Boris was childish but so is this nonsense coming from remainers. The letter was served, Tusk has received it, and is actioning it
Time remainers acted like grown ups as well
You are gaslightinglied about the manner in which the letter was served.
?
Except it wasn't an unsigned check or contract, it was a letter provided by the UK official representative on behalf of the Prime Minister setting out the position of the UK Parliament. It seemed to satisfy them.
If Benn wanted it signed by the PM, perhaps he should have written it into law.
Along with the blood type.....
You're right, of course. Johnson has completely outsmarted Benn, who must be feeling comprehensively humiliated now.
And the effect of the Benn Act has been....what? To force a Deal (that Remainers don't want)? They aren't exactly toasting Benn's name in European capitals this weekend.....
It’s done exactly what it was supposed to do - allow a day of triumphant Remoaners to crow on Twitter about Johnson sending the letter.
While the vast majority of Tories and Leavers remain fully behind Boris against those smug, triumphant Remaoners....
Weren’t they a punk band ?
Beat on the brat Beat on the brat Beat on the smug, traitorous, Rermoaner brat with a baseball bat (or Spanish riot police truncheon if available)
What did you think of @malcolmg concession on the last thread that there won’t be Scottish independence for at least 40 years?
what bollox, where did I ever say that, it is coming soon t
You said that it was understandable JRM taking his kid to the most significant day in Parliament for at least the next 40 years.
Clearly the approval of the Scottish Independence Act would be even more significant so therefore it can’t be happening in the next 40 years...
Come on Charles that is pushing the envelope a bit. Malc made a perfectly reasonable comment which really doesn't deserve to be twisted in that way to score cheap points. You are better than that.
I understand the second point but the first one seems weird. The vote as passed is a very specific point which completely negated the original motion. If Bercow says it cannot be brought back tomorrow citing the rules on the same motion in the same session, then how can the Government bring back the motion at the end of the legislation? In which case there can be no meaningful vote.
But surely that is what the Commons agreed to yesterday - ie'withold approval until..'
Indeed. But I assume that means the motion will have to be brought back.
We were assured this was a myth and part of Project Fear, but if you want to pay £6 for a punnet of strawberries that's your call.
How is a shortage now, before brexit, the fault of brexit?
Directly because the Brexit vote caused a fall in the pound that makes UK wages less attractive internationally
Indirectly because Brexit has made immigrants feel unwelcome. Most immigrants have choices and are choosing not to come to the UK in such large numbers.
We can make a number of remarks about this. a) You might say making immigrants unwelcome is the whole point of Brexit. It's a feature, not a bug. b) You don't need to Brexit to be horrible to foreigners. c) While this might reduce immigration, it isn't control in any real sense. The more marketable immigrants will stay away. Hence the lack of apple pickers.
Apple pickers are the 'more marketable immigrants' ???
Apple pickers ???
Who needs doctors or scientists or engineers when you can have an economy based on apple pickers.
Sigh.
If you grow apples for a business, pickers are kind of important.
Then they need to employ people to pick them and they do that by offering fair pay and conditions
If they're not willing to do that then why should anyone have any sympathy for them ?
We were assured this was a myth and part of Project Fear, but if you want to pay £6 for a punnet of strawberries that's your call.
How is a shortage now, before brexit, the fault of brexit?
Directly because the Brexit vote caused a fall in the pound that makes UK wages less attractive internationally
Indirectly because Brexit has made immigrants feel unwelcome. Most immigrants have choices and are choosing not to come to the UK in such large numbers.
We can make a number of remarks about this. a) You might say making immigrants unwelcome is the whole point of Brexit. It's a feature, not a bug. b) You don't need to Brexit to be horrible to foreigners. c) While this might reduce immigration, it isn't control in any real sense. The more marketable immigrants will stay away. Hence the lack of apple pickers.
Apple pickers are the 'more marketable immigrants' ???
Apple pickers ???
Who needs doctors or scientists or engineers when you can have an economy based on apple pickers.
We were very well regarded by the local population
We gave most of our land to the tenants - the theory was we didn’t have the cash to save them but at least they could die on their own land.
... it makes sense in an Irish context ..,
And how - exactly - was that land acquired and from whom?
Mostly through purchase or marriage over the years. We were lawyers and merchants not warriors.
You need to explain - not to me - the context. You see no-one was purchasing land in the 11th century.
And later the native Catholics were not allowed to own any land, were forced into being tenants (at best) and dependant on the charity or not of those who lorded it over them. Your family's peaceful purchases were made possible by the fighting of others and the deprivation by others of their country and means of earning a living.
British rule in Ireland and British treatment of the Irish was not in any sense benevolent. However nice your family may have been it benefited from a political and economic structure which prioritised its interests above others in Ireland and which made possible its comfortable lifestyle. What happened during the 1920’s did not come out of nowhere.
We were one of the Tribes of Galway. Merchants who performed well and made money from trade from the 14th century onwards. We’d arrived in the 11th century but were of no particular significance.
Who can forget the zip, nada, nothing, null reaction when Salmond waved a wee Saltire at Wimbledon?
Just imagine what it would be like now the English have disappeared down the hysteria rabbit hole?
I really can't believe you are doubling down on this. No-one, but no-one, would give a flying proverbial if Sturgeon wore some Saltire earrings. Do you really agree with the original Tweeter's meltdown about Jo Swinson's patriotic earwear?
We were assured this was a myth and part of Project Fear, but if you want to pay £6 for a punnet of strawberries that's your call.
How is a shortage now, before brexit, the fault of brexit?
Directly because the Brexit vote caused a fall in the pound that makes UK wages less attractive internationally
Indirectly because Brexit has made immigrants feel unwelcome. Most immigrants have choices and are choosing not to come to the UK in such large numbers.
We can make a number of remarks about this. a) You might say making immigrants unwelcome is the whole point of Brexit. It's a feature, not a bug. b) You don't need to Brexit to be horrible to foreigners. c) While this might reduce immigration, it isn't control in any real sense. The more marketable immigrants will stay away. Hence the lack of apple pickers.
Apple pickers are the 'more marketable immigrants' ???
Apple pickers ???
Who needs doctors or scientists or engineers when you can have an economy based on apple pickers.
