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Labour’s Hiraeth – politicalbetting.com

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  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    Utter rubbish and shows just how out of touch you are about Wales

    Any success will be because of Boris - RT Davies switches people off - ask any Welsh poster on here
    Why does he use the RT - is there another prominent Andrew Davies who is a politician? Even these small things can raise people's hackles and they can be looking for reasons to think the person is a bit of a fool.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Pagan2 said:

    I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

    No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

    The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

    But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

    I am rather concerned that an entire year of this bullshit - mostly dominated by restrictions, reports of often horrendous death tolls, wearisome social isolation and a general all-around atmosphere of socio-economic despair - has really damaged a lot of people. Especially the old, who are most at risk of the illness and are also the Government's key voter demographic. There are an awful lot of people out there who are used to being afraid, used to being ordered about for their own safety, used to staying at home to protect the NHS, and are going to find it very difficult to go back to living a normal life. Some of them never will.

    That creates a lot of incentive for politicians to behave extremely cautiously and to leave countermeasures in place. That also appeals both to the innate authoritarianism of most of them, as well as that of great swathes of the electorate.

    When we get to the point that this epidemic is well and truly crushed, and can be seen obviously to have been crushed as well, then those of us who want to get on with life are liable to find ourselves being made to continue to labour under all sorts of impositions, in order to satisfy the need to assuage other peoples' irrational, trembling fear, or their desire for control.

    It may yet be that we're rid of everything bar vaccine certs for international travel come June 21st, but somehow I doubt it.
    Put it this way if vaccines dont work and r is still >1 we have two choices

    1) Open up and learn to live with it
    2) Eternal lockdown for ever more

    I would suggest 2 is not an option and there is no plan b to vaccines
    It is surely clear to everyone now that vaccines DO work.

    Yes, there's a risk of a new vaccine-resistant covid variant coming along but the answer to that will obviously be a new vaccine variant.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    Utter rubbish and shows just how out of touch you are about Wales

    Any success will be because of Boris - RT Davies switches people off - ask any Welsh poster on here
    Why does he use the RT - is there another prominent Andrew Davies who is a politician? Even these small things can raise people's hackles and they can be looking for reasons to think the person is a bit of a fool.
    Yes - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Davies_(Labour_politician)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited April 2021

    ydoethur said:

    Very nice thread header, boyo!

    I have lived in Wales since 1986. Both my parents were first language Welsh speakers. The only Welsh people I have ever heard say boyo are the actors Windsor Davies and Richard Davies. Both presumably reading scripts written by English people.
    You forgot about John Talfryn Thomas in Dad's Army.
    Same scriptwriters, of course...
    Nogood Boyo shall live forever more in Llaregub.
    Llareggub.

    You are right, Dylan Thomas used it in UMW.

    His most dislikeable work.
    And yet the one everyone knows (and seems to love).
    A Child's Christmas in Wales?
    Alright alright.

    I’m more of an RS Thomas fan, anyway.
    Have you got a favourite?

    Someone posted The Peasant on here last week which I was not familiar with - I thought it was brilliant.
    I love the idea that he was both a fervent Welsh nationalist AND an Anglican priest.

    How about “The Welsh Hill Country”?
    Incredible sense of place.

    Too far for you to see
    The fluke and foot-rot and the fat maggot
    Gnawing the skin from the small bones,
    The sheep are grazing at Bwlch-y-Fedwen,
    Arranged romantically in the usual manner
    On a bleak background of bald stone.

    Too far for you to see
    The moss and the mould on the cold chimneys,
    The nettles growing through the cracked doors,
    The houses stand empty at Nant-yr-Eira,
    There are holes in the roofs that are thatched with sunlight,
    And the fields are reverting to the bare moor.

    Too far, too far to see
    The set of his eyes and the slow pthisis
    Wasting his frame under the ripped coat,
    There's a man still farming at Ty'n-y-Fawnog,
    Contributing grimly to the accepted pattern,
    The embryo music dead in his throat.

    I hope he is, but suspect he is not, studied enthusiastically in Welsh schools.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    Pagan2 said:

    I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

    No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

    The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

    But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

    I am rather concerned that an entire year of this bullshit - mostly dominated by restrictions, reports of often horrendous death tolls, wearisome social isolation and a general all-around atmosphere of socio-economic despair - has really damaged a lot of people. Especially the old, who are most at risk of the illness and are also the Government's key voter demographic. There are an awful lot of people out there who are used to being afraid, used to being ordered about for their own safety, used to staying at home to protect the NHS, and are going to find it very difficult to go back to living a normal life. Some of them never will.

    That creates a lot of incentive for politicians to behave extremely cautiously and to leave countermeasures in place. That also appeals both to the innate authoritarianism of most of them, as well as that of great swathes of the electorate.

    When we get to the point that this epidemic is well and truly crushed, and can be seen obviously to have been crushed as well, then those of us who want to get on with life are liable to find ourselves being made to continue to labour under all sorts of impositions, in order to satisfy the need to assuage other peoples' irrational, trembling fear, or their desire for control.

    It may yet be that we're rid of everything bar vaccine certs for international travel come June 21st, but somehow I doubt it.
    Put it this way if vaccines dont work and r is still >1 we have two choices

    1) Open up and learn to live with it
    2) Eternal lockdown for ever more

    I would suggest 2 is not an option and there is no plan b to vaccines
    It is surely clear to everyone now that vaccines DO work.

    Yes, there's a risk of a new vaccine-resistant covid variant coming along but the answer to that will obviously be a new vaccine variant.
    That's why COVID vaccine passports are stupid.

    When booster shots come along will I suddenly not be allowed in pubs if I haven't yet been offered the booster jab?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,922

    ydoethur said:

    Very nice thread header, boyo!

    I have lived in Wales since 1986. Both my parents were first language Welsh speakers. The only Welsh people I have ever heard say boyo are the actors Windsor Davies and Richard Davies. Both presumably reading scripts written by English people.
    You forgot about John Talfryn Thomas in Dad's Army.
    Same scriptwriters, of course...
    Nogood Boyo shall live forever more in Llaregub.
    Llareggub.

    You are right, Dylan Thomas used it in UMW.

    His most dislikeable work.
    And yet the one everyone knows (and seems to love).
    A Child's Christmas in Wales?
    Alright alright.

    I’m more of an RS Thomas fan, anyway.
    Surely a typo? Please allow me to correct you. "I'm more of a Sean Thomas fan anyway"
    The Phil Collins Secret was fantastic, as was The Spice Twins!
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited April 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    AnneJGP said:

    I am increasingly confident that by the end of the summer we’ll be back to normal

    I'm hopeful but not confident. I also think we need to keep on the alert for the vaccine protection fading enough to let the virus get a grip again.
    It all depends on how enthusiastic young people are in taking the vaccine. I'm a bit worried about it.
    Everyone at my uni who I'm in contact with in the age group 21-25 who have been offered the vaccine have enthusiastically taken it.

    Also my girlfriend is 25 and all of her group of friends have either had the vaccine or are enthusiastic about having it.

    I'm not particularly worried.
    That's reassuring, but nor does it surprise me. The polling evidence suggests that the UK is the most enthusiastic country in the world about vaccines, and I know that polls can be misleading but they aren't normally *that* off kilter.

