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  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    To avert socialism, we must briefly become socialists. We must spend whatever it takes to save free market liberalism.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/20/boris-must-become-socialist-face-nationalising-entire-economy/

    Liberalism has either been paused or abandoned. I`m not yet sure which.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Yorkcity said:

    Had to renew my passport.
    Went into main post office on Monday afternoon.
    They took the digital photo, e mail address and mobile number.
    It was tracked all the way and I was informed at each stage.
    TNT delivered it today.
    Good service, I would recommend it.

    Also for those who care , it was a dark blue Brirish one.

    Lovely. What are you going to use it for?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    nichomar said:

    Nigelb said:

    I came across a celebrity who has not been tested (!)

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/mar/21/lewis-hamilton-self-isolating-but-showing-no-coronavirus-symptoms
    I did speak to my doctor and double checked if I needed to take a test but the truth is, there is a limited amount of tests available and there are people who need it more than I do, especially when I wasn’t showing any symptoms at all. So what I’ve done is keep myself isolated this past week...

    Has anybody rich or famous died from the virus yet? I did see an Italian architect had died a few days ago but I didn’t recognize the name.
    And he was 90 something.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Florida does not sound great...

    https://slate.com/technology/2020/03/florida-climate-change-coronavirus.html
    As of Friday morning, there were 520 cases of COVID-19 in the state, as well as 10 deaths from the virus. Florida’s many seniors—more than 20 percent of the state’s 21.5 million residents are over 65—are at heightened risk of dying, and there are already suspected or confirmed coronavirus cases at 19 long-term care facilities. The actual number of current infections in Florida is undoubtedly far, far higher, since there is a dire lack of tests. Meanwhile, DeSantis, a Republican, has repeatedly promoted misinformation about the virus: He contradicted infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci’s assertion that the state had community spread and asserted, falsely, that asymptomatic people cannot test positive. Meanwhile, it is business as usual at the state capitol, where more than 100 Florida legislators gathered on Thursday for votes. Yes, in person. Even though a Florida congressman tested positive for coronavirus on Wednesday.


    The consequences of the state’s collective inaction are only starting to become apparent. As the number of confirmed cases skyrockets with (slowly) accelerated testing, so too will the number of deaths. On Thursday, a man who had visited Disney World earlier in the month died from COVID-19. He was 34 years old. It is extremely likely that the families who strolled around the Magic Kingdom during a pandemic spread the virus between one another. So, too, did the beachgoers and spring breakers who tanned and swam and drank together well after COVID-19 became a national emergency. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention begged Americans to avoid crowds and large gatherings. But who wants to listen to the CDC when the party is still raging outside on the beach that the governor isn’t worried enough to close?...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    nichomar said:

    Nigelb said:

    I came across a celebrity who has not been tested (!)

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/mar/21/lewis-hamilton-self-isolating-but-showing-no-coronavirus-symptoms
    I did speak to my doctor and double checked if I needed to take a test but the truth is, there is a limited amount of tests available and there are people who need it more than I do, especially when I wasn’t showing any symptoms at all. So what I’ve done is keep myself isolated this past week...

    Has anybody rich or famous died from the virus yet? I did see an Italian architect had died a few days ago but I didn’t recognize the name.
    You’ll have to ask our official scorekeeper, @Dura_Ace .
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    Next week: wisteria?
    Wisteria is easy... In August cut the stems back to five buds each, leaving any you intend to form new branches. Train as required. In January trim the same stems back to three buds. Otherwise leave well alone.
    "7 and 2" is the rule for wisteria.

    In the 7th month (July) cut stems down to the 7th bud. Then in the 2nd month (Feb) cut stems down to the 2nd bud.
    Three buds is better, more flowers, which a mature bush ought to be able to support.
    I think we should get into a heated nasty debate about this in PB style. Maybe criticise HYUFD for no discernible reason?
    I disagree. First, because nobody has ever attacked Hyufd for no discernible reason - why bother when there are lots of discernible ones we can use? - but second because there’s just no fuchsia in talking about plants.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Nigelb said:

    Florida does not sound great...

    It will be a disaster zone, especially because of the time year. It has an old population in general with retirees, but winter is when all the "snow birds" from across the US move there for a few months to take advantage of the warmer climate.
  • Charles said:
    No idea why you should attack a Cabinet Minister for getting it right and helping to propel the Govt to act.

    I think we all know by now that the Govt acted way too slowly and believed one subset of scientists instead of having the humility to listen to others including from overseas. The net result of that will probably be a massive surge in cases and deaths in the short term. But at least they are gradually improving.

    I also don't know why anyone is very surprised. Johnson won a great victory against the most unelectable leader in Labour's history - a man so toxic that even his own MPs deserted him.

    As I've mentioned before, it's not that Boris believed one subset of scientists, it's that he made the wrong choice of the scientifically-based options placed before him. He gambled on the high-risk, low-cost option, and lost. He screwed up the single most important decision, and then he compounded his mistake by dithering afterwards. Other than Trump, the Ayatollahs and possibly the Dutch prime minister Rutte, it's hard to think of a leader who has dealt more ineptly with the pandemic.
    Corbyn would have been much worse.
    I doubt it. I think he would have tried to follow the example of other countries that have had some success in limiting the spread the virus. He doesn't have the need that Boris does for people to like him, and I think he'd have been quicker to make a potentially unpopular early decision to lock down.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    kinabalu said:

    And no need to attack those of us who are seeking clarification - it is in the EU interests to do so

    Just get a little frustrated sometimes at this sort of nonsense.

    But the river of debate flows and we sail on.
    Come on it what you’d expect from the ‘no extension’ brigade let’s keep the EU hatred stoked up.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    Next week: wisteria?
    Wisteria is easy... In August cut the stems back to five buds each, leaving any you intend to form new branches. Train as required. In January trim the same stems back to three buds. Otherwise leave well alone.
    "7 and 2" is the rule for wisteria.

    In the 7th month (July) cut stems down to the 7th bud. Then in the 2nd month (Feb) cut stems down to the 2nd bud.
    Three buds is better, more flowers, which a mature bush ought to be able to support.
    I think we should get into a heated nasty debate about this in PB style. Maybe criticise HYUFD for no discernible reason?
    He’d be telling the bush to prune itself and get over it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    To avert socialism, we must briefly become socialists. We must spend whatever it takes to save free market liberalism.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/20/boris-must-become-socialist-face-nationalising-entire-economy/

    I am reminded of the great Sir Boyle Roche:

    ‘Mr Speaker, we must be prepared to give up if necessary not just a part but even the whole of our constitution, to preserve the remainder.’
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    IanB2 said:

    Given the circumstances we find ourselves in I am going to take a slightly different approach to the review this week. As opposed to selecting a single subject to critique, I thought it would be more helpful to pick out five 5-star (IMO) hidden gems freely accessible online, which can be enjoyed at home.

    I've tried to mix it up a bit, taking in a classic kids TV series, an amazing speech, a great documentary, magnificent opera, and tip top pod.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51968653

    I'm sure some PBers can themselves suggest other things of interest.

    I am quite enjoying Monk on Amazon Prime at the moment. Think autistic Colombo with OCD, in San Fran. Each episode is stand alone and contains a crime mystery, so it’s an engaging way to spend chunks of 45 minutes.
    It’s OK.
    Tony Shalhoub is brilliant in just about everything.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Stocky said:

    I`ve been off line for a bit. Did we find out who JM1 is?

    And when was the last time we heard from our resident doomsday merchant. I presume he hasn't got an internet access in his nuclear bomb shelter.
    Oh, you suspect JM1 is SeanT?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Are the EU really banning part of the Chancellors rescue package?

    Interesting move.

    What is this?
    It seems to be a nonsense story briefed to the Times in order to stir up some anti-EU feeling.
    Entirely predictable I'm afraid. The Brexit evangelists are nothing if not exhibitionists. They'll feel that the virus crisis has stolen their limelight and are desperate to be centre of attention again.
    Then provide a link to denial of the story

    If true it a devastating own goal and will see any support for the EU collapse
    Dear oh dear.
    Please provide the denial then the issue is dealt with
    The story doesn't make sense in its own terms because it says that "selective tax advantages" will be allowed.
    Selective tax advantages up to Eur 800K per company.

    But Rishi's proposal is > Eur 800K for the biggest companies. (It is defined as selective because it only applies to some sectors)

    So it is therefore outwith the rules, unless you limit the benefit to the big hotels and airlines.
    It would be nice to see a link to this story, as I said before, I have the times hard copy and it isn't there.

    https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report-international/eu-eases-rules-more-on-government-handouts-for-virus-tax-relief

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1241300115094147072?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8546/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-looking-on-the-bright-side-another-decade-of-austerity-at-be/p7

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    I`ve been off line for a bit. Did we find out who JM1 is?

