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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236

    Have fun! After initial nervousness ("Will people ask me about our policy on sperm whales?") it becomes unscary and quite satisfying. Will be interesting to hear your impressions.

    :smile:
    Thank you!

    It will be a great test of whether what I keep saying on here - that the Brexit policy is actually very easy to understand - is in practice true.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,489
    geoffw said:

    Anyone know who is behind this twitter account?

    https://twitter.com/326Pols/status/1191756161596493829?s=20

    Dunno, but spookily you asked that at precisely 3:26PM.
    👀
  • johntjohnt Posts: 166
    kinabalu said:

    SunnyJim said:

    How big a pool of voters do you think there are who would vote for an ambiguous Brexit strategy?

    I can't think of many people I have met recently who have said they have no idea what we should do about Brexit and if only there was a party who were equally confused that they could vote for.

    People will be voting for Labour despite their Brexit policy not because of it.

    I will pitch it as below -

    If you want to stop Brexit you need Ref2. Labour is the party offering that. Ergo, vote Labour for a chance - the ONLY chance - to stop Brexit.

    I'm confident that most voters I meet will grasp it. If they can't, even after my efforts, I will just drop it and switch the subject to something more on their level, such as do they like Jeremy's beard.
    The problem with that approach is it is two years out of date. Labour should have insisted on a referendum on May's deal 18 months ago. That was the time when it should have been called. But actually they refused to get off the fence and the Tories managed to lose their majority and build the rhetoric that the way to break the Brexit impasse is to have a general election.

    Having agreed to that approach I personally see no need to have Ref2 to stop Brexit. Parties stand on a manifesto to form a government and the winner implements that manifesto. So if a party was to stand on a manifesto to revoke and win the election (which was called to break the Brexit impasse) then they can just revoke and we can all move on.

    Personally while I am not opposed to Labour's position on a question of principle it is, in my view, two years too late.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    camel said:

    Jeremy in Crewe. Labour seat (albeit majority of 46).

    Rather less ambitious than lovely Jo.

    Oh, Mr Porter
    What can I do?
    I want to go to Downing Street
    And they sent me off to Crewe!
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    TOPPING said:


    Please do not remind me, even tangentially, of that disgusting petrified shark in Iceland (the country).

    Taste? Texture? Cost? Accompaniments?

    Don't leave us hanging.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited November 2019
    johnt said:

    kinabalu said:

    SunnyJim said:

    How big a pool of voters do you think there are who would vote for an ambiguous Brexit strategy?

    I can't think of many people I have met recently who have said they have no idea what we should do about Brexit and if only there was a party who were equally confused that they could vote for.

    People will be voting for Labour despite their Brexit policy not because of it.

    I will pitch it as below -

    If you want to stop Brexit you need Ref2. Labour is the party offering that. Ergo, vote Labour for a chance - the ONLY chance - to stop Brexit.

    I'm confident that most voters I meet will grasp it. If they can't, even after my efforts, I will just drop it and switch the subject to something more on their level, such as do they like Jeremy's beard.
    The problem with that approach is it is two years out of date. Labour should have insisted on a referendum on May's deal 18 months ago. That was the time when it should have been called. But actually they refused to get off the fence and the Tories managed to lose their majority and build the rhetoric that the way to break the Brexit impasse is to have a general election.

    Having agreed to that approach I personally see no need to have Ref2 to stop Brexit. Parties stand on a manifesto to form a government and the winner implements that manifesto. So if a party was to stand on a manifesto to revoke and win the election (which was called to break the Brexit impasse) then they can just revoke and we can all move on.

    Personally while I am not opposed to Labour's position on a question of principle it is, in my view, two years too late.
    Good post. Some people think that democracy should begin and end with an episode of direct democracy whereas the referendum was a blip amongst our representative democracy. Any party who wins a GE promising to revoke Article 50 or get some ships and tow the UK towards France will be perfectly and legitimately entitled to do that and it will be a democratic decision.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    TOPPING said:

    SunnyJim said:

    kinabalu said:

    BETTING POST -

    I've agreed to go canvassing (my debut) for Labour in Hampstead & Kilburn.

    It's my first time as well.

    Looking forward to it but i'm hoping for some guidance on dealing with less receptive householders.

    I'm assuming my usual response to being challenged by strangers of a short jab followed by a heavy cross isn't going to help my candidate particularly.
    Remember it's not your job to convince them, just to work out whose side they are on (and you should have much of that info already). Entertain as many conversations as you feel you want to and reply with a prompt "thank you good night" to those you don't.

