Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
I’ll pass on your patriotism/loyalty tests if that’s okay. No one has suggested such a thing and the Government claims it has contingency plans in place in case of disruption. Your anger at the side that lost when you are on the verge of getting a everything you wanted is sinister.
Scott has posted a tweet saying that our vaccine supply might be delayed because of this latest covid strain. The supply we need can happen with virtually zero risk of new strain transmission. If the EU or any constituent countries block our vaccine supply because of it, I'd consider that an act of war. I seriously doubt it could ever happen, but the tweet suggested it could.
You won. Get over it. This is what you voted for. We can’t force another country to supply us with something we don’t have. We can trade for it sure but we can’t force a supply. We can’t declare war on a NATO country (which most EU counties are) as we would automatically be at war with the whole alliance. We are also strategically outflanked by the EU to our east and west. So if something they do interrupts the supply of something they make we are just going to have to live with it. It’s life I’m afraid.
So you're defending the EU if they block our vaccine supplies.
Remainiac No. 2.
Doug appears to have been driven temporarily insane by today's interesting times.
NY Governor Cuomo calling for flights from UK to US to be suspended.
Indeed. The idea that the EU is using the mutoid Supercovid to punish us/forewarn us about the idiocies of Hard Brexit is largely nonsense.
Iran has also suspended flights to/from UK.
More likely, every global government has looked at the UK data supplied to WHO, and got the squits, as they realise this strain is potentially so virulent it cannot be locked down. It will always win. It is the Alien in Alien. Except there is no escape podule. No Sigourney Weaver in white knickers.
As said below, their efforts to save the cat are probably fruitless anyway. If this strain is that bad, it will find a way into every country, if it hasn’t already in most of Western Europe.
Hi Sean.
I remember once being told by a tutor that he wanted each of us to develop a writing style so personal and distinctive that he could recognize it instantly even without our names attached.
I don't know why that thought suddenly occurred to me...
Seant has a brilliant and very distinctive style - it's just quite funny that all of his PB accounts use exactly the same style. I've never been tempted to delve into his ouevre, but I sometimes wonder if all his characters shout at each other in the same pithy phrases.
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
I’ll pass on your patriotism/loyalty tests if that’s okay. No one has suggested such a thing and the Government claims it has contingency plans in place in case of disruption. Your anger at the side that lost when you are on the verge of getting a everything you wanted is sinister.
Scott has posted a tweet saying that our vaccine supply might be delayed because of this latest covid strain. The supply we need can happen with virtually zero risk of new strain transmission. If the EU or any constituent countries block our vaccine supply because of it, I'd consider that an act of war. I seriously doubt it could ever happen, but the tweet suggested it could.
You won. Get over it. This is what you voted for. We can’t force another country to supply us with something we don’t have. We can trade for it sure but we can’t force a supply. We can’t declare war on a NATO country (which most EU counties are) as we would automatically be at war with the whole alliance. We are also strategically outflanked by the EU to our east and west. So if something they do interrupts the supply of something they make we are just going to have to live with it. It’s life I’m afraid.
So you're defending the EU if they block our vaccine supplies.
Remainiac No. 2.
I’m not defending anyone. I’m detailing my opinion. If I’m wrong say so and explain why, You won. Be happy.
You are though saying that supplies we have ordered and paid for and that have been manufactured for us on that basis they are perfectly within their rights to block us from having despite the export not being against their own laws or eu laws. Sounds pretty much tantamount to defending a blockade for no other reason than vindictiveness to me.
That won't affect me personally. In my shopping choices. As I said in the bit of my post that you thought not worth being undeleted.
Remainiac No. 1...
Disaster for Scotland
It's definitely not a good thing, though I'm not sure it's disastrous. I might have been wrong in my response to Scotty though. If those Scottish shellfish make their way down to Wiltshire I may well be changing my shopping choices and hunting them out.
Be bully bargains for sure, but just the start of bad things for Scotland. How the idiots ever allowed us to depend on Dover to ship our goods is a scandal. Not having developed our own ferry links to Scandinavia & northern Europe increasingly looks like a massive strategic error. Unlikely with our lower infection rates such routes would have been closed to Scottish hauliers.
Our reliance on Dover is insane. It's obviously the shortest and quickest crossing from the EU to the UK, but we should have much more lorry freight capacity elsewhere.
It is the price of capitalism.
Spare capacity for emergencies is less efficient. Over the short term lower efficiency agents get out competed and destroyed by higher efficiency companies.
By its very nature capitalism generates fragile structures.
Spot on.
Imagine you are running a business, it takes one day and costs £100 to go via Dover, or two days and £200 to go via Portsmouth.
If you use Portsmouth, then your competitors who use Dover will eat your lunch. They'll have lower prices and sell more.
Surely then if costs for using dover go up because of queues that will mean freight traffic will redistribute to use other ports, a loss for dover but a gain for those other underused ports
Please explain how the reason there are queues at Dover would not affect any other south coast port.
I must admit I had the same thought there. I have always assumed that 'Dover' is just being used as a catchall for all ports and that all would have similar issues corresponding to their level of cross channel traffic.
I mentioned this earlier, without any reply unless I missed it; but how has Ireland - as the centre of global pharmaceuticals by density (apparently about 100 global pharmas based there) - managed to only secure 5000 doses of covid vaccine for this year?
Time to appoint Nicola Sturgeon as UK wide Covid minister, with Johnathan Van Tam and Jason Leitch as her advisers. Sideline Johnson, Vallance, Whitty and Drakeford.
Interesting charting of the genetic variations of the COVID virus - I don't know whether they haven't got the data, or it hasn't been published, or something else - but the UK has reported 1547 variations, the USA, 306, France 47 and Germany ("the UK strain isn't here")- 6:
The UK has reported 86% of the variants found in Europe....
According to the FT, the UK and Denmark have the ‘best genetic sequencing’ in the world. I have no idea if or why this is true. But it is intriguing that these are the two countries to react like scalded cats to potential mutations. In Denmark they slaughtered the mink. In the UK we have very sensibly kept out the French, who were clearly trying to steal our world-beating mutation in wheels of Dorset Camembert
Notably Denmark (54) have identified almost as many as China (56). There are some striking "small country' players like Singapore (36) and New Zealand (46).....Belgium meanwhile has 1...
As always, there's a price to being honest. We could easily have just said nothing and alerted no one. Instead we did the right thing and now we're being punished for it while nations who very obviously also have the same virus mutation keep quiet and silently spread it because their borders are still open.
That won't affect me personally. In my shopping choices. As I said in the bit of my post that you thought not worth being undeleted.
Remainiac No. 1...
Disaster for Scotland
It's definitely not a good thing, though I'm not sure it's disastrous. I might have been wrong in my response to Scotty though. If those Scottish shellfish make their way down to Wiltshire I may well be changing my shopping choices and hunting them out.
Be bully bargains for sure, but just the start of bad things for Scotland. How the idiots ever allowed us to depend on Dover to ship our goods is a scandal. Not having developed our own ferry links to Scandinavia & northern Europe increasingly looks like a massive strategic error. Unlikely with our lower infection rates such routes would have been closed to Scottish hauliers.
Our reliance on Dover is insane. It's obviously the shortest and quickest crossing from the EU to the UK, but we should have much more lorry freight capacity elsewhere.
It is the price of capitalism.
Spare capacity for emergencies is less efficient. Over the short term lower efficiency agents get out competed and destroyed by higher efficiency companies.
By its very nature capitalism generates fragile structures.
Spot on.
Imagine you are running a business, it takes one day and costs £100 to go via Dover, or two days and £200 to go via Portsmouth.
If you use Portsmouth, then your competitors who use Dover will eat your lunch. They'll have lower prices and sell more.
Surely then if costs for using dover go up because of queues that will mean freight traffic will redistribute to use other ports, a loss for dover but a gain for those other underused ports
Please explain how the reason there are queues at Dover would not affect any other south coast port.
Well not all ports are south coast for a start
Quote "The reported claims that outside Dover, the UK east coast can handle 3.6m ro-ro units a year, mostly unaccompanied trailer units, as well as 1.2m teu in shortsea container traffic.
This extra capacity represents around 60% of the total volume of 2018 UK-continental European trade, which was 8.15 million ro-ro and container units, of which 4.7 million passed through the Dover straits."
Yes before you say it the Port of Dover CEO made objections to the report but then you have to consider he would be rather likely to be the Mandy Rice Davies here
My point is, the queues at Dover are caused by issues in France and would apply to any port exporting to France. For 'France' read 'Europe' in the event of No Deal.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
Evidence of increased transmissibility was provided to NERVTAG and ministers on December 18.
Every person arguing on here tonight agrees more, but how much more? Enough to justify the ramping of it into serious mutant ninja chaos?
I think we are possibly running a little ahead of the known facts.
Not really, an estimate was given in the minutes of the meeting.
At the risk of adding facts to the conversation - this is R calculated from cases
Other countries will be similar.
This means that a variant that increases the effective R by 0.4 or more would mean that R would remain above 1 during a full lockdown.
I think the ramp up of testing skews the April and May figures. Better to use hospital admissions I think.
Ask, and ye shall receive....
