Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
Er, it was an incredibly popular programme that ran for almost a decade. Tens of millions of people will understand the reference, and that's good enough.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
It's not great. One recoils.
"not great"?
To draw someone ethnically Hindu as a cow is "not great"? If it had been a picture of a black Labour minister drawn as a monkey, or a Muslim Labour minister drawn as a pig would you call it "not great"?
I appreciate you said "recoils" and good for that, but its beyond the pale. The Guardian hasn't moved on from its support of the Confederacy it seems if it thinks publishing a cartoon like that is acceptable. If the Daily Mail had shown a cartoon of Diane Abbott as a monkey I think you'd get an immense response to denounce that.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
If the same cartoon was a Muslim minister drawn as a pig it would be rightly condemned. That the guardian has chosen to turn a blind eye to their own racism is not surprising to anyone that has been paying attention to their equivocation on anti-Semitism by Labour.
As I said, the left hates us because we're successful and now very noticeably at the top of a right wing government.
A fairly good rule for any "joke"/"cartoon"/"story" is to rotate the subject of the story though a number of different groups and see what you have.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.
They actually have bigger problems, certainly in Scotland where the Universities are facing a complete shit storm.
The Scottish government gives £1820 per student with a set number of places. This of course is absolutely unsustainable for anything other than the most basic of institutions so Universities have sought English students (£9250 a pop) and foreign non EU students (up to £24K) to cross subsidise. The Russell group members in particular have been very successful at this allowing the Universities to thrive with an ever smaller part of their cohort being made up of Scottish students.
Boris has now capped the number of English grants that will be paid to Scottish Universities and the foreigners are not coming because of Covid. The Scottish Government is not able to increase the number of places it funds because it has no money. I am not sure whether the likes of Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive. It really depends on how long the foreign market takes to recover but the clock is ticking
.
It is a shitstorm. In my opinion these universities should give up chasing "global excellence" and instead go for efficiency - educating the masses, to an acceptable standard, as cheaply as possible. This was the "education factory" policy followed by Ireland when it was trying catch the first wave of globalisation in the 1980's. It was also the ethos of Edinburgh and Glasgow universities when they were (re)founded in the Reformation, in contrast to the expensive college based systems in St Andrews, Oxford and Cambridge. It meant that David Livingston, son of a poor millworker, could turn up in Glasgow with a bag of oatmeal, find a place to doss down and qualify to be a doctor almost for free.
I have absolutely no problem with education being a successful export business for this country. The spin off benefits for UK plc are immense. Indeed I would go so far as to say that our elite Universities are one of our most important industries.
I don't either. The point I'm trying to make in response to your point, is that university education in Scotland needs to be made more affordable, whether it is the government or individuals that pick up the tab. If that means all universities becoming the "the most basic of institutions" you refer to, so be it. We have tough choices to make.
Tory vote share still at 40-year record levels, and we'd still win comfortably in a general election tomorrow? That puts the laughable Labour triumphalism into perspective, doesn't it?
It's almost as if most people prefer the dignified approach of Raab to that of Starmer the knee-bender...
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
GoT is just Dungeons and Dragons with tits. That's the impression I have anyway as I've never seen it. But I've noted that knowing nothing about a subject is no barrier to holding an opinion on it on PB. I do have a funny story related to it though. One of the stars lives locally and came to see a play I was appearing in, but didn't get let in because we'd sold out.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
Well, other than governing. There's spheres of moral and political responsibility, and some stuff is outside some spheres. Have you stood on your head this morning to protest against injustice to the Rohingya, or hopped backwards for ten minutes in solidarity with the Palestinians? Why not?
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
Er, it was an incredibly popular programme that ran for almost a decade. Tens of millions of people will understand the reference, and that's good enough.
Holy crap the level of post today is like nursery school, halfwits doing stupid American kneeling and other loonies quoting fantasy tv programmes as relevant to politics. Get Braveheart out and learn how to do it properly.
Tory vote share still at 40-year record levels, and we'd still win comfortably in a general election tomorrow? That puts the laughable Labour triumphalism into perspective, doesn't it?
It's almost as if most people prefer the dignified approach of Raab to that of Starmer the knee-bender...
Almost as if we have an Equalities Minister, a lady of African origin, trying to help calm things down rather than inflame them further: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5yzYqs94BQ
Today I learnt that Toby Young was a supporter of Living Marxism and their libel of ITN.
I don't know why I am so surprised.
Really? The Bosnian campaign was very much a Clinton/Blair project. Presumably Tobes hated it for that reason and was desperate for it to be discredited.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
GoT is just Dungeons and Dragons with tits. That's the impression I have anyway as I've never seen it. But I've noted that knowing nothing about a subject is no barrier to holding an opinion on it on PB. I do have a funny story related to it though. One of the stars lives locally and came to see a play I was appearing in, but didn't get let in because we'd sold out.
Low bar for "funny."
It's a superb series, seriously marred by the Mother of Dragons subplot (where most of the tits are) and the complete mess of the final season.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
Well, other than governing. There's spheres of moral and political responsibility, and some stuff is outside some spheres. Have you stood on your head this morning to protest against injustice to the Rohingya, or hopped backwards for ten minutes in solidarity with the Palestinians? Why not?
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
It's not great. One recoils.
"not great"?
To draw someone ethnically Hindu as a cow is "not great"? If it had been a picture of a black Labour minister drawn as a monkey, or a Muslim Labour minister drawn as a pig would you call it "not great"?
I appreciate you said "recoils" and good for that, but its beyond the pale. The Guardian hasn't moved on from its support of the Confederacy it seems if it thinks publishing a cartoon like that is acceptable. If the Daily Mail had shown a cartoon of Diane Abbott as a monkey I think you'd get an immense response to denounce that.
Plenty of knickers in a fankle today , Tories swooning all over at a cartoon, some of you lot need to get a life or even better do a real days work, get out and meet some humans , learn a bit about real life.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
Well, other than governing. There's spheres of moral and political responsibility, and some stuff is outside some spheres. Have you stood on your head this morning to protest against injustice to the Rohingya, or hopped backwards for ten minutes in solidarity with the Palestinians? Why not?
Why would I?
For the same reasons Raab should have taken the knee.
Mr. xP, kneeling can also occur at marriage proposals and when being knighted. I didn't say he was swearing fealty. I said that when he was kneeling, he was kneeling.
Given that the UK chapter of BLM favours dismantling capitalism, patriarchy, and British institutions, it would be a very strange Conservative minister who expressed solidarity with them.
