If, at the end of the crisis, EU countries have done significantly better at having ventilators available, then we can reasonably consider it was a mistake not to join in the joint procurement efforts. On the other hand, if they haven't, then it will be clear there was no mistake.
The die has been cast. We can work out who was right and who was wrong in about eight weeks.
Yup - atm just a whole load of unnecessary hot air! Conseguire mi abrigo!
The Cabinet is going to be a political version of the Diamond Princess.
We can watch the rats of infection, severe illness and so on, and extrapolate to the larger population
Hopefully the rats of infection will tail off.
I am sure it is an issue gnawing at their thoughts. They will need to hole up for a while.
I hope that's a sign you're feeling better, Foxy!
Just about to start a remote meeting. Could be a total disaster as I've never used the tech for group chat before.
Yes, bright enough to potter in the garden. It is a bit up and down though.
IF I had this disease back in January, one of the distinct symptoms is how it fluctuates. You feel terrible, you feel better, you feel terrible again. V weird.
My wife told me last night that when she caught what I had, she had a coughing fit so bad she nearly fainted on the Tube (she'd never told me this before). In retrospect it does seem like we might have had it, maybe the antibody tests will tell me, when they are released.
Good luck to you and your wife.
Severaal people have posted wondering if their flu in January/December/November was Covid-19.
I have to say this is very, very unlikely that you had Covid-19. My evidence is that the virus is clearly very contageous: even the PM has caught it. But in February there were thousands of tests being carried out and only 100 or so came back positive. The negatives would have included a lot of random testing, and people presenting with flu symptoms wanting to know if it was Flu or Covid.
On top of that in over half of all the early cases there was an obviuos trace back to China. Then there was an obvoius trace back to Italy.
All of these point against the idea that Coronavirus was spreading widely in the UK undetected before mid-February, and the picture is similar in all European countries, just with a different take off date.
Why "even the PM"? Surely, given the number of people he meets, he's one of the most likely people to get it in the country.
I doubt if Boris spends his rush hours on the Tube.
Churchill did though. I know, 'cause I watched that movie.
Boris always got about London on his bike before becoming PM. It is one of the good things about him. I notice that bike shops have exempted from the close down order which is great for me because I've just had a puncture which my bike shop has fixed this afternoon.
My daily bike ride is keeping me sane. And there is a bike shop up the hill in case of puncture.
You guys get punctures fixed at a bike shop. I thought I was the pits at diy but...
- Rigid enforcement of EU procurement rules result in them ending up with Chinese produced ventilators, which turn out to be not fit for purpose - The Wallonian government delaying signing of the contract so they can debate whether this is really in the best interests of Wallonia
I don't think this is subject to national parliament approval (unlike some trade deals), so I don't think the latter is possible.
Probably true, but I didn't really ever suspect otherwise. It's much more likely that the deal will be agreed but then delivery delayed because of whatever processes need to be followed before the contract can be signed.
The thing that most concerns me right now is that the UK Government apparently made up some nonsense about an email going missing to distract the press from the main story. But, it's happened so many times that maybe it shouldn't anymore.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
On today's figures for Spain they definitely show a smaller rate of increase - pleasingly in our relatively unaffected area as well as the others. I notice that Murcia's were less good but most seemed to flattening the curve somewhat. The UK is currently rising much more steeply but starting from a lower base they should, given the lockdown, escape a little relatively lightly. If my sister is typical - they are absolutely terrifed and not leavnig the house at all - they live in Sunderland - a city of 300,000+ with some 27 cases! I have tried to calm her nerves.
Good stay safe.
When did Spain get locked down?
I personally think its time to lockdown London with immediate effect
The Cabinet is going to be a political version of the Diamond Princess.
We can watch the rats of infection, severe illness and so on, and extrapolate to the larger population
Hopefully the rats of infection will tail off.
I am sure it is an issue gnawing at their thoughts. They will need to hole up for a while.
I hope that's a sign you're feeling better, Foxy!
Just about to start a remote meeting. Could be a total disaster as I've never used the tech for group chat before.
Yes, bright enough to potter in the garden. It is a bit up and down though.
IF I had this disease back in January, one of the distinct symptoms is how it fluctuates. You feel terrible, you feel better, you feel terrible again. V weird.
My wife told me last night that when she caught what I had, she had a coughing fit so bad she nearly fainted on the Tube (she'd never told me this before). In retrospect it does seem like we might have had it, maybe the antibody tests will tell me, when they are released.
