All French ski resorts have just been closed. Not a surprise.
A full refund will be given in the form of a credit against a holiday next year.
Surely they have to give you your money back (not a credit) if they can't fulfill their part of the contract?
Jesus wept Benpointer...we need to give companies a break.....
I had an air trip and car hire in Italy early April...I'm not claiming back....these are businesses that employ people who have mortgages....times have changed
Let's stop being so fucking selfish...hashtag
good luck hoping that , greedy grasping low life's everywhere will be trying to make out of it, big amount of people would stiff you rather than be decent. We will see the mettle of people in this and UK will be found wanting in many cases for sure, the me me me attitude in UK is pretty dire.
Blimey, I'm being accused of being a 'greedy grasping lowlife' for wanting a refund (for our booked and fully paid for transantic QM2 crossing) rather than a 'future cruise credit'.
Anyone know when, if I took the credit, I might be able to use it? Will the parent company Carnival still be solvent? How much is travel insurance to the US going to be next year?
Greedy grasping lowlife I may be too, but I took out an annual travel insurance policy with the AA underwritten by AXA to include disruption. It was still available on Wednesday last week.
Viking are offering 125% credit or a full refund for cancelled cruises. My view is take the cash or pray the Russian credit lines continue unhindered.
I can't afford to lose the value of a 12 grand holiday particularly as my self-employed earning potential is likely to fall through the floor over the coming weeks.
A word of caution on travel insurance... mine says they will pay up if we have to cancel because "the Foreign and Commonwealth Office issue a directive advising against all, or all but essential travel to your trip destination because of an earthquake, fire, flood, or hurricane." No mention of pandemic.
Also @malcolmg - saw your response, that's fine, appreciate your comment wasn't directed at me, apols if I over-reacted.
Definitely take the cash!
Would you lend money to Carnival for one year at a 25% interest rate right now?
I wouldn't - and you are taking a worse risk as an unsecured creditor
Im sure they will be offering targeted discounts to get old customers back anyway - which are unlikely to be available to voucher holders. And cruises might not happen even in a years time. This is a no brainer.
Its amusing watching people lose what's left of their minds on here.
The idea any PM, let alone a Tory PM - or the CSO or CMO are hatching a plan to kill off their elderly voters is the most bonkers thing ever.
Thinking they give a hoot for elderly is the lunatic thing, the PM wants to come out a hero and that is his only concern , your granny popping her clogs will be of no concern to him.
You ascribe a peculiar callousness to politicians that I can only put down to your being solely exposed to them north of the border, malcy.
We have a kinder, gentler politics down here.
Mark, afraid not, it is being under the yoke of those southern politicians and their lickspittle sockpuppets up here that has given me such a jaundiced view of politicians
Given the sweeping nature of that, perhaps you don't like politics, rather than don't like politicians?
I thought posters may be interested in my experience of the Wales NHS last night. I saw my doctor last thursday about an abcess and it was agreed that as I had had two courses of antibiotics over another matter, the abcess would be treated with cream.
However by last night it had become very 'angry' so I went at 8.30pm to our local hospital minor injury unit and was triaged by a nurse. I had a temperature and clear indications the abcess was infected. I saw the sister who said I needed to see a doctor tonight and she phoned the main hospital out of hours to arrange an appointment
Some time lapsed when she returned to say she was just about to arrange the appointment only to be told that half an hour earlier an instruction had been received that no one with a temperature could be seen by the doctor without the doctor personally triaging the patient. Now this follows a nursing sister confirming to them the reason for the urgent need, but there was no way through and I returned home to wait the doctors phone call
At 11.30pm the doctor rang me and made an appointment for me to be seen by her at 12.00 midnight. The hospital out of hours is in the same place as the A & E and the waiting time in A & E was 3 hours, it was busy but not more than I expected
At 12.30 am I saw the doctor who immediately precribed a 7 day course of antibiotics and told me to ring back in the morning if I was feeling worse and they would admit me to lance the abcess and put me on IV antibiotics. She was lovely and so kind and I returned home with the antibiotics, taking one immediately and going to bed at about 2.30am
I hope posters do not mind my post but the lessons I learnt are that even those genuinely ill without the virus are having to jump through extraordinary hoops to get the medical attention they need. The system is beng overwhelmed and eveyone in the NHS from reception staff to surgeons need our understanding and patience in this worse peacetime crisis in living memory
And just a point, at both the minor injury unit, the A & E and the Out of Hours not one person, public or professionals were wearing masks other than a young child and his parents in Out of Hours Care
And as I seem to be responding to the antibiotic I will not be going into hospital today at least.
And finally I would just say to all posters, the fear and real worry especially in the elderly, is ill served by some trying to make a case for killing off the elderly and the idiotic idea it is govenment policy.
As someone in the highest risk group on age and underlying conditions I appeal for less politics and more compassion please, and we will get through this in time
Just in a Costa at an out-of-town retail park in Newcastle. It’s packed, nobody is wearing gloves, nobody is wearing a mask.
Neither am I, to be fair.
Wifey has just come back from Asda Thornaby. Described it as being "Christmas Eve" in there - people frantically buying everything, showing past each other, blocking, the whole Jingle All The Way experience.
In fact, the individual countries inside the EU are looking after themselves. See Germany refusing to share medical supplies, for example.
Could that have something to do with them all being sovereign countries in a membership club rather than ruled by a central elite of faceless bureaucrats issuing diktats from Brussels?
In fact, the individual countries inside the EU are looking after themselves. See Germany refusing to share medical supplies, for example.
Could that have something to do with them all being sovereign countries in a membership club rather than ruled by a central elite of faceless bureaucrats issuing diktats from Brussels?
Probably, but I was replying to a comment (which you edited out so you can't see the context) saying that we will be disadvantaged in the production of respirators somehow by not being members of the EU.
Tbh even as a signed up Remainer Guardianista, I didn't bother reading it.
The roll-out rate of a non-existent vaccine hardly seems very important at the moment. I posted it on here for laughs.
Roy Lilly former NHS manager and often wheeled out commentator and I think at one time an active conservative said on Sky this morning that when it comes to ventilators the US will manufacture for themselves, NZ is the Southern Hemispheres prime supplier and the EU will look after themselves as a direct consequence of the UK no longer being a member. Not wanting to start another brexit debate post the comment purely for info.
In fact, the individual countries inside the EU are looking after themselves. See Germany refusing to share medical supplies, for example.
As I would expect them to do
So whether or not we are in the EU makes no difference at all.
Just in a Costa at an out-of-town retail park in Newcastle. It’s packed, nobody is wearing gloves, nobody is wearing a mask.
Neither am I, to be fair.
Wifey has just come back from Asda Thornaby. Described it as being "Christmas Eve" in there - people frantically buying everything, showing past each other, blocking, the whole Jingle All The Way experience.
Sunday is an awful day to go to a supermarket even in normal times.
All French ski resorts have just been closed. Not a surprise.
A full refund will be given in the form of a credit against a holiday next year.
Surely they have to give you your money back (not a credit) if they can't fulfill their part of the contract?
Jesus wept Benpointer...we need to give companies a break.....
I had an air trip and car hire in Italy early April...I'm not claiming back....these are businesses that employ people who have mortgages....times have changed
Let's stop being so fucking selfish...hashtag
good luck hoping that , greedy grasping low life's everywhere will be trying to make out of it, big amount of people would stiff you rather than be decent. We will see the mettle of people in this and UK will be found wanting in many cases for sure, the me me me attitude in UK is pretty dire.
Blimey, I'm being accused of being a 'greedy grasping lowlife' for wanting a refund (for our booked and fully paid for transantic QM2 crossing) rather than a 'future cruise credit'.
Anyone know when, if I took the credit, I might be able to use it? Will the parent company Carnival still be solvent? How much is travel insurance to the US going to be next year?
Greedy grasping lowlife I may be too, but I took out an annual travel insurance policy with the AA underwritten by AXA to include disruption. It was still available on Wednesday last week.
Viking are offering 125% credit or a full refund for cancelled cruises. My view is take the cash or pray the Russian credit lines continue unhindered.
I can't afford to lose the value of a 12 grand holiday particularly as my self-employed earning potential is likely to fall through the floor over the coming weeks.
A word of caution on travel insurance... mine says they will pay up if we have to cancel because "the Foreign and Commonwealth Office issue a directive advising against all, or all but essential travel to your trip destination because of an earthquake, fire, flood, or hurricane." No mention of pandemic.
Also @malcolmg - saw your response, that's fine, appreciate your comment wasn't directed at me, apols if I over-reacted.
Definitely take the cash!
