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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,080

    Did someone just put 20,000 volts through Corbyn then? Or did someone put his batteries back in?

    Please! It’s volts across not through.
    Trust a physicist to switch the conversation.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,590
    kle4 said:

    Henrietta said:

    I haven't got TV and don't want to watch this anyway, so I'm following the comments here and at the BBC website. It seems to have been utterly boring so far. Has either of them done anything striking visually yet that pictures or clips of will get widely circulated?

    Visually striking? Expecting Corbyn to do a handstand?
    I am still waiting for the Walrus to fart in Boris's face.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    I've noticed that during the debates Boris needs a "shiny object" to focus his thoughts and his speech.
  • kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Byronic said:

    kinabalu said:

    Corbyn so much more sincere and thoughtful than Johnson. Such a contrast.

    Corbyn just said his manifesto is "fully costed". And you allege he is sincere?!? lol
    He is much better at appearing sincere.
    He's better at appearing pious. And getting easy applause with virtuous piffle.
    It makes him good at appealing to a crowd.
    Winning over the audience won't help win the election though.
    No, I expect not. Corbyn has talents as a campaigner and even as a leader - not that it makes him a good leader given he always starts out so far behind, but he couldn't inspire devotion like he does without some talent - but short of major movement right away, it's hard to see how he can 'win', and that's a win by getting a hung parliament not actually winning.
    A lot of the "devotion" is tongue in cheek from those who respect him (as everyone on the left knows, he worked hard for decades as a campaigner without achieving high government or front-bench office), who dearly want a Labour government, and who know there is no alternative leader available.

    Those who say he has a "personality cult" haven't looked properly either at him or at personality cults.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,190
    No obvious gaffe from Bozo, which is the only scoreboard that matters.

    No substitute for the proper grilling that he is hiding from.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited December 2019

    Byronic said:

    Audience laughing at Boris.

    They weren't. Boris was being mildly humourous. They laughed with him
    No they weren't. Are you drunk?
    One G&T?!? No
  • A week tonight we are likely to be talking about a LAB leadership contest.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,080
    speedy2 said:

    I've noticed that during the debates Boris needs a "shiny object" to focus his thoughts and his speech.

    Too much information...
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    I'm not watching this debate.

    Should I bother?

    Not really though Corbyn is smashing Johnson which is good to see
    I think I understand your model better now.
    My comment is irrelevant to my model which is politically neutral.
    My comment was prompted by the OTT comments about Johnson smashing Corbyn.
    Objectively I think Corbyn has the edge in a thoughtful less bouncy way than Johnson.
    I think Robinson is doing very well.
    There is one of these instant polls after this debate so humble pie will be eaten pretty quickly.
    Looking forward to it. Can't find where to bet on it.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    Awful closing statement from them both.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Very pleased for my bets. No clangers from Boris and I reckon the snap poll will suggest he won that.
  • Did someone just put 20,000 volts through Corbyn then? Or did someone put his batteries back in?

    Please! It’s volts across not through.
    I bow to your expertise, as ever.
    😀
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Not watching the debate deliberately so I could gauge comments on here. Not sure I have seen an unbiased take on proceedings so far from anyone but some of you really do need to try and see the world through none polarized glasses as it really is not quite as black and white as you paint it. It also is not actually such an earth shattering event whoever wins given Corbyn can only win with support of other parties. Johnson will have a 60+ majority labour will be sub 200, the problem is we don’t have a clue how either of those parties are going to react over the next five years.
  • A week tonight we are likely to be talking about a LAB leadership contest.

    Pidders rampers standby.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    A win for Boris. I wait to be disproved, humiliatingly, by the polls
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833
    That wasn’t too bad actually, Nick Robinson a much better moderator than expected.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,930
    edited December 2019
    Boris says voters can choose another hung parliament and 2 more referendums with Corbyn and Sturgeon or get Brexit done with him and more money for the police, schools and hospitals as his closing line.
  • Byronic said:

    A win for Boris. I wait to be disproved, humiliatingly, by the polls

    I am about to give my verdict to YouGov.
  • I am content with that and so should Boris be
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    Win for Nick ( Robinson ). Nil nil otherwise
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,190
    Oh god Huw Edwards is doing election night.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,080

    A week tonight we are likely to be talking about a LAB leadership contest.

