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  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    Andy_JS said:

    We have deltapoll and yougov to come confirmed plus I guess a random Sun or Mirror poll if theyve bothered

    Will those polls shift the current average tonight of 42.7/32.3/13.0/ very much? I'd be surprised if they do.
    Well when the Tory lead in one poll is so massive not really. Whether you think that's an outlier or not, will I guess determine your views on that.

    I think it's an outlier - but I'm nearly always wrong so feel free to ignore!
    CHB you know best! Which is why is could still be LAB overall majority!
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited November 2019
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    We have deltapoll and yougov to come confirmed plus I guess a random Sun or Mirror poll if theyve bothered

    Will those polls shift the current average tonight of 42.7/32.3/13.0/ very much? I'd be surprised if they do.
    Well when the Tory lead in one poll is so massive not really. Whether you think that's an outlier or not, will I guess determine your views on that.

    I think it's an outlier - but I'm nearly always wrong so feel free to ignore!
    There are outliers in both directions, surely?
    Out of tonight's poll, that's the only outlier right? The other two are fairly similar?

    We need another one to see really.

    6 points within MOE could we 10 points and 10 points within MOE could be 6 points. 15 points is out of the MOE
  • egg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    dr_spyn said:
    I think we can safely say the 19% lead was an outlier.
    And 15% too I should think, but it's the trend that matters. Gap is closing but it's still large.
    That depends on what your starting point is.

    There's no change in the gap compared to two or four weeks ago but both Con and Lab are up a bit.
    What I find suspicious by this poll is BREX on 2.
    Brexit and Tory party support really that interchangeable? Even in labour areas?
    How much did UKIP get in 2017.
  • egg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    dr_spyn said:
    I think we can safely say the 19% lead was an outlier.
    And 15% too I should think, but it's the trend that matters. Gap is closing but it's still large.
    That depends on what your starting point is.

    There's no change in the gap compared to two or four weeks ago but both Con and Lab are up a bit.
    What I find suspicious by this poll is BREX on 2.
    Brexit and Tory party support really that interchangeable? Even in labour areas?
    It's also a very high Con+BP figure - so it's fairy nuff to shave a couple of points of it. Real Tory lead then becomes about 12% which is pretty much in line.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Andy_JS said:

    We have deltapoll and yougov to come confirmed plus I guess a random Sun or Mirror poll if theyve bothered

    Will those polls shift the current average tonight of 42.7/32.3/13.0/ very much? I'd be surprised if they do.
    Well when the Tory lead in one poll is so massive not really. Whether you think that's an outlier or not, will I guess determine your views on that.

    I think it's an outlier - but I'm nearly always wrong so feel free to ignore!
    The opinium is about as far away from the average as the BMG, they could both be outliers.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,604

    Andy_JS said:

    We have deltapoll and yougov to come confirmed plus I guess a random Sun or Mirror poll if theyve bothered

    Will those polls shift the current average tonight of 42.7/32.3/13.0/ very much? I'd be surprised if they do.
    Well when the Tory lead in one poll is so massive not really. Whether you think that's an outlier or not, will I guess determine your views on that.

    I think it's an outlier - but I'm nearly always wrong so feel free to ignore!
    The more polls you get, the more the effects of outliers are cancelled out. That's why it's good to get at least 5 polls on the same night.
  • Cyclefree said:

    I doubt Raab is in that much trouble. If he was, then seats would be at risk of falling to the LDs all over the Remainder and commuter south east.

    FPT - if that report of the Patel/Raab fallout over Hong Kong is accurate then that's disgraceful behaviour by our foreign secretary. We should never kowtow to China.

    If true, it speaks well of Patel. Perhaps a result of her own background. Her parents were a Ugandan Asians given refuge here by Heath, weren’t they?
    It does. I'm not sure she's even arguing for full BNO settlement rights either - just for the UK to be a temporary safe haven for those most at risk.

    Does her credit.
  • Brom said:

    Andy_JS said:

    We have deltapoll and yougov to come confirmed plus I guess a random Sun or Mirror poll if theyve bothered

    Will those polls shift the current average tonight of 42.7/32.3/13.0/ very much? I'd be surprised if they do.
    Well when the Tory lead in one poll is so massive not really. Whether you think that's an outlier or not, will I guess determine your views on that.

    I think it's an outlier - but I'm nearly always wrong so feel free to ignore!
    I’d imagine Opinium share and BMG share both wrong. When you add up the leave vote you’d expect Tories between 40 and 45.
    Fair point.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,271
    edited November 2019
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Forgot to mention I passed the Presidential motorcade this afternoon on the way to Chingford from Harlow, ahead of the NATO summit this week in London

    Obama used to fly around in an Osprey. Three of them did a practice run over Lord's during a county match back in 2016. I assume Trump needs a motorcade to get about the West End. I'm sure he'll be well received by commuters, xmas shoppers and couriers. Not to mention journalists hanging onto his every word.
    The US President’s travel plans are a complete nightmare to anyone who comes close to them. Meanwhile two or three cars and half a dozen police bikes (and some very funky traffic lights) can get our own PM from Downing St to Northolt in about 15 minutes.
    Boris would do it in 10 if Andrew Neil was behind him.
  • MaxPB said:

    I think Tories by 5-7% points on GE day.

    No, you're underestimating us, 9-11 points unless Bozza absolutely shits the bed next week.
    I don't rule out the latter half of your sentence since he wet his pants and ran away last week.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212
    edited November 2019

    I think Tories by 5-7% points on GE day.

