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McConnell’s impeachment move means Trump looks set to serve a full term and there’ll be no President

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  • Sandpit said:

    Yep....it's gone.....

    https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1349697232019271681?s=20

    Were they too busy omitting "Oxford" that they left in stuff they shouldn't have?

    Bit late....everybody has now seen the numbers and the media have run the stories.
    Was this the numbers, or the addresses of the facilities in England that the Scottish government published?
    The plan had the numbers of vaccines to be delivered every week, from which you could easily extrapolate UK wide amounts (which is commercially sensitive).

    The location was blurted out in parliament, but I believe the media didn't report it for obvious reasons.
    Why is commercial sensitivity a concern here? There seems to be a public interest, in both senses, in knowing how many vaccines are to be available each week. Do we voters not want to make judgements about governments' handling of this by knowing what's available to them?
    I think the vaccine companies might have something to say about that. They are doing different deals with different countries. I am fairly sure there is some sort of conditions on specifics.

    Also, the public really don't need to know there are 3 million arriving on the 25th Feb. It is irrelevant. What is relevant is how many are they doing now, next week.
    ok, sure, but is that right? I get the fact that commerical sensitivity is a thing, but so is political openness. If we reach a point where availability becomes a limiting factor, won't the public have a right to know why things cannot be accelerated further?
    Well it is more than a thing if your contract with Pfizer says you aren't allowed to make public the exact numbers for future deliveries, and if you break the T&Cs they have the rights to not deliver.

    The government have made it known there are 20 odd million doses on British soil that need Q&A and bottling. If vaccinations rates fail to speed up in the next couple of weeks, then there will be questions asked, have they been Q&A'ed (and if not, why not), have they been bottled (and if not, who not), and if they have been Q&A / bottled, why aren't they reaching vaccinations centres.
    Ok, good, thanks for that.
    I think as long as we know what the rate-limited factors are that's probably good enough. And if it becomes availability, is that because of government decisions on purchases, or because the pharmas are at maximum manufacturing capacity.
    We don't want to put blame in the wrong place, if things go wrong.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    off topic

    Finished watching The Pembrokeshire Murders last night. Not a bad police procedural but simply couldn't get over Luke Evans' spooky resemblance to David Milliband.

    I liked it too. Solid. Low key. Did the job. Just like the investigation it featured.
    Moving on to Serpent now. Saw Ep.1 and it was a bit grim but will continue.

    Have been making my way steadily through Black Mirror these past few months and if ever there's a tv series not to watch right now...
    The Serpent is a great disappointment. Such potential. Cracking true story. Love the locations.

    But the narrative leaps about like a live bat in a red hot wok. Absurdly over complicated. And the accents...

    Shame.
    I was pondering setting up a spreadsheet and that was only Ep.1. Two years back...20 years forward..24 years back...two years forward...

    sheesh.
    It gets WORSE in episode 2. That’s where I gave up
    It was a bit dark and horrible for me to be honest. Won't be watching the rest. The idea that he apparently got away with this is quite disturbing.
    It felt like a mediocre European co-production. The accents, the script, the lot. Big budget but weirdly dull.

    I was surprised to see it was made by Netflix/BBC

    BTW Covid is now impacting TV and movie quality, methinks. Another victim of the virus?
    Worse telly and films might be partly due to the virus (even absent studio audiences can make a difference) but perhaps also to the likes of Netflix and Amazon taking talent from Hollywood and the BBC.
    There are multiple ways the arts are going to be damaged by Covid. From lack of audiences to lack of money to lack of training for new talent to lack of international co-operation. It may take years for TV, movies, theatre, dance, etc, to recover. One of the most melancholy consequences of this wretched pest.

    Novels might get better though. A lot of writers are being forced to stay home and really use their imaginations.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dr. Blue, damn it.

    Sorry.

    Just refer to everyone as 'Comrade'. It's the best way!
    Comrade is party members only. Everyone else is 'Citizen'.
    Bloody communist elitists.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,597
    edited January 2021

    Friend of mine on WhatsApp - she tested positive for Covid a few days ago. Isn't ill.

    "On the phone to T&T. Had 3 different dates when I come out of isolation. Asked the guy which was correct as its important"
    "I don't know. I see your point, but this is my script"
    "He's gone to ask his manager"
    "His manager doesn't know what date to use"
    "The manager has asked I end the call as they can't find anyone who knows when I should come out of isolation"
    "£12bn for this"

    It isn't difficult to find the information though.

    10 days full days after the day you had the test unless any symptoms persist:
    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/self-isolation-and-treatment/how-long-to-self-isolate/
    It is not hard to find, however, it is a world where 40% of Americans cant find the correct election result. It would be better if the people at test and trace could communicate it!
    True. If they are really sat around all day (as reported) you'd think they might use some of that to read the regulations. It shouldn't need a script.

    Are they still working from home? Maybe not if asking a manager involves getting up.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450
    edited January 2021

    Sandpit said:

    Yep....it's gone.....

    https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1349697232019271681?s=20

    Were they too busy omitting "Oxford" that they left in stuff they shouldn't have?

    Bit late....everybody has now seen the numbers and the media have run the stories.
    Was this the numbers, or the addresses of the facilities in England that the Scottish government published?
    The plan had the numbers of vaccines to be delivered every week, from which you could easily extrapolate UK wide amounts (which is commercially sensitive).

    The location was blurted out in parliament, but I believe the media didn't report it for obvious reasons.
    Why is commercial sensitivity a concern here? There seems to be a public interest, in both senses, in knowing how many vaccines are to be available each week. Do we voters not want to make judgements about governments' handling of this by knowing what's available to them?
    I think the vaccine companies might have something to say about that. They are doing different deals with different countries. I am fairly sure there is some sort of conditions on specifics.

    Also, the public really don't need to know there are 3 million arriving on the 25th Feb. It is irrelevant. What is relevant is how many are they doing now, next week.
    ok, sure, but is that right? I get the fact that commerical sensitivity is a thing, but so is political openness. If we reach a point where availability becomes a limiting factor, won't the public have a right to know why things cannot be accelerated further?
    Well it is more than a thing if your contract with Pfizer says you aren't allowed to make public the exact numbers for future deliveries, and if you break the T&Cs they have the rights to not deliver.

    The government have made it known there are 20 odd million doses on British soil that need Q&A and bottling. If vaccinations rates fail to speed up in the next couple of weeks, then there will be questions asked, have they been Q&A'ed (and if not, why not), have they been bottled (and if not, who not), and if they have been Q&A / bottled, why aren't they reaching vaccinations centres.
    We need a big number today Francis, 270k+ ––– or I will be back with my cricket analogies!
    I have always been working on the expectation they won't make mid-Feb, but won't miss it by miles and miles. There are so many moving parts, so many things that can slow it down enough.

    What we do want to see is come mid Feb that it is flying. Regular supply of 3+ million a week and that is getting translated into that being basically used up immediately. Then hopefully come April, we will start to get Moderna and J&J supply, and be able to expand even further.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Premier League: Aston Villa v Everton postponed because of Covid outbreak - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55644144

    This is the second one we've had postponed due to the other team. We've not had a single positive.
    Play youth team as in FA Cup. Or forfeit.
    There seems to be no punishment or sanction.
    Meanwhile, we've got a fixture pile up.
    Unfair!
    The problem of footballers misbehaving isn’t going to go away, unless there’s a sporting sanction that wakes up the club chairmen.

