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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Swing for the moment. How the country shifted at GE2019

SystemSystem Posts: 12,170
edited March 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Swing for the moment. How the country shifted at GE2019

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Comments

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    First! Again...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Ah, happy memories.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    (and of course, thanks to Alastair for the header)
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Third ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    nichomar said:

    Third ?

    Second third.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy in terms of raw numbers.

    "The UK government said on Thursday that it would no longer try to “track and trace” everyone suspected of having the virus. Instead, under plans outlined by Boris Johnson and his medical and scientific advisers, testing would be limited to patients in hospital with serious breathing problems, which may be caused by coronavirus but could also be because of flu. Isolation at home would be a voluntary measure, but anyone with a persistent cough or temperature would be asked to do so"

    If this is the case, then isn't it inevitable that the percentage of positive tests will soar?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/who-urges-countries-to-track-and-trace-every-covid-19-case
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 689
    Uk is 13 days behind Italy. Not 3 weeks.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    isam said:

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy in terms of raw numbers.

    "The UK government said on Thursday that it would no longer try to “track and trace” everyone suspected of having the virus. Instead, under plans outlined by Boris Johnson and his medical and scientific advisers, testing would be limited to patients in hospital with serious breathing problems, which may be caused by coronavirus but could also be because of flu. Isolation at home would be a voluntary measure, but anyone with a persistent cough or temperature would be asked to do so"

    If this is the case, then isn't it inevitable that the percentage of positive tests will soar?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/who-urges-countries-to-track-and-trace-every-covid-19-case
    Good point, although I presume these figures are still taken from before that time, as it takes at least 2 days to process them, plus the one day lag in making them public.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Arlene Forster says when they shut the schools down it will be for 16 weeks. Not shutting them just yet.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited March 2020

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    I’m assuming the comparison with Italy is to do with the dispersement of (critical) cases, not the raw numbers (which anyway contain all sorts of known problems as a comparative guide)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    Why take the risk of them infecting people by making them leave their house for testing, or the risk of having the tester get it and spread it to all those being tested?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    alex_ said:

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    I’m assuming the comparison with Italy is to do with the dispersement of (critical) cases, not the raw numbers
    And that our cases are geographically spread.

    That all been said....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    It appears that President Trump startled Google when he announced on Friday night that it had 1,700 engineers working on a website to help determine who should get coronavirus tests and where.

    "It’s going to be very quickly done...they have made tremendous progress," said the president.

    Google's PR team has since clarified that its sister company, Verily Life Sciences, is working on such a tool, but that it is only at the "early stages of development". The tech firm added that while it intended to start testing it in the San Francisco Bay Area soon - possibly at the start of next week - it would take time to expand its provision across the country
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    JM1 said:

    isam said:

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy in terms of raw numbers.

    "The UK government said on Thursday that it would no longer try to “track and trace” everyone suspected of having the virus. Instead, under plans outlined by Boris Johnson and his medical and scientific advisers, testing would be limited to patients in hospital with serious breathing problems, which may be caused by coronavirus but could also be because of flu. Isolation at home would be a voluntary measure, but anyone with a persistent cough or temperature would be asked to do so"

    If this is the case, then isn't it inevitable that the percentage of positive tests will soar?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/who-urges-countries-to-track-and-trace-every-covid-19-case
    isam said:

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy in terms of raw numbers.

    "The UK government said on Thursday that it would no longer try to “track and trace” everyone suspected of having the virus. Instead, under plans outlined by Boris Johnson and his medical and scientific advisers, testing would be limited to patients in hospital with serious breathing problems, which may be caused by coronavirus but could also be because of flu. Isolation at home would be a voluntary measure, but anyone with a persistent cough or temperature would be asked to do so"

    If this is the case, then isn't it inevitable that the percentage of positive tests will soar?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/who-urges-countries-to-track-and-trace-every-covid-19-case
    isam said:

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy in terms of raw numbers.

    "The UK government said on Thursday that it would no longer try to “track and trace” everyone suspected of having the virus. Instead, under plans outlined by Boris Johnson and his medical and scientific advisers, testing would be limited to patients in hospital with serious breathing problems, which may be caused by coronavirus but could also be because of flu. Isolation at home would be a voluntary measure, but anyone with a persistent cough or temperature would be asked to do so"

    If this is the case, then isn't it inevitable that the percentage of positive tests will soar?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/who-urges-countries-to-track-and-trace-every-covid-19-case
    Yes; a large increase, although less as a fraction of positive tests (5000 today as opposed to 3500 yesterday) but still a large number. I think we have to be realistic though: to slow this pandemic down we are going to have to be working at home for months / schools shut for months (likely until August - i.e., no summer term for students).
    So clearly they have ramped up testing capacity from 1000 a day to 5000. I can only presume they are going to redeploy that to test front line staff.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    I’m assuming the comparison with Italy is to do with the dispersement of (critical) cases, not the raw numbers
    And that our cases are geographically spread.

    That all been said....
    That’s what I meant by disbursement
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    IanB2 said:

    It appears that President Trump startled Google when he announced on Friday night that it had 1,700 engineers working on a website to help determine who should get coronavirus tests and where.

    "It’s going to be very quickly done...they have made tremendous progress," said the president.

    Google's PR team has since clarified that its sister company, Verily Life Sciences, is working on such a tool, but that it is only at the "early stages of development". The tech firm added that while it intended to start testing it in the San Francisco Bay Area soon - possibly at the start of next week - it would take time to expand its provision across the country

    Putting aside Trump BS, pretty disappointing Google and alike aren't throwing resources at this. They surely could get the sort of website up the with the flow chart was talking about (and what we have) in a day or two with some decent coders on it. That's the sort of things they do with these weekend hackathons all the time.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Spain was on 1200 on 9th only 5 days ago!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    It seems Boris has decided on what in tax terms would be a progressive approach rather than a flat rate?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1238824050924883968?s=20

    Like inviting 15-20 of the top CEOs to stand within a couple of metres of you and shaking each of their hands?
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,958

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    Why should we though? The best thing is for those people to stay at home. Most will recover. Sending out someone to test them diverts resources from those whose lives are in danger.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    nichomar said:

    Spain was on 1200 on 9th only 5 days ago!