    I think this is probably a fair prediction, could be anything from a slim Tory majority to a HP, which I kind of think is the likely outcome
    Yes, that's where I'm at.
    If the Tories broadly hold up in the Southwest of England and Northeast Scotland (SNP/LD threat) they don't need as many Labour seats as once thought.
    Aside from Richmond Park and St Albans there really isn't much else for the Lib Dems out there in SW London/remain SE. The swing needed for Guildford is over 15% and that's one of their easier seats.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,604
    Brom said:

    I think Tories by 5-7% points on GE day.

    43/37 for me still.
    Labour haven't been above 34% in any poll during the campaign so far.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Huge shift in prices in Portsmouth South. Lib Dems have collapsed from FAV to 20/1.

    Best prices:

    Lab 11/10
    Con 7/4
    LD 20/1

    The contrast between Deltapoll and the LD Survation poll for Portsmouth S is really quite stark and the difference in dates surely can't account for that much of it. I think this reinforces the suspicion that the LDs must have commissioned a lot more constituency polls with Survation, all with relatively small samples thus ensuring a lot of random sample variation, and then published only the results which they liked.
    You mean, the Lib Dems might have selectively published dodgy numbers to try to fool voters?

    THE VERY IDEA!!!! (clutches pearls and gasps in amazement)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721

    I doubt Raab is in that much trouble. If he was, then seats would be at risk of falling to the LDs all over the Remainder and commuter south east.

    FPT - if that report of the Patel/Raab fallout over Hong Kong is accurate then that's disgraceful behaviour by our foreign secretary. We should never kowtow to China.

    Why not? We kowtow to the USA.
    We don't, but China under Xi is a human rights toilet and the man is an evil authoritarian arsehole. He talks of grinding his enemies to powder and "disappears" opponents. He hacks and steals everything he can. Meanwhile he's buying up the world so it's his bitch.

    If I could boycott PRC goods I would but seemingly absolutely everything is made in China so it's hardly practical.
    So having ruled out Trade Deals with PRC and USA in the last few days, it's just as well that we have Tuvalu in the bag...
  • Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Forgot to mention I passed the Presidential motorcade this afternoon on the way to Chingford from Harlow, ahead of the NATO summit this week in London

    Obama used to fly around in an Osprey. Three of them did a practice run over Lord's during a county match back in 2016. I assume Trump needs a motorcade to get about the West End. I'm sure he'll be well received by commuters, xmas shoppers and couriers. Not to mention journalists hanging onto his every word.
    The US President’s travel plans are a complete nightmare to anyone who comes close to them. Meanwhile two or three cars and half a dozen police bikes (and some very funky traffic lights) can get our own PM from Downing St to Northolt in about 15 minutes.
    I was in Woodstock (Oxon) by chance when Trump dropped into Blenheim Palace. The security was so heavy it was hilarious. My dog did a pee against a tree, and it moved.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Andy_JS said:

    Average of tonight's 3 polls so far:
    Con 42.7%
    Lab 32.3%
    LD 13.0%
    BRX 3.3%
    Grn 3.3%
    In line with the national MRP figures, and the constituency polls are also in line with the constituency MRP figures.

    Without the Opinium poll which presumably inflates the Tory lead significantly, Tories on 41, Labour 33 which to me seems about right
    The worry for Labour has to be the CR poll which shows the earlier Labour surge receding.
  • Ave_it said:

    Andy_JS said:

    We have deltapoll and yougov to come confirmed plus I guess a random Sun or Mirror poll if theyve bothered

    Will those polls shift the current average tonight of 42.7/32.3/13.0/ very much? I'd be surprised if they do.
    Well when the Tory lead in one poll is so massive not really. Whether you think that's an outlier or not, will I guess determine your views on that.

    I think it's an outlier - but I'm nearly always wrong so feel free to ignore!
    CHB you know best! Which is why is could still be LAB overall majority!
    No chance.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    We have deltapoll and yougov to come confirmed plus I guess a random Sun or Mirror poll if theyve bothered

    Will those polls shift the current average tonight of 42.7/32.3/13.0/ very much? I'd be surprised if they do.
    Well when the Tory lead in one poll is so massive not really. Whether you think that's an outlier or not, will I guess determine your views on that.

    I think it's an outlier - but I'm nearly always wrong so feel free to ignore!
    The more polls you get, the more the effects of outliers are cancelled out. That's why it's good to get at least 5 polls on the same night.
    Fair point.
  • MaxPB said:



    As I've said for the last week during this Tory wobble, this isn't 2017. Our campaign is uninspiring, not complete crap. I'm fairly confident that we'll get a ~60 seat majority, nothing has really changed in the last couple of weeks to suggest that we won't. Labour have waved £139bn in cash to voters and it resulted in a ~2% swing. Their cupboard is empty and the momentum is with us now that they have run out of taxpayer money to bribe voters with.

    I think they’ll throw cancelling student debt at us yet. Good grief.

    MaxPB said:



    As I've said for the last week during this Tory wobble, this isn't 2017. Our campaign is uninspiring, not complete crap. I'm fairly confident that we'll get a ~60 seat majority, nothing has really changed in the last couple of weeks to suggest that we won't. Labour have waved £139bn in cash to voters and it resulted in a ~2% swing. Their cupboard is empty and the momentum is with us now that they have run out of taxpayer money to bribe voters with.

    I think they’ll throw cancelling student debt at us yet. Good grief.

    Agree expect more Labour bribes next week.