Good luck to you and your wife.
Severaal people have posted wondering if their flu in January/December/November was Covid-19.
I have to say this is very, very unlikely that you had Covid-19. My evidence is that the virus is clearly very contageous: even the PM has caught it. But in February there were thousands of tests being carried out and only 100 or so came back positive. The negatives would have included a lot of random testing, and people presenting with flu symptoms wanting to know if it was Flu or Covid.
On top of that in over half of all the early cases there was an obviuos trace back to China. Then there was an obvoius trace back to Italy.
All of these point against the idea that Coronavirus was spreading widely in the UK undetected before mid-February, and the picture is similar in all European countries, just with a different take off date.
Why "even the PM"? Surely, given the number of people he meets, he's one of the most likely people to get it in the country.
I doubt if Boris spends his rush hours on the Tube.
Churchill did though. I know, 'cause I watched that movie.
Boris always got about London on his bike before becoming PM. It is one of the good things about him. I notice that bike shops have exempted from the close down order which is great for me because I've just had a puncture which my bike shop has fixed this afternoon.
My daily bike ride is keeping me sane. And there is a bike shop up the hill in case of puncture.
You guys get punctures fixed at a bike shop. I thought I was the pits at diy but...
As it stands I have no puncture repair kit. I could a) buy one off AMZN (do the local shop out of a sale plus have a package to deal with) or b) buy one now from the bike shop (= going in there in person) or c) wait until I have a puncture (might be stranded mid-ride).
I am on c) atm although might move to b) as a precaution.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
Callous is a word often used instead of unpleasant - In the current climate in Spain I'd happily use both.
So do you think that Coronabonds should be introduced? Rather than - say - a bilateral loan?
The Cabinet is going to be a political version of the Diamond Princess.
We can watch the rats of infection, severe illness and so on, and extrapolate to the larger population
Hopefully the rats of infection will tail off.
I am sure it is an issue gnawing at their thoughts. They will need to hole up for a while.
I hope that's a sign you're feeling better, Foxy!
Just about to start a remote meeting. Could be a total disaster as I've never used the tech for group chat before.
Yes, bright enough to potter in the garden. It is a bit up and down though.
IF I had this disease back in January, one of the distinct symptoms is how it fluctuates. You feel terrible, you feel better, you feel terrible again. V weird.
My wife told me last night that when she caught what I had, she had a coughing fit so bad she nearly fainted on the Tube (she'd never told me this before). In retrospect it does seem like we might have had it, maybe the antibody tests will tell me, when they are released.
Good luck to you and your wife.
Severaal people have posted wondering if their flu in January/December/November was Covid-19.
I have to say this is very, very unlikely that you had Covid-19. My evidence is that the virus is clearly very contageous: even the PM has caught it. But in February there were thousands of tests being carried out and only 100 or so came back positive. The negatives would have included a lot of random testing, and people presenting with flu symptoms wanting to know if it was Flu or Covid.
On top of that in over half of all the early cases there was an obviuos trace back to China. Then there was an obvoius trace back to Italy.
All of these point against the idea that Coronavirus was spreading widely in the UK undetected before mid-February, and the picture is similar in all European countries, just with a different take off date.
Why "even the PM"? Surely, given the number of people he meets, he's one of the most likely people to get it in the country.
I doubt if Boris spends his rush hours on the Tube.
Churchill did though. I know, 'cause I watched that movie.
Boris always got about London on his bike before becoming PM. It is one of the good things about him. I notice that bike shops have exempted from the close down order which is great for me because I've just had a puncture which my bike shop has fixed this afternoon.
My daily bike ride is keeping me sane. And there is a bike shop up the hill in case of puncture.
You guys get punctures fixed at a bike shop. I thought I was the pits at diy but...
As it stands I have no puncture repair kit. I could a) buy one off AMZN (do the local shop out of a sale plus have a package to deal with) or b) buy one now from the bike shop (= going in there in person) or c) wait until I have a puncture (might be stranded mid-ride).
I am on c) atm although might move to b) as a precaution.
I carry a spare inner tube (quicker) as well as a repair kit.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
On today's figures for Spain they definitely show a smaller rate of increase - pleasingly in our relatively unaffected area as well as the others. I notice that Murcia's were less good but most seemed to flattening the curve somewhat. The UK is currently rising much more steeply but starting from a lower base they should, given the lockdown, escape a little relatively lightly. If my sister is typical - they are absolutely terrifed and not leavnig the house at all - they live in Sunderland - a city of 300,000+ with some 27 cases! I have tried to calm her nerves.
