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  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    .Been watching this for a year or two. They’re finally building a full scale plant.

    World’s biggest liquid air battery starts construction in UK
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/18/worlds-biggest-liquid-air-battery-starts-construction-in-uk
    ... Construction is beginning on the world’s largest liquid air battery, which will store renewable electricity and reduce carbon emissions from fossil-fuel power plants.

    The project near Manchester, UK, will use spare green energy to compress (sic) air into a liquid and store it. When demand is higher, the liquid air is released back into a gas, powering a turbine that puts the green energy back into the grid.

    A big expansion of wind and solar energy is vital to tackle the climate emergency but they are not always available. Storage is therefore key and the new project will be the largest in the world outside of pumped hydro schemes, which require a mountain reservoir to store water.

    The new liquid air battery (sic), being developed by Highview Power, is due to be operational in 2022 and will be able to power up to 200,000 homes for five hours, and store power for many weeks. Chemical batteries are also needed for the transition to a zero-carbon world and are plummeting in price, but can only store relatively small amounts of electricity for short periods....

    Absolutely no indication in that article how efficient it is. Do you know how much energy is lost liquifying the air and then returning it to gas to drive a turbine? That surely is the key to this.
    Compressors are extremely efficient, usually in the 99% range.
    Do you mean that 99% of the energy used to compress the air is recovered when it is returned to gas? That would be absolutely incredible but I find it very hard to believe.
    No, 99% of the electricity is converted to potential energy as stored compressed air. Overall the process is probably well above 90% in terms of efficiency, nothing in there is an unknown. It's a series of 95%+ efficiency steps.

    The most undesirable effect will be noise pollution from the compression (low frequency noise) and decompression (high frequency noise, it is noticeable for some people, especially people under 40) of air.
    Thanks. It has to be a better and less annoying noise than those sound effects at the Etihad last night.
    Do you not feel even a little bit sorry for the TV company boffins whose computers select clips for the highlight shows based on analysing crowd reactions?
  • SurreySurrey Posts: 190

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Bolton is one of the few men alive capable of making one sympathetic to Trump. Trump seems to have Bolton spot on with “ A disgruntled boring fool who only wanted to go to war.“

    Well maybe. I suspect that the book by Trump's niece Mary Trump may be even more impactful. It's published on July 28th. I think it may finish off Trump's chances.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/books/2020/06/15/donald-trump-niece-mary-trump-tells-all-family-new-book/3191031001/
    Some of these attacks are misjudged. Trump draws energy from criticism and outsider status. It is worth noting that Clinton was similarly ahead in the polls at this stage. Her campaign succeeded only in pushing Trumps support underground. This stuff risks doing the same thing.

    To dismantle Trump, requires a different approach. So long as he owns the MAGA theme, he will be hard to shift.
    The problem of normalcy bias ...
    Trump's branding for those who aren't in his core is all over the place. It's not so much MAGA as "KAG" (how will that fare even if there's not a second wave?) and the crazed imperial-pharaonic "Transition to Greatness". The price of laying Trump as the Republican nominee "as a result of the 2020 RNC" is 1.07. He may well be forced out one way or another before the convention.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited June 2020

    And I know people who are booking to go to Portugal. I would have no issue about doing so. Wear a mask, use sanitiser and get out there and live your life.

    Hear, hear. Those who have booked already must, I guess, be gambling on the changing of the FCO advice which currently states "essential travel only". Airlines will allow changes, of course, but I can`t be bothered with that hassle. We`re waiting for guidance to change before booking anything. I reckon many families are doing similarly - then there will be a rush for flights.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    An interesting Guardian long read on the ups and downs of global tourism:

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/jun/18/end-of-tourism-coronavirus-pandemic-travel-industry

    Does it manage to have a go at the Govt at the same time>? I would be surprised if it was bile free...
    The article appears to be complaining simultaneously that there’s both too much tourism and not enough of it.
    Tourism is fecked for a year at least or ought to be....but people want holidays and will ignore the risks and Govts will let it happen because of financial imperatives.
    Pretty much no-one I've spoken to has any interest in foreign holidays this year, although a few need to travel over the summer for work and family reasons.
    .
    Wow that's not my experience at all. Every young person I've spoken to can't wait to get away. I'm not young but I'm in the same boat, or aircraft. In fact I've already booked a fortnight in SE Asia for late Fall.
    You're looking forward to sitting for 14 hours in a middle seat, wearing a mask and gloves, with limited food and no drink service - to be followed by a fortnight's quarantine when you get home, if your destination doesn't also decide to quarantine you on the way in, with no travel insurance for Covid risks?

    There may be a few twenty-somethings up for that, as something to tell the future grand-kids they did during the 2020 pandemic, but anyone elderly or with kids sure as hell doesn't want to go near a plane they don't have to be on.
    I don't think I will be taking a flight for more than an hour for some time to come. I will do my best to stay away from airports completely. Let's face it they were truly appalling places before this: unbelievably crap service, utterly absurd and pointless security requirements (never, ever caught a terrorist), designed to make a rat in a maze feel good as they pushed you by shops you just might be bored enough to shop in. And now an airborne disease! Fantastic.
    I agree that Airports and Flying is crap, but your comment on terrorism is inappropriate.

    The point of airport security is not to catch terrorists, but to stop them from attempting an attack. This is something which can only be assesed using counterfactuals and so is not really provable.

    In comparison to the early mid & 70s when any political fanatic could hijack a plane it is clear that security measures have reduced the incidence of hijacking considerably. In the USA in 2001 the internal flight security was very lax, and the hijackers' weapons on 11/9/2001 would probably have been detected in a European airport.

    The massively annoying limitation on liquids in hand baggage was more or less introduced overnight due to good intellegence about a planned attack using liquid explosive. This attack did not take place, whether it woud have been succesful had the liquid restiction not been imposed, is unknowable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Selebian said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    An interesting Guardian long read on the ups and downs of global tourism:

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/jun/18/end-of-tourism-coronavirus-pandemic-travel-industry

    Does it manage to have a go at the Govt at the same time>? I would be surprised if it was bile free...
    The article appears to be complaining simultaneously that there’s both too much tourism and not enough of it.
    You can't accuse the author of a lack of balance :wink:
    Indeed so, but strange as it feels for me to say this, it's ok to take a strong stance!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Morning all,
    I have always thought Bolton was in the same "dangerous fruitbat" camp as Benjamin Netanyahu. For Trump to attack Bolton is absurd. He really seems to be marginalising all the right-wingers who helped get him where he is. That probably means he will get re-elected because I just cannot fathom out the American electorate. One lot of cousins think Trump is a basket case but don't much like Biden either. Another lot think Trump walks on water! Some just despair for their country.

    It is amazing to think Trump is so mad and incompetent even Mattis and Bolton are criticising him.

    That’s pretty hardcore levels of incompetence we’re talking about.
    What’s the reason for including Mattis in this? Isn’t he pretty universally seen as a good guy - with the joke being that Trump only hires him in the first place because he didn’t realise that the nickname “Mad-dog” was, well, a joke?
    "I don't lose any sleep at night over the potential for failure. I cannot even spell the word."
    "The first time you blow someone away is not an insignificant event. That said, there are some assholes in the world that just need to be shot."
    "I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you [expletive] with me, I'll kill you all."
    "The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears."
    "There is nothing better than getting shot at and missed. It's really great."
    "I'm going to plead with you, do not cross us. Because if you do, the survivors will write about what we do here for 10,000 years."
    "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."


    If you say so...

    (source: BBC, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38056197 )
    “Torture and cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment is never a morally permissible option, even if lives depend on gaining information,” is his best work.
    Interesting get-out clause there though.
    No get out clause at all. Mattis is completely against inhuman treatment of prisoners or axptured enemy personnel. His opposition to the use of torture put him at odds with the Bush administration.

    He literally wrote the book on how wrong the use of torture is.
    Mattis's line (earlier in this thread) about the exhileration of being shot at and missed echoes Churchill, of course.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    .Been watching this for a year or two. They’re finally building a full scale plant.

    World’s biggest liquid air battery starts construction in UK
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/18/worlds-biggest-liquid-air-battery-starts-construction-in-uk
    ... Construction is beginning on the world’s largest liquid air battery, which will store renewable electricity and reduce carbon emissions from fossil-fuel power plants.

    The project near Manchester, UK, will use spare green energy to compress (sic) air into a liquid and store it. When demand is higher, the liquid air is released back into a gas, powering a turbine that puts the green energy back into the grid.

    A big expansion of wind and solar energy is vital to tackle the climate emergency but they are not always available. Storage is therefore key and the new project will be the largest in the world outside of pumped hydro schemes, which require a mountain reservoir to store water.

    The new liquid air battery (sic), being developed by Highview Power, is due to be operational in 2022 and will be able to power up to 200,000 homes for five hours, and store power for many weeks. Chemical batteries are also needed for the transition to a zero-carbon world and are plummeting in price, but can only store relatively small amounts of electricity for short periods....

    Absolutely no indication in that article how efficient it is. Do you know how much energy is lost liquifying the air and then returning it to gas to drive a turbine? That surely is the key to this.
    Compressors are extremely efficient, usually in the 99% range.
    Do you mean that 99% of the energy used to compress the air is recovered when it is returned to gas? That would be absolutely incredible but I find it very hard to believe.
    No, 99% of the electricity is converted to potential energy as stored compressed air. Overall the process is probably well above 90% in terms of efficiency, nothing in there is an unknown. It's a series of 95%+ efficiency steps.

    The most undesirable effect will be noise pollution from the compression (low frequency noise) and decompression (high frequency noise, it is noticeable for some people, especially people under 40) of air.
    Thanks. It has to be a better and less annoying noise than those sound effects at the Etihad last night.
    Do you not feel even a little bit sorry for the TV company boffins whose computers select clips for the highlight shows based on analysing crowd reactions?
    No.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Morning all,
    I have always thought Bolton was in the same "dangerous fruitbat" camp as Benjamin Netanyahu. For Trump to attack Bolton is absurd. He really seems to be marginalising all the right-wingers who helped get him where he is. That probably means he will get re-elected because I just cannot fathom out the American electorate. One lot of cousins think Trump is a basket case but don't much like Biden either. Another lot think Trump walks on water! Some just despair for their country.

    It is amazing to think Trump is so mad and incompetent even Mattis and Bolton are criticising him.

