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COVID vaccination – the extraordinary political divide in the US – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pro_Rata said:

    My Facebook promoting a most overrated band/artist thread, so rather than provoke hatred amongst a group of genuine strangers, I will state my nomination and provoke hatred in OGH's friendly little cantina.

    Weller, post-1982. What was the point of all that?

    Post 95 I’d say. But Wild Wood is a great album, Stanley Road not bad, and TSC made good songs

    I don’t really like the early Jam, apart from Inthe City and I got by in time - but Sound Affects is one of my favourite albums. When I joined UKIP I felt a bit like ‘Set the House Ablaze’ was too close to home.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    992k tests?!
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288


    Help, please, pb brains trust,

    What is the best book on politics to buy for my 15 year old niece, whose birthday is later this month ?

    (She dislikes Thatcher & Boris).

    John O'Farrell's Things Can Only Get Better: Eighteen Miserable Years in the Life of a Labour Supporter, 1979-1997

    She should find his predicament fairly relatable, and it's quite amusingly written.
    Not as big a reader as I would like to be, but yes enjoyed that.

    For darker amusements: 'Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible' by Peter Pomerantsev. The politics plays in the shadows somewhat, but it is definitely there.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870
    @Andy_JS

    "Britain's Favourite 80's song: 1981" on Channel 5 at 10pm
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited March 2021


    Help, please, pb brains trust,

    What is the best book on politics to buy for my 15 year old niece, whose birthday is later this month ?

    (She dislikes Thatcher & Boris).

    The Complete Yes Minister, if it’s still in print, is still eminently readable.

    Edit - it is still in print, apparently.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    tlg86 said:

    Has this been mentioned on here?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/05/liverpool-mayoral-race-in-chaos-as-anna-rothery-sues-labour-party

    The legal action – brought by Anna Rothery, who holds the ceremonial position of lord mayor of Liverpool – is the latest messy chapter in what one local MP described as the “shitshow” surrounding Labour’s handling of one of its most loyal cities, which has not elected a Tory MP since the 1970s.

    There are, however, 6 current Tory Mps from the city. Most well-known, to PBers anyways.
    Can anyone name them without Googling?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,587
    "Welcome to today's language learning session. Your teacher today is Meghan Markle, and the language is Woke-ism".
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,893


    Help, please, pb brains trust,

    What is the best book on politics to buy for my 15 year old niece, whose birthday is later this month ?

    (She dislikes Thatcher & Boris).

    John O'Farrell's Things Can Only Get Better: Eighteen Miserable Years in the Life of a Labour Supporter, 1979-1997

    She should find his predicament fairly relatable, and it's quite amusingly written.
    "Collapse of Stout Party: The Decline and Fall of the Tories" by Julian Critchley is a decent read. We'll be getting the rebooted version in a few years I imagine :)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    ydoethur said:


    Help, please, pb brains trust,

    What is the best book on politics to buy for my 15 year old niece, whose birthday is later this month ?

    (She dislikes Thatcher & Boris).

    The Complete Yes Minister, if it’s still in print, is still eminently readable.

    Edit - it is still in print, apparently.
    Well of course it is. Would you expect the Bible to go out of print?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:


    Help, please, pb brains trust,

    What is the best book on politics to buy for my 15 year old niece, whose birthday is later this month ?

    (She dislikes Thatcher & Boris).

    The Complete Yes Minister, if it’s still in print, is still eminently readable.

    Edit - it is still in print, apparently.
    Well of course it is. Would you expect the Bible to go out of print?
    That would be quite a Job.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,693
    edited March 2021

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    In comparison France has 23k cases with a positivity rate of 7.3%.

    image
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    I think we must be close to bringing this outbreak under control.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222


    Help, please, pb brains trust,

    What is the best book on politics to buy for my 15 year old niece, whose birthday is later this month ?

    (She dislikes Thatcher & Boris).

    She may enjoy Captive State by George Monbiot.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,693
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:


    Help, please, pb brains trust,

    What is the best book on politics to buy for my 15 year old niece, whose birthday is later this month ?

    (She dislikes Thatcher & Boris).

    The Complete Yes Minister, if it’s still in print, is still eminently readable.

    Edit - it is still in print, apparently.
    Well of course it is. Would you expect the Bible to go out of print?
    That would be quite a Job.
    These days you can just read it on a tablet.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:


    Help, please, pb brains trust,

    What is the best book on politics to buy for my 15 year old niece, whose birthday is later this month ?

    (She dislikes Thatcher & Boris).

    The Complete Yes Minister, if it’s still in print, is still eminently readable.

    Edit - it is still in print, apparently.
    Well of course it is. Would you expect the Bible to go out of print?
    That would be quite a Job.
    It's all a Revelation(s) to me!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:


    Help, please, pb brains trust,

    What is the best book on politics to buy for my 15 year old niece, whose birthday is later this month ?

    (She dislikes Thatcher & Boris).

    The Complete Yes Minister, if it’s still in print, is still eminently readable.

    Edit - it is still in print, apparently.
    Well of course it is. Would you expect the Bible to go out of print?
    That would be quite a Job.
    These days you can just read it on a tablet.
    It’s all by the numbers.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,587
    edited March 2021
    DougSeal said:

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    I think we must be close to bringing this outbreak under control.
    When cases go under 1,000 I hope we can stamp it out altogether until everyone is vaccinated. Then we can open the borders.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    edited March 2021
    kle4 said:

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    992k tests?!
    Pillar 2, which is the government Lighthouse Labs and other private labs, is doing a huge part of all the testing now. It's nuts just how huge that capacity has grown, as almost all of it is new.