    And when was the last time we heard from our resident doomsday merchant. I presume he hasn't got an internet access in his nuclear bomb shelter.
    Oh, you suspect JM1 is SeanT?
    No, just saying, we haven't heard from Mr Doomsday.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    I`ve been off line for a bit. Did we find out who JM1 is?

    And when was the last time we heard from our resident doomsday merchant. I presume he hasn't got an internet access in his nuclear bomb shelter.
    Oh, you suspect JM1 is SeanT?
    Jm1 said s/he was a teacher. I don’t think, after some of the things he said about fifteen year old girls in public including on this board, that Mr Thomas would be allowed to be a teacher.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Hipsters clearly haven't got to the stores yet, there is still Pabst Blue Ribbon left...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8137731/Alcohol-replaces-toilet-paper-number-one-panic-buyers.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    ydoethur said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    Next week: wisteria?
    Wisteria is easy... In August cut the stems back to five buds each, leaving any you intend to form new branches. Train as required. In January trim the same stems back to three buds. Otherwise leave well alone.
    "7 and 2" is the rule for wisteria.

    In the 7th month (July) cut stems down to the 7th bud. Then in the 2nd month (Feb) cut stems down to the 2nd bud.
    Three buds is better, more flowers, which a mature bush ought to be able to support.
    I think we should get into a heated nasty debate about this in PB style. Maybe criticise HYUFD for no discernible reason?
    I disagree. First, because nobody has ever attacked Hyufd for no discernible reason - why bother when there are lots of discernible ones we can use? - but second because there’s just no fuchsia in talking about plants.
    Now that’s just hollyhocks.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited March 2020

    RobD said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Are the EU really banning part of the Chancellors rescue package?

    Interesting move.

    What is this?
    It seems to be a nonsense story briefed to the Times in order to stir up some anti-EU feeling.
    Entirely predictable I'm afraid. The Brexit evangelists are nothing if not exhibitionists. They'll feel that the virus crisis has stolen their limelight and are desperate to be centre of attention again.
    Then provide a link to denial of the story

    If true it a devastating own goal and will see any support for the EU collapse
    Dear oh dear.
    Please provide the denial then the issue is dealt with
    I'll let you in on a little secret, Big_G.... I don't think there is one. That's why he's just mouthing off about Brexiteers instead. :p
    And this is the problem with the EU

    It is so easy to believe the story and in the absence of a denial it must be assumed this is their position, and devastating for their remaining support in the UK
    If the EU had to deny every dubious claim about them promulgated by the British media they'd need a press department the size of the Chinese army.
    But this is important.

    Any idea the EU would block any part of the chancellor's proposals is outrageous and it does need confirmation that it will not interfere in UK policy re covid 19.

    Surely all the EU supporters on here can see how toxic for the EU this could become
    The issue is not breach but enforcement. Is the EU going to take enforcement proceedings? I don't see that from the article or from anywhere else. A man who breaks the speed limit taking someone to A&E breaks the law. The issue arises when he is punished for it. We are breaking the law but no one is, so far as I can see, minding.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    Next week: wisteria?
    Wisteria is easy... In August cut the stems back to five buds each, leaving any you intend to form new branches. Train as required. In January trim the same stems back to three buds. Otherwise leave well alone.
    "7 and 2" is the rule for wisteria.

    In the 7th month (July) cut stems down to the 7th bud. Then in the 2nd month (Feb) cut stems down to the 2nd bud.
    Three buds is better, more flowers, which a mature bush ought to be able to support.
    I think we should get into a heated nasty debate about this in PB style. Maybe criticise HYUFD for no discernible reason?
    I disagree. First, because nobody has ever attacked Hyufd for no discernible reason - why bother when there are lots of discernible ones we can use? - but second because there’s just no fuchsia in talking about plants.
    Now that’s just hollyhocks.
    You creeper.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Charles said:
    No idea why you should attack a Cabinet Minister for getting it right and helping to propel the Govt to act.

    I think we all know by now that the Govt acted way too slowly and believed one subset of scientists instead of having the humility to listen to others including from overseas. The net result of that will probably be a massive surge in cases and deaths in the short term. But at least they are gradually improving.

    I also don't know why anyone is very surprised. Johnson won a great victory against the most unelectable leader in Labour's history - a man so toxic that even his own MPs deserted him.

    As I've mentioned before, it's not that Boris believed one subset of scientists, it's that he made the wrong choice of the scientifically-based options placed before him. He gambled on the high-risk, low-cost option, and lost. He screwed up the single most important decision, and then he compounded his mistake by dithering afterwards. Other than Trump, the Ayatollahs and possibly the Dutch prime minister Rutte, it's hard to think of a leader who has dealt more ineptly with the pandemic.
    Corbyn would have been much worse.
    I doubt it. I think he would have tried to follow the example of other countries that have had some success in limiting the spread the virus. He doesn't have the need that Boris does for people to like him, and I think he'd have been quicker to make a potentially unpopular early decision to lock down.
    Also he’d have been quicker to the helicopter money approach, recovering a significant proportion of the cost through the tax system, that I remain convinced would have been simpler and quicker. The government is doing a lot for targeted groups but through “schemes” that are going to need rules and administration and inevitably have people falling through the gaps. Our media is going to be full of all the loopholes and inadequacies and unfairnesses of the governments approach, whereas they could just have dropped enough money to get by on everyone.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    Next week: wisteria?
    Wisteria is easy... In August cut the stems back to five buds each, leaving any you intend to form new branches. Train as required. In January trim the same stems back to three buds. Otherwise leave well alone.
    "7 and 2" is the rule for wisteria.

    In the 7th month (July) cut stems down to the 7th bud. Then in the 2nd month (Feb) cut stems down to the 2nd bud.
    Three buds is better, more flowers, which a mature bush ought to be able to support.
    I think we should get into a heated nasty debate about this in PB style. Maybe criticise HYUFD for no discernible reason?
    I disagree. First, because nobody has ever attacked Hyufd for no discernible reason - why bother when there are lots of discernible ones we can use? - but second because there’s just no fuchsia in talking about plants.
    Now that’s just hollyhocks.
    You creeper.
    That’s just a stock response.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Nigelb said:

    Florida does not sound great...

    https://slate.com/technology/2020/03/florida-climate-change-coronavirus.html
    As of Friday morning, there were 520 cases of COVID-19 in the state, as well as 10 deaths from the virus. Florida’s many seniors—more than 20 percent of the state’s 21.5 million residents are over 65—are at heightened risk of dying, and there are already suspected or confirmed coronavirus cases at 19 long-term care facilities. The actual number of current infections in Florida is undoubtedly far, far higher, since there is a dire lack of tests. Meanwhile, DeSantis, a Republican, has repeatedly promoted misinformation about the virus: He contradicted infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci’s assertion that the state had community spread and asserted, falsely, that asymptomatic people cannot test positive. Meanwhile, it is business as usual at the state capitol, where more than 100 Florida legislators gathered on Thursday for votes. Yes, in person. Even though a Florida congressman tested positive for coronavirus on Wednesday.


    The consequences of the state’s collective inaction are only starting to become apparent. As the number of confirmed cases skyrockets with (slowly) accelerated testing, so too will the number of deaths. On Thursday, a man who had visited Disney World earlier in the month died from COVID-19. He was 34 years old. It is extremely likely that the families who strolled around the Magic Kingdom during a pandemic spread the virus between one another. So, too, did the beachgoers and spring breakers who tanned and swam and drank together well after COVID-19 became a national emergency. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention begged Americans to avoid crowds and large gatherings. But who wants to listen to the CDC when the party is still raging outside on the beach that the governor isn’t worried enough to close?...

    They did a plot, I think it shows pneumonia cases way above what is implied by the official numbers
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    ydoethur said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    I`ve been off line for a bit. Did we find out who JM1 is?

    And when was the last time we heard from our resident doomsday merchant. I presume he hasn't got an internet access in his nuclear bomb shelter.
    Oh, you suspect JM1 is SeanT?
    Jm1 said s/he was a teacher. I don’t think, after some of the things he said about fifteen year old girls in public including on this board, that Mr Thomas would be allowed to be a teacher.
    ?? I must have missed those comments!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:
    No idea why you should attack a Cabinet Minister for getting it right and helping to propel the Govt to act.

    I think we all know by now that the Govt acted way too slowly and believed one subset of scientists instead of having the humility to listen to others including from overseas. The net result of that will probably be a massive surge in cases and deaths in the short term. But at least they are gradually improving.

    I also don't know why anyone is very surprised. Johnson won a great victory against the most unelectable leader in Labour's history - a man so toxic that even his own MPs deserted him.

    He shouldn't be selectively briefing to the press and furthering his (or her) internal political cause.

    The government followed advice from their scientific leadership. There was a minority view (which turned out to be correct) but which took time to convince the scientific leadership.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    If you think Boris is struggling and he isn't a moron (but not as smart as he thinks he is), Corbyn would be totally overwhelmed by the speed and level of information flowing in. Corbyn didn't understand with the EU withdrawal agreement, you think he would be able to comprehend all the stuff coming from SAGE.

