As the 'More or less' reporter - Again some very interesting stuff. Three separate topics on Covid two of which I found particularly interesting.
Again the double counting cropped up in a different guise and this time the double counting has really screwed up the information for anyone trying to defend it.
This time it was the 'test and track' and the confusion of why so many had not been tracked. I remember on the day the discrepancy was given as due to people not responding or not being found. But this isn't the case. Firstly the non England figures have to be removed as they are not included in the stats, but that still left only 8000 from 12000 cases tracked.
It appears that 4000 of those 8000 had taken 2 tests and you only need to track someone once. So it isn't 12000 but actually only 8000.
See what happens when you test someone twice and count it as two tests! You cause utter confusion.
So the immediate response was this is good news then; only 8000 and not 12000 cases. But no, because the random testing shows there are 30,000 odd cases so it means you have just picked up a smaller number. The cases hasn't changed, you have just found less.
The information being given out at these daily briefings was crap and is still crap. At least this time not deliberately so.
Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.
The last thing we need is for Cummings to start trying to meddle with Universities.
He would turn them from rather pompous virtue-signalling fellow travellers to full fledged violent anarchists.
I'd love to see a greater diversity in Universities, with more in the independent sector.
Some of these people tipping £100-200m into Oxbridge institutes would do a better job by helping create smaller, more specialist universities imo. One of the things that can really underpin an area.
University of Mansfield .... yum.
Open University expansion, with online courses that can result in an actual degree qualification for a fraction of the price of residential, in-person courses.
We need to use modern technology, to change the market for education for the better.
Agreed the OU should be enormously expanded. Instead a while back the number of courses was cut, payments to tutors were lowered, and fees were trebled or quadrupled, all with little resistance. The University of London too used to encourage independent study as well as external tuition. If even a single reputable university were to open up exams in all subjects to private candidates the stimulus would be there for a growth of a healthy study culture (always assuming it didn't give degrees away like sweeties but then it wouldn't deserve to be reputable any more). That this doesn't happen shows how stuck in the mud universities are.
You say: "Instead a while back the number of courses was cut, payments to tutors were lowered, and fees were trebled or quadrupled, all with little resistance."
This was the Conservative`s abolishing of the subsidy for the OU - in order to remove its status as a quasi state university. A superb place - I graduated 8 or so years ago just before the changes were made. I`ll never forgive the CP for that.
Course fees trebled overnight - and what for me was a good value degree, taken purely personal enrichment rather than for occupational reasons, has been taken from others who would have benefited from a similar experience (who maybe like me left a poor school at age 16). My degree cost about £5k. There is no way I would have paid £15k-£20k.
That`s why the OU did what it did - it had no choice. It is now not the place that it was. A great shame. Harold Wilson`s finest achievement dismantled out of spite I think.
Great post, I did my OU degree in the 1990s.It really helped me personally and in my work. It was and is one of Labours and Harold Wilson's great achievements. Giving many a first chance and many others a second chance at education.
As you say I was sorry to see the course fees had increased so much.Preventing many having the opportunity I had.
Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.
They actually have bigger problems, certainly in Scotland where the Universities are facing a complete shit storm.
The Scottish government gives £1820 per student with a set number of places. This of course is absolutely unsustainable for anything other than the most basic of institutions so Universities have sought English students (£9250 a pop) and foreign non EU students (up to £24K) to cross subsidise. The Russell group members in particular have been very successful at this allowing the Universities to thrive with an ever smaller part of their cohort being made up of Scottish students.
Boris has now capped the number of English grants that will be paid to Scottish Universities and the foreigners are not coming because of Covid. The Scottish Government is not able to increase the number of places it funds because it has no money. I am not sure whether the likes of Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive. It really depends on how long the foreign market takes to recover but the clock is ticking
.
Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive if the become pro-Scottish. If they don’t, they won’t.
That is the inevitable consequence of being national institutions funded by the taxpayer. Either you work in the broad interests of the nation or else you try your luck in the free market.
Those 3 are the only world class universities Scotland has, lose those, lose world class higher education in Scotland
Says Rupert Murdoch.
The rest of the planet does not see the world through those London-tinted spectacles that so distort your vision.
Only 2 Scottish universities in the global top 100, Edinburgh and Glasgow.
Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.
They actually have bigger problems, certainly in Scotland where the Universities are facing a complete shit storm.
The Scottish government gives £1820 per student with a set number of places. This of course is absolutely unsustainable for anything other than the most basic of institutions so Universities have sought English students (£9250 a pop) and foreign non EU students (up to £24K) to cross subsidise. The Russell group members in particular have been very successful at this allowing the Universities to thrive with an ever smaller part of their cohort being made up of Scottish students.
Boris has now capped the number of English grants that will be paid to Scottish Universities and the foreigners are not coming because of Covid. The Scottish Government is not able to increase the number of places it funds because it has no money. I am not sure whether the likes of Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive. It really depends on how long the foreign market takes to recover but the clock is ticking
Recessions, economic cycles and unexpected difficulties are part of life.
If universities haven't prepared for those then they haven't been run well.
Then they haven't been run well. They have grown fat on an apparently ever increasing market for their services. English Universities, bloated by the fees they are able to charge are similar. No doubt there is a great deal of blubber to cut but we are at risk of losing bone and muscle too.
Most English universities are just running their courses online, which means fewer costs while still getting the fees.
Only Scotland does not have student fees
“Only Scotland does not have student fees.”
Bollocks. Austria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Greece, Malta, Montenegro, Norway, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden, Turkey.... and that’s just the other European examples.
It is England that is an oddity, not Scotland.
Not in the Anglosphere and English universities still have a reliable income because of those fees for online courses
Your beloved Anglosphere. You do realise that the feelings are unreciprocated, don’t you?
Scotland’s benchmark is real. Your’s is imaginary.
Mr. xP, kneeling can also occur at marriage proposals and when being knighted. I didn't say he was swearing fealty. I said that when he was kneeling, he was kneeling.
You said it was "exactly the same", which is obviously Bollocks.
Love that from Raab. Seems very in touch with the public.
As long as none of them have ever seen Game of Thrones. They all think he's an idiot.
I've never watched Game of Thrones. But clearly the general public won't be taking a knee soon so he's bang on. Raab has very much impressed this year, and I certainly had some doubts prior to his appointment in the foreign office,
Raab is clearly one of the cabinet comletely fed up with Johnson's cowardice and incompetence. Sunak is another. Patel too, probably. They see the economic Tsunami this autumn as presaging a long period out of power at some stage
As the 'More or less' reporter - Again some very interesting stuff. Three separate topics on Covid two of which I found particularly interesting.
Again the double counting cropped up in a different guise and this time the double counting has really screwed up the information for anyone trying to defend it.
This time it was the 'test and track' and the confusion of why so many had not been tracked. I remember on the day the discrepancy was given as due to people not responding or not being found. But this isn't the case. Firstly the non England figures have to be removed as they are not included in the stats, but that still left only 8000 from 12000 cases tracked.
It appears that 4000 of those 8000 had taken 2 tests and you only need to track someone once. So it isn't 12000 but actually only 8000.
See what happens when you test someone twice and count it as two tests! You cause utter confusion.
So the immediate response was this is good news then; only 8000 and not 12000 cases. But no, because the random testing shows there are 30,000 odd cases so it means you have just picked up a smaller number. The cases hasn't changed, you have just found less.
The information being given out at these daily briefings was crap and is still crap. At least this time not deliberately so.