    But a bit like Italy, isn't Madrid a massive hot spot where a significant majority of the cases are?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    JM1 said:

    I think we have to be realistic though: to slow this pandemic down we are going to have to be working at home for months / schools shut for months (likely until August - i.e., no summer term for students).

    Most people can't work from home, and the schools won't be shut unless the Government's hand is forced (i.e. if the measures to defend the elderly are ineffective, there's an imminent danger of the NHS breaking down and it's thought that the benefits of sending the kids home (in terms of slowing the spread of the disease) would outweigh the drawbacks (in terms of forcing key workers to go home to look after them.)

    I may be misunderstanding the intentions of the Government, but if I'm reading them correctly I think they'd rather the schools continued to operate for the duration, even if there aren't enough teachers left and we end up with huge classes being taught in sports and assembly halls. There has to be enormous concern over sending kids home in terms of the impact on the economy, pressure on public services, and the consequences of desperate working families dumping their children on Granny and Grandad when they're meant to be self-isolating.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Essexit said:

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    Why should we though? The best thing is for those people to stay at home. Most will recover. Sending out someone to test them diverts resources from those whose lives are in danger.
    What about the drive-through testing that South Korea has implemented? We started rolling this out and then have suddenly stopped.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    Interesting. The next non-Tory majority Gvt might have a spread of seats we used to associate with the Tories. That concept makes my head hurt.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1238824050924883968?s=20

    Like inviting 15-20 of the top CEOs to stand within a couple of metres of you and shaking each of their hands?

    That was really incredible, and not in a good way.

    I think these world leaders are so used to mixing rubbing shoulders and glad handing they are amongst those right at the top of the list needing to change their behaviour. Rutte the Dutch PM was another example earlier in the week too.

    Parliament here with everyone packed like sardines is hardly a great example.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123

    Essexit said:

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    Why should we though? The best thing is for those people to stay at home. Most will recover. Sending out someone to test them diverts resources from those whose lives are in danger.
    What about the drive-through testing that South Korea has implemented? We started rolling this out and then have suddenly stopped.
    That was the contain phase. We ain't doing contain anymore we are delaying.
  • Alistair said:

    Arlene Forster says when they shut the schools down it will be for 16 weeks. Not shutting them just yet.

    For our schools that's like them closing for Summer Holidays on 7th May...
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    edited March 2020
    Thanks @AlastairMeeks

    Could the conservatives have swung too far? Done a New Labour. Alienated their fiscally responsible heartlands for the promise of the supposed ideal: Further right for social issues and left for a looser hold on public spending.

    So the Lib Dems take up the slack in the south as centre ground voters buoyed by the presence of DPP Keir, vote for a close European partnership and less anti migrant rhetoric. And Labour re-invigorated reabsorb the red wall now Corbyn is no longer the figure head.

    To me this would be a thing of dreams. A southern, conservative minded voting block that is now alienated by their once fiscally restrained party swinging in the populist wind.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Good news, or perhaps not, for those with kids...Frozen 2 will make an early debut on Disney+

    Just what you need when you are locked in for 2 months....LET IT GOOOOOOOOOO, LET IT GOOOOOOOOOO...
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    nichomar said:

    Spain was on 1200 on 9th only 5 days ago!

    But a bit like Italy, isn't Madrid a massive hot spot where a significant majority of the cases are?
    I don’t think the numbers by country are directly comparable. Too many variables.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914

    IanB2 said:

    It appears that President Trump startled Google when he announced on Friday night that it had 1,700 engineers working on a website to help determine who should get coronavirus tests and where.

    "It’s going to be very quickly done...they have made tremendous progress," said the president.

    Google's PR team has since clarified that its sister company, Verily Life Sciences, is working on such a tool, but that it is only at the "early stages of development". The tech firm added that while it intended to start testing it in the San Francisco Bay Area soon - possibly at the start of next week - it would take time to expand its provision across the country

    Putting aside Trump BS, pretty disappointing Google and alike aren't throwing resources at this. They surely could get the sort of website up the with the flow chart was talking about (and what we have) in a day or two with some decent coders on it. That's the sort of things they do with these weekend hackathons all the time.
    Yes, so easy for non-techies like Trump (and yourself?) to want something developed in a 'day or two'. What I think is being talked about id a web application rather than a common or garden website.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,958

    Essexit said:

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    Why should we though? The best thing is for those people to stay at home. Most will recover. Sending out someone to test them diverts resources from those whose lives are in danger.
    What about the drive-through testing that South Korea has implemented? We started rolling this out and then have suddenly stopped.
    If the primary goal is to save the lives of the vulnerable, is there any point in mass testing? Obviously it should be available for the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions but even drive-through testing uses finite resources.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    We are moving to a policy of testing people in hospital - who will most definitely have symptoms.

    Testing people who are home, ill, would mean one of

    1) asking them to travel to a testing location.
    2) sending people to their home to test them.
    3) asking people to draw blood by themselves and post it?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Interesting. The next non-Tory majority Gvt might have a spread of seats we used to associate with the Tories. That concept makes my head hurt.

    And here's another: the English result doesn't conform as much to either the traditional post-War electoral picture or to the conventional North/South divide as it does to the political dispensation under Alfred the Great.

    Aside from the odd outlier (notably the pale of Cambridge,) the new Toryland bears more than a passing resemblance to the Danelaw.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    IanB2 said:

    It appears that President Trump startled Google when he announced on Friday night that it had 1,700 engineers working on a website to help determine who should get coronavirus tests and where.

    "It’s going to be very quickly done...they have made tremendous progress," said the president.