    If this gibbering imbecile could win not one but two leadership contests, then I frankly expect the maddest, stupidest, most unlikely, incompetent and mendacious candidate to win.

    Lloyd Russell-Moyle, take a bow.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,087
    Best of the debates by a mile.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    nichomar said:

    Not watching the debate deliberately so I could gauge comments on here. Not sure I have seen an unbiased take on proceedings so far from anyone but some of you really do need to try and see the world through none polarized glasses as it really is not quite as black and white as you paint it. It also is not actually such an earth shattering event whoever wins given Corbyn can only win with support of other parties. Johnson will have a 60+ majority labour will be sub 200, the problem is we don’t have a clue how either of those parties are going to react over the next five years.

    Well the Lib Dem legend Mr Smithson suggests Corbyn didn’t have a gamechanger
  • Byronic said:

    A win for Boris. I wait to be disproved, humiliatingly, by the polls

    I'd call it a score draw. No drama caused to either of them. Both teams will claim they won, though.
  • Well there was no game changer in that last hour and my goodness Nick Robinson is badly missed. Head and shoulders above most of his peers in the political media.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    IanB2 said:

    Oh god Huw Edwards is doing election night.

    They should give it to Fiona Bruce.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,190

    Did someone just put 20,000 volts through Corbyn then? Or did someone put his batteries back in?

    Please! It’s volts across not through.
    I bow to your expertise, as ever.
    He can’t even spell!
  • ydoethur said:

    A week tonight we are likely to be talking about a LAB leadership contest.

    If this gibbering imbecile could win not one but two leadership contests, then I frankly expect the maddest, stupidest, most unlikely, incompetent and mendacious candidate to win.

    Lloyd Russell-Moyle, take a bow.
    An LRM-Burgon dream ticket.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614

    No real gotcha moments so far. Something for both sides to cling on to.

    I would say taxing people more earning over £20,000 is a pretty big one.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,813
    I am 25 mins behind but Corbyn pissing it apart from one bloke keeps clapping everything Boris says.

    For christ sake throw him a fish
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Sandpit said:

    That wasn’t too bad actually, Nick Robinson a much better moderator than expected.

    Yes, the best of the debates so far. Civil and enlightening, with some sharp moments

    These things are always frustratingly bitty, but that wasn't so bad.
  • ydoethur said:

    Did someone just put 20,000 volts through Corbyn then? Or did someone put his batteries back in?

    Please! It’s volts across not through.
    Trust a physicist to switch the conversation.
    Remember, resistance is voltage times current useless.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833
    Betfair’s Con Maj price still firmly stuck at 1.4, but Lab Maj into 40 (from 46). NOM 3.8.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    i'll go 53-47 to boris in the yougov snap poll.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    Interesting that Boris kept bringing up the question of exactly who would renegotiate for Labour with the EU.

    It's clearly been coming up in focus groups that people don't like any of the rest of the Labour front bench either.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    Boris says voters can choose another hung parliament and 2 more referendums with Corbyn and Sturgeon or get Brexit done with him and more money for the police, schools and hospitals as his closing line.

    And you believe him? Ok we will see
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,564
    rcs1000 said:

    Pretty clear to me that Swinson is the only winner here...

    (Ducks)

    It'd be nice to think so, but the LDs never seem to benefit from these two being crap.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,080

    ydoethur said:

    A week tonight we are likely to be talking about a LAB leadership contest.

    If this gibbering imbecile could win not one but two leadership contests, then I frankly expect the maddest, stupidest, most unlikely, incompetent and mendacious candidate to win.

    Lloyd Russell-Moyle, take a bow.
    An LRM-Burgon dream ticket.
    Blimey.

    That would be a dream ticket for the Tories and Liberal Democrats.

    They wouldn’t - couldn’t - mustn’t...

    Could they?
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    This debate was the best debate of this election.
    But I don't think it will change the outcome of who will win this election.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,590

    Did someone just put 20,000 volts through Corbyn then? Or did someone put his batteries back in?