    Well Corbyn wouldn't have a f##king clue, McDonnell would have already nationalized half of the businesses.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    He doesn't have the need that Boris does for people to like him, and I think he'd have been quicker to make a potentially unpopular early decision to lock down.

    Huh?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Are the EU really banning part of the Chancellors rescue package?

    Interesting move.

    What is this?
    It seems to be a nonsense story briefed to the Times in order to stir up some anti-EU feeling.
    Entirely predictable I'm afraid. The Brexit evangelists are nothing if not exhibitionists. They'll feel that the virus crisis has stolen their limelight and are desperate to be centre of attention again.
    Then provide a link to denial of the story

    If true it a devastating own goal and will see any support for the EU collapse
    Dear oh dear.
    Please provide the denial then the issue is dealt with
    I'll let you in on a little secret, Big_G.... I don't think there is one. That's why he's just mouthing off about Brexiteers instead. :p
    And this is the problem with the EU

    It is so easy to believe the story and in the absence of a denial it must be assumed this is their position, and devastating for their remaining support in the UK
    If the EU had to deny every dubious claim about them promulgated by the British media they'd need a press department the size of the Chinese army.
    But this is important.

    Any idea the EU would block any part of the chancellor's proposals is outrageous and it does need confirmation that it will not interfere in UK policy re covid 19.

    Surely all the EU supporters on here can see how toxic for the EU this could become
    The issue is not breach but enforcement. Is the EU going to take enforcement proceedings? I don't see that from the article or from anywhere else. A man who breaks the speed limit taking someone to A&E breaks the law. The issue arises when he is punished for it. We are breaking the law but no one is, so far as I can see, minding.
    They did during the financial crisis and forced the government to sell Worldpay for a pittance. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that the EU would try and enforce the rules once all of this is over. It's one of the reasons leaving is the right decision.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    "Britain. A nation of shopfighters, presided over at a time of mortal peril by a newspaper columnist, who has for three decades moonlighted as his generation’s leading liar. Still, as the words clawed into the side of the plague pit probably once read, “We are where we are.” "

    ...

    "The government’s crisis communications strategy could not be going worse if it was being led by the last speaker of a dead language, with Typhoid Mary on bass."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/20/boris-johnson-covid-19-prime-minister-brexit

    Marina Hyde. Harsh, but very funny.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Are the EU really banning part of the Chancellors rescue package?

    Interesting move.

    What is this?
    It seems to be a nonsense story briefed to the Times in order to stir up some anti-EU feeling.
    Entirely predictable I'm afraid. The Brexit evangelists are nothing if not exhibitionists. They'll feel that the virus crisis has stolen their limelight and are desperate to be centre of attention again.
    Then provide a link to denial of the story

    If true it a devastating own goal and will see any support for the EU collapse
    I think it's true, but irrelevant

    Essentially some bureaucrat upped the limits on state aid to Eur 800K

    But there is the exemption process to approve anything outside the rules (it took Denmark 24 hours). Now I don't see why you should need to get approval, but hey, we're leaving.

    But the journo is shit stirring
    Thought we had left and Brexit was done, were the thousands of posts on here praising nay revering Boris for getting Brexit done a pack of lies.
    During the transition period EU rules still apply. But of course you know that.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    ydoethur said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    I`ve been off line for a bit. Did we find out who JM1 is?

    And when was the last time we heard from our resident doomsday merchant. I presume he hasn't got an internet access in his nuclear bomb shelter.
    Oh, you suspect JM1 is SeanT?
    Jm1 said s/he was a teacher. I don’t think, after some of the things he said about fifteen year old girls in public including on this board, that Mr Thomas would be allowed to be a teacher.
    JM1 also had good medical knowledge, even direct involvement. That rules out him being a panic stricken hypochondriac.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Nigelb said:

    I came across a celebrity who has not been tested (!)

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/mar/21/lewis-hamilton-self-isolating-but-showing-no-coronavirus-symptoms
    I did speak to my doctor and double checked if I needed to take a test but the truth is, there is a limited amount of tests available and there are people who need it more than I do, especially when I wasn’t showing any symptoms at all. So what I’ve done is keep myself isolated this past week...

    Good for him.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    felix said:

    I haven't seen anyone mention this yet but, erm, millenials being asked to behave in order to save boomers and gammons might stick in the throat somewhat.

    They might reasonably point out that the oldies screwed this country over with Brexit.

    So the fact that most of them are so gracious is testament to what a fabulous generation they are. I mean it. The shits are the likes of Peter Hitchens and Piers Morgan.

    What an idiot you are. Milleniums screwed themselves over Brexit by not bothering to vote. Stop trying to sow discord with your miserable dreary efforts to politicise everything.
    I voted.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Boris Johnson is speaking to supermarket bosses today about how to overcome the panic buying that is gripping the UK. They will also discuss efforts to keep supplies flowing.

    The meetings come ahead of the government’s daily press conference, which will be hosted by the environment secretary, George Eustice, in place of Johnson.

    Eustice is expected to be joined by government scientific and medical experts for the briefing, which takes place at 2pm.

    Wonder which journalist is going to win dickhead question of the day award today?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Stocky said:

    ydoethur said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    I`ve been off line for a bit. Did we find out who JM1 is?

    And when was the last time we heard from our resident doomsday merchant. I presume he hasn't got an internet access in his nuclear bomb shelter.
    Oh, you suspect JM1 is SeanT?
    Jm1 said s/he was a teacher. I don’t think, after some of the things he said about fifteen year old girls in public including on this board, that Mr Thomas would be allowed to be a teacher.
    ?? I must have missed those comments!
    He made them quite a lot at one time. He may have been told to cool them off because they were really quite creepy. I remember I did snap at him once over some particularly inappropriate comments.

    Along with his frequent discussions about ephebophiles and his drunken rantings, they were among the less attractive sides of his posts.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    nichomar said:

    NYT

    Coronavirus in N.Y.: ‘Deluge’ of Cases Begins Hitting Hospitals
    There are already critical shortages: A Bronx hospital is running out of ventilators. In Brooklyn, doctors are reusing masks.

    There is a massive effort across Spain to produce masks, from volunteer Civil Protection members through to asking anyone with a sowing machine volunteer, materials to be provided, anything similar happening in the uk?
    Turns out that a big chunk of the world's ventilators are made in Luton

    https://www.smiths.com/news-and-media/2020/03/smiths-group-significantly-ramping-up-weekly-production-of-ventilators

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,358

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Are the EU really banning part of the Chancellors rescue package?

    Interesting move.

    What is this?
    It seems to be a nonsense story briefed to the Times in order to stir up some anti-EU feeling.
    Entirely predictable I'm afraid. The Brexit evangelists are nothing if not exhibitionists. They'll feel that the virus crisis has stolen their limelight and are desperate to be centre of attention again.
    Then provide a link to denial of the story

    If true it a devastating own goal and will see any support for the EU collapse
    Dear oh dear.
    Please provide the denial then the issue is dealt with
    I'll let you in on a little secret, Big_G.... I don't think there is one. That's why he's just mouthing off about Brexiteers instead. :p
    And this is the problem with the EU

    It is so easy to believe the story and in the absence of a denial it must be assumed this is their position, and devastating for their remaining support in the UK
    If the EU had to deny every dubious claim about them promulgated by the British media they'd need a press department the size of the Chinese army.
    But this is important.

    Any idea the EU would block any part of the chancellor's proposals is outrageous and it does need confirmation that it will not interfere in UK policy re covid 19.

    Surely all the EU supporters on here can see how toxic for the EU this could become
    Here’s confirmation of Denmark’s exemption, granted within 24 hours:

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_20_454

    The issue can then be resolved, as it should be, by the EU immediately granting an exemption

    That then resolves the matter

    Let us hope that is what happens, anything else is unacceptable
    G, it is absolute bell end rubbish, how can you be taken in so easily by absolute horse manure
    If it's complete rubbish, why did the Danes have to ask nicely for an exemption?
    Jingoistic outrage , how very Tory. Worst case it requires a note and an instant exemption. However I will say again , where is the fabled BREXIT IS DONE that has been constantly trumpeted on here.
    I have made my point on this issue and intend leaving it there

    However, you know we are still in transistion until the end of the year and accordingly under the EU state aid rules which the chancellor broke yesterday
    I ma sure they have more to bother them at present than a technical breaking of rules that all members will be participating in, worst outcome is it requires a letter, no lives will be lost. It kind of sums up the state of the UK however , outrage about the most trivial points but gloss over major injustices on a daily basis. The UK really is rotten to the core.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Charles said:

    nichomar said:

    NYT

    Coronavirus in N.Y.: ‘Deluge’ of Cases Begins Hitting Hospitals
    There are already critical shortages: A Bronx hospital is running out of ventilators. In Brooklyn, doctors are reusing masks.