    Google's PR team has since clarified that its sister company, Verily Life Sciences, is working on such a tool, but that it is only at the "early stages of development". The tech firm added that while it intended to start testing it in the San Francisco Bay Area soon - possibly at the start of next week - it would take time to expand its provision across the country

    Putting aside Trump BS, pretty disappointing Google and alike aren't throwing resources at this. They surely could get the sort of website up the with the flow chart was talking about (and what we have) in a day or two with some decent coders on it. That's the sort of things they do with these weekend hackathons all the time.
    Yes, so easy for non-techies like Trump (and yourself?) to want something developed in a 'day or two'. What I think is being talked about id a web application rather than a common or garden website.
    And if all it’s doing doing is replicating a basic flowchart in online form , could you just look at the flowchart?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    Why should we though? The best thing is for those people to stay at home. Most will recover. Sending out someone to test them diverts resources from those whose lives are in danger.
    What about the drive-through testing that South Korea has implemented? We started rolling this out and then have suddenly stopped.
    If the primary goal is to save the lives of the vulnerable, is there any point in mass testing? Obviously it should be available for the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions but even drive-through testing uses finite resources.
    Well the WHO don't like it. I think my point would be if we are using a data driven approach, how will we know the spread other than when A&E fills up, which is probably too late.

    My sneaking suspicion is perhaps there will be still community sampling going on, but they don't want to do what America has done and promised everybody who wants a test gets one and then completely overload the system and not be able to test front line staff.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    Why should we though? The best thing is for those people to stay at home. Most will recover. Sending out someone to test them diverts resources from those whose lives are in danger.
    What about the drive-through testing that South Korea has implemented? We started rolling this out and then have suddenly stopped.
    If the primary goal is to save the lives of the vulnerable, is there any point in mass testing? Obviously it should be available for the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions but even drive-through testing uses finite resources.
    It just dawned on me, so I will post it again, that what Boris has done is like a progressive tax scheme - those in need are given more state resources than those who can afford to look after themselves. Maybe this is why some left wing people on here are ok with it?

    To treat everyone the same would be like a flat rate tax system. I like it!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    What is the govt proposing for young but immune compromised individuals?

    I know a few of those.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020

    IanB2 said:

    It appears that President Trump startled Google when he announced on Friday night that it had 1,700 engineers working on a website to help determine who should get coronavirus tests and where.

    "It’s going to be very quickly done...they have made tremendous progress," said the president.

    Google's PR team has since clarified that its sister company, Verily Life Sciences, is working on such a tool, but that it is only at the "early stages of development". The tech firm added that while it intended to start testing it in the San Francisco Bay Area soon - possibly at the start of next week - it would take time to expand its provision across the country

    Putting aside Trump BS, pretty disappointing Google and alike aren't throwing resources at this. They surely could get the sort of website up the with the flow chart was talking about (and what we have) in a day or two with some decent coders on it. That's the sort of things they do with these weekend hackathons all the time.
    Yes, so easy for non-techies like Trump (and yourself?) to want something developed in a 'day or two'. What I think is being talked about id a web application rather than a common or garden website.
    I work in tech.

    In this situation it is probably a concern of doing a quick and dirty job that will initially break down and a PR disaster. It is a difficult call, but I would be tempted to go for the move fast and break stuff, go hackathon style and get something up asap and then firefight it.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    Spain was on 1200 on 9th only 5 days ago!

    But a bit like Italy, isn't Madrid a massive hot spot where a significant majority of the cases are?
    En cuanto a los casos confirmados, la Comunidad de Madrid acumula el mayor número de contagios con 2.940. Le siguen País Vasco (521) Cataluña (509), Andalucía (304), La Rioja (278) y Castilla-La Mancha (289). Se han identificado 223 en Castilla y León, 188 en la Comunidad Valenciana, 146 en Navarra, 115 en Galicia, 121 casos en Aragón, 101 en Asturias, 90 casos en las Islas Canarias, 66 en Extremadura, 51 en Murcia -uno de ellos un bebé de cinco meses-, 44 en Baleares, 34 en Cantabria y tres en Melilla. Ceuta no tienen casos de momento.

    Yes the hot spots drive the numbers London is over 150 I think but not sure if that was based on the new figures.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Our Gov't has been caught asleep at the wheel, we could still move to a South Korean approach.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489
    There are probably about 10-15k cases in the UK right now.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    https://www.twitter.com/BMG_Bund/status/1238780849652465664
    Attention fake news
    It is alleged and quickly spread that the Federal Ministry of Health / the Federal Government would soon announce massive further restrictions on public life. That's not true!
    Please help stop it from spreading.

    Germany is with us.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Our Gov't has been caught asleep at the wheel, we could still move to a South Korean approach.

    No its the opposite, they started down the path of the South Korean approach and have pivoted. They had already set up drive through testing at a number of hospitals (with the plan to roll out everywhere) , built testing capacity and were on course for capacity of 10k+ a day (similar to South Korean), but now they have decided this isn't the path they wish to choose.

    We were testing far more than basically the rest of Europe, but now it is dedicated to front line staff and hospitalized.

    If this is the correct decision, we know the WHO don't like.
  • JM1 said:

    Alistair said:

    Arlene Forster says when they shut the schools down it will be for 16 weeks. Not shutting them just yet.

    For our schools that's like them closing for Summer Holidays on 7th May...
    I think that, most likely, we break up a week before Easter and then there is no Easter term (i.e., schools shut for April, May, June, July and back for the new school year). How childcare arrangements work is going to be a challenge, but we will likely move to this more lockdown like phase in a week or so I think.
    My eldest is weeks away from his A-Levels. University place secured requiring grades that won't get sat. I assume universities will need to replenish their student numbers in September regardless so will they all offer based on predicted grades...?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    edited March 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Our Gov't has been caught asleep at the wheel, we could still move to a South Korean approach.

