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McConnell’s impeachment move means Trump looks set to serve a full term and there’ll be no President

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  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    edited January 2021
    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).

    What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.

    Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
    Given that they are presenting evidence with figures to go along their statements why isn't it gospel?
    RT frequently provide figures to back up their stories, but you don't treat anything printed there as gospel, you treat it as propaganda from the mouthpiece of Putin. We take the figures and evidence that says what you want it to say.

    By the way, I'm not denying that transitioning from the EU to no EU has caused kinks for exporters, and that these kinks are not particularly difficult for exporters of freshly caught fish. There are valid questions to be asked to both the UK and Scottish Governments about why preparations were not better, given that an exit from the single market and customs union was baked in regardless of the deal or no deal outcomes. However, we are not asking those tough questions when it all becomes an agenda-driven rant about Brexit.

    Why couldn't they prepare for something that doesn't work? Perhaps they should have paid more attention to the official UK government Border Operating Plan manual. Which says virtually nothing about the processes on the EU side of the border which sinks our exports.

    That these EU process for 3rd countries have been in place for a long time, and that the UK government explicitly insisted that we become a 3rd country makes it clear the blame is on the Scottish government and their allegedly paid lackeys.
    It just 'doesn't work' eh - odd then how the EU manages to be a net importer of fish (from outside the EU for avoidance of doubt), importing around 26 billion euros worth a year: https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/5-external-trade_en



    Strange how the impenetrable European single market that we clearly never should have left doesn't seem to trouble fishermen in Vietnam, India or America. They just seem to manage.
    Are you saying that the EU imports fresh fish from Vietnam?
    Not sure what that particular nugget has to do with anything. Fresh fish are imported from outside the single market and customs union - this is covered in the introduction:

    The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled. Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are the leading importing Member States.
    May I suggest you go back to Rochdale's question and think about your answer.

    Live exports have far tighter restrictions (but far higher market prices) than frozen products.

    The exports you are comparing us to are both very different and far more of a bulk none premium product.
    May I suggest his question was a pathetic attempt to fix on something in my response that he found somewhat whimsical, to cover up the fact that his entire argument, that you can't export fish into the EU from outside it, is now nothing more than a smouldering crater.

    It is clear that you *can* export fish into the EU.
    It is clear that several countries make a lot of money from doing so.
    It is clear that this includes fresh fish, as well as crustaceans and molluscs - that information is also provided in the information I posted.

    Since it is clearly not impossible, or even unprofitable, to sell fish to the EU, from countries further afield than the UK, it then becomes quite clear that these are administrative problems that can be worked on, some being solved in days, some in weeks, a few in months. Unfortunately that doesn't help the hand-flapping argument of the Scottish Government and associated hangers on that it's all an insoluble feature of not being in the EU.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited January 2021
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    Portugal is really bad too. Similar soaring rate to Ireland, so maybe Kentish Covid is doing its thing there, too. Total lockdown for 2 months from tomorrow.

    Dental question for Pb-ers. My teeth are in a right old state. Haven’t been cleaned for a year. Just forgot, when I had a chance in the summer.

    If I leave it much longer I’ll get gum problems. And dentists are open so I could get an appointment. Worth the risk?
    Business as usual at mine, and the mask up pretty well anyway.
    Have you been? During lockdown?
    Yes, twice this year.

    ETA and they are doing check ups, hygienists etc as usual.

    My position is I don't want to be edentate any more than I want covid, so get it done before lockdown mark X prohibits it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).

    What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.

    Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
    Given that they are presenting evidence with figures to go along their statements why isn't it gospel?
    RT frequently provide figures to back up their stories, but you don't treat anything printed there as gospel, you treat it as propaganda from the mouthpiece of Putin. We take the figures and evidence that says what you want it to say.

    By the way, I'm not denying that transitioning from the EU to no EU has caused kinks for exporters, and that these kinks are not particularly difficult for exporters of freshly caught fish. There are valid questions to be asked to both the UK and Scottish Governments about why preparations were not better, given that an exit from the single market and customs union was baked in regardless of the deal or no deal outcomes. However, we are not asking those tough questions when it all becomes an agenda-driven rant about Brexit.

    Why couldn't they prepare for something that doesn't work? Perhaps they should have paid more attention to the official UK government Border Operating Plan manual. Which says virtually nothing about the processes on the EU side of the border which sinks our exports.

    That these EU process for 3rd countries have been in place for a long time, and that the UK government explicitly insisted that we become a 3rd country makes it clear the blame is on the Scottish government and their allegedly paid lackeys.
    It just 'doesn't work' eh - odd then how the EU manages to be a net importer of fish (from outside the EU for avoidance of doubt), importing around 26 billion euros worth a year: https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/5-external-trade_en



    Strange how the impenetrable European single market that we clearly never should have left doesn't seem to trouble fishermen in Vietnam, India or America. They just seem to manage.
    Are you saying that the EU imports fresh fish from Vietnam?
    Not sure what that particular nugget has to do with anything. Fresh fish are imported from outside the single market and customs union - this is covered in the introduction:

    The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled. Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are the leading importing Member States.
    The thing about frozen fish is that its frozen. If the refrigerated trailer it's packed in loses an extra few days queuing for customs there's no harm to the product. So its not an issue for frozen imports from Vietnam.

    Fresh fish? That has to be shipped quickly. Which makes its market local. Which makes your map of the globe only to demonstrate your ignorance of the topic on which you are posting.

    It is Fresh Fish that is rotting. Not frozen. "It doesn't work eh" because you can't ship fresh fish from fucking Vietnam or America or wherever. Eh. So the process doesn't work for these other countries, eh, because it doesn't.

    You are like Philip. Clueless. But desperate to defend the government. So post guff.
    READ THE QUOTE AGAIN.

    READ THE WORD IN BOLD.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    Portugal is really bad too. Similar soaring rate to Ireland, so maybe Kentish Covid is doing its thing there, too. Total lockdown for 2 months from tomorrow.

    Dental question for Pb-ers. My teeth are in a right old state. Haven’t been cleaned for a year. Just forgot, when I had a chance in the summer.

    If I leave it much longer I’ll get gum problems. And dentists are open so I could get an appointment. Worth the risk?
    Business as usual at mine, and the mask up pretty well anyway.
    Have you been? During lockdown?
    Yes, twice this year.
    Ta
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    Portugal is really bad too. Similar soaring rate to Ireland, so maybe Kentish Covid is doing its thing there, too. Total lockdown for 2 months from tomorrow.

    Dental question for Pb-ers. My teeth are in a right old state. Haven’t been cleaned for a year. Just forgot, when I had a chance in the summer.

    If I leave it much longer I’ll get gum problems. And dentists are open so I could get an appointment. Worth the risk?
    Just get a toothbrush and clean them yourself.
    My consumption of strong coffee and red wine means they need a pro
    Black tea is I am sure doing bad things to mine. I can't remember the last time I went to the dentist to be honest, probably at least 3 years ago. British people are meant to have horrible teeth.
  • eek said:

    The most amazing thing is that anyone is in the least bit surprised that our fishing and seafood industry is being absolutely pole-axed by Brexit. That was just about the most obvious of all the obvious consequences of Brexit, once it became clear that for reasons of pure ideology we weren't going to do what was necessary to retain EU sanitary and phytosanitary approval. It's pretty bad for our other food exports, but for a product which absolutely has to be delivered spanking fresh it is disastrous.

    No doubt things will improve a little once the government gets round to writing and testing some computer systems and telling people what the rules are (rules which we've known about for decades, since we helped write them and have long been enforcing for third-country imports ourselves), but there will still be a massive medium-term hit.

