On the day the Tories put two millionaires up to their selectorate... Nowt looks better than a tuxedo clad bloke manhandling a woman while the rest just sit there filling their faces. Great optics Mr Field.
The Tories really are determined to lose their nominal majority even with the DUP alliance one way or another aren't they? De-selection hunts, expenses fiddling, assault, they'll do what it takes to lose seats.
Small majority in remainer central. Former Tory heartland, and locals not punishing new candidates for old candidate scandals, it still looks hard to retain.
Looks like Mark Field MP could be in big trouble .
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
Not a Citizen's Arrest for Breach of the Peace?
Oh, its a Tory MP.....silly question......
Good grief stop digging . Do you really think his behaviour was acceptable . She wasn’t posing a threat .
She barged into an official dinner with the Chancellor, the Governor of the Bank of England etc, she could have been carrying a knife, a bomb, a gun who knows.
Even if Field was heavy handed the more serious questions should be where on earth and what on earth were the security at this dinner doing to allow her anywhere near the banqueting hall?
What is success? If it’s us leaving the EU then that, is my mind failure. Success for whom, those wanting middle income tax cuts? Or is it saving the Tory party?
The EU (like the British state) only deserves to exist if it benefits its citizens.
If Boris Johnson is able to make a success of the UK outside the EU, then everyone should be cheering.
Now, the big question is whether he can. And we shall see.
For the UK to leave the EU would be an act of self-denial in the pursuit of a lie.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, the debt is paid."
And, of course, that excellent quote (from a truly brilliant TV series) applies most - and more aptly than anywhere else - to elite British europhiles, 1973-2016. At every juncture, they told lie after lie. "No loss of sovereignty", "a tidying up exercise", "Lisbon is different to the constitution". And everyone's favourite "We solemnly promise you a referendu... ooh, wait, we've been elected, fuck off, you're not getting a vote"
Slowly. over time, the lies and lies and lies incurred an enormous debt to the truth. That debt was paid, including interest, with Brexit.
The UK's membership of the EU = the Soviet nuclear energy industry. Discuss.
That is pure bollocks.
There was a long debate on Sovereignty between Heath and Foot on the subject, in which Heath was clear that membership meant pooled sovereignty. It was originally broadcast at prime time on one of 3 TV channels and watched by millions:
Are you honestly trying to defend the serial lies told by europhiles over 30 years, in particular with regards to Maastricht, Lisbon, the Constitution?
This is absurd. We will only get Reconciliation on Brexit when both sides tell the Truth. And the truth is the europhiles lied to the people for decades, because they knew the British people would never tolerate the truth of European integration. The Brexiteers have told their own lies in return, but all parties are deeply at fault. Brexit springs from a total failure of the governing classes, Left to Right.
So it will be PM Bonking Boris followed by Jezza (or possibly Marxist McDonnell)....searching Canadian real estate as we speak.
Way ahead of you.
FYI - Canada is bloody cold.
Vancouver isn't too bad (and lovely in the summer)....but the real estate prices are sky high.
Montréal is great, whatever the weather (their French is appalling, mind you). Toronna less so. And as for St. John’s, may I introduce you to screech.
Following on from earlier comments about crappiest food countries. Somebody said Canada, they obviously never been to Montreal. Lots of very good restaurants.
Jacques Chirac said the British had worse food than anyone bar the Finns
New Zealand must be a strong candidate for the worst food - in terms of general availability. There are some great restaurants in Auckland and Wellington, but the rump of the country is a food desert. Many larger towns have ne’er a single decent restaurant or pub in them, really depressingly boringly crap, gastronomically speaking.
Looks like Mark Field MP could be in big trouble .
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
Not a Citizen's Arrest for Breach of the Peace?
Oh, its a Tory MP.....silly question......
Good grief stop digging . Do you really think his behaviour was acceptable . She wasn’t posing a threat .
She barged into an official dinner with the Chancellor, the Governor of the Bank of England etc, she could have been carrying a knife, a bomb, a gun who knows.
Even if Field was heavy handed the more serious questions should be where on earth and what on earth were the security at this dinner doing to allow her anywhere near the banqueting hall?
Of course questions will be asked about security. But with respect, no one is going to focus on that as the main issue because she apparently wasn't carrying those things and he didn't need to act like that.
Since BoJo thinks he will get a massive majority anyway, there's really no incentive for him to not throw Field to the wolves.
Looks like Mark Field MP could be in big trouble .
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
Just seen it. Yep. Pretty dreadful....
His only defense might be that she looked menacing and dangerous - but she just doesn't. Perhappenchance he will resign.
What did he do?
Grabbed a climate change protestor - an apparently unthreathening woman - by the throat and slammed her against a pillar. Awful optics, whatever his explanation.
Watch the video carefully.
Don't know about you, but my throat is at the front of my neck, not the back.
Grappled with someone causing a breach of the peace and escorted her from the scene.
Are you trying to defend him?
Crikey. Perhaps the worst bit - and it is all horrible - is when he "frog marches" her out by the neck. Grim, grim, grim. It is every Tory-hater's wet dream come true, arrogant rich man brutally picking on woman.
His career is finished. No explanation will save him. The spectacle will be gory. He's best off getting it done now.
Unfortunately the poster in question is a sycophantic partisan
Looks like Mark Field MP could be in big trouble .
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
Just seen it. Yep. Pretty dreadful....
His only defense might be that she looked menacing and dangerous - but she just doesn't. Perhappenchance he will resign.
What did he do?
Grabbed a climate change protestor - an apparently unthreathening woman - by the throat and slammed her against a pillar. Awful optics, whatever his explanation.
Watch the video carefully.
Don't know about you, but my throat is at the front of my neck, not the back.
Grappled with someone causing a breach of the peace and escorted her from the scene.
