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  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    dixiedean said:

    First Boris promise broken. No sign of a radical streamlining of government departments. If every Tory MP gets a government job, they can't vote against him. Right?

    Huh!?

    We're talking about the biggest cull on record of cabinet ministers and you're saying it is giving everyone the job?

    No idea whether or which departments will be merged in future if some will but that will presumably take time to organise properly and under the circumstances might not be #1 priority for the civil service in the first 99 days.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    So anyway, Johnson's planned "information"/education campaign on No Deal. Written by impartial civil servants, or Cabinet Ministers?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    This is the Brittania Unchained Cabinet. Don't be surprised what's in their plans. It's there in book form already.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,871
    Full moonbat. This is every bit as ridiculous as what Corbyn and Momentum have done to the Labour Party, and really worse as these idiots are in power.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Cyclefree said:



    Dear me. I explained this a while back. I do not have a vote in Trudy Harrison’s constituency but my husband and daughter do. Daughter will not vote Tory under any circumstances and husband now won’t. He did before. So that’s one vote lost. I am in the process of moving so, depending on when the election is held, I will have a vote. It will not be for the Tories.

    I know and like Trudy. But her majority is ca. 2000. A No Deal Brexit will hit Cumbria hard. Whatever her good local work she cannot count on that saving her.

    Does this Cabinet look like one which gives a damn about the people of West Cumbria? Do they even know where it is or what life is like there? I doubt it.

    Yes, I remember your explanation well. You changed your tune when I pointed out what the electoral law was about second home owners voting (a major problem in parts of Wales).

    I had suggested you were a second home owner, and you said you indignantly were not. You owned a house in Hampstead and your husband owned a house in Copeland !!!!

    And you pontificate on here about the lack of straightforwardness of our political masters !!!!!!

    You may or may not be right that "A No Deal Brexit will hit Cumbria hard". You may or may not be right that this Cabinet "does not give a damn about Cumbria".

    But, I would rather hear that from the people of Cumbria. Let them speak for themselves. They don't need help from London, or even from very recently arrived imports to Cumbria.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,871
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736
    A government of all the lemmings.
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    Is the lull because of an epic game of rock/paper/scissors between JRM, McVey and Johnson Minor?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DougSeal said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    So far so good, looks like a really positive and optimistic reshuffle. Just the shake up the doctor ordered and not remotely what we would have got from Continuity May (Hunt).

    We were given a choice between more-of-the-same from Hunt or genuine change from Johnson and change was elected by 2:1 and that looks like what we're going to get.

    I'm very happy. Still only Penny Mordaunt that I think is a loss, hopefully like Gove for May she will be back before long. Other than that, cry no tears at Grayling etc being on the backbenches.

    I have never yet, despite my links to the left and my age, yet felt the need to deploy "gammon" in anger, but here we are. This is the cabinet for the gammonage. The red faced angry folk who get off on the pain of others and believe in fairytales of empire and trade. The people who would drop dead if it weren't for the ice touch of rage at the fact the world is leaving them behind in their veins. Desperate for their last hurrah and willing to destroy the future of their children and grandchildren for the last buzz of victory before the grave swallows them.
    The red faced are left sputtering in outrage outside, from the permanently red faced and angry LOTO to those sputtering in disgust that a Brexiteer is now PM three years after the public democratically voted for Brexit and we might actually mean it this time.

    All we're missing is a profanity-filled Tweet from Ian Dunt in the thread header and it will be complete.
    Two years on since the Tory Party “won” on a promise of an exit deal with the EU they have decided to spit in the face of the electorate. As per usual. Those spluttering in rage are the 50% of the population think he will be a poor/terrible prime minister and the 58% of the population who have an unfavourable view of him. This is the most negative, reactionary, backward looking, fearful, authoritarian cabinet in British history.
    The Tory manifesto was to get the best deal possible for the UK - but also repeatedly the phrase "no deal is better than a bad deal" was used. Given May's deal is a bad deal, no deal is better than that. If no better deal is available so be it, a clean break [clean Brexit] will be better. If a better deal is available lets take it.

    Negative and backward looking? Brexit is our future, this is a sunny and optimistic cabinet looking to our future not petrified and scared and clinging to our past like Nanny May.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092


    Yes. Those left redfaced and angry at the idea we might actually cut our cords with the EU three years after we voted to do so.

    Let them rant and rave from the backbenches and if they VONC their own party then lets have an election without them as candidates anymore. They have no right to veto what we voted to do years ago.

    Eh, I don't think it's really about that. Many of them (and, ahem, you, as I recall) thought that May would successfully take us out of the EU. They weren't happy but they also weren't resigning their membership and engaging in performative online anguish like we're seeing now.

    In my opinion, it's because they voted Tory (or at least found the Tories acceptable) not because of their actual underlying value of protecting and reenforcing existing hierarchies of wealth and power, but because of their sales pitch of being a steady hand on the tiller. The values haven't changed, but the sales pitch has, so from their point of view everything has suddenly, inexplicably, gone to Hell in a handbasket.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    glw said:
    Made me laugh too!

    Shipping Mogg off overseas might not be the worst idea either.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    It's actually good for Boris that Hunt did not accept a sideways/downwards move. If there is anyone who knows that the tactic of giving a rival a job to stop them plotting does not work, it is Boris.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited July 2019

    OnboardG1 said:

    So far so good, looks like a really positive and optimistic reshuffle. Just the shake up the doctor ordered and not remotely what we would have got from Continuity May (Hunt).

    I have never yet, despite my links to the left and my age, yet felt the need to deploy "gammon" in anger, but here we are. This is the cabinet for the gammonage. The red faced angry folk who get off on the pain of others and believe in fairytales of empire and trade. The people who would drop dead if it weren't for the ice touch of rage at the fact the world is leaving them behind in their veins. Desperate for their last hurrah and willing to destroy the future of their children and grandchildren for the last buzz of victory before the grave swallows them.
    The red faced are left sputtering in outrage outside, from the permanently red faced and angry LOTO to those sputtering in disgust that a Brexiteer is now PM three years after the public democratically voted for Brexit and we might actually mean it this time.

    All we're missing is a profanity-filled Tweet from Ian Dunt in the thread header and it will be complete.
    Nah, the people losing their minds today are mostly centrists. Most of those on the left already thought things were so bad that this isn't much of a change. Very similar situation with Trump in the US
    I love how those who lost the referendum are regarded as "centrists".