Good stay safe.
When did Spain get locked down?
I personally think its time to lockdown London with immediate effect
Spain started properly locking down on 16 March. I also think, since we start from a lower base that the UK should have fewer cases than Spain, all other things being equal.
Given that the UK has left the EU, why would it participate anyway? It has clearly got its own scheme going on.
Not really an either/or, is it? There is nothing at all to prevent participating in a joint procurement AND making own, additional arrangements (as other countries are doing).
There's no such thing as a free lunch.
I don't think you understand how joint procurement processes work.
There is a competition among firms to meet the (joint) order and the offer is either acceptable in which case you sign the contract or not in which case you don't.
Participating was a no-brainer in this case and it is a major concern that the UK (apparently due to some kind of error on our part) didn't.
Why was it a no brainer? Time was of the essence so why outsource our order to third parties who might prioritise early shipments to Italy etc and leave us at the back of the queue?
We needed ventilators. We got ventilators. Job done.
Because you can easily do both.
Participating in a procurement process doesn't prevent you from pursuing other options. If the lead times promised by the successful tenderer are unacceptable, you just don't sign the contract, and there is nothing to prevent you from pursuing other options, even as the procurement proceeds.
Also, it is not (yet) clear that we do have sufficient ventilators. The Dyson order may stumble, and the numbers may be insufficient for our needs. We'd clearly be in a better place with the Dyson order but with the opportunity to get more from other suppliers.
We aren't just buying from Dyson. We've got a considerable number coming in from many sources now.
How many and more crucialy by when seemed to be answers the Business Secretary was completely incapable of answering last night on Newsnight. In fact he resorted to calling questions of this nature "sniping from the sidelines" Maitless pointed out its what is most important and therefore her job.
On today's figures for Spain they definitely show a smaller rate of increase - pleasingly in our relatively unaffected area as well as the others. I notice that Murcia's were less good but most seemed to flattening the curve somewhat. The UK is currently rising much more steeply but starting from a lower base they should, given the lockdown, escape a little relatively lightly. If my sister is typical - they are absolutely terrifed and not leavnig the house at all - they live in Sunderland - a city of 300,000+ with some 27 cases! I have tried to calm her nerves.
Good stay safe.
When did Spain get locked down?
I personally think its time to lockdown London with immediate effect
Spain started properly locking down on 16 March. I also think, since we start from a lower base that the UK should have fewer cases than Spain, all other things being equal.
So if the rise in cases is slowing after 12 days thats quite good news (by current standards)
The Cabinet is going to be a political version of the Diamond Princess.
We can watch the rats of infection, severe illness and so on, and extrapolate to the larger population
Hopefully the rats of infection will tail off.
I am sure it is an issue gnawing at their thoughts. They will need to hole up for a while.
I hope that's a sign you're feeling better, Foxy!
Just about to start a remote meeting. Could be a total disaster as I've never used the tech for group chat before.
Yes, bright enough to potter in the garden. It is a bit up and down though.
IF I had this disease back in January, one of the distinct symptoms is how it fluctuates. You feel terrible, you feel better, you feel terrible again. V weird.
My wife told me last night that when she caught what I had, she had a coughing fit so bad she nearly fainted on the Tube (she'd never told me this before). In retrospect it does seem like we might have had it, maybe the antibody tests will tell me, when they are released.
Good luck to you and your wife.
Severaal people have posted wondering if their flu in January/December/November was Covid-19.
I have to say this is very, very unlikely that you had Covid-19. My evidence is that the virus is clearly very contageous: even the PM has caught it. But in February there were thousands of tests being carried out and only 100 or so came back positive. The negatives would have included a lot of random testing, and people presenting with flu symptoms wanting to know if it was Flu or Covid.
On top of that in over half of all the early cases there was an obviuos trace back to China. Then there was an obvoius trace back to Italy.
All of these point against the idea that Coronavirus was spreading widely in the UK undetected before mid-February, and the picture is similar in all European countries, just with a different take off date.
Why "even the PM"? Surely, given the number of people he meets, he's one of the most likely people to get it in the country.
I doubt if Boris spends his rush hours on the Tube.
Churchill did though. I know, 'cause I watched that movie.