    That’s pretty hardcore levels of incompetence we’re talking about.
    What’s the reason for including Mattis in this? Isn’t he pretty universally seen as a good guy - with the joke being that Trump only hires him in the first place because he didn’t realise that the nickname “Mad-dog” was, well, a joke?
    "I don't lose any sleep at night over the potential for failure. I cannot even spell the word."
    "The first time you blow someone away is not an insignificant event. That said, there are some assholes in the world that just need to be shot."
    "I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you [expletive] with me, I'll kill you all."
    "The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears."
    "There is nothing better than getting shot at and missed. It's really great."
    "I'm going to plead with you, do not cross us. Because if you do, the survivors will write about what we do here for 10,000 years."
    "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."


    If you say so...

    (source: BBC, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38056197 )
    “Torture and cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment is never a morally permissible option, even if lives depend on gaining information,” is his best work.
    Interesting get-out clause there though.
    No get out clause at all. Mattis is completely against inhuman treatment of prisoners or axptured enemy personnel. His opposition to the use of torture put him at odds with the Bush administration.

    He literally wrote the book on how wrong the use of torture is.
    You seem to have overlooked the use of the word 'morally.' Something that is not morally permissible can still be permissible.

    That does not mean that I am saying he is in favour of torture. Just that if he wanted his statement to be watertight, he should have said, 'is never a permissible option.'

    Anyway, I have teaching to do. Later.
    He has plenty of other statements that make it more than water tight.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    eristdoof said:

    Ratters said:

    The references to the last US election ('Hillary was ahead'...) sound an awful lot like those who said Corbyn was going to close the gap last year in the same way he did in 2017.

    Trump is much further behind, his opponent is far less divisive than his last one, and the left are motivated in a way they weren't last time. So I think the most likely outcome is a comfortable Biden victory.

    And a chunk of the traditional Republicans, wary of Trump 4 years ago but prepared to give him his vote, are long fed up with his antics.
    One hopes so, but they might be on too deep if they think the Biden backlash will be severe.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Morning all,

    Villa best not survive by a single point or GD.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    The move to block publication of the book is I think an own goal by Trump. He could have just claimed that it was "fake news" from start to finish. Instead he is signalling even to his own base that much of its contents is true, contents which are already in the public domain.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    IanB2 said:

    An interesting Guardian long read on the ups and downs of global tourism:

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/jun/18/end-of-tourism-coronavirus-pandemic-travel-industry

    I understand that Thailand has closed it's borders to tourists, with the intention of 'encouraging' rich Thai's, who might otherwise spend their 'holiday morning outside the country doing so inside Thailand.
    Thailand re-opens to global tourism in 12 days time. And Thailand is absolutely utterly dependent on overseas tourists.
    Reference, please. We have family there and were hoping to visit at Christmas. The last time we discussed the situation, IIRC, British tourists for certain and probably others faced a fortnight's quarantine on arrival.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    edited June 2020
    Surrey said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Bolton is one of the few men alive capable of making one sympathetic to Trump. Trump seems to have Bolton spot on with “ A disgruntled boring fool who only wanted to go to war.“

    Well maybe. I suspect that the book by Trump's niece Mary Trump may be even more impactful. It's published on July 28th. I think it may finish off Trump's chances.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/books/2020/06/15/donald-trump-niece-mary-trump-tells-all-family-new-book/3191031001/
    Some of these attacks are misjudged. Trump draws energy from criticism and outsider status. It is worth noting that Clinton was similarly ahead in the polls at this stage. Her campaign succeeded only in pushing Trumps support underground. This stuff risks doing the same thing.

    To dismantle Trump, requires a different approach. So long as he owns the MAGA theme, he will be hard to shift.
    The problem of normalcy bias ...
    Trump's branding for those who aren't in his core is all over the place. It's not so much MAGA as "KAG" (how will that fare even if there's not a second wave?) and the crazed imperial-pharaonic "Transition to Greatness". The price of laying Trump as the Republican nominee "as a result of the 2020 RNC" is 1.07. He may well be forced out one way or another before the convention.
    Doubt it v much. The GOP are in thrall to this maniac.

    It is incredible and terrifying to watch a democracy eat itself alive.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Stocky said:

    And I know people who are booking to go to Portugal. I would have no issue about doing so. Wear a mask, use sanitiser and get out there and live your life.

    Hear, hear. Those who have booked already must, I guess, be gambling on the changing of the FCO advice which currently states "essential travel only". Airlines will allow changes, of course, but I can`t be bothered with that hassle. We`re waiting for guidance to change before booking anything. I reckon many families are doing similarly - then there will be a rush for flights.
    Yes absolutely.

    Incidentally, and to echo what you have written, for those bold enough to book further afield with Qatar Airways, they have a rather impressive deal at the moment. You can book any flight directly with them and subsequently make up to 3 changes free of charge, or even cancel without penalty. And their long haul prices are currently pretty sensational. Sub £500 to most of SE Asia if you pick good dates.

    The other issue is travel insurance, which is somewhat more thorny. I've often travelled to places against FCO advice and still been covered but this situation is a little more opaque.

    N.B. I don't work for Qatar Airways or have any affiliation to them and I don't particularly admire the country. They're just a damned fine airline.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,249
    edited June 2020
    ydoethur said:

    Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.

    The last thing we need is for Cummings to start trying to meddle with Universities.

    He would turn them from rather pompous virtue-signalling fellow travellers to full fledged violent anarchists.
    I'd love to see a greater diversity in Universities, with more in the independent sector.

    Some of these people tipping £100-200m into Oxbridge institutes would do a better job by helping create smaller, more specialist universities imo. One of the things that can really underpin an area.

    University of Mansfield .... yum.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Stocky said:

    And I know people who are booking to go to Portugal. I would have no issue about doing so. Wear a mask, use sanitiser and get out there and live your life.

    Hear, hear. Those who have booked already must, I guess, be gambling on the changing of the FCO advice which currently states "essential travel only". Airlines will allow changes, of course, but I can`t be bothered with that hassle. We`re waiting for guidance to change before booking anything. I reckon many families are doing similarly - then there will be a rush for flights.
    Yes absolutely.

    Incidentally, and to echo what you have written, for those bold enough to book further afield with Qatar Airways, they have a rather impressive deal at the moment. You can book any flight directly with them and subsequently make up to 3 changes free of charge, or even cancel without penalty. And their long haul prices are currently pretty sensational. Sub £500 to most of SE Asia if you pick good dates.

    The other issue is travel insurance, which is somewhat more thorny. I've often travelled to places against FCO advice and still been covered but this situation is a little more opaque.

    N.B. I don't work for Qatar Airways or have any affiliation to them and I don't particularly admire the country. They're just a damned fine airline.
    Quarantine when you get there??
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    The allegations in the book are Trump wanted the Chinese to buy more US food, supported detention of the Uighur Muslims, called George Bush a 'stupid person' for invading Afghanistan, was mocked by Mike Pompeo and persuaded by Putin not to invade Venezuela and did not know we had nuclear weapons.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53086042

    Will that make the average Trump voter less likely to vote for him though? No. The allegations are more about reinforcing amongst the US elite why they despise Trump and he is unsuited for the office.

    For the average Trump voter in Ohio they might even agree with Trump.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    DavidL said:

    Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.

    They actually have bigger problems, certainly in Scotland where the Universities are facing a complete shit storm.

    The Scottish government gives £1820 per student with a set number of places. This of course is absolutely unsustainable for anything other than the most basic of institutions so Universities have sought English students (£9250 a pop) and foreign non EU students (up to £24K) to cross subsidise. The Russell group members in particular have been very successful at this allowing the Universities to thrive with an ever smaller part of their cohort being made up of Scottish students.

    Boris has now capped the number of English grants that will be paid to Scottish Universities and the foreigners are not coming because of Covid. The Scottish Government is not able to increase the number of places it funds because it has no money. I am not sure whether the likes of Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive. It really depends on how long the foreign market takes to recover but the clock is ticking

    Recessions, economic cycles and unexpected difficulties are part of life.

    If universities haven't prepared for those then they haven't been run well.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Surrey said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Bolton is one of the few men alive capable of making one sympathetic to Trump. Trump seems to have Bolton spot on with “ A disgruntled boring fool who only wanted to go to war.“

    Well maybe. I suspect that the book by Trump's niece Mary Trump may be even more impactful. It's published on July 28th. I think it may finish off Trump's chances.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/books/2020/06/15/donald-trump-niece-mary-trump-tells-all-family-new-book/3191031001/
    Some of these attacks are misjudged. Trump draws energy from criticism and outsider status. It is worth noting that Clinton was similarly ahead in the polls at this stage. Her campaign succeeded only in pushing Trumps support underground. This stuff risks doing the same thing.

    To dismantle Trump, requires a different approach. So long as he owns the MAGA theme, he will be hard to shift.
    The problem of normalcy bias ...
    Trump's branding for those who aren't in his core is all over the place. It's not so much MAGA as "KAG" (how will that fare even if there's not a second wave?) and the crazed imperial-pharaonic "Transition to Greatness". The price of laying Trump as the Republican nominee "as a result of the 2020 RNC" is 1.07. He may well be forced out one way or another before the convention.
    He won't be unless Trump delegates switch sides which is very unlikely
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Just ordered the Bolton book. My little way of protesting against that SOB Trump.

    If he's trying to stop publication then I'm sending the publisher a little bit of love.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    HYUFD said:

    The allegations in the book are Trump wanted the Chinese to buy more US food, supported detention of the Uighur Muslims, called George Bush a 'stupid person' for invading Afghanistan, was mocked by Mike Pompeo and persuaded by Putin not to invade Venezuela and did not know we had nuclear weapons.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53086042

    Will that make the average Trump voter less likely to vote for him though? No. The allegations are more about reinforcing amongst the US elite why they despise Trump and he is unsuited for the office.

    For the average Trump voter in Ohio they might even agree with Trump.

    The problem Trump may have is that there are not enough "avergae" Trump voters. He needs a good chunk of independents, too - as well as a low Democrat turnout. From here, he is going to need a major Biden meltdown, as well as heroic voter suppression efforts by the GOP. It's reasonable to assume both are possible - the latter especially.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.

    The last thing we need is for Cummings to start trying to meddle with Universities.

