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UK punters getting nervous about Biden’s prospects and the money is going on Trump – politicalbettin

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  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Trump AND Biden were both good looking as younger men. Odd

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54267454
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stjohn said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:
    I think he's right to have the Dems picking up Wisconsin and Michigan.

    The issue for the President is that he then needs to pick up every one of half a dozen other states: Arizona, Texas, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Florida and Iowa.

    And I don't think he gets lucky twice.
    But Robert. They are related contingencies. If Trump wins PA then on Nate Silver’s model he becomes odds on for the Presidency. He becomes favourite in Arizona and a shorter favourite than he already is in the other 5 states. As you’ve said yourself, if the polls are wrong they are likely to be consistently wrong in the same direction.
    I completely understand related contingencies. But I'm also working on the theory that the national polls are not completely off. That means I'm assuming that Biden ends up with a minimum four point national vote share lead.

    Now, it's theoretically possible his votes could be so inefficiently spread that he loses with a four point lead. But it's not likely.
    I think the assumption that high turnout benefits Biden may be wrong. Put simply, if the polls are right about Trump’s satisfaction rating and they all turn out to vote, then he wins. It’s a mistake to see 2016 as his high-water mark.
    I've no idea how you compute that. Trump's disapproval rating is significant for an incumbent president.

    Unless of course you're using Trafalgar group, in which case ...meh
    It would be that white non-college voters turn out this time when they didn't last time.
    I was referring to using the "satisfaction rating." Trump doesn't have one. He's got a disapproval rating of something c. -5 to -12.

    Quite something for an incumbent president. I think I'm right in saying he has had the worst approval rating of any president in history.

    It did for Jimmy Carter and I strongly suspect it will do for Donald Trump.
    Depends on intensity and (again) whether people vote for him despite being dissatisfied. Trump is the sort of person who disgusts many but who feel as though they need to hold their nose and vote for him
    Look I'm sorry but that's just spurious sophistry.

    Okay, so occasionally pollsters under-estimate but there isn't some spectral voting horde that no one can see until Aragorn comes along and commands them out from the mountain.
    A point I made on several occasions here is that, when you go back to the 2016 Brexit voting, the polls were shifting in Leave's favour. Then Jo Cox was murdered and Remain led most of them. The most obvious explanation is people felt embarrassed about voting for Brexit.

    Trump is that kind of figure.
    Yep.
    The shy anti-Trumpers will make the difference.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    OK. Ready to go.

    Calling this for Trump. He will edge the swing states and take a couple of surprising Dem states. He'll win the popular vote, as well.

    Take THAT and smoke it in your poncey meerschaum pipes of psephological wankpiffle

    Looking forward to your comments during election night.
    I'm joking. Biden will win this at a canter

    Of course, if Trump does pull off some horrendous surprise victory, I reserve the right to pretend this wasn't a joke. Hope that's clear.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Mr Ed is slipping we had Crossover 7 mins ago

    It's all gone a bit Pete Tong.

    Trump rampers tripping over themselves. Biden bedwetters, calling it for Trump, yet still some calm heads still following the polling.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,604
    So you stand outside the pub, wave, text your order and pick it up at the table outside. That works.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    LadyG said:

    OK. Ready to go.

    Calling this for Trump. He will edge the swing states and take a couple of surprising Dem states. He'll win the popular vote, as well.

    Take THAT and smoke it in your poncey meerschaum pipes of psephological wankpiffle

    Good for you for making a call.

    I'm feeling the other way right now. On the day turnout does not look that high, and the Democrats have done a better job of voting earlier.

    Pollsters broadly right, Biden national vote lead of at least six points, and maybe seven. MI, PA, WI all fall, plus at least one of the Southern states.

  • Sounds deliberate rather than a loophole?

    If its the case that someone eg ordering a meal in advance can call up and order food and alcohol that is a reasonable compromise.

    Maybe, but I'd have expected the rules to allow booze to be sold with a takeaway meal only, not if it's just the drinks.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Overall position in Florida 110k lead at start of day down to 83k lead

    https://joeisdone.github.io/florida/

    From the name of the URL, may not be a totally unbiased source ...
  • If Biden wins the popular vote by 6m+ and loses the election I will wee myself laughing. Its the same as our system - the national vote doesn't count for anything if you pile your vote up in safe seats / states and narrowly miss others.

    It will be a tragedy for democracy but you will laugh.

    As I say, weird person.

    Still, that's what I have been predicting all along.
    It isn't a proportional electoral system - neither is ours. I laugh loudly at Corbynite loons screeching about votes cast for Jezbollah vs his predecessors and make the exact same point. It isn't how many votes are cast nationwide, its how many are cast and where they are cast.

    If America yet again has a President who loses the vote but wins the electoral college and wants to keep that system how is that a "tragedy for democracy". You get what you vote for, and regardless of who they vote for of whatever party they keep that system and keep partisan interference in elections and keep the rights of the gun owner over the right of kids not to get shot in the classroom and keep a healthcare system thats put to shame by Cuba.

