Can this vacuous poshboy really be about to win a general election? Smazing.
Yes, probably with the biggest Tory majority since Thatcher
Does not make your support of him any less of a disgrace.
They have their donkey with a blue rosette it was always going to beat corbyn, I doubt if a single one of the Tory leadership contenders could have lost against corbyn. Labour will have plenty of time to reflect on what they have done, will they reach the right conclusion? I doubt it.
So far Boris coming across better. Not a slam dunk either way but Corbyn sounds like he's reading prepared talking points, Johnson seeming a bit more authoritative, and using his humour in a good way.
So far Boris coming across better. Not a slam dunk either way but Corbyn sounds like he's reading prepared talking points, Johnson seeming a bit more authoritative, and using his humour in a good way.
I don't support the Labour party and wouldn't vote for them, but there is one policy which they may be correct on, their suggestion that public schools should be abolished. When you reflect on the fact that after six years at Eton, Boris cannot coherently string a sentence together, and can't speak for more than 10 seconds without telling a fib, you do wonder what damage that sort of school is doing to kids. After an expensive education the poor chap is virtually unemployable, except as a politician, where lies and deceit are regarded as virtues.
There is no such policy in the Labour Manifesto. They ran away from the commitment - sensible decision.
Such a decision would cost multiple billions net per year, and would remove much diversity from the education system - one of my own nieces had to be moved to an independent school as the state system could not prevent bullying or supply necessary support.
That's leaving aside the approx billion a year spent on bursaries etc.
They know that a more diverse system is better - much of Corbyn's circle sent their children there.
Exactly and it would close some of the best schools in the world just as we are rising up the education rankings
You have always failed to understand the issues around private schools, if those who have the real influence and ability to make change happen in the state system are able to escape it through financial ability then the state system will never improve.
Corbyn keeps referring to history, Labour Building NHS, Tories were against it postwar etc. Could be a way of pushing on the dead ancestors rolling in their graves idea, give the lab tory switchers last minute guilt
Top point by Boris on Corbyn's support for a united Ireland.
Boris has done more for a United Ireland in one year than Corbyn in his lifetime
No he has protected the Good Friday Agreement and avoided a hard border in Ireland while keeping Northern Ireland in the UK and out of the EU
By creating the foundation for differential NI/GB rules and selling the DUP down the river it will become more credible NB for trading purposes to treat NI as a subdivision of an United Ireland instead of an integral part of the UK. Following changes in RoI electoral rules, Irish passport holders in NI will be able to vote in Dail elections. Given the increasing unification of Ireland for trading and electoral purposes, it becomes more difficult to sustain your point.
Not really though Corbyn is smashing Johnson which is good to see
He does at least have an agenda for the country, although I agree with others that he seems tired. I doubt he wants the job. Bozo on the other hand wants the job but has nothing to offer the country.
Not really though Corbyn is smashing Johnson which is good to see
He does at least have an agenda for the country, although I agree with others that he seems tired. I doubt he wants the job. Bozo on the other hand wants the job but has nothing to offer the country.
Bozza is offering Brexit and "not Corbyn". I think that's probably enough.
Not really though Corbyn is smashing Johnson which is good to see
He does at least have an agenda for the country, although I agree with others that he seems tired. I doubt he wants the job. Bozo on the other hand wants the job but has nothing to offer the country.
Bozza is offering Brexit and "not Corbyn". I think that's probably enough.
Enough to get elected, perhaps, but otherwise nowhere near enough.
There are two seriously pessimistic articles on the Guardian website right now, from Corbyn cheerleaders who normally big him up
More than that.
"Corbyn still plays the crowds - but spirit of 2017 elusive" "'Get Brexit Done': PM's strategy resonates with marginal voters" "Poll tracker: Tories maintain lead over Labour" "There's a faultline running through Labour. Can it ever be healed?" "The difficult truth for Liberals: Labour must win back social conservatives" "Labour has a strong economic plan. But it still has to shift voters’ faith in austerity" and, from Monday, "Labour’s ‘red wall’ is looking shaky. But the problems started decades ago"
It's mostly doom and gloom. The Stats for Lefties person pops up to claim that Labour might yet be rescued by a "Youthquake," but it does all sound rather like straw clutching. Surely if Labour is going to survive serious damage, and at least get another Hung Parliament at the end of all of this, then it's going to have to rely on the Labour Leavers coming home? Very young voters ought to help in the university seats but they're not going to be much use in manning the Red Wall.
