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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,267
    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    148grss said:

    Any election, deal, indyref or people's vote will be won on the very margins of established voting patterns. I think that whilst lots of politicians should worry about being "too clever by half" that FPTP is a fickle thing, and that even a 30-35% showing for the Conservatives is no guarantee of a majority in the House. Every little counts at the moment, and it is the Conservatives and Johnson committing unforced errors, not the LOTO and not the other opposition parties.

    Wrong, wait for the weekend polls, Corbyn blocking Brexit will go down like a lead balloon with Labour Leave voters to the benefit of the Brexit Party and Tories
    Well in the weird world of the offshore controlled far right press, who have pathetically been trying to spin the evisceration of this government as either a triumph for Johnson or simply a temporary setback due to the "cowardice of Corbyn" then this would indeed be a no brainer.

    However, back in the real world, Johnson is a loser. The idea that Pontefract is going to vote for the posh boys sprawling over the Commons benches is laughably delusional. The hate that Johnson, Cummings and Rees Mogg inspire is now way beyond Corbyn's local difficulties.

    The heart of the Conservative party has just been broken: you just lost every vote and even ended up expelling Churchill's grandson FFS!

    The country is sick of this fiasco and the increasingly bitter irony of the fact that the whole thing was simply a ruse to try and unite the Conservatives is turning the sky black with chickens home to roost.

    Johnson may think he can gain a victory even with 35% of the vote. but the truth is that even rather weak ambition is unlikely to be achieved. The anti-Tory tactical voting will be significant and the loses will cripple the party for a long time, maybe forever.
    Voters opposed further extension by 47% to 41% at the weekend, Corbyn defying the will of the people will lose further working class Voters to the Brexit Party and the Tories.

    The loss of Labour Leave seats will cripple Labour for a long time, maybe forever
  • Holy cow...where is this on the Ed vs David scale?

    Worse probably
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Even Bozos own brother can’t stomach the right wing coup .
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:



    Which if those Labour Leave voters all vote Brexit Party and Tory would be enough for the Tories to take those Labour Leave marginal seats

    Why do you think that Brexit is the single most important issue for all of these Labour leave voters, making them turn their backs on a party they have traditionally followed? There are other issues than Brexit in the world even if sometimes it doesn't feel like it. Have the Conservative Party been forgiven for everything else that they have been perceived to have done in the North? I don't get this Leave = Tory/Brexit Vote. Plenty of Labour voters disagreed with the Iraq War but didn't flood to the LD's.

  • Bruno Waterfield is an extraordinarily well connected journalist as regards the eu institutions. I would think he will get this right.

    He has a history of quoting some unnamed senior EU official saying all kinds of weird shit.
    They talk to him because they trust him. He is also very smart rather than just someone who looks for headlines so they enjoy talking to him.
    He has a history of generating dodgy headlines.

    image
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    nico67 said:



    This forces Bozo to break his Brexit promise .

    Not sure why everyone assumes that "forcing Boris to break his promise" will cause problems for him?

    He can just say he's had to do this because Parliament is being totally unreasonable and people need to give him a majority to end all the game playing.

    If anything it will play into his Parliament Vs The People narrative.
  • Amazing absolutely amazing
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060
    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1169547762641358848

    Nope, more than 50% of the population are stupider than the average person.

    Wrong. 50% of the population are stupider than the *median* person.
    Think he was right first time and 50% was low call
    " 50% of the population are stupider than the *median* person." is definitely right.

    "more than 50% of the population are stupider than the mean person" is (probably) also right.

    Average can be used to mean "mean" or "median".

    I like the old chestnut "Most welshmen have more than the average number of legs".
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,551
    edited September 2019
    Jo Johnson quits as minister AND as Tory MP!

    EDIT Sorry I'm 8 minutes behind in this fast moving drama.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    GIN1138 said:

    Not sure why everyone assumes that "forcing Boris to break his promise" will cause problems for him?