    Based on what we have seen so far, it looks reasonable to assume something like 95% uptake amongst the over 50s and the clinically vulnerable by the time this is over (with much of the hesitancy concentrated in certain minority groups where determined efforts are underway to talk them around.) That being the case, we could afford to have 15% of fit under 50s refuse and uptake amongst adults as a whole would still be over 90% (the Phase One cohorts constituting more than half of all adults.)

    There's no particular reason at this stage to imagine that herd immunity will be torpedoed by lack of uptake amongst the young.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    Utter rubbish and shows just how out of touch you are about Wales

    Any success will be because of Boris - RT Davies switches people off - ask any Welsh poster on here
    Why does he use the RT - is there another prominent Andrew Davies who is a politician? Even these small things can raise people's hackles and they can be looking for reasons to think the person is a bit of a fool.
    Fair comment and he is just not right for the post
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    BBC News - Covid: Passports showing vaccine status would be 'time-limited', says minister
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56634176

    Sounds like government can kicking....no decision until May, after a review. Convenient way of U-turning?

    It’s a nudge thing. It’s so blatantly obvious. Get the reluctant suffering from a case of FOMO if they don’t get vaccinated.
    Yes, it's a nudge. It's working in Israel
    Is it? Their new first dose vaccination rate is now just 0.04% per day, about 4k new recipients. Israel has the capability to vaccinate 2% of its total population in a single day. I'd suggest that the vaccine passport has made precisely no difference because the people who are refusing it (Orthodox Jews and Arabs) don't interact with wider society anyway so don't really lose anything by not having a vaccine passport. The same will be true here as the major refusal group is now conservative Muslims who don't really interact with wider society anyway. Vaccine passports will do nothing to get them to take it. Young people will have a 95%+ uptake rate mostly because it's the only way to travel, whether that's to do a gap yah or get battered in Magaluf.
    AIUI it is mopping up the last few hold-outs in the Israeli young. Yes they have a big problem with orthodox jews and arabs who will always say no, until, perhaps, they start dying in another wave

    Britain should hopefully do better, and a nudge would help. As I say I believe the vaxport should be voluntary for businesses and sectors inside our domestic economy, tho I expect lots of firms to say Yes, as they believe it will give vital reassurance to nervous customers. Just as it is with airlines.

    Let the market decide

    OK now I am going to watch Vikings. The last series! *Sob*
    It turned to crap the last series, the final one is no better.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    Scott_xP said:
    This is Cameron’s government they’re talking about isn’t it?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    Andy_JS said:

    AnneJGP said:

    I am increasingly confident that by the end of the summer we’ll be back to normal

    I'm hopeful but not confident. I also think we need to keep on the alert for the vaccine protection fading enough to let the virus get a grip again.
    It all depends on how enthusiastic young people are in taking the vaccine. I'm a bit worried about it.
    Everyone at my uni who I'm in contact with in the age group 21-25 who have been offered the vaccine have enthusiastically taken it.

    Also my girlfriend is 25 and all of her group of friends have either had the vaccine or are enthusiastic about having it.

    I'm not particularly worried.
    That's reassuring, but nor does it surprise me. The polling evidence suggests that the UK is the most enthusiastic country in the world about vaccines, and I know that polls can be misleading but they aren't normally *that* off kilter.

    Based on what we have seen so far, it looks reasonable to assume something like 95% uptake amongst the over 50s and the clinically vulnerable by the time this is over (with much of the hesitancy concentrated in certain minority groups where determined efforts are underway to talk them around.) That being the case, we could afford to have 15% of fit under 50s refuse and uptake amongst adults as a whole would still be over 90% (the Phase One cohorts constituting more than half of all adults.)

    There's no particular reason at this stage to imagine that herd immunity will be torpedoed by lack of uptake amongst the young.
    Furthermore by the time people in their 20s are offered the jab their parents, half of their mates, and 80% of the country will have already had them so any safety concerns are likely to be alleviated
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    This will be a massive massive test for Starmer:


    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1378814199162359809/photo/1
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Pagan2 said:

    I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

    No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

    The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

    But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

    I am rather concerned that an entire year of this bullshit - mostly dominated by restrictions, reports of often horrendous death tolls, wearisome social isolation and a general all-around atmosphere of socio-economic despair - has really damaged a lot of people. Especially the old, who are most at risk of the illness and are also the Government's key voter demographic. There are an awful lot of people out there who are used to being afraid, used to being ordered about for their own safety, used to staying at home to protect the NHS, and are going to find it very difficult to go back to living a normal life. Some of them never will.

    That creates a lot of incentive for politicians to behave extremely cautiously and to leave countermeasures in place. That also appeals both to the innate authoritarianism of most of them, as well as that of great swathes of the electorate.

    When we get to the point that this epidemic is well and truly crushed, and can be seen obviously to have been crushed as well, then those of us who want to get on with life are liable to find ourselves being made to continue to labour under all sorts of impositions, in order to satisfy the need to assuage other peoples' irrational, trembling fear, or their desire for control.

    It may yet be that we're rid of everything bar vaccine certs for international travel come June 21st, but somehow I doubt it.
    Put it this way if vaccines dont work and r is still >1 we have two choices

    1) Open up and learn to live with it
    2) Eternal lockdown for ever more

    I would suggest 2 is not an option and there is no plan b to vaccines
    It seems fairly clear that vaccines do work. What isn't yet established is how long they work for, setting aside variants. There's also the issue of getting them rolled out globally.
  • Andy_JS said:

    AnneJGP said:

    I am increasingly confident that by the end of the summer we’ll be back to normal

    I'm hopeful but not confident. I also think we need to keep on the alert for the vaccine protection fading enough to let the virus get a grip again.
    It all depends on how enthusiastic young people are in taking the vaccine. I'm a bit worried about it.
    Everyone at my uni who I'm in contact with in the age group 21-25 who have been offered the vaccine have enthusiastically taken it.

    Also my girlfriend is 25 and all of her group of friends have either had the vaccine or are enthusiastic about having it.

    I'm not particularly worried.
    On tonight's news it was the young who were in favour of vaccine passports rather than some recalcitrant oldies

    I hesitate to suggest, but I think some on here may recognise the sentiment
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184

    I hope people realise that cases are rapidly declining again, despite everybody breaking the rules willy nilly.

    Not around here they aren't.
    That's what you think.

    But you, not being based here, know better?
    I find it hard to believe that everybody I know is breaking the rules and everybody on my street is breaking the rules but everyone in your area is sticking to them rigidly.
    I see remarkably little rule bending in my neighbourhood or amongst my friends and family.
    A little, perhaps. But it's very marginal.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative Leader since the last but one Welsh Conservatives Leader.
    He will do better than Nick Bourne ever did in May, the best Nick Bourne got was 25% on the constituency vote and 22% on the list in 2011

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited April 2021
    MaxPB said:

    I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

    No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

    The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

    But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

    You're not alone mate. I can't wait until that day.
    Ok but someone upthread (with due respect to the poster) was talking about keeping masks on for bus trips.

    And a tiny, tiny part of my brain thought, oh - perhaps that would be safe for a while, but then I thought hold on; that’s absolute bollocks.

