work etc but not a lot more.

Gallowgate

Benpointer said:

Gallowgate said:

Benpointer said:

Gallowgate said:

I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

Not around here they aren't.

That's what you think.

But you, not being based here, know better?

I find it hard to believe that everybody I know is breaking the rules and everybody on my street is breaking the rules but everyone in your area is sticking to them rigidly.

Pagan2

Foxy said:

Gardenwalker said:

I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

Fine by me. If the vaccines don't work (extremely unlikely) then we just have to get on with it. I think there will be some permanent changes, I don't expect to wear a suit again at work etc but not a lot more.

One of the nice things about wfh I dont expect to have to wear clothes at work

FrancisUrquhart

CorrectHorseBattery said:

I am increasingly confident that by the end of the summer we’ll be back to normal

Depends if the government allow foreign summer holidays and what new variants might be brought back.

Benpointer

Gardenwalker said:

Mexicanpete said:

Gardenwalker said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

ydoethur said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Mexicanpete said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Very nice thread header, boyo!

I have lived in Wales since 1986. Both my parents were first language Welsh speakers. The only Welsh people I have ever heard say boyo are the actors Windsor Davies and Richard Davies. Both presumably reading scripts written by English people.

You forgot about John Talfryn Thomas in Dad's Army.

Same scriptwriters, of course...

Nogood Boyo shall live forever more in Llaregub.

Llareggub.

You are right, Dylan Thomas used it in UMW.

His most dislikeable work.

And yet the one everyone knows (and seems to love).

A Child's Christmas in Wales?

Alright alright.

I’m more of an RS Thomas fan, anyway.

Have you got a favourite?

Someone posted The Peasant on here last week which I was not familiar with - I thought it was brilliant.

isam

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

Cookie said:

On the subject of Hiraeth: I am no expert, but the Welsh language has some lovely concepts. I'm particularly fond of Gwlad (which as I understand it roughly translates as the land which one feels an emotional connection to as home) and Hiraeth, particularly in its sense as a longing for Gwlad.
My own particular Gwlad is most of the North of England. For nine years I lived in Nottingham. It seems churlish to complain about being too far south when it was, what, fifty miles at most south of where I was born, but I felt Hiraeth often; and the pleaaure of arriving in my Gwlad was always tempered by the ache that it was a visit, and soon I would be leaving again.
Eventually I moved back to Manchester. I remember arriving at Piccadilly station a few weeks aftwr moving, after a day at work; ten to six on a sunny September evening. There was a big screen at Piccadilly which was showing a weather map of the North of England roughly from Chester in the south west to Newcastle in the north east. Improbably, across the whole of this area the map showed nothing but sun. I felt a momentary pang of Hiraeth, before remembering that this was home once more; I had returned to my Gwlad and could put the ache of being aw

I should emphasise that Nottingham was fine. It just wasn't Gwlad.

With apologies of I have misunderstood either concept!

is it possible to have a Hiraeth for a Gwlad where you have never lived?

I have experienced this in parts of east or southern Africa, the peculiar smell of the soil, around the dry heat of twilight, that ebbs away into marvellous darkness. It just feels right.

I guess you could argue this is a Hiraeth of the DNA. We evolved for so many 100,000s of years, on the plains and plateaux of east and south Africa. The human soul feels at home there

Yet I have also felt a Hiraeth in the Mediterranean, especially Greece. It churns some primordial yearning to come back. I don't get it in Spain or southern France or even Italy (lovely as they are). But in Greece, yes.

Strange

The only other place that evokes Hiraeth, for me, is London. Especially Regent's Park. Or Charlotte Street on a sunny day

I thought you were Cornish.
I may be confusing you with someone else.

Admits to being cornish so maybe me

Yes, I know you’re Cornish.

Indeed, you’re a native a Cornish speaker, despite what it says in all the history books (and Wikipedia).

(I don’t particularly doubt you, but it’s an astonishing disclosure).