    Hancock today was talking about sequencing scaling up even further from where it is now, so that we can ideally test every positive result. We already do far more sequencing than anybody else, and we intend to do even more.

    When this is all over the UK is going to have a ridiculously huge testing and genetic sequencing capability. I wonder what we will do with it, tear it down, mothball it, or is there are "peacetime" use?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    Once again, the rolling average case rate is down by about five in just a single day (84.4 per 100k yesterday, 79.7 per 100k today.) The number of local authority areas with rates over 200 per 100k is down from two yesterday to zero in this latest update. Hardly any areas seem to be experiencing rising cases; at the current rate of progress, it looks like all but a handful of isolated spots will be under 100 per 100k in another couple of weeks.

    Although the distribution of cases is a little different this time, it looks like we're broadly speaking back to where we were in early October.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    DougSeal said:

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    I think we must be close to bringing this outbreak under control.
    I`m hoping that people aren`t spooked after the schools go back next week.

    New infections may rise and also the positivity rate - as I reported earlier - because thousands of schoolchildren`s negative LFTs won`t be reported onto the stats but a positive LFT duly confirmed by a positive PCR test WILL go on the figures.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    My hair is insane and ridiculous. Has anyone ever successfully cut their own hair? Is it possible?

    Relatively cheap clippers seem to do an ok job. You'll always miss bits though.

    Simply shaving your head might be a better route, but not one I've followed.
    Yes.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K population

    image

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK local R

    image
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Leon said:



    Dura Ace is antivax as well. Which is really odd as he seems of a scientific bent, and is obviously smart

    I won't have it because it's tested on animals. That's it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK case summary

    image
    image
    image
    image
    image
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    My Facebook promoting a most overrated band/artist thread, so rather than provoke hatred amongst a group of genuine strangers, I will state my nomination and provoke hatred in OGH's friendly little cantina.

    Weller, post-1982. What was the point of all that?

    Post 95 I’d say. But Wild Wood is a great album, Stanley Road not bad, and TSC made good songs

    I don’t really like the early Jam, apart from Inthe City and I got by in time - but Sound Affects is one of my favourite albums. When I joined UKIP I felt a bit like ‘Set the House Ablaze’ was too close to home.
    The Style Council. WYF was that all about? I remember in 88 or 89 when I started buying the Melody Maker they had a feature “Mick Talbot Fan Club Corner” which I maintain is the funniest thing I ever read.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK hospitals

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK deaths

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679


    Help, please, pb brains trust,

    What is the best book on politics to buy for my 15 year old niece, whose birthday is later this month ?

    (She dislikes Thatcher & Boris).

    Matthew Parris's memoir 'Chance Witness': describes pretty much every aspect of raw British political life - campaigning, parliamentary machinations, the media, scandal, the lives of politicians - from Sunny Jim to Blair. Sometimes very moving; sometimes very funny.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK R

    From case data

    image
    image

    From hospital admissions

    image
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,587
    edited March 2021
    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    My Facebook promoting a most overrated band/artist thread, so rather than provoke hatred amongst a group of genuine strangers, I will state my nomination and provoke hatred in OGH's friendly little cantina.

    Weller, post-1982. What was the point of all that?

    Post 95 I’d say. But Wild Wood is a great album, Stanley Road not bad, and TSC made good songs

    I don’t really like the early Jam, apart from Inthe City and I got by in time - but Sound Affects is one of my favourite albums. When I joined UKIP I felt a bit like ‘Set the House Ablaze’ was too close to home.
    The Style Council. WYF was that all about? I remember in 88 or 89 when I started buying the Melody Maker they had a feature “Mick Talbot Fan Club Corner” which I maintain is the funniest thing I ever read.
    The Style Council were Paul Weller's new group after he disbanded The Jam at the end of 1982. Their first single was Speak Like A Child in March 1983. They were very big until about 1987.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    In comparison France has 23k cases with a positivity rate of 7.3%.

    image
    So under a third the number of tests we're doing for four times the number of cases.....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    Age related data

    image
    image
    image
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    DougSeal said:

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    I think we must be close to bringing this outbreak under control.
    Lets see what happens when schools go back.....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    Age related - scaled to 100K population per age group

    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    UK vaccinations

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    992k tests?!
    Pillar 2, which is the government Lighthouse Labs and other private labs, is doing a huge part of all the testing now. It's nuts just how huge that capacity has grown, as almost all of it is new.

    Hancock today was talking about sequencing scaling up even further from where it is now, so that we can ideally test every positive result. We already do far more sequencing than anybody else, and we intend to do even more.

    When this is all over the UK is going to have a ridiculously huge testing and genetic sequencing capability. I wonder what we will do with it, tear it down, mothball it, or is there are "peacetime" use?
    Difficult to say. Some people are quite excited about using this to promote a permanent cultural shift in attitudes to respiratory illnesses - basically, to try to break the culture of presenteeism and encourage people who come down with flu-like symptoms not to go to work and cough all over everybody, but to stay home and order a test. I think that the boffins would rather like to drive down rates of flu and Covid every Winter simply by persuading the sick to stay out of circulation until they get better, and thus consign the annual NHS Winter Crisis to the dustbin of history.

    Personally I don't think it has a chance of success even if attempted, because of a combination of crap sick pay and crap employers, but it's an idea that has some merit in theory.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720


    Help, please, pb brains trust,

    What is the best book on politics to buy for my 15 year old niece, whose birthday is later this month ?

