I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?
The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.
Is urinating on homeless people something you think about a lot?
IIRC, Mr Meeks is not a Conservative.
In 30 years I’ve never heard a Tory suggest anything remotely as unpleasant as that.
It suggests that @AlastairMeeks views fellow citizens with contempt
What a nasty man he has turned into
Mr M has described himself as a narcissist, I dont think he'll be too worried what anyone else thinks.
I'm certainly not worried about the opinions of affluent reactionaries who are chortlingly inflicting the most severe act of self-damage that this country has experienced in living memory, while seeking to exploit the opportunities that the disaster will throw up.
Really ? You seem to post about them a lot but that might just be spotlight chasing.
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party membership.
Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.
We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
A consensual approach cannot start by predetermining the particular outcome you are aiming for.
He was not predetermining the particular outcome but the general outcome. The particular (CU, SM, FTA etc) was open to negotiation but the general outcome (Brexit) was not.
I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?
The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.
Is urinating on homeless people something you think about a lot?
IIRC, Mr Meeks is not a Conservative.
In 30 years I’ve never heard a Tory suggest anything remotely as unpleasant as that. It suggests that @AlastairMeeks views fellow citizens with contempt What a nasty man he has turned into
Come off it, Mr Charles! Everybody knows the entire Tory leadership look down upon the rest of us with utter contempt. Otherwise they would be a bit more respectful in what they do and say. They treat us like like the Bullingdon Boys treat decent restaurants.
Completely agree. I said last night on here that most people would expect the odious Rees to say things of this nature.
In fact I was a bit shocked by it. I saw the fuss, the one liners etc, and prepared myself for what usually happens when I take the time to delve into something like this, hear the ACTUAL words, consider the context, which is that the whole thing is overblown and just nothing like as terrible as it's being made out to be.
So I clicked in and heard the following, addressed by Mogg to his interlocutor -
"I mean, if you or I were in a burning building, whatever the fire brigade told us to do, we would leave the burning building. It just seems like the common sense thing to do."
I doubt whether any of these campaign 'disasters' will cut through to voting intention TBH. Probably only the Rees-Mogg gaffe will be noticed by ordinary people, and they are either ardent Leavers who will forgive him anything because he's an ardent Leaver, or they are not in which case they already think he's a dork and won't be surprised to see their opinion confirmed.
Completely agree. I said last night on here that most people would expect the odious Rees to say things of this nature.
A case of "What can you expect from a pig but a grunt"? Hardly a ringing endorsement of the man.
Oh sure, but the point is it's unlikely to move public opinion because public opinion of the snivelling Rees is already very low.
It's like that old saw about libel damaging one's reputation in the eyes of right-thinking people: it is only possible if one has any reputation left to damage in the first place.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
There wasn't a Brexit that Rory would have been able to get through parliament...other than perhaps BRINO with a referendum.
There isn't a consensus to be had pre-Brexit.
However, once this particular hurdle has been cleared I would expect the Conservatives to return to a broader, one-nation party.
At which point hopefully former Tory remainers will be willing to move on and look to the future.
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party membership.
Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.
We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
Unfortunate is an interesting choice of word, it is not misfortune that has led us here but the deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
By using the Lib Dem and Conservative national vote share together the Ross, Skye and Lochaber totals almost perfectly fits a linear model for predicting the LD vote.
It's so good I might need to double check I haven't fucked up somehow.
But if true then Lib Dems polling 13% in Scotland puts them on 38% of the vote in Ross Skye And Lochaber and within striking range of Blackford.
I doubt whether any of these campaign 'disasters' will cut through to voting intention TBH. Probably only the Rees-Mogg gaffe will be noticed by ordinary people, and they are either ardent Leavers who will forgive him anything because he's an ardent Leaver, or they are not in which case they already think he's a dork and won't be surprised to see their opinion confirmed.
Completely agree. I said last night on here that most people would expect the odious Rees to say things of this nature.
A case of "What can you expect from a pig but a grunt"? Hardly a ringing endorsement of the man.
Oh sure, but the point is it's unlikely to move public opinion because public opinion of the snivelling Rees is already very low.
It's like that old saw about libel damaging one's reputation in the eyes of right-thinking people: it is only possible if one has any reputation left to damage in the first place.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
There wasn't a Brexit that Rory would have been able to get through parliament...other than perhaps BRINO with a referendum.
There isn't a consensus to be had pre-Brexit.
However, once this particular hurdle has been cleared I would expect the Conservatives to return to a broader, one-nation party.
At which point hopefully former Tory remainers will be willing to move on and look to the future.
He specifically ruled out a referendum. I disagree that he couldnt get a soft Brexit through parliament.
I'm certainly not worried about the opinions of affluent reactionaries who are chortlingly inflicting the most severe act of self-damage that this country has experienced in living memory, while seeking to exploit the opportunities that the disaster will throw up.
I admire your willingness to be open about your identity but does it not concern you that some of your more unsavoury posts may reflect negatively on you away from here?
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party membership.
Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.
We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
Unfortunate is an interesting choice of word, it is not misfortune that has led us here but the deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
Exactly. The loss of people like Rory Stewart is deliberate. @DavidL may bemoan it as unfortunate but he is still going to vote for the party which caused it and which prefers people like Priti Patel, Andrew Bridgen and Mark Francois to represent it.
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party membership.
Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.
We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
Unfortunate is an interesting choice of word, it is not misfortune that has led us here but the deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
Boris speaking significantly better than normal. Usually he is terrible - his PMQs performances are tooth-drawing stuff. Today he is positively adequate.
I'm certainly not worried about the opinions of affluent reactionaries who are chortlingly inflicting the most severe act of self-damage that this country has experienced in living memory, while seeking to exploit the opportunities that the disaster will throw up.
I admire your willingness to be open about your identity but does it not concern you that some of your more unsavoury posts may reflect negatively on you away from here?
