I hope the Uk government are watching and learning from mainland Europe, you know the rate of development, you know the level of hospitaiisation and you know the icu demand. Nothing about the uk is different but you have had some extra time.
Na, they are just sitting around making it up as they go along.
During the COBRA meeting, Boris uses his origami skills to fold one of those decision makers, then takes random instructions from that....
I’ve seen mention of rationing in some comments - do people think this is a distinct possibility?
Depends on whether supply chains are disrupted, and for how long.
Supply chains for toilet paper and soap aren't going to be disrupted for a considerable time, if at all. What you have at the moment and so far is simply periodic crises of demand in out of town supermarkets.
France has reported a total of 4,499 confirmed coronavirus cases – up from 3,661 on Friday, according to official figures.
Time to ban travel from France.
As long as they don't ban travel TO France.
I have a skiing holiday booked for 11 April with my grandchildren in the French Alps with ClubMed. They are still taking bookings so who knows. I booked a year ago.
It was a horrifying incident in February half term when I found a Jet2 Holidays coach parked in El Campello. The idea of bringing Benidorm Brits to my lovely Spanish seaside town was ewwwww....
Happily no Jet2 advertised holiday destinations round there advertised. Phew.
France has reported a total of 4,499 confirmed coronavirus cases – up from 3,661 on Friday, according to official figures.
Time to ban travel from France.
As long as they don't ban travel TO France.
I have a skiing holiday booked for 11 April with my grandchildren in the French Alps with ClubMed. They are still taking bookings so who knows. I booked a year ago.
I think you should prepare yourself for a disappointment tbh.
So while I am allegedly skiving off by working from home, those conscientious types who make it in to the office are actually sat in the traps all morning dropping their guts and stinking the place out.
Shit before shower is the correct sequence of morning ablutions.
France has reported a total of 4,499 confirmed coronavirus cases – up from 3,661 on Friday, according to official figures.
From comparing the figures, one would have to consider that cultural norms on closeness and touching, and maybe also others too, might be playing a part. Looking at the outcomes as a proportion of the cases, Spain and Italy seem to be suffering particularly badly from the disease so far, Britain, Germany and Scandinavia - again, so far - apparently not as badly, and France apparently in the middle.
These are all obviously only early indications, though, which might all change.
Let’s hope that standing far apart and shouting at each other works for the US, then?
Panic buying is a slippery and dubious concept to identify, and generally more favourable to governments and those organising than individuals. What is irrational at one momemt can be immediately rational the next - I think rather the blanket condemnation of it it might be better for governments or supermarkets to focus on the positive - we everyone at some times might have reasons to buy more, but if we operate a more shared and gradual approach supplies are less likely to run out.
In the end there will be wartime style rationing, and things will calm down. Everyone will get their 1-2 rolls per bottom per week.
It's the few weeks of possible chaos/shortage between now and then that need to be bridged. And I mean chaos
You may well be right. This thing's now about getting ahead of the curve: if you spend too much time feeling guilty about what other people won't be getting because you've got it, you just end up becoming other people yourself. Once the panic buying gets past a certain critical mass, the first wave of them stop looking silly and start looking prescient - and, until the retailers and the Government itself take proper action to restore order, it's very much a case of every household for itself.
I have to be a bit choosy about what I stockpile because we've not got the space in the flat, but if we had a spare room I'd be filling it with at least two months' worth of long shelf life supplies.
Oh, and if everyone thinks it's bad now, wait until the order goes out for every vulnerable sick person and everyone over 70 to go into quarantine at once. It'll be like those scenes when Black Friday first arrived in Britain, or possibly even the 2011 London riots. Fisticuffs are inevitable; outright civil disorder and looting is a distinct possibility.
Yes, I think there will be some disorder, which is one reason I am fairly keen to leave London.
BTW I also have a fairly small flat, but I've just accepted that half the living room is going to be full of tinned sardines and M&S penne for a while. Either we will shift it to a bigger place outside London, or we will eat it here. The problem will solve itself in time.
Accepting all this is part of coping, I reckon.
6 months worth of food can fit into just over a cubic meter if you buy smart and pack well. That's with a shopping list including olives and capers not just boring shit.
You should publish the how-to guide on this, it's probably worth money. Might even be worth seeing if you could sell it freelance to one of the more armageddon-led newspapers...
I bet you can do much better than that if you choose sufficiently calorie-dense foodstuffs.
France has reported a total of 4,499 confirmed coronavirus cases – up from 3,661 on Friday, according to official figures.
From comparing the figures, one would have to consider that cultural norms on closeness and touching, and maybe also others too, might be playing a part. Looking at the outcomes as a proportion of the cases, Spain and Italy seem to be suffering particularly badly from the disease so far, Britain, Germany and Scandinavia - again, so far - apparently not as badly, and France apparently in the middle.
These are all obviously only early indications, though, which might all change.
Let’s hope that standing far apart and shouting at each other works for the US, then?
I dread the US's lack of preparedness in its infrastructure and ideas about public health - let's hope it gets better.
Panic buying is a slippery and dubious concept to identify, and generally more favourable to governments and those organising than individuals. What is irrational at one momemt can be immediately rational the next - I think rather the blanket condemnation of it it might be better for governments or supermarkets to focus on the positive - we everyone at some times might have reasons to buy more, but if we operate a more shared and gradual approach supplies are less likely to run out.
In the end there will be wartime style rationing, and things will calm down. Everyone will get their 1-2 rolls per bottom per week.
It's the few weeks of possible chaos/shortage between now and then that need to be bridged. And I mean chaos
You may well be right. This thing's now about getting ahead of the curve: if you spend too much time feeling guilty about what other people won't be getting because you've got it, you just end up becoming other people yourself. Once the panic buying gets past a certain critical mass, the first wave of them stop looking silly and start looking prescient - and, until the retailers and the Government itself take proper action to restore order, it's very much a case of every household for itself.
I have to be a bit choosy about what I stockpile because we've not got the space in the flat, but if we had a spare room I'd be filling it with at least two months' worth of long shelf life supplies.
Oh, and if everyone thinks it's bad now, wait until the order goes out for every vulnerable sick person and everyone over 70 to go into quarantine at once. It'll be like those scenes when Black Friday first arrived in Britain, or possibly even the 2011 London riots. Fisticuffs are inevitable; outright civil disorder and looting is a distinct possibility.
Yes, I think there will be some disorder, which is one reason I am fairly keen to leave London.
BTW I also have a fairly small flat, but I've just accepted that half the living room is going to be full of tinned sardines and M&S penne for a while. Either we will shift it to a bigger place outside London, or we will eat it here. The problem will solve itself in time.
Accepting all this is part of coping, I reckon.
6 months worth of food can fit into just over a cubic meter if you buy smart and pack well. That's with a shopping list including olives and capers not just boring shit.
You should publish the how-to guide on this, it's probably worth money. Might even be worth seeing if you could sell it freelance to one of the more armageddon-led newspapers...
France has reported a total of 4,499 confirmed coronavirus cases – up from 3,661 on Friday, according to official figures.
Time to ban travel from France.
As long as they don't ban travel TO France.
I have a skiing holiday booked for 11 April with my grandchildren in the French Alps with ClubMed. They are still taking bookings so who knows. I booked a year ago.
You might want to re-think....Norfolk has no one yet with Coronavius and there is a dry ski slope at Norwich....
I think you need to think of the 2 hopes for that holiday.....Bob Hope..and ??
Coronavirus: Scientists say UK virus strategy is 'risking lives'
In an open letter, a group of 229 scientists from UK universities say the government's current approach will put the NHS under additional stress and "risk many more lives than necessary".
In a separate letter to the government, more than 200 behavioural scientists have questioned the government's argument that starting tougher measures too soon would lead to people not sticking to them just at the point that the epidemic is at its height.
'UK at the beginning of exponential phase,' says expert Following the news that the UK's case total has now risen to 1,140, Dr Stephen Griffin, Associate Professor, Leeds Institute of Medical Research, University of Leeds, said:
"The upsurge in daily cases this week could indicate that we're at the beginning of the exponential phase of the UK epidemic.
