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After their party’s flops at WH2020 and the Senate run-offs Georgia’s Republicans act to make it mor

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    Perhaps it will end up like Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil: two parties indistinguishable from each other from the outside, but at daggers drawn for decades.

    Yes, well, those two actually fought a civil war, and I believe guns from that war were kicking around for many years afterwards, so daggers drawn doesn't do it justice.

    I would hope the SNP split skips that stage.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Britain will struggle to source second Covid jabs for those who have already had their first dose but the EU will not be “blackmailed” into exporting vaccine to solve the problem, France’s foreign minister has claimed.

    Jean-Yves Le Drian, a close political ally of the French president, Emmanuel Macron, claimed that the UK’s success had been built on driving forward with first jabs without having secured the second necessary for full vaccination.

    The EU and the UK are locked in talks about the fate of Oxford/AstraZeneca jabs produced in a factory in the Netherlands.

    In an interview with FranceInfo radio, Le Drian suggested that the EU should not have to lose out on the doses to help Britain with a problem of its own making. EU officials and top-rank politicians have repeatedly said they will block any export request by AstraZeneca.


    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/26/france-uk-struggle-source-second-covid-jabs-eu-blackmail

    Are we due much from the Netherlands?

    No, we aren't. Again, it's all an exercise in "look a squirrel". The UK is basically self sufficient for second doses of AZ which is really all we need. The first dose programmes will shift to Moderna and Novavax from April.
    what about pfizer
    They have been stockpiling Pfizer for the last 6 weeks for the 2nd doses, there is plenty in the country. The EU threats are empty and pointless.
    If the doses are stockpiled why haven't they been given yet?

    Pfizer works with just a 3-4 week delay just fine, it was dragged to 12 to allow more use of the doses and remove the need for stockpiling? So if they're in and stockpiled why not put them in arms?
    Due to the 12 week thing, you will find that 2nd doses over the next week really ramp up.
    Yes but if the 2nd doses were stockpiled 6 weeks then why not give the 2nd doses before now?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,706
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Gordo Broon will be worried that he’s about to lose his intervention crown.

    https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1375420152691503107?s=21

    For some reasonit makes me think of an old game I've mentioned before, Republic: The Revolution, where during the course of things the political faction you run splits, and one of your major figures seeks to take you down. You can overcome it and then even recruit them back into the fold, with reports of some thinking the spat then reconciliation was just to make you seem stronger.

    I have no idea of Salmond seeking SNP alternatives would make a difference, but if he instead were to say despite it all, vote SNP?
    Totally without any inside info, but I suspect it'll be something like him running for one of the alt nat parties on the list while strongly advising folk to vote SNP on constituency, that way it would leave a tiny thread back to the SNP.

    I think one unexamined aspect of this clusterfcuk is how Salmond feels about completely burning his bridges with the party that he's been committed to most of his life. Not sure if all bridges aren't already burnt mind, but no doubt there are people telling Salmond that Sturgeon is a passing fancy, busted flush etc and the party & nation are waiting for the return of the king. Fwiw I think he's been poorly advised, particularly recently.
    TUD he has nothing to lose and if it rids us of the current squad of ne'er do wells and carpetbaggers all to the good. We cannot afford another 5 years of fudge and pension collecting by this bunch of absolute muppets.
    I have no idea how this will effect the vote - any ideas?
    Given the number of wasted second votes for SNP , think they had 750K plus last time and won 4 list seats, would be sensible for anyone to give 2nd vote to Alba and give them a shedload of list seats. Would mean massive majority for independence and force SNP to really try for independence.
    If Alba got say 20% on the list that would be true, more likely they get 5%, split the Green vote on the list in particular, fewer Greens get elected on the list, Unionists do instead and all Salmond has done is produce the Unionist majority that would have been impossible without that nationalist split on the list
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,837

    kinabalu said:

    What if after the election the SNP and Alba need to form a coalition to govern?

    Will 'Though you're a bunch of wokists led by the bitch who tried to stitch up our leader, work with us' be a goer d'ye think?
    Ha. Maybe!

