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  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    geoffw said:

    Johnson's radical ruthlessness is sending a message to the electorate and also to Brussels.

    Brussels already has the measure of people like Johnson and Raab. They don’t trust them.

    They have prepared better for No Deal and will then wait to pick off what is best from Britain in the aftermath. They have the upper hand and they know it. As does Canada. And the US and all the other countries who can see that Truss and Boris will be desperate for deals.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited July 2019
    justin124 said:

    OllyT said:

    I have to say I think that Johnson has been politically very smart indeed. This Cabinet all but guarantees a big swing from BXP to the Tories. How can Farage not endorse it? With a split opposition he has to be a huge favourite to win the next election. The only spanner in the works is that what Johnson has done is so extreme that it may galvanise non-Tories to be very careful with their votes. I can see a scenario where Labour keeps most of its English seats, while the LDs pick up quite a few in the SE and SW, as well as some in Scotland. I am more confident that the LDs will do well than Labour will, but it could happen.

    Corbyn's departure is the only game changer, otherwise it's going to be Johnson win as the opposition fragments as it did in the Foot v Alliance years. The consequences of Labour members electing Corbyn become more tragic as each day passes.
    With respect, you probably had similar expectations in Spring 2017! I certainly did - and was proved wrong.
    If you believe that Corbyn is going to pull that off again good luck to you. Times have changed.

    Dissatisfaction with him amongst members has gone from 19% to 45%. The Lib Dems are rising - 4% ahead of Labour nationally according to today's poll so Labour are no longer the only anti-Tory option. Millions of remainers that voted Labour in 2017 are not going to fall for it a second time whatever Corbyn and his cabal might say on the last minute.

    FPTP is about all that is keeping Labour in the game right now, without it they would sink as they did in the Euros. Their record in recent local government by elections is not that of a party that is heading towards an overall majority.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited July 2019
    Just seen the new cabinet...Cripes! Blimey! insert random latin phrase....as our new PM might say.

    Has there been a weaker top team this century?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,871

    Just seen the new cabinet...Cripes! Blimey! insert random latin phrase....as our new PM might say.

    Has there been a weaker top team this century?

    Why restrict it to this century? It might be the worst cabinet in living memory.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,794
    IanB2 said:

    Dom Joly becomes a political party member for the first time today...

    Which one?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069
    GIN1138 said:

    Striking thing so far is the number of retreads who left for reasons of scandal or general uselessness.
    Is it because the talent pool is that empty, or is BJ the PM after people who are too compromised to argue back at him? Neither is a good look.

    Yes all the names so far (except the guy at Defense no on has ever heard of) are people who have been on the scene for years and years.

    I was expecting Cabinet promotions for quite a few of the 2015 in take but doesn't look like it's happening.

    Maybe Boris wants known names for the general election?
    Perhaps- though a campaign consisting of BorisBorisBORIS is both what the leader probably wants and their best bet, frankly.

    And whilst Patel, Williamson, Shapps(?!) et all are known, it's for the wrong reasons, surely.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153

    GIN1138 said:

    Striking thing so far is the number of retreads who left for reasons of scandal or general uselessness.
    Is it because the talent pool is that empty, or is BJ the PM after people who are too compromised to argue back at him? Neither is a good look.

    Yes all the names so far (except the guy at Defense no on has ever heard of) are people who have been on the scene for years and years.

    I was expecting Cabinet promotions for quite a few of the 2015 in take but doesn't look like it's happening.

    Maybe Boris wants known names for the general election?
    Perhaps- though a campaign consisting of BorisBorisBORIS is both what the leader probably wants and their best bet, frankly.

    And whilst Patel, Williamson, Shapps(?!) et all are known, it's for the wrong reasons, surely.
    Michael Green's back? :open_mouth:
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599

    FF43 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Interesting chart. The Tories are losing votes to the Lib Dems as quickly as they are regaining them from the Brexit Party.
    Astonishing that only 1% are going to Labour.

    Blair’s entire strategy was about capturing votes direct from the Conservatives.

    Don’t screw up, Jo.
    What is the mindset of a Tory 2017 voter switching to Labour now?

    The Tories have become a party with an incompetent leader, with aims but no realistic policies to deliver, indulges in occassional casual racism, appoints only his friends and youngsters with no experience.

    Lets switch to a party with an incompetent leader, with aims but no realistic policies to deliver, indulges in occassional casual racism, appoints only his friends and youngsters with no experience.

    I can see why it is only 1% making that move.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    OllyT said:

    justin124 said:

    OllyT said:

    I have to say I think that Johnson has been politically very smart indeed. This Cabinet all but guarantees a big swing from BXP to the Tories. How can Farage not endorse it? With a split opposition he has to be a huge favourite to win the next election. The only spanner in the works is that what Johnson has done is so extreme that it may galvanise non-Tories to be very careful with their votes. I can see a scenario where Labour keeps most of its English seats, while the LDs pick up quite a few in the SE and SW, as well as some in Scotland. I am more confident that the LDs will do well than Labour will, but it could happen.