    If thats what they want in their own country who are we to argue? I don't want to live there and find the whole place a circus but its not my country to interfere in.
    Surely the point is that most people in America *don't* want that, but the Electoral College silences them.
    Its Congress who changes all that. If they wanted to change things then vote in Congress and Senate representatives pledged to do so.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,603
    edited November 2020
    I still have this lingering notion that anybody who is riled up by Trump enough to vote for Joe Biden has already cast their vote.

    Everyone voting today is going out and voting for Trump

    Democrat-leaners are sat in their favourite chair today, looking at their beer and saying to themselves

    "Joe Biden? Joe-fucking-Biden.....?"

    Remember this, when the results start coming in tonight.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stjohn said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:
    I think he's right to have the Dems picking up Wisconsin and Michigan.

    The issue for the President is that he then needs to pick up every one of half a dozen other states: Arizona, Texas, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Florida and Iowa.

    And I don't think he gets lucky twice.
    But Robert. They are related contingencies. If Trump wins PA then on Nate Silver’s model he becomes odds on for the Presidency. He becomes favourite in Arizona and a shorter favourite than he already is in the other 5 states. As you’ve said yourself, if the polls are wrong they are likely to be consistently wrong in the same direction.
    I completely understand related contingencies. But I'm also working on the theory that the national polls are not completely off. That means I'm assuming that Biden ends up with a minimum four point national vote share lead.

    Now, it's theoretically possible his votes could be so inefficiently spread that he loses with a four point lead. But it's not likely.
    I think the assumption that high turnout benefits Biden may be wrong. Put simply, if the polls are right about Trump’s satisfaction rating and they all turn out to vote, then he wins. It’s a mistake to see 2016 as his high-water mark.
    I posted earlier a tweet from Michael Caley, the most left wing Democrat in the USA, saying that "anecdotal reports of high turnout have predicted 11 of the last 4 democratic landslides"

    This sheet might be interesting for people following it through the night. He is an unpalatably smug, woke lefty, but I reckon he is pretty thorough in his data

    https://twitter.com/MC_of_A/status/1323609538919124992?s=20
    I posted earlier a tweet from Michael Caley, the most left wing Democrat in the USA, saying that "anecdotal reports of high turnout have predicted 11 of the last 4 democratic landslides"

    Eh?
    I.e. the false positive to true positive ratio is 7/4
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    TimT said:

    Overall position in Florida 110k lead at start of day down to 83k lead

    https://joeisdone.github.io/florida/

    From the name of the URL, may not be a totally unbiased source ...
    It's scraping data from the Florida Secretary of State site so the data is fine.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,717
    edited November 2020
    LadyG said:

    OK. Ready to go.

    Calling this for Trump. He will edge the swing states and take a couple of surprising Dem states. He'll win the popular vote, as well.

    Take THAT and smoke it in your poncey meerschaum pipes of psephological wankpiffle

    I can't see it that way myself. At best a dubious close EV win losing the PV. At worst I am £500* down, though sharp reverse ferreting on the night flipped that sort of loss into a modest gain in 2016.

    The funniest thing about a Trump win will be seeing him have to sort out his own cesspit of debt. Tricky when held back by Congress too.

    * I set myself that ballpark as an event limit for betting.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    OK. Ready to go.

    Calling this for Trump. He will edge the swing states and take a couple of surprising Dem states. He'll win the popular vote, as well.

    Take THAT and smoke it in your poncey meerschaum pipes of psephological wankpiffle

    Good for you for making a call.

    I'm feeling the other way right now. On the day turnout does not look that high, and the Democrats have done a better job of voting earlier.

    Pollsters broadly right, Biden national vote lead of at least six points, and maybe seven. MI, PA, WI all fall, plus at least one of the Southern states.

    It was a joke! Biden will win, fairly easily
  • Sounds deliberate rather than a loophole?

    If its the case that someone eg ordering a meal in advance can call up and order food and alcohol that is a reasonable compromise.

    Maybe, but I'd have expected the rules to allow booze to be sold with a takeaway meal only, not if it's just the drinks.
    Its possible to order from restaurants via apps like Deliveroo and get just booze delivered. I found it odd the idea that restaurants would lose the ability to sell alcohol takeaway - but from my reading of the law that was a misunderstanding and they're just stopping walk-up "takeaways" that are just glorified drinking outdoors?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    OK. Ready to go.

    Calling this for Trump. He will edge the swing states and take a couple of surprising Dem states. He'll win the popular vote, as well.

    Take THAT and smoke it in your poncey meerschaum pipes of psephological wankpiffle

    Looking forward to your comments during election night.
    I'm joking. Biden will win this at a canter

    Of course, if Trump does pull off some horrendous surprise victory, I reserve the right to pretend this wasn't a joke. Hope that's clear.
    That's how you do predicting people.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    If Biden wins the popular vote by 6m+ and loses the election I will wee myself laughing. Its the same as our system - the national vote doesn't count for anything if you pile your vote up in safe seats / states and narrowly miss others.

    It will be a tragedy for democracy but you will laugh.

    As I say, weird person.

    Still, that's what I have been predicting all along.
    I don't think its that weird. In 2016 when Trump won I was shocked and disappointed but also found it rather funny.

    I kind of assumed he'd drop the white supremacist nonsense and tack to being more "normal" - I was wrong in that.