    This was of course very widely warned about. But the half-wit government we've landed ourselves with simply ignored the issue.

    For farmers it's not so bad - while we used to sell fresh lamb they can keep things as they were but just sell mutton instead.
    They'll still be able to sell fresh lamb, albeit with a lot of extra hassle, vets' bills and red tape. Thank goodness we at least got a thin deal, so lamb exports won't be subject to a tariff of around 45%; that would have been a real killer in the 'Britain will prosper mightily' scenario.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    England: 248,177 total jabs yesterday, 239,815 first, 8,362 second. Total up 32% day on day, first 38%, second down 37%

    248k, not enough again.

    Needs to keep trending sharply upwards.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited January 2021
    Must read for anyone considering/invested in football index;

    https://caanberry.com/is-football-index-a-ponzi-scheme/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    Portugal is really bad too. Similar soaring rate to Ireland, so maybe Kentish Covid is doing its thing there, too. Total lockdown for 2 months from tomorrow.

    Dental question for Pb-ers. My teeth are in a right old state. Haven’t been cleaned for a year. Just forgot, when I had a chance in the summer.

    If I leave it much longer I’ll get gum problems. And dentists are open so I could get an appointment. Worth the risk?
    Of course you should go if you can - I went yesterday. Extraction.

    AFAIK it is important stuff only - at least it is with our dental practice. No chance of a regular check up or a visit to hygienist (which I presume you are referring to) round here.

    I`m worried me about my children who haven`t had check ups for over a year.
    I got an appointment Monday. Cleaning. Which is pretty crucial if you haven’t had it done for a year
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    England: 248,177 total jabs yesterday, 239,815 first, 8,362 second. Total up 32% day on day, first 38%, second down 37%

    248k, not enough again.

    Needs to keep trending sharply upwards.
    That's England only
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    WTAF is Club Med doing with vaccinations??

    Can anyone explain the absolutely bloody dismal returns in France and Spain?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    edited January 2021

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).

    What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.

    Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
    Given that they are presenting evidence with figures to go along their statements why isn't it gospel?
    RT frequently provide figures to back up their stories, but you don't treat anything printed there as gospel, you treat it as propaganda from the mouthpiece of Putin. We take the figures and evidence that says what you want it to say.

    By the way, I'm not denying that transitioning from the EU to no EU has caused kinks for exporters, and that these kinks are not particularly difficult for exporters of freshly caught fish. There are valid questions to be asked to both the UK and Scottish Governments about why preparations were not better, given that an exit from the single market and customs union was baked in regardless of the deal or no deal outcomes. However, we are not asking those tough questions when it all becomes an agenda-driven rant about Brexit.

    Why couldn't they prepare for something that doesn't work? Perhaps they should have paid more attention to the official UK government Border Operating Plan manual. Which says virtually nothing about the processes on the EU side of the border which sinks our exports.

    That these EU process for 3rd countries have been in place for a long time, and that the UK government explicitly insisted that we become a 3rd country makes it clear the blame is on the Scottish government and their allegedly paid lackeys.
    It just 'doesn't work' eh - odd then how the EU manages to be a net importer of fish (from outside the EU for avoidance of doubt), importing around 26 billion euros worth a year: https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/5-external-trade_en



    Strange how the impenetrable European single market that we clearly never should have left doesn't seem to trouble fishermen in Vietnam, India or America. They just seem to manage.
    Are you saying that the EU imports fresh fish from Vietnam?
    Not sure what that particular nugget has to do with anything. Fresh fish are imported from outside the single market and customs union - this is covered in the introduction:

    The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled. Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are the leading importing Member States.
    The thing about frozen fish is that its frozen. If the refrigerated trailer it's packed in loses an extra few days queuing for customs there's no harm to the product. So its not an issue for frozen imports from Vietnam.

    Fresh fish? That has to be shipped quickly. Which makes its market local. Which makes your map of the globe only to demonstrate your ignorance of the topic on which you are posting.

    It is Fresh Fish that is rotting. Not frozen. "It doesn't work eh" because you can't ship fresh fish from fucking Vietnam or America or wherever. Eh. So the process doesn't work for these other countries, eh, because it doesn't.

    You are like Philip. Clueless. But desperate to defend the government. So post guff.
    READ THE QUOTE AGAIN.

    READ THE WORD IN BOLD.
    Tell me which countries export fresh (the word in bold) fish to the EU...

    Hint it's not Vietnam or the USA...
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695

    TOPPING said:

    Andy_JS said:

    My wife is doing a 4 hour shift at a vaccination centre this afternoon. I have asked her to count how many she does in that time period

    That would be useful information to know.
    If spread betting, I'd go for just under 500
    At my mother's (her again!) local hospital vaccine centre they were doing 350 a day a fortnight ago and were expecting to ramp up the following week (1st week of Jan) to 500.

    This was with immediate registration on entrance, waiting 1 min, then 3 min assessment filling in the forms online with one doctor (nurse? not sure), 1 min waiting, 2 mins with the doctor (they had several rooms each with a doctor in) who assessed her in person and administered the jab, and waiting the 15 minutes marshalled by one orderly.

    While we were there (22 mins! :smile: ) there was minimal waiting and there were about 5-10 people at any one time in the 15 minute waiting area.

    Let someone on PB disaggregate that and work out likely vaccination rates.

    Edit: they seemed very not busy but it could easily have been very good planning for throughput.
    It looks like it varies according to vaccine then.

    Local football stadium.

    Today: straight in the door (just turn up on or near appointment time). Three desks. Who are you (computer form), here's your card, here's your AZN jab, next. Rate limited by speed of vaccination and form filling. 5 minutes in and out.

    Last week: Who are you, here's your card and sticker with your exit time, here's your Pfizer jab, sit over there until your exit time, next. Rate limited by number of chairs (30-35). 20 minutes in and out.


    I think there could be various variables.

    So my Dad had his vaccine on Tuesday. Was in, vaccinated and seated for his 15min wait in the space of 2 -3 min. Very impressive.

    Next day, same location, same vaccine a friend of his had a 2.5 hour wait.

    Sounds like, as you would expect, they are running on the Ryanair model - Very slick, going for high turnover efficiency. But when something goes wrong in the critical path it crashes.

    I have to say, in the current circumstances, this is the correct way to do it. You want the high turnover, so if it goes wrong the punter has to suck it up rather than building in contingencies (although I would have been frustrated if it happened to me).
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,165
    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    May/June? That's just unbelievable.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Stocky said:

    rpjs said:

    Stocky said:

    Anyone know what the rules are about going for a short ride in car (within 5 miles) (not getting out of car at any point). No risk obviously, but common sense seems out of fashion.

    Daughter upset because her driving lessons have stopped and wants to go out with me with L plates on in a nearby industrial estate for a practice. I don`t want to get nicked.

    https://www.gov.uk/driving-lessons-learning-to-drive

    "Learning to drive during coronavirus (COVID-19)

    "You cannot take driving lessons in England, Scotland or Wales.

    "You can only practise driving with members of your household or support bubble. It must be travel for work, education or other essential journeys."
    Excellent - thanks for that - we could argue education or going to supermarket!
    If she's learning to drive, is that not by definition "education" ? :smile:
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    Ooooh! Now that is better. Sorry, I assumed the 248k was UK.

    248k in ENGLAND is great.
  • F1: who's got COVID-19? It is he, Leclerc:
    https://twitter.com/adamcooperF1/status/1349725819598372865

    Self-isolating in Monaco, eh? How tough can it get?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    edited January 2021

    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).

    What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.

    Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
    Given that they are presenting evidence with figures to go along their statements why isn't it gospel?
    RT frequently provide figures to back up their stories, but you don't treat anything printed there as gospel, you treat it as propaganda from the mouthpiece of Putin. We take the figures and evidence that says what you want it to say.