    I am entitled to my freedom to get on and off a bus without masking up. And there’s no good reason to stop me doing so much beyond May.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    Utter rubbish and shows just how out of touch you are about Wales

    Any success will be because of Boris - RT Davies switches people off - ask any Welsh poster on here
    Why does he use the RT - is there another prominent Andrew Davies who is a politician? Even these small things can raise people's hackles and they can be looking for reasons to think the person is a bit of a fool.
    Yes - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Davies_(Labour_politician)
    I think if I was RT, and it had been established that this other guy was Andrew Davies first, I'd have changed my name and gone by Robert. Or Andrew Tudor - voting for a Tudor to rule Wales would be novel.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587

    This will be a massive massive test for Starmer:


    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1378814199162359809/photo/1

    I suspect Johnson will back down besides being correct.

    If in the unlikely event that he doesn't the third wave can be blamed on Starmer undermining the Covid passport scheme.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited April 2021

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    Utter rubbish and shows just how out of touch you are about Wales

    Any success will be because of Boris - RT Davies switches people off - ask any Welsh poster on here
    Why does he use the RT - is there another prominent Andrew Davies who is a politician? Even these small things can raise people's hackles and they can be looking for reasons to think the person is a bit of a fool.
    Didn’t RT Davies write “It’s a Sin”, and much of the new “Who”?
  • Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited April 2021
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative Leader since the last but one Welsh Conservatives Leader.
    He will do better than Nick Bourne ever did in May, the best Nick Bourne got was 25% on the constituency vote and 22% on the list in 2011

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    You do not get it

    This has nothing to do with RT who is an embarrassment
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative Leader since the last but one Welsh Conservatives Leader.
    He will do better than Nick Bourne ever did in May, the best Nick Bourne got was 25% on the constituency vote and 22% on the list in 2011

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    Amazing the “Abolish” can get 7% of the vote. I can’t help but imagine them the very worst kind of knuckle-draggers.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    AnneJGP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

    No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

    The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

    But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

    I am rather concerned that an entire year of this bullshit - mostly dominated by restrictions, reports of often horrendous death tolls, wearisome social isolation and a general all-around atmosphere of socio-economic despair - has really damaged a lot of people. Especially the old, who are most at risk of the illness and are also the Government's key voter demographic. There are an awful lot of people out there who are used to being afraid, used to being ordered about for their own safety, used to staying at home to protect the NHS, and are going to find it very difficult to go back to living a normal life. Some of them never will.

    That creates a lot of incentive for politicians to behave extremely cautiously and to leave countermeasures in place. That also appeals both to the innate authoritarianism of most of them, as well as that of great swathes of the electorate.

    When we get to the point that this epidemic is well and truly crushed, and can be seen obviously to have been crushed as well, then those of us who want to get on with life are liable to find ourselves being made to continue to labour under all sorts of impositions, in order to satisfy the need to assuage other peoples' irrational, trembling fear, or their desire for control.

    It may yet be that we're rid of everything bar vaccine certs for international travel come June 21st, but somehow I doubt it.
    Put it this way if vaccines dont work and r is still >1 we have two choices

    1) Open up and learn to live with it
    2) Eternal lockdown for ever more

    I would suggest 2 is not an option and there is no plan b to vaccines
    It seems fairly clear that vaccines do work. What isn't yet established is how long they work for, setting aside variants. There's also the issue of getting them rolled out globally.
    On question 1, I can recall no suggestion from the scientific community that the protection provided will degrade within weeks, and I think we can expect a booster campaign in the Autumn, so I wouldn't be particularly concerned. Large-scale importation of disease from abroad can be dealt with via travel restrictions, which are a price worth paying for binning the apparatus of repression at home.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    Utter rubbish and shows just how out of touch you are about Wales

    Any success will be because of Boris - RT Davies switches people off - ask any Welsh poster on here
    Why does he use the RT - is there another prominent Andrew Davies who is a politician? Even these small things can raise people's hackles and they can be looking for reasons to think the person is a bit of a fool.
    Didn’t RT Davies write “It’s a Sin”, and much of the new “Who”?
    No, that was Tenant and Lowe and for the latter I'd imagine Pete Townshend.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    Well, he's sitting on the fence at the moment waiting to see which way the wind blows.
  • This will be a massive massive test for Starmer:


    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1378814199162359809/photo/1

    He seems to have withdrawn his opposition and certainly Lucy Powell endorsed them last time I saw her on Sky
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    edited April 2021

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    Well, he's sitting on the fence at the moment waiting to see which way the wind blows.
    To be fair it seems that Boris is doing the same.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    MaxPB said:

    I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

    No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

    The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

    But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

    You're not alone mate. I can't wait until that day.
    Ok but someone upthread (with due respect to the poster) was talking about keeping masks on for bus trips.

    And a tiny, tiny part of my brain thought, oh - perhaps that would be safe for a while, but then I thought hold on; that’s absolute bollocks.

    I am entitled to my freedom to get on and off a bus without masking up. And there’s no good reason to stop me doing so much beyond May.
    The same people who luxuriate about being at home 24/7 and love not seeing people outside of their own family ever again. Apparently we're all going to live like this in the future and if the human race ends due to lack of social contact then who cares. 🤷‍♂️
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    What’s the issue re: Pagan2 and Cornishness? That there are native Cornish speakers within living memory?

    It is true that the facts on wiki contradict this, but it also says that the facts are open to debate?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,075

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative Leader since the last but one Welsh Conservatives Leader.
    He will do better than Nick Bourne ever did in May, the best Nick Bourne got was 25% on the constituency vote and 22% on the list in 2011

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    Amazing the “Abolish” can get 7% of the vote. I can’t help but imagine them the very worst kind of knuckle-draggers.
    I dunno. If an Abolish Parliament Party ran for Westminster then I might be tempted. It would restrict political betting opportunities, but other than that...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative Leader since the last but one Welsh Conservatives Leader.
    He will do better than Nick Bourne ever did in May, the best Nick Bourne got was 25% on the constituency vote and 22% on the list in 2011

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    Amazing the “Abolish” can get 7% of the vote. I can’t help but imagine them the very worst kind of knuckle-draggers.
    Why? The referendum was only just won by Yes:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Welsh_devolution_referendum

    Hardly a surprise that there's support for abolishing it.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    MaxPB said:

    I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

    No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

    The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

    But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

    You're not alone mate. I can't wait until that day.
    Ok but someone upthread (with due respect to the poster) was talking about keeping masks on for bus trips.

    And a tiny, tiny part of my brain thought, oh - perhaps that would be safe for a while, but then I thought hold on; that’s absolute bollocks.

    I am entitled to my freedom to get on and off a bus without masking up. And there’s no good reason to stop me doing so much beyond May.
    I commented that I wouldn't object if we had to wear them on public transport for a while yet. Sure, you're entitled to your freedom to get on a bus without masking up. On balance, however, if it came to a choice between a mask and not being able to get on a bus because they're still running at half capacity, I'd go for the mask myself.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243
    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

    No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

    The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

    But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

    Fine by me. If the vaccines don't work (extremely unlikely) then we just have to get on with it. I think there will be some permanent changes, I don't expect to wear a suit again at work etc but not a lot more.
    One of the nice things about wfh I dont expect to have to wear clothes at work
    Yes, I am a rarity amongst British men, I like to dress well. It is one of my harmless pleasures to turnout in suit and tie, shoes polished and in a contemporary style. I would not pass muster in Italy, but in England it is easy.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wRHBLwpASw
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088

    ydoethur said:

    Very nice thread header, boyo!

