This will be the most "positive" poll for Labour - and that's bad
It's disastrous.
Labour will be panicking now.
I think we are approaching a crossover moment, where the Tories' nervousness despite big leads will dissipate, and Labour's confidence despite those big Tory leads will also start to dissipate.
It will be fascinating to see if the Tories can avoid hubris and easy mistakes, and if Labour respond proactively to these Tory leads rather than just believing they will go away.
There’s not many plot points left, when Labour could change the narrative. The Tory manifesto is one, PERHAPS the last debate (but I doubt these things ever really matter)
Labour have until next Thursday. By then we are two weeks away from the vote. If they haven’t made serious ground by that moment, it’s over. Five days and counting
This will be the most "positive" poll for Labour - and that's bad
It's disastrous.
Labour will be panicking now.
It matters what they will be panicking about. Will they be panicking about the the scale of the defeat, or will they be panicking about how to secure the succession to Corbyn?
The latter has been the main occupation at the very top of the party for some time I suspect.
Yes. So the manifesto in some respects could be understood as crafted for the Party membership, to act as a litmus test for leadership candidates in the aftermath of the election. This also means that they are unlikely to take corrective action that might stem the losses, as their focus is on the internal party battle.
This will be the most "positive" poll for Labour - and that's bad
It's disastrous.
Labour will be panicking now.
It matters what they will be panicking about. Will they be panicking about the the scale of the defeat, or will they be panicking about how to secure the succession to Corbyn?
In 2010 they were more interested in who would succeed brown rather than doing a deal with clegg so I think they will be positioning for the post corbyn leadership. Don’t be surprised when it’s even more left wing because Jeremy didn’t offer true socialism
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
They will pin it all on Jez and Brexit and carry on with the Marxism.
And the BBC. Don't forget the role of the BBC in stopping Jezza winning power.
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
If Labour end up in the 160 to 180 range how many Cooper Bennites would be left in the parliamentary party?
This will be the most "positive" poll for Labour - and that's bad
It's disastrous.
Labour will be panicking now.
I think we are approaching a crossover moment, where the Tories' nervousness despite big leads will dissipate, and Labour's confidence despite those big Tory leads will also start to dissipate.
It will be fascinating to see if the Tories can avoid hubris and easy mistakes, and if Labour respond proactively to these Tory leads rather than just believing they will go away.
There’s not many plot points left, when Labour could change the narrative. The Tory manifesto is one, PERHAPS the last debate (but I doubt these things ever really matter)
Labour have until next Thursday. By then we are two weeks away from the vote. If they haven’t made serious ground by that moment, it’s over. Five days and counting
Agreed. I mean given about 6 million postal votes will be cast overall, a couple million will probably have been cast by the end of this week.....
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
160? Labour could go below 150 with some of these polls.
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
You may be right, but I have this sinking feeling that there won't be a Labour civil war under such circumstances.
The membership will elect a Corbyn replacement without the historic baggage, and keep plodding along the same road. The "Cooper-Bennites" will go along with it because they're primarily interested in keeping their jobs, and they'll believe by that point (whether it ultimately turns out to be true or not) that any Labour MP who has survived the cull will have a guaranteed job for life. A bit like the Tory survivors of 1997.
Anybody who *really* couldn't live with the Far Left and its insanity, e.g. Chuka Umunna and Frank Field, has already departed. The MPs who are still in Labour are supporters and enablers of the revolution. Every last one of them.
Of course, if, at the end of this, the Tories scrape home with a narrow victory (or, God forbid, there's another Hung Parliament) the Corbynites will interpret this as the greatest triumph since 1945, and their man will most likely continue as leader until he decides he's got too old for the gig.
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
160? Labour could go below 150 with some of these polls.
But I get your point.
Utter cratering and sub 100, no way back. I'd settle for that. Nick Brown besieged in Newcastle East with blue geordies all around
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
160? Labour could go below 150 with some of these polls.
But I get your point.
Utter cratering and sub 100, no way back. I'd settle for that. Nick Brown besieged in Newcastle East with blue geordies all around
Newcastle council dusting off old emergency plans entitled 'how to deal with an influx of Jarrow Tories'
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
You may be right, but I have this sinking feeling that there won't be a Labour civil war under such circumstances.
The membership will elect a Corbyn replacement without the historic baggage, and keep plodding along the same road. The "Cooper-Bennites" will go along with it because they're primarily interested in keeping their jobs, and they'll believe by that point (whether it ultimately turns out to be true or not) that any Labour MP who has survived the cull will have a guaranteed job for life. A bit like the Tory survivors of 1997.
Anybody who *really* couldn't live with the Far Left and its insanity, e.g. Chuka Umunna and Frank Field, has already departed. The MPs who are still in Labour are supporters and enablers of the revolution. Every last one of them.
Of course, if, at the end of this, the Tories scrape home with a narrow victory (or, God forbid, there's another Hung Parliament) the Corbynites will interpret this as the greatest triumph since 1945, and their man will most likely continue as leader until he decides he's got too old for the gig.
Corbyn will go down in history as the only person who could make Johnson electable, well done labour your blind stupidity yet again fails those you claim to want to help.
Looks as though the Labour manifesto jumped the shark - a case where less would have been more, perhaps.
Ah well. Ironically have been busy playing Civ VI and see that was discussed upthread while you were waiting for the polls. Let's talk about that.
I think it was more a case of spending Buckaroo - the electorate generally are in favour of loosening the purse strings, but there was always going to be a point where they just stop believing the spending promises you pile on and kick back.
Another point that surprised is how poorly the Labour manifesto has been sold compared to 2017 when leaking it was a genius move, partly due to the fact that the big headline grabbers had already been pre-released or were there in 2017. As a result, when it was launched all the big headlines were about the eye-watering total figure rather than the nice stuff, and what the experts thought of it.
I do wonder if Labour got spooked by the Lib Dems' ratings and some crap headlines early on and rushed forward the headline grabbers (as well as trying to nobble the LDs) and was left with none of the choice cuts on manifesto day.
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
You may be right, but I have this sinking feeling that there won't be a Labour civil war under such circumstances.
The membership will elect a Corbyn replacement without the historic baggage, and keep plodding along the same road. The "Cooper-Bennites" will go along with it because they're primarily interested in keeping their jobs, and they'll believe by that point (whether it ultimately turns out to be true or not) that any Labour MP who has survived the cull will have a guaranteed job for life. A bit like the Tory survivors of 1997.
Anybody who *really* couldn't live with the Far Left and its insanity, e.g. Chuka Umunna and Frank Field, has already departed. The MPs who are still in Labour are supporters and enablers of the revolution. Every last one of them.