    There is a massive effort across Spain to produce masks, from volunteer Civil Protection members through to asking anyone with a sowing machine volunteer, materials to be provided, anything similar happening in the uk?
    Turns out that a big chunk of the world's ventilators are made in Luton

    https://www.smiths.com/news-and-media/2020/03/smiths-group-significantly-ramping-up-weekly-production-of-ventilators

    It’s ironic to think that something concerned with supplying good quality air to those who need it is made at the home of EasyJet.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Are the EU really banning part of the Chancellors rescue package?

    Interesting move.

    What is this?
    It seems to be a nonsense story briefed to the Times in order to stir up some anti-EU feeling.
    Entirely predictable I'm afraid. The Brexit evangelists are nothing if not exhibitionists. They'll feel that the virus crisis has stolen their limelight and are desperate to be centre of attention again.
    Then provide a link to denial of the story

    If true it a devastating own goal and will see any support for the EU collapse
    Dear oh dear.
    Please provide the denial then the issue is dealt with
    The story doesn't make sense in its own terms because it says that "selective tax advantages" will be allowed.
    Selective tax advantages up to Eur 800K per company.

    But Rishi's proposal is > Eur 800K for the biggest companies. (It is defined as selective because it only applies to some sectors)

    So it is therefore outwith the rules, unless you limit the benefit to the big hotels and airlines.
    It would be nice to see a link to this story, as I said before, I have the times hard copy and it isn't there.

    https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report-international/eu-eases-rules-more-on-government-handouts-for-virus-tax-relief

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1241300115094147072?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8546/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-looking-on-the-bright-side-another-decade-of-austerity-at-be/p7

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford
    Have we stopped to ask why we would want to give big companies and chains more than that in the first place? The crisis is for the little guy, right now.

    Companies like BA and the railways can be nationalised, as an alternative.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,358
    felix said:

    I haven't seen anyone mention this yet but, erm, millenials being asked to behave in order to save boomers and gammons might stick in the throat somewhat.

    They might reasonably point out that the oldies screwed this country over with Brexit.

    So the fact that most of them are so gracious is testament to what a fabulous generation they are. I mean it. The shits are the likes of Peter Hitchens and Piers Morgan.

    What an idiot you are. Milleniums screwed themselves over Brexit by not bothering to vote. Stop trying to sow discord with your miserable dreary efforts to politicise everything.
    Milleniums are a bunch of whining lazy no mark woke losers, wanting everything for nothing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Charles said:

    nichomar said:

    NYT

    Coronavirus in N.Y.: ‘Deluge’ of Cases Begins Hitting Hospitals
    There are already critical shortages: A Bronx hospital is running out of ventilators. In Brooklyn, doctors are reusing masks.

    There is a massive effort across Spain to produce masks, from volunteer Civil Protection members through to asking anyone with a sowing machine volunteer, materials to be provided, anything similar happening in the uk?
    Turns out that a big chunk of the world's ventilators are made in Luton

    https://www.smiths.com/news-and-media/2020/03/smiths-group-significantly-ramping-up-weekly-production-of-ventilators

    Good job the government didn't take my advice of nuking Luton....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    IanB2 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Are the EU really banning part of the Chancellors rescue package?

    Interesting move.

    What is this?
    It seems to be a nonsense story briefed to the Times in order to stir up some anti-EU feeling.
    Entirely predictable I'm afraid. The Brexit evangelists are nothing if not exhibitionists. They'll feel that the virus crisis has stolen their limelight and are desperate to be centre of attention again.
    Then provide a link to denial of the story

    If true it a devastating own goal and will see any support for the EU collapse
    Dear oh dear.
    Please provide the denial then the issue is dealt with
    The story doesn't make sense in its own terms because it says that "selective tax advantages" will be allowed.
    Selective tax advantages up to Eur 800K per company.

    But Rishi's proposal is > Eur 800K for the biggest companies. (It is defined as selective because it only applies to some sectors)

    So it is therefore outwith the rules, unless you limit the benefit to the big hotels and airlines.
    It would be nice to see a link to this story, as I said before, I have the times hard copy and it isn't there.

    https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report-international/eu-eases-rules-more-on-government-handouts-for-virus-tax-relief

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1241300115094147072?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8546/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-looking-on-the-bright-side-another-decade-of-austerity-at-be/p7

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford
    Have we stopped to ask why we would want to give big companies and chains more than that in the first place? The crisis is for the little guy, right now.

    Companies like BA and the railways can be nationalised, as an alternative.
    BA has £10 billion in reserves, it can ride out the crisis better than most airlines
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited March 2020
    nichomar said:

    NYT

    Coronavirus in N.Y.: ‘Deluge’ of Cases Begins Hitting Hospitals
    There are already critical shortages: A Bronx hospital is running out of ventilators. In Brooklyn, doctors are reusing masks.

    There is a massive effort across Spain to produce masks, from volunteer Civil Protection members through to asking anyone with a sowing machine volunteer, materials to be provided, anything similar happening in the uk?
    Turns out that a big chunk of the world's ventilators are made in Luton

    https://www.smiths.com/news-and-media/2020/03/smiths-group-significantly-ramping-up-weekly-production-of-ventilators

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    IanB2 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Are the EU really banning part of the Chancellors rescue package?

    Interesting move.

    What is this?
    It seems to be a nonsense story briefed to the Times in order to stir up some anti-EU feeling.
    Entirely predictable I'm afraid. The Brexit evangelists are nothing if not exhibitionists. They'll feel that the virus crisis has stolen their limelight and are desperate to be centre of attention again.
    Then provide a link to denial of the story

    If true it a devastating own goal and will see any support for the EU collapse
    Dear oh dear.
    Please provide the denial then the issue is dealt with
    The story doesn't make sense in its own terms because it says that "selective tax advantages" will be allowed.
    Selective tax advantages up to Eur 800K per company.

    But Rishi's proposal is > Eur 800K for the biggest companies. (It is defined as selective because it only applies to some sectors)

    So it is therefore outwith the rules, unless you limit the benefit to the big hotels and airlines.
    It would be nice to see a link to this story, as I said before, I have the times hard copy and it isn't there.

    https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report-international/eu-eases-rules-more-on-government-handouts-for-virus-tax-relief

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1241300115094147072?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8546/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-looking-on-the-bright-side-another-decade-of-austerity-at-be/p7

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford
    Have we stopped to ask why we would want to give big companies and chains more than that in the first place? The crisis is for the little guy, right now.

    Companies like BA and the railways can be nationalised, as an alternative.
    No, the crisis is for everyone. Big or small, all companies are getting hammered. We're going to lose up to 10% of economic output in the next couple of quarters.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    MaxPB said:

    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Are the EU really banning part of the Chancellors rescue package?

    Interesting move.

    What is this?
    It seems to be a nonsense story briefed to the Times in order to stir up some anti-EU feeling.
    Entirely predictable I'm afraid. The Brexit evangelists are nothing if not exhibitionists. They'll feel that the virus crisis has stolen their limelight and are desperate to be centre of attention again.
    Then provide a link to denial of the story

    If true it a devastating own goal and will see any support for the EU collapse
    Dear oh dear.
    Please provide the denial then the issue is dealt with
    I'll let you in on a little secret, Big_G.... I don't think there is one. That's why he's just mouthing off about Brexiteers instead. :p
    And this is the problem with the EU

    It is so easy to believe the story and in the absence of a denial it must be assumed this is their position, and devastating for their remaining support in the UK
    If the EU had to deny every dubious claim about them promulgated by the British media they'd need a press department the size of the Chinese army.
    But this is important.

    Any idea the EU would block any part of the chancellor's proposals is outrageous and it does need confirmation that it will not interfere in UK policy re covid 19.

    Surely all the EU supporters on here can see how toxic for the EU this could become
    The issue is not breach but enforcement. Is the EU going to take enforcement proceedings? I don't see that from the article or from anywhere else. A man who breaks the speed limit taking someone to A&E breaks the law. The issue arises when he is punished for it. We are breaking the law but no one is, so far as I can see, minding.
    They did during the financial crisis and forced the government to sell Worldpay for a pittance. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that the EU would try and enforce the rules once all of this is over. It's one of the reasons leaving is the right decision.
    Something not being beyond the realms of possibility is not the same thing as it happening now. What The Times has done is written an undergraduate legal essay, pointing out to its readers the law, with no context as to the likelihood of enforcement.
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649

    Given the circumstances we find ourselves in I am going to take a slightly different approach to the review this week. As opposed to selecting a single subject to critique, I thought it would be more helpful to pick out five 5-star (IMO) hidden gems freely accessible online, which can be enjoyed at home.

    I've tried to mix it up a bit, taking in a classic kids TV series, an amazing speech, a great documentary, magnificent opera, and tip top pod.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51968653

    I'm sure some PBers can themselves suggest other things of interest.

