@HYUFD genuine question, no need to go into details, I am not trying to trickm or embarrass you. I have to ask do you have any small doubts or concerns about the performance of the Johnson administration this week? Or do you genuinely believe that everything is going as planned and that things are all working out well?
10% Tory poll lead some disaster, the Westminster commentariat so out of touch now it is beyond a joke
May I gently remind you of Mrs. May's polling lead prior to the last election.
You surely cannot deny that the last few days have been... sub-optimal for the Prime Minister ?
Wait until the weekend polls, then we will see what a 'disaster' it has been for Boris
Haven't you been saying for months now that the Tories would do badly in the next election if we're still in the EU after Oct 31st? Do you not believe that's the case any more, or do you think this week hasn't made that outcome any more likely?
Boris needs to go on TV each and every day and explain that Labour is forcing a post-31 October election precisely so that he has to sign a piece of paper surrendering Britain to the EU.
Boris: Well, here's that piece of paper [lifts up copy of extension agreement]. Vote for me on Nov 7 and this is what I'll do to it [rips up copy of extension agreement].
Rinse and repeat, cannibalize BXP, keep the voters who fear Corbyn more than Brexit. Profit!
JRM announces another attempt on a GE in the HOC on Monday
Can't Bercow refuse this?
Yep - an election was requested this week and it should be once per a Parliamentary session.
Mind you that rule has been broken a few times so lets see what happens.
Sorry but that’s not right. The FTPA has to be treated differently, else if you won one vote of no confidence you’d not have to face another one that session, whatever happened. It would be very eccentric for any speaker to suggest that any vote under the FTPA could only happen once.
The vast majority (on both leave and remain sides) who seem to believe that he really is going for no deal cannot explain why he went for prorogation dates that had no benefit at all for delivering no deal?
If he wanted prorogation to deliver no deal it would have been a month later. If he thought that was too controversial it would have been no prorogation. The dates he chose can only have been to signal to his followers how committed he is to no deal, whilst at the same time making no deal on Oct 31 extremely unlikely.
They achieved nothing to help with no deal, and plenty that blocked it.
I'm still holding that view a little bit.
So, ultimately, you think a Boris Deal passes?
Most likely an election first - that he wins - and then a Deal?
That will make the decision to Prorogue wonderfully ironic. Perhaps Mr Johnson will start providing evidence to the courts that Proroguing was after all illegal!
This "can't be trusted" line on Johnson has the potential to stick. It seems to have suddenly surfaced as the no 1 Labour attack line - whether as an edict from Labour HQ or (more likely) other MPs following Jess Phillips' lead.
Boris character is hardly a surprise, the electorate are well aware of it. When all parties go down the route of character attacks they simply raise the issue that "theyre all like that" and damage themselves in the process.
Boris has past form which can be brought up that others just don't have.
Encouraging the underling you are having an affair with to have an abortion is a story that will destroy Boris's female vote.
Likewise being fired not once but twice having been caught out lying.
"Boris has past form" - and Corbyn doesnt ? I mean he has a charge sheet as long as BoJo but just on other issues.
Normally its routine to claim that the next election will be the dirtiest ever and it rarely is, But given the lunacy at Wminster currently, this one might just live up to the billing.
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
That will make the decision to Prorogue wonderfully ironic. Perhaps Mr Johnson will start providing evidence to the courts that Proroguing was after all illegal!
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
Boris asked for an election last night and last - I really don't think he can ask for another one a week after his previous request.
As soon as Parliament is prorogued the opposition can start asking for an election knowing that one cannot be called until about October 22nd due to the Queen's speech debate.
And when the election is called it will be after 5+ weeks of people all calling for an election with Boris unable to respond with one.
He got a very big majority for an election last night, not enough however under FTPA, he can argue there is a clear majority for an election (289 to 58)and propose an amendment to the FTPA Monday and labour have to actively block him, showing they are playing it for party mot country
Only because most people intentionally abstained as it needed 434 votes to be carried and there wasn't 434 MPs in the house.