    Please! It’s volts across not through.
    Excellent shot through their bows. I think you got your point through and achieved cutacross. ... :)
  • A week tonight we are likely to be talking about a LAB leadership contest.

    My book on that is utter turd.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,087
    Boris' closing statement was much the better of the two.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Boris winner overall, Corbyn missed a couple of good opportunities to make Boris squirm. He should've quoted Boris letterbox and bumboy remarks back at him, would've had a stronger impact. Don't think it will change much, but I did think it was a far better debate than the various 7 party ones we've seen. Fewer participants is better.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,813
    Boris random phrases and mainly lies

    Highest Corporation Taxes in Europe.

    Apart from of course France ........
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,080

    ydoethur said:

    Did someone just put 20,000 volts through Corbyn then? Or did someone put his batteries back in?

    Please! It’s volts across not through.
    Trust a physicist to switch the conversation.
    Remember, resistance is voltage times current useless.
    I’m positive you’re right.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Reading the comments, it seems there is something for everyone.

    If the debate all ends in another score draw then that's the last potential banana skin dodged by Johnson before polling day. Although with the benefit of hindsight (i.e. seeing how the polls have behaved since Dissolution) it's possible that none of these set pieces has, or would've, made much difference in any event.

    Unless there's a black swan then, for us anoraks, the one big event remaining is presumably the revision of the MRP on Tuesday night?
  • Sandpit said:

    Betfair’s Con Maj price still firmly stuck at 1.4, but Lab Maj into 40 (from 46). NOM 3.8.

    Fucking lol.

    Who is backing Labour majority at 40 now?!

    I'd remortgage my house to lay it if I could in time.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Sandpit said:

    Betfair’s Con Maj price still firmly stuck at 1.4, but Lab Maj into 40 (from 46). NOM 3.8.

    A massive change from an implied 2.1% chance to a 2.5% chance.

    Just huge movements on the exchanges.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,080
    edited December 2019

    Sandpit said:

    Betfair’s Con Maj price still firmly stuck at 1.4, but Lab Maj into 40 (from 46). NOM 3.8.

    Fucking lol.

    Who is backing Labour majority at 40 now?!

    I'd remortgage my house to lay it if I could in time.
    Since you have a spare, that’s not such a risk for you as it would be for the rest of us.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Bitchy comment from Barry Gardiner to Raab in the reaction room "why are you sweating and I'm not" when Raab was saying why his guy had won
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    So, any polls tonight?
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Did someone just put 20,000 volts through Corbyn then? Or did someone put his batteries back in?

    Please! It’s volts across not through.
    Trust a physicist to switch the conversation.
    Remember, resistance is voltage times current useless.
    I’m positive you’re right.
    Shocking!
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    A week tonight we are likely to be talking about a LAB leadership contest.

    If this gibbering imbecile could win not one but two leadership contests, then I frankly expect the maddest, stupidest, most unlikely, incompetent and mendacious candidate to win.

    Lloyd Russell-Moyle, take a bow.
    An LRM-Burgon dream ticket.
    Blimey.

    That would be a dream ticket for the Tories and Liberal Democrats.

    They wouldn’t - couldn’t - mustn’t...

    Could they?
    Neither is a woman, so sadly this must remain a pipe dream.
  • Bitchy comment from Barry Gardiner to Raab in the reaction room "why are you sweating and I'm not" when Raab was saying why his guy had won

    Was Barry Gardiner in the Falklands War?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,080

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Did someone just put 20,000 volts through Corbyn then? Or did someone put his batteries back in?

    Please! It’s volts across not through.
    Trust a physicist to switch the conversation.
    Remember, resistance is voltage times current useless.
    I’m positive you’re right.
    Shocking!
    I can’t downvote that but I’m still feeling negative.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    Betfair markets barely shifted during the debate.

    A draw for Boris was a win there.

    Another hurdle cleared.
  • HenriettaHenrietta Posts: 136
    edited December 2019
    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Henrietta said:

    I haven't got TV and don't want to watch this anyway, so I'm following the comments here and at the BBC website. It seems to have been utterly boring so far. Has either of them done anything striking visually yet that pictures or clips of will get widely circulated?