Would you lend money to Carnival for one year at a 25% interest rate right now?
I wouldn't - and you are taking a worse risk as an unsecured creditor
Indeed. My only hesitation is I don't think I meet the underlying health conditions required for under-70s in Cunard's Friday offer (I might argue it as I am a paraplegic but otherwise in good health).
Hard to see how they won't have to extend the offer further though now Trump has banned entry from the UK.
Its amusing watching people lose what's left of their minds on here.
The idea any PM, let alone a Tory PM - or the CSO or CMO are hatching a plan to kill off their elderly voters is the most bonkers thing ever.
Thinking they give a hoot for elderly is the lunatic thing, the PM wants to come out a hero and that is his only concern , your granny popping her clogs will be of no concern to him.
I can only imagine your offence if someone suggested the same about the donkeys leading the SNP. Mind you they are *very* busy remembering not having ever met Alex Salmond.
I am sure they are no better for sure ( maybe a smidgen as no-one could be as bad as Tories), and it was them that knifed Alex Salmond are are currently trying to finish him off, all participants so far are high ranking SNP allegedly. PS: it is about meeting him that is causing the problem , they are singing like canaries
On the subject of "giving businesses a break", it's not inconceivable that many people will lose their jobs and incomes over the coming months. Whilst I can understand not wanting people to go round demanding their money back immediately, people should not feel obliged to carry on as normal.
I cancelled Sky Sports on Friday and I will not renew my Arsenal season ticket if they are cheeky enough to ask me to do so without there being any idea as to when football will return.
They need to stfu. I get really bad bouts of depression even after short periods of isolation. Such measures should not be taken lightly and could do far more harm than good.
I am tentatively supportive of the Government plan so far.
They need to stfu. I get really bad bouts of depression even after short periods of isolation. Such measures should not be taken lightly and could do far more harm than good.
I am tentatively supportive of the Government plan so far.
Why anyone would listen to anything Rachael says is beyond me
They need to stfu. I get really bad bouts of depression even after short periods of isolation. Such measures should not be taken lightly and could do far more harm than good.
I am tentatively supportive of the Government plan so far.
How long before the government tells Twitter to remove all these trolls as a matter of national security, under State of Emergency legislation?
On the subject of "giving businesses a break", it's not inconceivable that many people will lose their jobs and incomes over the coming months. Whilst I can understand not wanting people to go round demanding their money back immediately, people should not feel obliged to carry on as normal.
I cancelled Sky Sports on Friday and I will not renew my Arsenal season ticket if they are cheeky enough to ask me to do so without there being any idea as to when football will return.
None of the Sports channels are thinking creatively. People are already complaining about the lack of Football / F1 / Bowls / Whatever. There is a vast array of classic matches and races and tournaments out there to show. Can't show Citeh vs Burnley this afternoon? Show Burney clinging to Football League survival a few decades ago - they have it. Show Citeh beating Gillingham n the League One playoff final - they have it. I'm watching Darts on YouTube, stuff from a few years back that I've never seen and don't know who wins.
Give people wanting sports some sports. Don't say "we have your money now so Fuck You".
I thought posters may be interested in my experience of the Wales NHS last night. I saw my doctor last thursday about an abcess and it was agreed that as I had had two courses of antibiotics over another matter, the abcess would be treated with cream.
However by last night it had become very 'angry' so I went at 8.30pm to our local hospital minor injury unit and was triaged by a nurse. I had a temperature and clear indications the abcess was infected. I saw the sister who said I needed to see a doctor tonight and she phoned the main hospital out of hours to arrange an appointment
Some time lapsed when she returned to say she was just about to arrange the appointment only to be told that half an hour earlier an instruction had been received that no one with a temperature could be seen by the doctor without the doctor personally triaging the patient. Now this follows a nursing sister confirming to them the reason for the urgent need, but there was no way through and I returned home to wait the doctors phone call
At 11.30pm the doctor rang me and made an appointment for me to be seen by her at 12.00 midnight. The hospital out of hours is in the same place as the A & E and the waiting time in A & E was 3 hours, it was busy but not more than I expected
At 12.30 am I saw the doctor who immediately precribed a 7 day course of antibiotics and told me to ring back in the morning if I was feeling worse and they would admit me to lance the abcess and put me on IV antibiotics. She was lovely and so kind and I returned home with the antibiotics, taking one immediately and going to bed at about 2.30am
I hope posters do not mind my post but the lessons I learnt are that even those genuinely ill without the virus are having to jump through extraordinary hoops to get the medical attention they need. The system is beng overwhelmed and eveyone in the NHS from reception staff to surgeons need our understanding and patience in this worse peacetime crisis in living memory
And just a point, at both the minor injury unit, the A & E and the Out of Hours not one person, public or professionals were wearing masks other than a young child and his parents in Out of Hours Care
And as I seem to be responding to the antibiotic I will not be going into hospital today at least.
And finally I would just say to all posters, the fear and real worry especially in the elderly, is ill served by some trying to make a case for killing off the elderly and the idiotic idea it is govenment policy.
As someone in the highest risk group on age and underlying conditions I appeal for less politics and more compassion please, and we will get through this in time
I don't think the system is being over-whelmed. When I was at Basingstoke hospital on Friday it was calm and working as normal.
I think what you are seeing is the impact of new procedures designed to *prevent* it becoming overwhelmed e.g. protecting doctors from risk
On the subject of "giving businesses a break", it's not inconceivable that many people will lose their jobs and incomes over the coming months. Whilst I can understand not wanting people to go round demanding their money back immediately, people should not feel obliged to carry on as normal.
I cancelled Sky Sports on Friday and I will not renew my Arsenal season ticket if they are cheeky enough to ask me to do so without there being any idea as to when football will return.
None of the Sports channels are thinking creatively. People are already complaining about the lack of Football / F1 / Bowls / Whatever. There is a vast array of classic matches and races and tournaments out there to show. Can't show Citeh vs Burnley this afternoon? Show Burney clinging to Football League survival a few decades ago - they have it. Show Citeh beating Gillingham n the League One playoff final - they have it. I'm watching Darts on YouTube, stuff from a few years back that I've never seen and don't know who wins.
Give people wanting sports some sports. Don't say "we have your money now so Fuck You".
Similar to how BBC Parliament replays elections for us.
Except potentially enjoyable by millions, not dozens.
On Sunday, French Education Minister Jean-Michel Blanquer said about half of the French population would be infected by the virus.
"From the start, the strategy has not been to prevent the virus from passing - we know that it will probably pass through more than half of us - but it is to make sure that it is spread as much as possible over time," he told France Info.
In Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned earlier this week that up to 70% of the country's population - some 58 million people - could contract the virus.
----
In all honesty, this doesn't seem much different to the UK strategy. It is just the CMO and CSO spelled it in much blunter terms much earlier.
The Twitterati obviously still think that Boris is trying to murder us all.
I thought posters may be interested in my experience of the Wales NHS last night. I saw my doctor last thursday about an abcess and it was agreed that as I had had two courses of antibiotics over another matter, the abcess would be treated with cream.
However by last night it had become very 'angry' so I went at 8.30pm to our local hospital minor injury unit and was triaged by a nurse. I had a temperature and clear indications the abcess was infected. I saw the sister who said I needed to see a doctor tonight and she phoned the main hospital out of hours to arrange an appointment
Some time lapsed when she returned to say she was just about to arrange the appointment only to be told that half an hour earlier an instruction had been received that no one with a temperature could be seen by the doctor without the doctor personally triaging the patient. Now this follows a nursing sister confirming to them the reason for the urgent need, but there was no way through and I returned home to wait the doctors phone call
At 11.30pm the doctor rang me and made an appointment for me to be seen by her at 12.00 midnight. The hospital out of hours is in the same place as the A & E and the waiting time in A & E was 3 hours, it was busy but not more than I expected
At 12.30 am I saw the doctor who immediately precribed a 7 day course of antibiotics and told me to ring back in the morning if I was feeling worse and they would admit me to lance the abcess and put me on IV antibiotics. She was lovely and so kind and I returned home with the antibiotics, taking one immediately and going to bed at about 2.30am
I hope posters do not mind my post but the lessons I learnt are that even those genuinely ill without the virus are having to jump through extraordinary hoops to get the medical attention they need. The system is beng overwhelmed and eveyone in the NHS from reception staff to surgeons need our understanding and patience in this worse peacetime crisis in living memory
And just a point, at both the minor injury unit, the A & E and the Out of Hours not one person, public or professionals were wearing masks other than a young child and his parents in Out of Hours Care
And as I seem to be responding to the antibiotic I will not be going into hospital today at least.