Are you trying to defend him?
Crikey. Perhaps the worst bit - and it is all horrible - is when he "frog marches" her out by the neck. Grim, grim, grim. It is every Tory-hater's wet dream come true, arrogant rich man brutally picking on woman.
His career is finished. No explanation will save him. The spectacle will be gory. He's best off getting it done now.
Unfortunately the poster in question is a sycophantic partisan
The footage of Field is like a scene from Years and Years. This is not a good thing for Tories.
What is success? If it’s us leaving the EU then that, is my mind failure. Success for whom, those wanting middle income tax cuts? Or is it saving the Tory party?
The EU (like the British state) only deserves to exist if it benefits its citizens.
If Boris Johnson is able to make a success of the UK outside the EU, then everyone should be cheering.
Now, the big question is whether he can. And we shall see.
For the UK to leave the EU would be an act of self-denial in the pursuit of a lie.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, the debt is paid."
And, of course, that excellent quote (from a truly brilliant TV series) applies most - and more aptly than anywhere else - to elite British europhiles, 1973-2016. At every juncture, they told lie after lie. "No loss of sovereignty", "a tidying up exercise", "Lisbon is different to the constitution". And everyone's favourite "We solemnly promise you a referendu... ooh, wait, we've been elected, fuck off, you're not getting a vote"
Slowly. over time, the lies and lies and lies incurred an enormous debt to the truth. That debt was paid, including interest, with Brexit.
The UK's membership of the EU = the Soviet nuclear energy industry. Discuss.
That is pure bollocks.
There was a long debate on Sovereignty between Heath and Foot on the subject, in which Heath was clear that membership meant pooled sovereignty. It was originally broadcast at prime time on one of 3 TV channels and watched by millions:
Are you honestly trying to defend the serial lies told by europhiles over 30 years, in particular with regards to Maastricht, Lisbon, the Constitution?
This is absurd. We will only get Reconciliation on Brexit when both sides tell the Truth. And the truth is the europhiles lied to the people for decades, because they knew the British people would never tolerate the truth of European integration. The Brexiteers have told their own lies in return, but all parties are deeply at fault. Brexit springs from a total failure of the governing classes, Left to Right.
It is futile and pernicious to argue otherwise.
Just pointing out that you are WRONG. As the video shows it was perfectly clear that we were pooling sovereignty by joining. Don't let your prejudices get in the way of the FACTS.
These really do feel like the dying days of government. It's just bad news after bad news.
Is this was the last days of the Major government felt like?
Maybe, but as Boris will be the best Tory PM since Thatcher it will not be for long.
A better comparison is the last days of the Neville Chamberlain government before Winston came in
Seriously? He's not even got the job yet, has an at best patchy career, and you've already decided he will be the best Tory PM since Thatcher? I know that is not all that many people to top, but come on.
Looks like Mark Field MP could be in big trouble .
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
Not a Citizen's Arrest for Breach of the Peace?
Oh, its a Tory MP.....silly question......
Good grief stop digging . Do you really think his behaviour was acceptable . She wasn’t posing a threat .
She barged into an official dinner with the Chancellor, the Governor of the Bank of England etc, she could have been carrying a knife, a bomb, a gun who knows.
Even if Field was heavy handed the more serious questions should be where on earth and what on earth were the security at this dinner doing to allow her anywhere near the banqueting hall?
From my experience, there is almost no overt security of the type you allude to at posh dinners, even when the guests are senior politicians/civil servants. If you are dressed in black tie, you could just walk in. She looks fairly smartly attired from that tape so it’s easy to see how she got in.
Having blokes with machine guns and heavy handed security would kind of kill the vibe.
These really do feel like the dying days of government. It's just bad news after bad news.
Is this was the last days of the Major government felt like?
No. That was different because there was a credible opposition party that was putting forward a popular set of alternative policies. Major, on the whole, was a largely honorable man with some flaws. It was a very different feel to now
If I were Field I'd stay clear of both Boris and Hunt tomorrow - neither would have wanted this to be the story they get pressed on on the first day of their campaign.
Crikey. Perhaps the worst bit - and it is all horrible - is when he "frog marches" her out by the neck. Grim, grim, grim. It is every Tory-hater's wet dream come true, arrogant rich man brutally picking on woman.
His career is finished. No explanation will save him. The spectacle will be gory. He's best off getting it done now.
Er, "...rich man brutally picking on woman (sic)"?
Which one of them was supposed to be at the event, and which one was intruding?
These really do feel like the dying days of government. It's just bad news after bad news.
Is this was the last days of the Major government felt like?
Yes! I was just thinking that myself. The difference is that it all rained down on gentleman John’s head. These days it feels as if no one can - or even intends to - take responsibility for anything. Strange times.
These really do feel like the dying days of government. It's just bad news after bad news.
Is this was the last days of the Major government felt like?
Maybe, but as Boris will be the best Tory PM since Thatcher it will not be for long.
A better comparison is the last days of the Neville Chamberlain government before Winston came in
Seriously? He's not even got the job yet, has an at best patchy career, and you've already decided he will be the best Tory PM since Thatcher? I know that is not all that many people to top, but come on.
Absolutely, remember Boris even outperformed Cameron in 2012 when he won London and Dave lost nationally.
Boris in terms of enthusiasm and energy and belief and communication skills is already up there with Churchill and Thatcher even if his premiership does not quite reach their heights, he also has the self belief they had and to be fair Macmillan and Cameron and Baldwin had too, the best Tory leaders of the last 100 years
These really do feel like the dying days of government. It's just bad news after bad news.
Is this was the last days of the Major government felt like?
No. That was different because there was a credible opposition party that was putting forward a popular set of alternative policies. Major, on the whole, was a largely honorable man with some flaws. It was a very different feel to now
First as tragedy, then as farce. This is the farce bit.