    Corbyn's departure is the only game changer, otherwise it's going to be Johnson win as the opposition fragments as it did in the Foot v Alliance years. The consequences of Labour members electing Corbyn become more tragic as each day passes.
    With respect, you probably had similar expectations in Spring 2017! I certainly did - and was proved wrong.
    If you believe that Corbyn is going to pull that off again good luck to you. Times have changed.

    Dissatisfaction with him amongst members has gone from 19% to 45%. The Lib Dems are rising - 4% ahead of Labour nationally according to today's poll so Labour are no longer the only anti-Tory option. Millions of remainers that voted Labour in 2017 are not going to fall for it a second time whatever Corbyn and his cabal might say on the last minute.

    FPTP is about all that is keeping Labour in the game right now, without it they would sink as they did in the Euros. Their record in recent local government by elections is not that of a party that is heading towards an overall majority.
    It is a mistake to get too obsessed with Yougov - or indeed any single pollster. Most polls have Labour in first or second place with the Libdems at 15%/16%. I am not a Corbynite - and will spoil my ballot paper , albeit for unrelated reasons.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    I am very surprised and disappointed with Boris cabinet

    Not at all happy at ditching Hunt and Penny

    Also I do not see the unity he extolled in his choices

    This must be a cabinet for an Autumn GE
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,122
    On topic, I think the key to the 'election this year' punt is Boris hiring Dominic Cummings. If he's not there to oversee a campaign then I'm a Dutchman (I am not a Dutchman).

    Evens is value.

    Also, can I just say how cross I am about Priti Patel coming back into cabinet? Every other fuckup any resigning minister has made is more forgivable than running a parallel foreign policy without civil service bods in the meeting or FCO clearance.

    Further off topic, why are all the girls upset with all the boys on Love Island? I must confess to being out of the loop.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    glw said:

    Just seen the new cabinet...Cripes! Blimey! insert random latin phrase....as our new PM might say.

    Has there been a weaker top team this century?

    Why restrict it to this century? It might be the worst cabinet in living memory.
    Why restrict it to living memory? Has there ever been a cabinet whose members have such a poor track record or no experience at all.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    In view of this new cabinet why is Corbyn ducking a vonc this week

    He must know he could see huge loses to the Lib Dems and to the conservatives in leave seats
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    Grant Shapps for Grayling - not impressed
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Striking thing so far is the number of retreads who left for reasons of scandal or general uselessness.
    Is it because the talent pool is that empty, or is BJ the PM after people who are too compromised to argue back at him? Neither is a good look.

    Yes all the names so far (except the guy at Defense no on has ever heard of) are people who have been on the scene for years and years.

    I was expecting Cabinet promotions for quite a few of the 2015 in take but doesn't look like it's happening.

    Maybe Boris wants known names for the general election?
    Perhaps- though a campaign consisting of BorisBorisBORIS is both what the leader probably wants and their best bet, frankly.

    And whilst Patel, Williamson, Shapps(?!) et all are known, it's for the wrong reasons, surely.
    Michael Green's back? :open_mouth:
    Downthread, there was a Sam Coates tweet rumouring that he's got Transport.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,287

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Striking thing so far is the number of retreads who left for reasons of scandal or general uselessness.
    Is it because the talent pool is that empty, or is BJ the PM after people who are too compromised to argue back at him? Neither is a good look.

    Yes all the names so far (except the guy at Defense no on has ever heard of) are people who have been on the scene for years and years.

    I was expecting Cabinet promotions for quite a few of the 2015 in take but doesn't look like it's happening.

    Maybe Boris wants known names for the general election?
    Perhaps- though a campaign consisting of BorisBorisBORIS is both what the leader probably wants and their best bet, frankly.

    And whilst Patel, Williamson, Shapps(?!) et all are known, it's for the wrong reasons, surely.
    Michael Green's back? :open_mouth:
    Downthread, there was a Sam Coates tweet rumouring that he's got Transport.
    Now confirmed.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503
    justin124 said:

    OllyT said:



    If you believe that Corbyn is going to pull that off again good luck to you. Times have changed.

    Dissatisfaction with him amongst members has gone from 19% to 45%. The Lib Dems are rising - 4% ahead of Labour nationally according to today's poll so Labour are no longer the only anti-Tory option. Millions of remainers that voted Labour in 2017 are not going to fall for it a second time whatever Corbyn and his cabal might say on the last minute.

    FPTP is about all that is keeping Labour in the game right now, without it they would sink as they did in the Euros. Their record in recent local government by elections is not that of a party that is heading towards an overall majority.

