"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Mr RP, for the sake of your blood pressure, I'd cease from engaging with him. It doesn't matter what you say. I am aware that I know nothing much, but you do, and yet he still Geoffrey Boycotts you. He's a troll, nothing more nothing less. He is laughing his socks off.
Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".
As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.
Isn't it more there is only a limited supply to go around Europe and we have a large proportion of that supply at the moment due to being quicker to get organized.
Supply is contracted and we signed our contract with Pfizer months before the EU.
My point is that the people are being let down by their governments and completely unaccountable eurocrats. How does the guy in Germany waiting 6 months for his vaccine complain to the EU that they fucked it up? How does he get rid of the arseholes who completely ballsed up the most important procurement scheme the EU has ever faced or the the instructions to the regulator to not use emergency approval measures as the UK and US have done?
I've seen barely any criticism of the EU from European leaders and politicians, even though it's completely obvious how badly this has been bungled. Making our government accountable for our supply is absolutely great, our media can bang the government hard if we don't hit the 15m target, it's in our hands and if Boris and Hancock fuck it up then we know who is to blame and exactly who to vote for next time so we can get rid of them.
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Just a thought - it is becoming transparently obvious that Brexit is proving (so far) to be pretty bad for fisherfolk of this country (UK).
There are many examples you have been given from industry bodies to The Daily Jingo Express.
So I think it's fair to say, for UK fishing, for now, it's a shitshow.
I don't see the big problem in accepting this. Omelettes and eggs spring to mind and fishermen? Who the hell cares, right?
It's the fact that you continue to see no ships when the whole Spanish and French navies are lined up against you that is undermining your medium term Brexit a triumph narrative (and don't forget how Trafalgar turned out so don't be scared to admit temporary defeat).
I think that's a fairly simple mischaracterisation of my view. I think it would be astonishing if there were not issues when leaving an organisation like the EU. We were part of this for 47 years. And I think fishing has undoubtedly been at the sharper end.
That doesn't mean I don't think that the problems are being magnified, and potentially even worsened by the Scottish Government pursuing an anti-Brexit agenda and using its appointees to do the same. They were given signicant funds to prepare for Brexit, and even clawed back some of the Covid-19 funds they received to deal with Brexit. It's hard to see what they've done with that money, apart from push videos wailing about it on Twitter. Which I suppose is what you get when you elect a campaign group rather than a Government.
I would be interested to understand what they could have done.
Quote from the story: Checks in Scotland are performed by Scottish Government agencies, and Jimmy Buchan of the Scottish Seafood Association said that a check that should take no more than one hour “is taking nearly five hours.”
He added: “The problem is definitely in Scotland, at the hubs prior to dispatch. It’s the one thing that we have continuously asked Government, are they ready? They kept asking us, were we ready? And we are ready, but it appears that Government are not.”
At the very unsophisticated end of things, employ more staff to speed the checking process initially?
The checks have to be done by qualified vets. Any ideas where to find qualified vets at zero notice?
Why is it zero notice? They knew that this was coming years ago. They were told to prepare for WTO terms months ago. Why are they only now dealing with it.
Explains why the bulk of the complains are coming from Scottish fishermen.
Well I supposed they could have bussed them in as migrants from other countries. Vets don't grow on trees. They need to be trained.
"A regional breakdown of England's vaccines rollout shows the Midlands leading the way in the number of jabs administered, while London has the lowest vaccination rate."
Midlands has surely got an older population than London? Can think of lots of people who retired to Staffordshire from the Smoke (sell that mid-size that needs a bit of work for a huge sum, live like a king in a gorgeous house in Lichfield for the rest of your life.)
Lichfield though
It's a long tradition on PB of people who hate London, have never lived in London, have no wish to live in London, telling Londoners how much money/space they could 'gain' by living in Not London.
What they don't seem to grasp is that many of us love London, don't want to leave London and have no desire whatsoever to live in Lichfield.
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Mr RP, for the sake of your blood pressure, I'd cease from engaging with him. It doesn't matter what you say. I am aware that I know nothing much, but you do, and yet he still Geoffrey Boycotts you. He's a troll, nothing more nothing less. He is laughing his socks off.
No I think he's funny. He is Baldrick in Blackadder's Court Marshall. "Deny Everything"
Just a thought - it is becoming transparently obvious that Brexit is proving (so far) to be pretty bad for fisherfolk of this country (UK).
There are many examples you have been given from industry bodies to The Daily Jingo Express.
So I think it's fair to say, for UK fishing, for now, it's a shitshow.
I don't see the big problem in accepting this. Omelettes and eggs spring to mind and fishermen? Who the hell cares, right?
It's the fact that you continue to see no ships when the whole Spanish and French navies are lined up against you that is undermining your medium term Brexit a triumph narrative (and don't forget how Trafalgar turned out so don't be scared to admit temporary defeat).
I think that's a fairly simple mischaracterisation of my view. I think it would be astonishing if there were not issues when leaving an organisation like the EU. We were part of this for 47 years. And I think fishing has undoubtedly been at the sharper end.
That doesn't mean I don't think that the problems are being magnified, and potentially even worsened by the Scottish Government pursuing an anti-Brexit agenda and using its appointees to do the same. They were given signicant funds to prepare for Brexit, and even clawed back some of the Covid-19 funds they received to deal with Brexit. It's hard to see what they've done with that money, apart from push videos wailing about it on Twitter. Which I suppose is what you get when you elect a campaign group rather than a Government.
I would be interested to understand what they could have done.
Quote from the story: Checks in Scotland are performed by Scottish Government agencies, and Jimmy Buchan of the Scottish Seafood Association said that a check that should take no more than one hour “is taking nearly five hours.”
He added: “The problem is definitely in Scotland, at the hubs prior to dispatch. It’s the one thing that we have continuously asked Government, are they ready? They kept asking us, were we ready? And we are ready, but it appears that Government are not.”
At the very unsophisticated end of things, employ more staff to speed the checking process initially?
The checks have to be done by qualified vets. Any ideas where to find qualified vets at zero notice?
Why is it zero notice? They knew that this was coming years ago. They were told to prepare for WTO terms months ago. Why are they only now dealing with it.
Explains why the bulk of the complains are coming from Scottish fishermen.
ISTR reading last year that very few British vets were interested in doing this sort of work, and so those doing it were predominantly from the EU, lots of whom have now left because they don't feel welcome in the UK anymore.
And I do hope that recognition of their EU qualifications got grandfathered in too.
Requiring a vet to do the check seems a case of requiring overqualification. What are the task competences to do the job effectively? Can a vet tech or a lab tech do that task, or receive additional targeted training to ensure full competence for the task? Seems a more sensible route than just insisting a vet must do the job, particularly if vets don't want to do it.
Yes, I understand that Marcus had a word with Johnson today. Told him the score.
I imagine Marcus first re-enacted that scene from Downfall after seeing the BBC news story, then quietly gathered himself together and calmly said "Get me Boris on the phone"
Just a thought - it is becoming transparently obvious that Brexit is proving (so far) to be pretty bad for fisherfolk of this country (UK).
There are many examples you have been given from industry bodies to The Daily Jingo Express.
So I think it's fair to say, for UK fishing, for now, it's a shitshow.
I don't see the big problem in accepting this. Omelettes and eggs spring to mind and fishermen? Who the hell cares, right?
It's the fact that you continue to see no ships when the whole Spanish and French navies are lined up against you that is undermining your medium term Brexit a triumph narrative (and don't forget how Trafalgar turned out so don't be scared to admit temporary defeat).
I think that's a fairly simple mischaracterisation of my view. I think it would be astonishing if there were not issues when leaving an organisation like the EU. We were part of this for 47 years. And I think fishing has undoubtedly been at the sharper end.
That doesn't mean I don't think that the problems are being magnified, and potentially even worsened by the Scottish Government pursuing an anti-Brexit agenda and using its appointees to do the same. They were given signicant funds to prepare for Brexit, and even clawed back some of the Covid-19 funds they received to deal with Brexit. It's hard to see what they've done with that money, apart from push videos wailing about it on Twitter. Which I suppose is what you get when you elect a campaign group rather than a Government.
I would be interested to understand what they could have done.
They could have warned about CHEDs and warned the fishermen to get this sorted as it would be needed. They didn't, so it seems they didn't see it coming either.
But CHEDs may not have been necessary - remember we didn't know what the deal covered until December 24th
The advice was to prepare for WTO. That means prepare for everything, if it isn't needed then so be it you can cancel that preparation. Are CHEDs needed for WTO? If so, they should have been prepared for.
I always thought things like this would end up overlooked in the real world, hence Iwhy I expected disruption in January. C'est la vie.
If they needed to be prepared for, why did our own government not bother? Their Border Operating Model guidance is strangely quiet on the fact that bribing bored French customs agents would be required.
I would expect it got overlooked.
I expected something would, it is why I always expected disruption in January. There was always going to be something overlooked. Its natural.
Just a thought - it is becoming transparently obvious that Brexit is proving (so far) to be pretty bad for fisherfolk of this country (UK).
There are many examples you have been given from industry bodies to The Daily Jingo Express.
So I think it's fair to say, for UK fishing, for now, it's a shitshow.
I don't see the big problem in accepting this. Omelettes and eggs spring to mind and fishermen? Who the hell cares, right?
It's the fact that you continue to see no ships when the whole Spanish and French navies are lined up against you that is undermining your medium term Brexit a triumph narrative (and don't forget how Trafalgar turned out so don't be scared to admit temporary defeat).
I think that's a fairly simple mischaracterisation of my view. I think it would be astonishing if there were not issues when leaving an organisation like the EU. We were part of this for 47 years. And I think fishing has undoubtedly been at the sharper end.
That doesn't mean I don't think that the problems are being magnified, and potentially even worsened by the Scottish Government pursuing an anti-Brexit agenda and using its appointees to do the same. They were given signicant funds to prepare for Brexit, and even clawed back some of the Covid-19 funds they received to deal with Brexit. It's hard to see what they've done with that money, apart from push videos wailing about it on Twitter. Which I suppose is what you get when you elect a campaign group rather than a Government.
I would be interested to understand what they could have done.
They could have warned about CHEDs and warned the fishermen to get this sorted as it would be needed. They didn't, so it seems they didn't see it coming either.
But CHEDs may not have been necessary - remember we didn't know what the deal covered until December 24th
The advice was to prepare for WTO. That means prepare for everything, if it isn't needed then so be it you can cancel that preparation. Are CHEDs needed for WTO? If so, they should have been prepared for.
I always thought things like this would end up overlooked in the real world, hence Iwhy I expected disruption in January. C'est la vie.
Would love to see how you walk out the door on a fine summer's day. Galoshes and souwester at the ready.
