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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The GE2019 podcast from Keiran Pedley – now with Ipsos MORI

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  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    Labour gonna nationalise Openreach!

    Labour gonna nationalise Openreach!

    What they going to pay for that then?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,498
    Free broadband for all is a brilliant idea.

    Big but not ridiculous infrastructure investment, massive economic benefit.

    Let’s all wait to see Laura K’s take.
  • So Finchley & Golders Green just has three candidates to choose from. Tory peoples vote remainer, Luciana revoker for the Lib Dems and remainer Labour. 40% leave vote has no candidate to choose.
  • Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Conservative deputy party chair in Stourbridge quits over islamophobia. Says he reported the incident to CCHQ and nothing happened.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Supreme_Court_verdict_on_Ayodhya_dispute
    Mate. Your whataboutery is getting pretty weird.
    Mate. Just pointing out what Islamophobia is like in other countries...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    So Finchley & Golders Green just has three candidates to choose from. Tory peoples vote remainer, Luciana revoker for the Lib Dems and remainer Labour. 40% leave vote has no candidate to choose.

    What a shame.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,498

    Free fibre broadband for everyone.

    Great policy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited November 2019

    Free broadband for all is a brilliant idea.

    Big but not ridiculous infrastructure investment, massive economic benefit.

    Let’s all wait to see Laura K’s take.

    In 2030....after they have nationalized OpenReach and imploded the UK tech sector by imposing massive new taxation. Other than that, all good.

    So basically come 2030, the only way you will be able to get your home broadband is from the government, because Virgin etc are not going to offer it if they are being undercut by the government giving it away.
  • Are the DUP still under it?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Free fibre broadband for everyone.

    Solid plan.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    blueblue said:

    kle4 said:

    The risk of the head to head debate is raised in the podcast and I think it quite relevant. As it notes the Tories want to unite the leave vote and split the remain vote. I'm not sure cutting Swinson out and making the point it is Corbyn or Boris does the latter.

    The real risk of the head-to-head debate is that it turns into Corbyn doing moral outrage versus Johnson being an incoherent, bumbling, waffling dolt. The former manages to land a couple of sharp rhetorical blows on the latter (about the NHS, the Grenfell Tower, the floods, whatever) and any Labour Leavers who haven't already gone home have the excuse they've been subconsciously craving to do so.
    To play devil's advocate for a moment, what if Boris goes for the jugular on all the Corbyn weak spots that the lefty media is too polite to press him on? His support for every anti-Western, anti-British group in the world, his wealth taxes on the middle class, his support for open borders, the cowardice of a supposed "principled" man who's lying about his consistent oppposition to EU membership for the last 40 years...

    All I'm saying is that the body blows won't all be one way!
    Sure, it's possiblomething deserving?
    Corbyn's got his buttons for his Mr Angry setting. I'm sure Boris knows these. As does Cummings,

    I'm not saying he will but time and again it's forgotten - Boris is a performer. Why it's assumed it's his weak link I have no idea.The debates aren't really debates. No one learns anything new from them. They're just circuses,
    Corbyn's biggest button seems to be media questioning, sadly not available for Boris. As for why Boris performing is assumed to be his weak link, it is and it isn't. I think like a lot of people a strength can be a weakness in different situations. Boris is personable, relatively funny and charming, but is he great at nailing an opponent with a serious line, can he persuade on a serious point?

    For my part the reason I think Boris is more at risk in the debate is for one he is encouraging the uniting of the remain vote behind Labour, for two he has more to lose from it as he is higher rated than Corbyn, and for three, he is a waffler. He goes on and on, and in circles to boot. It can be very entertaining, but it can be a bit difficult to follow. It is, as you say, a performance. Corbyn by contrast can stick to very simple messages, delivered with what appears as burning sincerity. On complex issues of governance, Boris needing to defend complex issues of of governance, Corbyn just has to be simple and direct.

    He may not pull it off well enough. But it's an easier job.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    So free fibre and a nationalised phone service?
  • Four weeks to save the NHS/Boris/Jezza/Jo/Nige :lol:
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Floater said:

    I stand by a Hung Parliament.

    Within two weeks, if Labour is within 5 points on average, I think it is squeeky bum time.