    A 1960s low budget French hand puppet show...yeah ok Will, I think I will give it a miss thanks. And I can't imagine the generation of tik tok will be entertained by it.
    Oy, Hector's House was one of the must-sees of my childhood! I expect that Mr Gompertz is also of my vintage
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    To avert socialism, we must briefly become socialists. We must spend whatever it takes to save free market liberalism.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/20/boris-must-become-socialist-face-nationalising-entire-economy/

    It is certainly still not socialist enough for John McDonnell

    https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1241068378456043521?s=20
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    Next week: wisteria?
    Wisteria is easy... In August cut the stems back to five buds each, leaving any you intend to form new branches. Train as required. In January trim the same stems back to three buds. Otherwise leave well alone.
    "7 and 2" is the rule for wisteria.

    In the 7th month (July) cut stems down to the 7th bud. Then in the 2nd month (Feb) cut stems down to the 2nd bud.
    Three buds is better, more flowers, which a mature bush ought to be able to support.
    I think we should get into a heated nasty debate about this in PB style. Maybe criticise HYUFD for no discernible reason?
    What's the polling evidence?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    There are now more confirmed cases in New York City than in the United Kingdom.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    DougSeal said:

    MaxPB said:

    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Are the EU really banning part of the Chancellors rescue package?

    Interesting move.

    What is this?
    It seems to be a nonsense story briefed to the Times in order to stir up some anti-EU feeling.
    Entirely predictable I'm afraid. The Brexit evangelists are nothing if not exhibitionists. They'll feel that the virus crisis has stolen their limelight and are desperate to be centre of attention again.
    Then provide a link to denial of the story

    If true it a devastating own goal and will see any support for the EU collapse
    Dear oh dear.
    Please provide the denial then the issue is dealt with
    I'll let you in on a little secret, Big_G.... I don't think there is one. That's why he's just mouthing off about Brexiteers instead. :p
    And this is the problem with the EU

    It is so easy to believe the story and in the absence of a denial it must be assumed this is their position, and devastating for their remaining support in the UK
    If the EU had to deny every dubious claim about them promulgated by the British media they'd need a press department the size of the Chinese army.
    But this is important.

    Any idea the EU would block any part of the chancellor's proposals is outrageous and it does need confirmation that it will not interfere in UK policy re covid 19.

    Surely all the EU supporters on here can see how toxic for the EU this could become
    The issue is not breach but enforcement. Is the EU going to take enforcement proceedings? I don't see that from the article or from anywhere else. A man who breaks the speed limit taking someone to A&E breaks the law. The issue arises when he is punished for it. We are breaking the law but no one is, so far as I can see, minding.
    They did during the financial crisis and forced the government to sell Worldpay for a pittance. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that the EU would try and enforce the rules once all of this is over. It's one of the reasons leaving is the right decision.
    Something not being beyond the realms of possibility is not the same thing as it happening now. What The Times has done is written an undergraduate legal essay, pointing out to its readers the law, with no context as to the likelihood of enforcement.
    True, but it would be good to get the EU to commit not to chase countries who have taken extraordinary measures to save the economy. We didn't get that last time before nationalising the banks and it backfired as the government were forced to sell off valuable assets for no money. Once bitten and all that...
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Charles said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    Next week: wisteria?
    Wisteria is easy... In August cut the stems back to five buds each, leaving any you intend to form new branches. Train as required. In January trim the same stems back to three buds. Otherwise leave well alone.
    "7 and 2" is the rule for wisteria.

    In the 7th month (July) cut stems down to the 7th bud. Then in the 2nd month (Feb) cut stems down to the 2nd bud.
    Three buds is better, more flowers, which a mature bush ought to be able to support.
    I think we should get into a heated nasty debate about this in PB style. Maybe criticise HYUFD for no discernible reason?
    What's the polling evidence?
    What, on pruning wisteria? 52% For and 48% Against.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    felix said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Is a National Government really a possibility - and would it be a good thing?

    I am sure we all want the likes Richard Burgon and Dawn Butler having influence over the government strategy....
    Sir Kier Starmer and Lisa Nandy would be an asset to a national unity government imo.
    Even BJ hero Churchil had a better government with prominent Labour cabinet members.
    Nandy has gone right down in my estimate during the leadership race.

    In all honesty, we don't really have the lots of the likes of say a Steve Webb sitting on the opposition benches, somebody with really expert knowledge.
    I went to see Nandy speak about a month ago in a small intimate venue and she was very impressive. She really got why Labour lost, and she was not willing to “play to the room” just to get cheap applause. I haven’t seen much of the TV content, but she was honestly very impressive.
    I'd have agreed but she was very poor on the gender issue - not a problem unique to any party - the LDs are worse but in Labour it's causing ridiculous rifts and of course will leave the bulk of the population wondering WTF!
    Is 'poor on gender issues' code for 'not a transphobe'?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    I`ve been off line for a bit. Did we find out who JM1 is?

    And when was the last time we heard from our resident doomsday merchant. I presume he hasn't got an internet access in his nuclear bomb shelter.
    Oh, you suspect JM1 is SeanT?
    No, just saying, we haven't heard from Mr Doomsday.
    Presumably because, despite having spun us all the yarn of having had the virus, he is now holed up in some Cornish shack with his family petrified of still getting it.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    I haven't seen anyone mention this yet but, erm, millenials being asked to behave in order to save boomers and gammons might stick in the throat somewhat.

    They might reasonably point out that the oldies screwed this country over with Brexit.

    So the fact that most of them are so gracious is testament to what a fabulous generation they are. I mean it. The shits are the likes of Peter Hitchens and Piers Morgan.

    What an idiot you are. Milleniums screwed themselves over Brexit by not bothering to vote. Stop trying to sow discord with your miserable dreary efforts to politicise everything.
    Milleniums are a bunch of whining lazy no mark woke losers, wanting everything for nothing.
    Do you like anyone?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709
    Stocky said:

    Charles said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    Next week: wisteria?
    Wisteria is easy... In August cut the stems back to five buds each, leaving any you intend to form new branches. Train as required. In January trim the same stems back to three buds. Otherwise leave well alone.
    "7 and 2" is the rule for wisteria.

    In the 7th month (July) cut stems down to the 7th bud. Then in the 2nd month (Feb) cut stems down to the 2nd bud.
    Three buds is better, more flowers, which a mature bush ought to be able to support.
    I think we should get into a heated nasty debate about this in PB style. Maybe criticise HYUFD for no discernible reason?
    What's the polling evidence?
    What, on pruning wisteria? 52% For and 48% Against.
    We should pull it out by the roots. It's the will of the people. We should never have planted it in the first place.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Must be spring. Solar energy has topped 20% of supply for the first time in a while. Indeed, coupled with the strong winds, low demand and high water flows, nearly 60% of electricity is being generated from non-carbon or nuclear sources, helped somewhat by lowered demand.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    edited March 2020
    This is a really interesting, thought-provoking article. How this government and others handle the aftermath of the crisis will shape the world for decades to come. They better make the right choices!!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    I haven't seen anyone mention this yet but, erm, millenials being asked to behave in order to save boomers and gammons might stick in the throat somewhat.

    They might reasonably point out that the oldies screwed this country over with Brexit.

    So the fact that most of them are so gracious is testament to what a fabulous generation they are. I mean it. The shits are the likes of Peter Hitchens and Piers Morgan.

    What an idiot you are. Milleniums screwed themselves over Brexit by not bothering to vote. Stop trying to sow discord with your miserable dreary efforts to politicise everything.
    Milleniums are a bunch of whining lazy no mark woke losers, wanting everything for nothing.
    Do you like anyone?
    To misquote Elizabeth Peters, Malcolm is quite impartial and despises people equally.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    Next week: wisteria?
    Wisteria is easy... In August cut the stems back to five buds each, leaving any you intend to form new branches. Train as required. In January trim the same stems back to three buds. Otherwise leave well alone.
    "7 and 2" is the rule for wisteria.

    In the 7th month (July) cut stems down to the 7th bud. Then in the 2nd month (Feb) cut stems down to the 2nd bud.
    Three buds is better, more flowers, which a mature bush ought to be able to support.
    I think we should get into a heated nasty debate about this in PB style. Maybe criticise HYUFD for no discernible reason?
    He’d be telling the bush to prune itself and get over it.
    Or advocating the use of broth as fertiliser
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    MaxPB said:

    DougSeal said:

    MaxPB said:

    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Are the EU really banning part of the Chancellors rescue package?

    Interesting move.

    What is this?
    It seems to be a nonsense story briefed to the Times in order to stir up some anti-EU feeling.
    Entirely predictable I'm afraid. The Brexit evangelists are nothing if not exhibitionists. They'll feel that the virus crisis has stolen their limelight and are desperate to be centre of attention again.
    Then provide a link to denial of the story

    If true it a devastating own goal and will see any support for the EU collapse
    Dear oh dear.
    Please provide the denial then the issue is dealt with
    I'll let you in on a little secret, Big_G.... I don't think there is one. That's why he's just mouthing off about Brexiteers instead. :p
    And this is the problem with the EU

    It is so easy to believe the story and in the absence of a denial it must be assumed this is their position, and devastating for their remaining support in the UK
    If the EU had to deny every dubious claim about them promulgated by the British media they'd need a press department the size of the Chinese army.
    But this is important.