But they did abstain and he did get a big majority of votes for it. If they abstain they are not against nor in favour, if they move from abstain to voting no they are actively blocking. Nobody is going to buy that it's for anything other than party advantage and 'screw the country/voters'. Its simply not a tenable position to be in favour of an election and vote against one
The complaint that Corbyn isn't allowing an election will be pathetic once Labour has voted for an election.
That will make the decision to Prorogue wonderfully ironic. Perhaps Mr Johnson will start providing evidence to the courts that Proroguing was after all illegal!
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
It does if the commons cannot propose an alternative PM in 14 days. It would make the election Oct 28th I think if it went through?
The vast majority (on both leave and remain sides) who seem to believe that he really is going for no deal cannot explain why he went for prorogation dates that had no benefit at all for delivering no deal?
If he wanted prorogation to deliver no deal it would have been a month later. If he thought that was too controversial it would have been no prorogation. The dates he chose can only have been to signal to his followers how committed he is to no deal, whilst at the same time making no deal on Oct 31 extremely unlikely.
They achieved nothing to help with no deal, and plenty that blocked it.
I'm still holding that view a little bit.
So, ultimately, you think a Boris Deal passes?
Most likely an election first - that he wins - and then a Deal?
If he gets a majority of 30+ we get a deal around end of the year. The EU will be happier to negotiate solely with a govt and not having to also manage the hung parliament. If he gets a majority less than 30 - not sure what happens If he doesnt get a majority - none of the other parties will touch him with a bargepole and he will have escaped responsibility for no deal, and have a loyal base for a future comeback, probably not straight away.
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
But what about the risk of it passing, no alternative government being found, and Boris calling an election for after Oct 31?
10% Tory poll lead some disaster, the Westminster commentariat so out of touch now it is beyond a joke
May I gently remind you of Mrs. May's polling lead prior to the last election.
You surely cannot deny that the last few days have been... sub-optimal for the Prime Minister ?
Wait until the weekend polls, then we will see what a 'disaster' it has been for Boris
Haven't you been saying for months now that the Tories would do badly in the next election if we're still in the EU after Oct 31st? Do you not believe that's the case any more, or do you think this week hasn't made that outcome any more likely?
No, as Boris has voted against extension. Had he extended of his own free will it would have been a disaster but if Boris only extends as the law requires him to but still promises to Leave as soon as he gets the Tories a majority I doubt that affects his rating at all, in fact it probably boosts it further in opposition to diehard Remainer MPs
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
It does if the commons cannot propose an alternative PM in 14 days. It would make the election Oct 28th I think if it went through?
10% Tory poll lead some disaster, the Westminster commentariat so out of touch now it is beyond a joke
May I gently remind you of Mrs. May's polling lead prior to the last election.
You surely cannot deny that the last few days have been... sub-optimal for the Prime Minister ?
Wait until the weekend polls, then we will see what a 'disaster' it has been for Boris
Haven't you been saying for months now that the Tories would do badly in the next election if we're still in the EU after Oct 31st? Do you not believe that's the case any more, or do you think this week hasn't made that outcome any more likely?
Boris needs to go on TV each and every day and explain that Labour is forcing a post-31 October election precisely so that he has to sign a piece of paper surrendering Britain to the EU.
Boris: Well, here's that piece of paper [lifts up copy of extension agreement]. Vote for me on Nov 7 and this is what I'll do to it [rips up copy of extension agreement].
Rinse and repeat, cannibalize BXP, keep the voters who fear Corbyn more than Brexit. Profit!
And the opposition will reply that you can't trust Boris to keep his word about anything. If he wins he will bring back May's deal/go over the cliff (depending on which opposition party we are talking about).
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
But what about the risk of it passing, no alternative government being found, and Boris calling an election for after Oct 31?
Boris will have to, by law, request an a50 extension because of the new Act.
The 'Do Not Prorogue' petition has levelled off at just over 1.7m but I am expecting a lot more signatures to come flooding in from hard Brexiteers who realise that prorogation is now boxing them into an extension beyond 31 October.