    By the way, I'm not denying that transitioning from the EU to no EU has caused kinks for exporters, and that these kinks are not particularly difficult for exporters of freshly caught fish. There are valid questions to be asked to both the UK and Scottish Governments about why preparations were not better, given that an exit from the single market and customs union was baked in regardless of the deal or no deal outcomes. However, we are not asking those tough questions when it all becomes an agenda-driven rant about Brexit.

    Why couldn't they prepare for something that doesn't work? Perhaps they should have paid more attention to the official UK government Border Operating Plan manual. Which says virtually nothing about the processes on the EU side of the border which sinks our exports.

    That these EU process for 3rd countries have been in place for a long time, and that the UK government explicitly insisted that we become a 3rd country makes it clear the blame is on the Scottish government and their allegedly paid lackeys.
    It just 'doesn't work' eh - odd then how the EU manages to be a net importer of fish (from outside the EU for avoidance of doubt), importing around 26 billion euros worth a year: https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/5-external-trade_en



    Strange how the impenetrable European single market that we clearly never should have left doesn't seem to trouble fishermen in Vietnam, India or America. They just seem to manage.
    Are you saying that the EU imports fresh fish from Vietnam?
    Not sure what that particular nugget has to do with anything. Fresh fish are imported from outside the single market and customs union - this is covered in the introduction:

    The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled. Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are the leading importing Member States.
    May I suggest you go back to Rochdale's question and think about your answer.

    Live exports have far tighter restrictions (but far higher market prices) than frozen products.

    The exports you are comparing us to are both very different and far more of a bulk none premium product.
    May I suggest his question was a pathetic attempt to fix on something in my response that he found somewhat whimsical, to cover up the fact that his entire argument, that you can't export fish into the EU from outside it, is now nothing more than a smouldering crater.

    It is clear that you *can* export fish into the EU.
    It is clear that several countries make a lot of money from doing so.
    It is clear that this includes fresh fish, as well as crustaceans and molluscs - that information is also provided in the information I posted.

    Since it is clearly not impossible, or even unprofitable, to sell fish to the EU, from countries further afield than the UK, it then becomes quite clear that these are administrative problems that can be worked on, some being solved in days, some in weeks, a few in months. Unfortunately that doesn't help the hand-flapping argument of the Scottish Government and associated hangers on that it's all an insoluble feature of not being in the EU.
    But frozen fish is a commodity product worth less than 10% of it's fresh equivalent and without any of strict limits that fresh fish has where it's value drops by the hour.

    The fact you can't see that article is combining very different things and treating them as a single product pretending that fresh and frozen fish are identical is a problem you have - it's not one me or Rochdale have.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    For once (finally!) they may be under promising, planning on over delivering:

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1349710776869773313?s=20
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    Andy_JS said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    May/June? That's just unbelievable.
    It is absolutely pathetic. I mean, if that is anywhere near true it's an international disgrace on a grand scale.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    England: 248,177 total jabs yesterday, 239,815 first, 8,362 second. Total up 32% day on day, first 38%, second down 37%

    248k, not enough again.

    Needs to keep trending sharply upwards.
    That's England only

    Yes, apologies, just seen my error.

    Pretty darned good!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823
    Leon said:

    England: 248,177 total jabs yesterday, 239,815 first, 8,362 second. Total up 32% day on day, first 38%, second down 37%

    Quarter of a million a day. Excellent. Close to target already. Now they need to exceed it
    The Independent's front page from yesterday looking a touch out of date already.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).

    What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.

    Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
    Given that they are presenting evidence with figures to go along their statements why isn't it gospel?
    RT frequently provide figures to back up their stories, but you don't treat anything printed there as gospel, you treat it as propaganda from the mouthpiece of Putin. We take the figures and evidence that says what you want it to say.

    By the way, I'm not denying that transitioning from the EU to no EU has caused kinks for exporters, and that these kinks are not particularly difficult for exporters of freshly caught fish. There are valid questions to be asked to both the UK and Scottish Governments about why preparations were not better, given that an exit from the single market and customs union was baked in regardless of the deal or no deal outcomes. However, we are not asking those tough questions when it all becomes an agenda-driven rant about Brexit.

    Why couldn't they prepare for something that doesn't work? Perhaps they should have paid more attention to the official UK government Border Operating Plan manual. Which says virtually nothing about the processes on the EU side of the border which sinks our exports.

    That these EU process for 3rd countries have been in place for a long time, and that the UK government explicitly insisted that we become a 3rd country makes it clear the blame is on the Scottish government and their allegedly paid lackeys.
    It just 'doesn't work' eh - odd then how the EU manages to be a net importer of fish (from outside the EU for avoidance of doubt), importing around 26 billion euros worth a year: https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/5-external-trade_en



    Strange how the impenetrable European single market that we clearly never should have left doesn't seem to trouble fishermen in Vietnam, India or America. They just seem to manage.
    Are you saying that the EU imports fresh fish from Vietnam?
    Not sure what that particular nugget has to do with anything. Fresh fish are imported from outside the single market and customs union - this is covered in the introduction:

    The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled. Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are the leading importing Member States.
    May I suggest you go back to Rochdale's question and think about your answer.

    Live exports have far tighter restrictions (but far higher market prices) than frozen products.

    The exports you are comparing us to are both very different and far more of a bulk none premium product.
    May I suggest his question was a pathetic attempt to fix on something in my response that he found somewhat whimsical, to cover up the fact that his entire argument, that you can't export fish into the EU from outside it, is now nothing more than a smouldering crater.

    It is clear that you *can* export fish into the EU.
    It is clear that several countries make a lot of money from doing so.
    It is clear that this includes fresh fish, as well as crustaceans and molluscs - that information is also provided in the information I posted.

    Since it is clearly not impossible, or even unprofitable, to sell fish to the EU, from countries further afield than the UK, it then becomes quite clear that these are administrative problems that can be worked on, some being solved in days, some in weeks, a few in months. Unfortunately that doesn't help the hand-flapping argument of the Scottish Government and associated hangers on that it's all an insoluble feature of not being in the EU.
    There is no logical through road from "The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled" to "It is clear that you *can* export fish into the EU. It is clear that several countries make a lot of money from doing so." What proportion is fresh, from which countries, and how much money is involved?
  • England: 248,177 total jabs yesterday, 239,815 first, 8,362 second. Total up 32% day on day, first 38%, second down 37%

    Re your italics, it's to be expected that 2nd doses will be dropping off between now and about 12 weeks into the year.


  • Black tea is I am sure doing bad things to mine. I can't remember the last time I went to the dentist to be honest, probably at least 3 years ago. British people are meant to have horrible teeth.

    You really should go, as soon as you can given the pandemic. It's not the teeth per se you should worry about, it's gum disease, which can lead to disagreeable consequences and is difficult to treat once it gets hold.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    Just had a non-specific text from my wife saying she had done "bloody loads"

    What about vaccinations? :D
  • A friend of mine (in his 30s undergoing chemotherapy) has been booked in to get his vaccination at the start of February. Will need to take a 2 week pause in his chemo beforehand.

    So they're starting to book in Priority Group 4 it seems.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    Portugal is really bad too. Similar soaring rate to Ireland, so maybe Kentish Covid is doing its thing there, too. Total lockdown for 2 months from tomorrow.

    Dental question for Pb-ers. My teeth are in a right old state. Haven’t been cleaned for a year. Just forgot, when I had a chance in the summer.

    If I leave it much longer I’ll get gum problems. And dentists are open so I could get an appointment. Worth the risk?
    Of course you should go if you can - I went yesterday. Extraction.