Unlike most posters on here, I stand by what I write. Unfortunately, quite a few posters on here seem unable to read.
This may be slightly counter intuitive but I wonder if Kay Burley might get in some hot water over this mornings antics..... aggressively no chairing someone not booked on your show in an election campaign? Shes got her gotcha moment but is it a self gotcha?
I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?
The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.
Is urinating on homeless people something you think about a lot?
IIRC, Mr Meeks is not a Conservative.
In 30 years I’ve never heard a Tory suggest anything remotely as unpleasant as that.
It suggests that @AlastairMeeks views fellow citizens with contempt
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party membership.
Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.
We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
Unfortunate is an interesting choice of word, it is not misfortune that has led us here but the deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
Exactly. The loss of people like Rory Stewart is deliberate. @DavidL may bemoan it as unfortunate but he is still going to vote for the party which caused it and which prefers people like Priti Patel, Andrew Bridgen and Mark Francois to represent it.
The choice available at this election is distinctly sub-optimal. But choices have to be made. I remain hopeful that once the hysteria of Brexit dies away the manifest and patent incompetence and ineptitude of those you name will curtail their careers.
This may be slightly counter intuitive but I wonder if Kay Burley might get in some hot water over this mornings antics..... aggressively no chairing someone not booked on your show in an election campaign? Shes got her gotcha moment but is it a self gotcha?
The media's anti-Tory bias is both blatant and repulsive.
This may be slightly counter intuitive but I wonder if Kay Burley might get in some hot water over this mornings antics..... aggressively no chairing someone not booked on your show in an election campaign? Shes got her gotcha moment but is it a self gotcha?
As far as I can see he wasn’t booked, then agreed to appear, then pulled out, making it bit worse by claiming he was on another show while his chair was being interviewed (he wasn’t). I expect the Tories will try and spin the not-booked line but not sure how aggressively they can go after a perhaps-a-bit-unfair video the day after being caught out doctoring one.
deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
One persons 'English populist nationalist party'...
...is another persons 'respecter of the referendum result against the establishment elite'.
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party membership.
Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.
We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
Unfortunate is an interesting choice of word, it is not misfortune that has led us here but the deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
Exactly. The loss of people like Rory Stewart is deliberate. @DavidL may bemoan it as unfortunate but he is still going to vote for the party which caused it and which prefers people like Priti Patel, Andrew Bridgen and Mark Francois to represent it.
The choice available at this election is distinctly sub-optimal. But choices have to be made. I remain hopeful that once the hysteria of Brexit dies away the manifest and patent incompetence and ineptitude of those you name will curtail their careers.
If you win and pass the deal, we'll be up straight against the deadline to decide whether to extend transition. Why will that be any different to the arguments we've been having over the last two years?
This may be slightly counter intuitive but I wonder if Kay Burley might get in some hot water over this mornings antics..... aggressively no chairing someone not booked on your show in an election campaign? Shes got her gotcha moment but is it a self gotcha?
As far as I can see he wasn’t booked, then agreed to appear, then pulled out, making it bit worse by claiming he was on another show while his chair was being interviewed (he wasn’t). I expect the Tories will try and spin the not-booked line but not sure how aggressively they can go after a perhaps-a-bit-unfair video the day after being caught out doctoring one.
Be interesting to know the ins and outs. She was unusually belligerent, like something rather more confrontational had happened.
This may be slightly counter intuitive but I wonder if Kay Burley might get in some hot water over this mornings antics..... aggressively no chairing someone not booked on your show in an election campaign? Shes got her gotcha moment but is it a self gotcha?
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party membership.
Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.
We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
Unfortunate is an interesting choice of word, it is not misfortune that has led us here but the deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
Exactly. The loss of people like Rory Stewart is deliberate. @DavidL may bemoan it as unfortunate but he is still going to vote for the party which caused it and which prefers people like Priti Patel, Andrew Bridgen and Mark Francois to represent it.
The choice available at this election is distinctly sub-optimal. But choices have to be made. I remain hopeful that once the hysteria of Brexit dies away the manifest and patent incompetence and ineptitude of those you name will curtail their careers.
If you win and pass the deal, we'll be up straight against the deadline to decide whether to extend transition. Why will that be any different to the arguments we've been having over the last two years?
Because the transition will become the base of the deal. Which will suit me (and, rather more importantly, the UK) fine.
If you win and pass the deal, we'll be up straight against the deadline to decide whether to extend transition. Why will that be any different to the arguments we've been having over the last two years?
Massively different in the eyes of voters.
Arguing about a future relationship is fine...working to overturn the referendum result isn't.
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party membership.
Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.
We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
Unfortunate is an interesting choice of word, it is not misfortune that has led us here but the deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
Exactly. The loss of people like Rory Stewart is deliberate. @DavidL may bemoan it as unfortunate but he is still going to vote for the party which caused it and which prefers people like Priti Patel, Andrew Bridgen and Mark Francois to represent it.
The choice available at this election is distinctly sub-optimal. But choices have to be made. I remain hopeful that once the hysteria of Brexit dies away the manifest and patent incompetence and ineptitude of those you name will curtail their careers.
If you win and pass the deal, we'll be up straight against the deadline to decide whether to extend transition. Why will that be any different to the arguments we've been having over the last two years?
This may be slightly counter intuitive but I wonder if Kay Burley might get in some hot water over this mornings antics..... aggressively no chairing someone not booked on your show in an election campaign? Shes got her gotcha moment but is it a self gotcha?
The media's anti-Tory bias is both blatant and repulsive.
The fact that the Tory party have morphed back into the Nasty Party (but knobs on) might also have something to do with it.
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party membership.
Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.
We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
Unfortunate is an interesting choice of word, it is not misfortune that has led us here but the deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
Exactly. The loss of people like Rory Stewart is deliberate. @DavidL may bemoan it as unfortunate but he is still going to vote for the party which caused it and which prefers people like Priti Patel, Andrew Bridgen and Mark Francois to represent it.