    But you know that scene in the Godfather where Sollozzo the Turk tells Michael and Tom Hagen that "It's not personal, it's strictly business"?

    I sense it might be the dead opposite here.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,837
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DougSeal said:

    I am utterly baffled by the surprise shown on here to the Asda decision which is based on a law that has been in place since 1971 - the Equal Pay Act (now consolidated into the Equality Act). There is nothing that remarkable in there.

    Can you explain it to us ? Warehouse and shopfront work seem different beasts to me.
    This is a long going issue - not just that there should be equal pay for exactly equal work, but that traditional sex-differentiation of work types is also an issue to be addressed.
    The hardest job I ever did involved shifting tyres onto lorries in a warehouse.
    Yes, I did something similar in a vineyard.

    Reminds you why the middle classes don't so manual labour.
    Hardest one I ever did was in a strawberry factory. Had to stand at a conveyor belt for 2 hours at a time, punctuated by 10 min breaks, peering down at the fruit coming through, job being to spot the bad ones, grab it, and toss it over my shoulder into a big bin. I did it for 3 weeks and could not have done a single day more. I often used to think back to that experience, many years later, when I was poncing about on a City trading floor and earning so much more for doing so much less. This probably lies at the heart of my deep skepticism about the link between value added and remuneration in the capitalist economy.
    It's difficult. That job isn't adding much value and is very low skilled (anyone with eyes and functioning arms can do it) but it's boring and exhausting, so it feels unfair.

    City jobs are dealing with high value stakes and do require skill (judgement, risk analysis, numeracy skills, people skills) but aren't as physically exhausting and have some variety and interest.

    Basically, we should try and automate all shit repetitive non-skilled jobs.
    I'm very skeptical. You could train up a bunch of bright young people quite easily and quite quickly to do most City front office jobs. Pure market forces, if they applied, should be bringing remuneration in the sector right down since there are many many times more people able and willing (with the right training) to do those jobs than there are jobs to fill. So I think there is something else going on. But I totally agree with you about automating crappy jobs out of existence. If that's not progress, nothing is.
    Yes but remember half the UK population has an IQ below 100 and about 15% have an IQ below 85, they may not be able to do the more highly skilled jobs if you automate out of existence all the repetitive manual, call centre jobs etc. That therefore risks higher unemployment and a higher welfare bill if it then makes a UBI inevitable
    That's the big challenge, yes. What are all the people frozen out of the knowledge based, high tech, "AI" economy going to do? It has to be something that both pays the bills AND provides self-respect and progression.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,748

    If I understand the Scottish system properly, Salmond just needs about 5% on the list to start to have a presence right?

    Zero sum game? He's not taking that 5% from the Unionists.....
    latest Survation poll indicated 67 SNP constituency seats for a bare majority, and no list seats. More polls like that could change a few minds.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Gordo Broon will be worried that he’s about to lose his intervention crown.

    https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1375420152691503107?s=21

    For some reasonit makes me think of an old game I've mentioned before, Republic: The Revolution, where during the course of things the political faction you run splits, and one of your major figures seeks to take you down. You can overcome it and then even recruit them back into the fold, with reports of some thinking the spat then reconciliation was just to make you seem stronger.

    I have no idea of Salmond seeking SNP alternatives would make a difference, but if he instead were to say despite it all, vote SNP?
    Totally without any inside info, but I suspect it'll be something like him running for one of the alt nat parties on the list while strongly advising folk to vote SNP on constituency, that way it would leave a tiny thread back to the SNP.