Again, with 0.4+ on R, nearly the entire graph would be above 1.0
The .4 to .9 is certain? Not something that with more verification becomes .1 to .5?
Certainly media coverage ramps this up to a point that is scary, of that there is no doubt. Yet, in their scary reports are the scientists themselves saying don’t panic, don’t be fearful of this just yet. Exhibit A for my prosecution of rampers, Sky news 2300 news a few minutes ago. Lead with the “fact” scientists have said it’s more dangerous than Boris admitted, followed with a report to wring every frightening nuance out of mutating virus.
Worst case scenarios are not fact, should not be peddled as fact. Agree?
Yes, but my point stands - it doesn't take much of an increase in infectivity for the R number to be above 1.0, despite lockdowns...
That won't affect me personally. In my shopping choices. As I said in the bit of my post that you thought not worth being undeleted.
Remainiac No. 1...
Disaster for Scotland
It's definitely not a good thing, though I'm not sure it's disastrous. I might have been wrong in my response to Scotty though. If those Scottish shellfish make their way down to Wiltshire I may well be changing my shopping choices and hunting them out.
Be bully bargains for sure, but just the start of bad things for Scotland. How the idiots ever allowed us to depend on Dover to ship our goods is a scandal. Not having developed our own ferry links to Scandinavia & northern Europe increasingly looks like a massive strategic error. Unlikely with our lower infection rates such routes would have been closed to Scottish hauliers.
Our reliance on Dover is insane. It's obviously the shortest and quickest crossing from the EU to the UK, but we should have much more lorry freight capacity elsewhere.
It is the price of capitalism.
Spare capacity for emergencies is less efficient. Over the short term lower efficiency agents get out competed and destroyed by higher efficiency companies.
By its very nature capitalism generates fragile structures.
I can't argue with any of that. Now might be the perfect opportunity for us to make a serious state aided (WeverTF the EU say about state aid) development of other ports.
Where would the ports ship to? It's no good upgrading capacity on one side only and without any commercial demand.
I'm no more of an expert than Raab, but wouldn't be well served by better connections to Belgium and the Netherlands?
Define better. The more sea you have to cross, the slower it gets.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
That won't affect me personally. In my shopping choices. As I said in the bit of my post that you thought not worth being undeleted.
Remainiac No. 1...
Disaster for Scotland
It's definitely not a good thing, though I'm not sure it's disastrous. I might have been wrong in my response to Scotty though. If those Scottish shellfish make their way down to Wiltshire I may well be changing my shopping choices and hunting them out.
Be bully bargains for sure, but just the start of bad things for Scotland. How the idiots ever allowed us to depend on Dover to ship our goods is a scandal. Not having developed our own ferry links to Scandinavia & northern Europe increasingly looks like a massive strategic error. Unlikely with our lower infection rates such routes would have been closed to Scottish hauliers.
Our reliance on Dover is insane. It's obviously the shortest and quickest crossing from the EU to the UK, but we should have much more lorry freight capacity elsewhere.
It is the price of capitalism.
Spare capacity for emergencies is less efficient. Over the short term lower efficiency agents get out competed and destroyed by higher efficiency companies.
By its very nature capitalism generates fragile structures.
Spot on.
Imagine you are running a business, it takes one day and costs £100 to go via Dover, or two days and £200 to go via Portsmouth.
If you use Portsmouth, then your competitors who use Dover will eat your lunch. They'll have lower prices and sell more.
Surely then if costs for using dover go up because of queues that will mean freight traffic will redistribute to use other ports, a loss for dover but a gain for those other underused ports
Please explain how the reason there are queues at Dover would not affect any other south coast port.
I must admit I had the same thought there. I have always assumed that 'Dover' is just being used as a catchall for all ports and that all would have similar issues corresponding to their level of cross channel traffic.
Evidence of increased transmissibility was provided to NERVTAG and ministers on December 18.
Every person arguing on here tonight agrees more, but how much more? Enough to justify the ramping of it into serious mutant ninja chaos?
I think we are possibly running a little ahead of the known facts.
Not really, an estimate was given in the minutes of the meeting.
At the risk of adding facts to the conversation - this is R calculated from cases
Other countries will be similar.
This means that a variant that increases the effective R by 0.4 or more would mean that R would remain above 1 during a full lockdown.
Doesn't that graph upthread show that a full lockdown still suppresses in Tier 4? It's only ballooned since it was let off.
Started rising before the end, unfortunately.
Yes, but it was going down before then.
If it's been around since October then that doesn't make much sense.
Either way a full lockdown would still work you'd just have to do it in a tighter way to compensate.
Didn't it only recently become the dominant strain? Because of exponential growth you wouldn't notice it until right at the end when it balloons out of control.
Agreed on your last point.
It was supposed to already have been the dominant strain in London and parts of the South-East over a month ago, IIRC.
No, only recently.
The new strain first occurred in September in the South East, Sir Patrick said. By the middle of November, it accounted for 28 per cent of all new Covid infections in the capital, rising to 62 per cent by December 9.
This is a good stat to ask the question of. What is it actually saying to us to justify mutant ninja panic?
By December 9 it accounted for a whopping 62 percent of covid infections in the capital. Oh Jesus Christ almighty!
But what does that really mean?
It’s much more harmful than precious strain? It’s much more resistant to treatment than previous strain? It’s more easy to pick up than previous strain?
And if you say certain to the last line, rather like a sub sample in an opinion pole can give astonishing readings, is it not same that what boffins will claim will change with more data?
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
Parodying yourself now?
No, just watched Death of Stalin
Ah. Any good?
Very funny in parts.
Brown went from Stalin to Mr Bean according to Vince Cable, perhaps this year Boris will do the reverse
That won't affect me personally. In my shopping choices. As I said in the bit of my post that you thought not worth being undeleted.
Remainiac No. 1...
Disaster for Scotland
It's definitely not a good thing, though I'm not sure it's disastrous. I might have been wrong in my response to Scotty though. If those Scottish shellfish make their way down to Wiltshire I may well be changing my shopping choices and hunting them out.
Be bully bargains for sure, but just the start of bad things for Scotland. How the idiots ever allowed us to depend on Dover to ship our goods is a scandal. Not having developed our own ferry links to Scandinavia & northern Europe increasingly looks like a massive strategic error. Unlikely with our lower infection rates such routes would have been closed to Scottish hauliers.
Our reliance on Dover is insane. It's obviously the shortest and quickest crossing from the EU to the UK, but we should have much more lorry freight capacity elsewhere.
It is the price of capitalism.
Spare capacity for emergencies is less efficient. Over the short term lower efficiency agents get out competed and destroyed by higher efficiency companies.
By its very nature capitalism generates fragile structures.
Spot on.
Imagine you are running a business, it takes one day and costs £100 to go via Dover, or two days and £200 to go via Portsmouth.
If you use Portsmouth, then your competitors who use Dover will eat your lunch. They'll have lower prices and sell more.
Surely then if costs for using dover go up because of queues that will mean freight traffic will redistribute to use other ports, a loss for dover but a gain for those other underused ports
Please explain how the reason there are queues at Dover would not affect any other south coast port.
I must admit I had the same thought there. I have always assumed that 'Dover' is just being used as a catchall for all ports and that all would have similar issues corresponding to their level of cross channel traffic.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Now you are testing me as he is not a Sturgeon or Starmer and his time as First Minister of Wales has been a disaster
Now his predecessor Carwyn Jones would have been very good
Your calls for unity didn’t last long.
I want the best for the job to be honest
Paul Davies?
I am not impressed to be honest
Good, he makes Drakeford look like Albert Einstein!
You don't live here, you don't have to listen to Paul Davies's incoherent ramblings day and night. The only positive in his favour is, at least he is not RT.
I would rather have a 100 Paul Davies' than a whinging Nat like Price, nothing wrong with RT either, he even gave me a lift in his car when I was campaigning at Aber
Your going a little bit over the top there HYUFD with your support! 😀
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Now you are testing me as he is not a Sturgeon or Starmer and his time as First Minister of Wales has been a disaster
Now his predecessor Carwyn Jones would have been very good
Your calls for unity didn’t last long.
I want the best for the job to be honest
Paul Davies?
I am not impressed to be honest
Good, he makes Drakeford look like Albert Einstein!
You don't live here, you don't have to listen to Paul Davies's incoherent ramblings day and night. The only positive in his favour is, at least he is not RT.
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
I’ll pass on your patriotism/loyalty tests if that’s okay. No one has suggested such a thing and the Government claims it has contingency plans in place in case of disruption. Your anger at the side that lost when you are on the verge of getting a everything you wanted is sinister.
Scott has posted a tweet saying that our vaccine supply might be delayed because of this latest covid strain. The supply we need can happen with virtually zero risk of new strain transmission. If the EU or any constituent countries block our vaccine supply because of it, I'd consider that an act of war. I seriously doubt it could ever happen, but the tweet suggested it could.
You won. Get over it. This is what you voted for. We can’t force another country to supply us with something we don’t have. We can trade for it sure but we can’t force a supply. We can’t declare war on a NATO country (which most EU counties are) as we would automatically be at war with the whole alliance. We are also strategically outflanked by the EU to our east and west. So if something they do interrupts the supply of something they make we are just going to have to live with it. It’s life I’m afraid.