    Any idea the EU would block any part of the chancellor's proposals is outrageous and it does need confirmation that it will not interfere in UK policy re covid 19.

    Surely all the EU supporters on here can see how toxic for the EU this could become
    The issue is not breach but enforcement. Is the EU going to take enforcement proceedings? I don't see that from the article or from anywhere else. A man who breaks the speed limit taking someone to A&E breaks the law. The issue arises when he is punished for it. We are breaking the law but no one is, so far as I can see, minding.
    They did during the financial crisis and forced the government to sell Worldpay for a pittance. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that the EU would try and enforce the rules once all of this is over. It's one of the reasons leaving is the right decision.
    Something not being beyond the realms of possibility is not the same thing as it happening now. What The Times has done is written an undergraduate legal essay, pointing out to its readers the law, with no context as to the likelihood of enforcement.
    True, but it would be good to get the EU to commit not to chase countries who have taken extraordinary measures to save the economy. We didn't get that last time before nationalising the banks and it backfired as the government were forced to sell off valuable assets for no money. Once bitten and all that...
    Ideally they should. But that moves the goalpost. The Times clickbaity headline suggested that there were active attempts by the EU to undermine the Chancellor, rather than soberly pointing out that his measures are technically (and technically is all it is until they are enforced) in breach of EU rules.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited March 2020
    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    I`ve been off line for a bit. Did we find out who JM1 is?

    And when was the last time we heard from our resident doomsday merchant. I presume he hasn't got an internet access in his nuclear bomb shelter.
    Oh, you suspect JM1 is SeanT?
    No, just saying, we haven't heard from Mr Doomsday.
    Presumably because, despite having spun us all the yarn of having had the virus, he is now holed up in some Cornish shack with his family petrified of still getting it.
    I don`t understand being petrified of getting the virus, assuming you are under 70 and in good health. I`m not worried. Not even slightly.

    (If I suddenly stop posting please disregard the above post.)
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited March 2020
    Deleted - posted twice.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    I`ve been off line for a bit. Did we find out who JM1 is?

    And when was the last time we heard from our resident doomsday merchant. I presume he hasn't got an internet access in his nuclear bomb shelter.
    Oh, you suspect JM1 is SeanT?
    No, just saying, we haven't heard from Mr Doomsday.
    Presumably because, despite having spun us all the yarn of having had the virus, he is now holed up in some Cornish shack with his family petrified of still getting it.
    I don`t understand being petrified of getting the virus, assuming you are under 70 and in good health. I`m not worried. Not even slightly.

    (If I suddenly stop posting please disregard the above post.)
    I don't know how old you are, but unless you are under 20 you should be very concerned. The rates of hospitalization of people even in their 40s is significant, the difference with them compared to the oldies is that with the correct treatment most will to make it through.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    I`ve been off line for a bit. Did we find out who JM1 is?

    And when was the last time we heard from our resident doomsday merchant. I presume he hasn't got an internet access in his nuclear bomb shelter.
    Oh, you suspect JM1 is SeanT?
    No, just saying, we haven't heard from Mr Doomsday.
    Presumably because, despite having spun us all the yarn of having had the virus, he is now holed up in some Cornish shack with his family petrified of still getting it.
    I don`t understand being petrified of getting the virus, assuming you are under 70 and in good health. I`m not worried. Not even slightly.

    (If I suddenly stop posting please disregard the above post.)
    I don't know how old you are, but unless you are under 20 you should be very concerned. The rates of hospitalization of people even in their 40s is significant, the difference with them compared to the oldies is that with the correct treatment most will to make it through.
    I`m 55 and fit as fuck
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    edited March 2020

    Monkeys said:

    Monkeys said:

    This whole thing could have second waves, and other countries getting their peaks later, and countries will want to limit movement for long after until it becomes part of the psyche. This morning I'm wondering which will be the first party to come up with a "progressive" low-immigration policy. People won't be moving about for a long time after this. You could come up with a Greta Thunberg argument or something that a smaller, more local world is more environmentally friendly.

    If restricting the movement of people is the aim, focusing on reducing tourism and business travel would have more relevance.
    And travel to visit family. But also, this is what pandemics do - they make people more anti-immigration. People are going to get used to controlling borders. One thing that's amusing me about all this is that people that were previously remainers have often been very vocal about shutting the country down and restricting movement, and going WHY haven't we closed all the schools and shut down all the flights YESTERDAY? This will impact our minds long-term I think. It's not about aims, it's about outcomes.
    Restricting the kind of movement that spreads pandemics also means things like reducing commuting. Political borders and migration are a very minor aspect of it.

    Do you think the long-term response in the USA will be restrictions on movement between states?
    I'm not talking about the general public surviving a pandemic with long periods of lockdown and many deaths, getting their calculators out and working out their new moral aesthetics through accountancy. We're controlling our borders now, some of the demands for the most strict measures are coming from people who were most ardently Remain to the point of wanting a People's Vote, and psychologically fears of infection are linked to desire for lower immigration.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170501094306.htm


    I'm not making a moral claim there as to whether it's a bad thing to want lower immigration because there's some psychological reasons behind it btw. I also think that after this, everyone will want a smaller simpler world. Which is maybe what people wanted when they voted for Brexit.

    QUICK EDIT: For clarity, "No" to the thing about the states.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Cyclefree said:


    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    How is your daughter coping?
    Yesterday was, understandably, quite an emotional day for her. For her team. For us all. It’s a family business now.

    The pub/restaurant is right in the centre of the village - everyone goes there to meet, chat, share gossip,information, look out for each other. A lot of business gets done there - it’s not just a drinking and eating venue. So it will be missed and my daughter will find the social isolation by contrast with her normal every day busyness very hard - harder than for me, I suspect.

    She has a good business brain though and a toughness which will help. I am so proud of her.

    She has already started a takeaway / delivery service - including for some essential goods - targeted on the isolated so as a social service as much as anything. She has volunteers to help. She will look to see how the latest proposals will help and she will need to have a conversation with her landlord about the rent.

    The biggest difficulty is not knowing the timescale. If this goes on for a year, the decision is a very different one to a 3-month shutdown. And no-one knows.

    What breaks my heart is that a few weeks ago she was talking excitedly about various plans she had to expand business / had prepared lots of varied menus - they were changed every week - and had plans to go into the holiday rental / B&B market. All on hold and very possibly ended now. All that hope crushed - or so it feels like. So I am going to do whatever I can to support her.

    I have also urged my 2 sons, who were job-hunting to look at those supermarket jobs. Any work is better than none. This is no time for snobbery about graduate jobs, frankly.

    Best wishes to @Charles for his Dad, @MaxPB and @GideonWise.
    It sounds less desolate than last week at any rate. I hope your daughter's delicious meals win her a whole new customer base for when times return to normal.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    I`ve been off line for a bit. Did we find out who JM1 is?

    And when was the last time we heard from our resident doomsday merchant. I presume he hasn't got an internet access in his nuclear bomb shelter.
    Oh, you suspect JM1 is SeanT?
    No, just saying, we haven't heard from Mr Doomsday.
    Presumably because, despite having spun us all the yarn of having had the virus, he is now holed up in some Cornish shack with his family petrified of still getting it.
    It was rather strange that having suggested that him, his wife and her mother had all been infected he had subsequently stockpiled huge amounts of sanitizer, gloves and masks.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    I`ve been off line for a bit. Did we find out who JM1 is?

    And when was the last time we heard from our resident doomsday merchant. I presume he hasn't got an internet access in his nuclear bomb shelter.
    Oh, you suspect JM1 is SeanT?
    No, just saying, we haven't heard from Mr Doomsday.
    Presumably because, despite having spun us all the yarn of having had the virus, he is now holed up in some Cornish shack with his family petrified of still getting it.
    I don`t understand being petrified of getting the virus, assuming you are under 70 and in good health. I`m not worried. Not even slightly.

    (If I suddenly stop posting please disregard the above post.)
    I don't know how old you are, but unless you are under 20 you should be very concerned. The rates of hospitalization of people even in their 40s is significant, the difference with them compared to the oldies is that with the correct treatment most will to make it through.
    I`m 55 and fit as fuck
    The fit did doesn't appear to make that much difference in terms of needing hospitalization for younger people. If your body has a particular reaction to it, you will be in trouble.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Stocky said:

    Charles said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    Next week: wisteria?
    Wisteria is easy... In August cut the stems back to five buds each, leaving any you intend to form new branches. Train as required. In January trim the same stems back to three buds. Otherwise leave well alone.
    "7 and 2" is the rule for wisteria.