Of course, if, at the end of this, the Tories scrape home with a narrow victory (or, God forbid, there's another Hung Parliament) the Corbynites will interpret this as the greatest triumph since 1945, and their man will most likely continue as leader until he decides he's got too old for the gig.
Corbyn will go down in history as the only person who could make Johnson electable, well done labour your blind stupidity yet again fails those you claim to want to help.
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
You may be right, but I have this sinking feeling that there won't be a Labour civil war under such circumstances.
The membership will elect a Corbyn replacement without the historic baggage, and keep plodding along the same road. The "Cooper-Bennites" will go along with it because they're primarily interested in keeping their jobs, and they'll believe by that point (whether it ultimately turns out to be true or not) that any Labour MP who has survived the cull will have a guaranteed job for life. A bit like the Tory survivors of 1997.
Anybody who *really* couldn't live with the Far Left and its insanity, e.g. Chuka Umunna and Frank Field, has already departed. The MPs who are still in Labour are supporters and enablers of the revolution. Every last one of them.
Of course, if, at the end of this, the Tories scrape home with a narrow victory (or, God forbid, there's another Hung Parliament) the Corbynites will interpret this as the greatest triumph since 1945, and their man will most likely continue as leader until he decides he's got too old for the gig.
Corbyn will go down in history as the only person who could make Johnson electable, well done labour your blind stupidity yet again fails those you claim to want to help.
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
You may be right, but I have this sinking feeling that there won't be a Labour civil war under such circumstances.
The membership will elect a Corbyn replacement without the historic baggage, and keep plodding along the same road. The "Cooper-Bennites" will go along with it because they're primarily interested in keeping their jobs, and they'll believe by that point (whether it ultimately turns out to be true or not) that any Labour MP who has survived the cull will have a guaranteed job for life. A bit like the Tory survivors of 1997.
Anybody who *really* couldn't live with the Far Left and its insanity, e.g. Chuka Umunna and Frank Field, has already departed. The MPs who are still in Labour are supporters and enablers of the revolution. Every last one of them.
Of course, if, at the end of this, the Tories scrape home with a narrow victory (or, God forbid, there's another Hung Parliament) the Corbynites will interpret this as the greatest triumph since 1945, and their man will most likely continue as leader until he decides he's got too old for the gig.
There's just a chance that if Labour can find a left MP who: is able and willing to rid the party of antisemitism, looks forward to new ideas rather than back to the 1970s, and can bridge the cultural divide between metropolitan liberals and small town workers - that there is bright future for the Labour Left.
Any one of those three would be a massive improvement on Corbyn. It would also help if they could count, but walk before you run and all that.
Looks as though the Labour manifesto jumped the shark - a case where less would have been more, perhaps.
Ah well. Ironically have been busy playing Civ VI and see that was discussed upthread while you were waiting for the polls. Let's talk about that.
Why not
Difficulty level and Civ you played?
I don't play particularly high difficulty but currently playing with a mod which adds various Game of Thrones leaders
Also I prefer HUGE maps
Emperor. I have a friend in California (works for Google) and we generally spend Saturday evenings on that. He's a bit better than me but I win sometimes. He generally goes for steady development, while I usually overrun my non-player neighbours. We've been trying games with restricted victory conditions for a change - only religious wins are a bit boring (too many slow set-piece duels between apostles), and diplomatic wins are a bit random (whoever guesses how the World Congress votes will go and jumps on the bandwagon), but the cultural win is interesting and I'm not yet really good at that yet.
We used to play Stellaris a lot (and Hearts of Iron before that) and have been dabbling in Endless Legends - I really like the Endless series, but I'm finding Legends hard even at Normal level.
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
You may be right, but I have this sinking feeling that there won't be a Labour civil war under such circumstances.
The membership will elect a Corbyn replacement without the historic baggage, and keep plodding along the same road. The "Cooper-Bennites" will go along with it because they're primarily interested in keeping their jobs, and they'll believe by that point (whether it ultimately turns out to be true or not) that any Labour MP who has survived the cull will have a guaranteed job for life. A bit like the Tory survivors of 1997.
Anybody who *really* couldn't live with the Far Left and its insanity, e.g. Chuka Umunna and Frank Field, has already departed. The MPs who are still in Labour are supporters and enablers of the revolution. Every last one of them.
Of course, if, at the end of this, the Tories scrape home with a narrow victory (or, God forbid, there's another Hung Parliament) the Corbynites will interpret this as the greatest triumph since 1945, and their man will most likely continue as leader until he decides he's got too old for the gig.
Corbyn will go down in history as the only person who could make Johnson electable, well done labour your blind stupidity yet again fails those you claim to want to help.
When will the penny drop that it isn’t Corbyn - it’s the Marxism - Britain is not a far left country.
Looks as though the Labour manifesto jumped the shark - a case where less would have been more, perhaps.
Ah well. Ironically have been busy playing Civ VI and see that was discussed upthread while you were waiting for the polls. Let's talk about that.
I think it was more a case of spending Buckaroo - the electorate generally are in favour of loosening the purse strings, but there was always going to be a point where they just stop believing the spending promises you pile on and kick back.
Another point that surprised is how poorly the Labour manifesto has been sold compared to 2017 when leaking it was a genius move, partly due to the fact that the big headline grabbers had already been pre-released or were there in 2017. As a result, when it was launched all the big headlines were about the eye-watering total figure rather than the nice stuff, and what the experts thought of it.
I do wonder if Labour got spooked by the Lib Dems' ratings and some crap headlines early on and rushed forward the headline grabbers (as well as trying to nobble the LDs) and was left with none of the choice cuts on manifesto day.
I think it was the “popular” free broadband that was the killer. Obviously the tax and spending stuff has scared lots of Tory remainers back to Johnson, but they probably priced that in to some extent. And was mostly affecting con/ld seats anyway. They were hoping to offset that against bringing back a whole load of poorer working class leavers back towards the party. But I think most people after a bit of consideration just ultimately couldn’t help but laugh at the absurdity of the broadband policy. That’s what people mean when they say that Corbyn thinks they’re “idiots”. There are lots of ways expansion of/investment in broadband could have been made to sound radical, yet plausible. But they just went way too far.
Do they not realise that at a certain point this largesse begins to have a negative effect?
It’s like a spurned husband making promises to get his wife back. When he promises to clean the kitchen, and cut down on the drinking, she gives him a listen. She’s interested.
When he then promises to get a job as a brain surgeon, buy her a Maserati, and take her on holiday to the Maldives for six months, she looks at him and she despises him as a liar. And worse: a liar who takes her for a fool.
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
They will pin it all on Jez and Brexit and carry on with the Marxism.
And the BBC. Don't forget the role of the BBC in stopping Jezza winning power.