It is going to come down to a showdown on the votes later in the week. Second reading will be the biggie and then we’ll see where we get to with the tussle on amendments. But tomorrow? Nah.
Seems like an obvious loss for the goverment - an extension beyond 31 Oct has already been asked for, its only Boris who is committed politically to that date, and for everyone else either they really do want time to scrutinise the legislation, and it's not unreasonable to think that might take at least 2 weeks, and the others want to drag it out and humilate Boris/chip away at the labour rebels and ex-cons through various amendments.
Until Orban says no more extensions. For the shitz n gigglez.
So the Deal's already finished, thanks to Letwin. It doesn't matter a damn that he's now "supporting" it, now that he's crippled any chance of it getting through. I wonder how Labour would react if their flagship policy got torpedoed by a "well-meaning" backbench amendment?
Wouldn’t say that’s a huge problem to be honest. They’re bringing the vote tomorrow, in my view, because they very much expect Bercow to kick it out and they can continue the remainer parliament narrative.
It is going to come down to a showdown on the votes later in the week. Second reading will be the biggie and then we’ll see where we get to with the tussle on amendments. But tomorrow? Nah.
Also - will the Programme motion for the WAIB be approved?
They are going to vote down a motion for the bill to even be debated? Their only goal is to obstruct Brexit at this point.
No - they will simply wantt a more extended time to debate it rather than agreeing to have it rushed through over a few days.
Then why are they trying to delay the introduction of the bill? (for context, see the tweet upthread about pushing the bill until next week)
'Entirely possible MPs try and push programme motion for WAIB *beyond* this week,' If that is what you are referring to, I think it means the progress of the WAIB will not be restricted to this week - but extend to the following week.
We were very well regarded by the local population
We gave most of our land to the tenants - the theory was we didn’t have the cash to save them but at least they could die on their own land.
... it makes sense in an Irish context ..,
And how - exactly - was that land acquired and from whom?
Mostly through purchase or marriage over the years. We were lawyers and merchants not warriors.
You need to explain - not to me - the context. You see no-one was purchasing land in the 11th century.
And later the native Catholics were not allowed to own any land, were forced into being tenants (at best) and dependant on the charity or not of those who lorded it over them. Your family's peaceful purchases were made possible by the fighting of others and the deprivation by others of their country and means of earning a living.
British rule in Ireland and British treatment of the Irish was not in any sense benevolent. However nice your family may have been it benefited from a political and economic structure which prioritised its interests above others in Ireland and which made possible its comfortable lifestyle. What happened during the 1920’s did not come out of nowhere.
We were one of the Tribes of Galway. Merchants who performed well and made money from trade from the 14th century onwards. We’d arrived in the 11th century but were of no particular significance.
We were also Catholics for much of that time.
If you trace your family tree back to the 11th century, I'm sure the "we" of your ancestors would include a far more diverse group of people.
Who can forget the zip, nada, nothing, null reaction when Salmond waved a wee Saltire at Wimbledon?
Just imagine what it would be like now the English have disappeared down the hysteria rabbit hole?
Wearing a pair of earrings that you have to literally pause and zoom your TV into? Seriously? The “hysteria” at Wimbledon was more about the fact that waving flags, any flag, is not the “done thing” on Centre Court and even then it was mostly the Mail.
Here’s a picture of her playing a Saltire f***ing ukulele in 2017. No one gave a shit.
It is going to come down to a showdown on the votes later in the week. Second reading will be the biggie and then we’ll see where we get to with the tussle on amendments. But tomorrow? Nah.
Seems like an obvious loss for the goverment - an extension beyond 31 Oct has already been asked for, its only Boris who is committed politically to that date, and for everyone else either they really do want time to scrutinise the legislation, and it's not unreasonable to think that might take at least 2 weeks, and the others want to drag it out and humilate Boris/chip away at the labour rebels and ex-cons through various amendments.
Until Orban says no more extensions. For the shitz n gigglez.
Even assuming he does, that is not likely before the programme motion vote surely?
We were assured this was a myth and part of Project Fear, but if you want to pay £6 for a punnet of strawberries that's your call.
How is a shortage now, before brexit, the fault of brexit?
Directly because the Brexit vote caused a fall in the pound that makes UK wages less attractive internationally
Indirectly because Brexit has made immigrants feel unwelcome. Most immigrants have choices and are choosing not to come to the UK in such large numbers.
We can make a number of remarks about this. a) You might say making immigrants unwelcome is the whole point of Brexit. It's a feature, not a bug. b) You don't need to Brexit to be horrible to foreigners. c) While this might reduce immigration, it isn't control in any real sense. The more marketable immigrants will stay away. Hence the lack of apple pickers.
Apple pickers are the 'more marketable immigrants' ???
Apple pickers ???
Who needs doctors or scientists or engineers when you can have an economy based on apple pickers.
Both main parties are devising policy on the basis that money grows on trees, so that would be in keeping.
On this I fear the politicians are only giving the people what they want.
I suppose it will have to come to an end at some point but I also thought that a decade ago.
Wouldn’t say that’s a huge problem to be honest. They’re bringing the vote tomorrow, in my view, because they very much expect Bercow to kick it out and they can continue the remainer parliament narrative.
It is going to come down to a showdown on the votes later in the week. Second reading will be the biggie and then we’ll see where we get to with the tussle on amendments. But tomorrow? Nah.
Also - will the Programme motion for the WAIB be approved?
They are going to vote down a motion for the bill to even be debated? Their only goal is to obstruct Brexit at this point.
No - they will simply wantt a more extended time to debate it rather than agreeing to have it rushed through over a few days.
Then why are they trying to delay the introduction of the bill? (for context, see the tweet upthread about pushing the bill until next week)
'Entirely possible MPs try and push programme motion for WAIB *beyond* this week,' If that is what you are referring to, I think it means the progress of the WAIB will not be restricted to this week - but extend to the following week.
You might be right, but I'm deeply suspicious about all these games.
We were assured this was a myth and part of Project Fear, but if you want to pay £6 for a punnet of strawberries that's your call.
How is a shortage now, before brexit, the fault of brexit?