    Visually striking? Expecting Corbyn to do a handstand?
    Jez may have mooned the crowd? 🤮
    Visual moves work, when they're done well. Netanyahu is a master of them. Everyone remembers his depiction of a bomb. Corbyn should have whipped out an elephant chart when Neil mentioned billionaires.

    Corbyn's team improved their understanding in between the Andrew Neil interview where he flopped about with sheaves of A4 and the press conference a few days later when he held them up properly against a red background and had uniformed nurses and medics hand out copies.
  • How appropriate Boris wins instant poll 52/48
  • ydoethur said:

    Did someone just put 20,000 volts through Corbyn then? Or did someone put his batteries back in?

    Please! It’s volts across not through.
    Trust a physicist to switch the conversation.
    Remember, resistance is voltage times current useless.
    Resistance is Futile!
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Are YouGov using their panel tonight?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833
    edited December 2019

    Sandpit said:

    Betfair’s Con Maj price still firmly stuck at 1.4, but Lab Maj into 40 (from 46). NOM 3.8.

    Fucking lol.

    Who is backing Labour majority at 40 now?!

    I'd remortgage my house to lay it if I could in time.
    I’m up to £750 of the 1.4 (well, various prices between 1.38 and 1.41 over the past couple of days). Debating how much more to add, now the last set piece is over.

    I think tomorrow’s headlines are going to be the £20,000 figure from that debate, so Johnson didn’t mess up and there’s four days to go now.
  • ydoethur said:

    Did someone just put 20,000 volts through Corbyn then? Or did someone put his batteries back in?

    Please! It’s volts across not through.
    Trust a physicist to switch the conversation.
    It was an enlightening intervention.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,190

    A week tonight we are likely to be talking about a LAB leadership contest.

    My book on that is utter turd.
    He can only lead one party at a time.
  • Anybody betting on a LAB majority is barmy. Since losing Scotland at GE2015 the chances, even with a bright voter-friendly new leader, of LAB forming a majority government are miniscule.
  • Best of the debates by a mile.

    Yeah, it was alright :lol:
  • i'll go 53-47 to boris in the yougov snap poll.

    Probably a score draw, but most importantly the two banana skins of the Trump visit & the final leaders debate have now happened without incident.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,590

    Sandpit said:

    Betfair’s Con Maj price still firmly stuck at 1.4, but Lab Maj into 40 (from 46). NOM 3.8.

    Fucking lol.

    Who is backing Labour majority at 40 now?!

    I'd remortgage my house to lay it if I could in time.
    It's usually thought to be a bad idea to bet with borrowed money... :(
  • 52/48
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    i'll go 53-47 to boris in the yougov snap poll.

    52-48. close. and where have i seen that before.
  • Sandpit said:

    That wasn’t too bad actually, Nick Robinson a much better moderator than expected.

    Yes, I thought Robinson did well. He pressed both of them to focus on specific points they would have preferred to avoid without stopping either of them getting across the points they wanted to.

    Probably a score draw overall, Johnson doing well initially on Brexit and surprisingly the NHS (i.e. the 4 day week point) but with Corbyn coming on stronger later in the debate.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    A week tonight we are likely to be talking about a LAB leadership contest.

    If this gibbering imbecile could win not one but two leadership contests, then I frankly expect the maddest, stupidest, most unlikely, incompetent and mendacious candidate to win.

    Lloyd Russell-Moyle, take a bow.
    An LRM-Burgon dream ticket.
    Blimey.

    That would be a dream ticket for the Tories and Liberal Democrats.

    They wouldn’t - couldn’t - mustn’t...

    Could they?
    Neither is a woman, so sadly this must remain a pipe dream.
    Is that rule set in stone or just a universal assumption?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Bitchy comment from Barry Gardiner to Raab in the reaction room "why are you sweating and I'm not" when Raab was saying why his guy had won

    Was Barry Gardiner in the Falklands War?
    No but he may have been in the night club
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    52/48

    Hahahahaha

    A win is a win is a win. I was right. Boris won.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,564

    52/48

    Well don't leave me in suspense - to who?!
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981

    A week tonight we are likely to be talking about a LAB leadership contest.

