Anyone looking at that and thinking another referendum will solve anything is utterly mad. Particularly because if that is the result the vast majority of people on the Leave side will feel they have had a legitimate victory stolen from them. Almost 50% of your population thinking democracy has failed and that the MPs are responsible for it is a recipe for complete disaster.
How do you jump from 48% wish to leave the EU to 50% think democracy has failed.
Learn to read. I said almost 50%.
The country is split but only one side is going to have their legitimate victory taken away from them. If you think that will be anything other than a disaster then you have your head buried in the sand.
It is a hard problem with the country so polarised. I agree with you Richard that a Norway-ish type Brexit would have been the best compromise solution, but sadly I think that too (in the unlikely event of its happening) might well be seen as the theft of a "legitimate victory".
Though in its favour it might be seen as depriving both sides of 'victory'.
I would agree that a soft Brexit of some type has to be the answer. Whilst it won't solve all the issues it will avoid the two extemes of Remain and No Deal and so limit the backlash.
Agreed.
There are two possible outcomes.
1 An EFTA style soft Brexit 2 Remain, with genuine reform and an opt-out from every closer union.
Ideally any solution needs to be put to the people in a referendum.
where is this Reform going to come from ?
The Reformotron (tm) obviously! Apparently the EU are up for it.
The EU are always up for reform, inevitably it involves more Europe.
Cummings is pursuing the only agenda to win the next general election ie deliver Brexit at all costs and end austerity
So you have a CINO government. What's the point of an anti-business spend-thrift Tory government? Might as well vote for Corbyn and get the Real Thing.
I dont think Jo is going to be particularly popular with his colleagues today, not the leavers anyway and remainers backing Boris arent going to be thrilled with him
It puts people like Rudd, Hancock and Morgan on the spot.
As a Brexiteer and speaking on behalf of all 4 Leavers in Chez BJO. These are my thoughts on BREXIT
Literally nobody voted for No Deal, let alone 17.4million. We'll get nowhere until fellow Brexiters take their heads out of their arses and accept this obvious fact.
A few will accept No Deal as an outcome but the No No Dealers are by far and away in the majority and there IS NO MANDATE FOR NO DEAL.
Jeez It's like trying to take a lollipop off a child getting these people with their heads in their arse to see the reality of where we are now.
When you look what people are saying in polls support for no deal is rising. I supported the WA as was as it seemed the best compromise but we are not in an era of sense and compromise. Despite what is written on here
- No deal remains the most preferred option. If the numbers were reversed and this was revoke then there would be a feasible - Support for prorogue petition has dwindled as people realise that Parliament still has the ability to do what is required, and proroguing for a short period at the time proposed is not actually that serious. - Boris has taken the difficult decisions early. He made vote on anti no deal a confidence vote and told those who supported the bill he would remove whip and he has. Whilst he no longer has a majority, May had more of a rebellion and Corbyn has nowhere near enough support. - Boris has sacrificed his majority for a simple message going into an election. .What is the simple Labour message? They are still two parties within a party with Starmer briefing one thing and Corbyn the opposite. - Despite assertions on here about how evil the current government is - they have done nothing yet - how can thy be judged?
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
Cummings is pursuing the only agenda to win the next general election ie deliver Brexit at all costs and end austerity
So you have a CINO government. What's the point of an anti-business spend-thrift Tory government? Might as well vote for Corbyn and get the Real Thing.
Not spendthrift, the Tories did the hard work in the coalition of reducing the deficit.
Now they are a tax cutting, easing off on austerity pro Brexit Party as opposed to the ' No magic money tree', dementia tax May while Corbyn still promising to deliver Brexit in 2017 while now refusing to deliver.
In the battle of the populists Boris will beat Corbyn now Corbyn has sided with the establishment to block Brexit
Cummings is pursuing the only agenda to win the next general election ie deliver Brexit at all costs and end austerity
So you have a CINO government. What's the point of an anti-business spend-thrift Tory government? Might as well vote for Corbyn and get the Real Thing.
Cummings is pursuing the only agenda to win the next general election ie deliver Brexit at all costs and end austerity
So you have a CINO government. What's the point of an anti-business spend-thrift Tory government? Might as well vote for Corbyn and get the Real Thing.