    Someone disagrees

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/11/14/labour-brink-seismic-wipeout-british-election-history/
    There is no chance of a Labour collapse (except in Scotland.) I wish there was, but there isn't.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    So Finchley & Golders Green just has three candidates to choose from. Tory peoples vote remainer, Luciana revoker for the Lib Dems and remainer Labour. 40% leave vote has no candidate to choose.

    Labour through the middle?
  • So 4 weeks to go
    Polling Headlines so far

    Tories - up a bit - hitting 40% with multiple pollsters
    Labour - up a bit more - hitting 30% with most pollsters or nearly (You Gov continue to have them very depressed)
    Lib Dems - down a bit - around 15%

    The main feature of 2017 was Tory to Labour peelers in the last couple of weeks of the campaign - not sure there will be too much of that this time with much more entrenched positions.

    Don't think the Lib Dems and Greens have done themselves any favours with the Remain alliance - will be surprised if the strategy yields a single seat.

    The most interesting is that the pollsters have converged a bit from wildly differing positions before the campaign. This was explained as methodology difference due to previous voting patterns. Perhaps the collective amnesia that was being shown by survey takers about there past voting has started to wear off.
  • RobD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    So free fibre and a nationalised phone service?
    it's full fibre, no line rental included (!)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Labour gonna nationalise Openreach!

    Labour gonna nationalise Openreach!

    What they going to pay for that then?
    Doesn't matter as rich people will foot the bill.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited November 2019
    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    When you think how many people have shares and penions tied up in BT! :open_mouth:
  • Free fibre broadband for everyone.

    Great policy.
    Do you think the EU are going to sign off on that?????
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Free fibre broadband for everyone.

    Great policy.
    Do you think the EU are going to sign off on that?????
    Jezza is a leaver at heart. :)
  • kle4 said:

    So Finchley & Golders Green just has three candidates to choose from. Tory peoples vote remainer, Luciana revoker for the Lib Dems and remainer Labour. 40% leave vote has no candidate to choose.

    Labour through the middle?
    In JJ town, not likely
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Are the DUP still under it?
    No one cares enough about them to check.

    Except Kate Hoey I suppose.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    At least we shall have a limitless supply of cat videos to keep us entertained when we're all on the dole.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    RobD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    So free fibre and a nationalised phone service?
    We are going to need a bigger magic money tree
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,498
    edited November 2019
    Alistair said:

    Free fibre broadband for everyone.

    Solid plan.
    Very, very good idea. And deliverable. The PB Tories will now go into sophistry about paying for it, forgetting that their anti European isolationism costs a fucking fortune. Telephones for all yesterday = broadband for all today. Great, great idea.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Nationalising broadband? Just why?

    Bizarre policy and Orwellian.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    GIN1138 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    When you think how many people have shares and penions tied up in BT! :open_mouth:
    Anyone whose pension is tied up in BT shares needs to take some financial advice.
  • Free fibre broadband for everyone.

    Great policy.
    Nope really stupid. People want choice when it comes to consumer items like Broadband. Tell them it is the Government version or nothing (which is what this will mean) and they will run a mile.
  • dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    On the night it is reported that BT Sports have obtained the rights to the Champions League football from 2021 to 2024 for north of £1.2 billion.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited November 2019

    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    At least we shall have a limitless supply of cat videos to keep us entertained when we're all on the dole.
    When / if it works....probably only between 9pm-6am and with heavily throttled bandwidth.
  • dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    At least we shall have a limitless supply of cat videos to keep us entertained when we're all on the dole.
    The electricity will be off, don't you remember the 70s?
  • Free fibre broadband for everyone.

    Great policy.
    Do you think the EU are going to sign off on that?????
    Boris will have to be careful not to be outflanked on national security grounds. “Labour wants the british public to own our broadband and 5G infrastructure. The Tories want to sell it to the Chinese, even though they’ve been warned of the risk”.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Labour are just trying to solidify their base to keep the left in control. They have no hope of victory with policies like these.

    The plan is just to keep control of the party until the country (apparently) eventually elects another Labour government.

    Will it work? Who knows.
  • Noo said:

    Noo said:

    I’m wobbling on voting Labour again. Not sure if I can do it.

