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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The GE2019 podcast from Keiran Pedley – now with Ipsos MORI

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  • You do know you are facing wipeout in Wales
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Noo said:

    Floater said:

    Roger said:

    Floater said:

    Plaid have won both council by-elections in Wales tonight (from Labour).

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1195119628147671041

    Hardly look like they on the verge of kicking out the tories do they
    A good result for the remain alliance. it's working
    Labour collapsing is good for them is it?

    LOL - if you say so
    It's not good for Labour. It's good for the Remain alliance. Keep up.
    Of which Labour are not part - next
  • You do know you are facing wipeout in Wales
    If Plaid clean up, it's net zero for Labour. I'm happy with that.

    I also hope for an SNP landslide.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited November 2019

    HYUFD said:

    4 weeks to the first Sunderland results...

    And hopefully I won't be packing my bags....
    Anyone who won't be emigrating if Corbyn gets in? Beyond Labour and SNP voters of course
    Well, there's the 90% who have no realistic means of emigrating.
    Plus there's the 9% representing those who could emigrate but who love this country too much to leave.

    So that just leaves the 1% who are wealthy and don't like the UK that much, I guess. They can bugger-off as far as I'm concerned. :smile:
    Well I won't just be going, I will be taking my businesses with me.
    You could have had free fibre broadband for them as well

    The Commie Cable Co won't be able to provide the service I require, but I won't have any choice.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    Will the Tories actually announce any policies? I can't think of a single policy off the top of my head.

    Does anyone honestly think this election will be Brexit alone?

    Wait and see - you’ll be the first to know 😉 Might not be a good day for you so be prepared.

    I remember the 2017 election - when so many ran away.
    It isn’t 2017. And well done for remembering back 2 years.

    I don’t think you realise what is about to hit you. Still. If you want to imagine it’s 2017 then go ahead. It’ll keep you sane until the inevitable happens.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,498
    GIN1138 said:

    LAB should also offer free Sky Sports for the 70+ group and at least one adult channel to be chosen by SeanT

    Hopefully these two are not mutually exclusive? :open_mouth:
    In a socialist utopia,’a
    Noo said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Noo said:
    The message is a decent enough one, but it was a bit long - the joke of it was made 30 seconds in, I don't think another 90 seconds was needed to make the same points. No the message is not diluted by it being a whole 2 minutes long, but it'd be like saying 'Corbyn is a commie' five times in a Tory broadcast. 2 or 3 would do it.
    Disagree. Very good tape.
    I'm curious - what about repeating the same gag a dozen times make it better than repeating it 6 times would?
    It's effective. Repetition is commonly used in both rhetoric and comedy.
    It's effective.
    Floater said:

    Jonathan said:

    Why not free leccy and gas? I mean fuck it, tax at 85% and free utilities, basic weekly ration allowance, make us all completely dependent on the State

    As opposed to being completely dependent on private utilities.
    Who we can bin if we not happy with the service

    Do you not remember the bad old days with the state phone monopoly??
    Worst experience I've had with phone services was with fucking ntl. God alive what a bunch of tarts they were. Makes my blood boil now just thinking about it, 20 years on.
    NTL were legendarily shite, helmets of the first order. I’m shuddering with you, two decades hence.
  • kle4 said:

    GooeyBlob said:

    Jason Zadrozny has been taking to social media to claim Tories have no chance in Ashfield, it's a straight fight between him and Labour. His election literature is full of the same nonsense. Desperate stuff and locals are starting to get annoyed with his outrageous claims. Labour were only 400 votes ahead of Tories in 2017, Ashfield Independents a further 16,000 behind that. Think he's losing the plot, a sign things aren't going his way perhaps?

    I often think that a confident attitude can take you a long way, and be effective, but there are limits and at some point cautious optimism might be a better approach.
    I'm on a Lab hold at just short of 3.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Again, Labour to Plaid is net zero. Lib Dem to Labour or vice versa is net zero.

    It's the marginals that matter.

    I love your username, by the way. I know the reference. I wonder how many people do, without googling.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    Roger said:

    welshowl said:

    Out of interest, for those who support the policy, why not nationalise the Virgin Media infrastructure on the same basis? After all it was once the nationalised telegraph (I think you can draw a line back through Cable and Wireless).

    Well given Virgin will basically not have a consumer business come 2030, the Commie Cable Company can just seize the infrastructure when it goes bust.
    And we all get free fibre Broadand

    Poor Richard Branson and Rupert Murdoch make less money how sad never mind.
    Jesus. How short sighted.

    And everyone else involved in business providing the wealth that runs public services will take note, take cover, or flee.

    You really do not get what the knock on impact of confiscation will be do you?
    Free broadband's a good idea....
    Yeah, if this policy has been announced a decade ago, we’d all have free ADSL now.
    Assuming you could get the state telco to connect you.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614

    HYUFD said:

    4 weeks to the first Sunderland results...

    And hopefully I won't be packing my bags....
    Anyone who won't be emigrating if Corbyn gets in? Beyond Labour and SNP voters of course
    Well, there's the 90% who have no realistic means of emigrating.
    Plus there's the 9% representing those who could emigrate but who love this country too much to leave.

    So that just leaves the 1% who are wealthy and don't like the UK that much, I guess. They can bugger-off as far as I'm concerned. :smile:
    Just the ones who pay for the NHS then.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    HYUFD said:

    4 weeks to the first Sunderland results...

    And hopefully I won't be packing my bags....
    Anyone who won't be emigrating if Corbyn gets in? Beyond Labour and SNP voters of course
    Well, there's the 90% who have no realistic means of emigrating.
    Plus there's the 9% representing those who could emigrate but who love this country too much to leave.

    So that just leaves the 1% who are wealthy and don't like the UK that much, I guess. They can bugger-off as far as I'm concerned. :smile:
    Well I won't just be going, I will be taking my businesses with me.
    And many more will follow you, it would be the late 1970s x10
  • You do know you are facing wipeout in Wales
    If Plaid clean up, it's net zero for Labour. I'm happy with that.

    I also hope for an SNP landslide.
    So labour decimated in the HOC
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    kle4 said:
    It's a bit late in the Eve for jokes like that.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1195110530056409089

    Jason said:

    Why not free leccy and gas? I mean fuck it, tax at 85% and free utilities, basic weekly ration allowance, make us all completely dependent on the State

    If Corbyn got into power, that's precisely what would happen. These fellas believe the Venezuelan economic model is more desirable than ours. So, mass starvation would be preferable to using food banks. Better for everyone to starve than just a few.
    Quite. Eliminate inequality by the simple expedient of making everybody without the means to emigrate dirt poor. HOWEVER...
    GIN1138 said:

    Why not free leccy and gas? I mean fuck it, tax at 85% and free utilities, basic weekly ration allowance, make us all completely dependent on the State

    Labour's gone mad.

