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In a Tweet how Johnson’s handling of the Christmas lockdown exposes his big weakness – politicalbett

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Comments

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    gealbhan said:

    RobD said:

    gealbhan said:

    All countries politicians wanted as normal as possible Christmas. But their lockdowns varied widely in timings and type, even in UK Wales were coming out of lockdown as England entered one. But the attempt to do it, the shopping, the moving around, was the wrong call in the covid winter.

    When UK government placed the blame for their U turn on the mutant virus spreading from the south east across the Nation, should they have anticipated and planned for the rest of the worlds reaction in sealing us off as pariah state?

    Or, it is actually a real new strain and the reactions are justified?
    The countries putting a ban on us are caveating it with “our scientists aren’t as sure as the British government are that the new strain is as bad as that, but we can’t take the chance... blockade!”

    My point is, that’s also what the British scientists and politicians said. Identically. For internal consumption. It was blown up into this crisis by over the top reporting of the British media.

    new strain is virulent or not, it doesn’t matter to the question, should the UK government have anticipated the international reaction of governments also stamped down sooner on the over blown media reporting of their announcement?
    You make it sound as though there is a serious doubt whether or not it is more virulent. The minutes suggest they are reasonably confident it is. So confident that some have gone on the record to say so. As for European governments not believing it, I think that's just shit stirring.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    alex_ said:

    Er - but i thought there had been no testing of the vaccine on school age children? How could it possibly pass safety authorisation?
    Also the minor point about the lack of evidence that it stops transmission.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713

    Are we about to go all @eadric ?

    Well, this from Scotland might do:

    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1340742255221624833?s=19
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    alex_ said:

    tlg86 said:

    COBRA meeting tomorrow.

    I just find it astonishing nobody appears to have foreseen the possibility of this happening. Especially as it has been a fundamental risk throughout of Brexit that we would have far less legal protection viz potential closure of the border.
    Not really. Multiple European countries (including the UK) exercised the same emergency powers to close the border with Denmark earlier this year. Countries are justifiably doing so, my main issue is that they're not doing it properly and allowing the borders to the Netherlands, Denmark and Germany stay open where this is also definitely present. Mealy mouthed words like "not found it yet" from Germany aren't exactly reassuring given that they won't have been looking for it until this morning.
  • So somebody was right, afraid can't remember who, no deal this year but they keep talking
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001

    For me personally, I'm not too worried about a temporary fresh food shortage.

    Not a clue...

    https://twitter.com/Torcuil/status/1340767936550723584
  • alex_ said:

    Have the Government announced what's happening with universities post Christmas yet...?

    Not yet, but my overseas students have already been in touch asking what they should do...

    (I think they should stay at home. My vice chancellor might think otherwise.)

    --AS
  • So in defence of their idiotic policy that schools must be kept open no matter what the public health risk, they are proposing giving teenagers a vaccine which is not supposed to be given to teenagers because it hasn't been tested on them.

    Sorry but these guys have gone be fucking morons to dangerous fucking morons.

    And for clarity, I will be taking the vaccine the minute I am able and urge everyone in groups it has been tested on to do the same.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218

    DougSeal said:

    Can I briefly play Devil’s Advocate for Scott? NERVTAG are most certainly not lying and they have come up with a solid paper based on the evidence available - but what the Government do with the findings therein is out of their hands. I post below a link to the minutes of their meeting on Thursday which comes up with very few definitive answers. The finding that NERVTAG have “moderate” confidence that the new variant demonstrates a substantial increase in transmissibility is not the “definitive proof” some on here portray it as. That conclusion is understandable as it was reached as a result of “Studies of correlation between R-values and detection of the variant: which suggest an absolute increase in the R-value of between 0.39 to 0.93.” I’m no scientist but I see the truism that a correlation does not mean causation all the time. It often does I admit.

    The decision last night, made for whatever reason, was belatedly the right one, but I don’t think a pile on on Scott over reposting that Tweet is justified.

    https://khub.net/documents/135939561/338928724/SARS-CoV-2+variant+under+investigation%2C+meeting+minutes.pdf/962e866b-161f-2fd5-1030-32b6ab467896?t=1608470511452

    The scientists are not Tories. Most of the ones I know on SAGE vote Labour or Lib Dem. They are trying to help the country.

    If the scientists felt that Boris was misrepresenting the data, they would say so. They would have everything to lose if they stood by, silent, while their data was misused.

    If scientists on SAGE or on NERVTAG saw their data being misrepresented or misused for political purposes, they would be screaming to the heavens, loud and clear.

    They are not saying so.

    For this conspiracy to be true, the scientists would have to be in on it. But, there is no way scientist would do this, because they know they would be found out very quickly by others and their career and reputation would be irreparably damaged.

    Scott (who has no scientific training) retweeted an irresponsible claim by a single Belgian scientist. If Donald Trump tweeted some conspiracy theory rubbish, you would call him out.