    Play the youth team or forfeit the match.
    Just vaccinate all the sodding footballers.
    With bromide.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    London appears to be lagging behind in England's vaccine race, the latest data has revealed.

    According to new regional data released today by the NHS, the Midlands, North East and Yorkshire and the South East have seen the highest numbers of vaccinations between December 8 and January 10.

    More than 447,329 doses (including first and second jabs) have been administered in the Midlands while the North East and Yorkshire has seen 433,045 doses and the South East has seen 411,257.

    In contrast the fewest (236,023) have been handed out in the East of England, while London has seen 237,524 doses. The South West has seen 285,332 doses.

    I dare say that London has a greater proportion of Group 10 (low risk) individuals than any other region. Younger, fitter, slimmer population.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,597
    edited January 2021
    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    I can confirm that there are still vaccination centres being built, so there's definitely some ramping up in the pipeline.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450
    edited January 2021
    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    One slight concern in that leaked info, a 2 week "break" period where they expected no new vaccines to be delivered. Now that might have just been a mistake, but bit worrying if that is the case.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    Now THAT is more bloody like it!

    Let's see if they can deliver on it.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    The killer issue here is that no-one understood how bad the introduction of paperwork was going to be.

    Say what?

    Small children in Dumbarton knew exactly how the fuck bad the introduction of paperwork was going to be.
    Our Government didn't otherwise we wouldn't be in this mess.
    We all knew. Have you forgotten about the famous impact reports that spelt out how the impact of non tariff barriers was greater than the impact of tariffs?

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/971719855182434306
    If Faisal, Scott, or anyone else thinks this is getting any traction with the public while this covid crisis is utterly dominating everyone at present then they are deluded
    Quite, but this will be a slow burn that will continue for the forseeable future. People will gradually hear more about it as businesses incur more costs and, in some cases, close down completely as they can no longer sell profitably to the EU. And of course many significant areas of economic activity, like financial services, are now at the EU's mercy since the terms of future trading are largely unknown and subject to side agreements over which the UK has no leverage.
    Or, there will be a period of quite severe hassle and cost, followed by a couple of years of wearisome readjustment, then we will adapt and realise there are actually some serious benefits and new opportunities - which there will be. And Brexit will recede forever.

    The best analogy is a painful divorce from an unhappy but long lasting marriage. You have to split the house. All those shared possessions. Who gets them? Ugh. You move somewhere smaller. You miss the big garden. You don’t miss the endless bickering...

    Then you realise you are now free. Self reliant. You meet someone else. You have fun again.



    Or you belatedly realise she was the love of your life. All the hot chicks you thought would flock your way think you're just a sad weird old man. You still have to meet your ex wife all the time to discuss boring custody and alimony issues - the same arguing as before, but without the make up sex afterwards. She seems to be managing fine without you. You find yourself increasingly reliant on specialist hand crafted sex toys to find any joy in life. As you tuck into another tasteless TV dinner for one, binge watching Cash in the Attic and fingering the flint dildo, you find yourself asking, where did it all go wrong?
    Lol. Nicely done.

    Except that, of course, the EU was never ‘the love of my life’ for anyone but ScottP. The idea is preposterous. We only married for money, not for love, and that was the problem. Those kind of marriages are always somewhat toxic and generally doomed in the long term. So the rest of the analogy falls away.
    I would say it was more like one of those marriages where you were never a perfect fit but over time you could have come to a deep and lasting love. But you had this stupid pisshead mate, let's call him Nigel, who kept telling you that she was a fucking bitch, pointing out all her small flaws, and telling you you'd be better off without her. Since the divorce Nigel doesn't seem to want to meet up anymore. Someone even told you he'd started dating your ex. Why did I ever listen to Nigel, you think, as another evening of debasing, joyless solo sex with your bespoke flint accessories beckons.
    That one wasn’t as good as it is so clearly untrue. A ‘deep and lasting love’, for the EU???

    As spouses go the EU was a manipulative liar, but he earned decent money, even if he spent too much of it on booze. His conversation was boring, the sex was awful, yet his cash provided a big shiny house. He kept promising to mend his ways, the drinking and the lies, yet never did.

    We tolerated all of this - a sterile marriage to a feckless boor - because divorce seemed so daunting. And that new bathroom was so big.

    But then he started making demands on us, ordering us to stay home and cook, or to do all the housework in the nude while he languidly masturbated on the sofa we both paid for. Then he said, during yet another awful boozy dinner, that he wanted a threesome with the neighbour’s uncle.

    That’s when we left.
    What shiny house did the EU ever provide? We never became a beneficiary even with Maggie's rebate.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Sandpit said:

    Yep....it's gone.....

    https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1349697232019271681?s=20

    Were they too busy omitting "Oxford" that they left in stuff they shouldn't have?

    Bit late....everybody has now seen the numbers and the media have run the stories.
    Was this the numbers, or the addresses of the facilities in England that the Scottish government published?
    The plan had the numbers of vaccines to be delivered every week, from which you could easily extrapolate UK wide amounts (which is commercially sensitive).

    The location was blurted out in parliament, but I believe the media didn't report it for obvious reasons.
    Why is commercial sensitivity a concern here? There seems to be a public interest, in both senses, in knowing how many vaccines are to be available each week. Do we voters not want to make judgements about governments' handling of this by knowing what's available to them?
    I think the vaccine companies might have something to say about that. They are doing different deals with different countries. I am fairly sure there is some sort of conditions on specifics.

    Also, the public really don't need to know there are 3 million arriving on the 25th Feb. It is irrelevant. What is relevant is how many are they doing now, next week.
    ok, sure, but is that right? I get the fact that commerical sensitivity is a thing, but so is political openness. If we reach a point where availability becomes a limiting factor, won't the public have a right to know why things cannot be accelerated further?
    Well it is more than a thing if your contract with Pfizer says you aren't allowed to make public the exact numbers for future deliveries, and if you break the T&Cs they have the rights to not deliver.

    The government have made it known there are 20 odd million doses on British soil that need Q&A and bottling. If vaccinations rates fail to speed up in the next couple of weeks, then there will be questions asked, have they been Q&A'ed (and if not, why not), have they been bottled (and if not, who not), and if they have been Q&A / bottled, why aren't they reaching vaccinations centres.
    We need a big number today Francis, 270k+ ––– or I will be back with my cricket analogies!
    A ‘Daddy double-century’?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    Photographer friend of mine has just been given an assignment. We have both agreed it is the worst commission he’s ever had. He has to go out this afternoon in the freezing winter sleet to photograph a food bank in Tottenham, during a deadly global plague. It just edges out the Haiti earthquake job.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    One slight concern in that leaked info, a 2 week "break" period where they expected no new vaccines to be delivered. Now that might have just been a mistake, but bit worrying if that is the case.
    It seems unlikely.
  • "We don't want to put blame in the wrong place, if things go wrong."

    new around here?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited January 2021

    Phil said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "This isn’t a moment for gloating and revenge
    Trump should be punished for inciting the Capitol violence but Democrats would be wise to prioritise national healing
    David Aaronovitch" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/this-isn-t-a-moment-for-gloating-and-revenge-rptt07wpg

    And that has been my argument this morning
    If there are no consequences, what’s to stop politicians trying again in the future? After all, they learned that nothing would happen to them if they failed the first time, so it makes it even more likely that they’ll try again.