Shrugs all I can tell you is I learnt cornish and english off my parents and my grandparents basically only spoke a language they called cornish, what the hell am I meant to call it? I don't really care what history books and wikipedia has to say. Considering my grandparents were from warleggan which only got connected to the road network in the 1950's yes I am prepared to believe that when they left in 1920 odd they spoke a language known as cornish

I think it’s great.
It’s an anthropological delight.

Sky rockets in flight!

Leon

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

MaxPB said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

BBC News - Covid: Passports showing vaccine status would be 'time-limited', says minister
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56634176

Sounds like government can kicking....no decision until May, after a review. Convenient way of U-turning?

It’s a nudge thing. It’s so blatantly obvious. Get the reluctant suffering from a case of FOMO if they don’t get vaccinated.

Yes, it's a nudge. It's working in Israel

Is it? Their new first dose vaccination rate is now just 0.04% per day, about 4k new recipients. Israel has the capability to vaccinate 2% of its total population in a single day. I'd suggest that the vaccine passport has made precisely no difference because the people who are refusing it (Orthodox Jews and Arabs) don't interact with wider society anyway so don't really lose anything by not having a vaccine passport. The same will be true here as the major refusal group is now conservative Muslims who don't really interact with wider society anyway. Vaccine passports will do nothing to get them to take it. Young people will have a 95%+ uptake rate mostly because it's the only way to travel, whether that's to do a gap yah or get battered in Magaluf.

AIUI it is mopping up the last few hold-outs in the Israeli young. Yes they have a big problem with orthodox jews and arabs who will always say no, until, perhaps, they start dying in another wave

Britain should hopefully do better, and a nudge would help. As I say I believe the vaxport should be voluntary for businesses and sectors inside our domestic economy, tho I expect lots of firms to say Yes, as they believe it will give vital reassurance to nervous customers. Just as it is with airlines.

Let the market decide

OK now I am going to watch Vikings. The last series! *Sob*

But the point is that we're already on track for 95% uptake, we're going to be the number one country in the world for vaccine uptake already. These measures are unnecessary and those last 5% will either get natural immunity at some point, die or get the J&J jab three weeks before they want to go and visit family in Pakistan. A domestic vaccine passport won't achieve anything, which is why it's now being gently rowed back. Yesterday they said no pubs and restaurants, today they're saying actually we won't have it for test events anyway, we've also seen they're now talking about a sunset clause and not introducing them until every adult in the country has been offered it.

It feels like Gove and Hancock decided to try and bounce Boris and the rest of the Cabinet into accepting them and now the government is once again having to row it all back just like they did whe Hancock was gleefully telling everyone unlockdown would be based on case rates rather than the hospitalisation rate.

I wanted a voluntary Vaxport, you wanted nothing at all, it looks like we will both be pleased, in different ways, so let us pluck the lute of concord and quietly celebrate

Gardenwalker

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

Cookie said:

On the subject of Hiraeth: I am no expert, but the Welsh language has some lovely concepts. I'm particularly fond of Gwlad (which as I understand it roughly translates as the land which one feels an emotional connection to as home) and Hiraeth, particularly in its sense as a longing for Gwlad.
My own particular Gwlad is most of the North of England. For nine years I lived in Nottingham. It seems churlish to complain about being too far south when it was, what, fifty miles at most south of where I was born, but I felt Hiraeth often; and the pleaaure of arriving in my Gwlad was always tempered by the ache that it was a visit, and soon I would be leaving again.
Eventually I moved back to Manchester. I remember arriving at Piccadilly station a few weeks aftwr moving, after a day at work; ten to six on a sunny September evening. There was a big screen at Piccadilly which was showing a weather map of the North of England roughly from Chester in the south west to Newcastle in the north east. Improbably, across the whole of this area the map showed nothing but sun. I felt a momentary pang of Hiraeth, before remembering that this was home once more; I had returned to my Gwlad and could put the ache of being aw

I should emphasise that Nottingham was fine. It just wasn't Gwlad.

With apologies of I have misunderstood either concept!

is it possible to have a Hiraeth for a Gwlad where you have never lived?