    We're calling Scott out. He is encouraging the dispersal of fake news. He is propagating conspiracy theories. He is damaging the reputation of Government scientists --- who are not the same as the Government.
    This needed saying
    The eadric construct posts a ton of lurid conspiracy theories from the alt-right twittersphere that are far more pernicious than this.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:
    I don't really get the importance of the European Parliament in all this, since doesn't any deal ultimately have to be ratified by all member states internally?
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    WHY ARE WE NOT CLOSING OUR BORDERS. WHY.

    Its taken you nine months to ask that.

    And the answer is that the UK establishment is filled by globalist sociopaths and foreign holiday obsessives.
    No I asked it months ago.
    Plenty from here justified their foreign holidays during the summer. As I said lockdown is sensible for other people that can't be trusted but its alright for me to bend rules because I will be sensible is the common attitude,

    Its why I treat polls saying 80% or whatever support lockdown with contempt. You would get similar polls for all that test positive to isolate however as we saw when push came to shove only 20% actually did.
    I didn't go anywhere, not everyone did.
    I wasn't pointing at you, I was more pointing out that on here people believe they are intelligent and not lacking in common sense yet still we had plenty not using intelligence and common sense and going on foreign holidays because for some magical hand wavey bollocks they wouldnt catch the pox. Plenty on here have already booked their march ski holidays
    Apologies, I didn't mean to make it seem like I was having a go at you.

    Anyone who went on holidays abroad this year is a twat quite frankly.
    If you go to a country that has the same or less risk for covid, and follow social distancing guidelines, you should be no more likely to bring it back to the UK than catch it here. Less so, in fact.

    I went to the Netherlands at the end of July and did just that

    I can only assume that most people behave like twats when they are on holiday.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Cannabis is easy enough to grow.

    The tweet doesn't seem to match up either as according to this the uk is a major grower and exporter of medicinal cannabis
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44197038
    They could ask my upstairs neighbour.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,697
    When Scott_xP and HYUFD post the same tweet, you know it's serious.
  • Scott_xP said:

    For me personally, I'm not too worried about a temporary fresh food shortage.

    Not a clue...

    https://twitter.com/Torcuil/status/1340767936550723584
    That won't affect me personally. In my shopping choices. As I said in the bit of my post that you thought not worth being undeleted.

    Remainiac No. 1...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218
    alex_ said:

    Anyway, on a lighter note, I'm not watching it (haven't for years) but is anyone watching SPOTY who can tell us how the BBC are managing the Tyson Fury nomination? Given that he told them in no uncertain terms he had no interest in it, and, inexplicably, they refused to then take him off the shortlist?

    They've featured him but said that he does not want any votes.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    MaxPB said:

    Definitely a lot of overcompensation and finger pointing from the Netherlands where it's very obvious that the same mutation is present and causing as serious an outbreak. I'm guessing they think if they point the finger at the UK the rest of Europe will ignore them. It might just work, but it will be a disaster because it gives the mutant strain multiple opportunities to spread across the whole continent and then everyone is fucked.

    The UK has at least got a very strong vaccine portfolio and could see the back of this by the middle of April. Not sure how European countries will handle this given the weak vaccine portfolio.

    Instead of pointing fingers they need to shut down all borders in Europe for air, road and sea travel and start investing in vaccine production.

    tlg86 said:

    COBRA meeting tomorrow.

    “ and causing as serious an outbreak. “. You got evidence supporting that statement?

    You are pushing a narrative that the surge everywhere is down to mutant virus more than any other reason. And you are pushing it without evidence. And that narrative is causing alarm and disaster.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pagan2 said:

    Cannabis is easy enough to grow.

    The tweet doesn't seem to match up either as according to this the uk is a major grower and exporter of medicinal cannabis
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44197038
    I would expect the child in that photograph to be able to understand that "Cannabis is easy enough to grow" is not an answer to a shortage of cannabis-based pharmaceuticals (not the pharmaceuticals mentioned in your link) kicking in in less than two weeks. What was that about people not using intelligence and common sense?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218
    MaxPB said:

    Definitely a lot of overcompensation and finger pointing from the Netherlands where it's very obvious that the same mutation is present and causing as serious an outbreak. I'm guessing they think if they point the finger at the UK the rest of Europe will ignore them. It might just work, but it will be a disaster because it gives the mutant strain multiple opportunities to spread across the whole continent and then everyone is fucked.

    The UK has at least got a very strong vaccine portfolio and could see the back of this by the middle of April. Not sure how European countries will handle this given the weak vaccine portfolio.

    Instead of pointing fingers they need to shut down all borders in Europe for air, road and sea travel and start investing in vaccine production.

    Are they painting us as the Wuhan on this one?
  • Pagan2 said:

    Cannabis is easy enough to grow.