    No. Inciting armed insurrection against the democratic transfer of power is a step to far for the "lets all forget about it and move forward" option. There have to be consequences, or else we’ll be going through all this again, but worse in the future.

    (Frankly, I suspect we’ll be going through this again anyway, but it’ll be /worse/ if we don’t start showing some backbone, so best to get on with it.)
    Saw a tweet yesterday that mentioned that Hitler was originally given 5 years for the Munich putsch but was released after one in the interests of healing and reconciliation. Much healing and many reconciliations followed.
    I think the healing can only start when he makes a statement to his base that the election was not fraudulent. Something simple and clear, not hedged with arch undertone, nor looking like a hostage video where he's stiff and reading it out. If this is not forthcoming, forget about it, the "healing" talk will remain as pseudy bollox from people who feel they have to say something but are unable to say anything interesting or useful.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Stocky said:

    "and they're better and happier fish for it" - nice - he`s a card isn`t he?
    I think your spellchecker accidentally swapped t and u for c and a.
  • eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
  • Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Premier League: Aston Villa v Everton postponed because of Covid outbreak - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55644144

    This is the second one we've had postponed due to the other team. We've not had a single positive.
    Play youth team as in FA Cup. Or forfeit.
    There seems to be no punishment or sanction.
    Meanwhile, we've got a fixture pile up.
    Unfair!
    The problem of footballers misbehaving isn’t going to go away, unless there’s a sporting sanction that wakes up the club chairmen.

    Play the youth team or forfeit the match.
    I'd add that if there's evidence of a player breaking the bubble, they are treated as if self-isolating and are not allowed to train/play for 10 days.
  • eek said:

    Going back to Trump - one reason why he is attacking Rudy https://twitter.com/davepell/status/1349603201087991809

    How much of the blame for the speech last Wednesday can he spread elsewhere.

    You would have thought Republicans might learn that running with Trump doesnt stop you being attacked by him, it merely delays it. To stop getting attacked by him they have to take away his power.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Sandpit said:

    Yep....it's gone.....

    https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1349697232019271681?s=20

    Were they too busy omitting "Oxford" that they left in stuff they shouldn't have?

    Bit late....everybody has now seen the numbers and the media have run the stories.
    Was this the numbers, or the addresses of the facilities in England that the Scottish government published?
    The plan had the numbers of vaccines to be delivered every week, from which you could easily extrapolate UK wide amounts (which is commercially sensitive).

    The location was blurted out in parliament, but I believe the media didn't report it for obvious reasons.
    Why is commercial sensitivity a concern here? There seems to be a public interest, in both senses, in knowing how many vaccines are to be available each week. Do we voters not want to make judgements about governments' handling of this by knowing what's available to them?
    I think the vaccine companies might have something to say about that. They are doing different deals with different countries. I am fairly sure there is some sort of conditions on specifics.

    Also, the public really don't need to know there are 3 million arriving on the 25th Feb. It is irrelevant. What is relevant is how many are they doing now, next week.
    ok, sure, but is that right? I get the fact that commerical sensitivity is a thing, but so is political openness. If we reach a point where availability becomes a limiting factor, won't the public have a right to know why things cannot be accelerated further?
    Well it is more than a thing if your contract with Pfizer says you aren't allowed to make public the exact numbers for future deliveries, and if you break the T&Cs they have the rights to not deliver.

    The government have made it known there are 20 odd million doses on British soil that need Q&A and bottling. If vaccinations rates fail to speed up in the next couple of weeks, then there will be questions asked, have they been Q&A'ed (and if not, why not), have they been bottled (and if not, who not), and if they have been Q&A / bottled, why aren't they reaching vaccinations centres.
    We need a big number today Francis, 270k+ ––– or I will be back with my cricket analogies!
    A ‘Daddy double-century’?
    We need Daddy Treble Tons pretty soon! :)
  • MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    Good.

    That's the rate we need to be going at. When people were being sceptical about 2m a week I thought it would have to be just a staging post to getting towards even higher figures.

    The early data out of Israel looks promising that this is working there in reducing the load and so we should soon start seeing a real impact in this country too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "This isn’t a moment for gloating and revenge
    Trump should be punished for inciting the Capitol violence but Democrats would be wise to prioritise national healing
    David Aaronovitch" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/this-isn-t-a-moment-for-gloating-and-revenge-rptt07wpg

    And that has been my argument this morning
    Since it's behind a paywall, it might help enlighten us all if we know what punishment Aaronovitch has in mind.
    A very quick summary

    Punish Trump for his lies but don't make it a witchhunt.
    I'm not sure "telling lies" breaks any law.

    For American democracy's sake the "winner" in all this has to be "the rule of law" - and those who broke it, or incited the breaking of it, should face justice.

    This "it's time to heal (and ignore previous law breaking)" smacks of murdering your parents then pleading for leniency as an orphan.
    Yes, its all very well talking of taking the high road and of course any congressional process needs to be focused on recent events not a general complaint about Trumps behaviour, but it isn't taking the high road to ignore crimes.

    That's not being the better person in an attempt to heal. It's doing a disservice to the public and the constitution by taking an easy and quieter way out rather than undertake a duty to hold the president to account, even for actions in his last days.

    Its the appearance of high mindedness only.
  • MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    Good.

    That's the rate we need to be going at. When people were being sceptical about 2m a week I thought it would have to be just a staging post to getting towards even higher figures.

    The early data out of Israel looks promising that this is working there in reducing the load and so we should soon start seeing a real impact in this country too.
    If it true they get all care home residents done in the next few days, that will also be a huge win.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,456
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    off topic

    Finished watching The Pembrokeshire Murders last night. Not a bad police procedural but simply couldn't get over Luke Evans' spooky resemblance to David Milliband.

    I liked it too. Solid. Low key. Did the job. Just like the investigation it featured.
    Moving on to Serpent now. Saw Ep.1 and it was a bit grim but will continue.

    Have been making my way steadily through Black Mirror these past few months and if ever there's a tv series not to watch right now...
    The Serpent is a great disappointment. Such potential. Cracking true story. Love the locations.

    But the narrative leaps about like a live bat in a red hot wok. Absurdly over complicated. And the accents...

    Shame.
    I was pondering setting up a spreadsheet and that was only Ep.1. Two years back...20 years forward..24 years back...two years forward...

    sheesh.
    It gets WORSE in episode 2. That’s where I gave up
    It was a bit dark and horrible for me to be honest. Won't be watching the rest. The idea that he apparently got away with this is quite disturbing.
    According to Wikipedia, he did 21 years in Indian jails, and now is in jail in Nepal.
  • MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    Good.