I have experienced this in parts of east or southern Africa, the peculiar smell of the soil, around the dry heat of twilight, that ebbs away into marvellous darkness. It just feels right.

I guess you could argue this is a Hiraeth of the DNA. We evolved for so many 100,000s of years, on the plains and plateaux of east and south Africa. The human soul feels at home there

Yet I have also felt a Hiraeth in the Mediterranean, especially Greece. It churns some primordial yearning to come back. I don't get it in Spain or southern France or even Italy (lovely as they are). But in Greece, yes.

Strange

The only other place that evokes Hiraeth, for me, is London. Especially Regent's Park. Or Charlotte Street on a sunny day

I thought you were Cornish.
I may be confusing you with someone else.

Admits to being cornish so maybe me

Yes, I know you’re Cornish.

Indeed, you’re a native a Cornish speaker, despite what it says in all the history books (and Wikipedia).

(I don’t particularly doubt you, but it’s an astonishing disclosure).

Shrugs all I can tell you is I learnt cornish and english off my parents and my grandparents basically only spoke a language they called cornish, what the hell am I meant to call it? I don't really care what history books and wikipedia has to say. Considering my grandparents were from warleggan which only got connected to the road network in the 1950's yes I am prepared to believe that when they left in 1920 odd they spoke a language known as cornish

I think it’s great.
It’s an anthropological delight.

Maybe those historians should have gone and talked to my granfer then

Perhaps, as you suggest, they couldn’t get road access.

Mexicanpete

Gardenwalker said:

Mexicanpete said:

Gardenwalker said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

ydoethur said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Mexicanpete said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Very nice thread header, boyo!

I have lived in Wales since 1986. Both my parents were first language Welsh speakers. The only Welsh people I have ever heard say boyo are the actors Windsor Davies and Richard Davies. Both presumably reading scripts written by English people.

You forgot about John Talfryn Thomas in Dad's Army.

Same scriptwriters, of course...

Nogood Boyo shall live forever more in Llaregub.

Llareggub.

You are right, Dylan Thomas used it in UMW.

His most dislikeable work.

And yet the one everyone knows (and seems to love).

A Child's Christmas in Wales?

Alright alright.

I’m more of an RS Thomas fan, anyway.

Surely a typo? Please allow me to correct you. "I'm more of a Sean Thomas fan anyway"

Gardenwalker

isam said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

Cookie said:

On the subject of Hiraeth: I am no expert, but the Welsh language has some lovely concepts. I'm particularly fond of Gwlad (which as I understand it roughly translates as the land which one feels an emotional connection to as home) and Hiraeth, particularly in its sense as a longing for Gwlad.
My own particular Gwlad is most of the North of England. For nine years I lived in Nottingham. It seems churlish to complain about being too far south when it was, what, fifty miles at most south of where I was born, but I felt Hiraeth often; and the pleaaure of arriving in my Gwlad was always tempered by the ache that it was a visit, and soon I would be leaving again.
Eventually I moved back to Manchester. I remember arriving at Piccadilly station a few weeks aftwr moving, after a day at work; ten to six on a sunny September evening. There was a big screen at Piccadilly which was showing a weather map of the North of England roughly from Chester in the south west to Newcastle in the north east. Improbably, across the whole of this area the map showed nothing but sun. I felt a momentary pang of Hiraeth, before remembering that this was home once more; I had returned to my Gwlad and could put the ache of being aw

I should emphasise that Nottingham was fine. It just wasn't Gwlad.

With apologies of I have misunderstood either concept!

is it possible to have a Hiraeth for a Gwlad where you have never lived?

I have experienced this in parts of east or southern Africa, the peculiar smell of the soil, around the dry heat of twilight, that ebbs away into marvellous darkness. It just feels right.

I guess you could argue this is a Hiraeth of the DNA. We evolved for so many 100,000s of years, on the plains and plateaux of east and south Africa. The human soul feels at home there

Yet I have also felt a Hiraeth in the Mediterranean, especially Greece. It churns some primordial yearning to come back. I don't get it in Spain or southern France or even Italy (lovely as they are). But in Greece, yes.