Not spendthrift, the Tories did the hard work in the coalition of reducing the deficit.
Now they are a tax cutting, easing off on austerity pro Brexit Party as opposed to the ' No magic money tree', dementia tax May while Corbyn still promising to deliver Brexit in 2017 while now refusing to deliver.
In the battle of the populists Boris will beat Corbyn now Corbyn has sided with the establishment to block Brexit
The Tories aren't reducing austerity there will still be 20,000 less police then there was in 2010.
Other statements of fact also exist to show the fact.
Can we save some of the comments on here about how dreadful Boris is, and how his project is over, to come back to anger the election. I think they might look a bit silly. Polling this weekend is likely to be fun.
If no GE is called before prorogation then Boris gets to spend two weeks using the bully pulpit, outside of any electoral balance rules, to ram home his message without a parliament to challenge him. I also still think there are ways round that law, if the Government is clever and ruthless.
To paraphrase Corbyn, I don’t think remainers will be smiling in October.
There must be a chance the Johnson administration will simply collapse in acrimony.
Not negligible.
The brother's resignation is telling.
It tells me 2 things. That Boris really is going for No Deal and is not contemplating anything else.
That those who know him best can see that as PM he is unfit for purpose.
The vast majority (on both leave and remain sides) who seem to believe that he really is going for no deal cannot explain why he went for prorogation dates that had no benefit at all for delivering no deal?
If he wanted prorogation to deliver no deal it would have been a month later. If he thought that was too controversial it would have been no prorogation. The dates he chose can only have been to signal to his followers how committed he is to no deal, whilst at the same time making no deal on Oct 31 extremely unlikely.
They achieved nothing to help with no deal, and plenty that blocked it.
Genuine question, is there a conservative moderating force in number 10 that might be able to counterbalance the dual force of Boris' ego and Cummings that is currently driving the Tory party mad.
Is there some residual conservative DNA is Boris' body?
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
I am not sure that "the dog ate my homework" will wash - Boris promised to be out on 31 October, no ifs no buts and no general election. Either he was lying or he promised something he knew he could not deliver.
That being said, it’s sad and alarming that the country is now so split. The comments on here are indicative of the sorts of people who’ll be very upset come polling day, and will become hard to reconcile with. It saddens me that we might embark on a US style “culture war”.
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
Boris asked for an election last night and last - I really don't think he can ask for another one a week after his previous request.
As soon as Parliament is prorogued the opposition can start asking for an election knowing that one cannot be called until about October 22nd due to the Queen's speech debate.
And when the election is called it will be after 5+ weeks of people all calling for an election with Boris unable to respond with one.
As a Brexiteer and speaking on behalf of all 4 Leavers in Chez BJO. These are my thoughts on BREXIT
Literally nobody voted for No Deal, let alone 17.4million. We'll get nowhere until fellow Brexiters take their heads out of their arses and accept this obvious fact.
A few will accept No Deal as an outcome but the No No Dealers are by far and away in the majority and there IS NO MANDATE FOR NO DEAL.
Jeez It's like trying to take a lollipop off a child getting these people with their heads in their arse to see the reality of where we are now.
When you look what people are saying in polls support for no deal is rising. I supported the WA as was as it seemed the best compromise but we are not in an era of sense and compromise. Despite what is written on here
- No deal remains the most preferred option. If the numbers were reversed and this was revoke then there would be a feasible - Support for prorogue petition has dwindled as people realise that Parliament still has the ability to do what is required, and proroguing for a short period at the time proposed is not actually that serious. - Boris has taken the difficult decisions early. He made vote on anti no deal a confidence vote and told those who supported the bill he would remove whip and he has. Whilst he no longer has a majority, May had more of a rebellion and Corbyn has nowhere near enough support. - Boris has sacrificed his majority for a simple message going into an election. .What is the simple Labour message? They are still two parties within a party with Starmer briefing one thing and Corbyn the opposite. - Despite assertions on here about how evil the current government is - they have done nothing yet - how can thy be judged?
This is the key thing. Boris has lost a series of small battles but has a great chance to win the war. The remainers are enjoying humiliating Boris but they could soon face total defeat. If Boris wins any sort of majority, even a small one, there will be nothing to stop him from implementing Brexit. After 5 years we will have signed the trade deals and business will have moved on and there will be no way back.