    That's the rate we need to be going at. When people were being sceptical about 2m a week I thought it would have to be just a staging post to getting towards even higher figures.

    The early data out of Israel looks promising that this is working there in reducing the load and so we should soon start seeing a real impact in this country too.
    I've been keeping half an eye on Israel. Any links to the promising early data please?
  • The home secretary has said the government will not announce new Covid restrictions on Thursday or Friday, but did not rule out further measures being announced next week.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55663308

    Lockdown++++++ next week it is then.
  • eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    If "fishing" is so badly affected right now why is it Scottish fishermen funded by the SNP that are the only vocal ones being quoted all the time?

    Where is the outrage from English fishermen?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    edited January 2021

    eek said:

    Going back to Trump - one reason why he is attacking Rudy https://twitter.com/davepell/status/1349603201087991809

    How much of the blame for the speech last Wednesday can he spread elsewhere.

    You would have thought Republicans might learn that running with Trump doesnt stop you being attacked by him, it merely delays it. To stop getting attacked by him they have to take away his power.
    A lot of people are scared that trying to remove the Queen Bee from the hive may result in them being stung (possibly stung to death) by the worker bees the Queen controlled.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    The killer issue here is that no-one understood how bad the introduction of paperwork was going to be.

    Say what?

    Small children in Dumbarton knew exactly how the fuck bad the introduction of paperwork was going to be.
    Our Government didn't otherwise we wouldn't be in this mess.
    We all knew. Have you forgotten about the famous impact reports that spelt out how the impact of non tariff barriers was greater than the impact of tariffs?

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/971719855182434306
    If Faisal, Scott, or anyone else thinks this is getting any traction with the public while this covid crisis is utterly dominating everyone at present then they are deluded
    Quite, but this will be a slow burn that will continue for the forseeable future. People will gradually hear more about it as businesses incur more costs and, in some cases, close down completely as they can no longer sell profitably to the EU. And of course many significant areas of economic activity, like financial services, are now at the EU's mercy since the terms of future trading are largely unknown and subject to side agreements over which the UK has no leverage.
    Or, there will be a period of quite severe hassle and cost, followed by a couple of years of wearisome readjustment, then we will adapt and realise there are actually some serious benefits and new opportunities - which there will be. And Brexit will recede forever.

    The best analogy is a painful divorce from an unhappy but long lasting marriage. You have to split the house. All those shared possessions. Who gets them? Ugh. You move somewhere smaller. You miss the big garden. You don’t miss the endless bickering...

    Then you realise you are now free. Self reliant. You meet someone else. You have fun again.



    Or you belatedly realise she was the love of your life. All the hot chicks you thought would flock your way think you're just a sad weird old man. You still have to meet your ex wife all the time to discuss boring custody and alimony issues - the same arguing as before, but without the make up sex afterwards. She seems to be managing fine without you. You find yourself increasingly reliant on specialist hand crafted sex toys to find any joy in life. As you tuck into another tasteless TV dinner for one, binge watching Cash in the Attic and fingering the flint dildo, you find yourself asking, where did it all go wrong?
    Lol. Nicely done.

    Except that, of course, the EU was never ‘the love of my life’ for anyone but ScottP. The idea is preposterous. We only married for money, not for love, and that was the problem. Those kind of marriages are always somewhat toxic and generally doomed in the long term. So the rest of the analogy falls away.
    I would say it was more like one of those marriages where you were never a perfect fit but over time you could have come to a deep and lasting love. But you had this stupid pisshead mate, let's call him Nigel, who kept telling you that she was a fucking bitch, pointing out all her small flaws, and telling you you'd be better off without her. Since the divorce Nigel doesn't seem to want to meet up anymore. Someone even told you he'd started dating your ex. Why did I ever listen to Nigel, you think, as another evening of debasing, joyless solo sex with your bespoke flint accessories beckons.
    That one wasn’t as good as it is so clearly untrue. A ‘deep and lasting love’, for the EU???

    As spouses go the EU was a manipulative liar, but he earned decent money, even if he spent too much of it on booze. His conversation was boring, the sex was awful, yet his cash provided a big shiny house. He kept promising to mend his ways, the drinking and the lies, yet never did.

    We tolerated all of this - a sterile marriage to a feckless boor - because divorce seemed so daunting. And that new bathroom was so big.

    But then he started making demands on us, ordering us to stay home and cook, or to do all the housework in the nude while he languidly masturbated on the sofa we both paid for. Then he said, during yet another awful boozy dinner, that he wanted a threesome with the neighbour’s uncle.

    That’s when we left.
    Thanks both of you. It's been a while since Brexit raised a smile.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    Good.

    That's the rate we need to be going at. When people were being sceptical about 2m a week I thought it would have to be just a staging post to getting towards even higher figures.

    The early data out of Israel looks promising that this is working there in reducing the load and so we should soon start seeing a real impact in this country too.
    Thanks Philip – interesting about Israel. Do you have a good link sir?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Stocky said:

    "and they're better and happier fish for it" - nice - he`s a card isn`t he?
    I sense he really does think this sort of thing is endearing. That it shows he doesn't take himself too seriously. But it jars with me, it really does. I prefer my toffs to play it straight.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    TimT said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    off topic

    Finished watching The Pembrokeshire Murders last night. Not a bad police procedural but simply couldn't get over Luke Evans' spooky resemblance to David Milliband.

    I liked it too. Solid. Low key. Did the job. Just like the investigation it featured.
    Moving on to Serpent now. Saw Ep.1 and it was a bit grim but will continue.

    Have been making my way steadily through Black Mirror these past few months and if ever there's a tv series not to watch right now...
    The Serpent is a great disappointment. Such potential. Cracking true story. Love the locations.

    But the narrative leaps about like a live bat in a red hot wok. Absurdly over complicated. And the accents...

    Shame.
    I was pondering setting up a spreadsheet and that was only Ep.1. Two years back...20 years forward..24 years back...two years forward...

    sheesh.
    It gets WORSE in episode 2. That’s where I gave up
    It was a bit dark and horrible for me to be honest. Won't be watching the rest. The idea that he apparently got away with this is quite disturbing.
    According to Wikipedia, he did 21 years in Indian jails, and now is in jail in Nepal.
    Good to hear. He deserved that at the least.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    If "fishing" is so badly affected right now why is it Scottish fishermen funded by the SNP that are the only vocal ones being quoted all the time?

    Where is the outrage from English fishermen?
    They don't have the media contacts the Scottish fishermen have?
  • Sky - Ministers set to announce travel ban from Brazil over new variant
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited January 2021

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    Good.

    That's the rate we need to be going at. When people were being sceptical about 2m a week I thought it would have to be just a staging post to getting towards even higher figures.

    The early data out of Israel looks promising that this is working there in reducing the load and so we should soon start seeing a real impact in this country too.
    I've been keeping half an eye on Israel. Any links to the promising early data please?
    Thread here.

    https://twitter.com/eladgil/status/1349159772868603904
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Are all those processes not devolved....
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    London appears to be lagging behind in England's vaccine race, the latest data has revealed.

    According to new regional data released today by the NHS, the Midlands, North East and Yorkshire and the South East have seen the highest numbers of vaccinations between December 8 and January 10.