Strange

The only other place that evokes Hiraeth, for me, is London. Especially Regent's Park. Or Charlotte Street on a sunny day

I thought you were Cornish.
I may be confusing you with someone else.

Admits to being cornish so maybe me

Yes, I know you’re Cornish.

Indeed, you’re a native a Cornish speaker, despite what it says in all the history books (and Wikipedia).

(I don’t particularly doubt you, but it’s an astonishing disclosure).

Shrugs all I can tell you is I learnt cornish and english off my parents and my grandparents basically only spoke a language they called cornish, what the hell am I meant to call it? I don't really care what history books and wikipedia has to say. Considering my grandparents were from warleggan which only got connected to the road network in the 1950's yes I am prepared to believe that when they left in 1920 odd they spoke a language known as cornish

I think it’s great.
It’s an anthropological delight.

Sky rockets in flight!

Haha.

That song is inextricably linked to “Anchorman”.

FrancisUrquhart

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1378811409383972865?s=19

HYUFD

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless

RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999

Leon

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

Cookie said:

On the subject of Hiraeth: I am no expert, but the Welsh language has some lovely concepts. I'm particularly fond of Gwlad (which as I understand it roughly translates as the land which one feels an emotional connection to as home) and Hiraeth, particularly in its sense as a longing for Gwlad.
My own particular Gwlad is most of the North of England. For nine years I lived in Nottingham. It seems churlish to complain about being too far south when it was, what, fifty miles at most south of where I was born, but I felt Hiraeth often; and the pleaaure of arriving in my Gwlad was always tempered by the ache that it was a visit, and soon I would be leaving again.
Eventually I moved back to Manchester. I remember arriving at Piccadilly station a few weeks aftwr moving, after a day at work; ten to six on a sunny September evening. There was a big screen at Piccadilly which was showing a weather map of the North of England roughly from Chester in the south west to Newcastle in the north east. Improbably, across the whole of this area the map showed nothing but sun. I felt a momentary pang of Hiraeth, before remembering that this was home once more; I had returned to my Gwlad and could put the ache of being aw

I should emphasise that Nottingham was fine. It just wasn't Gwlad.

With apologies of I have misunderstood either concept!

is it possible to have a Hiraeth for a Gwlad where you have never lived?

I have experienced this in parts of east or southern Africa, the peculiar smell of the soil, around the dry heat of twilight, that ebbs away into marvellous darkness. It just feels right.

I guess you could argue this is a Hiraeth of the DNA. We evolved for so many 100,000s of years, on the plains and plateaux of east and south Africa. The human soul feels at home there

Yet I have also felt a Hiraeth in the Mediterranean, especially Greece. It churns some primordial yearning to come back. I don't get it in Spain or southern France or even Italy (lovely as they are). But in Greece, yes.

Strange

The only other place that evokes Hiraeth, for me, is London. Especially Regent's Park. Or Charlotte Street on a sunny day

I thought you were Cornish.
I may be confusing you with someone else.

Admits to being cornish so maybe me

Yes, I know you’re Cornish.

Indeed, you’re a native a Cornish speaker, despite what it says in all the history books (and Wikipedia).

(I don’t particularly doubt you, but it’s an astonishing disclosure).

Shrugs all I can tell you is I learnt cornish and english off my parents and my grandparents basically only spoke a language they called cornish, what the hell am I meant to call it? I don't really care what history books and wikipedia has to say. Considering my grandparents were from warleggan which only got connected to the road network in the 1950's yes I am prepared to believe that when they left in 1920 odd they spoke a language known as cornish

Thing is, it is so unlikely and incredible it makes you a global linguistic celebrity.

It's not the kind of claim that can be gently ignored OR easily accepted, because if it is true it is amazing and fabulous. And I hope it is true!