"More or Less" has been superb over this crisis. Essential listening. I listen to some episodes twice - including the last one.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this, without being called out for it being blatantly racist?
The 2nd interesting story on More or Less was looking at the assertion that most people who have died would have died anyway in a few months of something else.
Not true. Typically an 80 year old will live for 10 years more and will have a number of health issues i.e. the very people who are being described as only having a few months to live.
To take an extreme example - An 80 year old man who smokes, who is obese and has heart disease has an additionally life expectancy of 5 years!
Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.
They actually have bigger problems, certainly in Scotland where the Universities are facing a complete shit storm.
The Scottish government gives £1820 per student with a set number of places. This of course is absolutely unsustainable for anything other than the most basic of institutions so Universities have sought English students (£9250 a pop) and foreign non EU students (up to £24K) to cross subsidise. The Russell group members in particular have been very successful at this allowing the Universities to thrive with an ever smaller part of their cohort being made up of Scottish students.
Boris has now capped the number of English grants that will be paid to Scottish Universities and the foreigners are not coming because of Covid. The Scottish Government is not able to increase the number of places it funds because it has no money. I am not sure whether the likes of Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive. It really depends on how long the foreign market takes to recover but the clock is ticking
.
Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive if the become pro-Scottish. If they don’t, they won’t.
That is the inevitable consequence of being national institutions funded by the taxpayer. Either you work in the broad interests of the nation or else you try your luck in the free market.
Those 3 are the only world class universities Scotland has, lose those, lose world class higher education in Scotland
Says Rupert Murdoch.
The rest of the planet does not see the world through those London-tinted spectacles that so distort your vision.
Only 2 Scottish universities in the global top 100, Edinburgh and Glasgow.
As the 'More or less' reporter - Again some very interesting stuff. Three separate topics on Covid two of which I found particularly interesting.
Again the double counting cropped up in a different guise and this time the double counting has really screwed up the information for anyone trying to defend it.
This time it was the 'test and track' and the confusion of why so many had not been tracked. I remember on the day the discrepancy was given as due to people not responding or not being found. But this isn't the case. Firstly the non England figures have to be removed as they are not included in the stats, but that still left only 8000 from 12000 cases tracked.
It appears that 4000 of those 8000 had taken 2 tests and you only need to track someone once. So it isn't 12000 but actually only 8000.
See what happens when you test someone twice and count it as two tests! You cause utter confusion.
So the immediate response was this is good news then; only 8000 and not 12000 cases. But no, because the random testing shows there are 30,000 odd cases so it means you have just picked up a smaller number. The cases hasn't changed, you have just found less.
The information being given out at these daily briefings was crap and is still crap. At least this time not deliberately so.
"More or Less" has been superb over this crisis. Essential listening. I listen to some episodes twice - including the last one.
Absolutely. Interesting they have got their run extended by 2.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial
But they're not "bending the knee, they're taking a knee
It's a totally different thing, for a totally different reason.
Raab remains an idiot.
BB is just trying to stir up the culture war again as it's a wonderful distraction from the continuing incompetence of the government he supports. Straight out of Trump's playbook.
With every PL football team taking the knee comments like BB's just look idiotic. Did they learn nothing from the Rashford incident. Far more people will take their lead from PL footballers than an arrogant lightweight like Raab.
Ah yes, people should take their lead from unelected footballers. Good to know that you've given away any right to complain about government via 'populism' ever again.
And in case you haven't been paying attention, it was the protesters who started the culture war, and who are pressing ever forwards with it.
I am simply pointing out that PL teams taking the knee makes your subjugation meme look like the bollox it is.
On topic, at what point can Trump decide he doesn't want to stand?
If he looks like losing "bigly" would he just walk away from the contest?
That would be such (!) a cheat. Like feigning injury when you're 0/5 love 30 in the 5th. Really hope he doesn't do that. Don't think he will. He'll want to do some rallies and stuff, some negative on Biden, a TV debate, keep a hold of the spotlight to the end, see how it all shakes out.
I`ve said this repeatedly for months. Lay Trump for Next President rather than back Biden or Dems to win. The odds are only marginally inferior and you win if Trump doesn`t stand regardless of what happens in the GE.
I`ve thought for months that he may petulantly jack it when he becomes convinced he can`t win. He won`t care about leaving the Reps in a bind.
You have indeed made this point before. I personally don't see it - I just think he'll want that campaign high again, the MAGA rallies, the adoration from the fanbase - but I agree with lay Trump being better than back Biden. It covers both your scenario AND the one where Biden has a medical issue and is replaced.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial
But they're not "bending the knee, they're taking a knee
It's a totally different thing, for a totally different reason.
Raab remains an idiot.
I agree. It`s not the same thing. It`s to show sympathy and solidarity with the disgusting killing of Floyd, mirroring the method of his death.
Raab is right not to do it though. Like me he will feel awful about the death of Floyd but will not feel the need to demonstrate this graphically.
It really isn't that because this taking a knee predated Floyd's murder by some years (although I accept that there is a horrible symmetry). What I understood that the NFL players were seeking to show was both that they considered their race to still be treated as second rate citizens (where there is a GOT echo) and regret that their country did not live up to its declared aspirations in this respect.
Which is fair enough. What it has to do with EPL footballers last night I am not really sure.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial
But they're not "bending the knee, they're taking a knee
It's a totally different thing, for a totally different reason.
Raab remains an idiot.
BB is just trying to stir up the culture war again as it's a wonderful distraction from the continuing incompetence of the government he supports. Straight out of Trump's playbook.
With every PL football team taking the knee comments like BB's just look idiotic. Did they learn nothing from the Rashford incident. Far more people will take their lead from PL footballers than an arrogant lightweight like Raab.
Ah yes, people should take their lead from unelected footballers. Good to know that you've given away any right to complain about government via 'populism' ever again.
And in case you haven't been paying attention, it was the protesters who started the culture war, and who are pressing ever forwards with it.
I am simply pointing out that PL teams taking the knee makes your subjugation meme look like the bollox it is.
Eh? All it shows is they're virtue-signalling idiots who don't know what the gesture means, in the same way they know little about anything other than kicking a football.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Indeed. And it could only be extreme anger that that led the cartoonist to come up with such an image.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Has the Guardian admitted it was founded on the profits of the slave trade and will act at Lloyds and others
Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.
They actually have bigger problems, certainly in Scotland where the Universities are facing a complete shit storm.
The Scottish government gives £1820 per student with a set number of places. This of course is absolutely unsustainable for anything other than the most basic of institutions so Universities have sought English students (£9250 a pop) and foreign non EU students (up to £24K) to cross subsidise. The Russell group members in particular have been very successful at this allowing the Universities to thrive with an ever smaller part of their cohort being made up of Scottish students.
Boris has now capped the number of English grants that will be paid to Scottish Universities and the foreigners are not coming because of Covid. The Scottish Government is not able to increase the number of places it funds because it has no money. I am not sure whether the likes of Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive. It really depends on how long the foreign market takes to recover but the clock is ticking
.
Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive if the become pro-Scottish. If they don’t, they won’t.
That is the inevitable consequence of being national institutions funded by the taxpayer. Either you work in the broad interests of the nation or else you try your luck in the free market.
Those 3 are the only world class universities Scotland has, lose those, lose world class higher education in Scotland
Says Rupert Murdoch.
The rest of the planet does not see the world through those London-tinted spectacles that so distort your vision.