Directly because the Brexit vote caused a fall in the pound that makes UK wages less attractive internationally
Indirectly because Brexit has made immigrants feel unwelcome. Most immigrants have choices and are choosing not to come to the UK in such large numbers.
We can make a number of remarks about this. a) You might say making immigrants unwelcome is the whole point of Brexit. It's a feature, not a bug. b) You don't need to Brexit to be horrible to foreigners. c) While this might reduce immigration, it isn't control in any real sense. The more marketable immigrants will stay away. Hence the lack of apple pickers.
Apple pickers are the 'more marketable immigrants' ???
Apple pickers ???
Who needs doctors or scientists or engineers when you can have an economy based on apple pickers.
Sigh.
If you grow apples for a business, pickers are kind of important.
Then they need to employ people to pick them and they do that by offering fair pay and conditions
If they're not willing to do that then why should anyone have any sympathy for them ?
The not particularly well written article claimed there was a shortage of pickers last year that they were partially able to mitigate by raising wages. This year they tried the same but people didn't bite.
It's not a question of sympathy. There may be a question of if you want these and other businesses to keep going, keep employing local as well as immigrant staff and keep generating wealth in the UK, you need a supportive environment. Because we're in competition with other countries and people have choices.
It is going to come down to a showdown on the votes later in the week. Second reading will be the biggie and then we’ll see where we get to with the tussle on amendments. But tomorrow? Nah.
Seems like an obvious loss for the goverment - an extension beyond 31 Oct has already been asked for, its only Boris who is committed politically to that date, and for everyone else either they really do want time to scrutinise the legislation, and it's not unreasonable to think that might take at least 2 weeks, and the others want to drag it out and humilate Boris/chip away at the labour rebels and ex-cons through various amendments.
Until Orban says no more extensions. For the shitz n gigglez.
Even assuming he does, that is not likely before the programme motion vote surely?
He could say tomorrow. "No more extensions. There's a hard border for Brexit: 31st October."
We were assured this was a myth and part of Project Fear, but if you want to pay £6 for a punnet of strawberries that's your call.
How is a shortage now, before brexit, the fault of brexit?
Directly because the Brexit vote caused a fall in the pound that makes UK wages less attractive internationally
Indirectly because Brexit has made immigrants feel unwelcome. Most immigrants have choices and are choosing not to come to the UK in such large numbers.
We can make a number of remarks about this. a) You might say making immigrants unwelcome is the whole point of Brexit. It's a feature, not a bug. b) You don't need to Brexit to be horrible to foreigners. c) While this might reduce immigration, it isn't control in any real sense. The more marketable immigrants will stay away. Hence the lack of apple pickers.
Apple pickers are the 'more marketable immigrants' ???
Apple pickers ???
Who needs doctors or scientists or engineers when you can have an economy based on apple pickers.
Sigh.
If you grow apples for a business, pickers are kind of important.
Then they need to employ people to pick them and they do that by offering fair pay and conditions
If they're not willing to do that then why should anyone have any sympathy for them ?
I was a professional apple-picker in Suffolk for three weeks in the 1970s having answered a small ad in The Times. It is regrettable to note that they are no longer recruited in such a civilised way.
We were very well regarded by the local population
We gave most of our land to the tenants - the theory was we didn’t have the cash to save them but at least they could die on their own land.
... it makes sense in an Irish context ..,
And how - exactly - was that land acquired and from whom?
Mostly through purchase or marriage over the years. We were lawyers and merchants not warriors.
You need to explain - not to me - the context. You see no-one was purchasing land in the 11th century.
And later the native Catholics were not allowed to own any land, were forced into being tenants (at best) and dependant on the charity or not of those who lorded it over them. Your family's peaceful purchases were made possible by the fighting of others and the deprivation by others of their country and means of earning a living.
British rule in Ireland and British treatment of the Irish was not in any sense benevolent. However nice your family may have been it benefited from a political and economic structure which prioritised its interests above others in Ireland and which made possible its comfortable lifestyle. What happened during the 1920’s did not come out of nowhere.
We were one of the Tribes of Galway. Merchants who performed well and made money from trade from the 14th century onwards. We’d arrived in the 11th century but were of no particular significance.
We were also Catholics for much of that time.
If you trace your family tree back to the 11th century, I'm sure the "we" of your ancestors would include a far more diverse group of people.
Sure, but my uncle and I are the heirs to the Galway family (second sons)
It is going to come down to a showdown on the votes later in the week. Second reading will be the biggie and then we’ll see where we get to with the tussle on amendments. But tomorrow? Nah.
Seems like an obvious loss for the goverment - an extension beyond 31 Oct has already been asked for, its only Boris who is committed politically to that date, and for everyone else either they really do want time to scrutinise the legislation, and it's not unreasonable to think that might take at least 2 weeks, and the others want to drag it out and humilate Boris/chip away at the labour rebels and ex-cons through various amendments.
Until Orban says no more extensions. For the shitz n gigglez.
Even assuming he does, that is not likely before the programme motion vote surely?
He could say tomorrow. "No more extensions. There's a hard border for Brexit: 31st October."
Then what, Remainer smart-arses?
The reaction would be unutterably priceless. But it won't happen.
Has anyone crunched the numbers on the second referendum amendment?
Referendum only received 280 votes in the last indicative votes. Sure, DUP takes that to 290, but that means it still goes down by almost as much as MV3.
Who can forget the zip, nada, nothing, null reaction when Salmond waved a wee Saltire at Wimbledon?
Just imagine what it would be like now the English have disappeared down the hysteria rabbit hole?
Wearing a pair of earrings that you have to literally pause and zoom your TV into? Seriously? The “hysteria” at Wimbledon was more about the fact that waving flags, any flag, is not the “done thing” on Centre Court and even then it was mostly the Mail.
Here’s a picture of her playing a Saltire f***ing ukulele in 2017. No one gave a shit.
And believe me, we English were rioting in the streets when we saw this...
Who can forget the zip, nada, nothing, null reaction when Salmond waved a wee Saltire at Wimbledon?
Just imagine what it would be like now the English have disappeared down the hysteria rabbit hole?
Wearing a pair of earrings that you have to literally pause and zoom your TV into? Seriously? The “hysteria” at Wimbledon was more about the fact that waving flags, any flag, is not the “done thing” on Centre Court and even then it was mostly the Mail.