    I pretty quickly stopped finding the idea of Trump as President as being funny. That joke isn't funny anymore and its well past time for him to go.
    People who find it funny in a good way that Donald Trump holds the world's highest elected office are not quite the full package. They're missing a piece.
    It depends on your sense of humour. If you have the kind of sense of humour that inspired the Devils Diictionary.....

    viz - AMBITION, n. An overmastering desire to be vilified by enemies while living and made ridiculous by friends when dead.
    No, that is sophisticated black humour a la Tom Lehrer and Gore Vidal.

    Neither of those would be voting Trump for the belly laughs.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    OK. Ready to go.

    Calling this for Trump. He will edge the swing states and take a couple of surprising Dem states. He'll win the popular vote, as well.

    Take THAT and smoke it in your poncey meerschaum pipes of psephological wankpiffle

    Good for you for making a call.

    I'm feeling the other way right now. On the day turnout does not look that high, and the Democrats have done a better job of voting earlier.

    Pollsters broadly right, Biden national vote lead of at least six points, and maybe seven. MI, PA, WI all fall, plus at least one of the Southern states.

    Interesting James Naughtie has just said rather than shy Trump voters he has a feeling in his bones that the big surprise might be shy Republicans who will vote for Biden.

    (I should say he tipped Buttigieg for the Dem nomination)
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited November 2020
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,594
    edited November 2020

    JUST IN: Florida has now reached 100% of 2016's voter turnout.

    Impressive although the population of Florida has increased by about 1.5 million since the last election. There would probably have to be another half a million votes to reach the same percentage as last time, taking into account the population/electorate increase.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    OK. Ready to go.

    Calling this for Trump. He will edge the swing states and take a couple of surprising Dem states. He'll win the popular vote, as well.

    Take THAT and smoke it in your poncey meerschaum pipes of psephological wankpiffle

    Looking forward to your comments during election night.
    I'm joking. Biden will win this at a canter

    Of course, if Trump does pull off some horrendous surprise victory, I reserve the right to pretend this wasn't a joke. Hope that's clear.
    :D
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited November 2020
    Edit.

    [That was incorrect]
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Foxy said:

    LadyG said:

    OK. Ready to go.

    Calling this for Trump. He will edge the swing states and take a couple of surprising Dem states. He'll win the popular vote, as well.

    Take THAT and smoke it in your poncey meerschaum pipes of psephological wankpiffle

    I can't see it that way myself. At best a dubious close EV win losing the PV. At worst I am £500* down, though sharp reverse ferreting on the night flipped that sort of loss into a modest gain in 2016.

    The funniest thing about a Trump win will be seeing him have to sort out his own cesspit of debt. Tricky when held back by Congress too.

    * I set myself that ballpark as an event limit for betting.
    The funniest thing about a Trump loss will be seeing him have to sort out his own cesspit of debt.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    I still have this lingering notion that anybody who is riled up by Trump enough to vote for Joe Biden has already cast their vote.

    Everyone voting today is going out and voting for Trump

    Democrat-leaners are sat in their favourite chair today, looking at their beer and saying to themselves

    "Joe Biden? Joe-fucking-Biden.....?"

    Remember this, when the results start coming in tonight.

    I take it that means you are calling it for Trump.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    OK. Ready to go.

    Calling this for Trump. He will edge the swing states and take a couple of surprising Dem states. He'll win the popular vote, as well.

    Take THAT and smoke it in your poncey meerschaum pipes of psephological wankpiffle

    Good for you for making a call.

    I'm feeling the other way right now. On the day turnout does not look that high, and the Democrats have done a better job of voting earlier.

    Pollsters broadly right, Biden national vote lead of at least six points, and maybe seven. MI, PA, WI all fall, plus at least one of the Southern states.

    He was pulling our leg but I also took it is 'true' given his record of swapping from day to day, hour to hour.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,717
    Andy_JS said:

    JUST IN: Florida has now reached 100% of 2016's voter turnout.

    Impressive although the population of Florida has increased by about 1.5 million since the last election. There would probably have to be another half a million votes to reach the same percentage as last time, taking into account the population/electorate increase.
    300 thousand Puerto Ricans amongst them...
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    If Biden wins the popular vote by 6m+ and loses the election I will wee myself laughing. Its the same as our system - the national vote doesn't count for anything if you pile your vote up in safe seats / states and narrowly miss others.

    It will be a tragedy for democracy but you will laugh.

    As I say, weird person.

    Still, that's what I have been predicting all along.
    It isn't a proportional electoral system - neither is ours. I laugh loudly at Corbynite loons screeching about votes cast for Jezbollah vs his predecessors and make the exact same point. It isn't how many votes are cast nationwide, its how many are cast and where they are cast.

    If America yet again has a President who loses the vote but wins the electoral college and wants to keep that system how is that a "tragedy for democracy". You get what you vote for, and regardless of who they vote for of whatever party they keep that system and keep partisan interference in elections and keep the rights of the gun owner over the right of kids not to get shot in the classroom and keep a healthcare system thats put to shame by Cuba.