    I think one unexamined aspect of this clusterfcuk is how Salmond feels about completely burning his bridges with the party that he's been committed to most of his life. Not sure if all bridges aren't already burnt mind, but no doubt there are people telling Salmond that Sturgeon is a passing fancy, busted flush etc and the party & nation are waiting for the return of the king. Fwiw I think he's been poorly advised, particularly recently.
    TUD he has nothing to lose and if it rids us of the current squad of ne'er do wells and carpetbaggers all to the good. We cannot afford another 5 years of fudge and pension collecting by this bunch of absolute muppets.
    I have no idea how this will effect the vote - any ideas?
    Given the number of wasted second votes for SNP , think they had 750K plus last time and won 4 list seats, would be sensible for anyone to give 2nd vote to Alba and give them a shedload of list seats. Would mean massive majority for independence and force SNP to really try for independence.
    Given the stupid electoral system, why doesn't every party split?

    The Conservatives (Constituency) and the Unionists (List) etc etc etc.
    they do all split , just the unionist parties win little to no constituency seats , so they have to have all their supposed top people at top of list as well to ensure they get a chance of a seat.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670
    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Gordo Broon will be worried that he’s about to lose his intervention crown.

    https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1375420152691503107?s=21

    For some reasonit makes me think of an old game I've mentioned before, Republic: The Revolution, where during the course of things the political faction you run splits, and one of your major figures seeks to take you down. You can overcome it and then even recruit them back into the fold, with reports of some thinking the spat then reconciliation was just to make you seem stronger.

    I have no idea of Salmond seeking SNP alternatives would make a difference, but if he instead were to say despite it all, vote SNP?
    Totally without any inside info, but I suspect it'll be something like him running for one of the alt nat parties on the list while strongly advising folk to vote SNP on constituency, that way it would leave a tiny thread back to the SNP.

    I think one unexamined aspect of this clusterfcuk is how Salmond feels about completely burning his bridges with the party that he's been committed to most of his life. Not sure if all bridges aren't already burnt mind, but no doubt there are people telling Salmond that Sturgeon is a passing fancy, busted flush etc and the party & nation are waiting for the return of the king. Fwiw I think he's been poorly advised, particularly recently.
    TUD he has nothing to lose and if it rids us of the current squad of ne'er do wells and carpetbaggers all to the good. We cannot afford another 5 years of fudge and pension collecting by this bunch of absolute muppets.
    I have no idea how this will effect the vote - any ideas?
    Given the number of wasted second votes for SNP , think they had 750K plus last time and won 4 list seats, would be sensible for anyone to give 2nd vote to Alba and give them a shedload of list seats. Would mean massive majority for independence and force SNP to really try for independence.
    If Alba got say 20% on the list that would be true, more likely they get 5%, split the Green vote on the list in particular, fewer Greens get elected on the list, Unionists do instead and all Salmond has done is produce the Unionist majority that would have been impossible without that nationalist split on the list
    you are on the ball as ever, what rubbish.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,706
    edited March 2021

    kinabalu said:

    What if after the election the SNP and Alba need to form a coalition to govern?

    Will 'Though you're a bunch of wokists led by the bitch who tried to stitch up our leader, work with us' be a goer d'ye think?
    Are you familiar with the phrase "politics makes strange bedfellows"?

    For example, note that the roots of the split in Ireland between Fine Gael and Fianna Fail go back to the division & bloodshed between Pro- and Anti-Treaty Republicans. Yet today they are coalition government partners.

    Granted, it took almost a hundred years, but still . . .
    Only to keep out SF.

    After the Irish war of independence, in the Irish civil war Fine Gael were pro treaty and Sinn Fein were anti treaty.

    Modern day Fianna Fail were formed out of Sinn Fein when Sinn Fein members continued to demand a boycott of the Free State Dail even if the compromise of a removal of the Oath of Allegiance by De Valera had been accepted.

    De Valera then left Sinn Fein to form Fianna Fail
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Scott_xP said:

    tlg86 said:

    Is Alba bad news for the Greens?

    It's bad news for separatists of all colours
    You may be right, but I think we need to wait and see how well Salmond's new vehicle does. On the one hand he's almost the archetypal Marmite politician: committed Unionists and the majority Sturgeon faction of the SNP will, of course, oppose him bitterly, and the taint of sexual scandal will do him no good at all with much of the rest of the electorate. On the other, one suspects that he'll command a substantial group of loyal devotees, and we've seen from the example of Farage how far that can get you: his party won sackloads of seats in PR elections, he bent the policy of his larger, more mainstream rival to his purpose, and his primary objective was ultimately fulfilled.