Raab is right not to do it if he doesn't want to. It would look phony and forced. The sort of thing which detracts from the cause rather than helps it.
But he has spoilt things somewhat by talking utter bollox about "kneeling" and "Game of Thrones". Why not say he is "not up for token gestures" rather than just not up for THIS token gesture?
As it is, it begs the obvious question -
"Ok, Dom, understood, kneeling is a no no, except to the Queen, so how about doing something else to demonstrate your anti-racist credentials? Something that does not make you think of Her Majesty or Game of Thrones. Like - yes this would surely work - how about you put a black glove on, lower your eyes to the floor, and raise a fist? Cool with that?"
See what I mean? - He is being a bit of a plonker, I'm afraid.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
GoT is just Dungeons and Dragons with tits. That's the impression I have anyway as I've never seen it. But I've noted that knowing nothing about a subject is no barrier to holding an opinion on it on PB. I do have a funny story related to it though. One of the stars lives locally and came to see a play I was appearing in, but didn't get let in because we'd sold out.
Low bar for "funny."
It's a superb series, seriously marred by the Mother of Dragons subplot (where most of the tits are) and the complete mess of the final season.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
If the same cartoon was a Muslim minister drawn as a pig it would be rightly condemned. That the guardian has chosen to turn a blind eye to their own racism is not surprising to anyone that has been paying attention to their equivocation on anti-Semitism by Labour.
As I said, the left hates us because we're successful and now very noticeably at the top of a right wing government.
A fairly good rule for any "joke"/"cartoon"/"story" is to rotate the subject of the story though a number of different groups and see what you have.
I've not been keeping up, but what is the overt rationale? Is it [edit] an appalling coincidence/faux pas? Mr Johnson is also drawn in a bovine way - it's not a reference to his Aristophanes quip about an ox tonguie is it?
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
Well, other than governing. There's spheres of moral and political responsibility, and some stuff is outside some spheres. Have you stood on your head this morning to protest against injustice to the Rohingya, or hopped backwards for ten minutes in solidarity with the Palestinians? Why not?
Why would I?
For the same reasons Raab should have taken the knee.
Who said he should have knelt? It's a choice. If he does not want to show solidarity with BLM that is up to him.
Today I learnt that Toby Young was a supporter of Living Marxism and their libel of ITN.
I don't know why I am so surprised.
Really? The Bosnian campaign was very much a Clinton/Blair project. Presumably Tobes hated it for that reason and was desperate for it to be discredited.
A lot of people across the political spectrum supported Living Marxism in the libel case in a very unedifying way. I always found it deeply weird at the time but seeing all the names now 20 years on is even weirder.
I was never very good at arithmetic, but is it better, worse or about the same as a 19 point lead?
Tory hubris and arrogance is always going to be very helpful. If they wish to portray a 19 point lead to turning into an eight point one in the space of a month, who are we to stop them?
I have stated, more than once on here, that the QEC carriers are a vanity purchase ....
I thought they were a bribe? A pork-barrel for the local yards, vote for me!
That they were mostly produced in Gordon Brown's constituency is purely co-incidental...
Of course! Entirely a coincidence! To suggest otherwise is unthinkable....
In fairness, much/mostr of the money went to other constituencies IIRC. They were stuck together, so to speak, from bits produced elsewhere in the UK - I forget where - and not counting kit from non-shipyard sites and of courtse the v. expensive planes from the US.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
Er, it was an incredibly popular programme that ran for almost a decade. Tens of millions of people will understand the reference, and that's good enough.
About three million or so watched GoT, I suspect the rest of us mainly knew it as the one that spent so much on dragons that they couldn't always afford costumes, especially for the actresses. Though I bet the Westminster Bubble lapped it up. Not sure it's a genius bit of communication. But lets go back to what the Raabster said;
"On this taking the knee thing, I don't know maybe it's got a broader history, it seems to be taken from the Game of Thrones"
He doesn't know. He says he doesn't know. He's the Foreign Secretary, it's his job to know what's going on around the world, especially if it's a big story in a big country.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
Well, other than governing. There's spheres of moral and political responsibility, and some stuff is outside some spheres. Have you stood on your head this morning to protest against injustice to the Rohingya, or hopped backwards for ten minutes in solidarity with the Palestinians? Why not?
Why would I?
For the same reasons Raab should have taken the knee.
Who said he should have knelt? It's a choice. If he does not want to show solidarity with BLM that is up to him.
Does it manage to have a go at the Govt at the same time>? I would be surprised if it was bile free...
The article appears to be complaining simultaneously that there’s both too much tourism and not enough of it.
Tourism is fecked for a year at least or ought to be....but people want holidays and will ignore the risks and Govts will let it happen because of financial imperatives.
Pretty much no-one I've spoken to has any interest in foreign holidays this year, although a few need to travel over the summer for work and family reasons. .
Wow that's not my experience at all. Every young person I've spoken to can't wait to get away. I'm not young but I'm in the same boat, or aircraft. In fact I've already booked a fortnight in SE Asia for late Fall.
'Fall'? I thought you were English? Or are you very very old English?
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
If the same cartoon was a Muslim minister drawn as a pig it would be rightly condemned. That the guardian has chosen to turn a blind eye to their own racism is not surprising to anyone that has been paying attention to their equivocation on anti-Semitism by Labour.
As I said, the left hates us because we're successful and now very noticeably at the top of a right wing government.
A fairly good rule for any "joke"/"cartoon"/"story" is to rotate the subject of the story though a number of different groups and see what you have.
I've not been keeping up, but what is the overt rationale? Is it [edit] an appalling coincidence/faux pas? Mr Johnson is also drawn in a bovine way - it's not a reference to his Aristophanes quip about an ox tonguie is it?
That cartoon was long before the Aristophanes quote
There are people out there who bang on about how Hindus are cow/devil worshippers. They are universally not nice people.
The cartoon has a strong resemblance to ones published in their hate rags.
I have stated, more than once on here, that the QEC carriers are a vanity purchase ....
I thought they were a bribe? A pork-barrel for the local yards, vote for me!
That they were mostly produced in Gordon Brown's constituency is purely co-incidental...
Of course! Entirely a coincidence! To suggest otherwise is unthinkable....
In fairness, much/mostr of the money went to other constituencies IIRC. They were stuck together, so to speak, from bits produced elsewhere in the UK - I forget where - and not counting kit from non-shipyard sites and of courtse the v. expensive planes from the US.