    More than 447,329 doses (including first and second jabs) have been administered in the Midlands while the North East and Yorkshire has seen 433,045 doses and the South East has seen 411,257.

    In contrast the fewest (236,023) have been handed out in the East of England, while London has seen 237,524 doses. The South West has seen 285,332 doses.

    I dare say that London has a greater proportion of Group 10 (low risk) individuals than any other region. Younger, fitter, slimmer population.
    Yes, I expect London has a much smaller proportion of the target groups than the population generally. 10% is probably about right.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    off topic

    Finished watching The Pembrokeshire Murders last night. Not a bad police procedural but simply couldn't get over Luke Evans' spooky resemblance to David Milliband.

    I liked it too. Solid. Low key. Did the job. Just like the investigation it featured.
    Moving on to Serpent now. Saw Ep.1 and it was a bit grim but will continue.

    Have been making my way steadily through Black Mirror these past few months and if ever there's a tv series not to watch right now...
    The Serpent is a great disappointment. Such potential. Cracking true story. Love the locations.

    But the narrative leaps about like a live bat in a red hot wok. Absurdly over complicated. And the accents...

    Shame.
    I was pondering setting up a spreadsheet and that was only Ep.1. Two years back...20 years forward..24 years back...two years forward...

    sheesh.
    It gets WORSE in episode 2. That’s where I gave up
    Sounds like a brief show called the Event right after Lost became a hit, with its heavy use of flashbacks. The Event would flash back within flashbacks, it was so incoherent.

    Playing around with narrative structure can work great, but you have to be good to pull it off.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    edited January 2021

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).

    What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.

    Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
  • MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    Good.

    That's the rate we need to be going at. When people were being sceptical about 2m a week I thought it would have to be just a staging post to getting towards even higher figures.

    The early data out of Israel looks promising that this is working there in reducing the load and so we should soon start seeing a real impact in this country too.
    I've been keeping half an eye on Israel. Any links to the promising early data please?
    Thread here.

    https://twitter.com/eladgil/status/1349159772868603904
    Perfect. Cheers.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450
    edited January 2021
    I see Gordon Brittas is at a vaccination centre yet again today....where are the tweets claiming he doesn't need to be doing that? He isn't following the guidance of stay home? etc etc etc
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    Good.

    That's the rate we need to be going at. When people were being sceptical about 2m a week I thought it would have to be just a staging post to getting towards even higher figures.

    The early data out of Israel looks promising that this is working there in reducing the load and so we should soon start seeing a real impact in this country too.
    I've been keeping half an eye on Israel. Any links to the promising early data please?

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    Good.

    That's the rate we need to be going at. When people were being sceptical about 2m a week I thought it would have to be just a staging post to getting towards even higher figures.

    The early data out of Israel looks promising that this is working there in reducing the load and so we should soon start seeing a real impact in this country too.
    I've been keeping half an eye on Israel. Any links to the promising early data please?
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-data-shows-50-reduction-in-infections-14-days-after-first-vaccine-shot/
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well speaking personally, the EU was - is - exactly my type. So score at least one for that view. It might be niche but it certainly exists.

    Submissives who like degradation are not THAT uncommon. Check FetLife.com. You might find someone else to call you names
    If degradation and name calling is your thing I know just the website for you...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    edited January 2021

    Sky - Ministers set to announce travel ban from Brazil over new variant

    It's the Hokey Cokey variant rather than a Samba variant.

    We put a travel ban in, put the travel ban out.
    In, out, in, out we shake it all about.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    The home secretary has said the government will not announce new Covid restrictions on Thursday or Friday, but did not rule out further measures being announced next week.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55663308

    Lockdown++++++ next week it is then.

    I don't think so. Usually it's - 2pm: "no more restrictions" 5pm: more restrictions.

    They have learned to move more quickly but I think they are seeing if the vaccine will affect numbers and whether cases/hospitalisations stabilise.
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    If "fishing" is so badly affected right now why is it Scottish fishermen funded by the SNP that are the only vocal ones being quoted all the time?

    Where is the outrage from English fishermen?
    They don't have the media contacts the Scottish fishermen have?
    The media is interested in a story, if there is a story there to be had then why can't the Mirror or Guardian or Independent or BBC or Sky or New European or Scott find it?

    Why is it SNP funded Scots dominating? I don't think the absence of the media in England meets Occam's Razor.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    If "fishing" is so badly affected right now why is it Scottish fishermen funded by the SNP that are the only vocal ones being quoted all the time?

    Where is the outrage from English fishermen?
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1383213/Brexit-news-EU-trade-deal-fishing-latest-Kirkella-freezer-super-trawler

    A BRITISH super trawler responsible for around 10 percent of fish sold in UK chip shops has been left abandoned as a post-Brexit agreement is yet to be finalised for catches in Arctic waters.

    The Kirkella freezer trawler is currently docked in Hull and has been unable to set sail since the Brexit-era began on January 1.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    I can never tell if hes in on the joke of his manner or not.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    Good.

    That's the rate we need to be going at. When people were being sceptical about 2m a week I thought it would have to be just a staging post to getting towards even higher figures.

    The early data out of Israel looks promising that this is working there in reducing the load and so we should soon start seeing a real impact in this country too.
    If it true they get all care home residents done in the next few days, that will also be a huge win.
    Absolutely. Spot on.

    Vallance had a staggering stat to share on Peston last night - you only need to vaccinate 20 care home residents to save one life.

    You need to vaccinate 50,000 under-50s to save one life.

    Quite the stat.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    This seems a lot of work to go to to prove that Toby is an idiot. I mean, certain things are just self evident, aren't they?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    edited January 2021

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).

    What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.

    Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
    Given that they are presenting evidence with figures to go along their statements why isn't it gospel.

    But I will edit this post to provide some more evidence



    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1383213/Brexit-news-EU-trade-deal-fishing-latest-Kirkella-freezer-super-trawler

    A BRITISH super trawler responsible for around 10 percent of fish sold in UK chip shops has been left abandoned as a post-Brexit agreement is yet to be finalised for catches in Arctic waters.

    The Kirkella freezer trawler is currently docked in Hull and has been unable to set sail since the Brexit-era began on January 1.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".

    Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
    He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
    Just like Gordon Brown.

    Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
    Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
    Far more Lenin than Brown because it all went on tanks and missiles rather schools and hospitals.
    Not likely to be tanks or missiles in Lenin's time in power...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,887
    edited January 2021
    The goal for our rollout apparatus is to become supply limited. The goal for our basic supply is to become rollout limited.
    One or the other will be the bottleneck at any point but we should push both as hard as possible.
  • The government dodged a bullet with Tobster....imagine if he was still had that advisory role to do with education that he had to be removed from before he started.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    The killer issue here is that no-one understood how bad the introduction of paperwork was going to be.

    Say what?

    Small children in Dumbarton knew exactly how the fuck bad the introduction of paperwork was going to be.
    Our Government didn't otherwise we wouldn't be in this mess.
    We all knew. Have you forgotten about the famous impact reports that spelt out how the impact of non tariff barriers was greater than the impact of tariffs?