A process which is not easily reversible under FPTP.
A PR system would offer more than one opportunity for moderates to find a political home - as it is, there is the slightly uncomfortable or uncertain broad church offered by the Lib Dems.
deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
One persons 'English populist nationalist party'...
...is another persons 'respecter of the referendum result against the establishment elite'.
We get to choose our definitions next month.
Yes lets pretend the party that has been in govt the last decade and most of the last century is not the establishment elite. Nor the Eton educated PM or his lackeys such as Baron Rees-Mogg the hedge fund managing son of the editor of the Times.
How easily people are persuaded of nonsense in pursuit of this Brexit religion. Black is white and white is black as long as the temples are led by believers.
Does anyone know for definite whether Theresa May is standing again? It's not particularly obvious why she would but I have not seen anything to the contrary.
It was, was it not, announced that she was, and indeed had been seen out canvassing.,
This may be slightly counter intuitive but I wonder if Kay Burley might get in some hot water over this mornings antics..... aggressively no chairing someone not booked on your show in an election campaign? Shes got her gotcha moment but is it a self gotcha?
As far as I can see he wasn’t booked, then agreed to appear, then pulled out, making it bit worse by claiming he was on another show while his chair was being interviewed (he wasn’t). I expect the Tories will try and spin the not-booked line but not sure how aggressively they can go after a perhaps-a-bit-unfair video the day after being caught out doctoring one.
Be interesting to know the ins and outs. She was unusually belligerent, like something rather more confrontational had happened.
Yeah, she said she'd spoken to him a few minutes before, and he was clearly in the same building, so I suspect there was a lot more to it than "spoken to him".
Labour's ruling body, the NEC, was also considering the case of former Leicester East MP Keith Vaz and it's understood no final decision has been made on whether he can stand for the party again.
Mr Vaz was suspended by Parliament for six months after he was found to have "expressed willingness" to purchase cocaine for male prostitutes.
This may be slightly counter intuitive but I wonder if Kay Burley might get in some hot water over this mornings antics..... aggressively no chairing someone not booked on your show in an election campaign? Shes got her gotcha moment but is it a self gotcha?
Rumours she is to be reported to Ofcom
She deserves to be
Not immediately obvious why: she gives all parties a hard time and offers right of reply, which on this occasion the Tories declined to use.
I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?
The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.
Is urinating on homeless people something you think about a lot?
IIRC, Mr Meeks is not a Conservative.
In 30 years I’ve never heard a Tory suggest anything remotely as unpleasant as that.
It suggests that @AlastairMeeks views fellow citizens with contempt
What a nasty man he has turned into
On a day that the PM compared Corbyn to Stalin on the front page of the Telegraph, you're having a fit of the vapours over Alastair's hyperbole ?
By using the Lib Dem and Conservative national vote share together the Ross, Skye and Lochaber totals almost perfectly fits a linear model for predicting the LD vote.
It's so good I might need to double check I haven't fucked up somehow.
But if true then Lib Dems polling 13% in Scotland puts them on 38% of the vote in Ross Skye And Lochaber and within striking range of Blackford.
You haven't been up all night doing this, have you?
Yes lets pretend the party that has been in govt the last decade and most of the last century is not the establishment elite. Nor the Eton educated PM or his lackeys such as Baron Rees-Mogg the hedge fund managing son of the editor of the Times.
How easily people are persuaded of nonsense in pursuit of this Brexit religion. Black is white and white is black as long as the temples are led by believers.
You are sort of making my point for me.
I read your post and it screams furious remainer who would love to overturn the result of the referendum in a heartbeat.
On the subject of Brexit there is clearly little to no common ground between us which is probably representative of the country at large now.
That's why this is a fight to the metaphorical death but once it is done it's done.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
There wasn't a Brexit that Rory would have been able to get through parliament...other than perhaps BRINO with a referendum.
There isn't a consensus to be had pre-Brexit.
However, once this particular hurdle has been cleared I would expect the Conservatives to return to a broader, one-nation party.
At which point hopefully former Tory remainers will be willing to move on and look to the future.
He specifically ruled out a referendum. I disagree that he couldnt get a soft Brexit through parliament.
I lament Rory leaving the Conservative Party. His was a brand of conservatism I could be entirely comfortable with. His was a brand of Brexit I could be comfortable with. . But I personally doubt he could have either achieved a better deal from Europe, who haveto be seen to win, or got it through parliament, where the opposition parties would have found a reason to vote against it, because parliament is tribal, not pragmatic, much as we may wish it was otherwise.
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party membership.
Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.
We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
Unfortunate is an interesting choice of word, it is not misfortune that has led us here but the deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
Exactly. The loss of people like Rory Stewart is deliberate. @DavidL may bemoan it as unfortunate but he is still going to vote for the party which caused it and which prefers people like Priti Patel, Andrew Bridgen and Mark Francois to represent it.
The choice available at this election is distinctly sub-optimal. But choices have to be made. I remain hopeful that once the hysteria of Brexit dies away the manifest and patent incompetence and ineptitude of those you name will curtail their careers.
If you win and pass the deal, we'll be up straight against the deadline to decide whether to extend transition. Why will that be any different to the arguments we've been having over the last two years?
We will be out
And you think that will be the end of it? That Europe will not be dominating us and our news headlines for years to come?
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party membership.
Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.
We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
Unfortunate is an interesting choice of word, it is not misfortune that has led us here but the deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
Exactly. The loss of people like Rory Stewart is deliberate. @DavidL may bemoan it as unfortunate but he is still going to vote for the party which caused it and which prefers people like Priti Patel, Andrew Bridgen and Mark Francois to represent it.
The choice available at this election is distinctly sub-optimal. But choices have to be made. I remain hopeful that once the hysteria of Brexit dies away the manifest and patent incompetence and ineptitude of those you name will curtail their careers.