    The tweet doesn't seem to match up either as according to this the uk is a major grower and exporter of medicinal cannabis
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44197038
    They could ask my upstairs neighbour.
    Doesn't it need a little pharmaceutical processing before giving it to kids?!
  • Is anyone here actually celebrating No Deal
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882
    Pagan2 said:

    Cannabis is easy enough to grow.

    The tweet doesn't seem to match up either as according to this the uk is a major grower and exporter of medicinal cannabis
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44197038
    Not everyone wants to be a police target. Especially if they are known to have children with the relevant condition. And have jobs which they would lose with a criminal record.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited December 2020
    .. "The next Great Conjunction on December 21, 2020 kicks off a new cycle. Accordingly, some astrologers are referring to this cosmic event as "the Great Mutation", because it marks the official change after 200 years from earth to air." ..
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Definitely a lot of overcompensation and finger pointing from the Netherlands where it's very obvious that the same mutation is present and causing as serious an outbreak. I'm guessing they think if they point the finger at the UK the rest of Europe will ignore them. It might just work, but it will be a disaster because it gives the mutant strain multiple opportunities to spread across the whole continent and then everyone is fucked.

    The UK has at least got a very strong vaccine portfolio and could see the back of this by the middle of April. Not sure how European countries will handle this given the weak vaccine portfolio.

    Instead of pointing fingers they need to shut down all borders in Europe for air, road and sea travel and start investing in vaccine production.

    Are they painting us as the Wuhan on this one?
    I think so, definitely repeating the mistakes of January to March.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Can I briefly play Devil’s Advocate for Scott? NERVTAG are most certainly not lying and they have come up with a solid paper based on the evidence available - but what the Government do with the findings therein is out of their hands. I post below a link to the minutes of their meeting on Thursday which comes up with very few definitive answers. The finding that NERVTAG have “moderate” confidence that the new variant demonstrates a substantial increase in transmissibility is not the “definitive proof” some on here portray it as. That conclusion is understandable as it was reached as a result of “Studies of correlation between R-values and detection of the variant: which suggest an absolute increase in the R-value of between 0.39 to 0.93.” I’m no scientist but I see the truism that a correlation does not mean causation all the time. It often does I admit.

    The decision last night, made for whatever reason, was belatedly the right one, but I don’t think a pile on on Scott over reposting that Tweet is justified.

    https://khub.net/documents/135939561/338928724/SARS-CoV-2+variant+under+investigation%2C+meeting+minutes.pdf/962e866b-161f-2fd5-1030-32b6ab467896?t=1608470511452

    The scientists are not Tories. Most of the ones I know on SAGE vote Labour or Lib Dem. They are trying to help the country.

    If the scientists felt that Boris was misrepresenting the data, they would say so. They would have everything to lose if they stood by, silent, while their data was misused.

    If scientists on SAGE or on NERVTAG saw their data being misrepresented or misused for political purposes, they would be screaming to the heavens, loud and clear.

    They are not saying so.

    For this conspiracy to be true, the scientists would have to be in on it. But, there is no way scientist would do this, because they know they would be found out very quickly by others and their career and reputation would be irreparably damaged.

    Scott (who has no scientific training) retweeted an irresponsible claim by a single Belgian scientist. If Donald Trump tweeted some conspiracy theory rubbish, you would call him out.

    We're calling Scott out. He is encouraging the dispersal of fake news. He is propagating conspiracy theories. He is damaging the reputation of Government scientists --- who are not the same as the Government.
    This needed saying
    The eadric construct posts a ton of lurid conspiracy theories from the alt-right twittersphere that are far more pernicious than this.
    But this isn't a conspiracy theory. The new strain is both as real as the scientists say it is, and a jolly handy figleaf for Johnson.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Cannabis is easy enough to grow.

    The tweet doesn't seem to match up either as according to this the uk is a major grower and exporter of medicinal cannabis
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44197038
    I would expect the child in that photograph to be able to understand that "Cannabis is easy enough to grow" is not an answer to a shortage of cannabis-based pharmaceuticals (not the pharmaceuticals mentioned in your link) kicking in in less than two weeks. What was that about people not using intelligence and common sense?
    Did you read the article I posted?
    quote
    Cannabis is also being grown legally in the UK for another medicine, Epidiolex. It's currently being reviewed for the treatment of two rare forms of uncontrollable epilepsy

    Besides which if the cannabis is being grown it can be used to make other medicines as well even if we don't currently but sounds to me like we already make the medicine for epileptics. Before commenting on my common sense and intelligence you might consider learning to read the article
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Scott_xP said:
    France are going to lift the blockade? Or just for their people? Not sure
    We should be particularly helpful if it’s the latter.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    Definitely a jinx, needs sorting.

    Anyone have a giant Wicker Man hanging about?
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Foxy said:

    Are we about to go all @eadric ?