    What are your policy priorities?
    Remaining in the EU
    Proportional Representation
    Avoiding a recession
    It sounds like an obvious Lib Dem vote to me. What's preventing you?
    Theres a zero chance of Lib Dems winning my currently Labour (Remainer, not a Corbynista) held seat and a small chance of the Tories winning it through the middle.
    The Tory candidate lives in Bedford for christ sake.

    https://twitter.com/catmckinnell/status/1195091807702519808?s=21
    Somewhat strange to put up a paper candidate in Newcastle North when Electoral Calculus predicts the Tories being only 2,000 votes behind Lab on current polls.
    In the event of a blue tidal wave on a scale big enough to sweep Newcastle North, the qualities of individual candidates are hardly going to matter.

    But Newcastle North is not going to go blue. So the qualities of the individual candidate are hardly going to matter.
    Mark Lehain is a longish way from a paper candidate; he's been a been a big cheese in Free Schools for a long time. Odd to see him in a seat which, even if he were to win this time, he'd almost certainly be doomed next time.
  • kle4 said:

    Are the DUP still under it?
    No one cares enough about them to check.

    Except Kate Hoey I suppose.
    And Sammy Samuel? :lol:
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,498
    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    Superb policy. Get broadband to everyone to bolster the economy. Brilliant stuff.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Nationalising broadband? Just why?

    Bizarre policy and Orwellian.

    I imagine the intent is indicate Labour regard broadband as a key utility like water and electricity, which is best kept out of the hands of rapacious private companies who treat you like crap. Whatever the merits or not of nationalising various utlilities, its generally not an unpopular policy, and a lot of people think their broadband service is crap and I'd think won't dislike the suggestion. Plus compared to other cash splurges it doesn't even sound like a lot.
  • Guido

    Free broadband for everyone. Nationalise BT. A communist internet connection. It will be as fast as a Lada.
  • Remember part nationalising BT means you're part nationalising the UK's largest mobile operator, EE.
  • dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    Surely we're well past the point at which this just looks absurd? Free owls was a more credible policy offering.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Free fibre broadband for everyone.

    Great policy.
    Nope really stupid. People want choice when it comes to consumer items like Broadband. Tell them it is the Government version or nothing (which is what this will mean) and they will run a mile.
    But the choice is an illusion is it not? You are either using Virgin lines or OpenReach.

    Not that I don’t think this is a silly policy.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    Superb policy. Get broadband to everyone to bolster the economy. Brilliant stuff.
    But why state run? I can understand rolling out the fibre infrastructure, but why should the government be running the only ISP in the country?
  • kle4 said:

    The risk of the head to head debate is raised in the podcast and I think it quite relevant. As it notes the Tories want to unite the leave vote and split the remain vote. I'm not sure cutting Swinson out and making the point it is Corbyn or Boris does the latter.

    There's a possible court case pending.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    On the night it is reported that BT Sports have obtained the rights to the Champions League football from 2021 to 2024 for north of £1.2 billion.
    Yep the government will soon be paying for professional football. Genius.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kle4 said:

    So Finchley & Golders Green just has three candidates to choose from. Tory peoples vote remainer, Luciana revoker for the Lib Dems and remainer Labour. 40% leave vote has no candidate to choose.

    Labour through the middle?
    Leave voters back the Tory, Remain voters peel off heavily from Labour to Lib Dem due largely to anti-Semitism issue.

    Con hold?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    Surely we're well past the point at which this just looks absurd? Free owls was a more credible policy offering.
    We're well past absurdity being a problem.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    Nationalising broadband? Just why?

    Bizarre policy and Orwellian.

    To give everyone free fibre broadband.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,498

    Free broadband for all is a brilliant idea.

    Big but not ridiculous infrastructure investment, massive economic benefit.

    Let’s all wait to see Laura K’s take.

    In 2030....after they have nationalized OpenReach and imploded the UK tech sector by imposing massive new taxation. Other than that, all good.

    So basically come 2030, the only way you will be able to get your home broadband is from the government, because Virgin etc are not going to offer it if they are being undercut by the government giving it away.
    Broadband for all would be a massive boost for the tech sector, as you know. You are usually refreshingly non-partisan. Wake up.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Mr McDonnell said that if other broadband providers did not want to give access to the new entity, British Broadband, then they would also be taken into public ownership.

    Nice.
  • Free fibre broadband for everyone.