    AFAIK it is important stuff only - at least it is with our dental practice. No chance of a regular check up or a visit to hygienist (which I presume you are referring to) round here.

    I`m worried me about my children who haven`t had check ups for over a year.
    I got an appointment Monday. Cleaning. Which is pretty crucial if you haven’t had it done for a year
    Scale and polish won't really help if you've got stained teeth (coffee and red wine). You should get some Crest whitestrips.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    England: 248,177 total jabs yesterday, 239,815 first, 8,362 second. Total up 32% day on day, first 38%, second down 37%

    Quarter of a million a day. Excellent. Close to target already. Now they need to exceed it
    The Independent's front page from yesterday looking a touch out of date already.
    Was Tuesday's front page I think. Nowt wrong with it either.

    Keep the pressure on the government.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).

    What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.

    Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
    Given that they are presenting evidence with figures to go along their statements why isn't it gospel?
    RT frequently provide figures to back up their stories, but you don't treat anything printed there as gospel, you treat it as propaganda from the mouthpiece of Putin. We take the figures and evidence that says what you want it to say.

    By the way, I'm not denying that transitioning from the EU to no EU has caused kinks for exporters, and that these kinks are not particularly difficult for exporters of freshly caught fish. There are valid questions to be asked to both the UK and Scottish Governments about why preparations were not better, given that an exit from the single market and customs union was baked in regardless of the deal or no deal outcomes. However, we are not asking those tough questions when it all becomes an agenda-driven rant about Brexit.

    Why couldn't they prepare for something that doesn't work? Perhaps they should have paid more attention to the official UK government Border Operating Plan manual. Which says virtually nothing about the processes on the EU side of the border which sinks our exports.

    That these EU process for 3rd countries have been in place for a long time, and that the UK government explicitly insisted that we become a 3rd country makes it clear the blame is on the Scottish government and their allegedly paid lackeys.
    It just 'doesn't work' eh - odd then how the EU manages to be a net importer of fish (from outside the EU for avoidance of doubt), importing around 26 billion euros worth a year: https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/5-external-trade_en



    Strange how the impenetrable European single market that we clearly never should have left doesn't seem to trouble fishermen in Vietnam, India or America. They just seem to manage.
    Are you saying that the EU imports fresh fish from Vietnam?
    Not sure what that particular nugget has to do with anything. Fresh fish are imported from outside the single market and customs union - this is covered in the introduction:

    The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled. Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are the leading importing Member States.
    The thing about frozen fish is that its frozen. If the refrigerated trailer it's packed in loses an extra few days queuing for customs there's no harm to the product. So its not an issue for frozen imports from Vietnam.

    Fresh fish? That has to be shipped quickly. Which makes its market local. Which makes your map of the globe only to demonstrate your ignorance of the topic on which you are posting.

    It is Fresh Fish that is rotting. Not frozen. "It doesn't work eh" because you can't ship fresh fish from fucking Vietnam or America or wherever. Eh. So the process doesn't work for these other countries, eh, because it doesn't.

    You are like Philip. Clueless. But desperate to defend the government. So post guff.
    READ THE QUOTE AGAIN.

    READ THE WORD IN BOLD.
    But it isn't quantified, is it? Flouncy capitals = losing the argument.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    F1: who's got COVID-19? It is he, Leclerc:
    https://twitter.com/adamcooperF1/status/1349725819598372865

    Self-isolating in Monaco, eh? How tough can it get?
    You are in a flat - it's not as nice as isolating in a house with a garden.

    Mind you Nice had snow last weekend so it's not the typical weather down there.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited January 2021
    THEY'VE ACTUALLY DONE SOMETHING GOOD AND ALMOST TIMELY ALERT

    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1349745992099364868

    Even banning travel from Portugal as well as an obvious transit point.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Leon said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    Portugal is really bad too. Similar soaring rate to Ireland, so maybe Kentish Covid is doing its thing there, too. Total lockdown for 2 months from tomorrow.

    Dental question for Pb-ers. My teeth are in a right old state. Haven’t been cleaned for a year. Just forgot, when I had a chance in the summer.

    If I leave it much longer I’ll get gum problems. And dentists are open so I could get an appointment. Worth the risk?
    I wouldn't, Leon. Unless there is a truly contentious kissing issue with a significant other I'd just stay at home with the bad mouth until this is over.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687



    Black tea is I am sure doing bad things to mine. I can't remember the last time I went to the dentist to be honest, probably at least 3 years ago. British people are meant to have horrible teeth.

    You really should go, as soon as you can given the pandemic. It's not the teeth per se you should worry about, it's gum disease, which can lead to disagreeable consequences and is difficult to treat once it gets hold.
    Thanks, maybe I should schedule something. I got out of the habit because the dentist would only offer NHS appointments during work hours so I could never go. Not going private.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited January 2021
    "Influential Tories".* Oh dear.....

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1349744734139514880?s=20

    *Steve Baker, legend in his own lunchtime.....
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    Andy_JS said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    May/June? That's just unbelievable.
    It is absolutely pathetic. I mean, if that is anywhere near true it's an international disgrace on a grand scale.
    There is only so much manufacturing capacity to go around - so some countries were always going to lose out.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,356

    England: 248,177 total jabs yesterday, 239,815 first, 8,362 second. Total up 32% day on day, first 38%, second down 37%

    248k, not enough again.

    Needs to keep trending sharply upwards.
    I think we can be quietly satisfied with that trend for this week in England. Even more so if it keeps on into next week.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    England: 248,177 total jabs yesterday, 239,815 first, 8,362 second. Total up 32% day on day, first 38%, second down 37%

    248k, not enough again.

    Needs to keep trending sharply upwards.
    That's England only data, will be another 25-40k from NI, Scotland and Wales.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823
    Why? It's actually working.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    Portugal is really bad too. Similar soaring rate to Ireland, so maybe Kentish Covid is doing its thing there, too. Total lockdown for 2 months from tomorrow.

    Dental question for Pb-ers. My teeth are in a right old state. Haven’t been cleaned for a year. Just forgot, when I had a chance in the summer.

    If I leave it much longer I’ll get gum problems. And dentists are open so I could get an appointment. Worth the risk?
    Business as usual at mine, and the mask up pretty well anyway.
    Have you been? During lockdown?
    Several times, no problem.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    Another big bus I missed during the Brexit campaign - "There will be lots more paperwork - suck it up!".

    Don't know how you missed it, Remainers bleated on about it loads.

    But in any case, in a referendum it is the job of Remainers to provide the reasons against leaving. If they didn't put it on a bus, have a word with them for not bothering.
    Are you the same Philip Thompson who said during the referendum campaign that you personally favoured the EEA but that the type of Brexit was "a debate for the future" and advocated a second referendum on joining the EEA?

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/982270/#Comment_982270
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/982286/#Comment_982286
    Yes that is in March 2016 that is me. My views changed in 2016 from Remain, to EEA to fully out as the campaign progressed based on the arguments of the campaign.

    The referendum wasn't in March it was in June 2016 and by June EEA had been ruled out by Boris and Gove etc
    This is a process known as radicalisation.
    In fact he was groomed by Richard Tyndall.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    Portugal is really bad too. Similar soaring rate to Ireland, so maybe Kentish Covid is doing its thing there, too. Total lockdown for 2 months from tomorrow.

    Dental question for Pb-ers. My teeth are in a right old state. Haven’t been cleaned for a year. Just forgot, when I had a chance in the summer.

    If I leave it much longer I’ll get gum problems. And dentists are open so I could get an appointment. Worth the risk?
    Of course you should go if you can - I went yesterday. Extraction.