Bryan Gould would have been an interesting leader for Labour, and if had won would have prevented Blair getting the opportunity. I always liked his style and politics, but with his sane Euroscepticism (he resigned from John Smiths front bench over Maastricht) would have taken Labour in a very different direction. He would have won in 97, but not the same landslide.
Bryan got just 9%. That effectively ended his career. Will Hunt top that?
He went back to NZ and made a difference didn’t he? Ended political career, yes but arguably did more good.
The point is that Hunt needs to tread carefully. A heavy defeat could be crtically damaging.
Maybe Hunt will surprise and land some serious punches?
Or has someone been saving up release of a real scandal on Boris until now, the moment of truth....?
Now that a "remainer" has been engineered into the second slot I think the membership will vote for Johnson whatever comes out now.
We actually need a Brexiteer to take charge now, if Hunt were to win we would be right back to the May situation and all the leavers will just blame everything on Hunt really being a remainer.
Although I can't see how he will do it I find myself in the odd situation of actually wanting Johnson to to get Brexit sorted successfully because if he doesn't we end up with a Corbyn government and I think that needs to be avoided at all costs.
1. BJ is now a shoo-in. There's nothing he could say or do to prevent that. In that respect (and perhaps others) he's an English Trump. This is a relief in a way since it now means we can all have a holiday from politics till the 22nd of July. (Though perhaps not a holiday from betting.)
2. You say that if Hunt wins we'll be right back to the May situation. In fact whoever wins we'll be right back to the May situation. BJ hasn't said anything that May didn't say over and over, and I'm sceptical that he'll find any new means of escaping the impasse. It seems Farage agrees with me, and he's the leader that most Brexiters really want.
My point is that we will soon have the ERG's preferred candidate as PM so if and when he fails to deliver then most people are going to conclude it's undeliverable.
Farage would be an unmitigated disaster if he ever actually had to do anything but criticise everyone else. he'd be found out in weeks if not days.
I fully support Make Field's actions. The safety of the Chancellor and the Governor of the BoE are paramount.
She was breaking and entering. No doubt he will be sacked by May, but would have been sacked by Boris anyway so doesn't really make much difference.
For all those saying she doesn't pose a risk - why take the risk? Who knows what any individual protester has concealed.
And lo, this is why Tory attempts at damage control will fail. Because probably the senior people will all not defend Field, but he will have substantial people saying it was all fine, and people will think the senior figures are just disguising what they think. It's the same reason Brown apologising to Duffy rang a bit hollow as others defended what he did sans apology, and of course plenty of reactions to anti semitism issues which ring hollow.
If I were Field I'd stay clear of both Boris and Hunt tomorrow - neither would have wanted this to be the story they get pressed on on the first day of their campaign.
One possible misconception Twitter may be operating under is that there is widespread support for disruption caused by climate change protestors....
She’s walking past , not shouting not doing anything remotely threatening . And then Mark Field grabs her by the neck after he’s pushed her against the pillar .
I expect he’ll apologize profusely , say he had drunk a bit too much . Much depends on whether she presses charges . If she does I think he’s toast .
These really do feel like the dying days of government. It's just bad news after bad news.
Is this was the last days of the Major government felt like?
Yep. Economy trolling along nicely, policies abandoned, ludicrous events involving Tory MPs behaving recklessly, stupidly and criminally every few weeks (Brecon and Radnor tomorrow). General sense of drift, and waiting for summat, anything to turn up. A United, dynamic opposition providing a forensic critique, and looking every inch a government in waiting...er, hang on a minute.
I'm not on any bus. I'm just calling it as I see it. The nature of social media today means that something like this, going viral, will burn a career to the ground in seconds. This is just the case.
Moreover, whatever he says, it looks truly terrible. Why didn't he just bar her way? Why attack her? Was he drunk?
Looks like Mark Field MP could be in big trouble .
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
Not a Citizen's Arrest for Breach of the Peace?
Oh, its a Tory MP.....silly question......
Good grief stop digging . Do you really think his behaviour was acceptable . She wasn’t posing a threat .
She barged into an official dinner with the Chancellor, the Governor of the Bank of England etc, she could have been carrying a knife, a bomb, a gun who knows.
Even if Field was heavy handed the more serious questions should be where on earth and what on earth were the security at this dinner doing to allow her anywhere near the banqueting hall?
I looked for the news coverage and found a photo of the same MP grabbing Jeremy Hunt's wife last week - though with amorous rather than hostile intent. It didn't look very comfortable for her, though.
If I were Field I'd stay clear of both Boris and Hunt tomorrow - neither would have wanted this to be the story they get pressed on on the first day of their campaign.
One possible misconception Twitter may be operating under is that there is widespread support for disruption caused by climate change protestors....
These really do feel like the dying days of government. It's just bad news after bad news.
Is this was the last days of the Major government felt like?
Maybe, but as Boris will be the best Tory PM since Thatcher it will not be for long.
A better comparison is the last days of the Neville Chamberlain government before Winston came in
Churchill was forced on an unwilling Tory party by the Leader of the opposition as Labour were unwilling to support the Tory choice.
Boris has been forced on an unwilling Tory Party by Nigel Farage, the winner of the European elections.
Boris will fight Farage as much as Churchill fought Attlee once he got the job, even if they are and were united on one aim initially, delivering Brexit and defeating Hitler
Looks like Mark Field MP could be in big trouble .
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
Not a Citizen's Arrest for Breach of the Peace?
Oh, its a Tory MP.....silly question......
Good grief stop digging . Do you really think his behaviour was acceptable . She wasn’t posing a threat .
She barged into an official dinner with the Chancellor, the Governor of the Bank of England etc, she could have been carrying a knife, a bomb, a gun who knows.