So you're defending the EU if they block our vaccine supplies.
Remainiac No. 2.
I’m not defending anyone. I’m detailing my opinion. If I’m wrong say so and explain why, You won. Be happy.
You are though saying that supplies we have ordered and paid for and that have been manufactured for us on that basis they are perfectly within their rights to block us from having despite the export not being against their own laws or eu laws. Sounds pretty much tantamount to defending a blockade for no other reason than vindictiveness to me.
Do stop sounding like the self-righteous brothers. Nobody has seriously suggested that any such thing is going to happen in a month of Sundays. Vaccines getting stuck in traffic because everything is stuck in traffic is a different matter.
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
You voted for this nonsense apparently, so why should you worry about it?
If you consider that is a reasonable response to claims that we might have vaccine supplies cut off - no matter how idiotic they are - then you really have lost all sense of perspective. Shame on you.
Look. This guy voted, I presume, for Brexit because of the perceived benefit of getting away from the EU. Literally, why should he care what they do? Instead of which he sets up these straw man arguments to make a cheap point about those that didn't vote the way he did.
No. In case you missed it there were serious suggestions from anti-Brexiteers that the supply of vaccines could be blocked. And Dougseal on here has just said that would be understandable.
That won't affect me personally. In my shopping choices. As I said in the bit of my post that you thought not worth being undeleted.
Remainiac No. 1...
Disaster for Scotland
It's definitely not a good thing, though I'm not sure it's disastrous. I might have been wrong in my response to Scotty though. If those Scottish shellfish make their way down to Wiltshire I may well be changing my shopping choices and hunting them out.
Be bully bargains for sure, but just the start of bad things for Scotland. How the idiots ever allowed us to depend on Dover to ship our goods is a scandal. Not having developed our own ferry links to Scandinavia & northern Europe increasingly looks like a massive strategic error. Unlikely with our lower infection rates such routes would have been closed to Scottish hauliers.
Our reliance on Dover is insane. It's obviously the shortest and quickest crossing from the EU to the UK, but we should have much more lorry freight capacity elsewhere.
It is the price of capitalism.
Spare capacity for emergencies is less efficient. Over the short term lower efficiency agents get out competed and destroyed by higher efficiency companies.
By its very nature capitalism generates fragile structures.
Spot on.
Imagine you are running a business, it takes one day and costs £100 to go via Dover, or two days and £200 to go via Portsmouth.
If you use Portsmouth, then your competitors who use Dover will eat your lunch. They'll have lower prices and sell more.
Surely then if costs for using dover go up because of queues that will mean freight traffic will redistribute to use other ports, a loss for dover but a gain for those other underused ports
Please explain how the reason there are queues at Dover would not affect any other south coast port.
Well not all ports are south coast for a start
Quote "The reported claims that outside Dover, the UK east coast can handle 3.6m ro-ro units a year, mostly unaccompanied trailer units, as well as 1.2m teu in shortsea container traffic.
This extra capacity represents around 60% of the total volume of 2018 UK-continental European trade, which was 8.15 million ro-ro and container units, of which 4.7 million passed through the Dover straits."
Yes before you say it the Port of Dover CEO made objections to the report but then you have to consider he would be rather likely to be the Mandy Rice Davies here
My point is, the queues at Dover are caused by issues in France and would apply to any port exporting to France. For 'France' read 'Europe' in the event of No Deal.
If you have 20000 trucks going to 1 port common sense says that instead sending 5000 trucks to 4 ports which sail to different ports gives you less queues at each place.
Go to a supermarket and witness for yourself. The more tills open the less the queue at each
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
Parodying yourself now?
No, just watched Death of Stalin
Ah. Any good?
Sensational, would strongly recommend.
On of the funniest and blackest films I have seen in years. A masterpiece of black comedy which is all the more amazing because it is basically true.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
Interesting charting of the genetic variations of the COVID virus - I don't know whether they haven't got the data, or it hasn't been published, or something else - but the UK has reported 1547 variations, the USA, 306, France 47 and Germany ("the UK strain isn't here")- 6:
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
I’ll pass on your patriotism/loyalty tests if that’s okay. No one has suggested such a thing and the Government claims it has contingency plans in place in case of disruption. Your anger at the side that lost when you are on the verge of getting a everything you wanted is sinister.
Scott has posted a tweet saying that our vaccine supply might be delayed because of this latest covid strain. The supply we need can happen with virtually zero risk of new strain transmission. If the EU or any constituent countries block our vaccine supply because of it, I'd consider that an act of war. I seriously doubt it could ever happen, but the tweet suggested it could.
You won. Get over it. This is what you voted for. We can’t force another country to supply us with something we don’t have. We can trade for it sure but we can’t force a supply. We can’t declare war on a NATO country (which most EU counties are) as we would automatically be at war with the whole alliance. We are also strategically outflanked by the EU to our east and west. So if something they do interrupts the supply of something they make we are just going to have to live with it. It’s life I’m afraid.
So you're defending the EU if they block our vaccine supplies.
Remainiac No. 2.
I’m not defending anyone. I’m detailing my opinion. If I’m wrong say so and explain why, You won. Be happy.
You are though saying that supplies we have ordered and paid for and that have been manufactured for us on that basis they are perfectly within their rights to block us from having despite the export not being against their own laws or eu laws. Sounds pretty much tantamount to defending a blockade for no other reason than vindictiveness to me.
Do stop sounding like the self-righteous brothers. Nobody has seriously suggested that any such thing is going to happen in a month of Sundays. Vaccines getting stuck in traffic because everything is stuck in traffic is a different matter.
Get off your high horse the message I was replying to was about just such a situation
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England and has its own Senedd already, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
I just have a horrible nightmarish, feeling that one day HYUFD will be a Welsh Tory MP.
He has exactly the kind of tenuous association with Wales that Virginia Crosbie MP has -- she was borne and bred in Essex before accidentally discovering opening her atlas and discovering where Ynys Mon is.
I'm no more of an expert than Raab, but wouldn't be well served by better connections to Belgium and the Netherlands?
Define better. The more sea you have to cross, the slower it gets.
How did the EU encourage flights into empty airports? Surely we could incentivise routes into newly built up ports?
Landing at a different airport doesn't affect journey time or cost. Are you suggesting we should subsidise shipping on an ongoing basis for the sake of adding redundancy?
Interesting charting of the genetic variations of the COVID virus - I don't know whether they haven't got the data, or it hasn't been published, or something else - but the UK has reported 1547 variations, the USA, 306, France 47 and Germany ("the UK strain isn't here")- 6:
That won't affect me personally. In my shopping choices. As I said in the bit of my post that you thought not worth being undeleted.
Remainiac No. 1...
Disaster for Scotland
It's definitely not a good thing, though I'm not sure it's disastrous. I might have been wrong in my response to Scotty though. If those Scottish shellfish make their way down to Wiltshire I may well be changing my shopping choices and hunting them out.
Be bully bargains for sure, but just the start of bad things for Scotland. How the idiots ever allowed us to depend on Dover to ship our goods is a scandal. Not having developed our own ferry links to Scandinavia & northern Europe increasingly looks like a massive strategic error. Unlikely with our lower infection rates such routes would have been closed to Scottish hauliers.
Our reliance on Dover is insane. It's obviously the shortest and quickest crossing from the EU to the UK, but we should have much more lorry freight capacity elsewhere.
It is the price of capitalism.
Spare capacity for emergencies is less efficient. Over the short term lower efficiency agents get out competed and destroyed by higher efficiency companies.
By its very nature capitalism generates fragile structures.
Spot on.
Imagine you are running a business, it takes one day and costs £100 to go via Dover, or two days and £200 to go via Portsmouth.
If you use Portsmouth, then your competitors who use Dover will eat your lunch. They'll have lower prices and sell more.
Surely then if costs for using dover go up because of queues that will mean freight traffic will redistribute to use other ports, a loss for dover but a gain for those other underused ports
Please explain how the reason there are queues at Dover would not affect any other south coast port.
Well not all ports are south coast for a start
Quote "The reported claims that outside Dover, the UK east coast can handle 3.6m ro-ro units a year, mostly unaccompanied trailer units, as well as 1.2m teu in shortsea container traffic.
This extra capacity represents around 60% of the total volume of 2018 UK-continental European trade, which was 8.15 million ro-ro and container units, of which 4.7 million passed through the Dover straits."
Yes before you say it the Port of Dover CEO made objections to the report but then you have to consider he would be rather likely to be the Mandy Rice Davies here
No, you are Mandy Rice-Davies, the Port of Dover CEO is Lord Astor!
That won't affect me personally. In my shopping choices. As I said in the bit of my post that you thought not worth being undeleted.
Remainiac No. 1...
Disaster for Scotland
It's definitely not a good thing, though I'm not sure it's disastrous. I might have been wrong in my response to Scotty though. If those Scottish shellfish make their way down to Wiltshire I may well be changing my shopping choices and hunting them out.
Be bully bargains for sure, but just the start of bad things for Scotland. How the idiots ever allowed us to depend on Dover to ship our goods is a scandal. Not having developed our own ferry links to Scandinavia & northern Europe increasingly looks like a massive strategic error. Unlikely with our lower infection rates such routes would have been closed to Scottish hauliers.