    You can't trust BoZo with Brexit.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    I see that the PB Tories have carefully pivoted from: the filibuster is going to succeed and mwah ha ha Dom is a genius

    To

    The filibuster would have succeeded if we’d let it.

    Absolutely hilarious TBH.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,890
    GIN1138 said:

    nico67 said:



    This forces Bozo to break his Brexit promise .

    Not sure why everyone assumes that "forcing Boris to break his promise" will cause problems for him?

    He can just say he's had to do this because Parliament is being totally unreasonable and people need to give him a majority to end all the game playing.

    If anything it will play into his Parliament Vs The People narrative.
    Richard Tice makes Johnson look extremely pleasent too in comparison !
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    Scott_P said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Not sure why everyone assumes that "forcing Boris to break his promise" will cause problems for him?

    You can't trust BoZo with Brexit.
    You can't trust Parliament to implement Brexit.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Hmm, wasn't "not even his own brother trusts him" quite a powerful line used against EdM...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Johnson cant even convince his own brother

    Standing down in the National Interest


    Good grief. That is absolutely extraordinary.

    Boris: too toxic even for his brother.

    Fuck me.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    Events rapidly spiralling out of control for BoJo?
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    edited September 2019
    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ouch - Family parties are going to be fun in the future.
    Taking a ministerial post under BroJo seemed a fairly weird choice (as did his being offered one in the first place), given he couldn't serve under TM as she was too leavey.

    Not a biggie in the grand scheme, but HUGELY sub-optimal optics for BJ.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Another LibDem gain on the way.
  • Scott_P said:
    But....but....but! Boris’ Big Speech....which we’ve heard two (or is it three?) times already!

    Oh dear! What a shame.....
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    I haven't watched 'The Pledge' for a while, what does Rachel make of her brother's performance thus far?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    eristdoof said:

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1169547762641358848

    Nope, more than 50% of the population are stupider than the average person.

    Wrong. 50% of the population are stupider than the *median* person.
    Think he was right first time and 50% was low call
    " 50% of the population are stupider than the *median* person." is definitely right.

    "more than 50% of the population are stupider than the mean person" is (probably) also right.

    Average can be used to mean "mean" or "median".

    I like the old chestnut "Most welshmen have more than the average number of legs".
    Not prepared to sign the no deal pledge and resigned so not to cause more embarrassment for his brother Al
  • Going well for the PM.

    A 100% losing record in Commons votes.

    Didn't have a majority and tossed 21 MPs overboard to show how 'tough' he is.

    Now lost his own brother as an MP.

    Vaguely reminds me of Didius Julianus.
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    GIN1138 said:

    nico67 said:



    This forces Bozo to break his Brexit promise .

    Not sure why everyone assumes that "forcing Boris to break his promise" will cause problems for him?

    He can just say he's had to do this because Parliament is being totally unreasonable and people need to give him a majority to end all the game playing.

    If anything it will play into his Parliament Vs The People narrative.
    He gave a personal pledge that he would do it.

    Ask Nick Clegg about personal pledges and the electorate.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    eek said:

    A Gnu with Ken Clarke as PM and Harriet as DPM is the right choice.

    A GNU with Philip Hammond as PM and Harriet as deputy would annoy even more.
    Better still!
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Perhaps the brothers Miliband can advise the Johnson brothers about where to sit at a family reunion?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,890
    Danny565 said:

    Hmm, wasn't "not even his own brother trusts him" quite a powerful line used against EdM...

    Yes, completely unfairly I think.
    IanB2 said:

    Another LibDem gain on the way.
    Orpington ?

    Safe as houses.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    GIN1138 said:

    DanSmith said:

    https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1169550043935850498

    The SNP hold the key to this don't they.

    Nicola playing a very crafty game keeping everyone waiting to see which way she'll jump. :D

    Personally I think she'll go for 15th October once the bill is passed tomorrows as she can say she's made sure NO DEAL doesn't happen on 31st October AND she's dragging cowardly Corbyn kicking and screaming to the polls so Scots now have the opportunity to kick Lab and Con out of Scotland once and for all.