I don't support the Labour party and wouldn't vote for them, but there is one policy which they may be correct on, their suggestion that public schools should be abolished. When you reflect on the fact that after six years at Eton, Boris cannot coherently string a sentence together, and can't speak for more than 10 seconds without telling a fib, you do wonder what damage that sort of school is doing to kids. After an expensive education the poor chap is virtually unemployable, except as a politician, where lies and deceit are regarded as virtues.
There is no such policy in the Labour Manifesto. They ran away from the commitment - sensible decision.
Such a decision would cost multiple billions net per year, and would remove much diversity from the education system - one of my own nieces had to be moved to an independent school as the state system could not prevent bullying or supply necessary support.
That's leaving aside the approx billion a year spent on bursaries etc.
They know that a more diverse system is better - much of Corbyn's circle sent their children there.
Exactly and it would close some of the best schools in the world just as we are rising up the education rankings
You have always failed to understand the issues around private schools, if those who have the real influence and ability to make change happen in the state system are able to escape it through financial ability then the state system will never improve.
Another time when I’m not fighting a cat for control of the keyboard I might tell you about the state schools of Ulaanbaator.
I don't support the Labour party and wouldn't vote for them, but there is one policy which they may be correct on, their suggestion that public schools should be abolished. When you reflect on the fact that after six years at Eton, Boris cannot coherently string a sentence together, and can't speak for more than 10 seconds without telling a fib, you do wonder what damage that sort of school is doing to kids. After an expensive education the poor chap is virtually unemployable, except as a politician, where lies and deceit are regarded as virtues.
There is no such policy in the Labour Manifesto. They ran away from the commitment - sensible decision.
Such a decision would cost multiple billions net per year, and would remove much diversity from the education system - one of my own nieces had to be moved to an independent school as the state system could not prevent bullying or supply necessary support.
That's leaving aside the approx billion a year spent on bursaries etc.
They know that a more diverse system is better - much of Corbyn's circle sent their children there.
Exactly and it would close some of the best schools in the world just as we are rising up the education rankings
You have always failed to understand the issues around private schools, if those who have the real influence and ability to make change happen in the state system are able to escape it through financial ability then the state system will never improve.
Except the facts show it is given we are rising up the PISA rankings even if it does not match your ideology
Not really though Corbyn is smashing Johnson which is good to see
He does at least have an agenda for the country, although I agree with others that he seems tired. I doubt he wants the job. Bozo on the other hand wants the job but has nothing to offer the country.
Bozza is offering Brexit and "not Corbyn". I think that's probably enough.
Enough to get elected, perhaps, but otherwise nowhere near enough.
Ultimately that's what Boris wants. I don't think he gives a fuck about anything after that. Hopefully the party fucks him when it becomes clear just how much of an empty suit he is.
Austerity is the inevitable consequence of an ageing population. What we need to do is to make sure the burden is shared equitably, and to encourage people to retire ever later.
My view is we take a radical step. Shift the whole education/work life cycle by at least 2 years. So kids do not start formal school until they are 7. They take their GCSEs at 18, A levels at 20 and then go to university, graduating at 23. This means they enter the job market later. One advantage of this is that they are not trying to take important exams when they are in the middle of massive physiological and psychological changes of their middle teens. It also eases the job market so that there is more space for older people to work later at the other end.
That's a really interesting idea and I think we should be considering a wider range of ideas, beyond the tired range of arguments over public vs private sector and tax/spending rates.
My only worry is that it would push back the age at which people would be established and ready to start a family. Arguably the average age of first child is later than biologically ideal. Although pushing that age back further is one way to reduce the population without reducing the number of children people have.