If you are a true Cornishman you really DO need to get in touch with a language expert at Falmouth or Exeter universities. It is your Cornish duty! Kernow bys vyken

FrancisUrquhart

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1378805676143677448?s=19

Pagan2

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

Cookie said:

On the subject of Hiraeth: I am no expert, but the Welsh language has some lovely concepts. I'm particularly fond of Gwlad (which as I understand it roughly translates as the land which one feels an emotional connection to as home) and Hiraeth, particularly in its sense as a longing for Gwlad.
My own particular Gwlad is most of the North of England. For nine years I lived in Nottingham. It seems churlish to complain about being too far south when it was, what, fifty miles at most south of where I was born, but I felt Hiraeth often; and the pleaaure of arriving in my Gwlad was always tempered by the ache that it was a visit, and soon I would be leaving again.
Eventually I moved back to Manchester. I remember arriving at Piccadilly station a few weeks aftwr moving, after a day at work; ten to six on a sunny September evening. There was a big screen at Piccadilly which was showing a weather map of the North of England roughly from Chester in the south west to Newcastle in the north east. Improbably, across the whole of this area the map showed nothing but sun. I felt a momentary pang of Hiraeth, before remembering that this was home once more; I had returned to my Gwlad and could put the ache of being aw

I should emphasise that Nottingham was fine. It just wasn't Gwlad.

With apologies of I have misunderstood either concept!

is it possible to have a Hiraeth for a Gwlad where you have never lived?

I have experienced this in parts of east or southern Africa, the peculiar smell of the soil, around the dry heat of twilight, that ebbs away into marvellous darkness. It just feels right.

I guess you could argue this is a Hiraeth of the DNA. We evolved for so many 100,000s of years, on the plains and plateaux of east and south Africa. The human soul feels at home there

Yet I have also felt a Hiraeth in the Mediterranean, especially Greece. It churns some primordial yearning to come back. I don't get it in Spain or southern France or even Italy (lovely as they are). But in Greece, yes.

Strange

The only other place that evokes Hiraeth, for me, is London. Especially Regent's Park. Or Charlotte Street on a sunny day

I thought you were Cornish.
I may be confusing you with someone else.

Admits to being cornish so maybe me

Yes, I know you’re Cornish.

Indeed, you’re a native a Cornish speaker, despite what it says in all the history books (and Wikipedia).

(I don’t particularly doubt you, but it’s an astonishing disclosure).

Shrugs all I can tell you is I learnt cornish and english off my parents and my grandparents basically only spoke a language they called cornish, what the hell am I meant to call it? I don't really care what history books and wikipedia has to say. Considering my grandparents were from warleggan which only got connected to the road network in the 1950's yes I am prepared to believe that when they left in 1920 odd they spoke a language known as cornish

I think it’s great.
It’s an anthropological delight.

Maybe those historians should have gone and talked to my granfer then

Perhaps, as you suggest, they couldn’t get road access.

Well warleggan was always somewhat odd they had a vicar that had cardboard cutouts for a congregation after everyone boycotted him

MaxPB

Foxy said:

MaxPB said:

Foxy said:

Benpointer said:

Gallowgate said:

I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

Not around here they aren't.

The relative lack of decline in cases through March was surely entirely due to predicted increase in R following the schools re-opening and the increased testing associated with that?

Yes, there has been an uptick in case numbers in my part of the world too.

https://twitter.com/CovidLeics/status/1377665999403687940?s=19

Leicester has had this problem literally all year. I wonder why it's been so bad there when comparable demographic areas in London like Brent and Harrow haven't had anything like these same problems.

It's not just Leicester with all its edgy multiculturalism and poverty. Look at the figures for Hinckley and Bosworth, or Melton. Classic Shire Middle England localities. The Melton outbreak is a village cluster outside the town. The theory is that it is car sharing, but who knows?

It is odd though becuase Harrow, for example, has a very high proportion of Indians like Leicester and it is surrounded by pretty much White British areas as you describe but it hasn't had anything like the same case rate or death rate there or in the surrounding areas. I wonder whether it's because so many of the Indian families in Harrow heard about the horror stories coming out of Northwick Park hospital from relatives who worked there at the time. I know my parents were basically shit scared of seeing anyone after one of my cousins told them what it was like there.