    She's a smart operator.
    Only Jezza has the GE key and Johnson the Jester and wee Jimmy Krankie can scream as loud as they want. November you cant trust Johnson GE it is.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    Events rapidly spiralling out of control for BoJo?

    I knew this week was going to be full of fun, drama and entertainment but never expected it to be this much fun, drama and entertainment.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    Roger said:

    Read a very interesting suggestion earlier today about how Boris can escape the box his opponents think they have him trapped in.

    He should invoke the 2004 Civil Contingencies Act. He can do it unilaterally as a Minister of the Crown. He can then suspend the FTPA and call an election. He then cancels the CCA.

    The CCA is one of the worst pieces of legislation ever created but since Blair was stupid enough to create it Boris should make use of it.

    Won't that make him more despised than he already is?
    The only ones who would be upset are the opposition MPs who are looking to trap him in office for their own political ends.
    One of the unintentionally funniest lines on PB, ever.
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    I know it’s thinking a long way ahead but all these defections to the LibDems must be changing the character of the party. Thinking of the membership too. At some point, one hopes, Brexit won’t be the only issue, and you have to wonder where they’ll now go on other stuff.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    Tabman said:

    GIN1138 said:

    nico67 said:



    This forces Bozo to break his Brexit promise .

    Not sure why everyone assumes that "forcing Boris to break his promise" will cause problems for him?

    He can just say he's had to do this because Parliament is being totally unreasonable and people need to give him a majority to end all the game playing.

    If anything it will play into his Parliament Vs The People narrative.
    He gave a personal pledge that he would do it.

    Ask Nick Clegg about personal pledges and the electorate.
    The irony of the Nick Clegg one was that it was wished upon him by the leftish part of the Lib Dems - the Social and Liberal Democrat ginger group iirc.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Hmm, wasn't "not even his own brother trusts him" quite a powerful line used against EdM...

    Yes, completely unfairly I think.
    IanB2 said:

    Another LibDem gain on the way.
    Orpington ?

    Safe as houses.
    It was probably unfair between Ed and David, it seems highly appropriate here.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Hmm, wasn't "not even his own brother trusts him" quite a powerful line used against EdM...

    Yes, completely unfairly I think.
    IanB2 said:

    Another LibDem gain on the way.
    Orpington ?

    Safe as houses.
    Depends if the queue from Dover reaches there :):):)
  • This is absolute gold. Johnson premiership is shaping up to be one of the most entertaining things in years.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    edited September 2019
    eristdoof said:

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1169547762641358848

    Nope, more than 50% of the population are stupider than the average person.

    Wrong. 50% of the population are stupider than the *median* person.
    Think he was right first time and 50% was low call
    " 50% of the population are stupider than the *median* person." is definitely right.

    "more than 50% of the population are stupider than the mean person" is (probably) also right.

    Average can be used to mean "mean" or "median".

    I like the old chestnut "Most welshmen have more than the average number of legs".
    I understand that but was jokingly saying that he was right that more than 50% of the population are stupid and that his number should have been higher.
    PS: the Welsh joke is amusing, if a bit harsh on Werlshmen
  • ab195 said:

    I know it’s thinking a long way ahead but all these defections to the LibDems must be changing the character of the party. Thinking of the membership too. At some point, one hopes, Brexit won’t be the only issue, and you have to wonder where they’ll now go on other stuff.

    Plenty of room in the centre at the moment.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Hmm, wasn't "not even his own brother trusts him" quite a powerful line used against EdM...

    Yes, completely unfairly I think.
    IanB2 said:

    Another LibDem gain on the way.
    Orpington ?