    As a PB-er I would expect you to enjoy the exchanges with those who have something to say. Same with @kinabalu.
    In my experience voters are usually fairly polite when face to face with a canvasser even if they passionately disagree them.

    Of course this may have gone to pot since the Brexit vote, it seems to have in every other walk of life.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    SunnyJim said:

    TOPPING said:


    Please do not remind me, even tangentially, of that disgusting petrified shark in Iceland (the country).

    Taste? Texture? Cost? Accompaniments?

    Don't leave us hanging.
    Rotting socks. Fudge. Can't remember. Brennivín.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    TOPPING said:
    David Cameron's entire political project was a rolling capitulation to the Spartans. They couldn't have dreamt of a more useful idiot.
    The surprise will be when someone with a serious level of job responsibility says that Brexit is a triumph for UK soft power, will make the UK a titan on the world stage, will improve the lives of pensioners in Cleethorpes, etc. I can think of just one person in that kind of job who opposes EU membership, i.e. Mervyn King, ex-BoE.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    OllyT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SunnyJim said:

    kinabalu said:

    BETTING POST -

    I've agreed to go canvassing (my debut) for Labour in Hampstead & Kilburn.

    It's my first time as well.

    Looking forward to it but i'm hoping for some guidance on dealing with less receptive householders.

    I'm assuming my usual response to being challenged by strangers of a short jab followed by a heavy cross isn't going to help my candidate particularly.
    Remember it's not your job to convince them, just to work out whose side they are on (and you should have much of that info already). Entertain as many conversations as you feel you want to and reply with a prompt "thank you good night" to those you don't.

    As a PB-er I would expect you to enjoy the exchanges with those who have something to say. Same with @kinabalu.
    In my experience voters are usually fairly polite when face to face with a canvasser even if they passionately disagree them.

    Of course this may have gone to pot since the Brexit vote, it seems to have in every other walk of life.
    It went to pot since the Brexit vote. Was called a nazi and the rest on the doorstep. Including by Conservatives.

    (tbf that was in response to the proposed alien registration scheme, but everyone was angry.)
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    Betting:

    Cardiff North: Anna McMorrin to hold her seat at evens (Bet365) looks better value today after some bad publicity for the tories in Whales. :)

    Although only a 4 point Lab>Con swing is required, BXP have announced a candidate which will hopefully split the tory vote.

    LibDems and Plaid are nowhere so Anna has the remainer tactical vote pretty much to herself in remainy Cardiff.
  • Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 36% (-2)
    LAB: 25% (=)
    LDM: 17% (+1)
    BXP: 11% (=)

    Via @YouGov, 5-6 Nov.
    Changes w/ 1-4 Nov.
  • If that Ipsos Mori poll is new, why are the changes listed since September?

    It's not. It's their Oct 25-28 poll, reheated.
    Nick, any thoughts on Ashfield?
    I don't know anything about the current squabble. When I was in Broxtowe next door, Ashfield politics was famously internecine with real venom within and across parties. The LibDems were the worst but Labour and Tories weren't far behind, and it was reinforced by scurrilous anonymous leaflets which were (fairly or not, who knows) generally thought to be from the BNP. It seemed to have settled down under Gloria so I'm sorry to see they're at it again.
    Thanks, Nick.
    I find the language quite emotive her, ...internecine...venom...yet very little actual detail. What were the LibDems the worst at? why pick on them?

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    SunnyJim said:


    And the leftovers?

    Don't start blubbering about the poor only having whale leftovers to eat.
    You spouting off again?
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 36% (-2)
    LAB: 25% (=)
    LDM: 17% (+1)
    BXP: 11% (=)

    Via @YouGov, 5-6 Nov.
    Changes w/ 1-4 Nov.

    Could be worse - nice to see Labour static. Now that the Tories have actually begun their campaign one might hope for an improvement in their number next time.
  • I know it could be noise, but interesting that the 2 points lost by the Tories haven't gone over to the Brexit Party, but the aggregate of the two is down as well.

    Labour/Lib Dems need to be driving that aggregate down, rather than relying on the Brexit Party splitting the vote.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    TOPPING said:
    Indeed. Blaming him rather than ourselves is an easy cop out.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,717

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 36% (-2)
    LAB: 25% (=)
    LDM: 17% (+1)
    BXP: 11% (=)

    Via @YouGov, 5-6 Nov.
    Changes w/ 1-4 Nov.

    La dégringolade commence!
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    Pro_Rata said:

    Barnesian said:

    Dadge said:

    Anyone know who is behind this twitter account?

    https://twitter.com/326Pols/status/1191756161596493829?s=20

    No, but it nearly all seems quite reasonable. Their current prediction Con 346 Lab 208 SNP 44 LD 29 is similar to my Con 335 Lab 221 SNP 44 LD 27.