Our reliance on Dover is insane. It's obviously the shortest and quickest crossing from the EU to the UK, but we should have much more lorry freight capacity elsewhere.
It is the price of capitalism.
Spare capacity for emergencies is less efficient. Over the short term lower efficiency agents get out competed and destroyed by higher efficiency companies.
By its very nature capitalism generates fragile structures.
Spot on.
Imagine you are running a business, it takes one day and costs £100 to go via Dover, or two days and £200 to go via Portsmouth.
If you use Portsmouth, then your competitors who use Dover will eat your lunch. They'll have lower prices and sell more.
Surely then if costs for using dover go up because of queues that will mean freight traffic will redistribute to use other ports, a loss for dover but a gain for those other underused ports
Please explain how the reason there are queues at Dover would not affect any other south coast port.
Well not all ports are south coast for a start
Quote "The reported claims that outside Dover, the UK east coast can handle 3.6m ro-ro units a year, mostly unaccompanied trailer units, as well as 1.2m teu in shortsea container traffic.
This extra capacity represents around 60% of the total volume of 2018 UK-continental European trade, which was 8.15 million ro-ro and container units, of which 4.7 million passed through the Dover straits."
Yes before you say it the Port of Dover CEO made objections to the report but then you have to consider he would be rather likely to be the Mandy Rice Davies here
No, you are Mandy Rice-Davies, the Port of Dover CEO is Lord Astor!
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England and has its own Senedd already, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
I just have a horrible nightmarish, feeling that one day HYUFD will be a Welsh Tory MP.
He has exactly the kind of tenuous association with Wales that Virginia Crosbie MP has -- she was borne and bred in Essex before accidentally discovering opening her atlas and discovering where Ynys Mon is.
Well one Epping Forest cllr is now the Tory candidate for Islwyn for the Senedd next year and of course we all know how close Mark Reckless and Neil Hamilton are to Wales, I believe Hamilton also went to Aber
Evidence of increased transmissibility was provided to NERVTAG and ministers on December 18.
Every person arguing on here tonight agrees more, but how much more? Enough to justify the ramping of it into serious mutant ninja chaos?
I think we are possibly running a little ahead of the known facts.
Not really, an estimate was given in the minutes of the meeting.
At the risk of adding facts to the conversation - this is R calculated from cases
Other countries will be similar.
This means that a variant that increases the effective R by 0.4 or more would mean that R would remain above 1 during a full lockdown.
Doesn't that graph upthread show that a full lockdown still suppresses in Tier 4? It's only ballooned since it was let off.
Started rising before the end, unfortunately.
Yes, but it was going down before then.
If it's been around since October then that doesn't make much sense.
Either way a full lockdown would still work you'd just have to do it in a tighter way to compensate.
Didn't it only recently become the dominant strain? Because of exponential growth you wouldn't notice it until right at the end when it balloons out of control.
Agreed on your last point.
It was supposed to already have been the dominant strain in London and parts of the South-East over a month ago, IIRC.
No, only recently.
The new strain first occurred in September in the South East, Sir Patrick said. By the middle of November, it accounted for 28 per cent of all new Covid infections in the capital, rising to 62 per cent by December 9.
This is a good stat to ask the question of. What is it actually saying to us to justify mutant ninja panic?
By December 9 it accounted for a whopping 62 percent of covid infections in the capital. Oh Jesus Christ almighty!
But what does that really mean?
It’s much more harmful than precious strain? It’s much more resistant to treatment than previous strain? It’s more easy to pick up than previous strain?
And if you say certain to the last line, rather like a sub sample in an opinion pole can give astonishing readings, is it not same that what boffins will claim will change with more data?
Your questions are sensible.
The problem is to answer them -- and especially with the confidence that you feel you need -- we would have to spend 3 months in intensive laboratory work.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England and has its own Senedd already, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
I just have a horrible nightmarish, feeling that one day HYUFD will be a Welsh Tory MP.
He has exactly the kind of tenuous association with Wales that Virginia Crosbie MP has -- she was borne and bred in Essex before accidentally discovering opening her atlas and discovering where Ynys Mon is.
Well one Epping Forest cllr is now the Tory candidate for Islwyn for the Senedd next year and of course we all know how close Mark Reckless and Neil Hamilton are to Wales, I believe Hamilton also went to Aber
I think he was also born in Abergavenny. I may be wrong.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
Parodying yourself now?
No, just watched Death of Stalin
Ah. Any good?
Very funny in parts.
Brown went from Stalin to Mr Bean according to Vince Cable, perhaps this year Boris will do the reverse
Hah. I apreciate you are joking but which would be worse - living in a country led by Mr Bean or Stalin?
No contest: we are seeing the shambles Mr. Boris Bean is making of it but at least we can criticise. No such chance under Uncle Joe.
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
I’ll pass on your patriotism/loyalty tests if that’s okay. No one has suggested such a thing and the Government claims it has contingency plans in place in case of disruption. Your anger at the side that lost when you are on the verge of getting a everything you wanted is sinister.
Scott has posted a tweet saying that our vaccine supply might be delayed because of this latest covid strain. The supply we need can happen with virtually zero risk of new strain transmission. If the EU or any constituent countries block our vaccine supply because of it, I'd consider that an act of war. I seriously doubt it could ever happen, but the tweet suggested it could.
You won. Get over it. This is what you voted for. We can’t force another country to supply us with something we don’t have. We can trade for it sure but we can’t force a supply. We can’t declare war on a NATO country (which most EU counties are) as we would automatically be at war with the whole alliance. We are also strategically outflanked by the EU to our east and west. So if something they do interrupts the supply of something they make we are just going to have to live with it. It’s life I’m afraid.
So you're defending the EU if they block our vaccine supplies.
Remainiac No. 2.
I’m not defending anyone. I’m detailing my opinion. If I’m wrong say so and explain why, You won. Be happy.
You are though saying that supplies we have ordered and paid for and that have been manufactured for us on that basis they are perfectly within their rights to block us from having despite the export not being against their own laws or eu laws. Sounds pretty much tantamount to defending a blockade for no other reason than vindictiveness to me.
Not at all. I said no such thing. I did not say that they were "within their rights" or "right" or "correct" to take such a course of action. If only in breach of contract they would clearly be legally in the wrong. What we can and cannot cannot realistically do in such an eventuality is, to me, clear. We can't do anything. I make no value judgments whatsoever. And given that we he apparently made contingency plans in any event this is all hypothetical
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
I’ll pass on your patriotism/loyalty tests if that’s okay. No one has suggested such a thing and the Government claims it has contingency plans in place in case of disruption. Your anger at the side that lost when you are on the verge of getting a everything you wanted is sinister.
Scott has posted a tweet saying that our vaccine supply might be delayed because of this latest covid strain. The supply we need can happen with virtually zero risk of new strain transmission. If the EU or any constituent countries block our vaccine supply because of it, I'd consider that an act of war. I seriously doubt it could ever happen, but the tweet suggested it could.
You won. Get over it. This is what you voted for. We can’t force another country to supply us with something we don’t have. We can trade for it sure but we can’t force a supply. We can’t declare war on a NATO country (which most EU counties are) as we would automatically be at war with the whole alliance. We are also strategically outflanked by the EU to our east and west. So if something they do interrupts the supply of something they make we are just going to have to live with it. It’s life I’m afraid.
So you're defending the EU if they block our vaccine supplies.
Remainiac No. 2.
I’m not defending anyone. I’m detailing my opinion. If I’m wrong say so and explain why, You won. Be happy.
You are though saying that supplies we have ordered and paid for and that have been manufactured for us on that basis they are perfectly within their rights to block us from having despite the export not being against their own laws or eu laws. Sounds pretty much tantamount to defending a blockade for no other reason than vindictiveness to me.
Do stop sounding like the self-righteous brothers. Nobody has seriously suggested that any such thing is going to happen in a month of Sundays. Vaccines getting stuck in traffic because everything is stuck in traffic is a different matter.
When have vaccines been stuck in traffic, or when are they about to be stuck in traffic, or when will they ever be stuck in traffic?
Any such suggestion is ludicrous. They won't be travelling Calais to Dover. Or anywhere else they might be delayed. The only way they could be, from Pfizer/BioNTech, is if the EU banned their delivery.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Now you are testing me as he is not a Sturgeon or Starmer and his time as First Minister of Wales has been a disaster
Now his predecessor Carwyn Jones would have been very good
Your calls for unity didn’t last long.
I want the best for the job to be honest
Paul Davies?
I am not impressed to be honest
Good, he makes Drakeford look like Albert Einstein!
You don't live here, you don't have to listen to Paul Davies's incoherent ramblings day and night. The only positive in his favour is, at least he is not RT.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
Parodying yourself now?
No, just watched Death of Stalin
Me too. Michael Palin is a veritable national treasure. Wish he'd done more straight acting. And Jason Isaacs steals the show. As did Marshal Zhukov tbf.
Evidence of increased transmissibility was provided to NERVTAG and ministers on December 18.