"Unfortunately, I suspect we can expect to see further daily increases in both diagnostics and mortality over the coming weeks.
"We must ensure that the most vulnerable in our society are protected as much as possible as this unfolds. Elderly, immunosuppressed and/or people living with chronic health conditions are most at risk from SARS COV2 infections.
"Moreover, they are also potentially less able to cope with any period of self isolation or lockdown etc.
"The empty shelves I've witnessed in my local supermarket this afternoon signify an entirely unhelpful, selfish movement towards panic buying that can only adversely affect those most in need amongst the UK population."
This looks like BS from someone who should know better. We have been in an 'exponential phase' since Feb 27th at least. The increase has been a straight line against a logarithmic scale since 27th Feb.
Nah. He's from University of Leeds, the finest educational institution in the known world.
France has reported a total of 4,499 confirmed coronavirus cases – up from 3,661 on Friday, according to official figures.
Time to ban travel from France.
As long as they don't ban travel TO France.
I have a skiing holiday booked for 11 April with my grandchildren in the French Alps with ClubMed. They are still taking bookings so who knows. I booked a year ago.
I think you should prepare yourself for a disappointment tbh.
I am prepared. It's the grandchildren who aren't. Maybe I can arrange something in Virtual Reality with Oculus Quests.
Just imagine travelling back three months in time to December and telling yourself that half of Europe would have closed its borders and be in lockdown, thousands of citizens were facing death, the US had banned flights from the UK and that people were fighting in the supermarket aisles over toilet roll.
You wouldn’t believe it (or assumed No Deal Brexit had happened...)
Coronavirus: Scientists say UK virus strategy is 'risking lives'
In an open letter, a group of 229 scientists from UK universities say the government's current approach will put the NHS under additional stress and "risk many more lives than necessary".
In a separate letter to the government, more than 200 behavioural scientists have questioned the government's argument that starting tougher measures too soon would lead to people not sticking to them just at the point that the epidemic is at its height.
You can see why the government set up a Ministry of Information in 1918 and 1939. It isn't good for national morale to have the experts disagreeing with each other in public.
Coronavirus: Scientists say UK virus strategy is 'risking lives'
In an open letter, a group of 229 scientists from UK universities say the government's current approach will put the NHS under additional stress and "risk many more lives than necessary".
In a separate letter to the government, more than 200 behavioural scientists have questioned the government's argument that starting tougher measures too soon would lead to people not sticking to them just at the point that the epidemic is at its height.
I mean just look what happened in Spain. Closing of schools etc. led to people congregating in parks, restaurants and bars. Probably made things worse in the long run.
The second letter called on the government to reconsider its stance on "behavioural fatigue" and to share the evidence on which it based this stance.
So they haven't seen the evidence the government used, but are saying it is wrong anyway?
Panic buying is a slippery and dubious concept to identify, and generally more favourable to governments and those organising than individuals. What is irrational at one momemt can be immediately rational the next - I think rather the blanket condemnation of it it might be better for governments or supermarkets to focus on the positive - we everyone at some times might have reasons to buy more, but if we operate a more shared and gradual approach supplies are less likely to run out.
In the end there will be wartime style rationing, and things will calm down. Everyone will get their 1-2 rolls per bottom per week.
It's the few weeks of possible chaos/shortage between now and then that need to be bridged. And I mean chaos
You may well be right. This thing's now about getting ahead of the curve: if you spend too much time feeling guilty about what other people won't be getting because you've got it, you just end up becoming other people yourself. Once the panic buying gets past a certain critical mass, the first wave of them stop looking silly and start looking prescient - and, until the retailers and the Government itself take proper action to restore order, it's very much a case of every household for itself.
I have to be a bit choosy about what I stockpile because we've not got the space in the flat, but if we had a spare room I'd be filling it with at least two months' worth of long shelf life supplies.
Oh, and if everyone thinks it's bad now, wait until the order goes out for every vulnerable sick person and everyone over 70 to go into quarantine at once. It'll be like those scenes when Black Friday first arrived in Britain, or possibly even the 2011 London riots. Fisticuffs are inevitable; outright civil disorder and looting is a distinct possibility.
Yes, I think there will be some disorder, which is one reason I am fairly keen to leave London.
BTW I also have a fairly small flat, but I've just accepted that half the living room is going to be full of tinned sardines and M&S penne for a while. Either we will shift it to a bigger place outside London, or we will eat it here. The problem will solve itself in time.
Accepting all this is part of coping, I reckon.
6 months worth of food can fit into just over a cubic meter if you buy smart and pack well. That's with a shopping list including olives and capers not just boring shit.
A cubic metre is a surprisingly large area.
It is the same as a thousand litres or enough space for the beer from two thousand 500ml bottles.
The equivalent of about five pints a day for a year.
Coronavirus: Scientists say UK virus strategy is 'risking lives'
In an open letter, a group of 229 scientists from UK universities say the government's current approach will put the NHS under additional stress and "risk many more lives than necessary".
In a separate letter to the government, more than 200 behavioural scientists have questioned the government's argument that starting tougher measures too soon would lead to people not sticking to them just at the point that the epidemic is at its height.
Panic buying is a slippery and dubious concept to identify, and generally more favourable to governments and those organising than individuals. What is irrational at one momemt can be immediately rational the next - I think rather the blanket condemnation of it it might be better for governments or supermarkets to focus on the positive - we everyone at some times might have reasons to buy more, but if we operate a more shared and gradual approach supplies are less likely to run out.
In the end there will be wartime style rationing, and things will calm down. Everyone will get their 1-2 rolls per bottom per week.
It's the few weeks of possible chaos/shortage between now and then that need to be bridged. And I mean chaos
You may well be right. This thing's now about getting ahead of the curve: if you spend too much time feeling guilty about what other people won't be getting because you've got it, you just end up becoming other people yourself. Once the panic buying gets past a certain critical mass, the first wave of them stop looking silly and start looking prescient - and, until the retailers and the Government itself take proper action to restore order, it's very much a case of every household for itself.
I have to be a bit choosy about what I stockpile because we've not got the space in the flat, but if we had a spare room I'd be filling it with at least two months' worth of long shelf life supplies.
Oh, and if everyone thinks it's bad now, wait until the order goes out for every vulnerable sick person and everyone over 70 to go into quarantine at once. It'll be like those scenes when Black Friday first arrived in Britain, or possibly even the 2011 London riots. Fisticuffs are inevitable; outright civil disorder and looting is a distinct possibility.
Yes, I think there will be some disorder, which is one reason I am fairly keen to leave London.
BTW I also have a fairly small flat, but I've just accepted that half the living room is going to be full of tinned sardines and M&S penne for a while. Either we will shift it to a bigger place outside London, or we will eat it here. The problem will solve itself in time.
Accepting all this is part of coping, I reckon.
6 months worth of food can fit into just over a cubic meter if you buy smart and pack well. That's with a shopping list including olives and capers not just boring shit.
A cubic metre is a surprisingly large area.
It is the same as a thousand litres or enough space for the beer from two thousand 500ml bottles.
The equivalent of about five pints a day for a year.
Coronavirus: Scientists say UK virus strategy is 'risking lives'
In an open letter, a group of 229 scientists from UK universities say the government's current approach will put the NHS under additional stress and "risk many more lives than necessary".
In a separate letter to the government, more than 200 behavioural scientists have questioned the government's argument that starting tougher measures too soon would lead to people not sticking to them just at the point that the epidemic is at its height.
I've eaten now a full box of Pringles and a pot noodle (large) from my Coronavirus supplies in the last 24 hours..my (Italian) wife is disgusted with me.....
Is it me, or are the British a bit partial to eating absolute shyte? I think it's genetic...
'UK at the beginning of exponential phase,' says expert Following the news that the UK's case total has now risen to 1,140, Dr Stephen Griffin, Associate Professor, Leeds Institute of Medical Research, University of Leeds, said:
"The upsurge in daily cases this week could indicate that we're at the beginning of the exponential phase of the UK epidemic.
"Unfortunately, I suspect we can expect to see further daily increases in both diagnostics and mortality over the coming weeks.