Even if Field was heavy handed the more serious questions should be where on earth and what on earth were the security at this dinner doing to allow her anywhere near the banqueting hall?
From my experience, there is almost no overt security of the type you allude to at posh dinners, even when the guests are senior politicians/civil servants. If you are dressed in black tie, you could just walk in. She looks fairly smartly attired from that tape so it’s easy to see how she got in.
Having blokes with machine guns and heavy handed security would kind of kill the vibe.
Normally they at least check your tickets, with terrorism a major threat today security should be upped significantly.
Of course if it was a visiting Head of State it certainly would have been
If I were Field I'd stay clear of both Boris and Hunt tomorrow - neither would have wanted this to be the story they get pressed on on the first day of their campaign.
One possible misconception Twitter may be operating under is that there is widespread support for disruption caused by climate change protestors....
Oh, I imagine plenty will be very annoyed at that. Well meaning as many of them often are these protestors can be self righteous and bloody irritating, disruptive just for the sake of publicity and so self satisfied about their own moral superiority. Or so they are viewed by plenty, including me in my more unfair moments.
I don't think that will save him. Two wrongs don't make a right. To use a favoured expression of mine, if I deliberately stand on your toe that makes me a dick and inthe wrong, but it doesn't mean you will be ok to punch me in the face in response.
Yes, he frogmarched her out, and he can try to play up the disruption justifying it. But the optics of it. He's definitely sacked, he may well be charged with something, and the leadership contenders will be desperate for the story to move on. 'She started it by protesting' is not a great defence.
If I were Field I'd stay clear of both Boris and Hunt tomorrow - neither would have wanted this to be the story they get pressed on on the first day of their campaign.
One possible misconception Twitter may be operating under is that there is widespread support for disruption caused by climate change protestors....
You’re missing the point . Regardless of what the protest was about Mark Field didn’t need to get involved . You seem to be desperately defending Field because you think this is just some anti Tory thing but I expect if it had been a Labour politician you’d be taking a different view . The video doesn’t lie even if you’d like it to !
If I were Field I'd stay clear of both Boris and Hunt tomorrow - neither would have wanted this to be the story they get pressed on on the first day of their campaign.
One possible misconception Twitter may be operating under is that there is widespread support for disruption caused by climate change protestors....
You do realise that Twitter is just a platform, do you?
These really do feel like the dying days of government. It's just bad news after bad news.
Is this was the last days of the Major government felt like?
Yep. Economy trolling along nicely, policies abandoned, ludicrous events involving Tory MPs behaving recklessly, stupidly and criminally every few weeks (Brecon and Radnor tomorrow). General sense of drift, and waiting for summat, anything to turn up. A United, dynamic opposition providing a forensic critique, and looking every inch a government in waiting...er, hang on a minute.
So it's like the last days of Major, only worse, with paralysed politics to boot? Great
Might as well quit tomorrow as the Brecon news comes in, that way the by-election writs can be moved together.
If I were Field I'd stay clear of both Boris and Hunt tomorrow - neither would have wanted this to be the story they get pressed on on the first day of their campaign.
One possible misconception Twitter may be operating under is that there is widespread support for disruption caused by climate change protestors....
Oh, I imagine plenty will be very annoyed at that. Well meaning as many of them often are these protestors can be self righteous and bloody irritating, disruptive just for the sake of publicity and so self satisfied about their own moral superiority. Or so they are viewed by plenty, including me in my more unfair moments.
I don't think that will save him. Two wrongs don't make a right. To use a favoured expression of mine, if I deliberately stand on your toe that makes me a dick and inthe wrong, but it doesn't mean you will be ok to punch me in the face in response.
Yes, he frogmarched her out, and he can try to play up the disruption justifying it. But the optics of it. He'd definitely sacked, he may well be charged with something, and the leadership contenders will be desperate for the story to move on.
Without getting involved in this case, if someone deliberately stamps on your foot I think that does justify you punching them. If you're under physical assault I think hitting someone back is perfectly justified.
If I were Field I'd stay clear of both Boris and Hunt tomorrow - neither would have wanted this to be the story they get pressed on on the first day of their campaign.
One possible misconception Twitter may be operating under is that there is widespread support for disruption caused by climate change protestors....
Oh, I imagine plenty will be very annoyed at that. Well meaning as many of them often are these protestors can be self righteous and bloody irritating, disruptive just for the sake of publicity and so self satisfied about their own moral superiority. Or so they are viewed by plenty, including me in my more unfair moments.
I don't think that will save him. Two wrongs don't make a right. To use a favoured expression of mine, if I deliberately stand on your toe that makes me a dick and inthe wrong, but it doesn't mean you will be ok to punch me in the face in response.
Yes, he frogmarched her out, and he can try to play up the disruption justifying it. But the optics of it. He'd definitely sacked, he may well be charged with something, and the leadership contenders will be desperate for the story to move on.
Without getting involved in this case, if someone deliberately stamps on your foot I think that does justify you punching them. If you're under physical assault I think hitting someone back is perfectly justified.
My metaphor was deliberately 'stand on', not 'stamp' (and on toe, not foot), precisely because the point was the disproportionate nature of the response exceeding the initial wrongdoing. Of course the response can be justified if the instigating event is made more serious, but that's not what I described, or I would think how people will view the proportionate nature of Field's response.
These really do feel like the dying days of government. It's just bad news after bad news.
Is this was the last days of the Major government felt like?
Maybe, but as Boris will be the best Tory PM since Thatcher it will not be for long.
A better comparison is the last days of the Neville Chamberlain government before Winston came in
Churchill was forced on an unwilling Tory party by the Leader of the opposition as Labour were unwilling to support the Tory choice.