    Cancel student debt, nationalize Sky sports, two extra weeks holiday for everyone & a 4 day week.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,604

    Huge shift in prices in Portsmouth South. Lib Dems have collapsed from FAV to 20/1.

    Best prices:

    Lab 11/10
    Con 7/4
    LD 20/1

    It's clear that Labour are going to do very well in university seats like Portsmouth South, Canterbury, Leeds North West.
  • Has anyone compared turnout assumptions between the pollsters tonight? Could that be what is making the difference?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    We have deltapoll and yougov to come confirmed plus I guess a random Sun or Mirror poll if theyve bothered

    Will those polls shift the current average tonight of 42.7/32.3/13.0/ very much? I'd be surprised if they do.
    Well when the Tory lead in one poll is so massive not really. Whether you think that's an outlier or not, will I guess determine your views on that.

    I think it's an outlier - but I'm nearly always wrong so feel free to ignore!
    The more polls you get, the more the effects of outliers are cancelled out. That's why it's good to get at least 5 polls on the same night.
    If you believe the polls and their methodology. I dont believe any of them
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    I doubt Raab is in that much trouble. If he was, then seats would be at risk of falling to the LDs all over the Remainder and commuter south east.

    FPT - if that report of the Patel/Raab fallout over Hong Kong is accurate then that's disgraceful behaviour by our foreign secretary. We should never kowtow to China.

    If true, it speaks well of Patel. Perhaps a result of her own background. Her parents were a Ugandan Asians given refuge here by Heath, weren’t they?
    It does. I'm not sure she's even arguing for full BNO settlement rights either - just for the UK to be a temporary safe haven for those most at risk.

    Does her credit.
    And it would do Britain credit to make such a gesture.
    Even Trump, for God’s sake, has passed law obliging the US to check on whether the Chinese are standing by their promises to HK.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,604

    Andy_JS said:

    Average of tonight's 3 polls so far:
    Con 42.7%
    Lab 32.3%
    LD 13.0%
    BRX 3.3%
    Grn 3.3%
    In line with the national MRP figures, and the constituency polls are also in line with the constituency MRP figures.

    Without the Opinium poll which presumably inflates the Tory lead significantly, Tories on 41, Labour 33 which to me seems about right
    It may be counterintuitive, but you need to include all the outliers to get a better overall result, assuming there are outliers in both directions.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    I doubt Raab is in that much trouble. If he was, then seats would be at risk of falling to the LDs all over the Remainder and commuter south east.

    FPT - if that report of the Patel/Raab fallout over Hong Kong is accurate then that's disgraceful behaviour by our foreign secretary. We should never kowtow to China.

    Why not? We kowtow to the USA.
    No we don't, we have a 'special relationship'.

    Which means British lives and money are wasted in American wars and in return British politicians get to posture about the world pretending to be more important than they are.
    If the good voters of Esher and Walton do aim Raab out it will be a just outcome for his obsequious handling of the killing of that kid by the the US Diplomat's wife.
    If we get a strong leave majority, but as many ERG mutters gone as possible, it’ll be all my dreams come true.
    What's the total strength of the ERG - 30? Certainly no more than 50?

    Any Tory majority in excess of that and they'd be pretty much powerless anyway (though for what it's worth, having backed Johnson and voted for his Withdrawal Agreement, they're all onboard with his project anyway - there's not much political room for a volte face that might imperil the Leaver Government they've always wanted.)
    Nobody, but nobody knows what the agreed future relationship will be, if any if theWAIB is passed as we won’t have a clue what has been agreed until it’s done and dusted but you are voting to get brexit done giving Johnson a free hand to do what he can get away with. On the upside he might just be a so called Tory liberal and we have a close to EEA deal on the downside it will be wto on 31/12 next year. But yes let’s get brexit done so I can worry about the next series of love island
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    MaxPB said:



    As I've said for the last week during this Tory wobble, this isn't 2017. Our campaign is uninspiring, not complete crap. I'm fairly confident that we'll get a ~60 seat majority, nothing has really changed in the last couple of weeks to suggest that we won't. Labour have waved £139bn in cash to voters and it resulted in a ~2% swing. Their cupboard is empty and the momentum is with us now that they have run out of taxpayer money to bribe voters with.

    I think they’ll throw cancelling student debt at us yet. Good grief.

    MaxPB said:



    As I've said for the last week during this Tory wobble, this isn't 2017. Our campaign is uninspiring, not complete crap. I'm fairly confident that we'll get a ~60 seat majority, nothing has really changed in the last couple of weeks to suggest that we won't. Labour have waved £139bn in cash to voters and it resulted in a ~2% swing. Their cupboard is empty and the momentum is with us now that they have run out of taxpayer money to bribe voters with.

    I think they’ll throw cancelling student debt at us yet. Good grief.

    Agree expect more Labour bribes next week.

    Cancel student debt, nationalize Sky sports, two extra weeks holiday for everyone & a 4 day week.
    Except for the NHS ;)
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    Deltapoll is out.
  • Artist said:

    Deltapoll is out.

    Hit me.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Artist said:

    Deltapoll is out.

    Tease. ;)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    Andy_JS said:

    Huge shift in prices in Portsmouth South. Lib Dems have collapsed from FAV to 20/1.

    Best prices:

    Lab 11/10
    Con 7/4
    LD 20/1

    It's clear that Labour are going to do very well in university seats like Portsmouth South, Canterbury, Leeds North West.
    At one point, it looked like the Lib Dems would do well in such seats, but left wing Remainers are running back to Corbyn.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Shaky start with BMG but everything coming up Boris since
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028

    Artist said:

    Deltapoll is out.