    It is a mistake to get too obsessed with Yougov - or indeed any single pollster. Most polls have Labour in first or second place with the Libdems at 15%/16%. I am not a Corbynite - and will spoil my ballot paper , albeit for unrelated reasons.
    Especially as "today's poll" turned out to be over two weeks old.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    geoffw said:

    Johnson's radical ruthlessness is sending a message to the electorate and also to Brussels.

    It certainly is but I don't think it's the message you think it is
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    glw said:

    Just seen the new cabinet...Cripes! Blimey! insert random latin phrase....as our new PM might say.

    Has there been a weaker top team this century?

    Why restrict it to this century? It might be the worst cabinet in living memory.
    Why restrict it to living memory? Has there ever been a cabinet whose members have such a poor track record or no experience at all.
    No.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited July 2019

    In view of this new cabinet why is Corbyn ducking a vonc this week

    He must know he could see huge loses to the Lib Dems and to the conservatives in leave seats

    To be fair, Corbyn was up for an election when he was 20 points behind in the polls in 2017.

    So, I don't think poor polls will worry him. He has confidence in his campaigning ability.

    His MPs on the other hand ...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Ave_it said:

    Hello Nigel totally relaxed about it

    Boris

    Good for BREXIT good for Britain

    Hope we stop welfare too in the first budget £100bn pa saved good news

    Stop pensions? By far the largest component of welfare. Not entirely sure that will go down well.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    In view of this new cabinet why is Corbyn ducking a vonc this week

    He must know he could see huge loses to the Lib Dems and to the conservatives in leave seats

    With the exception of Yougiv the polls are implying Labour gains from the Tories - and very few seats at risk to the Libdems. Very fluid at moment though.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,490
    Given that the tens of thousands immigration target was all TM can you see Boris quietly dropping it with the 'points based system' being the new proposed policy?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,794
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Can the hard left entitled remoaners such as cyclefree stop whining and recognise what is good for Britain! I am surprised roger and Tyson arent on too.

    Good news HYUFD and I are here to represent voice of reason

    #priti

    Hard left?! Me? I think you may have confused me with a member of the Labour party.

    The last thing this government is concerned about is the interests of the country.

    Still I am sure hard Brexiteers like you will be volunteering to be the first to lose your jobs and be last in the queue for medicines. After all you wouldn’t want us to think that you’re the sort of hypocrite who is happy for others to suffer but unwilling to endure the pain themselves, would you?
    I think you mightt find this piece on No Deal Brexiters interesting. Inity is a long way off.

    https://twitter.com/lsebrexitvote/status/1153912031998820352?s=19

    That was one of the shortest long reads vice ever read. Did I miss a page?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,322

    justin124 said:

    OllyT said:



    If you believe that Corbyn is going to pull that off again good luck to you. Times have changed.

    Dissatisfaction with him amongst members has gone from 19% to 45%. The Lib Dems are rising - 4% ahead of Labour nationally according to today's poll so Labour are no longer the only anti-Tory option. Millions of remainers that voted Labour in 2017 are not going to fall for it a second time whatever Corbyn and his cabal might say on the last minute.

    FPTP is about all that is keeping Labour in the game right now, without it they would sink as they did in the Euros. Their record in recent local government by elections is not that of a party that is heading towards an overall majority.

    It is a mistake to get too obsessed with Yougov - or indeed any single pollster. Most polls have Labour in first or second place with the Libdems at 15%/16%. I am not a Corbynite - and will spoil my ballot paper , albeit for unrelated reasons.
    Especially as "today's poll" turned out to be over two weeks old.
    Fieldwork on the 23rd and 24th.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/s7dlnv4ta4/TimesResults_VI_190724_w.pdf
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428

    justin124 said:

    OllyT said:



    If you believe that Corbyn is going to pull that off again good luck to you. Times have changed.

    Dissatisfaction with him amongst members has gone from 19% to 45%. The Lib Dems are rising - 4% ahead of Labour nationally according to today's poll so Labour are no longer the only anti-Tory option. Millions of remainers that voted Labour in 2017 are not going to fall for it a second time whatever Corbyn and his cabal might say on the last minute.

    FPTP is about all that is keeping Labour in the game right now, without it they would sink as they did in the Euros. Their record in recent local government by elections is not that of a party that is heading towards an overall majority.

    It is a mistake to get too obsessed with Yougov - or indeed any single pollster. Most polls have Labour in first or second place with the Libdems at 15%/16%. I am not a Corbynite - and will spoil my ballot paper , albeit for unrelated reasons.
    Especially as "today's poll" turned out to be over two weeks old.
    Eh? The fieldwork was 23rd - 24th June...

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/07/24/voting-intention-con-25-lib-dem-23-lab-19-brex-17-
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,287
    This is surely an administration poised to call an early election with No Deal in mind.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    OllyT said:



    If you believe that Corbyn is going to pull that off again good luck to you. Times have changed.