    Anyone over the age to 30 will run a mile I'd have thought.
    I fear that we underestimate at our peril the attraction of "free" everything. Labour can get a hearing for all of these ideas if it can convince a sufficient number of voters that they'll all be paid for by other people, i.e. "the rich" (variously defined as 'billionaires whom we all know have effectively infinite amounts of cash, none of which they deserve to possess and which should therefore be spent on me' or 'everybody in the country with an income at least £1 per year higher than mine.')
    Except it is now clear they won't just be paid by other people but by the average voter

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1194956394287362048?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1195044471702016000?s=20
    Desperate fake news.

    Get some fooking policies
    The podcast suggests the Tories might consider putting off their manifesto as long as they can to avoid a repeat of last time. Screams of confidence if that is true.
    When Thatcher won in 1983 she had few controversial policies in her manifesto, the Tories just hammered Labour on their manifesto, which Kaufman called 'the longest suicide note in history.' Boris seems to be following Mrs T's lead
    Heck of a gamble to assume now will play out like 1983. Should the Tories have done the same in 2010 or 2015 because it worked in 1983?

    That said, I wouldn't say it has no chance of succeeding. Roll on weekend polls, and post debate polls, to see if it is working.
    1983 was defined by the Falklands War the preceeding year. No other GE will ever be like 1983.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Noo said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Noo said:
    The message is a decent enough one, but it was a bit long - the joke of it was made 30 seconds in, I don't think another 90 seconds was needed to make the same points. No the message is not diluted by it being a whole 2 minutes long, but it'd be like saying 'Corbyn is a commie' five times in a Tory broadcast. 2 or 3 would do it.
    Disagree. Very good tape.
    I'm curious - what about repeating the same gag a dozen times make it better than repeating it 6 times would?
    It's effective. Repetition is commonly used in both rhetoric and comedy.
    It's effective.
    That's missed the point - I know repetition is effective, but how much repetition is needed to be effective? Eg say it 6 times instead of 12 - both are repetitive, which is more effective? It's not like there's some factor by which the effectiveness inevitably increases each time it is repeated.
  • Do we want the state providing Internet access and thereby controlling, at the least, aspects of traffic shaping?

    Just a thought.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1195110530056409089

    Jason said:

    Why not free leccy and gas? I mean fuck it, tax at 85% and free utilities, basic weekly ration allowance, make us all completely dependent on the State

    If Corbyn got into power, that's precisely what would happen. These fellas believe the Venezuelan economic model is more desirable than ours. So, mass starvation would be preferable to using food banks. Better for everyone to starve than just a few.
    Quite. Eliminate inequality by the simple expedient of making everybody without the means to emigrate dirt poor. HOWEVER...
    GIN1138 said:

    Why not free leccy and gas? I mean fuck it, tax at 85% and free utilities, basic weekly ration allowance, make us all completely dependent on the State

    Labour's gone mad.

    Anyone over the age to 30 will run a mile I'd have thought.
    I fear that we underestimate at our peril the attraction of "free" everything. Labour can get a hearing for all of these ideas if it can convince a sufficient number of voters that they'll all be paid for by other people, i.e. "the rich" (variously defined as 'billionaires whom we all know have effectively infinite amounts of cash, none of which they deserve to possess and which should therefore be spent on me' or 'everybody in the country with an income at least £1 per year higher than mine.')
    Except it is now clear they won't just be paid by other people but by the average voter

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1194956394287362048?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1195044471702016000?s=20
    Desperate fake news.

    Get some fooking policies
    The podcast suggests the Tories might consider putting off their manifesto as long as they can to avoid a repeat of last time. Screams of confidence if that is true.
    When Thatcher won in 1983 she had few controversial policies in her manifesto, the Tories just hammered Labour on their manifesto, which Kaufman called 'the longest suicide note in history.' Boris seems to be following Mrs T's lead
    Heck of a gamble to assume now will play out like 1983. Should the Tories have done the same in 2010 or 2015 because it worked in 1983?

    That said, I wouldn't say it has no chance of succeeding. Roll on weekend polls, and post debate polls, to see if it is working.
    1983 was defined by the Falklands War the preceeding year. No other GE will ever be like 1983.
    Or like 2017.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Jason said:

    Will the Tories actually announce any policies? I can't think of a single policy off the top of my head.

    Does anyone honestly think this election will be Brexit alone?

    I reckon most Labour folk would much rather it was about anything else than Brexit. Can't think why.
    The Tories will copy the broadband announcement. They have no choice. How do you answer the claim Only 10% of premises in the UK are connected to full-fibre broadband, in Japan it’s 97%? And Is that all it would cost £20B? So two years out of EU pays for it? And surely the benefit to business subtracts from the cost?

    The Tory’s should say, you’ve stolen our big idea! We were going to do that too! Don’t allow Labour this differential! Such differentials could sneak majority out of Tory hands.

    So that’s one interesting policy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1195110530056409089

    Jason said:

    Why not free leccy and gas? I mean fuck it, tax at 85% and free utilities, basic weekly ration allowance, make us all completely dependent on the State

    If Corbyn got into power, that's precisely what would happen. These fellas believe the Venezuelan economic model is more desirable than ours. So, mass starvation would be preferable to using food banks. Better for everyone to starve than just a few.
    Quite. Eliminate inequality by the simple expedient of making everybody without the means to emigrate dirt poor. HOWEVER...
    GIN1138 said:

    Why not free leccy and gas? I mean fuck it, tax at 85% and free utilities, basic weekly ration allowance, make us all completely dependent on the State

    Labour's gone mad.

    Anyone over the age to 30 will run a mile I'd have thought.
    I fear that we underestimate at our peril the attraction of "free" everything. Labour can get a hearing for all of these ideas if it can convince a sufficient number of voters that they'll all be paid for by other people, i.e. "the rich" (variously defined as 'billionaires whom we all know have effectively infinite amounts of cash, none of which they deserve to possess and which should therefore be spent on me' or 'everybody in the country with an income at least £1 per year higher than mine.')
    Except it is now clear they won't just be paid by other people but by the average voter

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1194956394287362048?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1195044471702016000?s=20
    Desperate fake news.

    Get some fooking policies
    The podcast suggests the Tories might consider putting off their manifesto as long as they can to avoid a repeat of last time. Screams of confidence if that is true.
    When Thatcher won in 1983 she had few controversial policies in her manifesto, the Tories just hammered Labour on their manifesto, which Kaufman called 'the longest suicide note in history.' Boris seems to be following Mrs T's lead
    Heck of a gamble to assume now will play out like 1983. Should the Tories have done the same in 2010 or 2015 because it worked in 1983?

    That said, I wouldn't say it has no chance of succeeding. Roll on weekend polls, and post debate polls, to see if it is working.
    The Tories went heavy on attack ads on Labour in 2015 like now, less so in 2017. The 2015 Tory manifesto was also far less controversial than the 2017 Tory manifesto
  • Noo said:

    Again, Labour to Plaid is net zero. Lib Dem to Labour or vice versa is net zero.