Jo not letting Boris know in advance might possibly drive a little bit more sympathy Boris way, it seems a nasty way to do it, unnecessarily so, and questions why jo would have accepted a job a few weeks ago. Rumour is he was unhappy about the purge but I'm not sure knifing your brother in the front is the right way to deal with it.
Cummings is pursuing the only agenda to win the next general election ie deliver Brexit at all costs and end austerity
So you have a CINO government. What's the point of an anti-business spend-thrift Tory government? Might as well vote for Corbyn and get the Real Thing.
Or TBP and get a proper brexit.
Or vote LD rather than Labour and get a proper Remain
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
Boris asked for an election last night and last - I really don't think he can ask for another one a week after his previous request.
As soon as Parliament is prorogued the opposition can start asking for an election knowing that one cannot be called until about October 22nd due to the Queen's speech debate.
And when the election is called it will be after 5+ weeks of people all calling for an election with Boris unable to respond with one.
LDs now up to 16 MPs with Berger's defection, they now have double the number of MPs they had in 2015
Luciana Berger is a real talent. I think the Lib Dems could win the next election.
IE largest party? On what basis do you make that comment?
The problen is the Remain side are split and Labour cannot unite them because the leadership are such terrible people. If the Lib Dems get enough of a boost to surpass Corbyn in the polls, there could be a flood of voters to them.
This "can't be trusted" line on Johnson has the potential to stick. It seems to have suddenly surfaced as the no 1 Labour attack line - whether as an edict from Labour HQ or (more likely) other MPs following Jess Phillips' lead.
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
I am not sure that "the dog ate my homework" will wash - Boris promised to be out on 31 October, no ifs no buts and no general election. Either he was lying or he promised something he knew he could not deliver.
Yes, you might have thought that after Cameron, and May, Boris would have been careful not to offer something he could not be sure of delivering.
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
Boris asked for an election last night and last - I really don't think he can ask for another one a week after his previous request.
As soon as Parliament is prorogued the opposition can start asking for an election knowing that one cannot be called until about October 22nd due to the Queen's speech debate.
And when the election is called it will be after 5+ weeks of people all calling for an election with Boris unable to respond with one.
My head's spinning a bit. Can someone remind what the point of proroguing was in the first place?
LDs now up to 16 MPs with Berger's defection, they now have double the number of MPs they had in 2015
Luciana Berger is a real talent. I think the Lib Dems could win the next election.
The election after next maybe, if they overtake or get close to overtaking Labour this time which polls suggest they could the LDs then become the main centre left alternative to the Tories leaving Labour with just the hard left, much like the Canadian Liberals or now En Marche in France are the main left liberal alternative to the right
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
Boris asked for an election last night and last - I really don't think he can ask for another one a week after his previous request.
As soon as Parliament is prorogued the opposition can start asking for an election knowing that one cannot be called until about October 22nd due to the Queen's speech debate.
And when the election is called it will be after 5+ weeks of people all calling for an election with Boris unable to respond with one.
He got a very big majority for an election last night, not enough however under FTPA, he can argue there is a clear majority for an election (289 to 58)and propose an amendment to the FTPA Monday and labour have to actively block him, showing they are playing it for party mot country
As a Brexiteer and speaking on behalf of all 4 Leavers in Chez BJO. These are my thoughts on BREXIT
Literally nobody voted for No Deal, let alone 17.4million. We'll get nowhere until fellow Brexiters take their heads out of their arses and accept this obvious fact.
A few will accept No Deal as an outcome but the No No Dealers are by far and away in the majority and there IS NO MANDATE FOR NO DEAL.
Jeez It's like trying to take a lollipop off a child getting these people with their heads in their arse to see the reality of where we are now.