"We must ensure that the most vulnerable in our society are protected as much as possible as this unfolds. Elderly, immunosuppressed and/or people living with chronic health conditions are most at risk from SARS COV2 infections.
"Moreover, they are also potentially less able to cope with any period of self isolation or lockdown etc.
"The empty shelves I've witnessed in my local supermarket this afternoon signify an entirely unhelpful, selfish movement towards panic buying that can only adversely affect those most in need amongst the UK population."
This looks like BS from someone who should know better. We have been in an 'exponential phase' since Feb 27th at least. The increase has been a straight line against a logarithmic scale since 27th Feb.
Not sure how fair your criticism of the "exponential growth" comment is, bearing in mind the experts are trying to simplify their language to talk to the general public. I think he's trying to get across that we're now on the bit of the epidemic curve (the upside-down U thing that looks vaguely bell-shaped but isn't actually Gaussian) where it's kinked distinctly upwards. Yes, strictly speaking the flatter but rising bit before then is also part of exponential growth (which describes the initial phase of an epidemic well, when almost all people are still susceptible so the net reproduction number is basically the same as R0) but the main point he is trying to convey to the general public is "it's going to continue going up steeply from here", which is what Joe Bloggs thinks "exponential growth" means (rather than consistent daily % changes or a line of constant gradient on a log-scale graph). Effectively, he's saying "from this point on, that exponential growth is biting and is really going to hurt".
You might think I'm cutting him a bit too much slack and if so fair enough, but he's not trying to apply technically correct terminology so amateur epidemiologists (don't mean that in a negative sense, just literally mean the kind of non-professionals who would nevertheless like to look at a log-scale graph and see where trends are) can keep up with where the professionals are at right now, he's got a different target audience here.
Coronavirus: Scientists say UK virus strategy is 'risking lives'
In an open letter, a group of 229 scientists from UK universities say the government's current approach will put the NHS under additional stress and "risk many more lives than necessary".
In a separate letter to the government, more than 200 behavioural scientists have questioned the government's argument that starting tougher measures too soon would lead to people not sticking to them just at the point that the epidemic is at its height.
Coronavirus: Scientists say UK virus strategy is 'risking lives'
In an open letter, a group of 229 scientists from UK universities say the government's current approach will put the NHS under additional stress and "risk many more lives than necessary".
In a separate letter to the government, more than 200 behavioural scientists have questioned the government's argument that starting tougher measures too soon would lead to people not sticking to them just at the point that the epidemic is at its height.
I saw an article earlier about the US intelligence community (CIA and DIA NCMI) providing medical intelligence about other countries. I had a hunch such things were going on. It's quite probable that the US, UK and likely other governments have private views about the apparent "success" some other countries are having. The assumption that the public data is meaningful and easily comparable seems to drive a lot of the "you are doing it wrong" clamour, but it's not the only data the decision makers have.
I've eaten now a full box of Pringles and a pot noodle (large) from my Coronavirus supplies in the last 24 hours..my (Italian) wife is disgusted with me.....
Is it me, or are the British a bit partial to eating absolute shyte? I think it's genetic...
I'm working on the assumption that restrictions are coming and soon. So take away goodness it is whikst we're still allowed. You want to talk about eating absolute shyte? Up here on Teesside we have the Parmo...
Panic buying is a slippery and dubious concept to identify, and generally more favourable to governments and those organising than individuals. What is irrational at one momemt can be immediately rational the next - I think rather the blanket condemnation of it it might be better for governments or supermarkets to focus on the positive - we everyone at some times might have reasons to buy more, but if we operate a more shared and gradual approach supplies are less likely to run out.
In the end there will be wartime style rationing, and things will calm down. Everyone will get their 1-2 rolls per bottom per week.
It's the few weeks of possible chaos/shortage between now and then that need to be bridged. And I mean chaos
You may well be right. This thing's now about getting ahead of the curve: if you spend too much time feeling guilty about what other people won't be getting because you've got it, you just end up becoming other people yourself. Once the panic buying gets past a certain critical mass, the first wave of them stop looking silly and start looking prescient - and, until the retailers and the Government itself take proper action to restore order, it's very much a case of every household for itself.
I have to be a bit choosy about what I stockpile because we've not got the space in the flat, but if we had a spare room I'd be filling it with at least two months' worth of long shelf life supplies.
Oh, and if everyone thinks it's bad now, wait until the order goes out for every vulnerable sick person and everyone over 70 to go into quarantine at once. It'll be like those scenes when Black Friday first arrived in Britain, or possibly even the 2011 London riots. Fisticuffs are inevitable; outright civil disorder and looting is a distinct possibility.
Yes, I think there will be some disorder, which is one reason I am fairly keen to leave London.
BTW I also have a fairly small flat, but I've just accepted that half the living room is going to be full of tinned sardines and M&S penne for a while. Either we will shift it to a bigger place outside London, or we will eat it here. The problem will solve itself in time.
Accepting all this is part of coping, I reckon.
6 months worth of food can fit into just over a cubic meter if you buy smart and pack well. That's with a shopping list including olives and capers not just boring shit.
A cubic metre is a surprisingly large area.
It is the same as a thousand litres or enough space for the beer from two thousand 500ml bottles.
The equivalent of about five pints a day for a year.
It is if it’s in the middle of the living room floor. If it’s under the bed or up on some shelves, it’s a lot smaller!
Coronavirus: Scientists say UK virus strategy is 'risking lives'
In an open letter, a group of 229 scientists from UK universities say the government's current approach will put the NHS under additional stress and "risk many more lives than necessary".
In a separate letter to the government, more than 200 behavioural scientists have questioned the government's argument that starting tougher measures too soon would lead to people not sticking to them just at the point that the epidemic is at its height.
I saw an article earlier about the US intelligence community (CIA and DIA NCMI) providing medical intelligence about other countries. I had a hunch such things were going on. It's quite probable that the US, UK and likely other governments have private views about the apparent "success" some other countries are having. The assumption that the public data is meaningful and easily comparable seems to drive a lot of the "you are doing it wrong" clamour, but it's not the only data the decision makers have.
Just imagine travelling back three months in time to December and telling yourself that half of Europe would have closed its borders and be in lockdown, thousands of citizens were facing death, the US had banned flights from the UK and that people were fighting in the supermarket aisles over toilet roll.
You wouldn’t believe it (or assumed No Deal Brexit had happened...)
I posted yesterday....if China had noticed that small cluster of elderly patients suffering from a strange strain of pneumonia in Wuhen towards the end of November, and taken simple steps of isolation, and checking and isolating wider contracts....Covid 19 might have just made it on page 6 on the world section of the Guardian with a couple of paras....
Panic buying is a slippery and dubious concept to identify, and generally more favourable to governments and those organising than individuals. What is irrational at one momemt can be immediately rational the next - I think rather the blanket condemnation of it it might be better for governments or supermarkets to focus on the positive - we everyone at some times might have reasons to buy more, but if we operate a more shared and gradual approach supplies are less likely to run out.
In the end there will be wartime style rationing, and things will calm down. Everyone will get their 1-2 rolls per bottom per week.
It's the few weeks of possible chaos/shortage between now and then that need to be bridged. And I mean chaos
You may well be right. This thing's now about getting ahead of the curve: if you spend too much time feeling guilty about what other people won't be getting because you've got it, you just end up becoming other people yourself. Once the panic buying gets past a certain critical mass, the first wave of them stop looking silly and start looking prescient - and, until the retailers and the Government itself take proper action to restore order, it's very much a case of every household for itself.
I have to be a bit choosy about what I stockpile because we've not got the space in the flat, but if we had a spare room I'd be filling it with at least two months' worth of long shelf life supplies.
Oh, and if everyone thinks it's bad now, wait until the order goes out for every vulnerable sick person and everyone over 70 to go into quarantine at once. It'll be like those scenes when Black Friday first arrived in Britain, or possibly even the 2011 London riots. Fisticuffs are inevitable; outright civil disorder and looting is a distinct possibility.
Yes, I think there will be some disorder, which is one reason I am fairly keen to leave London.