True but that appears to be ever more the norm anyway these days with women choosing to start families later on once they have established a career. I don't see this as a bad thing given the increasing life span. My first child was born when I was 35 and my second when I was 42. My wife is two years my junior.
Corbyn so much more sincere and thoughtful than Johnson. Such a contrast.
Corbyn just said his manifesto is "fully costed". And you allege he is sincere?!? lol
He is much better at appearing sincere.
He's better at appearing pious. And getting easy applause with virtuous piffle.
It makes him good at appealing to a crowd.
Winning over the audience won't help win the election though.
No, I expect not. Corbyn has talents as a campaigner and even as a leader - not that it makes him a good leader given he always starts out so far behind, but he couldn't inspire devotion like he does without some talent - but short of major movement right away, it's hard to see how he can 'win', and that's a win by getting a hung parliament not actually winning.
Top point by Boris on Corbyn's support for a united Ireland.
Boris has done more for a United Ireland in one year than Corbyn in his lifetime
No he has protected the Good Friday Agreement and avoided a hard border in Ireland while keeping Northern Ireland in the UK and out of the EU
By creating the foundation for differential NI/GB rules and selling the DUP down the river it will become more credible NB for trading purposes to treat NI as a subdivision of an United Ireland instead of an integral part of the UK. Following changes in RoI electoral rules, Irish passport holders in NI will be able to vote in Dail elections. Given the increasing unification of Ireland for trading and electoral purposes, it becomes more difficult to sustain your point.
No, the biggest boost to Irish unity would have been No Deal and a hard border with the Republic of Ireland which all Northern Ireland polls show would have led a majority of Northern Irish voters to vote for Irish unity.
Boris has avoided that and given Northern Ireland still the best of both worlds, in the UK but an open border with the Republic of Ireland
I haven't got TV and don't want to watch this anyway, so I'm following the comments here and at the BBC website. It seems to have been utterly boring so far. Has either of them done anything striking visually yet that pictures or clips of will get widely circulated?
Not really though Corbyn is smashing Johnson which is good to see
He does at least have an agenda for the country, although I agree with others that he seems tired. I doubt he wants the job. Bozo on the other hand wants the job but has nothing to offer the country.
Bozza is offering Brexit and "not Corbyn". I think that's probably enough.
Enough to get elected, perhaps, but otherwise nowhere near enough.
Ian, we will never hear of brexit ever again when it’s done on 31/1 the EU are so desperate they will say everything remains the same you just don’t have to pay any money any more but still enjoy all the benefits. The money will start flowing into the deprived areas and those awful immigrants will be on notice to leave. Boris says so so it must be true but even if he’s lying he is a likable toff
I haven't got TV and don't want to watch this anyway, so I'm following the comments here and at the BBC website. It seems to have been utterly boring so far. Has either of them done anything striking visually yet that pictures or clips of will get widely circulated?
Visually striking? Expecting Corbyn to do a handstand?
Corbyn's complete ignorance of economics is startling.
And this, courtesy of those right-wing fanatics at the Graun:
Factcheck
Claim: Jeremy Corbyn says his party will invest £40bn in the NHS.
Reality: Labour party literature consistently says that £26bn will be committed to the NHS. This figure appears to be new. It is unclear if increasing health spending by Labour’s previous figure of £26bn will be enough to deliver all the improvements Labour is seeking.
So that's another £14bn of spending conjured out of thin air. Still, next to the WASPI bribe (let alone the state investment bank) that's small change, I suppose.
Corbyn so much more sincere and thoughtful than Johnson. Such a contrast.
Corbyn just said his manifesto is "fully costed". And you allege he is sincere?!? lol
He is much better at appearing sincere.
He's better at appearing pious. And getting easy applause with virtuous piffle.
It makes him good at appealing to a crowd.
Winning over the audience won't help win the election though.
No, I expect not. Corbyn has talents as a campaigner and even as a leader - not that it makes him a good leader given he always starts out so far behind, but he couldn't inspire devotion like he does without some talent - but short of major movement right away, it's hard to see how he can 'win', and that's a win by getting a hung parliament not actually winning.