    Great policy.
    Nope really stupid. People want choice when it comes to consumer items like Broadband. Tell them it is the Government version or nothing (which is what this will mean) and they will run a mile.
    Exactly, people have hugely different needs. I work from home, do machine learning in the cloud etc, so I need as fast as possible speed. BT's crap offering isn't good enough for me. No other company will be in business if Labour have their way.

    But even from a regular home user, one person on their own can live with 10-20 gb speeds, if you have 2 adults, 2 kids, it is unlikely to be enough these days.
  • To be paid for by Tech Firm taxation - have to wait a lot of years for the tax that Google and Facebook pay to save up £20B
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Guido

    Free broadband for everyone. Nationalise BT. A communist internet connection. It will be as fast as a Lada.

    Guido is out of date with his Communist insults.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    kle4 said:

    The risk of the head to head debate is raised in the podcast and I think it quite relevant. As it notes the Tories want to unite the leave vote and split the remain vote. I'm not sure cutting Swinson out and making the point it is Corbyn or Boris does the latter.

    There's a possible court case pending.
    What is happening with the court case? I can’t find much information about it.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    kle4 said:

    Nationalising broadband? Just why?

    Bizarre policy and Orwellian.

    I imagine the intent is indicate Labour regard broadband as a key utility like water and electricity, which is best kept out of the hands of rapacious private companies who treat you like crap. Whatever the merits or not of nationalising various utlilities, its generally not an unpopular policy, and a lot of people think their broadband service is crap and I'd think won't dislike the suggestion. Plus compared to other cash splurges it doesn't even sound like a lot.
    Nationalising trains might be popular. Anything tech related I can't see it being popular myself.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    glw said:

    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    On the night it is reported that BT Sports have obtained the rights to the Champions League football from 2021 to 2024 for north of £1.2 billion.
    Yep the government will soon be paying for professional football. Genius.
    But will HMRC lose on Penalties?
  • I think there is a real risk Labour is entering into “I don’t believe you, this isn’t all possible” territory.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,498
    Jonathan said:

    Guido

    Free broadband for everyone. Nationalise BT. A communist internet connection. It will be as fast as a Lada.

    Guido is out of date with his Communist insults.
    Guido is rattled. Very, very good policymaking from Labour.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Presumably if/when everyone starts protesting against the government (as they inevitably will when it all goes tits up) we'll find our broadband is cut off by the government who are controlling it?
  • Remember part nationalising BT means you're part nationalising the UK's largest mobile operator, EE.

    Kevin Bacon will be appalled!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    The risk of the head to head debate is raised in the podcast and I think it quite relevant. As it notes the Tories want to unite the leave vote and split the remain vote. I'm not sure cutting Swinson out and making the point it is Corbyn or Boris does the latter.

    There's a possible court case pending.
    Be funny if the courts said the broadcasters cannot cut Swinson out, and in response the broadcasters said no debates at all then. Not like they are required.

    Not that I'd expect them to act so.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    RobD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    Superb policy. Get broadband to everyone to bolster the economy. Brilliant stuff.
    But why state run? I can understand rolling out the fibre infrastructure, but why should the government be running the only ISP in the country?
    So that content with which it disagrees can be made to magically disappear?
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    Jonathan said:

    Guido

    Free broadband for everyone. Nationalise BT. A communist internet connection. It will be as fast as a Lada.

    Guido is out of date with his Communist insults.
    Guido is rattled. Very, very good policymaking from Labour.
    Nationalizig everything? Are you actually a communist?
  • Remember part nationalising BT means you're part nationalising the UK's largest mobile operator, EE.

    Kevin Bacon will be appalled!
    No it doesn't.

    Openreach is already legally seperate from BT. They won't touch EE.
  • Here's 86 pages on why government investment in broadband capability must focus on services the market fails to deliver, if it is to avoid distorting the existing broadband market

    https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/sources/conferences/state-aid/broadband_rulesexplained.pdf

    Of particular note is Corbyn's suggest that not only will infrastructure (the Openreach bit) be nationalised - that's the bit where competition is limited - but also the sale to the consumer (with reasonable competition).
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,498

    To be paid for by Tech Firm taxation - have to wait a lot of years for the tax that Google and Facebook pay to save up £20B

    Short term pain for long term gain.

    AKA investment.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited November 2019

    Free broadband for all is a brilliant idea.

    Big but not ridiculous infrastructure investment, massive economic benefit.