The Marxist blame list:
***NOT US!*** The Jews The BBC The Liberal Democrats Nicola Sturgeon The Jews The Jews Tories Racist Tories Fascist Racist Tories Cheating Tories (dropping the Dementia Tax, the bastards!) Rachel Riley (a Tory Jew) Tory Jews Jewish Tories Rupert Murdoch Thick Brexity Old People MI5 ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY NOT ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR JEREMY. The Jews The Jews The Weather Profiteering American Social Media Billionaires (and Broadband Providers) Billionaire Tory Donors The Banks Jewish Banks The Jews The Jews Biased MSM The Jewish Chronicle Maureen Lipman (a Tory Jew) The Jews The Jews Mossad Agents Splitters! AND NOT JOHN EITHER. OR DIANE. OR SEUMAS. OR LEN. The Jews Racist Northerners Nigel Farage (a Tory racist) The Jews The Jews The Queen (a thick Brexity old person, and probably Jewish) The International Jewish Capitalist Conspiracy Ignorant English Nationalist Racist Voter Scum and THE JEWS!
Looks as though the Labour manifesto jumped the shark - a case where less would have been more, perhaps.
Ah well. Ironically have been busy playing Civ VI and see that was discussed upthread while you were waiting for the polls. Let's talk about that.
I think it was more a case of spending Buckaroo - the electorate generally are in favour of loosening the purse strings, but there was always going to be a point where they just stop believing the spending promises you pile on and kick back.
Another point that surprised is how poorly the Labour manifesto has been sold compared to 2017 when leaking it was a genius move, partly due to the fact that the big headline grabbers had already been pre-released or were there in 2017. As a result, when it was launched all the big headlines were about the eye-watering total figure rather than the nice stuff, and what the experts thought of it.
I do wonder if Labour got spooked by the Lib Dems' ratings and some crap headlines early on and rushed forward the headline grabbers (as well as trying to nobble the LDs) and was left with none of the choice cuts on manifesto day.
I think it was the “popular” free broadband that was the killer. Obviously the tax and spending stuff has scared lots of Tory remainers back to Johnson, but they probably priced that in to some extent. And was mostly affecting con/ld seats anyway. They were hoping to offset that against bringing back a whole load of poorer working class leavers back towards the party. But I think most people after a bit of consideration just ultimately couldn’t help but laugh at the absurdity of the broadband policy. That’s what people mean when they say that Corbyn thinks they’re “idiots”. There are lots of ways expansion of/investment in broadband could have been made to sound radical, yet plausible. But they just went way too far.
Yet treating people like idiots is still working for Bozo
Desperate pandering to the WASPI crowd is not a great sign. Even the paper is not convinced, describing them as those 'who believe' etc etc, rather than just saying they have been unfairly left out of pocket.
Looks as though the Labour manifesto jumped the shark - a case where less would have been more, perhaps.
Ah well. Ironically have been busy playing Civ VI and see that was discussed upthread while you were waiting for the polls. Let's talk about that.
Why not
Difficulty level and Civ you played?
I don't play particularly high difficulty but currently playing with a mod which adds various Game of Thrones leaders
Also I prefer HUGE maps
Emperor. I have a friend in California (works for Google) and we generally spend Saturday evenings on that. He's a bit better than me but I win sometimes. He generally goes for steady development, while I usually overrun my non-player neighbours. We've been trying games with restricted victory conditions for a change - only religious wins are a bit boring (too many slow set-piece duels between apostles), and diplomatic wins are a bit random (whoever guesses how the World Congress votes will go and jumps on the bandwagon), but the cultural win is interesting and I'm not yet really good at that yet.
We used to play Stellaris a lot (and Hearts of Iron before that) and have been dabbling in Endless Legends - I really like the Endless series, but I'm finding Legends hard even at Normal level.
Looks as though the Labour manifesto jumped the shark - a case where less would have been more, perhaps.
Ah well. Ironically have been busy playing Civ VI and see that was discussed upthread while you were waiting for the polls. Let's talk about that.
I think it was more a case of spending Buckaroo - the electorate generally are in favour of loosening the purse strings, but there was always going to be a point where they just stop believing the spending promises you pile on and kick back.
Another point that surprised is how poorly the Labour manifesto has been sold compared to 2017 when leaking it was a genius move, partly due to the fact that the big headline grabbers had already been pre-released or were there in 2017. As a result, when it was launched all the big headlines were about the eye-watering total figure rather than the nice stuff, and what the experts thought of it.
I do wonder if Labour got spooked by the Lib Dems' ratings and some crap headlines early on and rushed forward the headline grabbers (as well as trying to nobble the LDs) and was left with none of the choice cuts on manifesto day.
I think it was the “popular” free broadband that was the killer. Obviously the tax and spending stuff has scared lots of Tory remainers back to Johnson, but they probably priced that in to some extent. And was mostly affecting con/ld seats anyway. They were hoping to offset that against bringing back a whole load of poorer working class leavers back towards the party. But I think most people after a bit of consideration just ultimately couldn’t help but laugh at the absurdity of the broadband policy. That’s what people mean when they say that Corbyn thinks they’re “idiots”. There are lots of ways expansion of/investment in broadband could have been made to sound radical, yet plausible. But they just went way too far.
I really thought it would be fairly neutral for most - nice, but whatever -and a way to pitch to the young, but of all the promises thrown around, and all the events of the campaign to date, that's the only one someone has raised with me in an unprompted discussion about the GE, and not in a positive way. I was quite surprised.
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
They will pin it all on Jez and Brexit and carry on with the Marxism.
And the BBC. Don't forget the role of the BBC in stopping Jezza winning power.
The Marxist blame list:
***NOT US!*** The Jews The BBC The Liberal Democrats Nicola Sturgeon The Jews The Jews Tories Racist Tories Fascist Racist Tories Cheating Tories (dropping the Dementia Tax, the bastards!) Rachel Riley (a Tory Jew) Tory Jews Jewish Tories Rupert Murdoch Thick Brexity Old People MI5 ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY NOT ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR JEREMY. The Jews The Jews The Weather Profiteering American Social Media Billionaires (and Broadband Providers) Billionaire Tory Donors The Banks Jewish Banks The Jews The Jews Biased MSM The Jewish Chronicle Maureen Lipman (a Tory Jew) The Jews The Jews Mossad Agents Splitters! AND NOT JOHN EITHER. OR DIANE. OR SEUMAS. OR LEN. The Jews Racist Northerners Nigel Farage (a Tory racist) The Jews The Jews The Queen (a thick Brexity old person, and probably Jewish) The International Jewish Capitalist Conspiracy Ignorant English Nationalist Racist Voter Scum and THE JEWS!
Looks as though the Labour manifesto jumped the shark - a case where less would have been more, perhaps.