And finally I would just say to all posters, the fear and real worry especially in the elderly, is ill served by some trying to make a case for killing off the elderly and the idiotic idea it is govenment policy.
As someone in the highest risk group on age and underlying conditions I appeal for less politics and more compassion please, and we will get through this in time
Glad you are responding to treatment G, however what a waste of scarce resources, what idiot thought that trained staff were not to be trusted and that a Doctor also had to see you and so use up far more resources than necessary. You would have thought they would be optimising use of scarce staff and not doing everything twice.
On the subject of "giving businesses a break", it's not inconceivable that many people will lose their jobs and incomes over the coming months. Whilst I can understand not wanting people to go round demanding their money back immediately, people should not feel obliged to carry on as normal.
I cancelled Sky Sports on Friday and I will not renew my Arsenal season ticket if they are cheeky enough to ask me to do so without there being any idea as to when football will return.
None of the Sports channels are thinking creatively. People are already complaining about the lack of Football / F1 / Bowls / Whatever. There is a vast array of classic matches and races and tournaments out there to show. Can't show Citeh vs Burnley this afternoon? Show Burney clinging to Football League survival a few decades ago - they have it. Show Citeh beating Gillingham n the League One playoff final - they have it. I'm watching Darts on YouTube, stuff from a few years back that I've never seen and don't know who wins.
Give people wanting sports some sports. Don't say "we have your money now so Fuck You".
And the response to your last sentence is two can play that game
All French ski resorts have just been closed. Not a surprise.
A full refund will be given in the form of a credit against a holiday next year.
Surely they have to give you your money back (not a credit) if they can't fulfill their part of the contract?
Jesus wept Benpointer...we need to give companies a break.....
I had an air trip and car hire in Italy early April...I'm not claiming back....these are businesses that employ people who have mortgages....times have changed
Let's stop being so fucking selfish...hashtag
good luck hoping that , greedy grasping low life's everywhere will be trying to make out of it, big amount of people would stiff you rather than be decent. We will see the mettle of people in this and UK will be found wanting in many cases for sure, the me me me attitude in UK is pretty dire.
Blimey, I'm being accused of being a 'greedy grasping lowlife' for wanting a refund (for our booked and fully paid for transantic QM2 crossing) rather than a 'future cruise credit'.
Anyone know when, if I took the credit, I might be able to use it? Will the parent company Carnival still be solvent? How much is travel insurance to the US going to be next year?
Greedy grasping lowlife I may be too, but I took out an annual travel insurance policy with the AA underwritten by AXA to include disruption. It was still available on Wednesday last week.
Viking are offering 125% credit or a full refund for cancelled cruises. My view is take the cash or pray the Russian credit lines continue unhindered.
I can't afford to lose the value of a 12 grand holiday particularly as my self-employed earning potential is likely to fall through the floor over the coming weeks.
A word of caution on travel insurance... mine says they will pay up if we have to cancel because "the Foreign and Commonwealth Office issue a directive advising against all, or all but essential travel to your trip destination because of an earthquake, fire, flood, or hurricane." No mention of pandemic.
Also @malcolmg - saw your response, that's fine, appreciate your comment wasn't directed at me, apols if I over-reacted.
Definitely take the cash!
Would you lend money to Carnival for one year at a 25% interest rate right now?
I wouldn't - and you are taking a worse risk as an unsecured creditor
Indeed. My only hesitation is I don't think I meet the underlying health conditions required for under-70s in Cunard's Friday offer (I might argue it as I am a paraplegic but otherwise in good health).
Hard to see how they won't have to extend the offer further though now Trump has banned entry from the UK.
Claim it and let's see them argue with a paraplegic.
(not intending to make light of your condition, so sorry if it comes across that way)
On the subject of "giving businesses a break", it's not inconceivable that many people will lose their jobs and incomes over the coming months. Whilst I can understand not wanting people to go round demanding their money back immediately, people should not feel obliged to carry on as normal.
I cancelled Sky Sports on Friday and I will not renew my Arsenal season ticket if they are cheeky enough to ask me to do so without there being any idea as to when football will return.
None of the Sports channels are thinking creatively. People are already complaining about the lack of Football / F1 / Bowls / Whatever. There is a vast array of classic matches and races and tournaments out there to show. Can't show Citeh vs Burnley this afternoon? Show Burney clinging to Football League survival a few decades ago - they have it. Show Citeh beating Gillingham n the League One playoff final - they have it. I'm watching Darts on YouTube, stuff from a few years back that I've never seen and don't know who wins.
Give people wanting sports some sports. Don't say "we have your money now so Fuck You".
Re-runs of Burnley matches? Order of the brown nose for you sir.
On the subject of "giving businesses a break", it's not inconceivable that many people will lose their jobs and incomes over the coming months. Whilst I can understand not wanting people to go round demanding their money back immediately, people should not feel obliged to carry on as normal.
I cancelled Sky Sports on Friday and I will not renew my Arsenal season ticket if they are cheeky enough to ask me to do so without there being any idea as to when football will return.
I see Branson wants £7.5B freebie from Boris to keep his airline afloat, wonder if he will stump up a penny of his own cash, I will not hold my breath.
On the subject of "giving businesses a break", it's not inconceivable that many people will lose their jobs and incomes over the coming months. Whilst I can understand not wanting people to go round demanding their money back immediately, people should not feel obliged to carry on as normal.
I cancelled Sky Sports on Friday and I will not renew my Arsenal season ticket if they are cheeky enough to ask me to do so without there being any idea as to when football will return.
I don't blame you and will do similar myself but this is the way a slight loss of confidence turns into a major slump.
They need to stfu. I get really bad bouts of depression even after short periods of isolation. Such measures should not be taken lightly and could do far more harm than good.
I am tentatively supportive of the Government plan so far.
That is what PB is for. Never alone, especially if you have strong views on pizza toppings.
All French ski resorts have just been closed. Not a surprise.
A full refund will be given in the form of a credit against a holiday next year.
Surely they have to give you your money back (not a credit) if they can't fulfill their part of the contract?
Jesus wept Benpointer...we need to give companies a break.....
I had an air trip and car hire in Italy early April...I'm not claiming back....these are businesses that employ people who have mortgages....times have changed
Let's stop being so fucking selfish...hashtag
good luck hoping that , greedy grasping low life's everywhere will be trying to make out of it, big amount of people would stiff you rather than be decent. We will see the mettle of people in this and UK will be found wanting in many cases for sure, the me me me attitude in UK is pretty dire.
Blimey, I'm being accused of being a 'greedy grasping lowlife' for wanting a refund (for our booked and fully paid for transantic QM2 crossing) rather than a 'future cruise credit'.
Anyone know when, if I took the credit, I might be able to use it? Will the parent company Carnival still be solvent? How much is travel insurance to the US going to be next year?
Greedy grasping lowlife I may be too, but I took out an annual travel insurance policy with the AA underwritten by AXA to include disruption. It was still available on Wednesday last week.
Viking are offering 125% credit or a full refund for cancelled cruises. My view is take the cash or pray the Russian credit lines continue unhindered.
I can't afford to lose the value of a 12 grand holiday particularly as my self-employed earning potential is likely to fall through the floor over the coming weeks.
A word of caution on travel insurance... mine says they will pay up if we have to cancel because "the Foreign and Commonwealth Office issue a directive advising against all, or all but essential travel to your trip destination because of an earthquake, fire, flood, or hurricane." No mention of pandemic.
Also @malcolmg - saw your response, that's fine, appreciate your comment wasn't directed at me, apols if I over-reacted.
Definitely take the cash!
Would you lend money to Carnival for one year at a 25% interest rate right now?
I wouldn't - and you are taking a worse risk as an unsecured creditor
Indeed. My only hesitation is I don't think I meet the underlying health conditions required for under-70s in Cunard's Friday offer (I might argue it as I am a paraplegic but otherwise in good health).
Hard to see how they won't have to extend the offer further though now Trump has banned entry from the UK.
Claim it and let's see them argue with a paraplegic.
(not intending to make light of your condition, so sorry if it comes across that way)
Not at all, no offence taken.
My philosophy has always been though, not to milk my situation, on the basis I don't want others to make assumptions or discriminate against me.
Its amusing watching people lose what's left of their minds on here.
The idea any PM, let alone a Tory PM - or the CSO or CMO are hatching a plan to kill off their elderly voters is the most bonkers thing ever.
Thinking they give a hoot for elderly is the lunatic thing, the PM wants to come out a hero and that is his only concern , your granny popping her clogs will be of no concern to him.