When you look what people are saying in polls support for no deal is rising. I supported the WA as was as it seemed the best compromise but we are not in an era of sense and compromise. Despite what is written on here
- No deal remains the most preferred option. If the numbers were reversed and this was revoke then there would be a feasible - Support for prorogue petition has dwindled as people realise that Parliament still has the ability to do what is required, and proroguing for a short period at the time proposed is not actually that serious. - Boris has taken the difficult decisions early. He made vote on anti no deal a confidence vote and told those who supported the bill he would remove whip and he has. Whilst he no longer has a majority, May had more of a rebellion and Corbyn has nowhere near enough support. - Boris has sacrificed his majority for a simple message going into an election. .What is the simple Labour message? They are still two parties within a party with Starmer briefing one thing and Corbyn the opposite. - Despite assertions on here about how evil the current government is - they have done nothing yet - how can thy be judged?
This is the key thing. Boris has lost a series of small battles but has a great chance to win the war. The remainers are enjoying humiliating Boris but they could soon face total defeat. If Boris wins any sort of majority, even a small one, there will be nothing to stop him from implementing Brexit. After 5 years we will have signed the trade deals and business will have moved on and there will be no way back.
Johnson appeals to a block of Leave obsessives, which admittedly is a large minority. He has nothing to offer anybody else.
This "can't be trusted" line on Johnson has the potential to stick. It seems to have suddenly surfaced as the no 1 Labour attack line - whether as an edict from Labour HQ or (more likely) other MPs following Jess Phillips' lead.
It is perfect. Simple line, plenty of evidence - even his own brother doesn't trust him etc etc.
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
Boris asked for an election last night and last - I really don't think he can ask for another one a week after his previous request.
As soon as Parliament is prorogued the opposition can start asking for an election knowing that one cannot be called until about October 22nd due to the Queen's speech debate.
And when the election is called it will be after 5+ weeks of people all calling for an election with Boris unable to respond with one.
My head's spinning a bit. Can someone remind what the point of proroguing was in the first place?
To provoke a vote of no confidence so he’d get an election.
LDs now up to 16 MPs with Berger's defection, they now have double the number of MPs they had in 2015
Luciana Berger is a real talent. I think the Lib Dems could win the next election.
IE largest party? On what basis do you make that comment?
The problen is the Remain side are split and Labour cannot unite them because the leadership are such terrible people. If the Lib Dems get enough of a boost to surpass Corbyn in the polls, there could be a flood of voters to them.
I think it's very, very unlikely but...
...the LDs would represent something different in the eyes of many (in E&W) who are disillusioned with the established main parties.
This "can't be trusted" line on Johnson has the potential to stick. It seems to have suddenly surfaced as the no 1 Labour attack line - whether as an edict from Labour HQ or (more likely) other MPs following Jess Phillips' lead.
Boris character is hardly a surprise, the electorate are well aware of it. When all parties go down the route of character attacks they simply raise the issue that "theyre all like that" and damage themselves in the process.
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
Boris asked for an election last night and last - I really don't think he can ask for another one a week after his previous request.
As soon as Parliament is prorogued the opposition can start asking for an election knowing that one cannot be called until about October 22nd due to the Queen's speech debate.
And when the election is called it will be after 5+ weeks of people all calling for an election with Boris unable to respond with one.
He got a very big majority for an election last night, not enough however under FTPA, he can argue there is a clear majority for an election (289 to 58)and propose an amendment to the FTPA Monday and labour have to actively block him, showing they are playing it for party mot country
Only because most people intentionally abstained as it needed 434 votes to be carried and there wasn't 434 MPs in the house.
This "can't be trusted" line on Johnson has the potential to stick. It seems to have suddenly surfaced as the no 1 Labour attack line - whether as an edict from Labour HQ or (more likely) other MPs following Jess Phillips' lead.
Boris character is hardly a surprise, the electorate are well aware of it. When all parties go down the route of character attacks they simply raise the issue that "theyre all like that" and damage themselves in the process.
The antisemitic tropes used against Ed Miliband seemed to be pretty effective.
Anyone looking at that and thinking another referendum will solve anything is utterly mad. Particularly because if that is the result the vast majority of people on the Leave side will feel they have had a legitimate victory stolen from them. Almost 50% of your population thinking democracy has failed and that the MPs are responsible for it is a recipe for complete disaster.
How do you jump from 48% wish to leave the EU to 50% think democracy has failed.
Learn to read. I said almost 50%.
The country is split but only one side is going to have their legitimate victory taken away from them. If you think that will be anything other than a disaster then you have your head buried in the sand.