    (She dislikes Thatcher & Boris).

    Matthew Parris's memoir 'Chance Witness': describes pretty much every aspect of raw British political life - campaigning, parliamentary machinations, the media, scandal, the lives of politicians - from Sunny Jim to Blair. Sometimes very moving; sometimes very funny.
    His "Off Message. New Labour New Sketches" is quite good too.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,617

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    In comparison France has 23k cases with a positivity rate of 7.3%.

    image
    While Czechia had over 14k (multiply by over six for equivalent) at 45% positivity rate:

    https://onemocneni-aktualne.mzcr.cz/covid-19
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Andy_JS said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    My Facebook promoting a most overrated band/artist thread, so rather than provoke hatred amongst a group of genuine strangers, I will state my nomination and provoke hatred in OGH's friendly little cantina.

    Weller, post-1982. What was the point of all that?

    Post 95 I’d say. But Wild Wood is a great album, Stanley Road not bad, and TSC made good songs

    I don’t really like the early Jam, apart from Inthe City and I got by in time - but Sound Affects is one of my favourite albums. When I joined UKIP I felt a bit like ‘Set the House Ablaze’ was too close to home.
    The Style Council. WYF was that all about? I remember in 88 or 89 when I started buying the Melody Maker they had a feature “Mick Talbot Fan Club Corner” which I maintain is the funniest thing I ever read.
    The Style Council were Paul Weller's new group after he disbanded The Jam at the end of 1982. Their first single was Speak Like A Child in March 1983. They were very big until about 1987.
    It was more of a rhetorical question but you are of course quite correct,
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    We need a thread on Sturgeon specifically.. I would gate anyone to think that her faulty memory would be the end of it...

    Suggest OGH commissions Malcy to write the introductory essay on Sturgeon. Would make an interesting read...
    The evidence released today should have been available yesterday and to be honest Sturgeon must be clinging on at present dreading the two reports to come out

    Her star dust is certainly tarnished, but I have to say that from the very start I did not think Salmond or Malc had a case but I was wrong and they have both been vindicated

    A thread by Malc would be very interesting and useful
    Interesting certainly.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:


    Help, please, pb brains trust,

    What is the best book on politics to buy for my 15 year old niece, whose birthday is later this month ?

    (She dislikes Thatcher & Boris).

    The Complete Yes Minister, if it’s still in print, is still eminently readable.

    Edit - it is still in print, apparently.
    Well of course it is. Would you expect the Bible to go out of print?
    That would be quite a Job.
    A Revelation surely!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    992k tests?!
    Pillar 2, which is the government Lighthouse Labs and other private labs, is doing a huge part of all the testing now. It's nuts just how huge that capacity has grown, as almost all of it is new.

    Hancock today was talking about sequencing scaling up even further from where it is now, so that we can ideally test every positive result. We already do far more sequencing than anybody else, and we intend to do even more.

    When this is all over the UK is going to have a ridiculously huge testing and genetic sequencing capability. I wonder what we will do with it, tear it down, mothball it, or is there are "peacetime" use?
    Difficult to say. Some people are quite excited about using this to promote a permanent cultural shift in attitudes to respiratory illnesses - basically, to try to break the culture of presenteeism and encourage people who come down with flu-like symptoms not to go to work and cough all over everybody, but to stay home and order a test. I think that the boffins would rather like to drive down rates of flu and Covid every Winter simply by persuading the sick to stay out of circulation until they get better, and thus consign the annual NHS Winter Crisis to the dustbin of history.

    Personally I don't think it has a chance of success even if attempted, because of a combination of crap sick pay and crap employers, but it's an idea that has some merit in theory.
    I think that would be fantastic.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    edited March 2021
    For the book, I think I would suggest Bad News, by Mark Pack.

    About how the media works, and the mistakes it makes.

    Adjacent to politics, but entwined with it. And a measure of skepticism is important.

    Any recommendations by women?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    DougSeal said:

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    I think we must be close to bringing this outbreak under control.
    Lets see what happens when schools go back.....
    I expect not much to happen. Like June last year.

    There's no Fresher's Week next week.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    Difficult to say. Some people are quite excited about using this to promote a permanent cultural shift in attitudes to respiratory illnesses - basically, to try to break the culture of presenteeism and encourage people who come down with flu-like symptoms not to go to work and cough all over everybody, but to stay home and order a test. I think that the boffins would rather like to drive down rates of flu and Covid every Winter simply by persuading the sick to stay out of circulation until they get better, and thus consign the annual NHS Winter Crisis to the dustbin of history.

    Personally I don't think it has a chance of success even if attempted, because of a combination of crap sick pay and crap employers, but it's an idea that has some merit in theory.

    That does sound like quite a good idea. It would be nice to think that public health becomes a more prominent part of our healthcare system. I also wonder about what else we might be able to treat or prevent if we made a concerted effort similar in size as to what has been done to fight COVID-19.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,833
    Leon said:

    My hair is insane and ridiculous. Has anyone ever successfully cut their own hair? Is it possible?

    Yes not difficult to get it to an acceptable level, only takes about 10-15 minutes. Top tip is check you have the right length clippers before you start.....
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 799
    Thank you, @Leon for the 'just book it anyway' tip. I've managed to book an appointment for Wednesday and am only 34 (albeit in group 6, but have had no communications whatsoever from NHS)
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725

    We need a thread on Sturgeon specifically.. I would gate anyone to think that her faulty memory would be the end of it...