    Let’s all wait to see Laura K’s take.

    In 2030....after they have nationalized OpenReach and imploded the UK tech sector by imposing massive new taxation. Other than that, all good.

    So basically come 2030, the only way you will be able to get your home broadband is from the government, because Virgin etc are not going to offer it if they are being undercut by the government giving it away.
    Broadband for all would be a massive boost for the tech sector, as you know. You are usually refreshingly non-partisan. Wake up.
    On this you are just wrong. I can't operate my business from home on the crap BT offers. With the Commie Cable Co , one size fits all, that model just won't work.

    It will be fine for the massive companies as they hook directly into the backbone infrastructure and pay through the nose for that. For smaller companies, they rely on the options out there. There will be no consumer / prosumer option other than Commie Cable.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,570
    edited November 2019

    Free fibre broadband for everyone.

    Great policy.
    Nope really stupid. People want choice when it comes to consumer items like Broadband. Tell them it is the Government version or nothing (which is what this will mean) and they will run a mile.
    But the choice is an illusion is it not? You are either using Virgin lines or OpenReach.

    Not that I don’t think this is a silly policy.
    No because whoever's lines are being used by your provider, they fight on your behalf for a better service. So where I live Openreach provide all the lines but the difference in service between the various companies is huge. The best example of this is EE and BT. The BT service is absolutely dire but the EE service is brilliant. And yet they have been the same company for the last couple of years.

    The competition matters even when they are using the same basic infrastructure.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917

    I think there is a real risk Labour is entering into “I don’t believe you, this isn’t all possible” territory.

    They arguably did that with the four day week.

    Since then it's been free unicorns every day.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    Nationalising broadband? Just why?

    Bizarre policy and Orwellian.

    To give everyone free fibre broadband.
    If people believe that you can make verything "free" by nationalizing it, then we have indeed passed the point of insanity.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    Free broadband for all is a brilliant idea.

    Big but not ridiculous infrastructure investment, massive economic benefit.

    Let’s all wait to see Laura K’s take.

    In 2030....after they have nationalized OpenReach and imploded the UK tech sector by imposing massive new taxation. Other than that, all good.

    So basically come 2030, the only way you will be able to get your home broadband is from the government, because Virgin etc are not going to offer it if they are being undercut by the government giving it away.
    Broadband for all would be a massive boost for the tech sector, as you know. You are usually refreshingly non-partisan. Wake up.
    On this you are just wrong. I can't operate my business from home on the crap BT offers. With the Commie Cable Co , one size fits all, it just won't work.
    Commie Cable Company :smiley:
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,498
    blueblue said:

    Jonathan said:

    Guido

    Free broadband for everyone. Nationalise BT. A communist internet connection. It will be as fast as a Lada.

    Guido is out of date with his Communist insults.
    Guido is rattled. Very, very good policymaking from Labour.
    Nationalizig everything? Are you actually a communist?
    Your spelling suggests you could benefit from a good state education!

    No, I’m not even a socialist.

    But this policy is very strong.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    Nationalising broadband? Just why?

    Bizarre policy and Orwellian.

    I imagine the intent is indicate Labour regard broadband as a key utility like water and electricity, which is best kept out of the hands of rapacious private companies who treat you like crap. Whatever the merits or not of nationalising various utlilities, its generally not an unpopular policy, and a lot of people think their broadband service is crap and I'd think won't dislike the suggestion. Plus compared to other cash splurges it doesn't even sound like a lot.
    Nationalising trains might be popular. Anything tech related I can't see it being popular myself.
    I'm 50/50. The reasons I outlined is why I think they assume it might be popular enough, but it's a fair point that even with internet access being so vital for many things now, equating broadband with water and electricity might be trickier than they think.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,498
    Jonathan said:

    This broadband policy is all talk talk.

    Lol!
  • Remember part nationalising BT means you're part nationalising the UK's largest mobile operator, EE.

    Kevin Bacon will be appalled!
    No it doesn't.

    Openreach is already legally seperate from BT. They won't touch EE.
    Presumably BT - the actual BT - will be forced to drop its broadband offering, so, er, definitely an effect on EE...
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Alistair said:

    Free fibre broadband for everyone.