Foxy

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Gardenwalker said:

I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

Fine by me. If the vaccines don't work (extremely unlikely) then we just have to get on with it. I think there will be some permanent changes, I don't expect to wear a suit again at work etc but not a lot more.

One of the nice things about wfh I dont expect to have to wear clothes at work

Yes, I am a rarity amongst British men, I like to dress well. It is one of my harmless pleasures to turnout in suit and tie, shoes polished and in a contemporary style. I would not pass muster in Italy, but in England it is easy.

Sunil_Prasannan

Benpointer said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Remember when we used to wonder about low rates in India...well they definitely have it bad now. I doubt their testing even scratches the surface.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1378803527615721481?s=19

I mentioned this upthread - it's actually 103,793 cases:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/

Thanks for that correction... makes a big difference.

Best to look at the actual data rather some random Tweets!

Mexicanpete

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless

RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999

RT is the best Welsh Conservative Leader since the last but one Welsh Conservatives Leader.

Gardenwalker

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless

RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999

Doesn’t say much for Welsh Conservatives.

HYUFD

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

CatMan said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

williamglenn said:

Gardenwalker said:

CarlottaVance said:

The British government in general has been very well behaved, especially given the provocation:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1378784539884027908?s=20

Although not “recent months”, Priti Patel’s assertion that we could starve out the Irish if they were recalcitrant was a “keeper”.

At the time she was a backbencher. Ursula von der Leyen actually tried to block the UK’s vaccine deliveries on a day when when over 1000 people died.

Who’s defending UdL?

The best that can be said for her is that she turns out well.

And she’s had an enormous number of children while building a political career which must require phenomenal powers of time management.

Oh, and Priti may have been a “backbencher” but is now holds the #4 position in the land. Her demented ravings, sadly, carry weight.

You won't like it much when she becomes PM then?

Priti Patel voted against Gay Marriage. In my opinion that tells me everything you need to know about her and what she would do if she ever became PM (God help us).

More Tory MPs voted against gay marriage than for in 2013, it was the majority of LD and Labour MPs combined with the pro gay marriage minority of Tory MPs in the Coalition years which got it passed

And you are proud of that are you

At the time I favoured civil partnerships over marriage but now I am OK with gay marriage as long as places of worship are free to choose whether to hold them and only registry offices have to conduct them.

You would also expect the Conservative Party to be more socially conservative than the Liberal Democrats and Labour

Gardenwalker

Mexicanpete said:

Gardenwalker said:

Mexicanpete said:

Gardenwalker said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

ydoethur said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Mexicanpete said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Very nice thread header, boyo!

I have lived in Wales since 1986. Both my parents were first language Welsh speakers. The only Welsh people I have ever heard say boyo are the actors Windsor Davies and Richard Davies. Both presumably reading scripts written by English people.

You forgot about John Talfryn Thomas in Dad's Army.

Same scriptwriters, of course...

Nogood Boyo shall live forever more in Llaregub.

Llareggub.

You are right, Dylan Thomas used it in UMW.

His most dislikeable work.

And yet the one everyone knows (and seems to love).

A Child's Christmas in Wales?

Alright alright.

I’m more of an RS Thomas fan, anyway.

Surely a typo? Please allow me to correct you. "I'm more of a Sean Thomas fan anyway"

Never read him, nor his compatriot SK Tremayne.

Pagan2

Foxy said:

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Gardenwalker said:

I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

Fine by me. If the vaccines don't work (extremely unlikely) then we just have to get on with it. I think there will be some permanent changes, I don't expect to wear a suit again at work etc but not a lot more.

One of the nice things about wfh I dont expect to have to wear clothes at work

Yes, I am a rarity amongst British men, I like to dress well. It is one of my harmless pleasures to turnout in suit and tie, shoes polished and in a contemporary style. I would not pass muster in Italy, but in England it is easy.

Well just don't wear lycra or crop tops when you weigh twenty stone and you are more elegant than most english

Benpointer

Gallowgate said:

Benpointer said:

Gallowgate said:

Benpointer said:

Gallowgate said:

I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

Not around here they aren't.