    Safe as houses.
    Hopefully Ladbrokes will think the same as you.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 928
    What are the odds on BJ being dumped by the party on 1st November 2019?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060
    HYUFD said:


    His people? While most Labour voters voted Remain most Labour seats voted Leave so under FPTP the more Corbyn shifts to block Brexit the better the Tories chances due to the many marginal Labour Leave seats

    If a constituency voted 52% Leave and Labour won the seat with 48% in GE 2015/17. You could resonably conclude that most of Labour voters there voted remain.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Leave has defeated Remain in the Johnson household it would appear!
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Labour MPs queuing up to confirm they will not support a pre- 31 Oct election.

    What will Boris "Under no circumstances will I ask for an extension" do?

    Surely, he has to resign as PM? Then what?

    He'll just ignore the law and no deal anyway. He won't give a fuck.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    Going well for the PM.

    A 100% losing record in Commons votes.

    Didn't have a majority and tossed 21 MPs overboard to show how 'tough' he is.

    Now lost his own brother as an MP.

    Vaguely reminds me of Didius Julianus.

    Had to look Didius up on Wiki (my knowledge of Roman Emperors is mainly courtesy of I, Claudius) but yes, looks similar.

    (Fortunately we live in less bloody times, though - resignation and ignomy will be enough for BoJo.)
  • glwglw Posts: 9,871
    eek said:

    Events rapidly spiralling out of control for BoJo?

    I knew this week was going to be full of fun, drama and entertainment but never expected it to be this much fun, drama and entertainment.
    They said Boris that would cheer up the nation.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    Tabman said:

    GIN1138 said:

    nico67 said:



    This forces Bozo to break his Brexit promise .

    Not sure why everyone assumes that "forcing Boris to break his promise" will cause problems for him?

    He can just say he's had to do this because Parliament is being totally unreasonable and people need to give him a majority to end all the game playing.

    If anything it will play into his Parliament Vs The People narrative.
    He gave a personal pledge that he would do it.

    Ask Nick Clegg about personal pledges and the electorate.
    Totally different situation.

    Clegg signed away his tuition fees pledge to get power. He sold the students down the river so he could form the coalition.

    In this situation Boris has done everything possible to try to deliver Brexit on 31st October even to the point of throwing out Tory grandees and splitting his own family but Parliament has just totally been unreasonable.

    I suspect most Leave voters will be sympathetic.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,890
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Hmm, wasn't "not even his own brother trusts him" quite a powerful line used against EdM...

    Yes, completely unfairly I think.
    IanB2 said:

    Another LibDem gain on the way.
    Orpington ?

    Safe as houses.
    Hopefully Ladbrokes will think the same as you.
    You're be better off backing Swinson as PM or Lib Dem most seats.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    Dura_Ace said:

    Labour MPs queuing up to confirm they will not support a pre- 31 Oct election.

    What will Boris "Under no circumstances will I ask for an extension" do?

    Surely, he has to resign as PM? Then what?

    He'll just ignore the law and no deal anyway. He won't give a fuck.
    The treason show trial will be fun...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    Dura_Ace said:

    Labour MPs queuing up to confirm they will not support a pre- 31 Oct election.

    What will Boris "Under no circumstances will I ask for an extension" do?

    Surely, he has to resign as PM? Then what?

    He'll just ignore the law and no deal anyway. He won't give a fuck.
    "Lock him up!"
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited September 2019
    Do you think Boris Johnson cares more about
    His Own Interest: 42
    The National Interest: 21
    The Conservative Party’s interest: 5
    All of them equally: 16

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/jb2o1kckli/PVResults_190904_Snap_Final.pdf

    Regional breakdowns do not bode well for “Boris will sweep the North”...
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060
    theakes said:

    What are the odds on BJ being dumped by the party on 1st November 2019?

    Lower than BJ being dumped on the day after the election.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    If his own brother thinks he’s not acting in the national interest why should the public .
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    edited September 2019
    Dura_Ace said:

    Labour MPs queuing up to confirm they will not support a pre- 31 Oct election.

    What will Boris "Under no circumstances will I ask for an extension" do?