    He would turn them from rather pompous virtue-signalling fellow travellers to full fledged violent anarchists.
    I'd love to see a greater diversity in Universities, with more in the independent sector.

    Some of these people tipping £100-200m into Oxbridge institutes would do a better job by helping create smaller, more specialist universities imo. One of the things that can really underpin an area.

    University of Mansfield .... yum.
    Open University expansion, with online courses that can result in an actual degree qualification for a fraction of the price of residential, in-person courses.

    We need to use modern technology, to change the market for education for the better.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    edited June 2020
    WHO: Contact tracing is the key going forward.

    HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.


    This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.



  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    IanB2 said:

    An interesting Guardian long read on the ups and downs of global tourism:

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/jun/18/end-of-tourism-coronavirus-pandemic-travel-industry

    I understand that Thailand has closed it's borders to tourists, with the intention of 'encouraging' rich Thai's, who might otherwise spend their 'holiday morning outside the country doing so inside Thailand.
    Thailand re-opens to global tourism in 12 days time. And Thailand is absolutely utterly dependent on overseas tourists.
    Reference, please. We have family there and were hoping to visit at Christmas. The last time we discussed the situation, IIRC, British tourists for certain and probably others faced a fortnight's quarantine on arrival.
    Hiya OldKingCole: this site is great for daily updates: https://www.wanderlust.co.uk/content/coronavirus-travel-updates/

    "Thailand: All foreign nationals are barred from entering Thailand and international passenger flights to Thailand are suspended. However, Thai authorities have announced that Thailand will be open to tourists from 1 July."

    However, on closer inspection I think you're right that we're not quite there yet:

    https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/1936500/no-travel-bubbles-yet-for-tourists

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    WHO: Contact tracing is the key going forward.

    HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.


    This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.



    Arguably the app isn't a good means of contact tracing.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    Cyclefree said:

    It’s not just the hospitality trade asking the government for a clear message from the government and time to plan. It’s schools too.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/schools-and-coronavirus-head-teachers-need-a-clear-message-from-ministers-and-time-to-plan-7ftbdt7gj

    There seems to be a pattern here.

    If you put incompetents in charge, you get incompetence. This is only the start. It's going to get a whole lot worse!

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434
    The company behind the liquid air energy storage claim an efficiency of 60-75%.

    https://highviewpower.com/technology/

    They have some interesting hints about heat exchange with co-located industrial plants - though the most intriguing detail for me is that it sounds as though the storage is at cryogenic temperatures for periods up to weeks - that must be impressive insulation, unless I've misread it.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    .Been watching this for a year or two. They’re finally building a full scale plant.

    World’s biggest liquid air battery starts construction in UK
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/18/worlds-biggest-liquid-air-battery-starts-construction-in-uk
    ... Construction is beginning on the world’s largest liquid air battery, which will store renewable electricity and reduce carbon emissions from fossil-fuel power plants.

    The project near Manchester, UK, will use spare green energy to compress (sic) air into a liquid and store it. When demand is higher, the liquid air is released back into a gas, powering a turbine that puts the green energy back into the grid.

    A big expansion of wind and solar energy is vital to tackle the climate emergency but they are not always available. Storage is therefore key and the new project will be the largest in the world outside of pumped hydro schemes, which require a mountain reservoir to store water.

    The new liquid air battery (sic), being developed by Highview Power, is due to be operational in 2022 and will be able to power up to 200,000 homes for five hours, and store power for many weeks. Chemical batteries are also needed for the transition to a zero-carbon world and are plummeting in price, but can only store relatively small amounts of electricity for short periods....

    That’s a very interesting development. One of the things that has concerned me about our current obsession with batteries is that the materials used to make them are (a) rare and (b) themselves pretty environmentally unfriendly. I have been struggling to see as a result how batteries are the longer term solution to energy needs.

    But if compressed air can be used in this way, that would change things.
    Lithium isn’t rare at all - just hard to recover economically.
    That, I think, is set to change in a year or two, as there’s a new technology for separating it out (which I’ll try to post about later).
    Battery makers are gradually getting rid of the need for cobalt.

    There’s a lot of other stuff going on (silicon/sulphur battery chemistries, for instance).

    We’re not there yet, but a fully sustainable battery economy isn’t all that far off.
    Energy density in batteries also tends to be much higher than other options, which is relevant if the land needed for the storage solution is expensive. Probably less of an issue for ideas of using old mine-shafts etc, which I guess are pretty cheap having few other uses and likely too highly contaminated for e.g. residential building land.

    (fun fact, different chemistry to grid storage etc, but an AA battery contains approximately enough energy to lift a 1kg weight to a height of 1km)
    surely a 1kg Mass not weight.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Fishing said:

    Some great threads by Robert and Mike that I've just caught up on.

    My sense is that Trump is in trouble and I'm starting to agree now with Robert that this could be a 'blow out' election.

    Trying to call Presdiential elections before the conventions is a mug's game. Almost like talking about UK opinion polls four years before the next election.
    True, George W Bush in 2004, George Bush Snr in 1988, Reagan in 1980 just 3 examples of candidates who trailed before the conventions but took a clear poll lead after. Trump is going ahead with the Republican convention in Charlotte, North Carolina.

    In 2000 Gore also trailed before the conventions but got enough of a bounce to make it neck and neck until polling day and beyond too

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    WHO: Contact tracing is the key going forward.

    HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.


    This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.



    Be comforted by the £1m paint job of Britola Gay.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    WHO: Contact tracing is the key going forward.

    HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.


    This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.



    Arguably the app isn't a good means of contact tracing.
    I think it's a good way of getting people to get a test.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    WHO: Contact tracing is the key going forward.

    HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.


    This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.



    In other government delivery scheduling news it was intriguing to hear of the improved fax machine protocols due in 2022, steam train safety guidelines due in 2023 and the report on the impact of the horse and cart on city centres in 2024.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    The company behind the liquid air energy storage claim an efficiency of 60-75%.

    https://highviewpower.com/technology/

    They have some interesting hints about heat exchange with co-located industrial plants - though the most intriguing detail for me is that it sounds as though the storage is at cryogenic temperatures for periods up to weeks - that must be impressive insulation, unless I've misread it.

    Storage at very low temperatures makes sense as it sidesteps the cracking issues, it's probably also why the efficiency is much lower as there is a cost to keeping everything that cold.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,434

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    .Been watching this for a year or two. They’re finally building a full scale plant.

    World’s biggest liquid air battery starts construction in UK
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/18/worlds-biggest-liquid-air-battery-starts-construction-in-uk
    ... Construction is beginning on the world’s largest liquid air battery, which will store renewable electricity and reduce carbon emissions from fossil-fuel power plants.

    The project near Manchester, UK, will use spare green energy to compress (sic) air into a liquid and store it. When demand is higher, the liquid air is released back into a gas, powering a turbine that puts the green energy back into the grid.

    A big expansion of wind and solar energy is vital to tackle the climate emergency but they are not always available. Storage is therefore key and the new project will be the largest in the world outside of pumped hydro schemes, which require a mountain reservoir to store water.

    The new liquid air battery (sic), being developed by Highview Power, is due to be operational in 2022 and will be able to power up to 200,000 homes for five hours, and store power for many weeks. Chemical batteries are also needed for the transition to a zero-carbon world and are plummeting in price, but can only store relatively small amounts of electricity for short periods....

    That’s a very interesting development. One of the things that has concerned me about our current obsession with batteries is that the materials used to make them are (a) rare and (b) themselves pretty environmentally unfriendly. I have been struggling to see as a result how batteries are the longer term solution to energy needs.

    But if compressed air can be used in this way, that would change things.
    Lithium isn’t rare at all - just hard to recover economically.
    That, I think, is set to change in a year or two, as there’s a new technology for separating it out (which I’ll try to post about later).
    Battery makers are gradually getting rid of the need for cobalt.

    There’s a lot of other stuff going on (silicon/sulphur battery chemistries, for instance).

    We’re not there yet, but a fully sustainable battery economy isn’t all that far off.
    Energy density in batteries also tends to be much higher than other options, which is relevant if the land needed for the storage solution is expensive. Probably less of an issue for ideas of using old mine-shafts etc, which I guess are pretty cheap having few other uses and likely too highly contaminated for e.g. residential building land.

    (fun fact, different chemistry to grid storage etc, but an AA battery contains approximately enough energy to lift a 1kg weight to a height of 1km)
    surely a 1kg Mass not weight.
    If the gravity is lower so that the mass only weighs 200g, then the energy required would be less, so weight is correct unless you want to specify a gravitational field strength too.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    IanB2 said:

    An interesting Guardian long read on the ups and downs of global tourism:

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/jun/18/end-of-tourism-coronavirus-pandemic-travel-industry

    I understand that Thailand has closed it's borders to tourists, with the intention of 'encouraging' rich Thai's, who might otherwise spend their 'holiday morning outside the country doing so inside Thailand.
    Thailand re-opens to global tourism in 12 days time. And Thailand is absolutely utterly dependent on overseas tourists.
    Reference, please. We have family there and were hoping to visit at Christmas. The last time we discussed the situation, IIRC, British tourists for certain and probably others faced a fortnight's quarantine on arrival.
    Hiya OldKingCole: this site is great for daily updates: https://www.wanderlust.co.uk/content/coronavirus-travel-updates/

    "Thailand: All foreign nationals are barred from entering Thailand and international passenger flights to Thailand are suspended. However, Thai authorities have announced that Thailand will be open to tourists from 1 July."

    However, on closer inspection I think you're right that we're not quite there yet:

    https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/1936500/no-travel-bubbles-yet-for-tourists

    Many thanks, Mysticrose (is it Mr or Ms.....just asking as I like to use such titles.).
    Pretty well confirms what Son-in-Thailand was saying the other day. He has a very important meeting in Singapore shortly, which he has been worrying about, and which apparently requires him to actually be present.
    Bangkok Post is, I've found, a reliable source of such information.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.

    The last thing we need is for Cummings to start trying to meddle with Universities.

    He would turn them from rather pompous virtue-signalling fellow travellers to full fledged violent anarchists.
    I'd love to see a greater diversity in Universities, with more in the independent sector.

    Some of these people tipping £100-200m into Oxbridge institutes would do a better job by helping create smaller, more specialist universities imo. One of the things that can really underpin an area.