Every person arguing on here tonight agrees more, but how much more? Enough to justify the ramping of it into serious mutant ninja chaos?
I think we are possibly running a little ahead of the known facts.
Not really, an estimate was given in the minutes of the meeting.
At the risk of adding facts to the conversation - this is R calculated from cases
Other countries will be similar.
This means that a variant that increases the effective R by 0.4 or more would mean that R would remain above 1 during a full lockdown.
Doesn't that graph upthread show that a full lockdown still suppresses in Tier 4? It's only ballooned since it was let off.
Started rising before the end, unfortunately.
Yes, but it was going down before then.
If it's been around since October then that doesn't make much sense.
Either way a full lockdown would still work you'd just have to do it in a tighter way to compensate.
Didn't it only recently become the dominant strain? Because of exponential growth you wouldn't notice it until right at the end when it balloons out of control.
Agreed on your last point.
It was supposed to already have been the dominant strain in London and parts of the South-East over a month ago, IIRC.
No, only recently.
The new strain first occurred in September in the South East, Sir Patrick said. By the middle of November, it accounted for 28 per cent of all new Covid infections in the capital, rising to 62 per cent by December 9.
This is a good stat to ask the question of. What is it actually saying to us to justify mutant ninja panic?
By December 9 it accounted for a whopping 62 percent of covid infections in the capital. Oh Jesus Christ almighty!
But what does that really mean?
It’s much more harmful than precious strain? It’s much more resistant to treatment than previous strain? It’s more easy to pick up than previous strain?
And if you say certain to the last line, rather like a sub sample in an opinion pole can give astonishing readings, is it not same that what boffins will claim will change with more data?
It means it outcompeted the other strains by a factor of 4.2 in only three weeks, going from a ratio of 28/72 to 62/38. That translates to a factor of 1.6 per week.
As it’s already on the continent, any travel bans aimed at preventing its import are rather futile. Though any travel ban tends to have at least some effect in slowing spread.
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
You voted for this nonsense apparently, so why should you worry about it?
If you consider that is a reasonable response to claims that we might have vaccine supplies cut off - no matter how idiotic they are - then you really have lost all sense of perspective. Shame on you.
Look. This guy voted, I presume, for Brexit because of the perceived benefit of getting away from the EU. Literally, why should he care what they do? Instead of which he sets up these straw man arguments to make a cheap point about those that didn't vote the way he did.
No. In case you missed it there were serious suggestions from anti-Brexiteers that the supply of vaccines could be blocked. And Dougseal on here has just said that would be understandable.
It is you who seem to be ignoring the facts here.
No - I think it would be, as I said above, at the very least a breach of contract. However I hold my hands up to did point out that if there were such a breach of contract/moral outrage we would just have to live with it as there is no enforcement mechanism we can use. Philip Thompson is fond of claiming that international law are just "guidelines". There is some truth in that.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England and has its own Senedd already, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
I just have a horrible nightmarish, feeling that one day HYUFD will be a Welsh Tory MP.
He has exactly the kind of tenuous association with Wales that Virginia Crosbie MP has -- she was borne and bred in Essex before accidentally discovering opening her atlas and discovering where Ynys Mon is.
Well one Epping Forest cllr is now the Tory candidate for Islwyn for the Senedd next year and of course we all know how close Mark Reckless and Neil Hamilton are to Wales, I believe Hamilton also went to Aber
I think he was also born in Abergavenny. I may be wrong.
Unfortunately, you are correct, he was born & bred in Wales. His father worked for the NCB is some managerial capacity.
But the name Hamilton is certainly not Welsh. Our friend wiki says:
"The name Hamilton probably originated in the village of Hamilton, Leicestershire, England, but bearers of that name became established in the 13th century in Lanarkshire, Scotland. The town of Hamilton, South Lanarkshire was named after the family some time before 1445. Contemporary Hamiltons are either descended from the original noble family, or descended from people named after the town".
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
Parodying yourself now?
No, just watched Death of Stalin
Ah. Any good?
Sensational, would strongly recommend.
On of the funniest and blackest films I have seen in years. A masterpiece of black comedy which is all the more amazing because it is basically true.
So good that various Russian trolls from the troll farms try to decry it. Insulting! The! Glorious! Soviet! Revolution!
So many good performances from brilliant actors.
Georgy Zhukov: [opens his overcoat to reveal two AK-47s strapped to his hips] All right, boys, meet your dates for tonight. Brezhnev: [points to one of the rifles] I'll take the tall blonde.
I mentioned this earlier, without any reply unless I missed it; but how has Ireland - as the centre of global pharmaceuticals by density (apparently about 100 global pharmas based there) - managed to only secure 5000 doses of covid vaccine for this year?
English Spiegel always makes me grind my teeth as a translator - I could do a much better job.
The magazine itself does tend to highlight a gloomy view of whoever is in Government. They're serious enough, but the word "could" is the usual giveaway for "Things might go well or badly, let's discuss how bad it could be".
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
I’ll pass on your patriotism/loyalty tests if that’s okay. No one has suggested such a thing and the Government claims it has contingency plans in place in case of disruption. Your anger at the side that lost when you are on the verge of getting a everything you wanted is sinister.
Scott has posted a tweet saying that our vaccine supply might be delayed because of this latest covid strain. The supply we need can happen with virtually zero risk of new strain transmission. If the EU or any constituent countries block our vaccine supply because of it, I'd consider that an act of war. I seriously doubt it could ever happen, but the tweet suggested it could.
You won. Get over it. This is what you voted for. We can’t force another country to supply us with something we don’t have. We can trade for it sure but we can’t force a supply. We can’t declare war on a NATO country (which most EU counties are) as we would automatically be at war with the whole alliance. We are also strategically outflanked by the EU to our east and west. So if something they do interrupts the supply of something they make we are just going to have to live with it. It’s life I’m afraid.
So you're defending the EU if they block our vaccine supplies.
Remainiac No. 2.
I’m not defending anyone. I’m detailing my opinion. If I’m wrong say so and explain why, You won. Be happy.
You are though saying that supplies we have ordered and paid for and that have been manufactured for us on that basis they are perfectly within their rights to block us from having despite the export not being against their own laws or eu laws. Sounds pretty much tantamount to defending a blockade for no other reason than vindictiveness to me.
Do stop sounding like the self-righteous brothers. Nobody has seriously suggested that any such thing is going to happen in a month of Sundays. Vaccines getting stuck in traffic because everything is stuck in traffic is a different matter.
When have vaccines been stuck in traffic, or when are they about to be stuck in traffic, or when will they ever be stuck in traffic?
Any such suggestion is ludicrous. They won't be travelling Calais to Dover. Or anywhere else they might be delayed. The only way they could be, from Pfizer/BioNTech, is if the EU banned their delivery.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England and has its own Senedd already, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
I just have a horrible nightmarish, feeling that one day HYUFD will be a Welsh Tory MP.
He has exactly the kind of tenuous association with Wales that Virginia Crosbie MP has -- she was borne and bred in Essex before accidentally discovering opening her atlas and discovering where Ynys Mon is.
I think it will be her one and only job in Wales. Unfortunately for HYUFD, the number of MPs is set to be reduced to 32 in Wales, so he might find the competition a bit tough.
Interesting charting of the genetic variations of the COVID virus - I don't know whether they haven't got the data, or it hasn't been published, or something else - but the UK has reported 1547 variations, the USA, 306, France 47 and Germany ("the UK strain isn't here")- 6:
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
Parodying yourself now?
No, just watched Death of Stalin
Me too. Michael Palin is a veritable national treasure. Wish he'd done more straight acting. And Jason Isaacs steals the show. As did Marshal Zhukov tbf.
“ Right, what's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?”
Does make me wonder about the value for money UK universities provide.
Thanks for the tip - sounds like an ideal watch to make the daily home gym tedium pass productively.
Any other specific recommended courses?
I did one on Roman Architecture a while back. I was married in the Yale University Catholic Chapel, St Thomas More's, and the tutor referenced the place we had our reception "Bar" as having a very authentic Roman pizza oven.
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
I’ll pass on your patriotism/loyalty tests if that’s okay. No one has suggested such a thing and the Government claims it has contingency plans in place in case of disruption. Your anger at the side that lost when you are on the verge of getting a everything you wanted is sinister.
Scott has posted a tweet saying that our vaccine supply might be delayed because of this latest covid strain. The supply we need can happen with virtually zero risk of new strain transmission. If the EU or any constituent countries block our vaccine supply because of it, I'd consider that an act of war. I seriously doubt it could ever happen, but the tweet suggested it could.
You won. Get over it. This is what you voted for. We can’t force another country to supply us with something we don’t have. We can trade for it sure but we can’t force a supply. We can’t declare war on a NATO country (which most EU counties are) as we would automatically be at war with the whole alliance. We are also strategically outflanked by the EU to our east and west. So if something they do interrupts the supply of something they make we are just going to have to live with it. It’s life I’m afraid.
So you're defending the EU if they block our vaccine supplies.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England and has its own Senedd already, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
I just have a horrible nightmarish, feeling that one day HYUFD will be a Welsh Tory MP.