    Dissatisfaction with him amongst members has gone from 19% to 45%. The Lib Dems are rising - 4% ahead of Labour nationally according to today's poll so Labour are no longer the only anti-Tory option. Millions of remainers that voted Labour in 2017 are not going to fall for it a second time whatever Corbyn and his cabal might say on the last minute.

    FPTP is about all that is keeping Labour in the game right now, without it they would sink as they did in the Euros. Their record in recent local government by elections is not that of a party that is heading towards an overall majority.

    It is a mistake to get too obsessed with Yougov - or indeed any single pollster. Most polls have Labour in first or second place with the Libdems at 15%/16%. I am not a Corbynite - and will spoil my ballot paper , albeit for unrelated reasons.
    Especially as "today's poll" turned out to be over two weeks old.
    No - there is also a new Yougov poll out today !
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Johnson's radical ruthlessness is sending a message to the electorate and also to Brussels.

    Brussels already has the measure of people like Johnson and Raab. They don’t trust them.

    They have prepared better for No Deal and will then wait to pick off what is best from Britain in the aftermath. They have the upper hand and they know it. As does Canada. And the US and all the other countries who can see that Truss and Boris will be desperate for deals.
    The only good bit of this Cabinet of the Worst will be watching them collide with the Real World.
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438
    Unlike when May sneaked in, this feels like a proper change of government. It also feels like it’s here to stay.

    It feels like I have been here before, late 70s early 80s. So it feels like I know exactly what happens next from this similar political alignment. Just because you personally feel politician, their views or policies are beyond the pale doesn’t mean they don’t go on winning landslide victories

    On topic. No election this side of delivering brexit. I am bewildered by number of people who think there will be. Have you all lost you betting brain? Boris needs time and a brexit to own enough of the leaver vote to be able to call that election. He doesn’t have them this summer, he will next spring. Once brexit delivered the leave plurality will all turn out for Boris. That alone doesn’t deliver Boris his landslide, but the bigger majority of votes going to Labour, Lib Dem, BP and Green in a manner where they fight each other for those votes and don’t exchange them due to bad blood between them delivers Boris the Landslide next Spring. Lib Dem remainers voting for toxic Corbyn, and Labour lending votes to the turncoats who enabled Osbornes austerity to happen. Seriously?

    Delivering brexit will not be nearly as challenging as people claim. EU will want to avoid no deal, and allow brexit to happen with plenty still to be discussed and agreed, this is what will happen. This buys Boris 6 to 15 months of triumph until he needs not just a brexit but a good one. In that period he wins the landslide against split opposition knocking each other out. Just like 83 and 87 all over again.

    Further on from that, I don’t for one moment believe an easy Brexit will be delivered and Global Britain get off to a flying start when the transition from EU comes to a close. But Boris will still own the Leaver plurality, and alongs the votes against him still evenly split and cancelling each other out he can go on winning.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,214

    In view of this new cabinet why is Corbyn ducking a vonc this week

    He must know he could see huge loses to the Lib Dems and to the conservatives in leave seats

    In view of this cabinet, why rush?
    Give them time and space to make decisions and wait for the disasters....
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    JohnO said:

    This is surely an administration poised to call an early election with No Deal in mind.

    I think so.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    justin124 said:

    OllyT said:



    If you believe that Corbyn is going to pull that off again good luck to you. Times have changed.

    Dissatisfaction with him amongst members has gone from 19% to 45%. The Lib Dems are rising - 4% ahead of Labour nationally according to today's poll so Labour are no longer the only anti-Tory option. Millions of remainers that voted Labour in 2017 are not going to fall for it a second time whatever Corbyn and his cabal might say on the last minute.

    FPTP is about all that is keeping Labour in the game right now, without it they would sink as they did in the Euros. Their record in recent local government by elections is not that of a party that is heading towards an overall majority.

    It is a mistake to get too obsessed with Yougov - or indeed any single pollster. Most polls have Labour in first or second place with the Libdems at 15%/16%. I am not a Corbynite - and will spoil my ballot paper , albeit for unrelated reasons.
    Especially as "today's poll" turned out to be over two weeks old.
    Sorry Nick. It wasn't . Todays YouGov

    Cons 25%
    Lib Dems 23%
    Labour 19%
    TBP 17%
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503
    Ishmael_Z said:

    PClipp said:



    Just wondering, Mr HY.... but how is it going down with the rank and file Conservative that three of the top political posts are held by two Indians and and an Israeli? While the top post of all is held by a person of Turkish descent?

    Just wondering.........

    I hadn't realised that Raab was [German origin] Jewish, but how does that make him Israeli?
    Quite. Nor are Javid and Patel "Indians". I don't run around calling people racist, but I think that was a very weird comment.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    justin124 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    justin124 said:

    geoffw said:

    Johnson's radical ruthlessness is sending a message to the electorate and also to Brussels.