    Hit me.
    Tories 45%, Labour 32%
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900

    Artist said:

    Deltapoll is out.

    Hit me.
    Greens heading for a majority.
  • Okay I think I was wrong
  • RobD said:
    NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Time to disable headless chicken panic mode?
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I doubt Raab is in that much trouble. If he was, then seats would be at risk of falling to the LDs all over the Remainder and commuter south east.

    FPT - if that report of the Patel/Raab fallout over Hong Kong is accurate then that's disgraceful behaviour by our foreign secretary. We should never kowtow to China.

    If true, it speaks well of Patel. Perhaps a result of her own background. Her parents were a Ugandan Asians given refuge here by Heath, weren’t they?
    It does. I'm not sure she's even arguing for full BNO settlement rights either - just for the UK to be a temporary safe haven for those most at risk.

    Does her credit.
    And it would do Britain credit to make such a gesture.
    Even Trump, for God’s sake, has passed law obliging the US to check on whether the Chinese are standing by their promises to HK.
    I know, I know.

    I'm deeply embarrassed and ashamed of our feet dragging on this. God knows what they think of us in Hong Kong. They were waving British flags a year ago. They've given up now and switched to stars and stripes.

    I consider us standing by Hong Kong a matter of national honour.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    RobD said:
    After that 6 point lead I was getting a little nervous, but 15 and 13 are much more like it!
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:



    As I've said for the last week during this Tory wobble, this isn't 2017. Our campaign is uninspiring, not complete crap. I'm fairly confident that we'll get a ~60 seat majority, nothing has really changed in the last couple of weeks to suggest that we won't. Labour have waved £139bn in cash to voters and it resulted in a ~2% swing. Their cupboard is empty and the momentum is with us now that they have run out of taxpayer money to bribe voters with.

    I think they’ll throw cancelling student at us yet. Good grief.

    That's not going to shift any additional votes in their favour, they already have the student and young graduate vote sewn up.

    If we came up with a credible policy it would really hurt Labour.
    You’re probably right. We should switch from loan to graduate tax - gets rid of the stigma of “debt”, and return fees to £3k. That would be sold as my Brexit dividend. Optics would be good all round.

    Nah, we can't use the phrase brexit dividend with younger voters, it's not credible. Just call if righting a wrong and owning up to our mistake on fees. Voters love a bit of humility and contrition from the governing party.
    I think you could - investing in future skills to unleash our global potential, etc. It’d go down well with Tory soft remainers and Lib Dem right. And as you say, anything to neutralise Labour in this cohort would be good.

    Legalise weed. Tax it. Promise to spend every extra penny raised on the NHS.

    I'd vote for it. And I haven't smoked dope since I was a student.

    But people are going to smoke it whether it's legal or not and it seems like a massive opportunity for the Tories. Particularly if it's tied to the NHS.

  • I guess that 6 pointer was the outlier then, what a spread!
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Innocent me. I am belatedly discovering that politics these days is not a case of "it's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game" but rather "if you KNOW you're right then you can lie and cheat to get your way".

    Anyway, what a hard choice it for us in Bedford. Tactically, to promote "remain" the wonderful Gina Miller's site suggests we should vote Labour, but we rather dislike Corbyn (*), especially for his indecision over antisemitism and Brexit itself. But I guess we'll have (chewing our lips) to give "remain" priority, as it is a singular event.

    (*) This is an understatement.
  • Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 45% (+2)
    LAB: 32% (+2)
    LDM: 15% (-1)
    BXP: 3% (=)

    VIa @DeltapollUK.
    Changes w/ 21-23 Nov.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited November 2019
    RobD said:
    Change in approval is interesting, and somewhat against the assumed tide.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    For anyone who would like a calming, beautiful and fascinating documentary to watch - instead of worrying about polls - check out The Lake District: A Wild Year on BBC4 and available on iPlayer.
    I really cannot wait to move there. With luck, by the time of my birthday in February ...... 🤞
  • Andy_JS said:

    Huge shift in prices in Portsmouth South. Lib Dems have collapsed from FAV to 20/1.

    Best prices:

    Lab 11/10
    Con 7/4
    LD 20/1

    It's clear that Labour are going to do very well in university seats like Portsmouth South, Canterbury, Leeds North West.
    It's hard to think of any town that isn't a 'university seat' any more. Bolton, Chester, Wrexham, Telford ... the list is endless and growing.
  • Foxy said:

    I doubt Raab is in that much trouble. If he was, then seats would be at risk of falling to the LDs all over the Remainder and commuter south east.

    FPT - if that report of the Patel/Raab fallout over Hong Kong is accurate then that's disgraceful behaviour by our foreign secretary. We should never kowtow to China.

    Why not? We kowtow to the USA.
    We don't, but China under Xi is a human rights toilet and the man is an evil authoritarian arsehole. He talks of grinding his enemies to powder and "disappears" opponents. He hacks and steals everything he can. Meanwhile he's buying up the world so it's his bitch.

    If I could boycott PRC goods I would but seemingly absolutely everything is made in China so it's hardly practical.
    So having ruled out Trade Deals with PRC and USA in the last few days, it's just as well that we have Tuvalu in the bag...
    I doubt it's worth getting one with either.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I doubt Raab is in that much trouble. If he was, then seats would be at risk of falling to the LDs all over the Remainder and commuter south east.

    FPT - if that report of the Patel/Raab fallout over Hong Kong is accurate then that's disgraceful behaviour by our foreign secretary. We should never kowtow to China.