Ah well. Ironically have been busy playing Civ VI and see that was discussed upthread while you were waiting for the polls. Let's talk about that.
I think it was more a case of spending Buckaroo - the electorate generally are in favour of loosening the purse strings, but there was always going to be a point where they just stop believing the spending promises you pile on and kick back.
Another point that surprised is how poorly the Labour manifesto has been sold compared to 2017 when leaking it was a genius move, partly due to the fact that the big headline grabbers had already been pre-released or were there in 2017. As a result, when it was launched all the big headlines were about the eye-watering total figure rather than the nice stuff, and what the experts thought of it.
I do wonder if Labour got spooked by the Lib Dems' ratings and some crap headlines early on and rushed forward the headline grabbers (as well as trying to nobble the LDs) and was left with none of the choice cuts on manifesto day.
I think it was the “popular” free broadband that was the killer. Obviously the tax and spending stuff has scared lots of Tory remainers back to Johnson, but they probably priced that in to some extent. And was mostly affecting con/ld seats anyway. They were hoping to offset that against bringing back a whole load of poorer working class leavers back towards the party. But I think most people after a bit of consideration just ultimately couldn’t help but laugh at the absurdity of the broadband policy. That’s what people mean when they say that Corbyn thinks they’re “idiots”. There are lots of ways expansion of/investment in broadband could have been made to sound radical, yet plausible. But they just went way too far.
Yet treating people like idiots is still working for Bozo
Not necessarily. Why do you think he struggles so much on the issue of veracity?
Voters, generally speaking, appear to know that Johnson is a liar. It's just that a great many of them still think he's better than the alternative.
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
They will pin it all on Jez and Brexit and carry on with the Marxism.
And the BBC. Don't forget the role of the BBC in stopping Jezza winning power.
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
They will pin it all on Jez and Brexit and carry on with the Marxism.
And the BBC. Don't forget the role of the BBC in stopping Jezza winning power.
The Marxist blame list:
***NOT US!*** The Jews The BBC The Liberal Democrats Nicola Sturgeon The Jews The Jews Tories Racist Tories Fascist Racist Tories Cheating Tories (dropping the Dementia Tax, the bastards!) Rachel Riley (a Tory Jew) Tory Jews Jewish Tories Rupert Murdoch Thick Brexity Old People MI5 ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY NOT ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR JEREMY. The Jews The Jews The Weather Profiteering American Social Media Billionaires (and Broadband Providers) Billionaire Tory Donors The Banks Jewish Banks The Jews The Jews Biased MSM The Jewish Chronicle Maureen Lipman (a Tory Jew) The Jews The Jews Mossad Agents Splitters! AND NOT JOHN EITHER. OR DIANE. OR SEUMAS. OR LEN. The Jews Racist Northerners Nigel Farage (a Tory racist) The Jews The Jews The Queen (a thick Brexity old person, and probably Jewish) The International Jewish Capitalist Conspiracy Ignorant English Nationalist Racist Voter Scum and THE JEWS!
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
They will pin it all on Jez and Brexit and carry on with the Marxism.
And the BBC. Don't forget the role of the BBC in stopping Jezza winning power.
The Marxist blame list:
***NOT US!*** The Jews The BBC The Liberal Democrats Nicola Sturgeon The Jews The Jews Tories Racist Tories Fascist Racist Tories Cheating Tories (dropping the Dementia Tax, the bastards!) Rachel Riley (a Tory Jew) Tory Jews Jewish Tories Rupert Murdoch Thick Brexity Old People MI5 ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY NOT ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR JEREMY. The Jews The Jews The Weather Profiteering American Social Media Billionaires (and Broadband Providers) Billionaire Tory Donors The Banks Jewish Banks The Jews The Jews Biased MSM The Jewish Chronicle Maureen Lipman (a Tory Jew) The Jews The Jews Mossad Agents Splitters! AND NOT JOHN EITHER. OR DIANE. OR SEUMAS. OR LEN. The Jews Racist Northerners Nigel Farage (a Tory racist) The Jews The Jews The Queen (a thick Brexity old person, and probably Jewish) The International Jewish Capitalist Conspiracy Ignorant English Nationalist Racist Voter Scum and THE JEWS!
Looks as though the Labour manifesto jumped the shark - a case where less would have been more, perhaps.
Ah well. Ironically have been busy playing Civ VI and see that was discussed upthread while you were waiting for the polls. Let's talk about that.
I think it was more a case of spending Buckaroo - the electorate generally are in favour of loosening the purse strings, but there was always going to be a point where they just stop believing the spending promises you pile on and kick back.
Another point that surprised is how poorly the Labour manifesto has been sold compared to 2017 when leaking it was a genius move, partly due to the fact that the big headline grabbers had already been pre-released or were there in 2017. As a result, when it was launched all the big headlines were about the eye-watering total figure rather than the nice stuff, and what the experts thought of it.
I do wonder if Labour got spooked by the Lib Dems' ratings and some crap headlines early on and rushed forward the headline grabbers (as well as trying to nobble the LDs) and was left with none of the choice cuts on manifesto day.
I think it w
Yet treating people like idiots is still working for Bozo
Not necessarily. Why do you think he struggles so much on the issue of veracity?
Voters, generally speaking, appear to know that Johnson is a liar. It's just that a great many of them still think he's better than the alternative.
I'd speculate that a factor in it at least is that there are lots of people who think Johnson is unscrupulous and untrustworthy, and even more than many politicians is only in it for himself without any true ideology or vision. This can, counter intuitively, be spun as a positive by people looking for a reason not to vote Corbyn, because people can reassure themselves that Johnson probably won't do various really bad things that ideologues like Rees-Mogg or Baker would do, because he will see no further advantage in doing so, after having won.
Whereas Corbyn genuinely has political vision. And that's good if you like the vision, but if you do not, you cannot have much hope he will not do it if he wins.
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
They will pin it all on Jez and Brexit and carry on with the Marxism.
And the BBC. Don't forget the role of the BBC in stopping Jezza winning power.
The Marxist blame list:
***NOT US!*** The Jews The BBC The Liberal Democrats Nicola Sturgeon The Jews The Jews Tories Racist Tories Fascist Racist Tories Cheating Tories (dropping the Dementia Tax, the bastards!) Rachel Riley (a Tory Jew) Tory Jews Jewish Tories Rupert Murdoch Thick Brexity Old People MI5 ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY NOT ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR JEREMY. The Jews The Jews The Weather Profiteering American Social Media Billionaires (and Broadband Providers) Billionaire Tory Donors The Banks Jewish Banks The Jews The Jews Biased MSM The Jewish Chronicle Maureen Lipman (a Tory Jew) The Jews The Jews Mossad Agents Splitters! AND NOT JOHN EITHER. OR DIANE. OR SEUMAS. OR LEN. The Jews Racist Northerners Nigel Farage (a Tory racist) The Jews The Jews The Queen (a thick Brexity old person, and probably Jewish) The International Jewish Capitalist Conspiracy Ignorant English Nationalist Racist Voter Scum and THE JEWS!