It is a hard problem with the country so polarised. I agree with you Richard that a Norway-ish type Brexit would have been the best compromise solution, but sadly I think that too (in the unlikely event of its happening) might well be seen as the theft of a "legitimate victory".
Though in its favour it might be seen as depriving both sides of 'victory'.
It is remarkable how many posters with extremely different viewpoints would tolerate a soft Brexit answer compared to the polls.
The reason is we are more engaged and have considered the possible outcomes and their consequences shifting us away from our instinctive first preferences.
To repeat the process for the country, the best chance is Rory Stewarts national convention or citizens assembly. Take away revoke, referendum and no deal. Take away politicians. Ask 250 people drawn by lot to spend 3 months clarifying what they want the relationship with the EU to be within those constraints. Get them to elect a dozen to negotiate that with the EU for another 3 months. Parliament commits in advance to pass whatever they agree.
It's not entirely a surprise, given the way in which Brexit cuts across loyalties in the major parties, and is I think more a mark of those who understand that democratic politics may require some compromise even on our strongly held beliefs.
The idea you put forward is not unattractive, but the route to it is exceedingly hard to discern.
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
I am not sure that "the dog ate my homework" will wash - Boris promised to be out on 31 October, no ifs no buts and no general election. Either he was lying or he promised something he knew he could not deliver.
Yes, you might have thought that after Cameron, and May, Boris would have been careful not to offer something he could not be sure of delivering.
The wise tory selectorate choose the leader who offers them the most sweeties.
10% Tory poll lead some disaster, the Westminster commentariat so out of touch now it is beyond a joke
May I gently remind you of Mrs. May's polling lead prior to the last election.
You surely cannot deny that the last few days have been... sub-optimal for the Prime Minister ?
Wait until the weekend polls, then we will see what a 'disaster' it has been for Boris
Haven't you been saying for months now that the Tories would do badly in the next election if we're still in the EU after Oct 31st? Do you not believe that's the case any more, or do you think this week hasn't made that outcome any more likely?
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
Boris asked for an election last night and last - I really don't think he can ask for another one a week after his previous request.
As soon as Parliament is prorogued the opposition can start asking for an election knowing that one cannot be called until about October 22nd due to the Queen's speech debate.
And when the election is called it will be after 5+ weeks of people all calling for an election with Boris unable to respond with one.
He got a very big majority for an election last night, not enough however under FTPA, he can argue there is a clear majority for an election (289 to 58)and propose an amendment to the FTPA Monday and labour have to actively block him, showing they are playing it for party mot country
Jeez that's a warped conclusion. Labour delay a chance to win an election in order to protect the country from a No Deal exit during the campaign and they are 'playing it for party not country'?!
Where are all those PBers who were only recently saying Corbyn wanted a No Deal exit so that he could cash in on the chaos?
This "can't be trusted" line on Johnson has the potential to stick. It seems to have suddenly surfaced as the no 1 Labour attack line - whether as an edict from Labour HQ or (more likely) other MPs following Jess Phillips' lead.
It is perfect. Simple line, plenty of evidence - even his own brother doesn't trust him etc etc.
And it will be repeated endlessly by the opposition parties, BXP included. "You can't trust Boris" will soon be as ubiquitous and well known as "Lock her up" or "build the wall" was to the Trump campaign. And it will be much closer to the truth than the Trump slogans.
This "can't be trusted" line on Johnson has the potential to stick. It seems to have suddenly surfaced as the no 1 Labour attack line - whether as an edict from Labour HQ or (more likely) other MPs following Jess Phillips' lead.
Boris character is hardly a surprise, the electorate are well aware of it. When all parties go down the route of character attacks they simply raise the issue that "theyre all like that" and damage themselves in the process.
Boris has past form which can be brought up that others just don't have.
Encouraging the underling you are having an affair with to have an abortion is a story that will destroy Boris's female vote.
Likewise being fired not once but twice having been caught out lying.
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
Boris asked for an election last night and last - I really don't think he can ask for another one a week after his previous request.
As soon as Parliament is prorogued the opposition can start asking for an election knowing that one cannot be called until about October 22nd due to the Queen's speech debate.
And when the election is called it will be after 5+ weeks of people all calling for an election with Boris unable to respond with one.
My head's spinning a bit. Can someone remind what the point of proroguing was in the first place?