    You would've thought that the Alba Party would be able to win several list MSPs; it might even clean out and replace the Greens, who won six last time round. But it's entirely novel and we can't be sure that it won't turn out to be a damp squib. Time will tell. However, regardless of whether or not the SNP can still win an outright majority, if Mr Harvie's sock puppets were to be displaced by an independence-focussed party with, presumably, a more radical platform that the SNP, then things could get rather interesting. Especially if, as expected, Boris Johnson responds to the assumed pro-independence majority after the election by continuing to stonewall all demands for a second referendum. The two halves of the independence movement could easily end up spending their time fighting a lengthy war over strategy, rather than uniting to finish off the Unionists.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670
    That is my patron membership of ALBA confirmed.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670

    Scott_xP said:

    tlg86 said:

    Is Alba bad news for the Greens?

    It's bad news for separatists of all colours
    You may be right, but I think we need to wait and see how well Salmond's new vehicle does. On the one hand he's almost the archetypal Marmite politician: committed Unionists and the majority Sturgeon faction of the SNP will, of course, oppose him bitterly, and the taint of sexual scandal will do him no good at all with much of the rest of the electorate. On the other, one suspects that he'll command a substantial group of loyal devotees, and we've seen from the example of Farage how far that can get you: his party won sackloads of seats in PR elections, he bent the policy of his larger, more mainstream rival to his purpose, and his primary objective was ultimately fulfilled.

    You would've thought that the Alba Party would be able to win several list MSPs; it might even clean out and replace the Greens, who won six last time round. But it's entirely novel and we can't be sure that it won't turn out to be a damp squib. Time will tell. However, regardless of whether or not the SNP can still win an outright majority, if Mr Harvie's sock puppets were to be displaced by an independence-focussed party with, presumably, a more radical platform that the SNP, then things could get rather interesting. Especially if, as expected, Boris Johnson responds to the assumed pro-independence majority after the election by continuing to stonewall all demands for a second referendum. The two halves of the independence movement could easily end up spending their time fighting a lengthy war over strategy, rather than uniting to finish off the Unionists.
    If they got roughly 1 in 8 of the yes list votes it would be 8 list seats , 1 in 2 would give them 24 list seats
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,865
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:
    McEleny will get our family's votes for sure
    That’s my vote sorted. SNP for constituency. Personal vote for Kenny Gibson. Alba on list. Voted Chris McEleny for list selection, so delighted to still be able to vote for him, instead of the woke pushed to the top of the list after receiving about 4% of the votes.

    Message for HYFUD. Last time I voted SNP 1 and 2. List vote was wasted. This time I hope to have helped select an additional independence MSP, rather than letting a unionist in.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,748
    edited March 2021
    SNP hold seat in Midlothian East local by-election.

    Final round of vote transfers from the SLAB candidate elimination were 25% to SNP, 24% to SCon, 51% didn't transfer (728 votes, 308 would have secured SCon win).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,706

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:
    McEleny will get our family's votes for sure
    That’s my vote sorted. SNP for constituency. Personal vote for Kenny Gibson. Alba on list. Voted Chris McEleny for list selection, so delighted to still be able to vote for him, instead of the woke pushed to the top of the list after receiving about 4% of the votes.

    Message for HYFUD. Last time I voted SNP 1 and 2. List vote was wasted. This time I hope to have helped select an additional independence MSP, rather than letting a unionist in.
    Perhaps in your case but more likely some SNP 1 Green 2 voters will now go SNP 1 Alba 2 and cost the Greens list seats without electing more than 1 or 2 Alba MSPs.

    In the borders given the Tories win most of the constituencies if you were SNP 1 and SNP 2 and now vote SNP 1 and Alba 2 you will also cost the SNP their list MSPs there as well
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,706

    Scott_xP said:

    tlg86 said:

    Is Alba bad news for the Greens?