    If thats what they want in their own country who are we to argue? I don't want to live there and find the whole place a circus but its not my country to interfere in.
    Surely the point is that most people in America *don't* want that, but the Electoral College silences them.
    Its Congress who changes all that. If they wanted to change things then vote in Congress and Senate representatives pledged to do so.
    Democrats also usually win the popular vote in those elections, but then either gerrymandering (House) or rural bias (Senate) then comes into play. It's a rotten system.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Andy_JS said:

    JUST IN: Florida has now reached 100% of 2016's voter turnout.

    Impressive although the population of Florida has increased by about 1.5 million since the last election. There would probably have to be another half a million votes to reach the same percentage as last time, taking into account the population/electorate increase.
    To get to the same % of RV voting, FL needs to get to 12,562,989 votes
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,425
    Alistair said:

    In 2016 Pinellas turnout

    Gop: 193000
    Dem: 183000
    Una: 107000

    For an end result of

    TRUMP: 239000ish
    CLINTON: 233000ish

    So we're currently at:
    GOP +0
    DEM +10,000
    UNA +11,000

    On the day voting currently breaking slightly better than 2:1:1 in GOP favour, with nearly 29,000 GOP votes so far today.

    Who knows?
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662
    Unless prompted by a direct question about those two states that should set an alarm bell going, FL everyone knows is a toss up so wouldn't be a stretch to have said 'win without FL' but PA? I try not to read into 'expectation' comments from campaign staff but,, I find it very strange she specified PA as well
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    @ bigjohnowls - where are you seeing the overall FL vote, and election day vote tally for the state?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209

    I still have this lingering notion that anybody who is riled up by Trump enough to vote for Joe Biden has already cast their vote.

    Everyone voting today is going out and voting for Trump

    Democrat-leaners are sat in their favourite chair today, looking at their beer and saying to themselves

    "Joe Biden? Joe-fucking-Biden.....?"

    Remember this, when the results start coming in tonight.

    I think that's right.

    *BUT*

    There simply don't seem to be that many on the day votes in Florida, North Carolina, etc.
  • LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    OK. Ready to go.

    Calling this for Trump. He will edge the swing states and take a couple of surprising Dem states. He'll win the popular vote, as well.

    Take THAT and smoke it in your poncey meerschaum pipes of psephological wankpiffle

    Looking forward to your comments during election night.
    I'm joking. Biden will win this at a canter

    Of course, if Trump does pull off some horrendous surprise victory, I reserve the right to pretend this wasn't a joke. Hope that's clear.
    :D
    I'm going to run around shouting '1948' until the first exit poll.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    If Biden wins the popular vote by 6m+ and loses the election I will wee myself laughing. Its the same as our system - the national vote doesn't count for anything if you pile your vote up in safe seats / states and narrowly miss others.

    It will be a tragedy for democracy but you will laugh.

    As I say, weird person.

    Still, that's what I have been predicting all along.
    I don't think its that weird. In 2016 when Trump won I was shocked and disappointed but also found it rather funny.

    I kind of assumed he'd drop the white supremacist nonsense and tack to being more "normal" - I was wrong in that.

    I pretty quickly stopped finding the idea of Trump as President as being funny. That joke isn't funny anymore and its well past time for him to go.
    People who find it funny in a good way that Donald Trump holds the world's highest elected office are not quite the full package. They're missing a piece.
    It was funny in a slapstick, tragic way not in a good way.

    I don't find it funny anymore and haven't for years but at first I did. In the same way it was funny to watch Sideshow Bob step on a rake repeatedly.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRq1Ksh-32g
    Yes, that's funny, but in a good way. And of course I often laugh at Trump. But not in a good way. Like you I've got more and more disgusted by him since 2016, but I perhaps started from a lower base in that I've had him down as a repulsive human being ever since the blatantly racist Obama "birther" conspiracy that he promoted.

    But anyway, he's about to get the kicking he richly merits. USA! USA! USA!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    OT. If anyone hasn't seen the 7 part series on Netflix called Queens Gambit they're missing a treat. Best chess film ever made
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Mal557 said:

    Unless prompted by a direct question about those two states that should set an alarm bell going, FL everyone knows is a toss up so wouldn't be a stretch to have said 'win without FL' but PA? I try not to read into 'expectation' comments from campaign staff but,, I find it very strange she specified PA as well
    Yes, that was my reading of it. Somewhat troubling.
  • Spreadsheet still broken?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,603

    I still have this lingering notion that anybody who is riled up by Trump enough to vote for Joe Biden has already cast their vote.

    Everyone voting today is going out and voting for Trump

    Democrat-leaners are sat in their favourite chair today, looking at their beer and saying to themselves

    "Joe Biden? Joe-fucking-Biden.....?"

    Remember this, when the results start coming in tonight.

    I take it that means you are calling it for Trump.
    Look, given the way Trump is an absolute figure of hate on the American left, if you have even a 0.000000001% of dying before polling day, you are going to vote early, to register your disapproval of him from beyond the grave. So anyone who has the vaguest chance of being killed by a cow falling from a Russian transport plane - they will have already cast their vote well before today.