    It's both brave and useful to publish a table like this. As we saw in 2017, there is the possibility of everything being out of whack by several percent.
    Here is my table for England and Wales. I also show the MRP projections for each seat for reference and comparison.

    My seat total for GB are Con/Lab/LD 322/222/35

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yIHH_ZtcH9w9JF5e8WwYD6QuhOhlVwCO_GboafT6kfc/edit?usp=sharing
    Whose MRP have you picked up.

    Stalybridge & Hyde going Blue.....

    If they get that one right (requires 9.6% swing, with BXP in play as well), that is a Canterbury / Kensington scale prediction.
    It's the The Best for Britain/Focal Data MRP .

    The MRP has Stalybridge and Hyde Con/Lab as 33.2/32.8.
    My model has it as 32/44 - not even close.
  • If that Ipsos Mori poll is new, why are the changes listed since September?

    It's not. It's their Oct 25-28 poll, reheated.
    Nick, any thoughts on Ashfield?
    I don't know anything about the current squabble. When I was in Broxtowe next door, Ashfield politics was famously internecine with real venom within and across parties. The LibDems were the worst but Labour and Tories weren't far behind, and it was reinforced by scurrilous anonymous leaflets which were (fairly or not, who knows) generally thought to be from the BNP. It seemed to have settled down under Gloria so I'm sorry to see they're at it again.
    Thanks, Nick.
    I find the language quite emotive her, ...internecine...venom...yet very little actual detail. What were the LibDems the worst at? why pick on them?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Zadrozny
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Foxy said:
    MoE slide ;)

    Ah, more straws, thanks!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    RobD said:

    Re the Bercow tweet. Aren’t ex-speakers supposed to remain impartial? I don’t recall Boothroyd immediately resuming partisan operations the day after she stood down.

    I'm confused because some people defended him as speaker by saying impartiality was not critical, but hes saying it was and he was, but doesnt have to be now.

    But while I'd prefer they remain relatively impartial- and sit as crossbenchers - he doesnt have to do what is traditionally done or is supposed to do. Whether that's a good idea is another matter.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    blueblue said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 36% (-2)
    LAB: 25% (=)
    LDM: 17% (+1)
    BXP: 11% (=)

    Via @YouGov, 5-6 Nov.
    Changes w/ 1-4 Nov.

    Could be worse - nice to see Labour static. Now that the Tories have actually begun their campaign one might hope for an improvement in their number next time.
    Didn’t the Tory campaign start when the Queen was required to read out their lines to take?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:
    MoE slide ;)

    Ah, more straws, thanks!
    If it's there or thereabouts next week they can relax a little more.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    TOPPING said:

    OllyT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SunnyJim said:

    kinabalu said:

    BETTING POST -

    I've agreed to go canvassing (my debut) for Labour in Hampstead & Kilburn.

    It's my first time as well.

    Looking forward to it but i'm hoping for some guidance on dealing with less receptive householders.

    I'm assuming my usual response to being challenged by strangers of a short jab followed by a heavy cross isn't going to help my candidate particularly.
    Remember it's not your job to convince them, just to work out whose side they are on (and you should have much of that info already). Entertain as many conversations as you feel you want to and reply with a prompt "thank you good night" to those you don't.

    As a PB-er I would expect you to enjoy the exchanges with those who have something to say. Same with @kinabalu.
    In my experience voters are usually fairly polite when face to face with a canvasser even if they passionately disagree them.

    Of course this may have gone to pot since the Brexit vote, it seems to have in every other walk of life.
    It went to pot since the Brexit vote. Was called a nazi and the rest on the doorstep. Including by Conservatives.

    (tbf that was in response to the proposed alien registration scheme, but everyone was angry.)
    The ones from Alpha Centauri are the worst....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381

    I know it could be noise, but interesting that the 2 points lost by the Tories haven't gone over to the Brexit Party, but the aggregate of the two is down as well.

    Labour/Lib Dems need to be driving that aggregate down, rather than relying on the Brexit Party splitting the vote.
    47%, give or take 2%, is where their combined vote has been for months.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:
    MoE slide ;)

    Ah, more straws, thanks!
    We'd take that on the day.......
  • Meanwhile, in revisionist bullshit news:
    https://twitter.com/holland_tom/status/1192095471277359105
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    edited November 2019

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 36% (-2)
    LAB: 25% (=)
    LDM: 17% (+1)
    BXP: 11% (=)

    Via @YouGov, 5-6 Nov.
    Changes w/ 1-4 Nov.