    If true, it speaks well of Patel. Perhaps a result of her own background. Her parents were a Ugandan Asians given refuge here by Heath, weren’t they?
    It does. I'm not sure she's even arguing for full BNO settlement rights either - just for the UK to be a temporary safe haven for those most at risk.

    Does her credit.
    And it would do Britain credit to make such a gesture.
    Even Trump, for God’s sake, has passed law obliging the US to check on whether the Chinese are standing by their promises to HK.
    I know, I know.

    I'm deeply embarrassed and ashamed of our feet dragging on this. God knows what they think of us in Hong Kong. They were waving British flags a year ago. They've given up now and switched to stars and stripes.

    I consider us standing by Hong Kong a matter of national honour.
    Yes. Sometimes there really is just right and wrong.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    felix said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Average of tonight's 3 polls so far:
    Con 42.7%
    Lab 32.3%
    LD 13.0%
    BRX 3.3%
    Grn 3.3%
    In line with the national MRP figures, and the constituency polls are also in line with the constituency MRP figures.

    Without the Opinium poll which presumably inflates the Tory lead significantly, Tories on 41, Labour 33 which to me seems about right
    The worry for Labour has to be the CR poll which shows the earlier Labour surge receding.
    With the polls it's always best to look at ongoing trends rather than individual wobbles like that. And we certainly can't write off Labour yet.

    But the credibility of the MRP has improved in my eyes after that clutch of constituency surveys. The agreement is very striking, and I'm sure that clever people at Labour Towers will have noticed both that, and that the MRP also predicts them going down to the heaviest defeat since 1983 (with constituency equalisation to follow after the election as well, should the Tories win outright.)

    No wonder that Labour have been deploying troops Northwards. If the MRP is anything like accurate then the Labour Leavers really are defecting in some strength, and they're going to have their work cut out preventing Johnson from obtaining a majority.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    Sorry if I missed the answer, but I think the most important question about polling is whether we are going to get updates of YouGov's MRP model between now and election day.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    RobD said:
    Wow Boris back to net positive approval rating. +2%
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    I never doubted Boris!

    It means I won't have to move into nichomar's hacienda now 😊
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    Chris said:

    Sorry if I missed the answer, but I think the most important question about polling is whether we are going to get updates of YouGov's MRP model between now and election day.

    There is a second poll a few days before polling day
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    RobD said:
    Change in approval is interesting, and somewhat against the assumed tide.
    Yes, Jez hosing money in the direction of taxpayers was clearly going make people look more favourably towards him, that is now wearing off and people are remembering all of the crap Jez comes with and Bozza didn't shit the bed.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Andy_JS said:

    Brom said:

    I think Tories by 5-7% points on GE day.

    43/37 for me still.
    Labour haven't been above 34% in any poll during the campaign so far.
    Because they aren't imo

    42/34 could be final result
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Chris said:

    Sorry if I missed the answer, but I think the most important question about polling is whether we are going to get updates of YouGov's MRP model between now and election day.

    They didn't do it last time IIRC, and frankly if their projections are in reasonably close agreement with constituency surveys made well after they were published then there's probably no need for them to bother.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited November 2019

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I doubt Raab is in that much trouble. If he was, then seats would be at risk of falling to the LDs all over the Remainder and commuter south east.

    FPT - if that report of the Patel/Raab fallout over Hong Kong is accurate then that's disgraceful behaviour by our foreign secretary. We should never kowtow to China.

    If true, it speaks well of Patel. Perhaps a result of her own background. Her parents were a Ugandan Asians given refuge here by Heath, weren’t they?
    It does. I'm not sure she's even arguing for full BNO settlement rights either - just for the UK to be a temporary safe haven for those most at risk.

    Does her credit.
    And it would do Britain credit to make such a gesture.
    Even Trump, for God’s sake, has passed law obliging the US to check on whether the Chinese are standing by their promises to HK.
    I know, I know.

    I'm deeply embarrassed and ashamed of our feet dragging on this. God knows what they think of us in Hong Kong. They were waving British flags a year ago. They've given up now and switched to stars and stripes.

    I consider us standing by Hong Kong a matter of national honour.
    Since the handover Hong Kong is not a UK responsibility and realistically only the US can stand up to China and press for Hong Kong autonomy anyway, we can back them but not much more
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    Okay I think I was wrong

    Wrong to ramp? Add to wrong Embarrassing 😀
    If there was going to be key shift tonight the Comres killed that off hours ago.
    But cheer up batters, if this is going to go wrong for Conservatives it will be movement in the last 4 or 5 days
  • Well shit
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212
    Strong and stable
  • nunu2 said:

    RobD said:
    Wow Boris back to net positive approval rating. +2%
    It looks like women who have a problem with Boris are abstaining from voting Tory rather than going to Labour.
  • Those 18-24 numbers are concerning to me.

    It isn't right or healthy for the politics of the generations to be that heavily polarised.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    @FrancisUrquhart you can come out now :p
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721
    Toms said:

    Innocent me. I am belatedly discovering that politics these days is not a case of "it's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game" but rather "if you KNOW you're right then you can lie and cheat to get your way".

    Anyway, what a hard choice it for us in Bedford. Tactically, to promote "remain" the wonderful Gina Miller's site suggests we should vote Labour, but we rather dislike Corbyn (*), especially for his indecision over antisemitism and Brexit itself. But I guess we'll have (chewing our lips) to give "remain" priority, as it is a singular event.

    (*) This is an understatement.