    Well, this from Scotland might do:

    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1340742255221624833?s=19
    Dr Doom would have said this message even without a mutant to hide behind. Indeed she was!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882

    HYUFD said:

    Will be interesting to see exactly how he wants to screw over England.
    I imagine he will announce devomax for Holyrood and Scotland under a future Labour led government and regional assemblies for England
    Devomax for English regions too? And will we get to choose our regions? England will continue to effectively be a directly-governed territory of the UK.
    Quite. We discussed all that back in 2013-14 and conclujded, amicably, thjat it just isn't a runner without persisting massive anomalies.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,128
    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:
    I don't really get the importance of the European Parliament in all this, since doesn't any deal ultimately have to be ratified by all member states internally?
    As well
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Looking forward to Mr Blue’s spin on that one.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    I don't know about anybody else but I can't cope with all this shit anymore.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    gealbhan said:

    MaxPB said:

    Definitely a lot of overcompensation and finger pointing from the Netherlands where it's very obvious that the same mutation is present and causing as serious an outbreak. I'm guessing they think if they point the finger at the UK the rest of Europe will ignore them. It might just work, but it will be a disaster because it gives the mutant strain multiple opportunities to spread across the whole continent and then everyone is fucked.

    The UK has at least got a very strong vaccine portfolio and could see the back of this by the middle of April. Not sure how European countries will handle this given the weak vaccine portfolio.

    Instead of pointing fingers they need to shut down all borders in Europe for air, road and sea travel and start investing in vaccine production.

    tlg86 said:

    COBRA meeting tomorrow.

    “ and causing as serious an outbreak. “. You got evidence supporting that statement?

    You are pushing a narrative that the surge everywhere is down to mutant virus more than any other reason. And you are pushing it without evidence. And that narrative is causing alarm and disaster.
    Or, the scientists aren't lying and Europrean countries are taking fair precautions against more of the new strain getting in knowing that this is a huge travel period for young people in London travelling home to their countries. Your narrative of the scientists making this up is complete rubbish.
  • alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:
    I don't really get the importance of the European Parliament in all this, since doesn't any deal ultimately have to be ratified by all member states internally?
    And Barnier still seems to be talking and not giving a ff about the EU parliament. You would think he should know...
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Cannabis is easy enough to grow.

    The tweet doesn't seem to match up either as according to this the uk is a major grower and exporter of medicinal cannabis
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44197038
    Not everyone wants to be a police target. Especially if they are known to have children with the relevant condition. And have jobs which they would lose with a criminal record.
    Did you read the article, the uk is one of the biggest growers and exporters of medicinal cannabis?
  • kinabalu said:

    alex_ said:

    Anyway, on a lighter note, I'm not watching it (haven't for years) but is anyone watching SPOTY who can tell us how the BBC are managing the Tyson Fury nomination? Given that he told them in no uncertain terms he had no interest in it, and, inexplicably, they refused to then take him off the shortlist?

    They've featured him but said that he does not want any votes.
    There's been a massive plunge on (Liverpool footballer) Henderson. @TheScreamingEagles must be hammering the redial button. Henderson is now below 3 on Betfair. He was over 100 a few days ago.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218
    edited December 2020

    So somebody was right, afraid can't remember who, no deal this year but they keep talking

    Me. If there's no move to WTO while they do.

    But if there is, I'm as wrong as wrong can be.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Cannabis is easy enough to grow.

    The tweet doesn't seem to match up either as according to this the uk is a major grower and exporter of medicinal cannabis
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44197038
    I would expect the child in that photograph to be able to understand that "Cannabis is easy enough to grow" is not an answer to a shortage of cannabis-based pharmaceuticals (not the pharmaceuticals mentioned in your link) kicking in in less than two weeks. What was that about people not using intelligence and common sense?
    Did you read the article I posted?
    quote
    Cannabis is also being grown legally in the UK for another medicine, Epidiolex. It's currently being reviewed for the treatment of two rare forms of uncontrollable epilepsy

    Besides which if the cannabis is being grown it can be used to make other medicines as well even if we don't currently but sounds to me like we already make the medicine for epileptics. Before commenting on my common sense and intelligence you might consider learning to read the article
    I have read the article. These people are going to run out of a completely different medicine in ten days time. You sound as intelligent and helpful as a barman being asked for a whisky and replying "barley is easy enough to grow, and we brew lots of beer over here."
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Rest of the world waking up to the fact that it's basically everywhere on Europe. All borders in Europe need to close tonight.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:
    Surely it's just a simple matter of kicking in their contingency planning?
  • Pagan2 said:

    Cannabis is easy enough to grow.

    The tweet doesn't seem to match up either as according to this the uk is a major grower and exporter of medicinal cannabis
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44197038
    They could ask my upstairs neighbour.
    Doesn't it need a little pharmaceutical processing before giving it to kids?!
    From the noise I've been putting up with, it's getting quite a lot of processing. Complaints to the landlord have resulted in comparative quiet, for now. I've dobbed him in to the local plod, let's see how seriously they take it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    alex_ said:

    Surely it's just a simple matter of kicking in their contingency planning?