    Those donkeys will never do the right thing, you can be sure they will be looking after themselves though.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    IanB2 said:

    It appears that President Trump startled Google when he announced on Friday night that it had 1,700 engineers working on a website to help determine who should get coronavirus tests and where.

    "It’s going to be very quickly done...they have made tremendous progress," said the president.

    Google's PR team has since clarified that its sister company, Verily Life Sciences, is working on such a tool, but that it is only at the "early stages of development". The tech firm added that while it intended to start testing it in the San Francisco Bay Area soon - possibly at the start of next week - it would take time to expand its provision across the country

    Putting aside Trump BS, pretty disappointing Google and alike aren't throwing resources at this. They surely could get the sort of website up the with the flow chart was talking about (and what we have) in a day or two with some decent coders on it. That's the sort of things they do with these weekend hackathons all the time.
    Yes, so easy for non-techies like Trump (and yourself?) to want something developed in a 'day or two'. What I think is being talked about id a web application rather than a common or garden website.
    I work in tech.

    In this situation it is probably a concern of doing a quick and dirty job that will initially break down and a PR disaster. It is a difficult call, but I would be tempted to go for the move fast and break stuff, go hackathon style and get something up asap and then firefight it.
    Leaving that aside it seems crazy to set up an online tool that “tells” people if they “should” get a test if there isn’t the capacity to receive it. Something that tells them whether they should isolate, contact health services... or carry on as normal would be more helpful?
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,958

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    Why should we though? The best thing is for those people to stay at home. Most will recover. Sending out someone to test them diverts resources from those whose lives are in danger.
    What about the drive-through testing that South Korea has implemented? We started rolling this out and then have suddenly stopped.
    If the primary goal is to save the lives of the vulnerable, is there any point in mass testing? Obviously it should be available for the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions but even drive-through testing uses finite resources.
    Well the WHO don't like it. I think my point would be if we are using a data driven approach, how will we know the spread other than when A&E fills up, which is probably too late.

    My sneaking suspicion is perhaps there will be still community sampling going on, but they don't want to do what America has done and promised everybody who wants a test gets one and then completely overload the system and not be able to test front line staff.
    Between confirmed cases among high-risk individuals and some community sampling we'll probably get a good enough idea of the overall spread. It seems a better approach than testing every young, fit person for the sake of accurate numbers. Of course there are anti-Tory hardliners on social media who think that it's all a fix to keep the numbers down, but the concept of finite resources is probably lost on them.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    What is the govt proposing for young but immune compromised individuals?

    I know a few of those.

    When the time comes for the old to self-isolate (probably very soon) I expect that the same instruction will go out to medically vulnerable people with a number of specific conditions as well.

    My principal work colleague has lupus, and we're expecting and preparing for her to be sent home and to be gone for months.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    If we want to know how prevalent the disease is then we need testing of the very mildly symptomatic. The Gov'ts clearly taking a view that it's an iceberg infection but they need the data to back it up.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    JM1 said:

    Alistair said:

    Arlene Forster says when they shut the schools down it will be for 16 weeks. Not shutting them just yet.

    For our schools that's like them closing for Summer Holidays on 7th May...
    I think that, most likely, we break up a week before Easter and then there is no Easter term (i.e., schools shut for April, May, June, July and back for the new school year). How childcare arrangements work is going to be a challenge, but we will likely move to this more lockdown like phase in a week or so I think.
    My eldest is weeks away from his A-Levels. University place secured requiring grades that won't get sat. I assume universities will need to replenish their student numbers in September regardless so will they all offer based on predicted grades...?

    Surely “closing schools” doesn’t have to be universal? Could exclude key exam groups?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    Afternoon all :)

    Vaguely on-topic, in this most febrile of times, it's incredibly dangerous to make bold predictions for four weeks down the road let alone four years.

    I'm struck by the LD recovery in central southern England but as Antifrank says, it's from the very low base of 2015 and 2017. That said, I look at Winchester as a probable LD gain next time .

    The main relevance of 2019 for the party was to re-position itself as the principal beneficiaries of any collapse in Conservative vote share in 2024 in a small number of seats.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    Interesting. The next non-Tory majority Gvt might have a spread of seats we used to associate with the Tories. That concept makes my head hurt.

    And here's another: the English result doesn't conform as much to either the traditional post-War electoral picture or to the conventional North/South divide as it does to the political dispensation under Alfred the Great.

    Aside from the odd outlier (notably the pale of Cambridge,) the new Toryland bears more than a passing resemblance to the Danelaw.
    So if we do eventually end up in the EEA, it’ll be Cnut’s kingdoms reborn.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    If we want to know how prevalent the disease is then we need testing of the very mildly symptomatic. The Gov'ts clearly taking a view that it's an iceberg infection but they need the data to back it up.

    They have decided that a) China figures aren't true, b) no vaccine is coming, c) it is seasonal and d) death rates are <1% rather than 3-4% because its an iceberg infection.

    That is a huge call, its massively risky and could be wrong, but it isn't because they were asleep at the wheel. They have been developing this plan from the start of January and I am sure we aren't going to be fully informed of every single move that goes on (like war time).
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Our Gov't has been caught asleep at the wheel, we could still move to a South Korean approach.

    Have they? It seems to me as though they've been very forthcoming about what they are doing, and why certain 'obvious' actions have not yet been taken.
    Quite. Many just don’t want to listen.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    edited March 2020

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    2 at a maximum. Although it is an open question what the effect of the change of policy on testing is.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    So clearly they have ramped up testing capacity from 1000 a day to 5000. I can only presume they are going to redeploy that to test front line staff.

    What I heard is that they have put more resource into the testing such that the period between test and result is now less than 48 hours rather than 5 days.

    Impact of that, today, hence a bigger jump in the numbers than would otherwise have been the case.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    We are moving to a policy of testing people in hospital - who will most definitely have symptoms.

    Testing people who are home, ill, would mean one of

    1) asking them to travel to a testing location.
    2) sending people to their home to test them.
    3) asking people to draw blood by themselves and post it?
    There's a company in Derbyshire who have a home test kit that can be posted. Finger prick of blood placed into the little device: looks like a pregnancy tester.