    AFAIK it is important stuff only - at least it is with our dental practice. No chance of a regular check up or a visit to hygienist (which I presume you are referring to) round here.

    I`m worried me about my children who haven`t had check ups for over a year.
    I got an appointment Monday. Cleaning. Which is pretty crucial if you haven’t had it done for a year
    You prompted me to give it a go. Much to my surprise I got in with dental hygienist next Thursday. They apologised that prices had gone up due to PPE, disinfecting etc - £99 ! Wow. That`s a 100% increase.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,451
    edited January 2021
    And 11,602 in Wales

    Brittas will still be complaining though. Should be doing 8 days a week, 25hrs hrs a day.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    Richard Leonard has quit as Scottish Labour leader
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    May/June? That's just unbelievable.
    It is absolutely pathetic. I mean, if that is anywhere near true it's an international disgrace on a grand scale.
    There is only so much manufacturing capacity to go around - so some countries were always going to lose out.
    Then build more, subsidise BioNTech to build more, we knew this was coming for a year. The UK government literally paid AZ to build UK manufacturing capacity for the Oxford vaccine. It was, iirc, one of the reasons we didn't go into the EU scheme because it would not have covered what we were planning with onshoring the AZ/Ox vaccine and we'd have had to scale back our ambitions to just a standard purchase agreement with AZ procuring supply from the Serum Institute of India and a few smaller scale manufacturers in Europe and America and nothing domestic.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    How do they suppose they are going to get out of all this?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Alistair said:

    THEY'VE ACTUALLY DONE SOMETHING GOOD AND ALMOST TIMELY ALERT

    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1349745992099364868

    Even banning travel from Portugal as well as an obvious transit point.

    Let's read the small print. Does he mean "arrivals" (or specifically "anyone who has been present in country X in the last 14 days") or does he mean "flights"?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    May/June? That's just unbelievable.
    It is absolutely pathetic. I mean, if that is anywhere near true it's an international disgrace on a grand scale.
    There is only so much manufacturing capacity to go around - so some countries were always going to lose out.
    Then build more, subsidise BioNTech to build more, we knew this was coming for a year. The UK government literally paid AZ to build UK manufacturing capacity for the Oxford vaccine. It was, iirc, one of the reasons we didn't go into the EU scheme because it would not have covered what we were planning with onshoring the AZ/Ox vaccine and we'd have had to scale back our ambitions to just a standard purchase agreement with AZ procuring supply from the Serum Institute of India and a few smaller scale manufacturers in Europe and America and nothing domestic.
    Yes the EU should have done so a year ago.

    It's a shame they didn't but it's not something that can be fixed rapidly now.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Alistair said:

    THEY'VE ACTUALLY DONE SOMETHING GOOD AND ALMOST TIMELY ALERT

    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1349745992099364868

    Even banning travel from Portugal as well as an obvious transit point.

    Yeah, that's surprising, we should have banned incoming travel from the Netherlands as part of our SA ban.
  • Richard Leonard has quit as Scottish Labour leader

    What took him so long?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,871

    "Influential Tories".* Oh dear.....

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1349744734139514880?s=20

    *Steve Baker, legend in his own lunchtime.....

    Load of berks, no doubt.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    MaxPB said:

    England: 248,177 total jabs yesterday, 239,815 first, 8,362 second. Total up 32% day on day, first 38%, second down 37%

    248k, not enough again.

    Needs to keep trending sharply upwards.
    That's England only data, will be another 25-40k from NI, Scotland and Wales.
    With 16k from Scotland that might be a tad optimistic.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,889

    Richard Leonard has quit as Scottish Labour leader

    What took him so long?
    The hand of history was on his shoulders.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,356
    BBC News really going for that coveted No Shit Sherlock Award:

    "Covid has 'calamitous impact' on surgery wait times"

    Why do they think we have had a series of lockdowns to stop the NHS crashing further?

    Also, in the same issue, clearly in the running for both the Shoe-horning Advertising Our Programming into Covid News Award AND the Who Really Gives A Fuck? Award:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-55650668



  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    May/June? That's just unbelievable.
    It is absolutely pathetic. I mean, if that is anywhere near true it's an international disgrace on a grand scale.
    There is only so much manufacturing capacity to go around - so some countries were always going to lose out.
    Then build more, subsidise BioNTech to build more, we knew this was coming for a year. The UK government literally paid AZ to build UK manufacturing capacity for the Oxford vaccine. It was, iirc, one of the reasons we didn't go into the EU scheme because it would not have covered what we were planning with onshoring the AZ/Ox vaccine and we'd have had to scale back our ambitions to just a standard purchase agreement with AZ procuring supply from the Serum Institute of India and a few smaller scale manufacturers in Europe and America and nothing domestic.
    Yes the EU should have done so a year ago.

    It's a shame they didn't but it's not something that can be fixed rapidly now.
    And who is being held accountable for that error. The UK government had the foresight to onshore manufacturing and include priority supply clauses in it's Pfizer and J&J contracts as they weren't going to be manufactured here. Who pays the price in the EU for not paying BioNTech to build capacity in Germany? If the German government were running their own scheme I have absolutely no doubt that domestic manufacturing would have been part of the deal.
  • May I suggest his question was a pathetic attempt to fix on something in my response that he found somewhat whimsical, to cover up the fact that his entire argument, that you can't export fish into the EU from outside it, is now nothing more than a smouldering crater.

    It is clear that you *can* export fish into the EU.
    It is clear that several countries make a lot of money from doing so.
    It is clear that this includes fresh fish, as well as crustaceans and molluscs - that information is also provided in the information I posted.

    Since it is clearly not impossible, or even unprofitable, to sell fish to the EU, from countries further afield than the UK, it then becomes quite clear that these are administrative problems that can be worked on, some being solved in days, some in weeks, a few in months. Unfortunately that doesn't help the hand-flapping argument of the Scottish Government and associated hangers on that it's all an insoluble feature of not being in the EU.

    You can't easily import FRESH fish. Nobody said anything about frozen you halfwit.

    Read the report that you posted. There is no breakdown of Fresh imports from the rest of the world. In the data tables it only refers to "Fresh and Chilled". And non-EU includes Norway. Which is in the EEA. And doesn't require the paperwork that we do.

    You're as bad as Philip with your strawmen arguments.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,356

    Going to be just short of 300k vaccinations across UK yesterday.

    A1, Boris....

    Now for 500k.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    May/June? That's just unbelievable.
    It is absolutely pathetic. I mean, if that is anywhere near true it's an international disgrace on a grand scale.
    There is only so much manufacturing capacity to go around - so some countries were always going to lose out.
    Then build more, subsidise BioNTech to build more, we knew this was coming for a year. The UK government literally paid AZ to build UK manufacturing capacity for the Oxford vaccine. It was, iirc, one of the reasons we didn't go into the EU scheme because it would not have covered what we were planning with onshoring the AZ/Ox vaccine and we'd have had to scale back our ambitions to just a standard purchase agreement with AZ procuring supply from the Serum Institute of India and a few smaller scale manufacturers in Europe and America and nothing domestic.
    An early and notable advantage of Brexit.

  • eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).

    What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.

    Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
    Given that they are presenting evidence with figures to go along their statements why isn't it gospel?
    RT frequently provide figures to back up their stories, but you don't treat anything printed there as gospel, you treat it as propaganda from the mouthpiece of Putin. We take the figures and evidence that says what you want it to say.

    By the way, I'm not denying that transitioning from the EU to no EU has caused kinks for exporters, and that these kinks are not particularly difficult for exporters of freshly caught fish. There are valid questions to be asked to both the UK and Scottish Governments about why preparations were not better, given that an exit from the single market and customs union was baked in regardless of the deal or no deal outcomes. However, we are not asking those tough questions when it all becomes an agenda-driven rant about Brexit.