BTW I also have a fairly small flat, but I've just accepted that half the living room is going to be full of tinned sardines and M&S penne for a while. Either we will shift it to a bigger place outside London, or we will eat it here. The problem will solve itself in time.
Accepting all this is part of coping, I reckon.
6 months worth of food can fit into just over a cubic meter if you buy smart and pack well. That's with a shopping list including olives and capers not just boring shit.
A cubic metre is a surprisingly large area.
It is the same as a thousand litres or enough space for the beer from two thousand 500ml bottles.
The equivalent of about five pints a day for a year.
Volume, not area!
Fun fact - a cubic metre of water weighs near enough a (metric) tonne.
Coronavirus: Scientists say UK virus strategy is 'risking lives'
In an open letter, a group of 229 scientists from UK universities say the government's current approach will put the NHS under additional stress and "risk many more lives than necessary".
In a separate letter to the government, more than 200 behavioural scientists have questioned the government's argument that starting tougher measures too soon would lead to people not sticking to them just at the point that the epidemic is at its height.
I saw an article earlier about the US intelligence community (CIA and DIA NCMI) providing medical intelligence about other countries. I had a hunch such things were going on. It's quite probable that the US, UK and likely other governments have private views about the apparent "success" some other countries are having. The assumption that the public data is meaningful and easily comparable seems to drive a lot of the "you are doing it wrong" clamour, but it's not the only data the decision makers have.
Cough cough China...
That's quite a cough you have there..... time for your isolation.
I've eaten now a full box of Pringles and a pot noodle (large) from my Coronavirus supplies in the last 24 hours..my (Italian) wife is disgusted with me.....
Is it me, or are the British a bit partial to eating absolute shyte? I think it's genetic...
I'm working on the assumption that restrictions are coming and soon. So take away goodness it is whikst we're still allowed. You want to talk about eating absolute shyte? Up here on Teesside we have the Parmo...
Basically, from this article, it appears we can be infected simultaneously with both flu and COVID, and that in theses cases nasopharyngeal swab and sputum samples can repeatedly test negative for COVID, while after admission to ICU bronchial lavage and sputum samples test positive.
I don't know precisely what this means in terms of what is going on with the two viruses, but perhaps a co-infection with flu is crowding COVID out from replicating in the upper respiratory tract. Be interesting to find out more on this.
I've eaten now a full box of Pringles and a pot noodle (large) from my Coronavirus supplies in the last 24 hours..my (Italian) wife is disgusted with me.....
Is it me, or are the British a bit partial to eating absolute shyte? I think it's genetic...
I'm working on the assumption that restrictions are coming and soon. So take away goodness it is whikst we're still allowed. You want to talk about eating absolute shyte? Up here on Teesside we have the Parmo...
Coronavirus: Scientists say UK virus strategy is 'risking lives'
In an open letter, a group of 229 scientists from UK universities say the government's current approach will put the NHS under additional stress and "risk many more lives than necessary".
In a separate letter to the government, more than 200 behavioural scientists have questioned the government's argument that starting tougher measures too soon would lead to people not sticking to them just at the point that the epidemic is at its height.
I saw an article earlier about the US intelligence community (CIA and DIA NCMI) providing medical intelligence about other countries. I had a hunch such things were going on. It's quite probable that the US, UK and likely other governments have private views about the apparent "success" some other countries are having. The assumption that the public data is meaningful and easily comparable seems to drive a lot of the "you are doing it wrong" clamour, but it's not the only data the decision makers have.
I’ve seen mention of rationing in some comments - do people think this is a distinct possibility?
Depends on whether supply chains are disrupted, and for how long.
If the idiotic panic buying continues then yes, definitely
We are pretty much under orders to be prepared to self-isolate, which necessarily entails people who shop every couple of days laying in 7 x normal shops in one go. This is prudent, rational, public-spirited and inevitable. What data do you have on how shopping of this sort compares in volume with idiotic panic buying?
Coronavirus: Scientists say UK virus strategy is 'risking lives'
In an open letter, a group of 229 scientists from UK universities say the government's current approach will put the NHS under additional stress and "risk many more lives than necessary".
In a separate letter to the government, more than 200 behavioural scientists have questioned the government's argument that starting tougher measures too soon would lead to people not sticking to them just at the point that the epidemic is at its height.
I saw an article earlier about the US intelligence community (CIA and DIA NCMI) providing medical intelligence about other countries. I had a hunch such things were going on. It's quite probable that the US, UK and likely other governments have private views about the apparent "success" some other countries are having. The assumption that the public data is meaningful and easily comparable seems to drive a lot of the "you are doing it wrong" clamour, but it's not the only data the decision makers have.
Panic buying is a slippery and dubious concept to identify, and generally more favourable to governments and those organising than individuals. What is irrational at one momemt can be immediately rational the next - I think rather the blanket condemnation of it it might be better for governments or supermarkets to focus on the positive - we everyone at some times might have reasons to buy more, but if we operate a more shared and gradual approach supplies are less likely to run out.
In the end there will be wartime style rationing, and things will calm down. Everyone will get their 1-2 rolls per bottom per week.
It's the few weeks of possible chaos/shortage between now and then that need to be bridged. And I mean chaos
You may well be right. This thing's now about getting ahead of the curve: if you spend too much time feeling guilty about what other people won't be getting because you've got it, you just end up becoming other people yourself. Once the panic buying gets past a certain critical mass, the first wave of them stop looking silly and start looking prescient - and, until the retailers and the Government itself take proper action to restore order, it's very much a case of every household for itself.
I have to be a bit choosy about what I stockpile because we've not got the space in the flat, but if we had a spare room I'd be filling it with at least two months' worth of long shelf life supplies.
Oh, and if everyone thinks it's bad now, wait until the order goes out for every vulnerable sick person and everyone over 70 to go into quarantine at once. It'll be like those scenes when Black Friday first arrived in Britain, or possibly even the 2011 London riots. Fisticuffs are inevitable; outright civil disorder and looting is a distinct possibility.
Yes, I think there will be some disorder, which is one reason I am fairly keen to leave London.
BTW I also have a fairly small flat, but I've just accepted that half the living room is going to be full of tinned sardines and M&S penne for a while. Either we will shift it to a bigger place outside London, or we will eat it here. The problem will solve itself in time.
Accepting all this is part of coping, I reckon.
6 months worth of food can fit into just over a cubic meter if you buy smart and pack well. That's with a shopping list including olives and capers not just boring shit.
A cubic metre is a surprisingly large area.
It is the same as a thousand litres or enough space for the beer from two thousand 500ml bottles.
The equivalent of about five pints a day for a year.
Volume, not area!
Fun fact - a cubic metre of water weighs near enough a (metric) tonne.
Er... precisely a metric tonne surely, given that a gramme was defined as the weight of 1cc of water in 1795?
I've eaten now a full box of Pringles and a pot noodle (large) from my Coronavirus supplies in the last 24 hours..my (Italian) wife is disgusted with me.....
Is it me, or are the British a bit partial to eating absolute shyte? I think it's genetic...
I'm working on the assumption that restrictions are coming and soon. So take away goodness it is whikst we're still allowed. You want to talk about eating absolute shyte? Up here on Teesside we have the Parmo...
A 56-year-old shopper was mugged for his toilet paper just moments after leaving a store in London as panic about the coronavirus epidemic leads to wide-spread stockpiling.
Dinendra was leaving a Savers store in Harringay, north London, around 3.30pm when someone ran up behind him and snatched one of the two toilet rolls he was carrying.
Coronavirus: Scientists say UK virus strategy is 'risking lives'
In an open letter, a group of 229 scientists from UK universities say the government's current approach will put the NHS under additional stress and "risk many more lives than necessary".
In a separate letter to the government, more than 200 behavioural scientists have questioned the government's argument that starting tougher measures too soon would lead to people not sticking to them just at the point that the epidemic is at its height.