Have I missed anyone out?
lol. Yes you missed the ‘racist Jewish Tory pollsters’, trying to stir up apathy and defeatism in Labour ranks.
Seriously. Go on Twitter. It’s full of mad Corbynite with deliciously insane conspiracy theories about the polling companies
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
They will pin it all on Jez and Brexit and carry on with the Marxism.
And the BBC. Don't forget the role of the BBC in stopping Jezza winning power.
The Marxist blame list:
***NOT US!*** The Jews The BBC The Liberal Democrats Nicola Sturgeon The Jews The Jews Tories Racist Tories Fascist Racist Tories Cheating Tories (dropping the Dementia Tax, the bastards!) Rachel Riley (a Tory Jew) Tory Jews Jewish Tories Rupert Murdoch Thick Brexity Old People MI5 ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY NOT ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR JEREMY. The Jews The Jews The Weather Profiteering American Social Media Billionaires (and Broadband Providers) Billionaire Tory Donors The Banks Jewish Banks The Jews The Jews Biased MSM The Jewish Chronicle Maureen Lipman (a Tory Jew) The Jews The Jews Mossad Agents Splitters! AND NOT JOHN EITHER. OR DIANE. OR SEUMAS. OR LEN. The Jews Racist Northerners Nigel Farage (a Tory racist) The Jews The Jews The Queen (a thick Brexity old person, and probably Jewish) The International Jewish Capitalist Conspiracy Ignorant English Nationalist Racist Voter Scum and THE JEWS!
A survey of thousands of left-wing social media accounts by Hope Not Hate found that nearly a fifth promote or engage in antisemitism.
The anti-fascist group’s “State of Hate 2019” report into racism — to be published on Monday — analysed 27,000 Twitter profiles that follow a selection of UK-based left-wing accounts which “regularly spread antisemitic ideas”.
Of the 27,000 accounts, the charity found up to 5,000 of them — just under 19 per cent — have expressed antisemitic ideas twice or more on social media.
Some of the accounts posted over 100 tweets that could be clearly identified as antisemitic, featuring tropes such as Jewish control of the media or banking system.
Looks as though the Labour manifesto jumped the shark - a case where less would have been more, perhaps.
Ah well. Ironically have been busy playing Civ VI and see that was discussed upthread while you were waiting for the polls. Let's talk about that.
I think it was more a case of spending Buckaroo - the electorate generally are in favour of loosening the purse strings, but there was always going to be a point where they just stop believing the spending promises you pile on and kick back.
Another point that surprised is how poorly the Labour manifesto has been sold compared to 2017 when leaking it was a genius move, partly due to the fact that the big headline grabbers had already been pre-released or were there in 2017. As a result, when it was launched all the big headlines were about the eye-watering total figure rather than the nice stuff, and what the experts thought of it.
I do wonder if Labour got spooked by the Lib Dems' ratings and some crap headlines early on and rushed forward the headline grabbers (as well as trying to nobble the LDs) and was left with none of the choice cuts on manifesto day.
I think it w
Yet treating people like idiots is still working for Bozo
Not necessarily. Why do you think he struggles so much on the issue of veracity?
Voters, generally speaking, appear to know that Johnson is a liar. It's just that a great many of them still think he's better than the alternative.
I'd speculate that a factor in it at least is that there are lots of people who think Johnson is unscrupulous and untrustworthy, and even more than many politicians is only in it for himself without any true ideology or vision. This can, counter intuitively, be spun as a positive by people looking for a reason not to vote Corbyn, because people can reassure themselves that Johnson probably won't do various really bad things that ideologues like Rees-Mogg or Baker would do, because he will see no further advantage in doing so, after having won.
Whereas Corbyn genuinely has political vision. And that's good if you like the vision, but if you do not, you cannot have much hope he will not do it if he wins.
What Corbyn fails to do in his mind is separate "the poor" (ie. The literal poor) and the working class, who may not be "rich" but a) don't like being called poor and b) are proud, self-reliant and aspirational.
Looks as though the Labour manifesto jumped the shark - a case where less would have been more, perhaps.
Ah well. Ironically have been busy playing Civ VI and see that was discussed upthread while you were waiting for the polls. Let's talk about that.
I think it was more a case of spending Buckaroo - the electorate generally are in favour of loosening the purse strings, but there was always going to be a point where they just stop believing the spending promises you pile on and kick back.
Another point that surprised is how poorly the Labour manifesto has been sold compared to 2017 when leaking it was a genius move, partly due to the fact that the big headline grabbers had already been pre-released or were there in 2017. As a result, when it was launched all the big headlines were about the eye-watering total figure rather than the nice stuff, and what the experts thought of it.
I do wonder if Labour got spooked by the Lib Dems' ratings and some crap headlines early on and rushed forward the headline grabbers (as well as trying to nobble the LDs) and was left with none of the choice cuts on manifesto day.
I think it was the “popular” free broadband that was the killer. Obviously the tax and spending stuff has scared lots of Tory remainers back to Johnson, but they probably priced that in to some extent. And was mostly affecting con/ld seats anyway. They were hoping to offset that against bringing back a whole load of poorer working class leavers back towards the party. But I think most people after a bit of consideration just ultimately couldn’t help but laugh at the absurdity of the broadband policy. That’s what people mean when they say that Corbyn thinks they’re “idiots”. There are lots of ways expansion of/investment in broadband could have been made to sound radical, yet plausible. But they just went way too far.
I really thought it would be fairly neutral for most - nice, but whatever -and a way to pitch to the young, but of all the promises thrown around, and all the events of the campaign to date, that's the only one someone has raised with me in an unprompted discussion about the GE, and not in a positive way. I was quite surprised.
I think people recognise there are some real problems with the country that will take money to fix - NHS, housing, social care, etc - and there are some freebies that they'd quite like that they can justify on a fairness point of view - so prescription charges, say.
But while the country might be willing to pay taxes for other people's hip replacement or diabetes medication, they don't see why it is a priority for the country to provide free broadband - which poor people who cannot afford a computer aren't going to be able to benefit from anyway.
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
They will pin it all on Jez and Brexit and carry on with the Marxism.
And the BBC. Don't forget the role of the BBC in stopping Jezza winning power.