    Johnson is the real centrist. He is the one who won.
    Whatever, let's not quibble terminology, you know the people I mean.
    Yes. Those left redfaced and angry at the idea we might actually cut our cords with the EU three years after we voted to do so.

    Let them rant and rave from the backbenches and if they VONC their own party then lets have an election without them as candidates anymore. They have no right to veto what we voted to do years ago.
    Fixed it for you-

    “Yes. Those left redfaced and angry at the prospect of their constituents being thrown into economic chaos by no-deal Brexit two years after we voted to leave with a deal

    Let them rant and rave from the backbenches and if they VONC their own party then lets have an election without them as candidates anymore. They have every right to veto the no-deal Brexit no-one voted for in 2016 and upheld their manifesto commitment to leave with a deal made in 2017
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    edited July 2019


    Negative and backward looking? Brexit is our future, this is a sunny and optimistic cabinet looking to our future not petrified and scared and clinging to our past like Nanny May.

    Pure, reactionary, wank fantasy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    How can Jo Johnson do that? Do his previous principles mean nothing?

  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Political commentators: Theresa May should be promoting talent from the Tory backbenches into Cabinet so we can see what they can do. Keeping with the old guard is damaging the future of the party.

    Also political commentators: What on earth is Boris Johnson doing, firing all the failed existing cabinet ministers and promoting people we've never heard of? He's lost the plot and is damaging the party in the process.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    dixiedean said:

    First Boris promise broken. No sign of a radical streamlining of government departments. If every Tory MP gets a government job, they can't vote against him. Right?

    Huh!?

    We're talking about the biggest cull on record of cabinet ministers and you're saying it is giving everyone the job?

    No idea whether or which departments will be merged in future if some will but that will presumably take time to organise properly and under the circumstances might not be #1 priority for the civil service in the first 99 days.
    I was being somewhat flippant as should have been clear. Nonetheless, smaller government does not seem to be priority #1. That seems to be jobs for my mates, regardless of past incompetence or mendacity.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Endillion said:

    Political commentators: Theresa May should be promoting talent from the Tory backbenches into Cabinet so we can see what they can do. Keeping with the old guard is damaging the future of the party.

    Also political commentators: What on earth is Boris Johnson doing, firing all the failed existing cabinet ministers and promoting people we've never heard of? He's lost the plot and is damaging the party in the process.

    We've heard of all of them and they're terrible.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited July 2019


    Yes. Those left redfaced and angry at the idea we might actually cut our cords with the EU three years after we voted to do so.

    Let them rant and rave from the backbenches and if they VONC their own party then lets have an election without them as candidates anymore. They have no right to veto what we voted to do years ago.

    Eh, I don't think it's really about that. Many of them (and, ahem, you, as I recall) thought that May would successfully take us out of the EU. They weren't happy but they also weren't resigning their membership and engaging in performative online anguish like we're seeing now.

    In my opinion, it's because they voted Tory (or at least found the Tories acceptable) not because of their actual underlying value of protecting and reenforcing existing hierarchies of wealth and power, but because of their sales pitch of being a steady hand on the tiller. The values haven't changed, but the sales pitch has, so from their point of view everything has suddenly, inexplicably, gone to Hell in a handbasket.
    I oppposed May from the offset. My views on May is like @Richard_Nabavi on Boris. I despised May before she was elected and cancelled my membership after she was. She is a nasty, authoritarian, xenophobic piece of work that actually used "libertarian" as an insult in one speech!

    Good riddance to her! I can't stand the woman and no I never backed her. I was a big fan of Cameron, voted for him in the membership election and loved going to Party Conference when he was in charge but her speech to Conference was the most vile and xenophobic nasty rant I have ever had the mispleasure to sit in. Felt like I'd somehow been transported to a BNP Conference while she was speaking.

    I did cancel my membership rather than stay in her party. I was a member throughout all of Cameron's term [and had joined not long before in order to get a vote in that election to vote for a liberal Conservative] but I quit after she won.

    So no, I can't stand the woman and am not surprised she failed. I look forward to a more positive, libertarian Conservative Party now that she is gone.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    DougSeal said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    So far so good, looks like a really positive and optimistic reshuffle. Just the shake up the doctor ordered and not remotely what we would have got from Continuity May (Hunt).

    We were given a choice between more-of-the-same from Hunt or genuine change from Johnson and change was elected by 2:1 and that looks like what we're going to get.

    I'm very happy. Still only Penny Mordaunt that I think is a loss, hopefully like Gove for May she will be back before long. Other than that, cry no tears at Grayling etc being on the backbenches.

    I have never yet, despite my links to the left and my age, yet felt the need to deploy "gammon" in anger, but here we are. This is the cabinet for the gammonage. The red faced angry folk who get off on the pain of others and believe in fairytales of empire and trade. The people who would drop dead if it weren't for the ice touch of rage at the fact the world is leaving them behind in their veins. Desperate for their last hurrah and willing to destroy the future of their children and grandchildren for the last buzz of victory before the grave swallows them.
    The red faced are left sputtering in outrage outside, from the permanently red faced and angry LOTO to those sputtering in disgust that a Brexiteer is now PM three years after the public democratically voted for Brexit and we might actually mean it this time.

    All we're missing is a profanity-filled Tweet from Ian Dunt in the thread header and it will be complete.
    Two years on since the Tory Party “won” on a promise of an exit deal with the EU they have decided to spit in the face of the electorate. As per usual. Those spluttering in rage are the 50% of the population think he will be a poor/terrible prime minister and the 58% of the population who have an unfavourable view of him. This is the most negative, reactionary, backward looking, fearful, authoritarian cabinet in British history.
    Negative and backward looking? Brexit is our future, this is a sunny and optimistic cabinet looking to our future not petrified and scared and clinging to our past like Nanny May.
    Boris voted for her plan. However reluctantly, he clearly did not agree it was not worth having as your implication of her time in office suggests.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    kle4 said:

    How can Jo Johnson do that? Do his previous principles mean nothing?

    He is a Johnson after all (exceptions being the sister who seems sane and a little principled).
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Endillion said:

    Political commentators: Theresa May should be promoting talent from the Tory backbenches into Cabinet so we can see what they can do. Keeping with the old guard is damaging the future of the party.