    That poll doesn't move the dial at all.

    Still Con/Lab/LD 322/222/35

    EDIT: Sporting Index has:
    Con 319-327
    Lab 210-218
    LD 41-46
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited November 2019
    Foxy said:
    So in a poll taken yesterday and today and despite supposedly the worst start to a general election campaign ever for the Tories they are still polling at Cameron 2015 levels and Corbyn Labour are still polling worse than Foot 1983 and have not picked up a single point. Indeed the only party to gain have been the LDs and only by a point
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    OllyT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SunnyJim said:

    kinabalu said:

    BETTING POST -

    I've agreed to go canvassing (my debut) for Labour in Hampstead & Kilburn.

    It's my first time as well.

    Looking forward to it but i'm hoping for some guidance on dealing with less receptive householders.

    I'm assuming my usual response to being challenged by strangers of a short jab followed by a heavy cross isn't going to help my candidate particularly.
    Remember it's not your job to convince them, just to work out whose side they are on (and you should have much of that info already). Entertain as many conversations as you feel you want to and reply with a prompt "thank you good night" to those you don't.

    As a PB-er I would expect you to enjoy the exchanges with those who have something to say. Same with @kinabalu.
    In my experience voters are usually fairly polite when face to face with a canvasser even if they passionately disagree them.

    Of course this may have gone to pot since the Brexit vote, it seems to have in every other walk of life.
    It went to pot since the Brexit vote. Was called a nazi and the rest on the doorstep. Including by Conservatives.

    (tbf that was in response to the proposed alien registration scheme, but everyone was angry.)
    The ones from Alpha Centauri are the worst....
    They keep teleporting away when they should be signing their registration forms.
  • If that Ipsos Mori poll is new, why are the changes listed since September?

    It's not. It's their Oct 25-28 poll, reheated.
    Nick, any thoughts on Ashfield?
    I don't know anything about the current squabble. When I was in Broxtowe next door, Ashfield politics was famously internecine with real venom within and across parties. The LibDems were the worst but Labour and Tories weren't far behind, and it was reinforced by scurrilous anonymous leaflets which were (fairly or not, who knows) generally thought to be from the BNP. It seemed to have settled down under Gloria so I'm sorry to see they're at it again.
    Thanks, Nick.
    I find the language quite emotive her, ...internecine...venom...yet very little actual detail. What were the LibDems the worst at? why pick on them?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Zadrozny
    Are you implying the libdems were annoyed because he left the party?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Foxy said:
    Sets up a nice Saturday Bounce for Con! :D
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,717
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:
    So in a poll taken yesterday and today and despite supposedly the worst start to a general election campaign ever for the Tories they are still polling at Cameron 2015 levels and Labour are still polling worse than Foot 1983 and have not picked up a single point. Indeed the only party to gain have been the LDs and only by a point
    At no point during Theresa May's 2017 campaign did you poll as badly as this. :)
  • GIN1138 said:

    Foxy said:
    Sets up a nice Saturday Bounce for Con! :D
    45/45 in same poll - leave v remain
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited November 2019
    AndyJS said:

    "Swing state polling suggests Donald Trump's 2020 re-election chances are much better than presumed"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/04/swing-state-polling-suggests-donald-trumps-2020-re-election/

    Trump trails Biden by just 1% across key swing states in a new NYT poll and beats Sanders by 1% and Warren by 3%
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:
    So in a poll taken yesterday and today and despite supposedly the worst start to a general election campaign ever for the Tories they are still polling at Cameron 2015 levels and Corbyn Labour are still polling worse than Foot 1983 and have not picked up a single point. Indeed the only party to gain have been the LDs and only by a point
    Polls always take time to react to current events that are not cataclysmic.

  • Are you implying the libdems were annoyed because he left the party?

    No, I'm pointing out that there was clearly bad feeling there, which probably explains what Nick said. More recently, there has also been bad feeling in the local Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/20/gloria-de-piero-quits-labour-frontbench-over-lack-of-tolerance

    However, I only know what I've read in the national news sites, I have no local knowledge. That is why I was asking Nick about the constituency: the betting markets currently have Jason Zadrozny as the favourite, which is unusual for a purely local party.

    Perhaps you know more about it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    philiph said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:
    So in a poll taken yesterday and today and despite supposedly the worst start to a general election campaign ever for the Tories they are still polling at Cameron 2015 levels and Corbyn Labour are still polling worse than Foot 1983 and have not picked up a single point. Indeed the only party to gain have been the LDs and only by a point
    Polls always take time to react to current events that are not cataclysmic.
    These are clearly Westminster bubble issues, swing voters could not care less
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited November 2019
    The YouGov poll must be a relief to the Lib Dems .