The Marxist blame list:
***NOT US!*** The Jews The BBC The Liberal Democrats Nicola Sturgeon The Jews The Jews Tories Racist Tories Fascist Racist Tories Cheating Tories (dropping the Dementia Tax, the bastards!) Rachel Riley (a Tory Jew) Tory Jews Jewish Tories Rupert Murdoch Thick Brexity Old People MI5 ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY NOT ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR JEREMY. The Jews The Jews The Weather Profiteering American Social Media Billionaires (and Broadband Providers) Billionaire Tory Donors The Banks Jewish Banks The Jews The Jews Biased MSM The Jewish Chronicle Maureen Lipman (a Tory Jew) The Jews The Jews Mossad Agents Splitters! AND NOT JOHN EITHER. OR DIANE. OR SEUMAS. OR LEN. The Jews Racist Northerners Nigel Farage (a Tory racist) The Jews The Jews The Queen (a thick Brexity old person, and probably Jewish) The International Jewish Capitalist Conspiracy Ignorant English Nationalist Racist Voter Scum and THE JEWS!
Have I missed anyone out?
lol. Yes you missed the ‘racist Jewish Tory pollsters’, trying to stir up apathy and defeatism in Labour ranks.
Seriously. Go on Twitter. It’s full of mad Corbynite with deliciously insane conspiracy theories about the polling companies
I'm reading one from a guy who seriously wonders why no polls with labour leads are published. He presumably thinks twitter polls are proper polls!
And this from one of the many Sky labour cheerleaders
Every tweet from Goodall is pro labour, as are his connections
And Sky are meant to be impartial. He is as bad if not worse than Faisal Islam
Yes, if he genuinely thinks this week has mostly gone well for Labour then he's very, very blinkered. Otherwise, he's just spinning on behalf of his former employers.
Corbyns neutral position is making the best of a bad situation, to come out fully for Remain now would be even worse .
Corbyn knows he'll lose seats in the North if he comes out unequivocally for Remain, whereas the party's safe seats in London, Manchester, Birmingham, etc, will vote Labour come what may. So it makes sense.
But will those seats vote for the Tories, I bloody hope not but I am starting to fear they will
I doubt Corbyn personally thinks they are dickheads or idiots, though there's definitely some who think that.
But see the reference to ‘a communist’. They use that word. Working class people in the north think jezza is a communist, and they’re right. And they won’t vote for a commie.
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
They will pin it all on Jez and Brexit and carry on with the Marxism.
And the BBC. Don't forget the role of the BBC in stopping Jezza winning power.
The Marxist blame list:
***NOT US!*** The Jews The BBC The Liberal Democrats Nicola Sturgeon The Jews The Jews Tories Racist Tories Fascist Racist Tories Cheating Tories (dropping the Dementia Tax, the bastards!) Rachel Riley (a Tory Jew) Tory Jews Jewish Tories Rupert Murdoch Thick Brexity Old People MI5 ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY NOT ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR JEREMY. The Jews The Jews The Weather Profiteering American Social Media Billionaires (and Broadband Providers) Billionaire Tory Donors The Banks Jewish Banks The Jews The Jews Biased MSM The Jewish Chronicle Maureen Lipman (a Tory Jew) The Jews The Jews Mossad Agents Splitters! AND NOT JOHN EITHER. OR DIANE. OR SEUMAS. OR LEN. The Jews Racist Northerners Nigel Farage (a Tory racist) The Jews The Jews The Queen (a thick Brexity old person, and probably Jewish) The International Jewish Capitalist Conspiracy Ignorant English Nationalist Racist Voter Scum and THE JEWS!
Looks as though the Labour manifesto jumped the shark - a case where less would have been more, perhaps.
Ah well. Ironically have been busy playing Civ VI and see that was discussed upthread while you were waiting for the polls. Let's talk about that.
Why not
Difficulty level and Civ you played?
I don't play particularly high difficulty but currently playing with a mod which adds various Game of Thrones leaders
Also I prefer HUGE maps
Emperor. I have a friend in California (works for Google) and we generally spend Saturday evenings on that. He's a bit better than me but I win sometimes. He generally goes for steady development, while I usually overrun my non-player neighbours. We've been trying games with restricted victory conditions for a change - only religious wins are a bit boring (too many slow set-piece duels between apostles), and diplomatic wins are a bit random (whoever guesses how the World Congress votes will go and jumps on the bandwagon), but the cultural win is interesting and I'm not yet really good at that yet.
We used to play Stellaris a lot (and Hearts of Iron before that) and have been dabbling in Endless Legends - I really like the Endless series, but I'm finding Legends hard even at Normal level.
The glamorous life of a former lawmaker.
Although the average age of a gamer is higher than it used to be, I bet most politicians have very little appreciation for games or gaming culture - if only there were more NickPalmer's in Parliament maybe they'd understand the youth better!
What do we think each leader's favourite game would be?
Boris - something chaotic, explosive and with childishly done adult themes like Grand Theft Auto Corbyn - something methodical, dry, but not very challenging, like Stardew Valley Swinson - middle of the road, functional but unexceptional, probably action-adventure but not what people are generally after thesedays, like Crash Bandicoot
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
They will pin it all on Jez and Brexit and carry on with the Marxism.
And the BBC. Don't forget the role of the BBC in stopping Jezza winning power.
The Marxist blame list:
***NOT US!*** The Jews The BBC The Liberal Democrats Nicola Sturgeon The Jews The Jews Tories Racist Tories Fascist Racist Tories Cheating Tories (dropping the Dementia Tax, the bastards!) Rachel Riley (a Tory Jew) Tory Jews Jewish Tories Rupert Murdoch Thick Brexity Old People MI5 ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY NOT ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR JEREMY. The Jews The Jews The Weather Profiteering American Social Media Billionaires (and Broadband Providers) Billionaire Tory Donors The Banks Jewish Banks The Jews The Jews Biased MSM The Jewish Chronicle Maureen Lipman (a Tory Jew) The Jews The Jews Mossad Agents Splitters! AND NOT JOHN EITHER. OR DIANE. OR SEUMAS. OR LEN. The Jews Racist Northerners Nigel Farage (a Tory racist) The Jews The Jews The Queen (a thick Brexity old person, and probably Jewish) The International Jewish Capitalist Conspiracy Ignorant English Nationalist Racist Voter Scum and THE JEWS!
If labour do end up in the 160 to 180 range surely they are going to absolutely rip themselves apart over it? The left wont accept any move away from Corbynism and the cooper bennites will refuse to go on with it.
They will pin it all on Jez and Brexit and carry on with the Marxism.
And the BBC. Don't forget the role of the BBC in stopping Jezza winning power.