    In the 7th month (July) cut stems down to the 7th bud. Then in the 2nd month (Feb) cut stems down to the 2nd bud.
    Three buds is better, more flowers, which a mature bush ought to be able to support.
    I think we should get into a heated nasty debate about this in PB style. Maybe criticise HYUFD for no discernible reason?
    What's the polling evidence?
    What, on pruning wisteria? 52% For and 48% Against.
    We should pull it out by the roots. It's the will of the people. We should never have planted it in the first place.
    Very mean. I have had wisteria at all of my homes, except the flat on the Archway Road, often transplanted from one to another. Only two have I lived there long enough to really enjoy it, but that first week of May each year makes it all worthwhile.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    IshmaelZ said:

    ""The government’s crisis communications strategy could not be going worse if it was being led by the last speaker of a dead language, with Typhoid Mary on bass."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/20/boris-johnson-covid-19-prime-minister-brexit

    Marina Hyde. Harsh, but very funny.

    She apparently hasn't heard what Trump has been saying, it could be a lot worse.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Some people are even bigger partisan bell-ends than you could ever imagine. Some clearly would literally be cheering on Hitler in the WWII, given some of his socialist policies.

    And you compare that to the real grown-ups like Dougie Alexander who used to run the Labour Party.

    https://twitter.com/D_G_Alexander/status/1239491903386763264?s=20
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    I`ve been off line for a bit. Did we find out who JM1 is?

    And when was the last time we heard from our resident doomsday merchant. I presume he hasn't got an internet access in his nuclear bomb shelter.
    Oh, you suspect JM1 is SeanT?
    No, just saying, we haven't heard from Mr Doomsday.
    Presumably because, despite having spun us all the yarn of having had the virus, he is now holed up in some Cornish shack with his family petrified of still getting it.
    I don`t understand being petrified of getting the virus, assuming you are under 70 and in good health. I`m not worried. Not even slightly.

    (If I suddenly stop posting please disregard the above post.)
    I don't know how old you are, but unless you are under 20 you should be very concerned. The rates of hospitalization of people even in their 40s is significant, the difference with them compared to the oldies is that with the correct treatment most will to make it through.
    I`m 55 and fit as fuck
    Makes little difference. Young fit people are getting hospitalised with serious pneumonia
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    IanB2 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Are the EU really banning part of the Chancellors rescue package?

    Interesting move.

    What is this?
    It seems to be a nonsense story briefed to the Times in order to stir up some anti-EU feeling.
    Entirely predictable I'm afraid. The Brexit evangelists are nothing if not exhibitionists. They'll feel that the virus crisis has stolen their limelight and are desperate to be centre of attention again.
    Then provide a link to denial of the story

    If true it a devastating own goal and will see any support for the EU collapse
    Dear oh dear.
    Please provide the denial then the issue is dealt with
    The story doesn't make sense in its own terms because it says that "selective tax advantages" will be allowed.
    Selective tax advantages up to Eur 800K per company.

    But Rishi's proposal is > Eur 800K for the biggest companies. (It is defined as selective because it only applies to some sectors)

    So it is therefore outwith the rules, unless you limit the benefit to the big hotels and airlines.
    It would be nice to see a link to this story, as I said before, I have the times hard copy and it isn't there.

    https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report-international/eu-eases-rules-more-on-government-handouts-for-virus-tax-relief

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1241300115094147072?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8546/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-looking-on-the-bright-side-another-decade-of-austerity-at-be/p7

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford
    Have we stopped to ask why we would want to give big companies and chains more than that in the first place? The crisis is for the little guy, right now.

    Companies like BA and the railways can be nationalised, as an alternative.
    Because if they go under it has a bigger impact on the economy.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    I`ve been off line for a bit. Did we find out who JM1 is?

    And when was the last time we heard from our resident doomsday merchant. I presume he hasn't got an internet access in his nuclear bomb shelter.
    Oh, you suspect JM1 is SeanT?
    No, just saying, we haven't heard from Mr Doomsday.
    Presumably because, despite having spun us all the yarn of having had the virus, he is now holed up in some Cornish shack with his family petrified of still getting it.
    It was rather strange that having suggested that him, his wife and her mother had all been infected he had subsequently stockpiled huge amounts of sanitizer, gloves and masks.
    Not once you realise that he gets his kicks from being the centre of attention and is a professional at making up stories for people’s entertainment.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    ydoethur said:

    Must be spring. Solar energy has topped 20% of supply for the first time in a while. Indeed, coupled with the strong winds, low demand and high water flows, nearly 60% of electricity is being generated from non-carbon or nuclear sources, helped somewhat by lowered demand.

    62% if you include hydro and biomass. We are sending energy to France at the moment as well.

  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    This is a really interesting, thought-provoking article. How this government and others handle the aftermath of the crisis will shape the world for decades to come. They better make the right choices!!

    The days when this or any other UK Govt shaped the world vanished long ago
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Charles said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    Next week: wisteria?
    Wisteria is easy... In August cut the stems back to five buds each, leaving any you intend to form new branches. Train as required. In January trim the same stems back to three buds. Otherwise leave well alone.
    "7 and 2" is the rule for wisteria.

    In the 7th month (July) cut stems down to the 7th bud. Then in the 2nd month (Feb) cut stems down to the 2nd bud.
    Three buds is better, more flowers, which a mature bush ought to be able to support.
    I think we should get into a heated nasty debate about this in PB style. Maybe criticise HYUFD for no discernible reason?
    What's the polling evidence?
    What, on pruning wisteria? 52% For and 48% Against.
    We should pull it out by the roots. It's the will of the people. We should never have planted it in the first place.
    Very mean. I have had wisteria at all of my homes, except the flat on the Archway Road, often transplanted from one to another. Only two have I lived there long enough to really enjoy it, but that first week of May each year makes it all worthwhile.
    One of my favourite towns, Petworth, has an amazing house in the Square with a vast mature Wisteria. I hope it is still there at any rate, it was glorious.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    MaxPB said:

    I'd honestly love for the EU to start proceedings against the government for breaching state aid rules. I very much doubt they will though.

    Why would you love that?

    (Agreed that there is no chance of it.)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Charles said:

    IanB2 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Are the EU really banning part of the Chancellors rescue package?

    Interesting move.

    What is this?
    It seems to be a nonsense story briefed to the Times in order to stir up some anti-EU feeling.
    Entirely predictable I'm afraid. The Brexit evangelists are nothing if not exhibitionists. They'll feel that the virus crisis has stolen their limelight and are desperate to be centre of attention again.
    Then provide a link to denial of the story

    If true it a devastating own goal and will see any support for the EU collapse
    Dear oh dear.
    Please provide the denial then the issue is dealt with
    The story doesn't make sense in its own terms because it says that "selective tax advantages" will be allowed.
    Selective tax advantages up to Eur 800K per company.

    But Rishi's proposal is > Eur 800K for the biggest companies. (It is defined as selective because it only applies to some sectors)

    So it is therefore outwith the rules, unless you limit the benefit to the big hotels and airlines.
    It would be nice to see a link to this story, as I said before, I have the times hard copy and it isn't there.

    https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report-international/eu-eases-rules-more-on-government-handouts-for-virus-tax-relief

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1241300115094147072?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8546/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-looking-on-the-bright-side-another-decade-of-austerity-at-be/p7

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford
    Have we stopped to ask why we would want to give big companies and chains more than that in the first place? The crisis is for the little guy, right now.

    Companies like BA and the railways can be nationalised, as an alternative.
    Because if they go under it has a bigger impact on the economy.
    Which large companies that it wouldn’t be possible to nationalise are about to go under despite a cash grant from the government of almost a £million?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Some people are even bigger partisan bell-ends than you could ever imagine. Some clearly would literally be cheering on Hitler in the WWII, given some of his socialist policies.

    And you compare that to the real grown-ups like Dougie Alexander who used to run the Labour Party.
    Sometimes you wonder who would play the role of Lord Haw-Haw in the present day - and sometimes you're sure!
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    ydoethur said:

    Must be spring. Solar energy has topped 20% of supply for the first time in a while. Indeed, coupled with the strong winds, low demand and high water flows, nearly 60% of electricity is being generated from non-carbon or nuclear sources, helped somewhat by lowered demand.

    62% if you include hydro and biomass. We are sending energy to France at the moment as well.

    Also the 62% doesn't include nuclear. Only wind and solar.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited March 2020

    Some people are even bigger partisan bell-ends than you could ever imagine. Some clearly would literally be cheering on Hitler in the WWII, given some of his socialist policies.

    And you compare that to the real grown-ups like Dougie Alexander who used to run the Labour Party.
    In fairness, that seems just a little unlikely given Hitler attacked the unambiguously socialist USSR.

