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  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    kle4 said:

    saddened said:

    melcf said:

    The electoral calculus puts Wrexham, Vale of Clywd and many seats in the North as Labour in the lead by a mile. Suprising poll, recently done at Wrexham, Tories at 44 and Labour at 29. Not what I'm hearing from the ground.
    Dream on, at this time in 2017, Bet fred had an 86% Tory majority!

    You planning on being here next Friday? Personally, I doubt it.
    Hubris dear boy keep it in check otherwise we will have to release the video of Chez Saddened at 10pm on GE day 2017!!
    The thread immediately following the big bong was one of the most extraordinary in PB history. It ain't gonna happen again, but I'd advise against unbottling the champagne just yet.
    I'm sure I handled the surprise with grace and proportion. But I think I'll not risk checking.
    I seem to recall you having a bit of a breakdown kle4.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Jason said:

    kle4 said:

    saddened said:

    melcf said:

    The electoral calculus puts Wrexham, Vale of Clywd and many seats in the North as Labour in the lead by a mile. Suprising poll, recently done at Wrexham, Tories at 44 and Labour at 29. Not what I'm hearing from the ground.
    Dream on, at this time in 2017, Bet fred had an 86% Tory majority!

    You planning on being here next Friday? Personally, I doubt it.
    Hubris dear boy keep it in check otherwise we will have to release the video of Chez Saddened at 10pm on GE day 2017!!
    The thread immediately following the big bong was one of the most extraordinary in PB history. It ain't gonna happen again, but I'd advise against unbottling the champagne just yet.
    I'm sure I handled the surprise with grace and proportion. But I think I'll not risk checking.
    I seem to recall you having a bit of a breakdown kle4.
    Yeah, the lack of an emoji did not mean I was not being ironic. As I should think was obvious, I don't handle most things with grace or proportion.
  • rcs1000 said:

    melcf said:

    stodge said:

    melcf said:

    I keep hearing this ' Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser'.
    Well, if one was a real terrorist, how would they try and harm the United Kingdom?
    Let me think
    - Causing misery and economic hardships for the many, not the few?
    - Make tens of thousands homeless, specially single mums and children
    - cause rising death rate amongst the elderly, due to cuts in social and health care
    - Cause internal divisions and a near civil war among the general population, by divisive games, such as Brexit
    - Cause a slump in the economy and with the falling pound, rising prises
    - lastly, try and bring our centuries old United Kingdom union under threat
    --- Sorry, Mr Terrorist, no vacancy for the above. Thus job has been filed, for the last 9.5 years, with excellent references. Come back in 2024

    There is a valid question which is why nearly fifteen years after the 7/7/attacks, we are still seeing home-grown radicalised Islamists spreading terror in London?

    Successive Governments have implemented layer upon layer of a security state with surveillance aplenty and yet we have completely failed to eradicate the root cause of the problem in any meaningful sense for all the death in Syria, Iraq and elsewhere.

    I imagine Johnson and Patel will witter on about longer sentences, tougher this and harsher that but ultimately we seem no nearer ending the scourge of such terror.
    The solution is more austerity and oven ready Brexit??
    Austerity is the inevitable consequence of an ageing population. What we need to do is to make sure the burden is shared equitably, and to encourage people to retire ever later.
    My view is we take a radical step. Shift the whole education/work life cycle by at least 2 years. So kids do not start formal school until they are 7. They take their GCSEs at 18, A levels at 20 and then go to university, graduating at 23. This means they enter the job market later. One advantage of this is that they are not trying to take important exams when they are in the middle of massive physiological and psychological changes of their middle teens. It also eases the job market so that there is more space for older people to work later at the other end.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720
    edited December 2019
    Floater said:

    I have received an e mail today asking Labour Members in Chesterfield to go to Bolsover and NE Derbyshire for the remainder of the Campaign.

    As i am not able to walk more than about 10 paces wont be doing either but i think the former is close the latter unwinnable

    Any news on when you can have treatment?
    I am too difficult to operate on apparently so nothing can be done other than medication

    Both Stent and Bypass option ruled out

    Getting by with GTN and the blue badge though
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:
    Pretty graph.

    Last time the polls were this stable during a campaign was 2010, and they got it pretty much spot on (result +7.2%, average of final polls 6.9)
    Difference between then and now is that the Lib Dem seat count has broadly switched to the SNP count which makes it harder for Labour but easier for the Tories to get a majority
    Absolutely. The Scottish bloc isn't essential to Labour when it can win decisively in England, of course, but it becomes crucial in a tight race.

    The last time Labour won an English majority, before Blairism and the embrace of the Thatcherite settlement (i.e. the last convincing Old Labour victory) was in 1966.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited December 2019
    Both main parties are flatlining because there's nothing left to squeeze. The BXP have basically been reduced to fluff under the sofa, and the Lib Dems are down to a core vote.

    This is where the anti-Semitism stuff has played a quiet part, i reckon.

    Perhaps a few more percent could have been squeezed from the Libs, but all the Jew-hating furore has come at just the wrong moment. Why should an LD lend a vote to Labour, when Labour are so terribly tainted and will likely lose anyway?

    Better to have a clean conscience, accept defeat, and stay Liberal.

    I am sure lots of Lib Dems have been through that logical process. In the end its the crazy phobic anti-Jew shite that has done for Labour. Deservedly.
  • I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    The odious Dennis Skinner losing his seat would be pant wettingly delicious.
  • melcf said:

    BluerBlue said:

    melcf said:

    Jason said:

    Stocky said:

    andy3664 said:

    Maybe nobody will notice, but today has been a terrible day for the Tories.

    A grovelling apology by Channel 4 for doctoring a Boris speech and Sturgeon, Starmer, Abbott, Umunna and others having to make desperate attempts to delete their tweets is a bad day for the conservatives
    If it`s a bad day for the Tories it`s escaped my notice.
    It is interesting that nobody is talking about policy anymore. Last few days, it has all been about personality. Labour's train bribe seems to have sunk without trace. The dodgy doctor was hyping it as the biggest moment of the campaign.

    I think Labour are really struggling to accept the hurt and damage they've done to some of their most loyal voters over Brexit. I also think they're struggling to accept that millions of people do not believe their notion that a government can borrow and tax the thick end of a trillion quid with out there being wider and profoundly damaging consequences to the economy.

    The public have seen through Labour's brass necked bribes for the complete and utter bollocks they are.
    I think Brexit has very little to do with it. It is the Corbyn factor, pure and simple.

    If the Tories get a majority when they are as shit as they are it is Corbyn Wot Won It (for the Tories)
    Corbyn was there in 2017, when they got 40% of votes. What has changed since then? Three Tory PMs, more austerity and a buffon with a 350 million bus? We heard the same shyte in 2017 but the Northern wall didn't crack
    Last time Corbyn got most of the Remainers (undeservedly) and kept a good chunk of the Leavers (deservedly). This time he'll get most of the Remainers (deservedly), and lose most of the Leavers (deservedly). What's left for him is numerically much smaller than in 2017.

    That's the difference.
    So Brexit is the solution to all, simples? So a single mum in Grimsby, recent homeless with her two kids and shafted by universal credit, all thanks to Tories AND who voted leave, is automatically gonna vote Tories this time. Elementary dear Watson ??
    Or many in Lincoln will vote Tory despite having a mega prik like Karl McCartney as their candidate ? Who has been involved in expenses fiddling and is generally perceived as an arrogant caunt.. if only life was so simple
    And Labour is led by a Marxist terrorist bootlicker,you may have missed it but what Corbyn is proposing has been rejected across the globe with the exception of North Korea & Venezuela
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited December 2019

    Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:
    Pretty graph.

    Last time the polls were this stable during a campaign was 2010, and they got it pretty much spot on (result +7.2%, average of final polls 6.9)
    Difference between then and now is that the Lib Dem seat count has broadly switched to the SNP count which makes it harder for Labour but easier for the Tories to get a majority
    Absolutely. The Scottish bloc isn't essential to Labour when it can win decisively in England, of course, but it becomes crucial in a tight race.