    Suggest OGH commissions Malcy to write the introductory essay on Sturgeon. Would make an interesting read...
    The evidence released today should have been available yesterday and to be honest Sturgeon must be clinging on at present dreading the two reports to come out

    Her star dust is certainly tarnished, but I have to say that from the very start I did not think Salmond or Malc had a case but I was wrong and they have both been vindicated

    A thread by Malc would be very interesting and useful
    Seconded
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    One question for the vaccination program is when are prisoners done ? Some of the highest MSOAs have prisons in them. And there are large numbers of civvy staff that are at risk if they're not vaccinated.
    All in prison at once, or age by age (Which would be inefficient for them). Slip them alongside the 40-49 cohort perhaps ?...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725
    Scott_xP said:
    Daily jackboot doesn't like Boris.. move on....
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,779


    Help, please, pb brains trust,

    What is the best book on politics to buy for my 15 year old niece, whose birthday is later this month ?

    (She dislikes Thatcher & Boris).

    For a modern and very readable introduction type book I really enjoyed Isabel Hardman's one 'Why we get the wrong politicians'. I also really liked reading Paddy Ashdown's autobiography, but almost certainly not enough politics in it.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Daily jackboot doesn't like Boris.. move on....
    And it has been ordered to display a front page apology to Megan
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    stodge said:


    Having had the dubious pleasure of reading his posts throughout, I'm confident that I'm not mischaracterizing his position - it really is that extreme. As many people have said, there are legitimate arguments to be had about where the balance is struck between liberty and safety - I tend to lean on the safety side because as we've seen mass behaviour has tended to swing between panic and complacency, with little capacity for adhering to a middle ground - but contrarian's absolutism makes him the worst possible advocate for those arguments.

    Make people frightened enough and they'll do anything including sign away their freedom and their liberty.

    Terrorism (hence its name) isn't about the actual physical attacks but about the propagation of a climate of fear which provokes a response from Government. Every time there's an attack plenty stand up and say the Government "must do something to keep us safe" so a little more freedom is taken and a little more control is given to the security State and in truth we're no safer even though we "feel" safer.

    The virus was a form of terrorism - it wasn't about the physicality of the virus. In truth, the numbers infected and the numbers lost (terrible as they both are) weren't a direct threat to the societal fabric mandating a severe response - had the virus been much more transmissible and killed 75% of those infected, we'd have seen a really severe response.

    Yet, the fear of the virus was enough - the accounts of what it could do and how you would die from it were enough. I know I was scared because at my time of life and in my health it wasn't a risk I was prepared to take. Call me risk averse if you like but it's my life and I've only got one so I'll be as risk averse as I want.

    Whether, in a society dominated by older people, that risk averse response was wholly appropriate is something we will debate for some time to come. Should Government have imposed lockdown on society or should it have merely "suggested" it? I know from my surroundings for example there are many people who would have no choice about going to work - they need the job and the money to survive and if their employer tells them they have to report to work that's what they do - put simply, I could afford to be risk averse, not everyone can.
    There was the closing down of shops and hospitality etc but other than that the "restrictions" were in essence voluntary. It wasn't actively policed. Most of the things that were illegal were illegal like taping off the radio used to be illegal. Maybe still is, not sure.

    I never for one minute felt I couldn't meet friends and family, stay over, have visitors, go out whenever I wanted, walk around, drive around. Some of this I did. Some I didn't. And whether I did or I didn't depended not one iota on what Boris Johnson or Matt Hancock were telling me but just on my own assessment of the risk, informed by data on the virus, and the opinions of people close to me.

    So I get a slight sense of unreality sometimes when I observe the extremes of this debate.

    The ban on visiting people in care is the exception. That has always struck me as harsh in the extreme and not warranted.
    GM police used to proudly tweet about how they had broken up childrens' birthday parties. It was enthusiastically policed. I saw officers sending home those they saw outside who they decided weren't 'exercising'.
    LD1 was pretty universally observed, in my experience, whether we thought it a good idea or not.
    We're not - we weren't - a nation of lawbreakers. Presenting us with contemptible laws has led to us treating the law with contempt. It's not a great position to be in.
    That doesn't scan. If we all complied then we didn't treat the law with contempt. And it wasn't policed very assiduously. Only blatant take the piss breaches were stamped on. The exceptions to that were so few they all got reported in the media.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,833

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    992k tests?!
    Pillar 2, which is the government Lighthouse Labs and other private labs, is doing a huge part of all the testing now. It's nuts just how huge that capacity has grown, as almost all of it is new.

    Hancock today was talking about sequencing scaling up even further from where it is now, so that we can ideally test every positive result. We already do far more sequencing than anybody else, and we intend to do even more.

    When this is all over the UK is going to have a ridiculously huge testing and genetic sequencing capability. I wonder what we will do with it, tear it down, mothball it, or is there are "peacetime" use?
    Difficult to say. Some people are quite excited about using this to promote a permanent cultural shift in attitudes to respiratory illnesses - basically, to try to break the culture of presenteeism and encourage people who come down with flu-like symptoms not to go to work and cough all over everybody, but to stay home and order a test. I think that the boffins would rather like to drive down rates of flu and Covid every Winter simply by persuading the sick to stay out of circulation until they get better, and thus consign the annual NHS Winter Crisis to the dustbin of history.