    Just like the Roehm Purge of 1934!
    You do realise that the 1934 long knives were non-metaphorical, do you?
    They mainly used bullets , I believe.
    Also axes.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    FPT
    @Richard_Nabavi

    Sorry to see you feel the need to leave the party you love.
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    justin124 said:



    It is a mistake to get too obsessed with Yougov - or indeed any single pollster. Most polls have Labour in first or second place with the Libdems at 15%/16%. I am not a Corbynite - and will spoil my ballot paper , albeit for unrelated reasons.

    Absolutely. After all, every other pollster massively overstates Labour and understates the Lib Dems when it comes to real elections.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Comparatively honest, though.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    What percentage of the cabinet have had serious issues over lying/misrepresentation?

    Johnson - sacked for making up a story as journalist
    Patel - ran her own foreign policy and misled over it - sacked
    Williamson - accused of leaking and misleading - sacked
    Leadsom - accused of exagerrated CV in previous leadership contest
    Jenrick - accused of claiming to be entrepreneur when never ran his own business
    Shapps - alter ego Michael Green

    Any more? Good luck to whoever is in charge of ethics with this lot.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Scott_P said:
    He has just made 17+ enemies who will make his life hell, with no majority in parliament.

    I actually wonder if Boris is a deluded fantasist? He is gambling everything on winning and getting his way but what will be the cost if these poor decisions end in disaster? You do not run a successful country by taking risks with such unpalatable downsides. It is illogical.
    Whatever else is going on, logic certainly isn't.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited July 2019
    Zephyr said:

    Unlike when May sneaked in, this feels like a proper change of government. It also feels like it’s here to stay.

    It feels like I have been here before, late 70s early 80s. So it feels like I know exactly what happens next from this similar political alignment. Just because you personally feel politician, their views or policies are beyond the pale doesn’t mean they don’t go on winning landslide victories

    On topic. No election this side of delivering brexit. I am bewildered by number of people who think there will be. Have you all lost you betting brain? Boris needs time and a brexit to own enough of the leaver vote to be able to call that election. He doesn’t have them this summer, he will next spring. Once brexit delivered the leave plurality will all turn out for Boris. That alone doesn’t deliver Boris his landslide, but the bigger majority of votes going to Labour, Lib Dem, BP and Green in a manner where they fight each other for those votes and don’t exchange them due to bad blood between them delivers Boris the Landslide next Spring. Lib Dem remainers voting for toxic Corbyn, and Labour lending votes to the turncoats who enabled Osbornes austerity to happen. Seriously?

    Delivering brexit will not be nearly as challenging as people claim. EU will want to avoid no deal, and allow brexit to happen with plenty still to be discussed and agreed, this is what will happen. This buys Boris 6 to 15 months of triumph until he needs not just a brexit but a good one. In that period he wins the landslide against split opposition knocking each other out. Just like 83 and 87 all over again.

    Further on from that, I don’t for one moment believe an easy Brexit will be delivered and Global Britain get off to a flying start when the transition from EU comes to a close. But Boris will still own the Leaver plurality, and alongs the votes against him still evenly split and cancelling each other out he can go on winning.

    Whatever bounce materialises, it appears unlikely that Boris will build anything like the poll lead enjoyed by May in Spring 2017 - or by Thatcher in the period leading up to the 83 and 87 elections.
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046



    This must be a cabinet for an Autumn GE

    genuine question: why?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    Just seen the new cabinet...Cripes! Blimey! insert random latin phrase....as our new PM might say.

    Has there been a weaker top team this century?

    Yes. Yesterday.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    rkrkrk said:

    In view of this new cabinet why is Corbyn ducking a vonc this week

    He must know he could see huge loses to the Lib Dems and to the conservatives in leave seats

    In view of this cabinet, why rush?
    Give them time and space to make decisions and wait for the disasters....
    But equally what if it is successful and we brexit

    None of us can be sure
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503
    GIN1138 said:

    Nothing for IDS, JRM or MFI I see? :(

    Isn't JRM Leader of the House?
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    What percentage of the cabinet have had serious issues over lying/misrepresentation?

    Johnson - sacked for making up a story as journalist
    Patel - ran her own foreign policy and misled over it - sacked
    Williamson - accused of leaking and misleading - sacked
    Leadsom - accused of exagerrated CV in previous leadership contest
    Jenrick - accused of claiming to be entrepreneur when never ran his own business
    Shapps - alter ego Michael Green

    Any more? Good luck to whoever is in charge of ethics with this lot.

    Johnson has been sacked for lying on more than one occasion. And I think grovelled to keep his job on a couple of others.

  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006
    edited July 2019
    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Can the hard left entitled remoaners such as cyclefree stop whining and recognise what is good for Britain! I am surprised roger and Tyson arent on too.

    Good news HYUFD and I are here to represent voice of reason

    #priti

    Hard left?! Me? I think you may have confused me with a member of the Labour party.

    The last thing this government is concerned about is the interests of the country.