This may surprise you but I keep a raincoat on a hook by the front door even during the summer. I don't take it if I don't need it but if its raining, I take the coat, I don't think "nobody warned me it might be raining during the summer, now I need to source a coat" - I already have one ready in case its needed.
What about galoshes?
Considering I don't own any and have never used them in my life and had to just Google to find out what they are - I am going to say that I won't use them in the summer, no.
What if we get a typical summer downpour placing your shoes at risk of getting soaked?
Then my shoes get soaked. When did that become the end of the world?
So you are not following your own advice. You said that the fishermen should have prepared for (it seems) any outcome. Now you say they shouldn't have bothered.
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Indeed. So as we're now seeing real world examples where the product cost increases by a good 40% when selling into the EU, vs 0% by competitors in the EU, the solution is for the business who has built up that trade to go sell products to someone else.
Anyone know what the rules are about going for a short ride in car (within 5 miles) (not getting out of car at any point). No risk obviously, but common sense seems out of fashion.
Daughter upset because her driving lessons have stopped and wants to go out with me with L plates on in a nearby industrial estate for a practice. I don`t want to get nicked.
"A regional breakdown of England's vaccines rollout shows the Midlands leading the way in the number of jabs administered, while London has the lowest vaccination rate."
Midlands has surely got an older population than London? Can think of lots of people who retired to Staffordshire from the Smoke (sell that mid-size that needs a bit of work for a huge sum, live like a king in a gorgeous house in Lichfield for the rest of your life.)
Lichfield though
It's a long tradition on PB of people who hate London, have never lived in London, have no wish to live in London, telling Londoners how much money/space they could 'gain' by living in Not London.
What they don't seem to grasp is that many of us love London, don't want to leave London and have no desire whatsoever to live in Lichfield.
I like both of them. And it's only an hour by train.
Just a thought - it is becoming transparently obvious that Brexit is proving (so far) to be pretty bad for fisherfolk of this country (UK).
There are many examples you have been given from industry bodies to The Daily Jingo Express.
So I think it's fair to say, for UK fishing, for now, it's a shitshow.
I don't see the big problem in accepting this. Omelettes and eggs spring to mind and fishermen? Who the hell cares, right?
It's the fact that you continue to see no ships when the whole Spanish and French navies are lined up against you that is undermining your medium term Brexit a triumph narrative (and don't forget how Trafalgar turned out so don't be scared to admit temporary defeat).
I think that's a fairly simple mischaracterisation of my view. I think it would be astonishing if there were not issues when leaving an organisation like the EU. We were part of this for 47 years. And I think fishing has undoubtedly been at the sharper end.
That doesn't mean I don't think that the problems are being magnified, and potentially even worsened by the Scottish Government pursuing an anti-Brexit agenda and using its appointees to do the same. They were given signicant funds to prepare for Brexit, and even clawed back some of the Covid-19 funds they received to deal with Brexit. It's hard to see what they've done with that money, apart from push videos wailing about it on Twitter. Which I suppose is what you get when you elect a campaign group rather than a Government.
I would be interested to understand what they could have done.
Quote from the story: Checks in Scotland are performed by Scottish Government agencies, and Jimmy Buchan of the Scottish Seafood Association said that a check that should take no more than one hour “is taking nearly five hours.”
He added: “The problem is definitely in Scotland, at the hubs prior to dispatch. It’s the one thing that we have continuously asked Government, are they ready? They kept asking us, were we ready? And we are ready, but it appears that Government are not.”
At the very unsophisticated end of things, employ more staff to speed the checking process initially?
The checks have to be done by qualified vets. Any ideas where to find qualified vets at zero notice?
Why is it zero notice? They knew that this was coming years ago. They were told to prepare for WTO terms months ago. Why are they only now dealing with it.
Explains why the bulk of the complains are coming from Scottish fishermen.
Well I supposed they could have bussed them in as migrants from other countries. Vets don't grow on trees. They need to be trained.
So if that's what is needed it can happen. 🤷🏻♂️
Supply and demand ought to help sort this out, if there's sufficient demand then someone will want the job.
Just a thought - it is becoming transparently obvious that Brexit is proving (so far) to be pretty bad for fisherfolk of this country (UK).
There are many examples you have been given from industry bodies to The Daily Jingo Express.
So I think it's fair to say, for UK fishing, for now, it's a shitshow.
I don't see the big problem in accepting this. Omelettes and eggs spring to mind and fishermen? Who the hell cares, right?
It's the fact that you continue to see no ships when the whole Spanish and French navies are lined up against you that is undermining your medium term Brexit a triumph narrative (and don't forget how Trafalgar turned out so don't be scared to admit temporary defeat).
I think that's a fairly simple mischaracterisation of my view. I think it would be astonishing if there were not issues when leaving an organisation like the EU. We were part of this for 47 years. And I think fishing has undoubtedly been at the sharper end.
That doesn't mean I don't think that the problems are being magnified, and potentially even worsened by the Scottish Government pursuing an anti-Brexit agenda and using its appointees to do the same. They were given signicant funds to prepare for Brexit, and even clawed back some of the Covid-19 funds they received to deal with Brexit. It's hard to see what they've done with that money, apart from push videos wailing about it on Twitter. Which I suppose is what you get when you elect a campaign group rather than a Government.
I would be interested to understand what they could have done.
They could have warned about CHEDs and warned the fishermen to get this sorted as it would be needed. They didn't, so it seems they didn't see it coming either.
But CHEDs may not have been necessary - remember we didn't know what the deal covered until December 24th
The advice was to prepare for WTO. That means prepare for everything, if it isn't needed then so be it you can cancel that preparation. Are CHEDs needed for WTO? If so, they should have been prepared for.
I always thought things like this would end up overlooked in the real world, hence Iwhy I expected disruption in January. C'est la vie.
Would love to see how you walk out the door on a fine summer's day. Galoshes and souwester at the ready.
This may surprise you but I keep a raincoat on a hook by the front door even during the summer. I don't take it if I don't need it but if its raining, I take the coat, I don't think "nobody warned me it might be raining during the summer, now I need to source a coat" - I already have one ready in case its needed.
What about galoshes?
Considering I don't own any and have never used them in my life and had to just Google to find out what they are - I am going to say that I won't use them in the summer, no.
What if we get a typical summer downpour placing your shoes at risk of getting soaked?
Then my shoes get soaked. When did that become the end of the world?
So you are not following your own advice. You said that the fishermen should have prepared for (it seems) any outcome. Now you say they shouldn't have bothered.
Anyone know what the rules are about going for a short ride in car (within 5 miles) (not getting out of car at any point). No risk obviously, but common sense seems out of fashion.
Daughter upset because her driving lessons have stopped and wants to go out with me with L plates on in a nearby industrial estate for a practice. I don`t want to get nicked.
Just a thought - it is becoming transparently obvious that Brexit is proving (so far) to be pretty bad for fisherfolk of this country (UK).
There are many examples you have been given from industry bodies to The Daily Jingo Express.
So I think it's fair to say, for UK fishing, for now, it's a shitshow.
I don't see the big problem in accepting this. Omelettes and eggs spring to mind and fishermen? Who the hell cares, right?
It's the fact that you continue to see no ships when the whole Spanish and French navies are lined up against you that is undermining your medium term Brexit a triumph narrative (and don't forget how Trafalgar turned out so don't be scared to admit temporary defeat).
I think that's a fairly simple mischaracterisation of my view. I think it would be astonishing if there were not issues when leaving an organisation like the EU. We were part of this for 47 years. And I think fishing has undoubtedly been at the sharper end.
That doesn't mean I don't think that the problems are being magnified, and potentially even worsened by the Scottish Government pursuing an anti-Brexit agenda and using its appointees to do the same. They were given signicant funds to prepare for Brexit, and even clawed back some of the Covid-19 funds they received to deal with Brexit. It's hard to see what they've done with that money, apart from push videos wailing about it on Twitter. Which I suppose is what you get when you elect a campaign group rather than a Government.
I would be interested to understand what they could have done.
They could have warned about CHEDs and warned the fishermen to get this sorted as it would be needed. They didn't, so it seems they didn't see it coming either.
But CHEDs may not have been necessary - remember we didn't know what the deal covered until December 24th
The advice was to prepare for WTO. That means prepare for everything, if it isn't needed then so be it you can cancel that preparation. Are CHEDs needed for WTO? If so, they should have been prepared for.
I always thought things like this would end up overlooked in the real world, hence Iwhy I expected disruption in January. C'est la vie.
If they needed to be prepared for, why did our own government not bother? Their Border Operating Model guidance is strangely quiet on the fact that bribing bored French customs agents would be required.
I would expect it got overlooked.
I expected something would, it is why I always expected disruption in January. There was always going to be something overlooked. Its natural.
LOL.
Fishing overlooked. Fishing. The most totemic element of Brexit and, if you read some of the coverage, perhaps the only reason we brexited in the first place.
"A regional breakdown of England's vaccines rollout shows the Midlands leading the way in the number of jabs administered, while London has the lowest vaccination rate."
Midlands has surely got an older population than London? Can think of lots of people who retired to Staffordshire from the Smoke (sell that mid-size that needs a bit of work for a huge sum, live like a king in a gorgeous house in Lichfield for the rest of your life.)
Lichfield though
It's a long tradition on PB of people who hate London, have never lived in London, have no wish to live in London, telling Londoners how much money/space they could 'gain' by living in Not London.
What they don't seem to grasp is that many of us love London, don't want to leave London and have no desire whatsoever to live in Lichfield.
I like both of them. And it's only an hour by train.
I`ve nothing against Lichfield - I was just been cheeky to the teacher.
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Hint it's not the buyer - although they also have costs as we discussed yesterday.
All this paperwork is a cost our exporters need to pay.
And that is before you remember that even after paying these export costs the people importing have an incentive to see if someone local can provide the goods instead.
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
And the problem the Brexiters will now face is that every time a company has bad news to announce or a problem in export trade arises Brexit will be cited as a cause. Brexit will be the whipping boy for all sorts of problems including many that are completely unrelated. Lorry queues at Dover? Brexit. Delays in the arrival of parcels? Brexit. Scottish fishing industry going down the tubes? Brexit. Mozarella out of stock at Tescos? Brexit.
Brexit will take over from EU regulation as a convenient all-purpose excuse for just about anything that you want to explain away.
"A regional breakdown of England's vaccines rollout shows the Midlands leading the way in the number of jabs administered, while London has the lowest vaccination rate."
Midlands has surely got an older population than London? Can think of lots of people who retired to Staffordshire from the Smoke (sell that mid-size that needs a bit of work for a huge sum, live like a king in a gorgeous house in Lichfield for the rest of your life.)
Lichfield though
It's a long tradition on PB of people who hate London, have never lived in London, have no wish to live in London, telling Londoners how much money/space they could 'gain' by living in Not London.
What they don't seem to grasp is that many of us love London, don't want to leave London and have no desire whatsoever to live in Lichfield.