    Also political commentators: What on earth is Boris Johnson doing, firing all the failed existing cabinet ministers and promoting people we've never heard of? He's lost the plot and is damaging the party in the process.

    Doesn't really work, though, does it? Because the problems are people we know all too much about.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736
    On Betfair, the implied probability of Brexit by the end of the year has now shot up to nearly 50%. But the probability of No Deal by the end of the year is pretty much unchanged at under 30%.

    Does that make sense?
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    So Jo Johnson, who resigned from the May Govt so that he could back a referendum, has now joined the Government with a pledge of backing leaving on October 31st under all circumstances. Obviously.

    What's Rachel Johnson's view these days? Has she done a straight switch from CHUK to BXP?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,657
    kle4 said:

    How can Jo Johnson do that? Do his previous principles mean nothing?

    I suppose he realizes that No Deal is now an utter certainty. If you can’t beat ‘em join ‘em and all that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Scott_P said:
    Britain Trump.

    Have you not yet learned the futility of believing anything that Johnson says ?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    So far so good, looks like a really positive and optimistic reshuffle. Just the shake up the doctor ordered and not remotely what we would have got from Continuity May (Hunt).

    We were given a choice between more-of-the-same from Hunt or genuine change from Johnson and change was elected by 2:1 and that looks like what we're going to get.

    I'm very happy. Still only Penny Mordaunt that I think is a loss, hopefully like Gove for May she will be back before long. Other than that, cry no tears at Grayling etc being on the backbenches.

    I have never yet, despite my links to the left and my age, yet felt the need to deploy "gammon" in anger, but here we are. This is the cabinet for the gammonage. The red faced angry folk who get off on the pain of others and believe in fairytales of empire and trade. The people who would drop dead if it weren't for the ice touch of rage at the fact the world is leaving them behind in their veins. Desperate for their last hurrah and willing to destroy the future of their children and grandchildren for the last buzz of victory before the grave swallows them.
    The red faced are left sputtering in outrage outside, from the permanently red faced and angry LOTO to those sputtering in disgust that a Brexiteer is now PM three years after the public democratically voted for Brexit and we might actually mean it this time.

    All we're missing is a profanity-filled Tweet from Ian Dunt in the thread header and it will be complete.
    Two years on since the Tory Party “won” on a promise of an exit deal with the EU they have decided to spit in the face of the electorate. As per usual. Those spluttering in rage are the 50% of the population think he will be a poor/terrible prime minister and the 58% of the population who have an unfavourable view of him. This is the most negative, reactionary, backward looking, fearful, authoritarian cabinet in British history.
    Negative and backward looking? Brexit is our future, this is a sunny and optimistic cabinet looking to our future not petrified and scared and clinging to our past like Nanny May.
    Boris voted for her plan. However reluctantly, he clearly did not agree it was not worth having as your implication of her time in office suggests.
    I disagreed with him when he did that. I have been consistent here.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,354
    edited July 2019
    Chris said:

    On Betfair, the implied probability of Brexit by the end of the year has now shot up to nearly 50%. But the probability of No Deal by the end of the year is pretty much unchanged at under 30%.

    Does that make sense?

    Money going on the EU folding somewhat..... Enough to give Boris a deal anyway.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    kle4 said:

    How can Jo Johnson do that? Do his previous principles mean nothing?

    Jo Johnson comes out even worse than Amber Rudd.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    OnboardG1 said:

    Endillion said:

    Political commentators: Theresa May should be promoting talent from the Tory backbenches into Cabinet so we can see what they can do. Keeping with the old guard is damaging the future of the party.

    Also political commentators: What on earth is Boris Johnson doing, firing all the failed existing cabinet ministers and promoting people we've never heard of? He's lost the plot and is damaging the party in the process.

    We've heard of all of them and they're terrible.
    Alok Sharma and Robert Buckland. Go.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092


    I oppposed May from the offset. My views on May is like @Richard_Nabavi on Boris. I despised May before she was elected and cancelled my membership after she was. She is a nasty, authoritarian, xenophobic piece of work that actually used "libertarian" as an insult in one speech!

    Good riddance to her! I can't stand the woman and no I never backed her. I was a big fan of Cameron, voted for him in the membership election and loved going to Party Conference when he was in charge but her speech to Conference was the most vile and xenophobic nasty rant I have ever had the mispleasure to sit in. Felt like I'd somehow been transported to a BNP Conference while she was speaking.

    I did cancel my membership rather than stay in her party. I was a member throughout all of Cameron's term [and had joined not long before in order to get a vote in that election to vote for a liberal Conservative] but I quit after she won.

    So no, I can't stand the woman and am not surprised she failed. I look forward to a more positive, libertarian Conservative Party now that she is gone.

    Similarly from my perspective I had to endure months of people thinking May was going to get the EU to remove the backstop when it was extremely clear she wasn't. I don't see why that belief was any less farfetched than the idea that Boris will succeed at it now.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    murali_s said:

    kle4 said:

    How can Jo Johnson do that? Do his previous principles mean nothing?

    He is a Johnson after all (exceptions being the sister who seems sane and a little principled).
    Rather incredibly, he is married to Amelia Gentleman (the Guardian journalist who exposed the Windrush scandal).

    Politics at the top really does seem to be a celebrity game, the slap and tickle of famous & wealthy names rubbing together, whether nominally left or right.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    edited July 2019
    Endillion said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Endillion said:

    Political commentators: Theresa May should be promoting talent from the Tory backbenches into Cabinet so we can see what they can do. Keeping with the old guard is damaging the future of the party.

    Also political commentators: What on earth is Boris Johnson doing, firing all the failed existing cabinet ministers and promoting people we've never heard of? He's lost the plot and is damaging the party in the process.

    We've heard of all of them and they're terrible.
    Alok Sharma and Robert Buckland. Go.
    Buckland was a barrister and a minister who oversaw the shitstorm of our prisons. You've got me on Alok Sharma. Well done.

    EDIT: He was solicitor general in my fact checking. For some reason Attorney General came to mind but I knew that was Geoffrey Cox.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658


    Yes. Those left redfaced and angry at the idea we might actually cut our cords with the EU three years after we voted to do so.

    Let them rant and rave from the backbenches and if they VONC their own party then lets have an election without them as candidates anymore. They have no right to veto what we voted to do years ago.

    Eh, I don't think it's really about that. Many of them (and, ahem, you, as I recall) thought that May would successfully take us out of the EU. They weren't happy but they also weren't resigning their membership and engaging in performative online anguish like we're seeing now.