Seems it was spread around 7 yards in the UK with final stitching together in Rosyth. My last forays to Govan and Rosyth suggest that not much pork from the barrel stuck around.
What I would be slightly concerned about if I was Biden in that only two of those states (Florida and Michigan), does he get to 50% of the vote and then only marginally. Several states (Ohio, Wisconsin, Arizona) have 10%+ of respondents saying either don't know or third party votes. That would raise fears about shy Trump voters.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
If the same cartoon was a Muslim minister drawn as a pig it would be rightly condemned. That the guardian has chosen to turn a blind eye to their own racism is not surprising to anyone that has been paying attention to their equivocation on anti-Semitism by Labour.
As I said, the left hates us because we're successful and now very noticeably at the top of a right wing government.
A fairly good rule for any "joke"/"cartoon"/"story" is to rotate the subject of the story though a number of different groups and see what you have.
I've not been keeping up, but what is the overt rationale? Is it [edit] an appalling coincidence/faux pas? Mr Johnson is also drawn in a bovine way - it's not a reference to his Aristophanes quip about an ox tonguie is it?
That cartoon was long before the Aristophanes quote
There are people out there who bang on about how Hindus are cow/devil worshippers. They are universally not nice people.
The cartoon has a strong resemblance to ones published in their hate rags.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
Well, other than governing. There's spheres of moral and political responsibility, and some stuff is outside some spheres. Have you stood on your head this morning to protest against injustice to the Rohingya, or hopped backwards for ten minutes in solidarity with the Palestinians? Why not?
Why would I?
For the same reasons Raab should have taken the knee.
Who said he should have knelt? It's a choice. If he does not want to show solidarity with BLM that is up to him.
You say that implicitly in your final sentence.
My interest is not in whether Raab has knelt or not for BLM, it's in his use of words like subjugation and subordination to describe doing so.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
If the same cartoon was a Muslim minister drawn as a pig it would be rightly condemned. That the guardian has chosen to turn a blind eye to their own racism is not surprising to anyone that has been paying attention to their equivocation on anti-Semitism by Labour.
As I said, the left hates us because we're successful and now very noticeably at the top of a right wing government.
A fairly good rule for any "joke"/"cartoon"/"story" is to rotate the subject of the story though a number of different groups and see what you have.
A fairly good rule for any Steve Bell cartoon is not to read it. He's had stuff pulled by the Guardian for being racist on more than one occasion and it's long past the time he should have been canned.
His work is more about making the people he disagrees with look grotesque (and that's most people, including the majority of the Labour party), rather than making any clever satirical points.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
Well, other than governing. There's spheres of moral and political responsibility, and some stuff is outside some spheres. Have you stood on your head this morning to protest against injustice to the Rohingya, or hopped backwards for ten minutes in solidarity with the Palestinians? Why not?
Why would I?
For the same reasons Raab should have taken the knee.
Who said he should have knelt? It's a choice. If he does not want to show solidarity with BLM that is up to him.
You say that implicitly in your final sentence.
My interest is not in whether Raab has knelt or not for BLM, it's in his use of words like subjugation and subordination to describe doing so.
Is it not part of the Raab C. Brexit shtick, not to kneel to foreigners, vide the ECJ, EU, etc. etc.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
Well, other than governing. There's spheres of moral and political responsibility, and some stuff is outside some spheres. Have you stood on your head this morning to protest against injustice to the Rohingya, or hopped backwards for ten minutes in solidarity with the Palestinians? Why not?
Why would I?
For the same reasons Raab should have taken the knee.
Who said he should have knelt? It's a choice. If he does not want to show solidarity with BLM that is up to him.
You say that implicitly in your final sentence.
My interest is not in whether Raab has knelt or not for BLM, it's in his use of words like subjugation and subordination to describe doing so.
Exactly my point too. Odd direction to go in. Almost as if he's dog whistling. Not saying he is - he probably isn't - but it's open to that interpretation.
I see the left has their own version of poppy and clapping fascists. How amazing they have transformed into the very thing they have raged against for so many years.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
What I would be slightly concerned about if I was Biden in that only two of those states (Florida and Michigan), does he get to 50% of the vote and then only marginally. Several states (Ohio, Wisconsin, Arizona) have 10%+ of respondents saying either don't know or third party votes. That would raise fears about shy Trump voters.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
If the same cartoon was a Muslim minister drawn as a pig it would be rightly condemned. That the guardian has chosen to turn a blind eye to their own racism is not surprising to anyone that has been paying attention to their equivocation on anti-Semitism by Labour.
As I said, the left hates us because we're successful and now very noticeably at the top of a right wing government.
A fairly good rule for any "joke"/"cartoon"/"story" is to rotate the subject of the story though a number of different groups and see what you have.
I've not been keeping up, but what is the overt rationale? Is it [edit] an appalling coincidence/faux pas? Mr Johnson is also drawn in a bovine way - it's not a reference to his Aristophanes quip about an ox tonguie is it?
That cartoon was long before the Aristophanes quote
There are people out there who bang on about how Hindus are cow/devil worshippers. They are universally not nice people.
The cartoon has a strong resemblance to ones published in their hate rags.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
If the same cartoon was a Muslim minister drawn as a pig it would be rightly condemned. That the guardian has chosen to turn a blind eye to their own racism is not surprising to anyone that has been paying attention to their equivocation on anti-Semitism by Labour.
As I said, the left hates us because we're successful and now very noticeably at the top of a right wing government.
A fairly good rule for any "joke"/"cartoon"/"story" is to rotate the subject of the story though a number of different groups and see what you have.
I've not been keeping up, but what is the overt rationale? Is it [edit] an appalling coincidence/faux pas? Mr Johnson is also drawn in a bovine way - it's not a reference to his Aristophanes quip about an ox tonguie is it?
That cartoon was long before the Aristophanes quote
There are people out there who bang on about how Hindus are cow/devil worshippers. They are universally not nice people.
The cartoon has a strong resemblance to ones published in their hate rags.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
Well, other than governing. There's spheres of moral and political responsibility, and some stuff is outside some spheres. Have you stood on your head this morning to protest against injustice to the Rohingya, or hopped backwards for ten minutes in solidarity with the Palestinians? Why not?
Why would I?
For the same reasons Raab should have taken the knee.
Who said he should have knelt? It's a choice. If he does not want to show solidarity with BLM that is up to him.
You say that implicitly in your final sentence.