    How robust has the local candidate been on anti-semitism? That may make a decision easier.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234
    edited November 2019
    RobD said:
    That is almost exactly what I'd expect the final result to be. 45-30-15 (give or take)
    I expect Boris will get a 100-150 seat majority, although he'll lose a couple of colleagues in deepest Remainia.
    Sadly, I do not expect him to use his large majority wisely.
  • Cyclefree said:

    For anyone who would like a calming, beautiful and fascinating documentary to watch - instead of worrying about polls - check out The Lake District: A Wild Year on BBC4 and available on iPlayer.
    I really cannot wait to move there. With luck, by the time of my birthday in February ...... 🤞

    I might do that.

    This election is far too stressful.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    Andy_JS said:

    Brom said:

    I think Tories by 5-7% points on GE day.

    43/37 for me still.
    Labour haven't been above 34% in any poll during the campaign so far.
    Because they aren't imo

    42/34 could be final result
    I'll take it. See you in the Championship next season!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kyf_100 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:



    As I've said for the last week during this Tory wobble, this isn't 2017. Our campaign is uninspiring, not complete crap. I'm fairly confident that we'll get a ~60 seat majority, nothing has really changed in the last couple of weeks to suggest that we won't. Labour have waved £139bn in cash to voters and it resulted in a ~2% swing. Their cupboard is empty and the momentum is with us now that they have run out of taxpayer money to bribe voters with.

    I think they’ll throw cancelling student at us yet. Good grief.

    That's not going to shift any additional votes in their favour, they already have the student and young graduate vote sewn up.

    If we came up with a credible policy it would really hurt Labour.
    You’re probably right. We should switch from loan to graduate tax - gets rid of the stigma of “debt”, and return fees to £3k. That would be sold as my Brexit dividend. Optics would be good all round.

    Nah, we can't use the phrase brexit dividend with younger voters, it's not credible. Just call if righting a wrong and owning up to our mistake on fees. Voters love a bit of humility and contrition from the governing party.
    I think you could - investing in future skills to unleash our global potential, etc. It’d go down well with Tory soft remainers and Lib Dem right. And as you say, anything to neutralise Labour in this cohort would be good.

    Legalise weed. Tax it. Promise to spend every extra penny raised on the NHS.

    I'd vote for it. And I haven't smoked dope since I was a student.

    But people are going to smoke it whether it's legal or not and it seems like a massive opportunity for the Tories. Particularly if it's tied to the NHS.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/11/27/canadas-cannabis-bubble-bursts-suppliers-post-double-digit-losses/

    Nobody buying the legal stuff anyway.
  • Those 18-24 numbers are concerning to me.

    It isn't right or healthy for the politics of the generations to be that heavily polarised.

    They get ignored by the Tories, why are you surprised?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Andy_JS said:

    Huge shift in prices in Portsmouth South. Lib Dems have collapsed from FAV to 20/1.

    Best prices:

    Lab 11/10
    Con 7/4
    LD 20/1

    It's clear that Labour are going to do very well in university seats like Portsmouth South, Canterbury, Leeds North West.
    It's hard to think of any town that isn't a 'university seat' any more. Bolton, Chester, Wrexham, Telford ... the list is endless and growing.
    Presumably only matters in cases where there are a large number of students registered to vote in the university seat itself, and availing themselves of the privilege.

    Also, if that's the case then they're not voting at home, which may simply have the effect of slightly increasing the age profile of the electorate everywhere else.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    RobD said:
    Tories getting 70% of the Leave vote still key
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721
    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:
    Change in approval is interesting, and somewhat against the assumed tide.
    Yes, Jez hosing money in the direction of taxpayers was clearly going make people look more favourably towards him, that is now wearing off and people are remembering all of the crap Jez comes with and Bozza didn't shit the bed.
    Except all week, Bozza has been shitting the bed...
  • Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Forgot to mention I passed the Presidential motorcade this afternoon on the way to Chingford from Harlow, ahead of the NATO summit this week in London

    Obama used to fly around in an Osprey. Three of them did a practice run over Lord's during a county match back in 2016. I assume Trump needs a motorcade to get about the West End. I'm sure he'll be well received by commuters, xmas shoppers and couriers. Not to mention journalists hanging onto his every word.
    The US President’s travel plans are a complete nightmare to anyone who comes close to them. Meanwhile two or three cars and half a dozen police bikes (and some very funky traffic lights) can get our own PM from Downing St to Northolt in about 15 minutes.
    Saw two helicopters flying in close formation above Holland Park earlier today.
  • Time to do my investigation into turnout assumptions to try and convince myself this is still good for Labour LOL!
  • Those 18-24 numbers are concerning to me.

    It isn't right or healthy for the politics of the generations to be that heavily polarised.

    No it is not to be honest and if Boris gets a majority he needs to look at student fees
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Those 18-24 numbers are concerning to me.

    It isn't right or healthy for the politics of the generations to be that heavily polarised.

    We don't have any retail policies for young people and we fucked them all over with £9k fees. Until we correct that and give them all a refund we won't be competitive with that age group.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    RobD said:

    Time to disable headless chicken panic mode?

    Yes. Shouldn’t expect anything surprising in the yougov if the others have strong and stable for the Tories.
    The crucial Elbow may even still be in double figures with not many yards to the line now.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Imo there is a close to zero chance Lab match their 2017 percentage. Could be as low as 30 as high as 37 I think.