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
Listening to JRM announcing the next attempt at the GE, Bercow was very relaxed and, believe it or not, there was a good humoured exchange between the two.
Labour did not object so Monday is decision time for Corbyn
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
But what about the risk of it passing, no alternative government being found, and Boris calling an election for after Oct 31?
Boris will have to, by law, request an a50 extension because of the new Act.
He may. He may also attach conditions to any request.
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
But what about the risk of it passing, no alternative government being found, and Boris calling an election for after Oct 31?
Boris will have to, by law, request an a50 extension because of the new Act.
And if he says "I'm not signing it - either call an election, VONC me, or go **** yourselves"?
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
But what about the risk of it passing, no alternative government being found, and Boris calling an election for after Oct 31?
Boris will have to, by law, request an a50 extension because of the new Act.
And if he says "I'm not signing it - either call an election, VONC me, or go **** yourselves"?
The one thing Corbyn does need to do over the weekend is come up with an actual, alternative date for the election. Say "it should be on [x] of November of December" then challenge Boris to back it, and if he refuses, asking him why he's so "frit" of the scrutiny that would come with a long campaign.
JRM announces another attempt on a GE in the HOC on Monday
Can't Bercow refuse this?
Yep - an election was requested this week and it should be once per a Parliamentary session.
Mind you that rule has been broken a few times so lets see what happens.
He could vote to amend the FTPA, it's different legislation.
And if Nicola goes for it it'll be game on.
That has to go through the Lords and could be blocked there.
Good luck labour selling that to the electorate. 'We whipped our unelected Lords to stop you having a vote. But we want a vote 2 weeks later. We will tell you when you may vote, you will comply'
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
But what about the risk of it passing, no alternative government being found, and Boris calling an election for after Oct 31?
Boris will have to, by law, request an a50 extension because of the new Act.
And if he says "I'm not signing it - either call an election, VONC me, or go **** yourselves"?
He will be in contempt of parliament... Lock him up!
10% Tory poll lead some disaster, the Westminster commentariat so out of touch now it is beyond a joke
May I gently remind you of Mrs. May's polling lead prior to the last election.
You surely cannot deny that the last few days have been... sub-optimal for the Prime Minister ?
Wait until the weekend polls, then we will see what a 'disaster' it has been for Boris
Haven't you been saying for months now that the Tories would do badly in the next election if we're still in the EU after Oct 31st? Do you not believe that's the case any more, or do you think this week hasn't made that outcome any more likely?
Boris needs to go on TV each and every day and explain that Labour is forcing a post-31 October election precisely so that he has to sign a piece of paper surrendering Britain to the EU.
Boris: Well, here's that piece of paper [lifts up copy of extension agreement]. Vote for me on Nov 7 and this is what I'll do to it [rips up copy of extension agreement].
Rinse and repeat, cannibalize BXP, keep the voters who fear Corbyn more than Brexit. Profit!
And the opposition will reply that you can't trust Boris to keep his word about anything. If he wins he will bring back May's deal/go over the cliff (depending on which opposition party we are talking about).
You can't trust Boris.
But you can trust Corbyn to be a loony lefty. Hence the extreme difficulty he'll have in winning a majority.
The one thing Corbyn does need to do over the weekend is come up with an actual, alternative date for the election. Say "it should be on [x] of November of December" then challenge Boris to back it, and if he refuses, asking him why he's so "frit" of the scrutiny that would come with a long campaign.
He also doesn’t need bad polls as the breadcrumbs to his election chicken.
10% Tory poll lead some disaster, the Westminster commentariat so out of touch now it is beyond a joke
May I gently remind you of Mrs. May's polling lead prior to the last election.
You surely cannot deny that the last few days have been... sub-optimal for the Prime Minister ?
Wait until the weekend polls, then we will see what a 'disaster' it has been for Boris
Haven't you been saying for months now that the Tories would do badly in the next election if we're still in the EU after Oct 31st? Do you not believe that's the case any more, or do you think this week hasn't made that outcome any more likely?