    Company told local news that NHS aren't interested.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited March 2020

    JM1 said:

    Alistair said:

    Arlene Forster says when they shut the schools down it will be for 16 weeks. Not shutting them just yet.

    For our schools that's like them closing for Summer Holidays on 7th May...
    I think that, most likely, we break up a week before Easter and then there is no Easter term (i.e., schools shut for April, May, June, July and back for the new school year). How childcare arrangements work is going to be a challenge, but we will likely move to this more lockdown like phase in a week or so I think.
    My eldest is weeks away from his A-Levels. University place secured requiring grades that won't get sat. I assume universities will need to replenish their student numbers in September regardless so will they all offer based on predicted grades...?

    **************************

    (Edit - I’ve broken the quotes).

    They might end up giving out a-levels based on coursework, teacher views, and mock exams I guess. If the exam boards take the decision it makes life easier for Unis, and there are precedents for awarding in that way for sick kids etc.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    .

    Pulpstar said:

    If we want to know how prevalent the disease is then we need testing of the very mildly symptomatic. The Gov'ts clearly taking a view that it's an iceberg infection but they need the data to back it up.

    They have decided that a) China figures aren't true, b) no vaccine is coming, c) it is seasonal and d) death rates are <1% rather than 3-4% because its an iceberg infection.

    That is a huge call, its massively risky and could be wrong, but it isn't because they were asleep at the wheel. They have been developing this plan from the start of January and I am sure we aren't going to be fully informed of every single move that goes on (like war time). </p>
    Aren't they just focussing on treating the only people who seem to be dying of it?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    We are moving to a policy of testing people in hospital - who will most definitely have symptoms.

    Testing people who are home, ill, would mean one of

    1) asking them to travel to a testing location.
    2) sending people to their home to test them.
    3) asking people to draw blood by themselves and post it?
    There's a company in Derbyshire who have a home test kit that can be posted. Finger prick of blood placed into the little device: looks like a pregnancy tester.

    Company told local news that NHS aren't interested.
    Is that a sufficient volume for the test?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    We are moving to a policy of testing people in hospital - who will most definitely have symptoms.

    Testing people who are home, ill, would mean one of

    1) asking them to travel to a testing location.
    2) sending people to their home to test them.
    3) asking people to draw blood by themselves and post it?
    There's a company in Derbyshire who have a home test kit that can be posted. Finger prick of blood placed into the little device: looks like a pregnancy tester.

    Company told local news that NHS aren't interested.
    There are now 14 companies about to offer tests. I believe the problem with all of them is you have to be 2-3 days into showing symptoms for it to test positive and nowhere near as accurate as the gold standard test.

    They are being rolled out to pharmacy staff next week, to provide them with instant testing abilities and then potentially available to the wider public.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    Pulpstar said:

    If we want to know how prevalent the disease is then we need testing of the very mildly symptomatic. The Gov'ts clearly taking a view that it's an iceberg infection but they need the data to back it up.

    They have decided that a) China figures aren't true, b) no vaccine is coming, c) it is seasonal and d) death rates are <1% rather than 3-4% because its an iceberg infection.

    That is a huge call, its massively risky and could be wrong, but it isn't because they were asleep at the wheel. They have been developing this plan from the start of January and I am sure we aren't going to be fully informed of every single move that goes on (like war time). </p>
    Let's see where we are in a month's time. Going from allowing a 250,000 person event to the shortly incoming ban on anything over 1000 people in under a week looks like a screeching U-turn though.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    We are moving to a policy of testing people in hospital - who will most definitely have symptoms.

    Testing people who are home, ill, would mean one of

    1) asking them to travel to a testing location.
    2) sending people to their home to test them.
    3) asking people to draw blood by themselves and post it?
    I believe that the test is done by swab, but the general point that I think you're trying to make - i.e. that testing everybody who wants a test is impractical on several different levels - is perfectly sound. You don't want to be wasting finite healthcare resources on sending people round the houses to take samples, you certainly don't want symptomatic individuals who should be self-isolating travelling to testing centres, and you don't want a vast backlog of needless samples from the mildly poorly and the worried well swamping the system.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    We are moving to a policy of testing people in hospital - who will most definitely have symptoms.

    Testing people who are home, ill, would mean one of

    1) asking them to travel to a testing location.
    2) sending people to their home to test them.
    3) asking people to draw blood by themselves and post it?
    There's a company in Derbyshire who have a home test kit that can be posted. Finger prick of blood placed into the little device: looks like a pregnancy tester.

    Company told local news that NHS aren't interested.
    There are now 14 companies about to offer tests. I believe the problem with all of them is you have to be 2-3 days into showing symptoms for it to test positive.
    On average, each infected person infects another every three days.

    So, these tests are still useful because they potentially cut the number of people you infect from four to one or two.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If we want to know how prevalent the disease is then we need testing of the very mildly symptomatic. The Gov'ts clearly taking a view that it's an iceberg infection but they need the data to back it up.

    They have decided that a) China figures aren't true, b) no vaccine is coming, c) it is seasonal and d) death rates are <1% rather than 3-4% because its an iceberg infection.

    That is a huge call, its massively risky and could be wrong, but it isn't because they were asleep at the wheel. They have been developing this plan from the start of January and I am sure we aren't going to be fully informed of every single move that goes on (like war time). </p>
    Let's see where we are in a month's time. Going from allowing a 250,000 person event to the shortly incoming ban on anything over 1000 people in under a week looks like a screeching U-turn though.
    I am 99% certain they were going to pull this lever on this on Wednesday, but something changed. They briefed the media that Hannock was going to make a big announcement at 7pm, then he gave a nothing speech other than to slip out Monday is a new emergency bill.