Only 2 Scottish universities in the global top 100, Edinburgh and Glasgow.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
So I broke cover this morning and for the first time in 12 weeks entered a shop. It was my intention to buy some plants as a surprise for my dear wife. At B & Q the social distancing and use of hand santisers was amazing and it did feel safe. Indeed nobody, customers or staff, wore face masks confirming that the UK do not have a liking for them. However following my wife's eye for a bargain I grabbed a few plants from the clearances, but I have no idea what they are, but I hoped my wife would. Safely home indeed she seems very pleased as she dived into her plant manual to find out about them and seems quite chuffed. Next trip to Asda maybe.
It is a relief to take the first steps but there is a wary attitude and social distancing was uppermost in my mind
HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.
This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.
Be comforted by the £1m paint job of Britola Gay.
Before you start criticising Boris , what about the billions wasted on ludicrously large aircraft carriers that our planes can not land on.. How much was it 9 billion>?>?.. Lets not go there with the NHS Computer debacle either...
I criticise all three shit decisions, and plenty more. Whats wrong with doing that?
Dura is on Boris's case.. just pointing out all Govts make shit decisions. none worse than the Labour Party allowing the loon Brown to become PM. He fecked the economy for generations.
You can blame the Govt of the day for how it has handled elements of the COVID 19 crisis, but the cost is largely unavoidable/
Rather than reclassifying defence as aid, we should be going the other way. The spending we make on pandemic preparedness, improving the health systems of developing countries to detect infectious diseases do more for actually defending the UK public than aircraft carriers.
Or Trident. As I pointed out above, the most powerful man in the world isn't even aware we have it.
Some deterrent...
... If we were to very quietly cancel the program, would anyone notice ?
I think the flag waving statue defenders would happily turn their efforts to saving our proud British deterrent.
Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.
They actually have bigger problems, certainly in Scotland where the Universities are facing a complete shit storm.
The Scottish government gives £1820 per student with a set number of places. This of course is absolutely unsustainable for anything other than the most basic of institutions so Universities have sought English students (£9250 a pop) and foreign non EU students (up to £24K) to cross subsidise. The Russell group members in particular have been very successful at this allowing the Universities to thrive with an ever smaller part of their cohort being made up of Scottish students.
Boris has now capped the number of English grants that will be paid to Scottish Universities and the foreigners are not coming because of Covid. The Scottish Government is not able to increase the number of places it funds because it has no money. I am not sure whether the likes of Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive. It really depends on how long the foreign market takes to recover but the clock is ticking
.
Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive if the become pro-Scottish. If they don’t, they won’t.
That is the inevitable consequence of being national institutions funded by the taxpayer. Either you work in the broad interests of the nation or else you try your luck in the free market.
Those 3 are the only world class universities Scotland has, lose those, lose world class higher education in Scotland
Says Rupert Murdoch.
The rest of the planet does not see the world through those London-tinted spectacles that so distort your vision.
Only 2 Scottish universities in the global top 100, Edinburgh and Glasgow.
In fairness that is as many in the top 50 as the entire EU. It's almost as if there was a link between adequately funding Universities and their performance, isn't it?
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
That's absolutely not true, the government has strengthened racial hatred laws plenty of times as a response.
Not only is the silence from Labour on racial abuse of minorities that don't vote for them deafening the abuse is also being directed towards us by Labour MPs.
They hate us because we're successful. Think about that for a minute. What other people have been hated all over Europe because they were successful?
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Indeed. And it could only be extreme anger that that led the cartoonist to come up with such an image.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial
But they're not "bending the knee, they're taking a knee
It's a totally different thing, for a totally different reason.
Raab remains an idiot.
BB is just trying to stir up the culture war again as it's a wonderful distraction from the continuing incompetence of the government he supports. Straight out of Trump's playbook.
With every PL football team taking the knee comments like BB's just look idiotic. Did they learn nothing from the Rashford incident. Far more people will take their lead from PL footballers than an arrogant lightweight like Raab.
Ah yes, people should take their lead from unelected footballers. Good to know that you've given away any right to complain about government via 'populism' ever again.
And in case you haven't been paying attention, it was the protesters who started the culture war, and who are pressing ever forwards with it.
I am simply pointing out that PL teams taking the knee makes your subjugation meme look like the bollox it is.
Eh? All it shows is they're virtue-signalling idiots who don't know what the gesture means, in the same way they know little about anything other than kicking a football.
Strange then that a day of pressure from Marcus Rashford had Johnson spinning like a top and u-t urning in a matter of hours.
All PL players are "virtue signalling idiots" and Raab is the man. Good look selling that one to the great British public.
HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.
This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.
Be comforted by the £1m paint job of Britola Gay.
Before you start criticising Boris , what about the billions wasted on ludicrously large aircraft carriers that our planes can not land on.. How much was it 9 billion>?>?.. Lets not go there with the NHS Computer debacle either...
I criticise all three shit decisions, and plenty more. Whats wrong with doing that?
Dura is on Boris's case.. just pointing out all Govts make shit decisions. none worse than the Labour Party allowing the loon Brown to become PM. He fecked the economy for generations.
You can blame the Govt of the day for how it has handled elements of the COVID 19 crisis, but the cost is largely unavoidable/
Rather than reclassifying defence as aid, we should be going the other way. The spending we make on pandemic preparedness, improving the health systems of developing countries to detect infectious diseases do more for actually defending the UK public than aircraft carriers.
Or Trident. As I pointed out above, the most powerful man in the world isn't even aware we have it.
Some deterrent...
... If we were to very quietly cancel the program, would anyone notice ?
I think the flag waving statue defenders would happily turn their efforts to saving our proud British deterrent.
Putin is an ar$e though right? goodness knows what he might try on of we weren't packing.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial
But they're not "bending the knee, they're taking a knee
It's a totally different thing, for a totally different reason.
Raab remains an idiot.
I agree. It`s not the same thing. It`s to show sympathy and solidarity with the disgusting killing of Floyd, mirroring the method of his death.
Raab is right not to do it though. Like me he will feel awful about the death of Floyd but will not feel the need to demonstrate this graphically.
It really isn't that because this taking a knee predated Floyd's murder by some years (although I accept that there is a horrible symmetry). What I understood that the NFL players were seeking to show was both that they considered their race to still be treated as second rate citizens (where there is a GOT echo) and regret that their country did not live up to its declared aspirations in this respect.
Which is fair enough. What it has to do with EPL footballers last night I am not really sure.
OK - I stand corrected - I admit I`d never heard of, or seen, "taking the knee" and had assumed that it was invented to mirror that of the killer cop. Coincidence then. Surely the cop`s weapon of choice was not a lampoon of the action? Am I reading too much into this?
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial
But they're not "bending the knee, they're taking a knee
It's a totally different thing, for a totally different reason.
Raab remains an idiot.
BB is just trying to stir up the culture war again as it's a wonderful distraction from the continuing incompetence of the government he supports. Straight out of Trump's playbook.
With every PL football team taking the knee comments like BB's just look idiotic. Did they learn nothing from the Rashford incident. Far more people will take their lead from PL footballers than an arrogant lightweight like Raab.
Ah yes, people should take their lead from unelected footballers. Good to know that you've given away any right to complain about government via 'populism' ever again.
And in case you haven't been paying attention, it was the protesters who started the culture war, and who are pressing ever forwards with it.
I am simply pointing out that PL teams taking the knee makes your subjugation meme look like the bollox it is.
Eh? All it shows is they're virtue-signalling idiots who don't know what the gesture means, in the same way they know little about anything other than kicking a football.