    I have lived in Wales since 1986. Both my parents were first language Welsh speakers. The only Welsh people I have ever heard say boyo are the actors Windsor Davies and Richard Davies. Both presumably reading scripts written by English people.
    You forgot about John Talfryn Thomas in Dad's Army.
    Same scriptwriters, of course...
    Nogood Boyo shall live forever more in Llaregub.
    Llareggub.

    You are right, Dylan Thomas used it in UMW.

    His most dislikeable work.
    And yet the one everyone knows (and seems to love).
    A Child's Christmas in Wales?
    Alright alright.

    I’m more of an RS Thomas fan, anyway.
    Surely a typo? Please allow me to correct you. "I'm more of a Sean Thomas fan anyway"
    Never read him, nor his compatriot SK Tremayne.
    It’s ages since I went anywhere from Victoria Coach Station
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    edited April 2021

    AnneJGP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

    No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

    The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

    But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

    I am rather concerned that an entire year of this bullshit - mostly dominated by restrictions, reports of often horrendous death tolls, wearisome social isolation and a general all-around atmosphere of socio-economic despair - has really damaged a lot of people. Especially the old, who are most at risk of the illness and are also the Government's key voter demographic. There are an awful lot of people out there who are used to being afraid, used to being ordered about for their own safety, used to staying at home to protect the NHS, and are going to find it very difficult to go back to living a normal life. Some of them never will.

    That creates a lot of incentive for politicians to behave extremely cautiously and to leave countermeasures in place. That also appeals both to the innate authoritarianism of most of them, as well as that of great swathes of the electorate.

    When we get to the point that this epidemic is well and truly crushed, and can be seen obviously to have been crushed as well, then those of us who want to get on with life are liable to find ourselves being made to continue to labour under all sorts of impositions, in order to satisfy the need to assuage other peoples' irrational, trembling fear, or their desire for control.

    It may yet be that we're rid of everything bar vaccine certs for international travel come June 21st, but somehow I doubt it.
    Put it this way if vaccines dont work and r is still >1 we have two choices

    1) Open up and learn to live with it
    2) Eternal lockdown for ever more

    I would suggest 2 is not an option and there is no plan b to vaccines
    It seems fairly clear that vaccines do work. What isn't yet established is how long they work for, setting aside variants. There's also the issue of getting them rolled out globally.
    On question 1, I can recall no suggestion from the scientific community that the protection provided will degrade within weeks, and I think we can expect a booster campaign in the Autumn, so I wouldn't be particularly concerned. Large-scale importation of disease from abroad can be dealt with via travel restrictions, which are a price worth paying for binning the apparatus of repression at home.
    It's completely mental that the government are talking about the opposite. Permanent domestic restrictions with vaccine passports and an effectively open border which won't require proof of vaccination on entry.

    Once again we need a punch Grant Shapps in the face and kick him in the bollocks until the border is closed party.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184
    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative Leader since the last but one Welsh Conservatives Leader.
    He will do better than Nick Bourne ever did in May, the best Nick Bourne got was 25% on the constituency vote and 22% on the list in 2011

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    Amazing the “Abolish” can get 7% of the vote. I can’t help but imagine them the very worst kind of knuckle-draggers.
    Why? The referendum was only just won by Yes:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Welsh_devolution_referendum

    Hardly a surprise that there's support for abolishing it.
    And devolution has hardly beenan unqualified success in delivering tge great Welsh leap forward.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative Leader since the last but one Welsh Conservatives Leader.
    He will do better than Nick Bourne ever did in May, the best Nick Bourne got was 25% on the constituency vote and 22% on the list in 2011

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    The Yougov is as maybe.

    A Conservative victory will be down to the perception that Johnson vaccinated Wales and Drakeford closed the pubs. Perhaps without RT and his predecessor Paul, and in turn his predecessor RT, they would have a better chance at a majority and Government.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,153

    This will be a massive massive test for Starmer:


    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1378814199162359809/photo/1

    He seems to have withdrawn his opposition and certainly Lucy Powell endorsed them last time I saw her on Sky
    LDs are certain to oppose vaccine passports. Keir could do the same and show that he is capable of thinking differently to the government. But he probably won't.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

    No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

    The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

    But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

    I'm with you sir.

    We need to take back control of life from the public health obsessives.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    edited April 2021
    On vaccine passports, I would not lose any sleep if they were introduced but I think they will be quietly dropped for a number of reasons:

    - Vaccination rates are high.
    - Case numbers are very low and likely to stay low even as restrictions end*.
    - The fairness challenge for elderly, vulnerable and poorer members of society without a smart device.
    - The need to delay until everyone has been offered a vaccine.
    - The difficulty HMG will have in actually getting a vote through.

    (*Excepting an resistant covid variant - but in that case the vaccine on which the passport is based is worthless.)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative Leader since the last but one Welsh Conservatives Leader.
    He will do better than Nick Bourne ever did in May, the best Nick Bourne got was 25% on the constituency vote and 22% on the list in 2011

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    Amazing the “Abolish” can get 7% of the vote. I can’t help but imagine them the very worst kind of knuckle-draggers.
    Why? The referendum was only just won by Yes:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Welsh_devolution_referendum

    Hardly a surprise that there's support for abolishing it.
    And devolution has hardly beenan unqualified success in delivering tge great Welsh leap forward.
    Perhaps they need a proper electoral system; the current one is gamed to favour Labour.

    Second, it needs some real powers, otherwise it’s just a talking shop.

    Third, the Welsh actually need to vote as if they do want first class education and health systems. At present; they don’t seem fussed.

    Finally, I have seen some academic writing that suggests that Welsh devolution has improved Welsh GDP by a small amount; compared to the counter-factual. No, don’t ask me to find it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative Leader since the last but one Welsh Conservatives Leader.
    He will do better than Nick Bourne ever did in May, the best Nick Bourne got was 25% on the constituency vote and 22% on the list in 2011

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    Amazing the “Abolish” can get 7% of the vote. I can’t help but imagine them the very worst kind of knuckle-draggers.
    Why? The referendum was only just won by Yes:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Welsh_devolution_referendum

    Hardly a surprise that there's support for abolishing it.
    And devolution has hardly beenan unqualified success in delivering tge great Welsh leap forward.
    Perhaps they need a proper electoral system; the current one is gamed to favour Labour.

    Second, it needs some real powers, otherwise it’s just a talking shop.

    Third, the Welsh actually need to vote as if they do want first class education and health systems. At present; they don’t seem fussed.