The Marxist blame list:
***NOT US!*** The Jews The BBC The Liberal Democrats Nicola Sturgeon The Jews The Jews Tories Racist Tories Fascist Racist Tories Cheating Tories (dropping the Dementia Tax, the bastards!) Rachel Riley (a Tory Jew) Tory Jews Jewish Tories Rupert Murdoch Thick Brexity Old People MI5 ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY NOT ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR JEREMY. The Jews The Jews The Weather Profiteering American Social Media Billionaires (and Broadband Providers) Billionaire Tory Donors The Banks Jewish Banks The Jews The Jews Biased MSM The Jewish Chronicle Maureen Lipman (a Tory Jew) The Jews The Jews Mossad Agents Splitters! AND NOT JOHN EITHER. OR DIANE. OR SEUMAS. OR LEN. The Jews Racist Northerners Nigel Farage (a Tory racist) The Jews The Jews The Queen (a thick Brexity old person, and probably Jewish) The International Jewish Capitalist Conspiracy Ignorant English Nationalist Racist Voter Scum and THE JEWS!
Have I missed anyone out?
lol. Yes you missed the ‘racist Jewish Tory pollsters’, trying to stir up apathy and defeatism in Labour ranks.
Seriously. Go on Twitter. It’s full of mad Corbynite with deliciously insane conspiracy theories about the polling companies
I'm reading one from a guy who seriously wonders why no polls with labour leads are published. He presumably thinks twitter polls are proper polls!
Boy, if twitter polls ended up being closer to the result than this lot, I think all our collective heads would explode.
I'd speculate that a factor in it at least is that there are lots of people who think Johnson is unscrupulous and untrustworthy, and even more than many politicians is only in it for himself without any true ideology or vision. This can, counter intuitively, be spun as a positive by people looking for a reason not to vote Corbyn, because people can reassure themselves that Johnson probably won't do various really bad things that ideologues like Rees-Mogg or Baker would do, because he will see no further advantage in doing so, after having won.
Whereas Corbyn genuinely has political vision. And that's good if you like the vision, but if you do not, you cannot have much hope he will not do it if he wins.
There's probably something to that. The flip side of having an unwelcome reputation for a lack of truthfulness is that it also makes it possible for people to believe that Johnson is a pragmatist who will execute whatever policies are needed to keep him in power. That isn't going to suit the entire electorate, but it will suit a big enough chunk to get him elected. It's a good reason for well-off people who think Corbyn will embark on confiscatory policies to vote Tory. Even if they aren't convinced that Johnson will necessarily do anything positive for them, avoiding the whole heap of possible negatives that could or would come with Labour is good enough.
After the Tories' euphoria over this evening's Opinium 19% lead for them, it's back to earth with YouGov who report an unchanged 12% lead for the Blue team, indicating a far more modest majority of just 36 seats. It wouldn't take much of a late swing to eliminate that. It's not all over yet, not by any means.
Random thought: With the big national lead and Brexit Party not even standing in their seats some of the majorities in Tory safe seats are going to be massive.
I think MRP is Multilateral Regressive Projection, or something like that and it attempts to caculate not just how many of one party have moved to another, but what type, e.g. age, income, and so on, In theory much better predicter than Uniform National Swing, but also quite hard to do unless you have a big load of data that can be crunched, and as such it will have a subjective element.
After the Tories' euphoria over this evening's Opinium 19% lead for them, it's back to earth with YouGov who report an unchanged 12% lead for the Blue team, indicating a far more modest majority of just 36 seats. It wouldn't take much of a late swing to eliminate that. It's not all over yet, not by any means.
No it is not, given how big a lead the Tories need to be confident of a majority. But, to borrow a phrase, tick tock.
"In the Cities of London and Westminster, Chuka Umunna could become the first non-Conservative MP for the area since 1874. The former Labour MP, now fighting the seat as a Liberal Democrat, is currently six points behind Nickie Aiken, the Conservative candidate. But Deltapoll’s figures show that tactical voting by Labour party supporters could give Umunna victory."
Random thought: With the big national lead and Brexit Party not even standing in their seats some of the majorities in Tory safe seats are going to be massive.
It's also where the Lib Dems will pick up lots of useless new votes. FPTP, what a stinker.
I actually don’t think it’s the spending commitments which have damaged Labour - the Tories after all have made their own spending commitments in this election campaign. Rather, I agree with Alex in that it was the part nationalisation of broadband policy which was the killer. What Labour did right last time was their policies were focused on issues which people considered a priority - e.g. gas and electricity. Broadband is not considered a major priority at the top of voters’ lists ahead of gas and electricity prices, housing, the NHS, or even tuition fees.
A major mistake of the Corbyn campaign is this ‘neutral’ stance he would take in a referendum. It is not plausible to simply sit on the fence and be ‘neutral’ about the biggest issue of the day. What is even more implausible is the idea of going to the EU to get a new deal and then not even having the audacity to advocate for your own deal in a referendum. This position doesn’t win over Brexiteers who are already committed to the Tories anyway, and alienates Remainers who might have considered voting Labour.
Corbyn’s incompetence also undermines all the big promises he makes. I think members of the public don’t view his manifesto as ‘Marxism’ but instead see it that if this man can’t even deal with an antisemitism crisis in his own party how on earth is he going to radically and successfully expand the state?
The Tories, by contrast while making spending commitments have avoided making big promises and adopting unpopular policies. Investing in the NHS, committing to not increasing VAT, NI and income tax will all be popular with voters. The move to shelve cutting corporation tax further is very smart as well - it makes it harder for Labour to state that the Tories are issuing ‘tax cuts for the rich’. Now, the Tories need to make sure they stay away from major welfare policies (the mood has shifted away from ‘tough on benefit claimants’ in the last ten years) and avoid a dementia tax style gaffe.
I don’t see the debates radically changing anything. I think Philip Blond made a good point when he said you can only really lose debates, not win them on Sky News yesterday.
Comments
Labour have until next Thursday. By then we are two weeks away from the vote. If they haven’t made serious ground by that moment, it’s over. Five days and counting
Opinium: Con +19
BMG: Con +13
YouGov: Con +12
Panelbase: Con +10
More expected.
https://t.co/m1hoBpI81D https://t.co/IrRqq4YFxf
But I get your point.
The membership will elect a Corbyn replacement without the historic baggage, and keep plodding along the same road. The "Cooper-Bennites" will go along with it because they're primarily interested in keeping their jobs, and they'll believe by that point (whether it ultimately turns out to be true or not) that any Labour MP who has survived the cull will have a guaranteed job for life. A bit like the Tory survivors of 1997.
Anybody who *really* couldn't live with the Far Left and its insanity, e.g. Chuka Umunna and Frank Field, has already departed. The MPs who are still in Labour are supporters and enablers of the revolution. Every last one of them.
