"Huge congrats to Boris"! Gritted teeth doesn't begin to describe it.
Gove should take a very large amount of responsibility for where we are today with Brexit. If he'd not knifed Boris in 2016, we might well have been spared May - and discovered three years earlier what Boris is truly made of.
Gove, you pillock. And for what?
I sort of agree. I have always felt that it was a grave mistake for any remainers to get involved with trying to deliver Brexit. None of them should have stood when Cameron went. It has taken 3 miserable years to finally put a leaver in the position where he needs to actually deliver what the referendum promised (Assuming of course that Johnson does win!).
I'm now near-as-dammit evens on Boris and £270-odd up if it's Hunt. That fiver on Leadsom seems a bit foolish in retrospect given I don't do the exchanges and thus can't trade out.
I'm waiting for Boris's interview with Brillo before I top up on him.
I think we're already seeing signs of how Borisphobes will justify staying within the fold. It's like watching Labour moderates under Corbyn. Hopefully he will be a better leader than Corbyn.
He will be.
Take Brexit out of the equation, take his clownish persona out of the equation, politically he is a very moderate MP. He is far closer to Osborne/Cameron than the extremist he gets painted as or that Corbyn really is.
There is a lot of truth in that, but Brexit has shown he doesnt care whether he is arguing what he believes, he will argue for whatever is most likely to give him power. Given a fair proportion of his backers are pretty extreme, that may end up being the path he takes. Maybe he pivots back to the centre, maybe he tacks to the right, I dont think anyone really knows what he will do, including himself.
I struggle to see how that approach can be a good path for the country but maybe we will get lucky.
He doesn't need more power now though. He will be PM and on the clock. If he prevaricates he will lose it.
The countries and Boris's interests will be 100% aligned. Make a success of this.
Being PM is about deciding which parts of the countries interests to prioritise over other parts. As with Brexit in the real world choices have to be made, it is not about making a success of things and thinking positively.
I've just looked at Jeremy Hunt online (not sich a big fan now, tbh, but whatevs) and I can't get over how much he comes across as that guy from Vicar of Dibley/Four Weddings and a Funeral
I think we're already seeing signs of how Borisphobes will justify staying within the fold. It's like watching Labour moderates under Corbyn. Hopefully he will be a better leader than Corbyn.
He will be.
Take Brexit out of the equation, take his clownish persona out of the equation, politically he is a very moderate MP. He is far closer to Osborne/Cameron than the extremist he gets painted as or that Corbyn really is.
There is a lot of truth in that, but Brexit has shown he doesnt care whether he is arguing what he believes, he will argue for whatever is most likely to give him power. Given a fair proportion of his backers are pretty extreme, that may end up being the path he takes. Maybe he pivots back to the centre, maybe he tacks to the right, I dont think anyone really knows what he will do, including himself.
I struggle to see how that approach can be a good path for the country but maybe we will get lucky.
He doesn't need more power now though. He will be PM and on the clock. If he prevaricates he will lose it.
The countries and Boris's interests will be 100% aligned. Make a success of this.
Being PM is about deciding which parts of the countries interests to prioritise over other parts. As with Brexit in the real world choices have to be made, it is not about making a success of things and thinking positively.
As an example I would not be at all surprised if Boris seeks changes to the WA that give us political cover on the backstop in exchange for further economic advantage to the EU over the UK. Now I understand that is probably a positive from your perspective focused on sovereignty but for those of us reliant on a strong economy for our future income it is clearly negative.
My best result is if this current contest is called off and restarted, without Betfair voiding the market, and then the Saj magically re-enters the race, wins and then JRM somehow becomes PM. Then I'm up over £4k.
I think we're already seeing signs of how Borisphobes will justify staying within the fold. It's like watching Labour moderates under Corbyn. Hopefully he will be a better leader than Corbyn.
He will be.
Take Brexit out of the equation, take his clownish persona out of the equation, politically he is a very moderate MP. He is far closer to Osborne/Cameron than the extremist he gets painted as or that Corbyn really is.
There is a lot of truth in that, but Brexit has shown he doesnt care whether he is arguing what he believes, he will argue for whatever is most likely to give him power. Given a fair proportion of his backers are pretty extreme, that may end up being the path he takes. Maybe he pivots back to the centre, maybe he tacks to the right, I dont think anyone really knows what he will do, including himself.
I struggle to see how that approach can be a good path for the country but maybe we will get lucky.