    LOL

    https://twitter.com/BBCSimonJack/status/1340752328769626112
  • Scott_xP said:
    If they do, because the EU or constituent nations just arbitrarily ban their shipment, that's pretty much a declaration of war in a time like this.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218

    kinabalu said:

    alex_ said:

    Anyway, on a lighter note, I'm not watching it (haven't for years) but is anyone watching SPOTY who can tell us how the BBC are managing the Tyson Fury nomination? Given that he told them in no uncertain terms he had no interest in it, and, inexplicably, they refused to then take him off the shortlist?

    They've featured him but said that he does not want any votes.
    There's been a massive plunge on (Liverpool footballer) Henderson. @TheScreamingEagles must be hammering the redial button. Henderson is now below 3 on Betfair. He was over 100 a few days ago.
    Turned up in the studio looking smart. Good interview. Could be.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,128

    HYUFD said:

    Will be interesting to see exactly how he wants to screw over England.
    I imagine he will announce devomax for Holyrood and Scotland under a future Labour led government and regional assemblies for England
    Devomax for English regions too? And will we get to choose our regions? England will continue to effectively be a directly-governed territory of the UK.
    I expect Starmer would impose regional assemblies on England whether England wanted them or not if he became PM, given England would likely have voted against him anyway and it would be Scottish and Welsh MPs who get him into No 10.

    So you would see regional assemblies for the South East, South West, the East, the East Midlands, the West Midlands, Yorkshire and Humber, the North East and the North West to join the London Assembly most likely with county and district councils abolished too and merged into unitary councils as the next tier down
  • Scott_xP said:
    Yup. A lot of what you expected to eat for Christmas dinner on Friday isn't in the country and isn't coming. Suggest people go out and buy whatever fresh stuff they need the fuck yesterday. Whilst they still can.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    MaxPB said:

    gealbhan said:

    MaxPB said:

    Definitely a lot of overcompensation and finger pointing from the Netherlands where it's very obvious that the same mutation is present and causing as serious an outbreak. I'm guessing they think if they point the finger at the UK the rest of Europe will ignore them. It might just work, but it will be a disaster because it gives the mutant strain multiple opportunities to spread across the whole continent and then everyone is fucked.

    The UK has at least got a very strong vaccine portfolio and could see the back of this by the middle of April. Not sure how European countries will handle this given the weak vaccine portfolio.

    Instead of pointing fingers they need to shut down all borders in Europe for air, road and sea travel and start investing in vaccine production.

    tlg86 said:

    COBRA meeting tomorrow.

    “ and causing as serious an outbreak. “. You got evidence supporting that statement?

    You are pushing a narrative that the surge everywhere is down to mutant virus more than any other reason. And you are pushing it without evidence. And that narrative is causing alarm and disaster.
    Or, the scientists aren't lying and Europrean countries are taking fair precautions against more of the new strain getting in knowing that this is a huge travel period for young people in London travelling home to their countries. Your narrative of the scientists making this up is complete rubbish.
    That’s not my narrative. I didn’t say scientists made it up.

    I am saying scientists made a cautious and caveated announcement. My narrative is that it’s YOU and the media making things up, bigging it up.

    Is that clear now?

    Or are you going to wait for British government to clamp down on your fictions and causes of your ramping in the morning, before you start to behave yourself?
  • alex_ said:
    Er... they can fly. Belgium is about 10 minutes away.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Cannabis is easy enough to grow.

    The tweet doesn't seem to match up either as according to this the uk is a major grower and exporter of medicinal cannabis
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44197038
    I would expect the child in that photograph to be able to understand that "Cannabis is easy enough to grow" is not an answer to a shortage of cannabis-based pharmaceuticals (not the pharmaceuticals mentioned in your link) kicking in in less than two weeks. What was that about people not using intelligence and common sense?
    Did you read the article I posted?
    quote
    Cannabis is also being grown legally in the UK for another medicine, Epidiolex. It's currently being reviewed for the treatment of two rare forms of uncontrollable epilepsy

    Besides which if the cannabis is being grown it can be used to make other medicines as well even if we don't currently but sounds to me like we already make the medicine for epileptics. Before commenting on my common sense and intelligence you might consider learning to read the article
    I have read the article. These people are going to run out of a completely different medicine in ten days time. You sound as intelligent and helpful as a barman being asked for a whisky and replying "barley is easy enough to grow, and we brew lots of beer over here."
    Then we merely repurpose some of the cannabis crop we grow to make that instead its not rocket science. Now if the article I linked is correct seems more likely the eu is not going to have the raw medicinal cannabis they need to manufacture their drugs if we are one of the major exporters. Unless of course you think we will be able to export cannabis but not import the drugs made by it. In which case I have to ask why the hell we would allow that to happen.