If you win and pass the deal, we'll be up straight against the deadline to decide whether to extend transition. Why will that be any different to the arguments we've been having over the last two years?
Because the transition will become the base of the deal. Which will suit me (and, rather more importantly, the UK) fine.
Does anyone know for definite whether Theresa May is standing again? It's not particularly obvious why she would but I have not seen anything to the contrary.
It was, was it not, announced that she was, and indeed had been seen out canvassing.,
What about Lord Buckethead and Howling Laud Hope, who should both be in with a good chance this time round?
I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?
The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.
Is urinating on homeless people something you think about a lot?
IIRC, Mr Meeks is not a Conservative.
In 30 years I’ve never heard a Tory suggest anything remotely as unpleasant as that.
It suggests that @AlastairMeeks views fellow citizens with contempt
What a nasty man he has turned into
On a day that the PM compared Corbyn to Stalin on the front page of the Telegraph, you're having a fit of the vapours over Alastair's hyperbole ?
Point of order - I think what Alastair was engaged in on this occasion was persiflage, not hyperbole.
Yes lets pretend the party that has been in govt the last decade and most of the last century is not the establishment elite. Nor the Eton educated PM or his lackeys such as Baron Rees-Mogg the hedge fund managing son of the editor of the Times.
How easily people are persuaded of nonsense in pursuit of this Brexit religion. Black is white and white is black as long as the temples are led by believers.
You are sort of making my point for me.
I read your post and it screams furious remainer who would love to overturn the result of the referendum in a heartbeat.
On the subject of Brexit there is clearly little to no common ground between us which is probably representative of the country at large now.
That's why this is a fight to the metaphorical death but once it is done it's done.
Normality can return.
Normality cannot return until the UK breaks up. If Brexit happens, then it's a matter of time before Scotland and Northern Ireland are gone, and if Brexit doesn't, the forces that led to it will be channelled into demands for English sovereignty.
Yes lets pretend the party that has been in govt the last decade and most of the last century is not the establishment elite. Nor the Eton educated PM or his lackeys such as Baron Rees-Mogg the hedge fund managing son of the editor of the Times.
How easily people are persuaded of nonsense in pursuit of this Brexit religion. Black is white and white is black as long as the temples are led by believers.
You are sort of making my point for me.
I read your post and it screams furious remainer who would love to overturn the result of the referendum in a heartbeat.
On the subject of Brexit there is clearly little to no common ground between us which is probably representative of the country at large now.
That's why this is a fight to the metaphorical death but once it is done it's done.
This may be slightly counter intuitive but I wonder if Kay Burley might get in some hot water over this mornings antics..... aggressively no chairing someone not booked on your show in an election campaign? Shes got her gotcha moment but is it a self gotcha?
Rumours she is to be reported to Ofcom
She deserves to be
Not immediately obvious why: she gives all parties a hard time and offers right of reply, which on this occasion the Tories declined to use.
He was on air doing a scheduled broadcast for Talk Radio (in the same building) when Kay gave him the empty chair treatment.
Kay / Sky may have tried to add a last minute interview with him as he was in the building, but her reaction seems OTT.
Maybe Kay was offended that she was stood up for a mere radio interview with Julia Hartley Beermaker.
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party membership.
Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.
We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
Unfortunate is an interesting choice of word, it is not misfortune that has led us here but the deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
Exactly. The loss of people like Rory Stewart is deliberate. @DavidL may bemoan it as unfortunate but he is still going to vote for the party which caused it and which prefers people like Priti Patel, Andrew Bridgen and Mark Francois to represent it.
Yes the PB Tory knack of decrying the loss of moderates then going out to vote for the likes of Andrea Jenkyns (eg @Morris_Dancer) is rather unfortunate, to put it mildly.
Yes lets pretend the party that has been in govt the last decade and most of the last century is not the establishment elite. Nor the Eton educated PM or his lackeys such as Baron Rees-Mogg the hedge fund managing son of the editor of the Times.
How easily people are persuaded of nonsense in pursuit of this Brexit religion. Black is white and white is black as long as the temples are led by believers.
You are sort of making my point for me.
I read your post and it screams furious remainer who would love to overturn the result of the referendum in a heartbeat.
On the subject of Brexit there is clearly little to no common ground between us which is probably representative of the country at large now.
That's why this is a fight to the metaphorical death but once it is done it's done.
Normality can return.
I have been advocating a Brexit deal since one has been offered. If I was an MP I would have voted admittedly reluctantly for Mays deal or even Johnson's worse deal. In the imaginery scenario it was up to me I would have chosen SM/CU Brexit, not remain. You are not listening but misinterpreting anyone who is not of the same mindset as a furious remainer.
This may be slightly counter intuitive but I wonder if Kay Burley might get in some hot water over this mornings antics..... aggressively no chairing someone not booked on your show in an election campaign? Shes got her gotcha moment but is it a self gotcha?
Rumours she is to be reported to Ofcom
She deserves to be
Not immediately obvious why: she gives all parties a hard time and offers right of reply, which on this occasion the Tories declined to use.
He was on air doing a scheduled broadcast for Talk Radio (in the same building) when Kay gave him the empty chair treatment.
Kay / Sky may have tried to add a last minute interview with him as he was in the building, but her reaction seems OTT.
Maybe Kay was offended that she was stood up for a mere radio interview with Julia Hartley Beermaker.
Have a look at the timestamps on each - the talk radio interview is rather later, and I think refers to the empty chair incident.
This may be slightly counter intuitive but I wonder if Kay Burley might get in some hot water over this mornings antics..... aggressively no chairing someone not booked on your show in an election campaign? Shes got her gotcha moment but is it a self gotcha?
Rumours she is to be reported to Ofcom
She deserves to be
Not immediately obvious why: she gives all parties a hard time and offers right of reply, which on this occasion the Tories declined to use.
He was on air doing a scheduled broadcast for Talk Radio (in the same building) when Kay gave him the empty chair treatment.