He doesn't need more power now though. He will be PM and on the clock. If he prevaricates he will lose it.
The countries and Boris's interests will be 100% aligned. Make a success of this.
Being PM is about deciding which parts of the countries interests to prioritise over other parts. As with Brexit in the real world choices have to be made, it is not about making a success of things and thinking positively.
Well exactly that was my point. He doesn't need to climb the greasy pole he needs to do the job well. Britain will be better for it if he does.
I thought tigers’ preferred manner of taking down prey involved going for the neck ?
I am trying to think of the upside of a tweet like that. Nope, there isn’t any. Foolish by Rory whatever he thinks.
He's got high on the supply of his own fan base.
But people file these things and bring them out when they cause damage to the maker or their party. It is burning bridges in a self indulgent way. He is supposed to be the grown up. He’s behaving like a spoiled brat.
Bryan Gould would have been an interesting leader for Labour, and if had won would have prevented Blair getting the opportunity. I always liked his style and politics, but with his sane Euroscepticism (he resigned from John Smiths front bench over Maastricht) would have taken Labour in a very different direction. He would have won in 97, but not the same landslide.
Bryan got just 9%. That effectively ended his career. Will Hunt top that?
He went back to NZ and made a difference didn’t he? Ended political career, yes but arguably did more good.
The point is that Hunt needs to tread carefully. A heavy defeat could be crtically damaging.
Maybe Hunt will surprise and land some serious punches?
Or has someone been saving up release of a real scandal on Boris until now, the moment of truth....?
Now that a "remainer" has been engineered into the second slot I think the membership will vote for Johnson whatever comes out now.
We actually need a Brexiteer to take charge now, if Hunt were to win we would be right back to the May situation and all the leavers will just blame everything on Hunt really being a remainer.
Although I can't see how he will do it I find myself in the odd situation of actually wanting Johnson to to get Brexit sorted successfully because if he doesn't we end up with a Corbyn government and I think that needs to be avoided at all costs.
A shame the two guys who actually believed in Brexit are both eliminated, then?
David Davis being backed at 1.01 was a palp clearly.
Not on Betfair exchange it isn't.
Sure but the person who backed that side of the bet surely knows they did the wrong thing.
Got the back and lay mixed up I fear...
I'm almost certain there is money to be made monitoring these kind of big nebulous markets which may have more runner saddled over time to spot when a new runner is added and immediately lay them at 1.01. I think other bots might well be easily tricked into taking those odds to balance up their book.
Bryan Gould would have been an interesting leader for Labour, and if had won would have prevented Blair getting the opportunity. I always liked his style and politics, but with his sane Euroscepticism (he resigned from John Smiths front bench over Maastricht) would have taken Labour in a very different direction. He would have won in 97, but not the same landslide.
Bryan got just 9%. That effectively ended his career. Will Hunt top that?
He went back to NZ and made a difference didn’t he? Ended political career, yes but arguably did more good.
The point is that Hunt needs to tread carefully. A heavy defeat could be crtically damaging.
Maybe Hunt will surprise and land some serious punches?
Or has someone been saving up release of a real scandal on Boris until now, the moment of truth....?
Now that a "remainer" has been engineered into the second slot I think the membership will vote for Johnson whatever comes out now.
We actually need a Brexiteer to take charge now, if Hunt were to win we would be right back to the May situation and all the leavers will just blame everything on Hunt really being a remainer.
Although I can't see how he will do it I find myself in the odd situation of actually wanting Johnson to to get Brexit sorted successfully because if he doesn't we end up with a Corbyn government and I think that needs to be avoided at all costs.
A shame the two guys who actually believed in Brexit are both eliminated, then?
I thought tigers’ preferred manner of taking down prey involved going for the neck ?
I am trying to think of the upside of a tweet like that. Nope, there isn’t any. Foolish by Rory whatever he thinks.
He's got high on the supply of his own fan base.
Perhaps the opposite.
Politics has changed. The rise of Farage and the BXP, Trump's presidency and others - yet along Boris - show that the old way of doing politics is dead. Get yourself in the media, on the Internet. Develop a gang of supporters. Say something - anything to get to would-be supporters - and defend it in whichever way seems best - or don't even bother defending it, for your supporters will.
This will be Hunt's undoing as much as anything.
I don't like this new form of politics - it's ugly. I'd hope Stewart doesn't tack that way. But I do find some appeal in his platform.