I saw an article earlier about the US intelligence community (CIA and DIA NCMI) providing medical intelligence about other countries. I had a hunch such things were going on. It's quite probable that the US, UK and likely other governments have private views about the apparent "success" some other countries are having. The assumption that the public data is meaningful and easily comparable seems to drive a lot of the "you are doing it wrong" clamour, but it's not the only data the decision makers have.
Indeed. At this stage, it would be foolish to treat any of the data coming from anywhere with high confidence.
Panic buying is a slippery and dubious concept to identify, and generally more favourable to governments and those organising than individuals. What is irrational at one momemt can be immediately rational the next - I think rather the blanket condemnation of it it might be better for governments or supermarkets to focus on the positive - we everyone at some times might have reasons to buy more, but if we operate a more shared and gradual approach supplies are less likely to run out.
In the end there will be wartime style rationing, and things will calm down. Everyone will get their 1-2 rolls per bottom per week.
It's the few weeks of possible chaos/shortage between now and then that need to be bridged. And I mean chaos
You may well be right. This thing's now about getting ahead of the curve: if you spend too much time feeling guilty about what other people won't be getting because you've got it, you just end up becoming other people yourself. Once the panic buying gets past a certain critical mass, the first wave of them stop looking silly and start looking prescient - and, until the retailers and the Government itself take proper action to restore order, it's very much a case of every household for itself.
I have to be a bit choosy about what I stockpile because we've not got the space in the flat, but if we had a spare room I'd be filling it with at least two months' worth of long shelf life supplies.
Oh, and if everyone thinks it's bad now, wait until the order goes out for every vulnerable sick person and everyone over 70 to go into quarantine at once. It'll be like those scenes when Black Friday first arrived in Britain, or possibly even the 2011 London riots. Fisticuffs are inevitable; outright civil disorder and looting is a distinct possibility.
Yes, I think there will be some disorder, which is one reason I am fairly keen to leave London.
BTW I also have a fairly small flat, but I've just accepted that half the living room is going to be full of tinned sardines and M&S penne for a while. Either we will shift it to a bigger place outside London, or we will eat it here. The problem will solve itself in time.
Accepting all this is part of coping, I reckon.
6 months worth of food can fit into just over a cubic meter if you buy smart and pack well. That's with a shopping list including olives and capers not just boring shit.
A cubic metre is a surprisingly large area.
It is the same as a thousand litres or enough space for the beer from two thousand 500ml bottles.
The equivalent of about five pints a day for a year.
Volume, not area!
Fun fact - a cubic metre of water weighs near enough a (metric) tonne.
I've eaten now a full box of Pringles and a pot noodle (large) from my Coronavirus supplies in the last 24 hours..my (Italian) wife is disgusted with me.....
Is it me, or are the British a bit partial to eating absolute shyte? I think it's genetic...
I'm working on the assumption that restrictions are coming and soon. So take away goodness it is whikst we're still allowed. You want to talk about eating absolute shyte? Up here on Teesside we have the Parmo...
Panic buying is a slippery and dubious concept to identify, and generally more favourable to governments and those organising than individuals. What is irrational at one momemt can be immediately rational the next - I think rather the blanket condemnation of it it might be better for governments or supermarkets to focus on the positive - we everyone at some times might have reasons to buy more, but if we operate a more shared and gradual approach supplies are less likely to run out.
In the end there will be wartime style rationing, and things will calm down. Everyone will get their 1-2 rolls per bottom per week.
It's the few weeks of possible chaos/shortage between now and then that need to be bridged. And I mean chaos
You may well be right. This thing's now about getting ahead of the curve: if you spend too much time feeling guilty about what other people won't be getting because you've got it, you just end up becoming other people yourself. Once the panic buying gets past a certain critical mass, the first wave of them stop looking silly and start looking prescient - and, until the retailers and the Government itself take proper action to restore order, it's very much a case of every household for itself.
I have to be a bit choosy about what I stockpile because we've not got the space in the flat, but if we had a spare room I'd be filling it with at least two months' worth of long shelf life supplies.
Oh, and if everyone thinks it's bad now, wait until the order goes out for every vulnerable sick person and everyone over 70 to go into quarantine at once. It'll be like those scenes when Black Friday first arrived in Britain, or possibly even the 2011 London riots. Fisticuffs are inevitable; outright civil disorder and looting is a distinct possibility.
Yes, I think there will be some disorder, which is one reason I am fairly keen to leave London.
BTW I also have a fairly small flat, but I've just accepted that half the living room is going to be full of tinned sardines and M&S penne for a while. Either we will shift it to a bigger place outside London, or we will eat it here. The problem will solve itself in time.
Accepting all this is part of coping, I reckon.
6 months worth of food can fit into just over a cubic meter if you buy smart and pack well. That's with a shopping list including olives and capers not just boring shit.
A cubic metre is a surprisingly large area.
It is the same as a thousand litres or enough space for the beer from two thousand 500ml bottles.
The equivalent of about five pints a day for a year.
Volume, not area!
Fun fact - a cubic metre of water weighs near enough a (metric) tonne.
In theory I think it is supposed to weigh exactly a metric tonne. That is how it was designed.
The original definition of 1g was the mass of 1ml of water. This was the standard until 1799 when it was abandoned because of course the density of water changes with temperature. But whilst they changed the definition they didn't change the relationship.
Panic buying is a slippery and dubious concept to identify, and generally more favourable to governments and those organising than individuals. What is irrational at one momemt can be immediately rational the next - I think rather the blanket condemnation of it it might be better for governments or supermarkets to focus on the positive - we everyone at some times might have reasons to buy more, but if we operate a more shared and gradual approach supplies are less likely to run out.
In the end there will be wartime style rationing, and things will calm down. Everyone will get their 1-2 rolls per bottom per week.
It's the few weeks of possible chaos/shortage between now and then that need to be bridged. And I mean chaos
You may well be right. This thing's now about getting ahead of the curve: if you spend too much time feeling guilty about what other people won't be getting because you've got it, you just end up becoming other people yourself. Once the panic buying gets past a certain critical mass, the first wave of them stop looking silly and start looking prescient - and, until the retailers and the Government itself take proper action to restore order, it's very much a case of every household for itself.
I have to be a bit choosy about what I stockpile because we've not got the space in the flat, but if we had a spare room I'd be filling it with at least two months' worth of long shelf life supplies.
Oh, and if everyone thinks it's bad now, wait until the order goes out for every vulnerable sick person and everyone over 70 to go into quarantine at once. It'll be like those scenes when Black Friday first arrived in Britain, or possibly even the 2011 London riots. Fisticuffs are inevitable; outright civil disorder and looting is a distinct possibility.
Yes, I think there will be some disorder, which is one reason I am fairly keen to leave London.
BTW I also have a fairly small flat, but I've just accepted that half the living room is going to be full of tinned sardines and M&S penne for a while. Either we will shift it to a bigger place outside London, or we will eat it here. The problem will solve itself in time.
Accepting all this is part of coping, I reckon.
6 months worth of food can fit into just over a cubic meter if you buy smart and pack well. That's with a shopping list including olives and capers not just boring shit.
A cubic metre is a surprisingly large area.
It is the same as a thousand litres or enough space for the beer from two thousand 500ml bottles.
The equivalent of about five pints a day for a year.
Volume, not area!
Fun fact - a cubic metre of water weighs near enough a (metric) tonne.
Er... precisely a metric tonne surely, given that a gramme was defined as the weight of 1cc of water in 1795?
I've eaten now a full box of Pringles and a pot noodle (large) from my Coronavirus supplies in the last 24 hours..my (Italian) wife is disgusted with me.....
Is it me, or are the British a bit partial to eating absolute shyte? I think it's genetic...
I'm working on the assumption that restrictions are coming and soon. So take away goodness it is whikst we're still allowed. You want to talk about eating absolute shyte? Up here on Teesside we have the Parmo...
I've eaten now a full box of Pringles and a pot noodle (large) from my Coronavirus supplies in the last 24 hours..my (Italian) wife is disgusted with me.....
Is it me, or are the British a bit partial to eating absolute shyte? I think it's genetic...
I've eaten now a full box of Pringles and a pot noodle (large) from my Coronavirus supplies in the last 24 hours..my (Italian) wife is disgusted with me.....