No, as Boris has voted against extension. Had he extended of his own free will it would have been a disaster but if Boris only extends as the law requires him to but still promises to Leave as soon as he gets the Tories a majority I doubt that affects his rating at all, in fact it probably boosts it further in opposition to diehard Remainer MPs
This is an outright lie. If the search facility on this forum was decent I would find the your posts. You clearly wrote, that if we had not Brexited by the 31st of October then tories would lose huge numbers of votes to the Brexit party.
It seems rather likely that the bill will pass, pro roguing will go ahead and Boris won't agree an extension with the EU and thus we leave with no deal.
This "can't be trusted" line on Johnson has the potential to stick. It seems to have suddenly surfaced as the no 1 Labour attack line - whether as an edict from Labour HQ or (more likely) other MPs following Jess Phillips' lead.
It is perfect. Simple line, plenty of evidence - even his own brother doesn't trust him etc etc.
Yes if only there was a conference season where every man and his dog will take credit for shackling Boris and frustrating the result of the referendum. Then Boris will have plenty of quotes to use in his own speech as to why he tried everything he could including offering an election and Parliament refused. I’m pretty sure they already have the montage of clips of senior labour politician demanding an election
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
Listening to JRM announcing the next attempt at the GE, Bercow was very relaxed and, believe it or not, there was a good humoured exchange between the two.
Labour did not object so Monday is decision time for Corbyn
Nope - Monday Corbyn says he wants a VONC.
That allows him to repeat during the election debate that Boris cannot be trusted.
Then on Tuesday we see how the VONC plays out and on Wednesday there can always be another election debate if Boris wins the VONC (he won't).
If he gets a majority of 30+ we get a deal around end of the year. The EU will be happier to negotiate solely with a govt and not having to also manage the hung parliament. If he gets a majority less than 30 - not sure what happens If he doesnt get a majority - none of the other parties will touch him with a bargepole and he will have escaped responsibility for no deal, and have a loyal base for a future comeback, probably not straight away.
That was broadly the rationale for my (quite big!) lay of 2019 No Deal.
He must win an election if he wants to do it.
But if he wins an election he can do a Deal instead.
And the UK apparently a one party state come November.
Not really a problem, as extrapolating from the graph within a few months the whole country will be Libdem MPs. The issue for me would be where we will get enough immigrants to get the future Libdem MPs after that? How we would manage the point scoring system?
@HYUFD genuine question, no need to go into details, I am not trying to trickm or embarrass you. I have to ask do you have any small doubts or concerns about the performance of the Johnson administration this week? Or do you genuinely believe that everything is going as planned and that things are all working out well?
They are going well, the images of diehard Remainer MPs and Corbyn blocking Boris delivering Brexit is all that matters
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
But what about the risk of it passing, no alternative government being found, and Boris calling an election for after Oct 31?
Boris will have to, by law, request an a50 extension because of the new Act.
He may. He may also attach conditions to any request.
I request an extension to Jan 31 2020, and Calais back.
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
Listening to JRM announcing the next attempt at the GE, Bercow was very relaxed and, believe it or not, there was a good humoured exchange between the two.
Labour did not object so Monday is decision time for Corbyn
Nope - Monday Corbyn says he wants a VONC.
That allows him to repeat during the election debate that Boris cannot be trusted.
Then on Tuesday we see how the VONC plays out and on Wednesday there can always be another election debate if Boris wins the VONC (he won't).
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
No as Swinson would veto Corbyn as PM
That would send a lot of Lab -> Lib switchers back to Labour and help attract more potential Con -> Lib switchers.
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
Listening to JRM announcing the next attempt at the GE, Bercow was very relaxed and, believe it or not, there was a good humoured exchange between the two.
Labour did not object so Monday is decision time for Corbyn
Nope - Monday Corbyn says he wants a VONC.
That allows him to repeat during the election debate that Boris cannot be trusted.
Then on Tuesday we see how the VONC plays out and on Wednesday there can always be another election debate if Boris wins the VONC (he won't).