Of course, if, at the end of this, the Tories scrape home with a narrow victory (or, God forbid, there's another Hung Parliament) the Corbynites will interpret this as the greatest triumph since 1945, and their man will most likely continue as leader until he decides he's got too old for the gig.
Some on £80k+
Say 50 for SNP 18 NI plus 5 for PC/Green/BXP
565 in total
Has @barnesian deducted 100 from the Tory seat count...
My first attempt was a fail...
Another point that surprised is how poorly the Labour manifesto has been sold compared to 2017 when leaking it was a genius move, partly due to the fact that the big headline grabbers had already been pre-released or were there in 2017. As a result, when it was launched all the big headlines were about the eye-watering total figure rather than the nice stuff, and what the experts thought of it.
I do wonder if Labour got spooked by the Lib Dems' ratings and some crap headlines early on and rushed forward the headline grabbers (as well as trying to nobble the LDs) and was left with none of the choice cuts on manifesto day.
NOM 3.45
Any one of those three would be a massive improvement on Corbyn. It would also help if they could count, but walk before you run and all that.
342/209/30
By constituency, including constituency polls for comparison
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yIHH_ZtcH9w9JF5e8WwYD6QuhOhlVwCO_GboafT6kfc/edit?usp=sharing
We used to play Stellaris a lot (and Hearts of Iron before that) and have been dabbling in Endless Legends - I really like the Endless series, but I'm finding Legends hard even at Normal level.
Best prices - Dundee East
SNP 1/20
SCon 16/1
SLab 17/1
SLD 80/1
https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1198335553764286464
https://twitter.com/observeruk/status/1198335388626116613?s=21
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1198340650871218184
When will they hit 2 trillion in extra spending pledges....
You know all paid for by 5% of the population..... right.
It’s like a spurned husband making promises to get his wife back. When he promises to clean the kitchen, and cut down on the drinking, she gives him a listen. She’s interested.
When he then promises to get a job as a brain surgeon, buy her a Maserati, and take her on holiday to the Maldives for six months, she looks at him and she despises him as a liar. And worse: a liar who takes her for a fool.
***NOT US!***
The Jews
The BBC
The Liberal Democrats
Nicola Sturgeon
The Jews
The Jews
Tories
Racist Tories
Fascist Racist Tories
Cheating Tories (dropping the Dementia Tax, the bastards!)
Rachel Riley (a Tory Jew)
Tory Jews
Jewish Tories
Rupert Murdoch
Thick Brexity Old People
MI5
ABSOLUTELY DEFINITELY NOT ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR JEREMY.
The Jews
The Jews
The Weather
Profiteering American Social Media Billionaires
(and Broadband Providers)
Billionaire Tory Donors
The Banks
Jewish Banks
The Jews
The Jews
Biased MSM
The Jewish Chronicle
Maureen Lipman (a Tory Jew)
The Jews
The Jews
Mossad Agents
Splitters!
AND NOT JOHN EITHER. OR DIANE. OR SEUMAS. OR LEN.
The Jews
Racist Northerners
Nigel Farage (a Tory racist)
The Jews
The Jews
The Queen (a thick Brexity old person, and probably Jewish)
The International Jewish Capitalist Conspiracy
Ignorant English Nationalist Racist Voter Scum
and
THE JEWS!
Have I missed anyone out?
The glamorous life of a former lawmaker.
https://twitter.com/mickrjackson10/status/1198311662673104904
Voters, generally speaking, appear to know that Johnson is a liar. It's just that a great many of them still think he's better than the alternative.
Red Tories
The Greens
Tony Blair
Are three glaring omissions.
Whereas Corbyn genuinely has political vision. And that's good if you like the vision, but if you do not, you cannot have much hope he will not do it if he wins.
Seriously. Go on Twitter. It’s full of mad Corbynite with deliciously insane conspiracy theories about the polling companies
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/survey-of-27-000-left-wing-twitter-accounts-shows-nearly-a-fifth-promote-or-engage-in-antisemitism-1.480094
Published this February:
A survey of thousands of left-wing social media accounts by Hope Not Hate found that nearly a fifth promote or engage in antisemitism.
The anti-fascist group’s “State of Hate 2019” report into racism — to be published on Monday — analysed 27,000 Twitter profiles that follow a selection of UK-based left-wing accounts which “regularly spread antisemitic ideas”.
Of the 27,000 accounts, the charity found up to 5,000 of them — just under 19 per cent — have expressed antisemitic ideas twice or more on social media.
Some of the accounts posted over 100 tweets that could be clearly identified as antisemitic, featuring tropes such as Jewish control of the media or banking system.
But while the country might be willing to pay taxes for other people's hip replacement or diabetes medication, they don't see why it is a priority for the country to provide free broadband - which poor people who cannot afford a computer aren't going to be able to benefit from anyway.
THE JEWS!
What do we think each leader's favourite game would be?
Boris - something chaotic, explosive and with childishly done adult themes like Grand Theft Auto
Corbyn - something methodical, dry, but not very challenging, like Stardew Valley
Swinson - middle of the road, functional but unexceptional, probably action-adventure but not what people are generally after thesedays, like Crash Bandicoot
Opinium's are at the bottom of this article.
https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-20th-november-2019/
The point at which British Communists have to start calling black white, and white black.
😆
Deltapoll, Tories -2, still massive lead though
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/23/poll-models-fail-spot-voting-variation-london-marginal-seats
I'm not fully convinced that Labour voters would be happy to vote for a Lib Dem who was still a Labour MP in February 2019.
A major mistake of the Corbyn campaign is this ‘neutral’ stance he would take in a referendum. It is not plausible to simply sit on the fence and be ‘neutral’ about the biggest issue of the day. What is even more implausible is the idea of going to the EU to get a new deal and then not even having the audacity to advocate for your own deal in a referendum. This position doesn’t win over Brexiteers who are already committed to the Tories anyway, and alienates Remainers who might have considered voting Labour.
Corbyn’s incompetence also undermines all the big promises he makes. I think members of the public don’t view his manifesto as ‘Marxism’ but instead see it that if this man can’t even deal with an antisemitism crisis in his own party how on earth is he going to radically and successfully expand the state?
The Tories, by contrast while making spending commitments have avoided making big promises and adopting unpopular policies. Investing in the NHS, committing to not increasing VAT, NI and income tax will all be popular with voters. The move to shelve cutting corporation tax further is very smart as well - it makes it harder for Labour to state that the Tories are issuing ‘tax cuts for the rich’. Now, the Tories need to make sure they stay away from major welfare policies (the mood has shifted away from ‘tough on benefit claimants’ in the last ten years) and avoid a dementia tax style gaffe.
I don’t see the debates radically changing anything. I think Philip Blond made a good point when he said you can only really lose debates, not win them on Sky News yesterday.