    In my opinion, it's because they voted Tory (or at least found the Tories acceptable) not because of their actual underlying value of protecting and reenforcing existing hierarchies of wealth and power, but because of their sales pitch of being a steady hand on the tiller. The values haven't changed, but the sales pitch has, so from their point of view everything has suddenly, inexplicably, gone to Hell in a handbasket.
    I oppposed May from the offset. My views on May is like @Richard_Nabavi on Boris. I despised May before she was elected and cancelled my membership after she was. She is a nasty, authoritarian, xenophobic piece of work that actually used "libertarian" as an insult in one speech!

    Good riddance to her! I can't stand the woman and no I never backed her. I was a big fan of Cameron, voted for him in the membership election and loved going to Party Conference when he was in charge but her speech to Conference was the most vile and xenophobic nasty rant I have ever had the mispleasure to sit in. Felt like I'd somehow been transported to a BNP Conference while she was speaking.

    I did cancel my membership rather than stay in her party. I was a member throughout all of Cameron's term [and had joined not long before in order to get a vote in that election to vote for a liberal Conservative] but I quit after she won.

    So no, I can't stand the woman and am not surprised she failed. I look forward to a more positive, libertarian Conservative Party now that she is gone.
    But just to be clear. You're a big fan of Priti Patel?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Chris said:

    On Betfair, the implied probability of Brexit by the end of the year has now shot up to nearly 50%. But the probability of No Deal by the end of the year is pretty much unchanged at under 30%.

    Does that make sense?

    Money going on the EU folding somewhat..... Enough to give Boris a deal anyway.
    Gee the smart money is that being firmer with the EU is what is needed to see the EU budge. Who could have seen that coming!?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    kle4 said:

    How can Jo Johnson do that? Do his previous principles mean nothing?

    Jo Johnson comes out even worse than Amber Rudd.
    Remember, these people are Tories. What do you expect?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067

    kle4 said:

    How can Jo Johnson do that? Do his previous principles mean nothing?

    Jo Johnson comes out even worse than Amber Rudd.
    Remember, these people are Tories. What do you expect?
    +1

    Haha - so true...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Daily chart
    Boris Johnson’s approval ratings are surprisingly high
    But the new prime minister faces a struggle to revive the Conservative Party"

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/07/23/boris-johnsons-approval-ratings-are-surprisingly-high
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    Is the lull because of an epic game of rock/paper/scissors between JRM, McVey and Johnson Minor?

    Johnson's forgotten that Chief Sec Treasury isn't a Cabinet job, and he's run out of posts.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Chris said:

    On Betfair, the implied probability of Brexit by the end of the year has now shot up to nearly 50%. But the probability of No Deal by the end of the year is pretty much unchanged at under 30%.

    Does that make sense?

    Only if you buy Johnny Foreigner quaking in their boots at this show of British steel. There are enough with more money than sense to account for it.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736
    Scott_P said:
    Unfair. Boris Johnson has more children than Sajid Javid (according to a court ruling in 2013).
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    Scott_P said:
    TO be fair, he has more children than the Saj.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    OnboardG1 said:

    alex. said:



    This Cabinet if it understands anything, understands the problems of London, and the problems of the Southern Tory shires. Places where they either can’t win, or can’t lose. They’re obviously banking on huge swathes of Brexit favouring seats, but these aren’t areas they really understand at all.

    The particular bit of the UK they really don't understand is Scotland. They're in deep, deep trouble up here. So are Labour of course but that ship has long sailed (and I accepted my fate in the bilges).
    Do you see the Scons going sub-20% at the next UK GE?

    What about at the next Holyrood GE?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    Cyclefree said:



    Dear me. I explained this a while back. I do not have a vote in Trudy Harrison’s constituency but my husband and daughter do. Daughter will not vote Tory under any circumstances and husband now won’t. He did before. So that’s one vote lost. I am in the process of moving so, depending on when the election is held, I will have a vote. It will not be for the Tories.

    I know and like Trudy. But her majority is ca. 2000. A No Deal Brexit will hit Cumbria hard. Whatever her good local work she cannot count on that saving her.

    Does this Cabinet look like one which gives a damn about the people of West Cumbria? Do they even know where it is or what life is like there? I doubt it.

    Yes, I remember your explanation well. You changed your tune when I pointed out what the electoral law was about second home owners voting (a major problem in parts of Wales).

    I had suggested you were a second home owner, and you said you indignantly were not. You owned a house in Hampstead and your husband owned a house in Copeland !!!!

    And you pontificate on here about the lack of straightforwardness of our political masters !!!!!!

    You may or may not be right that "A No Deal Brexit will hit Cumbria hard". You may or may not be right that this Cabinet "does not give a damn about Cumbria".

    But, I would rather hear that from the people of Cumbria. Let them speak for themselves. They don't need help from London, or even from very recently arrived imports to Cumbria.
    Yeah! Send her back.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    murali_s said:

    kle4 said:

    How can Jo Johnson do that? Do his previous principles mean nothing?

    He is a Johnson after all (exceptions being the sister who seems sane and a little principled).
    DIdn't she stand for a party yet during the campaign she was standing in basically say that was the wrong thing to do. Not sure that's very principled.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    Have we had transport yet?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,657

    Chris said:

    On Betfair, the implied probability of Brexit by the end of the year has now shot up to nearly 50%. But the probability of No Deal by the end of the year is pretty much unchanged at under 30%.

    Does that make sense?

    Money going on the EU folding somewhat..... Enough to give Boris a deal anyway.
    Gee the smart money is that being firmer with the EU is what is needed to see the EU budge. Who could have seen that coming!?
    Mr Barnier has said tonight that he still hopes to ratify Theresa’s WA.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    Chris said:

    On Betfair, the implied probability of Brexit by the end of the year has now shot up to nearly 50%. But the probability of No Deal by the end of the year is pretty much unchanged at under 30%.

    Does that make sense?

    Money going on the EU folding somewhat..... Enough to give Boris a deal anyway.
    Gee the smart money is that being firmer with the EU is what is needed to see the EU budge. Who could have seen that coming!?
    When it comes to betting how do you distinguish the smart money from just "money"?
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    GIN1138 said:

    Have we had transport yet?

    Yes. He managed to find a downgrade from Grayling.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    GIN1138 said:

    Have we had transport yet?