    It's bad news for separatists of all colours
    You may be right, but I think we need to wait and see how well Salmond's new vehicle does. On the one hand he's almost the archetypal Marmite politician: committed Unionists and the majority Sturgeon faction of the SNP will, of course, oppose him bitterly, and the taint of sexual scandal will do him no good at all with much of the rest of the electorate. On the other, one suspects that he'll command a substantial group of loyal devotees, and we've seen from the example of Farage how far that can get you: his party won sackloads of seats in PR elections, he bent the policy of his larger, more mainstream rival to his purpose, and his primary objective was ultimately fulfilled.

    You would've thought that the Alba Party would be able to win several list MSPs; it might even clean out and replace the Greens, who won six last time round. But it's entirely novel and we can't be sure that it won't turn out to be a damp squib. Time will tell. However, regardless of whether or not the SNP can still win an outright majority, if Mr Harvie's sock puppets were to be displaced by an independence-focussed party with, presumably, a more radical platform that the SNP, then things could get rather interesting. Especially if, as expected, Boris Johnson responds to the assumed pro-independence majority after the election by continuing to stonewall all demands for a second referendum. The two halves of the independence movement could easily end up spending their time fighting a lengthy war over strategy, rather than uniting to finish off the Unionists.
    Indeed, as we saw with the Tory and Brexit Party splits in spring 2019, it was only a largely united Leave vote behind the Tories in December 2019 that delivered Brexit.

    Splits in the Nationalist vote and on strategy with Salmond pushing a more hardline UDI which Sturgeon won't will only benefit Unionists and Boris as they can leave the Nationalists to their civil war
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    tlg86 said:

    Is Alba bad news for the Greens?

    It's bad news for separatists of all colours
    You may be right, but I think we need to wait and see how well Salmond's new vehicle does. On the one hand he's almost the archetypal Marmite politician: committed Unionists and the majority Sturgeon faction of the SNP will, of course, oppose him bitterly, and the taint of sexual scandal will do him no good at all with much of the rest of the electorate. On the other, one suspects that he'll command a substantial group of loyal devotees, and we've seen from the example of Farage how far that can get you: his party won sackloads of seats in PR elections, he bent the policy of his larger, more mainstream rival to his purpose, and his primary objective was ultimately fulfilled.

    You would've thought that the Alba Party would be able to win several list MSPs; it might even clean out and replace the Greens, who won six last time round. But it's entirely novel and we can't be sure that it won't turn out to be a damp squib. Time will tell. However, regardless of whether or not the SNP can still win an outright majority, if Mr Harvie's sock puppets were to be displaced by an independence-focussed party with, presumably, a more radical platform that the SNP, then things could get rather interesting. Especially if, as expected, Boris Johnson responds to the assumed pro-independence majority after the election by continuing to stonewall all demands for a second referendum. The two halves of the independence movement could easily end up spending their time fighting a lengthy war over strategy, rather than uniting to finish off the Unionists.
    Indeed, as we saw with the Tory and Brexit Party splits in spring 2019, it was only a largely united Leave vote behind the Tories in December 2019 that delivered Brexit.

    Splits in the Nationalist vote and on strategy with Salmond pushing a more hardline UDI which Sturgeon won't will only benefit Unionists and Boris as they can leave the Nationalists to their civil war
    You're delusional. Everything is good news for Unionism in your eyes. Not once have you ever said "this is bad news for unionists".

    The almost unanimous opinion besides yourself seems to be that this makes more pro-indy MSPs more likely. If the new Parliament has a bigger pro-indy majority then that's pretty damning.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,706
    edited March 2021

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    tlg86 said:

    Is Alba bad news for the Greens?