    Surely, he has to resign as PM? Then what?

    He'll just ignore the law and no deal anyway. He won't give a fuck.
    Jail beckons will his brother visit
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,055

    A Gnu with Ken Clarke as PM and Harriet as DPM is the right choice.

    Make that a GND - there is no national unity.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    This is absolute gold. Johnson premiership is shaping up to be one of the most entertaining things in years.

    As an author you couldn't write it as no one would believe it
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    ab195 said:

    I know it’s thinking a long way ahead but all these defections to the LibDems must be changing the character of the party. Thinking of the membership too. At some point, one hopes, Brexit won’t be the only issue, and you have to wonder where they’ll now go on other stuff.

    Great news. The only future for the party is as a broad centre-left to centre-right coalition.

    It's pissing off the few remaining sandalistas. Hopefully they'll resign in a hissy fit.
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    MattW said:

    Tabman said:

    GIN1138 said:

    nico67 said:



    This forces Bozo to break his Brexit promise .

    Not sure why everyone assumes that "forcing Boris to break his promise" will cause problems for him?

    He can just say he's had to do this because Parliament is being totally unreasonable and people need to give him a majority to end all the game playing.

    If anything it will play into his Parliament Vs The People narrative.
    He gave a personal pledge that he would do it.

    Ask Nick Clegg about personal pledges and the electorate.
    The irony of the Nick Clegg one was that it was wished upon him by the leftish part of the Lib Dems - the Social and Liberal Democrat ginger group iirc.
    As I've argued with Sandalistas many, many times. It's the SLF (Socialist Liberation Front) by the way :-)
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Hmm, wasn't "not even his own brother trusts him" quite a powerful line used against EdM...

    Yes, completely unfairly I think.
    IanB2 said:

    Another LibDem gain on the way.
    Orpington ?

    Safe as houses.
    Hopefully Ladbrokes will think the same as you.
    If Orpington goes LD then Swinson will be PM. I.e. it aint gonna happen.
  • Anyone looking at that and thinking another referendum will solve anything is utterly mad. Particularly because if that is the result the vast majority of people on the Leave side will feel they have had a legitimate victory stolen from them. Almost 50% of your population thinking democracy has failed and that the MPs are responsible for it is a recipe for complete disaster.
  • This is all very Trump-ish.

    It's chaotic, it's stupid, it's incompetent, it's ridiculous, it's hopeless, it's all collapsing.

    And yet all the core messages to the target voters he needs are intact.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    glw said:

    eek said:

    Events rapidly spiralling out of control for BoJo?

    I knew this week was going to be full of fun, drama and entertainment but never expected it to be this much fun, drama and entertainment.
    They said Boris that would cheer up the nation.
    Boris is the Frank Spencer of 21st century Politics.
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    AnneJGP said:

    A Gnu with Ken Clarke as PM and Harriet as DPM is the right choice.

    Make that a GND - there is no national unity.
    Go. Na. D.
  • eek said:

    This is absolute gold. Johnson premiership is shaping up to be one of the most entertaining things in years.

    As an author you couldn't write it as no one would believe it
    It's like the season finale of the Netflix series 'United Kingdom?' the year that everyone thinks it 'jumped the shark'.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    edited September 2019
    Tabman said:

    ab195 said:

    I know it’s thinking a long way ahead but all these defections to the LibDems must be changing the character of the party. Thinking of the membership too. At some point, one hopes, Brexit won’t be the only issue, and you have to wonder where they’ll now go on other stuff.

    Great news. The only future for the party is as a broad centre-left to centre-right coalition.

    It's pissing off the few remaining sandalistas. Hopefully they'll resign in a hissy fit.
    While I tend to agree with you, it also ought to seek to retain those you refer to as 'sandalistas'.
    There are important issues (climate change and environment for example) which ought to unite all of the above.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,890
    edited September 2019

    This is all very Trump-ish.