Here’s a picture of her playing a Saltire f***ing ukulele in 2017. No one gave a shit.
You seem to be giving a bit of a shit about convincing me that nobody gives a shit.
We were assured this was a myth and part of Project Fear, but if you want to pay £6 for a punnet of strawberries that's your call.
How is a shortage now, before brexit, the fault of brexit?
Directly because the Brexit vote caused a fall in the pound that makes UK wages less attractive internationally
Indirectly because Brexit has made immigrants feel unwelcome. Most immigrants have choices and are choosing not to come to the UK in such large numbers.
We can make a number of remarks about this. a) You might say making immigrants unwelcome is the whole point of Brexit. It's a feature, not a bug. b) You don't need to Brexit to be horrible to foreigners. c) While this might reduce immigration, it isn't control in any real sense. The more marketable immigrants will stay away. Hence the lack of apple pickers.
Apple pickers are the 'more marketable immigrants' ???
Apple pickers ???
Who needs doctors or scientists or engineers when you can have an economy based on apple pickers.
Sigh.
If you grow apples for a business, pickers are kind of important.
Then they need to employ people to pick them and they do that by offering fair pay and conditions
If they're not willing to do that then why should anyone have any sympathy for them ?
The not particularly well written article claimed there was a shortage of pickers last year that they were partially able to mitigate by raising wages. This year they tried the same but people didn't bite.
It's not a question of sympathy. There may be a question of if you want these and other businesses to keep going, keep employing local as well as immigrant staff and keep generating wealth in the UK, you need a supportive environment. Because we're in competition with other countries and people have choices.
Brexit doesn't foster that environment.
Yet the UK continues to have net immigration and the number of immigrants employed continues to increase.
So the potential workforce is there and its being employed by the businesses which offer fair pay and conditions.
And its those businesses which offer fair pay and conditions which we should be encouraging not the ones which don't.
Who can forget the zip, nada, nothing, null reaction when Salmond waved a wee Saltire at Wimbledon?
Just imagine what it would be like now the English have disappeared down the hysteria rabbit hole?
Wearing a pair of earrings that you have to literally pause and zoom your TV into? Seriously? The “hysteria” at Wimbledon was more about the fact that waving flags, any flag, is not the “done thing” on Centre Court and even then it was mostly the Mail.
Here’s a picture of her playing a Saltire f***ing ukulele in 2017. No one gave a shit.
And believe me, we English were rioting in the streets when we saw this...
Who can forget the zip, nada, nothing, null reaction when Salmond waved a wee Saltire at Wimbledon?
Just imagine what it would be like now the English have disappeared down the hysteria rabbit hole?
Wearing a pair of earrings that you have to literally pause and zoom your TV into? Seriously? The “hysteria” at Wimbledon was more about the fact that waving flags, any flag, is not the “done thing” on Centre Court and even then it was mostly the Mail.
Here’s a picture of her playing a Saltire f***ing ukulele in 2017. No one gave a shit.
You seem to be giving a bit of a shit about convincing me that nobody gives a shit.
'Not the done thing' is a nice reveal.
I get wound up by the Anglophobic stereotypes. Yes, not being the “done thing” is a srtereotype, Salmond wasn’t wearing a pair of minuscule earrings.
And if you want that kind of irony, the a one of time Malc spends convincing us that Swinson is an irrelevance is something else.
@Charles i’m curious to hear your thoughts on the importance of knowing your family’s history. It seems that by virtue of wealth and power you are able to trace a significant family line. How much personal identity do you feel you gain from that? Does it influence your everyday life?
For many of us that is impossible. For example all of my grandparents were immigrants fleeing persecution and came to this island to start again.
Who can forget the zip, nada, nothing, null reaction when Salmond waved a wee Saltire at Wimbledon?
Just imagine what it would be like now the English have disappeared down the hysteria rabbit hole?
Wearing a pair of earrings that you have to literally pause and zoom your TV into? Seriously? The “hysteria” at Wimbledon was more about the fact that waving flags, any flag, is not the “done thing” on Centre Court and even then it was mostly the Mail.
Here’s a picture of her playing a Saltire f***ing ukulele in 2017. No one gave a shit.
And believe me, we English were rioting in the streets when we saw this...
Hooray, more not giving a shit!
As you are well aware, I don’t give a shit what she was wearing, one does. I give a shit that you regard we English racially as people who would get wound up by a pair of earrings. Do you understand the difference?
Wouldn’t say that’s a huge problem to be honest. They’re bringing the vote tomorrow, in my view, because they very much expect Bercow to kick it out and they can continue the remainer parliament narrative.
It is going to come down to a showdown on the votes later in the week. Second reading will be the biggie and then we’ll see where we get to with the tussle on amendments. But tomorrow? Nah.
Also - will the Programme motion for the WAIB be approved?
They are going to vote down a motion for the bill to even be debated? Their only goal is to obstruct Brexit at this point.
Yep. We have a RRMAIN parliament, and Brexit is not happening until we cull a bunch of REMAIN MP's.
Who can forget the zip, nada, nothing, null reaction when Salmond waved a wee Saltire at Wimbledon?
Just imagine what it would be like now the English have disappeared down the hysteria rabbit hole?
Wearing a pair of earrings that you have to literally pause and zoom your TV into? Seriously? The “hysteria” at Wimbledon was more about the fact that waving flags, any flag, is not the “done thing” on Centre Court and even then it was mostly the Mail.
Here’s a picture of her playing a Saltire f***ing ukulele in 2017. No one gave a shit.
And believe me, we English were rioting in the streets when we saw this...
Hooray, more not giving a shit!
Callous political leader just wants photo-op - as child screams with hypothermia.....
Who can forget the zip, nada, nothing, null reaction when Salmond waved a wee Saltire at Wimbledon?
Just imagine what it would be like now the English have disappeared down the hysteria rabbit hole?
Wearing a pair of earrings that you have to literally pause and zoom your TV into? Seriously? The “hysteria” at Wimbledon was more about the fact that waving flags, any flag, is not the “done thing” on Centre Court and even then it was mostly the Mail.