    Finally, I have seen some academic writing that suggests that Welsh devolution has improved Welsh GDP by a small amount; compared to the counter-factual. No, don’t ask me to find it.
    There are a ton of powers devolved to the Welsh parliament, it's hardly a talking shop.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    This will be a massive massive test for Starmer:


    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1378814199162359809/photo/1

    He seems to have withdrawn his opposition and certainly Lucy Powell endorsed them last time I saw her on Sky
    I'm beginning to wonder if Labour's new strategy for winning an election is to copy Tory policy *exactly*, and then claim that they'd make a better fist of implementing it.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    They wouldn't, but can you not imagine Johnson claiming otherwise?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,075

    This will be a massive massive test for Starmer:


    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1378814199162359809/photo/1

    He seems to have withdrawn his opposition and certainly Lucy Powell endorsed them last time I saw her on Sky
    I'm beginning to wonder if Labour's new strategy for winning an election is to copy Tory policy *exactly*, and then claim that they'd make a better fist of implementing it.
    Strategy? They have a strategy? Who knew?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    A question no one has proposed an answer to. If the next wave is because of a fully vaccine resistant variant then how does the vaccine passport with now useless vaccine information stop the new variant from spreading?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    This will be a massive massive test for Starmer:


    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1378814199162359809/photo/1

    He seems to have withdrawn his opposition and certainly Lucy Powell endorsed them last time I saw her on Sky
    LDs are certain to oppose vaccine passports. Keir could do the same and show that he is capable of thinking differently to the government. But he probably won't.
    I think he probably has to with his voting coalition right now. Plus danger of losing liberal flank.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Just on the issue of levels of vaccination hesitancy which might be flying under the radar in the U.K. - figures intake up tend to be based on “those who have had a jab already, or will when offered”. If it is actually relevant to the coverage needed for herd immunity, I suspect that willingness to have a second jab may be reduced - specifically in the case of those who had bad reactions to the first one.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    RobD said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative Leader since the last but one Welsh Conservatives Leader.
    He will do better than Nick Bourne ever did in May, the best Nick Bourne got was 25% on the constituency vote and 22% on the list in 2011

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    Amazing the “Abolish” can get 7% of the vote. I can’t help but imagine them the very worst kind of knuckle-draggers.
    Why? The referendum was only just won by Yes:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Welsh_devolution_referendum

    Hardly a surprise that there's support for abolishing it.
    And devolution has hardly beenan unqualified success in delivering tge great Welsh leap forward.
    Perhaps they need a proper electoral system; the current one is gamed to favour Labour.

    Second, it needs some real powers, otherwise it’s just a talking shop.

    Third, the Welsh actually need to vote as if they do want first class education and health systems. At present; they don’t seem fussed.

    Finally, I have seen some academic writing that suggests that Welsh devolution has improved Welsh GDP by a small amount; compared to the counter-factual. No, don’t ask me to find it.
    There are a ton of powers devolved to the Welsh parliament, it's hardly a talking shop.
    Suffers from the same broad problems as Scotland: lots of administrative responsibility, comparatively little in the way of revenue raising.

    This, of course, could be solved by independence. Then the Welsh Parliament would control all the levers, and these kinds of arguments would end.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,265
    edited April 2021
    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    MaxPB said:

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    A question no one has proposed an answer to. If the next wave is because of a fully vaccine resistant variant then how does the vaccine passport with now useless vaccine information stop the new variant from spreading?
    The supporters of vaccine passports are largely basing it on irrational fears.

    Just the sort of thing that Charles Walker has talked about. A society living in fear. Very, very sad.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    The problem with Labour is that they've positioned themselves, quite reasonably, on the cautious side of the COVID debate. That was very much the right thing to do up to now.

    Unfortunately I think psychologically it is difficult for them to switch to the other side.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,075
    MaxPB said:

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    A question no one has proposed an answer to. If the next wave is because of a fully vaccine resistant variant then how does the vaccine passport with now useless vaccine information stop the new variant from spreading?
    Exactly.

    This is an increasingly authoritarian government, and it has a wide open flank for a party keen on personal freedoms and ancient British rights such as free assembly and protest.

    It may not be an easy electoral formula, and Labour has its own authoritarian streak, but it puts clear red water between the parties, and will grow in strength over time.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.

    Just watched Colette, which we recorded a couple of days ago on the BBC. Not bad.

    Watched The Sting (1973) off Google Play yesterday. Neither of us had ever seen it but had always meant to. A very good lockdown feelgood film.
  • RobD said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative Leader since the last but one Welsh Conservatives Leader.
    He will do better than Nick Bourne ever did in May, the best Nick Bourne got was 25% on the constituency vote and 22% on the list in 2011

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    Amazing the “Abolish” can get 7% of the vote. I can’t help but imagine them the very worst kind of knuckle-draggers.
    Why? The referendum was only just won by Yes:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Welsh_devolution_referendum

    Hardly a surprise that there's support for abolishing it.
    And devolution has hardly beenan unqualified success in delivering tge great Welsh leap forward.
    Perhaps they need a proper electoral system; the current one is gamed to favour Labour.

    Second, it needs some real powers, otherwise it’s just a talking shop.

    Third, the Welsh actually need to vote as if they do want first class education and health systems. At present; they don’t seem fussed.

    Finally, I have seen some academic writing that suggests that Welsh devolution has improved Welsh GDP by a small amount; compared to the counter-factual. No, don’t ask me to find it.
    There are a ton of powers devolved to the Welsh parliament, it's hardly a talking shop.
    Suffers from the same broad problems as Scotland: lots of administrative responsibility, comparatively little in the way of revenue raising.

    This, of course, could be solved by independence. Then the Welsh Parliament would control all the levers, and these kinds of arguments would end.

    It is not going to happen in Wales anyway

  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    RobD said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative Leader since the last but one Welsh Conservatives Leader.
    He will do better than Nick Bourne ever did in May, the best Nick Bourne got was 25% on the constituency vote and 22% on the list in 2011

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    Amazing the “Abolish” can get 7% of the vote. I can’t help but imagine them the very worst kind of knuckle-draggers.
    Why? The referendum was only just won by Yes:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Welsh_devolution_referendum

    Hardly a surprise that there's support for abolishing it.
    And devolution has hardly beenan unqualified success in delivering tge great Welsh leap forward.
    Perhaps they need a proper electoral system; the current one is gamed to favour Labour.

    Second, it needs some real powers, otherwise it’s just a talking shop.

    Third, the Welsh actually need to vote as if they do want first class education and health systems. At present; they don’t seem fussed.

    Finally, I have seen some academic writing that suggests that Welsh devolution has improved Welsh GDP by a small amount; compared to the counter-factual. No, don’t ask me to find it.
    There are a ton of powers devolved to the Welsh parliament, it's hardly a talking shop.
    Suffers from the same broad problems as Scotland: lots of administrative responsibility, comparatively little in the way of revenue raising.

    This, of course, could be solved by independence. Then the Welsh Parliament would control all the levers, and these kinds of arguments would end.
    Even ignoring all the other problems, how would an independent Wales overcome the existence of a hard border with England? (Which is of course a major issue for Sindy as well). Within the EU they would not be allowed to negotiate “special arrangements”.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    Duh?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.

    I posted the exact same recommendation a few hours ago! I thoroughly enjoyed it.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    Duh?
    If there is a third wave, it will be due to vaccine escape.

    Vaxports would have no impact at all...
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,631

    Pagan2 said:

    I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

    No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

    The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

    But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

    I am rather concerned that an entire year of this bullshit - mostly dominated by restrictions, reports of often horrendous death tolls, wearisome social isolation and a general all-around atmosphere of socio-economic despair - has really damaged a lot of people. Especially the old, who are most at risk of the illness and are also the Government's key voter demographic. There are an awful lot of people out there who are used to being afraid, used to being ordered about for their own safety, used to staying at home to protect the NHS, and are going to find it very difficult to go back to living a normal life. Some of them never will.