    It's the marginals that matter.

    I love your username, by the way. I know the reference. I wonder how many people do, without googling.
    You are the first person to get it.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    You do know you are facing wipeout in Wales
    If Plaid clean up, it's net zero for Labour. I'm happy with that.

    I also hope for an SNP landslide.
    So wait -

    Brexit potentially breaking up the union = bad

    The Union breaking up if it helps Labour grab power = good?

    Riiiight
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Floater said:

    Noo said:

    Floater said:

    Roger said:

    Floater said:

    Plaid have won both council by-elections in Wales tonight (from Labour).

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1195119628147671041

    Hardly look like they on the verge of kicking out the tories do they
    A good result for the remain alliance. it's working
    Labour collapsing is good for them is it?

    LOL - if you say so
    It's not good for Labour. It's good for the Remain alliance. Keep up.
    Of which Labour are not part - next
    exactly
  • Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    welshowl said:

    Out of interest, for those who support the policy, why not nationalise the Virgin Media infrastructure on the same basis? After all it was once the nationalised telegraph (I think you can draw a line back through Cable and Wireless).

    Well given Virgin will basically not have a consumer business come 2030, the Commie Cable Company can just seize the infrastructure when it goes bust.
    And we all get free fibre Broadand

    Poor Richard Branson and Rupert Murdoch make less money how sad never mind.
    Jesus. How short sighted.

    And everyone else involved in business providing the wealth that runs public services will take note, take cover, or flee.

    You really do not get what the knock on impact of confiscation will be do you?
    Free broadband's a good idea....
    Yeah, if this policy has been announced a decade ago, we’d all have free ADSL now.
    Assuming you could get the state telco to connect you.

    We'd have had FTTP in the 80s if Thatcher hadn't privatised BT.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    edited November 2019

    HYUFD said:

    4 weeks to the first Sunderland results...

    And hopefully I won't be packing my bags....
    Anyone who won't be emigrating if Corbyn gets in? Beyond Labour and SNP voters of course
    Well, there's the 90% who have no realistic means of emigrating.
    Plus there's the 9% representing those who could emigrate but who love this country too much to leave.

    So that just leaves the 1% who are wealthy and don't like the UK that much, I guess. They can bugger-off as far as I'm concerned. :smile:
    Just the ones who pay for the NHS then.....
    Nope - the ones who stash their money into offshore tax avoidance schemes. They might as well go where their untaxed funds are.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited November 2019
    egg said:

    Jason said:

    Will the Tories actually announce any policies? I can't think of a single policy off the top of my head.

    Does anyone honestly think this election will be Brexit alone?

    I reckon most Labour folk would much rather it was about anything else than Brexit. Can't think why.
    The Tories will copy the broadband announcement. They have no choice. How do you answer the claim Only 10% of premises in the UK are connected to full-fibre broadband, in Japan it’s 97%? And Is that all it would cost £20B? So two years out of EU pays for it? And surely the benefit to business subtracts from the cost?

    The Tory’s should say, you’ve stolen our big idea! We were going to do that too! Don’t allow Labour this differential! Such differentials could sneak majority out of Tory hands.

    So that’s one interesting policy.
    You are missing the point. It isn't just the nationalization to massively expand the infrastructure. It is the fact they will be the sole provider of internet to the consumer across the country with a one sized fit all plan.

    Those comparing it to say a phone line, it isn't the same at all. Different folk have widely different requirements for how big the down and up pipe is, even among the consumer, let alone small businesses.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    HYUFD said:

    4 weeks to the first Sunderland results...

    And hopefully I won't be packing my bags....
    Anyone who won't be emigrating if Corbyn gets in? Beyond Labour and SNP voters of course
    Well, there's the 90% who have no realistic means of emigrating.
    Plus there's the 9% representing those who could emigrate but who love this country too much to leave.

    So that just leaves the 1% who are wealthy and don't like the UK that much, I guess. They can bugger-off as far as I'm concerned. :smile:
    Just the ones who pay for the NHS then.....
    They just can't see it.......
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    You do know you are facing wipeout in Wales
    Wipeout = largest party.

    Free Broadband with fibre speed coming to Wales
  • Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    welshowl said:

    Out of interest, for those who support the policy, why not nationalise the Virgin Media infrastructure on the same basis? After all it was once the nationalised telegraph (I think you can draw a line back through Cable and Wireless).

    Well given Virgin will basically not have a consumer business come 2030, the Commie Cable Company can just seize the infrastructure when it goes bust.
    And we all get free fibre Broadand

    Poor Richard Branson and Rupert Murdoch make less money how sad never mind.
    Jesus. How short sighted.

    And everyone else involved in business providing the wealth that runs public services will take note, take cover, or flee.

    You really do not get what the knock on impact of confiscation will be do you?
    Free broadband's a good idea....
    Yeah, if this policy has been announced a decade ago, we’d all have free ADSL now.
    Assuming you could get the state telco to connect you.

    We'd have had FTTP in the 80s if Thatcher hadn't privatised BT.
    Evidence?
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Noo said:

    Again, Labour to Plaid is net zero. Lib Dem to Labour or vice versa is net zero.

    It's the marginals that matter.

    I love your username, by the way. I know the reference. I wonder how many people do, without googling.
    Should we be getting a room for you two?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Noo said:

    Floater said:

    Noo said:

    Floater said:

    Roger said:

    Floater said:

    Plaid have won both council by-elections in Wales tonight (from Labour).

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1195119628147671041

    Hardly look like they on the verge of kicking out the tories do they
    A good result for the remain alliance. it's working
    Labour collapsing is good for them is it?

    LOL - if you say so
    It's not good for Labour. It's good for the Remain alliance. Keep up.
    Of which Labour are not part - next
    exactly
    So this remain alliance - do you think it will top 100 seats then?

    Still a bit short wouldn't you say.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    You do know you are facing wipeout in Wales
    If Plaid clean up, it's net zero for Labour. I'm happy with that.

    I also hope for an SNP landslide.
    So labour decimated in the HOC
    270 will be plenty and mean a left coalition.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited November 2019
    Half way through Question Time and lost the will to live. :(
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    Again, Labour to Plaid is net zero. Lib Dem to Labour or vice versa is net zero.

    It's the marginals that matter.

    I love your username, by the way. I know the reference. I wonder how many people do, without googling.
    You are the first person to get it.
    Well, the place where it's from is something of a... staple... of mine.
  • You do know you are facing wipeout in Wales
    Wipeout = largest party.

    Free Broadband with fibre speed coming to Wales
    Sorry it is not
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited November 2019

    You do know you are facing wipeout in Wales
    If Plaid clean up, it's net zero for Labour. I'm happy with that.