As towns on the vague outskirts of Brum go, Lichfield is a solid choice. Proper old town, decent pubs, countryside on your doorstep.
3.8m jabs next week, sounds like we're finally kicking this into top gear.
Good.
That's the rate we need to be going at. When people were being sceptical about 2m a week I thought it would have to be just a staging post to getting towards even higher figures.
The early data out of Israel looks promising that this is working there in reducing the load and so we should soon start seeing a real impact in this country too.
If it true they get all care home residents done in the next few days, that will also be a huge win.
Absolutely. Spot on.
Vallance had a staggering stat to share on Peston last night - you only need to vaccinate 20 care home residents to save one life.
You need to vaccinate 50,000 under-50s to save one life.
Quite the stat.
It is, but I think there might be more to it. Vax 50k under-50s to save one of their lives, yes. But doing this also (probably) stops them - the 50k - infecting X number of other people and some of those X are thus saved too. As are some of the Y who would have been infected by the X. Etc. Is this not how it goes with our insidious friend Covid?
Sure, of course, and that's right. Unless you vaccinate all of the vulnerable groups first –which is of course what we are trying to do. I just thought it was a great stat that put the risk profile in sharp relief.
A cost-benefit analysis based on treatments per effect (benefit vs adverse side effect) is the best measure to use. Although in this case perhaps a better measure than lives saved might be years of life saved.
Is saving a 90-year-old with 3 months life expectancy really the same as saving a 25 year-old with a young family and 60 years life expectancy?
Probably not, but unless the 25-year-old has a severe comorbidity she is at a vanishingly low risk from the virus. Many more activities she undertakes in her daily life carry more threat.
The probability is built into the metric before comparison - expected life years saved = expected years saved x probability of life saved. The expected life years saved component already builds in death expectancy from other causes.
Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".
As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.
I think that's fair comment. I am on record on here as saying (as a longstanding Remainer) that the vaccine rollout is a benefit of being outside the EU.
I also think it makes my point that endlessly asking about the vaccine numbers, and not accepting any excuses, is exactly what we should be doing. The government should be kept under constant pressure. The focus should be entirely on that.
Anyone know what the rules are about going for a short ride in car (within 5 miles) (not getting out of car at any point). No risk obviously, but common sense seems out of fashion.
Daughter upset because her driving lessons have stopped and wants to go out with me with L plates on in a nearby industrial estate for a practice. I don`t want to get nicked.
Chuck a load of hay over your boot, tell the rozzers you're on the way to tend to your horse.
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Indeed. So as we're now seeing real world examples where the product cost increases by a good 40% when selling into the EU, vs 0% by competitors in the EU, the solution is for the business who has built up that trade to go sell products to someone else.
Or more realistically, go bust.
There's going to be some disruption yes.
I don't believe for one second the product cost is going up by 40% though. If we're talking £400 for a shipment (with that cost being due to the spike in demand it not normally costing that much) then are you claiming the shipment is only worth £1000 total? I don't believe you that the total cost of an entire shipment is a meagre £1000.
Anyone know what the rules are about going for a short ride in car (within 5 miles) (not getting out of car at any point). No risk obviously, but common sense seems out of fashion.
Daughter upset because her driving lessons have stopped and wants to go out with me with L plates on in a nearby industrial estate for a practice. I don`t want to get nicked.
"A regional breakdown of England's vaccines rollout shows the Midlands leading the way in the number of jabs administered, while London has the lowest vaccination rate."
Midlands has surely got an older population than London? Can think of lots of people who retired to Staffordshire from the Smoke (sell that mid-size that needs a bit of work for a huge sum, live like a king in a gorgeous house in Lichfield for the rest of your life.)
Lichfield though
It's a long tradition on PB of people who hate London, have never lived in London, have no wish to live in London, telling Londoners how much money/space they could 'gain' by living in Not London.
What they don't seem to grasp is that many of us love London, don't want to leave London and have no desire whatsoever to live in Lichfield.
As towns on the vague outskirts of Brum go, Lichfield is a solid choice. Proper old town, decent pubs, countryside on your doorstep.
“My world does not end with these four walls. Slough’s a big place. When I’ve finished with Slough, there’s Redditch, Alvechurch, Rubery. Hednesford. You know. West Bromwich. Tamworth. Because I am my own boss. Solihull.”
Anyone know what the rules are about going for a short ride in car (within 5 miles) (not getting out of car at any point). No risk obviously, but common sense seems out of fashion.
Daughter upset because her driving lessons have stopped and wants to go out with me with L plates on in a nearby industrial estate for a practice. I don`t want to get nicked.
I assume it comes under a non essential journey
Our Asda delivery man today said that Asda has become much quieter with a greatly increase police presence everywhere
I am sure that is true but as we are not going out I cannot verify it
Just a thought - it is becoming transparently obvious that Brexit is proving (so far) to be pretty bad for fisherfolk of this country (UK).
There are many examples you have been given from industry bodies to The Daily Jingo Express.
So I think it's fair to say, for UK fishing, for now, it's a shitshow.
I don't see the big problem in accepting this. Omelettes and eggs spring to mind and fishermen? Who the hell cares, right?
It's the fact that you continue to see no ships when the whole Spanish and French navies are lined up against you that is undermining your medium term Brexit a triumph narrative (and don't forget how Trafalgar turned out so don't be scared to admit temporary defeat).
I think that's a fairly simple mischaracterisation of my view. I think it would be astonishing if there were not issues when leaving an organisation like the EU. We were part of this for 47 years. And I think fishing has undoubtedly been at the sharper end.
That doesn't mean I don't think that the problems are being magnified, and potentially even worsened by the Scottish Government pursuing an anti-Brexit agenda and using its appointees to do the same. They were given signicant funds to prepare for Brexit, and even clawed back some of the Covid-19 funds they received to deal with Brexit. It's hard to see what they've done with that money, apart from push videos wailing about it on Twitter. Which I suppose is what you get when you elect a campaign group rather than a Government.
I would be interested to understand what they could have done.
They could have warned about CHEDs and warned the fishermen to get this sorted as it would be needed. They didn't, so it seems they didn't see it coming either.
But CHEDs may not have been necessary - remember we didn't know what the deal covered until December 24th
The advice was to prepare for WTO. That means prepare for everything, if it isn't needed then so be it you can cancel that preparation. Are CHEDs needed for WTO? If so, they should have been prepared for.
I always thought things like this would end up overlooked in the real world, hence Iwhy I expected disruption in January. C'est la vie.
Would love to see how you walk out the door on a fine summer's day. Galoshes and souwester at the ready.
This may surprise you but I keep a raincoat on a hook by the front door even during the summer. I don't take it if I don't need it but if its raining, I take the coat, I don't think "nobody warned me it might be raining during the summer, now I need to source a coat" - I already have one ready in case its needed.
I'm guessing you'd also take it if it was dry at point of departure but the clouds were dark and heavy with moisture.
"A regional breakdown of England's vaccines rollout shows the Midlands leading the way in the number of jabs administered, while London has the lowest vaccination rate."
Midlands has surely got an older population than London? Can think of lots of people who retired to Staffordshire from the Smoke (sell that mid-size that needs a bit of work for a huge sum, live like a king in a gorgeous house in Lichfield for the rest of your life.)
Lichfield though
It's a long tradition on PB of people who hate London, have never lived in London, have no wish to live in London, telling Londoners how much money/space they could 'gain' by living in Not London.
What they don't seem to grasp is that many of us love London, don't want to leave London and have no desire whatsoever to live in Lichfield.
I like both of them. And it's only an hour by train.
I`ve nothing against Lichfield - I was just been cheeky to the teacher.
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Hint it's not the buyer - although they also have costs as we discussed yesterday.
All this paperwork is a cost our exporters need to pay.
And that is before you remember that even after paying these export costs the people importing have an incentive to see if someone local can provide the goods instead.
Yes it is. So pay it and move on. That is part of the cost of what we have done.
"A regional breakdown of England's vaccines rollout shows the Midlands leading the way in the number of jabs administered, while London has the lowest vaccination rate."
Midlands has surely got an older population than London? Can think of lots of people who retired to Staffordshire from the Smoke (sell that mid-size that needs a bit of work for a huge sum, live like a king in a gorgeous house in Lichfield for the rest of your life.)
Lichfield though
It's a long tradition on PB of people who hate London, have never lived in London, have no wish to live in London, telling Londoners how much money/space they could 'gain' by living in Not London.
What they don't seem to grasp is that many of us love London, don't want to leave London and have no desire whatsoever to live in Lichfield.
As towns on the vague outskirts of Brum go, Lichfield is a solid choice. Proper old town, decent pubs, countryside on your doorstep.
Now, Tamworth? Redditch?
Loads of people live in Lichfield and commute to London every day from there, so this attempt to construct a raging division between places like Lichfield and London is slightly ridiculous.
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Indeed. So as we're now seeing real world examples where the product cost increases by a good 40% when selling into the EU, vs 0% by competitors in the EU, the solution is for the business who has built up that trade to go sell products to someone else.
Or more realistically, go bust.
There's going to be some disruption yes.
I don't believe for one second the product cost is going up by 40% though. If we're talking £400 for a shipment (with that cost being due to the spike in demand it not normally costing that much) then are you claiming the shipment is only worth £1000 total? I don't believe you that the total cost of an entire shipment is a meagre £1000.
It could be - if say you have £1000 of fish type x in a load and another £1000 of fish type y in the load.
Every different product will require different paperwork or at least a different form.
Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.
I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
Have you read the article? 1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories 2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on” 3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation." 4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"
Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"
So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.
Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.
These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.
You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).
What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.
Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
Given that they are presenting evidence with figures to go along their statements why isn't it gospel?
RT frequently provide figures to back up their stories, but you don't treat anything printed there as gospel, you treat it as propaganda from the mouthpiece of Putin. We take the figures and evidence that says what you want it to say.
By the way, I'm not denying that transitioning from the EU to no EU has caused kinks for exporters, and that these kinks are not particularly difficult for exporters of freshly caught fish. There are valid questions to be asked to both the UK and Scottish Governments about why preparations were not better, given that an exit from the single market and customs union was baked in regardless of the deal or no deal outcomes. However, we are not asking those tough questions when it all becomes an agenda-driven rant about Brexit.
Why couldn't they prepare for something that doesn't work? Perhaps they should have paid more attention to the official UK government Border Operating Plan manual. Which says virtually nothing about the processes on the EU side of the border which sinks our exports.
That these EU process for 3rd countries have been in place for a long time, and that the UK government explicitly insisted that we become a 3rd country makes it clear the blame is on the Scottish government and their allegedly paid lackeys.
It just 'doesn't work' eh - odd then how the EU manages to be a net importer of fish (from outside the EU for avoidance of doubt), importing around 26 billion euros worth a year: https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/5-external-trade_en
Strange how the impenetrable European single market that we clearly never should have left doesn't seem to trouble fishermen in Vietnam, India or America. They just seem to manage.