    That creates a lot of incentive for politicians to behave extremely cautiously and to leave countermeasures in place. That also appeals both to the innate authoritarianism of most of them, as well as that of great swathes of the electorate.

    When we get to the point that this epidemic is well and truly crushed, and can be seen obviously to have been crushed as well, then those of us who want to get on with life are liable to find ourselves being made to continue to labour under all sorts of impositions, in order to satisfy the need to assuage other peoples' irrational, trembling fear, or their desire for control.

    It may yet be that we're rid of everything bar vaccine certs for international travel come June 21st, but somehow I doubt it.
    Put it this way if vaccines dont work and r is still >1 we have two choices

    1) Open up and learn to live with it
    2) Eternal lockdown for ever more

    I would suggest 2 is not an option and there is no plan b to vaccines
    It is surely clear to everyone now that vaccines DO work.

    Yes, there's a risk of a new vaccine-resistant covid variant coming along but the answer to that will obviously be a new vaccine variant.
    I wasnt meaning they don't work I was supposing they dont work which is the only time vaxports even make a tiny amount of sense
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited April 2021
    alex_ said:

    RobD said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative Leader since the last but one Welsh Conservatives Leader.
    He will do better than Nick Bourne ever did in May, the best Nick Bourne got was 25% on the constituency vote and 22% on the list in 2011

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    Amazing the “Abolish” can get 7% of the vote. I can’t help but imagine them the very worst kind of knuckle-draggers.
    Why? The referendum was only just won by Yes:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Welsh_devolution_referendum

    Hardly a surprise that there's support for abolishing it.
    And devolution has hardly beenan unqualified success in delivering tge great Welsh leap forward.
    Perhaps they need a proper electoral system; the current one is gamed to favour Labour.

    Second, it needs some real powers, otherwise it’s just a talking shop.

    Third, the Welsh actually need to vote as if they do want first class education and health systems. At present; they don’t seem fussed.

    Finally, I have seen some academic writing that suggests that Welsh devolution has improved Welsh GDP by a small amount; compared to the counter-factual. No, don’t ask me to find it.
    There are a ton of powers devolved to the Welsh parliament, it's hardly a talking shop.
    Suffers from the same broad problems as Scotland: lots of administrative responsibility, comparatively little in the way of revenue raising.

    This, of course, could be solved by independence. Then the Welsh Parliament would control all the levers, and these kinds of arguments would end.
    Even ignoring all the other problems, how would an independent Wales overcome the existence of a hard border with England? (Which is of course a major issue for Sindy as well). Within the EU they would not be allowed to negotiate “special arrangements”.
    Wales voted for brexit anyway and independence is just a fantasy for a few led by Plaid

    There is no appetite in Wales for independence
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    MaxPB said:

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    A question no one has proposed an answer to. If the next wave is because of a fully vaccine resistant variant then how does the vaccine passport with now useless vaccine information stop the new variant from spreading?
    It doesn't. But no-one is suggesting vaccine certificates for that scenario.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    A question no one has proposed an answer to. If the next wave is because of a fully vaccine resistant variant then how does the vaccine passport with now useless vaccine information stop the new variant from spreading?
    Exactly.

    This is an increasingly authoritarian government, and it has a wide open flank for a party keen on personal freedoms and ancient British rights such as free assembly and protest.

    It may not be an easy electoral formula, and Labour has its own authoritarian streak, but it puts clear red water between the parties, and will grow in strength over time.

    Starmer seems too useless to oppose the government on this. The numbers clearly aren't there for the government in its own party with more and more people lining up against the idea. Starmer is looking at the 61% figure in the polls and following that crowd rather than leading by showing why they're a bad idea and will ultimately be useless against the big fear of variants.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    Twice this evening I have read “if the vaccines don’t work”.

    They do work. Provably so.

    Can we perhaps move on?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.

    I posted the exact same recommendation a few hours ago! I thoroughly enjoyed it.
    Thats the third recommendation I've heard for it. Will add to the watch list.

    Watched Industry last week. I'm sure its OTT but as a drama it was enjoyable. Cracking soundtrack too.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    MaxPB said:

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    A question no one has proposed an answer to. If the next wave is because of a fully vaccine resistant variant then how does the vaccine passport with now useless vaccine information stop the new variant from spreading?
    That's a big if. Far more likely surely is that a 3rd wave is spread through unvaccinated people mixing closely.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,075

    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.

    I have very been working a fair bit, but did watch The Assistant. A very good film, full of quiet menace and very topical.

    The original Star Trek is on Netflix too, including the original pilot. Very lame special effects and scenery by modern standards, but much better writing, characterisation and far reaching themes. Well worth a look.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    MaxPB said:

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    A question no one has proposed an answer to. If the next wave is because of a fully vaccine resistant variant then how does the vaccine passport with now useless vaccine information stop the new variant from spreading?
    It doesn't. But no-one is suggesting vaccine certificates for that scenario.
    What are they for then?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    MaxPB said:

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    A question no one has proposed an answer to. If the next wave is because of a fully vaccine resistant variant then how does the vaccine passport with now useless vaccine information stop the new variant from spreading?
    That's a big if. Far more likely surely is that a 3rd wave is spread through unvaccinated people mixing closely.
    Yeh. Thats why we have massive epidemics of measles, right?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    edited April 2021

    MaxPB said:

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    A question no one has proposed an answer to. If the next wave is because of a fully vaccine resistant variant then how does the vaccine passport with now useless vaccine information stop the new variant from spreading?
    That's a big if. Far more likely surely is that a 3rd wave is spread through unvaccinated people mixing closely.
    It's not going to be much of a 3rd wave when it's likely going to be less than 10% of the adult population, some of whom will already have antibodies or natural immunity.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    Utter rubbish and shows just how out of touch you are about Wales

    Any success will be because of Boris - RT Davies switches people off - ask any Welsh poster on here
    Why does he use the RT - is there another prominent Andrew Davies who is a politician? Even these small things can raise people's hackles and they can be looking for reasons to think the person is a bit of a fool.
    Yes - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Davies_(Labour_politician)
    I think if I was RT, and it had been established that this other guy was Andrew Davies first, I'd have changed my name and gone by Robert. Or Andrew Tudor - voting for a Tudor to rule Wales would be novel.

    Andrew Davies - Welsh Labour politician
    Andrew Davies - Writer of TV Pride and Prejudice and various other sexed up novels
    Russell T Davies - Son of Andrew (TV writer) and himself writer of Dr Who
    Andrew RT Davies - Leader of the Welsh Conservatives and maybe basking in the glow of his fellow namesakes

    I think I've got that right.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    Mortimer said:

    I want all covid restrictions, save perhaps vax certificates for overseas travel, gone by mid June.

    No masks; no “distanced dining”, nothing.

    The risk is literally vanishing in front of our eyes.

    But, It feels like I’m in a very small minority.

    I'm with you sir.

    We need to take back control of life from the public health obsessives.
    I wanted them gone by mid-June or earlier ... 2020.

    An unexpected letter has appeared in the BMJ from an NHS consultant

    https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n810/rr-14

    "Nevertheless, what I am currently struggling with is the failure to report the reality of the morbidity caused by our current vaccination program within the health service and staff population. The levels of sickness after vaccination is unprecedented and staff are getting very sick and some with neurological symptoms which is having a huge impact on the health service function. Even the young and healthy are off for days, some for weeks, and some requiring medical treatment. Whole teams are being taken out as they went to get vaccinated together."