Here’s a picture of her playing a Saltire f***ing ukulele in 2017. No one gave a shit.
And believe me, we English were rioting in the streets when we saw this...
Hooray, more not giving a shit!
As you are well aware, I don’t give a shit what she was wearing, one does. I give a shit that you regard we English racially as people who would get wound up by a pair of earrings. Do you understand the difference?
Fantasising about English people who are outraged by the Saltire, or English people who claim successful Scottish sportspeople as British only to disown them as Scottish when they fail, is one of those things that seems necessary to the Scottish nationalist mentality.
We were very well regarded by the local population
We gave most of our land to the tenants - the theory was we didn’t have the cash to save them but at least they could die on their own land.
... it makes sense in an Irish context ..,
And how - exactly - was that land acquired and from whom?
Mostly through purchase or marriage over the years. We were lawyers and merchants not warriors.
You need to explain - not to me - the context. You see no-one was purchasing land in the 11th century.
And later the native Catholics were not allowed to own any land, were forced into being tenants (at best) and dependant on the charity or not of those who lorded it over them. Your family's peaceful purchases were made possible by the fighting of others and the deprivation by others of their country and means of earning a living.
British rule in Ireland and British treatment of the Irish was not in any sense benevolent. However nice your family may have been it benefited from a political and economic structure which prioritised its interests above others in Ireland and which made possible its comfortable lifestyle. What happened during the 1920’s did not come out of nowhere.
We were one of the Tribes of Galway. Merchants who performed well and made money from trade from the 14th century onwards. We’d arrived in the 11th century but were of no particular significance.
We were also Catholics for much of that time.
Most of us have families who were Catholics until the mid-16th century.
We were very well regarded by the local population
We gave most of our land to the tenants - the theory was we didn’t have the cash to save them but at least they could die on their own land.
... it makes sense in an Irish context ..,
And how - exactly - was that land acquired and from whom?
Mostly through purchase or marriage over the years. We were lawyers and merchants not warriors.
You need to explain - not to me - the context. You see no-one was purchasing land in the 11th century.
And later the native Catholics were not allowed to own any land, were forced into being tenants (at best) and dependant on the charity or not of those who lorded it over them. Your family's peaceful purchases were made possible by the fighting of others and the deprivation by others of their country and means of earning a living.
British rule in Ireland and British treatment of the Irish was not in any sense benevolent. However nice your family may have been it benefited from a political and economic structure which prioritised its interests above others in Ireland and which made possible its comfortable lifestyle. What happened during the 1920’s did not come out of nowhere.
We were one of the Tribes of Galway. Merchants who performed well and made money from trade from the 14th century onwards. We’d arrived in the 11th century but were of no particular significance.
We were also Catholics for much of that time.
Most of us have families who were Catholics until the mid-16th century.
We were very well regarded by the local population
We gave most of our land to the tenants - the theory was we didn’t have the cash to save them but at least they could die on their own land.
... it makes sense in an Irish context ..,
And how - exactly - was that land acquired and from whom?
Mostly through purchase or marriage over the years. We were lawyers and merchants not warriors.
You need to explain - not to me - the context. You see no-one was purchasing land in the 11th century.
And later the native Catholics were not allowed to own any land, were forced into being tenants (at best) and dependant on the charity or not of those who lorded it over them. Your family's peaceful purchases were made possible by the fighting of others and the deprivation by others of their country and means of earning a living.
British rule in Ireland and British treatment of the Irish was not in any sense benevolent. However nice your family may have been it benefited from a political and economic structure which prioritised its interests above others in Ireland and which made possible its comfortable lifestyle. What happened during the 1920’s did not come out of nowhere.
We were one of the Tribes of Galway. Merchants who performed well and made money from trade from the 14th century onwards. We’d arrived in the 11th century but were of no particular significance.
We were also Catholics for much of that time.
Most of us have families who were Catholics until the mid-16th century.
Mr Eagles says hello, as does Dr Prasannan.
The Cathar element amongst PBers also wishes to be noted. Or it would if all its ancestors hadn't been slaughtered.
We were very well regarded by the local population
We gave most of our land to the tenants - the theory was we didn’t have the cash to save them but at least they could die on their own land.
... it makes sense in an Irish context ..,
And how - exactly - was that land acquired and from whom?
Mostly through purchase or marriage over the years. We were lawyers and merchants not warriors.
You need to explain - not to me - the context. You see no-one was purchasing land in the 11th century.
And later the native Catholics were not allowed to own any land, were forced into being tenants (at best) and dependant on the charity or not of those who lorded it over them. Your family's peaceful purchases were made possible by the fighting of others and the deprivation by others of their country and means of earning a living.
British rule in Ireland and British treatment of the Irish was not in any sense benevolent. However nice your family may have been it benefited from a political and economic structure which prioritised its interests above others in Ireland and which made possible its comfortable lifestyle. What happened during the 1920’s did not come out of nowhere.
We were one of the Tribes of Galway. Merchants who performed well and made money from trade from the 14th century onwards. We’d arrived in the 11th century but were of no particular significance.
We were also Catholics for much of that time.
Most of us have families who were Catholics until the mid-16th century.
Even the Church of England is a Catholic Church it’s is embedded in the creed they are though not Roman Catholic, it is a loose use of language to use the term catholic as meaninganything but one catholic chirch
@Charles i’m curious to hear your thoughts on the importance of knowing your family’s history. It seems that by virtue of wealth and power you are able to trace a significant family line. How much personal identity do you feel you gain from that? Does it influence your everyday life?
For many of us that is impossible. For example all of my grandparents were immigrants fleeing persecution and came to this island to start again.
My male line is 100% sheep farmers from the lake district must be why I like lamb
Who can forget the zip, nada, nothing, null reaction when Salmond waved a wee Saltire at Wimbledon?
Just imagine what it would be like now the English have disappeared down the hysteria rabbit hole?
Wearing a pair of earrings that you have to literally pause and zoom your TV into? Seriously? The “hysteria” at Wimbledon was more about the fact that waving flags, any flag, is not the “done thing” on Centre Court and even then it was mostly the Mail.
Here’s a picture of her playing a Saltire f***ing ukulele in 2017. No one gave a shit.
And believe me, we English were rioting in the streets when we saw this...