Kay / Sky may have tries to add a last minute interview with him as he was in the building, but her reaction seems OTT.
Maybe Kay was offended that she was stood up for a mere radio interview with Julia Hartley Beermaker.
She had a list of prepared questions in her hand and proceeded to address them to an empty chair. An interview had not been arranged. Perhaps there was a cockup behind the scenes but she didn't even try to extemporise. Hardly impressive.
Labour's ruling body, the NEC, was also considering the case of former Leicester East MP Keith Vaz and it's understood no final decision has been made on whether he can stand for the party again.
Mr Vaz was suspended by Parliament for six months after he was found to have "expressed willingness" to purchase cocaine for male prostitutes.
There are no criminal charges being brought, he denies it (however unconvincingly) and the CLP adopted him as a candidate. It probably depends on how the Labour rulebook is written and legal advice.
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party membership.
Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.
We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.
Presumably you won't be casting your vote for the Tories then David?
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party membership.
Personally I would rather Boris doesn't try and run a minority government and instead vote down any alternative suggested.
We can go back to the polls again where I would expect voters to coalesce around a single alternative.
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
Unfortunate is an interesting choice of word, it is not misfortune that has led us here but the deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
Exactly. The loss of people like Rory Stewart is deliberate. @DavidL may bemoan it as unfortunate but he is still going to vote for the party which caused it and which prefers people like Priti Patel, Andrew Bridgen and Mark Francois to represent it.
The choice available at this election is distinctly sub-optimal. But choices have to be made. I remain hopeful that once the hysteria of Brexit dies away the manifest and patent incompetence and ineptitude of those you name will curtail their careers.
Why do you think that? They will have won an election on the back of votes like yours. They will see it as vindication of their views and actions. If they get the sort of majority the polls seem to indicate they may, they will be without any sort of restraint and no amount of moaning by sensible people like you will make an iota of difference. There are choices - sub-optimal ones, maybe - other than the Tories or Labour.
By using the Lib Dem and Conservative national vote share together the Ross, Skye and Lochaber totals almost perfectly fits a linear model for predicting the LD vote.
It's so good I might need to double check I haven't fucked up somehow.
But if true then Lib Dems polling 13% in Scotland puts them on 38% of the vote in Ross Skye And Lochaber and within striking range of Blackford.
You haven't been up all night doing this, have you?
Lol, thanks to the joy of Python and scikitlearn this has been a pretty trivial exercise.
I'm pretty gobsmacked at how simple this seems, I was expecting a much more complicated relationship between the 4 parties and turnout but a straight up linear regressions explains the last 4 elections for the LD and Con in Ross Skye and Lochaber and in West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine.
Now I just need to a little data lunging and I can see how well this holds across Scotland and start to bet accordingly when the polls come rolling in.
Labour's ruling body, the NEC, was also considering the case of former Leicester East MP Keith Vaz and it's understood no final decision has been made on whether he can stand for the party again.
Mr Vaz was suspended by Parliament for six months after he was found to have "expressed willingness" to purchase cocaine for male prostitutes.
There are no criminal charges being brought, he denies it (however unconvincingly) and the CLP adopted him as a candidate. It probably depends on how the Labour rulebook is written and legal advice.
There is no worry for Vaz.
He has his washing machine and decorating business to fall back on.
I doubt whether any of these campaign 'disasters' will cut through to voting intention TBH. Probably only the Rees-Mogg gaffe will be noticed by ordinary people, and they are either ardent Leavers who will forgive him anything because he's an ardent Leaver, or they are not in which case they already think he's a dork and won't be surprised to see their opinion confirmed.
None of this will affect the campaign, which only really starts today.
Nevertheless the Tories need to be much more disciplined for the next 5 weeks.
This may be slightly counter intuitive but I wonder if Kay Burley might get in some hot water over this mornings antics..... aggressively no chairing someone not booked on your show in an election campaign? Shes got her gotcha moment but is it a self gotcha?
Rumours she is to be reported to Ofcom
She deserves to be
Not immediately obvious why: she gives all parties a hard time and offers right of reply, which on this occasion the Tories declined to use.
He was on air doing a scheduled broadcast for Talk Radio (in the same building) when Kay gave him the empty chair treatment.
Kay / Sky may have tries to add a last minute interview with him as he was in the building, but her reaction seems OTT.
Maybe Kay was offended that she was stood up for a mere radio interview with Julia Hartley Beermaker.
She had a list of prepared questions in her hand and proceeded to address them to an empty chair. An interview had not been arranged. Perhaps there was a cockup behind the scenes but she didn't even try to extemporise. Hardly impressive.
Will it be relevant to Ofcom that we were still in the few hours before the Queen approved the dissolution of parliament?
Labour's ruling body, the NEC, was also considering the case of former Leicester East MP Keith Vaz and it's understood no final decision has been made on whether he can stand for the party again.
Mr Vaz was suspended by Parliament for six months after he was found to have "expressed willingness" to purchase cocaine for male prostitutes.
There are no criminal charges being brought, he denies it (however unconvincingly) and the CLP adopted him as a candidate. It probably depends on how the Labour rulebook is written and legal advice.
Even if true, does procuring icing sugar matter that much any more or has the Conservative leadership election moved the Overton window?
The Grenfell firefighters did their bloody best. Sure, question their commanders and their orders but do not question their commitment.
If there's one thing that utterly utterly pisses me off it's the sort of comment @nunu2 made about the rank and file officers somehow being culpable for what unfolded. And there is far too much of that around Grenfell.
If that Ipsos Mori poll is new, why are the changes listed since September?
It's not. It's their Oct 25-28 poll, reheated.
Nick, any thoughts on Ashfield?
I don't know anything about the current squabble. When I was in Broxtowe next door, Ashfield politics was famously internecine with real venom within and across parties. The LibDems were the worst but Labour and Tories weren't far behind, and it was reinforced by scurrilous anonymous leaflets which were (fairly or not, who knows) generally thought to be from the BNP. It seemed to have settled down under Gloria so I'm sorry to see they're at it again.