    Everybody else? Four more years of Trump - what's the worst that could happen? At least he's not Joe Biden....
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2020
    What I would say if that, if you look only at the voting patterns in FL by party registration, you'd think Trump has a distinct advantage, and could if anything do better than last time. Conversely, the opinion polls point to the opposite conclusion. I was hoping that the voting patterns would provide independent corroborative evidence for the opinion polls, but I'm not finding it. That's not to say the opinion polls are wrong, but any improvement in Biden's position relative to 2016 has to come from registered Republicans and NPAs switching away from Trump to Biden, rather than from differential turnout of the party tribes.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,700

    Mal557 said:

    Unless prompted by a direct question about those two states that should set an alarm bell going, FL everyone knows is a toss up so wouldn't be a stretch to have said 'win without FL' but PA? I try not to read into 'expectation' comments from campaign staff but,, I find it very strange she specified PA as well
    Yes, that was my reading of it. Somewhat troubling.
    https://twitter.com/CharlotteAlter/status/1323668834440675330
  • Barnesian said:

    So you stand outside the pub, wave, text your order and pick it up at the table outside. That works.
    Haven't loads of pubs been using an ordering app for months to help with the process of keeping people at tables and identifying them later?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,103
    edited November 2020
    Take-Away beer is allowed apparently...but only if...

    Establishments will be able to legally sell alcohol to take away after all, if it’s preordered by phone, web or post, and provided that the purchaser does not enter the premises to collect it.

    Dear Mr Weatherspoons,

    I would like to order 10 pints of lager for collection on the 10th November...

    In envelope, attach stamp and off to the post box.
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662
    Alistair said:

    TimT said:

    Overall position in Florida 110k lead at start of day down to 83k lead

    https://joeisdone.github.io/florida/

    From the name of the URL, may not be a totally unbiased source ...
    It's scraping data from the Florida Secretary of State site so the data is fine.
    That is based on every R voting R and every D voting D? Not saying that makes a big difference, it might or might not but assume there will be some variance in that figure
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831

    If Biden wins the popular vote by 6m+ and loses the election I will wee myself laughing. Its the same as our system - the national vote doesn't count for anything if you pile your vote up in safe seats / states and narrowly miss others.

    It will be a tragedy for democracy but you will laugh.

    As I say, weird person.

    Still, that's what I have been predicting all along.
    It isn't a proportional electoral system - neither is ours. I laugh loudly at Corbynite loons screeching about votes cast for Jezbollah vs his predecessors and make the exact same point. It isn't how many votes are cast nationwide, its how many are cast and where they are cast.

    If America yet again has a President who loses the vote but wins the electoral college and wants to keep that system how is that a "tragedy for democracy". You get what you vote for, and regardless of who they vote for of whatever party they keep that system and keep partisan interference in elections and keep the rights of the gun owner over the right of kids not to get shot in the classroom and keep a healthcare system thats put to shame by Cuba.

    If thats what they want in their own country who are we to argue? I don't want to live there and find the whole place a circus but its not my country to interfere in.
    Surely the point is that most people in America *don't* want that, but the Electoral College silences them.
    Its Congress who changes all that. If they wanted to change things then vote in Congress and Senate representatives pledged to do so.
    Two thirds of each chamber AND three fourths of the states.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,717
    Roger said:

    OT. If anyone hasn't seen the 7 part series on Netflix called Queens Gambit they're missing a treat. Best chess film ever made

    Not a lot of competition for that award surely?

    And cannot be as good as The Seventh Seal.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    I still have this lingering notion that anybody who is riled up by Trump enough to vote for Joe Biden has already cast their vote.

    Everyone voting today is going out and voting for Trump

    Democrat-leaners are sat in their favourite chair today, looking at their beer and saying to themselves

    "Joe Biden? Joe-fucking-Biden.....?"

    Remember this, when the results start coming in tonight.

    I take it that means you are calling it for Trump.
    Look, given the way Trump is an absolute figure of hate on the American left, if you have even a 0.000000001% of dying before polling day, you are going to vote early, to register your disapproval of him from beyond the grave. So anyone who has the vaguest chance of being killed by a cow falling from a Russian transport plane - they will have already cast their vote well before today.

    Everybody else? Four more years of Trump - what's the worst that could happen? At least he's not Joe Biden....
    I sense a person projecting their own feelings and little else.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    In 2016 Pinellas turnout

    Gop: 193000
    Dem: 183000
    Una: 107000

    For an end result of

    TRUMP: 239000ish
    CLINTON: 233000ish

    So we're currently at:
    GOP +0
    DEM +10,000
    UNA +11,000

    On the day voting currently breaking slightly better than 2:1:1 in GOP favour, with nearly 29,000 GOP votes so far today.

    Who knows?
    Assuming 100% Dem to Clinton and GOP to Clinton gives the Unaffiliated splitting
    Trump 46,000
    Clinton 50,000
    Other 11,000

    So even when Trump won the Independents split in favour of Clinton.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,103
    edited November 2020
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    OT. If anyone hasn't seen the 7 part series on Netflix called Queens Gambit they're missing a treat. Best chess film ever made

    Not a lot of competition for that award surely?