    University of Mansfield .... yum.
    University research is more widespread than used to be the case. This is because high fees gave the University of Mansfield the money to hire top-class researchers in biochemistry or history or whatever they prioritised. Mansfield cannot yet compete across the board but it can afford a handful of world authorities.

    University teaching of undergraduates is as good at Mansfield as anywhere else.

    Where Mansfield cannot compete is where Oxbridge dominates as a finishing school, no longer for the idle rich but for the brainy well-off. And this is where the damage is done. Politics, the media and professions are dominated by Oxbridge graduates because that is where connections are made and, more damningly, because the best employers do not look anywhere else.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    .Been watching this for a year or two. They’re finally building a full scale plant.

    World’s biggest liquid air battery starts construction in UK
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/18/worlds-biggest-liquid-air-battery-starts-construction-in-uk
    ... Construction is beginning on the world’s largest liquid air battery, which will store renewable electricity and reduce carbon emissions from fossil-fuel power plants.

    The project near Manchester, UK, will use spare green energy to compress (sic) air into a liquid and store it. When demand is higher, the liquid air is released back into a gas, powering a turbine that puts the green energy back into the grid.

    A big expansion of wind and solar energy is vital to tackle the climate emergency but they are not always available. Storage is therefore key and the new project will be the largest in the world outside of pumped hydro schemes, which require a mountain reservoir to store water.

    The new liquid air battery (sic), being developed by Highview Power, is due to be operational in 2022 and will be able to power up to 200,000 homes for five hours, and store power for many weeks. Chemical batteries are also needed for the transition to a zero-carbon world and are plummeting in price, but can only store relatively small amounts of electricity for short periods....

    That’s a very interesting development. One of the things that has concerned me about our current obsession with batteries is that the materials used to make them are (a) rare and (b) themselves pretty environmentally unfriendly. I have been struggling to see as a result how batteries are the longer term solution to energy needs.

    But if compressed air can be used in this way, that would change things.
    The Germans have used compressed air batteries in combination with natural gas fired power stations, and have managed pretty impressive full cycle efficiencies.

    See: http://www.apexcaes.com/caes
    Air liquefaction has some advantage over that, though.
    It can't be built anywhere, as it doesn't require large storage caverns; it doesn't need gas to be burned to help drive turbines, as it can recover energy from waste heat generated by thermal power plants (including nuclear) to drive the phase change from liquid to gas.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    WHO: Contact tracing is the key going forward.

    HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.


    This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.

    To be fair, most Western countries have abandoned apps, they're not brilliant unless almost everyone uses them, and a lot of authorities messed up their understanding of the technology required.

    It's going to be worth following what's happening in Germany, where they do appear to have a working app based on the correct technology.

    Old-fashioned human-based contact tracing is probably a better place for effort to be focusses at the moment.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354

    Jonathan said:

    Bolton is one of the few men alive capable of making one sympathetic to Trump. Trump seems to have Bolton spot on with “ A disgruntled boring fool who only wanted to go to war.“

    Trump also resisted hiring Bolton for a long time because he didn't trust men with moustaches, which actually seems quite astute. Bolton is a worse person than Trump, or at least a more dangerous one, but if he wants to piss on Trump from a great heigh I won't stand in his way.
    Yes, I'd be inclined to agree with that.

    I always thought that if we got through a Trump Presidency without a truly catastrophic international disaster we would be doing well. It looks like that low bar may be cleared soon. I guess his most atrocious act was the abandonment of his Kurdish allies. Otherwise it is largely the tarnishing of the US brand and failure of leadership during the pandemic crisis.

    We should be grateful. I am not so sure we would have got away so light with Bolton in position. He is plainly a lot more competent but he's a war hawk. Not sure where that would have led us.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    MaxPB said:

    WHO: Contact tracing is the key going forward.

    HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.


    This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.



    Arguably the app isn't a good means of contact tracing.
    I think it's a good way of getting people to get a test.
    Yes; see what you mean.
    Sort of on-topic, does anyone know if, when one has a blood test as part of normal medical treatment, the lab now routinely include Coronavirus antibody levels? I ask because I'm soon to have such a test as part of my prostate cancer follow-up.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,805
    HYUFD said:

    The allegations in the book are Trump wanted the Chinese to buy more US food, supported detention of the Uighur Muslims, called George Bush a 'stupid person' for invading Afghanistan, was mocked by Mike Pompeo and persuaded by Putin not to invade Venezuela and did not know we had nuclear weapons.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53086042

    Will that make the average Trump voter less likely to vote for him though? No. The allegations are more about reinforcing amongst the US elite why they despise Trump and he is unsuited for the office.

    For the average Trump voter in Ohio they might even agree with Trump.

    HYUFD worryingly that makes sense.

    Just like our discussion the other day re Conservatives and freedoms I want you to be wrong. You should be wrong. But there is more than a little niggle that you are actually right.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    Dura_Ace said:

    WHO: Contact tracing is the key going forward.

    HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.


    This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.



    Be comforted by the £1m paint job of Britola Gay.
    Before you start criticising Boris , what about the billions wasted on ludicrously large aircraft carriers that our planes can not land on.. How much was it 9 billion>?>?.. Lets not go there with the NHS Computer debacle either...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited June 2020

    HYUFD said:

    The allegations in the book are Trump wanted the Chinese to buy more US food, supported detention of the Uighur Muslims, called George Bush a 'stupid person' for invading Afghanistan, was mocked by Mike Pompeo and persuaded by Putin not to invade Venezuela and did not know we had nuclear weapons.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53086042

    Will that make the average Trump voter less likely to vote for him though? No. The allegations are more about reinforcing amongst the US elite why they despise Trump and he is unsuited for the office.

    For the average Trump voter in Ohio they might even agree with Trump.

    The problem Trump may have is that there are not enough "avergae" Trump voters. He needs a good chunk of independents, too - as well as a low Democrat turnout. From here, he is going to need a major Biden meltdown, as well as heroic voter suppression efforts by the GOP. It's reasonable to assume both are possible - the latter especially.

    Turnout in 2016 was 55.7%, higher than the 54.9% in 2012.

    Trump only won 47% of Independents even in 2016, 11% of Independents voted for a third party candidate and may do so again
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Dura_Ace said:

    WHO: Contact tracing is the key going forward.

    HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.


    This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.



    Be comforted by the £1m paint job of Britola Gay.
    Before you start criticising Boris , what about the billions wasted on ludicrously large aircraft carriers that our planes can not land on.. How much was it 9 billion>?>?.. Lets not go there with the NHS Computer debacle either...
    I criticise all three shit decisions, and plenty more. Whats wrong with doing that?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    DavidL said:

    Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.

    They actually have bigger problems, certainly in Scotland where the Universities are facing a complete shit storm.

    The Scottish government gives £1820 per student with a set number of places. This of course is absolutely unsustainable for anything other than the most basic of institutions so Universities have sought English students (£9250 a pop) and foreign non EU students (up to £24K) to cross subsidise. The Russell group members in particular have been very successful at this allowing the Universities to thrive with an ever smaller part of their cohort being made up of Scottish students.

    Boris has now capped the number of English grants that will be paid to Scottish Universities and the foreigners are not coming because of Covid. The Scottish Government is not able to increase the number of places it funds because it has no money. I am not sure whether the likes of Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive. It really depends on how long the foreign market takes to recover but the clock is ticking

    Recessions, economic cycles and unexpected difficulties are part of life.

    If universities haven't prepared for those then they haven't been run well.
    Then they haven't been run well. They have grown fat on an apparently ever increasing market for their services. English Universities, bloated by the fees they are able to charge are similar. No doubt there is a great deal of blubber to cut but we are at risk of losing bone and muscle too.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    Ratters said:

    The references to the last US election ('Hillary was ahead'...) sound an awful lot like those who said Corbyn was going to close the gap last year in the same way he did in 2017.

    Trump is much further behind, his opponent is far less divisive than his last one, and the left are motivated in a way they weren't last time. So I think the most likely outcome is a comfortable Biden victory.

    Bernie's boys threw a bit of a sulk when he didn't get the nomination and refrained from helping Hillary, expecting no doubt she would win anyway. They appear to have grown up a bit in the succeeding four years - behaving like 6 year olds rather than two.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.

    They actually have bigger problems, certainly in Scotland where the Universities are facing a complete shit storm.

    The Scottish government gives £1820 per student with a set number of places. This of course is absolutely unsustainable for anything other than the most basic of institutions so Universities have sought English students (£9250 a pop) and foreign non EU students (up to £24K) to cross subsidise. The Russell group members in particular have been very successful at this allowing the Universities to thrive with an ever smaller part of their cohort being made up of Scottish students.

    Boris has now capped the number of English grants that will be paid to Scottish Universities and the foreigners are not coming because of Covid. The Scottish Government is not able to increase the number of places it funds because it has no money. I am not sure whether the likes of Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive. It really depends on how long the foreign market takes to recover but the clock is ticking

    Recessions, economic cycles and unexpected difficulties are part of life.

    If universities haven't prepared for those then they haven't been run well.
    Then they haven't been run well. They have grown fat on an apparently ever increasing market for their services. English Universities, bloated by the fees they are able to charge are similar. No doubt there is a great deal of blubber to cut but we are at risk of losing bone and muscle too.
    Most English universities are just running their courses online, which means fewer costs while still getting the fees.

    Only Scotland does not have student fees
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    .Been watching this for a year or two. They’re finally building a full scale plant.

    World’s biggest liquid air battery starts construction in UK
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/18/worlds-biggest-liquid-air-battery-starts-construction-in-uk
    ... Construction is beginning on the world’s largest liquid air battery, which will store renewable electricity and reduce carbon emissions from fossil-fuel power plants.

    The project near Manchester, UK, will use spare green energy to compress (sic) air into a liquid and store it. When demand is higher, the liquid air is released back into a gas, powering a turbine that puts the green energy back into the grid.

    A big expansion of wind and solar energy is vital to tackle the climate emergency but they are not always available. Storage is therefore key and the new project will be the largest in the world outside of pumped hydro schemes, which require a mountain reservoir to store water.

    The new liquid air battery (sic), being developed by Highview Power, is due to be operational in 2022 and will be able to power up to 200,000 homes for five hours, and store power for many weeks. Chemical batteries are also needed for the transition to a zero-carbon world and are plummeting in price, but can only store relatively small amounts of electricity for short periods....