    Still I am sure hard Brexiteers like you will be volunteering to be the first to lose your jobs and be last in the queue for medicines. After all you wouldn’t want us to think that you’re the sort of hypocrite who is happy for others to suffer but unwilling to endure the pain themselves, would you?
    If one is far enough to the right, all of us seem hard left, rather in the way that people who have never left Kansas assume that everyone in Britain knows each other. (Welcome to the revolution, comrade Cyclefree.)
    Hello Cyclefree I was in one of 'your' constituencies Copeland yesterday. They love your views there. Are you going to take the opportunity to vote labour there??
    They will not love the damage a No Deal Brexit will do their area. The Tory MP has a very small majority. She’ll be out on her ear.
    That Tory MP has ‘owned’ the retaining of maternity services at the west Cumberland hospital. She will be hard to budge. She’s liked. And if she can persuade the new gvt to underwrite the nuclear development at sellafield she’ll be going nowhere.

    Copeland, a labour council for decades now has an indie elected mayor. Who just got re elected, the constituency is now stomping Tory, it’s County council local committee of cllrs is now also Tory.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Zephyr said:

    Unlike when May sneaked in, this feels like a proper change of government. It also feels like it’s here to stay.

    On topic. No election this side of delivering brexit. I am bewildered by number of people who think there will be. Have you all lost you betting brain? Boris needs time and a brexit to own enough of the leaver vote to be able to call that election. He doesn’t have them this summer, he will next spring. Once brexit delivered the leave plurality will all turn out for Boris.

    No. It feels very, very temporary.

    He has to hold an election before the voters find out just how shit No Deal really is.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    Ishmael_Z said:

    PClipp said:



    Just wondering, Mr HY.... but how is it going down with the rank and file Conservative that three of the top political posts are held by two Indians and and an Israeli? While the top post of all is held by a person of Turkish descent?

    Just wondering.........

    I hadn't realised that Raab was [German origin] Jewish, but how does that make him Israeli?
    Quite. Nor are Javid and Patel "Indians". I don't run around calling people racist, but I think that was a very weird comment.

    I thought Patel was the Israeli?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Can the hard left entitled remoaners such as cyclefree stop whining and recognise what is good for Britain! I am surprised roger and Tyson arent on too.

    Good news HYUFD and I are here to represent voice of reason

    #priti

    Hard left?! Me? I think you may have confused me with a member of the Labour party.

    The last thing this government is concerned about is the interests of the country.

    Still I am sure hard Brexiteers like you will be volunteering to be the first to lose your jobs and be last in the queue for medicines. After all you wouldn’t want us to think that you’re the sort of hypocrite who is happy for others to suffer but unwilling to endure the pain themselves, would you?
    I think you mightt find this piece on No Deal Brexiters interesting. Inity is a long way off.

    https://twitter.com/lsebrexitvote/status/1153912031998820352?s=19

    That was one of the shortest long reads vice ever read. Did I miss a page?
    I thought the same, guess it is a long read for the twitterati!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    Tabman said:



    This must be a cabinet for an Autumn GE

    genuine question: why?
    Boris knows he does not have the numbers
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    justin124 said:

    I take no pleasure in the present situation I would love nothing better than be able to rejoin Labour under a centre left leader and I would love to see them heading towards a GE victory. However I cannot vote for a Labour Party led by Corbyn and the 4 Ms. I doubt I am alone and the consequence is likely to be a Johnson majority on about 35% of the vote.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    alex. said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    PClipp said:



    Just wondering, Mr HY.... but how is it going down with the rank and file Conservative that three of the top political posts are held by two Indians and and an Israeli? While the top post of all is held by a person of Turkish descent?

    Just wondering.........

    I hadn't realised that Raab was [German origin] Jewish, but how does that make him Israeli?
    Quite. Nor are Javid and Patel "Indians". I don't run around calling people racist, but I think that was a very weird comment.

    I thought Patel was the Israeli?
    She's not a Raab, anyway...
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    notme2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ave_it said:

    Can the hard left entitled remoaners such as cyclefree stop whining and recognise what is good for Britain! I am surprised roger and Tyson arent on too.

    Good news HYUFD and I are here to represent voice of reason

    #priti

    Hard left?! Me? I think you may have confused me with a member of the Labour party.

    The last thing this government is concerned about is the interests of the country.

    Still I am sure hard Brexiteers like you will be volunteering to be the first to lose your jobs and be last in the queue for medicines. After all you wouldn’t want us to think that you’re the sort of hypocrite who is happy for others to suffer but unwilling to endure the pain themselves, would you?
    If one is far enough to the right, all of us seem hard left, rather in the way that people who have never left Kansas assume that everyone in Britain knows each other. (Welcome to the revolution, comrade Cyclefree.)
    Hello Cyclefree I was in one of 'your' constituencies Copeland yesterday. They love your views there. Are you going to take the opportunity to vote labour there??
    They will not love the damage a No Deal Brexit will do their area. The Tory MP has a very small majority. She’ll be out on her ear.
    That Tory MP has ‘owned’ the retaining of maternity services at the west Cumberland hospital. She will be hard to budge. She’s liked. And if she can persuade the get to underwrite the nuclear development at sellafield she’ll be going nowhere.