Are you saying that the EU imports fresh fish from Vietnam?
Not sure what that particular nugget has to do with anything. Fresh fish are imported from outside the single market and customs union - this is covered in the introduction: The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled. Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are the leading importing Member States.
Just a thought - it is becoming transparently obvious that Brexit is proving (so far) to be pretty bad for fisherfolk of this country (UK).
There are many examples you have been given from industry bodies to The Daily Jingo Express.
So I think it's fair to say, for UK fishing, for now, it's a shitshow.
I don't see the big problem in accepting this. Omelettes and eggs spring to mind and fishermen? Who the hell cares, right?
It's the fact that you continue to see no ships when the whole Spanish and French navies are lined up against you that is undermining your medium term Brexit a triumph narrative (and don't forget how Trafalgar turned out so don't be scared to admit temporary defeat).
I think that's a fairly simple mischaracterisation of my view. I think it would be astonishing if there were not issues when leaving an organisation like the EU. We were part of this for 47 years. And I think fishing has undoubtedly been at the sharper end.
That doesn't mean I don't think that the problems are being magnified, and potentially even worsened by the Scottish Government pursuing an anti-Brexit agenda and using its appointees to do the same. They were given signicant funds to prepare for Brexit, and even clawed back some of the Covid-19 funds they received to deal with Brexit. It's hard to see what they've done with that money, apart from push videos wailing about it on Twitter. Which I suppose is what you get when you elect a campaign group rather than a Government.
I would be interested to understand what they could have done.
Quote from the story: Checks in Scotland are performed by Scottish Government agencies, and Jimmy Buchan of the Scottish Seafood Association said that a check that should take no more than one hour “is taking nearly five hours.”
He added: “The problem is definitely in Scotland, at the hubs prior to dispatch. It’s the one thing that we have continuously asked Government, are they ready? They kept asking us, were we ready? And we are ready, but it appears that Government are not.”
At the very unsophisticated end of things, employ more staff to speed the checking process initially?
The checks have to be done by qualified vets. Any ideas where to find qualified vets at zero notice?
Why is it zero notice? They knew that this was coming years ago. They were told to prepare for WTO terms months ago. Why are they only now dealing with it.
Explains why the bulk of the complains are coming from Scottish fishermen.
ISTR reading last year that very few British vets were interested in doing this sort of work, and so those doing it were predominantly from the EU, lots of whom have now left because they don't feel welcome in the UK anymore.
And I do hope that recognition of their EU qualifications got grandfathered in too.
Requiring a vet to do the check seems a case of requiring overqualification. What are the task competences to do the job effectively? Can a vet tech or a lab tech do that task, or receive additional targeted training to ensure full competence for the task? Seems a more sensible route than just insisting a vet must do the job, particularly if vets don't want to do it.
Well, the question is who created that requirement? The EU, in which case the UK will just have to suck it up like anyone else wanting to export fresh seafood into the SM, or the UK, gold-plating someone else's regulations. Which of course never, ever, ever happened before.
"A regional breakdown of England's vaccines rollout shows the Midlands leading the way in the number of jabs administered, while London has the lowest vaccination rate."
Midlands has surely got an older population than London? Can think of lots of people who retired to Staffordshire from the Smoke (sell that mid-size that needs a bit of work for a huge sum, live like a king in a gorgeous house in Lichfield for the rest of your life.)
Lichfield though
It's a long tradition on PB of people who hate London, have never lived in London, have no wish to live in London, telling Londoners how much money/space they could 'gain' by living in Not London.
What they don't seem to grasp is that many of us love London, don't want to leave London and have no desire whatsoever to live in Lichfield.
I like both of them. And it's only an hour by train.
I love London and am sure the millions who live there do so as well
Anyone know what the rules are about going for a short ride in car (within 5 miles) (not getting out of car at any point). No risk obviously, but common sense seems out of fashion.
Daughter upset because her driving lessons have stopped and wants to go out with me with L plates on in a nearby industrial estate for a practice. I don`t want to get nicked.
I can't imagine you'd be breaking any law.
If that's illegal, the rules are even stupider than I thought!
Sweden with a Mega update taking their total deaths over 10,000 and now 4 days of 100 deaths or more in their second wave.
And as far as I can see their testing number are plummeting.
However their "in ICU" figures have started coming down consistently as of a week ago so they are probably past the worst of it. Jut their super slow updates means it's going to look worse even as it is better.
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Indeed. So as we're now seeing real world examples where the product cost increases by a good 40% when selling into the EU, vs 0% by competitors in the EU, the solution is for the business who has built up that trade to go sell products to someone else.
Or more realistically, go bust.
There's going to be some disruption yes.
I don't believe for one second the product cost is going up by 40% though. If we're talking £400 for a shipment (with that cost being due to the spike in demand it not normally costing that much) then are you claiming the shipment is only worth £1000 total? I don't believe you that the total cost of an entire shipment is a meagre £1000.
It could be - if say you have £1000 of fish type x in a load and another £1000 of fish type y in the load.
Every different product will require different paperwork or at least a different form.
Doesn't the agent deal with the forms? Not a different agent per form?
I don't believe for a second £1000 is the total value of the shipment. The reports in the news are people saying their shipments, worth hundreds of thousands or millions, are caught up in this.
If the shipment is worth >£100,000 then the CHED is a <0.4% cost not a 40% cost.
Anyone know what the rules are about going for a short ride in car (within 5 miles) (not getting out of car at any point). No risk obviously, but common sense seems out of fashion.
Daughter upset because her driving lessons have stopped and wants to go out with me with L plates on in a nearby industrial estate for a practice. I don`t want to get nicked.
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Hint it's not the buyer - although they also have costs as we discussed yesterday.
All this paperwork is a cost our exporters need to pay.
And that is before you remember that even after paying these export costs the people importing have an incentive to see if someone local can provide the goods instead.
Yes it is. So pay it and move on. That is part of the cost of what we have done.
I think you are going to be surprised and shocked as to how much this is going to destroy whole sectors of our economy
Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".
As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.
Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
My wife is doing a 4 hour shift at a vaccination centre this afternoon. I have asked her to count how many she does in that time period
That would be useful information to know.
If spread betting, I'd go for just under 500
At my mother's (her again!) local hospital vaccine centre they were doing 350 a day a fortnight ago and were expecting to ramp up the following week (1st week of Jan) to 500.
This was with immediate registration on entrance, waiting 1 min, then 3 min assessment filling in the forms online with one doctor (nurse? not sure), 1 min waiting, 2 mins with the doctor (they had several rooms each with a doctor in) who assessed her in person and administered the jab, and waiting the 15 minutes marshalled by one orderly.
While we were there (22 mins! ) there was minimal waiting and there were about 5-10 people at any one time in the 15 minute waiting area.
Let someone on PB disaggregate that and work out likely vaccination rates.
Edit: they seemed very not busy but it could easily have been very good planning for throughput.
It looks like it varies according to vaccine then.
Local football stadium.
Today: straight in the door (just turn up on or near appointment time). Three desks. Who are you (computer form), here's your card, here's your AZN jab, next. Rate limited by speed of vaccination and form filling. 5 minutes in and out.
Last week: Who are you, here's your card and sticker with your exit time, here's your Pfizer jab, sit over there until your exit time, next. Rate limited by number of chairs (30-35). 20 minutes in and out.
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Hint it's not the buyer - although they also have costs as we discussed yesterday.
All this paperwork is a cost our exporters need to pay.
And that is before you remember that even after paying these export costs the people importing have an incentive to see if someone local can provide the goods instead.
Yes it is. So pay it and move on. That is part of the cost of what we have done.
I think you are going to be surprised and shocked as to how much this is going to destroy whole sectors of our economy
Yes I will be surprised if that happens. Sectors of the economy already have to deal with friction.
Fluctuations of the exchange rate can add more than 0.4% to the cost of something.
Sweden with a Mega update taking their total deaths over 10,000 and now 4 days of 100 deaths or more in their second wave.
And as far as I can see their testing number are plummeting.
However their "in ICU" figures have started coming down consistently as of a week ago so they are probably past the worst of it. Jut their super slow updates means it's going to look worse even as it is better.
They are up to 1,005 deaths/million (Norway 94, Finland 111, Denmark 286).
"A regional breakdown of England's vaccines rollout shows the Midlands leading the way in the number of jabs administered, while London has the lowest vaccination rate."
Midlands has surely got an older population than London? Can think of lots of people who retired to Staffordshire from the Smoke (sell that mid-size that needs a bit of work for a huge sum, live like a king in a gorgeous house in Lichfield for the rest of your life.)
Lichfield though
It's a long tradition on PB of people who hate London, have never lived in London, have no wish to live in London, telling Londoners how much money/space they could 'gain' by living in Not London.
What they don't seem to grasp is that many of us love London, don't want to leave London and have no desire whatsoever to live in Lichfield.
I like both of them. And it's only an hour by train.
I love London and am sure the millions who live there do so as well
Only 50 mins by train for me. I happily wander around going from cafe to cafe. Sometimes it can get a bit OCD - with me vetting possible cafes before committing myself. Key features are proper espresso machine (obvs) and comfy chair (sofa ideally) to sit and people-watch. Easter maybe?
Anyone know what the rules are about going for a short ride in car (within 5 miles) (not getting out of car at any point). No risk obviously, but common sense seems out of fashion.
Daughter upset because her driving lessons have stopped and wants to go out with me with L plates on in a nearby industrial estate for a practice. I don`t want to get nicked.
I can't imagine you'd be breaking any law.
If that's illegal, the rules are even stupider than I thought!
Yes, I understand that Marcus had a word with Johnson today. Told him the score.
Something like 6-0, isn't it?
Ha. Indeed. But I suppose a PM with a landslide majority could never be a match for a young footballer when it comes to formulating policies to tackle child poverty. I'm sure it would be much closer if it was football.
Just a thought - it is becoming transparently obvious that Brexit is proving (so far) to be pretty bad for fisherfolk of this country (UK).
There are many examples you have been given from industry bodies to The Daily Jingo Express.
So I think it's fair to say, for UK fishing, for now, it's a shitshow.
I don't see the big problem in accepting this. Omelettes and eggs spring to mind and fishermen? Who the hell cares, right?
It's the fact that you continue to see no ships when the whole Spanish and French navies are lined up against you that is undermining your medium term Brexit a triumph narrative (and don't forget how Trafalgar turned out so don't be scared to admit temporary defeat).
I think that's a fairly simple mischaracterisation of my view. I think it would be astonishing if there were not issues when leaving an organisation like the EU. We were part of this for 47 years. And I think fishing has undoubtedly been at the sharper end.