    It was presumed that perhaps the Trump announcement caused issues, but they then they briefed the Times and Newsnight, its coming Thursday, and they didn't do it (despite Sturgeon being in the same meeting and coming out and saying it).

    It could be a legal issue, could be to do with compensation for all the companies they would put out of business, could be down to trying to enforce this.

    Something in the background happened.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If we want to know how prevalent the disease is then we need testing of the very mildly symptomatic. The Gov'ts clearly taking a view that it's an iceberg infection but they need the data to back it up.

    They have decided that a) China figures aren't true, b) no vaccine is coming, c) it is seasonal and d) death rates are <1% rather than 3-4% because its an iceberg infection.

    That is a huge call, its massively risky and could be wrong, but it isn't because they were asleep at the wheel. They have been developing this plan from the start of January and I am sure we aren't going to be fully informed of every single move that goes on (like war time). </p>
    Let's see where we are in a month's time. Going from allowing a 250,000 person event to the shortly incoming ban on anything over 1000 people in under a week looks like a screeching U-turn though.
    Except that it was discussed at length in the press conference and suggested that the step would be taken.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    And here's another: the English result doesn't conform as much to either the traditional post-War electoral picture or to the conventional North/South divide as it does to the political dispensation under Alfred the Great.

    Aside from the odd outlier (notably the pale of Cambridge,) the new Toryland bears more than a passing resemblance to the Danelaw.

    Tories. Dragging us back to the Middle Ages.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited March 2020
    There is indeed a reshaping going on, and with a big though not titanic majority the reshaping in favour of others may take some time. No amount of comfort over supposed winning the argument as the Tories change financial strategy will change that.
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If we want to know how prevalent the disease is then we need testing of the very mildly symptomatic. The Gov'ts clearly taking a view that it's an iceberg infection but they need the data to back it up.

    They have decided that a) China figures aren't true, b) no vaccine is coming, c) it is seasonal and d) death rates are <1% rather than 3-4% because its an iceberg infection.

    That is a huge call, its massively risky and could be wrong, but it isn't because they were asleep at the wheel. They have been developing this plan from the start of January and I am sure we aren't going to be fully informed of every single move that goes on (like war time). </p>
    Let's see where we are in a month's time. Going from allowing a 250,000 person event to the shortly incoming ban on anything over 1000 people in under a week looks like a screeching U-turn though.
    No it doesn't, it looks like a progression or escalation of strategy. It might well be they are speeding actions up, anticipated things incorrectly, but the path is not reversed it seems.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    We are moving to a policy of testing people in hospital - who will most definitely have symptoms.

    Testing people who are home, ill, would mean one of

    1) asking them to travel to a testing location.
    2) sending people to their home to test them.
    3) asking people to draw blood by themselves and post it?
    There's a company in Derbyshire who have a home test kit that can be posted. Finger prick of blood placed into the little device: looks like a pregnancy tester.

    Company told local news that NHS aren't interested.
    There are now 14 companies about to offer tests. I believe the problem with all of them is you have to be 2-3 days into showing symptoms for it to test positive.
    On average, each infected person infects another every three days.

    So, these tests are still useful because they potentially cut the number of people you infect from four to one or two.
    Yes, I am a little confused why we don't do the funnel approach of South Korea and have say the army do the road side "inaccurate" tests. If nothing else it would provide a huge amount of extra data.

    Seeing the report on CH4, it is just a prick test and then put into some solution. No real fancy equipment required and didn't look like you had to be a highly trained lab tech to administer it.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Is there some media misunderstanding between the timing of the bill (and measures therein) and timing of actual deployment of those measures?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    samples from the mildly poorly

    Those are precisely the samples you do want I reckon to check the iceberg theory.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,076
    The number of tests in the last 24 hours was a little under 5,000. That's a big increase, which suggests the government is quietly increasing testing while trying to focus on those most at risk.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    kinabalu said:

    And here's another: the English result doesn't conform as much to either the traditional post-War electoral picture or to the conventional North/South divide as it does to the political dispensation under Alfred the Great.

    Aside from the odd outlier (notably the pale of Cambridge,) the new Toryland bears more than a passing resemblance to the Danelaw.

    Tories. Dragging us back to the Middle Ages.
    For me, the last proper king was Hathacnut.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited March 2020
    alex_ said:

    Surely “closing schools” doesn’t have to be universal? Could exclude key exam groups?

    I have been pondering this option. I really don’t see what the point of it would be. For one thing, the majority of students would have younger or older siblings that would still be at risk in such a scenario.

    I can see a longer Easter, but not a lockdown through the whole summer. If it’s so serious that is required, we’re talking about a Catch-22 style situation where such measures would probably not help anyway.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489
    Chameleon said:

    https://www.twitter.com/BMG_Bund/status/1238780849652465664
    Attention fake news
    It is alleged and quickly spread that the Federal Ministry of Health / the Federal Government would soon announce massive further restrictions on public life. That's not true!
    Please help stop it from spreading.

    Germany is with us.

    Whenever I see 'Achtung!' from an official German source I only think of one thing.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Ratters said:

    The number of tests in the last 24 hours was a little under 5,000. That's a big increase, which suggests the government is quietly increasing testing while trying to focus on those most at risk.

    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1238837700943323136?s=20
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489
    And why would the race continue after that?

    Anyone got a link to the constitution of the Democratic Party?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited March 2020

    They might end up giving out a-levels based on coursework, teacher views, and mock exams I guess. If the exam boards take the decision it makes life easier for Unis, and there are precedents for awarding in that way for sick kids etc.

    Only six A-levels still have coursework. What about the others?

    Mocks are a very poor substitute - it’s not as though all schools even do them any more.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489

    Interesting. The next non-Tory majority Gvt might have a spread of seats we used to associate with the Tories. That concept makes my head hurt.

    And here's another: the English result doesn't conform as much to either the traditional post-War electoral picture or to the conventional North/South divide as it does to the political dispensation under Alfred the Great.