    Copeland, a labour council for decades now has an indie elected mayor. Who just got re elected, the constituency is now stomping Tory, it’s County council local committee of cllrs is now also Tory.
    And finally, Cyclefree (by her own admission) does not live in Copeland and so should but be voting there.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    I am very surprised and disappointed with Boris cabinet

    Not at all happy at ditching Hunt and Penny

    Also I do not see the unity he extolled in his choices

    This must be a cabinet for an Autumn GE

    I am always interested on how you view these things.

    Are you one step closer to quitting the party today?

    I am dismayed about the new Government. I cannot help but fear the worst for the country! Boris is going to gamble everything on his Brexit, the downside is too great and a lot of people will suffer. It is interesting the people who have worked with him, MPs and the like have grave misgivings about his judgement. He will sink us all with his deluded fantasy....
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,287
    Cairns remains Welsh Sec
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Johnson's radical ruthlessness is sending a message to the electorate and also to Brussels.

    Brussels already has the measure of people like Johnson and Raab. They don’t trust them.

    They have prepared better for No Deal and will then wait to pick off what is best from Britain in the aftermath. They have the upper hand and they know it. As does Canada. And the US and all the other countries who can see that Truss and Boris will be desperate for deals.
    They aren't meant to trust them.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    OllyT said:

    geoffw said:

    Johnson's radical ruthlessness is sending a message to the electorate and also to Brussels.

    It certainly is but I don't think it's the message you think it is
    You a mind-reader then?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Tabman said:



    This must be a cabinet for an Autumn GE

    genuine question: why?
    Probably it will alienate so many Tory Remainer MPs that Johnson has no getting his Brexit through the existing House of Commons.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    edited July 2019

    Striking thing so far is the number of retreads who left for reasons of scandal or general uselessness.
    Is it because the talent pool is that empty, or is BJ the PM after people who are too compromised to argue back at him? Neither is a good look.

    I think it shows Johnson's limited knowledge of the new intake. Between plotting, bedding mistresses and time abroad as FCO wallah he has had little time to get to know the newbies.

    I suspect that he is pretty relaxed about people sacked for treachery and mendacity, after all it would be hypocritical otherwise!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Johnson's radical ruthlessness is sending a message to the electorate and also to Brussels.

    Brussels already has the measure of people like Johnson and Raab. They don’t trust them.

    They have prepared better for No Deal and will then wait to pick off what is best from Britain in the aftermath. They have the upper hand and they know it. As does Canada. And the US and all the other countries who can see that Truss and Boris will be desperate for deals.
    The only good bit of this Cabinet of the Worst will be watching them collide with the Real World.
    It’s a pity we have to be the passengers in the bus while they crash it.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    Amber Rudd has come out of this without any honour. Nicky Morgan has been shifting for some months now.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503



    Especially as "today's poll" turned out to be over two weeks old.

    Sorry Nick. It wasn't . Todays YouGov

    Cons 25%
    Lib Dems 23%
    Labour 19%
    TBP 17%
    OK, fair enough. Confused it with the header on the last thread.
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Johnson's radical ruthlessness is sending a message to the electorate and also to Brussels.

    Brussels already has the measure of people like Johnson and Raab. They don’t trust them.

    They have prepared better for No Deal and will then wait to pick off what is best from Britain in the aftermath. They have the upper hand and they know it. As does Canada. And the US and all the other countries who can see that Truss and Boris will be desperate for deals.
    The only good bit of this Cabinet of the Worst will be watching them collide with the Real World.
    At the risk of repeating myself, Brussels be like the lighthouse guy..

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KvRYd8U7qGY
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    Well that optimism thing worked well. Next!
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,490
    Tabman said:



    This must be a cabinet for an Autumn GE

    genuine question: why?
    Mainly because the cabinet is a cabinet of 'fully signed up' members. There's no attempt to bring the conservative party together and he knows that his enemies in the party will bring him down rather than have no deal. I think that it'd be hard for a lot of conservative MPs to go into an election where no-deal is in the manifesto. He can only do this if he can pin the blame on the EU though.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Has anyone heard of the latest appointments? Justice who he? International Dev who he?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    I think this also means we are going to pull the rug from under whatever is left of the Iran deal.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    OllyT said:

    justin124 said:

    I take no pleasure in the present situation I would love nothing better than be able to rejoin Labour under a centre left leader and I would love to see them heading towards a GE victory. However I cannot vote for a Labour Party led by Corbyn and the 4 Ms. I doubt I am alone and the consequence is likely to be a Johnson majority on about 35% of the vote.
    That is fair enough , but you have admitted that you did not vote Labour in 2017 when 41% did. On that basis, your views are not new.!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    MaxPB said:

    I think this also means we are going to pull the rug from under whatever is left of the Iran deal.