    Personally I don't think it has a chance of success even if attempted, because of a combination of crap sick pay and crap employers, but it's an idea that has some merit in theory.
    Why we allow bad employers to get away with the pathetic statutory sick pay I have no idea. Employers should pay at least the first week per year in full, themselves. Surely this would be a vote winner all round?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    Pulpstar said:

    One question for the vaccination program is when are prisoners done ? Some of the highest MSOAs have prisons in them. And there are large numbers of civvy staff that are at risk if they're not vaccinated.
    All in prison at once, or age by age (Which would be inefficient for them). Slip them alongside the 40-49 cohort perhaps ?...

    I thought there was an announcement about this a week or two ago. All prisoners will be done at once in a prison.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    glw said:

    Difficult to say. Some people are quite excited about using this to promote a permanent cultural shift in attitudes to respiratory illnesses - basically, to try to break the culture of presenteeism and encourage people who come down with flu-like symptoms not to go to work and cough all over everybody, but to stay home and order a test. I think that the boffins would rather like to drive down rates of flu and Covid every Winter simply by persuading the sick to stay out of circulation until they get better, and thus consign the annual NHS Winter Crisis to the dustbin of history.

    Personally I don't think it has a chance of success even if attempted, because of a combination of crap sick pay and crap employers, but it's an idea that has some merit in theory.

    That does sound like quite a good idea. It would be nice to think that public health becomes a more prominent part of our healthcare system. I also wonder about what else we might be able to treat or prevent if we made a concerted effort similar in size as to what has been done to fight COVID-19.
    The number one target for any public health campaign, now that smoking has been marginalised, should be obesity.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Pulpstar said:

    One question for the vaccination program is when are prisoners done ? Some of the highest MSOAs have prisons in them. And there are large numbers of civvy staff that are at risk if they're not vaccinated.
    All in prison at once, or age by age (Which would be inefficient for them). Slip them alongside the 40-49 cohort perhaps ?...

    Definitely
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    I am really quite apalled by this Tesco story:
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1367951689874108422

    Groups like 'Shareaction' need to be investigated for financial links to any agribusiness concerns. So called 'plant based alternatives' to meat are simply a way for big companies to undermine peoples' access to nutrition in order to make more profits.

    Animal flesh is a complex and highly digestible mixture of essential fats, proteins, amino acids, minerals and vitamins. It cannot be replaced nutritionally by a wobbly slab of 'plant-based' gloop, and it is pseuo-science of the worst kind to suggest that it can.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,932
    .
    Scott_xP said:
    Let me guess, they want more spending?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    This Land: The Story of a Movement by Owen Jones is a good account of why Labour chose Corbyn and where and why it went wrong.

    Perfect for a 15 year old with an interest in today's politics.
  • Scott_xP said:
    To govern is to make difficult decisions
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,779

    Leon said:

    My hair is insane and ridiculous. Has anyone ever successfully cut their own hair? Is it possible?

    Yes not difficult to get it to an acceptable level, only takes about 10-15 minutes. Top tip is check you have the right length clippers before you start.....
    Even more important - make sure that they are fully charged when you start...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    Pro_Rata said:

    Pulpstar said:

    One question for the vaccination program is when are prisoners done ? Some of the highest MSOAs have prisons in them. And there are large numbers of civvy staff that are at risk if they're not vaccinated.
    All in prison at once, or age by age (Which would be inefficient for them). Slip them alongside the 40-49 cohort perhaps ?...

    Definitely
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mass-covid-vaccination-plan-for-all-prisoners-and-staff-dnsqvt70z

    Alongside 40-49 cohort. Sensible tbh
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,693
    Scott_xP said:
    The text of the article says it’s not possible to tell what is due to Brexit and what is due to the pandemic.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    992k tests?!
    Pillar 2, which is the government Lighthouse Labs and other private labs, is doing a huge part of all the testing now. It's nuts just how huge that capacity has grown, as almost all of it is new.

    Hancock today was talking about sequencing scaling up even further from where it is now, so that we can ideally test every positive result. We already do far more sequencing than anybody else, and we intend to do even more.

    When this is all over the UK is going to have a ridiculously huge testing and genetic sequencing capability. I wonder what we will do with it, tear it down, mothball it, or is there are "peacetime" use?
    Difficult to say. Some people are quite excited about using this to promote a permanent cultural shift in attitudes to respiratory illnesses - basically, to try to break the culture of presenteeism and encourage people who come down with flu-like symptoms not to go to work and cough all over everybody, but to stay home and order a test. I think that the boffins would rather like to drive down rates of flu and Covid every Winter simply by persuading the sick to stay out of circulation until they get better, and thus consign the annual NHS Winter Crisis to the dustbin of history.

    Personally I don't think it has a chance of success even if attempted, because of a combination of crap sick pay and crap employers, but it's an idea that has some merit in theory.
    Why we allow bad employers to get away with the pathetic statutory sick pay I have no idea. Employers should pay at least the first week per year in full, themselves. Surely this would be a vote winner all round?
    Not from employers!
    And that would lead to yet more pressure for presenteeism from bad employers.
    And more cost for the decent ones.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,932

    Scott_xP said:
    The text of the article says it’s not possible to tell what is due to Brexit and what is due to the pandemic.
    And the stockpiling that occurred immediately prior.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,101
    edited March 2021
    RobD said:

    .

    Scott_xP said:
    Let me guess, they want more spending?
    On the public sector of course
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,706

    Leon said:

    My hair is insane and ridiculous. Has anyone ever successfully cut their own hair? Is it possible?