Boris has been forced on an unwilling Tory Party by Nigel Farage, the winner of the European elections.
Boris will fight Farage as much as Churchill fought Attlee once he got the job, even if they are and were united on one aim initially, delivering Brexit and defeating Hitler
IN 1940 it was a Conservative, Labour, Liberal coalition government that insisted on Churchill. Boris has barely 51% support within his own party, and zero from other parties.
I solemnly predict Mark Field will have to resign as minister and MP.
Which means a fascinating by-election. His constituency is heavily pro-Remain, BUT Boris will be leader, and London Likes Bories (or it did). Very hard to call.
If I were Field I'd stay clear of both Boris and Hunt tomorrow - neither would have wanted this to be the story they get pressed on on the first day of their campaign.
One possible misconception Twitter may be operating under is that there is widespread support for disruption caused by climate change protestors....
Oh, I imagine plenty will be very annoyed at that. Well meaning as many of them often are these protestors can be self righteous and bloody irritating, disruptive just for the sake of publicity and so self satisfied about their own moral superiority. Or so they are viewed by plenty, including me in my more unfair moments.
I don't think that will save him. Two wrongs don't make a right. To use a favoured expression of mine, if I deliberately stand on your toe that makes me a dick and inthe wrong, but it doesn't mean you will be ok to punch me in the face in response.
Yes, he frogmarched her out, and he can try to play up the disruption justifying it. But the optics of it. He'd definitely sacked, he may well be charged with something, and the leadership contenders will be desperate for the story to move on.
Without getting involved in this case, if someone deliberately stamps on your foot I think that does justify you punching them. If you're under physical assault I think hitting someone back is perfectly justified.
My metaphor was deliberately 'stand on', not 'stamp' (and on toe, not foot), precisely because the point was the disproportionate nature of the response exceeding the initial wrongdoing. Of course the response can be justified if the instigating event is made more serious, but that's not what I described, or I would think how people will view the proportionate nature of Field's response.
Well you said deliberately. I don't know many people who deliberately (as opposed to accidentally) step on toes. If it is a deliberate action I'd imagine it as a stomp or I can't imagine why someone would do it, in which case retaliation in that moment is justifiable.
I solemnly predict Mark Field will have to resign as minister and MP.
Which means a fascinating by-election. His constituency is heavily pro-Remain, BUT Boris will be leader, and London Likes Bories (or it did). Very hard to call.
Boris did not carry central London did he? Perhaps in that area, it being more Tory, but they almost lost it 2 years ago, and have gotten a lot worse since.
If I were Field I'd stay clear of both Boris and Hunt tomorrow - neither would have wanted this to be the story they get pressed on on the first day of their campaign.
One possible misconception Twitter may be operating under is that there is widespread support for disruption caused by climate change protestors....
Oh, I imagine plenty will be very annoyed at that. Well meaning as many of them often are these protestors can be self righteous and bloody irritating, disruptive just for the sake of publicity and so self satisfied about their own moral superiority. Or so they are viewed by plenty, including me in my more unfair moments.
I don't think that will save him. Two wrongs don't make a right. To use a favoured expression of mine, if I deliberately stand on your toe that makes me a dick and inthe wrong, but it doesn't mean you will be ok to punch me in the face in response.
Yes, he frogmarched her out, and he can try to play up the disruption justifying it. But the optics of it. He'd definitely sacked, he may well be charged with something, and the leadership contenders will be desperate for the story to move on.
Without getting involved in this case, if someone deliberately stamps on your foot I think that does justify you punching them. If you're under physical assault I think hitting someone back is perfectly justified.
I solemnly predict Mark Field will have to resign as minister and MP.
Which means a fascinating by-election. His constituency is heavily pro-Remain, BUT Boris will be leader, and London Likes Bories (or it did). Very hard to call.
He won't resign as an MP. Not sure about minister.
If I were Field I'd stay clear of both Boris and Hunt tomorrow - neither would have wanted this to be the story they get pressed on on the first day of their campaign.
One possible misconception Twitter may be operating under is that there is widespread support for disruption caused by climate change protestors....
Oh, I imagine plenty will be very annoyed at that. Well meaning as many of them often are these protestors can be self righteous and bloody irritating, disruptive just for the sake of publicity and so self satisfied about their own moral superiority. Or so they are viewed by plenty, including me in my more unfair moments.
I don't think that will save him. Two wrongs don't make a right. To use a favoured expression of mine, if I deliberately stand on your toe that makes me a dick and inthe wrong, but it doesn't mean you will be ok to punch me in the face in response.
Yes, he frogmarched her out, and he can try to play up the disruption justifying it. But the optics of it. He'd definitely sacked, he may well be charged with something, and the leadership contenders will be desperate for the story to move on.
Without getting involved in this case, if someone deliberately stamps on your foot I think that does justify you punching them. If you're under physical assault I think hitting someone back is perfectly justified.
Punching someone in the face can kill them.
Indeed it only takes 1 punch to inflict serious damage. I was nearly blinded in an unprovoked GBH attack that shattered my eye socket off one punch, from someone high as a kite who just randomly attacked.
Looks like Mark Field MP could be in big trouble .
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
Not a Citizen's Arrest for Breach of the Peace?
Oh, its a Tory MP.....silly question......
Good grief stop digging . Do you really think his behaviour was acceptable . She wasn’t posing a threat .
She barged into an official dinner with the Chancellor, the Governor of the Bank of England etc, she could have been carrying a knife, a bomb, a gun who knows.
Even if Field was heavy handed the more serious questions should be where on earth and what on earth were the security at this dinner doing to allow her anywhere near the banqueting hall?
From my experience, there is almost no overt security of the type you allude to at posh dinners, even when the guests are senior politicians/civil servants. If you are dressed in black tie, you could just walk in. She looks fairly smartly attired from that tape so it’s easy to see how she got in.