That's what you think.

But you, not being based here, know better?

I find it hard to believe that everybody I know is breaking the rules and everybody on my street is breaking the rules but everyone in your area is sticking to them rigidly.

I didn't say everyone is sticking to the rules rigidly but I can tell you with absolute certainty that around here we do not have "everybody breaking the rules willy nilly". Most are keeping to the rules.

AnneJGP

CorrectHorseBattery said:

I am increasingly confident that by the end of the summer we’ll be back to normal

I'm hopeful but not confident. I also think we need to keep on the alert for the vaccine protection fading enough to let the virus get a grip again.

Andy_JS

AnneJGP said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

I am increasingly confident that by the end of the summer we’ll be back to normal

I'm hopeful but not confident. I also think we need to keep on the alert for the vaccine protection fading enough to let the virus get a grip again.

It all depends on how enthusiastic young people are in taking the vaccine. I'm a bit worried about it.

Black_Rook

Gardenwalker said:

I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

I am rather concerned that an entire year of this bullshit - mostly dominated by restrictions, reports of often horrendous death tolls, wearisome social isolation and a general all-around atmosphere of socio-economic despair - has really damaged a lot of people. Especially the old, who are most at risk of the illness and are also the Government's key voter demographic. There are an awful lot of people out there who are used to being afraid, used to being ordered about for their own safety, used to staying at home to protect the NHS, and are going to find it very difficult to go back to living a normal life. Some of them never will.

That creates a lot of incentive for politicians to behave extremely cautiously and to leave countermeasures in place. That also appeals both to the innate authoritarianism of most of them, as well as that of great swathes of the electorate.

When we get to the point that this epidemic is well and truly crushed, and can be seen obviously to have been crushed as well, then those of us who want to get on with life are liable to find ourselves being made to continue to labour under all sorts of impositions, in order to satisfy the need to assuage other peoples' irrational, trembling fear, or their desire for control.

It may yet be that we're rid of everything bar vaccine certs for international travel come June 21st, but somehow I doubt it.

Mexicanpete

Off topic

David Davis on the news. Very uncomfortable about peacetime id domestic passports. What a nob, for once Johnson is right

Benpointer

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Benpointer said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Remember when we used to wonder about low rates in India...well they definitely have it bad now. I doubt their testing even scratches the surface.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1378803527615721481?s=19

I mentioned this upthread - it's actually 103,793 cases:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/

Thanks for that correction... makes a big difference.

Best to look at the actual data rather some random Tweets!

Although in this case there's a vanishingly small chance that 'the actual data' is going to be correct.

isam

Gardenwalker said:

isam said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Pagan2 said:

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

Cookie said:

On the subject of Hiraeth: I am no expert, but the Welsh language has some lovely concepts. I'm particularly fond of Gwlad (which as I understand it roughly translates as the land which one feels an emotional connection to as home) and Hiraeth, particularly in its sense as a longing for Gwlad.
My own particular Gwlad is most of the North of England. For nine years I lived in Nottingham. It seems churlish to complain about being too far south when it was, what, fifty miles at most south of where I was born, but I felt Hiraeth often; and the pleaaure of arriving in my Gwlad was always tempered by the ache that it was a visit, and soon I would be leaving again.
Eventually I moved back to Manchester. I remember arriving at Piccadilly station a few weeks aftwr moving, after a day at work; ten to six on a sunny September evening. There was a big screen at Piccadilly which was showing a weather map of the North of England roughly from Chester in the south west to Newcastle in the north east. Improbably, across the whole of this area the map showed nothing but sun. I felt a momentary pang of Hiraeth, before remembering that this was home once more; I had returned to my Gwlad and could put the ache of being aw

I should emphasise that Nottingham was fine. It just wasn't Gwlad.

With apologies of I have misunderstood either concept!

is it possible to have a Hiraeth for a Gwlad where you have never lived?

I have experienced this in parts of east or southern Africa, the peculiar smell of the soil, around the dry heat of twilight, that ebbs away into marvellous darkness. It just feels right.