Strange then that a day of pressure from Marcus Rashford had Johnson spinning like a top and u-t urning in a matter of hours.
All PL players are "virtue signalling idiots" and Raab is the man. Good look selling that one to the great British public.
Oh, yes I forgot - they also know how to spend taxpayers' money for them, despite earning tens of millions a year each...
On topic, at what point can Trump decide he doesn't want to stand?
If he looks like losing "bigly" would he just walk away from the contest?
That would be such (!) a cheat. Like feigning injury when you're 0/5 love 30 in the 5th. Really hope he doesn't do that. Don't think he will. He'll want to do some rallies and stuff, some negative on Biden, a TV debate, keep a hold of the spotlight to the end, see how it all shakes out.
I`ve said this repeatedly for months. Lay Trump for Next President rather than back Biden or Dems to win. The odds are only marginally inferior and you win if Trump doesn`t stand regardless of what happens in the GE.
I`ve thought for months that he may petulantly jack it when he becomes convinced he can`t win. He won`t care about leaving the Reps in a bind.
You have indeed made this point before. I personally don't see it - I just think he'll want that campaign high again, the MAGA rallies, the adoration from the fanbase - but I agree with lay Trump being better than back Biden. It covers both your scenario AND the one where Biden has a medical issue and is replaced.
Yes, I would agree on the laying Trump angle is the better bet option. Like Kinablu, I don't think he will step down and I think the talk of a $1trn infrastructure plan is a sign of that as it will be his showcase project for a second term.
Another bet to consider, if you think Harris or Warren is the VP choice, is to back either at 100/1 to be the Democrat nominee for next President, effectively taking a bet that Biden has to step down for health issues. Given Harris is 10/11 at Ladbrokes for being the VP nomination, that looks attractive (the only thing I don't know though is what happens if Biden is nominated at the convention but steps down afterwards and the VP pick picks up the mantle - for betting purposes, are they considered the nominee?)
I find it hilarious that the right wing (who are in power at the moment both here and in the USA, don't forget) keep on moaning about some alleged culture war, when it seems to me that it is they who are provoking it.
Just on this site we've had "woke" people decribed as the Gestapo. We've had BLM demonstrators described as "savages". We've now got "Hinduphobia" from the Spectator and others, the same people who have always said that "Islamophobia" was a fiction, a term used to suppress debate.
And the word "marxists" is bandied about willy nilly by people who clearly don't know what marxism is, about people who also don't know, or care, what marxism is. Unless of course "woke" premier league footballers (largely of working class origin) are taking the knee following a considered interpretation of the writings of Marx. And then we've got the ludicrous assertion that universities are indoctrinating their students into left-wing identitarian politics, when anybody with any sense knows that most students are pretty much the same as ever - largely apathetic, with a small minority of activitists.
I could go on. It does strike me that right-wing people must be feeling very insecure at the moment.
Same with Rishi Sunak, Munira Mirza, Kemi Badenoch, Shaun Bailey, Alok Sharma, Bim Afolami, Kwasi Kwarteng, Sajid Javid and many more.
I don't doubt that ethnic group (and also probably sex) plays a part for some Patel-critics, but it's wrong to say that any critic of Patel is racist/anti-Hindu/whatever.
Patel is the only person on that list whom I dislike and think is unfit for high office (based on past actions and stated views). I don't know much about Mirza to have a strong view on her, nor Bim Afolami. The others I believe to be decent enough people, even though I would disagree with some of them politically.
It's perfectly fine to call out Priti Patel for her actions as a politician, just as it's perfectly fine to call out Diane Abbot for hers, without being racist about it.
Comments such as a cartoon showing her as a cow (in the Guardian this week), or as a coconut in a coconut shy, letters telling her to f*** off back to India or to her parents' corner shop are all blatantly racist and need to be called out as such.
Agree. I didn't actually pick out the reference in the cow cartoon when I saw it (I did not know Patel was Hindu - never given it any thought, nor care) but it's shocking, if intended (and crass, if not, to the extent that it should be withdrawn with apology). I don't tend to pay any attention to Bell's cartoons because whatever level they're funny/sharp on passes me by.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
It's the racist identitarian left starting to move Hindus into the same group as Jews, and we all saw where that went over the past few years.
It's also this sort of attitude that leads to the abandonment of the white working class, as they don't believe that anyone white can be anything except an oppressor - tell that the the young girls of Rotherham. Yet Labour seemed awfully surprised when large parts of the WWC voted Conservative last time out.
HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.
This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.
Be comforted by the £1m paint job of Britola Gay.
Before you start criticising Boris , what about the billions wasted on ludicrously large aircraft carriers that our planes can not land on.. How much was it 9 billion>?>?.. Lets not go there with the NHS Computer debacle either...
I criticise all three shit decisions, and plenty more. Whats wrong with doing that?
Dura is on Boris's case.. just pointing out all Govts make shit decisions. none worse than the Labour Party allowing the loon Brown to become PM. He fecked the economy for generations.
You can blame the Govt of the day for how it has handled elements of the COVID 19 crisis, but the cost is largely unavoidable/
Rather than reclassifying defence as aid, we should be going the other way. The spending we make on pandemic preparedness, improving the health systems of developing countries to detect infectious diseases do more for actually defending the UK public than aircraft carriers.
Or Trident. As I pointed out above, the most powerful man in the world isn't even aware we have it.
Some deterrent...
... If we were to very quietly cancel the program, would anyone notice ?
I think the flag waving statue defenders would happily turn their efforts to saving our proud British deterrent.
Putin is an ar$e though right? goodness knows what he might try on of we weren't packing.
Yep, it's only us having a nuclear sock down our trousers that has kept Europe from being overwhelmed.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Indeed. And it could only be extreme anger that that led the cartoonist to come up with such an image.
I think that it has to do with the following issue -
1) Lefties have become very close to certain cultures/issues 2) Because of the doctrine of privilege they do not believe that minorities can be racist 3) They absorb by association, ideas and beliefs. Examples of this include attacking "The Jews" when they mean "Israel". This is pretty standard thinking in most of the Middle East. 4) They repeat what they have picked up, since it can't possibly be racist.
OK - I stand corrected - I admit I`d never heard of, or seen, "taking the knee" and had assumed that it was invented to mirror that of the killer cop. Coincidence then. Surely the cop`s weapon of choice was not a lampoon of the action? Am I reading too much into this?
Yes. And so is everyone else.
All these people are doing is showing support and solidarity with each other. The gesture selected is unimportant. They could, for instance, clap.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
On topic, at what point can Trump decide he doesn't want to stand?
If he looks like losing "bigly" would he just walk away from the contest?
That would be such (!) a cheat. Like feigning injury when you're 0/5 love 30 in the 5th. Really hope he doesn't do that. Don't think he will. He'll want to do some rallies and stuff, some negative on Biden, a TV debate, keep a hold of the spotlight to the end, see how it all shakes out.
I`ve said this repeatedly for months. Lay Trump for Next President rather than back Biden or Dems to win. The odds are only marginally inferior and you win if Trump doesn`t stand regardless of what happens in the GE.
I`ve thought for months that he may petulantly jack it when he becomes convinced he can`t win. He won`t care about leaving the Reps in a bind.
You have indeed made this point before. I personally don't see it - I just think he'll want that campaign high again, the MAGA rallies, the adoration from the fanbase - but I agree with lay Trump being better than back Biden. It covers both your scenario AND the one where Biden has a medical issue and is replaced.