    There is a 50% chance Tories match their 2017 percentage. Range 39% to 44% I believe.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    The rather better polls overall tonight for the Tories along with evidence of weakness for them in the south suggests, if it pans out that there could be a big re-alignment going on in British politics. If so the Brexit effect could prove to be quite profound in its impact.
  • MaxPB said:

    RobD said:
    Change in approval is interesting, and somewhat against the assumed tide.
    Yes, Jez hosing money in the direction of taxpayers was clearly going make people look more favourably towards him, that is now wearing off and people are remembering all of the crap Jez comes with and Bozza didn't shit the bed.
    And still plenty of people around that remember Socialism tried to destruction under Wilson & Callaghan.
  • Has anyone compared turnout assumptions between the pollsters tonight? Could that be what is making the difference?

    No. Have you?
  • IshmaelZ said:

    kyf_100 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:



    As I've said for the last week during this Tory wobble, this isn't 2017. Our campaign is uninspiring, not complete crap. I'm fairly confident that we'll get a ~60 seat majority, nothing has really changed in the last couple of weeks to suggest that we won't. Labour have waved £139bn in cash to voters and it resulted in a ~2% swing. Their cupboard is empty and the momentum is with us now that they have run out of taxpayer money to bribe voters with.

    I think they’ll throw cancelling student at us yet. Good grief.

    That's not going to shift any additional votes in their favour, they already have the student and young graduate vote sewn up.

    If we came up with a credible policy it would really hurt Labour.
    You’re probably right. We should switch from loan to graduate tax - gets rid of the stigma of “debt”, and return fees to £3k. That would be sold as my Brexit dividend. Optics would be good all round.

    Nah, we can't use the phrase brexit dividend with younger voters, it's not credible. Just call if righting a wrong and owning up to our mistake on fees. Voters love a bit of humility and contrition from the governing party.
    I think you could - investing in future skills to unleash our global potential, etc. It’d go down well with Tory soft remainers and Lib Dem right. And as you say, anything to neutralise Labour in this cohort would be good.

    Legalise weed. Tax it. Promise to spend every extra penny raised on the NHS.

    I'd vote for it. And I haven't smoked dope since I was a student.

    But people are going to smoke it whether it's legal or not and it seems like a massive opportunity for the Tories. Particularly if it's tied to the NHS.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/11/27/canadas-cannabis-bubble-bursts-suppliers-post-double-digit-losses/

    Nobody buying the legal stuff anyway.
    Same as tobacco in this country.
  • HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I doubt Raab is in that much trouble. If he was, then seats would be at risk of falling to the LDs all over the Remainder and commuter south east.

    FPT - if that report of the Patel/Raab fallout over Hong Kong is accurate then that's disgraceful behaviour by our foreign secretary. We should never kowtow to China.

    If true, it speaks well of Patel. Perhaps a result of her own background. Her parents were a Ugandan Asians given refuge here by Heath, weren’t they?
    It does. I'm not sure she's even arguing for full BNO settlement rights either - just for the UK to be a temporary safe haven for those most at risk.

    Does her credit.
    And it would do Britain credit to make such a gesture.
    Even Trump, for God’s sake, has passed law obliging the US to check on whether the Chinese are standing by their promises to HK.
    I know, I know.

    I'm deeply embarrassed and ashamed of our feet dragging on this. God knows what they think of us in Hong Kong. They were waving British flags a year ago. They've given up now and switched to stars and stripes.

    I consider us standing by Hong Kong a matter of national honour.
    Since the handover Hong Kong is not a UK responsibility and realistically only the US can stand up to China and press for Hong Kong autonomy anyway, we can back them but not much more
    No, we have a moral duty in the UK-Sino Agreement.

    And Britain is about standing up for the right thing wherever in the world no matter how big and powerful they are.
  • Has anyone compared turnout assumptions between the pollsters tonight? Could that be what is making the difference?

    No. Have you?
    That's what I am off to do now.

    Anyone got the tables?
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    MaxPB said:

    Those 18-24 numbers are concerning to me.

    It isn't right or healthy for the politics of the generations to be that heavily polarised.

    We don't have any retail policies for young people and we fucked them all over with £9k fees. Until we correct that and give them all a refund we won't be competitive with that age group.
    23% isn't bad. Labour policies are better for all 18-24 years olds - especially the £10 wage and free public transport, yet the tories still get 23%. I'd count that as a victory.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:
    Change in approval is interesting, and somewhat against the assumed tide.
    Yes, Jez hosing money in the direction of taxpayers was clearly going make people look more favourably towards him, that is now wearing off and people are remembering all of the crap Jez comes with and Bozza didn't shit the bed.
    Except all week, Bozza has been shitting the bed...
    Only on twitter, in the real world no one gave a fuck that he didn't do the Neil interview in the end.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Foxy said:

    Toms said:

    Innocent me. I am belatedly discovering that politics these days is not a case of "it's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game" but rather "if you KNOW you're right then you can lie and cheat to get your way".

    Anyway, what a hard choice it for us in Bedford. Tactically, to promote "remain" the wonderful Gina Miller's site suggests we should vote Labour, but we rather dislike Corbyn (*), especially for his indecision over antisemitism and Brexit itself. But I guess we'll have (chewing our lips) to give "remain" priority, as it is a singular event.

    (*) This is an understatement.

    How robust has the local candidate been on anti-semitism? That may make a decision easier.
    He's OK I think. It's worth checking carefully though.
  • Imo there is a close to zero chance Lab match their 2017 percentage. Could be as low as 30 as high as 37 I think.

    There is a 50% chance Tories match their 2017 percentage. Range 39% to 44% I believe.