Hooray, more not giving a shit!
As you are well aware, I don’t give a shit what she was wearing, one does. I give a shit that you regard we English racially as people who would get wound up by a pair of earrings. Do you understand the difference?
Fantasising about English people who are outraged by the Saltire, or English people who claim successful Scottish sportspeople as British only to disown them as Scottish when they fail, is one of those things that seems necessary to the Scottish nationalist mentality.
There was plenty of outrage when Alec Salmond waved a Scottish flag to celebrate a Scottish independence supporting Scotsman winning Wimbledon.
Has anyone crunched the numbers on the second referendum amendment?
Referendum only received 280 votes in the last indicative votes. Sure, DUP takes that to 290, but that means it still goes down by almost as much as MV3.
Too many Labour rebels.
Keir Starmer said today there would be a three line whip on Labour to support the referendum. Could the rebel count go down ?
Has anyone crunched the numbers on the second referendum amendment?
Referendum only received 280 votes in the last indicative votes. Sure, DUP takes that to 290, but that means it still goes down by almost as much as MV3.
Too many Labour rebels.
Keir Starmer said today there would be a three line whip on Labour to support the referendum. Could the rebel count go down ?
Wasn't there a three line whip last time? Who in Labour rebelled last time but won't this time?
Sammy Wilson said DUP didn't want a second referendum today.
A Customs Union amendment has a chance of getting a majority, but it would effectively be voting against the deal, which has been sold on more freedom on trade.
The underhand tactics of the government continue . They never learn !
Why are they so afraid of publishing the WAIB before the MV5 , why are they trying to bring the same vote back and why are they desperate to get round the Letwin Amendment before the WAIB is published .
And this is why IMO . The government wants the MV5 with the Letwin Amendment gone pushed through before MPs see the WAIB .
This means they can withdraw the extension and back MPs into a corner , less time to scrutinize the legislation . If they weren’t so duplicitous they could simply publish the WAIB .
What’s hiding in the WAIB they don’t want MPs to see ?
Who can forget the zip, nada, nothing, null reaction when Salmond waved a wee Saltire at Wimbledon?
Just imagine what it would be like now the English have disappeared down the hysteria rabbit hole?
Wearing a pair of earrings that you have to literally pause and zoom your TV into? Seriously? The “hysteria” at Wimbledon was more about the fact that waving flags, any flag, is not the “done thing” on Centre Court and even then it was mostly the Mail.
Here’s a picture of her playing a Saltire f***ing ukulele in 2017. No one gave a shit.
And believe me, we English were rioting in the streets when we saw this...
Hooray, more not giving a shit!
As you are well aware, I don’t give a shit what she was wearing, one does. I give a shit that you regard we English racially as people who would get wound up by a pair of earrings. Do you understand the difference?
Fantasising about English people who are outraged by the Saltire, or English people who claim successful Scottish sportspeople as British only to disown them as Scottish when they fail, is one of those things that seems necessary to the Scottish nationalist mentality.
There was plenty of outrage when Alec Salmond waved a Scottish flag to celebrate a Scottish independence supporting Scotsman winning Wimbledon.
But not with the fact that he was wearing saltire accessories. Which he was.
Sammy Wilson said DUP didn't want a second referendum today.
A Customs Union amendment has a chance of getting a majority, but it would effectively be voting against the deal, which has been sold on more freedom on trade.
He said they’re not seeking a second E.U. referendum.
Big difference . They haven’t categorically ruled it out .The Union is far more important to them than Brexit .
Has anyone crunched the numbers on the second referendum amendment?
Referendum only received 280 votes in the last indicative votes. Sure, DUP takes that to 290, but that means it still goes down by almost as much as MV3.
Too many Labour rebels.
Keir Starmer said today there would be a three line whip on Labour to support the referendum. Could the rebel count go down ?
Could not would.
Has Corbyn commented as labour may lose 40 votes against a referendum from his side
We were assured this was a myth and part of Project Fear, but if you want to pay £6 for a punnet of strawberries that's your call.
How is a shortage now, before brexit, the fault of brexit?
Directly because the Brexit vote caused a fall in the pound that makes UK wages less attractive internationally
Indirectly because Brexit has made immigrants feel unwelcome. Most immigrants have choices and are choosing not to come to the UK in such large numbers.
We can make a number of remarks about this. a) You might say making immigrants unwelcome is the whole point of Brexit. It's a feature, not a bug. b) You don't need to Brexit to be horrible to foreigners. c) While this might reduce immigration, it isn't control in any real sense. The more marketable immigrants will stay away. Hence the lack of apple pickers.
Apple pickers are the 'more marketable immigrants' ???
Apple pickers ???
Who needs doctors or scientists or engineers when you can have an economy based on apple pickers.
It’s the incider track to success.
Pause.
Ah, my coat...
You've got to the core of the matter there!
You pipped me to it.
A lot of pippin' goin' on.....
And it all stemmed from a chance remark.
With the quality of these puns we should put on a Royal Gala performance.
Has anyone crunched the numbers on the second referendum amendment?
Referendum only received 280 votes in the last indicative votes. Sure, DUP takes that to 290, but that means it still goes down by almost as much as MV3.
Too many Labour rebels.
Keir Starmer said today there would be a three line whip on Labour to support the referendum. Could the rebel count go down ?
I think it's easier for Labour Leavers to vote against a referendum then it is for them to vote for Johnson's deal and there seem to be a fair few who will do that. I think it goes down comfortably.
Sammy Wilson said DUP didn't want a second referendum today.
A Customs Union amendment has a chance of getting a majority, but it would effectively be voting against the deal, which has been sold on more freedom on trade.
Enough of all this. Time for a November GE I think.
I don't understand the logic here. The amendment can't change the agreement with the EU, and there's surely going to be an election soon and the future Parliament of whatever flavour will not be bound by this.
We were assured this was a myth and part of Project Fear, but if you want to pay £6 for a punnet of strawberries that's your call.
How is a shortage now, before brexit, the fault of brexit?
Directly because the Brexit vote caused a fall in the pound that makes UK wages less attractive internationally
Indirectly because Brexit has made immigrants feel unwelcome. Most immigrants have choices and are choosing not to come to the UK in such large numbers.