    I'm also quite worried it makes it much more likely we will bomb seven shades of shit out of Teheran.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    alex. said:

    Has anyone heard of the latest appointments? Justice who he? International Dev who he?

    Alok Sharma Int Dev.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Has anyone considered the outside possibility that Johnsonhas decided that his legacy is that he should go down in history as the man who scuppered Brexit?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,214

    rkrkrk said:

    In view of this new cabinet why is Corbyn ducking a vonc this week

    He must know he could see huge loses to the Lib Dems and to the conservatives in leave seats

    In view of this cabinet, why rush?
    Give them time and space to make decisions and wait for the disasters....
    But equally what if it is successful and we brexit

    None of us can be sure
    At the moment, Boris has to be given a chance by his backbenchers.
    By September, I think the ground will be much riper for a Vonc and potentially some will have left the Tory party.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599

    Amber Rudd has come out of this without any honour. Nicky Morgan has been shifting for some months now.

    I think Rudd knows this is her last term as an MP given her seat and majority. I am not sure how well connected she is for jobs afterwards or how wealthy she is already but imagine money/status from being in the cabinet is a bigger factor for her than many others who might be in safer seats, have independent wealth or be towards the end of their careers.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Mogg heading in now
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428

    Well that optimism thing worked well. Next!
    The mid-twenties % strategy as @AlastairMeeks has been saying for weeks.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Scott_P said:
    And no, Foreign Secretary, whatever that twat from Epping thinks, they can't get through by sailing round the Cape of Good Hope...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503
    alex. said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    PClipp said:



    Just wondering, Mr HY.... but how is it going down with the rank and file Conservative that three of the top political posts are held by two Indians and and an Israeli? While the top post of all is held by a person of Turkish descent?

    Just wondering.........

    I hadn't realised that Raab was [German origin] Jewish, but how does that make him Israeli?
    Quite. Nor are Javid and Patel "Indians". I don't run around calling people racist, but I think that was a very weird comment.

    I thought Patel was the Israeli?
    I dunno what goes on in PClipp's head, I'll leave it to him to explain.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    geoffw said:

    OllyT said:

    geoffw said:

    Johnson's radical ruthlessness is sending a message to the electorate and also to Brussels.

    It certainly is but I don't think it's the message you think it is
    You a mind-reader then?
    "I'm going to post vague comments and God help anyone arrogant enough to think they know what I actually mean"
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    I am very surprised and disappointed with Boris cabinet

    Not at all happy at ditching Hunt and Penny

    Also I do not see the unity he extolled in his choices

    This must be a cabinet for an Autumn GE

    I am always interested on how you view these things.

    Are you one step closer to quitting the party today?

    I am dismayed about the new Government. I cannot help but fear the worst for the country! Boris is going to gamble everything on his Brexit, the downside is too great and a lot of people will suffer. It is interesting the people who have worked with him, MPs and the like have grave misgivings about his judgement. He will sink us all with his deluded fantasy....
    My position hasn't changed from supporting a deal but no deal results in my resignation
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    JRM is in No 10.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    ydoethur said:

    alex. said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    PClipp said:



    Just wondering, Mr HY.... but how is it going down with the rank and file Conservative that three of the top political posts are held by two Indians and and an Israeli? While the top post of all is held by a person of Turkish descent?

    Just wondering.........

    I hadn't realised that Raab was [German origin] Jewish, but how does that make him Israeli?
    Quite. Nor are Javid and Patel "Indians". I don't run around calling people racist, but I think that was a very weird comment.

    I thought Patel was the Israeli?
    She's not a Raab, anyway...
    That pun was like the bedouin, intentse...

    Is that my coat?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    Have we ever had a time when the two major parties have had basically all their best and brightest on the backbenches?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    edited July 2019
    alex. said:

    Has anyone considered the outside possibility that Johnsonhas decided that his legacy is that he should go down in history as the man who scuppered Brexit?

    More like he has a plan to destroy the Conservative party as a party of national strength.

    Bleak, bleak day for the Party.

    (as an e.g. good luck to Ruthie across the Border).

  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    JRM entering the Cabinet is going to cost him a lot of money, isn’t it? What’s he going to do with his hedge fund?
  • Have we ever had a time when the two major parties have had basically all their best and brightest on the backbenches?

    Chris Grayling? Karen Bradley? Liam Fox?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:
    And no, Foreign Secretary, whatever that twat from Epping thinks, they can't get through by sailing round the Cape of Good Hope...
    That was a really surreal moment on here
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    alex. said:

    JRM entering the Cabinet is going to cost him a lot of money, isn’t it? What’s he going to do with his hedge fund?

    I am not sure ethics are going to be considered.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    McVey enters Number 10.
This discussion has been closed.