My best result is if this current contest is called off and restarted, without Betfair voiding the market, and then the Saj magically re-enters the race, wins and then JRM somehow becomes PM. Then I'm up over £4k.
I thought tigers’ preferred manner of taking down prey involved going for the neck ?
I am trying to think of the upside of a tweet like that. Nope, there isn’t any. Foolish by Rory whatever he thinks.
He's got high on the supply of his own fan base.
But people file these things and bring them out when they cause damage to the maker or their party. It is burning bridges in a self indulgent way. He is supposed to be the grown up. He’s behaving like a spoiled brat.
I don't understand what Pullman is trying to say anyway, it reads like the output of an AI which has been programmed to produce witty tweets and is sort of getting there but just not yet ready for prime time.
"Huge congrats to Boris"! Gritted teeth doesn't begin to describe it.
Gove should take a very large amount of responsibility for where we are today with Brexit. If he'd not knifed Boris in 2016, we might well have been spared May - and discovered three years earlier what Boris is truly made of.
Gove, you pillock. And for what?
I sort of agree. I have always felt that it was a grave mistake for any remainers to get involved with trying to deliver Brexit. None of them should have stood when Cameron went. It has taken 3 miserable years to finally put a leaver in the position where he needs to actually deliver what the referendum promised (Assuming of course that Johnson does win!).
I disagree. If May had gone for a Purple Brexit instead of a Blue Brexit, we'd be out of the EU by now.
So Hunt stands between the Tories and Fuck Business.
Boris stands between the Tories and the Brexit Party becoming the main party of the Right, see how big business likes Corbyn PM and Farage Leader of the Opposition
I thought tigers’ preferred manner of taking down prey involved going for the neck ?
I am trying to think of the upside of a tweet like that. Nope, there isn’t any. Foolish by Rory whatever he thinks.
He's got high on the supply of his own fan base.
But people file these things and bring them out when they cause damage to the maker or their party. It is burning bridges in a self indulgent way. He is supposed to be the grown up. He’s behaving like a spoiled brat.
I don't understand what Pullman is trying to say anyway, it reads like the output of an AI which has been programmed to produce witty tweets and is sort of getting there but just not yet ready for prime time.
I think what he's saying is that a good QC will not just beat an opponent he doesn't like, he will eviscerate that opponent with arguments in a way that will cause the opponent utter embarrassment.
Whereas 'statesmanlike' infers a more gentle approach. But that might be wrong, as I'm neither a QC nor a statesman. Thank God...
I thought tigers’ preferred manner of taking down prey involved going for the neck ?
I am trying to think of the upside of a tweet like that. Nope, there isn’t any. Foolish by Rory whatever he thinks.
He's got high on the supply of his own fan base.
Perhaps the opposite.
Politics has changed. The rise of Farage and the BXP, Trump's presidency and others - yet along Boris - show that the old way of doing politics is dead. Get yourself in the media, on the Internet. Develop a gang of supporters. Say something - anything to get to would-be supporters - and defend it in whichever way seems best - or don't even bother defending it, for your supporters will.
This will be Hunt's undoing as much as anything.
I don't like this new form of politics - it's ugly. I'd hope Stewart doesn't tack that way. But I do find some appeal in his platform.
And with that, good night everyone.
To an extent social media just reflects what has always been the case, the more charismatic candidates have more followers and tend to win.
That does not exclude more centrist candidates either, Obama, Trudeau, Stewart, Macron etc have all had big social media followings but they all have charisma. Hunt to be blunt does not, like Mitt Romney he has an excellent CV on paper and executive experience but that does not translate to campaigning ability or charisma.
Hunt has 170 000 twitter followers, Boris has 600,000, Rory now has 188 000.
I thought tigers’ preferred manner of taking down prey involved going for the neck ?
I am trying to think of the upside of a tweet like that. Nope, there isn’t any. Foolish by Rory whatever he thinks.
He's got high on the supply of his own fan base.
But people file these things and bring them out when they cause damage to the maker or their party. It is burning bridges in a self indulgent way. He is supposed to be the grown up. He’s behaving like a spoiled brat.
I don't understand what Pullman is trying to say anyway, it reads like the output of an AI which has been programmed to produce witty tweets and is sort of getting there but just not yet ready for prime time.
I think what he's saying is that a good QC will not just beat an opponent he doesn't like, he will eviscerate that opponent with arguments in a way that will cause the opponent utter embarrassment.