Yes, I would agree on the laying Trump angle is the better bet option. Like Kinablu, I don't think he will step down and I think the talk of a $1trn infrastructure plan is a sign of that as it will be his showcase project for a second term.
Another bet to consider, if you think Harris or Warren is the VP choice, is to back either at 100/1 to be the Democrat nominee for next President, effectively taking a bet that Biden has to step down for health issues. Given Harris is 10/11 at Ladbrokes for being the VP nomination, that looks attractive (the only thing I don't know though is what happens if Biden is nominated at the convention but steps down afterwards and the VP pick picks up the mantle - for betting purposes, are they considered the nominee?)
Yes, I`d already thought of that - but didn`t go ahead cus BF rules say:
"This market will be settled on the candidate voted to be the Democratic Party nominee as a result of the 2020 Democratic National Convention."
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
Nothing is forced but I 100% would "take the knee" against racism in the same way as I clapped for carers. Symbolic gestures, but symbolism matters sometimes.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial
But they're not "bending the knee, they're taking a knee
It's a totally different thing, for a totally different reason.
Raab remains an idiot.
I agree. It`s not the same thing. It`s to show sympathy and solidarity with the disgusting killing of Floyd, mirroring the method of his death.
Raab is right not to do it though. Like me he will feel awful about the death of Floyd but will not feel the need to demonstrate this graphically.
It really isn't that because this taking a knee predated Floyd's murder by some years (although I accept that there is a horrible symmetry). What I understood that the NFL players were seeking to show was both that they considered their race to still be treated as second rate citizens (where there is a GOT echo) and regret that their country did not live up to its declared aspirations in this respect.
Which is fair enough. What it has to do with EPL footballers last night I am not really sure.
OK - I stand corrected - I admit I`d never heard of, or seen, "taking the knee" and had assumed that it was invented to mirror that of the killer cop. Coincidence then. Surely the cop`s weapon of choice was not a lampoon of the action? Am I reading too much into this?
Who knows what that arsehole was thinking (I use the term loosely) for more than 8 minutes. The kneeing thing certainly got a boost from that execution so the confusion is understandable.
I just find it weird that a meme that is so much about the US and its very particular problems has got such traction over here. This is not to say we don't have our own race problems, we clearly do, but they are different in scale and character.
OK - I stand corrected - I admit I`d never heard of, or seen, "taking the knee" and had assumed that it was invented to mirror that of the killer cop. Coincidence then. Surely the cop`s weapon of choice was not a lampoon of the action? Am I reading too much into this?
Yes. And so is everyone else.
All these people are doing is showing support and solidarity with each other. The gesture selected is unimportant. They could, for instance, clap.
Well I`ll be agreeing with those who are appalled by the killing but I shan`t be kneeling or clapping. Is that OK these days?
Sorry to be an idiot, but why did Kopernick & Co choose kneeling as their method of demonstration?
He started off sitting on the bench during the national anthem as a protest but was told that sitting during the anthem was disrespecful - so after discussion with veterans groups came with the idea of kneeling during the anthem instead - as both a symbolic gesture and simultaneously still being respectful to the anthem.
Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.
They actually have bigger problems, certainly in Scotland where the Universities are facing a complete shit storm.
The Scottish government gives £1820 per student with a set number of places. This of course is absolutely unsustainable for anything other than the most basic of institutions so Universities have sought English students (£9250 a pop) and foreign non EU students (up to £24K) to cross subsidise. The Russell group members in particular have been very successful at this allowing the Universities to thrive with an ever smaller part of their cohort being made up of Scottish students.
Boris has now capped the number of English grants that will be paid to Scottish Universities and the foreigners are not coming because of Covid. The Scottish Government is not able to increase the number of places it funds because it has no money. I am not sure whether the likes of Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive. It really depends on how long the foreign market takes to recover but the clock is ticking
.
It is a shitstorm. In my opinion these universities should give up chasing "global excellence" and instead go for efficiency - educating the masses, to an acceptable standard, as cheaply as possible. This was the "education factory" policy followed by Ireland when it was trying catch the first wave of globalisation in the 1980's. It was also the ethos of Edinburgh and Glasgow universities when they were (re)founded in the Reformation, in contrast to the expensive college based systems in St Andrews, Oxford and Cambridge. It meant that David Livingston, son of a poor millworker, could turn up in Glasgow with a bag of oatmeal, find a place to doss down and qualify to be a doctor almost for free.
On topic, at what point can Trump decide he doesn't want to stand?
If he looks like losing "bigly" would he just walk away from the contest?
That would be such (!) a cheat. Like feigning injury when you're 0/5 love 30 in the 5th. Really hope he doesn't do that. Don't think he will. He'll want to do some rallies and stuff, some negative on Biden, a TV debate, keep a hold of the spotlight to the end, see how it all shakes out.
I`ve said this repeatedly for months. Lay Trump for Next President rather than back Biden or Dems to win. The odds are only marginally inferior and you win if Trump doesn`t stand regardless of what happens in the GE.
I`ve thought for months that he may petulantly jack it when he becomes convinced he can`t win. He won`t care about leaving the Reps in a bind.
You have indeed made this point before. I personally don't see it - I just think he'll want that campaign high again, the MAGA rallies, the adoration from the fanbase - but I agree with lay Trump being better than back Biden. It covers both your scenario AND the one where Biden has a medical issue and is replaced.
Yes, I would agree on the laying Trump angle is the better bet option. Like Kinablu, I don't think he will step down and I think the talk of a $1trn infrastructure plan is a sign of that as it will be his showcase project for a second term.
Another bet to consider, if you think Harris or Warren is the VP choice, is to back either at 100/1 to be the Democrat nominee for next President, effectively taking a bet that Biden has to step down for health issues. Given Harris is 10/11 at Ladbrokes for being the VP nomination, that looks attractive (the only thing I don't know though is what happens if Biden is nominated at the convention but steps down afterwards and the VP pick picks up the mantle - for betting purposes, are they considered the nominee?)
Yes, I`d already thought of that - but didn`t go ahead cus BF rules say:
"This market will be settled on the candidate voted to be the Democratic Party nominee as a result of the 2020 Democratic National Convention."
That is a very important point -- betting on who is nominated in August is not the same as betting on who runs in November, or who is inaugurated in January.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
That's absolutely not true, the government has strengthened racial hatred laws plenty of times as a response.
Not only is the silence from Labour on racial abuse of minorities that don't vote for them deafening the abuse is also being directed towards us by Labour MPs.
They hate us because we're successful. Think about that for a minute. What other people have been hated all over Europe because they were successful?
The one thing I never hear from BLM is self criticism. The under-performance of the black community in some spheres (if that even exists) MUST be solely down to racism. It cannot in any way be down to the attitudes and culture of that community even partially. It is a perfect community.
The spectacular success of other BAME communities totally undermines that argument, and that is one reason why Patel and co are so hated.
Mr. xP, kneeling can also occur at marriage proposals and when being knighted. I didn't say he was swearing fealty. I said that when he was kneeling, he was kneeling.
Given that the UK chapter of BLM favours dismantling capitalism, patriarchy, and British institutions, it would be a very strange Conservative minister who expressed solidarity with them.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
Mr. xP, kneeling can also occur at marriage proposals and when being knighted. I didn't say he was swearing fealty. I said that when he was kneeling, he was kneeling.