But with respect to Granny if Coronavirus doesn't do her in there's a good chance any number of other things will - and does. Old people die, especially in winter. Yes I am worried about my frail sick parents. But no more so than normal as they get to the start of every winter joking that it could be their last.
The idea that the PM is going to be responsible for old people dying of this is absurd, even if the strategy is to accept that a decent proportion of them were going to die of something else anyway so what does it matter if its Covid19 that finishes them off instead of normal flu or pneumonia or old age or all the other things that kill "your granny" in their tens of thousands every year.
As a 70 year old I take exception to the idea that it's OK to let the oldies die because they were on there way out anyway!
Johnson’s Herd Immunity/Genocide Project is the very essence Capitalism is founded upon. When push comes to shove if you are the weakest link, goodbye. In a time of crisis like this, Capitalism itself needs to survive, so if you take out the pot and don’t put in during this, goodbye.
In the header, note the word “voids” Liverpool fans.
What a load of rubbish when Boris is about to tell all over 70s to self isolate for 4 months and when building herd immunity in the young will reduce pressure on the NHS next winter
I'm genuinely confused, hasn't the health secretary just told us that herd immunity is not their policy?
On the subject of "giving businesses a break", it's not inconceivable that many people will lose their jobs and incomes over the coming months. Whilst I can understand not wanting people to go round demanding their money back immediately, people should not feel obliged to carry on as normal.
I cancelled Sky Sports on Friday and I will not renew my Arsenal season ticket if they are cheeky enough to ask me to do so without there being any idea as to when football will return.
I don't blame you and will do similar myself but this is the way a slight loss of confidence turns into a major slump.
"I know how I [Wayne Rooney] feel. If any of my family get infected through me because I've had to play when it's not safe, and they get seriously ill, I'd have to think hard about ever playing again. I would never forgive the authorities."
I think football is heading for a massive bust up between the clubs and the players. All the focus at the moment is on whether or not the government should be doing more to stop the spread of the virus. It will soon turn to the economic impacts when bills and wages stop getting paid.
On the subject of "giving businesses a break", it's not inconceivable that many people will lose their jobs and incomes over the coming months. Whilst I can understand not wanting people to go round demanding their money back immediately, people should not feel obliged to carry on as normal.
I cancelled Sky Sports on Friday and I will not renew my Arsenal season ticket if they are cheeky enough to ask me to do so without there being any idea as to when football will return.
I see Branson wants £7.5B freebie from Boris to keep his airline afloat, wonder if he will stump up a penny of his own cash, I will not hold my breath.
The argument for bailing out the banks is that they are a necessity and their collapse would have caused a lot of pain and suffering.
Just in a Costa at an out-of-town retail park in Newcastle. It’s packed, nobody is wearing gloves, nobody is wearing a mask.
Neither am I, to be fair.
Wifey has just come back from Asda Thornaby. Described it as being "Christmas Eve" in there - people frantically buying everything, showing past each other, blocking, the whole Jingle All The Way experience.
Sunday is an awful day to go to a supermarket even in normal times.
Normal in M&S this morning and very good stock of all the stuff which is selling out elsewhere. If panic had really set in people would be putting their hand in their pocket for a better quality of survival provision.
What happened was the US government proposed funding the development in the form of a licensing deal (fairly standard). Some idiot lawyer sent over the standard template which in life sciences is "exclusive global rights".
That doesn't mean only for the US. That means that the US government will own the intellectual property in return for providing the funding.
Ottermann's insinuation is that they would stop other people having access to it. Which is bullshit.
All French ski resorts have just been closed. Not a surprise.
A full refund will be given in the form of a credit against a holiday next year.
Surely they have to give you your money back (not a credit) if they can't fulfill their part of the contract?
Jesus wept Benpointer...we need to give companies a break.....
I had an air trip and car hire in Italy early April...I'm not claiming back....these are businesses that employ people who have mortgages....times have changed
Let's stop being so fucking selfish...hashtag
good luck hoping that , greedy grasping low life's everywhere will be trying to make out of it, big amount of people would stiff you rather than be decent. We will see the mettle of people in this and UK will be found wanting in many cases for sure, the me me me attitude in UK is pretty dire.
Blimey, I'm being accused of being a 'greedy grasping lowlife' for wanting a refund (for our booked and fully paid for transantic QM2 crossing) rather than a 'future cruise credit'.
Anyone know when, if I took the credit, I might be able to use it? Will the parent company Carnival still be solvent? How much is travel insurance to the US going to be next year?
Greedy grasping lowlife I may be too, but I took out an annual travel insurance policy with the AA underwritten by AXA to include disruption. It was still available on Wednesday last week.
Viking are offering 125% credit or a full refund for cancelled cruises. My view is take the cash or pray the Russian credit lines continue unhindered.
I can't afford to lose the value of a 12 grand holiday particularly as my self-employed earning potential is likely to fall through the floor over the coming weeks.
A word of caution on travel insurance... mine says they will pay up if we have to cancel because "the Foreign and Commonwealth Office issue a directive advising against all, or all but essential travel to your trip destination because of an earthquake, fire, flood, or hurricane." No mention of pandemic.
Also @malcolmg - saw your response, that's fine, appreciate your comment wasn't directed at me, apols if I over-reacted.
I read a book on the Great Fire of San Francisco last year.
Prior to the fire (1906), the US insurance market was about 50/50 split between German and UK companies. The German companies tried every legal and technical wheeze to avoid paying. The UK companies paid up without question.
In the next decade the market share was 90/10 in favour of the UK companies.
I would be very surprised if any of the mainstream insurance companies tried not to payout on those grounds.
Looking at my own policy it covers fco advice irrespective of the reason, but excludes actions of foreign governments (so closing of borders).
It also covers cancellation because you are seriously ill. In 4 weeks time I doubt if you say to an insurer that you have coronavirus they are going to say Oh no you don't, or that it isn't serious.
Ok, so how bad do we reckon the economic impact is going to be?
Flat growth? short recession? full-on crash? once in a century depression?
For what it's worth I think it's going to be very bad. Just look at the sectors currently facing an uncertain future:
Airlines Cruise companies Travel agents Restaurants Pubs Cinemas Theatres/concerts/festivals Sports UK tourism Insurance Manufacturing (staff/supplies) Banking (bad debts) Housing (price) High street retailers
I am sure there are others I haven't considered too.
Presumably banks will be bailed out again if needed so they can support other things. Though it does raise the question whether it's better to get money out of banks into property or shares since they will regain value in time.
All French ski resorts have just been closed. Not a surprise.
A full refund will be given in the form of a credit against a holiday next year.
Surely they have to give you your money back (not a credit) if they can't fulfill their part of the contract?
Jesus wept Benpointer...we need to give companies a break.....
I had an air trip and car hire in Italy early April...I'm not claiming back....these are businesses that employ people who have mortgages....times have changed
Let's stop being so fucking selfish...hashtag
good luck hoping that , greedy grasping low life's everywhere will be trying to make out of it, big amount of people would stiff you rather than be decent. We will see the mettle of people in this and UK will be found wanting in many cases for sure, the me me me attitude in UK is pretty dire.
Blimey, I'm being accused of being a 'greedy grasping lowlife' for wanting a refund (for our booked and fully paid for transantic QM2 crossing) rather than a 'future cruise credit'.
Anyone know when, if I took the credit, I might be able to use it? Will the parent company Carnival still be solvent? How much is travel insurance to the US going to be next year?
Greedy grasping lowlife I may be too, but I took out an annual travel insurance policy with the AA underwritten by AXA to include disruption. It was still available on Wednesday last week.
Viking are offering 125% credit or a full refund for cancelled cruises. My view is take the cash or pray the Russian credit lines continue unhindered.
I can't afford to lose the value of a 12 grand holiday particularly as my self-employed earning potential is likely to fall through the floor over the coming weeks.
A word of caution on travel insurance... mine says they will pay up if we have to cancel because "the Foreign and Commonwealth Office issue a directive advising against all, or all but essential travel to your trip destination because of an earthquake, fire, flood, or hurricane." No mention of pandemic.
Also @malcolmg - saw your response, that's fine, appreciate your comment wasn't directed at me, apols if I over-reacted.
Definitely take the cash!
Would you lend money to Carnival for one year at a 25% interest rate right now?
I wouldn't - and you are taking a worse risk as an unsecured creditor
Indeed. My only hesitation is I don't think I meet the underlying health conditions required for under-70s in Cunard's Friday offer (I might argue it as I am a paraplegic but otherwise in good health).
Hard to see how they won't have to extend the offer further though now Trump has banned entry from the UK.