    Yes, Grant Shapps!
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Endillion said:

    Political commentators: Theresa May should be promoting talent from the Tory backbenches into Cabinet so we can see what they can do. Keeping with the old guard is damaging the future of the party.

    Also political commentators: What on earth is Boris Johnson doing, firing all the failed existing cabinet ministers and promoting people we've never heard of? He's lost the plot and is damaging the party in the process.

    Doesn't really work, though, does it? Because the problems are people we know all too much about.
    He's being criticised for the scale of the cull. I'm not defending the appointments of Patel and Raab, but it's at least clear what he's trying to do there from a political standpoint. Doesn't seem unreasonable to try some fresh faces outside of the great offices of state on top of that, and the only way to clear space is to sack people. Omelette, eggs, etc.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    alex. said:


    When it comes to betting how do you distinguish the smart money from just "money"?

    You don't, unless you're a bookmaker.

  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    OnboardG1 said:

    Endillion said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Endillion said:

    Political commentators: Theresa May should be promoting talent from the Tory backbenches into Cabinet so we can see what they can do. Keeping with the old guard is damaging the future of the party.

    Also political commentators: What on earth is Boris Johnson doing, firing all the failed existing cabinet ministers and promoting people we've never heard of? He's lost the plot and is damaging the party in the process.

    We've heard of all of them and they're terrible.
    Alok Sharma and Robert Buckland. Go.
    Buckland was a barrister and a minister who oversaw the shitstorm of our prisons. You've got me on Alok Sharma. Well done.

    EDIT: He was solicitor general in my fact checking. For some reason Attorney General came to mind but I knew that was Geoffrey Cox.
    I had never heard of Alok Sharma. He sounds more like a character from Star Trek.. a Vulcan possibly?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736
    GIN1138 said:

    Have we had transport yet?

    Have we had Lord President of the Council yet?

    That might be rather a nice title for Jacob Rees-Mogg, forsooth.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    edited July 2019

    Did they have to sign in blood or just ink? ;)
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    alex. said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Have we had transport yet?

    Yes. He managed to find a downgrade from Grayling.
    I think we transport geeks will be looking at the Grayling era with misty-eyed nostalgia before too long...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    Chris said:

    On Betfair, the implied probability of Brexit by the end of the year has now shot up to nearly 50%. But the probability of No Deal by the end of the year is pretty much unchanged at under 30%.

    Does that make sense?

    Money going on the EU folding somewhat..... Enough to give Boris a deal anyway.
    Gee the smart money is that being firmer with the EU is what is needed to see the EU budge. Who could have seen that coming!?
    Mr Barnier has said tonight that he still hopes to ratify Theresa’s WA.
    He said that when Johnson won yesterday
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    Chris said:

    On Betfair, the implied probability of Brexit by the end of the year has now shot up to nearly 50%. But the probability of No Deal by the end of the year is pretty much unchanged at under 30%.

    Does that make sense?

    Money going on the EU folding somewhat..... Enough to give Boris a deal anyway.
    Gee the smart money is that being firmer with the EU is what is needed to see the EU budge. Who could have seen that coming!?
    Mr Barnier has said tonight that he still hopes to ratify Theresa’s WA.
    Calming down a little, perhaps Johnson has enough of the ERG roped in his ministry to allow a minor edited WA to slip through?

    Obviously Steve Baker and Bill Cash will go down raging, but how many others when Patel and IDS are ringing them up and imploring them?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,270

    OnboardG1 said:

    Shagger has to make Jacob sexy pants Rees-Mogg Leader of the House. Because giggles.

    I can't think of a job suitable for McVile that isn't being fired into the centre of the sun

    The Sun is too close. There's a nice black hole in the centre of the Galaxy that could use more bile and hatred.
    Mogg vs Bercow will be interesting. It will be battle of the experts on arcane procedure.
    No it wouldn't. Bercow cares nothing for procedure. As far as he is concerned the only thing that matters is what he wants. He has already shown his utter contempt for both procedure and precedent.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    GIN1138 said:

    Have we had transport yet?

    Shapps
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Dear me. I explained this a while back. I do not have a vote in Trudy Harrison’s constituency but my husband and daughter do. Daughter will not vote Tory under any circumstances and husband now won’t. He did before. So that’s one vote lost. I am in the process of moving so, depending on when the election is held, I will have a vote. It will not be for the Tories.

    I know and like Trudy. But her majority is ca. 2000. A No Deal Brexit will hit Cumbria hard. Whatever her good local work she cannot count on that saving her.

    Does this Cabinet look like one which gives a damn about the people of West Cumbria? Do they even know where it is or what life is like there? I doubt it.

    Yes, I remember your explanation well. You changed your tune when I pointed out what the electoral law was about second home owners voting (a major problem in parts of Wales).

    I had suggested you were a second home owner, and you said you indignantly were not. You owned a house in Hampstead and your husband owned a house in Copeland !!!!

    And you pontificate on here about the lack of straightforwardness of our political masters !!!!!!

    You may or may not be right that "A No Deal Brexit will hit Cumbria hard". You may or may not be right that this Cabinet "does not give a damn about Cumbria".

    But, I would rather hear that from the people of Cumbria. Let them speak for themselves. They don't need help from London, or even from very recently arrived imports to Cumbria.
    Yeah! Send her back.
    The point is Cyclefree hasn't left Hampstead yet.

    So, she can't really speak for Cumbria.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    rpjs said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Have we had transport yet?

    Yes, Grant Shapps!
    Ah, I saw someone mentioning Michael Green earlier... :D
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,889
    alex. said:

    Chris said:

    On Betfair, the implied probability of Brexit by the end of the year has now shot up to nearly 50%. But the probability of No Deal by the end of the year is pretty much unchanged at under 30%.

    Does that make sense?

    Money going on the EU folding somewhat..... Enough to give Boris a deal anyway.
    Gee the smart money is that being firmer with the EU is what is needed to see the EU budge. Who could have seen that coming!?
    When it comes to betting how do you distinguish the smart money from just "money"?
    Your accounts start getting locked, limited and banned.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Chris said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Have we had transport yet?

    Have we had Lord President of the Council yet?