He has a major movement because all of these assorted lefties, are projecting their hopes and dreams on him despite clearly not being up to the job.
I haven't got TV and don't want to watch this anyway, so I'm following the comments here and at the BBC website. It seems to have been utterly boring so far. Has either of them done anything striking visually yet that pictures or clips of will get widely circulated?
It's the best debate of this election so far, but still not as entertaining as a Republican presidential debate.
I haven't got TV and don't want to watch this anyway, so I'm following the comments here and at the BBC website. It seems to have been utterly boring so far. Has either of them done anything striking visually yet that pictures or clips of will get widely circulated?
I hope I am reasonably neutral. I thought Corbyn did better than Boris in the last debate, for instance
This time Boris looks smarter, sharper, there's less bumbling. He has details, yet seems generous. (He is still lying tho)
Corbyn looks waffly, old, a bit knackered, and is helpless on Brexit, but also virtuous.
Corbyn DOES seem more sincere than Boris (not hard). Boris seems more prime ministerial
It's not a game changer. It is quite entertaining,
Corbyn so much more sincere and thoughtful than Johnson. Such a contrast.
Corbyn just said his manifesto is "fully costed". And you allege he is sincere?!? lol
He is much better at appearing sincere.
He's better at appearing pious. And getting easy applause with virtuous piffle.
It makes him good at appealing to a crowd.
Winning over the audience won't help win the election though.
No, I expect not. Corbyn has talents as a campaigner and even as a leader - not that it makes him a good leader given he always starts out so far behind, but he couldn't inspire devotion like he does without some talent - but short of major movement right away, it's hard to see how he can 'win', and that's a win by getting a hung parliament not actually winning.
He has a major movement because all of these assorted lefties, are projecting their hopes and dreams on him despite clearly not being up to the fact.
Not really though Corbyn is smashing Johnson which is good to see
I think I understand your model better now.
My comment is irrelevant to my model which is politically neutral. My comment was prompted by the OTT comments about Johnson smashing Corbyn. Objectively I think Corbyn has the edge in a thoughtful less bouncy way than Johnson. I think Robinson is doing very well.
Corbyn offering nothing to win over Conservative voters. Nothing.
I just don't see how he comes close to bridging the gap as a result.
He doesn't have to win any Tory voters. If he keeps the voters Labour had in 2017 minus those who have died plus the 60%+ he's polling among 18-19 year olds, he'll be in Number Ten next Friday.
Corbyn offering nothing to win over Conservative voters. Nothing.
I just don't see how he comes close to bridging the gap as a result.
He doesn't have to win any Tory voters. If he keeps Labour's 40.0% voteshare from 2017 minus those who have died plus the 60%+ he's polling among 18-19 year olds, he'll be in Number Ten next Friday.
Erm, any evidence he is on course to keep the 40% he got in 2017?
I haven't got TV and don't want to watch this anyway, so I'm following the comments here and at the BBC website. It seems to have been utterly boring so far. Has either of them done anything striking visually yet that pictures or clips of will get widely circulated?
Visually striking? Expecting Corbyn to do a handstand?
I haven't got TV and don't want to watch this anyway, so I'm following the comments here and at the BBC website. It seems to have been utterly boring so far. Has either of them done anything striking visually yet that pictures or clips of will get widely circulated?
It's the best debate of this election so far, but still not as entertaining as a Republican presidential debate.
it's a slightly less shit version of Question Time. but you can at least bet on it.
Corbyn so much more sincere and thoughtful than Johnson. Such a contrast.
Corbyn just said his manifesto is "fully costed". And you allege he is sincere?!? lol
He is much better at appearing sincere.
He's better at appearing pious. And getting easy applause with virtuous piffle.
It makes him good at appealing to a crowd.
Winning over the audience won't help win the election though.