    Stops the slide . Although to be blunt the less people see of Jo Swinson the better probably for the party . I just can’t warm to her and she seriously needs some good advice regarding her wardrobe which is shocking .

    Don’t get me wrong I like the Lib Dems and hope they do well but Swinson just isn’t doing it for me as leader .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:
    So in a poll taken yesterday and today and despite supposedly the worst start to a general election campaign ever for the Tories they are still polling at Cameron 2015 levels and Labour are still polling worse than Foot 1983 and have not picked up a single point. Indeed the only party to gain have been the LDs and only by a point
    At no point during Theresa May's 2017 campaign did you poll as badly as this. :)
    By this stage in 2017 Labour were polling above this
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    It’s interesting to pause and digest what the leader numbers mean. Corbyn does not satisfy at about half of Labour voters. I guess they believe he should be doing better. Whereas the other leaders seem to be able to reach beyond their voters.

    Clearly Labour has to unfuck Corbyn in the way they did in 2017. The Tories and LibDems should be looking to reach those approvers.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    edited November 2019
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    Yes but its the 2019 results we want. Ideally before the beginning of December, thanks very much.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,489
    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Swing state polling suggests Donald Trump's 2020 re-election chances are much better than presumed"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/04/swing-state-polling-suggests-donald-trumps-2020-re-election/

    Trump trails Biden by just 1% across key swing states in a new NYT poll and beats Sanders by 1% and Warren by 3%
    What do you make of the more recent polling that has Trumpton being shat on from a great height by both Biden and Warren?

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/national_general_election/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236
    TOPPING said:

    What will you answer when they ask: Does Jeremy want to stop Brexit?

    I'll say "what matters is whether YOU want to stop Brexit".

    Think that will go down extremely well. People like to feel important.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,717

    GIN1138 said:

    Foxy said:
    Sets up a nice Saturday Bounce for Con! :D
    45/45 in same poll - leave v remain
    Where do you see that? It looks like they didn't ask a Leave/Remain question in that poll.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/df8cjzcpgw/TheTimes_Sky_VI_191106_w.pdf

  • Are you implying the libdems were annoyed because he left the party?

    No, I'm pointing out that there was clearly bad feeling there, which probably explains what Nick said. More recently, there has also been bad feeling in the local Labour Party:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/20/gloria-de-piero-quits-labour-frontbench-over-lack-of-tolerance

    However, I only know what I've read in the national news sites, I have no local knowledge. That is why I was asking Nick about the constituency: the betting markets currently have Jason Zadrozny as the favourite, which is unusual for a purely local party.

    Perhaps you know more about it?
    Sadly I know very little as I am from Wales, nowhere near.

    :smile:
  • 'Deluded' is the word which immediately springs to mind.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Foxy said:
    Sets up a nice Saturday Bounce for Con! :D
    45/45 in same poll - leave v remain
    Where do you see that? It looks like they didn't ask a Leave/Remain question in that poll.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/df8cjzcpgw/TheTimes_Sky_VI_191106_w.pdf
    SKY News has been reporting it as a dead heat on the Brexit question
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,119
    edited November 2019

    GIN1138 said:

    Foxy said:
    Sets up a nice Saturday Bounce for Con! :D
    45/45 in same poll - leave v remain
    Where do you see that? It looks like they didn't ask a Leave/Remain question in that poll.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/df8cjzcpgw/TheTimes_Sky_VI_191106_w.pdf
    The yougov poll was done for Sky news and reported by them
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    GIN1138 said:

    Foxy said:
    Sets up a nice Saturday Bounce for Con! :D
    You must be disappointed they dropped only 2 points. Think how big the bounce could have been if they'd dropped 5!

    On the other hand, maybe it's as well they didn't, just in case there isn't a bounce ...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,489
    Just a whiff of a Tory decline as the campaign begins. More evidence that pre-campaign polling is a waste of numerals.
  • kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    What will you answer when they ask: Does Jeremy want to stop Brexit?

    I'll say "what matters is whether YOU want to stop Brexit".

    Think that will go down extremely well. People like to feel important.
    Why on earth are you campaigning for *this* Labour Party led by Corbyn?