    This is the list of MP's who would probably win the leadership election, delete the centrists from it first:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Labour_Party_Members_of_Parliament_in_London

    Basically someone like George Galloway, but still in Labour.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    kle4 said:

    52/48

    Well don't leave me in suspense - to who?!
    Boris
  • IanB2 said:

    Oh god Huw Edwards is doing election night.

    SKY have Bercow!
  • On who performed best in the #BBCDebate:

    Boris Johnson: 52%
    Jeremy Corbyn: 48%

    via @YouGov
    Representative survey of viewers
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    Amazing split there.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,190
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Did someone just put 20,000 volts through Corbyn then? Or did someone put his batteries back in?

    Please! It’s volts across not through.
    Trust a physicist to switch the conversation.
    Remember, resistance is voltage times current useless.
    I’m positive you’re right.
    Shocking!
    I can’t downvote that but I’m still feeling negative.
    Please short circuit this conversation before someone blows a fuse.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Boris won that debate comfortably IMO. His opening and closing debates were especially effective. All Corbyn did was reinforce his economic ignorance and his abdication of leadership over Brexit.

    It's killing Labour on the doorstep in the seats that matter - and there's nothing they can do about it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,564
    Serious question, why are people on twitter so pathetic? It's just a snap poll for christ's sake, why react so personally?
    https://twitter.com/DilksChris/status/1203065710542540800
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,190
    Byronic said:

    52/48

    Hahahahaha

    A win is a win is a win. I was right. Boris won.
    Margin of error
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,087
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Did someone just put 20,000 volts through Corbyn then? Or did someone put his batteries back in?

    Please! It’s volts across not through.
    Trust a physicist to switch the conversation.
    Remember, resistance is voltage times current useless.
    I’m positive you’re right.
    My lack of science knowledge means I'm 'ampered on this one....
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    Corbyn the nice doddery old reverend you might ask round for tea (just stay off the subject of the Jews...), heart's in the right place. Maybe.

    Not a leader.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Are YouGov using their panel tonight?

    Is?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    52/48

    Hahahahaha

    A win is a win is a win. I was right. Boris won.
    Margin of error
    I was right. Boris won. Sorry.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,080

    Anybody betting on a LAB majority is barmy. Since losing Scotland at GE2015 the chances, even with a bright voter-friendly new leader, of LAB forming a majority government are miniscule.

    Since they would have formed a government perfectly comfortably without Scotland in 2005 (which was after all the last election they won) I am not sure that that is true.

    I agree that it makes their task considerably harder, but that’s not the same thing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833
    speedy2 said:

    A week tonight we are likely to be talking about a LAB leadership contest.

    This is the list of MP's who would probably win the leadership election, delete the centrists from it first:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Labour_Party_Members_of_Parliament_in_London

    Basically someone like George Galloway, but still in Labour.
    Salma Yaqoob?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,282
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,036

    A week tonight we are likely to be talking about a LAB leadership contest.

    Hope Pidcock holds her seat. If not it will be like Take That without Robbie.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    edited December 2019
    kle4 said:

    Serious question, why are people on twitter so pathetic? It's just a snap poll for christ's sake, why react so personally?
    https://twitter.com/DilksChris/status/1203065710542540800
    But is that a pro Boris lol or a pro Corbyn lol. Either way a shame Britain Elects is becoming more like Election Maps.

    Oh sorry slow me, it’s a referendum lol!
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited December 2019
    A poor start from Corbyn . One can see how he would much rather have fought an election after Brexit.

    Got better towards the end . I thought his answers on security in light of the terrorist attack were quite good and measured.

    I thought overall Johnson did a bit better than I expected. Apparently YouGov are doing a snap debate poll. I expect Johnson to win that but am interested in seeing what the undecideds thought .


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,564
    speedy2 said:

    A week tonight we are likely to be talking about a LAB leadership contest.

    This is the list of MP's who would probably win the leadership election, delete the centrists from it first:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Labour_Party_Members_of_Parliament_in_London

    Basically someone like George Galloway, but still in Labour.
    Diane Abbott?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    when you have been in government 9 years there are not many things you can blame others for.
This discussion has been closed.