We can make a number of remarks about this. a) You might say making immigrants unwelcome is the whole point of Brexit. It's a feature, not a bug. b) You don't need to Brexit to be horrible to foreigners. c) While this might reduce immigration, it isn't control in any real sense. The more marketable immigrants will stay away. Hence the lack of apple pickers.
Apple pickers are the 'more marketable immigrants' ???
Apple pickers ???
Who needs doctors or scientists or engineers when you can have an economy based on apple pickers.
It’s the incider track to success.
Pause.
Ah, my coat...
You've got to the core of the matter there!
You pipped me to it.
A lot of pippin' goin' on.....
And it all stemmed from a chance remark.
With the quality of these puns we should put on a Royal Gala performance.
I don't understand the logic here. The amendment can't change the agreement with the EU, and there's surely going to be an election soon and the future Parliament of whatever flavour will not be bound by this.
So the Deal's already finished, thanks to Letwin. It doesn't matter a damn that he's now "supporting" it, now that he's crippled any chance of it getting through. I wonder how Labour would react if their flagship policy got torpedoed by a "well-meaning" backbench amendment?
re: I see Stewart and Kazyncsi are treating Brexit like their own personal parlour game - contemptible.
If it's any consolation, Kawczynski will be jailed for treason under a new law proposed by his ERG colleagues. He is conspiring with foreign governments (In FOREIGN LANGUAGES. !!!!) about Brexit
I'm not sure a CU has the votes as most of the Tories that backed it before will now be whipped against, LDs shouldn't back it unless it's just as a spoiler, same with SNP, and the deal alliance will be strongly encouraged to avoid it
By the way, Boris should promise the DUP a bridge in the next Tory manifesto.
Or the UUP.....
The UUP have said they’d rather revoke Article 50 than have this deal . This gives space for the DUP to soften their stance .
The DUP can’t really afford a no deal , far too damaging to NI and they’d suffer at the polls. The DUP can say if we’re not going to get a Brexit where the whole UK leaves as one then they’d rather not have it.
The Tories probably have the votes to get the deal through but on amendments many of the Labour MPs who will support the deal would also like to support a Customs Union, that also gives them cover for voting for the deal .
So the Deal's already finished, thanks to Letwin. It doesn't matter a damn that he's now "supporting" it, now that he's crippled any chance of it getting through. I wonder how Labour would react if their flagship policy got torpedoed by a "well-meaning" backbench amendment?
I dare say it would happen quite often if Corbyn was in Number 10 - there are lots of PLP members who would revolt on things he'd like. He's notably tolerant of dissent and that inhibited the Momentum people who yearned for mass deselections.
Yeah, having another stab at the motion is pointless. They should just start the process of getting the bill passed, and have a vote on the motion after that is concluded (if it's even necessary).
It's necessary, because it's required by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. Also, "so far as is practicable" that should be arranged before the European Parliament decides whether to ratify. But if it's not possible, it's obviously not practicable.
I don't understand the logic here. The amendment can't change the agreement with the EU, and there's surely going to be an election soon and the future Parliament of whatever flavour will not be bound by this.
Wrecks the deal though
The deal will still be there to be approved after an election. Remember how many goes Theresa May had!
We were assured this was a myth and part of Project Fear, but if you want to pay £6 for a punnet of strawberries that's your call.
How is a shortage now, before brexit, the fault of brexit?
Directly because the Brexit vote caused a fall in the pound that makes UK wages less attractive internationally
Indirectly because Brexit has made immigrants feel unwelcome. Most immigrants have choices and are choosing not to come to the UK in such large numbers.
We can make a number of remarks about this. a) You might say making immigrants unwelcome is the whole point of Brexit. It's a feature, not a bug. b) You don't need to Brexit to be horrible to foreigners. c) While this might reduce immigration, it isn't control in any real sense. The more marketable immigrants will stay away. Hence the lack of apple pickers.
Apple pickers are the 'more marketable immigrants' ???
Apple pickers ???
Who needs doctors or scientists or engineers when you can have an economy based on apple pickers.
It’s the incider track to success.
Pause.
Ah, my coat...
You've got to the core of the matter there!
You pipped me to it.
A lot of pippin' goin' on.....
And it all stemmed from a chance remark.
With the quality of these puns we should put on a Royal Gala performance.
We were assured this was a myth and part of Project Fear, but if you want to pay £6 for a punnet of strawberries that's your call.
How is a shortage now, before brexit, the fault of brexit?
Directly because the Brexit vote caused a fall in the pound that makes UK wages less attractive internationally
Indirectly because Brexit has made immigrants feel unwelcome. Most immigrants have choices and are choosing not to come to the UK in such large numbers.
We can make a number of remarks about this. a) You might say making immigrants unwelcome is the whole point of Brexit. It's a feature, not a bug. b) You don't need to Brexit to be horrible to foreigners. c) While this might reduce immigration, it isn't control in any real sense. The more marketable immigrants will stay away. Hence the lack of apple pickers.
Apple pickers are the 'more marketable immigrants' ???
Apple pickers ???
Who needs doctors or scientists or engineers when you can have an economy based on apple pickers.
It’s the incider track to success.
Pause.
Ah, my coat...
You've got to the core of the matter there!
You pipped me to it.
A lot of pippin' goin' on.....
And it all stemmed from a chance remark.
With the quality of these puns we should put on a Royal Gala performance.
By the way, Boris should promise the DUP a bridge in the next Tory manifesto.
"Boris" "promise"
You see the problem with your suggestion?
All political promises are lies.. Remember Blair promising the LDems's PR... To think a political promise is a promise is as a de minimus naive in the extreme.
The parliamentary swamp needs draining and quickly.
The vengeance wrought on MPs at the next GE is going to be biblical.
No, it's really not. Most current MPs will be re-elected.
Most is 325 plus but I would expect many to lose their seats
So would I. And quite a few have already said they are not standing again.
But anyone expecting this current set of MPs to be sent packing en masse is in for a disappointment.
Oh, I'd like at least some of them to be re-elected, just so they can be left to sit impotently in the chamber and watch what a Conservative majority government manages to ram through without a thought for their pettifogging obstructionism
We were assured this was a myth and part of Project Fear, but if you want to pay £6 for a punnet of strawberries that's your call.