Claim it and let's see them argue with a paraplegic.
(not intending to make light of your condition, so sorry if it comes across that way)
Not at all, no offence taken.
My philosophy has always been though, not to milk my situation, on the basis I don't want others to make assumptions or discriminate against me.
On the subject of "giving businesses a break", it's not inconceivable that many people will lose their jobs and incomes over the coming months. Whilst I can understand not wanting people to go round demanding their money back immediately, people should not feel obliged to carry on as normal.
I cancelled Sky Sports on Friday and I will not renew my Arsenal season ticket if they are cheeky enough to ask me to do so without there being any idea as to when football will return.
I see Branson wants £7.5B freebie from Boris to keep his airline afloat, wonder if he will stump up a penny of his own cash, I will not hold my breath.
LOL Sir Richard - that's not happening!
If the government have anything to do with his airline, it'll be helping to underwrite the finance for the company that buys his stricken assets for 10p in the pound.
What happened was the US government proposed funding the development in the form of a licensing deal (fairly standard). Some idiot lawyer sent over the standard template which in life sciences is "exclusive global rights".
That doesn't mean only for the US. That means that the US government will own the intellectual property in return for providing the funding.
Ottermann's insinuation is that they would stop other people having access to it. Which is bullshit.
IIRC (calling the lawyers here) that if you don't claim rights, others can attempt to "squat"... So holding the global rights means that you don't have to argue with anyone or anything as you distribute your work/product/thing.
They need to stfu. I get really bad bouts of depression even after short periods of isolation. Such measures should not be taken lightly and could do far more harm than good.
I am tentatively supportive of the Government plan so far.
That is what PB is for. Never alone, especially if you have strong views on pizza toppings.
The issue with pizza toppings is that there's not a lot to do once we all agree that pineapple, chicken and olive pizza is objectively the ultimate pizza.
Union leaders are calling for private hospital beds in the UK to be used rent free, to ease pressure on NHS hospitals dealing with the coronavirus crisis.
The GMB union has launched a petition urging the prime minister to requisition private hospital beds, amid reports the NHS is to spend up to £2.4m a day to do so.
Tw@ts...they are already being provided at less than the cost of an NHS bed.
I thought posters may be interested in my experience of the Wales NHS last night. I saw my doctor last thursday about an abcess and it was agreed that as I had had two courses of antibiotics over another matter, the abcess would be treated with cream.
However by last night it had become very 'angry' so I went at 8.30pm to our local hospital minor injury unit and was triaged by a nurse. I had a temperature and clear indications the abcess was infected. I saw the sister who said I needed to see a doctor tonight and she phoned the main hospital out of hours to arrange an appointment
Some time lapsed when she returned to say she was just about to arrange the appointment only to be told that half an hour earlier an instruction had been received that no one with a temperature could be seen by the doctor without the doctor personally triaging the patient. Now this follows a nursing sister confirming to them the reason for the urgent need, but there was no way through and I returned home to wait the doctors phone call
At 11.30pm the doctor rang me and made an appointment for me to be seen by her at 12.00 midnight. The hospital out of hours is in the same place as the A & E and the waiting time in A & E was 3 hours, it was busy but not more than I expected
At 12.30 am I saw the doctor who immediately precribed a 7 day course of antibiotics and told me to ring back in the morning if I was feeling worse and they would admit me to lance the abcess and put me on IV antibiotics. She was lovely and so kind and I returned home with the antibiotics, taking one immediately and going to bed at about 2.30am
I hope posters do not mind my post but the lessons I learnt are that even those genuinely ill without the virus are having to jump through extraordinary hoops to get the medical attention they need. The system is beng overwhelmed and eveyone in the NHS from reception staff to surgeons need our understanding and patience in this worse peacetime crisis in living memory
And just a point, at both the minor injury unit, the A & E and the Out of Hours not one person, public or professionals were wearing masks other than a young child and his parents in Out of Hours Care
And as I seem to be responding to the antibiotic I will not be going into hospital today at least.
And finally I would just say to all posters, the fear and real worry especially in the elderly, is ill served by some trying to make a case for killing off the elderly and the idiotic idea it is govenment policy.
As someone in the highest risk group on age and underlying conditions I appeal for less politics and more compassion please, and we will get through this in time
I don't think the system is being over-whelmed. When I was at Basingstoke hospital on Friday it was calm and working as normal.
I think what you are seeing is the impact of new procedures designed to *prevent* it becoming overwhelmed e.g. protecting doctors from risk
Yes but surely they should accept a nursing sisters recommendation. She seemed very frustrated by it obviously not having experienced it before
Do you still think the Black Death was caused by a virus?
Is he pushing the Anthrax theory?
Many years ago I worked with a Texan who had had the interesting fortune to catch both bubonic plague (endemic among some wildlife there) and anthrax (from working with cattle).
On the subject of "giving businesses a break", it's not inconceivable that many people will lose their jobs and incomes over the coming months. Whilst I can understand not wanting people to go round demanding their money back immediately, people should not feel obliged to carry on as normal.
I cancelled Sky Sports on Friday and I will not renew my Arsenal season ticket if they are cheeky enough to ask me to do so without there being any idea as to when football will return.
I don't blame you and will do similar myself but this is the way a slight loss of confidence turns into a major slump.
"I know how I [Wayne Rooney] feel. If any of my family get infected through me because I've had to play when it's not safe, and they get seriously ill, I'd have to think hard about ever playing again. I would never forgive the authorities."
I think football is heading for a massive bust up between the clubs and the players. All the focus at the moment is on whether or not the government should be doing more to stop the spread of the virus. It will soon turn to the economic impacts when bills and wages stop getting paid.
On the subject of "giving businesses a break", it's not inconceivable that many people will lose their jobs and incomes over the coming months. Whilst I can understand not wanting people to go round demanding their money back immediately, people should not feel obliged to carry on as normal.
I cancelled Sky Sports on Friday and I will not renew my Arsenal season ticket if they are cheeky enough to ask me to do so without there being any idea as to when football will return.
I see Branson wants £7.5B freebie from Boris to keep his airline afloat, wonder if he will stump up a penny of his own cash, I will not hold my breath.
The argument for bailing out the banks is that they are a necessity and their collapse would have caused a lot of pain and suffering.
The same does not apply to airlines.
Indeed. Let the banks go to the wall and the economy immediately freezes.
Again the see the media are playing silly games trying to pin Hannock this morning by trying to corner him into confirming or denying everybody who needs a ventilator, will get one.
This know this isn't possible. It wasn't possible in China, it won't be possible anywhere.
Its like asking in WWII, will all soldiers get a certain bit of kit.
What happened was the US government proposed funding the development in the form of a licensing deal (fairly standard). Some idiot lawyer sent over the standard template which in life sciences is "exclusive global rights".
That doesn't mean only for the US. That means that the US government will own the intellectual property in return for providing the funding.
Ottermann's insinuation is that they would stop other people having access to it. Which is bullshit.
Charles: how is your understanding of the race to find a successful anti-viral? Any insight there? And, most important, hope your dad is okay and the Hampshire hotspot is not associated with his hospital.
They are trying two main things at the moment Actema (IL-6 binder that has been shown to help with cytokine storm induced by CAR-T therapy) and Kaletra, which is a combination of two protease inhibitors for HIV that has also been shown to work in HPV.
My Dad has tested positive, but is being well looked after in the said Hampshire hotspot. Thank you for your thoughts.
I thought posters may be interested in my experience of the Wales NHS last night. I saw my doctor last thursday about an abcess and it was agreed that as I had had two courses of antibiotics over another matter, the abcess would be treated with cream.
However by last night it had become very 'angry' so I went at 8.30pm to our local hospital minor injury unit and was triaged by a nurse. I had a temperature and clear indications the abcess was infected. I saw the sister who said I needed to see a doctor tonight and she phoned the main hospital out of hours to arrange an appointment
Some time lapsed when she returned to say she was just about to arrange the appointment only to be told that half an hour earlier an instruction had been received that no one with a temperature could be seen by the doctor without the doctor personally triaging the patient. Now this follows a nursing sister confirming to them the reason for the urgent need, but there was no way through and I returned home to wait the doctors phone call
At 11.30pm the doctor rang me and made an appointment for me to be seen by her at 12.00 midnight. The hospital out of hours is in the same place as the A & E and the waiting time in A & E was 3 hours, it was busy but not more than I expected
At 12.30 am I saw the doctor who immediately precribed a 7 day course of antibiotics and told me to ring back in the morning if I was feeling worse and they would admit me to lance the abcess and put me on IV antibiotics. She was lovely and so kind and I returned home with the antibiotics, taking one immediately and going to bed at about 2.30am
I hope posters do not mind my post but the lessons I learnt are that even those genuinely ill without the virus are having to jump through extraordinary hoops to get the medical attention they need. The system is beng overwhelmed and eveyone in the NHS from reception staff to surgeons need our understanding and patience in this worse peacetime crisis in living memory
And just a point, at both the minor injury unit, the A & E and the Out of Hours not one person, public or professionals were wearing masks other than a young child and his parents in Out of Hours Care
And as I seem to be responding to the antibiotic I will not be going into hospital today at least.