    Solid plan.
    Very, very good idea. And deliverable. The PB Tories will now go into sophistry about paying for it, forgetting that their anti European isolationism costs a fucking fortune. Telephones for all yesterday = broadband for all today. Great, great idea.

    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    At least we shall have a limitless supply of cat videos to keep us entertained when we're all on the dole.
    When / if it works....probably only between 9pm-6am and with heavily throttled bandwidth.
    And only 3 months wait to get a new line installed, like in the glory days of the dear old GPO.
  • kle4 said:

    Nationalising broadband? Just why?

    Bizarre policy and Orwellian.

    I imagine the intent is indicate Labour regard broadband as a key utility like water and electricity, which is best kept out of the hands of rapacious private companies who treat you like crap. Whatever the merits or not of nationalising various utlilities, its generally not an unpopular policy, and a lot of people think their broadband service is crap and I'd think won't dislike the suggestion. Plus compared to other cash splurges it doesn't even sound like a lot.
    I am pretty sure nationalised companies will be much better at treating you like crap when they have no competition for you to run off to.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696

    Free broadband for all is a brilliant idea.

    Big but not ridiculous infrastructure investment, massive economic benefit.

    Let’s all wait to see Laura K’s take.

    In 2030....after they have nationalized OpenReach and imploded the UK tech sector by imposing massive new taxation. Other than that, all good.

    So basically come 2030, the only way you will be able to get your home broadband is from the government, because Virgin etc are not going to offer it if they are being undercut by the government giving it away.
    Broadband for all would be a massive boost for the tech sector, as you know. You are usually refreshingly non-partisan. Wake up.
    On this you are just wrong. I can't operate my business from home on the crap BT offers. With the Commie Cable Co , one size fits all, that model just won't work.

    It will be fine for the massive companies as they hook directly into the backbone infrastructure and pay through the nose for that. For smaller companies, they rely on the options out there. There will be no consumer / prosumer option other than Commie Cable.
    You've no real argument against it, you just don't like it.
  • Remember part nationalising BT means you're part nationalising the UK's largest mobile operator, EE.

    Kevin Bacon will be appalled!
    No it doesn't.

    Openreach is already legally seperate from BT. They won't touch EE.
    Presumably BT - the actual BT - will be forced to drop its broadband offering, so, er, definitely an effect on EE...
    Where does it say that?

    BT will be able to compete as they do today, they'll just have to use the infrastructure right now they charge everyone else to use. Seems a lot fairer to me.
  • Free broadband for all is a brilliant idea.

    Big but not ridiculous infrastructure investment, massive economic benefit.

    Let’s all wait to see Laura K’s take.

    In 2030....after they have nationalized OpenReach and imploded the UK tech sector by imposing massive new taxation. Other than that, all good.

    So basically come 2030, the only way you will be able to get your home broadband is from the government, because Virgin etc are not going to offer it if they are being undercut by the government giving it away.
    Broadband for all would be a massive boost for the tech sector, as you know. You are usually refreshingly non-partisan. Wake up.
    On this you are just wrong. I can't operate my business from home on the crap BT offers. With the Commie Cable Co , one size fits all, it just won't work.
    Commie Cable Company :smiley:
    Corbyn's Commie Cable Partnership = CCCP :)
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191

    tyson said:

    This may break the internet.

    twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1195086291660156938?s=19

    This is more of this kiwi shit posting stuff right?
    The social media gurus the Tories have hired this time know *exactly* what they're doing.

    Very clever.
    And Carrie canvassing with Dilyn adds to the gaiety

    And then Boris, Carrie and Dilyn out canvassing together

    Add in the PPB online hit, there is someone very clever at work in no10
    Big G.....for someone who was critical of Boris, you really have turned into his biggest sycophant...

    What changed?
    He is the only way forward - he will take us out and move on. His domestic agenda is also fine by me and as long as Corbyn is around I will support whoever is best placed to see him lose

    Surely you are not so naive that you think we’ll enter the transition period and then we’ll all simply forget about Brexit and move on? Brexit is a process and it will dominate for the next 10 years at least.

    There is no moving on.
    Depends how much, having got the act of leaving the EU out of the way, the public wants to obsess about the minutiae of trade negotiations - rather than moving on and doing their best to forget the whole sordid business.