Given that the UK chapter of BLM favours dismantling capitalism, patriarchy, and British institutions, it would be a very strange Conservative minister who expressed solidarity with them.
You can kneel against racism without supporting that.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
Not only that but when called out on it, for what it plainly is, they just double down on it.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
It is extremely concerning that the Foreign Secretary of all people isn't aware of Kaepernick after all that has happened.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
Or talented
I have a collection of his old cartoons from the 80s. The number of times he was absolutely certain that the Conservatives were going to be booted out of office to make way for a socialist paradise, only for him to rage in blind fury when it failed to happen again and again, is utterly hilarious and funnier than any cartoon he ever drew...
OK - I stand corrected - I admit I`d never heard of, or seen, "taking the knee" and had assumed that it was invented to mirror that of the killer cop. Coincidence then. Surely the cop`s weapon of choice was not a lampoon of the action? Am I reading too much into this?
Yes. And so is everyone else.
All these people are doing is showing support and solidarity with each other. The gesture selected is unimportant. They could, for instance, clap.
Well I`ll be agreeing with those who are appalled by the killing but I shan`t be kneeling or clapping. Is that OK these days?
Yes of course. I did not clap for the NHS. I have too many historical issues with them and their attitude (which I will not be expanding on in here)
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
That's absolutely not true, the government has strengthened racial hatred laws plenty of times as a response.
Not only is the silence from Labour on racial abuse of minorities that don't vote for them deafening the abuse is also being directed towards us by Labour MPs.
They hate us because we're successful. Think about that for a minute. What other people have been hated all over Europe because they were successful?
The one thing I never hear from BLM is self criticism. The under-performance of the black community in some spheres (if that even exists) MUST be solely down to racism. It cannot in any way be down to the attitudes and culture of that community even partially. It is a perfect community.
The spectacular success of other BAME communities totally undermines that argument, and that is one reason why Patel and co are so hated.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Take away the pegs of valid concerns that some have - and there are some valid concerns in this country even if nothing like America - and don't give any succour to nonsense.
When you start to ignore the legitimate concerns, that is when things fester and get worse.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial
But they're not "bending the knee, they're taking a knee
It's a totally different thing, for a totally different reason.
Raab remains an idiot.
BB is just trying to stir up the culture war again as it's a wonderful distraction from the continuing incompetence of the government he supports. Straight out of Trump's playbook.
With every PL football team taking the knee comments like BB's just look idiotic. Did they learn nothing from the Rashford incident. Far more people will take their lead from PL footballers than an arrogant lightweight like Raab.
Ah yes, people should take their lead from unelected footballers. Good to know that you've given away any right to complain about government via 'populism' ever again.
And in case you haven't been paying attention, it was the protesters who started the culture war, and who are pressing ever forwards with it.
I am simply pointing out that PL teams taking the knee makes your subjugation meme look like the bollox it is.
Eh? All it shows is they're virtue-signalling idiots who don't know what the gesture means, in the same way they know little about anything other than kicking a football.
Strange then that a day of pressure from Marcus Rashford had Johnson spinning like a top and u-t urning in a matter of hours.
All PL players are "virtue signalling idiots" and Raab is the man. Good look selling that one to the great British public.
Oh, yes I forgot - they also know how to spend taxpayers' money for them, despite earning tens of millions a year each...
I am no admirer of PL footballers as a group but I am realistic enough to know that an utterance from Harry Kane or Marcus Rashford has much more impact on the great British public than anything Raab has to say for himself.
How many millions be watching football this weekend and seeing all their hero's taking the knee? How many will have watched Raab's video?
I think Raab is entirely within his rights to refuse to take the knee but he can't complain if people draw their own conclusions about why.
The study also found that people who use social media to find information on the virus are more likely to have broken lockdown rules that have been enforced in an effort to contain it. Researchers said 58% of those who had gone outside with Covid-19 symptoms use YouTube as their main information source, much higher than the 16% who haven’t. And 37% of people who have had friends or family visit them in their home cite Facebook as a key source, compared to 23% of those who haven’t.
“This is not surprising, given that so much of the information on social media is misleading or downright wrong,” said Daniel Allington, senior lecturer in social and cultural artificial intelligence at King’s College London.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
The 2nd interesting story on More or Less was looking at the assertion that most people who have died would have died anyway in a few months of something else.
Not true. Typically an 80 year old will live for 10 years more and will have a number of health issues i.e. the very people who are being described as only having a few months to live.
To take an extreme example - An 80 year old man who smokes, who is obese and has heart disease has an additionally life expectancy of 5 years!
You do get some striking results from life expectancy algorithms. You have longer left than you think, is the general rule. Mine gives 82 which is quite amazing. I'd take that.
Also, regarding long life, I came across an interesting nugget the other day -
A study was apparently done a while back of a large number of men in good health aged 60, who were assessed and interviewed, then tracked as to how long they lived. The data was reviewed to see if there was anything other than the obvious (no smoking, no heavy drinking etc) which was a predictor of a long life - defined here as making at least 90.
And there was. There was a factor which stood out a mile and this was the ability to stand on your head for 15 minutes. All of the 60 year olds who could do this lived beyond 90 - and those who not only could do it but actually made a practice of doing it every day as part of their normal routine lived the longest of all, often into their late 90s and beyond.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
Or talented
I have a collection of his old cartoons from the 80s. The number of times he was absolutely certain that the Conservatives were going to be booted out of office to make way for a socialist paradise, only for him to rage in blind fury when it failed to happen again and again, is utterly hilarious and funnier than any cartoon he ever drew...
Gerald Scarfe was the same only more so. There was a spot on parody in Private Eye with the caption "This is Mrs. Thatcher. I hate her."
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
If the same cartoon was a Muslim minister drawn as a pig it would be rightly condemned. That the guardian has chosen to turn a blind eye to their own racism is not surprising to anyone that has been paying attention to their equivocation on anti-Semitism by Labour.
As I said, the left hates us because we're successful and now very noticeably at the top of a right wing government.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Same with Rishi Sunak, Munira Mirza, Kemi Badenoch, Shaun Bailey, Alok Sharma, Bim Afolami, Kwasi Kwarteng, Sajid Javid and many more.
I don't doubt that ethnic group (and also probably sex) plays a part for some Patel-critics, but it's wrong to say that any critic of Patel is racist/anti-Hindu/whatever.
Patel is the only person on that list whom I dislike and think is unfit for high office (based on past actions and stated views). I don't know much about Mirza to have a strong view on her, nor Bim Afolami. The others I believe to be decent enough people, even though I would disagree with some of them politically.
It's perfectly fine to call out Priti Patel for her actions as a politician, just as it's perfectly fine to call out Diane Abbot for hers, without being racist about it.
Comments such as a cartoon showing her as a cow (in the Guardian this week), or as a coconut in a coconut shy, letters telling her to f*** off back to India or to her parents' corner shop are all blatantly racist and need to be called out as such.
Agree. I didn't actually pick out the reference in the cow cartoon when I saw it (I did not know Patel was Hindu - never given it any thought, nor care) but it's shocking, if intended (and crass, if not, to the extent that it should be withdrawn with apology). I don't tend to pay any attention to Bell's cartoons because whatever level they're funny/sharp on passes me by.
Most of us, I think. He was occasionally quite funny back in the early 80s. but I've avoided his stuff for decades now.
A genuine talent curdled by hatred. And the Patel cartoon - I'm pretty sure intended - just disgusting.
Anyone share my theory that 0-0 draws in football matches are slightly more likely with no crowd present?