He has exactly the kind of tenuous association with Wales that Virginia Crosbie MP has -- she was borne and bred in Essex before accidentally discovering opening her atlas and discovering where Ynys Mon is.
Well one Epping Forest cllr is now the Tory candidate for Islwyn for the Senedd next year and of course we all know how close Mark Reckless and Neil Hamilton are to Wales, I believe Hamilton also went to Aber
Gavin and Stacey obviously hit home with the Tory swivel eye demographic.
"Other countries may well have the variant as well, says epidemiologist William Hanage of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health; the United Kingdom may just have picked it up first because that country has the most sophisticated SARS-CoV-2 genomic monitoring in the world. Many countries have little or no sequencing."
Maybe I haven't left enough time for all the goodun's to come to the surface. But it does seem telling though that not one anti Brexit person has said they'd criticise the EU if they did block vaccine delivery. Even hypothetically.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
Parodying yourself now?
No, just watched Death of Stalin
Me too. Michael Palin is a veritable national treasure. Wish he'd done more straight acting. And Jason Isaacs steals the show. As did Marshal Zhukov tbf.
“ Right, what's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?”
I think it comes across like a historically accurate documentary. The general would have had a broad regional accent.
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
I’ll pass on your patriotism/loyalty tests if that’s okay. No one has suggested such a thing and the Government claims it has contingency plans in place in case of disruption. Your anger at the side that lost when you are on the verge of getting a everything you wanted is sinister.
Scott has posted a tweet saying that our vaccine supply might be delayed because of this latest covid strain. The supply we need can happen with virtually zero risk of new strain transmission. If the EU or any constituent countries block our vaccine supply because of it, I'd consider that an act of war. I seriously doubt it could ever happen, but the tweet suggested it could.
You won. Get over it. This is what you voted for. We can’t force another country to supply us with something we don’t have. We can trade for it sure but we can’t force a supply. We can’t declare war on a NATO country (which most EU counties are) as we would automatically be at war with the whole alliance. We are also strategically outflanked by the EU to our east and west. So if something they do interrupts the supply of something they make we are just going to have to live with it. It’s life I’m afraid.
So you're defending the EU if they block our vaccine supplies.
Remainiac No. 2.
I’m not defending anyone. I’m detailing my opinion. If I’m wrong say so and explain why, You won. Be happy.
You are though saying that supplies we have ordered and paid for and that have been manufactured for us on that basis they are perfectly within their rights to block us from having despite the export not being against their own laws or eu laws. Sounds pretty much tantamount to defending a blockade for no other reason than vindictiveness to me.
Do stop sounding like the self-righteous brothers. Nobody has seriously suggested that any such thing is going to happen in a month of Sundays. Vaccines getting stuck in traffic because everything is stuck in traffic is a different matter.
When have vaccines been stuck in traffic, or when are they about to be stuck in traffic, or when will they ever be stuck in traffic?
Any such suggestion is ludicrous. They won't be travelling Calais to Dover. Or anywhere else they might be delayed. The only way they could be, from Pfizer/BioNTech, is if the EU banned their delivery.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
Parodying yourself now?
I believe everyone not called HYUFD knows who the whinging Nat on here is.
Maybe I haven't left enough time for all the goodun's to come to the surface. But it does seem telling though that not one anti Brexit person has said they'd criticise the EU if they did block vaccine delivery. Even hypothetically.
I did. If you had read my posts properly I said they would at the very least be in breach of contract. All I did was point out there was very little wecould do about it. You need to save your energy and bile for the show trials.
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
You voted for this nonsense apparently, so why should you worry about it?
If you consider that is a reasonable response to claims that we might have vaccine supplies cut off - no matter how idiotic they are - then you really have lost all sense of perspective. Shame on you.
Look. This guy voted, I presume, for Brexit because of the perceived benefit of getting away from the EU. Literally, why should he care what they do? Instead of which he sets up these straw man arguments to make a cheap point about those that didn't vote the way he did.
No. In case you missed it there were serious suggestions from anti-Brexiteers that the supply of vaccines could be blocked. And Dougseal on here has just said that would be understandable.
It is you who seem to be ignoring the facts here.
No - I think it would be, as I said above, at the very least a breach of contract. However I hold my hands up to did point out that if there were such a breach of contract/moral outrage we would just have to live with it as there is no enforcement mechanism we can use. Philip Thompson is fond of claiming that international law are just "guidelines". There is some truth in that.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
Parodying yourself now?
No, just watched Death of Stalin
Ah. Any good?
Very funny in parts.
Brown went from Stalin to Mr Bean according to Vince Cable, perhaps this year Boris will do the reverse
"But scientists say B.1.1.7 may already be much more widespread. Dutch researchers have found it in a sample from one patient taken in early December, Dutch health minister Hugo de Jonge wrote in a letter to Parliament today. They will try to find out how the patient became infected and if there are related cases. Other countries may well have the variant as well, says epidemiologist William Hanage of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health; the United Kingdom may just have picked it up first because that country has the most sophisticated SARS-CoV-2 genomic monitoring in the world. Many countries have little or no sequencing."
The price of honesty. This mutation is all over Europe already, they just don't know it yet. Countries need a severe lockdown now and to close all borders immediately. Everyone going home for Christmas with this variant out there is going to end in disaster for the whole of Europe.
the United Kingdom may just have picked it up first because that country has the most sophisticated SARS-CoV-2 genomic monitoring in the world. Many countries have little or no sequencing.
Which would explain why the U.K. has reported 86% of European sequences. Sure you haven’t got it Germany? How would you know?
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
I’ll pass on your patriotism/loyalty tests if that’s okay. No one has suggested such a thing and the Government claims it has contingency plans in place in case of disruption. Your anger at the side that lost when you are on the verge of getting a everything you wanted is sinister.
Scott has posted a tweet saying that our vaccine supply might be delayed because of this latest covid strain. The supply we need can happen with virtually zero risk of new strain transmission. If the EU or any constituent countries block our vaccine supply because of it, I'd consider that an act of war. I seriously doubt it could ever happen, but the tweet suggested it could.
You won. Get over it. This is what you voted for. We can’t force another country to supply us with something we don’t have. We can trade for it sure but we can’t force a supply. We can’t declare war on a NATO country (which most EU counties are) as we would automatically be at war with the whole alliance. We are also strategically outflanked by the EU to our east and west. So if something they do interrupts the supply of something they make we are just going to have to live with it. It’s life I’m afraid.
So you're defending the EU if they block our vaccine supplies.
Remainiac No. 2.
They've specifically exempted vaccine supplies.
I thought they would, which is why I said about blocking it that "I seriously doubt it could ever happen", but it's certainly been implied that it could. And people insinuating that our vaccines supplies are at threat for political reasons should definitely STFU
Maybe I haven't left enough time for all the goodun's to come to the surface. But it does seem telling though that not one anti Brexit person has said they'd criticise the EU if they did block vaccine delivery. Even hypothetically.
I did. If you had read my posts properly I said they would at the very least be in breach of contract. All I did was point out there was very little wecould do about it. You need to save your energy and bile for the show trials.
Sorry for missing that. You did read like you were blaming us more than them in the round, even if they blocked our vaccines.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
Parodying yourself now?
No, just watched Death of Stalin
Me too. Michael Palin is a veritable national treasure. Wish he'd done more straight acting. And Jason Isaacs steals the show. As did Marshal Zhukov tbf.
“ Right, what's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?”
I think it comes across like a historically accurate documentary. The general would have had a broad regional accent.
That whole performance from Jason Isaacs is just superb.
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
Parodying yourself now?
No, just watched Death of Stalin
Me too. Michael Palin is a veritable national treasure. Wish he'd done more straight acting. And Jason Isaacs steals the show. As did Marshal Zhukov tbf.
“ Right, what's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?”
"I fucked Germany, I think I can take a fleshlump in a fucking waistcoat."
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
Parodying yourself now?
No, just watched Death of Stalin
Ah. Any good?
One of the few recent films during which I did laugh out loud, as opposed to just saying it was lol funny.
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
I’ll pass on your patriotism/loyalty tests if that’s okay. No one has suggested such a thing and the Government claims it has contingency plans in place in case of disruption. Your anger at the side that lost when you are on the verge of getting a everything you wanted is sinister.
Scott has posted a tweet saying that our vaccine supply might be delayed because of this latest covid strain. The supply we need can happen with virtually zero risk of new strain transmission. If the EU or any constituent countries block our vaccine supply because of it, I'd consider that an act of war. I seriously doubt it could ever happen, but the tweet suggested it could.
You won. Get over it. This is what you voted for. We can’t force another country to supply us with something we don’t have. We can trade for it sure but we can’t force a supply. We can’t declare war on a NATO country (which most EU counties are) as we would automatically be at war with the whole alliance. We are also strategically outflanked by the EU to our east and west. So if something they do interrupts the supply of something they make we are just going to have to live with it. It’s life I’m afraid.
So you're defending the EU if they block our vaccine supplies.
Remainiac No. 2.
They've specifically exempted vaccine supplies.
I thought they would, which is why I said about blocking it that "I seriously doubt it could ever happen", but it's certainly been implied that it could. And people insinuating that our vaccines supplies are at threat for political reasons should definitely STFU
Surely the hypothetical is that supply could be affected for logistical reasons, not political reasons.