    The last time Labour won an English majority, before Blairism and the embrace of the Thatcherite settlement (i.e. the last convincing Old Labour victory) was in 1966.
    And Labour will NEVER win big in England while they are this Far Left.

    Yet again, the party will have to wise up, and tack to the centre. The pendulum refuses to swing their way when they are quasi-communist.
  • Floater said:

    I have received an e mail today asking Labour Members in Chesterfield to go to Bolsover and NE Derbyshire for the remainder of the Campaign.

    As i am not able to walk more than about 10 paces wont be doing either but i think the former is close the latter unwinnable

    Any news on when you can have treatment?
    I am too difficult to operate on apparently so nothing can be done other than medication

    Both Stent and Bypass option ruled out

    Getting by with GTN and the blue badge though
    Very sorry to hear that.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720
    geoffw said:

    RobD said:

    geoffw said:

    RobD said:

    geoffw said:

    RobD said:

    BluerBlue said:

    RobD said:
    My favourite part of the day!
    I even added the current day on there!
    Is the Yougov megapoll represented by three of the circles there? If so can you say which ones?

    Which mega poll is this? :o
    the 100,000

    Oh, I don’t think that is on here.
    ok. My only thought was to do with weighting. I don't know whether the MRP stuff included voting intention numbers.

    In 2017 MRP had VI of 42/38

    So even though it underestimated Lab share it slightly overestimated the Lab seats
  • I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    I still dream of the 10/1 available on a Tory majority at 1am in 2015, or with Brexit or Trump at similar stages of the night. There’s no chance of any value like that again is there? We’ve been spoilt.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:

    Pretty graph.

    Last time the polls were this stable during a campaign was 2010, and they got it pretty much spot on (result +7.2%, average of final polls 6.9)
    Difference between then and now is that the Lib Dem seat count has broadly switched to the SNP count which makes it harder for Labour but easier for the Tories to get a majority
    Probably more for 2024 than now, but it does look quite challenging for Labour to get an overall majority of one without a big Scottish recovery. One for Friday morning if we’re not all surprised by a hung Parliament I guess.
    Except they may be forced to work out how to win in England again. IMHO Brexit makes Scottish secession more likely.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,824
    edited December 2019
    alb1on said:

    alb1on said:

    For those confident Conservatives and despairing Socialists, news that demonstrates that the most extreme outsider can defeat the favourite. In the London Chess Classic Maxime Vachier-Lagrave beat world champion Magnus Carlsen. In the GE this would be the equivalent of the Greens winning a majority!

    MVL is world number 4 and the 7th highest rated chess player of all time. He is in no way an extreme outsider
    Hes been rated world number 2 at his highest
    He is a good player but not even near Carlsen. Carlsen is currently on a 105 unbeaten run in classic chess. And Carlsen is even more dominant at blitz and armageddon chess than in the long version. The nature of the LCC means V-L must have won one of the games of the short variants, which is a huge upset. Carlsen smashed Caruana at these short games in the World Championship tie. You are making the mistake of looking at rankings to evaluate winning chances. This often fails in chess (Kasparov, Fischer - and Capablanca going back a century - are examples) because one player may be utterly dominant. And that is Carlsen. He even drew Gawain Jones (a world top 100 player) last year after blundering a full piece in the opening. This is the equivalent of playing tennis with your legs tied together.
    To give perspective. The 100+ rating point gap between Carlsen and V-L is the equivalent of the gap between a decent grandmaster and an IM (say 500 ranking places).
    Utter nonsense. Yes Carlsen is a great champion and dominant rapid player but then again in St Louis rapid and Blitz this year he finished mid table and was frankly abject for his own standards. Carlsen also lost the rapid play off against Ding (who MVL is playing in the final) in the Sinquefield cup a couple of months ago. 100 points FIDE is about 14 points difference on the English rating system which would put the odds on any game about 70/30 in favour of the higher player. My rating is about 1200 below Carlsen, so I'm not likely to beat him but MVL has every chance. Carlsen doesn't just win every tournament he turns up at, 3 this year I've mentioned he fell. His standard run is impressive (although mostly drawn of course) the last person to beat him in standard play was Mamedyarov.

    MVLs win was the equivalent of Labour gain Putney this time round
  • Floater said:

    I have received an e mail today asking Labour Members in Chesterfield to go to Bolsover and NE Derbyshire for the remainder of the Campaign.

    As i am not able to walk more than about 10 paces wont be doing either but i think the former is close the latter unwinnable

    Any news on when you can have treatment?
    I am too difficult to operate on apparently so nothing can be done other than medication

    Both Stent and Bypass option ruled out

    Getting by with GTN and the blue badge though
    :(
  • Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:

    Pretty graph.

    Last time the polls were this stable during a campaign was 2010, and they got it pretty much spot on (result +7.2%, average of final polls 6.9)
    Difference between then and now is that the Lib Dem seat count has broadly switched to the SNP count which makes it harder for Labour but easier for the Tories to get a majority
    Probably more for 2024 than now, but it does look quite challenging for Labour to get an overall majority of one without a big Scottish recovery. One for Friday morning if we’re not all surprised by a hung Parliament I guess.
    Except they may be forced to work out how to win in England again. IMHO Brexit makes Scottish secession more likely.
    Fair point. My instinct is we’ll get an orderly Brexit and it won’t come to that, but it might. And if does, then that has to be a very scary prospect for Labour.
  • Jason said:

    The odious Dennis Skinner losing his seat would be pant wettingly delicious.

    :+1:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080

    I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    I still dream of the 10/1 available on a Tory majority at 1am in 2015, or with Brexit or Trump at similar stages of the night. There’s no chance of any value like that again is there? We’ve been spoilt.
    If long odds outcomes happen once, they can happen again. The whole point of the odds is that few people expected them.
  • IanB2 said:

    I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    I still dream of the 10/1 available on a Tory majority at 1am in 2015, or with Brexit or Trump at similar stages of the night. There’s no chance of any value like that again is there? We’ve been spoilt.
    If long odds outcomes happen once, they can happen again. The whole point of the odds is that few people expected them.
    Similar odds were available on NOM on the day before the last election.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,673

    Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:

    Pretty graph.

    Last time the polls were this stable during a campaign was 2010, and they got it pretty much spot on (result +7.2%, average of final polls 6.9)
    Difference between then and now is that the Lib Dem seat count has broadly switched to the SNP count which makes it harder for Labour but easier for the Tories to get a majority
    Probably more for 2024 than now, but it does look quite challenging for Labour to get an overall majority of one without a big Scottish recovery. One for Friday morning if we’re not all surprised by a hung Parliament I guess.
    Except they may be forced to work out how to win in England again. IMHO Brexit makes Scottish secession more likely.
    Bit of an understatement there
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720

    I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    I still dream of the 10/1 available on a Tory majority at 1am in 2015, or with Brexit or Trump at similar stages of the night. There’s no chance of any value like that again is there? We’ve been spoilt.
    I was just looking through Betfair Constituency Betting too.

    Very little value left there either.

    I just put a few quid (literally) on Lab in Leigh that was 1.61 and I dont believe the first YG MRP result there
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    My, totally irrelevant advice to center left labour supports is do your party a favor and vote anything but labour. Until the current lunacy is put to bed you are destined to be the permanent opposition party that is not in a position to help those they purport to do. Corbyn and his ilk need to be destroyed if your party has any hope in ever getting into power in the future. You can’t blame others as the Tory helpers Corbyn is helper in chief.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    That was a good spot, had been around 50 a couple of days ago. More than 2% return in a week, if anyone’s got a big bank?

    I’m going mostly all-in on the Con Maj at 1.4, so long as BJ can avoid saying something really stupid in the next couple of hours.
  • I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    I still dream of the 10/1 available on a Tory majority at 1am in 2015, or with Brexit or Trump at similar stages of the night. There’s no chance of any value like that again is there? We’ve been spoilt.
    I was just looking through Betfair Constituency Betting too.

    Very little value left there either.