    That’s a very interesting development. One of the things that has concerned me about our current obsession with batteries is that the materials used to make them are (a) rare and (b) themselves pretty environmentally unfriendly. I have been struggling to see as a result how batteries are the longer term solution to energy needs.

    But if compressed air can be used in this way, that would change things.
    Lithium isn’t rare at all - just hard to recover economically.
    That, I think, is set to change in a year or two, as there’s a new technology for separating it out (which I’ll try to post about later).
    Battery makers are gradually getting rid of the need for cobalt.

    There’s a lot of other stuff going on (silicon/sulphur battery chemistries, for instance).

    We’re not there yet, but a fully sustainable battery economy isn’t all that far off.
    Energy density in batteries also tends to be much higher than other options, which is relevant if the land needed for the storage solution is expensive. Probably less of an issue for ideas of using old mine-shafts etc, which I guess are pretty cheap having few other uses and likely too highly contaminated for e.g. residential building land.

    (fun fact, different chemistry to grid storage etc, but an AA battery contains approximately enough energy to lift a 1kg weight to a height of 1km)
    surely a 1kg Mass not weight.
    If the gravity is lower so that the mass only weighs 200g, then the energy required would be less, so weight is correct unless you want to specify a gravitational field strength too.
    But kg is a unit of mass. The mass wouldn't change (it would still be 1kg not 200g) under a different gravitational force.
    Sorry, pedantry is an affliction.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    An interesting Guardian long read on the ups and downs of global tourism:

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/jun/18/end-of-tourism-coronavirus-pandemic-travel-industry

    Does it manage to have a go at the Govt at the same time>? I would be surprised if it was bile free...
    The article appears to be complaining simultaneously that there’s both too much tourism and not enough of it.
    Tourism is fecked for a year at least or ought to be....but people want holidays and will ignore the risks and Govts will let it happen because of financial imperatives.
    Pretty much no-one I've spoken to has any interest in foreign holidays this year, although a few need to travel over the summer for work and family reasons.
    .
    Wow that's not my experience at all. Every young person I've spoken to can't wait to get away. I'm not young but I'm in the same boat, or aircraft. In fact I've already booked a fortnight in SE Asia for late Fall.
    You're looking forward to sitting for 14 hours in a middle seat, wearing a mask and gloves, with limited food and no drink service - to be followed by a fortnight's quarantine when you get home, if your destination doesn't also decide to quarantine you on the way in, with no travel insurance for Covid risks?

    There may be a few twenty-somethings up for that, as something to tell the future grand-kids they did during the 2020 pandemic, but anyone elderly or with kids sure as hell doesn't want to go near a plane they don't have to be on.
    I don't think I will be taking a flight for more than an hour for some time to come. I will do my best to stay away from airports completely. Let's face it they were truly appalling places before this: unbelievably crap service, utterly absurd and pointless security requirements (never, ever caught a terrorist), designed to make a rat in a maze feel good as they pushed you by shops you just might be bored enough to shop in. And now an airborne disease! Fantastic.
    I agree that Airports and Flying is crap, but your comment on terrorism is inappropriate.

    The point of airport security is not to catch terrorists, but to stop them from attempting an attack. This is something which can only be assesed using counterfactuals and so is not really provable.

    In comparison to the early mid & 70s when any political fanatic could hijack a plane it is clear that security measures have reduced the incidence of hijacking considerably. In the USA in 2001 the internal flight security was very lax, and the hijackers' weapons on 11/9/2001 would probably have been detected in a European airport.

    The massively annoying limitation on liquids in hand baggage was more or less introduced overnight due to good intellegence about a planned attack using liquid explosive. This attack did not take place, whether it woud have been succesful had the liquid restiction not been imposed, is unknowable.
    I was not being entirely serious about that point, just listing the things that make airports a truly miserable experience to be avoided if there is any alternative. But it is the case that nearly all effective anti-terrorism is intelligence led and occurs away from airports.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    .Been watching this for a year or two. They’re finally building a full scale plant.

    World’s biggest liquid air battery starts construction in UK
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/18/worlds-biggest-liquid-air-battery-starts-construction-in-uk
    ... Construction is beginning on the world’s largest liquid air battery, which will store renewable electricity and reduce carbon emissions from fossil-fuel power plants.

    The project near Manchester, UK, will use spare green energy to compress (sic) air into a liquid and store it. When demand is higher, the liquid air is released back into a gas, powering a turbine that puts the green energy back into the grid.

    A big expansion of wind and solar energy is vital to tackle the climate emergency but they are not always available. Storage is therefore key and the new project will be the largest in the world outside of pumped hydro schemes, which require a mountain reservoir to store water.

    The new liquid air battery (sic), being developed by Highview Power, is due to be operational in 2022 and will be able to power up to 200,000 homes for five hours, and store power for many weeks. Chemical batteries are also needed for the transition to a zero-carbon world and are plummeting in price, but can only store relatively small amounts of electricity for short periods....

    Absolutely no indication in that article how efficient it is. Do you know how much energy is lost liquifying the air and then returning it to gas to drive a turbine? That surely is the key to this.
    Compressors are extremely efficient, usually in the 99% range.
    Do you mean that 99% of the energy used to compress the air is recovered when it is returned to gas? That would be absolutely incredible but I find it very hard to believe.
    No, 99% of the electricity is converted to potential energy as stored compressed air. Overall the process is probably well above 90% in terms of efficiency, nothing in there is an unknown. It's a series of 95%+ efficiency steps.

    The most undesirable effect will be noise pollution from the compression (low frequency noise) and decompression (high frequency noise, it is noticeable for some people, especially people under 40) of air.
    Dinorwig, the large pumped water storage power station in North Wales has an efficiency of 74-76%. If this compressed air system is better than that at scale then that's impressive.
    It will be, however, the issues are going to be with the material science as I said earlie. The rapid cooling and heating effects on the container is going to cause cracking which could result in explosive decompression. I suspect that is why such a simple sounding idea has taken so long to develop.
    It's cryogenic storage, not compressed air (which is why I included a couple of (sic)s in the article I quoted).
    The plant should be good for several decades.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=51&v=kDvlh_aG7iA
  • SurreySurrey Posts: 190
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.

    The last thing we need is for Cummings to start trying to meddle with Universities.

    He would turn them from rather pompous virtue-signalling fellow travellers to full fledged violent anarchists.
    I'd love to see a greater diversity in Universities, with more in the independent sector.

    Some of these people tipping £100-200m into Oxbridge institutes would do a better job by helping create smaller, more specialist universities imo. One of the things that can really underpin an area.

    University of Mansfield .... yum.
    Open University expansion, with online courses that can result in an actual degree qualification for a fraction of the price of residential, in-person courses.

    We need to use modern technology, to change the market for education for the better.
    Agreed the OU should be enormously expanded. Instead a while back the number of courses was cut, payments to tutors were lowered, and fees were trebled or quadrupled, all with little resistance. The University of London too used to encourage independent study as well as external tuition. If even a single reputable university were to open up exams in all subjects to private candidates the stimulus would be there for a growth of a healthy study culture (always assuming it didn't give degrees away like sweeties but then it wouldn't deserve to be reputable any more). That this doesn't happen shows how stuck in the mud universities are.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Off topic. Vera Lynn RIP
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    Dura_Ace said:

    WHO: Contact tracing is the key going forward.

    HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.


    This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.



    Be comforted by the £1m paint job of Britola Gay.
    Before you start criticising Boris , what about the billions wasted on ludicrously large aircraft carriers that our planes can not land on.. How much was it 9 billion>?>?.. Lets not go there with the NHS Computer debacle either...
    I criticise all three shit decisions, and plenty more. Whats wrong with doing that?
    Dura is on Boris's case.. just pointing out all Govts make shit decisions. none worse than the Labour Party allowing the loon Brown to become PM. He fecked the economy for generations.

    You can blame the Govt of the day for how it has handled elements of the COVID 19 crisis, but the cost is largely unavoidable/
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677



    Before you start criticising Boris , what about the billions wasted on ludicrously large aircraft carriers that our planes can not land on.. How much was it 9 billion>?>?.. Lets not go there with the NHS Computer debacle either...

    I have stated, more than once on here, that the QEC carriers are a vanity purchase that has unbalanced the RN and don't provide the full spectrum of capabilities required for expeditionary warfare.

    Aircraft can and do land on them though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    HYUFD said:

    The allegations in the book are Trump wanted the Chinese to buy more US food, supported detention of the Uighur Muslims, called George Bush a 'stupid person' for invading Afghanistan, was mocked by Mike Pompeo and persuaded by Putin not to invade Venezuela and did not know we had nuclear weapons...

    If leaders don't know we have nuclear weapons, how does deterrence work .... ? :smile:
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    And I know people who are booking to go to Portugal. I would have no issue about doing so. Wear a mask, use sanitiser and get out there and live your life.

    Hear, hear. Those who have booked already must, I guess, be gambling on the changing of the FCO advice which currently states "essential travel only". Airlines will allow changes, of course, but I can`t be bothered with that hassle. We`re waiting for guidance to change before booking anything. I reckon many families are doing similarly - then there will be a rush for flights.
    Yes absolutely.

    Incidentally, and to echo what you have written, for those bold enough to book further afield with Qatar Airways, they have a rather impressive deal at the moment. You can book any flight directly with them and subsequently make up to 3 changes free of charge, or even cancel without penalty. And their long haul prices are currently pretty sensational. Sub £500 to most of SE Asia if you pick good dates.

    The other issue is travel insurance, which is somewhat more thorny. I've often travelled to places against FCO advice and still been covered but this situation is a little more opaque.

    N.B. I don't work for Qatar Airways or have any affiliation to them and I don't particularly admire the country. They're just a damned fine airline.
    Quarantine when you get there??
    Makes sense given our infection rates. Ask New Zealand.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    WHO: Contact tracing is the key going forward.

    HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.


    This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.



    Arguably the app isn't a good means of contact tracing.
    A phone app as the basis of 'track & trace' here in the UK always sounded like a unicorn. Technology is great but sometimes manual is the way to go. Those who understand the interaction between technology and people - as opposed to technophiles and technophobes - know this. I do hope that all the faffing around with an app did not add yet further delay to something - track & trace - which is sorely needed and which was scandalously neglected before at long last it wasn't.
  • SurreySurrey Posts: 190
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.

    They actually have bigger problems, certainly in Scotland where the Universities are facing a complete shit storm.