    Why couldn't they prepare for something that doesn't work? Perhaps they should have paid more attention to the official UK government Border Operating Plan manual. Which says virtually nothing about the processes on the EU side of the border which sinks our exports.

    That these EU process for 3rd countries have been in place for a long time, and that the UK government explicitly insisted that we become a 3rd country makes it clear the blame is on the Scottish government and their allegedly paid lackeys.
    It just 'doesn't work' eh - odd then how the EU manages to be a net importer of fish (from outside the EU for avoidance of doubt), importing around 26 billion euros worth a year: https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/5-external-trade_en



    Strange how the impenetrable European single market that we clearly never should have left doesn't seem to trouble fishermen in Vietnam, India or America. They just seem to manage.
    Are you saying that the EU imports fresh fish from Vietnam?
    Not sure what that particular nugget has to do with anything. Fresh fish are imported from outside the single market and customs union - this is covered in the introduction:

    The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled. Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are the leading importing Member States.
    The thing about frozen fish is that its frozen. If the refrigerated trailer it's packed in loses an extra few days queuing for customs there's no harm to the product. So its not an issue for frozen imports from Vietnam.

    Fresh fish? That has to be shipped quickly. Which makes its market local. Which makes your map of the globe only to demonstrate your ignorance of the topic on which you are posting.

    It is Fresh Fish that is rotting. Not frozen. "It doesn't work eh" because you can't ship fresh fish from fucking Vietnam or America or wherever. Eh. So the process doesn't work for these other countries, eh, because it doesn't.

    You are like Philip. Clueless. But desperate to defend the government. So post guff.
    READ THE QUOTE AGAIN.

    READ THE WORD IN BOLD.
    Tell me which countries export fresh (the word in bold) fish to the EU...

    Hint it's not Vietnam or the USA...
    Its going to be Norway. Or Iceland. In the EEA. Unlike the UK.
  • Richard Leonard has quit as Scottish Labour leader

    Who?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    May/June? That's just unbelievable.
    It is absolutely pathetic. I mean, if that is anywhere near true it's an international disgrace on a grand scale.
    There is only so much manufacturing capacity to go around - so some countries were always going to lose out.
    Then build more, subsidise BioNTech to build more, we knew this was coming for a year. The UK government literally paid AZ to build UK manufacturing capacity for the Oxford vaccine. It was, iirc, one of the reasons we didn't go into the EU scheme because it would not have covered what we were planning with onshoring the AZ/Ox vaccine and we'd have had to scale back our ambitions to just a standard purchase agreement with AZ procuring supply from the Serum Institute of India and a few smaller scale manufacturers in Europe and America and nothing domestic.
    Yes the EU should have done so a year ago.

    It's a shame they didn't but it's not something that can be fixed rapidly now.
    "It's a shame" seems like pathetically weak phraseology for what appears to be a public health disaster playing out in real time.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    IshmaelZ said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).

    What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.

    Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
    Given that they are presenting evidence with figures to go along their statements why isn't it gospel?
    RT frequently provide figures to back up their stories, but you don't treat anything printed there as gospel, you treat it as propaganda from the mouthpiece of Putin. We take the figures and evidence that says what you want it to say.

    By the way, I'm not denying that transitioning from the EU to no EU has caused kinks for exporters, and that these kinks are not particularly difficult for exporters of freshly caught fish. There are valid questions to be asked to both the UK and Scottish Governments about why preparations were not better, given that an exit from the single market and customs union was baked in regardless of the deal or no deal outcomes. However, we are not asking those tough questions when it all becomes an agenda-driven rant about Brexit.

    Why couldn't they prepare for something that doesn't work? Perhaps they should have paid more attention to the official UK government Border Operating Plan manual. Which says virtually nothing about the processes on the EU side of the border which sinks our exports.

    That these EU process for 3rd countries have been in place for a long time, and that the UK government explicitly insisted that we become a 3rd country makes it clear the blame is on the Scottish government and their allegedly paid lackeys.
    It just 'doesn't work' eh - odd then how the EU manages to be a net importer of fish (from outside the EU for avoidance of doubt), importing around 26 billion euros worth a year: https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/5-external-trade_en



    Strange how the impenetrable European single market that we clearly never should have left doesn't seem to trouble fishermen in Vietnam, India or America. They just seem to manage.
    Are you saying that the EU imports fresh fish from Vietnam?
    Not sure what that particular nugget has to do with anything. Fresh fish are imported from outside the single market and customs union - this is covered in the introduction:

    The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled. Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are the leading importing Member States.
    May I suggest you go back to Rochdale's question and think about your answer.

    Live exports have far tighter restrictions (but far higher market prices) than frozen products.

    The exports you are comparing us to are both very different and far more of a bulk none premium product.
    May I suggest his question was a pathetic attempt to fix on something in my response that he found somewhat whimsical, to cover up the fact that his entire argument, that you can't export fish into the EU from outside it, is now nothing more than a smouldering crater.

    It is clear that you *can* export fish into the EU.
    It is clear that several countries make a lot of money from doing so.
    It is clear that this includes fresh fish, as well as crustaceans and molluscs - that information is also provided in the information I posted.

    Since it is clearly not impossible, or even unprofitable, to sell fish to the EU, from countries further afield than the UK, it then becomes quite clear that these are administrative problems that can be worked on, some being solved in days, some in weeks, a few in months. Unfortunately that doesn't help the hand-flapping argument of the Scottish Government and associated hangers on that it's all an insoluble feature of not being in the EU.
    There is no logical through road from "The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled" to "It is clear that you *can* export fish into the EU. It is clear that several countries make a lot of money from doing so." What proportion is fresh, from which countries, and how much money is involved?
    Supplementary detail is always useful, but as it goes, there absolutely is a logical connection between those two points.

    We are being told the additional requirements under our current trade deal (which don't forget means no tariffs on fish exports) are not teething problems, but an insurmountable barrier to exporting fish into the EU. That is a position that is utterly insupportable by actual facts.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    MaxPB said:

    England: 248,177 total jabs yesterday, 239,815 first, 8,362 second. Total up 32% day on day, first 38%, second down 37%

    248k, not enough again.

    Needs to keep trending sharply upwards.
    That's England only data, will be another 25-40k from NI, Scotland and Wales.
    With 16k from Scotland that might be a tad optimistic.
    That seems a bit slow, is there bad weather holding it up? Wales did 10k yesterday and NI 7.2k first jabs and 2.5k second jabs. Even a repeat performance takes the UK total over 280k which I think is pretty decent, especially if they are almost all first jabs.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,356

    Richard Leonard has quit as Scottish Labour leader

    Who?
    Not so much a case of "we forget so soon" as "we never remembered,...."
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661

    Richard Leonard has quit as Scottish Labour leader

    Who?
    Understandable as they missed out the surname.

  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    Going to be just short of 300k vaccinations across UK yesterday.

    A1, Boris....

    Now for 500k.
    It will definitely be 500,000 next week. Each surgery will be operating like a flu vaccine clinic using the AZ vaccine.
  • Going to be just short of 300k vaccinations across UK yesterday.

    A1, Boris....

    Now for 500k.
    The reports were delivery of 3.8m new doses next week. So supply should be there.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,266
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Yes, I understand that Marcus had a word with Johnson today. Told him the score.
    Something like 6-0, isn't it?
    Yes. Rashford's scored a hattrick; the other 3 were own goals.
  • eek said:

    F1: who's got COVID-19? It is he, Leclerc:
    https://twitter.com/adamcooperF1/status/1349725819598372865

    Self-isolating in Monaco, eh? How tough can it get?
    You are in a flat - it's not as nice as isolating in a house with a garden.