    I also hope for an SNP landslide.
    So labour decimated in the HOC
    270 will be plenty and mean a left coalition.
    I thought you said a Con majority was "inevitable" a few hours ago BJO?

    It's hard to keep up on here. :D
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1195110530056409089

    Jason said:

    Why not free leccy and gas? I mean fuck it, tax at 85% and free utilities, basic weekly ration allowance, make us all completely dependent on the State

    Quite. Eliminate inequality by the simple expedient of making everybody without the means to emigrate dirt poor. HOWEVER...
    GIN1138 said:

    Why not free leccy and gas? I mean fuck it, tax at 85% and free utilities, basic weekly ration allowance, make us all completely dependent on the State

    Labour's gone mad.

    Anyone over the age to 30 will run a mile I'd have thought.
    ')
    Except it is now clear they won't just be paid by other people but by the average voter

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1194956394287362048?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1195044471702016000?s=20
    Desperate fake news.

    Get some fooking policies
    The podcast suggests the Tories might consider putting off their manifesto as long as they can to avoid a repeat of last time. Screams of confidence if that is true.
    When Thatcher won in 1983 she had few controversial policies in her manifesto, the Tories just hammered Labour on their manifesto, which Kaufman called 'the longest suicide note in history.' Boris seems to be following Mrs T's lead
    Heck of a gamble to assume now will play out like 1983. Should the Tories have done the same in 2010 or 2015 because it worked in 1983?

    That said, I wouldn't say it has no chance of succeeding. Roll on weekend polls, and post debate polls, to see if it is working.
    The Tories went heavy on attack ads on Labour in 2015 like now, less so in 2017. The 2015 Tory manifesto was also far less controversial than the 2017 Tory manifesto
    You saying Milli & Balls had more unfair rotten eggs thrown at them than given to Corbyn?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    edited November 2019
    Nigelb said:



    Yeah, if this policy has been announced a decade ago, we’d all have free ADSL now.
    Assuming you could get the state telco to connect you.

    The Labour plan back from 2010 was 16 Mb/s* for everyone, and mobile and satellite for the last 10% of hard to reach homes. They were going to put a levy of fixed telephone lines** to pay for universal provision.

    It all sounds very unambitious and outdated already.

    * It says "two megabytes per second by 2012", but I actually wonder if they meant 2 megabits per second, which would be the usual way of talking about network bandwidth.

    ** Telephone lines, that sounds almost ancient now.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Jason said:

    Noo said:

    Again, Labour to Plaid is net zero. Lib Dem to Labour or vice versa is net zero.

    It's the marginals that matter.

    I love your username, by the way. I know the reference. I wonder how many people do, without googling.
    Should we be getting a room for you two?
    Sorry, I shan't say anything nice again.
    Jason, your username is shit ;)
  • GIN1138 said:

    Half way through Question Time and lost the will to live. :(

    You made it halfway?
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    That fella on Sky News press preview has just dismantled Labour's economic policy in about 30 seconds flat.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Noo said:

    Again, Labour to Plaid is net zero. Lib Dem to Labour or vice versa is net zero.

    It's the marginals that matter.

    I love your username, by the way. I know the reference. I wonder how many people do, without googling.
    You are the first person to get it.
    Strong and staple
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    Has anybody commented on this General Election Nowcast (12th Nov) from Election Maps:

    CON: 367 (+4), 38.2% (-1.0)
    LAB: 195 (+6), 28.2% (+0.4)
    SNP: 46 (-4), 3.4% (+0.1)
    LDM: 19 (-6), 15.8% (-0.1)

    LibDems on 19???
  • The Tories wish to play the 2015 austerity game but in reverse?

    "Why would I vote Tory for spending pledges when I can have the real thing with Labour".

    This election is backfiring.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453

    HYUFD said:

    4 weeks to the first Sunderland results...

    And hopefully I won't be packing my bags....
    Anyone who won't be emigrating if Corbyn gets in? Beyond Labour and SNP voters of course
    Well, there's the 90% who have no realistic means of emigrating.
    Plus there's the 9% representing those who could emigrate but who love this country too much to leave.

    So that just leaves the 1% who are wealthy and don't like the UK that much, I guess. They can bugger-off as far as I'm concerned. :smile:
    Well I won't just be going, I will be taking my businesses with me.
    Cheerio!
    Which means less tax and less money to pay for public services.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    edited November 2019
    Jason said:

    Noo said:

    Again, Labour to Plaid is net zero. Lib Dem to Labour or vice versa is net zero.

    It's the marginals that matter.

    I love your username, by the way. I know the reference. I wonder how many people do, without googling.
    Should we be getting a room for you two?
    Free hotel stays for all. Vote Labour.
  • Pierrot said:

    Pierrot said:

    kle4 said:

    Nationalising broadband? Just why?

    Bizarre policy and Orwellian.

    I imagine the intent is indicate Labour regard broadband as a key utility like water and electricity, which is best kept out of the hands of rapacious private companies who treat you like crap. Whatever the merits or not of nationalising various utlilities, its generally not an unpopular policy, and a lot of people think their broadband service is crap and I'd think won't dislike the suggestion. Plus compared to other cash splurges it doesn't even sound like a lot.
    I am pretty sure nationalised companies will be much better at treating you like crap when they have no competition for you to run off to.
    A nationalised BT would have a long way to go to treat its customers as atrociously as TalkTalk, Vodafone and Three all do.
    You have no idea. They practically invented crap service.
    Did they try to rob dead and bereaved people, as TalkTalk do? Did they have store staff saying things like "Dunno. You'll have to ask BT", as staff in Vodafone stores often say in relation to Vodafone? Did they lyingly say they wouldn't assume they had a continuing direct debit authority and then "assume" precisely that, as Vodafone do? I'm not saying state-owned BT weren't crap, but I never had anything like any of that from them. "Utilities work better when they're privatised" is Tory propaganda from the 1980s. At one point the rail sector was receiving five times as much public money after privatisation as when it was state-owned.

    I once instructed TalkTalk over the phone to disconnect me and the guy refused, saying I'd lose money getting reconnected with someone else so he wouldn't do it.
    Yep

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jul/20/bt-bills-death-charges

    Everything you list BT probably invented.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Floater said:

    Noo said:

    Floater said:

    Noo said:

    Floater said:

    Roger said:

    Floater said:

    Plaid have won both council by-elections in Wales tonight (from Labour).

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1195119628147671041

    Hardly look like they on the verge of kicking out the tories do they
    A good result for the remain alliance. it's working
    Labour collapsing is good for them is it?

    LOL - if you say so
    It's not good for Labour. It's good for the Remain alliance. Keep up.
    Of which Labour are not part - next
    exactly
    So this remain alliance - do you think it will top 100 seats then?