Is it me, or are the British a bit partial to eating absolute shyte? I think it's genetic...
I'm working on the assumption that restrictions are coming and soon. So take away goodness it is whikst we're still allowed. You want to talk about eating absolute shyte? Up here on Teesside we have the Parmo...
"France announced on Saturday the closing of all “non-indispensable” businesses as of midnight, including restaurants, bars, and movie theaters.
Prime Minister Édouard Philippe said the only exceptions would be grocery stores, drugstores, banks, gas stations, and tobacconists where the French buy official government payment coupons."
Basically, from this article, it appears we can be infected simultaneously with both flu and COVID, and that in theses cases nasopharyngeal swab and sputum samples can repeatedly test negative for COVID, while after admission to ICU bronchial lavage and sputum samples test positive.
I don't know precisely what this means in terms of what is going on with the two viruses, but perhaps a co-infection with flu is crowding COVID out from replicating in the upper respiratory tract. Be interesting to find out more on this.
Keep posting, you're one of the most knowledgeable and thoughtful PBers.
I've eaten now a full box of Pringles and a pot noodle (large) from my Coronavirus supplies in the last 24 hours..my (Italian) wife is disgusted with me.....
Is it me, or are the British a bit partial to eating absolute shyte? I think it's genetic...
I'm working on the assumption that restrictions are coming and soon. So take away goodness it is whikst we're still allowed. You want to talk about eating absolute shyte? Up here on Teesside we have the Parmo...
Coronavirus: Scientists say UK virus strategy is 'risking lives'
In an open letter, a group of 229 scientists from UK universities say the government's current approach will put the NHS under additional stress and "risk many more lives than necessary".
In a separate letter to the government, more than 200 behavioural scientists have questioned the government's argument that starting tougher measures too soon would lead to people not sticking to them just at the point that the epidemic is at its height.
It would have more (any) weight if more than one of them was actually an epidemiologist. Instead, you have professors of pure mathematics and astronomy. Perhaps the CMO and his team know slightly more about what is happening than these people?
Basically, from this article, it appears we can be infected simultaneously with both flu and COVID, and that in theses cases nasopharyngeal swab and sputum samples can repeatedly test negative for COVID, while after admission to ICU bronchial lavage and sputum samples test positive.
I don't know precisely what this means in terms of what is going on with the two viruses, but perhaps a co-infection with flu is crowding COVID out from replicating in the upper respiratory tract. Be interesting to find out more on this.
Keep posting, you're one of the most knowledgeable and thoughtful PBers.
We are fortunate to have timT I read every post.
Why exactly does seasonal influenza die out with season change Tim?
Panic buying is a slippery and dubious concept to identify, and generally more favourable to governments and those organising than individuals. What is irrational at one momemt can be immediately rational the next - I think rather the blanket condemnation of it it might be better for governments or supermarkets to focus on the positive - we everyone at some times might have reasons to buy more, but if we operate a more shared and gradual approach supplies are less likely to run out.
In the end there will be wartime style rationing, and things will calm down. Everyone will get their 1-2 rolls per bottom per week.
It's the few weeks of possible chaos/shortage between now and then that need to be bridged. And I mean chaos
You may well be right. This thing's now about getting ahead of the curve: if you spend too much time feeling guilty about what other people won't be getting because you've got it, you just end up becoming other people yourself. Once the panic buying gets past a certain critical mass, the first wave of them stop looking silly and start looking prescient - and, until the retailers and the Government itself take proper action to restore order, it's very much a case of every household for itself.
I have to be a bit choosy about what I stockpile because we've not got the space in the flat, but if we had a spare room I'd be filling it with at least two months' worth of long shelf life supplies.
Oh, and if everyone thinks it's bad now, wait until the order goes out for every vulnerable sick person and everyone over 70 to go into quarantine at once. It'll be like those scenes when Black Friday first arrived in Britain, or possibly even the 2011 London riots. Fisticuffs are inevitable; outright civil disorder and looting is a distinct possibility.
Yes, I think there will be some disorder, which is one reason I am fairly keen to leave London.
BTW I also have a fairly small flat, but I've just accepted that half the living room is going to be full of tinned sardines and M&S penne for a while. Either we will shift it to a bigger place outside London, or we will eat it here. The problem will solve itself in time.
Accepting all this is part of coping, I reckon.
6 months worth of food can fit into just over a cubic meter if you buy smart and pack well. That's with a shopping list including olives and capers not just boring shit.
A cubic metre is a surprisingly large area.
It is the same as a thousand litres or enough space for the beer from two thousand 500ml bottles.
The equivalent of about five pints a day for a year.
Volume, not area!
Fun fact - a cubic metre of water weighs near enough a (metric) tonne.
Er... precisely a metric tonne surely, given that a gramme was defined as the weight of 1cc of water in 1795?
I've eaten now a full box of Pringles and a pot noodle (large) from my Coronavirus supplies in the last 24 hours..my (Italian) wife is disgusted with me.....
Is it me, or are the British a bit partial to eating absolute shyte? I think it's genetic...
I'm working on the assumption that restrictions are coming and soon. So take away goodness it is whikst we're still allowed. You want to talk about eating absolute shyte? Up here on Teesside we have the Parmo...
The only good thing about Teesside!
I totally get the smoggieland tag - but that pollution is jobs. And the Cleveland Hills are beautiful, as is Saltburn. Though at the moment we are in full research mode about a move to northern Aberdeenshire. Having been up to visit my brother and his family after their move up from Bury I'm sold on the start again somewhere better idea. And CV19 destroying all before it might provide the excuse to do it.
This kind-of blows apart the UK Government strategy
Does it...Did you look at those signatures. When they say 200 academics, there are an absolute load of PhD students in unrelated subjects, no offence to them, but they know square root of f##k all about this (and I have a PhD).
So Trump has had a test for covid-19 and the result will be known "in a day or two". What odds he's positive? I'd say 5/1 against. It'll make a difference to the betting if he is.
This kind-of blows apart the UK Government strategy
No it doesn't. None of them are experts in the relevant field. This is like when that doctor with a vendetta against rugby got a whole load of gender studies doctorates to sign her letter.
This kind-of blows apart the UK Government strategy
Does it...Did you look at those signatures. When they say 200 academics, there are an absolute load of PhD students in unrelated subjects, no offence to them, but they know square root of f##k all about this (and I have a PhD).
I'm actually quite annoyed the BBC didn't make this clear. I got the impression it was going to be 200+ doctors or professors of medicine.
Panic buying is a slippery and dubious concept to identify, and generally more favourable to governments and those organising than individuals. What is irrational at one momemt can be immediately rational the next - I think rather the blanket condemnation of it it might be better for governments or supermarkets to focus on the positive - we everyone at some times might have reasons to buy more, but if we operate a more shared and gradual approach supplies are less likely to run out.
In the end there will be wartime style rationing, and things will calm down. Everyone will get their 1-2 rolls per bottom per week.
It's the few weeks of possible chaos/shortage between now and then that need to be bridged. And I mean chaos
You may well be right. This thing's now about getting ahead of the curve: if you spend too much time feeling guilty about what other people won't be getting because you've got it, you just end up becoming other people yourself. Once the panic buying gets past a certain critical mass, the first wave of them stop looking silly and start looking prescient - and, until the retailers and the Government itself take proper action to restore order, it's very much a case of every household for itself.
I have to be a bit choosy about what I stockpile because we've not got the space in the flat, but if we had a spare room I'd be filling it with at least two months' worth of long shelf life supplies.
Oh, and if everyone thinks it's bad now, wait until the order goes out for every vulnerable sick person and everyone over 70 to go into quarantine at once. It'll be like those scenes when Black Friday first arrived in Britain, or possibly even the 2011 London riots. Fisticuffs are inevitable; outright civil disorder and looting is a distinct possibility.
Yes, I think there will be some disorder, which is one reason I am fairly keen to leave London.
BTW I also have a fairly small flat, but I've just accepted that half the living room is going to be full of tinned sardines and M&S penne for a while. Either we will shift it to a bigger place outside London, or we will eat it here. The problem will solve itself in time.
