Mr. xP, kneeling can also occur at marriage proposals and when being knighted. I didn't say he was swearing fealty. I said that when he was kneeling, he was kneeling.
Given that the UK chapter of BLM favours dismantling capitalism, patriarchy, and British institutions, it would be a very strange Conservative minister who expressed solidarity with them.
Raab is right not to do it if he doesn't want to. It would look phony and forced. The sort of thing which detracts from the cause rather than helps it.
But he has spoilt things somewhat by talking utter bollox about "kneeling" and "Game of Thrones". Why not say he is "not up for token gestures" rather than just not up for THIS token gesture?
As it is, it begs the obvious question -
"Ok, Dom, understood, kneeling is a no no, except to the Queen, so how about doing something else to demonstrate your anti-racist credentials? Something that does not make you think of Her Majesty or Game of Thrones. Like - yes this would surely work - how about you put a black glove on, lower your eyes to the floor, and raise a fist? Cool with that?"
See what I mean? - He is being a bit of a plonker, I'm afraid.
How about something old fashioned and just saying you do not support racism? Not sure this insistence on some kind of body sign is necessary .Hitler used to like nazi salutes by sportspeople and we have sensibly moved away from forced (or coerced ) symbolism in the last 80 years only to have it thrust upon us again. It may come down to Amercians being a bit more show off than the British . Given we are trying to not import their race relations it seems odd we have to do some kind of sign be it kneeling, fist raising etc
That was my point exactly. Say he is anti-racism but is not up for token gestures. Instead we get the "Game of Thrones" dog whistling crap.
It's becoming so so boring all of this culture war baloney. People creating enormous imaginary worlds that exist almost exclusively on the internet.
I think the Reds and the Patrouille should do an 8 vs 8 furball over London rather than a fly over. The Hawk has the throttle response of a lawnmower but the Alpha will depart to a spin without great provocation so it would be a square go.
Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.
They actually have bigger problems, certainly in Scotland where the Universities are facing a complete shit storm.
The Scottish government gives £1820 per student with a set number of places. This of course is absolutely unsustainable for anything other than the most basic of institutions so Universities have sought English students (£9250 a pop) and foreign non EU students (up to £24K) to cross subsidise. The Russell group members in particular have been very successful at this allowing the Universities to thrive with an ever smaller part of their cohort being made up of Scottish students.
Boris has now capped the number of English grants that will be paid to Scottish Universities and the foreigners are not coming because of Covid. The Scottish Government is not able to increase the number of places it funds because it has no money. I am not sure whether the likes of Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive. It really depends on how long the foreign market takes to recover but the clock is ticking
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Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive if the become pro-Scottish. If they don’t, they won’t.
That is the inevitable consequence of being national institutions funded by the taxpayer. Either you work in the broad interests of the nation or else you try your luck in the free market.
Those 3 are the only world class universities Scotland has, lose those, lose world class higher education in Scotland
Says Rupert Murdoch.
The rest of the planet does not see the world through those London-tinted spectacles that so distort your vision.
Only 2 Scottish universities in the global top 100, Edinburgh and Glasgow.
In fairness that is as many in the top 50 as the entire EU. It's almost as if there was a link between adequately funding Universities and their performance, isn't it?
I may be wrong about this , but do get the impression that league tables re-standing of Universities are largely based on the breadth and depth of the research facilities provided for postgraduate work. Do they really convey much at all in respect of first degrees - BA and Bsc courses?
I think it does but you can argue about the weighting. Suppose you are studying physics and you have the choice of learning in a cutting edge laboratory with people testing the boundaries of knowledge in that subject and willing to let you play even a small part or learning the same stuff that has been churned out in a school like manner for you to learn and repeat on demand: which is going to make you a better physicist?
I think that the answer is obvious in that example but I would accept that there are many other potential examples which might not be so clear cut. What I think is clear is the University is or should be the equivalent of the mediaeval monastery, a combination of a place which does practical things like teach people how to read and also a place of scholarship and learning.
The fact that we have 4 Universities ranked in the top 10 in the world is undoubtedly one of our greatest strengths and we need to give urgent though as to how we avoid losing it.
I would agree with that , but not really so sure that a student attending Medical School at - say - Leeds or London Universities is likely to emerge having less to offer the world than someone from Oxbridge. That is probably even more true of the Humanities and Social Sciences - English,History, Politics, Philosophy , Law etc.
Medical school is arguably a poor example as the students have to move around between hospitals, so the training is arguably more homogenised. But in any case I'm not sure how much medical undergrads get to see in the way of research, these days, compared to say zoologists or biochemists who often end up doing actual research projects and special essay topics. The special essay I did ended up determining my entire career as a researcher (in part). And there seems to be even more emphasis on actual research projects as well as science communication, literacy, etc., these days in the fields in which I am familiar.
The other thing I am uneasy about is the merger of the polytechnics and universities. The polys did excellent work in their realm and it seemed a shame to lose them into the university mould. Edit: I'm not sure how such league tablkes take that loss into account.