That doesn't mean I don't think that the problems are being magnified, and potentially even worsened by the Scottish Government pursuing an anti-Brexit agenda and using its appointees to do the same. They were given signicant funds to prepare for Brexit, and even clawed back some of the Covid-19 funds they received to deal with Brexit. It's hard to see what they've done with that money, apart from push videos wailing about it on Twitter. Which I suppose is what you get when you elect a campaign group rather than a Government.
I would be interested to understand what they could have done.
Quote from the story: Checks in Scotland are performed by Scottish Government agencies, and Jimmy Buchan of the Scottish Seafood Association said that a check that should take no more than one hour “is taking nearly five hours.”
He added: “The problem is definitely in Scotland, at the hubs prior to dispatch. It’s the one thing that we have continuously asked Government, are they ready? They kept asking us, were we ready? And we are ready, but it appears that Government are not.”
At the very unsophisticated end of things, employ more staff to speed the checking process initially?
The checks have to be done by qualified vets. Any ideas where to find qualified vets at zero notice?
Why is it zero notice? They knew that this was coming years ago. They were told to prepare for WTO terms months ago. Why are they only now dealing with it.
Explains why the bulk of the complains are coming from Scottish fishermen.
ISTR reading last year that very few British vets were interested in doing this sort of work, and so those doing it were predominantly from the EU, lots of whom have now left because they don't feel welcome in the UK anymore.
And I do hope that recognition of their EU qualifications got grandfathered in too.
Requiring a vet to do the check seems a case of requiring overqualification. What are the task competences to do the job effectively? Can a vet tech or a lab tech do that task, or receive additional targeted training to ensure full competence for the task? Seems a more sensible route than just insisting a vet must do the job, particularly if vets don't want to do it.
Well, the question is who created that requirement? The EU, in which case the UK will just have to suck it up like anyone else wanting to export fresh seafood into the SM, or the UK, gold-plating someone else's regulations. Which of course never, ever, ever happened before.
Just a thought - it is becoming transparently obvious that Brexit is proving (so far) to be pretty bad for fisherfolk of this country (UK).
There are many examples you have been given from industry bodies to The Daily Jingo Express.
So I think it's fair to say, for UK fishing, for now, it's a shitshow.
I don't see the big problem in accepting this. Omelettes and eggs spring to mind and fishermen? Who the hell cares, right?
It's the fact that you continue to see no ships when the whole Spanish and French navies are lined up against you that is undermining your medium term Brexit a triumph narrative (and don't forget how Trafalgar turned out so don't be scared to admit temporary defeat).
I think that's a fairly simple mischaracterisation of my view. I think it would be astonishing if there were not issues when leaving an organisation like the EU. We were part of this for 47 years. And I think fishing has undoubtedly been at the sharper end.
That doesn't mean I don't think that the problems are being magnified, and potentially even worsened by the Scottish Government pursuing an anti-Brexit agenda and using its appointees to do the same. They were given signicant funds to prepare for Brexit, and even clawed back some of the Covid-19 funds they received to deal with Brexit. It's hard to see what they've done with that money, apart from push videos wailing about it on Twitter. Which I suppose is what you get when you elect a campaign group rather than a Government.
I would be interested to understand what they could have done.
Quote from the story: Checks in Scotland are performed by Scottish Government agencies, and Jimmy Buchan of the Scottish Seafood Association said that a check that should take no more than one hour “is taking nearly five hours.”
He added: “The problem is definitely in Scotland, at the hubs prior to dispatch. It’s the one thing that we have continuously asked Government, are they ready? They kept asking us, were we ready? And we are ready, but it appears that Government are not.”
At the very unsophisticated end of things, employ more staff to speed the checking process initially?
The checks have to be done by qualified vets. Any ideas where to find qualified vets at zero notice?
Why is it zero notice? They knew that this was coming years ago. They were told to prepare for WTO terms months ago. Why are they only now dealing with it.
Explains why the bulk of the complains are coming from Scottish fishermen.
ISTR reading last year that very few British vets were interested in doing this sort of work, and so those doing it were predominantly from the EU, lots of whom have now left because they don't feel welcome in the UK anymore.
And I do hope that recognition of their EU qualifications got grandfathered in too.
Requiring a vet to do the check seems a case of requiring overqualification. What are the task competences to do the job effectively? Can a vet tech or a lab tech do that task, or receive additional targeted training to ensure full competence for the task? Seems a more sensible route than just insisting a vet must do the job, particularly if vets don't want to do it.
Well, the question is who created that requirement? The EU, in which case the UK will just have to suck it up like anyone else wanting to export fresh seafood into the SM, or the UK, gold-plating someone else's regulations. Which of course never, ever, ever happened before.
If the former, discuss alternatives with the EU that meet there quality and efficacy needs. If the latter, what has that got to do with the price of fish?
Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.
I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
Have you read the article? 1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories 2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on” 3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation." 4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"
Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"
So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.
Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.
These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.
You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).
What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.
Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
Given that they are presenting evidence with figures to go along their statements why isn't it gospel?
RT frequently provide figures to back up their stories, but you don't treat anything printed there as gospel, you treat it as propaganda from the mouthpiece of Putin. We take the figures and evidence that says what you want it to say.
By the way, I'm not denying that transitioning from the EU to no EU has caused kinks for exporters, and that these kinks are not particularly difficult for exporters of freshly caught fish. There are valid questions to be asked to both the UK and Scottish Governments about why preparations were not better, given that an exit from the single market and customs union was baked in regardless of the deal or no deal outcomes. However, we are not asking those tough questions when it all becomes an agenda-driven rant about Brexit.
Why couldn't they prepare for something that doesn't work? Perhaps they should have paid more attention to the official UK government Border Operating Plan manual. Which says virtually nothing about the processes on the EU side of the border which sinks our exports.
That these EU process for 3rd countries have been in place for a long time, and that the UK government explicitly insisted that we become a 3rd country makes it clear the blame is on the Scottish government and their allegedly paid lackeys.
It just 'doesn't work' eh - odd then how the EU manages to be a net importer of fish (from outside the EU for avoidance of doubt), importing around 26 billion euros worth a year: https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/5-external-trade_en
Strange how the impenetrable European single market that we clearly never should have left doesn't seem to trouble fishermen in Vietnam, India or America. They just seem to manage.
Are you saying that the EU imports fresh fish from Vietnam?
Not sure what that particular nugget has to do with anything. Fresh fish are imported from outside the single market and customs union - this is covered in the introduction: The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled. Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are the leading importing Member States.
May I suggest you go back to Rochdale's question and think about your answer.
Live exports have far tighter restrictions (but far higher market prices) than frozen products.
The exports you are comparing us to are both very different and far more of a bulk none premium product.
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Hint it's not the buyer - although they also have costs as we discussed yesterday.
All this paperwork is a cost our exporters need to pay.
And that is before you remember that even after paying these export costs the people importing have an incentive to see if someone local can provide the goods instead.
Yes it is. So pay it and move on. That is part of the cost of what we have done.
Another big bus I missed during the Brexit campaign - "There will be lots more paperwork - suck it up!".
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Hint it's not the buyer - although they also have costs as we discussed yesterday.
All this paperwork is a cost our exporters need to pay.
And that is before you remember that even after paying these export costs the people importing have an incentive to see if someone local can provide the goods instead.
Yes it is. So pay it and move on. That is part of the cost of what we have done.
I think you are going to be surprised and shocked as to how much this is going to destroy whole sectors of our economy
Yes I will be surprised if that happens. Sectors of the economy already have to deal with friction.
Fluctuations of the exchange rate can add more than 0.4% to the cost of something.
I would love to know what you do for a living as it clearly has given you a very sheltered life which isn't used to rapid change nor the bigger picture.
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Hint it's not the buyer - although they also have costs as we discussed yesterday.
All this paperwork is a cost our exporters need to pay.
And that is before you remember that even after paying these export costs the people importing have an incentive to see if someone local can provide the goods instead.
Yes it is. So pay it and move on. That is part of the cost of what we have done.
Another big bus I missed during the Brexit campaign - "There will be lots more paperwork - suck it up!".
Don't know how you missed it, Remainers bleated on about it loads.
But in any case, in a referendum it is the job of Remainers to provide the reasons against leaving. If they didn't put it on a bus, have a word with them for not bothering.
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Indeed. So as we're now seeing real world examples where the product cost increases by a good 40% when selling into the EU, vs 0% by competitors in the EU, the solution is for the business who has built up that trade to go sell products to someone else.
Or more realistically, go bust.
There's going to be some disruption yes.
I don't believe for one second the product cost is going up by 40% though. If we're talking £400 for a shipment (with that cost being due to the spike in demand it not normally costing that much) then are you claiming the shipment is only worth £1000 total? I don't believe you that the total cost of an entire shipment is a meagre £1000.
Didn't say all products would go up 40%, just that there have been real world examples where the cash value of the extra charges adds 40% to the bill. For smaller items the % will be much higher than 40%. Or would be if anyone was willing to buy them any more.
My wife is doing a 4 hour shift at a vaccination centre this afternoon. I have asked her to count how many she does in that time period
That would be useful information to know.
If spread betting, I'd go for just under 500
At my mother's (her again!) local hospital vaccine centre they were doing 350 a day a fortnight ago and were expecting to ramp up the following week (1st week of Jan) to 500.
This was with immediate registration on entrance, waiting 1 min, then 3 min assessment filling in the forms online with one doctor (nurse? not sure), 1 min waiting, 2 mins with the doctor (they had several rooms each with a doctor in) who assessed her in person and administered the jab, and waiting the 15 minutes marshalled by one orderly.
While we were there (22 mins! ) there was minimal waiting and there were about 5-10 people at any one time in the 15 minute waiting area.
Let someone on PB disaggregate that and work out likely vaccination rates.
Edit: they seemed very not busy but it could easily have been very good planning for throughput.
It looks like it varies according to vaccine then.
Local football stadium.
Today: straight in the door (just turn up on or near appointment time). Three desks. Who are you (computer form), here's your card, here's your AZN jab, next. Rate limited by speed of vaccination and form filling. 5 minutes in and out.
Last week: Who are you, here's your card and sticker with your exit time, here's your Pfizer jab, sit over there until your exit time, next. Rate limited by number of chairs (30-35). 20 minutes in and out.
One thing's for sure - you describe the experience more succinctly than me.
"A regional breakdown of England's vaccines rollout shows the Midlands leading the way in the number of jabs administered, while London has the lowest vaccination rate."
Midlands has surely got an older population than London? Can think of lots of people who retired to Staffordshire from the Smoke (sell that mid-size that needs a bit of work for a huge sum, live like a king in a gorgeous house in Lichfield for the rest of your life.)
Lichfield though
It's a long tradition on PB of people who hate London, have never lived in London, have no wish to live in London, telling Londoners how much money/space they could 'gain' by living in Not London.