    And cannot be as good as The Seventh Seal.
    Bobby Fischer Against the World...Also not chess, but the Deep Mind AI Doc about Alpha Go.
  • MetatronMetatron Posts: 193
    Trump is the Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali of politics.In the 60's and 70's a sizeable section of America hated him
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Turns out O'Malley's comments were in relation to a set of slides she was briefing at HQ. I'll try to post her slides now.
  • MetatronMetatron Posts: 193
    By year 2000 many of those people who hated Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali were voting him the greatest Sports Personality of the 20th Century
  • Biden 306 Trump 232.
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662

    Mal557 said:

    Unless prompted by a direct question about those two states that should set an alarm bell going, FL everyone knows is a toss up so wouldn't be a stretch to have said 'win without FL' but PA? I try not to read into 'expectation' comments from campaign staff but,, I find it very strange she specified PA as well
    Yes, that was my reading of it. Somewhat troubling.
    https://twitter.com/CharlotteAlter/status/1323668834440675330
    This is the specifi quote that relates to PA


    Charlotte Alter
    @CharlotteAlter
    Jen O'Malley Dillon: Pennsylvania and Florida "are requirements for DT to get to 270, they are not requirements for Joe Biden to get to 270, because we have so many pathways"
    4:40 pm · 3 Nov 2020·Twitter Web App
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,681
    edited November 2020
    Roger said:

    OT. If anyone hasn't seen the 7 part series on Netflix called Queens Gambit they're missing a treat. Best chess film ever made

    Bit of a dull opening though. :)
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662
    Mal557 said:

    Mal557 said:

    Unless prompted by a direct question about those two states that should set an alarm bell going, FL everyone knows is a toss up so wouldn't be a stretch to have said 'win without FL' but PA? I try not to read into 'expectation' comments from campaign staff but,, I find it very strange she specified PA as well
    Yes, that was my reading of it. Somewhat troubling.
    https://twitter.com/CharlotteAlter/status/1323668834440675330
    This is the specifi quote that relates to PA


    Charlotte Alter
    @CharlotteAlter
    Jen O'Malley Dillon: Pennsylvania and Florida "are requirements for DT to get to 270, they are not requirements for Joe Biden to get to 270, because we have so many pathways"
    4:40 pm · 3 Nov 2020·Twitter Web App
    sl slightly different when you see that, shes saying Trump needs them we dont
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,594

    Mal557 said:

    Unless prompted by a direct question about those two states that should set an alarm bell going, FL everyone knows is a toss up so wouldn't be a stretch to have said 'win without FL' but PA? I try not to read into 'expectation' comments from campaign staff but,, I find it very strange she specified PA as well
    Yes, that was my reading of it. Somewhat troubling.
    I'm not sure it's a sign the Democrats are worried, it might help to get the vote out everywhere.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    One area where, even with caveats about it, the public are less forgiving.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    OT. If anyone hasn't seen the 7 part series on Netflix called Queens Gambit they're missing a treat. Best chess film ever made

    Not a lot of competition for that award surely?

    And cannot be as good as The Seventh Seal.
    I watched the first two episodes of Queens Gambit last night. It is brilliant.
  • Metatron said:

    Trump is the Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali of politics.In the 60's and 70's a sizeable section of America hated him

    Ironically the kind of people who hated Ali are the ones who love Trump. And for similar reasons.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Roger said:

    OT. If anyone hasn't seen the 7 part series on Netflix called Queens Gambit they're missing a treat. Best chess film ever made

    It's a fantastic series.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    OK. Ready to go.

    Calling this for Trump. He will edge the swing states and take a couple of surprising Dem states. He'll win the popular vote, as well.

    Take THAT and smoke it in your poncey meerschaum pipes of psephological wankpiffle

    Good for you for making a call.

    I'm feeling the other way right now. On the day turnout does not look that high, and the Democrats have done a better job of voting earlier.

    Pollsters broadly right, Biden national vote lead of at least six points, and maybe seven. MI, PA, WI all fall, plus at least one of the Southern states.
    Hey, that's slightly backing off your landslide call last w/end.

    Stay with me! :smile:
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662

    Biden 306 Trump 232.

    Did you just reverse the 2016 result? :) J/k aside thats not far off where I am, though bit more breathing space for Joe in yours
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,700
    edited November 2020
    Mal557 said:

    Mal557 said:

    Unless prompted by a direct question about those two states that should set an alarm bell going, FL everyone knows is a toss up so wouldn't be a stretch to have said 'win without FL' but PA? I try not to read into 'expectation' comments from campaign staff but,, I find it very strange she specified PA as well
    Yes, that was my reading of it. Somewhat troubling.
    https://twitter.com/CharlotteAlter/status/1323668834440675330
    This is the specifi quote that relates to PA

    Charlotte Alter
    @CharlotteAlter
    Jen O'Malley Dillon: Pennsylvania and Florida "are requirements for DT to get to 270, they are not requirements for Joe Biden to get to 270, because we have so many pathways"
    4:40 pm · 3 Nov 2020·Twitter Web App
    I don't think she's quite right. If Trump can hang on to one of the Great Lakes states then he could possibly do it without Pennsylvania, but on the other hand if he's winning there, he's probably winning in Pennsylvania too so it's unlikely.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Curious - Trump still moving out from 3 to 3.15, but coming in (in a thin market on Betfair) from 1.8 to 1.6 for Florida. If he's becoming less likely to win overall, I'd think he's less likely to win Florida too.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Take-Away beer is allowed apparently...but only if...