Accepting all this is part of coping, I reckon.
6 months worth of food can fit into just over a cubic meter if you buy smart and pack well. That's with a shopping list including olives and capers not just boring shit.
A cubic metre is a surprisingly large area.
It is the same as a thousand litres or enough space for the beer from two thousand 500ml bottles.
The equivalent of about five pints a day for a year.
Exactly, the trick is a cubic meter is fucking huge. Of course unless you have you meals planned out for 4 of those 6 months it wouldn't be practical to store in the most compact form as there's not way to 'dig in' to the middle of the cube to retrieve some bourbon biscuits when you want a wee snack.
The German (not the NHS or the US version) healthcare system is probably the best in Europe.
Does feel like there must be a genetic North vs South element at play here as the Italian & increasingly Spanish experience seems so different, and more than can be explained by lack of Protestant work ethic
Either that or we are just a bit further behind on the timeline.
I've eaten now a full box of Pringles and a pot noodle (large) from my Coronavirus supplies in the last 24 hours..my (Italian) wife is disgusted with me.....
Is it me, or are the British a bit partial to eating absolute shyte? I think it's genetic...
I'm working on the assumption that restrictions are coming and soon. So take away goodness it is whikst we're still allowed. You want to talk about eating absolute shyte? Up here on Teesside we have the Parmo...
Basically, from this article, it appears we can be infected simultaneously with both flu and COVID, and that in theses cases nasopharyngeal swab and sputum samples can repeatedly test negative for COVID, while after admission to ICU bronchial lavage and sputum samples test positive.
I don't know precisely what this means in terms of what is going on with the two viruses, but perhaps a co-infection with flu is crowding COVID out from replicating in the upper respiratory tract. Be interesting to find out more on this.
Keep posting, you're one of the most knowledgeable and thoughtful PBers.
We are fortunate to have timT I read every post.
Why exactly does seasonal influenza die out with season change Tim?
At least two factors: 1. The virus survives best outside the body within a temperature and humidity range. 2. Human behavioural patterns - more crowding together inside in winter - affecting transmission
It would have more (any) weight if more than one of them was actually an epidemiologist. Instead, you have professors of pure mathematics and astronomy. Perhaps the CMO and his team know slightly more about what is happening than these people?
They really should be ashamed of themselves. If any of them are remotely qualified they will be able to raise any relevant points in private. This sort of grandstanding crap in the middle of a crisis can only achieve an increase in anxiety for plenty of people who could do without it.
This kind-of blows apart the UK Government strategy
Does it...Did you look at those signatures. When they say 200 academics, there are an absolute load of PhD students in unrelated subjects, no offence to them, but they know square root of f##k all about this (and I have a PhD).
I'm actually quite annoyed the BBC didn't make this clear. I got the impression it was going to be 200+ doctors or professors of medicine.
This is really irresponsible of the BBC. Again these aren't normal times.
I am quite happy for the WHO to chime in, but to have 50+ PhDs in maths and physics be used for political points scoring (and have the nation even further doubting the strategy).
In fact looking through, the vast vast majority are PhD or Post Doc in unrelated fields.
Edit - They have included MSc students !!!
This is bloody worse than the fake news Newsnight scoreboard.
It would have more (any) weight if more than one of them was actually an epidemiologist. Instead, you have professors of pure mathematics and astronomy. Perhaps the CMO and his team know slightly more about what is happening than these people?
They really should be ashamed of themselves. If any of them are remotely qualified they will be able to raise any relevant points in private. This sort of grandstanding crap in the middle of a crisis can only achieve an increase in anxiety for plenty of people who could do without it.
Agreed entirely. Bad enough having people spout bollocks on twitter, but this is on another level.
Panic buying is a slippery and dubious concept to identify, and generally more favourable to governments and those organising than individuals. What is irrational at one momemt can be immediately rational the next - I think rather the blanket condemnation of it it might be better for governments or supermarkets to focus on the positive - we everyone at some times might have reasons to buy more, but if we operate a more shared and gradual approach supplies are less likely to run out.
In the end there will be wartime style rationing, and things will calm down. Everyone will get their 1-2 rolls per bottom per week.
It's the few weeks of possible chaos/shortage between now and then that need to be bridged. And I mean chaos
You may well be right. This thing's now about getting ahead of the curve: if you spend too much time feeling guilty about what other people won't be getting because you've got it, you just end up becoming other people yourself. Once the panic buying gets past a certain critical mass, the first wave of them stop looking silly and start looking prescient - and, until the retailers and the Government itself take proper action to restore order, it's very much a case of every household for itself.
I have to be a bit choosy about what I stockpile because we've not got the space in the flat, but if we had a spare room I'd be filling it with at least two months' worth of long shelf life supplies.
Oh, and if everyone thinks it's bad now, wait until the order goes out for every vulnerable sick person and everyone over 70 to go into quarantine at once. It'll be like those scenes when Black Friday first arrived in Britain, or possibly even the 2011 London riots. Fisticuffs are inevitable; outright civil disorder and looting is a distinct possibility.
Yes, I think there will be some disorder, which is one reason I am fairly keen to leave London.
BTW I also have a fairly small flat, but I've just accepted that half the living room is going to be full of tinned sardines and M&S penne for a while. Either we will shift it to a bigger place outside London, or we will eat it here. The problem will solve itself in time.
Accepting all this is part of coping, I reckon.
6 months worth of food can fit into just over a cubic meter if you buy smart and pack well. That's with a shopping list including olives and capers not just boring shit.
A cubic metre is a surprisingly large area.
It is the same as a thousand litres or enough space for the beer from two thousand 500ml bottles.
The equivalent of about five pints a day for a year.
Volume, not area!
Fun fact - a cubic metre of water weighs near enough a (metric) tonne.
In theory I think it is supposed to weigh exactly a metric tonne. That is how it was designed.
The original definition of 1g was the mass of 1ml of water. This was the standard until 1799 when it was abandoned because of course the density of water changes with temperature. But whilst they changed the definition they didn't change the relationship.
Yes, great summary Richard, hence my "near enough". A lot of non-technical people are very surprised at how much what seems a fairly small volume of water weighs... unless they're into aquariums!
Actually not quite! Water has a density of 0.999972ish g/cm³ at 3.984 °C (can't find a source with more decimal places than that...)
So accurate within 30 parts per million which is still pretty good. Like I said, "near enough"!
Thanks all for the replies. May the grand tradition of pedantry on PB.com stay with us and give us many sources of merry distractions through the trying times ahead
Panic buying is a slippery and dubious concept to identify, and generally more favourable to governments and those organising than individuals. What is irrational at one momemt can be immediately rational the next - I think rather the blanket condemnation of it it might be better for governments or supermarkets to focus on the positive - we everyone at some times might have reasons to buy more, but if we operate a more shared and gradual approach supplies are less likely to run out.
In the end there will be wartime style rationing, and things will calm down. Everyone will get their 1-2 rolls per bottom per week.
It's the few weeks of possible chaos/shortage between now and then that need to be bridged. And I mean chaos
You may well be right. This thing's now about getting ahead of the curve: if you spend too much time feeling guilty about what other people won't be getting because you've got it, you just end up becoming other people yourself. Once the panic buying gets past a certain critical mass, the first wave of them stop looking silly and start looking prescient - and, until the retailers and the Government itself take proper action to restore order, it's very much a case of every household for itself.
I have to be a bit choosy about what I stockpile because we've not got the space in the flat, but if we had a spare room I'd be filling it with at least two months' worth of long shelf life supplies.
Oh, and if everyone thinks it's bad now, wait until the order goes out for every vulnerable sick person and everyone over 70 to go into quarantine at once. It'll be like those scenes when Black Friday first arrived in Britain, or possibly even the 2011 London riots. Fisticuffs are inevitable; outright civil disorder and looting is a distinct possibility.
Yes, I think there will be some disorder, which is one reason I am fairly keen to leave London.
BTW I also have a fairly small flat, but I've just accepted that half the living room is going to be full of tinned sardines and M&S penne for a while. Either we will shift it to a bigger place outside London, or we will eat it here. The problem will solve itself in time.