Maybe I haven't left enough time for all the goodun's to come to the surface. But it does seem telling though that not one anti Brexit person has said they'd criticise the EU if they did block vaccine delivery. Even hypothetically.
I do. It would be immoral as well as self-defeating. Brexit is fundamentally a damn fool idea regardless.
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
I’ll pass on your patriotism/loyalty tests if that’s okay. No one has suggested such a thing and the Government claims it has contingency plans in place in case of disruption. Your anger at the side that lost when you are on the verge of getting a everything you wanted is sinister.
Scott has posted a tweet saying that our vaccine supply might be delayed because of this latest covid strain. The supply we need can happen with virtually zero risk of new strain transmission. If the EU or any constituent countries block our vaccine supply because of it, I'd consider that an act of war. I seriously doubt it could ever happen, but the tweet suggested it could.
You won. Get over it. This is what you voted for. We can’t force another country to supply us with something we don’t have. We can trade for it sure but we can’t force a supply. We can’t declare war on a NATO country (which most EU counties are) as we would automatically be at war with the whole alliance. We are also strategically outflanked by the EU to our east and west. So if something they do interrupts the supply of something they make we are just going to have to live with it. It’s life I’m afraid.
So you're defending the EU if they block our vaccine supplies.
Remainiac No. 2.
They've specifically exempted vaccine supplies.
I thought they would, which is why I said about blocking it that "I seriously doubt it could ever happen", but it's certainly been implied that it could. And people insinuating that our vaccines supplies are at threat for political reasons should definitely STFU
Surely the hypothetical is that supply could be affected for logistical reasons, not political reasons.
No, the logistics are being handled by the RAF with the consent of the Belgian government. It would be a political decision to rescind that consent and basically blow up UK/EU relations for good.
If you have a prime account they have a 2 episode (hour each) on the secrets of quantum physics that I quite enjoyed. If you like science that is
A couple of years ago I did a course from Stanford on Reservoir Geomechanics which is one of my areas of expertise as a consultant. The course was looking at the theoretical maths behind the practical applications and was absolutely brilliant - if a little taxing on the maths front.
I later did one of their course on Nuclear terrorism for a bit of fun and it was fascinating if somewhat terrifying. It was run by Dr William Perry who was Clinton's Secretary of Defence.
If you have a prime account they have a 2 episode (hour each) on the secrets of quantum physics that I quite enjoyed. If you like science that is
A couple of years ago I did a course from Stanford on Reservoir Geomechanics which is one of my areas of expertise as a consultant. The course was looking at the theoretical maths behind the practical applications and was absolutely brilliant - if a little taxing on the maths front.
I later did one of their course on Nuclear terrorism for a bit of fun and it was fascinating if somewhat terrifying. It was run by Dr William Perry who was Clinton's Secretary of Defence.
Hmmm not sure I would want to google the latter in case it was misunderstood
Maybe I haven't left enough time for all the goodun's to come to the surface. But it does seem telling though that not one anti Brexit person has said they'd criticise the EU if they did block vaccine delivery. Even hypothetically.
That's not going to be a political decision. If it occurs it'll be a logistics SNAFU.
If you have a prime account they have a 2 episode (hour each) on the secrets of quantum physics that I quite enjoyed. If you like science that is
A couple of years ago I did a course from Stanford on Reservoir Geomechanics which is one of my areas of expertise as a consultant. The course was looking at the theoretical maths behind the practical applications and was absolutely brilliant - if a little taxing on the maths front.
I later did one of their course on Nuclear terrorism for a bit of fun and it was fascinating if somewhat terrifying. It was run by Dr William Perry who was Clinton's Secretary of Defence.
Hmmm not sure I would want to google the latter in case it was misunderstood
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
I’ll pass on your patriotism/loyalty tests if that’s okay. No one has suggested such a thing and the Government claims it has contingency plans in place in case of disruption. Your anger at the side that lost when you are on the verge of getting a everything you wanted is sinister.
Scott has posted a tweet saying that our vaccine supply might be delayed because of this latest covid strain. The supply we need can happen with virtually zero risk of new strain transmission. If the EU or any constituent countries block our vaccine supply because of it, I'd consider that an act of war. I seriously doubt it could ever happen, but the tweet suggested it could.
You won. Get over it. This is what you voted for. We can’t force another country to supply us with something we don’t have. We can trade for it sure but we can’t force a supply. We can’t declare war on a NATO country (which most EU counties are) as we would automatically be at war with the whole alliance. We are also strategically outflanked by the EU to our east and west. So if something they do interrupts the supply of something they make we are just going to have to live with it. It’s life I’m afraid.
So you're defending the EU if they block our vaccine supplies.
Remainiac No. 2.
They've specifically exempted vaccine supplies.
I thought they would, which is why I said about blocking it that "I seriously doubt it could ever happen", but it's certainly been implied that it could. And people insinuating that our vaccines supplies are at threat for political reasons should definitely STFU
Surely the hypothetical is that supply could be affected for logistical reasons, not political reasons.
Where do you think the supply might be slowed, between us and the EU?
If you have a prime account they have a 2 episode (hour each) on the secrets of quantum physics that I quite enjoyed. If you like science that is
A couple of years ago I did a course from Stanford on Reservoir Geomechanics which is one of my areas of expertise as a consultant. The course was looking at the theoretical maths behind the practical applications and was absolutely brilliant - if a little taxing on the maths front.
I later did one of their course on Nuclear terrorism for a bit of fun and it was fascinating if somewhat terrifying. It was run by Dr William Perry who was Clinton's Secretary of Defence.
Hmmm not sure I would want to google the latter in case it was misunderstood
In March a lot of European countries had large numbers of Covid-19 cases when we had hardly any cases, but we didn't stop flights from those places — like Milan for example. I'm not sure why we didn't stop those flights at the time, but if the reason was that we were somehow hoping that if the situation was reversed they would do the same thing we were wrong. I remember a report from March of someone from Italy arriving at Heathrow from Milan and being utterly baffled that there were no checks at all on the passengers on his flight despite the fact that the Milan area was the European epicentre of the epidemic at that time. When the situation is reversed they quite rightly do the correct thing and stop all travel from the UK, but it goes to show how stupid we were in March and April.
In March a lot of European countries had large numbers of Covid-19 cases when we had hardly any cases, but we didn't stop flights from those places — like Milan for example. I'm not sure why we didn't stop those flights at the time, but if the reason was that we were somehow hoping that if the situation was reversed they would do the same thing we were wrong. I remember a report from March of someone from Italy arriving at Heathrow from Milan and being utterly baffled that there were no checks at all on the passengers on his flight despite the fact that the Milan area was the European epicentre of the epidemic at that time. When the situation is reversed they quite rightly do the correct thing and stop all travel from the UK.
Because we had a government too scared about people in the media whinging about their curtailed skiing trips
If someone had told you a year ago that we would be where we are now you would not have believed them, but if they had proven it you would have panicked. The economy wrecked and getting worse, a mutant killer virus loose, Brexit still unsigned. But instead today we just shrug. Strange days.
I do not think many of us just shrug
This is by far the worst crisis since the war with threat to life, health and the economy
The way out will be long and complex and will test all politicians for years to come
I am genuinely upset and want to see a deal with the EU and I would like Boris to invite a GONU to include Starmer and Sturgeon
We are far too divided and we need to come together across the political divide
Maybe hope over expectation but there is nothing wrong in hope
Say something supportive of Drakeford.
Drakeford's all right -- he has a dusty, woebegone, academic charm about him & his spoken Welsh is truly excellent.
The reason why Drakeford seems to get a lot of criticism on this blog is because --- this blog teems with English Labour Party supporters busy telling us that all would be better under a Labour Govt, and that doesn't seem to accord with the reality in Wales.
COVID is an example. Johnson messed up. But, then so did Drakeford.
I have some sympathy with them both -- these are gruesome times.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't. However, the results speak for themselves.
I don't believe one can extrapolate a Westminster Labour Government's potential performance from Mark Drakeford either
The last sentence is true. SKS is not Drakeford, and extrapolation is not entirely fair.
However, if the Labour Party wants to demonstrate it can run things well, then it has a golden opportunity to show us by running Wales well.
Unhappily, I agree with YDoethur's assessment the other day.
YDoethur wrote: "Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism and a fragile, unstable economy."
It is hard not to blame Labour for some of that, given a generation has passed and Labour have been continuously in power in Cardiff. And for over ten years of that time, Labour were also in power in Westminster.
To be clear, I want to see Wales prosper. I'd vote for any party that convinced me they could make Wales prosper.
It cannot prosper, or be judged correctly, with one hand tied behind it's back by Westminster. Whatever party were in power would have the same problem.
Then we must free Wales' hand.
Wales voted Leave just like England, I am sick to death of whinging Nats trying to wreck our country, it is time Boris slapped them down with an iron fist!!
Parodying yourself now?
No, just watched Death of Stalin
Me too. Michael Palin is a veritable national treasure. Wish he'd done more straight acting. And Jason Isaacs steals the show. As did Marshal Zhukov tbf.
“ Right, what's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?”