And finally I would just say to all posters, the fear and real worry especially in the elderly, is ill served by some trying to make a case for killing off the elderly and the idiotic idea it is govenment policy.
As someone in the highest risk group on age and underlying conditions I appeal for less politics and more compassion please, and we will get through this in time
I thought posters may be interested in my experience of the Wales NHS last night. I saw my doctor last thursday about an abcess and it was agreed that as I had had two courses of antibiotics over another matter, the abcess would be treated with cream.
However by last night it had become very 'angry' so I went at 8.30pm to our local hospital minor injury unit and was triaged by a nurse. I had a temperature and clear indications the abcess was infected. I saw the sister who said I needed to see a doctor tonight and she phoned the main hospital out of hours to arrange an appointment
Some time lapsed when she returned to say she was just about to arrange the appointment only to be told that half an hour earlier an instruction had been received that no one with a temperature could be seen by the doctor without the doctor personally triaging the patient. Now this follows a nursing sister confirming to them the reason for the urgent need, but there was no way through and I returned home to wait the doctors phone call
At 11.30pm the doctor rang me and made an appointment for me to be seen by her at 12.00 midnight. The hospital out of hours is in the same place as the A & E and the waiting time in A & E was 3 hours, it was busy but not more than I expected
At 12.30 am I saw the doctor who immediately precribed a 7 day course of antibiotics and told me to ring back in the morning if I was feeling worse and they would admit me to lance the abcess and put me on IV antibiotics. She was lovely and so kind and I returned home with the antibiotics, taking one immediately and going to bed at about 2.30am
I hope posters do not mind my post but the lessons I learnt are that even those genuinely ill without the virus are having to jump through extraordinary hoops to get the medical attention they need. The system is beng overwhelmed and eveyone in the NHS from reception staff to surgeons need our understanding and patience in this worse peacetime crisis in living memory
And just a point, at both the minor injury unit, the A & E and the Out of Hours not one person, public or professionals were wearing masks other than a young child and his parents in Out of Hours Care
And as I seem to be responding to the antibiotic I will not be going into hospital today at least.
And finally I would just say to all posters, the fear and real worry especially in the elderly, is ill served by some trying to make a case for killing off the elderly and the idiotic idea it is govenment policy.
As someone in the highest risk group on age and underlying conditions I appeal for less politics and more compassion please, and we will get through this in time
Glad you are responding to treatment G, however what a waste of scarce resources, what idiot thought that trained staff were not to be trusted and that a Doctor also had to see you and so use up far more resources than necessary. You would have thought they would be optimising use of scarce staff and not doing everything twice.
Thanks Malc and exactly my thinking but more importantly the sister thought the same
What happened was the US government proposed funding the development in the form of a licensing deal (fairly standard). Some idiot lawyer sent over the standard template which in life sciences is "exclusive global rights".
That doesn't mean only for the US. That means that the US government will own the intellectual property in return for providing the funding.
Ottermann's insinuation is that they would stop other people having access to it. Which is bullshit.
IIRC (calling the lawyers here) that if you don't claim rights, others can attempt to "squat"... So holding the global rights means that you don't have to argue with anyone or anything as you distribute your work/product/thing.
You expect a guardian journalist (or any other for that matter) to appreciate such nuances?
Do you still think the Black Death was caused by a virus?
Is he pushing the Anthrax theory?
Many years ago I worked with a Texan who had had the interesting fortune to catch both bubonic plague (endemic among some wildlife there) and anthrax (from working with cattle).
No she just misread the book.
I think we are back with yersinia pestis after some work done on dna in French plague pits in the past decade.
What happened was the US government proposed funding the development in the form of a licensing deal (fairly standard). Some idiot lawyer sent over the standard template which in life sciences is "exclusive global rights".
That doesn't mean only for the US. That means that the US government will own the intellectual property in return for providing the funding.
Ottermann's insinuation is that they would stop other people having access to it. Which is bullshit.
IIRC (calling the lawyers here) that if you don't claim rights, others can attempt to "squat"... So holding the global rights means that you don't have to argue with anyone or anything as you distribute your work/product/thing.
What the lawyer asked for was entirely reasonable. But he didn't consider how the media would report it.
What happened was the US government proposed funding the development in the form of a licensing deal (fairly standard). Some idiot lawyer sent over the standard template which in life sciences is "exclusive global rights".
That doesn't mean only for the US. That means that the US government will own the intellectual property in return for providing the funding.
Ottermann's insinuation is that they would stop other people having access to it. Which is bullshit.
Charles: how is your understanding of the race to find a successful anti-viral? Any insight there? And, most important, hope your dad is okay and the Hampshire hotspot is not associated with his hospital.
They are trying two main things at the moment Actema (IL-6 binder that has been shown to help with cytokine storm induced by CAR-T therapy) and Kaletra, which is a combination of two protease inhibitors for HIV that has also been shown to work in HPV.
My Dad has tested positive, but is being well looked after in the said Hampshire hotspot. Thank you for your thoughts.
I see Trump has tested negative...he is going to be one of those genetic freaks that is naturally immune isn't he.
His doctors are rubbish though.
In the past they’ve said ‘his medical results are astonishingly excellent’ and ‘Trump will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency’ and my all time favourite ‘Trump's health is excellent, especially his mental health.’
Do you still think the Black Death was caused by a virus?
Is he pushing the Anthrax theory?
Many years ago I worked with a Texan who had had the interesting fortune to catch both bubonic plague (endemic among some wildlife there) and anthrax (from working with cattle).
Hope you didn't ever stand near him in a thunderstorm!
Charles: how is your understanding of the race to find a successful anti-viral? Any insight there? And, most important, hope your dad is okay and the Hampshire hotspot is not associated with his hospital.
They are trying two main things at the moment Actema (IL-6 binder that has been shown to help with cytokine storm induced by CAR-T therapy) and Kaletra, which is a combination of two protease inhibitors for HIV that has also been shown to work in HPV.
My Dad has tested positive, but is being well looked after in the said Hampshire hotspot. Thank you for your thoughts.
Is he at the Hampshire clinic, Charles?
Basingstoke and North Hants. NHS is better for acute situations.
Well I am being sent to our Tescos in Dundee with a little list. Don't buy substitutes, don't get any good ideas, is my clear advice. I fear I may be some time.
Johnson’s Herd Immunity/Genocide Project is the very essence Capitalism is founded upon. When push comes to shove if you are the weakest link, goodbye. In a time of crisis like this, Capitalism itself needs to survive, so if you take out the pot and don’t put in during this, goodbye.
In the header, note the word “voids” Liverpool fans.
What a load of rubbish when Boris is about to tell all over 70s to self isolate for 4 months and when building herd immunity in the young will reduce pressure on the NHS next winter
I'm genuinely confused, hasn't the health secretary just told us that herd immunity is not their policy?
Got to say you are not the only one. Whilst I think the CMO and his team appear to be doing a good job and are, I hope, following the right course, the messaging on this from the Government has been pretty poor over the last week and appears to rely too much on people assuming they know what the officials mean rather than it being explicit.
I thought posters may be interested in my experience of the Wales NHS last night. I saw my doctor last thursday about an abcess and it was agreed that as I had had two courses of antibiotics over another matter, the abcess would be treated with cream.