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
Listening to JRM announcing the next attempt at the GE, Bercow was very relaxed and, believe it or not, there was a good humoured exchange between the two.
Labour did not object so Monday is decision time for Corbyn
Nope - Monday Corbyn says he wants a VONC.
That allows him to repeat during the election debate that Boris cannot be trusted.
Then on Tuesday we see how the VONC plays out and on Wednesday there can always be another election debate if Boris wins the VONC (he won't).
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
Listening to JRM announcing the next attempt at the GE, Bercow was very relaxed and, believe it or not, there was a good humoured exchange between the two.
Labour did not object so Monday is decision time for Corbyn
Nope - Monday Corbyn says he wants a VONC.
That allows him to repeat during the election debate that Boris cannot be trusted.
Then on Tuesday we see how the VONC plays out and on Wednesday there can always be another election debate if Boris wins the VONC (he won't).
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
But what about the risk of it passing, no alternative government being found, and Boris calling an election for after Oct 31?
Boris will have to, by law, request an a50 extension because of the new Act.
He may. He may also attach conditions to any request.
I request an extension to Jan 31 2020, and Calais back.
I request an extension but I am afraid there is no budget for any contributions.
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
Listening to JRM announcing the next attempt at the GE, Bercow was very relaxed and, believe it or not, there was a good humoured exchange between the two.
Labour did not object so Monday is decision time for Corbyn
Nope - Monday Corbyn says he wants a VONC.
That allows him to repeat during the election debate that Boris cannot be trusted.
Then on Tuesday we see how the VONC plays out and on Wednesday there can always be another election debate if Boris wins the VONC (he won't).
You seem very scared of a GE
Nope - I just want it after October 31st...
Edit to add - because Boris cannot be trusted.
This "scared" line is nonsensical. Why would somebody be scared of an election now but not in November?
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
Listening to JRM announcing the next attempt at the GE, Bercow was very relaxed and, believe it or not, there was a good humoured exchange between the two.
Labour did not object so Monday is decision time for Corbyn
Nope - Monday Corbyn says he wants a VONC.
That allows him to repeat during the election debate that Boris cannot be trusted.
Then on Tuesday we see how the VONC plays out and on Wednesday there can always be another election debate if Boris wins the VONC (he won't).
Isn't HoC proroguing on after Monday ?
All the more reason to ask for a VONC if it can't be debated because of Government tricks...
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
Listening to JRM announcing the next attempt at the GE, Bercow was very relaxed and, believe it or not, there was a good humoured exchange between the two.
Labour did not object so Monday is decision time for Corbyn
Nope - Monday Corbyn says he wants a VONC.
That allows him to repeat during the election debate that Boris cannot be trusted.
Then on Tuesday we see how the VONC plays out and on Wednesday there can always be another election debate if Boris wins the VONC (he won't).
You seem very scared of a GE
Nope - I just want it after October 31st...
Edit to add - because Boris cannot be trusted.
If he can't be trusted then how can he be trusted to sign the letter before the 31st ?
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
Listening to JRM announcing the next attempt at the GE, Bercow was very relaxed and, believe it or not, there was a good humoured exchange between the two.
Labour did not object so Monday is decision time for Corbyn
Nope - Monday Corbyn says he wants a VONC.
That allows him to repeat during the election debate that Boris cannot be trusted.
Then on Tuesday we see how the VONC plays out and on Wednesday there can always be another election debate if Boris wins the VONC (he won't).
You seem very scared of a GE
Because he knows commie Corbyn would get creamed.
I am "afraid" of a GE on Johnson's terms because it would benefit... Johnson. It is good politics to not allow him what he wants. A GE after 31st Oct is beneficial to every party leader not named Boris Johnson.
Which is on Monday and fulfils Corbyn's statement in the HOC when he said labour would vote for a GE once the Act received RA
Politically much better for Corbyn to force Boris to extend A50.
But he needs to tread carefully and it will be interesting to see what explanation Labour can come up with as to why they favour a post 31 Oct election.