    Establishments will be able to legally sell alcohol to take away after all, if it’s preordered by phone, web or post, and provided that the purchaser does not enter the premises to collect it.

    Dear Mr Weatherspoons,

    I would like to order 10 pints of lager for collection on the 10th November...

    In envelope, attach stamp and off to the post box.

    Just a neat phone app, pick up at the door, drink outside, job done.

    Good news for those of use who like a few ales when walking on crisp autumn Saturdays.
  • Chortle.

    Stormy Daniels' pseudonym in the NDA she signed with Trump was Peggy Peterson. Shortened throughout to 'PP'. Or, as said out loud, 'Pee-Pee'.
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662

    Turns out O'Malley's comments were in relation to a set of slides she was briefing at HQ. I'll try to post her slides now.

    Thanks
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    Roger said:

    OT. If anyone hasn't seen the 7 part series on Netflix called Queens Gambit they're missing a treat. Best chess film ever made

    Is it a crowded genre?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Curious - Trump still moving out from 3 to 3.15, but coming in (in a thin market on Betfair) from 1.8 to 1.6 for Florida. If he's becoming less likely to win overall, I'd think he's less likely to win Florida too.

    Hi Nick, I have noticed this.

    I think the best explanation is turnout.

    Lower OTD turnout is indicated by the FL returns. Lower OTD turnout might bring the likes of NC into the Dem column if repeated up there.

    Make sense?

    But, it all could be noise.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Here we go, I believe these are the new Regulations. Despite the parliamentary vote they appear to be already made.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1200/pdfs/uksi_20201200_en.pdf
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited November 2020

    Biden 306 Trump 232.

    That's the EXACT mirror of 2016 if you adjust for faithless electors. And a touch too conservative for me. I want the landslide. I feel the landslide. I deduce the landslide. I've bet the landslide. Heart & Soul & Brain & Wallet aligned. That's rare.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    edited November 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    Is it really election day or am I just dreaming? We seem to have been waiting for this day for so long.

    The interminable wait for the US election to be over has, unwittingly, been made less interminable because the other major, sustained news story has stolen its thunder.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Is it really election day or am I just dreaming? We seem to have been waiting for this day for so long.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W5aKwrsYIM
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    edited November 2020
    GOP now LT 50% of OTD votes for first time today 49.59%

    https://tqv.vrswebapps.com/?state=FL&county=pin
  • Curious - Trump still moving out from 3 to 3.15, but coming in (in a thin market on Betfair) from 1.8 to 1.6 for Florida. If he's becoming less likely to win overall, I'd think he's less likely to win Florida too.

    Hi Nick, I have noticed this.

    I think the best explanation is turnout.

    Lower OTD turnout is indicated by the FL returns. Lower OTD turnout might bring the likes of NC into the Dem column if repeated up there.

    Make sense?

    But, it all could be noise.
    Is it worth also asking how correlated the markets are? I.e. There must be more people with less idea of what they are doing betting on the over all market.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    Metatron said:

    Trump is the Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali of politics.In the 60's and 70's a sizeable section of America hated him

    Ironically the kind of people who hated Ali are the ones who love Trump. And for similar reasons.
    Totally.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    OT. If anyone hasn't seen the 7 part series on Netflix called Queens Gambit they're missing a treat. Best chess film ever made

    Is it a crowded genre?
    I haven't seen the film but Nabokov did write about chess and one of his novels The Defense was made into a film. The Luzhin Defence.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    I've been itching for a great new series for a while so thank you for that Gambit tip folks. Just loading it up now.

    Fab.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209

    Mal557 said:

    Mal557 said:

    Unless prompted by a direct question about those two states that should set an alarm bell going, FL everyone knows is a toss up so wouldn't be a stretch to have said 'win without FL' but PA? I try not to read into 'expectation' comments from campaign staff but,, I find it very strange she specified PA as well
    Yes, that was my reading of it. Somewhat troubling.
    https://twitter.com/CharlotteAlter/status/1323668834440675330
    This is the specifi quote that relates to PA

    Charlotte Alter
    @CharlotteAlter
    Jen O'Malley Dillon: Pennsylvania and Florida "are requirements for DT to get to 270, they are not requirements for Joe Biden to get to 270, because we have so many pathways"
    4:40 pm · 3 Nov 2020·Twitter Web App
    I don't think she's quite right. If Trump can hang on to one of the Great Lakes states then he could possibly do it without Pennsylvania, but on the other hand if he's winning there, he's probably winning in Pennsylvania too so it's unlikely.
    I think Michigan and Wisconsin are gone for Trump - the Biden leads there are just too big.
  • It's probably a waste of time doing anything on here until midnight UK time.

    Speculating is more likely to lead to uninformed overtrading which is unlikely to improve your positions.

    I am ready, man! Ready to get it on!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Alistair said:
    Does that mean some people already have a good idea of the Georgia result?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Older voters vote early , younger people later in the day . It’s hilarious to see some of the posts on twitter reading too much into the current turnout by party .
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    nico679 said:

    Older voters vote early , younger people later in the day . It’s hilarious to see some of the posts on twitter reading too much into the current turnout by party .