    I think it’s utterly shameful what you’re doing.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Perhaps Raab could chicken run up North to the safe seat of Dover.
  • 'Deluded' is the word which immediately springs to mind.
    'Pisspoor at expectations management' was my initial thought.
  • 'Deluded' is the word which immediately springs to mind.
    'Pisspoor at expectations management' was my initial thought.
    That too.
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    Barnesian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Barnesian said:

    Dadge said:

    Anyone know who is behind this twitter account?

    https://twitter.com/326Pols/status/1191756161596493829?s=20

    No, but it nearly all seems quite reasonable. Their current prediction Con 346 Lab 208 SNP 44 LD 29 is similar to my Con 335 Lab 221 SNP 44 LD 27.

    It's both brave and useful to publish a table like this. As we saw in 2017, there is the possibility of everything being out of whack by several percent.
    Here is my table for England and Wales. I also show the MRP projections for each seat for reference and comparison.

    My seat total for GB are Con/Lab/LD 322/222/35

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yIHH_ZtcH9w9JF5e8WwYD6QuhOhlVwCO_GboafT6kfc/edit?usp=sharing
    Whose MRP have you picked up.

    Stalybridge & Hyde going Blue.....

    If they get that one right (requires 9.6% swing, with BXP in play as well), that is a Canterbury / Kensington scale prediction.
    It's the The Best for Britain/Focal Data MRP .

    The MRP has Stalybridge and Hyde Con/Lab as 33.2/32.8.
    My model has it as 32/44 - not even close.
    I think your model is far better than the MRP one. To me the MRP one understates Labour in safe Labour seats by a considerable margin. I'm most familiar with the North West, and having Labour at 34% in Makerfield is nuts. 33% in Leigh also and having Labour in the 50s in the LIverpool seats also seems very low. Your numbers seem much nearer the mark. Maybe the MRP model is putting too much weight on leave % and UNS. The flip side is that it is presumably overstating Labour somewhere else.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    I suppose E&W might be interesting if the Brexit Party run a candidate against Raab.

    They are on 11 per cent in that 'analysis'.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    edited November 2019
    From a chap who works on the exit poll.

    https://twitter.com/StephenDFisher/status/1192133105198469125
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    GIN1138 said:
    "Recent poll analysis"... by whom and how analysed? it sounds like tosh.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,488

    Depends if Boris appoints a successor. David Jones is ready made having been SOS before

    Also the overall direction of travel in Wales is positive
    Just have Boris announce he is going to look again at the tidal lagoons if elected - and is minded to make Wales the first country in the world powered by waves....
    I believe he already has said that, but it's just words without a firm step in that direction. I would have liked to see them sign the deal at a lower strike price - surely the existence of a rival scheme has brought a sense of realism to the tidal lagoon company.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    I suppose E&W might be interesting if the Brexit Party run a candidate against Raab.

    They are on 11 per cent in that 'analysis'.

    I suppose it might be used as a stick to beat the BXP....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236
    johnt said:

    The problem with that approach is it is two years out of date. Labour should have insisted on a referendum on May's deal 18 months ago. That was the time when it should have been called. But actually they refused to get off the fence and the Tories managed to lose their majority and build the rhetoric that the way to break the Brexit impasse is to have a general election.

    Having agreed to that approach I personally see no need to have Ref2 to stop Brexit. Parties stand on a manifesto to form a government and the winner implements that manifesto. So if a party was to stand on a manifesto to revoke and win the election (which was called to break the Brexit impasse) then they can just revoke and we can all move on.

    Personally while I am not opposed to Labour's position on a question of principle it is, in my view, two years too late.

    Take your point but I do not think Labour could have forced Ref2 through the parliament just deceased. My view, with the perfect wisdom of hindsight, is they should have let May's Deal pass. That IMO would not have been the best thing for stopping Brexit (obvs) but it would have set up better GE prospects for Labour than we have right now.
  • It looks as though courtesy of the SKY News piggy bank we are going to get a SKY News branded YouGov poll every day :) Deep joy
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,717
    kinabalu said:

    johnt said:

    The problem with that approach is it is two years out of date. Labour should have insisted on a referendum on May's deal 18 months ago. That was the time when it should have been called. But actually they refused to get off the fence and the Tories managed to lose their majority and build the rhetoric that the way to break the Brexit impasse is to have a general election.

    Having agreed to that approach I personally see no need to have Ref2 to stop Brexit. Parties stand on a manifesto to form a government and the winner implements that manifesto. So if a party was to stand on a manifesto to revoke and win the election (which was called to break the Brexit impasse) then they can just revoke and we can all move on.

    Personally while I am not opposed to Labour's position on a question of principle it is, in my view, two years too late.