What they don't seem to grasp is that many of us love London, don't want to leave London and have no desire whatsoever to live in Lichfield.
I like both of them. And it's only an hour by train.
I love London and am sure the millions who live there do so as well
Only 50 mins by train for me. I happily wander around going from cafe to cafe. Sometimes it can get a bit OCD - with me vetting possible cafes before committing myself. Key features are proper espresso machine (obvs) and comfy chair (sofa ideally) to sit and people-watch. Easter maybe?
3 hours for us but far quicker than to Cardiff which is about 5 hours by train
Having lived in North Wales for 55 years I have been to Cardiff once
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Indeed. So as we're now seeing real world examples where the product cost increases by a good 40% when selling into the EU, vs 0% by competitors in the EU, the solution is for the business who has built up that trade to go sell products to someone else.
Or more realistically, go bust.
There's going to be some disruption yes.
I don't believe for one second the product cost is going up by 40% though. If we're talking £400 for a shipment (with that cost being due to the spike in demand it not normally costing that much) then are you claiming the shipment is only worth £1000 total? I don't believe you that the total cost of an entire shipment is a meagre £1000.
Didn't say all products would go up 40%, just that there have been real world examples where the cash value of the extra charges adds 40% to the bill. For smaller items the % will be much higher than 40%. Or would be if anyone was willing to buy them any more.
Got a source for a £400 agent fee being added to a £1000 container?
A £1000 margin is not a £1000 container unless there was literally 0 cost applied to it before.
Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.
I presume these are the wrong sort of fishermen so we shouldn't listen to them.
Have you read the article? 1. The "SNP hindering fishing" accusation is from the Tories 2. The fisherman quoted in the article says "“I’m questioning whether to carry on” 3. The CEO of Seafood Scotland is quoted saying "“The last 48 hours has really delivered what was expected – new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers, and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation." 4. The CEO of Scotland Food and Drink is quoted saying "“We have warned for months about the lack of preparation time for everyone involved and these problems sadly come as little surprise"
Your "wrong sort of fishermen" comment implies the article has fishing folk attacking the Scottish government. They are not. Thats the Tories. The industry is saying "we warned for months. This was expected. Is it worth carrying on"
So it's hardly surprising that the woman quoted launches into a rant about Brexit, whilst also being at pains to give a long and detailed explanation as to why checks by the Scottish agency concerned are taking so long, which absolves them of all blame.
Scotland Food and Drink is another quango funded by the Scottish Government.
These criticisms are no more valid than the opposing ones of the Scottish Tories - and in fact it's far more insidious to use quasi-independent public bodies to parrot your lines. The fact that they are doing this seems to be made quite clear by the lack of Scottish Government comment - they didn't need to.
Right. So industry bodies representing fishermen only merit the same weight in their knowledge of fishing as Tory MP.
You are Andrea Leadsom. On Newsnight. Explaining to the former head of the WTO why he is wrong about how the WTO works.
No, I'm not saying that, I am sure that the Seafood Scotland representative knows a lot about fishing (the head of Scotland Food & Drink I wouldn't be as sure of at all - his knowledge will be far less specialised, and the Tory MSP's could well be as knowledgable).
What I am saying has nothing to do with knowledge, it has to do with using their statements and their positions as 'industry representatives' to push a political agenda. You've dismissed the opinons of the Tory MSP's as political, but you think we should take the opinions of Scottish Government appointees with clear financial links to the EU as gospel.
Of course, you did know that, you just thought it was cute to appear stupid. Which it wasn't.
Given that they are presenting evidence with figures to go along their statements why isn't it gospel?
RT frequently provide figures to back up their stories, but you don't treat anything printed there as gospel, you treat it as propaganda from the mouthpiece of Putin. We take the figures and evidence that says what you want it to say.
By the way, I'm not denying that transitioning from the EU to no EU has caused kinks for exporters, and that these kinks are not particularly difficult for exporters of freshly caught fish. There are valid questions to be asked to both the UK and Scottish Governments about why preparations were not better, given that an exit from the single market and customs union was baked in regardless of the deal or no deal outcomes. However, we are not asking those tough questions when it all becomes an agenda-driven rant about Brexit.
Why couldn't they prepare for something that doesn't work? Perhaps they should have paid more attention to the official UK government Border Operating Plan manual. Which says virtually nothing about the processes on the EU side of the border which sinks our exports.
That these EU process for 3rd countries have been in place for a long time, and that the UK government explicitly insisted that we become a 3rd country makes it clear the blame is on the Scottish government and their allegedly paid lackeys.
It just 'doesn't work' eh - odd then how the EU manages to be a net importer of fish (from outside the EU for avoidance of doubt), importing around 26 billion euros worth a year: https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/5-external-trade_en
Strange how the impenetrable European single market that we clearly never should have left doesn't seem to trouble fishermen in Vietnam, India or America. They just seem to manage.
Are you saying that the EU imports fresh fish from Vietnam?
Not sure what that particular nugget has to do with anything. Fresh fish are imported from outside the single market and customs union - this is covered in the introduction: The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled. Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are the leading importing Member States.
The thing about frozen fish is that its frozen. If the refrigerated trailer it's packed in loses an extra few days queuing for customs there's no harm to the product. So its not an issue for frozen imports from Vietnam.
Fresh fish? That has to be shipped quickly. Which makes its market local. Which makes your map of the globe only to demonstrate your ignorance of the topic on which you are posting.
It is Fresh Fish that is rotting. Not frozen. "It doesn't work eh" because you can't ship fresh fish from fucking Vietnam or America or wherever. Eh. So the process doesn't work for these other countries, eh, because it doesn't.
You are like Philip. Clueless. But desperate to defend the government. So post guff.
"A regional breakdown of England's vaccines rollout shows the Midlands leading the way in the number of jabs administered, while London has the lowest vaccination rate."
Midlands has surely got an older population than London? Can think of lots of people who retired to Staffordshire from the Smoke (sell that mid-size that needs a bit of work for a huge sum, live like a king in a gorgeous house in Lichfield for the rest of your life.)
Lichfield though
It's a long tradition on PB of people who hate London, have never lived in London, have no wish to live in London, telling Londoners how much money/space they could 'gain' by living in Not London.
What they don't seem to grasp is that many of us love London, don't want to leave London and have no desire whatsoever to live in Lichfield.
But, we have all lived in London ... on Chiswick Mall.
It is Londoners who are the problem. They ruined everything with their insatiable greed & caused Brexit ...
Wenn man fragt, wer wohl sterben muss. Und dann werden Sie mich sagen hören "Alle!" Und wenn dann der Kopf fällt, sage ich"Hoppla!"
Because Brexit always was the greatest revenge fantasy of all.
Another big bus I missed during the Brexit campaign - "There will be lots more paperwork - suck it up!".
Don't know how you missed it, Remainers bleated on about it loads.
But in any case, in a referendum it is the job of Remainers to provide the reasons against leaving. If they didn't put it on a bus, have a word with them for not bothering.
Are you the same Philip Thompson who said during the referendum campaign that you personally favoured the EEA but that the type of Brexit was "a debate for the future" and advocated a second referendum on joining the EEA?
If it was up to me I'd recommend a negotiation to join the EEA as a transition to leaving with a referendum to endorse our joining the EEA (which I think would be won overwhelmingly, it'd have vast majority of today's Remain and about half of today's Leave backing it).
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Indeed. So as we're now seeing real world examples where the product cost increases by a good 40% when selling into the EU, vs 0% by competitors in the EU, the solution is for the business who has built up that trade to go sell products to someone else.
Or more realistically, go bust.
There's going to be some disruption yes.
I don't believe for one second the product cost is going up by 40% though. If we're talking £400 for a shipment (with that cost being due to the spike in demand it not normally costing that much) then are you claiming the shipment is only worth £1000 total? I don't believe you that the total cost of an entire shipment is a meagre £1000.
Didn't say all products would go up 40%, just that there have been real world examples where the cash value of the extra charges adds 40% to the bill. For smaller items the % will be much higher than 40%. Or would be if anyone was willing to buy them any more.
Got a source for a £400 agent fee being added to a £1000 container?
A £1000 margin is not a £1000 container unless there was literally 0 cost applied to it before.
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Indeed. So as we're now seeing real world examples where the product cost increases by a good 40% when selling into the EU, vs 0% by competitors in the EU, the solution is for the business who has built up that trade to go sell products to someone else.
Or more realistically, go bust.
There's going to be some disruption yes.
I don't believe for one second the product cost is going up by 40% though. If we're talking £400 for a shipment (with that cost being due to the spike in demand it not normally costing that much) then are you claiming the shipment is only worth £1000 total? I don't believe you that the total cost of an entire shipment is a meagre £1000.
Didn't say all products would go up 40%, just that there have been real world examples where the cash value of the extra charges adds 40% to the bill. For smaller items the % will be much higher than 40%. Or would be if anyone was willing to buy them any more.
Got a source for a £400 agent fee being added to a £1000 container?
A £1000 margin is not a £1000 container unless there was literally 0 cost applied to it before.
Nope it's a £10,000 container which costs £9000 to catch and transport.
If you want a 40% example - there was one earlier this week where booksellers european customers were discovering the impact of no longer being able to purchase books from the UK where VAT is explicitly excluded.
Now all book sales are subject to the VAT of the customers country and there was a €15 DHL handling fee on top. And I think the original purchase was a £20 book
Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".
As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.
Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
Portugal is really bad too. Similar soaring rate to Ireland, so maybe Kentish Covid is doing its thing there, too. Total lockdown for 2 months from tomorrow.
Dental question for Pb-ers. My teeth are in a right old state. Haven’t been cleaned for a year. Just forgot, when I had a chance in the summer.
If I leave it much longer I’ll get gum problems. And dentists are open so I could get an appointment. Worth the risk?
"A regional breakdown of England's vaccines rollout shows the Midlands leading the way in the number of jabs administered, while London has the lowest vaccination rate."
Midlands has surely got an older population than London? Can think of lots of people who retired to Staffordshire from the Smoke (sell that mid-size that needs a bit of work for a huge sum, live like a king in a gorgeous house in Lichfield for the rest of your life.)
Lichfield though
It's a long tradition on PB of people who hate London, have never lived in London, have no wish to live in London, telling Londoners how much money/space they could 'gain' by living in Not London.
What they don't seem to grasp is that many of us love London, don't want to leave London and have no desire whatsoever to live in Lichfield.
I like both of them. And it's only an hour by train.
I love London and am sure the millions who live there do so as well
Only 50 mins by train for me. I happily wander around going from cafe to cafe. Sometimes it can get a bit OCD - with me vetting possible cafes before committing myself. Key features are proper espresso machine (obvs) and comfy chair (sofa ideally) to sit and people-watch. Easter maybe?