    The Scottish government gives £1820 per student with a set number of places. This of course is absolutely unsustainable for anything other than the most basic of institutions so Universities have sought English students (£9250 a pop) and foreign non EU students (up to £24K) to cross subsidise. The Russell group members in particular have been very successful at this allowing the Universities to thrive with an ever smaller part of their cohort being made up of Scottish students.

    Boris has now capped the number of English grants that will be paid to Scottish Universities and the foreigners are not coming because of Covid. The Scottish Government is not able to increase the number of places it funds because it has no money. I am not sure whether the likes of Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive. It really depends on how long the foreign market takes to recover but the clock is ticking

    Recessions, economic cycles and unexpected difficulties are part of life.

    If universities haven't prepared for those then they haven't been run well.
    Then they haven't been run well. They have grown fat on an apparently ever increasing market for their services. English Universities, bloated by the fees they are able to charge are similar. No doubt there is a great deal of blubber to cut but we are at risk of losing bone and muscle too.
    Most English universities are just running their courses online, which means fewer costs while still getting the fees.

    Only Scotland does not have student fees
    Disregarding who pays, is there much difference between England and Scotland for tuition fee income received per student?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    2016 is distorting the US market. Biden would be 1-2 if it was totally rational.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354

    Surrey said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Bolton is one of the few men alive capable of making one sympathetic to Trump. Trump seems to have Bolton spot on with “ A disgruntled boring fool who only wanted to go to war.“

    Well maybe. I suspect that the book by Trump's niece Mary Trump may be even more impactful. It's published on July 28th. I think it may finish off Trump's chances.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/books/2020/06/15/donald-trump-niece-mary-trump-tells-all-family-new-book/3191031001/
    Some of these attacks are misjudged. Trump draws energy from criticism and outsider status. It is worth noting that Clinton was similarly ahead in the polls at this stage. Her campaign succeeded only in pushing Trumps support underground. This stuff risks doing the same thing.

    To dismantle Trump, requires a different approach. So long as he owns the MAGA theme, he will be hard to shift.
    The problem of normalcy bias ...
    Trump's branding for those who aren't in his core is all over the place. It's not so much MAGA as "KAG" (how will that fare even if there's not a second wave?) and the crazed imperial-pharaonic "Transition to Greatness". The price of laying Trump as the Republican nominee "as a result of the 2020 RNC" is 1.07. He may well be forced out one way or another before the convention.
    Doubt it v much. The GOP are in thrall to this maniac.

    It is incredible and terrifying to watch a democracy eat itself alive.
    I have wondered for a long while how the GOP comes to be in such thrall to the guy and can only conclude that the Party knew it had no hope of beating the Democrats with any other leader. Trump was the lesser of two evils, or so they supposed.

    They may have got this wrong. He may well take them into a defeat and possible long-term decline from which it will be difficult to recover.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    Surrey said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.

    The last thing we need is for Cummings to start trying to meddle with Universities.

    He would turn them from rather pompous virtue-signalling fellow travellers to full fledged violent anarchists.
    I'd love to see a greater diversity in Universities, with more in the independent sector.

    Some of these people tipping £100-200m into Oxbridge institutes would do a better job by helping create smaller, more specialist universities imo. One of the things that can really underpin an area.

    University of Mansfield .... yum.
    Open University expansion, with online courses that can result in an actual degree qualification for a fraction of the price of residential, in-person courses.

    We need to use modern technology, to change the market for education for the better.
    Agreed the OU should be enormously expanded. Instead a while back the number of courses was cut, payments to tutors were lowered, and fees were trebled or quadrupled, all with little resistance. The University of London too used to encourage independent study as well as external tuition. If even a single reputable university were to open up exams in all subjects to private candidates the stimulus would be there for a growth of a healthy study culture (always assuming it didn't give degrees away like sweeties but then it wouldn't deserve to be reputable any more). That this doesn't happen shows how stuck in the mud universities are.
    Or just smart enough to realise how much they have invested in the status quo.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,805
    Question for those in the know:

    I thought Ohio was the bell weather state? If Biden is ahead so much everywhere else why is this on a knife edge?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    Pulpstar said:

    2016 is distorting the US market. Biden would be 1-2 if it was totally rational.

    Agreed.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    edited June 2020

    Dura_Ace said:

    WHO: Contact tracing is the key going forward.

    HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.


    This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.



    Be comforted by the £1m paint job of Britola Gay.
    Before you start criticising Boris , what about the billions wasted on ludicrously large aircraft carriers that our planes can not land on.. How much was it 9 billion>?>?.. Lets not go there with the NHS Computer debacle either...
    I criticise all three shit decisions, and plenty more. Whats wrong with doing that?
    Dura is on Boris's case.. just pointing out all Govts make shit decisions. none worse than the Labour Party allowing the loon Brown to become PM. He fecked the economy for generations.

    You can blame the Govt of the day for how it has handled elements of the COVID 19 crisis, but the cost is largely unavoidable/
    One of the ways to make governments better is when its supporters join in the criticism when it is deserved. Do you really believe painting our planes will help our trade policy?

    Its just bonkers. Take the Huawei deal here - do you think one of the factors we are considering is how much the Chinese diplomats plane resembles their flag?

    Or do we just think foreign officials are really stupid and will see a flag and cave in to our demands!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    edited June 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    2016 is distorting the US market. Biden would be 1-2 if it was totally rational.

    True, but a lot of people got burned in 2016. We saw the same in 2019 because of the 2017 shock. 2019 turned out to be one of my most profitable elections because everyone kept pricing in a 2017 style recovery for Labour while I stuck to the 60-80 seat majority theory pretty much all the way through. More than made up for 2017.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816

    Off topic. Vera Lynn RIP

    The BBC suddenly gone unWoke by describing her as the "forces sweetheart" . Probably have to issue a grovelling apology in a weeks time

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Dura_Ace said:

    WHO: Contact tracing is the key going forward.

    HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.


    This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.



    Be comforted by the £1m paint job of Britola Gay.
    Britola Gay! Lol! Not sure it is absolute value for money, but hey it's Boris. Looking forward to Boris and Carrie's forthcoming nuptials. Will it be a state, televised affair and are plans afoot? A tonic for the troops, and a national thank you for Boris guiding us out of Covid-19 so expertly!

    Back on topic, in the event of industrial scale voter suppression by GOP operatives state polling has limited function.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Surrey said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Bolton is one of the few men alive capable of making one sympathetic to Trump. Trump seems to have Bolton spot on with “ A disgruntled boring fool who only wanted to go to war.“

    Well maybe. I suspect that the book by Trump's niece Mary Trump may be even more impactful. It's published on July 28th. I think it may finish off Trump's chances.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/books/2020/06/15/donald-trump-niece-mary-trump-tells-all-family-new-book/3191031001/
    Some of these attacks are misjudged. Trump draws energy from criticism and outsider status. It is worth noting that Clinton was similarly ahead in the polls at this stage. Her campaign succeeded only in pushing Trumps support underground. This stuff risks doing the same thing.

    To dismantle Trump, requires a different approach. So long as he owns the MAGA theme, he will be hard to shift.
    The problem of normalcy bias ...
    Trump's branding for those who aren't in his core is all over the place. It's not so much MAGA as "KAG" (how will that fare even if there's not a second wave?) and the crazed imperial-pharaonic "Transition to Greatness". The price of laying Trump as the Republican nominee "as a result of the 2020 RNC" is 1.07. He may well be forced out one way or another before the convention.
    Doubt it v much. The GOP are in thrall to this maniac.

    It is incredible and terrifying to watch a democracy eat itself alive.
    I have wondered for a long while how the GOP comes to be in such thrall to the guy and can only conclude that the Party knew it had no hope of beating the Democrats with any other leader. Trump was the lesser of two evils, or so they supposed.

    They may have got this wrong. He may well take them into a defeat and possible long-term decline from which it will be difficult to recover.
    Disagree, the GOP got lumbered with Trump because of the primary system and the primary voters voted for Trump because they liked him (and also because there wasn't a single strong opponent). Hardly anybody who supported Trump did it out of an electability calculation.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Off topic. Vera Lynn RIP

    Impressive innings:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1273536609653309441?s=20
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Jonathan said:

    Bolton is one of the few men alive capable of making one sympathetic to Trump. Trump seems to have Bolton spot on with “ A disgruntled boring fool who only wanted to go to war.“

    Trump also resisted hiring Bolton for a long time because he didn't trust men with moustaches, which actually seems quite astute. Bolton is a worse person than Trump, or at least a more dangerous one, but if he wants to piss on Trump from a great heigh I won't stand in his way.
    If you stand in his way, you will get wet.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:



    I don't think I will be taking a flight for more than an hour for some time to come. I will do my best to stay away from airports completely. Let's face it they were truly appalling places before this: unbelievably crap service, utterly absurd and pointless security requirements (never, ever caught a terrorist), designed to make a rat in a maze feel good as they pushed you by shops you just might be bored enough to shop in. And now an airborne disease! Fantastic.

    I agree that Airports and Flying is crap, but your comment on terrorism is inappropriate.

    The point of airport security is not to catch terrorists, but to stop them from attempting an attack. This is something which can only be assesed using counterfactuals and so is not really provable.

    In comparison to the early mid & 70s when any political fanatic could hijack a plane it is clear that security measures have reduced the incidence of hijacking considerably. In the USA in 2001 the internal flight security was very lax, and the hijackers' weapons on 11/9/2001 would probably have been detected in a European airport.

    The massively annoying limitation on liquids in hand baggage was more or less introduced overnight due to good intellegence about a planned attack using liquid explosive. This attack did not take place, whether it woud have been succesful had the liquid restiction not been imposed, is unknowable.
    I agree (unenthusiastically) with Eristdoof's point, but in other respects DavidL's summary of the airport experience is a wonderful SeanT-worthy diatribe.

    I have a lot of friends in other countries, so probably will be travelling when allowed to. My airport strategy is to take a large book, find a seat somewhere, set a phone alarm for when I need to board and then ignore everything, especially the shops which bring seedy tax-dodging together with luxury consumerism in a marriage from hell. The possibility of getting ill is still a snag, though.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Universities need to act now on free speech on the campus, or the baleful eye of Cummings and the need for 'sector reorganization' will fall on them.

    They actually have bigger problems, certainly in Scotland where the Universities are facing a complete shit storm.