    It's chaotic, it's stupid, it's incompetent, it's ridiculous, it's hopeless, it's all collapsing.

    And yet all the core messages to the target voters he needs are intact.

    Can Johnson campaign as well as Trump though ?

    Corbyn is also a far better campaigner than Hilary (Though would be a far far worse leader).
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060
    AnneJGP said:

    A Gnu with Ken Clarke as PM and Harriet as DPM is the right choice.

    Make that a GND - there is no national unity.
    That would be a GoNaD
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    Tabman said:

    MattW said:

    Tabman said:

    GIN1138 said:

    nico67 said:



    This forces Bozo to break his Brexit promise .

    Not sure why everyone assumes that "forcing Boris to break his promise" will cause problems for him?

    He can just say he's had to do this because Parliament is being totally unreasonable and people need to give him a majority to end all the game playing.

    If anything it will play into his Parliament Vs The People narrative.
    He gave a personal pledge that he would do it.

    Ask Nick Clegg about personal pledges and the electorate.
    The irony of the Nick Clegg one was that it was wished upon him by the leftish part of the Lib Dems - the Social and Liberal Democrat ginger group iirc.
    As I've argued with Sandalistas many, many times. It's the SLF (Socialist Liberation Front) by the way :-)
    Forum, I believe ;-D .
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    Anyone looking at that and thinking another referendum will solve anything is utterly mad. Particularly because if that is the result the vast majority of people on the Leave side will feel they have had a legitimate victory stolen from them. Almost 50% of your population thinking democracy has failed and that the MPs are responsible for it is a recipe for complete disaster.
    How do you jump from 48% wish to leave the EU to 50% think democracy has failed.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Pulpstar said:

    This is all very Trump-ish.

    It's chaotic, it's stupid, it's incompetent, it's ridiculous, it's hopeless, it's all collapsing.

    And yet all the core messages to the target voters he needs are intact.

    Can Johnson campaign as well as Trump though ?
    Trump has the advantage of genuinely being stupid.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,316
    eristdoof said:

    AnneJGP said:

    A Gnu with Ken Clarke as PM and Harriet as DPM is the right choice.

    Make that a GND - there is no national unity.
    That would be a GoNaD
    Not encouraging inevitably they'll drop a bollock/
  • Mr. Pointer, a bit like Pertinax, he's best known for the brevity of his reign. But Pertinax at least tried to diminish the authority of the Praetorians (did it a bit too much, perhaps).

    Think I wrote a few days ago that the more the PM tightened his grip, the more MPs would slip through his fingers. Didn't expect it to happen to quite this extent.

    I wonder if the PCP should ask Cameron to stand in Jo Johnson's current seat.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    The real agenda on all sides is becoming very visibly exposed, that's good for clarity of choice at the upcoming election. Boris is having a bit of a mare though, he needs a win desperately
  • Do you think a GE is or is not the best way of settling Brexit

    Is: 21
    Is Not: 53
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    GIN1138 said:

    Tabman said:

    GIN1138 said:

    nico67 said:



    This forces Bozo to break his Brexit promise .

    Not sure why everyone assumes that "forcing Boris to break his promise" will cause problems for him?

    He can just say he's had to do this because Parliament is being totally unreasonable and people need to give him a majority to end all the game playing.

    If anything it will play into his Parliament Vs The People narrative.
    He gave a personal pledge that he would do it.

    Ask Nick Clegg about personal pledges and the electorate.
    Totally different situation.

    Clegg signed away his tuition fees pledge to get power. He sold the students down the river so he could form the coalition.

    In this situation Boris has done everything possible to try to deliver Brexit on 31st October even to the point of throwing out Tory grandees and splitting his own family but Parliament has just totally been unreasonable.

    I suspect most Leave voters will be sympathetic.
    Or ... they'll conclude he's played his hand very badly and promised something he was either (i) too incompetent to deliver or (ii) he knew he couldn't deliver and lied about being able to.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,316
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    This is all very Trump-ish.