    Take your point but I do not think Labour could have forced Ref2 through the parliament just deceased. My view, with the perfect wisdom of hindsight, is they should have let May's Deal pass. That IMO would not have been the best thing for stopping Brexit (obvs) but it would have set up better GE prospects for Labour than we have right now.
    I think at the moment May's deal was published, if either she or Corbyn had made a bold move and backed a referendum, it would have become inevitable.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited November 2019
    I was a little worried. I did not receive any campaign literature from the LibDems on Saturday.

    Nor on Sunday. Nor on Monday. Nor on Tuesday.

    I had begun to fear that an incautious word or phrase of mine on pb.com may have caused the Liberal Democrats to take offence.

    So picture my happiness when on returning home, there it was on the door-mat.

    It is a little skinny, no bar charts or wacky statistics. Just a single piece of card telling me that the "Liberal Democrats are WINNING across the country". WINNING of course in orange capitals.

    And now and then, it seems to drift into Keith Vaz's electoral vocabulary, with talk of LibDems being "on the up".

    But, how consoling it is to know that normal service has been resumed.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited November 2019

    It looks as though courtesy of the SKY News piggy bank we are going to get a SKY News branded YouGov poll every day :) Deep joy

    Oh dear. Sounds like the silly daily/nightly tracker poll we had in the Sun during the 2010 election.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Swing state polling suggests Donald Trump's 2020 re-election chances are much better than presumed"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/04/swing-state-polling-suggests-donald-trumps-2020-re-election/

    Trump trails Biden by just 1% across key swing states in a new NYT poll and beats Sanders by 1% and Warren by 3%
    What do you make of the more recent polling that has Trumpton being shat on from a great height by both Biden and Warren?

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/national_general_election/
    National popular vote not swing state polls (even Hillary won the popular vote against Trump) and Emerson has it much closer even there
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    GIN1138 said:

    It looks as though courtesy of the SKY News piggy bank we are going to get a SKY News branded YouGov poll every day :) Deep joy

    Oh dear. Sounds like the silly daily/nightly tracker poll we had in the Sun during the 2010 election.
    And even worse the 2015 election.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683
    edited November 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    It looks as though courtesy of the SKY News piggy bank we are going to get a SKY News branded YouGov poll every day :) Deep joy

    Oh dear. Sounds like the silly daily/nightly tracker poll we had in the Sun during the 2010 election.
    They were great! I can remember the nightly posts to this day:

    'Wibbly wobbly Tory bottoms.'

    'Cameron. Pledge a referendum on EU membership. NOW!'

    'Osborne has to go.'

    'That Michael Crick really is a ...'
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    HYUFD said:
    A host of voters ask "That clean break option Nigel - is it your neck?"
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    @Benpointer and others who asked about 326 Politics.

    326 Politics is the brainchild of John Sandall, a data scientist in London. He has a portfolio career, and has founded and run quite a few companies at this point. One of the young kids with a laptop and Python. Quite smart, keen about politics. Used to bop out of Newspeak House on Bethnal Green Road. Runs Python classes and data scientist courses to corporates, does Pol work in his spare time. Is building a bit of a rep. I think he's still involved with CampaignLab. Is the kind of person that can use the word "Hackathon" without giggling. Still young and hungry and a bit of an evangelist. Might go far, might not: it's a crowded game but he knows all the buzzwords. He presented to RSS in 2018 Cardiff. Not bad, but I didn't have the heart to tell him he'd used the wrong definition of swing. John Curtice was in the audience and was less inhibited. Decent chap, basically.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    HYUFD said:
    "We have already established what you are. Now we are merely haggling over the price..." :blush:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236
    SunnyJim said:

    Far be it from me to help the opposition but anybody listening to you will be hearing...stop Brexit, stop Brexit.

    If you're in the south I suspect the LD's will have that particular angle covered and if you're in the north voters won't want to hear it.

    I'm not somebody with a particularly high opinion of the public's political nous but I do think they are capable of a little bit of nuance. For example, that it might be less traumatic for our democracy to Remain via Ref2 than via straight parliamentary Revoke. You might not agree with this - not sure I do tbh - but it's certainly a valid point and one that I think most people are capable of engaging with. To listen to you and @TOPPING etc it's as if to be effective in British politics these days, all you can do is roam around grunting basic slogans of maximum 3 words pitched at about primary school level. I want us to be better than that.
  • johntjohnt Posts: 166

    kinabalu said:

    johnt said:

    The problem with that approach is it is two years out of date. Labour should have insisted on a referendum on May's deal 18 months ago. That was the time when it should have been called. But actually they refused to get off the fence and the Tories managed to lose their majority and build the rhetoric that the way to break the Brexit impasse is to have a general election.