There was a really interesting stat last night about the Bundesleague. Apparently, without crowds there had been 11 home wins and 26 away wins. Small sample but good evidence that the crowd really do make a difference.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
If the same cartoon was a Muslim minister drawn as a pig it would be rightly condemned. That the guardian has chosen to turn a blind eye to their own racism is not surprising to anyone that has been paying attention to their equivocation on anti-Semitism by Labour.
As I said, the left hates us because we're successful and now very noticeably at the top of a right wing government.
The 2nd interesting story on More or Less was looking at the assertion that most people who have died would have died anyway in a few months of something else.
Not true. Typically an 80 year old will live for 10 years more and will have a number of health issues i.e. the very people who are being described as only having a few months to live.
To take an extreme example - An 80 year old man who smokes, who is obese and has heart disease has an additionally life expectancy of 5 years!
You do get some striking results from life expectancy algorithms. You have longer left than you think, is the general rule. Mine gives 82 which is quite amazing. I'd take that.
Also, regarding long life, I came across an interesting nugget the other day -
A study was apparently done a while back of a large number of men in good health aged 60, who were assessed and interviewed, then tracked as to how long they lived. The data was reviewed to see if there was anything other than the obvious (no smoking, no heavy drinking etc) which was a predictor of a long life - defined here as making at least 90.
And there was. There was a factor which stood out a mile and this was the ability to stand on your head for 15 minutes. All of the 60 year olds who could do this lived beyond 90 - and those who not only could do it but actually made a practice of doing it every day as part of their normal routine lived the longest of all, often into their late 90s and beyond.
So. Moral there.
Standing on your head? Obviously it would never work for political activists....
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
If the same cartoon was a Muslim minister drawn as a pig it would be rightly condemned. That the guardian has chosen to turn a blind eye to their own racism is not surprising to anyone that has been paying attention to their equivocation on anti-Semitism by Labour.
As I said, the left hates us because we're successful and now very noticeably at the top of a right wing government.
Hindus, Jews and East Asians are very successful and not considered "real" minorities to be included within "BAME" anymore.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
It got across the point that he was talking shite?
The 2nd interesting story on More or Less was looking at the assertion that most people who have died would have died anyway in a few months of something else.
Not true. Typically an 80 year old will live for 10 years more and will have a number of health issues i.e. the very people who are being described as only having a few months to live.
To take an extreme example - An 80 year old man who smokes, who is obese and has heart disease has an additionally life expectancy of 5 years!
You do get some striking results from life expectancy algorithms. You have longer left than you think, is the general rule. Mine gives 82 which is quite amazing. I'd take that.
Also, regarding long life, I came across an interesting nugget the other day -
A study was apparently done a while back of a large number of men in good health aged 60, who were assessed and interviewed, then tracked as to how long they lived. The data was reviewed to see if there was anything other than the obvious (no smoking, no heavy drinking etc) which was a predictor of a long life - defined here as making at least 90.
And there was. There was a factor which stood out a mile and this was the ability to stand on your head for 15 minutes. All of the 60 year olds who could do this lived beyond 90 - and those who not only could do it but actually made a practice of doing it every day as part of their normal routine lived the longest of all, often into their late 90s and beyond.
So. Moral there.
You made that up in the hope that PB tory gammons all across the country will now be balancing precariously on their skulls, didn't you?
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
The 2nd interesting story on More or Less was looking at the assertion that most people who have died would have died anyway in a few months of something else.
Not true. Typically an 80 year old will live for 10 years more and will have a number of health issues i.e. the very people who are being described as only having a few months to live.
To take an extreme example - An 80 year old man who smokes, who is obese and has heart disease has an additionally life expectancy of 5 years!
You do get some striking results from life expectancy algorithms. You have longer left than you think, is the general rule. Mine gives 82 which is quite amazing. I'd take that.
Also, regarding long life, I came across an interesting nugget the other day -
A study was apparently done a while back of a large number of men in good health aged 60, who were assessed and interviewed, then tracked as to how long they lived. The data was reviewed to see if there was anything other than the obvious (no smoking, no heavy drinking etc) which was a predictor of a long life - defined here as making at least 90.
And there was. There was a factor which stood out a mile and this was the ability to stand on your head for 15 minutes. All of the 60 year olds who could do this lived beyond 90 - and those who not only could do it but actually made a practice of doing it every day as part of their normal routine lived the longest of all, often into their late 90s and beyond.
The 2nd interesting story on More or Less was looking at the assertion that most people who have died would have died anyway in a few months of something else.
Not true. Typically an 80 year old will live for 10 years more and will have a number of health issues i.e. the very people who are being described as only having a few months to live.
To take an extreme example - An 80 year old man who smokes, who is obese and has heart disease has an additionally life expectancy of 5 years!
You do get some striking results from life expectancy algorithms. You have longer left than you think, is the general rule. Mine gives 82 which is quite amazing. I'd take that.
Also, regarding long life, I came across an interesting nugget the other day -
A study was apparently done a while back of a large number of men in good health aged 60, who were assessed and interviewed, then tracked as to how long they lived. The data was reviewed to see if there was anything other than the obvious (no smoking, no heavy drinking etc) which was a predictor of a long life - defined here as making at least 90.
And there was. There was a factor which stood out a mile and this was the ability to stand on your head for 15 minutes. All of the 60 year olds who could do this lived beyond 90 - and those who not only could do it but actually made a practice of doing it every day as part of their normal routine lived the longest of all, often into their late 90s and beyond.
So. Moral there.
You made that up in the hope that PB tory gammons all across the country will now be balancing precariously on their skulls, didn't you?
Not easy, typing upside down.
15 minutes may be unwise medically. Would make your face gammony red for sure.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
Christ, this is unbelievable, I have found myself agreeing with Kinablu twice in a morning. Yes, GoT has a disproportionate following amongst media types / higher income households but, if you want a wider and more normal programme to reference, do Coronation Street or Emmerdale.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
If the same cartoon was a Muslim minister drawn as a pig it would be rightly condemned. That the guardian has chosen to turn a blind eye to their own racism is not surprising to anyone that has been paying attention to their equivocation on anti-Semitism by Labour.
As I said, the left hates us because we're successful and now very noticeably at the top of a right wing government.
I don't hate you, Max. I really don't.
Am I the wrong sort of Left?
You're fellow travellers revel in equivocating about racism levelled at people like me.
Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.
They actually have bigger problems, certainly in Scotland where the Universities are facing a complete shit storm.
The Scottish government gives £1820 per student with a set number of places. This of course is absolutely unsustainable for anything other than the most basic of institutions so Universities have sought English students (£9250 a pop) and foreign non EU students (up to £24K) to cross subsidise. The Russell group members in particular have been very successful at this allowing the Universities to thrive with an ever smaller part of their cohort being made up of Scottish students.
Boris has now capped the number of English grants that will be paid to Scottish Universities and the foreigners are not coming because of Covid. The Scottish Government is not able to increase the number of places it funds because it has no money. I am not sure whether the likes of Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive. It really depends on how long the foreign market takes to recover but the clock is ticking
.
It is a shitstorm. In my opinion these universities should give up chasing "global excellence" and instead go for efficiency - educating the masses, to an acceptable standard, as cheaply as possible. This was the "education factory" policy followed by Ireland when it was trying catch the first wave of globalisation in the 1980's. It was also the ethos of Edinburgh and Glasgow universities when they were (re)founded in the Reformation, in contrast to the expensive college based systems in St Andrews, Oxford and Cambridge. It meant that David Livingston, son of a poor millworker, could turn up in Glasgow with a bag of oatmeal, find a place to doss down and qualify to be a doctor almost for free.