    Aside from the odd outlier (notably the pale of Cambridge,) the new Toryland bears more than a passing resemblance to the Danelaw.
    So if we do eventually end up in the EEA, it’ll be Cnut’s kingdoms reborn.
    Only a Cnut would take us back into the EU.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    rcs1000 said:

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    We are moving to a policy of testing people in hospital - who will most definitely have symptoms.

    Testing people who are home, ill, would mean one of

    1) asking them to travel to a testing location.
    2) sending people to their home to test them.
    3) asking people to draw blood by themselves and post it?
    There's a company in Derbyshire who have a home test kit that can be posted. Finger prick of blood placed into the little device: looks like a pregnancy tester.

    Company told local news that NHS aren't interested.
    There are now 14 companies about to offer tests. I believe the problem with all of them is you have to be 2-3 days into showing symptoms for it to test positive.
    On average, each infected person infects another every three days.

    So, these tests are still useful because they potentially cut the number of people you infect from four to one or two.
    Yes, I am a little confused why we don't do the funnel approach of South Korea and have say the army do the road side "inaccurate" tests. If nothing else it would provide a huge amount of extra data.

    Seeing the report on CH4, it is just a prick test and then put into some solution. No real fancy equipment required and didn't look like you had to be a highly trained lab tech to administer it.
    Sounds like it could be massively scaled up then, unless they are worried about a large number of false positives/negatives?
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited March 2020
    FPT
    RobD said:

    felix said:

    Sebastian Payne
    @SebastianEPayne
    ·
    15m
    He didn’t say that and it’s dangerous to spread lies in a national crisis
    😡
    . This tweet should be deleted immediately.
    Quote Tweet
    Carole Cadwalladr
    @carolecadwalla
    · 17h
    Director of World Health Organisation: Britain’s strategy is ‘wrong & dangerous’

    https://theguardian.com/world/2020/mar


    Both she and her 'newspaper' are pond life scum!

    Why am I not surprised she is spreading fake news on this?
    lol Carole

    Carole Cadwalladr
    @carolecadwalla
    Even NHS is breaking ranks. This is my local surgery. It’s taken a unilateral decision to ban in-patient visits until after phone consultation. This is not following government advice but it’s balancing risks to staff & vulnerable patients in absence of govt leadership

    "Dear Patient, due to COVID 19 outbreak all appointments at your GP surgery from 16th March 2020 will initially be a telephone consultation. Visit nhs.uk for updated advice. Thank you"
    Pasted as text because of her habit of deleting tweets (without acknowledgement or apology) once she's realised that they're totally insupportable. The thread beneath was a mixture of people explaining this is BoJo's strategy to wipe out the elderly, Dom's strategy to unleash a wave of eugenics, or just what everyone else's GP was doing too because...

    https://twitter.com/catherine5news/status/1238808367512129537
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Interesting. The next non-Tory majority Gvt might have a spread of seats we used to associate with the Tories. That concept makes my head hurt.

    And here's another: the English result doesn't conform as much to either the traditional post-War electoral picture or to the conventional North/South divide as it does to the political dispensation under Alfred the Great.

    Aside from the odd outlier (notably the pale of Cambridge,) the new Toryland bears more than a passing resemblance to the Danelaw.
    So if we do eventually end up in the EEA, it’ll be Cnut’s kingdoms reborn.
    I've been trying not to talk too much about anything related to Brexit. However, for what it's worth there's a decent chance that this crisis will destroy the EU. It's going to severely distress all of the member state economies, but Italy and Spain are now holed below the water line and poor bloody Greece has had its chips. The flaws in the structure of the Eurozone have never been corrected; the creditor states and their electorates have neither sufficient money nor the necessary willpower to bail their neighbours; the chief creditor is, in any event, in a state of political paralysis and led by a lame duck; and neither the almighty refugee crisis nor the arguments about creeping authoritarianism in key central European states have gone away. The edifice is well ablaze, and even if the firefighters had the will to tackle it they've got no engine, no hoses and no hydrants. Just a bucket with a hole in the bottom.

    Never mind the fact that this all-devouring Coronavirus monster leaves little time to think about the new trading relationship. There might be no entity with which to negotiate such a thing anyway.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Excellent thread Alastair, thank you.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    The diminished strength of the Tories in the south made their vote vastly more efficient and gave them their comfortable majority. Of course it also means that they are much more vulnerable to swings against them with far fewer absolutely safe seats.

    Alastair’s excellent analysis demonstrates once again that if anything the extent of Labour’s disaster has been understated.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited March 2020


    Pasted as text because of her habit of deleting tweets (without acknowledgement or apology) once she's realised that they're totally insupportable. The thread beneath was a mixture of people explaining this is BoJo's strategy to wipe out the elderly, Dom's strategy to unleash a wave of eugenics, or just what everyone else's GP was doing too because...

    https://twitter.com/catherine5news/status/1238808367512129537

    She seems to have tremendous tenacity which no doubt helps in many investigative matters, but she also seems like she jumps to conclusions very very quickly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    Why should we though? The best thing is for those people to stay at home. Most will recover. Sending out someone to test them diverts resources from those whose lives are in danger.
    What about the drive-through testing that South Korea has implemented? We started rolling this out and then have suddenly stopped.
    If the primary goal is to save the lives of the vulnerable, is there any point in mass testing? Obviously it should be available for the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions but even drive-through testing uses finite resources.
    Well the WHO don't like it. I think my point would be if we are using a data driven approach, how will we know the spread other than when A&E fills up, which is probably too late.

    My sneaking suspicion is perhaps there will be still community sampling going on, but they don't want to do what America has done and promised everybody who wants a test gets one and then completely overload the system and not be able to test front line staff.
    Between confirmed cases among high-risk individuals and some community sampling we'll probably get a good enough idea of the overall spread. It seems a better approach than testing every young, fit person for the sake of accurate numbers...
    Setting aside you silly straw man argument, the validity of the government policy is quite sensitive to assumptions about the numbers of asymptomatic infected as a proportion of total infected. Without community testing, that remains a guess.
    If it’s significantly lower than the percentage they are assuming, then the NHS is likely to be overwhelmed several times in the pursuit of herd immunity.