My interest is not in whether Raab has knelt or not for BLM, it's in his use of words like subjugation and subordination to describe doing so.
He's either incredibly ignorant, or it's a pretty sinister link to make. Given that he's already tweeting clarification about respect, I would guess the former, but it's hugely disappointing that a cabinet minister doesn't realise just how offensive it is to make that connection.
£100bn more of Quantitative Easing today. On top of the £200 billion earlier this year.
That £100bn is essentially the cost of the UK furlough scheme in total.
As I said earlier this year, the UK is never going to repay what its spending on COVID, it will all either be written off as QE or we'll just pay interest on it.
It wouldn't surprise me if by the end of the year net of Quantitative Easing we end up not much more in debt than we started the year with, despite furlough and everything else.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
GoT is just Dungeons and Dragons with tits. That's the impression I have anyway as I've never seen it.
It's more like Druon's "Les Rois maudits" with magical surrealism. I've read the first three (I think) books but I've never seen the TV program. I assume it's dreadful.
Today I learnt that Toby Young was a supporter of Living Marxism and their libel of ITN.
I don't know why I am so surprised.
Really? The Bosnian campaign was very much a Clinton/Blair project. Presumably Tobes hated it for that reason and was desperate for it to be discredited.
A lot of people across the political spectrum supported Living Marxism in the libel case in a very unedifying way. I always found it deeply weird at the time but seeing all the names now 20 years on is even weirder.
Living Marxism's attempts to re-write the history of the camps was motivated by the fact that in their heart of hearts, these people applauded those camps and sympathised with their cause and wished to see it triumph. That was the central and - in the final hour, the only - issue. Shame, then, on those fools, supporters of the pogrom, cynics and dilettantes who supported them, gave them credence and endorsed their vile enterprise.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
Well, other than governing. There's spheres of moral and political responsibility, and some stuff is outside some spheres. Have you stood on your head this morning to protest against injustice to the Rohingya, or hopped backwards for ten minutes in solidarity with the Palestinians? Why not?
Why would I?
For the same reasons Raab should have taken the knee.
Who said he should have knelt? It's a choice. If he does not want to show solidarity with BLM that is up to him.
You say that implicitly in your final sentence.
My interest is not in whether Raab has knelt or not for BLM, it's in his use of words like subjugation and subordination to describe doing so.
He's either incredibly ignorant, or it's a pretty sinister link to make. Given that he's already tweeting clarification about respect, I would guess the former, but it's hugely disappointing that a cabinet minister doesn't realise just how offensive it is to make that connection.
I am still trying to think what is distinctively GoT ish about kneeling, for sure. But the whole Kaepernick thing is very incoherent anyway. I think it was meant to be an alternative way of showing respect to the US national anthem.
Progress. And OK the knee is out because of "subjugation" overtones. Let's accept this as being in the eye of the beholder and therefore valid. So what I'd suggest is he at least considers a little BLM badge - as per the NHS one that Matt Hancock wears. Subtle but significant, and with nothing at all 'loaded' about it.
I see the left has their own version of poppy and clapping fascists. How amazing they have transformed into the very thing they have raged against for so many years.
People should make their own choice, just as they do with poppies.
But that the Foreign Secretary could go on TV and show such ignorance that he doesn't know the origins of the symbolism is gobsmacking. It ranks up there with the young ignorant idiot being interviewed by Channel 4 that went viral earlier this week when she said about Churchill that she has never met him.
The difference is that Raab is not just an MP but Foreign Secretary.
If a Labour MP said that they didn't want to wear a poppy then I would understand that is their choice. If an MP said they didn't know the origins of the poppy and it was maybe to do with a TV show that would be another matter.
His ignorance is remarkable. Raab is an idiot and he should go.
On topic, at what point can Trump decide he doesn't want to stand?
If he looks like losing "bigly" would he just walk away from the contest?
That would be such (!) a cheat. Like feigning injury when you're 0/5 love 30 in the 5th. Really hope he doesn't do that. Don't think he will. He'll want to do some rallies and stuff, some negative on Biden, a TV debate, keep a hold of the spotlight to the end, see how it all shakes out.
I`ve said this repeatedly for months. Lay Trump for Next President rather than back Biden or Dems to win. The odds are only marginally inferior and you win if Trump doesn`t stand regardless of what happens in the GE.
I`ve thought for months that he may petulantly jack it when he becomes convinced he can`t win. He won`t care about leaving the Reps in a bind.
You have indeed made this point before. I personally don't see it - I just think he'll want that campaign high again, the MAGA rallies, the adoration from the fanbase - but I agree with lay Trump being better than back Biden. It covers both your scenario AND the one where Biden has a medical issue and is replaced.
I'm applying a Nassim Taleb-style "barbell" strategy: lay Trump and at the same time buy all the main Republican alternatives to Trump at very low prices.
In any case Trump's price is likely to fall in the next 4 weeks what with Bolton (incl. China), Tulsa, and Mary.
Pence shouldn't be as far ahead of the other non-Trump Republicans in the betting market as he is. He may be Trump's presumptive running-mate but how much does "presumptive" count for? Scenarios where he quits the race can be categorised as follows for where they leave Pence:
A) Pence as Trump's RM B ) Someone else as Trump's RM; C) Trump quits race or leaves office before formally choosing RM.
1B, 1C don't leave Pence strong even though he'd (probably) be President. The impeachment conviction subclass of 1 wouldn't be good for Pence whether A, B, or C: there was no President Agnew. The 25th amendment subclass might or might not be good for Pence. If he were to be seen as the instigator that'd be fine, but he might appear merely as the man who said "OK" when the military told him "Sign this", thereby keeping the coup constitutional.
Even with 2, if it's before the convention there will be a contest surely, rather than enough of the leadership agreeing Pence is the best unity candidate or unity doesn't matter.
The above six cells are by no means the whole picture, because, well, anything could happen. Trump could quit the race saying he will serve out his term and then leave office anyway, voluntarily or involuntarily, or goodness knows what.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
GoT is just Dungeons and Dragons with tits. That's the impression I have anyway as I've never seen it. But I've noted that knowing nothing about a subject is no barrier to holding an opinion on it on PB. I do have a funny story related to it though. One of the stars lives locally and came to see a play I was appearing in, but didn't get let in because we'd sold out.
Well I haven't seen it either so Raab has quite simply disenfranchised the both of us. I thought he was meant to be our Foreign Secretary.
I see the left has their own version of poppy and clapping fascists. How amazing they have transformed into the very thing they have raged against for so many years.