    I suspect the tweet is just normal journalistic un fact checked bollocks frankly as we already as the article says make anti epilepsy medications from cannabis, nor would it surprise me to find epidolex is merely a uk brand name for exactly the same drug as they are already taking
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    alex_ said:
    NATO headquarters are in Belgium, so my money is on "yes"
  • Is anyone here actually celebrating No Deal

    No because it looks like Barnier is moving which is an even bigger reason to celebrate.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    If the new strain does end being just as debilitating, but much more easily spread, then it's a problem for the whole world. London is the world's most connected city, surely - it has 180 million unique passengers a year by air, and another 11 million travelling in by Eurostar. New Zealand only has one flight and it's empty.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713

    Scott_xP said:
    Yup. A lot of what you expected to eat for Christmas dinner on Friday isn't in the country and isn't coming. Suggest people go out and buy whatever fresh stuff they need the fuck yesterday. Whilst they still can.
    Are we headed for an Australian Style Christmas Dinner?
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    Monkeys said:

    If the new strain does end being just as debilitating, but much more easily spread, then it's a problem for the whole world. London is the world's most connected city, surely - it has 180 million unique passengers a year by air, and another 11 million travelling in by Eurostar. New Zealand only has one flight and it's empty.

    (New York is next closest with 120 million, not even close.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Can I briefly play Devil’s Advocate for Scott? NERVTAG are most certainly not lying and they have come up with a solid paper based on the evidence available - but what the Government do with the findings therein is out of their hands. I post below a link to the minutes of their meeting on Thursday which comes up with very few definitive answers. The finding that NERVTAG have “moderate” confidence that the new variant demonstrates a substantial increase in transmissibility is not the “definitive proof” some on here portray it as. That conclusion is understandable as it was reached as a result of “Studies of correlation between R-values and detection of the variant: which suggest an absolute increase in the R-value of between 0.39 to 0.93.” I’m no scientist but I see the truism that a correlation does not mean causation all the time. It often does I admit.

    The decision last night, made for whatever reason, was belatedly the right one, but I don’t think a pile on on Scott over reposting that Tweet is justified.

    https://khub.net/documents/135939561/338928724/SARS-CoV-2+variant+under+investigation%2C+meeting+minutes.pdf/962e866b-161f-2fd5-1030-32b6ab467896?t=1608470511452

    The scientists are not Tories. Most of the ones I know on SAGE vote Labour or Lib Dem. They are trying to help the country.

    If the scientists felt that Boris was misrepresenting the data, they would say so. They would have everything to lose if they stood by, silent, while their data was misused.

    If scientists on SAGE or on NERVTAG saw their data being misrepresented or misused for political purposes, they would be screaming to the heavens, loud and clear.

    They are not saying so.

    For this conspiracy to be true, the scientists would have to be in on it. But, there is no way scientist would do this, because they know they would be found out very quickly by others and their career and reputation would be irreparably damaged.

    Scott (who has no scientific training) retweeted an irresponsible claim by a single Belgian scientist. If Donald Trump tweeted some conspiracy theory rubbish, you would call him out.

    We're calling Scott out. He is encouraging the dispersal of fake news. He is propagating conspiracy theories. He is damaging the reputation of Government scientists --- who are not the same as the Government.
    This needed saying
    The eadric construct posts a ton of lurid conspiracy theories from the alt-right twittersphere that are far more pernicious than this.
    But this isn't a conspiracy theory. The new strain is both as real as the scientists say it is, and a jolly handy figleaf for Johnson.
    Depends how it's elaborated on, I'd say.
  • Are these people going home, or are they escaping, either way what a bunch of fucking idiots
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    Let's hope all their flights get cancelled.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    Just had an email. Mrs Foxy's Christmas present is in a Felixstowe container, and no truck to retrieve it. Delivery in January, probably.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Trust in Johnson is so low now, if he tells the truth, the suspicion is that you are being sold a pup. Too much spin, too many promises unfulfilled.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    gealbhan said:

    MaxPB said:

    gealbhan said:

    MaxPB said:

    Definitely a lot of overcompensation and finger pointing from the Netherlands where it's very obvious that the same mutation is present and causing as serious an outbreak. I'm guessing they think if they point the finger at the UK the rest of Europe will ignore them. It might just work, but it will be a disaster because it gives the mutant strain multiple opportunities to spread across the whole continent and then everyone is fucked.

    The UK has at least got a very strong vaccine portfolio and could see the back of this by the middle of April. Not sure how European countries will handle this given the weak vaccine portfolio.

    Instead of pointing fingers they need to shut down all borders in Europe for air, road and sea travel and start investing in vaccine production.

    tlg86 said:

    COBRA meeting tomorrow.

    “ and causing as serious an outbreak. “. You got evidence supporting that statement?