    I understand the government‘s belief it needs to opt for this gamble; the alternate strategy is also in its own way something of a gamble, too. What I don’t understand is why they don’t think it needs to be a more informed gamble.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Vaguely on-topic, in this most febrile of times, it's incredibly dangerous to make bold predictions for four weeks down the road let alone four years.

    I'm struck by the LD recovery in central southern England but as Antifrank says, it's from the very low base of 2015 and 2017. That said, I look at Winchester as a probable LD gain next time .

    The main relevance of 2019 for the party was to re-position itself as the principal beneficiaries of any collapse in Conservative vote share in 2024 in a small number of seats.

    Majority under 1,000, Labour under 5%, so sounds possible.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited March 2020
    Interesting Wired piece from a few days ago for those who missed it.
    Chief Number 10 advisor Dominic Cummings asked technology CEO and business leaders to share skills and talent with the government in order to tackle the coronavirus pandemic in a Downing Street meeting on Wednesday evening.

    About 40 technology leaders attended the meeting, according to a person who was inside the room. Attendees included representatives of big technology multinationals including Google, Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft and Palantir, alongside smaller British companies such as food delivery service Deliveroo and Babylon Health, a company that provides remote medical consultations via an app.

    The meeting was chaired by Cummings, and also attended by UK chief scientific advisor Patrick Vallance, and the NHS chief executive Simon Stevens. ...

    ...

    Their commitments would be assessed and followed up on by NHSX, a unit of the UK’s National Health Service focused on fostering digital innovation, which will now be coordinating technology responses across the whole system.

    The source says that NHSX is already working with an AI company called Faculty (previously known as ASI Data Science) to build a series of tools aimed at helping decision-makers and at improving communication with the public. ... Ben Warner, the company's former commercial principal, who also did some work for the Cummings-run Vote Leave campaign, joined Number 10 in December to help the government develop digital solutions. ...

    Carole's take as soon as she sees Dom's and Warner's names:

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1238252717514072066

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1238262405756583937
  • 1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    We are moving to a policy of testing people in hospital - who will most definitely have symptoms.

    Testing people who are home, ill, would mean one of

    1) asking them to travel to a testing location.
    2) sending people to their home to test them.
    3) asking people to draw blood by themselves and post it?
    There's a company in Derbyshire who have a home test kit that can be posted. Finger prick of blood placed into the little device: looks like a pregnancy tester.

    Company told local news that NHS aren't interested.
    There are now 14 companies about to offer tests. I believe the problem with all of them is you have to be 2-3 days into showing symptoms for it to test positive and nowhere near as accurate as the gold standard test.

    They are being rolled out to pharmacy staff next week, to provide them with instant testing abilities and then potentially available to the wider public.
    I think the problem is not so much the test kits, the bottleneck seems to be the lab capacity to process the test samples.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489
    Pulpstar said:

    If we want to know how prevalent the disease is then we need testing of the very mildly symptomatic. The Gov'ts clearly taking a view that it's an iceberg infection but they need the data to back it up.

    We've got enough data on deathrates (hard to fake) now worldwide to extrapolate.

    If it bounds in the 0.4-0.6% box in organised developed countries, with a MoE, then true cases as of Friday night were probably between 3-5k UK wide.

    My guesstimate of 10-15k is probably a tad high. But there will be many more with *cold* type symptoms (that hasn't gone away either) who worry they have the more serious version in reality.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    The alternative attitude, of professional realism to foster herd immunity, seems to be that of the British Government. It does not offer a quick, satisfying, fix, or even the prospect of a quick fix. And that can feel gloomy. But it would be a mistake to confuse gloomy with half-witted. And half-witted not to see that promises of the quick fix are the gloomiest promises of all.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/13/long-term-approach-will-defeat-terrible-disease/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020

    1,140 coronavirus cases have now been confirmed in the UK, according to Public Health England.

    42% increase day on day increase.

    We are definitely now tracking Italy, Germany etc, in terms of raw numbers. I don't see how we are 3 weeks behind Italy.

    And now we have a policy of not even testing most people with symptoms.
    We are moving to a policy of testing people in hospital - who will most definitely have symptoms.

    Testing people who are home, ill, would mean one of

    1) asking them to travel to a testing location.
    2) sending people to their home to test them.
    3) asking people to draw blood by themselves and post it?
    There's a company in Derbyshire who have a home test kit that can be posted. Finger prick of blood placed into the little device: looks like a pregnancy tester.

    Company told local news that NHS aren't interested.
    There are now 14 companies about to offer tests. I believe the problem with all of them is you have to be 2-3 days into showing symptoms for it to test positive and nowhere near as accurate as the gold standard test.

    They are being rolled out to pharmacy staff next week, to provide them with instant testing abilities and then potentially available to the wider public.
    I think the problem is not so much the test kits, the bottleneck seems to be the lab capacity to process the test samples.
    The test kit they demo didn't require a lab. It was processed then and there and result in 10 mins. Was simply prick of blood, inserted into kit and then wait 10 mins.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited March 2020
    ydoethur said:

    They might end up giving out a-levels based on coursework, teacher views, and mock exams I guess. If the exam boards take the decision it makes life easier for Unis, and there are precedents for awarding in that way for sick kids etc.

    Only six A-levels still have coursework. What about the others?

    Mocks are a very poor substitute - it’s not as though all schools even do them any more.
    Heh, and there we have why people like me whose knowledge is from doing A-Levels 20 years ago really shouldn’t comment!

    To be fair you’re also right on mocks - mine were dreadful. I didn’t revise because I knew they didn’t matter. Going out was far more important to me. I interpreted a C with no revision as a message I was ok. I was not universally correct...
This discussion has been closed.