3 hours for us but far quicker than to Cardiff which is about 5 hours by train
Having lived in North Wales for 55 years I have been to Cardiff once
To be fair Cardiff isn't easy to get to from North Wales. Even the Welsh Government gravy Train has to travel via England.
Yes, I understand that Marcus had a word with Johnson today. Told him the score.
Something like 6-0, isn't it?
Ha. Indeed. But I suppose a PM with a landslide majority could never be a match for a young footballer when it comes to formulating policies to tackle child poverty. I'm sure it would be much closer if it was football.
The most amazing thing is that anyone is in the least bit surprised that our fishing and seafood industry is being absolutely pole-axed by Brexit. That was just about the most obvious of all the obvious consequences of Brexit, once it became clear that for reasons of pure ideology we weren't going to do what was necessary to retain EU sanitary and phytosanitary approval. It's pretty bad for our other food exports, but for a product which absolutely has to be delivered spanking fresh it is disastrous.
No doubt things will improve a little once the government gets round to writing and testing some computer systems and telling people what the rules are (rules which we've known about for decades, since we helped write them and have long been enforcing for third-country imports ourselves), but there will still be a massive medium-term hit.
This was of course very widely warned about. But the half-wit government we've landed ourselves with simply ignored the issue.
Another big bus I missed during the Brexit campaign - "There will be lots more paperwork - suck it up!".
Don't know how you missed it, Remainers bleated on about it loads.
But in any case, in a referendum it is the job of Remainers to provide the reasons against leaving. If they didn't put it on a bus, have a word with them for not bothering.
Are you the same Philip Thompson who said during the referendum campaign that you personally favoured the EEA but that the type of Brexit was "a debate for the future" and advocated a second referendum on joining the EEA?
Yes that is in March 2016 that is me. My views changed in 2016 from Remain, to EEA to fully out as the campaign progressed based on the arguments of the campaign.
The referendum wasn't in March it was in June 2016 and by June EEA had been ruled out by Boris and Gove etc
Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".
As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.
Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
Portugal is really bad too. Similar soaring rate to Ireland, so maybe Kentish Covid is doing its thing there, too. Total lockdown for 2 months from tomorrow.
Dental question for Pb-ers. My teeth are in a right old state. Haven’t been cleaned for a year. Just forgot, when I had a chance in the summer.
If I leave it much longer I’ll get gum problems. And dentists are open so I could get an appointment. Worth the risk?
Another big bus I missed during the Brexit campaign - "There will be lots more paperwork - suck it up!".
Don't know how you missed it, Remainers bleated on about it loads.
But in any case, in a referendum it is the job of Remainers to provide the reasons against leaving. If they didn't put it on a bus, have a word with them for not bothering.
Are you the same Philip Thompson who said during the referendum campaign that you personally favoured the EEA but that the type of Brexit was "a debate for the future" and advocated a second referendum on joining the EEA?
Yes that is in March 2016 that is me. My views changed in 2016 from Remain, to EEA to fully out as the campaign progressed based on the arguments of the campaign.
The referendum wasn't in March it was in June 2016 and by June EEA had been ruled out by Boris and Gove etc
The most amazing thing is that anyone is in the least bit surprised that our fishing and seafood industry is being absolutely pole-axed by Brexit. That was just about the most obvious of all the obvious consequences of Brexit, once it became clear that for reasons of pure ideology we weren't going to do what was necessary to retain EU sanitary and phytosanitary approval. It's pretty bad for our other food exports, but for a product which absolutely has to be delivered spanking fresh it is disastrous.
No doubt things will improve a little once the government gets round to writing and testing some computer systems and telling people what the rules are (rules which we've known about for decades, since we helped write them and have long been enforcing for third-country imports ourselves), but there will still be a massive medium-term hit.
This was of course very widely warned about. But the half-wit government we've landed ourselves with simply ignored the issue.
For farmers it's not so bad - while we used to sell fresh lamb they can keep things as they were but just sell mutton instead.
Just a thought - it is becoming transparently obvious that Brexit is proving (so far) to be pretty bad for fisherfolk of this country (UK).
There are many examples you have been given from industry bodies to The Daily Jingo Express.
So I think it's fair to say, for UK fishing, for now, it's a shitshow.
I don't see the big problem in accepting this. Omelettes and eggs spring to mind and fishermen? Who the hell cares, right?
It's the fact that you continue to see no ships when the whole Spanish and French navies are lined up against you that is undermining your medium term Brexit a triumph narrative (and don't forget how Trafalgar turned out so don't be scared to admit temporary defeat).
I think that's a fairly simple mischaracterisation of my view. I think it would be astonishing if there were not issues when leaving an organisation like the EU. We were part of this for 47 years. And I think fishing has undoubtedly been at the sharper end.
That doesn't mean I don't think that the problems are being magnified, and potentially even worsened by the Scottish Government pursuing an anti-Brexit agenda and using its appointees to do the same. They were given signicant funds to prepare for Brexit, and even clawed back some of the Covid-19 funds they received to deal with Brexit. It's hard to see what they've done with that money, apart from push videos wailing about it on Twitter. Which I suppose is what you get when you elect a campaign group rather than a Government.
I would be interested to understand what they could have done.
They could have warned about CHEDs and warned the fishermen to get this sorted as it would be needed. They didn't, so it seems they didn't see it coming either.
But CHEDs may not have been necessary - remember we didn't know what the deal covered until December 24th
The advice was to prepare for WTO. That means prepare for everything, if it isn't needed then so be it you can cancel that preparation. Are CHEDs needed for WTO? If so, they should have been prepared for.
I always thought things like this would end up overlooked in the real world, hence Iwhy I expected disruption in January. C'est la vie.
If they needed to be prepared for, why did our own government not bother? Their Border Operating Model guidance is strangely quiet on the fact that bribing bored French customs agents would be required.
I would expect it got overlooked.
I expected something would, it is why I always expected disruption in January. There was always going to be something overlooked. Its natural.
LOL.
Fishing overlooked. Fishing. The most totemic element of Brexit and, if you read some of the coverage, perhaps the only reason we brexited in the first place.
Overlooked.
Very funny.
Well the need to isolate those infected with Covid, rather more important for the UK, has also been pretty well overlooked.
Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".
As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.
Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
Portugal is really bad too. Similar soaring rate to Ireland, so maybe Kentish Covid is doing its thing there, too. Total lockdown for 2 months from tomorrow.
Dental question for Pb-ers. My teeth are in a right old state. Haven’t been cleaned for a year. Just forgot, when I had a chance in the summer.
If I leave it much longer I’ll get gum problems. And dentists are open so I could get an appointment. Worth the risk?
Just get a toothbrush and clean them yourself.
My consumption of strong coffee and red wine means they need a pro
England: 248,177 total jabs yesterday, 239,815 first, 8,362 second. Total up 32% day on day, first 38%, second down 37%
A comparison of the weekly numbers for England suggest we started the week on 1,997,000 first doses, rather than 1,959,000 as shown on the dashboard. If we have identified ~40,000 more doses, do they get added to today's figure?
"This is a common Brexit-bashing trope I know , but the extent to which this is a return to the 1970s cannot be overstated.
This is people in booths, shuttling bits of paper between desks, getting this process working well, will rely on relationships, insider knowledge and money"
And
"I reread the UK-side traders bible the Border Operating Model. There is no reference to these key real world issues, hardly any references to 'CHEDs' at all and no major talk of the role of the customs agent,"
Sounds like a teething issue then, the kind of disruption I expected full well.
People didn't plan for these CHEDs, don't have them, so its causing issues. They'll need to sort this out and that should deal with it and life will move on.
So a system where to be able to import things into the EU far slower than before each individual business will need to spend the time and money building a business relationship with customs agents in France so that they can move the paperwork through.
And you think that's fine.
Yes.
Not ideal but if that's what the French insist upon and you want to export to France then deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
What about the additional costs those agents create - who pays those costs?
I would assume whoever is hiring the agents and they will bundle the fee from the agents into their costs, just as anyone else from the rest of the world who hires the agents already does every day around the globe.
Indeed. So as we're now seeing real world examples where the product cost increases by a good 40% when selling into the EU, vs 0% by competitors in the EU, the solution is for the business who has built up that trade to go sell products to someone else.
Or more realistically, go bust.
There's going to be some disruption yes.
I don't believe for one second the product cost is going up by 40% though. If we're talking £400 for a shipment (with that cost being due to the spike in demand it not normally costing that much) then are you claiming the shipment is only worth £1000 total? I don't believe you that the total cost of an entire shipment is a meagre £1000.
Didn't say all products would go up 40%, just that there have been real world examples where the cash value of the extra charges adds 40% to the bill. For smaller items the % will be much higher than 40%. Or would be if anyone was willing to buy them any more.
Got a source for a £400 agent fee being added to a £1000 container?
A £1000 margin is not a £1000 container unless there was literally 0 cost applied to it before.
Nope it's a £10,000 container which costs £9000 to catch and transport.
If you want a 40% example - there was one earlier this week where booksellers european customers were discovering the impact of no longer being able to purchase books from the UK where VAT is explicitly excluded.
Now all book sales are subject to the VAT of the customers country and there was a €15 DHL handling fee on top. And I think the original purchase was a £20 book
£400 on a £10,000 container is a 4% increase in cost not a 40% increase in costs.
Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".
As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.
Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
Portugal is really bad too. Similar soaring rate to Ireland, so maybe Kentish Covid is doing its thing there, too. Total lockdown for 2 months from tomorrow.
Dental question for Pb-ers. My teeth are in a right old state. Haven’t been cleaned for a year. Just forgot, when I had a chance in the summer.
If I leave it much longer I’ll get gum problems. And dentists are open so I could get an appointment. Worth the risk?
Business as usual at mine, and the mask up pretty well anyway.
Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".
As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.
Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
Portugal is really bad too. Similar soaring rate to Ireland, so maybe Kentish Covid is doing its thing there, too. Total lockdown for 2 months from tomorrow.
Dental question for Pb-ers. My teeth are in a right old state. Haven’t been cleaned for a year. Just forgot, when I had a chance in the summer.
If I leave it much longer I’ll get gum problems. And dentists are open so I could get an appointment. Worth the risk?
Of course you should go if you can - I went yesterday. Extraction.
AFAIK it is important stuff only - at least it is with our dental practice. No chance of a regular check up or a visit to hygienist (which I presume you are referring to) round here.
I`m worried me about my children who haven`t had check ups for over a year.
Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".
As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.
Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
Portugal is really bad too. Similar soaring rate to Ireland, so maybe Kentish Covid is doing its thing there, too. Total lockdown for 2 months from tomorrow.
Dental question for Pb-ers. My teeth are in a right old state. Haven’t been cleaned for a year. Just forgot, when I had a chance in the summer.
If I leave it much longer I’ll get gum problems. And dentists are open so I could get an appointment. Worth the risk?
Business as usual at mine, and the mask up pretty well anyway.