    I will admit Oswald Mosley as an ex-Labour minister and John Beckett as an ex-Labour MP were dazzling exceptions.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Nearly time for the daily government update. Why are we still doing these in person? Surely that isn't a good idea.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    DougSeal said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Had to renew my passport.
    Went into main post office on Monday afternoon.
    They took the digital photo, e mail address and mobile number.
    It was tracked all the way and I was informed at each stage.
    TNT delivered it today.
    Good service, I would recommend it.

    Also for those who care , it was a dark blue Brirish one.

    Lovely. What are you going to use it for?
    ID as my Driving licence is still a paper one.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,358

    Charles said:
    No idea why you should attack a Cabinet Minister for getting it right and helping to propel the Govt to act.

    I think we all know by now that the Govt acted way too slowly and believed one subset of scientists instead of having the humility to listen to others including from overseas. The net result of that will probably be a massive surge in cases and deaths in the short term. But at least they are gradually improving.

    I also don't know why anyone is very surprised. Johnson won a great victory against the most unelectable leader in Labour's history - a man so toxic that even his own MPs deserted him.

    As I've mentioned before, it's not that Boris believed one subset of scientists, it's that he made the wrong choice of the scientifically-based options placed before him. He gambled on the high-risk, low-cost option, and lost. He screwed up the single most important decision, and then he compounded his mistake by dithering afterwards. Other than Trump, the Ayatollahs and possibly the Dutch prime minister Rutte, it's hard to think of a leader who has dealt more ineptly with the pandemic.
    Tory cheapskate with t
    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Are the EU really banning part of the Chancellors rescue package?

    Interesting move.

    What is this?
    It seems to be a nonsense story briefed to the Times in order to stir up some anti-EU feeling.
    Entirely predictable I'm afraid. The Brexit evangelists are nothing if not exhibitionists. They'll feel that the virus crisis has stolen their limelight and are desperate to be centre of attention again.
    Then provide a link to denial of the story

    If true it a devastating own goal and will see any support for the EU collapse
    I think it's true, but irrelevant

    Essentially some bureaucrat upped the limits on state aid to Eur 800K

    But there is the exemption process to approve anything outside the rules (it took Denmark 24 hours). Now I don't see why you should need to get approval, but hey, we're leaving.

    But the journo is shit stirring
    Thought we had left and Brexit was done, were the thousands of posts on here praising nay revering Boris for getting Brexit done a pack of lies.
    During the transition period EU rules still apply. But of course you know that.
    Just pointing out the horse manure on here about how BREXIT IS DONE being a fantasy of the idiotic leavers on here looking through their rose tinted specs. If it walks like an EU member and quacks like an EU member ...............
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Stocky said:

    Charles said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    Next week: wisteria?
    Wisteria is easy... In August cut the stems back to five buds each, leaving any you intend to form new branches. Train as required. In January trim the same stems back to three buds. Otherwise leave well alone.
    "7 and 2" is the rule for wisteria.

    In the 7th month (July) cut stems down to the 7th bud. Then in the 2nd month (Feb) cut stems down to the 2nd bud.
    Three buds is better, more flowers, which a mature bush ought to be able to support.
    I think we should get into a heated nasty debate about this in PB style. Maybe criticise HYUFD for no discernible reason?
    What's the polling evidence?
    What, on pruning wisteria? 52% For and 48% Against.
    But you've combined the people who believe in pruning to the 2nd bud and those who believe in the 7th bud approach.

    Clearly under FPTP the 48% would win.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,358
    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    I haven't seen anyone mention this yet but, erm, millenials being asked to behave in order to save boomers and gammons might stick in the throat somewhat.

    They might reasonably point out that the oldies screwed this country over with Brexit.

    So the fact that most of them are so gracious is testament to what a fabulous generation they are. I mean it. The shits are the likes of Peter Hitchens and Piers Morgan.

    What an idiot you are. Milleniums screwed themselves over Brexit by not bothering to vote. Stop trying to sow discord with your miserable dreary efforts to politicise everything.
    Milleniums are a bunch of whining lazy no mark woke losers, wanting everything for nothing.
    Do you like anyone?
    Certainly not whining jessies of which the UK is full of. I long for the days when men were men and beer was 2 bob a pint.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Stocky said:

    Question: my hairdresser closed yesterday - not because the government told them to, but voluntarily. Am I correct that they won`t be able to access the 80% of salary deal for the employees because they closed voluntarily?

    I would think they will. Perhaps they closed BECAUSE of the package even?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Here we go, its the B-Team today.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    ydoethur said:

    Some people are even bigger partisan bell-ends than you could ever imagine. Some clearly would literally be cheering on Hitler in the WWII, given some of his socialist policies.

    And you compare that to the real grown-ups like Dougie Alexander who used to run the Labour Party.
    In fairness, that seems just a little unlikely given Hitler attacked the unambiguously socialist USSR.

    I will admit Oswald Mosley as an ex-Labour minister and John Beckett as an ex-Labour MP were dazzling exceptions.
    The Communist Party of Great Britain (at least) was dead in favour of the Nazi-Soviet pact until, you know, the whole Operation Barbarossa thing. Until then it campaiged for peace, and described the war as the product of imperialism on both sides, in which the working class had no side to take
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    Nearly time for the daily government update. Why are we still doing these in person? Surely that isn't a good idea.

    I'm amazed they are still* letting journalists film outside No. 10. It is a pointless thing to be doing at the best of times, and right now it is surely irresponsible.

    * Certainly yesterday there were reports from there.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Question: my hairdresser closed yesterday - not because the government told them to, but voluntarily. Am I correct that they won`t be able to access the 80% of salary deal for the employees because they closed voluntarily?

    I would think they will. Perhaps they closed BECAUSE of the package even?
    I haven`t asked, but I suspect that is correct, i.e. they closed because of the deal thinking they would qualify. So, do you think that the gov package covers all businesses that voluntarily pause trading because of the virus? Any business?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Some people are even bigger partisan bell-ends than you could ever imagine. Some clearly would literally be cheering on Hitler in the WWII, given some of his socialist policies.

    And you compare that to the real grown-ups like Dougie Alexander who used to run the Labour Party.

    https://twitter.com/D_G_Alexander/status/1239491903386763264?s=20
    In fairness to all the leaders of the UK countries they have all played this with a straight bat - even when there were slightly different approaches they shut down attempts to play Peter against Paul.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Food production of key products up 50%!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Clear message today, stop being self centred tw@ts you inconsiderate arseholes who are hoarding food...
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    I haven't seen anyone mention this yet but, erm, millenials being asked to behave in order to save boomers and gammons might stick in the throat somewhat.

    They might reasonably point out that the oldies screwed this country over with Brexit.

    So the fact that most of them are so gracious is testament to what a fabulous generation they are. I mean it. The shits are the likes of Peter Hitchens and Piers Morgan.

    What an idiot you are. Milleniums screwed themselves over Brexit by not bothering to vote. Stop trying to sow discord with your miserable dreary efforts to politicise everything.
    Milleniums are a bunch of whining lazy no mark woke losers, wanting everything for nothing.
    Do you like anyone?
    Certainly not whining jessies of which the UK is full of. I long for the days when men were men and beer was 2 bob a pint.
    And women were grateful?
  • Monkeys said:

    Monkeys said:

    Monkeys said:

    This whole thing could have second waves, and other countries getting their peaks later, and countries will want to limit movement for long after until it becomes part of the psyche. This morning I'm wondering which will be the first party to come up with a "progressive" low-immigration policy. People won't be moving about for a long time after this. You could come up with a Greta Thunberg argument or something that a smaller, more local world is more environmentally friendly.

    If restricting the movement of people is the aim, focusing on reducing tourism and business travel would have more relevance.
    And travel to visit family. But also, this is what pandemics do - they make people more anti-immigration. People are going to get used to controlling borders. One thing that's amusing me about all this is that people that were previously remainers have often been very vocal about shutting the country down and restricting movement, and going WHY haven't we closed all the schools and shut down all the flights YESTERDAY? This will impact our minds long-term I think. It's not about aims, it's about outcomes.
    Restricting the kind of movement that spreads pandemics also means things like reducing commuting. Political borders and migration are a very minor aspect of it.

    Do you think the long-term response in the USA will be restrictions on movement between states?
    I'm not talking about the general public surviving a pandemic with long periods of lockdown and many deaths, getting their calculators out and working out their new moral aesthetics through accountancy. We're controlling our borders now, some of the demands for the most strict measures are coming from people who were most ardently Remain to the point of wanting a People's Vote, and psychologically fears of infection are linked to desire for lower immigration.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170501094306.htm


    I'm not making a moral claim there as to whether it's a bad thing to want lower immigration because there's some psychological reasons behind it btw. I also think that after this, everyone will want a smaller simpler world. Which is maybe what people wanted when they voted for Brexit.

    QUICK EDIT: For clarity, "No" to the thing about the states.
    It's not immigration that has been spreading this virus; it's air travel and cruises.
This discussion has been closed.