Boris always got about London on his bike before becoming PM. It is one of the good things about him. I notice that bike shops have exempted from the close down order which is great for me because I've just had a puncture which my bike shop has fixed this afternoon.
My daily bike ride is keeping me sane. And there is a bike shop up the hill in case of puncture.
You guys get punctures fixed at a bike shop. I thought I was the pits at diy but...
As it stands I have no puncture repair kit. I could a) buy one off AMZN (do the local shop out of a sale plus have a package to deal with) or b) buy one now from the bike shop (= going in there in person) or c) wait until I have a puncture (might be stranded mid-ride).
I am on c) atm although might move to b) as a precaution.
I carry a spare inner tube (quicker) as well as a repair kit.
You are a far more adept cyclist than I am. I did actually ask the shop a couple of weeks ago about an inner tube but, my bike being ancient and shit, and their bikes being fancy and state of the art, they didn't have the right one. They gave absolutely no hint that they were at all interested in ordering one. But that was then. This is now!
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
Given the majority on here think England is the UK, do not be surprised about ignorance re pesky foreigners.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
Give the NHS £50bn a year more and within 5 years it'll be screaming out for more cash.
Which it should probably get.
You need to run excess capacity - an NHS "surplus" if you like - in the good (epidemic free) times so that when the bad times come (e.g. now) you can handle it without trashing the economy and abolishing personal freedom.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
Given the majority on here think England is the UK, do not be surprised about ignorance re pesky foreigners.
Now now malc- nobody can survive this crisis without the 4 nations pulling as one - the Tunnocks teacakes are going down a treat here for a start.
The Cabinet is going to be a political version of the Diamond Princess.
We can watch the rats of infection, severe illness and so on, and extrapolate to the larger population
Hopefully the rats of infection will tail off.
I am sure it is an issue gnawing at their thoughts. They will need to hole up for a while.
I hope that's a sign you're feeling better, Foxy!
Just about to start a remote meeting. Could be a total disaster as I've never used the tech for group chat before.
Yes, bright enough to potter in the garden. It is a bit up and down though.
IF I had this disease back in January, one of the distinct symptoms is how it fluctuates. You feel terrible, you feel better, you feel terrible again. V weird.
My wife told me last night that when she caught what I had, she had a coughing fit so bad she nearly fainted on the Tube (she'd never told me this before). In retrospect it does seem like we might have had it, maybe the antibody tests will tell me, when they are released.
Good luck to you and your wife.
Severaal people have posted wondering if their flu in January/December/November was Covid-19.
I have to say this is very, very unlikely that you had Covid-19. My evidence is that the virus is clearly very contageous: even the PM has caught it. But in February there were thousands of tests being carried out and only 100 or so came back positive. The negatives would have included a lot of random testing, and people presenting with flu symptoms wanting to know if it was Flu or Covid.
On top of that in over half of all the early cases there was an obviuos trace back to China. Then there was an obvoius trace back to Italy.
All of these point against the idea that Coronavirus was spreading widely in the UK undetected before mid-February, and the picture is similar in all European countries, just with a different take off date.
Why "even the PM"? Surely, given the number of people he meets, he's one of the most likely people to get it in the country.
I doubt if Boris spends his rush hours on the Tube.
Churchill did though. I know, 'cause I watched that movie.
Boris always got about London on his bike before becoming PM. It is one of the good things about him. I notice that bike shops have exempted from the close down order which is great for me because I've just had a puncture which my bike shop has fixed this afternoon.
My daily bike ride is keeping me sane. And there is a bike shop up the hill in case of puncture.
You guys get punctures fixed at a bike shop. I thought I was the pits at diy but...
As it stands I have no puncture repair kit. I could a) buy one off AMZN (do the local shop out of a sale plus have a package to deal with) or b) buy one now from the bike shop (= going in there in person) or c) wait until I have a puncture (might be stranded mid-ride).
I am on c) atm although might move to b) as a precaution.
I carry a spare inner tube (quicker) as well as a repair kit.
You are a far more adept cyclist than I am. I did actually ask the shop a couple of weeks ago about an inner tube but, my bike being ancient and shit, and their bikes being fancy and state of the art, they didn't have the right one. They gave absolutely no hint that they were at all interested in ordering one. But that was then. This is now!
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
Given the majority on here think England is the UK, do not be surprised about ignorance re pesky foreigners.