    The Scottish government gives £1820 per student with a set number of places. This of course is absolutely unsustainable for anything other than the most basic of institutions so Universities have sought English students (£9250 a pop) and foreign non EU students (up to £24K) to cross subsidise. The Russell group members in particular have been very successful at this allowing the Universities to thrive with an ever smaller part of their cohort being made up of Scottish students.

    Boris has now capped the number of English grants that will be paid to Scottish Universities and the foreigners are not coming because of Covid. The Scottish Government is not able to increase the number of places it funds because it has no money. I am not sure whether the likes of Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow will survive. It really depends on how long the foreign market takes to recover but the clock is ticking

    Recessions, economic cycles and unexpected difficulties are part of life.

    If universities haven't prepared for those then they haven't been run well.
    Then they haven't been run well. They have grown fat on an apparently ever increasing market for their services. English Universities, bloated by the fees they are able to charge are similar. No doubt there is a great deal of blubber to cut but we are at risk of losing bone and muscle too.
    Most English universities are just running their courses online, which means fewer costs while still getting the fees.

    Only Scotland does not have student fees
    I know and if the Scottish government wants it's Universities to survive that is going to have to change. But foreign students are not going to pay £24k a year for an online course so any cost savings are illusionary.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298

    Dura_Ace said:

    WHO: Contact tracing is the key going forward.

    HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.


    This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.



    Be comforted by the £1m paint job of Britola Gay.
    Before you start criticising Boris , what about the billions wasted on ludicrously large aircraft carriers that our planes can not land on.. How much was it 9 billion>?>?.. Lets not go there with the NHS Computer debacle either...
    I criticise all three shit decisions, and plenty more. Whats wrong with doing that?
    Dura is on Boris's case.. just pointing out all Govts make shit decisions. none worse than the Labour Party allowing the loon Brown to become PM. He fecked the economy for generations.

    You can blame the Govt of the day for how it has handled elements of the COVID 19 crisis, but the cost is largely unavoidable/
    Rather than reclassifying defence as aid, we should be going the other way.
    The spending we make on pandemic preparedness, improving the health systems of developing countries to detect infectious diseases do more for actually defending the UK public than aircraft carriers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    Off topic. Vera Lynn RIP

    Impressive innings:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1273536609653309441?s=20
    RIP Dame Vera, a great icon
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    FF43 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Bolton is one of the few men alive capable of making one sympathetic to Trump. Trump seems to have Bolton spot on with “ A disgruntled boring fool who only wanted to go to war.“

    Trump also resisted hiring Bolton for a long time because he didn't trust men with moustaches, which actually seems quite astute. Bolton is a worse person than Trump, or at least a more dangerous one, but if he wants to piss on Trump from a great heigh I won't stand in his way.
    If you stand in his way, you will get wet.
    FF43 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Bolton is one of the few men alive capable of making one sympathetic to Trump. Trump seems to have Bolton spot on with “ A disgruntled boring fool who only wanted to go to war.“

    Trump also resisted hiring Bolton for a long time because he didn't trust men with moustaches, which actually seems quite astute. Bolton is a worse person than Trump, or at least a more dangerous one, but if he wants to piss on Trump from a great heigh I won't stand in his way.
    If you stand in his way, you will get wet.
    Yes, and unlike Trump (allegedly) I'm not into that kind of thing.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    An interesting Guardian long read on the ups and downs of global tourism:

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/jun/18/end-of-tourism-coronavirus-pandemic-travel-industry

    Does it manage to have a go at the Govt at the same time>? I would be surprised if it was bile free...
    The article appears to be complaining simultaneously that there’s both too much tourism and not enough of it.
    Tourism is fecked for a year at least or ought to be....but people want holidays and will ignore the risks and Govts will let it happen because of financial imperatives.
    Pretty much no-one I've spoken to has any interest in foreign holidays this year, although a few need to travel over the summer for work and family reasons.
    .
    Wow that's not my experience at all. Every young person I've spoken to can't wait to get away. I'm not young but I'm in the same boat, or aircraft. In fact I've already booked a fortnight in SE Asia for late Fall.
    Where are you going? Most of it's still shut - and until FCO advise against "all but essential travel" changes most travel insurance won't cover you.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited June 2020
    kjh said:

    Question for those in the know:

    I thought Ohio was the bell weather state? If Biden is ahead so much everywhere else why is this on a knife edge?

    Ohio hasn't been the tipping point state for a while; It's still a swing state but it's one of the more GOP-leaning ones, especially with Trump being strong with low-education white people. That said, state polling is hard and there hasn't been much of it yet, so I wouldn't pay too much attention to those numbers.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    The allegations in the book are Trump wanted the Chinese to buy more US food, supported detention of the Uighur Muslims, called George Bush a 'stupid person' for invading Afghanistan, was mocked by Mike Pompeo and persuaded by Putin not to invade Venezuela and did not know we had nuclear weapons.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53086042

    Will that make the average Trump voter less likely to vote for him though? No. The allegations are more about reinforcing amongst the US elite why they despise Trump and he is unsuited for the office.

    For the average Trump voter in Ohio they might even agree with Trump.

    HYUFD worryingly that makes sense.

    Just like our discussion the other day re Conservatives and freedoms I want you to be wrong. You should be wrong. But there is more than a little niggle that you are actually right.
    Yes, his core supporters will dismiss it all as fake news. What it does do is limit the scope for him pushing out beyond them to anyone who might seriously consider casting their vote for another.

    His core support appears stuck around 40%. It's not enough. He will lose - heavily if the Democrats get their act together.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Off topic. Vera Lynn RIP

    Impressive innings:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1273536609653309441?s=20
    I was convinced some goal hanger had her in the dead pool but I checked my records and no...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    edited June 2020
    rkrkrk said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    WHO: Contact tracing is the key going forward.

    HMG: Our app is not a priority right now. Maybe Winter would be a good time.

    This has become beyond a shambles. Just plain nonsensical and indeed dangerous.


    Be comforted by the £1m paint job of Britola Gay.
    Before you start criticising Boris , what about the billions wasted on ludicrously large aircraft carriers that our planes can not land on.. How much was it 9 billion>?>?.. Lets not go there with the NHS Computer debacle either...
    I criticise all three shit decisions, and plenty more. Whats wrong with doing that?
    Dura is on Boris's case.. just pointing out all Govts make shit decisions. none worse than the Labour Party allowing the loon Brown to become PM. He fecked the economy for generations.

    You can blame the Govt of the day for how it has handled elements of the COVID 19 crisis, but the cost is largely unavoidable/
    Rather than reclassifying defence as aid, we should be going the other way.
    The spending we make on pandemic preparedness, improving the health systems of developing countries to detect infectious diseases do more for actually defending the UK public than aircraft carriers.
    Or Trident. As I pointed out above, the most powerful man in the world isn't even aware we have it.

    Some deterrent...



    ... If we were to very quietly cancel the program, would anyone notice ?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,755

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    .Been watching this for a year or two. They’re finally building a full scale plant.

    World’s biggest liquid air battery starts construction in UK
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/18/worlds-biggest-liquid-air-battery-starts-construction-in-uk
    ... Construction is beginning on the world’s largest liquid air battery, which will store renewable electricity and reduce carbon emissions from fossil-fuel power plants.

    The project near Manchester, UK, will use spare green energy to compress (sic) air into a liquid and store it. When demand is higher, the liquid air is released back into a gas, powering a turbine that puts the green energy back into the grid.

    A big expansion of wind and solar energy is vital to tackle the climate emergency but they are not always available. Storage is therefore key and the new project will be the largest in the world outside of pumped hydro schemes, which require a mountain reservoir to store water.

    The new liquid air battery (sic), being developed by Highview Power, is due to be operational in 2022 and will be able to power up to 200,000 homes for five hours, and store power for many weeks. Chemical batteries are also needed for the transition to a zero-carbon world and are plummeting in price, but can only store relatively small amounts of electricity for short periods....

    That’s a very interesting development. One of the things that has concerned me about our current obsession with batteries is that the materials used to make them are (a) rare and (b) themselves pretty environmentally unfriendly. I have been struggling to see as a result how batteries are the longer term solution to energy needs.

    But if compressed air can be used in this way, that would change things.
    Lithium isn’t rare at all - just hard to recover economically.
    That, I think, is set to change in a year or two, as there’s a new technology for separating it out (which I’ll try to post about later).
    Battery makers are gradually getting rid of the need for cobalt.

    There’s a lot of other stuff going on (silicon/sulphur battery chemistries, for instance).

    We’re not there yet, but a fully sustainable battery economy isn’t all that far off.
    Energy density in batteries also tends to be much higher than other options, which is relevant if the land needed for the storage solution is expensive. Probably less of an issue for ideas of using old mine-shafts etc, which I guess are pretty cheap having few other uses and likely too highly contaminated for e.g. residential building land.

    (fun fact, different chemistry to grid storage etc, but an AA battery contains approximately enough energy to lift a 1kg weight to a height of 1km)
    surely a 1kg Mass not weight.
    I of course meant a physical 'weight' (big metal thing shaped like a truncated pyramid) with a mass of 1kg :wink:
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The allegations in the book are Trump wanted the Chinese to buy more US food, supported detention of the Uighur Muslims, called George Bush a 'stupid person' for invading Afghanistan, was mocked by Mike Pompeo and persuaded by Putin not to invade Venezuela and did not know we had nuclear weapons.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53086042

    Will that make the average Trump voter less likely to vote for him though? No. The allegations are more about reinforcing amongst the US elite why they despise Trump and he is unsuited for the office.

    For the average Trump voter in Ohio they might even agree with Trump.

    The problem Trump may have is that there are not enough "avergae" Trump voters. He needs a good chunk of independents, too - as well as a low Democrat turnout. From here, he is going to need a major Biden meltdown, as well as heroic voter suppression efforts by the GOP. It's reasonable to assume both are possible - the latter especially.

    Turnout in 2016 was 55.7%, higher than the 54.9% in 2012.

    Trump only won 47% of Independents even in 2016, 11% of Independents voted for a third party candidate and may do so again

    So Trump won more independents than Clinton. They were a key part of his electoral coalition.