This may be slightly counter intuitive but I wonder if Kay Burley might get in some hot water over this mornings antics..... aggressively no chairing someone not booked on your show in an election campaign? Shes got her gotcha moment but is it a self gotcha?
Rumours she is to be reported to Ofcom
She deserves to be
Not immediately obvious why: she gives all parties a hard time and offers right of reply, which on this occasion the Tories declined to use.
He was on air doing a scheduled broadcast for Talk Radio (in the same building) when Kay gave him the empty chair treatment.
Kay / Sky may have tries to add a last minute interview with him as he was in the building, but her reaction seems OTT.
Maybe Kay was offended that she was stood up for a mere radio interview with Julia Hartley Beermaker.
She had a list of prepared questions in her hand and proceeded to address them to an empty chair. An interview had not been arranged. Perhaps there was a cockup behind the scenes but she didn't even try to extemporise. Hardly impressive.
Will it be relevant to Ofcom that we were still in the few hours before the Queen approved the dissolution of parliament?
If that Ipsos Mori poll is new, why are the changes listed since September?
It's not. It's their Oct 25-28 poll, reheated.
Nick, any thoughts on Ashfield?
I don't know anything about the current squabble. When I was in Broxtowe next door, Ashfield politics was famously internecine with real venom within and across parties. The LibDems were the worst but Labour and Tories weren't far behind, and it was reinforced by scurrilous anonymous leaflets which were (fairly or not, who knows) generally thought to be from the BNP. It seemed to have settled down under Gloria so I'm sorry to see they're at it again.
Ashfield is so difficult to call it could have been designed by the Only Connect team.
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
Unfortunate is an interesting choice of word, it is not misfortune that has led us here but the deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
Exactly. The loss of people like Rory Stewart is deliberate. @DavidL may bemoan it as unfortunate but he is still going to vote for the party which caused it and which prefers people like Priti Patel, Andrew Bridgen and Mark Francois to represent it.
The choice available at this election is distinctly sub-optimal. But choices have to be made. I remain hopeful that once the hysteria of Brexit dies away the manifest and patent incompetence and ineptitude of those you name will curtail their careers.
Why do you think that? They will have won an election on the back of votes like yours. They will see it as vindication of their views and actions. If they get the sort of majority the polls seem to indicate they may, they will be without any sort of restraint and no amount of moaning by sensible people like you will make an iota of difference. There are choices - sub-optimal ones, maybe - other than the Tories or Labour.
That is what every reluctant Tory voter needs to be aware of, that and the make up of the new Tory intake. There will be no going back to one nation conservatism. The same is true of labour.
The Grenfell firefighters did their bloody best. Sure, question their commanders and their orders but do not question their commitment.
If there's one thing that utterly utterly pisses me off it's the sort of comment @nunu2 made about the rank and file officers somehow being culpable for what unfolded. And there is far too much of that around Grenfell.
Oh God, please don’t let any journalists ask a Tory MP whether those at the scene should have disobeyed the orders of those in command.
That is what every reluctant Tory voter needs to be aware of, that and the make up of the new Tory intake. There will be no going back to one nation conservatism. The same is true of labour.
Well, as regards Labour, I should damn well hope not
That is what every reluctant Tory voter needs to be aware of, that and the make up of the new Tory intake. There will be no going back to one nation conservatism. The same is true of labour.
People need to calm down a bit. Francois et al are a very public element of the Tories. They have always been there, however, and it is true that Boris has enabled them to shine, if that's the right word, for the moment.
But there is a vast swathe of Cons MPs, even allowing for the hugely regretted number stepping down, who are decent, centre right types who would no sooner think of endorsing Francois as they would of jumping off a cliff, especially a Brexit one. The Party hasn't completely transformed in a matter of days.
The rump Conservatives remain sensible and ones deserving of sensible peoples' votes. It is my belief that they won't allow the loons to take control of the keys any time soon.
That is what every reluctant Tory voter needs to be aware of, that and the make up of the new Tory intake. There will be no going back to one nation conservatism. The same is true of labour.
Disagree.
If politics were cricket then this election will see the T20 Brexit side out in the field looking to blast the opposition in a quick victory.
As soon as Brexit is over the line then the test match side will re-appear, with Captain Boris heading up a one-nation team, moving back to the centre of the pitch as the opposition disappear ever leftwards to the boundary ropes.
I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?
The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.
Is urinating on homeless people something you think about a lot?
IIRC, Mr Meeks is not a Conservative.
In 30 years I’ve never heard a Tory suggest anything remotely as unpleasant as that.
It suggests that @AlastairMeeks views fellow citizens with contempt
What a nasty man he has turned into
On a day that the PM compared Corbyn to Stalin on the front page of the Telegraph, you're having a fit of the vapours over Alastair's hyperbole ?
Point of order - I think what Alastair was engaged in on this occasion was persiflage, not hyperbole.
You are quite right to correct me. Though one might claim it was hyperbolic persiflage ?
That is what every reluctant Tory voter needs to be aware of, that and the make up of the new Tory intake. There will be no going back to one nation conservatism. The same is true of labour.
People need to calm down a bit. Francois et al are a very public element of the Tories. They have always been there, however, and it is true that Boris has enabled them to shine, if that's the right word, for the moment.
But there is a vast swathe of Cons MPs, even allowing for the hugely regretted number stepping down, who are decent, centre right types who would no sooner think of endorsing Francois as they would of jumping off a cliff, especially a Brexit one. The Party hasn't completely transformed in a matter of days.
The rump Conservatives remain sensible and ones deserving of sensible peoples' votes. It is my belief that they won't allow the loons to take control of the keys any time soon.
Do you put Johnson and Cummings in the sensible category?