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/971719855182434306
    If Faisal, Scott, or anyone else thinks this is getting any traction with the public while this covid crisis is utterly dominating everyone at present then they are deluded
    Quite, but this will be a slow burn that will continue for the forseeable future. People will gradually hear more about it as businesses incur more costs and, in some cases, close down completely as they can no longer sell profitably to the EU. And of course many significant areas of economic activity, like financial services, are now at the EU's mercy since the terms of future trading are largely unknown and subject to side agreements over which the UK has no leverage.
    Or, there will be a period of quite severe hassle and cost, followed by a couple of years of wearisome readjustment, then we will adapt and realise there are actually some serious benefits and new opportunities - which there will be. And Brexit will recede forever.

    The best analogy is a painful divorce from an unhappy but long lasting marriage. You have to split the house. All those shared possessions. Who gets them? Ugh. You move somewhere smaller. You miss the big garden. You don’t miss the endless bickering...

    Then you realise you are now free. Self reliant. You meet someone else. You have fun again.



    Or you belatedly realise she was the love of your life. All the hot chicks you thought would flock your way think you're just a sad weird old man. You still have to meet your ex wife all the time to discuss boring custody and alimony issues - the same arguing as before, but without the make up sex afterwards. She seems to be managing fine without you. You find yourself increasingly reliant on specialist hand crafted sex toys to find any joy in life. As you tuck into another tasteless TV dinner for one, binge watching Cash in the Attic and fingering the flint dildo, you find yourself asking, where did it all go wrong?
    Lol. Nicely done.

    Except that, of course, the EU was never ‘the love of my life’ for anyone but ScottP. The idea is preposterous. We only married for money, not for love, and that was the problem. Those kind of marriages are always somewhat toxic and generally doomed in the long term. So the rest of the analogy falls away.
    I would say it was more like one of those marriages where you were never a perfect fit but over time you could have come to a deep and lasting love. But you had this stupid pisshead mate, let's call him Nigel, who kept telling you that she was a fucking bitch, pointing out all her small flaws, and telling you you'd be better off without her. Since the divorce Nigel doesn't seem to want to meet up anymore. Someone even told you he'd started dating your ex. Why did I ever listen to Nigel, you think, as another evening of debasing, joyless solo sex with your bespoke flint accessories beckons.
    That one wasn’t as good as it is so clearly untrue. A ‘deep and lasting love’, for the EU???

    As spouses go the EU was a manipulative liar, but he earned decent money, even if he spent too much of it on booze. His conversation was boring, the sex was awful, yet his cash provided a big shiny house. He kept promising to mend his ways, the drinking and the lies, yet never did.

    We tolerated all of this - a sterile marriage to a feckless boor - because divorce seemed so daunting. And that new bathroom was so big.

    But then he started making demands on us, ordering us to stay home and cook, or to do all the housework in the nude while he languidly masturbated on the sofa we both paid for. Then he said, during yet another awful boozy dinner, that he wanted a threesome with the neighbour’s uncle.

    That’s when we left.
    What shiny house did the EU ever provide? We never became a beneficiary even with Maggie's rebate.
    Freedom of Movement was the garden (but it meant we got hedgehogs in the kitchen), and the Single Market was the massive house.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    If "fishing" is so badly affected right now why is it Scottish fishermen funded by the SNP that are the only vocal ones being quoted all the time?

    Where is the outrage from English fishermen?
    They don't have the media contacts the Scottish fishermen have?
    The media is interested in a story, if there is a story there to be had then why can't the Mirror or Guardian or Independent or BBC or Sky or New European or Scott find it?

    Why is it SNP funded Scots dominating? I don't think the absence of the media in England meets Occam's Razor.
    Ask them - I have my theory why (no money left so they won't report stories unless given to them on a plate) but that's my viewpoint it's not the papers.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    Good.

    That's the rate we need to be going at. When people were being sceptical about 2m a week I thought it would have to be just a staging post to getting towards even higher figures.

    The early data out of Israel looks promising that this is working there in reducing the load and so we should soon start seeing a real impact in this country too.
    I've been keeping half an eye on Israel. Any links to the promising early data please?
    Thread here.

    https://twitter.com/eladgil/status/1349159772868603904
    That's excellent news! Vindicates our single jab policy too. Hopefully a single AZ jab is also enough to reduce hospitalisation to minimal levels too.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited January 2021
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well speaking personally, the EU was - is - exactly my type. So score at least one for that view. It might be niche but it certainly exists.

    Submissives who like degradation are not THAT uncommon. Check FetLife.com. You might find someone else to call you names
    The EU is not that sort of gal. No way!

    But I don't mind as it happens. Is that a good site?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    On topic. Does anyone here use Dropbox? If they do, can they tell me if it’s possible to write documents straight into Dropbox, from an iPad, iPhone or even laptop.

    I love Dropbox but this lack of functionality seems mad. So maybe I’m missing a trick
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,465
    edited January 2021

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    If "fishing" is so badly affected right now why is it Scottish fishermen funded by the SNP that are the only vocal ones being quoted all the time?

    Where is the outrage from English fishermen?
    https://thefishingdaily.com/featured-news/cornish-fishermen-betrayed-by-boris-brexit-trade-deal/

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/08/brexit-red-tape-leaves-fish-rotting-cornish-boats/
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    Next months battle over school meals has been announced already

    Free school meals will not be extended to England's poorest pupils this half term, see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55663564
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    DavidL said:

    This seems a lot of work to go to to prove that Toby is an idiot. I mean, certain things are just self evident, aren't they?
    I salute his indefatigability though.
    Someone in the Tory Party needs to do this.
    Again and again.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450
    edited January 2021
    One bump in the road i can foresee is when we get around to the bulk 2nd doses in 3 months, we need to have enough supply of pfizer for all those who had it first time around. That really is in the hands of Pfizer being able to deliver.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    edited January 2021

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    If "fishing" is so badly affected right now why is it Scottish fishermen funded by the SNP that are the only vocal ones being quoted all the time?

    Where is the outrage from English fishermen?
    They don't have the media contacts the Scottish fishermen have?
    The media is interested in a story, if there is a story there to be had then why can't the Mirror or Guardian or Independent or BBC or Sky or New European or Scott find it?

    Why is it SNP funded Scots dominating? I don't think the absence of the media in England meets Occam's Razor.
    Because Scottish Government appointees to public bodies understand that they have to be political, and further the SNP's cause. See also, their Chief Scientific Officer mouthing off at the UK Government, their Government Twitter account shilling for indy in the wake of Brexit.

    There *is* of course a trend the other way, with outfits that receive UK funding bound to be more favourable and maintain a jolly hockey sticks line on what the UK Government is doing. What is problematical about the Scotland situation is that the SNP wishes to demonstrate that the UK isn't working. This means organisations indirectly funded by the UK taxpayer as a whole, could be working deliberately against UK and Scottish interests.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    edited January 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Phil said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "This isn’t a moment for gloating and revenge
    Trump should be punished for inciting the Capitol violence but Democrats would be wise to prioritise national healing
    David Aaronovitch" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/this-isn-t-a-moment-for-gloating-and-revenge-rptt07wpg

    And that has been my argument this morning
    If there are no consequences, what’s to stop politicians trying again in the future? After all, they learned that nothing would happen to them if they failed the first time, so it makes it even more likely that they’ll try again.