    Yes not difficult to get it to an acceptable level, only takes about 10-15 minutes. Top tip is check you have the right length clippers before you start.....
    The sole single good thing that has come out of covid is I've realised I don't have to hand over money and make small talk in a barber's chair ever few weeks with someone who has completely the opposite political perspective to me, whilst they cut my hair in a way that's not really all that much better than if I clipper it myself.

    I'm probably a bit ropey on it around the back of the top of my head, but the only time I ever saw that bit was in a mirror in a barber's chair anyway, so...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,833
    Lennon said:

    Leon said:

    My hair is insane and ridiculous. Has anyone ever successfully cut their own hair? Is it possible?

    Yes not difficult to get it to an acceptable level, only takes about 10-15 minutes. Top tip is check you have the right length clippers before you start.....
    Even more important - make sure that they are fully charged when you start...
    Ah, that explains why mine have a digital level battery reading on them, thought it was a gimmicky overkill but yes running out of power halfway through could be awkward.....
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Pulpstar said:

    One question for the vaccination program is when are prisoners done ? Some of the highest MSOAs have prisons in them. And there are large numbers of civvy staff that are at risk if they're not vaccinated.
    All in prison at once, or age by age (Which would be inefficient for them). Slip them alongside the 40-49 cohort perhaps ?...

    I agree they should be done ASAP but it would be political dynamite if Ian Huntley got done before your average Joe Copper or Dave Teacher. I think they are being done by cohort but it would be not pushing a point to say many will have reached a great degree of population immunity by now.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    DougSeal said:

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    I think we must be close to bringing this outbreak under control.
    Lets see what happens when schools go back.....
    Large numbers of kids walk passed my shop every day. I'm not especially worried about schools going back because a decent percentage have been going throughout. And positivity rates are low.

    Stockbrokers, as an example, are key workers whose children are entitled to go to school.

    One thing that still baffles me is the number of tests. If I came down with a cough and a fever at the moment, I think I'd stick at home for 10 days rather than have a cotton bud stuck up my nose...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,833
    dixiedean said:

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    992k tests?!
    Pillar 2, which is the government Lighthouse Labs and other private labs, is doing a huge part of all the testing now. It's nuts just how huge that capacity has grown, as almost all of it is new.

    Hancock today was talking about sequencing scaling up even further from where it is now, so that we can ideally test every positive result. We already do far more sequencing than anybody else, and we intend to do even more.

    When this is all over the UK is going to have a ridiculously huge testing and genetic sequencing capability. I wonder what we will do with it, tear it down, mothball it, or is there are "peacetime" use?
    Difficult to say. Some people are quite excited about using this to promote a permanent cultural shift in attitudes to respiratory illnesses - basically, to try to break the culture of presenteeism and encourage people who come down with flu-like symptoms not to go to work and cough all over everybody, but to stay home and order a test. I think that the boffins would rather like to drive down rates of flu and Covid every Winter simply by persuading the sick to stay out of circulation until they get better, and thus consign the annual NHS Winter Crisis to the dustbin of history.

    Personally I don't think it has a chance of success even if attempted, because of a combination of crap sick pay and crap employers, but it's an idea that has some merit in theory.
    Why we allow bad employers to get away with the pathetic statutory sick pay I have no idea. Employers should pay at least the first week per year in full, themselves. Surely this would be a vote winner all round?
    Not from employers!
    And that would lead to yet more pressure for presenteeism from bad employers.
    And more cost for the decent ones.
    I speak as an employer, a decent one, that offers the standard deal of you get paid when your sick for a few days as normal. And doesnt like subsidising the ones who cant be bothered.

    A lot of presenteeism is driven by people not being able to afford unpaid days off.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    DougSeal said:

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    992k tests?!
    Pillar 2, which is the government Lighthouse Labs and other private labs, is doing a huge part of all the testing now. It's nuts just how huge that capacity has grown, as almost all of it is new.

    Hancock today was talking about sequencing scaling up even further from where it is now, so that we can ideally test every positive result. We already do far more sequencing than anybody else, and we intend to do even more.

    When this is all over the UK is going to have a ridiculously huge testing and genetic sequencing capability. I wonder what we will do with it, tear it down, mothball it, or is there are "peacetime" use?
    Difficult to say. Some people are quite excited about using this to promote a permanent cultural shift in attitudes to respiratory illnesses - basically, to try to break the culture of presenteeism and encourage people who come down with flu-like symptoms not to go to work and cough all over everybody, but to stay home and order a test. I think that the boffins would rather like to drive down rates of flu and Covid every Winter simply by persuading the sick to stay out of circulation until they get better, and thus consign the annual NHS Winter Crisis to the dustbin of history.

    Personally I don't think it has a chance of success even if attempted, because of a combination of crap sick pay and crap employers, but it's an idea that has some merit in theory.
    I think that would be fantastic.
    On the sequencing capacity, is this also part of the infrastructure required for personalised genetic treatments?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited March 2021

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    992k tests?!
    Pillar 2, which is the government Lighthouse Labs and other private labs, is doing a huge part of all the testing now. It's nuts just how huge that capacity has grown, as almost all of it is new.

    Hancock today was talking about sequencing scaling up even further from where it is now, so that we can ideally test every positive result. We already do far more sequencing than anybody else, and we intend to do even more.