No, I expect not. Corbyn has talents as a campaigner and even as a leader - not that it makes him a good leader given he always starts out so far behind, but he couldn't inspire devotion like he does without some talent - but short of major movement right away, it's hard to see how he can 'win', and that's a win by getting a hung parliament not actually winning.
He has a major movement because all of these assorted lefties, are projecting their hopes and dreams on him despite clearly not being up to the fact.
That is no doubt true, but not everyone is able to fill that kind of roll. It may well be an accidental talent he has tapped into, his thirty years of political impotence would suggest that, but while I think he is far from competent, and a lot more cynically political than his supporters suggest, I think it misses something to deny he has something about him, even if for many that seems inexplicable.
Not really though Corbyn is smashing Johnson which is good to see
I think I understand your model better now.
My comment is irrelevant to my model which is politically neutral. My comment was prompted by the OTT comments about Johnson smashing Corbyn. Objectively I think Corbyn has the edge in a thoughtful less bouncy way than Johnson. I think Robinson is doing very well.
There is one of these instant polls after this debate so humble pie will be eaten pretty quickly.
Boris is crashing an burning with every jumbled sentence!
That seems highly improbable. If either were as bad as people say they'd be in a position to be up on that stage - Boris's style is generally frenetic, but jumbled sentences clearly haven't harmed his career.
Not really though Corbyn is smashing Johnson which is good to see
I think I understand your model better now.
My comment is irrelevant to my model which is politically neutral. My comment was prompted by the OTT comments about Johnson smashing Corbyn. Objectively I think Corbyn has the edge in a thoughtful less bouncy way than Johnson. I think Robinson is doing very well.
Of course. Cheeky comment from me and I see now you were trolling, fair play you got me there. Agree Robinson is doing a great job in getting an actual debate going.
Comments
Corbyn goes on inequality
He is doing fine in first 10 mins
"Corbyn still plays the crowds - but spirit of 2017 elusive"
"'Get Brexit Done': PM's strategy resonates with marginal voters"
"Poll tracker: Tories maintain lead over Labour"
"There's a faultline running through Labour. Can it ever be healed?"
"The difficult truth for Liberals: Labour must win back social conservatives"
"Labour has a strong economic plan. But it still has to shift voters’ faith in austerity"
and, from Monday, "Labour’s ‘red wall’ is looking shaky. But the problems started decades ago"
It's mostly doom and gloom. The Stats for Lefties person pops up to claim that Labour might yet be rescued by a "Youthquake," but it does all sound rather like straw clutching. Surely if Labour is going to survive serious damage, and at least get another Hung Parliament at the end of all of this, then it's going to have to rely on the Labour Leavers coming home? Very young voters ought to help in the university seats but they're not going to be much use in manning the Red Wall.
I just don't see how he comes close to bridging the gap as a result.
If you mute the volume he's doing quite well.
"Our Manifesto is fully costed" is not a good reply.
Boris has avoided that and given Northern Ireland still the best of both worlds, in the UK but an open border with the Republic of Ireland
Factcheck
Claim: Jeremy Corbyn says his party will invest £40bn in the NHS.
Reality: Labour party literature consistently says that £26bn will be committed to the NHS. This figure appears to be new. It is unclear if increasing health spending by Labour’s previous figure of £26bn will be enough to deliver all the improvements Labour is seeking.
So that's another £14bn of spending conjured out of thin air. Still, next to the WASPI bribe (let alone the state investment bank) that's small change, I suppose.
This time Boris looks smarter, sharper, there's less bumbling. He has details, yet seems generous. (He is still lying tho)
Corbyn looks waffly, old, a bit knackered, and is helpless on Brexit, but also virtuous.
Corbyn DOES seem more sincere than Boris (not hard). Boris seems more prime ministerial
It's not a game changer. It is quite entertaining,
As in, bowel movement...
My comment was prompted by the OTT comments about Johnson smashing Corbyn.
Objectively I think Corbyn has the edge in a thoughtful less bouncy way than Johnson.
I think Robinson is doing very well.
Just as you will support Corbyn even if he endorses the Massacre of the Innocents.
That said, you may well be right about Johnson.
(Ducks)