    I just put a few quid (literally) on Lab in Leigh that was 1.61 and I dont believe the first YG MRP result there
    To my way of thinking there’s probably an unlikely Labour or LibDem gain somewhere in the south where by chance the tactical voting falls just right. But there’s no way to second guess it.

    Also sorry to here you’re are not well. Best wishes.
  • malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:

    Pretty graph.

    Last time the polls were this stable during a campaign was 2010, and they got it pretty much spot on (result +7.2%, average of final polls 6.9)
    Difference between then and now is that the Lib Dem seat count has broadly switched to the SNP count which makes it harder for Labour but easier for the Tories to get a majority
    Probably more for 2024 than now, but it does look quite challenging for Labour to get an overall majority of one without a big Scottish recovery. One for Friday morning if we’re not all surprised by a hung Parliament I guess.
    Except they may be forced to work out how to win in England again. IMHO Brexit makes Scottish secession more likely.
    Bit of an understatement there
    How many Scottish people might look at a really messy Brexit and think that Independence for Scotland might be just as difficult? I know that for many it wouldn’t matter, but surely for some it would?
  • Sandpit said:

    I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    That was a good spot, had been around 50 a couple of days ago. More than 2% return in a week, if anyone’s got a big bank?

    I’m going mostly all-in on the Con Maj at 1.4, so long as BJ can avoid saying something really stupid in the next couple of hours.
    I was musing over whether he’d find a legitimate opportunity to say “people of colour” to troll channel four. But I don’t see a market.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:

    Pretty graph.

    Last time the polls were this stable during a campaign was 2010, and they got it pretty much spot on (result +7.2%, average of final polls 6.9)
    Difference between then and now is that the Lib Dem seat count has broadly switched to the SNP count which makes it harder for Labour but easier for the Tories to get a majority
    Probably more for 2024 than now, but it does look quite challenging for Labour to get an overall majority of one without a big Scottish recovery. One for Friday morning if we’re not all surprised by a hung Parliament I guess.
    Except they may be forced to work out how to win in England again. IMHO Brexit makes Scottish secession more likely.
    Fair point. My instinct is we’ll get an orderly Brexit and it won’t come to that, but it might. And if does, then that has to be a very scary prospect for Labour.
    Even scarier for the rest of us. Do you think that perpetual Tory rule is a good thing?
  • saddened said:

    melcf said:

    The electoral calculus puts Wrexham, Vale of Clywd and many seats in the North as Labour in the lead by a mile. Suprising poll, recently done at Wrexham, Tories at 44 and Labour at 29. Not what I'm hearing from the ground.
    Dream on, at this time in 2017, Bet fred had an 86% Tory majority!

    You planning on being here next Friday? Personally, I doubt it.
    Hubris dear boy keep it in check otherwise we will have to release the video of Chez Saddened at 10pm on GE day 2017!!
    The thread immediately following the big bong was one of the most extraordinary in PB history. It ain't gonna happen again, but I'd advise against unbottling the champagne just yet.
    I was reading the thread, and had a living room full of friends watching BBC1, saying 'that can't be right, surely?'. Fun times.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:

    Pretty graph.

    Last time the polls were this stable during a campaign was 2010, and they got it pretty much spot on (result +7.2%, average of final polls 6.9)
    Difference between then and now is that the Lib Dem seat count has broadly switched to the SNP count which makes it harder for Labour but easier for the Tories to get a majority
    Probably more for 2024 than now, but it does look quite challenging for Labour to get an overall majority of one without a big Scottish recovery. One for Friday morning if we’re not all surprised by a hung Parliament I guess.
    Except they may be forced to work out how to win in England again. IMHO Brexit makes Scottish secession more likely.
    Fair point. My instinct is we’ll get an orderly Brexit and it won’t come to that, but it might. And if does, then that has to be a very scary prospect for Labour.
    Even scarier for the rest of us. Do you think that perpetual Tory rule is a good thing?
    No, why? I was just musing over how hard it might be for Labour. Sad for the country, if anything.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:

    Pretty graph.

    Last time the polls were this stable during a campaign was 2010, and they got it pretty much spot on (result +7.2%, average of final polls 6.9)
    Difference between then and now is that the Lib Dem seat count has broadly switched to the SNP count which makes it harder for Labour but easier for the Tories to get a majority
    Probably more for 2024 than now, but it does look quite challenging for Labour to get an overall majority of one without a big Scottish recovery. One for Friday morning if we’re not all surprised by a hung Parliament I guess.
    Except they may be forced to work out how to win in England again. IMHO Brexit makes Scottish secession more likely.
    Fair point. My instinct is we’ll get an orderly Brexit and it won’t come to that, but it might. And if does, then that has to be a very scary prospect for Labour.
    Even scarier for the rest of us. Do you think that perpetual Tory rule is a good thing?
    People thought that Labour would never win again in 1992. The wheel turns...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847
    Loving that chess exchange.

    A play about Fischer Spassky is on at Hampstead theatre. I hope to go see it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    That was a good spot, had been around 50 a couple of days ago. More than 2% return in a week, if anyone’s got a big bank?

    I’m going mostly all-in on the Con Maj at 1.4, so long as BJ can avoid saying something really stupid in the next couple of hours.
    I was musing over whether he’d find a legitimate opportunity to say “people of colour” to troll channel four. But I don’t see a market.
    He’ll troll them with ‘people of talent’, repeating it at least twice and really slowly. Everyone in the audience who’s been watching the news today will laugh. Johnson’s good at using techniques like that to disarm people.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    stodge said:

    glw said:


    Your hypothesis is wrong. In reality we are very successful at defeating terrorism in the UK, and God knows we have the experience, as the vast majority of terrorist plots never make it beyond the planning stage. Hundreds of arrests are made every year, and many prosecutions take place.

    Occassionally an attack occurs, but even those attacks are nowadays very low-tech compared to the terrorism of the past. Shootings are almost non-existant, and bombings rare and the terrorists resort to using low-quality home made explosives.

    Is the counter-terrorism system perfect? Obviously not, but it is effective, and on the whole most would-be terrorists are caught before they can act. I think it would be almost impossible to reduce the level of terrorism any further.

    I accept a lot of plots and plans are quickly stopped and I'm sure a lot of heroic work is done unrecognised behind the scenes.

    My point wasn't about that - we have this counter-terrorism apparatus in place which no doubt costs millions of pounds which could be spent elsewhere.

    Are we going to have to live like this for the rest of time? At what point and in what way can we look forward to a time when we no longer need the depth and volume of counter-terrorist infrastructure? Yes, we may be more safe and secure now than ever and I accept the price of that freedom is eternal vigilance but ultimately a solution to radical Islamism will have to be found - whether that's a political, military or economic solution I'm not sure and it will involve a global as much as a regional effort but I see no sense in which anyone is willing to try to find that resolution.
    I would suggest never. There will always be those who are so politically discontented or feel so isolated from the mainstream that they resort to violence. And that violence by its very nature must be terrorism because they have nothing else they can do. That is in no way condoning it, just pointing out it is a fact of life. Before Islamism it was Irish Nationalism or Far Left terrorism in Europe. After Islamism it will be something else.
    It's remarkable how little awareness there is of how many people died in terrorist attacks across Europe in the 1970s. If you go back further in time, you find terrorism has been with us a hundred years or so.

    In other words, there's no greater risk in dying in a terrorist incident now than in 2000 or 2005, and a lot less than in 1975. Yet the Internet has allowed us all to convince ourselves we're facing some unprecedented threat.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:

    Pretty graph.

    Last time the polls were this stable during a campaign was 2010, and they got it pretty much spot on (result +7.2%, average of final polls 6.9)
    Difference between then and now is that the Lib Dem seat count has broadly switched to the SNP count which makes it harder for Labour but easier for the Tories to get a majority
    Probably more for 2024 than now, but it does look quite challenging for Labour to get an overall majority of one without a big Scottish recovery. One for Friday morning if we’re not all surprised by a hung Parliament I guess.
    Except they may be forced to work out how to win in England again. IMHO Brexit makes Scottish secession more likely.
    Fair point. My instinct is we’ll get an orderly Brexit and it won’t come to that, but it might. And if does, then that has to be a very scary prospect for Labour.
    My thesis is that Scotland has not only a 45% vote in favour of independence behind it, but also a healthy majority for Remain. If Brexit occurs - orderly or not - then the "Tory Governments we didn't vote for" and the "being dragged out of Europe against our will" arguments become very pertinent. It doesn't help to answer the other big questions (about the currency, the budget deficit and the possibility of a hard border with England further down the line,) but it does make independence an easier sell.