Having blokes with machine guns and heavy handed security would kind of kill the vibe.
Normally they at least check your tickets, with terrorism a major threat today security should be upped significantly.
Of course if it was a visiting Head of State it certainly would have been
Normally there are a couple of dolled up girls with a list, but there are so many people milling about it’s very easy to slip by. I do it all the time - when invited - simply because I can’t be done with the agg of their attempting to verify it without my having an invitation. I never remember to bring the invite.
I solemnly predict Mark Field will have to resign as minister and MP.
Which means a fascinating by-election. His constituency is heavily pro-Remain, BUT Boris will be leader, and London Likes Bories (or it did). Very hard to call.
He won't resign as an MP. Not sure about minister.
Agreed.
Suspect after initial outrage from the climate change/left lobby the court of public opinion will probably swing against the woman who seems to be an intruder.
If I were Field I'd stay clear of both Boris and Hunt tomorrow - neither would have wanted this to be the story they get pressed on on the first day of their campaign.
One possible misconception Twitter may be operating under is that there is widespread support for disruption caused by climate change protestors....
Oh, I ime on.
Without getting involved in this case, if someone deliberately stamps on your foot I think that does justify you punching them. If you're under physical assault I think hitting someone back is perfectly justified.
My metaphor was deliberately 'stand on', not 'stamp' (and on toe, not foot), precisely because the point was the disproportionate nature of the response exceeding the initial wrongdoing. Of course the response can be justified if the instigating event is made more serious, but that's not what I described, or I would think how people will view the proportionate nature of Field's response.
Well you said deliberately. I don't know many people who deliberately (as opposed to accidentally) step on toes. If it is a deliberate action I'd imagine it as a stomp or I can't imagine why someone would do it, in which case retaliation in that moment is justifiable.
You're confusing me. Yes, I did say deliberately. But that you cannot imagine someone merely stepping on a toe deliberately does not change that the scenario I chose to describe was very clearly not the one you imagined and which I wrote very clearly, so why did you make up another one? You saw the word deliberately, but did not see the word 'stand'?
The unlikelihood of the scenario was hardly the point, and I'm certainly not making the argument that if it was an actual assault a retaliation would not be justified, so why argue a point no one is contesting?
If it makes it easier for you, focus on the abstract point - that even if the initial action from party a is wrong, party b can be even more in the wrong through a disproportionate response.
I don't think that will save him. Two wrongs don't make a right. To use a favoured expression of mine, if I deliberately stand on your toe that makes me a dick and inthe wrong, but it doesn't mean you will be ok to punch me in the face in response
Without getting involved in this case, if someone deliberately stamps on your foot I think that does justify you punching them. If you're under physical assault I think hitting someone back is perfectly justified.
I solemnly predict Mark Field will have to resign as minister and MP.
Which means a fascinating by-election. His constituency is heavily pro-Remain, BUT Boris will be leader, and London Likes Bories (or it did). Very hard to call.
He won't resign as an MP and in any case even if he was a bit heavy handed I am getting fed up of these annoying eco warriors who think it is being very courageous invading the Mansion House but would never dream of doing the same in Moscow or Beijing where much of the real difference to climate will be made
I solemnly predict Mark Field will have to resign as minister and MP.
Which means a fascinating by-election. His constituency is heavily pro-Remain, BUT Boris will be leader, and London Likes Bories (or it did). Very hard to call.
He won't resign as an MP. Not sure about minister.
Agreed.
Suspect after initial outrage from the climate change/left lobby the court of public opinion will probably swing against the woman who seems to be an intruder.
I don't think that will save him. Two wrongs don't make a right. To use a favoured expression of mine, if I deliberately stand on your toe that makes me a dick and inthe wrong, but it doesn't mean you will be ok to punch me in the face in response
Without getting involved in this case, if someone deliberately stamps on your foot I think that does justify you punching them. If you're under physical assault I think hitting someone back is perfectly justified.
Agreed.
The force has to be reasonable and proportionate to the threat
I don't think that will save him. Two wrongs don't make a right. To use a favoured expression of mine, if I deliberately stand on your toe that makes me a dick and inthe wrong, but it doesn't mean you will be ok to punch me in the face in response
Without getting involved in this case, if someone deliberately stamps on your foot I think that does justify you punching them. If you're under physical assault I think hitting someone back is perfectly justified.
Agreed.
Except that was not the scenario I outlined. Christ, I know PB loves pedantry, but the concept of a disproportionate response is hard to grasp?
Unless you are seriously 'agreeing' that it is acceptable to punch someone for standing on your toe (not stamping on a foot). Because, again, that is what I said. I did not say it is unacceptable to respond to a significant assault.
If I were Field I'd stay clear of both Boris and Hunt tomorrow - neither would have wanted this to be the story they get pressed on on the first day of their campaign.
One possible misconception Twitter may be operating under is that there is widespread support for disruption caused by climate change protestors....
The Green Party just had their best ever result in a national election.
If I were Field I'd stay clear of both Boris and Hunt tomorrow - neither would have wanted this to be the story they get pressed on on the first day of their campaign.
One possible misconception Twitter may be operating under is that there is widespread support for disruption caused by climate change protestors....
Oh, I imagine plenty will be very annoyed at that. Well meaning as many of them often are these protestors can be self righteous and bloody irritating, disruptive just for the sake of publicity and so self satisfied about their own moral superiority. Or so they are viewed by plenty, including me in my more unfair moments.
I don't think that will save him. Two wrongs don't make a right. To use a favoured expression of mine, if I deliberately stand on your toe that makes me a dick and inthe wrong, but it doesn't mean you will be ok to punch me in the face in response.