The only person I know of to think that is Hitler. Desist now Malcolm.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
Given the majority on here think England is the UK, do not be surprised about ignorance re pesky foreigners.
Now now malc- nobody can survive this crisis without the 4 nations pulling as one - the Tunnocks teacakes are going down a treat here for a start.
If, at the end of the crisis, EU countries have done significantly better at having ventilators available, then we can reasonably consider it was a mistake not to join in the joint procurement efforts. On the other hand, if they haven't, then it will be clear there was no mistake.
The die has been cast. We can work out who was right and who was wrong in about eight weeks.
Yup - atm just a whole load of unnecessary hot air! Conseguire mi abrigo!
Italian numbers will come out earlier today. At 17:30 pm local time. Press conference has been scheduled earlier because at 18:00 we all need to switch to the Pope holding a special prayer for the end of the epidemy and giving out indulgence.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
Don't be pedantic then.
I didn't think I was. And I still think that it is a valid point to make, beyond any pedantry, given how much impetus you and many of your countrymen have placed on questions of national and quasi-national identity, in the past and in the present.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
Give the NHS £50bn a year more and within 5 years it'll be screaming out for more cash.
Which it should probably get.
You need to run excess capacity - an NHS "surplus" if you like - in the good (epidemic free) times so that when the bad times come (e.g. now) you can handle it without trashing the economy and abolishing personal freedom.
Prudence. Risk management. Sound finances.
Has Boris been spending £350m a week extra on the NHS since we left the EU?
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
Callous is a word often used instead of unpleasant - In the current climate in Spain I'd happily use both.
So do you think that Coronabonds should be introduced? Rather than - say - a bilateral loan?
I live in Europe - I think the EU should show solidarity with all member states, especially when some are in exceptional difficulties, including Spain, Italy and France. Not to do so represents a collective failure.
Give the NHS £50bn a year more and within 5 years it'll be screaming out for more cash.
Which it should probably get.
You need to run excess capacity - an NHS "surplus" if you like - in the good (epidemic free) times so that when the bad times come (e.g. now) you can handle it without trashing the economy and abolishing personal freedom.
Prudence. Risk management. Sound finances.
That doesn't actually work in practice, though. Even model lefty social democracies are trashing their economies and abolishing personal freedoms as we speak.
So our penny-pinching is a true economy, rather than a false one.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
I thought a certain bluntness with the truth was a Dutch national characteristic? In any case, it's not intended to be offensive - it's a synecdoche.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
*sensitivities
Sensibilities.
There are English dictionaries online. Consult them.
Give the NHS £50bn a year more and within 5 years it'll be screaming out for more cash.
Which it should probably get.
You need to run excess capacity - an NHS "surplus" if you like - in the good (epidemic free) times so that when the bad times come (e.g. now) you can handle it without trashing the economy and abolishing personal freedom.
Prudence. Risk management. Sound finances.
Like that Yes Minister episode - the hospital with no patients - awards for cleanliness.
Give the NHS £50bn a year more and within 5 years it'll be screaming out for more cash.
Which it should probably get.
You need to run excess capacity - an NHS "surplus" if you like - in the good (epidemic free) times so that when the bad times come (e.g. now) you can handle it without trashing the economy and abolishing personal freedom.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
Give the NHS £50bn a year more and within 5 years it'll be screaming out for more cash.
Which it should probably get.
You need to run excess capacity - an NHS "surplus" if you like - in the good (epidemic free) times so that when the bad times come (e.g. now) you can handle it without trashing the economy and abolishing personal freedom.
Prudence. Risk management. Sound finances.
Remind us which of the advanced economies are not on virtual lockdown right now?
No doubt you want a snowplough on every street corner as well in case of a bad winter.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
Callous is a word often used instead of unpleasant - In the current climate in Spain I'd happily use both.
So do you think that Coronabonds should be introduced? Rather than - say - a bilateral loan?
I live in Europe - I think the EU should show solidarity with all member states, especially when some are in exceptional difficulties, including Spain, Italy and France. Not to do so represents a collective failure.
But we literally just had the debt crisis which in part was caused risk effectively being pooled when it wasn't in fact.
It could be very easily a requirement that you don't procure independently.
Other EU countries appear to be ordering ventilators through other routes as well which suggests there are no restrictions on procuring independently.
The EU Commission also has I think stepped in to stop/reduce Germany and France's ban on export of necessary medical equipment to ensure solidarity within the bloc.