See my posts! The point of proroguing was to avoid no deal whilst making it look like he wanted no deal. It has worked spectularly well.
This "can't be trusted" line on Johnson has the potential to stick. It seems to have suddenly surfaced as the no 1 Labour attack line - whether as an edict from Labour HQ or (more likely) other MPs following Jess Phillips' lead.
Boris character is hardly a surprise, the electorate are well aware of it. When all parties go down the route of character attacks they simply raise the issue that "theyre all like that" and damage themselves in the process.
“He’s a lying git who’ll do anything, and break any rule, to get what he wants” isn’t a problem for you if you think he wants to achieve what you want. Instead he just sounds effective. It’s the Urquhart factor.
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
Boris asked for an election last night and last - I really don't think he can ask for another one a week after his previous request.
As soon as Parliament is prorogued the opposition can start asking for an election knowing that one cannot be called until about October 22nd due to the Queen's speech debate.
And when the election is called it will be after 5+ weeks of people all calling for an election with Boris unable to respond with one.
He got a very big majority for an election last night, not enough however under FTPA, he can argue there is a clear majority for an election (289 to 58)and propose an amendment to the FTPA Monday and labour have to actively block him, showing they are playing it for party mot country
Only because most people intentionally abstained as it needed 434 votes to be carried and there wasn't 434 MPs in the house.
But they did abstain and he did get a big majority of votes for it. If they abstain they are not against nor in favour, if they move from abstain to voting no they are actively blocking. Nobody is going to buy that it's for anything other than party advantage and 'screw the country/voters'. Its simply not a tenable position to be in favour of an election and vote against one
10% Tory poll lead some disaster, the Westminster commentariat so out of touch now it is beyond a joke
May I gently remind you of Mrs. May's polling lead prior to the last election.
You surely cannot deny that the last few days have been... sub-optimal for the Prime Minister ?
Wait until the weekend polls, then we will see what a 'disaster' it has been for Boris
I think they will show an increased lead.
Still think Jezza will work his 2017 magic against the most extreme right wing Tories ever up for Election by the time the 22.00 Exit Poll is out in November GE
This "can't be trusted" line on Johnson has the potential to stick. It seems to have suddenly surfaced as the no 1 Labour attack line - whether as an edict from Labour HQ or (more likely) other MPs following Jess Phillips' lead.
Boris character is hardly a surprise, the electorate are well aware of it. When all parties go down the route of character attacks they simply raise the issue that "theyre all like that" and damage themselves in the process.
Boris has past form which can be brought up that others just don't have.
Encouraging the underling you are having an affair with to have an abortion is a story that will destroy Boris's female vote.
Likewise being fired not once but twice having been caught out lying.
Good thing Corbyn doesn't have past form on being a stupid communist...
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
I doubt there's any vote costing backlash against Labour for not agreeing a new election. There might be if they are seen as holding up Brexit progress. But there has to be an election for that to kick in. Most of denigrating Labour for not ploughing full steam ahead to an election are those that want to see them crushed. That's hardly Labour's agenda.
Jeez that's a warped conclusion. Labour turn delay a chance to win and election in order to protect the country from a No Deal exit during the campaign and they are 'playing it for party not country'?!
Where are all those PBers who were only recently saying Corbyn wanted a No Deal exit so that he could cash in on the chaos?
The anti-Corbyn cult have trained their brains to never be deterred, or even hesitate, when they're proven wrong. They just move onto the next narrative, no matter how totally contradictory it is to the one they believed a few days earlier.
Why do politicians tend to say frit instead of afraid? I dont think I have ever heard anyone other than a politician use the word, but politicians seem to prefer it to afraid/scared/frightened.
It's a joke based on the fact that Mrs Thatcher used to use it, since it's a Lincolnshire word, where she grew up.
LDs now up to 16 MPs with Berger's defection, they now have double the number of MPs they had in 2015
Luciana Berger is a real talent. I think the Lib Dems could win the next election.
IE largest party? On what basis do you make that comment?
The problen is the Remain side are split and Labour cannot unite them because the leadership are such terrible people. If the Lib Dems get enough of a boost to surpass Corbyn in the polls, there could be a flood of voters to them.