    If, on the other hand, we are surprised by another Hung Parliament then the anti-Tory bloc at Westminster gets the opportunity to hold its second EU referendum (if the EU27 permit it, which one has to assume that they would,) and Remain has an excellent chance of winning. In that case SNP votes at Westminster become crucial, the Conservative Government falls and Brexit is thwarted. With the UK dragged back into the EU, proponents of Scottish independence are then, if anything, further back than they were in 2014: Unionists will point to all the difficulties encountered during Brexit and ask why the Scottish Government believed that it was essential for the UK to stay in the EU, yet now proposes a course of action which would result in Scotland having to leave the EU and reapply for membership.

    Should Brexit go ahead then the next big argument won't be about the nature of the future relationship with the EU - that's a red herring, if the sceptics are correct and the Government can't get it sorted by the end of 2020 then Boris Johnson will almost certainly go back on his word and ask to extend the transition. It'll be over the survival of the Union.
  • I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    I still dream of the 10/1 available on a Tory majority at 1am in 2015, or with Brexit or Trump at similar stages of the night. There’s no chance of any value like that again is there? We’ve been spoilt.
    Yes there is.

    The biggest betting opportunities are always in the opening odds, and the closing moments.

    Watch the markets like a hawk between 10pm and 2am next Thursday night.

    That's where the big opportunities will be.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720
    nichomar said:

    My, totally irrelevant advice to center left labour supports is do your party a favor and vote anything but labour. Until the current lunacy is put to bed you are destined to be the permanent opposition party that is not in a position to help those they purport to do. Corbyn and his ilk need to be destroyed if your party has any hope in ever getting into power in the future. You can’t blame others as the Tory helpers Corbyn is helper in chief.

    Your advice is not required you elected a leader that makes Corbyn look like a heavyweight

    No sane Lab supporter will vote Tory Swinson except in a CON/LD marginal like Richmond
  • Floater said:

    I have received an e mail today asking Labour Members in Chesterfield to go to Bolsover and NE Derbyshire for the remainder of the Campaign.

    As i am not able to walk more than about 10 paces wont be doing either but i think the former is close the latter unwinnable

    Any news on when you can have treatment?
    I am too difficult to operate on apparently so nothing can be done other than medication

    Both Stent and Bypass option ruled out

    Getting by with GTN and the blue badge though
    Sorry to hear that.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,824
    kinabalu said:

    Loving that chess exchange.

    A play about Fischer Spassky is on at Hampstead theatre. I hope to go see it.

    Fischer was a class above but mad as a brush and very volatile. His refusal to defend his title led to him becoming something of a recluse and eventually a refugee from US justice in Iceland
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720

    I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    I still dream of the 10/1 available on a Tory majority at 1am in 2015, or with Brexit or Trump at similar stages of the night. There’s no chance of any value like that again is there? We’ve been spoilt.
    Yes there is.

    The biggest betting opportunities are always in the opening odds, and the closing moments.

    Watch the markets like a hawk between 10pm and 2am next Thursday night.

    That's where the big opportunities will be.
    Correct got out of the shits in 2015 to record a small profit

    Won massive in 2017
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    That was a good spot, had been around 50 a couple of days ago. More than 2% return in a week, if anyone’s got a big bank?

    I’m going mostly all-in on the Con Maj at 1.4, so long as BJ can avoid saying something really stupid in the next couple of hours.
    I was musing over whether he’d find a legitimate opportunity to say “people of colour” to troll channel four. But I don’t see a market.
    He’ll troll them with ‘people of talent’, repeating it at least twice and really slowly. Everyone in the audience who’s been watching the news today will laugh. Johnson’s good at using techniques like that to disarm people.
    Nice to know he is good at something
  • rcs1000 said:

    melcf said:

    stodge said:

    melcf said:

    I keep hearing this ' Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser'.
    Well, if one was a real terrorist, how would they try and harm the United Kingdom?
    Let me think
    - Causing misery and economic hardships for the many, not the few?
    - Make tens of thousands homeless, specially single mums and children
    - cause rising death rate amongst the elderly, due to cuts in social and health care
    - Cause internal divisions and a near civil war among the general population, by divisive games, such as Brexit
    - Cause a slump in the economy and with the falling pound, rising prises
    - lastly, try and bring our centuries old United Kingdom union under threat
    --- Sorry, Mr Terrorist, no vacancy for the above. Thus job has been filed, for the last 9.5 years, with excellent references. Come back in 2024

    There is a valid question which is why nearly fifteen years after the 7/7/attacks, we are still seeing home-grown radicalised Islamists spreading terror in London?

    Successive Governments have implemented layer upon layer of a security state with surveillance aplenty and yet we have completely failed to eradicate the root cause of the problem in any meaningful sense for all the death in Syria, Iraq and elsewhere.

    I imagine Johnson and Patel will witter on about longer sentences, tougher this and harsher that but ultimately we seem no nearer ending the scourge of such terror.
    The solution is more austerity and oven ready Brexit??
    Austerity is the inevitable consequence of an ageing population. What we need to do is to make sure the burden is shared equitably, and to encourage people to retire ever later.
    One positive thing I will say about a Labour Government (possibly the only one) is that it will unwind some of the perks given to the retired/elderly and rebalance to the young a bit.

    We (the Conservatives) simply can't do it as we get far too many of our votes from there.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,824
    edited December 2019

    kinabalu said:

    Loving that chess exchange.

    A play about Fischer Spassky is on at Hampstead theatre. I hope to go see it.

    Fischer was a class above but mad as a brush and very volatile. His refusal to defend his title led to him becoming something of a recluse and eventually a refugee from US justice in Iceland
    And to conclude the chess, Carlsen vs Lagrave lifetime stats
    Won 20, drawn 25, lost 9 (all formats) so not that unlikely an outcome, 2 to 1 against
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    rcs1000 said:

    melcf said:

    stodge said:

    melcf said:

    I keep hearing this ' Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser'.
    Well, if one was a real terrorist, how would they try and harm the United Kingdom?
    Let me think
    - Causing misery and economic hardships for the many, not the few?
    - Make tens of thousands homeless, specially single mums and children
    - cause rising death rate amongst the elderly, due to cuts in social and health care
    - Cause internal divisions and a near civil war among the general population, by divisive games, such as Brexit
    - Cause a slump in the economy and with the falling pound, rising prises
    - lastly, try and bring our centuries old United Kingdom union under threat
    --- Sorry, Mr Terrorist, no vacancy for the above. Thus job has been filed, for the last 9.5 years, with excellent references. Come back in 2024

    There is a valid question which is why nearly fifteen years after the 7/7/attacks, we are still seeing home-grown radicalised Islamists spreading terror in London?

    Successive Governments have implemented layer upon layer of a security state with surveillance aplenty and yet we have completely failed to eradicate the root cause of the problem in any meaningful sense for all the death in Syria, Iraq and elsewhere.

    I imagine Johnson and Patel will witter on about longer sentences, tougher this and harsher that but ultimately we seem no nearer ending the scourge of such terror.
    The solution is more austerity and oven ready Brexit??
    Austerity is the inevitable consequence of an ageing population. What we need to do is to make sure the burden is shared equitably, and to encourage people to retire ever later.
    My view is we take a radical step. Shift the whole education/work life cycle by at least 2 years. So kids do not start formal school until they are 7. They take their GCSEs at 18, A levels at 20 and then go to university, graduating at 23. This means they enter the job market later. One advantage of this is that they are not trying to take important exams when they are in the middle of massive physiological and psychological changes of their middle teens. It also eases the job market so that there is more space for older people to work later at the other end.
    I like that.