    It's chaotic, it's stupid, it's incompetent, it's ridiculous, it's hopeless, it's all collapsing.

    And yet all the core messages to the target voters he needs are intact.

    Can Johnson campaign as well as Trump though ?
    Trump has the advantage of genuinely being stupid.
    so how come he's POTUS ?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    eristdoof said:

    AnneJGP said:

    A Gnu with Ken Clarke as PM and Harriet as DPM is the right choice.

    Make that a GND - there is no national unity.
    That would be a GoNaD
    Looking like more than a GOMOO though.
  • Scott_P said:
    Might be a coincidence but the Betfair odds against Revoke have shortened a bit.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    Mr. Pointer, a bit like Pertinax, he's best known for the brevity of his reign. But Pertinax at least tried to diminish the authority of the Praetorians (did it a bit too much, perhaps).

    Think I wrote a few days ago that the more the PM tightened his grip, the more MPs would slip through his fingers. Didn't expect it to happen to quite this extent.

    I wonder if the PCP should ask Cameron to stand in Jo Johnson's current seat.

    Or Osborne? ;-)
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046

    Going well for the PM.

    A 100% losing record in Commons votes.

    Didn't have a majority and tossed 21 MPs overboard to show how 'tough' he is.

    Now lost his own brother as an MP.

    Vaguely reminds me of Didius Julianus.

    Had to look Didius up on Wiki (my knowledge of Roman Emperors is mainly courtesy of I, Claudius) but yes, looks similar.

    (Fortunately we live in less bloody times, though - resignation and ignomy will be enough for BoJo.)
    Was he before or after Biggus Dickus?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,267
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:


    His people? While most Labour voters voted Remain most Labour seats voted Leave so under FPTP the more Corbyn shifts to block Brexit the better the Tories chances due to the many marginal Labour Leave seats

    If a constituency voted 52% Leave and Labour won the seat with 48% in GE 2015/17. You could resonably conclude that most of Labour voters there voted remain.
    So what, it only takes a few Labour Leavers there voting Tory or Brexit Party and the Tories take the seat
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Do you think a GE is or is not the best way of settling Brexit

    Is: 21
    Is Not: 53

    Do you want a GE vs do we need a GE would be polar opposite responses
    The best way to settle Brexit is to leave I'd think is most people's choice
  • eek said:

    Anyone looking at that and thinking another referendum will solve anything is utterly mad. Particularly because if that is the result the vast majority of people on the Leave side will feel they have had a legitimate victory stolen from them. Almost 50% of your population thinking democracy has failed and that the MPs are responsible for it is a recipe for complete disaster.
    How do you jump from 48% wish to leave the EU to 50% think democracy has failed.
    Learn to read. I said almost 50%.

    The country is split but only one side is going to have their legitimate victory taken away from them. If you think that will be anything other than a disaster then you have your head buried in the sand.
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    Nigelb said:

    Tabman said:

    ab195 said:

    I know it’s thinking a long way ahead but all these defections to the LibDems must be changing the character of the party. Thinking of the membership too. At some point, one hopes, Brexit won’t be the only issue, and you have to wonder where they’ll now go on other stuff.

    Great news. The only future for the party is as a broad centre-left to centre-right coalition.

    It's pissing off the few remaining sandalistas. Hopefully they'll resign in a hissy fit.
    While I tend to agree with you, it also ought to seek to retain those you refer to as 'sandalistas'.
    There are important issues (climate change and environment for example) which ought to unite all of the above.
    The problem is that they aren't real Liberals; they're the socialist "Red Guard" tendency that joined when the party was largely moribund, because they thought the Labour Party was too establishment. They don't really believe in Liberalism.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060
    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:


    His people? While most Labour voters voted Remain most Labour seats voted Leave so under FPTP the more Corbyn shifts to block Brexit the better the Tories chances due to the many marginal Labour Leave seats

    If a constituency voted 52% Leave and Labour won the seat with 48% in GE 2015/17. You could resonably conclude that most of Labour voters there voted remain.
    So what, it only takes a few Labour Leavers there voting Tory or Brexit Party and the Tories take the seat
    In a seat with 48% Labour! Dream on.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Do you think Boris Johnson cares more about
    His Own Interest: 42
    The National Interest: 21
    The Conservative Party’s interest: 5
    All of them equally: 16

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/jb2o1kckli/PVResults_190904_Snap_Final.pdf

    Regional breakdowns do not bode well for “Boris will sweep the North”...