Accepting all this is part of coping, I reckon.
6 months worth of food can fit into just over a cubic meter if you buy smart and pack well. That's with a shopping list including olives and capers not just boring shit.
A cubic metre is a surprisingly large area.
It is the same as a thousand litres or enough space for the beer from two thousand 500ml bottles.
The equivalent of about five pints a day for a year.
Volume, not area!
Fun fact - a cubic metre of water weighs near enough a (metric) tonne.
Er... precisely a metric tonne surely, given that a gramme was defined as the weight of 1cc of water in 1795?
I've eaten now a full box of Pringles and a pot noodle (large) from my Coronavirus supplies in the last 24 hours..my (Italian) wife is disgusted with me.....
Is it me, or are the British a bit partial to eating absolute shyte? I think it's genetic...
This made me laugh. Thanks, tyson.
I am now on the boiled sweet supplies.....
Seriously, it is shocking how quickly I can overwhelmingly reverse years of reasonably good dietary habits....
This kind-of blows apart the UK Government strategy
Does it...Did you look at those signatures. When they say 200 academics, there are an absolute load of PhD students in unrelated subjects, no offence to them, but they know square root of f##k all about this (and I have a PhD).
I'm actually quite annoyed the BBC didn't make this clear. I got the impression it was going to be 200+ doctors or professors of medicine.
This is really irresponsible of the BBC. Again these aren't normal times.
I am quite happy for the WHO to chime in, but to have 50+ PhDs in maths and physics be used for political points scoring (and have the nation even further doubting the strategy).
In fact looking through, the vast vast majority are PhD or Post Doc in unrelated fields.
Edit - They have included MSc students !!!
MSc students? Bugger off Chris Whitty, now the real experts have arrived.
Coronavirus: Scientists say UK virus strategy is 'risking lives'
In an open letter, a group of 229 scientists from UK universities say the government's current approach will put the NHS under additional stress and "risk many more lives than necessary".
In a separate letter to the government, more than 200 behavioural scientists have questioned the government's argument that starting tougher measures too soon would lead to people not sticking to them just at the point that the epidemic is at its height.
You can see why the government set up a Ministry of Information in 1918 and 1939. It isn't good for national morale to have the experts disagreeing with each other in public.
Interesting letter, and for all I know they are right. But it seems clear that a number of epidemiologists sympathise with the Government's advisers line. The letter is a bit coy about two key things: what sort of distancing measures and for how long; and are they sure this thing can be controlled better by their method and that a lot fewer will die in the long run? Personally I am not persuaded and think Whitty and Vallance may be on the right lines.
This kind-of blows apart the UK Government strategy
No it doesn't. None of them are experts in the relevant field. This is like when that doctor with a vendetta against rugby got a whole load of gender studies doctorates to sign her letter.
Nah the Govt policy is shite. Absolute shite. Everyone's talking about it.
At this rate there are going to be enormous numbers of companies going bust all over the developed world. Not just little ones like bars, the airlines too. Which will create a massive economic problem as swathes of people find themselves unable to pay for food if they can find any in the shops.
Which government is going to launch a universal basic income first...?
The advantage of having our own currency is we can print money to bail them out
So Trump has had a test for covid-19 and the result will be known "in a day or two". What odds he's positive? I'd say 5/1 against. It'll make a difference to the betting if he is.
Comments
Boris asks it: How do I defeat coronavirus?
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8112691/Drunk-British-holidaymakers-clash-police-armed-batons-Benidorm.html
I have a skiing holiday booked for 11 April with my grandchildren in the French Alps with ClubMed. They are still taking bookings so who knows. I booked a year ago.
Happily no Jet2 advertised holiday destinations round there advertised. Phew.
Shit before shower is the correct sequence of morning ablutions.
I think you need to think of the 2 hopes for that holiday.....Bob Hope..and ??
Coronavirus: Scientists say UK virus strategy is 'risking lives'
In an open letter, a group of 229 scientists from UK universities say the government's current approach will put the NHS under additional stress and "risk many more lives than necessary".
In a separate letter to the government, more than 200 behavioural scientists have questioned the government's argument that starting tougher measures too soon would lead to people not sticking to them just at the point that the epidemic is at its height.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51892402
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ZAtePK6gI
Fucking waste of an afternoon...life is too short to read shit books
You wouldn’t believe it (or assumed No Deal Brexit had happened...)
The second letter called on the government to reconsider its stance on "behavioural fatigue" and to share the evidence on which it based this stance.
So they haven't seen the evidence the government used, but are saying it is wrong anyway?
It is the same as a thousand litres or enough space for the beer from two thousand 500ml bottles.
The equivalent of about five pints a day for a year.
Is it me, or are the British a bit partial to eating absolute shyte? I think it's genetic...
You might think I'm cutting him a bit too much slack and if so fair enough, but he's not trying to apply technically correct terminology so amateur epidemiologists (don't mean that in a negative sense, just literally mean the kind of non-professionals who would nevertheless like to look at a log-scale graph and see where trends are) can keep up with where the professionals are at right now, he's got a different target audience here.
Professor of Mathematics
Professor of Applied Mathematics
Lecturer in Optimisation
PhD Student in Pure Mathematics (!)...
There are only two people with epidemiology in their title, and one is a mathematician.
I think the CMO and his advisors are more well suited to be advising on this than these people.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0299_article
Basically, from this article, it appears we can be infected simultaneously with both flu and COVID, and that in theses cases nasopharyngeal swab and sputum samples can repeatedly test negative for COVID, while after admission to ICU bronchial lavage and sputum samples test positive.
I don't know precisely what this means in terms of what is going on with the two viruses, but perhaps a co-infection with flu is crowding COVID out from replicating in the upper respiratory tract. Be interesting to find out more on this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parmo
http://smdsi.quartier-rural.org/histoire/18germ_3.htm
That is fucking disgusting.......with a capital D and yuck....
The original definition of 1g was the mass of 1ml of water. This was the standard until 1799 when it was abandoned because of course the density of water changes with temperature. But whilst they changed the definition they didn't change the relationship.
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/43aa3b/hull-patties-are-the-deep-fried-potato-snack-everyone-should-know-about
How many hits will pbCOM get a day??
This made me laugh. Thanks, tyson.
"France announced on Saturday the closing of all “non-indispensable” businesses as of midnight, including restaurants, bars, and movie theaters.
Prime Minister Édouard Philippe said the only exceptions would be grocery stores, drugstores, banks, gas stations, and tobacconists where the French buy official government payment coupons."
If anyone can excuse my hero-worship of WJE or tolerate a dose of Tomas Pueyo, motivational speaker and marketing guy, then skip 10 mins into this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C98FmoZVbjs
Incidentally the Express clearly didn't see the contest like I did - 'Want to kill 200k people?' Expert left face in hands as he crushes UK's coronavirus plan...
Why exactly does seasonal influenza die out with season change Tim?
I am getting inundated with calls from my Italian connections...most think the UK have gone bonkers with this herd thinking....
But...my friends (and in law family) in flats...the trend of congregating on the balconies and singing is really touching....
1. The virus survives best outside the body within a temperature and humidity range.
2. Human behavioural patterns - more crowding together inside in winter - affecting transmission
I am quite happy for the WHO to chime in, but to have 50+ PhDs in maths and physics be used for political points scoring (and have the nation even further doubting the strategy).
In fact looking through, the vast vast majority are PhD or Post Doc in unrelated fields.
Edit - They have included MSc students !!!
This is bloody worse than the fake news Newsnight scoreboard.
So accurate within 30 parts per million which is still pretty good. Like I said, "near enough"!
Thanks all for the replies. May the grand tradition of pedantry on PB.com stay with us and give us many sources of merry distractions through the trying times ahead
Seriously, it is shocking how quickly I can overwhelmingly reverse years of reasonably good dietary habits....
Does anyone have a favourite anecdote from the SeanT collective ?
I liked 'farmy farm' which related to Gordon Brown's supposed toy farm hobby.
Boris will flip flop - has to.