    But while it undoubtedly helps, it doesn't solve the issue that the UK's population pyramid is biggest at the 50-54 point. That group is a third larger than the 15-19 age group.
  • I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    I still dream of the 10/1 available on a Tory majority at 1am in 2015, or with Brexit or Trump at similar stages of the night. There’s no chance of any value like that again is there? We’ve been spoilt.
    Yes there is.

    The biggest betting opportunities are always in the opening odds, and the closing moments.

    Watch the markets like a hawk between 10pm and 2am next Thursday night.

    That's where the big opportunities will be.
    Correct got out of the shits in 2015 to record a small profit

    Won massive in 2017
    Yes, that's how I won on the referendum and Trump winning. Cleaned up right after Farage conceded/US Networks edged towards calling it for Hillary.

    (sorry to hear about your illness, BJO, hope you're taking it easy).
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    edited December 2019
    rcs1000 said:



    I like that.

    But while it undoubtedly helps, it doesn't solve the issue that the UK's population pyramid is biggest at the 50-54 point. That group is a third larger than the 15-19 age group.

    I agree. There will need to be a lot more creative thinking and a lot more acceptance that working life will be longer for our children than it was for our parents. I am already resigned to working well past legal retirement age but am fortunate in the fact that the work I do requires more mind and less body.
  • kinabalu said:

    Loving that chess exchange.

    A play about Fischer Spassky is on at Hampstead theatre. I hope to go see it.

    Nice one, mate!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    I still dream of the 10/1 available on a Tory majority at 1am in 2015, or with Brexit or Trump at similar stages of the night. There’s no chance of any value like that again is there? We’ve been spoilt.
    Yes there is.

    The biggest betting opportunities are always in the opening odds, and the closing moments.

    Watch the markets like a hawk between 10pm and 2am next Thursday night.

    That's where the big opportunities will be.
    Correct got out of the shits in 2015 to record a small profit

    Won massive in 2017
    Ha, you were probably betting against me in 2017!

    (Sorry to hear you’re not well BTW, some things are more important than political disagreements).
  • My own theory, for what little it's worth, is that there aren't really many floating voters in this campaign compared to others because the issues at stake are so divisive.

    I'm really struggling to imagine the sort of voter who is till weighing up whether to vote Tory, labour or Liberal. There will be some, of course, but i expect many fewer than is typical.

    Differential turnout, scale of tactical voting or the polls being systematically wrong might lead to a surprise result, but most people's voting intentions have been frozen in aspic for several weeks.

    The only ones I can think of are your Southern soft Tory remainer types, thinking can we really go for Boris or do we go Lib Dem. That could obviously swing 10 seats in the South.

    The big factor in this GE, given how the Tories have set their campaign, is do they break the Red firewall in the Midlands and especially the North. If they don't, all those southern seats are going to make it very iffy for a majority, if they do, things could swing a lot more than UNS to the Tories.
    I've covered a wide range of outcomes, so I should be up 30% on my aggregated stakes regardless of what happens.

    My best result is a Tory score of 340-360 seats but I do worry if I'm too skinny on a landslide (380+ seats), and even 400+ seats.

    I'll be looking at value bets there in the final few days.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    That was a good spot, had been around 50 a couple of days ago. More than 2% return in a week, if anyone’s got a big bank?

    I’m going mostly all-in on the Con Maj at 1.4, so long as BJ can avoid saying something really stupid in the next couple of hours.
    I was musing over whether he’d find a legitimate opportunity to say “people of colour” to troll channel four. But I don’t see a market.
    He’ll troll them with ‘people of talent’, repeating it at least twice and really slowly. Everyone in the audience who’s been watching the news today will laugh. Johnson’s good at using techniques like that to disarm people.
    "Tories of PB".
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    @rcs1000 and threat.

    I disagree. The nature of risk has changed. When the terrorist is willing (and perhaps even keen) to die while performing the terrorist action, that fundamentally changes the analysis and the risk perception. One could be standing in the middle of Trafalgar Square with only people around you and still be killed.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:

    Pretty graph.

    Last time the polls were this stable during a campaign was 2010, and they got it pretty much spot on (result +7.2%, average of final polls 6.9)
    Difference between then and now is that the Lib Dem seat count has broadly switched to the SNP count which makes it harder for Labour but easier for the Tories to get a majority
    Probably more for 2024 than now, but it does look quite challenging for Labour to get an overall majority of one without a big Scottish recovery. One for Friday morning if we’re not all surprised by a hung Parliament I guess.
    Except they may be forced to work out how to win in England again. IMHO Brexit makes Scottish secession more likely.
    Fair point. My instinct is we’ll get an orderly Brexit and it won’t come to that, but it might. And if does, then that has to be a very scary prospect for Labour.
    Even scarier for the rest of us. Do you think that perpetual Tory rule is a good thing?
    As long as Labour is this far left, abso-friggin-lutely!
  • Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:
    Pretty graph.

    Last time the polls were this stable during a campaign was 2010, and they got it pretty much spot on (result +7.2%, average of final polls 6.9)
    Difference between then and now is that the Lib Dem seat count has broadly switched to the SNP count which makes it harder for Labour but easier for the Tories to get a majority
    Absolutely. The Scottish bloc isn't essential to Labour when it can win decisively in England, of course, but it becomes crucial in a tight race.

    The last time Labour won an English majority, before Blairism and the embrace of the Thatcherite settlement (i.e. the last convincing Old Labour victory) was in 1966.
    Meaning the issue of Scottish votes for English laws will become massive sooner rather than later.
  • rcs1000 said:



    It's remarkable how little awareness there is of how many people died in terrorist attacks across Europe in the 1970s. If you go back further in time, you find terrorism has been with us a hundred years or so.

    In other words, there's no greater risk in dying in a terrorist incident now than in 2000 or 2005, and a lot less than in 1975. Yet the Internet has allowed us all to convince ourselves we're facing some unprecedented threat.

    I also find it amazing how few people realise there were hundreds of terrorist bombings across the US in the 70s with many people killed. Most of them were home grown rather than foreign nationals. I only really learnt about it by watching the very excellent 'The Seventies' series recently
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    edited December 2019

    Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:

    Pretty graph.

    Last time the polls were this stable during a campaign was 2010, and they got it pretty much spot on (result +7.2%, average of final polls 6.9)
    Difference between then and now is that the Lib Dem seat count has broadly switched to the SNP count which makes it harder for Labour but easier for the Tories to get a majority
    Probably more for 2024 than now, but it does look quite challenging for Labour to get an overall majority of one without a big Scottish recovery. One for Friday morning if we’re not all surprised by a hung Parliament I guess.
    Except they may be forced to work out how to win in England again. IMHO Brexit makes Scottish secession more likely.
    Fair point. My instinct is we’ll get an orderly Brexit and it won’t come to that, but it might. And if does, then that has to be a very scary prospect for Labour.
    Even scarier for the rest of us. Do you think that perpetual Tory rule is a good thing?
    No, why? I was just musing over how hard it might be for Labour. Sad for the country, if anything.
    Just asking. I think there are some one here who think that perpetual rule by one party of the other is a Good Thing ™
  • Mike is choosing to be somewhat selective about the spread-betting firms' GE Tory seats spreads. While he shows Sporting's mid-spread as being 342, he omits to mention that Spreadex's corresponding mid-spread price is barely changed at 346.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    rcs1000 said:

    melcf said:

    stodge said:

    melcf said:

    I keep hearing this ' Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser'.
    Well, if one was a real terrorist, how would they try and harm the United Kingdom?
    Let me think
    - Causing misery and economic hardships for the many, not the few?
    - Make tens of thousands homeless, specially single mums and children
    - cause rising death rate amongst the elderly, due to cuts in social and health care
    - Cause internal divisions and a near civil war among the general population, by divisive games, such as Brexit
    - Cause a slump in the economy and with the falling pound, rising prises
    - lastly, try and bring our centuries old United Kingdom union under threat
    --- Sorry, Mr Terrorist, no vacancy for the above. Thus job has been filed, for the last 9.5 years, with excellent references. Come back in 2024

    There is a valid question which is why nearly fifteen years after the 7/7/attacks, we are still seeing home-grown radicalised Islamists spreading terror in London?