    Still a bit short wouldn't you say.
    Probably not, since the drones will head back to Conservative and Labour like they normally do under the punishing deathgrip of FPTP. But this kind of result is a glimmer of hope. If Lab+Con had taken 85% of the vote then it would be a pretty bad sign.
    Still, it's best not to overreact to a council byelection.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614

    Jason said:

    Noo said:

    Again, Labour to Plaid is net zero. Lib Dem to Labour or vice versa is net zero.

    It's the marginals that matter.

    I love your username, by the way. I know the reference. I wonder how many people do, without googling.
    Should we be getting a room for you two?
    Free hotel stays for all. Vote Labour.
    Although, you now no longer have a house.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Has anybody commented on this General Election Nowcast (12th Nov) from Election Maps:

    CON: 367 (+4), 38.2% (-1.0)
    LAB: 195 (+6), 28.2% (+0.4)
    SNP: 46 (-4), 3.4% (+0.1)
    LDM: 19 (-6), 15.8% (-0.1)

    LibDems on 19???

    They need big swings to make gains of most targets. They never quite make that tipping point.
  • Jason said:

    That fella on Sky News press preview has just dismantled Labour's economic policy in about 30 seconds flat.

    City AM editor.

    Funny how Labour spend a week trying to trash the Tory £1.2tn message, then promptly introduce an additional £30bn pledge.

    They must reckon anyone who's going to vote for them can't remember state run telephone services.
  • will bothies get the free broadband?

    I hope so because the next policy is free bothies for all.
    bothies are already free for all. guaranteed firewood supply otoh....
  • Jason said:

    Noo said:

    Again, Labour to Plaid is net zero. Lib Dem to Labour or vice versa is net zero.

    It's the marginals that matter.

    I love your username, by the way. I know the reference. I wonder how many people do, without googling.
    Should we be getting a room for you two?
    Free hotel stays for all. Vote Labour.
    Although, you now no longer have a house.....
    Free sleeping bags and nice cardboard sheets to lie on too.
  • People assume people care Labour is pledging to spend money. I don't think they do, at all.

    A month out and it's a 10 point gap. The manifesto is what closed the gap last time, it may well happen again.

    Two weeks - and we will know where we stand.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    You do know you are facing wipeout in Wales
    Wipeout = largest party.

    Free Broadband with fibre speed coming to Wales
    Sorry it is not
    I’m not sure either. I’m in two minds about it.
    Does it come with a free owl?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    kle4 said:

    Has anybody commented on this General Election Nowcast (12th Nov) from Election Maps:

    CON: 367 (+4), 38.2% (-1.0)
    LAB: 195 (+6), 28.2% (+0.4)
    SNP: 46 (-4), 3.4% (+0.1)
    LDM: 19 (-6), 15.8% (-0.1)

    LibDems on 19???

    They need big swings to make gains of most targets. They never quite make that tipping point.
    So no Prime Minister Jo Swinson then? But I got a leaflet and everything....
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Roger said:

    I would like to nationalize the Daily Telegraph and turn it back into a newspaper again.

    Well, it is for sale.....
    I wonder if a Russian oligarch will buy it at above market value for sevices rendered to Putin! :wink: Russians play a long game, Brexit has uttley disrupted the UK and potentially could see its component parts fracture.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    Banterman said:

    Jason said:

    Noo said:

    Again, Labour to Plaid is net zero. Lib Dem to Labour or vice versa is net zero.

    It's the marginals that matter.

    I love your username, by the way. I know the reference. I wonder how many people do, without googling.
    Should we be getting a room for you two?
    Free hotel stays for all. Vote Labour.
    Although, you now no longer have a house.....
    Free sleeping bags and nice cardboard sheets to lie on too.
    Fair exchange is no robbery, comrade....
  • Do we want the state providing Internet access and thereby controlling, at the least, aspects of traffic shaping?

    Just a thought.

    And tracking everything you do.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1195110530056409089

    Jason said:

    Why not free leccy and gas? I mean fuck it, tax at 85% and free utilities, basic weekly ration allowance, make us all completely dependent on the State

    If Corbyn got into power, that's precisely what would happen. These fellas believe the Venezuelan economic model is more desirable than ours. So, mass starvation would be preferable to using food banks. Better for everyone to starve than just a few.
    Quite. Eliminate inequality by the simple expedient of making everybody without the means to emigrate dirt poor. HOWEVER...
    GIN1138 said:

    Why not free leccy and gas? I mean fuck it, tax at 85% and free utilities, basic weekly ration allowance, make us all completely dependent on the State

    Labour's gone mad.

    Anyone over the age to 30 will run a mile I'd have thought.
    e at least £1 per year higher than mine.')
    Except it is now clear they won't just be paid by other people but by the average voter

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1194956394287362048?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1195044471702016000?s=20
    Desperate fake news.

    Get some fooking policies
    eat of last time. Screams of confidence if that is true.
    When Thatcher won in 1983 she had few controversial policies in her manifesto, the Tories just hammered Labour on their manifesto, which Kaufman called 'the longest suicide note in history.' Boris seems to be following Mrs T's lead
    Heck of a gamble to assume now will play out like 1983. Should the Tories have done the same in 2010 or 2015 because it worked in 1983?

    That said, I wouldn't say it has no chance of succeeding. Roll on weekend polls, and post debate polls, to see if it is working.
    1983 was defined by the Falklands War the preceeding year. No other GE will ever be like 1983.
    How do you explain the fact that the Falklands was mentioned once during the BBC's 1983 election show which lasted for about 12 hours?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Banterman said:

    Jason said:

    That fella on Sky News press preview has just dismantled Labour's economic policy in about 30 seconds flat.

    City AM editor.

    Funny how Labour spend a week trying to trash the Tory £1.2tn message, then promptly introduce an additional £30bn pledge.

    They must reckon anyone who's going to vote for them can't remember state run telephone services.
    Well to be fair there's millions who now don't remember state run telephone services.

    They say what goes around comes around and I expect we will have to endure a spell of proper socialist government before much longer.

    Don't think it'll be this election but by 2030 we could see a true left wing government for the first time since the 1970s IMO.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    HYUFD said:
    Ignore that guy, he's a paid lobbyist for the opaque dark money "thinktank" Policy Exchange.
    https://www.transparify.org/
  • kle4 said:

    Has anybody commented on this General Election Nowcast (12th Nov) from Election Maps:

    CON: 367 (+4), 38.2% (-1.0)
    LAB: 195 (+6), 28.2% (+0.4)
    SNP: 46 (-4), 3.4% (+0.1)
    LDM: 19 (-6), 15.8% (-0.1)

    LibDems on 19???

    They need big swings to make gains of most targets. They never quite make that tipping point.
    We had big swings against us to lose them in the first place. If swings can go one way then they can go the other way too. Personally I think it's a lottery to try to predict how many Lib Dem seats there'll be. I think there'll be more than 19 for sure though. If you put a gun to my head and demanded a prediction I'd say between 25 and 45.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    kle4 said:

    Has anybody commented on this General Election Nowcast (12th Nov) from Election Maps:

    CON: 367 (+4), 38.2% (-1.0)
    LAB: 195 (+6), 28.2% (+0.4)
    SNP: 46 (-4), 3.4% (+0.1)
    LDM: 19 (-6), 15.8% (-0.1)

    LibDems on 19???