    That might be rather a nice title for Jacob Rees-Mogg, forsooth.
    Well Moggsy's been tipped for Leader of the House and that usually goes with Lord President or Lord Privy Seal.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Can anyone logically explain why Michael Gove has accepted a demotion from the Cabinet?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    alex. said:


    Yes. Those left redfaced and angry at the idea we might actually cut our cords with the EU three years after we voted to do so.

    Let them rant and rave from the backbenches and if they VONC their own party then lets have an election without them as candidates anymore. They have no right to veto what we voted to do years ago.

    Eh, I don't think it's really about that. Many of them (and, ahem, you, as I recall) thought that May would successfully take us out of the EU. They weren't happy but they also weren't resigning their membership and engaging in performative online anguish like we're seeing now.

    In my opinion, it's because they voted Tory (or at least found the Tories acceptable) not because of their actual underlying value of protecting and reenforcing existing hierarchies of wealth and power, but because of their sales pitch of being a steady hand on the tiller. The values haven't changed, but the sales pitch has, so from their point of view everything has suddenly, inexplicably, gone to Hell in a handbasket.
    I oppposed May from the offset. My views on May is like @Richard_Nabavi on Boris. I despised May before she was elected and cancelled my membership after she was. She is a nasty, authoritarian, xenophobic piece of work that actually used "libertarian" as an insult in one speech!

    Good riddance to her! I can't stand the woman and no I never backed her. I was a big fan of Cameron, voted for him in the membership election and loved going to Party Conference when he was in charge but her speech to Conference was the most vile and xenophobic nasty rant I have ever had the mispleasure to sit in. Felt like I'd somehow been transported to a BNP Conference while she was speaking.

    I did cancel my membership rather than stay in her party. I was a member throughout all of Cameron's term [and had joined not long before in order to get a vote in that election to vote for a liberal Conservative] but I quit after she won.

    So no, I can't stand the woman and am not surprised she failed. I look forward to a more positive, libertarian Conservative Party now that she is gone.
    But just to be clear. You're a big fan of Priti Patel?
    I disagree with her on the death penalty, but I've not heard anything xenophobic from her like Theresa "Go Home" May.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Is this a reference to some us on PB?

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1154137690213879816
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    OnboardG1 said:

    Endillion said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Endillion said:

    Political commentators: Theresa May should be promoting talent from the Tory backbenches into Cabinet so we can see what they can do. Keeping with the old guard is damaging the future of the party.

    Also political commentators: What on earth is Boris Johnson doing, firing all the failed existing cabinet ministers and promoting people we've never heard of? He's lost the plot and is damaging the party in the process.

    We've heard of all of them and they're terrible.
    Alok Sharma and Robert Buckland. Go.
    Buckland was a barrister and a minister who oversaw the shitstorm of our prisons. You've got me on Alok Sharma. Well done.

    EDIT: He was solicitor general in my fact checking. For some reason Attorney General came to mind but I knew that was Geoffrey Cox.
    Buckland was prisons minister for 76 days, and you're blaming him for... what, exactly?

    To be fair, neither is exactly young, even by Tory MP standards.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,792
    Tabman said:

    Scott_P said:
    TO be fair, he has more children than the Saj.
    More wives, too... :)
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited July 2019
    @Philip_Thompson


    This is a cabinet that looks back at a dead empire, fearful of the world, contemptuous of our near neighbours, with hate in its heart for the world. Brexit is the clinging to a past hoping for solace from former colonies that care nothing for us.

    This cabinet will break up the U.K. England will be surrounded on all sides by the EU, Scotland to the North, Ireland (maybe Wales) to the West, the Mainland of our continent to the South and East. We will have to pass through the EU to get ourselves and our goods anywhere by land or air. We cannot cut ourselves off from our closest relations for ever. We are embedded with them. This is a family tiff that will pass and we will come back with our tails between our legs a much smaller nation. You’ve lost - you just don’t realise it yet.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736

    OnboardG1 said:

    Endillion said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Endillion said:

    Political commentators: Theresa May should be promoting talent from the Tory backbenches into Cabinet so we can see what they can do. Keeping with the old guard is damaging the future of the party.

    Also political commentators: What on earth is Boris Johnson doing, firing all the failed existing cabinet ministers and promoting people we've never heard of? He's lost the plot and is damaging the party in the process.

    We've heard of all of them and they're terrible.
    Alok Sharma and Robert Buckland. Go.
    Buckland was a barrister and a minister who oversaw the shitstorm of our prisons. You've got me on Alok Sharma. Well done.

    EDIT: He was solicitor general in my fact checking. For some reason Attorney General came to mind but I knew that was Geoffrey Cox.
    I had never heard of Alok Sharma. He sounds more like a character from Star Trek.. a Vulcan possibly?
    You're thinking of Amok Sharma, aren't you?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Pulpstar said:

    alex. said:

    Chris said:

    On Betfair, the implied probability of Brexit by the end of the year has now shot up to nearly 50%. But the probability of No Deal by the end of the year is pretty much unchanged at under 30%.

    Does that make sense?

    Money going on the EU folding somewhat..... Enough to give Boris a deal anyway.
    Gee the smart money is that being firmer with the EU is what is needed to see the EU budge. Who could have seen that coming!?
    When it comes to betting how do you distinguish the smart money from just "money"?
    Your accounts start getting locked, limited and banned.
    Yepp. I was banned by Victor Chandler when I started winning too much; and Paddy Power limited me to stakes of about 50p.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    alex. said:

    Can anyone logically explain why Michael Gove has accepted a demotion from the Cabinet?

    Nick P told me it could potentially be an "upgrade" from DEFRA?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Dear me. I explained this a while back. I do not have a vote in Trudy Harrison’s constituency but my husband and daughter do. Daughter will not vote Tory under any circumstances and husband now won’t. He did before. So that’s one vote lost. I am in the process of moving so, depending on when the election is held, I will have a vote. It will not be for the Tories.

    I know and like Trudy. But her majority is ca. 2000. A No Deal Brexit will hit Cumbria hard. Whatever her good local work she cannot count on that saving her.

    Does this Cabinet look like one which gives a damn about the people of West Cumbria? Do they even know where it is or what life is like there? I doubt it.

    Yes, I remember your explanation well. You changed your tune when I pointed out what the electoral law was about second home owners voting (a major problem in parts of Wales).

    I had suggested you were a second home owner, and you said you indignantly were not. You owned a house in Hampstead and your husband owned a house in Copeland !!!!

    And you pontificate on here about the lack of straightforwardness of our political masters !!!!!!