    Successive Governments have implemented layer upon layer of a security state with surveillance aplenty and yet we have completely failed to eradicate the root cause of the problem in any meaningful sense for all the death in Syria, Iraq and elsewhere.

    I imagine Johnson and Patel will witter on about longer sentences, tougher this and harsher that but ultimately we seem no nearer ending the scourge of such terror.
    The solution is more austerity and oven ready Brexit??
    Austerity is the inevitable consequence of an ageing population. What we need to do is to make sure the burden is shared equitably, and to encourage people to retire ever later.
    One positive thing I will say about a Labour Government (possibly the only one) is that it will unwind some of the perks given to the retired/elderly and rebalance to the young a bit.

    We (the Conservatives) simply can't do it as we get far too many of our votes from there.
    If there are votes in it they won’t - see the Waspi bribe.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    kinabalu said:

    Will the BJorgs who immediately stated that it was perfectly acceptable terminology while simultaneously being brilliantly targetted at a certain type of voter also be making desperate attempts to delete their posts? Let's hope they don't succeed 'cos it was fckn hilarious.

    Yes that was a point I tried and failed to get traction with.

    Before the correction there were plenty of "Boris" fans who were defending what they at that point thought he had said. Which was as follows -

    "No problem with people of colour coming here so long as it is controlled."

    😫
    "democratically controlled".

    And it did seem a fucking weird thing for Boris to say, but as it was being reported by Channel Fake News, we had to believe it. ....
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    edited December 2019

    rcs1000 said:



    It's remarkable how little awareness there is of how many people died in terrorist attacks across Europe in the 1970s. If you go back further in time, you find terrorism has been with us a hundred years or so.

    In other words, there's no greater risk in dying in a terrorist incident now than in 2000 or 2005, and a lot less than in 1975. Yet the Internet has allowed us all to convince ourselves we're facing some unprecedented threat.

    I also find it amazing how few people realise there were hundreds of terrorist bombings across the US in the 70s with many people killed. Most of them were home grown rather than foreign nationals. I only really learnt about it by watching the very excellent 'The Seventies' series recently
    It's theorized that in America the crime rate went sky high due to returning Vietnam veterans and the corruption and instability associated with the war.
    In Europe it was the USSR and the Saudis funding red terror and palestinian groups.

    The movie Wrong is Right with Sean Connery is based on the madness of that time.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited December 2019

    rcs1000 said:

    Austerity is the inevitable consequence of an ageing population. What we need to do is to make sure the burden is shared equitably, and to encourage people to retire ever later.

    One positive thing I will say about a Labour Government (possibly the only one) is that it will unwind some of the perks given to the retired/elderly and rebalance to the young a bit.

    We (the Conservatives) simply can't do it as we get far too many of our votes from there.
    No chance. Labour (especially the current iteration, but also true of the party more generally) loves creating handouts.

    Winter Fuel Payment and free TV licences were both Labour bungs, and the probability of their repealing the state pension triple lock is approximately zero. We all know what happened when Theresa May proposed the dementia tax, and inheritance tax is almost uniquely despised by the electorate (because the hard-pressed middle-aged kids of well-to-do pensioners expect some reward for all those taxes they've had to pay towards the upkeep of their parents when they finally shuffle off.) And then there's the WASPI bung debacle.

    You might get some novel form of property taxation that would disproportionately affect homeowners (and would, therefore, be skewed *slightly* towards the upper end of the age range) but not very much else.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    That was a good spot, had been around 50 a couple of days ago. More than 2% return in a week, if anyone’s got a big bank?

    I’m going mostly all-in on the Con Maj at 1.4, so long as BJ can avoid saying something really stupid in the next couple of hours.
    I was musing over whether he’d find a legitimate opportunity to say “people of colour” to troll channel four. But I don’t see a market.
    He’ll troll them with ‘people of talent’, repeating it at least twice and really slowly. Everyone in the audience who’s been watching the news today will laugh. Johnson’s good at using techniques like that to disarm people.
    "Tories of PB".
    The true people of talent.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    BluerBlue said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:

    Pretty graph.

    Last time the polls were this stable during a campaign was 2010, and they got it pretty much spot on (result +7.2%, average of final polls 6.9)
    Difference between then and now is that the Lib Dem seat count has broadly switched to the SNP count which makes it harder for Labour but easier for the Tories to get a majority
    Probably more for 2024 than now, but it does look quite challenging for Labour to get an overall majority of one without a big Scottish recovery. One for Friday morning if we’re not all surprised by a hung Parliament I guess.
    Except they may be forced to work out how to win in England again. IMHO Brexit makes Scottish secession more likely.
    Fair point. My instinct is we’ll get an orderly Brexit and it won’t come to that, but it might. And if does, then that has to be a very scary prospect for Labour.
    Even scarier for the rest of us. Do you think that perpetual Tory rule is a good thing?
    As long as Labour is this far left, abso-friggin-lutely!
    Indeed so! The only way Labour win an election is by getting natural conservatives to vote for them - as Tony Blair did in ‘97.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,724

    andy3664 said:

    Maybe nobody will notice, but today has been a terrible day for the Tories.

    A grovelling apology by Channel 4 for doctoring a Boris speech and Sturgeon, Starmer, Abbott, Umunna and others having to make desperate attempts to delete their tweets is a bad day for the conservatives
    Will the BJorgs who immediately stated that it was perfectly acceptable terminology while simultaneously being brilliantly targetted at a certain type of voter also be making desperate attempts to delete their posts? Let's hope they don't succeed 'cos it was fckn hilarious.
    Well, it IS perfectly acceptable terminology, and the idea that it was a brilliantly targetted plot to get the ear of a certain type of voter mainly came from those who had decided he had said what he hadn't.. they must have been sitting on that conspiracy theory for months!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847

    Fischer was a class above but mad as a brush and very volatile. His refusal to defend his title led to him becoming something of a recluse and eventually a refugee from US justice in Iceland

    Yes I've read a lot on him and on the 72 match. It's one of my fascinations.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    rcs1000 said:

    Austerity is the inevitable consequence of an ageing population. What we need to do is to make sure the burden is shared equitably, and to encourage people to retire ever later.

    My view is we take a radical step. Shift the whole education/work life cycle by at least 2 years. So kids do not start formal school until they are 7. They take their GCSEs at 18, A levels at 20 and then go to university, graduating at 23. This means they enter the job market later. One advantage of this is that they are not trying to take important exams when they are in the middle of massive physiological and psychological changes of their middle teens. It also eases the job market so that there is more space for older people to work later at the other end.
    That's a really interesting idea and I think we should be considering a wider range of ideas, beyond the tired range of arguments over public vs private sector and tax/spending rates.

    My only worry is that it would push back the age at which people would be established and ready to start a family. Arguably the average age of first child is later than biologically ideal. Although pushing that age back further is one way to reduce the population without reducing the number of children people have.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720
    Betting Post Mark Allen snooker looks like going 3-1 down so now available at 1.46 to win.

    I reckon its pretty much a certainty
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,824
    edited December 2019
    kinabalu said:

    Fischer was a class above but mad as a brush and very volatile. His refusal to defend his title led to him becoming something of a recluse and eventually a refugee from US justice in Iceland

    Yes I've read a lot on him and on the 72 match. It's one of my fascinations.
    You should look up the online games he allegedly played with Nigel short before Fischer died, quite extraordinary
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:
    Pretty graph.

    Last time the polls were this stable during a campaign was 2010, and they got it pretty much spot on (result +7.2%, average of final polls 6.9)
    Difference between then and now is that the Lib Dem seat count has broadly switched to the SNP count which makes it harder for Labour but easier for the Tories to get a majority
    Absolutely. The Scottish bloc isn't essential to Labour when it can win decisively in England, of course, but it becomes crucial in a tight race.