    It's bad news for separatists of all colours
    You may be right, but I think we need to wait and see how well Salmond's new vehicle does. On the one hand he's almost the archetypal Marmite politician: committed Unionists and the majority Sturgeon faction of the SNP will, of course, oppose him bitterly, and the taint of sexual scandal will do him no good at all with much of the rest of the electorate. On the other, one suspects that he'll command a substantial group of loyal devotees, and we've seen from the example of Farage how far that can get you: his party won sackloads of seats in PR elections, he bent the policy of his larger, more mainstream rival to his purpose, and his primary objective was ultimately fulfilled.

    You would've thought that the Alba Party would be able to win several list MSPs; it might even clean out and replace the Greens, who won six last time round. But it's entirely novel and we can't be sure that it won't turn out to be a damp squib. Time will tell. However, regardless of whether or not the SNP can still win an outright majority, if Mr Harvie's sock puppets were to be displaced by an independence-focussed party with, presumably, a more radical platform that the SNP, then things could get rather interesting. Especially if, as expected, Boris Johnson responds to the assumed pro-independence majority after the election by continuing to stonewall all demands for a second referendum. The two halves of the independence movement could easily end up spending their time fighting a lengthy war over strategy, rather than uniting to finish off the Unionists.
    Indeed, as we saw with the Tory and Brexit Party splits in spring 2019, it was only a largely united Leave vote behind the Tories in December 2019 that delivered Brexit.

    Splits in the Nationalist vote and on strategy with Salmond pushing a more hardline UDI which Sturgeon won't will only benefit Unionists and Boris as they can leave the Nationalists to their civil war
    You're delusional. Everything is good news for Unionism in your eyes. Not once have you ever said "this is bad news for unionists".

    The almost unanimous opinion besides yourself seems to be that this makes more pro-indy MSPs more likely. If the new Parliament has a bigger pro-indy majority then that's pretty damning.
    No, there are widely different views.

    The view by a non Tory, non Unionist, little Englander libertarian like you is that it is bad news for Unionists but that is only as you have an ideological agenda to break up the Union.

    It also makes an SNP majority significantly less likely ( it will likely cost the SNP their list MSPs in the Scottish borders) and Boris can then just watch the Salmond and Sturgeon civil war when he refuses indyref2, which he will, on the grounds the Unionists will still have won a majority of votes even if not seats
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,080

    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    I'm sceptical about this story, but the shelves will probably be empty by next week...

    https://twitter.com/tracyalloway/status/1374866466885885952

    It’s not as if the pinch point for 12% of global trade just got blocked, or anything like that.
    Yeah, but I'd be surprised if much wood pulp is travelling through the Suez. Always ready to be proved wrong.
    Not sure whether the ships used to transport wood pulp are the same as used for the trade through Suez, but if everything takes an extra ten days in each direction while the canal is closed then less stuff overall will be transported. Maybe that would be less wood pulp on a different route with the ships diverted to serve the Suez trade.

    Not that I'm concerned. We still have months of our Brexit stockpile.
    There isn't a special class of goods or ships that make up "the Suez trade." Why would there be, and if there were, why should woodchip be excluded from it?
    Well clearly ships that carry wood cannot easily start carrying oil.

    I know that oil, gas and container ships use Suez.

    I do not know whether there are ships that take wood through, or are similar. That's why I raised the point of the ships.
    Indeed, many protestants see any images of Christ as idolatrous. Many believe that the cross should not be seen with an image of Christ on it as he "came down from the cross". All the more reason why the CofE's recent pronouncement that they will "remove images that cause offence" maybe a little tricky
    To celebrate this cross post I have built a cross out of rolls of toilet paper.

    How many religions have I offended by doing this?
    Probably your partner who is in the roll-less loo on the thunderbox swearing at you.

    To previous: Who are these "many Protestants"?
    Yes - even the hard core Wee Free types I've encountered, seem to take the view that blasphemy falls on the blasphemer alone. That God isn't stupid enough to punish the community for the transgressions of one.

    They also seem to have adopted the theory that the blasphemer *belongs* to God - punishing them yourself is usurping Gods prerogative.
    In the UK I would say you are looking at maybe 0.1% of the populations tops, or fewer.
This discussion has been closed.