    It doesn't surprise me in the slightest but I think if this gets into the MSM the public will feel they've had the wool pulled over their eyes. (They have, compared to other countries.)

    Patients should have been advised individually as far as possible how the risks stack up. Probably get the treatment if aged 75 and in poor health. But if aged 25 and healthy, the risk of serious injury from the vaccine is set to exceed the risk of serious illness from COVID-19 so it's stupid. The mortality risk from this virus rises steeply with advancing age, very different from flu.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.

    I've been filling in gaps in my daughter's film history. The Men Who Stare At Goats, and Master & Commander. She liked the former more than the latter.

    Hopefully tomorrow we will play wingspan with chocolate mini eggs.

    Every day is the same and we are slowly going mad. But I am knitting her jumper quickly.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    Foxy said:

    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.

    I have very been working a fair bit, but did watch The Assistant. A very good film, full of quiet menace and very topical.

    The original Star Trek is on Netflix too, including the original pilot. Very lame special effects and scenery by modern standards, but much better writing, characterisation and far reaching themes. Well worth a look.
    Oh also, World War Z.

    Cracking film. Based on a viral pandemic!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    edited April 2021
    DougSeal said:

    BBC News - Covid: Passports showing vaccine status would be 'time-limited', says minister
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56634176

    Sounds like government can kicking....no decision until May, after a review. Convenient way of U-turning?

    It’s a nudge thing. It’s so blatantly obvious. Get the reluctant suffering from a case of FOMO if they don’t get vaccinated.
    I agree. It's probably the right policy in this case. The problem with nudge policies in general is that although they may work in the short-term I think they may have a corrosive effect on society in the long-term because people will become cynical that what they're being told is never entirely truthful. It'll lead to more people believing in conspiracy theories in the long run. That's why I always thought Cameron's support for the so-called Nudge Unit was a bad idea. In my opinion it's better to be completely truthful with people 99% of the time. But, as I said, this may be a rare exception where it is a good idea.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.

    I've been filling in gaps in my daughter's film history. The Men Who Stare At Goats, and Master & Commander. She liked the former more than the latter.

    Hopefully tomorrow we will play wingspan with chocolate mini eggs.

    Every day is the same and we are slowly going mad. But I am knitting her jumper quickly.
    Love M&C.

    It has actually made me want to read Po'B again!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Mortimer said:

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    Duh?
    If there is a third wave, it will be due to vaccine escape.

    Vaxports would have no impact at all...
    France is having a 3rd wave right now. Not because of a vaccine-resistant variant.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047

    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.

    Just watched Colette, which we recorded a couple of days ago on the BBC. Not bad.

    Watched The Sting (1973) off Google Play yesterday. Neither of us had ever seen it but had always meant to. A very good lockdown feelgood film.
    I've been watching (just turning this into the TV thread :lol: World's most remarkable houses (I think that's what it's called) with Caroline Quentin and an architect guy called Piers. It's good.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    MaxPB said:

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    A question no one has proposed an answer to. If the next wave is because of a fully vaccine resistant variant then how does the vaccine passport with now useless vaccine information stop the new variant from spreading?
    That's a big if. Far more likely surely is that a 3rd wave is spread through unvaccinated people mixing closely.
    How when the numbers of unvaccinated are going to be absolutely tiny. The number of people without immunity will be even smaller.

    We're literally talking about a handful of people, a third wave would need to have started a month ago or longer to cause us issues with hospitals being overrun.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618

    This will be a massive massive test for Starmer:


    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1378814199162359809/photo/1

    I dare say @Mortimer and liberty-loving colleagues on the right of politics will be glad to see their counterparts on the libertarian left waking up to this. Interesting developments.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Mortimer said:

    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.

    I've been filling in gaps in my daughter's film history. The Men Who Stare At Goats, and Master & Commander. She liked the former more than the latter.

    Hopefully tomorrow we will play wingspan with chocolate mini eggs.

    Every day is the same and we are slowly going mad. But I am knitting her jumper quickly.
    Love M&C.

    It has actually made me want to read Po'B again!
    M&C is a top film! Shame they never did any sequels - it's not as if there wasn't sufficient source material.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Mortimer said:

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    Duh?
    If there is a third wave, it will be due to vaccine escape.

    Vaxports would have no impact at all...
    France is having a 3rd wave right now. Not because of a vaccine-resistant variant.
    But France has vaccinated 11% of its population, we're at 50%. It simply isn't a comparable situation.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    Mortimer said:

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    Duh?
    If there is a third wave, it will be due to vaccine escape.

    Vaxports would have no impact at all...
    France is having a 3rd wave right now. Not because of a vaccine-resistant variant.
    You do realise that only just over 13% of France is vaccinated, right? And that they're now experiencing the Kentish variant (which we had in December)
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    A question no one has proposed an answer to. If the next wave is because of a fully vaccine resistant variant then how does the vaccine passport with now useless vaccine information stop the new variant from spreading?
    It doesn't. But no-one is suggesting vaccine certificates for that scenario.
    What are they for then?
    For the intermediate situation where take-up of vaccines, and perhaps effectiveness, isn't sufficient to allow removal of all restrictions. I don't see what is so hard to understand about this.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    edited April 2021

    Mortimer said:

    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.

    I've been filling in gaps in my daughter's film history. The Men Who Stare At Goats, and Master & Commander. She liked the former more than the latter.

    Hopefully tomorrow we will play wingspan with chocolate mini eggs.

    Every day is the same and we are slowly going mad. But I am knitting her jumper quickly.
    Love M&C.

    It has actually made me want to read Po'B again!
    M&C is a top film! Shame they never did any sequels - it's not as if there wasn't sufficient source material.
    Haha indeed. I was really hoping for a series. If for no other reason than because the books do make me a bit sleepy...
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    MaxPB said:

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    A question no one has proposed an answer to. If the next wave is because of a fully vaccine resistant variant then how does the vaccine passport with now useless vaccine information stop the new variant from spreading?
    That's a big if. Far more likely surely is that a 3rd wave is spread through unvaccinated people mixing closely.
    That would be highly unlikely to be a wave, more a localised re-emergence/cluster. And frankly I think falls within the realms of “personal risk”. I’ve no idea how that can be connected with the idea of vaccine passports either.

    In fact, thinking logically, a policy of vaccine passports would actually increase the chances of significant numbers of unvaccinated people mixing exclusively outside of mainstream society. So increases the chances of such a flare-up.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    alex_ said:

    RobD said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article. Following on from the Tories best performance in Wales in decades in 2019, I would expect Andrew RT Davies to lead the Tories to their best Senedd performance since 1999, in particular gaining Labour seats in North Wales as they did at the general election.
    I expect Plaid to make inroads on the list too.