How is a shortage now, before brexit, the fault of brexit?
Directly because the Brexit vote caused a fall in the pound that makes UK wages less attractive internationally
Indirectly because Brexit has made immigrants feel unwelcome. Most immigrants have choices and are choosing not to come to the UK in such large numbers.
We can make a number of remarks about this. a) You might say making immigrants unwelcome is the whole point of Brexit. It's a feature, not a bug. b) You don't need to Brexit to be horrible to foreigners. c) While this might reduce immigration, it isn't control in any real sense. The more marketable immigrants will stay away. Hence the lack of apple pickers.
Apple pickers are the 'more marketable immigrants' ???
Apple pickers ???
Who needs doctors or scientists or engineers when you can have an economy based on apple pickers.
Sigh.
If you grow apples for a business, pickers are kind of important.
Then they need to employ people to pick them and they do that by offering fair pay and conditions
If they're not willing to do that then why should anyone have any sympathy for them ?
The not particularly well written article claimed there was a shortage of pickers last year that they were partially able to mitigate by raising wages. This year they tried the same but people didn't bite.
It's not a question of sympathy. There may be a question of if you want these and other businesses to keep going, keep employing local as well as immigrant staff and keep generating wealth in the UK, you need a supportive environment. Because we're in competition with other countries and people have choices.
Brexit doesn't foster that environment.
Yet the UK continues to have net immigration and the number of immigrants employed continues to increase.
So the potential workforce is there and its being employed by the businesses which offer fair pay and conditions.
And its those businesses which offer fair pay and conditions which we should be encouraging not the ones which don't.
That will involve consumers accepting higher prices. I doubt they (we) will.
LOL, political journalists in this country are terminally bad.
We still have them saying things like Boris might "choose an election", when we've seen over and over again that he doesn't have the power to unilaterally "choose" anything with the current parliamentary arithmetic:
By the way, Boris should promise the DUP a bridge in the next Tory manifesto.
"Boris" "promise"
You see the problem with your suggestion?
It is reported that Boris made the DUP a promise last Tuesday. He then went back on it the following day.
Oddly enough, the DUP do not trust him anymore and, judging by the Letwin Bill, most of Parliament does not trust him either.
This is the insane point we have reached. We have a PM who nobody trusts and who has failed to get any legislation through Parliament in two months. Any other PM would have resigned in shame and embarrassment or been forced out by the Party.
Instead, they tolerate this buffoon and his circus troop of monkeys and that might be insulting to monkeys in general because they at least serve a purpose.
Comments
If they're not willing to do that then why should anyone have any sympathy for them ?
We were also Catholics for much of that time.
If that is what you are referring to, I think it means the progress of the WAIB will not be restricted to this week - but extend to the following week.
Here’s a picture of her playing a Saltire f***ing ukulele in 2017. No one gave a shit.
I suppose it will have to come to an end at some point but I also thought that a decade ago.
It's not a question of sympathy. There may be a question of if you want these and other businesses to keep going, keep employing local as well as immigrant staff and keep generating wealth in the UK, you need a supportive environment. Because we're in competition with other countries and people have choices.
Brexit doesn't foster that environment.
Then what, Remainer smart-arses?
Too many Labour rebels.
'Not the done thing' is a nice reveal.
So the potential workforce is there and its being employed by the businesses which offer fair pay and conditions.
And its those businesses which offer fair pay and conditions which we should be encouraging not the ones which don't.
He’s only going to act in one person’s interest: his own.
And if you want that kind of irony, the a one of time Malc spends convincing us that Swinson is an irrelevance is something else.
For many of us that is impossible. For example all of my grandparents were immigrants fleeing persecution and came to this island to start again.
This much is clear.
If they lose that Labour will surely have to put down a VONC?
What was that proposed new law again?
My male line is 100% sheep farmers from the lake district must be why I like lamb
I heard Starmer say that this morning and when asked he said they would back it if was brought forward by a backbencher
Different from headlines
A Customs Union amendment has a chance of getting a majority, but it would effectively be voting against the deal, which has been sold on more freedom on trade.
Why are they so afraid of publishing the WAIB before the MV5 , why are they trying to bring the same vote back and why are they desperate to get round the Letwin Amendment before the WAIB is published .
And this is why IMO . The government wants the MV5 with the Letwin Amendment gone pushed through before MPs see the WAIB .
This means they can withdraw the extension and back MPs into a corner , less time to scrutinize the legislation . If they weren’t so duplicitous they could simply publish the WAIB .
What’s hiding in the WAIB they don’t want MPs to see ?
Big difference . They haven’t categorically ruled it out .The Union is far more important to them than Brexit .
Has Corbyn commented as labour may lose 40 votes against a referendum from his side
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1049815039526535168?s=19
The orginisation involved is making money from doing this as well.
https://twitter.com/DKShrewsbury/status/1185990368795463680
The vengeance wrought on MPs at the next GE is going to be biblical.
The DUP can’t really afford a no deal , far too damaging to NI and they’d suffer at the polls. The DUP can say if we’re not going to get a Brexit where the whole UK leaves as one then they’d rather not have it.
The Tories probably have the votes to get the deal through but on amendments many of the Labour MPs who will support the deal would also like to support a Customs Union, that also gives them cover for voting for the deal .
But anyone expecting this current set of MPs to be sent packing en masse is in for a disappointment.
You see the problem with your suggestion?
That particular one works probably better on people who don't know anything about the geography...
To think a political promise is a promise is as a de minimus naive in the extreme.
We still have them saying things like Boris might "choose an election", when we've seen over and over again that he doesn't have the power to unilaterally "choose" anything with the current parliamentary arithmetic:
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1186012123761119234
Oddly enough, the DUP do not trust him anymore and, judging by the Letwin Bill, most of Parliament does not trust him either.
This is the insane point we have reached. We have a PM who nobody trusts and who has failed to get any legislation through Parliament in two months. Any other PM would have resigned in shame and embarrassment or been forced out by the Party.
Instead, they tolerate this buffoon and his circus troop of monkeys and that might be insulting to monkeys in general because they at least serve a purpose.