The first article is from March 5, though (the second is less specific on whether independent orders have been placed).
The second article mentioned that Getinge produces at Solna, so Sweden. You also have Hamilton in Switzerland, Draeger and Lowenstein in Germany and Smiths in Luton
Twitter reports that Chris Whitty has tested positive. Coronavirus is running rampant through Westminster.
Testing the herd immunity strategy...
More seriously this is really bad. We can ill afford to have the egg-heads out of action.
We could lose politicians and journos, but god knows we need Chris Whitty. This is not good at all, but does demonstrate to the dimmer members of the public that this thing is very contagious.
Twitter reports that Chris Whitty has tested positive. Coronavirus is running rampant through Westminster.
Testing the herd immunity strategy...
More seriously this is really bad. We can ill afford to have the egg-heads out of action.
We could lose politicians and journos, but god knows we need Chris Whitty. This is not good at all, but does demonstrate to the dimmer members of the public that this thing is very contagious.
Having the journos self isolating for 7 days, no 14 days, no lets be safe side, 3 months, would be an improvement.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
I thought a certain bluntness with the truth was a Dutch national characteristic? In any case, it's not intended to be offensive - it's a synecdoche.
Bluntness maybe, misappropriation less so. Holland is not really synonymous with the Netherlands, ask any Frysians or Limburgers, you might be surprised of their level of bluntness.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
Callous is a word often used instead of unpleasant - In the current climate in Spain I'd happily use both.
So do you think that Coronabonds should be introduced? Rather than - say - a bilateral loan?
I live in Europe - I think the EU should show solidarity with all member states, especially when some are in exceptional difficulties, including Spain, Italy and France. Not to do so represents a collective failure.
But we literally just had the debt crisis which in part was caused risk effectively being pooled when it wasn't in fact.
Give the NHS £50bn a year more and within 5 years it'll be screaming out for more cash.
Which it should probably get.
You need to run excess capacity - an NHS "surplus" if you like - in the good (epidemic free) times so that when the bad times come (e.g. now) you can handle it without trashing the economy and abolishing personal freedom.
Prudence. Risk management. Sound finances.
Given that places with 4 or 5 times the excess icu capacity to us are still struggling looks to me that they were hosing money for no good reason as come the crunch they still weren't able to cope.
All this excess capacity needs to be payed for. Millions of people already just on the tipping point between managing and not managing. a couple of % extra tax would tip them over.
Most people who go on about an extra % for this and an extra % for that on tax I can't help noticing are the comfortably off where if it makes a difference at all they may buy couple of less bottles of wine a month. They generally don't fall into the I can make the money last by eating beans on toast the last few days of the month.
The inevitable conclusion of today's news seems to be that Boris Johnson, Angela Rayner, Matt Hancock, and Chris Whitty were all doing something in close proximity together 5 days ago, possibly in violation of social distancing rules...
Lets look positively. Hopefully they all suffer only mild symptoms and should be ok in a week knowing these people are all immune when the absolute worst hits.
That doesn't actually work in practice, though. Even model lefty social democracies are trashing their economies and abolishing personal freedoms as we speak.
So our penny-pinching is a true economy, rather than a false one.
But if I offer you the Tardis and the chance to have been running ICU capacity at 10 times current levels for the last 10 years? I think you will take that chance and the net result is to save us all a fortune. It's the same rationale as for making banks hold excess capital. Black swan insurance. Fixing the roof when the sun is shining. Saving for a rainy day. Many a mickle makes a mackle.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
Don't be pedantic then.
I didn't think I was. And I still think that it is a valid point to make, beyond any pedantry, given how much impetus you and many of your countrymen have placed on questions of national and quasi-national identity, in the past and in the present.
"Not to be pedantic" suggests that you did know you were being pedantic
I know perfectly well the difference between Holland and The Netherlands. However, I was on a mobile device and frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
Generally, though, you do give the impression of being very spiky and Deutschland Uber Alles
Give the NHS £50bn a year more and within 5 years it'll be screaming out for more cash.
Which it should probably get.
You need to run excess capacity - an NHS "surplus" if you like - in the good (epidemic free) times so that when the bad times come (e.g. now) you can handle it without trashing the economy and abolishing personal freedom.
Prudence. Risk management. Sound finances.
Like that Yes Minister episode - the hospital with no patients - awards for cleanliness.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
Callous is a word often used instead of unpleasant - In the current climate in Spain I'd happily use both.