I guess you could argue this is a Hiraeth of the DNA. We evolved for so many 100,000s of years, on the plains and plateaux of east and south Africa. The human soul feels at home there

Yet I have also felt a Hiraeth in the Mediterranean, especially Greece. It churns some primordial yearning to come back. I don't get it in Spain or southern France or even Italy (lovely as they are). But in Greece, yes.

Strange

The only other place that evokes Hiraeth, for me, is London. Especially Regent's Park. Or Charlotte Street on a sunny day

I thought you were Cornish.
I may be confusing you with someone else.

Admits to being cornish so maybe me

Yes, I know you’re Cornish.

Indeed, you’re a native a Cornish speaker, despite what it says in all the history books (and Wikipedia).

(I don’t particularly doubt you, but it’s an astonishing disclosure).

Shrugs all I can tell you is I learnt cornish and english off my parents and my grandparents basically only spoke a language they called cornish, what the hell am I meant to call it? I don't really care what history books and wikipedia has to say. Considering my grandparents were from warleggan which only got connected to the road network in the 1950's yes I am prepared to believe that when they left in 1920 odd they spoke a language known as cornish

I think it’s great.
It’s an anthropological delight.

Sky rockets in flight!

Haha.

That song is inextricably linked to “Anchorman”.

Yes, it was quite an accurate cover version as it goes. Just listened to the original, can’t help but laugh

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless

RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999

Utter rubbish and shows just how out of touch you are about Wales

Any success will be because of Boris - RT Davies switches people off - ask any Welsh poster on here

Pagan2

Black_Rook said:

Gardenwalker said:

I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

I am rather concerned that an entire year of this bullshit - mostly dominated by restrictions, reports of often horrendous death tolls, wearisome social isolation and a general all-around atmosphere of socio-economic despair - has really damaged a lot of people. Especially the old, who are most at risk of the illness and are also the Government's key voter demographic. There are an awful lot of people out there who are used to being afraid, used to being ordered about for their own safety, used to staying at home to protect the NHS, and are going to find it very difficult to go back to living a normal life. Some of them never will.

That creates a lot of incentive for politicians to behave extremely cautiously and to leave countermeasures in place. That also appeals both to the innate authoritarianism of most of them, as well as that of great swathes of the electorate.

When we get to the point that this epidemic is well and truly crushed, and can be seen obviously to have been crushed as well, then those of us who want to get on with life are liable to find ourselves being made to continue to labour under all sorts of impositions, in order to satisfy the need to assuage other peoples' irrational, trembling fear, or their desire for control.

It may yet be that we're rid of everything bar vaccine certs for international travel come June 21st, but somehow I doubt it.

Put it this way if vaccines dont work and r is still >1 we have two choices

1) Open up and learn to live with it
2) Eternal lockdown for ever more

I would suggest 2 is not an option and there is no plan b to vaccines

Andy_JS

Gardenwalker said:

I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

We are in a minority at the moment, but public opinion is very fickle. People could suddenly change their mind almost overnight on this. We've seen it happen so many times before.

Gallowgate

Andy_JS said:

AnneJGP said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

I am increasingly confident that by the end of the summer we’ll be back to normal

I'm hopeful but not confident. I also think we need to keep on the alert for the vaccine protection fading enough to let the virus get a grip again.

It all depends on how enthusiastic young people are in taking the vaccine. I'm a bit worried about it.

Everyone at my uni who I'm in contact with in the age group 21-25 who have been offered the vaccine have enthusiastically taken it.

Also my girlfriend is 25 and all of her group of friends have either had the vaccine or are enthusiastic about having it.

I'm not particularly worried.

Pagan2

Andy_JS said:

Gardenwalker said:

I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

We are in a minority at the moment, but public opinion is very fickle. People could suddenly change their mind almost overnight on this. We've seen it happen so many times before.

Public opinion in my experience will be all for it until it starts to inconvenience them

MaxPB

Gardenwalker said:

I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

You're not alone mate. I can't wait until that day.