    They need big swings to make gains of most targets. They never quite make that tipping point.
    We had big swings against us to lose them in the first place. If swings can go one way then they can go the other way too. Personally I think it's a lottery to try to predict how many Lib Dem seats there'll be. I think there'll be more than 19 for sure though. If you put a gun to my head and demanded a prediction I'd say between 25 and 45.
    If the exit poll says no more than 15 seats for the Lib-Dems will you eat a hat? ;)
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614

    The Tories wish to play the 2015 austerity game but in reverse?

    "Why would I vote Tory for spending pledges when I can have the real thing with Labour".

    This election is backfiring.

    That's exactly my point! If you're going to bankrupt the country, base your economic model on Third World Venezuela and do it whole heartedly.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    People assume people care Labour is pledging to spend money. I don't think they do, at all.

    A month out and it's a 10 point gap. The manifesto is what closed the gap last time, it may well happen again.

    I don't think that's right. Labour started rising in the polls from virtually the moment Theresa May called the election.

    Con started falling when they unleashed their manifesto of horrors on the electorate. ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    Well he has an ex Labour MP behind him, does not look like many others https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1195055171992260608?s=20
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Long-Bailey & Pidcock, bringing socialised broadband to a town near you!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    AndyJS said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:


    Jason said:

    If Corbyn got into power, that's precisely what would happen. These fellas believe the Venezuelan economic model is more desirable than ours. So, mass starvation would be preferable to using food banks. Better for everyone to starve than just a few.
    Quite. Eliminate inequality by the simple expedient of making everybody without the means to emigrate dirt poor. HOWEVER...
    GIN1138 said:

    Why not free leccy and gas? I mean fuck it, tax at 85% and free utilities, basic weekly ration allowance, make us all completely dependent on the State

    Labour's gone mad.

    Anyone over the age to 30 will run a mile I'd have thought.
    e at least £1 per year higher than mine.')
    Except it is now clear they won't just be paid by other people but by the average voter

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1194956394287362048?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1195044471702016000?s=20
    Desperate fake news.

    Get some fooking policies
    eat of last time. Screams of confidence if that is true.
    When Thatcher won in 1983 she had few controversial policies in her manifesto, the Tories just hammered Labour on their manifesto, which Kaufman called 'the longest suicide note in history.' Boris seems to be following Mrs T's lead
    Heck of a gamble to assume now will play out like 1983. Should the Tories have done the same in 2010 or 2015 because it worked in 1983?

    That said, I wouldn't say it has no chance of succeeding. Roll on weekend polls, and post debate polls, to see if it is working.
    1983 was defined by the Falklands War the preceeding year. No other GE will ever be like 1983.
    How do you explain the fact that the Falklands was mentioned once during the BBC's 1983 election show which lasted for about 12 hours?
    You're (probably deliberately) missing the point.

    In early 1982 the Tories were polling around 30%, roughly neck and neck with Labour.

    After the Falklands the Tories never polled below 40% and occasionally polled over 50%. This continued right through to the 1983 GE.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1983_United_Kingdom_general_election#1982

    The Falklands war was a genuine black swan event that cuased a seismic political shift.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    kle4 said:

    Has anybody commented on this General Election Nowcast (12th Nov) from Election Maps:

    CON: 367 (+4), 38.2% (-1.0)
    LAB: 195 (+6), 28.2% (+0.4)
    SNP: 46 (-4), 3.4% (+0.1)
    LDM: 19 (-6), 15.8% (-0.1)

    LibDems on 19???

    They need big swings to make gains of most targets. They never quite make that tipping point.
    So no Prime Minister Jo Swinson then? But I got a leaflet and everything....
    Shocking innit?
    Their leaflets no more honest than the ones you’ve been delivering all day.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    AndyJS said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:


    Jason said:

    If Corbyn got into power, that's precisely what would happen. These fellas believe the Venezuelan economic model is more desirable than ours. So, mass starvation would be preferable to using food banks. Better for everyone to starve than just a few.
    Quite. Eliminate inequality by the simple expedient of making everybody without the means to emigrate dirt poor. HOWEVER...
    GIN1138 said:

    Why not free leccy and gas? I mean fuck it, tax at 85% and free utilities, basic weekly ration allowance, make us all completely dependent on the State

    Labour's gone mad.

    Anyone over the age to 30 will run a mile I'd have thought.
    e at least £1 per year higher than mine.')
    Except it is now clear they won't just be paid by other people but by the average voter

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1194956394287362048?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1195044471702016000?s=20
    Desperate fake news.

    Get some fooking policies
    eat of last time. Screams of confidence if that is true.
    When Thatcher won in 1983 shis seems to be following Mrs T's lead
    Heck of a gamble to assume now will play out like 1983. Should the Tories have done the same in 2010 or 2015 because it worked in 1983?

    That said, I wouldn't say it has no chance of succeeding. Roll on weekend polls, and post debate polls, to see if it is working.
    1983 was defined by the Falklands War the preceeding year. No other GE will ever be like 1983.
    How do you explain the fact that the Falklands was mentioned once during the BBC's 1983 election show which lasted for about 12 hours?
    You're (probably deliberately) missing the point.

    In early 1982 the Tories were polling around 30%, roughly neck and neck with Labour.

    After the Falklands the Tories never polled below 40% and occasionally polled over 50%. This continued right through to the 1983 GE.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1983_United_Kingdom_general_election#1982

    The Falklands war was a genuine black swan event that cuased a seismic political shift.
    The last pre Falklands Gallup poll there had the Tories on 35%, the Alliance on 33% and Labour on 30%, so the main movement was Alliance to the Tories not Labour to the Tories given the final result of Tories 42%, Labour 28%, Alliance 25%
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    GIN1138 said:

    People assume people care Labour is pledging to spend money. I don't think they do, at all.

    A month out and it's a 10 point gap. The manifesto is what closed the gap last time, it may well happen again.

    I don't think that's right. Labour started rising in the polls from virtually the moment Theresa May called the election.

    Con started falling when they unleashed their manifesto of horrors on the electorate. ;)
    The GE17 polling gap remained at 17-18% until 21 days out from the election, when it started close steadily day-by-day.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Jason said:

    The Tories wish to play the 2015 austerity game but in reverse?

    "Why would I vote Tory for spending pledges when I can have the real thing with Labour".

    This election is backfiring.

    That's exactly my point! If you're going to bankrupt the country, base your economic model on Third World Venezuela and do it whole heartedly.
    With a Brexit bonus of 350,000,000 a week the free broadband should be paid for in less than a year and a half
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    HYUFD said:
    Leavers, 2019/11/14, am: "Donald Tusk advocates stopping Brexit if Boris unelected! Outrageous interference in our sovereign affairs! Vote Conservative!"