However by last night it had become very 'angry' so I went at 8.30pm to our local hospital minor injury unit and was triaged by a nurse. I had a temperature and clear indications the abcess was infected. I saw the sister who said I needed to see a doctor tonight and she phoned the main hospital out of hours to arrange an appointment
Some time lapsed when she returned to say she was just about to arrange the appointment only to be told that half an hour earlier an instruction had been received that no one with a temperature could be seen by the doctor without the doctor personally triaging the patient. Now this follows a nursing sister confirming to them the reason for the urgent need, but there was no way through and I returned home to wait the doctors phone call
At 11.30pm the doctor rang me and made an appointment for me to be seen by her at 12.00 midnight. The hospital out of hours is in the same place as the A & E and the waiting time in A & E was 3 hours, it was busy but not more than I expected
At 12.30 am I saw the doctor who immediately precribed a 7 day course of antibiotics and told me to ring back in the morning if I was feeling worse and they would admit me to lance the abcess and put me on IV antibiotics. She was lovely and so kind and I returned home with the antibiotics, taking one immediately and going to bed at about 2.30am
I hope posters do not mind my post but the lessons I learnt are that even those genuinely ill without the virus are having to jump through extraordinary hoops to get the medical attention they need. The system is beng overwhelmed and eveyone in the NHS from reception staff to surgeons need our understanding and patience in this worse peacetime crisis in living memory
And just a point, at both the minor injury unit, the A & E and the Out of Hours not one person, public or professionals were wearing masks other than a young child and his parents in Out of Hours Care
And as I seem to be responding to the antibiotic I will not be going into hospital today at least.
And finally I would just say to all posters, the fear and real worry especially in the elderly, is ill served by some trying to make a case for killing off the elderly and the idiotic idea it is govenment policy.
As someone in the highest risk group on age and underlying conditions I appeal for less politics and more compassion please, and we will get through this in time
Lovely post Big G.
Get well soon.
Thank you so much. This crisis needs depoliticising
Its amusing watching people lose what's left of their minds on here.
The idea any PM, let alone a Tory PM - or the CSO or CMO are hatching a plan to kill off their elderly voters is the most bonkers thing ever.
Thinking they give a hoot for elderly is the lunatic thing, the PM wants to come out a hero and that is his only concern , your granny popping her clogs will be of no concern to him.
But with respect to Granny if Coronavirus doesn't do her in there's a good chance any number of other things will - and does. Old people die, especially in winter. Yes I am worried about my frail sick parents. But no more so than normal as they get to the start of every winter joking that it could be their last.
The idea that the PM is going to be responsible for old people dying of this is absurd, even if the strategy is to accept that a decent proportion of them were going to die of something else anyway so what does it matter if its Covid19 that finishes them off instead of normal flu or pneumonia or old age or all the other things that kill "your granny" in their tens of thousands every year.
As a 70 year old I take exception to the idea that it's OK to let the oldies die because they were on there way out anyway!
How do you think I, at 81, view it! I have stopped going to the gym though. And no, they're not, so far at any rate, suspending my membership. Not sure either whether I'll have my Sunday evening constitutional plus pint!
Ok, so how bad do we reckon the economic impact is going to be?
Flat growth? short recession? full-on crash? once in a century depression?
For what it's worth I think it's going to be very bad. Just look at the sectors currently facing an uncertain future:
Airlines Cruise companies Travel agents Restaurants Pubs Cinemas Theatres/concerts/festivals Sports UK tourism Insurance Manufacturing (staff/supplies) Banking (bad debts) Housing (price) High street retailers
I am sure there are others I haven't considered too.
I can't see it being anything other than a depression. I assume it depends on how much money they can print to help support all these businesses.
I do hope the government quickly flexes on the 5 week delay for initial UC payments. It's terrible for individuals who have been laid off but absolutely stupid for the country's economy too.
Well I am being sent to our Tescos in Dundee with a little list. Don't buy substitutes, don't get any good ideas, is my clear advice. I fear I may be some time.
Charles: how is your understanding of the race to find a successful anti-viral? Any insight there? And, most important, hope your dad is okay and the Hampshire hotspot is not associated with his hospital.
They are trying two main things at the moment Actema (IL-6 binder that has been shown to help with cytokine storm induced by CAR-T therapy) and Kaletra, which is a combination of two protease inhibitors for HIV that has also been shown to work in HPV.
My Dad has tested positive, but is being well looked after in the said Hampshire hotspot. Thank you for your thoughts.
Is he at the Hampshire clinic, Charles?
Basingstoke and North Hants. NHS is better for acute situations.
Good. That's where our daughter went when she had bronchiolitis, and she was also born in the maternity ward there.
What happened was the US government proposed funding the development in the form of a licensing deal (fairly standard). Some idiot lawyer sent over the standard template which in life sciences is "exclusive global rights".
That doesn't mean only for the US. That means that the US government will own the intellectual property in return for providing the funding.
Ottermann's insinuation is that they would stop other people having access to it. Which is bullshit.
Charles: how is your understanding of the race to find a successful anti-viral? Any insight there? And, most important, hope your dad is okay and the Hampshire hotspot is not associated with his hospital.
They are trying two main things at the moment Actema (IL-6 binder that has been shown to help with cytokine storm induced by CAR-T therapy) and Kaletra, which is a combination of two protease inhibitors for HIV that has also been shown to work in HPV.
My Dad has tested positive, but is being well looked after in the said Hampshire hotspot. Thank you for your thoughts.
Just in a Costa at an out-of-town retail park in Newcastle. It’s packed, nobody is wearing gloves, nobody is wearing a mask.
Neither am I, to be fair.
Wifey has just come back from Asda Thornaby. Described it as being "Christmas Eve" in there - people frantically buying everything, showing past each other, blocking, the whole Jingle All The Way experience.
Sunday is an awful day to go to a supermarket even in normal times.
Normal in M&S this morning and very good stock of all the stuff which is selling out elsewhere. If panic had really set in people would be putting their hand in their pocket for a better quality of survival provision.
Yes , yesterday in Sainsbury's I was able to get real quality Italian penne pasta, £2.50 a packet , the only pasta left on the shelves. Shelves stripped of the cheap stuff but herd did not want to try a quality one obviously.
I thought posters may be interested in my experience of the Wales NHS last night. I saw my doctor last thursday about an abcess and it was agreed that as I had had two courses of antibiotics over another matter, the abcess would be treated with cream.
However by last night it had become very 'angry' so I went at 8.30pm to our local hospital minor injury unit and was triaged by a nurse. I had a temperature and clear indications the abcess was infected. I saw the sister who said I needed to see a doctor tonight and she phoned the main hospital out of hours to arrange an appointment
Some time lapsed when she returned to say she was just about to arrange the appointment only to be told that half an hour earlier an instruction had been received that no one with a temperature could be seen by the doctor without the doctor personally triaging the patient. Now this follows a nursing sister confirming to them the reason for the urgent need, but there was no way through and I returned home to wait the doctors phone call
At 11.30pm the doctor rang me and made an appointment for me to be seen by her at 12.00 midnight. The hospital out of hours is in the same place as the A & E and the waiting time in A & E was 3 hours, it was busy but not more than I expected
At 12.30 am I saw the doctor who immediately precribed a 7 day course of antibiotics and told me to ring back in the morning if I was feeling worse and they would admit me to lance the abcess and put me on IV antibiotics. She was lovely and so kind and I returned home with the antibiotics, taking one immediately and going to bed at about 2.30am
I hope posters do not mind my post but the lessons I learnt are that even those genuinely ill without the virus are having to jump through extraordinary hoops to get the medical attention they need. The system is beng overwhelmed and eveyone in the NHS from reception staff to surgeons need our understanding and patience in this worse peacetime crisis in living memory
And just a point, at both the minor injury unit, the A & E and the Out of Hours not one person, public or professionals were wearing masks other than a young child and his parents in Out of Hours Care
And as I seem to be responding to the antibiotic I will not be going into hospital today at least.
And finally I would just say to all posters, the fear and real worry especially in the elderly, is ill served by some trying to make a case for killing off the elderly and the idiotic idea it is govenment policy.
As someone in the highest risk group on age and underlying conditions I appeal for less politics and more compassion please, and we will get through this in time
Lovely post Big G.
Get well soon.
Thank you so much. This crisis needs depoliticising
Absolutely agree. Some people are a bit slow to recognise the seismic shift this will cause. It's way beyond left-right, leave-remain etc.
Ok, so how bad do we reckon the economic impact is going to be?
Flat growth? short recession? full-on crash? once in a century depression?
For what it's worth I think it's going to be very bad. Just look at the sectors currently facing an uncertain future:
Airlines Cruise companies Travel agents Restaurants Pubs Cinemas Theatres/concerts/festivals Sports UK tourism Insurance Manufacturing (staff/supplies) Banking (bad debts) Housing (price) High street retailers
I am sure there are others I haven't considered too.
It all depends on if this is a single wave that lasts 3-4 months and that is it / they develop effective treatments.
If this is going to be several waves of it, with no treatment or vaccine, it is once in a century depression stuff.
The biggest problems I see arising from this is the massive disruption of international trade. The global economy is going to suffer a huge set back. Long complicated international supply lines that we have taken for granted are going to look a very bad idea.