People should make their own choice, just as they do with poppies.
But that the Foreign Secretary could go on TV and show such ignorance that he doesn't know the origins of the symbolism is gobsmacking. It ranks up there with the young ignorant idiot being interviewed by Channel 4 that went viral earlier this week when she said about Churchill that she has never met him.
The difference is that Raab is not just an MP but Foreign Secretary.
If a Labour MP said that they didn't want to wear a poppy then I would understand that is their choice. If an MP said they didn't know the origins of the poppy and it was maybe to do with a TV show that would be another matter.
His ignorance is remarkable. Raab is an idiot and he should go.
Bending the knee has for centuries been an act of subservience. Some aspect of this is definitely borne from some people wanting others to be subservient, though definitely not all. I suspect it's the same set of people who want to be "on the right side of history".
I see the left has their own version of poppy and clapping fascists. How amazing they have transformed into the very thing they have raged against for so many years.
People should make their own choice, just as they do with poppies.
But that the Foreign Secretary could go on TV and show such ignorance that he doesn't know the origins of the symbolism is gobsmacking. It ranks up there with the young ignorant idiot being interviewed by Channel 4 that went viral earlier this week when she said about Churchill that she has never met him.
The difference is that Raab is not just an MP but Foreign Secretary.
If a Labour MP said that they didn't want to wear a poppy then I would understand that is their choice. If an MP said they didn't know the origins of the poppy and it was maybe to do with a TV show that would be another matter.
His ignorance is remarkable. Raab is an idiot and he should go.
One could argue that his job is to be a punctilious politician who gets things done, not be a general-knowledge expert in a pub quiz team. (This was the line when he ran into trouble over the Dover-Calais crossing.)
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
Well, other than governing. There's spheres of moral and political responsibility, and some stuff is outside some spheres. Have you stood on your head this morning to protest against injustice to the Rohingya, or hopped backwards for ten minutes in solidarity with the Palestinians? Why not?
The former - standing on your head - would indicate both solidarity with the Rohingya and a long life ahead of you. Much to like there.
I see the left has their own version of poppy and clapping fascists. How amazing they have transformed into the very thing they have raged against for so many years.
People should make their own choice, just as they do with poppies.
But that the Foreign Secretary could go on TV and show such ignorance that he doesn't know the origins of the symbolism is gobsmacking. It ranks up there with the young ignorant idiot being interviewed by Channel 4 that went viral earlier this week when she said about Churchill that she has never met him.
The difference is that Raab is not just an MP but Foreign Secretary.
If a Labour MP said that they didn't want to wear a poppy then I would understand that is their choice. If an MP said they didn't know the origins of the poppy and it was maybe to do with a TV show that would be another matter.
His ignorance is remarkable. Raab is an idiot and he should go.
Bending the knee has for centuries been an act of subservience. Some aspect of this is definitely borne from some people wanting others to be subservient, though definitely not all. I suspect it's the same set of people who want to be "on the right side of history".
There's a difference between someone doing it as an act of protest - like Kaepernick - and someone just doing it as a show of support for a political movement.
Personally, I thought the footballers looked a bit silly last night.
I can't get over the idiocy of Raab. I've never been a fan of his but to me this is worse than his comments about the importance of Dover.
Whatever you think about BLM, this news story has been one of the biggest foreign stories for years and domestically has been one of the biggest news stories for two to three weeks now.
Whatever you think of the symbolism of kneeling, for Raab as Foreign Secretary and First Secretary of State to have not even bothered to learn what the symbolism of one of the biggest news stories in this country even means - and to be proud and willing to announce such ignorance on the news . . . its gobsmacking.
The man is incompetent and should be gone. Disagree with the symbolism all you like, but to not even bother to learn about it is remarkable.
When Brown and Darling did this it was BAD. I take it, now Johnson and Sunak are using the QA device it is good.
I remember 40 odd years ago my economics A level tutor told me increases in M3 was inflationary and generally BAD. Presumably increases in M3 are now good.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
It's not great. One recoils.
"not great"?
To draw someone ethnically Hindu as a cow is "not great"? If it had been a picture of a black Labour minister drawn as a monkey, or a Muslim Labour minister drawn as a pig would you call it "not great"?
I appreciate you said "recoils" and good for that, but its beyond the pale. The Guardian hasn't moved on from its support of the Confederacy it seems if it thinks publishing a cartoon like that is acceptable. If the Daily Mail had shown a cartoon of Diane Abbott as a monkey I think you'd get an immense response to denounce that.
I often say "not great" to indicate severe disapproval.
Your "Abbott as a monkey" comparison is crass and clumsy.
Bending the knee has for centuries been an act of subservience.
I ask again, who was Kapernick being "subservient" to?
The US constitution. The point was he wouldn't stand, but just sitting on his arse looked disrespectful, so he had to think of another way to mark the national anthem.
I can't get over the idiocy of Raab. I've never been a fan of his but to me this is worse than his comments about the importance of Dover.
Whatever you think about BLM, this news story has been one of the biggest foreign stories for years and domestically has been one of the biggest news stories for two to three weeks now.
Whatever you think of the symbolism of kneeling, for Raab as Foreign Secretary and First Secretary of State to have not even bothered to learn what the symbolism of one of the biggest news stories in this country even means - and to be proud and willing to announce such ignorance on the news . . . its gobsmacking.
The man is incompetent and should be gone. Disagree with the symbolism all you like, but to not even bother to learn about it is remarkable.
I have always regarded him as nothing more than a waste of space and have said so several times here on PB only to be informed that Raab is very intelligent. His intelligence fails to show IMO. Whatever his area of expertise is, it does not seem to be politics.
I am happy for him to be in govt, though because I strongly disagree with almost every policy this govt promulgates.
One could argue that his job is to be a punctilious politician who gets things done, not be a general-knowledge expert in a pub quiz team. (This was the line when he ran into trouble over the Dover-Calais crossing.)
Knowing about the Dover-Calais crossing was literally his job as a punctilious politician when he made that remark.
Now understanding what's happening in America is literally his job as a punctilious politician.
Neither of them are uniquely general knowledge questions, although you would expect any contestant on Mastermind to be able to answer both of them.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
I see the left has their own version of poppy and clapping fascists. How amazing they have transformed into the very thing they have raged against for so many years.
People should make their own choice, just as they do with poppies.
But that the Foreign Secretary could go on TV and show such ignorance that he doesn't know the origins of the symbolism is gobsmacking. It ranks up there with the young ignorant idiot being interviewed by Channel 4 that went viral earlier this week when she said about Churchill that she has never met him.