Research work though generally relates to postgraduate work - MA-Msc - Phd etc. I was mainly questioning the relevance of university rankings to undergraduate courses.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
It's not great. One recoils.
"not great"?
To draw someone ethnically Hindu as a cow is "not great"? If it had been a picture of a black Labour minister drawn as a monkey, or a Muslim Labour minister drawn as a pig would you call it "not great"?
I appreciate you said "recoils" and good for that, but its beyond the pale. The Guardian hasn't moved on from its support of the Confederacy it seems if it thinks publishing a cartoon like that is acceptable. If the Daily Mail had shown a cartoon of Diane Abbott as a monkey I think you'd get an immense response to denounce that.
I often say "not great" to indicate severe disapproval.
Your "Abbott as a monkey" comparison is crass and clumsy.
Don't be crass and clumsy, Philip.
Why is it crass and clumsy? It is literally the same thing, a racist image that would be utterly disgusting to be either drawn or published. What was worse than crass and clumsy was for the Guardian to publish what it did which was every bit as bad as if another paper had published Abbott as a monkey.
No, c'mon. You were taking me to task wrongly because you misread my tone.
Let's not talk about Diane and monkeys. Absolutely no need to. The Patel cartoon is gross.
BTW, I am 100% in agreement with you about Raab's GoT and "subjugation" nonsense
So what do you think - ignorance or dog whistling?
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
I fear you're right. So so depressing.
Black Lives Matter is a far left organisation whose views and aims have never been testesd at the ballot box. It doesn;t have a single councillor, let alone an MP.
Quite why anybody of any color should respect that record is beyond me. Let alone 'take a knee'.
The conservatives polled 13 plus million votes. Donald Trump over sixty million. There are no knees for them.
There should, in our democracy, be no short cuts to power, influence and respect. There certainly weren't for UKIP and the Brexit party. There should not be for BLM either.
We do get this - that you are not a massive supporter of BLM or indeed of BLMing.
Tory vote share still at 40-year record levels, and we'd still win comfortably in a general election tomorrow? That puts the laughable Labour triumphalism into perspective, doesn't it?
It's almost as if most people prefer the dignified approach of Raab to that of Starmer the knee-bender...
I can't get over the idiocy of Raab. I've never been a fan of his but to me this is worse than his comments about the importance of Dover.
Whatever you think about BLM, this news story has been one of the biggest foreign stories for years and domestically has been one of the biggest news stories for two to three weeks now.
Whatever you think of the symbolism of kneeling, for Raab as Foreign Secretary and First Secretary of State to have not even bothered to learn what the symbolism of one of the biggest news stories in this country even means - and to be proud and willing to announce such ignorance on the news . . . its gobsmacking.
The man is incompetent and should be gone. Disagree with the symbolism all you like, but to not even bother to learn about it is remarkable.
I agree. A remarkably tin ear. Bewildered by those praising him this morning.
Not surprising who is praising him really, it's pretty much the Trumpton brigade who sadly now constitute this government's staunchest fans.
Like Trump all they want to do is sow division and discord because they believe it serves their political agenda and distracts from the government's own incompetence.
Er, Scott, I hope you're sitting down, but you do know that by your own logic you're praising Boris for subjugating Raab, don't you?
Yes, you have praised Boris - I knew we'd get you on board one day!
Regardless of how you try to spin, your hero has lasted about 4 hours before having to effectively take the knee and declare his respect for BLM. "Full respect" for the organisation that it is claimed is trying to bring down capitalism.
This was so bloody obvious from the start. We all said it, we all knew it.
Yet again, the country would have been better off governed by me, doing half an hour a day, during my first gin and T, than by this shower of imbeciles
Scarily, that might even be true. Though probably not.
It is precisely true. I'd have locked us down in late Feb, quarantined all arrivals, stopped flights from all the hotspots, stockpiled masks/face coverings and made them mandatory from the off.
We'd have a death toll like Germany's and we would now be eating in restaurants again.
I hate to say it but you are one of those who wished this government of "all the Brexiteer talents" upon the country. For some of us the outcome we are seeing was entirely predictable and I fear the worst is yet to come.
Comments
This centralised thread has been withdrawn.
"Everyone thinks we are doing a great job chaps. So stick to the plan."
It's becoming so so boring all of this culture war baloney. People creating enormous imaginary worlds that exist almost exclusively on the internet.
Let's get back to the knitting.
Let's not talk about Diane and monkeys. Absolutely no need to. The Patel cartoon is gross.
BTW, I am 100% in agreement with you about Raab's GoT and "subjugation" nonsense
So what do you think - ignorance or dog whistling?
Like Trump all they want to do is sow division and discord because they believe it serves their political agenda and distracts from the government's own incompetence.
Regardless of how you try to spin, your hero has lasted about 4 hours before having to effectively take the knee and declare his respect for BLM. "Full respect" for the organisation that it is claimed is trying to bring down capitalism.
LOL, where will your humiliation end?
Must be so humiliating to the Brexiteers that Germany constantly run rings around us.
It's not as if everyone wasn't telling them that weeks ago. Still, lets be thankful for small mercies, onwards and upwards to the next cock-up!