    When this is all over the UK is going to have a ridiculously huge testing and genetic sequencing capability. I wonder what we will do with it, tear it down, mothball it, or is there are "peacetime" use?
    Difficult to say. Some people are quite excited about using this to promote a permanent cultural shift in attitudes to respiratory illnesses - basically, to try to break the culture of presenteeism and encourage people who come down with flu-like symptoms not to go to work and cough all over everybody, but to stay home and order a test. I think that the boffins would rather like to drive down rates of flu and Covid every Winter simply by persuading the sick to stay out of circulation until they get better, and thus consign the annual NHS Winter Crisis to the dustbin of history.

    Personally I don't think it has a chance of success even if attempted, because of a combination of crap sick pay and crap employers, but it's an idea that has some merit in theory.
    Why we allow bad employers to get away with the pathetic statutory sick pay I have no idea. Employers should pay at least the first week per year in full, themselves. Surely this would be a vote winner all round?
    There are two separate issues at work here. One is SSP - and there's no need to bash employers (which don't always operate on particularly large profit margins) over the head on this one. SSP is funded by the taxpayer; the Government simply needs to make it substantially more generous. As has been pointed out repeatedly during the pandemic, there's no point in telling people on low incomes who come down the Covid symptoms that it is their duty to self-isolate, if doing so means that they can no longer afford to feed themselves or their children. Many will keep going to work anyway because they are forced to.

    The other problem concerns employers who are paranoid about skiving, and operate Draconian sickness and absence policies accordingly. Even if sick pay is good, employees will nonetheless avoid calling in sick if breaching whatever limits their employer sets on acceptable levels of absence means being put onto an automated conveyor belt of health capability reviews and threatened with disciplinary sanctions. This does happen, even in otherwise quite reasonable businesses. I've both seen and suffered from it myself in the past. And that's without bringing the genuinely bad employers into the equation, too.

    Getting the contagious ill out of the workplace requires much better sick pay and reformed attitudes amongst business and the workforce alike. It'd be quite a challenge to take on.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited March 2021

    Lennon said:

    Leon said:

    My hair is insane and ridiculous. Has anyone ever successfully cut their own hair? Is it possible?

    Yes not difficult to get it to an acceptable level, only takes about 10-15 minutes. Top tip is check you have the right length clippers before you start.....
    Even more important - make sure that they are fully charged when you start...
    Ah, that explains why mine have a digital level battery reading on them, thought it was a gimmicky overkill but yes running out of power halfway through could be awkward.....
    Had some clippers break completley on me right after the first pass down the middle of the head. It was either accept a reverse mohawk, or spend hours with scissors trying to cut it down to the lowest grade clippers could manage.

    It was a right pain and looked like crap, but it was still better than a reverse mohawk.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,059
    edited March 2021
    Well, not commenting on it yeserday is a valid criticism, but don't they have a point?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    Leon said:

    My hair is insane and ridiculous. Has anyone ever successfully cut their own hair? Is it possible?

    Yes not difficult to get it to an acceptable level, only takes about 10-15 minutes. Top tip is check you have the right length clippers before you start.....
    The sole single good thing that has come out of covid is I've realised I don't have to hand over money and make small talk in a barber's chair ever few weeks with someone who has completely the opposite political perspective to me, whilst they cut my hair in a way that's not really all that much better than if I clipper it myself.

    I'm probably a bit ropey on it around the back of the top of my head, but the only time I ever saw that bit was in a mirror in a barber's chair anyway, so...
    Yes I was thinking exactly this might be the case. Even if 20% fewer blokes go to the barber, there are going to be gaps on the high st. More gaps.

    Frankly, I'd say 40% of my mates are happier with their other halve's doing it.

    My gf, her mother and my mother have all offered to cut mine. I have politely declined. The mane survives. I saw it as a perfect excuse to finally have longer hair, whilst I can. Today I was compared to wolverine and, weirdly, King John, on a Zoom call.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,833
    kle4 said:

    Lennon said:

    Leon said:

    My hair is insane and ridiculous. Has anyone ever successfully cut their own hair? Is it possible?

    Yes not difficult to get it to an acceptable level, only takes about 10-15 minutes. Top tip is check you have the right length clippers before you start.....
    Even more important - make sure that they are fully charged when you start...
    Ah, that explains why mine have a digital level battery reading on them, thought it was a gimmicky overkill but yes running out of power halfway through could be awkward.....
    Had some clippers break completly on me right after the first pass down the middle of the head. It was either accept a reverse mohawk, or spend hours with scissors trying to cut it down to the lowest grade clippers could manage.

    It was a right pain and looked like crap, but it was still better than a reverse mohawk.
    So we need backup clippers too! Wish I hadnt read this thread now....
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,059

    Scott_xP said:
    The text of the article says it’s not possible to tell what is due to Brexit and what is due to the pandemic.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e7wbs_xfas
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,212
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The whole saga is ridiculous. Both Airbus and Boeing receive massive subsidies, and then each complains the ones the other recieves.
    Yep but the EU subsidies Airbus in ways that the US Government won't (outright cash) while the US does it via paying multiple times the odds for Government Projects.
    Oh, Boeing is subsidised in more ways than that!
    They have strayed into British Leyland territory, but I don't know the finances. Care to elaborate?
    They also get direct R&D grants and the US government guarantees Boeing will get paid by certain less creditworthy customers.
    Tbf, European countries also give Airbus export guarantees and finance as well.
    Oh, Airbus is appallingly subsidised too - quite probably more in aggregate that Boeing.