I think it comes across like a historically accurate documentary. The general would have had a broad regional accent.
That whole performance from Jason Isaacs is just superb.
In March a lot of European countries had large numbers of Covid-19 cases when we had hardly any cases, but we didn't stop flights from those places — like Milan for example. I'm not sure why we didn't stop those flights at the time, but if the reason was that we were somehow hoping that if the situation was reversed they would do the same thing we were wrong. I remember a report from March of someone from Italy arriving at Heathrow from Milan and being utterly baffled that there were no checks at all on the passengers on his flight despite the fact that the Milan area was the European epicentre of the epidemic at that time. When the situation is reversed they quite rightly do the correct thing and stop all travel from the UK.
The UK establishment is more interested in flying to Milan than driving to Mansfield.
In March a lot of European countries had large numbers of Covid-19 cases when we had hardly any cases, but we didn't stop flights from those places — like Milan for example. I'm not sure why we didn't stop those flights at the time, but if the reason was that we were somehow hoping that if the situation was reversed they would do the same thing we were wrong. I remember a report from March of someone from Italy arriving at Heathrow from Milan and being utterly baffled that there were no checks at all on the passengers on his flight despite the fact that the Milan area was the European epicentre of the epidemic at that time. When the situation is reversed they quite rightly do the correct thing and stop all travel from the UK, but it goes to show how stupid we were in March and April.
Grant Shapps has been the absolute worst this pandemic.
Maybe I haven't left enough time for all the goodun's to come to the surface. But it does seem telling though that not one anti Brexit person has said they'd criticise the EU if they did block vaccine delivery. Even hypothetically.
That's not going to be a political decision. If it occurs it'll be a logistics SNAFU.
Oh, I doubt that there'll be any vaccine delay. But it has been tweet-threatened on here by tweet-president ScottP. I wouldn't normally get so worked up by something so small ( except 61 seconds being minutes, 61 minutes being hours, 25 hours being days, 8 days being weeks, 32 days (or 29?) being months or 13 months being years), but just occasionally I get into fighting a narrow point!
In March a lot of European countries had large numbers of Covid-19 cases when we had hardly any cases, but we didn't stop flights from those places — like Milan for example. I'm not sure why we didn't stop those flights at the time, but if the reason was that we were somehow hoping that if the situation was reversed they would do the same thing we were wrong. I remember a report from March of someone from Italy arriving at Heathrow from Milan and being utterly baffled that there were no checks at all on the passengers on his flight despite the fact that the Milan area was the European epicentre of the epidemic at that time. When the situation is reversed they quite rightly do the correct thing and stop all travel from the UK, but it goes to show how stupid we were in March and April.
If this finally gets the airports closed down, and a moratorium on all the unnecessary air travel, it is a very good thing.
I think in March 2020, the brainless pb.com skiing community were heading out for their skiing holidays.
I definitely remember one Weapons Grade Idiot bragging about it on pb.com at the time.
Are any of the antiBrexiters here antiBrexit and brave enough to say that we deserve it for leaving the EU if the EU decides to block our vaccine supplies?
Or any sensible enough to say that they'd be furious at the EU for that kind of idiocy, however they feel about Brexit?
I’ll pass on your patriotism/loyalty tests if that’s okay. No one has suggested such a thing and the Government claims it has contingency plans in place in case of disruption. Your anger at the side that lost when you are on the verge of getting a everything you wanted is sinister.
Scott has posted a tweet saying that our vaccine supply might be delayed because of this latest covid strain. The supply we need can happen with virtually zero risk of new strain transmission. If the EU or any constituent countries block our vaccine supply because of it, I'd consider that an act of war. I seriously doubt it could ever happen, but the tweet suggested it could.
You won. Get over it. This is what you voted for. We can’t force another country to supply us with something we don’t have. We can trade for it sure but we can’t force a supply. We can’t declare war on a NATO country (which most EU counties are) as we would automatically be at war with the whole alliance. We are also strategically outflanked by the EU to our east and west. So if something they do interrupts the supply of something they make we are just going to have to live with it. It’s life I’m afraid.
So you're defending the EU if they block our vaccine supplies.
Remainiac No. 2.
They've specifically exempted vaccine supplies.
I thought they would, which is why I said about blocking it that "I seriously doubt it could ever happen", but it's certainly been implied that it could. And people insinuating that our vaccines supplies are at threat for political reasons should definitely STFU
Surely the hypothetical is that supply could be affected for logistical reasons, not political reasons.
Where do you think the supply might be slowed, between us and the EU?
What if there are problems supplying the factories and they can't manufacture enough doses?
If you have a prime account they have a 2 episode (hour each) on the secrets of quantum physics that I quite enjoyed. If you like science that is
A couple of years ago I did a course from Stanford on Reservoir Geomechanics which is one of my areas of expertise as a consultant. The course was looking at the theoretical maths behind the practical applications and was absolutely brilliant - if a little taxing on the maths front.
I later did one of their course on Nuclear terrorism for a bit of fun and it was fascinating if somewhat terrifying. It was run by Dr William Perry who was Clinton's Secretary of Defence.
Hmmm not sure I would want to google the latter in case it was misunderstood
Comments
There's basically no value in honesty.
By December 9 it accounted for a whopping 62 percent of covid infections in the capital. Oh Jesus Christ almighty!
But what does that really mean?
It’s much more harmful than precious strain?
It’s much more resistant to treatment than previous strain?
It’s more easy to pick up than previous strain?
And if you say certain to the last line, rather like a sub sample in an opinion pole can give astonishing readings, is it not same that what boffins will claim will change with more data?
Brown went from Stalin to Mr Bean according to Vince Cable, perhaps this year Boris will do the reverse
https://theloadstar.com/other-uk-ports-could-relieve-pressure-on-the-channel-but-dover-can-handle-it/
It is you who seem to be ignoring the facts here.
Go to a supermarket and witness for yourself. The more tills open the less the queue at each
He has exactly the kind of tenuous association with Wales that Virginia Crosbie MP has -- she was borne and bred in Essex before accidentally discovering opening her atlas and discovering where Ynys Mon is.
No tired, sclerotic, business as usual, same old, same old in the sunlit uplands!
The problem is to answer them -- and especially with the confidence that you feel you need -- we would have to spend 3 months in intensive laboratory work.
No contest: we are seeing the shambles Mr. Boris Bean is making of it but at least we can criticise. No such chance under Uncle Joe.
Any such suggestion is ludicrous. They won't be travelling Calais to Dover. Or anywhere else they might be delayed. The only way they could be, from Pfizer/BioNTech, is if the EU banned their delivery.
Any defence of that really is treason.
And Jason Isaacs steals the show. As did Marshal Zhukov tbf.
Any other specific recommended courses?
https://twitter.com/alexandraphelan/status/1340805798847504390
But the name Hamilton is certainly not Welsh. Our friend wiki says:
"The name Hamilton probably originated in the village of Hamilton, Leicestershire, England, but bearers of that name became established in the 13th century in Lanarkshire, Scotland. The town of Hamilton, South Lanarkshire was named after the family some time before 1445. Contemporary Hamiltons are either descended from the original noble family, or descended from people named after the town".
So many good performances from brilliant actors.
Georgy Zhukov: [opens his overcoat to reveal two AK-47s strapped to his hips] All right, boys, meet your dates for tonight.
Brezhnev: [points to one of the rifles] I'll take the tall blonde.
The magazine itself does tend to highlight a gloomy view of whoever is in Government. They're serious enough, but the word "could" is the usual giveaway for "Things might go well or badly, let's discuss how bad it could be".
Unfortunately for HYUFD, the number of MPs is set to be reduced to 32 in Wales, so he might find the competition a bit tough.
Or
The government u turn was driven by scientists and politicians desperate for the u turn. But how desperate?
They are quite a bit further down the track of the prizes-for-all-at-a-long-long-price degree mills, after all.
"Other countries may well have the variant as well, says epidemiologist William Hanage of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health; the United Kingdom may just have picked it up first because that country has the most sophisticated SARS-CoV-2 genomic monitoring in the world. Many countries have little or no sequencing."
https://www.youtube.com/user/YaleCourses/playlists
I enjoyed this one - 'The Early Middle Ages, 284-1000'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC8JcWVRFp8&list=PL77A337915A76F660
The price of honesty. This mutation is all over Europe already, they just don't know it yet. Countries need a severe lockdown now and to close all borders immediately. Everyone going home for Christmas with this variant out there is going to end in disaster for the whole of Europe.
Which would explain why the U.K. has reported 86% of European sequences. Sure you haven’t got it Germany? How would you know?
https://twitter.com/SebGorka/status/1340806199537754112?s=20
Brexit is fundamentally a damn fool idea regardless.
I later did one of their course on Nuclear terrorism for a bit of fun and it was fascinating if somewhat terrifying. It was run by Dr William Perry who was Clinton's Secretary of Defence.
https://twitter.com/NYDailyNews/status/1340781679108120579?s=20
https://online.stanford.edu/courses/fsi-y0001-threat-nuclear-terrorism
I think in March 2020, the brainless pb.com skiing community were heading out for their skiing holidays.
I definitely remember one Weapons Grade Idiot bragging about it on pb.com at the time.