I think it's very, very unlikely but...
...the LDs would represent something different in the eyes of many (in E&W) who are disillusioned with the established main parties.
LDs now up to 16 MPs with Berger's defection, they now have double the number of MPs they had in 2015
Luciana Berger is a real talent. I think the Lib Dems could win the next election.
The election after next maybe, if they overtake or get close to overtaking Labour this time which polls suggest they could the LDs then become the main centre left alternative to the Tories leaving Labour with just the hard left, much like the Canadian Liberals or now En Marche in France are the main left liberal alternative to the right
We could be on our way back to our Tory/Con -Whig/Liberal roots with Labour turning out to be a 20th Centuary anomaly.
Then again there's been a lot of discussion about that on PB over the years but Labour always keeps going in the end.
LDs now up to 16 MPs with Berger's defection, they now have double the number of MPs they had in 2015
Luciana Berger is a real talent. I think the Lib Dems could win the next election.
IE largest party? On what basis do you make that comment?
The problen is the Remain side are split and Labour cannot unite them because the leadership are such terrible people. If the Lib Dems get enough of a boost to surpass Corbyn in the polls, there could be a flood of voters to them.
I think it's very, very unlikely but...
...the LDs would represent something different in the eyes of many (in E&W) who are disillusioned with the established main parties.
Could Swinson become our Macron?
A vote for Tory Swinson is a vote to allow Johnson through the middle
JRM announces another attempt on a GE in the HOC on Monday
Can't Bercow refuse this?
In theory he can, an election was requested this week and it should be once per a Parliamentary session.
Mind you that rule has been broken a few times so lets see what happens. I guess it comes down to what has changed and whether that change is significant enough.
Bercow if he was really cruel could call the election debate before the final reading of Benn's act.
This "can't be trusted" line on Johnson has the potential to stick. It seems to have suddenly surfaced as the no 1 Labour attack line - whether as an edict from Labour HQ or (more likely) other MPs following Jess Phillips' lead.
Boris character is hardly a surprise, the electorate are well aware of it. When all parties go down the route of character attacks they simply raise the issue that "theyre all like that" and damage themselves in the process.
That even his brother doesn't trust him will be a surprise to most, and an indication of his extreme untrustworthyness.
10% Tory poll lead some disaster, the Westminster commentariat so out of touch now it is beyond a joke
May I gently remind you of Mrs. May's polling lead prior to the last election.
You surely cannot deny that the last few days have been... sub-optimal for the Prime Minister ?
Wait until the weekend polls, then we will see what a 'disaster' it has been for Boris
I think they will show an increased lead.
Still think Jezza will work his 2017 magic against the most extreme right wing Tories ever up for Election by the time the 22.00 Exit Poll is out in November GE
In practical terms what do you consider working his magic?
1. Labour majority? 2. Biggest party? 3. Can form minority govt if others agree? 4. Can block no deal?
There seems to be a bit of a move in Labour to want a GE after 31 October.
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
Boris asked for an election last night and last - I really don't think he can ask for another one a week after his previous request.
As soon as Parliament is prorogued the opposition can start asking for an election knowing that one cannot be called until about October 22nd due to the Queen's speech debate.
And when the election is called it will be after 5+ weeks of people all calling for an election with Boris unable to respond with one.
My head's spinning a bit. Can someone remind what the point of proroguing was in the first place?
I think straightforwardly to stop debate that could expose Tory splits.
LDs now up to 16 MPs with Berger's defection, they now have double the number of MPs they had in 2015
Luciana Berger is a real talent. I think the Lib Dems could win the next election.
The election after next maybe, if they overtake or get close to overtaking Labour this time which polls suggest they could the LDs then become the main centre left alternative to the Tories leaving Labour with just the hard left, much like the Canadian Liberals or now En Marche in France are the main left liberal alternative to the right
We could be on our way back to our Tory/Con -Whig/Liberal roots with Labour turning out to be a 20th Centuary anomaly.
Then again there's been a lot of discussion about that on PB over the years but Labour always keeps going in the end.