    Having agreed to that approach I personally see no need to have Ref2 to stop Brexit. Parties stand on a manifesto to form a government and the winner implements that manifesto. So if a party was to stand on a manifesto to revoke and win the election (which was called to break the Brexit impasse) then they can just revoke and we can all move on.

    Personally while I am not opposed to Labour's position on a question of principle it is, in my view, two years too late.

    Take your point but I do not think Labour could have forced Ref2 through the parliament just deceased. My view, with the perfect wisdom of hindsight, is they should have let May's Deal pass. That IMO would not have been the best thing for stopping Brexit (obvs) but it would have set up better GE prospects for Labour than we have right now.
    I think at the moment May's deal was published, if either she or Corbyn had made a bold move and backed a referendum, it would have become inevitable.
    Agreed and the reality is that whatever deal is eventually done for Brexit it will look nothing like the fantasy that Vote Leave sold to the public so Brexit will continue to be an issue even after we have left. The whole Tory rhetoric about voting Tory to 'get Brexit done' is just another fantasy. This mess will go on on for another decade.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    edited November 2019

    GIN1138 said:
    "Recent poll analysis"... by whom and how analysed? it sounds like tosh.
    And it’s utter tosh of the toshest tripe. There’s been no polling in E&W and their candidate, Monica Harding, had to issue an humiliating apology (gleefully reported by Guido and others) for misrepresenting a Survation national survey and applying some form of flavible to it. She then whimpered about it being an innocent rookie error.....only to find that the candidate in Putney had done exactly the same. No one in this Board will be in the least bit surprised.

    I haven’t yet been out haranguing the good denizens of the constituency but reports from those who have are pretty sanguine. There’s little doubt that Raab’s majority will fall - inevitable given the intense LD campaign - but at this stage I’d hazard a hold of between 10-15 k.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,488
    blueblue said:

    HYUFD said:
    "We have already established what you are. Now we are merely haggling over the price..." :blush:
    Sounds like begging to be honest.

    The Lib Dem / Green tie up is a gift to the Tories as far as persuading BXP supporters over. If they can get them free, not much point in striking a deal.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    OllyT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SunnyJim said:

    kinabalu said:

    BETTING POST -

    I've agreed to go canvassing (my debut) for Labour in Hampstead & Kilburn.

    It's my first time as well.

    Looking forward to it but i'm hoping for some guidance on dealing with less receptive householders.

    I'm assuming my usual response to being challenged by strangers of a short jab followed by a heavy cross isn't going to help my candidate particularly.
    Remember it's not your job to convince them, just to work out whose side they are on (and you should have much of that info already). Entertain as many conversations as you feel you want to and reply with a prompt "thank you good night" to those you don't.

    As a PB-er I would expect you to enjoy the exchanges with those who have something to say. Same with @kinabalu.
    In my experience voters are usually fairly polite when face to face with a canvasser even if they passionately disagree them.

    Of course this may have gone to pot since the Brexit vote, it seems to have in every other walk of life.
    After Jeremy Thorpe advocated bombing Rhodesia I was ‘escorted off the premises’ several times while canvassing in a particularly Conservative area.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    That's Professor Stephen Fisher, you dork! One of the best people in the whole field in the UK! Honestly, I give up... :)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    viewcode said:

    That's Professor Stephen Fisher, you dork! One of the best people in the whole field in the UK! Honestly, I give up... :)
    I only look at polls commissioned by knights of the realm.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047

    OllyT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SunnyJim said:

    kinabalu said:

    BETTING POST -

    I've agreed to go canvassing (my debut) for Labour in Hampstead & Kilburn.

    It's my first time as well.

    Looking forward to it but i'm hoping for some guidance on dealing with less receptive householders.

    I'm assuming my usual response to being challenged by strangers of a short jab followed by a heavy cross isn't going to help my candidate particularly.
    Remember it's not your job to convince them, just to work out whose side they are on (and you should have much of that info already). Entertain as many conversations as you feel you want to and reply with a prompt "thank you good night" to those you don't.

    As a PB-er I would expect you to enjoy the exchanges with those who have something to say. Same with @kinabalu.
    In my experience voters are usually fairly polite when face to face with a canvasser even if they passionately disagree them.

    Of course this may have gone to pot since the Brexit vote, it seems to have in every other walk of life.
    After Jeremy Thorpe advocated bombing Rhodesia I was ‘escorted off the premises’ several times while canvassing in a particularly Conservative area.
    I was once, as a Liberal, canvassing a very posh house, greeted with the following statement. My husband and I will be voting for you, but the servants vote Conservative.
This discussion has been closed.