    No. Inciting armed insurrection against the democratic transfer of power is a step to far for the "lets all forget about it and move forward" option. There have to be consequences, or else we’ll be going through all this again, but worse in the future.

    (Frankly, I suspect we’ll be going through this again anyway, but it’ll be /worse/ if we don’t start showing some backbone, so best to get on with it.)
    Saw a tweet yesterday that mentioned that Hitler was originally given 5 years for the Munich putsch but was released after one in the interests of healing and reconciliation. Much healing and many reconciliations followed.
    I think the healing can only start when he makes a statement to his base that the election was not fraudulent. Something simple and clear, not hedged with arch undertone, nor looking like a hostage video where he's stiff and reading it out. If this is not forthcoming, forget about it, the "healing" talk will remain as pseudy bollox from people who feel they have to say something but are unable to say anything interesting or useful.
    That's right but it'll never happen; Trump really won is the last article of faith left to Trump and his acolytes.

    Some Trumpers interviewed on R4 just now: no one is giving credit to Trump for the good things he did, the rioters are responsible for their own actions, Biden isn't thinking about me. The stench of self pity and exculpation was overpowering. The idea that people who campaigned for the last 4 years on scorn and contempt and rage should now be given the benefit of the doubt would test even a fuckin saint, and they're in short supply.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114
    Leon said:

    On topic. Does anyone here use Dropbox? If they do, can they tell me if it’s possible to write documents straight into Dropbox, from an iPad, iPhone or even laptop.

    I love Dropbox but this lack of functionality seems mad. So maybe I’m missing a trick

    I use it.

    It isn't a a word processing programme - its a file storage system.

    You write something in word (or pages) and then save it in your dropbox folder and voila, its in the cloud too - and once the other devices have synced, it is is that dropbox folder on the other device.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    Good.

    That's the rate we need to be going at. When people were being sceptical about 2m a week I thought it would have to be just a staging post to getting towards even higher figures.

    The early data out of Israel looks promising that this is working there in reducing the load and so we should soon start seeing a real impact in this country too.
    I've been keeping half an eye on Israel. Any links to the promising early data please?
    Thread here.

    https://twitter.com/eladgil/status/1349159772868603904
    Perfect. Cheers.
    Calling all journalists, get a Hebrew translator and do a decent English write up of this.

    It could be THE story.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    Mortimer said:

    Leon said:

    On topic. Does anyone here use Dropbox? If they do, can they tell me if it’s possible to write documents straight into Dropbox, from an iPad, iPhone or even laptop.

    I love Dropbox but this lack of functionality seems mad. So maybe I’m missing a trick

    I use it.

    It isn't a a word processing programme - its a file storage system.

    You write something in word (or pages) and then save it in your dropbox folder and voila, its in the cloud too - and once the other devices have synced, it is is that dropbox folder on the other device.
    Thanks. But I tried that. I wrote a note in Pages but then it wouldn’t let me save it in Dropbox (I’m on an iPad). I’ll try again....
  • eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    If "fishing" is so badly affected right now why is it Scottish fishermen funded by the SNP that are the only vocal ones being quoted all the time?

    Where is the outrage from English fishermen?
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/14/mps-fishing-areas-criticise-government-brexit-red-tape

    "More than half a dozen English Conservative MPs representing coastal areas also expressed worries, with Steve Double, the MP for St Austell and Newquay in Cornwall, saying his local fleets “benefit little from this deal”.

    Sheryll Murray, the South East Cornwall MP, quoted a local fishing business owner who said border red tape was “posing a real threat to his business”.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-55621259

    To say nothing of the Brixham "no fish will rot" guy now bemoaning rotting fish
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    edited January 2021
    TOPPING said:

    The home secretary has said the government will not announce new Covid restrictions on Thursday or Friday, but did not rule out further measures being announced next week.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55663308

    Lockdown++++++ next week it is then.

    I don't think so. Usually it's - 2pm: "no more restrictions" 5pm: more restrictions.

    They have learned to move more quickly but I think they are seeing if the vaccine will affect numbers and whether cases/hospitalisations stabilise.

    While ever supermarkets remain open more restrictions are pointless. They are clearly the biggest vectors.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,281
    edited January 2021
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Going back to Trump - one reason why he is attacking Rudy https://twitter.com/davepell/status/1349603201087991809

    How much of the blame for the speech last Wednesday can he spread elsewhere.

    You would have thought Republicans might learn that running with Trump doesnt stop you being attacked by him, it merely delays it. To stop getting attacked by him they have to take away his power.
    A lot of people are scared that trying to remove the Queen Bee from the hive may result in them being stung (possibly stung to death) by the worker bees the Queen controlled.
    Bloody awful metaphor, Eek, but I know what you mean. McConnell, Pence and many other leading Republicans seemed to have made the decision long ago that the best approach was to humour him.

    Hasn't worked out terribly well. Perhaps they should try the 'stand-up-to-the-bastard' strategy for a change.
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    If "fishing" is so badly affected right now why is it Scottish fishermen funded by the SNP that are the only vocal ones being quoted all the time?

    Where is the outrage from English fishermen?
    They don't have the media contacts the Scottish fishermen have?
    The media is interested in a story, if there is a story there to be had then why can't the Mirror or Guardian or Independent or BBC or Sky or New European or Scott find it?

    Why is it SNP funded Scots dominating? I don't think the absence of the media in England meets Occam's Razor.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/12/24/fisherman-feel-sold-river-brexit-deal/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    kle4 said:

    I can never tell if hes in on the joke of his manner or not.
    Of course he’s in on it.
  • eek said:

    Next months battle over school meals has been announced already

    Free school meals will not be extended to England's poorest pupils this half term, see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55663564

    "Let them eat grass"
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    eek said:

    Next months battle U-turn over school meals has been announced already

    Free school meals will not be extended to England's poorest pupils this half term, see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55663564

    You're welcome. - ed.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,585
    eek said:

    Next months battle over school meals has been announced already

    Free school meals will not be extended to England's poorest pupils this half term, see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55663564

    Correction: Next month's U-turn over school meals has been signposted already.
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    If "fishing" is so badly affected right now why is it Scottish fishermen funded by the SNP that are the only vocal ones being quoted all the time?

    Where is the outrage from English fishermen?
    They don't have the media contacts the Scottish fishermen have?
    The media is interested in a story, if there is a story there to be had then why can't the Mirror or Guardian or Independent or BBC or Sky or New European or Scott find it?

    Why is it SNP funded Scots dominating? I don't think the absence of the media in England meets Occam's Razor.
    Because Scottish Government appointees to public bodies understand that they have to be political, and further the SNP's cause. See also, their Chief Scientific Officer mouthing off at the UK Government, their Government Twitter account shilling for indy in the wake of Brexit.