    You are pushing a narrative that the surge everywhere is down to mutant virus more than any other reason. And you are pushing it without evidence. And that narrative is causing alarm and disaster.
    Or, the scientists aren't lying and Europrean countries are taking fair precautions against more of the new strain getting in knowing that this is a huge travel period for young people in London travelling home to their countries. Your narrative of the scientists making this up is complete rubbish.
    That’s not my narrative. I didn’t say scientists made it up.

    I am saying scientists made a cautious and caveated announcement. My narrative is that it’s YOU and the media making things up, bigging it up.

    Is that clear now?

    Or are you going to wait for British government to clamp down on your fictions and causes of your ramping in the morning, before you start to behave yourself?
    No, your narrative is that they've made it up and it's actually just because of Christmas shoppers on Oxford Street or something like that but the government are using this mutation to save face.

    Give it up, this is serious and borders need to close everywhere or we repeat the original mistakes of January.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    https://twitter.com/soniasodha/status/1340773975094378498

    More likely those with ambition see that this is BoZo's moment of maximum crisis
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,218

    Is anyone here actually celebrating No Deal

    No because it looks like Barnier is moving which is an even bigger reason to celebrate.
    Really? Can he not manage the garden any longer?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Will be interesting to see exactly how he wants to screw over England.
    I imagine he will announce devomax for Holyrood and Scotland under a future Labour led government and regional assemblies for England
    Devomax for English regions too? And will we get to choose our regions? England will continue to effectively be a directly-governed territory of the UK.
    I expect Starmer would impose regional assemblies on England whether England wanted them or not if he became PM, given England would likely have voted against him anyway and it would be Scottish and Welsh MPs who get him into No 10.

    So you would see regional assemblies for the South East, South West, the East, the East Midlands, the West Midlands, Yorkshire and Humber, the North East and the North West to join the London Assembly most likely with county and district councils abolished too and merged into unitary councils as the next tier down
    1997 waves...
  • Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Yup. A lot of what you expected to eat for Christmas dinner on Friday isn't in the country and isn't coming. Suggest people go out and buy whatever fresh stuff they need the fuck yesterday. Whilst they still can.
    Are we headed for an Australian Style Christmas Dinner?
    By sheer chance I have a Sainsbury's delivery due tomorrow afternoon.

    Will there be any fresh veg in it I wonder?
  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    edited December 2020

    Are these people going home, or are they escaping, either way what a bunch of fucking idiots

    They all look young. They probably get all their "news" from social media. They're idiots, but I can understand why and how they're idiots,
  • RobD said:

    alex_ said:

    Er - but i thought there had been no testing of the vaccine on school age children? How could it possibly pass safety authorisation?
    Also the minor point about the lack of evidence that it stops transmission.
    Or that there isn't enough vaccine yet.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Cannabis is easy enough to grow.

    The tweet doesn't seem to match up either as according to this the uk is a major grower and exporter of medicinal cannabis
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44197038
    I would expect the child in that photograph to be able to understand that "Cannabis is easy enough to grow" is not an answer to a shortage of cannabis-based pharmaceuticals (not the pharmaceuticals mentioned in your link) kicking in in less than two weeks. What was that about people not using intelligence and common sense?
    Did you read the article I posted?
    quote
    Cannabis is also being grown legally in the UK for another medicine, Epidiolex. It's currently being reviewed for the treatment of two rare forms of uncontrollable epilepsy

    Besides which if the cannabis is being grown it can be used to make other medicines as well even if we don't currently but sounds to me like we already make the medicine for epileptics. Before commenting on my common sense and intelligence you might consider learning to read the article
    I have read the article. These people are going to run out of a completely different medicine in ten days time. You sound as intelligent and helpful as a barman being asked for a whisky and replying "barley is easy enough to grow, and we brew lots of beer over here."
    Then we merely repurpose some of the cannabis crop we grow to make that instead its not rocket science. Now if the article I linked is correct seems more likely the eu is not going to have the raw medicinal cannabis they need to manufacture their drugs if we are one of the major exporters. Unless of course you think we will be able to export cannabis but not import the drugs made by it. In which case I have to ask why the hell we would allow that to happen.

    I suspect the tweet is just normal journalistic un fact checked bollocks frankly as we already as the article says make anti epilepsy medications from cannabis, nor would it surprise me to find epidolex is merely a uk brand name for exactly the same drug as they are already taking
    TEN DAYS.