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
Listening to JRM announcing the next attempt at the GE, Bercow was very relaxed and, believe it or not, there was a good humoured exchange between the two.
Labour did not object so Monday is decision time for Corbyn
Nope - Monday Corbyn says he wants a VONC.
That allows him to repeat during the election debate that Boris cannot be trusted.
Then on Tuesday we see how the VONC plays out and on Wednesday there can always be another election debate if Boris wins the VONC (he won't).
You seem very scared of a GE
Nope - I just want it after October 31st...
Edit to add - because Boris cannot be trusted.
Downthread you were saying didnt want Corbyn as PM either. They will both simply slag each other to a standstill.
I'm not convinced that constantly reflecting the opinions of the average US voter (as they change over time) is quite the qualification for actually leading the country...
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
No as Swinson would veto Corbyn as PM
Hardly a surprise as politically she is far closer to Boris Johnson than Jeremy Corbyn. It would not surprise me if she would prop up a Tory government after the GE in exchange for a workaround on Brexit. Leopards and spots and all that.
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
Listening to JRM announcing the next attempt at the GE, Bercow was very relaxed and, believe it or not, there was a good humoured exchange between the two.
Labour did not object so Monday is decision time for Corbyn
Nope - Monday Corbyn says he wants a VONC.
That allows him to repeat during the election debate that Boris cannot be trusted.
Then on Tuesday we see how the VONC plays out and on Wednesday there can always be another election debate if Boris wins the VONC (he won't).
You seem very scared of a GE
Nope - I just want it after October 31st...
Edit to add - because Boris cannot be trusted.
If he can't be trusted then how can he be trusted to sign the letter before the 31st ?
He can't, but it will be easier to get Parliament (and/or possibly the courts) to intervene outside of an election period.
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
Listening to JRM announcing the next attempt at the GE, Bercow was very relaxed and, believe it or not, there was a good humoured exchange between the two.
Labour did not object so Monday is decision time for Corbyn
Nope - Monday Corbyn says he wants a VONC.
That allows him to repeat during the election debate that Boris cannot be trusted.
Then on Tuesday we see how the VONC plays out and on Wednesday there can always be another election debate if Boris wins the VONC (he won't).
You seem very scared of a GE
Because he knows commie Corbyn would get creamed.
I am "afraid" of a GE on Johnson's terms because it would benefit... Johnson. It is good politics to not allow him what he wants. A GE after 31st Oct is beneficial to every party leader not named Boris Johnson.
Thankyou , the real reason isn't that Johnson can't be trusted - it is the wish to either humiliate him by making him sign the letter, be forced to resign or break the law.
Likely to be a totally bifurcated view in the country of all these coming and goings. The confirmation bias is strong on this website. Let’s see some polls gang before jumping to any hasty conclusions.
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
But what about the risk of it passing, no alternative government being found, and Boris calling an election for after Oct 31?
Boris will have to, by law, request an a50 extension because of the new Act.
He may. He may also attach conditions to any request.
I request an extension to Jan 31 2020, and Calais back.
I request an extension but I am afraid there is no budget for any contributions.
Or demand a rebate due to the effect of the EUs delay in agreeing an acceptable deal on the British taxpayer
Why ? He doesn't want an election before 31st October.
A VONC doesn't necessarily lead to an election at all let alone before 31 Oct, but it does solve the problem of the Tories calling him frit. He could get into no10 to enact yesterdays Bill.
No as Swinson would veto Corbyn as PM
That would send a lot of Lab -> Lib switchers back to Labour and help attract more potential Con -> Lib switchers.
As Corbyn cannot win a majority I'm hoping that that is the case. It's one reason why I don't mind Corbyn leading things now as Labour cannot win a majority anymore and if Labour lose a few seats it's valid that the Lib Dems and SNP ask for another leader in return for support. Corbyn having been PM may well accept that.