    The last time Labour won an English majority, before Blairism and the embrace of the Thatcherite settlement (i.e. the last convincing Old Labour victory) was in 1966.
    Meaning the issue of Scottish votes for English laws will become massive sooner rather than later.
    Potentially yes. Two things about the devolution settlement might, ultimately, prove fatal to the Union: the way in which its initial implementation was botched, and its asymmetry. The first has already had its effect (it does much to explain the ascent of the SNP to dominance); the second might only become pivotal if the Union survives long enough for that to occur. Not a given if Brexit proceeds.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    rcs1000 said:



    I like that.

    But while it undoubtedly helps, it doesn't solve the issue that the UK's population pyramid is biggest at the 50-54 point. That group is a third larger than the 15-19 age group.

    I agree. There will need to be a lot more creative thinking and a lot more acceptance that working life will be longer for our children than it was for our parents. I am already resigned to working well past legal retirement age but am fortunate in the fact that the work I do requires more mind and less body.
    While that helps I see my Dad, who was an actuary, and he's only 73 but his short term memory is deteriorating and he's said he doesn't have the mental agility he used to.

    How am I going to work to 75 if I can't do anything too physical and I can't do complicated coding either?
  • franklynfranklyn Posts: 297
    I don't support the Labour party and wouldn't vote for them, but there is one policy which they may be correct on, their suggestion that public schools should be abolished. When you reflect on the fact that after six years at Eton, Boris cannot coherently string a sentence together, and can't speak for more than 10 seconds without telling a fib, you do wonder what damage that sort of school is doing to kids. After an expensive education the poor chap is virtually unemployable, except as a politician, where lies and deceit are regarded as virtues.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,392
    I'm watching the interview with Bozo on ITV. Except Bozo didn't turn up, so they are broadcasting a retrospective of the great man's career.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    rcs1000 said:

    Austerity is the inevitable consequence of an ageing population. What we need to do is to make sure the burden is shared equitably, and to encourage people to retire ever later.

    My view is we take a radical step. Shift the whole education/work life cycle by at least 2 years. So kids do not start formal school until they are 7. They take their GCSEs at 18, A levels at 20 and then go to university, graduating at 23. This means they enter the job market later. One advantage of this is that they are not trying to take important exams when they are in the middle of massive physiological and psychological changes of their middle teens. It also eases the job market so that there is more space for older people to work later at the other end.
    That's a really interesting idea and I think we should be considering a wider range of ideas, beyond the tired range of arguments over public vs private sector and tax/spending rates.

    My only worry is that it would push back the age at which people would be established and ready to start a family. Arguably the average age of first child is later than biologically ideal. Although pushing that age back further is one way to reduce the population without reducing the number of children people have.
    Discouraging people from having kids until they get progressively later into life is a recipe for increasing the proportion of children that are born with disabilities. This is a topic rarely raised, because people have rightful concerns about sounding negative about the disabled and they don't want to discuss potentially embarrassing subjects (such as the decline in the quality of sperm as a man ages, or the extra costs associated with a rising percentage of disabled people in the population,) but it's pertinent nonetheless as you suggest.

    We always come back to the same problem in these arguments. The best thing to do, given that resources are finite, is to make life less cushy for the old and help the young out a bit. But the old are numerous and they vote more reliably. So we get a gerontocracy.
  • franklyn said:

    I don't support the Labour party and wouldn't vote for them, but there is one policy which they may be correct on, their suggestion that public schools should be abolished. When you reflect on the fact that after six years at Eton, Boris cannot coherently string a sentence together, and can't speak for more than 10 seconds without telling a fib, you do wonder what damage that sort of school is doing to kids. After an expensive education the poor chap is virtually unemployable, except as a politician, where lies and deceit are regarded as virtues.

    I don't hold a candle for Eton in particular, but I think it's fair to say that in recent years it's mostly been their lesser products who have gone into politics. The rest are happily beavering away productively in other fields.
  • I'm watching the interview with Bozo on ITV. Except Bozo didn't turn up, so they are broadcasting a retrospective of the great man's career.

    They will survive the Great Broadcasting Cull of 2020...
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    BluerBlue said:

    franklyn said:

    I don't support the Labour party and wouldn't vote for them, but there is one policy which they may be correct on, their suggestion that public schools should be abolished. When you reflect on the fact that after six years at Eton, Boris cannot coherently string a sentence together, and can't speak for more than 10 seconds without telling a fib, you do wonder what damage that sort of school is doing to kids. After an expensive education the poor chap is virtually unemployable, except as a politician, where lies and deceit are regarded as virtues.

    I don't hold a candle for Eton in particular, but I think it's fair to say that in recent years it's mostly been their lesser products who have gone into politics. The rest are happily beavering away productively in other fields.
    And to be absolutely fair to Eton, neither it (nor any other school, state or otherwise) can be expected to fashion a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
  • Blimey - going through my post and there's an English Democrat leaflet in there...

    And one of the snipped pictures in it is this infamous one but with Farage and the wording removed....

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/nigel-farage-defends-ukip-breaking-point-poster-queue-of-migrants



  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,392
    BluerBlue said:

    franklyn said:

    I don't support the Labour party and wouldn't vote for them, but there is one policy which they may be correct on, their suggestion that public schools should be abolished. When you reflect on the fact that after six years at Eton, Boris cannot coherently string a sentence together, and can't speak for more than 10 seconds without telling a fib, you do wonder what damage that sort of school is doing to kids. After an expensive education the poor chap is virtually unemployable, except as a politician, where lies and deceit are regarded as virtues.

    I don't hold a candle for Eton in particular, but I think it's fair to say that in recent years it's mostly been their lesser products who have gone into politics. The rest are happily beavering away productively in other fields.
    I thought it was the Eastern Europeans beavering away in the fields?
  • franklyn said:

    I don't support the Labour party and wouldn't vote for them, but there is one policy which they may be correct on, their suggestion that public schools should be abolished. When you reflect on the fact that after six years at Eton, Boris cannot coherently string a sentence together, and can't speak for more than 10 seconds without telling a fib, you do wonder what damage that sort of school is doing to kids. After an expensive education the poor chap is virtually unemployable, except as a politician, where lies and deceit are regarded as virtues.

    But where would he be if he hadn't gone to Eton? Selling used cars? Living on an estate with a string of illegitimate kids? In jail? If Eton can elevate someone of such abundant mediocrity to the role of Prime Minister of the United Kingdom it must be worth the fees surely.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,287
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    I've just laid two big ones against Labour Majority on Betfair.

    Also, tipped off my city trader friend so can't imagine the low hundreds of quids of 44s and 46s available there will last too long.

    That was a good spot, had been around 50 a couple of days ago. More than 2% return in a week, if anyone’s got a big bank?

    I’m going mostly all-in on the Con Maj at 1.4, so long as BJ can avoid saying something really stupid in the next couple of hours.
    I was musing over whether he’d find a legitimate opportunity to say “people of colour” to troll channel four. But I don’t see a market.
    He’ll troll them with ‘people of talent’, repeating it at least twice and really slowly. Everyone in the audience who’s been watching the news today will laugh. Johnson’s good at using techniques like that to disarm people.
    "Tories of PB".
    The true people of talent.
    I feel sure there are people of colour too...
  • BluerBlue said:

    franklyn said:

    I don't support the Labour party and wouldn't vote for them, but there is one policy which they may be correct on, their suggestion that public schools should be abolished. When you reflect on the fact that after six years at Eton, Boris cannot coherently string a sentence together, and can't speak for more than 10 seconds without telling a fib, you do wonder what damage that sort of school is doing to kids. After an expensive education the poor chap is virtually unemployable, except as a politician, where lies and deceit are regarded as virtues.

    I don't hold a candle for Eton in particular, but I think it's fair to say that in recent years it's mostly been their lesser products who have gone into politics. The rest are happily beavering away productively in other fields.
    I thought it was the Eastern Europeans beavering away in the fields?
    Estonians not Etonians.
  • Floater said:

    I have received an e mail today asking Labour Members in Chesterfield to go to Bolsover and NE Derbyshire for the remainder of the Campaign.