    Mind you Nice had snow last weekend so it's not the typical weather down there.
    As we slog through the mud and the rain on the Cotswold Way my dog and I feel for you.
  • The next crucial milestone is all care home residents done. Then all the over 80s.

    With those all having had at least one dose, that should have a significant effect on deaths in the coming weeks.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,356
    Alistair said:

    THEY'VE ACTUALLY DONE SOMETHING GOOD AND ALMOST TIMELY ALERT

    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1349745992099364868

    Even banning travel from Portugal as well as an obvious transit point.

    The threatened formation of the Punch Grants Shapps in the Face Party is working.....
  • IshmaelZ said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).

    What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.

    Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
    Given that they are presenting evidence with figures to go along their statements why isn't it gospel?
    RT frequently provide figures to back up their stories, but you don't treat anything printed there as gospel, you treat it as propaganda from the mouthpiece of Putin. We take the figures and evidence that says what you want it to say.

    By the way, I'm not denying that transitioning from the EU to no EU has caused kinks for exporters, and that these kinks are not particularly difficult for exporters of freshly caught fish. There are valid questions to be asked to both the UK and Scottish Governments about why preparations were not better, given that an exit from the single market and customs union was baked in regardless of the deal or no deal outcomes. However, we are not asking those tough questions when it all becomes an agenda-driven rant about Brexit.

    Why couldn't they prepare for something that doesn't work? Perhaps they should have paid more attention to the official UK government Border Operating Plan manual. Which says virtually nothing about the processes on the EU side of the border which sinks our exports.

    That these EU process for 3rd countries have been in place for a long time, and that the UK government explicitly insisted that we become a 3rd country makes it clear the blame is on the Scottish government and their allegedly paid lackeys.
    It just 'doesn't work' eh - odd then how the EU manages to be a net importer of fish (from outside the EU for avoidance of doubt), importing around 26 billion euros worth a year: https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/5-external-trade_en



    Strange how the impenetrable European single market that we clearly never should have left doesn't seem to trouble fishermen in Vietnam, India or America. They just seem to manage.
    Are you saying that the EU imports fresh fish from Vietnam?
    Not sure what that particular nugget has to do with anything. Fresh fish are imported from outside the single market and customs union - this is covered in the introduction:

    The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled. Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are the leading importing Member States.
    May I suggest you go back to Rochdale's question and think about your answer.

    Live exports have far tighter restrictions (but far higher market prices) than frozen products.

    The exports you are comparing us to are both very different and far more of a bulk none premium product.
    May I suggest his question was a pathetic attempt to fix on something in my response that he found somewhat whimsical, to cover up the fact that his entire argument, that you can't export fish into the EU from outside it, is now nothing more than a smouldering crater.

    It is clear that you *can* export fish into the EU.
    It is clear that several countries make a lot of money from doing so.
    It is clear that this includes fresh fish, as well as crustaceans and molluscs - that information is also provided in the information I posted.

    Since it is clearly not impossible, or even unprofitable, to sell fish to the EU, from countries further afield than the UK, it then becomes quite clear that these are administrative problems that can be worked on, some being solved in days, some in weeks, a few in months. Unfortunately that doesn't help the hand-flapping argument of the Scottish Government and associated hangers on that it's all an insoluble feature of not being in the EU.
    There is no logical through road from "The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled" to "It is clear that you *can* export fish into the EU. It is clear that several countries make a lot of money from doing so." What proportion is fresh, from which countries, and how much money is involved?
    Supplementary detail is always useful, but as it goes, there absolutely is a logical connection between those two points.

    We are being told the additional requirements under our current trade deal (which don't forget means no tariffs on fish exports) are not teething problems, but an insurmountable barrier to exporting fish into the EU. That is a position that is utterly insupportable by actual facts.
    FRESH fish. From outside the EEA not just the EU. Importing fresh fish from Norway into the UK - what your link shows - is not importing fresh fish from a 3rd country into the EU.

    You hadn't actually read the report when you posted it, had you?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,767
    RobD said:

    Why? It's actually working.
    It'll be the thickest of the the thick tories.

    The public want this sorted, but sorted properly. However long it takes. March or April at the earliest.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,451
    edited January 2021
    With the good news on vaccinations, we wait what will be terrible daily reported death numbers.
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).

    What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.

    Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
    Given that they are presenting evidence with figures to go along their statements why isn't it gospel?
    RT frequently provide figures to back up their stories, but you don't treat anything printed there as gospel, you treat it as propaganda from the mouthpiece of Putin. We take the figures and evidence that says what you want it to say.

    By the way, I'm not denying that transitioning from the EU to no EU has caused kinks for exporters, and that these kinks are not particularly difficult for exporters of freshly caught fish. There are valid questions to be asked to both the UK and Scottish Governments about why preparations were not better, given that an exit from the single market and customs union was baked in regardless of the deal or no deal outcomes. However, we are not asking those tough questions when it all becomes an agenda-driven rant about Brexit.

    Why couldn't they prepare for something that doesn't work? Perhaps they should have paid more attention to the official UK government Border Operating Plan manual. Which says virtually nothing about the processes on the EU side of the border which sinks our exports.

    That these EU process for 3rd countries have been in place for a long time, and that the UK government explicitly insisted that we become a 3rd country makes it clear the blame is on the Scottish government and their allegedly paid lackeys.
    It just 'doesn't work' eh - odd then how the EU manages to be a net importer of fish (from outside the EU for avoidance of doubt), importing around 26 billion euros worth a year: https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/5-external-trade_en



    Strange how the impenetrable European single market that we clearly never should have left doesn't seem to trouble fishermen in Vietnam, India or America. They just seem to manage.
    Are you saying that the EU imports fresh fish from Vietnam?
    Not sure what that particular nugget has to do with anything. Fresh fish are imported from outside the single market and customs union - this is covered in the introduction:

    The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled. Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are the leading importing Member States.
    The thing about frozen fish is that its frozen. If the refrigerated trailer it's packed in loses an extra few days queuing for customs there's no harm to the product. So its not an issue for frozen imports from Vietnam.

    Fresh fish? That has to be shipped quickly. Which makes its market local. Which makes your map of the globe only to demonstrate your ignorance of the topic on which you are posting.

    It is Fresh Fish that is rotting. Not frozen. "It doesn't work eh" because you can't ship fresh fish from fucking Vietnam or America or wherever. Eh. So the process doesn't work for these other countries, eh, because it doesn't.

    You are like Philip. Clueless. But desperate to defend the government. So post guff.
    READ THE QUOTE AGAIN.

    READ THE WORD IN BOLD.
    Tell me which countries export fresh (the word in bold) fish to the EU...

    Hint it's not Vietnam or the USA...
    Its going to be Norway. Or Iceland. In the EEA. Unlike the UK.
    Norway aren't in the customs union though so what is fundamentally different?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113

    Alistair said:

    THEY'VE ACTUALLY DONE SOMETHING GOOD AND ALMOST TIMELY ALERT

    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1349745992099364868

    Even banning travel from Portugal as well as an obvious transit point.

    The threatened formation of the Punch Grants Shapps in the Face Party is working.....
    Shapps used to be a maggot farmer you know. See below. I love some of the comments.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/22/grant-shapps-tory-green-aliens-stewart-lee
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Stocky said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A regional breakdown of England's vaccines rollout shows the Midlands leading the way in the number of jabs administered, while London has the lowest vaccination rate."