The home secretary has said the government will not announce new Covid restrictions on Thursday or Friday, but did not rule out further measures being announced next week.
I don't think so. Usually it's - 2pm: "no more restrictions" 5pm: more restrictions.
They have learned to move more quickly but I think they are seeing if the vaccine will affect numbers and whether cases/hospitalisations stabilise.
While ever supermarkets remain open more restrictions are pointless. They are clearly the biggest vectors.
People keep saying this, but.....
I haven't heard of any grumbling from supermarket workers (c/f teachers) and people don't spend much time in any one place next to another individual.
I just don't see why so many people are scared of supermarkets. I was using them throughout in the first wave (sans mask) and not a problem. Ditto everyone else I know...
It's pretty simple, I think. Take me as an illustration of the thoughts of millions. I know the new variant is very catching and potentially very nasty. I really don't want it. So I minimize my risk by staying at home or if I go out staying outdoors and well away from people. Except for the one and only time I can't stick to this. Going to a supermarket. It might be (per visit) low risk but I'll have to do it many many times before I'm jabbed. And even then, yes, cumulatively a small risk but my ONLY risk. Therefore I'm apprehensive each time.
And what really is the cost of wearing a mask and planning your shopping a tiny bit so that you can complete it more quickly with just one pass through the aisles? It is such a minor inconvenience, it boggles my mind that there is such resistance to it.
Some pretty rum attitudes have been on display at times during the pandemic. Personally, I don't feel the argument for the protection of essential liberties is well served by getting uptight over minor personal inconvenience suffered for the greater good in managing a public health crisis. The famous British stoicism has gone missing in places, which is disappointing, especially since it often seems to be the upper lips of quite loud Patriots which are not as stiff as one would expect to see.
My wife is doing a 4 hour shift at a vaccination centre this afternoon. I have asked her to count how many she does in that time period
That would be useful information to know.
If spread betting, I'd go for just under 500
At my mother's (her again!) local hospital vaccine centre they were doing 350 a day a fortnight ago and were expecting to ramp up the following week (1st week of Jan) to 500.
This was with immediate registration on entrance, waiting 1 min, then 3 min assessment filling in the forms online with one doctor (nurse? not sure), 1 min waiting, 2 mins with the doctor (they had several rooms each with a doctor in) who assessed her in person and administered the jab, and waiting the 15 minutes marshalled by one orderly.
While we were there (22 mins! ) there was minimal waiting and there were about 5-10 people at any one time in the 15 minute waiting area.
Let someone on PB disaggregate that and work out likely vaccination rates.
Edit: they seemed very not busy but it could easily have been very good planning for throughput.
It looks like it varies according to vaccine then.
Local football stadium.
Today: straight in the door (just turn up on or near appointment time). Three desks. Who are you (computer form), here's your card, here's your AZN jab, next. Rate limited by speed of vaccination and form filling. 5 minutes in and out.
Last week: Who are you, here's your card and sticker with your exit time, here's your Pfizer jab, sit over there until your exit time, next. Rate limited by number of chairs (30-35). 20 minutes in and out.
One thing's for sure - you describe the experience more succinctly than me.
My mother braved the Halifax-like conditions and made her vaccination appointment today. Got a toasted cheese sandwich and cup of tea while waiting the mandatory 15mins.
"Bankhead-Kendall, an assistant professor of surgery with Texas Tech University, in Lubbock, says patients who've had COVID-19 symptoms show a severe chest X-ray every time, and those who were asymptomatic show a severe chest X-ray 70 to 80% of the time.
"There are still people who say 'I'm fine. I don't have any issues,' and you pull up their chest X-ray and they absolutely have a bad chest X-ray," she said."
Comments
My point is that the people are being let down by their governments and completely unaccountable eurocrats. How does the guy in Germany waiting 6 months for his vaccine complain to the EU that they fucked it up? How does he get rid of the arseholes who completely ballsed up the most important procurement scheme the EU has ever faced or the the instructions to the regulator to not use emergency approval measures as the UK and US have done?
I've seen barely any criticism of the EU from European leaders and politicians, even though it's completely obvious how badly this has been bungled. Making our government accountable for our supply is absolutely great, our media can bang the government hard if we don't hit the 15m target, it's in our hands and if Boris and Hancock fuck it up then we know who is to blame and exactly who to vote for next time so we can get rid of them.
What they don't seem to grasp is that many of us love London, don't want to leave London and have no desire whatsoever to live in Lichfield.
I expected something would, it is why I always expected disruption in January. There was always going to be something overlooked. Its natural.
Or more realistically, go bust.
Daughter upset because her driving lessons have stopped and wants to go out with me with L plates on in a nearby industrial estate for a practice. I don`t want to get nicked.
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1349727791382581262?s=19
New odds;
M7 1/100
Bobi Wine 100/1
Supply and demand ought to help sort this out, if there's sufficient demand then someone will want the job.
Preventing your shoes from getting damp is not.
"Learning to drive during coronavirus (COVID-19)
"You cannot take driving lessons in England, Scotland or Wales.
"You can only practise driving with members of your household or support bubble. It must be travel for work, education or other essential journeys."
Fishing overlooked. Fishing. The most totemic element of Brexit and, if you read some of the coverage, perhaps the only reason we brexited in the first place.
Overlooked.
Very funny.
All this paperwork is a cost our exporters need to pay.
And that is before you remember that even after paying these export costs the people importing have an incentive to see if someone local can provide the goods instead.
Brexit will take over from EU regulation as a convenient all-purpose excuse for just about anything that you want to explain away.
Now, Tamworth? Redditch?
I think that's fair comment. I am on record on here as saying (as a longstanding Remainer) that the vaccine rollout is a benefit of being outside the EU.
I also think it makes my point that endlessly asking about the vaccine numbers, and not accepting any excuses, is exactly what we should be doing. The government should be kept under constant pressure. The focus should be entirely on that.
I don't believe for one second the product cost is going up by 40% though. If we're talking £400 for a shipment (with that cost being due to the spike in demand it not normally costing that much) then are you claiming the shipment is only worth £1000 total? I don't believe you that the total cost of an entire shipment is a meagre £1000.
But I don't want to live there.
Our Asda delivery man today said that Asda has become much quieter with a greatly increase police presence everywhere
I am sure that is true but as we are not going out I cannot verify it
Every different product will require different paperwork or at least a different form.
The EU is a net importer of fisheries and aquaculture products, mostly frozen, fresh and chilled. Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are the leading importing Member States.
I can't imagine you'd be breaking any law.
If that's illegal, the rules are even stupider than I thought!
And as far as I can see their testing number are plummeting.
However their "in ICU" figures have started coming down consistently as of a week ago so they are probably past the worst of it. Jut their super slow updates means it's going to look worse even as it is better.
I don't believe for a second £1000 is the total value of the shipment. The reports in the news are people saying their shipments, worth hundreds of thousands or millions, are caught up in this.
If the shipment is worth >£100,000 then the CHED is a <0.4% cost not a 40% cost.
Local football stadium.
Today: straight in the door (just turn up on or near appointment time). Three desks. Who are you (computer form), here's your card, here's your AZN jab, next. Rate limited by speed of vaccination and form filling. 5 minutes in and out.
Last week: Who are you, here's your card and sticker with your exit time, here's your Pfizer jab, sit over there until your exit time, next. Rate limited by number of chairs (30-35). 20 minutes in and out.
Fluctuations of the exchange rate can add more than 0.4% to the cost of something.
Live exports have far tighter restrictions (but far higher market prices) than frozen products.
The exports you are comparing us to are both very different and far more of a bulk none premium product.
But in any case, in a referendum it is the job of Remainers to provide the reasons against leaving. If they didn't put it on a bus, have a word with them for not bothering.
You get the @Mysticrose Award for Brevity today.
Having lived in North Wales for 55 years I have been to Cardiff once
A £1000 margin is not a £1000 container unless there was literally 0 cost applied to it before.
https://twitter.com/adamcooperF1/status/1349725819598372865
Fresh fish? That has to be shipped quickly. Which makes its market local. Which makes your map of the globe only to demonstrate your ignorance of the topic on which you are posting.
It is Fresh Fish that is rotting. Not frozen. "It doesn't work eh" because you can't ship fresh fish from fucking Vietnam or America or wherever. Eh. So the process doesn't work for these other countries, eh, because it doesn't.
You are like Philip. Clueless. But desperate to defend the government. So post guff.
It is Londoners who are the problem. They ruined everything with their insatiable greed & caused Brexit ...
Wenn man fragt, wer wohl sterben muss.
Und dann werden Sie mich sagen hören "Alle!"
Und wenn dann der Kopf fällt, sage ich"Hoppla!"
Because Brexit always was the greatest revenge fantasy of all.
https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/982270/#Comment_982270 https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/982286/#Comment_982286
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-55593308
Nobody mentioned containers. Other than you.
If you want a 40% example - there was one earlier this week where booksellers european customers were discovering the impact of no longer being able to purchase books from the UK where VAT is explicitly excluded.
Now all book sales are subject to the VAT of the customers country and there was a €15 DHL handling fee on top. And I think the original purchase was a £20 book
Dental question for Pb-ers. My teeth are in a right old state. Haven’t been cleaned for a year. Just forgot, when I had a chance in the summer.
If I leave it much longer I’ll get gum problems. And dentists are open so I could get an appointment. Worth the risk?
No doubt things will improve a little once the government gets round to writing and testing some computer systems and telling people what the rules are (rules which we've known about for decades, since we helped write them and have long been enforcing for third-country imports ourselves), but there will still be a massive medium-term hit.
This was of course very widely warned about. But the half-wit government we've landed ourselves with simply ignored the issue.
I hope your response was "well, that's not bloody good enough!"
He'd either have drifted right round that car, or totalled it. No feeble half measures.
The referendum wasn't in March it was in June 2016 and by June EEA had been ruled out by Boris and Gove etc
So neither funny, nor surprising.
That is maths.
AFAIK it is important stuff only - at least it is with our dental practice. No chance of a regular check up or a visit to hygienist (which I presume you are referring to) round here.
I`m worried me about my children who haven`t had check ups for over a year.
EDIT unless of course she's a bit crap at giving jabs, in which case....
My mother braved the Halifax-like conditions and made her vaccination appointment today.
Got a toasted cheese sandwich and cup of tea while waiting the mandatory 15mins.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/post-covid-lungs-worse-than-the-worst-smokers-lungs-surgeon-says/
"Bankhead-Kendall, an assistant professor of surgery with Texas Tech University, in Lubbock, says patients who've had COVID-19 symptoms show a severe chest X-ray every time, and those who were asymptomatic show a severe chest X-ray 70 to 80% of the time.
"There are still people who say 'I'm fine. I don't have any issues,' and you pull up their chest X-ray and they absolutely have a bad chest X-ray," she said."