The Grenfell firefighters did their bloody best. Sure, question their commanders and their orders but do not question their commitment.
If there's one thing that utterly utterly pisses me off it's the sort of comment @nunu2 made about the rank and file officers somehow being culpable for what unfolded. And there is far too much of that around Grenfell.
Oh God, please don’t let any journalists ask a Tory MP whether those at the scene should have disobeyed the orders of those in command.
It stops them asking about the Mayor's cuts to the fire service.
That is what every reluctant Tory voter needs to be aware of, that and the make up of the new Tory intake. There will be no going back to one nation conservatism. The same is true of labour.
Disagree.
If politics were cricket then this election will see the T20 Brexit side out in the field looking to blast the opposition in a quick victory.
As soon as Brexit is over the line then the test match side will re-appear, with Captain Boris heading up a one-nation team, moving back to the centre of the pitch as the opposition disappear ever leftwards to the boundary ropes.
Or something.
"As soon as Brexit is over..." is the bit people are deluding themselves about.
If that Ipsos Mori poll is new, why are the changes listed since September?
It's not. It's their Oct 25-28 poll, reheated.
Nick, any thoughts on Ashfield?
I don't know anything about the current squabble. When I was in Broxtowe next door, Ashfield politics was famously internecine with real venom within and across parties. The LibDems were the worst but Labour and Tories weren't far behind, and it was reinforced by scurrilous anonymous leaflets which were (fairly or not, who knows) generally thought to be from the BNP. It seemed to have settled down under Gloria so I'm sorry to see they're at it again.
I wonder if the person I was once Lib agent for moved there! She could be VERY difficult when she put her mind to it.
Living in a marginal Lab-Con constituency, I am astonished that with just 5 weeks to go there is next to nothing so far to suggest that a general election is going on here. Just a small A5 flyer from Labour with virtually no content and a couple of pretty routine mentions for the MP and challenger in the local paper. That's it. A complete contrast from the years worth of continuous bumpf that we received in 2015 (especially from the Tories) and so far nothing even to match the more concentrated 2017 campaign.
It wasn't as though an Autumn GE wasn't highly likely and yet it is obvious that both the Conservatives and Labour have failed to take action nationally to prepare their ground game in key constituencies at a national level, relying on local parties to instigate early campaigning (or not, at least here). I excuse the LDs since there is absolutely no reason for them to mount more than a paper campaign here.
I doubt whether any of these campaign 'disasters' will cut through to voting intention TBH. Probably only the Rees-Mogg gaffe will be noticed by ordinary people, and they are either ardent Leavers who will forgive him anything because he's an ardent Leaver, or they are not in which case they already think he's a dork and won't be surprised to see their opinion confirmed.
None of this will affect the campaign, which only really starts today.
Nevertheless the Tories need to be much more disciplined for the next 5 weeks.
The so called Starmer gaffe has lead to 820,000 views of the Tory video. I'm sure they are extremely happy with those numbers and the discussion of Labour's messy policy. That they edited the footage to dramatise their point is neither here or there.
I wonder what treats we have in store for the rest of the day. Film of Sajid Javid urinating on a homeless man? Liz Truss launching a verbal tirade against David Attenborough? Priti Patel musing on the good side of Fred West?
The imagination of the Conservative master strategists to date has been flawless.
Is urinating on homeless people something you think about a lot?
IIRC, Mr Meeks is not a Conservative.
In 30 years I’ve never heard a Tory suggest anything remotely as unpleasant as that.
It suggests that @AlastairMeeks views fellow citizens with contempt
What a nasty man he has turned into
Rubbish. As an example of how disgusting they can be how about when the Conservatives in Guildford spread the false story that the political blogger Tim Ireland was a paedophile? He even wrote to Anne Milton with the evidence that Denis Paul (subsequently a councillor) was behind it - and did not even get a reply. I am not suggesting Labour are any better, but you must live in a fantasy world if you think the Conservatives have clean hands.
...other candidates were available who would have been far better at leading a minority govt.
Who would have stopped Brexit you mean?
They were never going to be elected by the party
Rory Stewart, for example, specifically ruled out stopping Brexit. You are misinterpreting his willingness to build consensus as stopping Brexit despite his explicit assurances to the contrary. Then making the leap that it is only possible to build consensus by stopping Brexit. His plan was Brexit with consensus through different style and language, it would have had me and plenty of former tories on board.
If Ken Clarke was a living reminder of past glories Rory Stewart was the future. He is a terrible loss to the party and indeed to politics (I know he's standing for London Mayor but I mean serious politics). If people like him cannot find a home we head down the path to ever greater division, the dialogue of the deaf and total disillusionment. Its very unfortunate.
Unfortunate is an interesting choice of word, it is not misfortune that has led us here but the deliberate shift of the Tory party from a conservative, unionist and pro business party into an English populist nationalist party that cares only about the latest polls.
Exactly. The loss of people like Rory Stewart is deliberate. @DavidL may bemoan it as unfortunate but he is still going to vote for the party which caused it and which prefers people like Priti Patel, Andrew Bridgen and Mark Francois to represent it.
The choice available at this election is distinctly sub-optimal. But choices have to be made. I remain hopeful that once the hysteria of Brexit dies away the manifest and patent incompetence and ineptitude of those you name will curtail their careers.
Why do you think that? They will have won an election on the back of votes like yours. They will see it as vindication of their views and actions. If they get the sort of majority the polls seem to indicate they may, they will be without any sort of restraint and no amount of moaning by sensible people like you will make an iota of difference. There are choices - sub-optimal ones, maybe - other than the Tories or Labour.
That is what every reluctant Tory voter needs to be aware of, that and the make up of the new Tory intake. There will be no going back to one nation conservatism. The same is true of labour.
If you're right of centre, and pro-Brexit, who is there to vote for, apart from the Conservatives?
That is what every reluctant Tory voter needs to be aware of, that and the make up of the new Tory intake. There will be no going back to one nation conservatism. The same is true of labour.