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-more-than-2-3m-vaccine-jabs-given-across-england-as-midlands-leads-the-way-12187569

    Midlands has surely got an older population than London? Can think of lots of people who retired to Staffordshire from the Smoke (sell that mid-size that needs a bit of work for a huge sum, live like a king in a gorgeous house in Lichfield for the rest of your life.)
    Lichfield though
    It's a long tradition on PB of people who hate London, have never lived in London, have no wish to live in London, telling Londoners how much money/space they could 'gain' by living in Not London.

    What they don't seem to grasp is that many of us love London, don't want to leave London and have no desire whatsoever to live in Lichfield.
    I like both of them. And it's only an hour by train.
    I love London and am sure the millions who live there do so as well
    Only 50 mins by train for me. I happily wander around going from cafe to cafe. Sometimes it can get a bit OCD - with me vetting possible cafes before committing myself. Key features are proper espresso machine (obvs) and comfy chair (sofa ideally) to sit and people-watch. Easter maybe?
    The flaneur. Book on lap, eyes elsewhere. Coffee lasts an age. Great thing to do.

    The flaneur. That's what they call it in Paris. In London? - no equivalent term sadly.
  • RobD said:

    Why? It's actually working.
    It'll be the thickest of the the thick tories.

    The public want this sorted, but sorted properly. However long it takes. March or April at the earliest.
    The public is OK to be at home in winter when a quarter of a million plus are being vaccinated daily.

    Get it sorted properly by the Spring. Not a half-arsed half-measure.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    May/June? That's just unbelievable.
    It is absolutely pathetic. I mean, if that is anywhere near true it's an international disgrace on a grand scale.
    There is only so much manufacturing capacity to go around - so some countries were always going to lose out.
    Then build more, subsidise BioNTech to build more, we knew this was coming for a year. The UK government literally paid AZ to build UK manufacturing capacity for the Oxford vaccine. It was, iirc, one of the reasons we didn't go into the EU scheme because it would not have covered what we were planning with onshoring the AZ/Ox vaccine and we'd have had to scale back our ambitions to just a standard purchase agreement with AZ procuring supply from the Serum Institute of India and a few smaller scale manufacturers in Europe and America and nothing domestic.
    Yes the EU should have done so a year ago.

    It's a shame they didn't but it's not something that can be fixed rapidly now.
    "It's a shame" seems like pathetically weak phraseology for what appears to be a public health disaster playing out in real time.
    Of course the answer isn't as simple as it would seem. In an EU scheme subsidies become a lightning rod for arguments over where the money gets spent. If Germany says "BioNTech is a German company, we will keep the manufacturing here" then France says "It's EU money so that means Sanofi deserves the same subsidy for manufacturing in France" and Belgium pipes up and says "well then Valneva needs a bung too" and what was originally a scheme for purchasing vaccines becomes a new vehicle for pharma subsidies, no contracts are signed because of the interminable arguments over which company gets which subsidies and where the jobs land.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320

    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Have we seen this yet

    https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977

    Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.

    I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
    Have you read the article?
    1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories
    2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on”
    3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation."
    4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"

    Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"

    You were saying...?
    Seafood Scotland is an industry body that has been funded by the EU, and The Scottish Government:
    https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/eu-cash-boost-for-seafood-scotland/
    https://fishingnews.co.uk/news/ssa-seafish-must-change/

    So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.

    Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.

    These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
    Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.

    You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
    No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).

    What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.

    Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
    Given that they are presenting evidence with figures to go along their statements why isn't it gospel?
    RT frequently provide figures to back up their stories, but you don't treat anything printed there as gospel, you treat it as propaganda from the mouthpiece of Putin. We take the figures and evidence that says what you want it to say.

    By the way, I'm not denying that transitioning from the EU to no EU has caused kinks for exporters, and that these kinks are not particularly difficult for exporters of freshly caught fish. There are valid questions to be asked to both the UK and Scottish Governments about why preparations were not better, given that an exit from the single market and customs union was baked in regardless of the deal or no deal outcomes. However, we are not asking those tough questions when it all becomes an agenda-driven rant about Brexit.

    Why couldn't they prepare for something that doesn't work? Perhaps they should have paid more attention to the official UK government Border Operating Plan manual. Which says virtually nothing about the processes on the EU side of the border which sinks our exports.

    That these EU process for 3rd countries have been in place for a long time, and that the UK government explicitly insisted that we become a 3rd country makes it clear the blame is on the Scottish government and their allegedly paid lackeys.
    It just 'doesn't work' eh - odd then how the EU manages to be a net importer of fish (from outside the EU for avoidance of doubt), importing around 26 billion euros worth a year: https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/5-external-trade_en



    Strange how the impenetrable European single market that we clearly never should have left doesn't seem to trouble fishermen in Vietnam, India or America. They just seem to manage.
    Are you saying that the EU imports fresh fish from Vietnam?
    Not sure what that particular nugget has to do with anything. Fresh fish are imported from outside the single market and customs union - this is covered in the introduction:

    The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled. Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are the leading importing Member States.
    The thing about frozen fish is that its frozen. If the refrigerated trailer it's packed in loses an extra few days queuing for customs there's no harm to the product. So its not an issue for frozen imports from Vietnam.

    Fresh fish? That has to be shipped quickly. Which makes its market local. Which makes your map of the globe only to demonstrate your ignorance of the topic on which you are posting.

    It is Fresh Fish that is rotting. Not frozen. "It doesn't work eh" because you can't ship fresh fish from fucking Vietnam or America or wherever. Eh. So the process doesn't work for these other countries, eh, because it doesn't.

    You are like Philip. Clueless. But desperate to defend the government. So post guff.
    READ THE QUOTE AGAIN.

    READ THE WORD IN BOLD.
    Tell me which countries export fresh (the word in bold) fish to the EU...

    Hint it's not Vietnam or the USA...
    Its going to be Norway. Or Iceland. In the EEA. Unlike the UK.
    Norway aren't in the customs union though so what is fundamentally different?
    Is that not a question you asked yourself on your journey from Remain to Hard Brexit?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,767
    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1349750812415819777

    Going well for Macron... how many vaccines are they on now?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,266
    Sarwar would be good, more centrist and telegenic than Leonard.

    So with Corbyn and Leonard gone, just Drakeford of the home nation Corbynista Labour leaders left to remove
  • For laughs, I'd like to see James Kelly. But Sarwar is most likely.

    Any remaining Tankies in ScotLab will then depart, as they will think he's a Tory.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Stocky said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "A regional breakdown of England's vaccines rollout shows the Midlands leading the way in the number of jabs administered, while London has the lowest vaccination rate."

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-more-than-2-3m-vaccine-jabs-given-across-england-as-midlands-leads-the-way-12187569

    Midlands has surely got an older population than London? Can think of lots of people who retired to Staffordshire from the Smoke (sell that mid-size that needs a bit of work for a huge sum, live like a king in a gorgeous house in Lichfield for the rest of your life.)
    Lichfield though
    It's a long tradition on PB of people who hate London, have never lived in London, have no wish to live in London, telling Londoners how much money/space they could 'gain' by living in Not London.

    What they don't seem to grasp is that many of us love London, don't want to leave London and have no desire whatsoever to live in Lichfield.
    I like both of them. And it's only an hour by train.
    I love London and am sure the millions who live there do so as well
    Only 50 mins by train for me. I happily wander around going from cafe to cafe. Sometimes it can get a bit OCD - with me vetting possible cafes before committing myself. Key features are proper espresso machine (obvs) and comfy chair (sofa ideally) to sit and people-watch. Easter maybe?
    The flaneur. Book on lap, eyes elsewhere. Coffee lasts an age. Great thing to do.

    The flaneur. That's what they call it in Paris. In London? - no equivalent term sadly.
    Idler?
This discussion has been closed.