    As i am not able to walk more than about 10 paces wont be doing either but i think the former is close the latter unwinnable

    Any news on when you can have treatment?
    I am too difficult to operate on apparently so nothing can be done other than medication

    Both Stent and Bypass option ruled out

    Getting by with GTN and the blue badge though
    Really sorry to hear you are between a rock and a hard place. I hope at the very least the docs can stabilise your condition to give you the best available quality of life. I know we don't often agree about politics but you are a 1st rate PBer and I for one love reading your contributions. Keep well.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847

    And it did seem a fucking weird thing for Boris to say, but as it was being reported by Channel Fake News, we had to believe it. ....

    Yes you must have been scratching your heads. People of colour? Surely not our "Boris". He says it as it is.
  • IanB2 said:
    Indeed but I guess Labour wouldn't put him up... :)
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    rcs1000 said:

    Austerity is the inevitable consequence of an ageing population. What we need to do is to make sure the burden is shared equitably, and to encourage people to retire ever later.

    My view is we take a radical step. Shift the whole education/work life cycle by at least 2 years. So kids do not start formal school until they are 7. They take their GCSEs at 18, A levels at 20 and then go to university, graduating at 23. This means they enter the job market later. One advantage of this is that they are not trying to take important exams when they are in the middle of massive physiological and psychological changes of their middle teens. It also eases the job market so that there is more space for older people to work later at the other end.
    That's a really interesting idea and I think we should be considering a wider range of ideas, beyond the tired range of arguments over public vs private sector and tax/spending rates.

    My only worry is that it would push back the age at which people would be established and ready to start a family. Arguably the average age of first child is later than biologically ideal. Although pushing that age back further is one way to reduce the population without reducing the number of children people have.
    Discouraging people from having kids until they get progressively later into life is a recipe for increasing the proportion of children that are born with disabilities. This is a topic rarely raised, because people have rightful concerns about sounding negative about the disabled and they don't want to discuss potentially embarrassing subjects (such as the decline in the quality of sperm as a man ages, or the extra costs associated with a rising percentage of disabled people in the population,) but it's pertinent nonetheless as you suggest.

    We always come back to the same problem in these arguments. The best thing to do, given that resources are finite, is to make life less cushy for the old and help the young out a bit. But the old are numerous and they vote more reliably. So we get a gerontocracy.
    "Discouraging people from having kids until they get progressively later into life is a recipe for increasing the proportion of children that are born with disabilities."

    From my admittedly now fairly ancient experience of the Far East, the richer folk out there seemed to avoid this problem by marrying much younger women. Problem solved?
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited December 2019
    BluerBlue said:

    franklyn said:

    I don't support the Labour party and wouldn't vote for them, but there is one policy which they may be correct on, their suggestion that public schools should be abolished. When you reflect on the fact that after six years at Eton, Boris cannot coherently string a sentence together, and can't speak for more than 10 seconds without telling a fib, you do wonder what damage that sort of school is doing to kids. After an expensive education the poor chap is virtually unemployable, except as a politician, where lies and deceit are regarded as virtues.

    I don't hold a candle for Eton in particular, but I think it's fair to say that in recent years it's mostly been their lesser products who have gone into politics. The rest are happily beavering away productively in other fields.
    I’ve worked with some. They were bright, charming, hard-working people. Equally, I’ve worked with some people from state schools who were lazy, unempathetic and remarkably focused on their rights. The conclusion - some people are shits. Politics attracts shits.
  • Very much enjoyed the Julie Etchingham mini documentary on Boris. Hearing Dominic Grieve and other remainers calling him dishonest and unreliable will do Boris no harm with the Brexit supporting plain speakers in the midlands and north of England.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    BluerBlue said:

    I'm watching the interview with Bozo on ITV. Except Bozo didn't turn up, so they are broadcasting a retrospective of the great man's career.

    They will survive the Great Broadcasting Cull of 2020...
    They will get a camera feed live from the tumbrils.....
  • Best wishes to BJO as well - he might be a Corbynite headbanger at/most times, but he's OUR Corbynite headbanger and excellent value....

    +100
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    IanB2 said:
    Not sure I agree
  • 6.2 million. Or have we stopped counting?
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    rcs1000 said:

    Austerity is the inevitable consequence of an ageing population. What we need to do is to make sure the burden is shared equitably, and to encourage people to retire ever later.

    My view is we take a radical step. Shift the whole education/work life cycle by at least 2 years. So kids do not start formal school until they are 7. They take their GCSEs at 18, A levels at 20 and then go to university, graduating at 23. This means they enter the job market later. One advantage of this is that they are not trying to take important exams when they are in the middle of massive physiological and psychological changes of their middle teens. It also eases the job market so that there is more space for older people to work later at the other end.
    That's a really interesting idea and I think we should be considering a wider range of ideas, beyond the tired range of arguments over public vs private sector and tax/spending rates.

    My only worry is that it would push back the age at which people would be established and ready to start a family. Arguably the average age of first child is later than biologically ideal. Although pushing that age back further is one way to reduce the population without reducing the number of children people have.
    Discouraging people from having kids until they get progressively later into life is a recipe for increasing the proportion of children that are born with disabilities. This is a topic rarely raised, because people have rightful concerns about sounding negative about the disabled and they don't want to discuss potentially embarrassing subjects (such as the decline in the quality of sperm as a man ages, or the extra costs associated with a rising percentage of disabled people in the population,) but it's pertinent nonetheless as you suggest.

    We always come back to the same problem in these arguments. The best thing to do, given that resources are finite, is to make life less cushy for the old and help the young out a bit. But the old are numerous and they vote more reliably. So we get a gerontocracy.
    "Discouraging people from having kids until they get progressively later into life is a recipe for increasing the proportion of children that are born with disabilities."

    From my admittedly now fairly ancient experience of the Far East, the richer folk out there seemed to avoid this problem by marrying much younger women. Problem solved?
    I’m not sure that Gary Glitter is a role model.
  • 6.2 million. Or have we stopped counting?

    Time for another thread on the matter re the latest viewing score!

    Owen Jones alone must be good for 250,000 of them

    :)
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Anyone have a link for watching the debate for those outside the UK? can't find it on Youtube streaming
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    edited December 2019
    matt said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Austerity is the inevitable consequence of an ageing population. What we need to do is to make sure the burden is shared equitably, and to encourage people to retire ever later.

    My view is we take a radical step. Shift the whole education/work life cycle by at least 2 years. So kids do not start formal school until they are 7. They take their GCSEs at 18, A levels at 20 and then go to university, graduating at 23. This means they enter the job market later. One advantage of this is that they are not trying to take important exams when they are in the middle of massive physiological and psychological changes of their middle teens. It also eases the job market so that there is more space for older people to work later at the other end.
    That's a really interesting idea and I think we should be considering a wider range of ideas, beyond the tired range of arguments over public vs private sector and tax/spending rates.

    My only worry is that it would push back the age at which people would be established and ready to start a family. Arguably the average age of first child is later than biologically ideal. Although pushing that age back further is one way to reduce the population without reducing the number of children people have.
    Discouraging people from having kids until they get progressively later into life is a recipe for increasing the proportion of children that are born with disabilities. This is a topic rarely raised, because people have rightful concerns about sounding negative about the disabled and they don't want to discuss potentially embarrassing subjects (such as the decline in the quality of sperm as a man ages, or the extra costs associated with a rising percentage of disabled people in the population,) but it's pertinent nonetheless as you suggest.

    We always come back to the same problem in these arguments. The best thing to do, given that resources are finite, is to make life less cushy for the old and help the young out a bit. But the old are numerous and they vote more reliably. So we get a gerontocracy.
    "Discouraging people from having kids until they get progressively later into life is a recipe for increasing the proportion of children that are born with disabilities."

    From my admittedly now fairly ancient experience of the Far East, the richer folk out there seemed to avoid this problem by marrying much younger women. Problem solved?
    I’m not sure that Gary Glitter is a role model.
    That's a bit tenuous. He's neither Asian nor that keen on young women - too old for him. Lots of young widows around too, got their own money and just looking for fun.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Terrible start by Corbyn
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Terrible start by Corbyn
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Really terrible
This discussion has been closed.