    Leavers, 2019/11/14, pm: "Alexander Downer advises Australia will curb datasharing with UK if Corbyn elected! What a wise comment! Vote Conservative!"
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    People assume people care Labour is pledging to spend money. I don't think they do, at all.

    A month out and it's a 10 point gap. The manifesto is what closed the gap last time, it may well happen again.

    Two weeks - and we will know where we stand.

    Seemed to go down a treat for Ed Miliband in the debates.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:


    Jason said:

    Quite. Eliminate inequality by the simple expedient of making everybody without the means to emigrate dirt poor. HOWEVER...
    GIN1138 said:

    Why not free leccy and gas? I mean fuck it, tax at 85% and free utilities, basic weekly ration allowance, make us all completely dependent on the State

    Labour's gone mad.

    Anyone over the age to 30 will run a mile I'd have thought.
    e at least £1 per year higher than mine.')
    Except it is now clear they won't just be paid by other people but by the average voter

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1194956394287362048?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1195044471702016000?s=20
    Desperate fake news.

    Get some fooking policies
    eat of last time. Screams of confidence if that is true.
    When Thatcher won in 1983 shis seems to be following Mrs T's lead
    Heck of a gamble to assume now will play out like 1983. Should the Tories have done the same in 2010 or 2015 because it worked in 1983?

    That said, I wouldn't say it has no chance of succeeding. Roll on weekend polls, and post debate polls, to see if it is working.
    1983 was defined by the Falklands War the preceeding year. No other GE will ever be like 1983.
    How do you explain the fact that the Falklands was mentioned once during the BBC's 1983 election show which lasted for about 12 hours?
    You're (probably deliberately) missing the point.

    In early 1982 the Tories were polling around 30%, roughly neck and neck with Labour.

    After the Falklands the Tories never polled below 40% and occasionally polled over 50%. This continued right through to the 1983 GE.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1983_United_Kingdom_general_election#1982

    The Falklands war was a genuine black swan event that cuased a seismic political shift.
    The last pre Falklands Gallup poll there had the Tories on 35%, the Alliance on 33% and Labour on 30%, so the main movement was Alliance to the Tories not Labour to the Tories given the final result of Tories 42%, Labour 28%, Alliance 25%
    Whatever.

    My point was it was the Falklands that changed the polling dynamics for the 1983 GE.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Jason said:

    Long-Bailey & Pidcock, bringing socialised broadband to a town near you!

    Sorry I don't trust this lot with my fibre optics. :D
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    egg said:

    Jason said:

    Will the Tories actually announce any policies? I can't think of a single policy off the top of my head.

    Does anyone honestly think this election will be Brexit alone?

    I reckon most Labour folk would much rather it was about anything else than Brexit. Can't think why.
    The Tories will copy the broadband announcement. They have no choice. How do you answer the claim Only 10% of premises in the UK are connected to full-fibre broadband, in Japan it’s 97%? And Is that all it would cost £20B? So two years out of EU pays for it? And surely the benefit to business subtracts from the cost?

    The Tory’s should say, you’ve stolen our big idea! We were going to do that too! Don’t allow Labour this differential! Such differentials could sneak majority out of Tory hands.

    So that’s one interesting policy.
    You are missing the point. It isn't just the nationalization to massively expand the infrastructure. It is the fact they will be the sole provider of internet to the consumer across the country with a one sized fit all plan.

    Those comparing it to say a phone line, it isn't the same at all. Different folk have widely different requirements for how big the down and up pipe is, even among the consumer, let alone small businesses.
    Yeah I missed the point. So it’s like why Warren will lose to Trump with her socialised healthcare plan because voters she needs like the private plans they have and don’t want to give them up? This Labour gimmick sinks without trace in next few days because people like options and choice with their money power?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    How come ComRes has suddenly become SavantaComRes?
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    GIN1138 said:

    How come ComRes has suddenly become SavantaComRes?

    It was nationalised. For the people.
  • Turn away for a few hours, and when you come back you find Labour are promising another few tens of billions on another completely bonkers scheme. They are not even pretending to be sane.

    It's a novel approach. Perhaps it will work. (Of course, not 'work' as in 'prove workable', but 'work' as in con voters for a few weeks.)
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:


    Jason said:

    GIN1138 said:



    Anyone over the age to 30 will run a mile I'd have thought.
    e at least £1 per year higher than mine.')
    Except it is now clear they won't just be paid by other people but by the average voter

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1194956394287362048?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1195044471702016000?s=20
    Desperate fake news.

    Get some fooking policies
    eat of last time. Screams of confidence if that is true.
    When Thatcher won in 1983 shis seems to be following Mrs T's lead
    Heck of a gamble to assume now will play out like 1983. Should the Tories have done the same in 2010 or 2015 because it worked in 1983?

    That said, I wouldn't say it has no chance of succeeding. Roll on weekend polls, and post debate polls, to see if it is working.
    1983 was defined by the Falklands War the preceeding year. No other GE will ever be like 1983.
    How do you explain the fact that the Falklands was mentioned once during the BBC's 1983 election show which lasted for about 12 hours?
    You're (probably deliberately) missing the point.

    In early 1982 the Tories were polling around 30%, roughly neck and neck with Labour.

    After the Falklands the Tories never polled below 40% and occasionally polled over 50%. This continued right through to the 1983 GE.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1983_United_Kingdom_general_election#1982

    The Falklands war was a genuine black swan event that cuased a seismic political shift.
    The last pre Falklands Gallup poll there had the Tories on 35%, the Alliance on 33% and Labour on 30%, so the main movement was Alliance to the Tories not Labour to the Tories given the final result of Tories 42%, Labour 28%, Alliance 25%
    I don’t like it when you do this HY, this lump went from them to them, surely truth is more of a roundabout effect. I remember 83 very clearly, working class districts all around me went Thatcher. What were the headline policies in that manifesto, right to buy?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2019
    egg said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:


    Jason said:

    GIN1138 said:



    Anyone over the age to 30 will run a mile I'd have thought.
    e at least £1 per year higher than mine.')
    Except it is now clear they won't just be paid by other people but by the average voter

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1194956394287362048?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1195044471702016000?s=20
    Desperate fake news.

    Get some fooking policies
    eat of last time. Screams of confidence if that is true.
    When Thatcher won in 1983 shis seems to be following Mrs T's lead
    Heck of a gamble to assume now will play out like 1983. Should the Tories have done the same in 2010 or 2015 because it worked in 1983?

    That said, I wouldn't say it has no chance of succeeding. Roll on weekend polls, and post debate polls, to see if it is working.
    1983 was defined by the Falklands War the preceeding year. No other GE will ever be like 1983.
    How do you explain the fact that the Falklands was mentioned once during the BBC's 1983 election show which lasted for about 12 hours?
    You're (probably deliberately) missing the point.