    You may or may not be right that "A No Deal Brexit will hit Cumbria hard". You may or may not be right that this Cabinet "does not give a damn about Cumbria".

    But, I would rather hear that from the people of Cumbria. Let them speak for themselves. They don't need help from London, or even from very recently arrived imports to Cumbria.
    Yeah! Send her back.
    The point is Cyclefree hasn't left Hampstead yet.

    So, she can't really speak for Cumbria.
    How do all those historians of ancient Rome manage to write their books?
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,993
    Is it true that Jacob Rees-Mogg was asking if Olly Stone and Joe Root could be brought into the Cabinet, because he heard that between them, they'd managed to remove the Irish backstop earlier today?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    GIN1138 said:


    Did they have to sign in blood or just ink? ;)
    With their dicks. Or some sort of dick substitute.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    edited July 2019
    Not everyone on PB is anti-Boris M'lud! :D
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,657

    Chris said:

    On Betfair, the implied probability of Brexit by the end of the year has now shot up to nearly 50%. But the probability of No Deal by the end of the year is pretty much unchanged at under 30%.

    Does that make sense?

    Money going on the EU folding somewhat..... Enough to give Boris a deal anyway.
    Gee the smart money is that being firmer with the EU is what is needed to see the EU budge. Who could have seen that coming!?
    Mr Barnier has said tonight that he still hopes to ratify Theresa’s WA.
    Calming down a little, perhaps Johnson has enough of the ERG roped in his ministry to allow a minor edited WA to slip through?

    Obviously Steve Baker and Bill Cash will go down raging, but how many others when Patel and IDS are ringing them up and imploring them?
    I still see Boris bottling No Deal. How he does it - and how his little soldiers will undertake the mental gymnastics needed to accept it - remains to be seen, but it should be an interesting spectacle.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Endillion said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Endillion said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Endillion said:

    Political commentators: Theresa May should be promoting talent from the Tory backbenches into Cabinet so we can see what they can do. Keeping with the old guard is damaging the future of the party.

    Also political commentators: What on earth is Boris Johnson doing, firing all the failed existing cabinet ministers and promoting people we've never heard of? He's lost the plot and is damaging the party in the process.

    We've heard of all of them and they're terrible.
    Alok Sharma and Robert Buckland. Go.
    Buckland was a barrister and a minister who oversaw the shitstorm of our prisons. You've got me on Alok Sharma. Well done.

    EDIT: He was solicitor general in my fact checking. For some reason Attorney General came to mind but I knew that was Geoffrey Cox.
    Buckland was prisons minister for 76 days, and you're blaming him for... what, exactly?

    To be fair, neither is exactly young, even by Tory MP standards.
    Yeah that's fair. I remember him being on the news after some Prisons bust up and assumed he'd been there for longer. Hence why I was getting him mixed up with Geoff Cox. In my defence, I had heard of him.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    alex. said:


    Yes. Those left redfaced and angry at the idea we might actually cut our cords with the EU three years after we voted to do so.

    Let them rant and rave from the backbenches and if they VONC their own party then lets have an election without them as candidates anymore. They have no right to veto what we voted to do years ago.

    Eh, I don't think it's really about that. Many of them (and, ahem, you, as I recall) thought that May would successfully take us out of the EU. They weren't happy but they also weren't resigning their membership and engaging in performative online anguish like we're seeing now.

    In my opinion, it's because they voted Tory (or at least found the Tories acceptable) not because of their actual underlying value of protecting and reenforcing existing hierarchies of wealth and power, but because of their sales pitch of being a steady hand on the tiller. The values haven't changed, but the sales pitch has, so from their point of view everything has suddenly, inexplicably, gone to Hell in a handbasket.
    I oppposed May from the offset. My views on May is like @Richard_Nabavi on Boris. I despised May before she was elected and cancelled my membership after she was. She is a nasty, authoritarian, xenophobic piece of work that actually used "libertarian" as an insult in one speech!

    Good riddance to her! I can't stand the woman and no I never backed her. I was a big fan of Cameron, voted for him in the membership election and loved going to Party Conference when he was in charge but her speech to Conference was the most vile and xenophobic nasty rant I have ever had the mispleasure to sit in. Felt like I'd somehow been transported to a BNP Conference while she was speaking.

    I did cancel my membership rather than stay in her party. I was a member throughout all of Cameron's term [and had joined not long before in order to get a vote in that election to vote for a liberal Conservative] but I quit after she won.

    So no, I can't stand the woman and am not surprised she failed. I look forward to a more positive, libertarian Conservative Party now that she is gone.
    But just to be clear. You're a big fan of Priti Patel?
    I disagree with her on the death penalty, but I've not heard anything xenophobic from her like Theresa "Go Home" May.
    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24778/priti_patel/witham/votes

    Not much of a liberal streak evident in there.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    justin124 said:

    OllyT said:

    justin124 said:

    I take no pleasure in the present situation I would love nothing better than be able to rejoin Labour under a centre left leader and I would love to see them heading towards a GE victory. However I cannot vote for a Labour Party led by Corbyn and the 4 Ms. I doubt I am alone and the consequence is likely to be a Johnson majority on about 35% of the vote.
    That is fair enough , but you have admitted that you did not vote Labour in 2017 when 41% did. On that basis, your views are not new.!
    But as I have said before I didn't vote at all in 2017 but I know a lot of people who did vote Labour then but won't do again. I don't think we are going to have to wait long before finding out who is right.

    I have a real dilemma as I live in in Lab/Con marginal and I like our MP but can't vote for him without the Corbynistas claiming it as vote for Corbyn. Be Lib Dem for me next time and I hope that another defeat will bring Labour to its senses.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    alex. said:


    Yes. Those left redfaced and angry at the idea we might actually cut our cords with the EU three years after we voted to do so.

    Let them rant and rave from the backbenches and if they VONC their own party then lets have an election without them as candidates anymore. They have no right to veto what we voted to do years ago.

    Eh, I don't think it's really about that. Many of them (and, ahem, you, as I recall) thought that May would successfully take us out of the EU. They weren't happy but they also weren't resigning their membership and engaging in performative online anguish like we're seeing now.