Disagree.
If politics were cricket then this election will see the T20 Brexit side out in the field looking to blast the opposition in a quick victory.
As soon as Brexit is over the line then the test match side will re-appear, with Captain Boris heading up a one-nation team, moving back to the centre of the pitch as the opposition disappear ever leftwards to the boundary ropes.
Or something.
"As soon as Brexit is over..." is the bit people are deluding themselves about.
Brexit will never be over.
To the person in the street brexit will be over when the PM no longer goes to Brussels every month and then holds a stupid presser. The EU summits will be a footnote in the news not a main headline.
The Grenfell firefighters did their bloody best. Sure, question their commanders and their orders but do not question their commitment.
If there's one thing that utterly utterly pisses me off it's the sort of comment @nunu2 made about the rank and file officers somehow being culpable for what unfolded. And there is far too much of that around Grenfell.
Oh God, please don’t let any journalists ask a Tory MP whether those at the scene should have disobeyed the orders of those in command.
It stops them asking about the Mayor's cuts to the fire service.
Comments
So I clicked in and heard the following, addressed by Mogg to his interlocutor -
"I mean, if you or I were in a burning building, whatever the fire brigade told us to do, we would leave the burning building. It just seems like the common sense thing to do."
That will take some beating for ghastliness.
It's like that old saw about libel damaging one's reputation in the eyes of right-thinking people: it is only possible if one has any reputation left to damage in the first place.
There isn't a consensus to be had pre-Brexit.
However, once this particular hurdle has been cleared I would expect the Conservatives to return to a broader, one-nation party.
At which point hopefully former Tory remainers will be willing to move on and look to the future.
Labour getting a grip???
By using the Lib Dem and Conservative national vote share together the Ross, Skye and Lochaber totals almost perfectly fits a linear model for predicting the LD vote.
It's so good I might need to double check I haven't fucked up somehow.
But if true then Lib Dems polling 13% in Scotland puts them on 38% of the vote in Ross Skye And Lochaber and within striking range of Blackford.
Which is why he was never going to be given the chance.
Fast forward 5 years and the picture will look completely different.
...is another persons 'respecter of the referendum result against the establishment elite'.
We get to choose our definitions next month.
She deserves to be
Arguing about a future relationship is fine...working to overturn the referendum result isn't.
A PR system would offer more than one opportunity for moderates to find a political home - as it is, there is the slightly uncomfortable or uncertain broad church offered by the Lib Dems.
How easily people are persuaded of nonsense in pursuit of this Brexit religion. Black is white and white is black as long as the temples are led by believers.
https://twitter.com/karavoght/status/1192073204166209537
Kay was royally pissed-off.
Labour's ruling body, the NEC, was also considering the case of former Leicester East MP Keith Vaz and it's understood no final decision has been made on whether he can stand for the party again.
Mr Vaz was suspended by Parliament for six months after he was found to have "expressed willingness" to purchase cocaine for male prostitutes.
https://tinyurl.com/y4gqrghb
I read your post and it screams furious remainer who would love to overturn the result of the referendum in a heartbeat.
On the subject of Brexit there is clearly little to no common ground between us which is probably representative of the country at large now.
That's why this is a fight to the metaphorical death but once it is done it's done.
Normality can return.
The truth is the Firefighters made huge mistakes that night and need to answer for them.
JRM is still a prat tho.
So no US trade deal?
Sorry for being picky but.
Kay / Sky may have tried to add a last minute interview with him as he was in the building, but her reaction seems OTT.
Maybe Kay was offended that she was stood up for a mere radio interview with Julia Hartley Beermaker.
I'm pretty gobsmacked at how simple this seems, I was expecting a much more complicated relationship between the 4 parties and turnout but a straight up linear regressions explains the last 4 elections for the LD and Con in Ross Skye and Lochaber and in West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine.
Now I just need to a little data lunging and I can see how well this holds across Scotland and start to bet accordingly when the polls come rolling in.
He has his washing machine and decorating business to fall back on.
Nevertheless the Tories need to be much more disciplined for the next 5 weeks.
If there's one thing that utterly utterly pisses me off it's the sort of comment @nunu2 made about the rank and file officers somehow being culpable for what unfolded.
And there is far too much of that around Grenfell.
Will be using it at the very first opportunity.
I think Kay has gone a little overboard but it will get sorted i'm sure.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/04/swing-state-polling-suggests-donald-trumps-2020-re-election/
But there is a vast swathe of Cons MPs, even allowing for the hugely regretted number stepping down, who are decent, centre right types who would no sooner think of endorsing Francois as they would of jumping off a cliff, especially a Brexit one. The Party hasn't completely transformed in a matter of days.
The rump Conservatives remain sensible and ones deserving of sensible peoples' votes. It is my belief that they won't allow the loons to take control of the keys any time soon.
If politics were cricket then this election will see the T20 Brexit side out in the field looking to blast the opposition in a quick victory.
As soon as Brexit is over the line then the test match side will re-appear, with Captain Boris heading up a one-nation team, moving back to the centre of the pitch as the opposition disappear ever leftwards to the boundary ropes.
Or something.
https://twitter.com/326Pols/status/1191756161596493829?s=20
Though one might claim it was hyperbolic persiflage ?
Brexit will never be over.
It wasn't as though an Autumn GE wasn't highly likely and yet it is obvious that both the Conservatives and Labour have failed to take action nationally to prepare their ground game in key constituencies at a national level, relying on local parties to instigate early campaigning (or not, at least here). I excuse the LDs since there is absolutely no reason for them to mount more than a paper campaign here.
I quickly looked up the latest polling on Real Clear Politics. Biden and Warren hold big double digit leads over Trumpton in the latest polls.
Tell me, are those polls wildly 'wrong' or is this CNN analysis based on rum data?
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/national_general_election/
https://youtu.be/UN3e-aYUusc