    Awful polling for Johnson.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    edited September 2019

    The real agenda on all sides is becoming very visibly exposed, that's good for clarity of choice at the upcoming election. Boris is having a bit of a mare though, he needs a win desperately

    Where is he going to get one from - they isn't anything left in this session of Parliament that could vaguely look like a win.

    And next he has to run a week of Queen's speech debates where everyone can attack all his plans before voting it down. Only after that can / will an election be called.

    If Cummings wargamed this I dread to think who his opponent was - a dead sheep?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,267
    edited September 2019
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:



    Which if those Labour Leave voters all vote Brexit Party and Tory would be enough for the Tories to take those Labour Leave marginal seats

    Why do you think that Brexit is the single most important issue for all of these Labour leave voters, making them turn their backs on a party they have traditionally followed? There are other issues than Brexit in the world even if sometimes it doesn't feel like it. Have the Conservative Party been forgiven for everything else that they have been perceived to have done in the North? I don't get this Leave = Tory/Brexit Vote. Plenty of Labour voters disagreed with the Iraq War but didn't flood to the LD's.
    6% of 2017 Labour voters now voting Tory with Yougov, 8% of 2017 Labour voters now voting Brexit Party, only 1% of 2017 Tory voters now voting Labour.

    The evidence is there
  • There must be a chance the Johnson administration will simply collapse in acrimony.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited September 2019
    Boris should strike a very loving and conciliatory tone when asked about Jo, I think there will be some sympathy for them both of they retain a very warm tone now the deed is dood
    A lot of laughing at him too, but some sympathy for family strains
    That might also help soothe some of the anger over the 21, if he can show hes not completely ruthless and cold
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    malcolmg said:

    eristdoof said:

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1169547762641358848

    Nope, more than 50% of the population are stupider than the average person.

    Wrong. 50% of the population are stupider than the *median* person.
    Think he was right first time and 50% was low call
    " 50% of the population are stupider than the *median* person." is definitely right.

    "more than 50% of the population are stupider than the mean person" is (probably) also right.

    Average can be used to mean "mean" or "median".

    I like the old chestnut "Most welshmen have more than the average number of legs".
    I understand that but was jokingly saying that he was right that more than 50% of the population are stupid and that his number should have been higher.
    PS: the Welsh joke is amusing, if a bit harsh on Welshmen
    Equally true of Scotland, malcolm.
    Though it really ought be 'very, very, very slightly more than the average number of legs'.
    Not sure about the English - we may have more than our fair share of three legged oddities.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:



    Which if those Labour Leave voters all vote Brexit Party and Tory would be enough for the Tories to take those Labour Leave marginal seats

    Why do you think that Brexit is the single most important issue for all of these Labour leave voters, making them turn their backs on a party they have traditionally followed? There are other issues than Brexit in the world even if sometimes it doesn't feel like it. Have the Conservative Party been forgiven for everything else that they have been perceived to have done in the North? I don't get this Leave = Tory/Brexit Vote. Plenty of Labour voters disagreed with the Iraq War but didn't flood to the LD's.
    6% of 2017 Labour voters now voting Tory with Yougov, 8% of 2017 Labour voters now voting Brexit Party, only 1% of 2017 Tory voters now voting Tory.

    The evidence is there
    only 1% of 2017 Tory voters now voting Tory - that's a frightening statistic
This discussion has been closed.