    It's an election day tradition, right up there with excitement over throngs of people voting (even when we don't know if turnout is higher than usual).
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Alistair said:
    Does that mean some people already have a good idea of the Georgia result?
    They may not have started to tabulate them, on purpose, so that no-one does
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    rcs1000 said:

    Mal557 said:

    Mal557 said:

    Unless prompted by a direct question about those two states that should set an alarm bell going, FL everyone knows is a toss up so wouldn't be a stretch to have said 'win without FL' but PA? I try not to read into 'expectation' comments from campaign staff but,, I find it very strange she specified PA as well
    Yes, that was my reading of it. Somewhat troubling.
    https://twitter.com/CharlotteAlter/status/1323668834440675330
    This is the specifi quote that relates to PA

    Charlotte Alter
    @CharlotteAlter
    Jen O'Malley Dillon: Pennsylvania and Florida "are requirements for DT to get to 270, they are not requirements for Joe Biden to get to 270, because we have so many pathways"
    4:40 pm · 3 Nov 2020·Twitter Web App
    I don't think she's quite right. If Trump can hang on to one of the Great Lakes states then he could possibly do it without Pennsylvania, but on the other hand if he's winning there, he's probably winning in Pennsylvania too so it's unlikely.
    I think Michigan and Wisconsin are gone for Trump - the Biden leads there are just too big.
    Plenty of evidence in recent weeks that teh Trump campaign has reached the same conclusion - cancelling ads in Wisconsin, not many rallies in MI. They have essentially gone all in on PA which makes sense
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    Mal557 said:

    Mal557 said:

    Unless prompted by a direct question about those two states that should set an alarm bell going, FL everyone knows is a toss up so wouldn't be a stretch to have said 'win without FL' but PA? I try not to read into 'expectation' comments from campaign staff but,, I find it very strange she specified PA as well
    Yes, that was my reading of it. Somewhat troubling.
    https://twitter.com/CharlotteAlter/status/1323668834440675330
    This is the specifi quote that relates to PA

    Charlotte Alter
    @CharlotteAlter
    Jen O'Malley Dillon: Pennsylvania and Florida "are requirements for DT to get to 270, they are not requirements for Joe Biden to get to 270, because we have so many pathways"
    4:40 pm · 3 Nov 2020·Twitter Web App
    I don't think she's quite right. If Trump can hang on to one of the Great Lakes states then he could possibly do it without Pennsylvania, but on the other hand if he's winning there, he's probably winning in Pennsylvania too so it's unlikely.
    I think the two campaigns' focus on Pennsylvania tells us they each believe it is close, in a way that's not true of Wisconsin or Michigan.
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662
    rcs1000 said:

    Mal557 said:

    Mal557 said:

    Unless prompted by a direct question about those two states that should set an alarm bell going, FL everyone knows is a toss up so wouldn't be a stretch to have said 'win without FL' but PA? I try not to read into 'expectation' comments from campaign staff but,, I find it very strange she specified PA as well
    Yes, that was my reading of it. Somewhat troubling.
    https://twitter.com/CharlotteAlter/status/1323668834440675330
    This is the specifi quote that relates to PA

    Charlotte Alter
    @CharlotteAlter
    Jen O'Malley Dillon: Pennsylvania and Florida "are requirements for DT to get to 270, they are not requirements for Joe Biden to get to 270, because we have so many pathways"
    4:40 pm · 3 Nov 2020·Twitter Web App
    I don't think she's quite right. If Trump can hang on to one of the Great Lakes states then he could possibly do it without Pennsylvania, but on the other hand if he's winning there, he's probably winning in Pennsylvania too so it's unlikely.
    I think Michigan and Wisconsin are gone for Trump - the Biden leads there are just too big.
    I agree with that , though Mr Cahaly might beg to differ!! Trump needs PA.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,708
    50% of the way through Election Day Voting:

    Broward: Election Day vote = 8% of total vote

    Palm Beach: 13%

    Pinellas: 12%

    So still no sign of a high election day vote in FL - though of course FL had a very high early vote (95% of 2016 total vote)
  • Roger said:

    OT. If anyone hasn't seen the 7 part series on Netflix called Queens Gambit they're missing a treat. Best chess film ever made

    Bit of a dull opening though. :)
    I will check it out mate
  • kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    OK. Ready to go.

    Calling this for Trump. He will edge the swing states and take a couple of surprising Dem states. He'll win the popular vote, as well.

    Take THAT and smoke it in your poncey meerschaum pipes of psephological wankpiffle

    Good for you for making a call.

    I'm feeling the other way right now. On the day turnout does not look that high, and the Democrats have done a better job of voting earlier.

    Pollsters broadly right, Biden national vote lead of at least six points, and maybe seven. MI, PA, WI all fall, plus at least one of the Southern states.
    Hey, that's slightly backing off your landslide call last w/end.

    Stay with me! :smile:
    True but at least he's changed out of his brown trousers.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    Biden 306 Trump 232.

    That's the EXACT mirror of 2016 if you adjust for faithless electors. And a touch too conservative for me. I want the landslide. I feel the landslide. I deduce the landslide. I've bet the landslide. Heart & Soul & Brain & Wallet aligned. That's rare.
    Landslides are indeed fun.

    Another bad year for Red Walls?
This discussion has been closed.