    Feels right.

    I'd say 28% to 37% for Labour (big spread) and about 38% to 45% for Tory.

    We'd have to be very lucky to end up with a 1% lead!
  • Those 18-24 numbers are concerning to me.

    It isn't right or healthy for the politics of the generations to be that heavily polarised.

    Housing affordability and student debt.

    I'd like to see some the 18-24 group broken down into students/graduates and non-students/graduates.

    Also between home owners and renters.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    edited November 2019
    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:
    That is almost exactly what I'd expect the final result to be. 45-30-15 (give or take)
    You think 15 points is currently the best estimate of the Tory lead?

    Seems a bit perverse, but to each his own.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    camel said:

    MaxPB said:

    Those 18-24 numbers are concerning to me.

    It isn't right or healthy for the politics of the generations to be that heavily polarised.

    We don't have any retail policies for young people and we fucked them all over with £9k fees. Until we correct that and give them all a refund we won't be competitive with that age group.
    23% isn't bad. Labour policies are better for all 18-24 years olds - especially the £10 wage and free public transport, yet the tories still get 23%. I'd count that as a victory.
    The 23% is probably the % who didn't swallow the lie that you have to go to University in order to get a good job. They're the ones who left school and went to work straight-in or via apprenticeships and work for a living instead of whinging that they're not being paid £50k a year with a 2:2 degree in Basket-weaving?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited November 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I doubt Raab is in that much trouble. If he was, then seats would be at risk of falling to the LDs all over the Remainder and commuter south east.

    FPT - if that report of the Patel/Raab fallout over Hong Kong is accurate then that's disgraceful behaviour by our foreign secretary. We should never kowtow to China.

    If true, it speaks well of Patel. Perhaps a result of her own background. Her parents were a Ugandan Asians given refuge here by Heath, weren’t they?
    It does. I'm not sure she's even arguing for full BNO settlement rights either - just for the UK to be a temporary safe haven for those most at risk.

    Does her credit.
    And it would do Britain credit to make such a gesture.
    Even Trump, for God’s sake, has passed law obliging the US to check on whether the Chinese are standing by their promises to HK.
    I know, I know.

    I'm deeply embarrassed and ashamed of our feet dragging on this. God knows what they think of us in Hong Kong. They were waving British flags a year ago. They've given up now and switched to stars and stripes.

    I consider us standing by Hong Kong a matter of national honour.
    Since the handover Hong Kong is not a UK responsibility and realistically only the US can stand up to China and press for Hong Kong autonomy anyway, we can back them but not much more
    No, we have a moral duty in the UK-Sino Agreement.

    And Britain is about standing up for the right thing wherever in the world no matter how big and powerful they are.
    China has a bigger military than us and a bigger economy than us, as I said only the US can realistically stand up to China as the world's foremost economic and military power.

    We can support the US, little more
  • MaxPB said:

    Those 18-24 numbers are concerning to me.

    It isn't right or healthy for the politics of the generations to be that heavily polarised.

    We don't have any retail policies for young people and we fucked them all over with £9k fees. Until we correct that and give them all a refund we won't be competitive with that age group.
    Yes, and we need to show you can be patriotic and British and also have other identities too and be comfortable with that.

    We can't stop being Tory (nor should we) but need to show we're on their side and talk their language.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited November 2019
    Apparently these are all the polls updated:
    Delta +13
    Opinium +15
    BMG +6
    ComRes +10
    PanelBase +8
    Kantar +10
    ICM +7
    YouGov 11
  • egg said:

    RobD said:

    Time to disable headless chicken panic mode?

    Yes. Shouldn’t expect anything surprising in the yougov if the others have strong and stable for the Tories.
    The crucial Elbow may even still be in double figures with not many yards to the line now.
    Um, you'll have to find out tomorrow! Still YG and Survation to come!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291
    edited November 2019
    LOL! And I *still* think this weekend is Peak Labour... This is as good as it gets for Lab IMO.

  • Evening all.
    Tories have not changed strategy nor made any knee jerk reactions to Labour's free everything for everyone campaigning even though the polls appeared to be tightening in the last week. This suggests 2 things:
    1. Tory private polling looks good. This ties in with Labour changing strategy on the back of their own private polling.
    2. Most of the public know there is no such thing as a free lunch.
  • MaxPB said:

    Those 18-24 numbers are concerning to me.

    It isn't right or healthy for the politics of the generations to be that heavily polarised.

    We don't have any retail policies for young people and we fucked them all over with £9k fees. Until we correct that and give them all a refund we won't be competitive with that age group.
    Yes, and we need to show you can be patriotic and British and also have other identities too and be comfortable with that.

    We can't stop being Tory (nor should we) but need to show we're on their side and talk their language.
    I could not agree more
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Forgot to mention I passed the Presidential motorcade this afternoon on the way to Chingford from Harlow, ahead of the NATO summit this week in London

    Obama used to fly around in an Osprey. Three of them did a practice run over Lord's during a county match back in 2016. I assume Trump needs a motorcade to get about the West End. I'm sure he'll be well received by commuters, xmas shoppers and couriers. Not to mention journalists hanging onto his every word.
    The US President’s travel plans are a complete nightmare to anyone who comes close to them. Meanwhile two or three cars and half a dozen police bikes (and some very funky traffic lights) can get our own PM from Downing St to Northolt in about 15 minutes.
    Saw two helicopters flying in close formation above Holland Park earlier today.
    Yes getting ready for Trump's arrival
This discussion has been closed.