    It wouldn't surprise me if beer is just another name for whisky. Same ingredients, makes you drunk, obvious conclusion.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    Are these people going home, or are they escaping, either way what a bunch of fucking idiots

    They all look young. They probably get all their "news" from social media. They're idiots, but I can understand why and how they're idiots,
    Is this not usual pre holiday scenes?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    HYUFD said:
    Ah good old christian values.....burning heretics, conversion by the sword, torturing people till they confess to being in league with santa, praying the gay away, sexual repression, mysogyny.....how we miss those good old values
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    Is anyone here actually celebrating No Deal

    All the anti-globalization crowd?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited December 2020
    https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1340764267193262081?s=20

    Evidence of increased transmissibility was provided to NERVTAG and ministers on December 18.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    alex_ said:

    Anyway, on a lighter note, I'm not watching it (haven't for years) but is anyone watching SPOTY who can tell us how the BBC are managing the Tyson Fury nomination? Given that he told them in no uncertain terms he had no interest in it, and, inexplicably, they refused to then take him off the shortlist?

    They've featured him but said that he does not want any votes.
    There's been a massive plunge on (Liverpool footballer) Henderson. @TheScreamingEagles must be hammering the redial button. Henderson is now below 3 on Betfair. He was over 100 a few days ago.
    Turned up in the studio looking smart. Good interview. Could be.
    Liverpool team of the year. Betfair has suspended betting on the main event.
  • gealbhan said:

    Are these people going home, or are they escaping, either way what a bunch of fucking idiots

    They all look young. They probably get all their "news" from social media. They're idiots, but I can understand why and how they're idiots,
    Is this not usual pre holiday scenes?
    "usual pre holiday scenes", yes, in the middle of the unusual plague.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Cannabis is easy enough to grow.

    The tweet doesn't seem to match up either as according to this the uk is a major grower and exporter of medicinal cannabis
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44197038
    I would expect the child in that photograph to be able to understand that "Cannabis is easy enough to grow" is not an answer to a shortage of cannabis-based pharmaceuticals (not the pharmaceuticals mentioned in your link) kicking in in less than two weeks. What was that about people not using intelligence and common sense?
    Did you read the article I posted?
    quote
    Cannabis is also being grown legally in the UK for another medicine, Epidiolex. It's currently being reviewed for the treatment of two rare forms of uncontrollable epilepsy

    Besides which if the cannabis is being grown it can be used to make other medicines as well even if we don't currently but sounds to me like we already make the medicine for epileptics. Before commenting on my common sense and intelligence you might consider learning to read the article
    I have read the article. These people are going to run out of a completely different medicine in ten days time. You sound as intelligent and helpful as a barman being asked for a whisky and replying "barley is easy enough to grow, and we brew lots of beer over here."
    Then we merely repurpose some of the cannabis crop we grow to make that instead its not rocket science. Now if the article I linked is correct seems more likely the eu is not going to have the raw medicinal cannabis they need to manufacture their drugs if we are one of the major exporters. Unless of course you think we will be able to export cannabis but not import the drugs made by it. In which case I have to ask why the hell we would allow that to happen.

    I suspect the tweet is just normal journalistic un fact checked bollocks frankly as we already as the article says make anti epilepsy medications from cannabis, nor would it surprise me to find epidolex is merely a uk brand name for exactly the same drug as they are already taking
    TEN DAYS.

    It wouldn't surprise me if beer is just another name for whisky. Same ingredients, makes you drunk, obvious conclusion.
    What is the name of this medication then? I followed the original tweet didnt find any medication named. You are so sure its a different one then no trouble for you to name it. Then I can simply look it up and check if its the same chemically
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    edited December 2020
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Yup. A lot of what you expected to eat for Christmas dinner on Friday isn't in the country and isn't coming. Suggest people go out and buy whatever fresh stuff they need the fuck yesterday. Whilst they still can.
    Are we headed for an Australian Style Christmas Dinner?
    I had a traditional Christmas dinner in New Zealand though unusual to be in shorts and t shirt
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    alex_ said:

    Anyway, on a lighter note, I'm not watching it (haven't for years) but is anyone watching SPOTY who can tell us how the BBC are managing the Tyson Fury nomination? Given that he told them in no uncertain terms he had no interest in it, and, inexplicably, they refused to then take him off the shortlist?

    They've featured him but said that he does not want any votes.
    There's been a massive plunge on (Liverpool footballer) Henderson. @TheScreamingEagles must be hammering the redial button. Henderson is now below 3 on Betfair. He was over 100 a few days ago.
    Turned up in the studio looking smart. Good interview. Could be.
    Liverpool team of the year. Betfair has suspended betting on the main event.
    Klopp coach of the year. Can Hendo make it a clean sweep?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,165
    edited December 2020
    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Ah good old christian values.....burning heretics, conversion by the sword, torturing people till they confess to being in league with santa, praying the gay away, sexual repression, mysogyny.....how we miss those good old values
    That's pre-enlightenment Christian values ; not the Unitarians, Quakers or Christian Socialists. Pageanism has a rather complex history too.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    So many Christmas holiday plans ruined.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Are we about to go all @eadric ?

    Well, this from Scotland might do:

    https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1340742255221624833?s=19
    Dr Doom would have said this message even without a mutant to hide behind. Indeed she was!
    And she's been dead right.
This discussion has been closed.