Yes, he frogmarched her out, and he can try to play up the disruption justifying it. But the optics of it. He'd definitely sacked, he may well be charged with something, and the leadership contenders will be desperate for the story to move on.
Without getting involved in this case, if someone deliberately stamps on your foot I think that does justify you punching them. If you're under physical assault I think hitting someone back is perfectly justified.
This post explains so much about your position on Brexit.
I don't think that will save him. Two wrongs don't make a right. To use a favoured expression of mine, if I deliberately stand on your toe that makes me a dick and inthe wrong, but it doesn't mean you will be ok to punch me in the face in response
Without getting involved in this case, if someone deliberately stamps on your foot I think that does justify you punching them. If you're under physical assault I think hitting someone back is perfectly justified.
Agreed.
Except that was not the scenario I outlined. Christ, I know PB loves pedantry, but the concept of a disproportionate response is hard to grasp?
Unless you are seriously 'agreeing' that it is acceptable to punch someone for standing on your toe (not stamping on a foot).
You were right first time. Thompson is wrong. By his own experience, such a response is disproportionate.
I solemnly predict Mark Field will have to resign as minister and MP.
Which means a fascinating by-election. His constituency is heavily pro-Remain, BUT Boris will be leader, and London Likes Bories (or it did). Very hard to call.
He won't resign as an MP. Not sure about minister.
Agreed.
Suspect after initial outrage from the climate change/left lobby the court of public opinion will probably swing against the woman who seems to be an intruder.
Have you watched the 21 second version of the footage? It would be an excellent test for psychopathy to show it to the patient and ask where his sympathies lie. And I say that as a Tory of the restore hunting and abolish death duties school.
These really do feel like the dying days of government. It's just bad news after bad news.
Is this was the last days of the Major government felt like?
Maybe, but as Boris will be the best Tory PM since Thatcher it will not be for long.
A better comparison is the last days of the Neville Chamberlain government before Winston came in
Churchill was forced on an unwilling Tory party by the Leader of the opposition as Labour were unwilling to support the Tory choice.
Boris has been forced on an unwilling Tory Party by Nigel Farage, the winner of the European elections.
Boris will fight Farage as much as Churchill fought Attlee once he got the job, even if they are and were united on one aim initially, delivering Brexit and defeating Hitler
IN 1940 it was a Conservative, Labour, Liberal coalition government that insisted on Churchill. Boris has barely 51% support within his own party, and zero from other parties.
It was not the Tory MPs that insisted on Churchill until the end they backed Chamberlain much as current Tories backed May until no alternative and Labour was fiercely anti Churchill on domestic policy, Boris has overwhelming support from most of his party's voters though and indeed from Brexit Party voters too and Leavers who made up 52% of the voters in 2016.
If May is Chamberlain and Hunt is Halifax then Boris is Churchill and of course given Corbyn technically still backs Brexit on that aim at least he is allied with Boris as Attlee was with Churchill on beating Hitler, whatever their domestic disagreements.
I solemnly predict Mark Field will have to resign as minister and MP.
Which means a fascinating by-election. His constituency is heavily pro-Remain, BUT Boris will be leader, and London Likes Bories (or it did). Very hard to call.
He won't resign as an MP. Not sure about minister.
Definite resignation as minister. Expect it tomorrow. As MP? Depends if he is charged. I think he will be charged (the climate changers will want the publicity) so he will go.
I solemnly predict Mark Field will have to resign as minister and MP.
Which means a fascinating by-election. His constituency is heavily pro-Remain, BUT Boris will be leader, and London Likes Bories (or it did). Very hard to call.
He won't resign as an MP. Not sure about minister.
Definite resignation as minister. Expect it tomorrow. As MP? Depends if he is charged. I think he will be charged (the climate changers will want the publicity) so he will go.
He's entitled to defend himself in court. As were Onasunya and Davies.
I solemnly predict Mark Field will have to resign as minister and MP.
Which means a fascinating by-election. His constituency is heavily pro-Remain, BUT Boris will be leader, and London Likes Bories (or it did). Very hard to call.
He won't resign as an MP. Not sure about minister.
Agreed.
Suspect after initial outrage from the climate change/left lobby the court of public opinion will probably swing against the woman who seems to be an intruder.
Nothing is impossible. But for one it won't just be outrage from the left, and there will be immense pressure from our prospective PMs to be unequivocal in comdemnation. They'll want that to be their first act in the leadership campaign? Arguing the nuances of a proportionate response when frogmarching protestors out of a venue?
If I were Field I'd stay clear of both Boris and Hunt tomorrow - neither would have wanted this to be the story they get pressed on on the first day of their campaign.
One possible misconception Twitter may be operating under is that there is widespread support for disruption caused by climate change protestors....
The Green Party just had their best ever result in a national election.
Yes. Regardless of the rights, wrongs and nuances. A bunch of already fabulously wealthy people scoffing and quaffing in penguin suits on someone else's dime, are so put out to be interrupted they react heavy handedly to people trying to publicise a cause which many have sympathy with. It is a gift.
I should think he will stay on as an MP. The Tories don't want another by-election just yet, they don't know if they can recover their polling. So probably he'll have the whip withdrawn in the first instance while it is looked into, and if he is not charged, or he defends himself successfully, he'll be let back in?
I solemnly predict Mark Field will have to resign as minister and MP.
Which means a fascinating by-election. His constituency is heavily pro-Remain, BUT Boris will be leader, and London Likes Bories (or it did). Very hard to call.
He won't resign as an MP. Not sure about minister.
Definite resignation as minister. Expect it tomorrow. As MP? Depends if he is charged. I think he will be charged (the climate changers will want the publicity) so he will go.
He's entitled to defend himself in court.
Yes. Of course. But the Twitter judiciary are less lenient (and social media is where politics is done, these days). He's being lynched. Perhaps he deserves it. Dunno.