    There *is* of course a trend the other way, with outfits that receive UK funding bound to be more favourable and maintain a jolly hockey sticks line on what the UK Government is doing. What is problematical about the Scotland situation is that the SNP wishes to demonstrate that the UK isn't working. This means organisations indirectly funded by the UK taxpayer as a whole, could be working deliberately against UK and Scottish interests.
    Can you play the opposite side of the argument and give me fishermen delighted with the new arrangements? If its all a politically-motivated SNP lie then where are the industry bods loving it?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,585
    Mortimer said:

    Leon said:

    On topic. Does anyone here use Dropbox? If they do, can they tell me if it’s possible to write documents straight into Dropbox, from an iPad, iPhone or even laptop.

    I love Dropbox but this lack of functionality seems mad. So maybe I’m missing a trick

    I use it.

    It isn't a a word processing programme - its a file storage system.

    You write something in word (or pages) and then save it in your dropbox folder and voila, its in the cloud too - and once the other devices have synced, it is is that dropbox folder on the other device.
    Google Drive otoh does have those associated tools.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Leon said:

    On topic. Does anyone here use Dropbox? If they do, can they tell me if it’s possible to write documents straight into Dropbox, from an iPad, iPhone or even laptop.

    I love Dropbox but this lack of functionality seems mad. So maybe I’m missing a trick

    Why would you need to? What are you trying to achieve?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,871
    Pulpstar said:

    The goal for our rollout apparatus is to become supply limited. The goal for our basic supply is to become rollout limited.
    One or the other will be the bottleneck at any point but we should push both as hard as possible.

    We should be continuously supply limited if things are working, if would be sheer incompetence to end up limited by the ability to jab someone in the arm.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,363
    edited January 2021

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    Good.

    That's the rate we need to be going at. When people were being sceptical about 2m a week I thought it would have to be just a staging post to getting towards even higher figures.

    The early data out of Israel looks promising that this is working there in reducing the load and so we should soon start seeing a real impact in this country too.
    I've been keeping half an eye on Israel. Any links to the promising early data please?

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccination-rate-will-more-than-double-to-500-000-a-day-28p9hqz2g

    3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.

    Good.

    That's the rate we need to be going at. When people were being sceptical about 2m a week I thought it would have to be just a staging post to getting towards even higher figures.

    The early data out of Israel looks promising that this is working there in reducing the load and so we should soon start seeing a real impact in this country too.
    I've been keeping half an eye on Israel. Any links to the promising early data please?
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-data-shows-50-reduction-in-infections-14-days-after-first-vaccine-shot/
    Hmm, that doesn't look that brilliant to me. I seem to remember seeing a graph posted here indicating that the first Pfizer shot reduced the chances of getting covid by 90% after 10 days or so. Here, they seem to be saying that it's more like 50% (or possibly 33%, or 60%) after 14 days. That doesn't sound particularly good to me.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,214
    Pulpstar said:

    The goal for our rollout apparatus is to become supply limited. The goal for our basic supply is to become rollout limited.
    One or the other will be the bottleneck at any point but we should push both as hard as possible.

    Yes.
    I think at some point we will almost inevitably become supply constrained, because after 12 weeks we have to vaccinate all of those who got the first jab as well as doing new people. The supply is not going to grow as fast as our capacity to inject I think.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114
    Leon said:

    Mortimer said:

    Leon said:

    On topic. Does anyone here use Dropbox? If they do, can they tell me if it’s possible to write documents straight into Dropbox, from an iPad, iPhone or even laptop.

    I love Dropbox but this lack of functionality seems mad. So maybe I’m missing a trick

    I use it.

    It isn't a a word processing programme - its a file storage system.

    You write something in word (or pages) and then save it in your dropbox folder and voila, its in the cloud too - and once the other devices have synced, it is is that dropbox folder on the other device.
    Thanks. But I tried that. I wrote a note in Pages but then it wouldn’t let me save it in Dropbox (I’m on an iPad). I’ll try again....
    This might help:

    https://www.dropboxforum.com/t5/Dropbox-files-folders/Cannot-upload-pages-document-from-ipad-to-dropbox/td-p/331806
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114

    TOPPING said:

    The home secretary has said the government will not announce new Covid restrictions on Thursday or Friday, but did not rule out further measures being announced next week.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55663308

    Lockdown++++++ next week it is then.

    I don't think so. Usually it's - 2pm: "no more restrictions" 5pm: more restrictions.

    They have learned to move more quickly but I think they are seeing if the vaccine will affect numbers and whether cases/hospitalisations stabilise.

    While ever supermarkets remain open more restrictions are pointless. They are clearly the biggest vectors.
    People keep saying this, but.....

    I haven't heard of any grumbling from supermarket workers (c/f teachers) and people don't spend much time in any one place next to another individual.

    I just don't see why so many people are scared of supermarkets. I was using them throughout in the first wave (sans mask) and not a problem. Ditto everyone else I know...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677

    Leon said:

    On topic. Does anyone here use Dropbox? If they do, can they tell me if it’s possible to write documents straight into Dropbox, from an iPad, iPhone or even laptop.

    I love Dropbox but this lack of functionality seems mad. So maybe I’m missing a trick

    Why would you need to? What are you trying to achieve?
    I’ve had an idea for a new limestone Butt-plug, inspired by Robert Smithson’s head, and I want to note it down. Dropbox is where I keep all my ideas but I’m on my iPad in bed.

    Anyway I’ve solved it. You CAN do it through Pages, but it turns out Dropbox does have this functionality anyway. You just have to download a 2nd app - Dropbox Paper. Syncs seamlessly
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    On topic. Does anyone here use Dropbox? If they do, can they tell me if it’s possible to write documents straight into Dropbox, from an iPad, iPhone or even laptop.

    I love Dropbox but this lack of functionality seems mad. So maybe I’m missing a trick

    Why would you need to? What are you trying to achieve?
    I’ve had an idea for a new limestone Butt-plug, inspired by Robert Smithson’s head, and I want to note it down. Dropbox is where I keep all my ideas but I’m on my iPad in bed.
    Will there be with and without specs options?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,585
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I can never tell if hes in on the joke of his manner or not.
    Of course he’s in on it.
    Of course he is. In his own terms he is being very witty.

    The fact that he couldn't give a flying f*ck for the fishermen whose livelihood have been ruined is also plainly obvious.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,363
    edited January 2021
    Mortimer said:

    TOPPING said:

    The home secretary has said the government will not announce new Covid restrictions on Thursday or Friday, but did not rule out further measures being announced next week.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55663308

    Lockdown++++++ next week it is then.

    I don't think so. Usually it's - 2pm: "no more restrictions" 5pm: more restrictions.

    They have learned to move more quickly but I think they are seeing if the vaccine will affect numbers and whether cases/hospitalisations stabilise.

    While ever supermarkets remain open more restrictions are pointless. They are clearly the biggest vectors.
    People keep saying this, but.....

    I haven't heard of any grumbling from supermarket workers (c/f teachers) and people don't spend much time in any one place next to another individual.

    I just don't see why so many people are scared of supermarkets. I was using them throughout in the first wave (sans mask) and not a problem. Ditto everyone else I know...
    Quite a few people have gone down with covid at the missus's workplace. During the first wave, they were the sociable ones - members of choirs, party animals, etc. - but those that caught it during the second wave all caught it off their kids.
This discussion has been closed.