    I just get annoyed that both of them bitch about the other being subsidised while trousering billions of government money.
    Yeah I know it's ridiculous. It's like doper Dwain Chambers complaining he's got to race against doper Justin Gatlin.
    The upfront costs and risks of developing new generations of large airliners is large enough to make it extremely difficult to do so without some form if government support. Though there are very large profits to be made if really successful, you have to stay in the game to be in the game.

    And if we and/or the US leave it to the market, then the Chinese will be happy to take up the slack. It’s a strategic industry, which employs very large numbers of skilled workers, and there’s no easy alternative to the current setup.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:



    Dura Ace is antivax as well. Which is really odd as he seems of a scientific bent, and is obviously smart

    I won't have it because it's tested on animals. That's it.
    So you don't have any medicines tested on animals? That's about all of them. RIP Dura Ace
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    DougSeal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    One question for the vaccination program is when are prisoners done ? Some of the highest MSOAs have prisons in them. And there are large numbers of civvy staff that are at risk if they're not vaccinated.
    All in prison at once, or age by age (Which would be inefficient for them). Slip them alongside the 40-49 cohort perhaps ?...

    I agree they should be done ASAP but it would be political dynamite if Ian Huntley got done before your average Joe Copper or Dave Teacher. I think they are being done by cohort but it would be not pushing a point to say many will have reached a great degree of population immunity by now.
    "“Prisoners will not be getting priority. At the moment they are vaccinated in accordance with the current guidelines, in accordance with what is happening in the community,” - Justice Sec to LBC the other day.

    So it seems I must have imagined hearing that they would be done as a whole as soon as possible rather than by priority.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Mortimer said:

    DougSeal said:

    Under 6,000 cases from 900,000 tests:


    I think we must be close to bringing this outbreak under control.
    Lets see what happens when schools go back.....
    Large numbers of kids walk passed my shop every day. I'm not especially worried about schools going back because a decent percentage have been going throughout. And positivity rates are low.

    Stockbrokers, as an example, are key workers whose children are entitled to go to school.

    One thing that still baffles me is the number of tests. If I came down with a cough and a fever at the moment, I think I'd stick at home for 10 days rather than have a cotton bud stuck up my nose...
    Parents not giving Covid test consent, warn heads
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-56297590
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204


    Help, please, pb brains trust,

    What is the best book on politics to buy for my 15 year old niece, whose birthday is later this month ?

    (She dislikes Thatcher & Boris).

    John O'Farrell's Things Can Only Get Better: Eighteen Miserable Years in the Life of a Labour Supporter, 1979-1997

    She should find his predicament fairly relatable, and it's quite amusingly written.
    Yes that's brilliant. My Owen Jones one is not as good as that but it's more now. Either would work really. Key point is they are both about Labour. Bright 15 year olds don't want to read about the Conservatives.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    I am really quite apalled by this Tesco story:
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1367951689874108422

    Groups like 'Shareaction' need to be investigated for financial links to any agribusiness concerns. So called 'plant based alternatives' to meat are simply a way for big companies to undermine peoples' access to nutrition in order to make more profits.

    Animal flesh is a complex and highly digestible mixture of essential fats, proteins, amino acids, minerals and vitamins. It cannot be replaced nutritionally by a wobbly slab of 'plant-based' gloop, and it is pseuo-science of the worst kind to suggest that it can.

    According to what I can make of their annual report, their biggest single contributor is the DFID. Good to know that I as a taxpayer am contributing to limit the choice of what I can buy in Tesco.

    Sigh.

    I'm going to get over it now. They will keep. :smile:
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    kinabalu said:

    This Land: The Story of a Movement by Owen Jones is a good account of why Labour chose Corbyn and where and why it went wrong.

    Perfect for a 15 year old with an interest in today's politics.

    Oh come on. I know Owen looks young, but he is way more than 15.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Scott_xP said:
    Absolutely shocking

    You should always strip the old wallpaper not cover it up
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,212
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    My hair is insane and ridiculous. Has anyone ever successfully cut their own hair? Is it possible?

    Relatively cheap clippers seem to do an ok job. You'll always miss bits though.

    Not if you’re thorough. I’ve had three self administered no.4 clips in the last nine months, and it works pretty well.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,672



    RobD said:

    .

    Scott_xP said:
    Let me guess, they want more spending?
    On the public sector of course
    Do you think 1% for health workers is fair?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,258

    Thank you, @Leon for the 'just book it anyway' tip. I've managed to book an appointment for Wednesday and am only 34 (albeit in group 6, but have had no communications whatsoever from NHS)

    Group 6 seems to have been added to the NHS website yesterday under the radar. GPs are supposed to be doing them. Either they've realised GPs are getting a bit bogged down or there's a shitload of vaccine coming next week.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    I am really quite apalled by this Tesco story:
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1367951689874108422

    Groups like 'Shareaction' need to be investigated for financial links to any agribusiness concerns. So called 'plant based alternatives' to meat are simply a way for big companies to undermine peoples' access to nutrition in order to make more profits.

    Animal flesh is a complex and highly digestible mixture of essential fats, proteins, amino acids, minerals and vitamins. It cannot be replaced nutritionally by a wobbly slab of 'plant-based' gloop, and it is pseuo-science of the worst kind to suggest that it can.

    According to what I can make of their annual report, their biggest single contributor is the DFID. Good to know that I as a taxpayer am contributing to limit the choice of what I can buy in Tesco.

    Sigh.

    I'm going to get over it now. They will keep. :smile:
    I was slightly taken aback last week. In the relatively small Sainsbos near me, there is about a 9ft wide section of different mayonaises. I mean, really?
This discussion has been closed.