Labour will still exist much as the Socialists and Melenchon do in France or the more left-wing New Democrats do in Canada but generally they would be third with the LDs and Tories fighting for first
Comments
Maybe Boris resigning would help as well
The polls are very important as anything that detects a loss of support for him and a rise in Corbyn could see a cabinet revolt led by Michael Gove
Smith gone I thinkMisread odds movement !When you look what people are saying in polls support for no deal is rising. I supported the WA as was as it seemed the best compromise but we are not in an era of sense and compromise. Despite what is written on here
- No deal remains the most preferred option. If the numbers were reversed and this was revoke then there would be a feasible
- Support for prorogue petition has dwindled as people realise that Parliament still has the ability to do what is required, and proroguing for a short period at the time proposed is not actually that serious.
- Boris has taken the difficult decisions early. He made vote on anti no deal a confidence vote and told those who supported the bill he would remove whip and he has. Whilst he no longer has a majority, May had more of a rebellion and Corbyn has nowhere near enough support.
- Boris has sacrificed his majority for a simple message going into an election. .What is the simple Labour message? They are still two parties within a party with Starmer briefing one thing and Corbyn the opposite.
- Despite assertions on here about how evil the current government is - they have done nothing yet - how can thy be judged?
I think this is them pushing it a little bit too far. The delay for the passage of the Brexit Bill at least has the vague sense of arguability that they’re making sure Boris doesn’t push the GE date beyond Brexit. Any further delay is just obvious naked political advantage I don’t suspect it will go down very well. Besides, if it forces Boris to reluctantly ask for an extension he can say “look at what parliament made me do, I wanted an election.”
All we need is the gates of Babylon too.
Now they are a tax cutting, easing off on austerity pro Brexit Party as opposed to the ' No magic money tree', dementia tax May while Corbyn still promising to deliver Brexit in 2017 while now refusing to deliver.
In the battle of the populists Boris will beat Corbyn now Corbyn has sided with the establishment to block Brexit
Brutal.
Other statements of fact also exist to show the fact.
If no GE is called before prorogation then Boris gets to spend two weeks using the bully pulpit, outside of any electoral balance rules, to ram home his message without a parliament to challenge him. I also still think there are ways round that law, if the Government is clever and ruthless.
To paraphrase Corbyn, I don’t think remainers will be smiling in October.
If he wanted prorogation to deliver no deal it would have been a month later.
If he thought that was too controversial it would have been no prorogation.
The dates he chose can only have been to signal to his followers how committed he is to no deal, whilst at the same time making no deal on Oct 31 extremely unlikely.
They achieved nothing to help with no deal, and plenty that blocked it.
Is there some residual conservative DNA is Boris' body?
You surely cannot deny that the last few days have been... sub-optimal for the Prime Minister ?
As soon as Parliament is prorogued the opposition can start asking for an election knowing that one cannot be called until about October 22nd due to the Queen's speech debate.
And when the election is called it will be after 5+ weeks of people all calling for an election with Boris unable to respond with one.
"Even Boris Johnson’s own brother doesn’t trust him"
...the LDs would represent something different in the eyes of many (in E&W) who are disillusioned with the established main parties.
Could Swinson become our Macron?
The idea you put forward is not unattractive, but the route to it is exceedingly hard to discern.
Where are all those PBers who were only recently saying Corbyn wanted a No Deal exit so that he could cash in on the chaos?
Encouraging the underling you are having an affair with to have an abortion is a story that will destroy Boris's female vote.
Likewise being fired not once but twice having been caught out lying.
“He’s a lying git who’ll do anything, and break any rule, to get what he wants” isn’t a problem for you if you think he wants to achieve what you want. Instead he just sounds effective. It’s the Urquhart factor.
Still think Jezza will work his 2017 magic against the most extreme right wing Tories ever up for Election by the time the 22.00 Exit Poll is out in November GE
Then again there's been a lot of discussion about that on PB over the years but Labour always keeps going in the end.
Mind you that rule has been broken a few times so lets see what happens. I guess it comes down to what has changed and whether that change is significant enough.
Bercow if he was really cruel could call the election debate before the final reading of Benn's act.
https://twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/1169577237110284288?s=20
1. Labour majority?
2. Biggest party?
3. Can form minority govt if others agree?
4. Can block no deal?
I would expect either 3 or 4 but not 1 or 2.
Holy schmoley ! The wheels are coming off.
I know .... It didn't quite work out.