Whereas 'statesmanlike' infers a more gentle approach. But that might be wrong, as I'm neither a QC nor a statesman. Thank God...
The most negative rating is given to Heath who arguably led his party to the most significant victory in June 1970 ending the first Wilson government. This was the only occasion in modern times when a party with a workable majority was replaced by another with a workable majority.
Its not had big your majority is, its what you do with it what counts
I don't think the Heath government is looked upon fondly by many Conservatives.
So Hunt stands between the Tories and Fuck Business.
Hunt is a low down, filthy remainer, he does not believe in Brexit enough, so might as well be a LD probably, and businesses might as well be too, they don't all adore Brexit, traitors the lot of them too.
The most negative rating is given to Heath who arguably led his party to the most significant victory in June 1970 ending the first Wilson government. This was the only occasion in modern times when a party with a workable majority was replaced by another with a workable majority.
Its not had big your majority is, its what you do with it what counts
I don't think the Heath government is looked upon fondly by many Conservatives.
From what they talk about I am pretty sure there were no Conservative (or Conservative led) governments between the end of WW2 and 1979, and then none since 1990. Briefly we have had Conservative surges when people vote UKIP or BXP, since thatis more Conservative than Conservative after all.
What is success? If it’s us leaving the EU then that, is my mind failure. Success for whom, those wanting middle income tax cuts? Or is it saving the Tory party?
The EU (like the British state) only deserves to exist if it benefits its citizens.
If Boris Johnson is able to make a success of the UK outside the EU, then everyone should be cheering.
Now, the big question is whether he can. And we shall see.
For the UK to leave the EU would be an act of self-denial in the pursuit of a lie.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, the debt is paid."
Bryan Gould would have been an interesting leader for Labour, and if had won would have prevented Blair getting the opportunity. I always liked his style and politics, but with his sane Euroscepticism (he resigned from John Smiths front bench over Maastricht) would have taken Labour in a very different direction. He would have won in 97, but not the same landslide.
Bryan got just 9%. That effectively ended his career. Will Hunt top that?
He went back to NZ and made a difference didn’t he? Ended political career, yes but arguably did more good.
The point is that Hunt needs to tread carefully. A heavy defeat could be crtically damaging.
Maybe Hunt will surprise and land some serious punches?
Or has someone been saving up release of a real scandal on Boris until now, the moment of truth....?
Now that a "remainer" has been engineered into the second slot I think the membership will vote for Johnson whatever comes out now.
We actually need a Brexiteer to take charge now, if Hunt were to win we would be right back to the May situation and all the leavers will just blame everything on Hunt really being a remainer.
Although I can't see how he will do it I find myself in the odd situation of actually wanting Johnson to to get Brexit sorted successfully because if he doesn't we end up with a Corbyn government and I think that needs to be avoided at all costs.
1. BJ is now a shoo-in. There's nothing he could say or do to prevent that. In that respect (and perhaps others) he's an English Trump. This is a relief in a way since it now means we can all have a holiday from politics till the 22nd of July. (Though perhaps not a holiday from betting.)
2. You say that if Hunt wins we'll be right back to the May situation. In fact whoever wins we'll be right back to the May situation. BJ hasn't said anything that May didn't say over and over, and I'm sceptical that he'll find any new means of escaping the impasse. It seems Farage agrees with me, and he's the leader that most Brexiters really want.
I thought tigers’ preferred manner of taking down prey involved going for the neck ?
I am trying to think of the upside of a tweet like that. Nope, there isn’t any. Foolish by Rory whatever he thinks.
He's got high on the supply of his own fan base.
But people file these things and bring them out when they cause damage to the maker or their party. It is burning bridges in a self indulgent way. He is supposed to be the grown up. He’s behaving like a spoiled brat.
I don't understand what Pullman is trying to say anyway, it reads like the output of an AI which has been programmed to produce witty tweets and is sort of getting there but just not yet ready for prime time.
He should be spending his time on the next Dark Materials novel but I think that he is suggesting that Stewart should have learned how to cross examine effectively. Not that the format allowed for that of course.
I thought tigers’ preferred manner of taking down prey involved going for the neck ?
I am trying to think of the upside of a tweet like that. Nope, there isn’t any. Foolish by Rory whatever he thinks.
He's got high on the supply of his own fan base.
Perhaps the opposite.