Mark Field was a Hunt backer, and works for him in the FCO. We can already see that elements of the Tory support will not be keen to see him overly punished for his actions. But there's surely no way Hunt does not disavow him?
Comments
Nowt looks better than a tuxedo clad bloke manhandling a woman while the rest just sit there filling their faces.
Great optics Mr Field.
Small majority in remainer central. Former Tory heartland, and locals not punishing new candidates for old candidate scandals, it still looks hard to retain.
Even if Field was heavy handed the more serious questions should be where on earth and what on earth were the security at this dinner doing to allow her anywhere near the banqueting hall?
This is absurd. We will only get Reconciliation on Brexit when both sides tell the Truth. And the truth is the europhiles lied to the people for decades, because they knew the British people would never tolerate the truth of European integration. The Brexiteers have told their own lies in return, but all parties are deeply at fault. Brexit springs from a total failure of the governing classes, Left to Right.
It is futile and pernicious to argue otherwise.
Since BoJo thinks he will get a massive majority anyway, there's really no incentive for him to not throw Field to the wolves.
Is this was the last days of the Major government felt like?
A better comparison is the last days of the Neville Chamberlain government before Winston came in
Yet plenty on PB apparently were......
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1141822257007910912
Having blokes with machine guns and heavy handed security would kind of kill the vibe.
It might be reborn after a Boris GE victory.
But if so the Conservatives need a mass clear out of MPs.
She was breaking and entering. No doubt he will be sacked by May, but would have been sacked by Boris anyway so doesn't really make much difference.
For all those saying she doesn't pose a risk - why take the risk? Who knows what any individual protester has concealed.
Give it up. He is toast.
Which one of them was supposed to be at the event, and which one was intruding?
From memory, there were a lot of dreary sex scandals, some minor incompetence and a sense that they had run out of steam.
It wasn't like this.
Boris in terms of enthusiasm and energy and belief and communication skills is already up there with Churchill and Thatcher even if his premiership does not quite reach their heights, he also has the self belief they had and to be fair Macmillan and Cameron and Baldwin had too, the best Tory leaders of the last 100 years
Farage would be an unmitigated disaster if he ever actually had to do anything but criticise everyone else. he'd be found out in weeks if not days.
One possible misconception Twitter may be operating under is that there is widespread support for disruption caused by climate change protestors....
She’s walking past , not shouting not doing anything remotely threatening . And then Mark Field grabs her by the neck after he’s pushed her against the pillar .
I expect he’ll apologize profusely , say he had drunk a bit too much . Much depends on whether she presses charges . If she does I think he’s toast .
A United, dynamic opposition providing a forensic critique, and looking every inch a government in waiting...er, hang on a minute.
Moreover, whatever he says, it looks truly terrible. Why didn't he just bar her way? Why attack her? Was he drunk?
He's home and hosed.
Get some sleep.
Then watch the tape again in the morning.
Boris will fight Farage as much as Churchill fought Attlee once he got the job, even if they are and were united on one aim initially, delivering Brexit and defeating Hitler
Of course if it was a visiting Head of State it certainly would have been
I don't think that will save him. Two wrongs don't make a right. To use a favoured expression of mine, if I deliberately stand on your toe that makes me a dick and inthe wrong, but it doesn't mean you will be ok to punch me in the face in response.
Yes, he frogmarched her out, and he can try to play up the disruption justifying it. But the optics of it. He's definitely sacked, he may well be charged with something, and the leadership contenders will be desperate for the story to move on. 'She started it by protesting' is not a great defence.
https://twitter.com/flat__stanley/status/1141834205976047616
Might as well quit tomorrow as the Brecon news comes in, that way the by-election writs can be moved together.
Con 318
LD 179
Ind 167
Lab 141
Ind 60
UKIP 40
Con gain from Ind
Neath -Pelenna (I
Ind 251
Plaid 120
Ind 105
Lab 43
LD 6
Ind hold
Of course Churchill was then defeated in 1945 after achieving that but returned after winning the 1951 election for a further 4 years at No 10
Lab 1811
LD 887
Con 681
Greens 318
Lab hold
Which means a fascinating by-election. His constituency is heavily pro-Remain, BUT Boris will be leader, and London Likes Bories (or it did). Very hard to call.
A bad day for PBers!
Suspect after initial outrage from the climate change/left lobby the court of public opinion will probably swing against the woman who seems to be an intruder.
I've really revised my opinion on Major in this current omnishambles. Quite nostalgic for the early/mid 1990s*
*may be due to the fact that I was in my early 20s then.
Lab 802
Cob 654
Greens 254
LD 173
UKIP 148
Lab gain from Con
I had not heard about Justin. Good grief.
The unlikelihood of the scenario was hardly the point, and I'm certainly not making the argument that if it was an actual assault a retaliation would not be justified, so why argue a point no one is contesting?
If it makes it easier for you, focus on the abstract point - that even if the initial action from party a is wrong, party b can be even more in the wrong through a disproportionate response.
Con 536
Con 497
Lab 246
Lab 171
LD 114
LD 91
2xCon holds
Unless you are seriously 'agreeing' that it is acceptable to punch someone for standing on your toe (not stamping on a foot). Because, again, that is what I said. I did not say it is unacceptable to respond to a significant assault.
He’s likely to be out of a job soon but getting a no deal through parliament is likely to cause more Tory drama .
And then the icing on the cake will be when Bercow allows an emergency debate to include a motion to suspend the standing orders of the house .
If May is Chamberlain and Hunt is Halifax then Boris is Churchill and of course given Corbyn technically still backs Brexit on that aim at least he is allied with Boris as Attlee was with Churchill on beating Hitler, whatever their domestic disagreements.
It is a gift.