So do you think that Coronabonds should be introduced? Rather than - say - a bilateral loan?
I live in Europe - I think the EU should show solidarity with all member states, especially when some are in exceptional difficulties, including Spain, Italy and France. Not to do so represents a collective failure.
I agree with that. I'm not sure that accepting every bad idea is the right response though.
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
I thought a certain bluntness with the truth was a Dutch national characteristic? In any case, it's not intended to be offensive - it's a synecdoche.
Bluntness maybe, misappropriation less so. Holland is not really synonymous with the Netherlands, ask any Frysians or Limburgers, you might be surprised of their level of bluntness.
I was so hoping you'd ask me what a synecdoche was, so that I could deploy my favourite rhetorical-device-related joke...
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
The phrase "Now is not the time..." comes to mind.
What was it the chap said about "When my neighbours house is on fire, I lend him my hose, not quibble about the price"?
I'm not sure whether that is in favour of coronabonds or not?
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
Not to be pedantic, but calling the Netherlands "Holland" is a bit like calling the UK "England", something likely to touch on some peoples' sensibilities.
Don't be pedantic then.
I didn't think I was. And I still think that it is a valid point to make, beyond any pedantry, given how much impetus you and many of your countrymen have placed on questions of national and quasi-national identity, in the past and in the present.
"Not to be pedantic" suggests that you did know you were being pedantic
I know perfectly well the difference between Holland and The Netherlands. However, I was on a mobile device and frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
Generally, though, you do give the impression of being very spiky and Deutschland Uber Alles
Clever to link GWTW and a discussion about ventialtors. Kudos!
It could be very easily a requirement that you don't procure independently.
Other EU countries appear to be ordering ventilators through other routes as well which suggests there are no restrictions on procuring independently.
The EU Commission also has I think stepped in to stop/reduce Germany and France's ban on export of necessary medical equipment to ensure solidarity within the bloc.
The first article is from March 5, though (the second is less specific on whether independent orders have been placed).
The second article mentioned that Getinge produces at Solna, so Sweden. You also have Hamilton in Switzerland, Draeger and Lowenstein in Germany and Smiths in Luton
That was the other question I asked when people first started posting this. Do we know which countries are participating? (I specifically asked about Germany and Sweden because of their capabilities).
Quite why anyone thinks we should have added an extra layer of EU bureaucracy and EU politics into our urgent sourcing of more ventilators is a mystery to me.
I think you are right. Indeed the leaders' conference call yesterday has also gone very badly with the blocking of the Coronabond idea and some unpleasant comments from the Dutch about Spain. All a bit unedifying sadly.
The article I saw (which I think you linked?) had the Dutch opposing mutualised debt.
His criticism was that Spain should have run a budget surplus during the last 10 years and so it would have been able to afford it itself.
A little callous, perhaps, but not really "unpleasant". Frankly the whole "coronabond" idea strikes me as the people who have always wanted mutualised debt trying to avoid a good crisis going to waste.
Were there more comments that I missed?
Callous is a word often used instead of unpleasant - In the current climate in Spain I'd happily use both.
So do you think that Coronabonds should be introduced? Rather than - say - a bilateral loan?
I live in Europe - I think the EU should show solidarity with all member states, especially when some are in exceptional difficulties, including Spain, Italy and France. Not to do so represents a collective failure.
But we literally just had the debt crisis which in part was caused risk effectively being pooled when it wasn't in fact.
?
The debt crisis was caused by periphery bonds being rated the same risk as Germany, when they weren't. Those countries used the German credit card and went crazy with it, then we got the sovereign debt crisis. While I completely understand nations needing to kick start their economies in a couple of months (the UK included) it's not fair on the German taxpayer that they should pay for Italian or Spanish fiscal stimulus without having a say on how their money will be spent by getting a vote in Spain or Italy.
The EU will always try and use more Europe as the solution, maybe it is here, maybe it's for nations to get out of the straight jacket that is the Euro. The issue is that what we have now with the leaders of one nation asking for citizens of another to write them a blank cheque is completely wrong.
Leavers: those mad Remoaners making everything about Brexit.
Also Leavers: on no account should Britain participate with the EU in any aspect of tackling Covid-19.
This decision to spurn ventilators procured through the offices of the EU really could result in unnecessary deaths.
Or maybe, just maybe pooling resources doesn't make sense for a country that has manufacturing capacity of its own.