Surely Heidi Allen must be next in the drip drip drip of new Lib Dems
Allen seemed to be genuinely interested in staying independent to help coordinate cooperation between the different remain parties. With an extra clutch of Independent Conservatives she may feel she can do more good from a less partisan position than as a member of the Lib Dems - though of course the imminence of a general election may have an influence.
10% Tory poll lead some disaster, the Westminster commentariat so out of touch now it is beyond a joke
May I gently remind you of Mrs. May's polling lead prior to the last election.
You surely cannot deny that the last few days have been... sub-optimal for the Prime Minister ?
Wait until the weekend polls, then we will see what a 'disaster' it has been for Boris
Haven't you been saying for months now that the Tories would do badly in the next election if we're still in the EU after Oct 31st? Do you not believe that's the case any more, or do you think this week hasn't made that outcome any more likely?
Boris needs to go on TV each and every day and explain that Labour is forcing a post-31 October election precisely so that he has to sign a piece of paper surrendering Britain to the EU.
Boris: Well, here's that piece of paper [lifts up copy of extension agreement]. Vote for me on Nov 7 and this is what I'll do to it [rips up copy of extension agreement].
Rinse and repeat, cannibalize BXP, keep the voters who fear Corbyn more than Brexit. Profit!
And the opposition will reply that you can't trust Boris to keep his word about anything. If he wins he will bring back May's deal/go over the cliff (depending on which opposition party we are talking about).
You can't trust Boris.
But you can trust Corbyn to be a loony lefty. Hence the extreme difficulty he'll have in winning a majority.
Certainly, but the issue at this election is whether or not the Tories get a majority. If they don't Brexit is over.
Comments
Could just be a ruse to allow B. Johnson to resign, rather than go to the EU and ask for an A50 extension.
Boris: Well, here's that piece of paper [lifts up copy of extension agreement].
Vote for me on Nov 7 and this is what I'll do to it [rips up copy of extension agreement].
Rinse and repeat, cannibalize BXP, keep the voters who fear Corbyn more than Brexit. Profit!
There is no point in trying that again.
Courage and shuffle the cards as Flashy would say.
Reinforces their credentials as the sensible centre.
So, ultimately, you think a Boris Deal passes?
Most likely an election first - that he wins - and then a Deal?
Perhaps Mr Johnson will start providing evidence to the courts that Proroguing was after all illegal!
Normally its routine to claim that the next election will be the dirtiest ever and it rarely is, But given the lunacy at Wminster currently, this one might just live up to the billing.
https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1169579142184165376?s=20
IIRC it was felxible, between 9th and 12th September.
Then he can argue against the election as he doesn't want Boris in charge.
JRM/Boris can then prorogue Parliament having failed to get an election or lose the VONC the following day.
If he gets a majority less than 30 - not sure what happens
If he doesnt get a majority - none of the other parties will touch him with a bargepole and he will have escaped responsibility for no deal, and have a loyal base for a future comeback, probably not straight away.
Frit was used regularly where I grew up (in Boston), although it was 'frit to death' more often.
You can't trust Boris.
A Prime Minister shouldn't be able to call a snap election just because it benefits him. Both sides of the house have to agree.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/269157
Labour did not object so Monday is decision time for Corbyn
If he could/did, it would be politically 'brave'.
https://twitter.com/carlgardner/status/1169582166927446028
That allows him to repeat during the election debate that Boris cannot be trusted.
Then on Tuesday we see how the VONC plays out and on Wednesday there can always be another election debate if Boris wins the VONC (he won't).
He must win an election if he wants to do it.
But if he wins an election he can do a Deal instead.
Be rather shocked if they don't.
Edit to add - because Boris cannot be trusted.
"You seem very scared of a GE."
He's frit to death on it, to use the current political vernacular.
https://twitter.com/ritapanahi/status/1169520150615220231?s=21
But he needs to tread carefully and it will be interesting to see what explanation Labour can come up with as to why they favour a post 31 Oct election.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/joe-biden-iraq-vote-what-now.html
I'm not convinced that constantly reflecting the opinions of the average US voter (as they change over time) is quite the qualification for actually leading the country...