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura is on Boris's case.. just pointing out all Govts make shit decisions. /

    Do you classify Britola Gay as a 'shit' decision.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354

    Surrey said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Bolton is one of the few men alive capable of making one sympathetic to Trump. Trump seems to have Bolton spot on with “ A disgruntled boring fool who only wanted to go to war.“

    Well maybe. I suspect that the book by Trump's niece Mary Trump may be even more impactful. It's published on July 28th. I think it may finish off Trump's chances.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/books/2020/06/15/donald-trump-niece-mary-trump-tells-all-family-new-book/3191031001/
    Some of these attacks are misjudged. Trump draws energy from criticism and outsider status. It is worth noting that Clinton was similarly ahead in the polls at this stage. Her campaign succeeded only in pushing Trumps support underground. This stuff risks doing the same thing.

    To dismantle Trump, requires a different approach. So long as he owns the MAGA theme, he will be hard to shift.
    The problem of normalcy bias ...
    Trump's branding for those who aren't in his core is all over the place. It's not so much MAGA as "KAG" (how will that fare even if there's not a second wave?) and the crazed imperial-pharaonic "Transition to Greatness". The price of laying Trump as the Republican nominee "as a result of the 2020 RNC" is 1.07. He may well be forced out one way or another before the convention.
    Doubt it v much. The GOP are in thrall to this maniac.

    It is incredible and terrifying to watch a democracy eat itself alive.
    I have wondered for a long while how the GOP comes to be in such thrall to the guy and can only conclude that the Party knew it had no hope of beating the Democrats with any other leader. Trump was the lesser of two evils, or so they supposed.

    They may have got this wrong. He may well take them into a defeat and possible long-term decline from which it will be difficult to recover.
    Disagree, the GOP got lumbered with Trump because of the primary system and the primary voters voted for Trump because they liked him (and also because there wasn't a single strong opponent). Hardly anybody who supported Trump did it out of an electability calculation.
    The two views are not incompatible. The GOP establish might have been able to stop his run but when they saw how many clots were buying snake oil from him maybe they decided not to bother.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Dura_Ace said:

    Off topic. Vera Lynn RIP

    Impressive innings:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1273536609653309441?s=20
    I was convinced some goal hanger had her in the dead pool but I checked my records and no...
    Out of interest, do we have any accurate calls?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    .Been watching this for a year or two. They’re finally building a full scale plant.

    World’s biggest liquid air battery starts construction in UK
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/18/worlds-biggest-liquid-air-battery-starts-construction-in-uk
    ... Construction is beginning on the world’s largest liquid air battery, which will store renewable electricity and reduce carbon emissions from fossil-fuel power plants.

    The project near Manchester, UK, will use spare green energy to compress (sic) air into a liquid and store it. When demand is higher, the liquid air is released back into a gas, powering a turbine that puts the green energy back into the grid.

    A big expansion of wind and solar energy is vital to tackle the climate emergency but they are not always available. Storage is therefore key and the new project will be the largest in the world outside of pumped hydro schemes, which require a mountain reservoir to store water.

    The new liquid air battery (sic), being developed by Highview Power, is due to be operational in 2022 and will be able to power up to 200,000 homes for five hours, and store power for many weeks. Chemical batteries are also needed for the transition to a zero-carbon world and are plummeting in price, but can only store relatively small amounts of electricity for short periods....

    That’s a very interesting development. One of the things that has concerned me about our current obsession with batteries is that the materials used to make them are (a) rare and (b) themselves pretty environmentally unfriendly. I have been struggling to see as a result how batteries are the longer term solution to energy needs.

    But if compressed air can be used in this way, that would change things.
    Lithium isn’t rare at all - just hard to recover economically.
    That, I think, is set to change in a year or two, as there’s a new technology for separating it out (which I’ll try to post about later).
    Battery makers are gradually getting rid of the need for cobalt.

    There’s a lot of other stuff going on (silicon/sulphur battery chemistries, for instance).

    We’re not there yet, but a fully sustainable battery economy isn’t all that far off.
    Energy density in batteries also tends to be much higher than other options, which is relevant if the land needed for the storage solution is expensive. Probably less of an issue for ideas of using old mine-shafts etc, which I guess are pretty cheap having few other uses and likely too highly contaminated for e.g. residential building land.

    (fun fact, different chemistry to grid storage etc, but an AA battery contains approximately enough energy to lift a 1kg weight to a height of 1km)
    surely a 1kg Mass not weight.
    If the gravity is lower so that the mass only weighs 200g, then the energy required would be less, so weight is correct unless you want to specify a gravitational field strength too.
    But kg is a unit of mass. The mass wouldn't change (it would still be 1kg not 200g) under a different gravitational force.
    Sorry, pedantry is an affliction.
    That was the point I was trying to make. The AA battery could lift a 1kg mass by 1 km, not a 1kg "weight". If you want to be scientifically accurate you could apply a force of 9.81 Newtons to a mass of 1 kg to lift it up by 1km, (on earth) with the energy contained in an AA.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    HYUFD said:
    Is this a real thing or has The Spectator just invented it for Priti, miffed that she keeps getting it in the neck?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited June 2020

    kjh said:

    Question for those in the know:

    I thought Ohio was the bell weather state? If Biden is ahead so much everywhere else why is this on a knife edge?

    Ohio hasn't been the tipping point state for a while; It's still a swing state but it's one of the more GOP-leaning ones, especially with Trump being strong with low-education white people. That said, state polling is hard and there hasn't been much of it yet, so I wouldn't pay too much attention to those numbers.
    I backed Dems to win Ohio yesterday. I`ve built up a very large position against Trump already and am looking for opportunities to back Dems in certain individual states.

    I`ve already covered Wisconsin, Florida, N Carolina. Iowa, Arizona and New Hampshire (at longer odds than is currently the case) - and I added Ohio to this tally.

    Ohio has a high population of black people. Polls in Ohio are close and there, no doubt, will be some shy Trumpers, but on balance I thought that there was a bit of value in the 2.18 that I took yesterday. I took all of it I`m afraid.

    My only Rep bet is for them to win Pennsylvania - a small stake at 2.5.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    2016 is distorting the US market. Biden would be 1-2 if it was totally rational.

    I have re-entered the market.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    kjh said:

    Question for those in the know:

    I thought Ohio was the bell weather state? If Biden is ahead so much everywhere else why is this on a knife edge?

    Ohio voted for Nixon in 1960 so has not always been the bellwether but yes Pennsylvania is now the key bellwether state, Ohio leans GOP
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    HYUFD said:
    Wrong sort of BAME for the woke leftist mob.

    Same with Rishi Sunak, Munira Mirza, Kemi Badenoch, Shaun Bailey, Alok Sharma, Bim Afolami, Kwasi Kwarteng, Sajid Javid and many more.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    eristdoof said:


    In comparison to the early mid & 70s when any political fanatic could hijack a plane it is clear that security measures have reduced the incidence of hijacking considerably. In the USA in 2001 the internal flight security was very lax, and the hijackers' weapons on 11/9/2001 would probably have been detected in a European airport.

    Is this *clear*?

    Arguably 9/11 ruined hijacking for everybody, because until then the passengers' incentive was to cooperate in the expectation of being taken on a detour somewhere then flown home, then suddenly a successfully hijacked plane was a death sentence, and the dominant strategy was to resist. The tactic didn't even last through the day of 9/11, it was over as soon as the passengers on United 93 realized what was happening.

    I don't think it's plausible that airline security reliably prevented anyone getting any kind of weapon on board; Even if you can't get a sharp implement through (which seems implausible) it must at least be possible to construct a realistic-looking fake bomb.

    Fortifying the cockpit doors might have helped, although it may equally have done for the people on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    HYUFD said:

    The allegations in the book are Trump wanted the Chinese to buy more US food, supported detention of the Uighur Muslims, called George Bush a 'stupid person' for invading Afghanistan, was mocked by Mike Pompeo and persuaded by Putin not to invade Venezuela and did not know we had nuclear weapons.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53086042

    Will that make the average Trump voter less likely to vote for him though? No. The allegations are more about reinforcing amongst the US elite why they despise Trump and he is unsuited for the office.

    For the average Trump voter in Ohio they might even agree with Trump.

    Hardcore Trumpers, yes, but it will hardly cause those on the fence to be more likely to vote for him. And I think what could be very damaging, as it spreads, is the notion of him creeping around foreign despots, seeking to impress and ingratiate, the wannabe Strongman to their real thing, as if the position of POTUS was some sort of third prize in the raffle and he deserved much more. This is, for want of a better word, sad. It's so so sad for Americans and America.

    From the Applebaum article. The King James version -

    Trump’s true instinct, always, has been to side with foreign dictators, including Chinese President Xi Jinping. One former administration official who has seen Trump interact with Xi as well as with Russian President Vladimir Putin told me that it was like watching a lesser celebrity encounter a more famous one. Trump did not speak to them as the representative of the American people; he simply wanted their aura—of absolute power, of cruelty, of fame—to rub off on him and enhance his own image.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wrong sort of BAME for the woke leftist mob.

    Same with Rishi Sunak, Munira Mirza, Kemi Badenoch, Shaun Bailey, Alok Sharma, Bim Afolami, Kwasi Kwarteng, Sajid Javid and many more.
    Splitters
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    Even in a cabinet as lightweight as this one, Raab stands out as a first class plonker
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,755

    eristdoof said:


    In comparison to the early mid & 70s when any political fanatic could hijack a plane it is clear that security measures have reduced the incidence of hijacking considerably. In the USA in 2001 the internal flight security was very lax, and the hijackers' weapons on 11/9/2001 would probably have been detected in a European airport.

    Is this *clear*?

    Arguably 9/11 ruined hijacking for everybody, because until then the passengers' incentive was to cooperate in the expectation of being taken on a detour somewhere then flown home, then suddenly a successfully hijacked plane was a death sentence, and the dominant strategy was to resist. The tactic didn't even last through the day of 9/11, it was over as soon as the passengers on United 93 realized what was happening.

    I don't think it's plausible that airline security reliably prevented anyone getting any kind of weapon on board; Even if you can't get a sharp implement through (which seems implausible) it must at least be possible to construct a realistic-looking fake bomb.

    Fortifying the cockpit doors might have helped, although it may equally have done for the people on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.
    And Germanwings Flight 9525
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    Scott_xP said:

    Even in a cabinet as lightweight as this one, Raab stands out as a first class plonker

    Better than the third rate plonkers, then ?
This discussion has been closed.