    In early 1982 the Tories were polling around 30%, roughly neck and neck with Labour.

    After the Falklands the Tories never polled below 40% and occasionally polled over 50%. This continued right through to the 1983 GE.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1983_United_Kingdom_general_election#1982

    The Falklands war was a genuine black swan event that cuased a seismic political shift.
    The last pre Falklands Gallup poll there had the Tories on 35%, the Alliance on 33% and Labour on 30%, so the main movement was Alliance to the Tories not Labour to the Tories given the final result of Tories 42%, Labour 28%, Alliance 25%
    I don’t like it when you do this HY, this lump went from them to them, surely truth is more of a roundabout effect. I remember 83 very clearly, working class districts all around me went Thatcher. What were the headline policies in that manifesto, right to buy?
    The main issue in 1983 was Foot's unfitness to be PM, despite being a nice man personally.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Turn away for a few hours, and when you come back you find Labour are promising another few tens of billions on another completely bonkers scheme. They are not even pretending to be sane.

    It's a novel approach. Perhaps it will work. (Of course, not 'work' as in 'prove workable', but 'work' as in con voters for a few weeks.)

    2017 showed that a very large percentage of the electorate like the idea of free money, so it makes sense for Labour to try it again.
  • viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:
    Leavers, 2019/11/14, am: "Donald Tusk advocates stopping Brexit if Boris unelected! Outrageous interference in our sovereign affairs! Vote Conservative!"

    Leavers, 2019/11/14, pm: "Alexander Downer advises Australia will curb datasharing with UK if Corbyn elected! What a wise comment! Vote Conservative!"
    We learnt from you Remainers.
  • Labour having a 'mare all over the place:

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1195134233087553541

    I'm hazarding a guess that SLab weren't a close second here.

    https://twitter.com/C_CSmith1/status/1195135383123767297?s=20
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    This is interesting.

    Can anyone guess which document this is extracted from?


    "Telecommunications

    A national cable system will make possible a wide range of new telecommunications services, greater variety in the provision of television, and a major stimulus to British technology and industry. But it must be under firm public control. A publicly-owned British Telecommunications will thus be given the sole responsibility to create a national, broadband network (including Mercury, the new privately-owned telecommunications system for business), which integrates telecommunications and broadcasting."

    http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1983/1983-labour-manifesto.shtml
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    Labour having a 'mare all over the place:

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1195134233087553541

    Our new Labour spinner will be along shortly to tell us why that's actually good news for Labour. :D
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    Noo said:

    Again, Labour to Plaid is net zero. Lib Dem to Labour or vice versa is net zero.

    It's the marginals that matter.

    I love your username, by the way. I know the reference. I wonder how many people do, without googling.
    You are the first person to get it.
    Did you see him on his recent tour?
  • AndyJS said:

    Turn away for a few hours, and when you come back you find Labour are promising another few tens of billions on another completely bonkers scheme. They are not even pretending to be sane.

    It's a novel approach. Perhaps it will work. (Of course, not 'work' as in 'prove workable', but 'work' as in con voters for a few weeks.)

    2017 showed that a very large percentage of the electorate like the idea of free money, so it makes sense for Labour to try it again.
    That's probably their reasoning, but it makes two assumptions:

    1. That the Conservatives will let them get away with it unchallenged, as May did in 2017, and
    2. That Labour won't actually ever get into a position where they might have to attempt to deliver a modicum of the fantasy.

    Admittedly 2 is probably fairly safe, but 1 isn't.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    AndyJS said:

    This is interesting.

    Can anyone guess which document this is extracted from?


    "Telecommunications

    A national cable system will make possible a wide range of new telecommunications services, greater variety in the provision of television, and a major stimulus to British technology and industry. But it must be under firm public control. A publicly-owned British Telecommunications will thus be given the sole responsibility to create a national, broadband network (including Mercury, the new privately-owned telecommunications system for business), which integrates telecommunications and broadcasting."

    http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1983/1983-labour-manifesto.shtml

    LOL!
  • Labour having a 'mare all over the place:

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1195134233087553541

    I'm hazarding a guess that SLab weren't a close second here.

    https://twitter.com/C_CSmith1/status/1195135383123767297?s=20
    They do seem to have finished third, but have been absolutely spanked from the numbers I've just seen.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    AndyJS said:

    egg said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:


    Jason said:

    GIN1138 said:



    Anyone over the age to 30 will run a mile I'd have thought.
    e at least £1 per year higher than mine.')
    Except it is now clear they won't just be paid by other people but by the average voter

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1194956394287362048?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1195044471702016000?s=20
    Desperate fake news.

    Get some fooking policies
    eat of last time. Screams of confidence if that is true.
    When Thatcher won in 1983 shis seems to be following Mrs T's lead
    How do you explain the fact that the Falklands was mentioned once during the BBC's 1983 election show which lasted for about 12 hours?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1983_United_Kingdom_general_election#1982

    The Falklands war was a genuine black swan event that cuased a seismic political shift.
    The last pre Falklands Gallup poll there had the Tories on 35%, the Alliance on 33% and Labour on 30%, so the main movement was Alliance to the Tories not Labour to the Tories given the final result of Tories 42%, Labour 28%, Alliance 25%
    I don’t like it when you do this HY, this lump went from them to them, surely truth is more of a roundabout effect. I remember 83 very clearly, working class districts all around me went Thatcher. What were the headline policies in that manifesto, right to buy?
    The main issue in 1983 was Foot's unfitness to be PM, despite being a nice man personally.
    There was a lot going on. The Tory’s were excellent at tapping into the aspirations of the working class. What followed 83 was working class people buying their council house knocked down prices, a few Gas shares Too and started calling themselves middle class. And very much keeping the mindset to 2016 when they voted brexit.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Snp won that dunfermline seat at 5th stage by 2 votes! Squeaky bum stuff
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    This is interesting.

    Can anyone guess which document this is extracted from?


    "Telecommunications

    A national cable system will make possible a wide range of new telecommunications services, greater variety in the provision of television, and a major stimulus to British technology and industry. But it must be under firm public control. A publicly-owned British Telecommunications will thus be given the sole responsibility to create a national, broadband network (including Mercury, the new privately-owned telecommunications system for business), which integrates telecommunications and broadcasting."

    http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1983/1983-labour-manifesto.shtml

    LOL!
    Let’s hope they crossed the mercury bit out when they copied it.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    edited November 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    Labour having a 'mare all over the place:

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1195134233087553541

    Our new Labour spinner will be along shortly to tell us why that's actually good news for Labour. :D
    This is good news for Labour.

    Getting trounced in local elections in 2017 campaign is a lucky omen for them. Like not shaving till the cup run comes to an end etc.

    It clearly has nothing to do with what will happen on Dec 12 that is different as it’s 600 or so 2 horse races with tactical voting.
This discussion has been closed.