The disruption in production and uncertainty of supply just might give local production a boost but it is going to be offset by the fall in trade, travel, holidays, sport etc. I cannot see anything other than quite a prolonged slump with a huge number of companies collapsing. Our business model of carrying lots of debt and relatively little equity to maximise returns turns out to be unfortunate.
Just in a Costa at an out-of-town retail park in Newcastle. It’s packed, nobody is wearing gloves, nobody is wearing a mask.
Neither am I, to be fair.
Wifey has just come back from Asda Thornaby. Described it as being "Christmas Eve" in there - people frantically buying everything, showing past each other, blocking, the whole Jingle All The Way experience.
Sunday is an awful day to go to a supermarket even in normal times.
Normal in M&S this morning and very good stock of all the stuff which is selling out elsewhere. If panic had really set in people would be putting their hand in their pocket for a better quality of survival provision.
Yes , yesterday in Sainsbury's I was able to get real quality Italian penne pasta, £2.50 a packet , the only pasta left on the shelves. Shelves stripped of the cheap stuff but herd did not want to try a quality one obviously.
It does seem like these hoarders are right cheapskates.
What happened was the US government proposed funding the development in the form of a licensing deal (fairly standard). Some idiot lawyer sent over the standard template which in life sciences is "exclusive global rights".
That doesn't mean only for the US. That means that the US government will own the intellectual property in return for providing the funding.
Ottermann's insinuation is that they would stop other people having access to it. Which is bullshit.
IIRC (calling the lawyers here) that if you don't claim rights, others can attempt to "squat"... So holding the global rights means that you don't have to argue with anyone or anything as you distribute your work/product/thing.
It’s all moot anyway. Any vaccine will undoubtedly be subject to compulsory licensing provisions. This is a non-story. This will also apply to on-patent ventilator technology btw.
Comments
He was only there to buy a loaf. He has no stockpile at all and is wondering whether he should get one.
However by last night it had become very 'angry' so I went at 8.30pm to our local hospital minor injury unit and was triaged by a nurse. I had a temperature and clear indications the abcess was infected. I saw the sister who said I needed to see a doctor tonight and she phoned the main hospital out of hours to arrange an appointment
Some time lapsed when she returned to say she was just about to arrange the appointment only to be told that half an hour earlier an instruction had been received that no one with a temperature could be seen by the doctor without the doctor personally triaging the patient. Now this follows a nursing sister confirming to them the reason for the urgent need, but there was no way through and I returned home to wait the doctors phone call
At 11.30pm the doctor rang me and made an appointment for me to be seen by her at 12.00 midnight. The hospital out of hours is in the same place as the A & E and the waiting time in A & E was 3 hours, it was busy but not more than I expected
At 12.30 am I saw the doctor who immediately precribed a 7 day course of antibiotics and told me to ring back in the morning if I was feeling worse and they would admit me to lance the abcess and put me on IV antibiotics. She was lovely and so kind and I returned home with the antibiotics, taking one immediately and going to bed at about 2.30am
I hope posters do not mind my post but the lessons I learnt are that even those genuinely ill without the virus are having to jump through extraordinary hoops to get the medical attention they need. The system is beng overwhelmed and eveyone in the NHS from reception staff to surgeons need our understanding and patience in this worse peacetime crisis in living memory
And just a point, at both the minor injury unit, the A & E and the Out of Hours not one person, public or professionals were wearing masks other than a young child and his parents in Out of Hours Care
And as I seem to be responding to the antibiotic I will not be going into hospital today at least.
And finally I would just say to all posters, the fear and real worry especially in the elderly, is ill served by some trying to make a case for killing off the elderly and the idiotic idea it is govenment policy.
As someone in the highest risk group on age and underlying conditions I appeal for less politics and more compassion please, and we will get through this in time
The government needs a trusted spokesperson to give say a 5 min. daily briefing to the press, followed by questions.
Trusted ... er, that might be difficult.
Hard to see how they won't have to extend the offer further though now Trump has banned entry from the UK.
https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1239148687693094913
Compare with:
https://twitter.com/D_G_Alexander/status/1238859613912600583
No wonder Labour needs to split. It's like two different planets.
PS: it is about meeting him that is causing the problem , they are singing like canaries
I cancelled Sky Sports on Friday and I will not renew my Arsenal season ticket if they are cheeky enough to ask me to do so without there being any idea as to when football will return.
I am tentatively supportive of the Government plan so far.
This is war, not a silly points scoring exercise.
Most normal people simply aren't on Twitter.
I grant that Facebook is different.
Give people wanting sports some sports. Don't say "we have your money now so Fuck You".
I think what you are seeing is the impact of new procedures designed to *prevent* it becoming overwhelmed e.g. protecting doctors from risk
Except potentially enjoyable by millions, not dozens.
"From the start, the strategy has not been to prevent the virus from passing - we know that it will probably pass through more than half of us - but it is to make sure that it is spread as much as possible over time," he told France Info.
In Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned earlier this week that up to 70% of the country's population - some 58 million people - could contract the virus.
----
In all honesty, this doesn't seem much different to the UK strategy. It is just the CMO and CSO spelled it in much blunter terms much earlier.
The Twitterati obviously still think that Boris is trying to murder us all.
(not intending to make light of your condition, so sorry if it comes across that way)
Flat growth? short recession? full-on crash? once in a century depression?
For what it's worth I think it's going to be very bad. Just look at the sectors currently facing an uncertain future:
Airlines
Cruise companies
Travel agents
Restaurants
Pubs
Cinemas
Theatres/concerts/festivals
Sports
UK tourism
Insurance
Manufacturing (staff/supplies)
Banking (bad debts)
Housing (price)
High street retailers
I am sure there are others I haven't considered too.
If this is going to be several waves of it, with no treatment or vaccine, it is once in a century depression stuff.
My philosophy has always been though, not to milk my situation, on the basis I don't want others to make assumptions or discriminate against me.
I'm genuinely confused, hasn't the health secretary just told us that herd immunity is not their policy?
"I know how I [Wayne Rooney] feel. If any of my family get infected through me because I've had to play when it's not safe, and they get seriously ill, I'd have to think hard about ever playing again. I would never forgive the authorities."
I think football is heading for a massive bust up between the clubs and the players. All the focus at the moment is on whether or not the government should be doing more to stop the spread of the virus. It will soon turn to the economic impacts when bills and wages stop getting paid. The argument for bailing out the banks is that they are a necessity and their collapse would have caused a lot of pain and suffering.
The same does not apply to airlines.
https://twitter.com/philipoltermann/status/1239145627864498176
What happened was the US government proposed funding the development in the form of a licensing deal (fairly standard). Some idiot lawyer sent over the standard template which in life sciences is "exclusive global rights".
That doesn't mean only for the US. That means that the US government will own the intellectual property in return for providing the funding.
Ottermann's insinuation is that they would stop other people having access to it. Which is bullshit.
It also covers cancellation because you are seriously ill. In 4 weeks time I doubt if you say to an insurer that you have coronavirus they are going to say Oh no you don't, or that it isn't serious.
If the government have anything to do with his airline, it'll be helping to underwrite the finance for the company that buys his stricken assets for 10p in the pound.
The GMB union has launched a petition urging the prime minister to requisition private hospital beds, amid reports the NHS is to spend up to £2.4m a day to do so.
Tw@ts...they are already being provided at less than the cost of an NHS bed.
Many years ago I worked with a Texan who had had the interesting fortune to catch both bubonic plague (endemic among some wildlife there) and anthrax (from working with cattle).
This know this isn't possible. It wasn't possible in China, it won't be possible anywhere.
Its like asking in WWII, will all soldiers get a certain bit of kit.
My Dad has tested positive, but is being well looked after in the said Hampshire hotspot. Thank you for your thoughts.
Get well soon.
I think we are back with yersinia pestis after some work done on dna in French plague pits in the past decade.
My Dad has tested positive, but is being well looked after in the said Hampshire hotspot. Thank you for your thoughts.
Is he at the Hampshire clinic, Charles?
In the past they’ve said ‘his medical results are astonishingly excellent’ and ‘Trump will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency’ and my all time favourite ‘Trump's health is excellent, especially his mental health.’
Not sure either whether I'll have my Sunday evening constitutional plus pint!
Didn't realise you had connections in Hampshire!
Hope he gets well soon. All the best.
The disruption in production and uncertainty of supply just might give local production a boost but it is going to be offset by the fall in trade, travel, holidays, sport etc. I cannot see anything other than quite a prolonged slump with a huge number of companies collapsing. Our business model of carrying lots of debt and relatively little equity to maximise returns turns out to be unfortunate.