    For a surprising number of people, there is life beyond leaveremainleaveremainleaveremainleaveremainleave...
    Spot on
    I think you underestimate the tendency of a lot of people (and especially the English newspapers) to blame foreigners for everything.

    Sure it won't be people obsessing about the minutiae of trade negotiations. It will be "outrage" at Britain still sending "350 million a week" to the EU, even after the UK has left. It will be "anger" at any attempt to extend the transition period, even when that is the only sensible thing to do. It will be people complaining about having to follow rules made by foreigners.

    And there are powerful interests who want this grievance to continue, and absolutely don't want the UK and the EU to have a close friendly relationship. Johnson is the worst person to be leading the country at this time because he is quite happy to ally himself with those interests if it helps him to become prime minister or win a general election.
  • .

    Remember part nationalising BT means you're part nationalising the UK's largest mobile operator, EE.

    Kevin Bacon will be appalled!
    No it doesn't.

    Openreach is already legally seperate from BT. They won't touch EE.
    Presumably BT - the actual BT - will be forced to drop its broadband offering, so, er, definitely an effect on EE...
    EE also provide Broadband, as do Plusnet, also owned by BT.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    kle4 said:

    Nationalising broadband? Just why?

    Bizarre policy and Orwellian.

    I imagine the intent is indicate Labour regard broadband as a key utility like water and electricity, which is best kept out of the hands of rapacious private companies who treat you like crap. Whatever the merits or not of nationalising various utlilities, its generally not an unpopular policy, and a lot of people think their broadband service is crap and I'd think won't dislike the suggestion. Plus compared to other cash splurges it doesn't even sound like a lot.
    I am pretty sure nationalised companies will be much better at treating you like crap when they have no competition for you to run off to.
    You speak as if broadband isn’t mostly shite.
  • Can I remind people that it is Government money that means we have majority FTTC coverage at all? BT didn't invest that money, we did.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    Remember part nationalising BT means you're part nationalising the UK's largest mobile operator, EE.

    Kevin Bacon will be appalled!
    No it doesn't.

    Openreach is already legally seperate from BT. They won't touch EE.
    Presumably BT - the actual BT - will be forced to drop its broadband offering, so, er, definitely an effect on EE...
    Where does it say that?

    BT will be able to compete as they do today, they'll just have to use the infrastructure right now they charge everyone else to use. Seems a lot fairer to me.
    Oh you really don't remember the GPO do you? How sweet.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    I think there is a real risk Labour is entering into “I don’t believe you, this isn’t all possible” territory.

    They arguably did that with the four day week.

    Since then it's been free unicorns every day.
    It has felt a bit much. I assume it's intended to make the campaign overall a positive one, and so not be able to be accused of just ranting about the evil Tories the whole time. Not that they would not have had giveaways anyway, but they're really hammering it home to make it stick.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    blueblue said:

    Jonathan said:

    Guido

    Free broadband for everyone. Nationalise BT. A communist internet connection. It will be as fast as a Lada.

    Guido is out of date with his Communist insults.
    Guido is rattled. Very, very good policymaking from Labour.
    Nationalizig everything? Are you actually a communist?
    I'm fairly sure I joked back in 2017 that the logical conclusion of Labour's nationalisation arguments was that eventually everything would be nationalised, and I'm may even have suggested that BT was in the firing line.
  • After almost 10 years of austerity politics, I'm enjoying the 'batshit crazy public spending pledges' election.

    Will the debate just be Boz v Jez riffing on what they're going to give away?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    I think there is a real risk Labour is entering into “I don’t believe you, this isn’t all possible” territory.

    Alternatively, they may have twigged that bribing folk with "free" everything could be really popular.

    Free absolutely everything, paid for magically by the "1%", whom, as we all know, have literally infinite supplies of money that they are cruelly and greedily hiding from the people.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    edited November 2019

    Free fibre broadband for everyone.

    Great policy.
    Nope really stupid. People want choice when it comes to consumer items like Broadband. Tell them it is the Government version or nothing (which is what this will mean) and they will run a mile.
    But the choice is an illusion is it not? You are either using Virgin lines or OpenReach.

    Not that I don’t think this is a silly policy.
    No because whoever's lines are being used by your provider, they fight on your behalf for a better service. So where I live Openreach provide all the lines but the difference in service between the various companies is huge. The best example of this is EE and BT. The BT service is absolutely dire but the EE service is brilliant. And yet they have been the same company for the last couple of years.