    However Labour's continued dominance in South Wales, which has the largest number of Welsh constituencies, should see it remain largest party

    If it happens it will have nothing to do with RT Davies who is hopeless
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative leader since devolution in 1999
    RT is the best Welsh Conservative Leader since the last but one Welsh Conservatives Leader.
    He will do better than Nick Bourne ever did in May, the best Nick Bourne got was 25% on the constituency vote and 22% on the list in 2011

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1375105505350287362?s=20
    Amazing the “Abolish” can get 7% of the vote. I can’t help but imagine them the very worst kind of knuckle-draggers.
    Why? The referendum was only just won by Yes:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Welsh_devolution_referendum

    Hardly a surprise that there's support for abolishing it.
    And devolution has hardly beenan unqualified success in delivering tge great Welsh leap forward.
    Perhaps they need a proper electoral system; the current one is gamed to favour Labour.

    Second, it needs some real powers, otherwise it’s just a talking shop.

    Third, the Welsh actually need to vote as if they do want first class education and health systems. At present; they don’t seem fussed.

    Finally, I have seen some academic writing that suggests that Welsh devolution has improved Welsh GDP by a small amount; compared to the counter-factual. No, don’t ask me to find it.
    There are a ton of powers devolved to the Welsh parliament, it's hardly a talking shop.
    Suffers from the same broad problems as Scotland: lots of administrative responsibility, comparatively little in the way of revenue raising.

    This, of course, could be solved by independence. Then the Welsh Parliament would control all the levers, and these kinds of arguments would end.
    Even ignoring all the other problems, how would an independent Wales overcome the existence of a hard border with England? (Which is of course a major issue for Sindy as well). Within the EU they would not be allowed to negotiate “special arrangements”.
    I suppose I wasn't being entirely serious. I am just deeply cynical about devolution and the tensions that it has created or exacerbated.

    What we already know from Scotland, because we have the evidence of 2014 to prove it, is that nearly half of the population has had enough of being part of the same country as England and actively wants rid of us. There's no particular reason to suppose that Wales isn't on the same trajectory, just a number of years behind.

    It makes one actively question what the point of the British state is. If the component parts don't really like it, and are only sticking together because they're afraid that blowing it up will leave them with a bit less money to spend, then why bother?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    This will be a massive massive test for Starmer:


    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1378814199162359809/photo/1

    I dare say @Mortimer and liberty-loving colleagues on the right of politics will be glad to see their counterparts on the libertarian left waking up to this. Interesting developments.
    Totally.

    Libertines vs Fearties is clearly the new cleavage in British politics...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840

    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.

    Just binge re-watched Homeland Series 1. Even though I knew what happened it was still beautifully acted, tense and layered.
    Clare Danes' eyes should get a special acting award.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    Mortimer said:

    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.

    I've been filling in gaps in my daughter's film history. The Men Who Stare At Goats, and Master & Commander. She liked the former more than the latter.

    Hopefully tomorrow we will play wingspan with chocolate mini eggs.

    Every day is the same and we are slowly going mad. But I am knitting her jumper quickly.
    Love M&C.

    It has actually made me want to read Po'B again!
    I read all of PO'B again last summer/autumn. Very satisfying.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Starmer would be insane to back the vaccine passports

    It's a get out of jail free card for Johnson if there is a third wave, and Starmer opposes.
    How would vaccine passports stop a third wave exactly?
    A question no one has proposed an answer to. If the next wave is because of a fully vaccine resistant variant then how does the vaccine passport with now useless vaccine information stop the new variant from spreading?
    It doesn't. But no-one is suggesting vaccine certificates for that scenario.
    What are they for then?
    For the intermediate situation where take-up of vaccines, and perhaps effectiveness, isn't sufficient to allow removal of all restrictions. I don't see what is so hard to understand about this.
    Because they are limiting it to specific settings. Why do you think football grounds are dangerous? I think household mixing and pubs are worse.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,075
    Mortimer said:

    Foxy said:

    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.

    I have very been working a fair bit, but did watch The Assistant. A very good film, full of quiet menace and very topical.

    The original Star Trek is on Netflix too, including the original pilot. Very lame special effects and scenery by modern standards, but much better writing, characterisation and far reaching themes. Well worth a look.
    Oh also, World War Z.

    Cracking film. Based on a viral pandemic!
    I get enough of that at work! No pandemic films for me thank you.

    I can also recommend "Boy" set in a rural community on the East Cape of NZ. Quite a funny coming of age tale, a much more gentle film than the superb but brutal "Once were Warriors". It's on Amazon Prime I think.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    This will be a massive massive test for Starmer:


    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1378814199162359809/photo/1

    He seems to have withdrawn his opposition and certainly Lucy Powell endorsed them last time I saw her on Sky
    I'm beginning to wonder if Labour's new strategy for winning an election is to copy Tory policy *exactly*, and then claim that they'd make a better fist of implementing it.

    This will be a massive massive test for Starmer:


    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1378814199162359809/photo/1

    He seems to have withdrawn his opposition and certainly Lucy Powell endorsed them last time I saw her on Sky
    I'm beginning to wonder if Labour's new strategy for winning an election is to copy Tory policy *exactly*, and then claim that they'd make a better fist of implementing it.
    Pretty much what Johnson did in 2019 by pinching Corbyn's 2017 policies.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    Mortimer said:

    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.

    I've been filling in gaps in my daughter's film history. The Men Who Stare At Goats, and Master & Commander. She liked the former more than the latter.

    Hopefully tomorrow we will play wingspan with chocolate mini eggs.

    Every day is the same and we are slowly going mad. But I am knitting her jumper quickly.
    Love M&C.

    It has actually made me want to read Po'B again!
    I read all of PO'B again last summer/autumn. Very satisfying.

    Mortimer said:

    What have people been watching over the holidays? I watched The Maruetanian today (Cumberpatch, Jodie Foster, on Amazon Prime) and can see why it got a Gloden Globe award and 5 Bafta nominations. Based on a true story of a lawyer seeking a fair trial for a Guantansmo detainee - I won't give the ending away, but it preserves an element of ambiguity throughout and isn't jjust a sort of Mr Smith Goes to Court movie. Foster is excellent.

    I've been filling in gaps in my daughter's film history. The Men Who Stare At Goats, and Master & Commander. She liked the former more than the latter.

    Hopefully tomorrow we will play wingspan with chocolate mini eggs.

    Every day is the same and we are slowly going mad. But I am knitting her jumper quickly.
    Love M&C.

    It has actually made me want to read Po'B again!
    I read all of PO'B again last summer/autumn. Very satisfying.
    Second person to tell me that. Very jealous!

    The other was a bookshop owner, so he had them handy. I very nearly bought all the first editions when I were a nipper..... But seeing the comparable prices now, I'm quite pleased I didn't
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618

    This will be a massive massive test for Starmer:


    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1378814199162359809/photo/1

    I suspect Johnson will back down besides being correct.

    If in the unlikely event that he doesn't the third wave can be blamed on Starmer undermining the Covid passport scheme.
    At what stage and circumstance do you think vaxports will be efficacious?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Mortimer said:

    This will be a massive massive test for Starmer:


    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1378814199162359809/photo/1

    I dare say @Mortimer and liberty-loving colleagues on the right of politics will be glad to see their counterparts on the libertarian left waking up to this. Interesting developments.
    Totally.

    Libertines vs Fearties is clearly the new cleavage in British politics...
    What we really need, of course, is for Labour to crawl off into a quiet corner and perish and to have the Liberal Party back. Which is the great tragedy of this, of course: it's the one thing we're not going to get, because Labour is too weak to do anything of value but too strong to die.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    Test. I just got logged out for no reason.
This discussion has been closed.