    In my opinion, it's because they voted Tory (or at least found the Tories acceptable) not because of their actual underlying value of protecting and reenforcing existing hierarchies of wealth and power, but because of their sales pitch of being a steady hand on the tiller. The values haven't changed, but the sales pitch has, so from their point of view everything has suddenly, inexplicably, gone to Hell in a handbasket.
    I oppposed May from the offset. My views on May is like @Richard_Nabavi on Boris. I despised May before she was elected and cancelled my membership after she was. She is a nasty, authoritarian, xenophobic piece of work that actually used "libertarian" as an insult in one speech!

    Good riddance to her! I can't stand the woman and no I never backed her. I was a big fan of Cameron, voted for him in the membership election and loved going to Party Conference when he was in charge but her speech to Conference was the most vile and xenophobic nasty rant I have ever had the mispleasure to sit in. Felt like I'd somehow been transported to a BNP Conference while she was speaking.

    I did cancel my membership rather than stay in her party. I was a member throughout all of Cameron's term [and had joined not long before in order to get a vote in that election to vote for a liberal Conservative] but I quit after she won.

    So no, I can't stand the woman and am not surprised she failed. I look forward to a more positive, libertarian Conservative Party now that she is gone.
    But just to be clear. You're a big fan of Priti Patel?
    I disagree with her on the death penalty, but I've not heard anything xenophobic from her like Theresa "Go Home" May.
    For all my disagreements with your Brexit position, I think you're dead right on that. I don't think Patel is Xenophobic, certainly not in the way May was.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    alex. said:

    Can anyone logically explain why Michael Gove has accepted a demotion from the Cabinet?

    He is, genuinely it seems, too useful a colleague to not have in government in some capacity, but is not good with his scheming and personal relationships. Last time there was a switch he was out on his ear entirely, and it took time to work his way back in and be useful. By accepting a lesser position he can at least be of some use, and may well work his way back up to full Cabinet again in a shorter space of time, whilst still being punished for his past transgressions against the Bozziah.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Where was it that I saw the line: "Not so much a Government of all the talents as a Cabinet of half the wits"?

    That was Alastair's excellent quip in his recent "Year of Three PMs" header.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    alex. said:


    Yes. Those left redfaced and angry at the idea we might actually cut our cords with the EU three years after we voted to do so.

    Let them rant and rave from the backbenches and if they VONC their own party then lets have an election without them as candidates anymore. They have no right to veto what we voted to do years ago.

    Eh, I don't think it's really about that. Many of them (and, ahem, you, as I recall) thought that May would successfully take us out of the EU. They weren't happy but they also weren't resigning their membership and engaging in performative online anguish like we're seeing now.

    In my opinion, it's because they voted Tory (or at least found the Tories acceptable) not because of their actual underlying value of protecting and reenforcing existing hierarchies of wealth and power, but because of their sales pitch of being a steady hand on the tiller. The values haven't changed, but the sales pitch has, so from their point of view everything has suddenly, inexplicably, gone to Hell in a handbasket.
    I oppposed May from the offset. My views on May is like @Richard_Nabavi on Boris. I despised May before she was elected and cancelled my membership after she was. She is a nasty, authoritarian, xenophobic piece of work that actually used "libertarian" as an insult in one speech!

    Good riddance to her! I can't stand the woman and no I never backed her. I was a big fan of Cameron, voted for him in the membership election and loved going to Party Conference when he was in charge but her speech to Conference was the most vile and xenophobic nasty rant I have ever had the mispleasure to sit in. Felt like I'd somehow been transported to a BNP Conference while she was speaking.

    I did cancel my membership rather than stay in her party. I was a member throughout all of Cameron's term [and had joined not long before in order to get a vote in that election to vote for a liberal Conservative] but I quit after she won.

    So no, I can't stand the woman and am not surprised she failed. I look forward to a more positive, libertarian Conservative Party now that she is gone.
    But just to be clear. You're a big fan of Priti Patel?
    I disagree with her on the death penalty, but I've not heard anything xenophobic from her like Theresa "Go Home" May.
    Did not the reasoning for her support of the death penalty on that infamous QT not give you pause for thought?
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    GIN1138 said:

    alex. said:

    Can anyone logically explain why Michael Gove has accepted a demotion from the Cabinet?

    Nick P told me it could potentially be an "upgrade" from DEFRA?
    Its a consolation prize! A non job. I always wonder if it is an 'In' joke with PMs to appoint someone to that position.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    alex. said:

    Can anyone logically explain why Michael Gove has accepted a demotion from the Cabinet?

    Can only be trolling. Was a position he was expected to refuse and thus be humiliatingly returned to the backbenches.
    Now he can sow discord from inside the tent. And take over when it comes crashing down.
    That's my take.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    GIN1138 said:
    JRM is so last year, we barely hear from him anymore.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    edited July 2019
    Well, well ,well who expected this. Every wet drip centrist, managerial waste of space has been asked to leave. People that actually hold political beliefs have replaced them.

    The age of grey, boring managerial politics is over for the next 3 months at least and that is a good thing.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    Chris said:

    On Betfair, the implied probability of Brexit by the end of the year has now shot up to nearly 50%. But the probability of No Deal by the end of the year is pretty much unchanged at under 30%.

    Does that make sense?

    Money going on the EU folding somewhat..... Enough to give Boris a deal anyway.
    Gee the smart money is that being firmer with the EU is what is needed to see the EU budge. Who could have seen that coming!?
    Mr Barnier has said tonight that he still hopes to ratify Theresa’s WA.
    Calming down a little, perhaps Johnson has enough of the ERG roped in his ministry to allow a minor edited WA to slip through?

    Obviously Steve Baker and Bill Cash will go down raging, but how many others when Patel and IDS are ringing them up and imploring them?
    I still see Boris bottling No Deal. How he does it - and how his little soldiers will undertake the mental gymnastics needed to accept it - remains to be seen, but it should be an interesting spectacle.
    He has a cabinet chock full of Brexiters. It should be a doddle to get the WA through.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    alex. said:

    Chris said:

    On Betfair, the implied probability of Brexit by the end of the year has now shot up to nearly 50%. But the probability of No Deal by the end of the year is pretty much unchanged at under 30%.

    Does that make sense?

    Money going on the EU folding somewhat..... Enough to give Boris a deal anyway.
    Gee the smart money is that being firmer with the EU is what is needed to see the EU budge. Who could have seen that coming!?
    When it comes to betting how do you distinguish the smart money from just "money"?
    'The money that agrees with my desired outcome MUST be smart.'
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