The difference is that Raab is not just an MP but Foreign Secretary.
If a Labour MP said that they didn't want to wear a poppy then I would understand that is their choice. If an MP said they didn't know the origins of the poppy and it was maybe to do with a TV show that would be another matter.
His ignorance is remarkable. Raab is an idiot and he should go.
Bending the knee has for centuries been an act of subservience. Some aspect of this is definitely borne from some people wanting others to be subservient, though definitely not all. I suspect it's the same set of people who want to be "on the right side of history".
The symbolism isn't bending the knee though and kneeling has other symbolism than that and has for centuries too. Kneeling can symbolise respect, reverence many things.
I'm an atheist but I have knelt before in both Churches and Temples long before any of this came about. In those instances it wasn't about subservience or subjugation it was about showing respect.
I have just been taking part in a video chat with patrons of a local theatre who are hoping to put on a Christmas panto that will be socially distanced and meet all the guidelines. Lots of criticism of Oliver Dowden and Cameron Mackintosh yesterday for being totally London focused and no thought towards regional theatre.
I see the left has their own version of poppy and clapping fascists. How amazing they have transformed into the very thing they have raged against for so many years.
People should make their own choice, just as they do with poppies.
But that the Foreign Secretary could go on TV and show such ignorance that he doesn't know the origins of the symbolism is gobsmacking. It ranks up there with the young ignorant idiot being interviewed by Channel 4 that went viral earlier this week when she said about Churchill that she has never met him.
The difference is that Raab is not just an MP but Foreign Secretary.
If a Labour MP said that they didn't want to wear a poppy then I would understand that is their choice. If an MP said they didn't know the origins of the poppy and it was maybe to do with a TV show that would be another matter.
His ignorance is remarkable. Raab is an idiot and he should go.
It seems your ignorance is equally remarkable. Kaepernick's kneeling was a means of non violent protest. That is why it struck such a chord. Kneeling by the police and authorities is a sign of submission, of repentance. It is crass, pointless and has annoyed a great many black commentators as it makes it seem as if the BLM protestors want subjugation of the whites rather than equality.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
Well, other than governing. There's spheres of moral and political responsibility, and some stuff is outside some spheres. Have you stood on your head this morning to protest against injustice to the Rohingya, or hopped backwards for ten minutes in solidarity with the Palestinians? Why not?
The former - standing on your head - would indicate both solidarity with the Rohingya and a long life ahead of you. Much to like there.
"In my youth," Father William replied to his son, "I feared it might injure the brain; But now that I'm perfectly sure I have none, Why, I do it again and again."
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
It's not great. One recoils.
"not great"?
To draw someone ethnically Hindu as a cow is "not great"? If it had been a picture of a black Labour minister drawn as a monkey, or a Muslim Labour minister drawn as a pig would you call it "not great"?
I appreciate you said "recoils" and good for that, but its beyond the pale. The Guardian hasn't moved on from its support of the Confederacy it seems if it thinks publishing a cartoon like that is acceptable. If the Daily Mail had shown a cartoon of Diane Abbott as a monkey I think you'd get an immense response to denounce that.
I often say "not great" to indicate severe disapproval.
Your "Abbott as a monkey" comparison is crass and clumsy.
Don't be crass and clumsy, Philip.
Why is it crass and clumsy? It is literally the same thing, a racist image that would be utterly disgusting to be either drawn or published. What was worse than crass and clumsy was for the Guardian to publish what it did which was every bit as bad as if another paper had published Abbott as a monkey.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
Er, it was an incredibly popular programme that ran for almost a decade. Tens of millions of people will understand the reference, and that's good enough.
About three million or so watched GoT, I suspect the rest of us mainly knew it as the one that spent so much on dragons that they couldn't always afford costumes, especially for the actresses. Though I bet the Westminster Bubble lapped it up. Not sure it's a genius bit of communication. But lets go back to what the Raabster said;
"On this taking the knee thing, I don't know maybe it's got a broader history, it seems to be taken from the Game of Thrones"
He doesn't know. He says he doesn't know. He's the Foreign Secretary, it's his job to know what's going on around the world, especially if it's a big story in a big country.
He's only recently familiar with the location of some of our ports. Give him a chance.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
Er, it was an incredibly popular programme that ran for almost a decade. Tens of millions of people will understand the reference, and that's good enough.
Yes. It is dog whistling of the first order.
I was trying not to conclude that - getting so bored with this "culture war" crap - but others of my ilk have steered me to the obvious. Oh dear. Ah well.
You shouldn't be supporting this sort of stuff, you really shouldn't, but I don't suppose you'll listen to me.
I see the left has their own version of poppy and clapping fascists. How amazing they have transformed into the very thing they have raged against for so many years.
People should make their own choice, just as they do with poppies.
But that the Foreign Secretary could go on TV and show such ignorance that he doesn't know the origins of the symbolism is gobsmacking. It ranks up there with the young ignorant idiot being interviewed by Channel 4 that went viral earlier this week when she said about Churchill that she has never met him.
The difference is that Raab is not just an MP but Foreign Secretary.
If a Labour MP said that they didn't want to wear a poppy then I would understand that is their choice. If an MP said they didn't know the origins of the poppy and it was maybe to do with a TV show that would be another matter.
His ignorance is remarkable. Raab is an idiot and he should go.
It seems your ignorance is equally remarkable. Kaepernick's kneeling was a means of non violent protest. That is why it struck such a chord. Kneeling by the police and authorities is a sign of submission, of repentance. It is crass, pointless and has annoyed a great many black commentators as it makes it seem as if the BLM protestors want subjugation of the whites rather than equality.
Actually you are wrong, I have followed this story since before he was kneeling and kneeling was not his original protest. The original protest was sitting on a bench during the anthem but that was condemned as disrespectful to the national anthem and to the veterans.
So after speaking with veterans groups he changed the protest from sitting on a bench during the anthem to kneeling, because that was more respectful than sitting.
Again kneeling is a traditional symbolism of respect not just subjugation.
When Brown and Darling did this it was BAD. I take it, now Johnson and Sunak are using the QA device it is good.
I remember 40 odd years ago my economics A level tutor told me increases in M3 was inflationary and generally BAD. Presumably increases in M3 are now good.
Brown caused a lot of it by not thinking ahead.... the 156 billion annual deficit is at his door. Not saying the Tories would have done any better, but it was on Brown's watch and Cameron and Osborne had to sort it out.
Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
Sadly it's real. Many BAME conservatives have spent the last couple of weeks receiving copious amounts of racist hate mail, mostly because they don't see themselves as victims but as successes.
Terms like "coconut" being used, meaning someone brown on the outside but white on the inside.
Labour BAME politicians have been receiving masses of racist hate mail for years but Tories have never seemed too concerned about that.
You'll be surprised to find out that yes, they were concerned, many stood up to condemn racist abuse of Diane Abbot among others at the last two elections.
They stood right behind those calling Abbot innumerate and illiterate though, not all criticism of someone from the BAME "community" is racist.
Should the Guardian be allowed to publish cartoons like this?
That cartoon shows graphically the unbridled hatred the left has for BAME tories. Its like they broke a sacred pact. We brought you here to vote labour in eternity. Where's the gratitude?
What is interesting about that cartoon is that it uses racist tropes against Hindus (and presumed Hindus) directly from the racist propaganda from extremists in another culture.
Steve Bell is, in my opinion, a vile cartoonist. No satire, no lampooning, no parody, just bile.
And worst of all, he is not funny.
I am not even sure that is the worst of it (although its true). The example of Patel in that cartoon goes way beyond not funny. It is stunning that a mainstream publication saw fit to publish it.
It's not great. One recoils.
"not great"?
To draw someone ethnically Hindu as a cow is "not great"? If it had been a picture of a black Labour minister drawn as a monkey, or a Muslim Labour minister drawn as a pig would you call it "not great"?
I appreciate you said "recoils" and good for that, but its beyond the pale. The Guardian hasn't moved on from its support of the Confederacy it seems if it thinks publishing a cartoon like that is acceptable. If the Daily Mail had shown a cartoon of Diane Abbott as a monkey I think you'd get an immense response to denounce that.
I often say "not great" to indicate severe disapproval.
Your "Abbott as a monkey" comparison is crass and clumsy.
Don't be crass and clumsy, Philip.
Why is it crass and clumsy? It is literally the same thing, a racist image that would be utterly disgusting to be either drawn or published. What was worse than crass and clumsy was for the Guardian to publish what it did which was every bit as bad as if another paper had published Abbott as a monkey.
Steve Bell has done it too often for it not to be deliberate, but he gets away with it because there is a level of deniability. There is no deniability about drawing Abbott as a monkey. In any case, that The Guardian uses him is an utter disgrace.
Good for him - a very good answer to the question.
Protesting Police brutality is "from Game of Thrones", 100% correct, a very good answer?
Stop drinking so early in the day, guys.
Bending the knee has been a sign of subjugation since time immemorial and I don't want my leaders subjugating themselves before Marxist protesters. Hope that helps.
Can you enlighten me to whom Kaepernick (& various other black sportsmen) was subjugating himself when bending his knee?
What relevance does his personal interpretation of the gesture have to us? Why should a British Foreign Secretary kneel because an American footballer wants to campaign about specific issues of police brutality in his own country that have no relevance here?
Let US protest groups use their own gestures in their own way without forcing them on us.
The relevance is that the current meme of taking the knee stems from Kaepernick so I'd imagine if a British Foreign Secretary is going to blether shyte on the subject he should probably be referencing that rather than *checks notes* Game of Thrones.
On the contrary, the GoT reference got his point across in a way that everyone who watched the show would understand and which framed his argument from his desired perspective. A textbook piece of effective political communication, actually.
Speaking purely to the minority of people who happened to have watched a subscription TV show is a textbook piece of effective political communication?
You're peaking a bit early today. Leaving yourself nowhere to go.
He's right, though. Raab very clearly wanted to get across the idea that kneeling in support of Black Lives Matter is an act of subjugation, not of solidarity. Why Raab would want to do that is pretty clear. The government is intent on fighting a culture war. It has nothing else to offer.
I fear you're right. So so depressing.
Black Lives Matter is a far left organisation whose views and aims have never been testesd at the ballot box. It doesn;t have a single councillor, let alone an MP.
Quite why anybody of any color should respect that record is beyond me. Let alone 'take a knee'.
The conservatives polled 13 plus million votes. Donald Trump over sixty million. There are no knees for them.
There should, in our democracy, be no short cuts to power, influence and respect. There certainly weren't for UKIP and the Brexit party. There should not be for BLM either.
As the 'More or less' reporter - Again some very interesting stuff. Three separate topics on Covid two of which I found particularly interesting.
Again the double counting cropped up in a different guise and this time the double counting has really screwed up the information for anyone trying to defend it.
This time it was the 'test and track' and the confusion of why so many had not been tracked. I remember on the day the discrepancy was given as due to people not responding or not being found. But this isn't the case. Firstly the non England figures have to be removed as they are not included in the stats, but that still left only 8000 from 12000 cases tracked.
It appears that 4000 of those 8000 had taken 2 tests and you only need to track someone once. So it isn't 12000 but actually only 8000.
See what happens when you test someone twice and count it as two tests! You cause utter confusion.
So the immediate response was this is good news then; only 8000 and not 12000 cases. But no, because the random testing shows there are 30,000 odd cases so it means you have just picked up a smaller number. The cases hasn't changed, you have just found less.
The information being given out at these daily briefings was crap and is still crap. At least this time not deliberately so.
"More or Less" has been superb over this crisis. Essential listening. I listen to some episodes twice - including the last one.
Agree, Perhaps why it has been given two more episodes.
Comments
To draw someone ethnically Hindu as a cow is "not great"? If it had been a picture of a black Labour minister drawn as a monkey, or a Muslim Labour minister drawn as a pig would you call it "not great"?
I appreciate you said "recoils" and good for that, but its beyond the pale. The Guardian hasn't moved on from its support of the Confederacy it seems if it thinks publishing a cartoon like that is acceptable. If the Daily Mail had shown a cartoon of Diane Abbott as a monkey I think you'd get an immense response to denounce that.
The thought that an unpartisan, open minded chap like yersel was open to persuasion if only I'd marshalled the right arguments wounds me.
It's almost as if most people prefer the dignified approach of Raab to that of Starmer the knee-bender...
I do have a funny story related to it though. One of the stars lives locally and came to see a play I was appearing in, but didn't get let in because we'd sold out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5yzYqs94BQ
It's a superb series, seriously marred by the Mother of Dragons subplot (where most of the tits are) and the complete mess of the final season.