I have absolutely no problem with education being a successful export business for this country. The spin off benefits for UK plc are immense. Indeed I would go so far as to say that our elite Universities are one of our most important industries.
Comments
Again the double counting cropped up in a different guise and this time the double counting has really screwed up the information for anyone trying to defend it.
This time it was the 'test and track' and the confusion of why so many had not been tracked. I remember on the day the discrepancy was given as due to people not responding or not being found. But this isn't the case. Firstly the non England figures have to be removed as they are not included in the stats, but that still left only 8000 from 12000 cases tracked.
It appears that 4000 of those 8000 had taken 2 tests and you only need to track someone once. So it isn't 12000 but actually only 8000.
See what happens when you test someone twice and count it as two tests! You cause utter confusion.
So the immediate response was this is good news then; only 8000 and not 12000 cases. But no, because the random testing shows there are 30,000 odd cases so it means you have just picked up a smaller number. The cases hasn't changed, you have just found less.
The information being given out at these daily briefings was crap and is still crap. At least this time not deliberately so.
It was and is one of Labours and Harold Wilson's great achievements.
Giving many a first chance and many others a second chance at education.
As you say I was sorry to see the course fees had increased so much.Preventing many having the opportunity I had.
Edinburgh the only Scottish university in the top 50
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2020/world-ranking#!/page/4/length/25/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats
Scotland’s benchmark is real.
Your’s is imaginary.
https://twitter.com/konotarogomame/status/1273175893884755969?s=19
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this, without being called out for it being blatantly racist?
Not true. Typically an 80 year old will live for 10 years more and will have a number of health issues i.e. the very people who are being described as only having a few months to live.
To take an extreme example - An 80 year old man who smokes, who is obese and has heart disease has an additionally life expectancy of 5 years!
The rest of the planet does not see the world through those London-tinted spectacles that so distort your vision.
Which is fair enough. What it has to do with EPL footballers last night I am not really sure.
But Scotland only has one in the top 50.
4 - Oxford
7 - Cambridge
8 - UCL
9 - Imperial
20- Edinburgh
27 - Manchester
33 - Kings
44 - LSE
49 - Bristol
62 - Warwick
67 - Glasgow
78 - Durham / Sheffield
81 - Birmingham
93 - Leeds
96 - Nottingham
97 - Southampton
100 - St Andrews
https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2020
It is a relief to take the first steps but there is a wary attitude and social distancing was uppermost in my mind
Not only is the silence from Labour on racial abuse of minorities that don't vote for them deafening the abuse is also being directed towards us by Labour MPs.
They hate us because we're successful. Think about that for a minute. What other people have been hated all over Europe because they were successful?
All PL players are "virtue signalling idiots" and Raab is the man. Good look selling that one to the great British public.
Another bet to consider, if you think Harris or Warren is the VP choice, is to back either at 100/1 to be the Democrat nominee for next President, effectively taking a bet that Biden has to step down for health issues. Given Harris is 10/11 at Ladbrokes for being the VP nomination, that looks attractive (the only thing I don't know though is what happens if Biden is nominated at the convention but steps down afterwards and the VP pick picks up the mantle - for betting purposes, are they considered the nominee?)
Just on this site we've had "woke" people decribed as the Gestapo. We've had BLM demonstrators described as "savages". We've now got "Hinduphobia" from the Spectator and others, the same people who have always said that "Islamophobia" was a fiction, a term used to suppress debate.
And the word "marxists" is bandied about willy nilly by people who clearly don't know what marxism is, about people who also don't know, or care, what marxism is. Unless of course "woke" premier league footballers (largely of working class origin) are taking the knee following a considered interpretation of the writings of Marx. And then we've got the ludicrous assertion that universities are indoctrinating their students into left-wing identitarian politics, when anybody with any sense knows that most students are pretty much the same as ever - largely apathetic, with a small minority of activitists.
I could go on. It does strike me that right-wing people must be feeling very insecure at the moment.
It's also this sort of attitude that leads to the abandonment of the white working class, as they don't believe that anyone white can be anything except an oppressor - tell that the the young girls of Rotherham. Yet Labour seemed awfully surprised when large parts of the WWC voted Conservative last time out.
1) Lefties have become very close to certain cultures/issues
2) Because of the doctrine of privilege they do not believe that minorities can be racist
3) They absorb by association, ideas and beliefs. Examples of this include attacking "The Jews" when they mean "Israel". This is pretty standard thinking in most of the Middle East.
4) They repeat what they have picked up, since it can't possibly be racist.
All these people are doing is showing support and solidarity with each other. The gesture selected is unimportant. They could, for instance, clap.
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
"This market will be settled on the candidate voted to be the Democratic Party nominee as a result of the 2020 Democratic National Convention."
Any new polls out this weekend?
I just find it weird that a meme that is so much about the US and its very particular problems has got such traction over here. This is not to say we don't have our own race problems, we clearly do, but they are different in scale and character.
The spectacular success of other BAME communities totally undermines that argument, and that is one reason why Patel and co are so hated.
https://twitter.com/FranceintheUK/status/1273540302876413952?s=20
BC News - Enslaved African man's headstone in Bristol vandalised
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53089528
Take away the pegs of valid concerns that some have - and there are some valid concerns in this country even if nothing like America - and don't give any succour to nonsense.
When you start to ignore the legitimate concerns, that is when things fester and get worse.
How many millions be watching football this weekend and seeing all their hero's taking the knee? How many will have watched Raab's video?
I think Raab is entirely within his rights to refuse to take the knee but he can't complain if people draw their own conclusions about why.
The study also found that people who use social media to find information on the virus are more likely to have broken lockdown rules that have been enforced in an effort to contain it. Researchers said 58% of those who had gone outside with Covid-19 symptoms use YouTube as their main information source, much higher than the 16% who haven’t. And 37% of people who have had friends or family visit them in their home cite Facebook as a key source, compared to 23% of those who haven’t.
“This is not surprising, given that so much of the information on social media is misleading or downright wrong,” said Daniel Allington, senior lecturer in social and cultural artificial intelligence at King’s College London.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/17/social-media-usage-linked-to-belief-in-coronavirus-conspiracy-theories.html
Darwin walks among us yet.....
Also, regarding long life, I came across an interesting nugget the other day -
A study was apparently done a while back of a large number of men in good health aged 60, who were assessed and interviewed, then tracked as to how long they lived. The data was reviewed to see if there was anything other than the obvious (no smoking, no heavy drinking etc) which was a predictor of a long life - defined here as making at least 90.
And there was. There was a factor which stood out a mile and this was the ability to stand on your head for 15 minutes. All of the 60 year olds who could do this lived beyond 90 - and those who not only could do it but actually made a practice of doing it every day as part of their normal routine lived the longest of all, often into their late 90s and beyond.
So. Moral there.
As I said, the left hates us because we're successful and now very noticeably at the top of a right wing government.
He was occasionally quite funny back in the early 80s. but I've avoided his stuff for decades now.
A genuine talent curdled by hatred.
And the Patel cartoon - I'm pretty sure intended - just disgusting.
Am I the wrong sort of Left?
I don't know why I am so surprised.
Not easy, typing upside down.
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
Its not particularly funny. True of almost anything Bell has ever drawn.
There is only one funny political cartoonist: Matt.