If you only look for your own advantage then yes, you might be correct.
I write this from a country that had a considerable headstart in terms of existing supply and , maybe more importantly, the manufacturing base to quickly churn out more of anything useful. My country and others reflexively resorted to an export ban, to secure their position. That maybe understandable in the first moment but on further reflexion it might not be the morally right thing to exclude other, less fortunate countries.
Further, the proposed scheme was not so much focused on merely distributing future supplies, but on increasing overall industrial output by transnational cooperation. A win-win aspect in addition to some zero-sum game. May sound familiar.
I am reminded of an Irish Republican who I once debated online. He insisted that everything bad that happened in the troubles including any action of the PIRA anyone didn't like, was done by the EvulBritSecurocrats.
I pointed out if they actually ran the PIRA, UVF, SDLP, UUP, Sein Fein & the Irish Government all at the same time etc that surely that they must be geniuses on an unheard of level. Why not join them?
Comments
Oh, Jeremy Corbyn?
Did not fix the NHS roof when the sun was shining (i.e. when we didn't have a deadly virus going around).
The thing that most concerns me right now is that the UK Government apparently made up some nonsense about an email going missing to distract the press from the main story. But, it's happened so many times that maybe it shouldn't anymore.
The issue is Spain, Italy and France were trying to push through a novel programme which Holland and Germany have opposed for a decade (basically Holland and Germany being on the hook for Spain's borrowing).
When did Spain get locked down?
I personally think its time to lockdown London with immediate effect
I am on c) atm although might move to b) as a precaution.
GE loser, yes, but won the argument and moved the Overton Window.
2. is my favorite one
3. maybe the hardest?
You need to run excess capacity - an NHS "surplus" if you like - in the good (epidemic free) times so that when the bad times come (e.g. now) you can handle it without trashing the economy and abolishing personal freedom.
Prudence. Risk management. Sound finances.
And I still think that it is a valid point to make, beyond any pedantry, given how much impetus you and many of your countrymen have placed on questions of national and quasi-national identity, in the past and in the present.
So our penny-pinching is a true economy, rather than a false one.
There are English dictionaries online. Consult them.
More seriously this is really bad. We can ill afford to have the egg-heads out of action.
No doubt you want a snowplough on every street corner as well in case of a bad winter.
https://www.reuters.com/article/brief-sweden-orders-200-ventilators-from/brief-sweden-orders-200-ventilators-from-getinge-health-minister-spokeswoman-idUSFWN2BK19I
https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/wurth-elektronik-produces-pcbs-2020-03/
https://twitter.com/DizzyDi005/status/1243572465240064000?s=20
What absolute bell-end.
All this excess capacity needs to be payed for. Millions of people already just on the tipping point between managing and not managing. a couple of % extra tax would tip them over.
Most people who go on about an extra % for this and an extra % for that on tax I can't help noticing are the comfortably off where if it makes a difference at all they may buy couple of less bottles of wine a month. They generally don't fall into the I can make the money last by eating beans on toast the last few days of the month.
https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1243567415193219075?s=20
https://twitter.com/uksciencechief/status/1243549483130028032?s=20
I know perfectly well the difference between Holland and The Netherlands. However, I was on a mobile device and frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
Generally, though, you do give the impression of being very spiky and Deutschland Uber Alles
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1243559373395410957?s=20
They mobilized their entire society and it is now contained.
Trump called it a hoax and it’s now out of control.
The press articles say "most" EU countries are.
The EU will always try and use more Europe as the solution, maybe it is here, maybe it's for nations to get out of the straight jacket that is the Euro. The issue is that what we have now with the leaders of one nation asking for citizens of another to write them a blank cheque is completely wrong.
I write this from a country that had a considerable headstart in terms of existing supply and , maybe more importantly, the manufacturing base to quickly churn out more of anything useful. My country and others reflexively resorted to an export ban, to secure their position. That maybe understandable in the first moment but on further reflexion it might not be the morally right thing to exclude other, less fortunate countries.
Further, the proposed scheme was not so much focused on merely distributing future supplies, but on increasing overall industrial output by transnational cooperation. A win-win aspect in addition to some zero-sum game. May sound familiar.
I pointed out if they actually ran the PIRA, UVF, SDLP, UUP, Sein Fein & the Irish Government all at the same time etc that surely that they must be geniuses on an unheard of level. Why not join them?