    The competition matters even when they are using the same basic infrastructure.
    "And yet they have been the same company for the last couple of years."

    You've defeated your own argument there.
  • Remember part nationalising BT means you're part nationalising the UK's largest mobile operator, EE.

    Kevin Bacon will be appalled!
    No it doesn't.

    Openreach is already legally seperate from BT. They won't touch EE.
    Presumably BT - the actual BT - will be forced to drop its broadband offering, so, er, definitely an effect on EE...
    Where does it say that?

    BT will be able to compete as they do today, they'll just have to use the infrastructure right now they charge everyone else to use. Seems a lot fairer to me.
    Under the proposals, we all get free broadband.

    I'm not sure if existing providers would bid, or something, to run the connections, but they would not longer be paid for by the customer which would be an enormous change to the business model.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    maaarsh said:

    It's certainly fair to say it's a Napoleonic code based organisation, rather than a common law organisation

    The civil law/common law distinction doesn't apply to organisations.



  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited November 2019

    Free broadband for all is a brilliant idea.

    Big but not ridiculous infrastructure investment, massive economic benefit.

    Let’s all wait to see Laura K’s take.

    In 2030....after they have nationalized OpenReach and imploded the UK tech sector by imposing massive new taxation. Other than that, all good.

    So basically come 2030, the only way you will be able to get your home broadband is from the government, because Virgin etc are not going to offer it if they are being undercut by the government giving it away.
    Broadband for all would be a massive boost for the tech sector, as you know. You are usually refreshingly non-partisan. Wake up.
    On this you are just wrong. I can't operate my business from home on the crap BT offers. With the Commie Cable Co , one size fits all, that model just won't work.

    It will be fine for the massive companies as they hook directly into the backbone infrastructure and pay through the nose for that. For smaller companies, they rely on the options out there. There will be no consumer / prosumer option other than Commie Cable.
    You've no real argument against it, you just don't like it.
    I have given you my argument. Different folks have wildly different broadband needs. The Commie Cable Co will offer you one option, that's it. As its free, there will be no other business in the market other than for provision to the big companies.

    It is insanity. And there is no way I could operate my business with it.

    If they had said they will offer the poor free broadband credit or whatever, ok, I get that. I actually think that is would be a positive policy.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Remember part nationalising BT means you're part nationalising the UK's largest mobile operator, EE.

    Kevin Bacon will be appalled!
    No it doesn't.

    Openreach is already legally seperate from BT. They won't touch EE.
    Presumably BT - the actual BT - will be forced to drop its broadband offering, so, er, definitely an effect on EE...
    Where does it say that?

    BT will be able to compete as they do today, they'll just have to use the infrastructure right now they charge everyone else to use. Seems a lot fairer to me.
    Oh you really don't remember the GPO do you? How sweet.
    Broadband provided by GPO was definitely slower.
  • I think there is a real risk Labour is entering into “I don’t believe you, this isn’t all possible” territory.

    They arguably did that with the four day week.

    Since then it's been free unicorns every day.
    If people start to think it, it’s quite a good attack line for the Tories (and LibDems). “You can promise the world because you know you won’t win”. Opens up a LibDem line of “Labour is a joke, just like the Givermment, vote for us to put an adult in the room”.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,498
    RobD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    Superb policy. Get broadband to everyone to bolster the economy. Brilliant stuff.
    But why state run? I can understand rolling out the fibre infrastructure, but why should the government be running the only ISP in the country?
    The idea is it’s free. Do you remember when the idea that the state provided everyone with a telephone line was considered dangerously socialist?
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    RobD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    McDonnell's added another target to nationalise.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1195099753060671488

    Superb policy. Get broadband to everyone to bolster the economy. Brilliant stuff.
    But why state run? I can understand rolling out the fibre infrastructure, but why should the government be running the only ISP in the country?
    It's a natural monopoly. Disraeli nationised the telegraph wires for much the same reasons. Spending money on triplicate cables in cities when 5% of the country has < 5 Mb/s doesn't make sense, although IMO there should be a separate regulator even if it's state-owned again.

    The Lords recommended something similar in 2012, a universal broadband service, much as we got a nearly universal telephone service by I think the early 70s. It's not exactly a novel idea.
This discussion has been closed.