But he has spoilt things somewhat by talking utter bollox about "kneeling" and "Game of Thrones". Why not say he is "not up for token gestures" rather than just not up for THIS token gesture?
As it is, it begs the obvious question -
"Ok, Dom, understood, kneeling is a no no, except to the Queen, so how about doing something else to demonstrate your anti-racist credentials? Something that does not make you think of Her Majesty or Game of Thrones. Like - yes this would surely work - how about you put a black glove on, lower your eyes to the floor, and raise a fist? Cool with that?"
See what I mean? - He is being a bit of a plonker, I'm afraid.
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/wirecard-deutscher-zahlungsabwickler-wird-zum-kriminalfall-16820867.html?GEPC=s3
"On this taking the knee thing, I don't know maybe it's got a broader history, it seems to be taken from the Game of Thrones"
He doesn't know. He says he doesn't know.
He's the Foreign Secretary, it's his job to know what's going on around the world, especially if it's a big story in a big country.
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-government-preparing-shock-and-awe-brexit-media-campaign/
I have. Starting to increase my Brexit food stockpile again.
There are people out there who bang on about how Hindus are cow/devil worshippers. They are universally not nice people.
The cartoon has a strong resemblance to ones published in their hate rags.
My last forays to Govan and Rosyth suggest that not much pork from the barrel stuck around.
What I would be slightly concerned about if I was Biden in that only two of those states (Florida and Michigan), does he get to 50% of the vote and then only marginally. Several states (Ohio, Wisconsin, Arizona) have 10%+ of respondents saying either don't know or third party votes. That would raise fears about shy Trump voters.
His work is more about making the people he disagrees with look grotesque (and that's most people, including the majority of the Labour party), rather than making any clever satirical points.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1273575032036392961?s=20
That £100bn is essentially the cost of the UK furlough scheme in total.
As I said earlier this year, the UK is never going to repay what its spending on COVID, it will all either be written off as QE or we'll just pay interest on it.
It wouldn't surprise me if by the end of the year net of Quantitative Easing we end up not much more in debt than we started the year with, despite furlough and everything else.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2000/mar/15/pressandpublishing.tvnews
https://twitter.com/LordMcConnell/status/1273551915717201920?s=20
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1273576241501782021
But that the Foreign Secretary could go on TV and show such ignorance that he doesn't know the origins of the symbolism is gobsmacking. It ranks up there with the young ignorant idiot being interviewed by Channel 4 that went viral earlier this week when she said about Churchill that she has never met him.
The difference is that Raab is not just an MP but Foreign Secretary.
If a Labour MP said that they didn't want to wear a poppy then I would understand that is their choice. If an MP said they didn't know the origins of the poppy and it was maybe to do with a TV show that would be another matter.
His ignorance is remarkable. Raab is an idiot and he should go.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/eerie-cottage-left-frozen-time-22208495?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mirror_main&fbclid=IwAR382Yw-qvEmOm4m6G0Eg83ov5KO-c7Gfmyk1uL-h5CkyJ3A98Mec5S6rrQ
In any case Trump's price is likely to fall in the next 4 weeks what with Bolton (incl. China), Tulsa, and Mary.
Pence shouldn't be as far ahead of the other non-Trump Republicans in the betting market as he is. He may be Trump's presumptive running-mate but how much does "presumptive" count for? Scenarios where he quits the race can be categorised as follows for where they leave Pence:
1) Trump leaves office early;
2) Trump quits race, serves out term;
A) Pence as Trump's RM
B ) Someone else as Trump's RM;
C) Trump quits race or leaves office before formally choosing RM.
1B, 1C don't leave Pence strong even though he'd (probably) be President.
The impeachment conviction subclass of 1 wouldn't be good for Pence whether A, B, or C: there was no President Agnew. The 25th amendment subclass might or might not be good for Pence. If he were to be seen as the instigator that'd be fine, but he might appear merely as the man who said "OK" when the military told him "Sign this", thereby keeping the coup constitutional.
Even with 2, if it's before the convention there will be a contest surely, rather than enough of the leadership agreeing Pence is the best unity candidate or unity doesn't matter.
The above six cells are by no means the whole picture, because, well, anything could happen. Trump could quit the race saying he will serve out his term and then leave office anyway, voluntarily or involuntarily, or goodness knows what.
https://twitter.com/cairnstoon/status/1273578884819271682?s=20
Personally, I thought the footballers looked a bit silly last night.
Whatever you think about BLM, this news story has been one of the biggest foreign stories for years and domestically has been one of the biggest news stories for two to three weeks now.
Whatever you think of the symbolism of kneeling, for Raab as Foreign Secretary and First Secretary of State to have not even bothered to learn what the symbolism of one of the biggest news stories in this country even means - and to be proud and willing to announce such ignorance on the news . . . its gobsmacking.
The man is incompetent and should be gone. Disagree with the symbolism all you like, but to not even bother to learn about it is remarkable.
I remember 40 odd years ago my economics A level tutor told me increases in M3 was inflationary and generally BAD. Presumably increases in M3 are now good.
Your "Abbott as a monkey" comparison is crass and clumsy.
Don't be crass and clumsy, Philip.
I am happy for him to be in govt, though because I strongly disagree with almost every policy this govt promulgates.
Now understanding what's happening in America is literally his job as a punctilious politician.
Neither of them are uniquely general knowledge questions, although you would expect any contestant on Mastermind to be able to answer both of them.
Unlike Raab.
He's an idiot.
Which is why BoZo put him in cabinet.
I'm an atheist but I have knelt before in both Churches and Temples long before any of this came about. In those instances it wasn't about subservience or subjugation it was about showing respect.
"I feared it might injure the brain;
But now that I'm perfectly sure I have none,
Why, I do it again and again."
Give him a chance.
I was trying not to conclude that - getting so bored with this "culture war" crap - but others of my ilk have steered me to the obvious. Oh dear. Ah well.
You shouldn't be supporting this sort of stuff, you really shouldn't, but I don't suppose you'll listen to me.
So after speaking with veterans groups he changed the protest from sitting on a bench during the anthem to kneeling, because that was more respectful than sitting.
Again kneeling is a traditional symbolism of respect not just subjugation.
Quite why anybody of any color should respect that record is beyond me. Let alone 'take a knee'.
The conservatives polled 13 plus million votes. Donald Trump over sixty million. There are no knees for them.
There should, in our democracy, be no short cuts to power, influence and respect. There certainly weren't for UKIP and the Brexit party. There should not be for BLM either.