Politics has changed. The rise of Farage and the BXP, Trump's presidency and others - yet along Boris - show that the old way of doing politics is dead. Get yourself in the media, on the Internet. Develop a gang of supporters. Say something - anything to get to would-be supporters - and defend it in whichever way seems best - or don't even bother defending it, for your supporters will.
This will be Hunt's undoing as much as anything.
I don't like this new form of politics - it's ugly. I'd hope Stewart doesn't tack that way. But I do find some appeal in his platform.
And with that, good night everyone.
To an extent social media just reflects what has always been the case, the more charismatic candidates have more followers and tend to win.
That does not exclude more centrist candidates either, Obama, Trudeau, Stewart, Macron etc have all had big social media followings but they all have charisma. Hunt to be blunt does not, like Mitt Romney he has an excellent CV on paper and executive experience but that does not translate to campaigning ability or charisma.
Hunt has 170 000 twitter followers, Boris has 600,000, Rory now has 188 000.
IMO the Internet and social media magnifies it massively. In the old days you had to get past the gatekeepers of the media to get your message out: the newspaper editors and TV execs, and the amount of time and space you could get was limited. The Internet and social media removes almost all those barriers.
What is success? If it’s us leaving the EU then that, is my mind failure. Success for whom, those wanting middle income tax cuts? Or is it saving the Tory party?
The EU (like the British state) only deserves to exist if it benefits its citizens.
If Boris Johnson is able to make a success of the UK outside the EU, then everyone should be cheering.
Now, the big question is whether he can. And we shall see.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, the debt is paid."
Brilliant series.
Looks like the Russian version will be incurring more debts:
Russian state TV is working on its own version of Chernobyl, a series based on the worst nuclear accident in history. The NTV drama will deviate from the acclaimed HBO series - and from historical reality - by claiming that the CIA was involved in the disaster.
The most negative rating is given to Heath who arguably led his party to the most significant victory in June 1970 ending the first Wilson government. This was the only occasion in modern times when a party with a workable majority was replaced by another with a workable majority.
Its not had big your majority is, its what you do with it what counts
I don't think the Heath government is looked upon fondly by many Conservatives.
Boom and bust, losing to unions, rampant inflation, currency crises, what’s to like? The EEC was only significant in retrospect. It was stunningly incompetent.
The most negative rating is given to Heath who arguably led his party to the most significant victory in June 1970 ending the first Wilson government. This was the only occasion in modern times when a party with a workable majority was replaced by another with a workable majority.
Its not had big your majority is, its what you do with it what counts
I don't think the Heath government is looked upon fondly by many Conservatives.
From what they talk about I am pretty sure there were no Conservative (or Conservative led) governments between the end of WW2 and 1979, and then none since 1990. Briefly we have had Conservative surges when people vote UKIP or BXP, since thatis more Conservative than Conservative after all.
Churchill was certainly a Conservative as was Home, along with Thatcher, even if you consider Eden and Macmillan and Heath and Major and Cameron a bit too wet
The most negative rating is given to Heath who arguably led his party to the most significant victory in June 1970 ending the first Wilson government. This was the only occasion in modern times when a party with a workable majority was replaced by another with a workable majority.
Its not how big your majority is, its what you do with it what counts
I don't think the Heath government is looked upon fondly by many Conservatives.
Boom and bust, losing to unions, rampant inflation, currency crises, what’s to like? The EEC was only significant in retrospect. It was stunningly incompetent.
I thought tigers’ preferred manner of taking down prey involved going for the neck ?
I am trying to think of the upside of a tweet like that. Nope, there isn’t any. Foolish by Rory whatever he thinks.
He's got high on the supply of his own fan base.
Perhaps the opposite.
Politics has changed. The rise of Farage and the BXP, Trump's presidency and others - yet along Boris - show that the old way of doing politics is dead. Get yourself in the media, on the Internet. Develop a gang of supporters. Say something - anything to get to would-be supporters - and defend it in whichever way seems best - or don't even bother defending it, for your supporters will.
This will be Hunt's undoing as much as anything.
I don't like this new form of politics - it's ugly. I'd hope Stewart doesn't tack that way. But I do find some appeal in his platform.
And with that, good night everyone.
To an extent social media just reflects what has always been the case, the more charismatic candidates have more followers and tend to win.
That does not exclude more centrist candidates either, Obama, Trudeau, Stewart, Macron etc have all had big social media followings but they all have charisma. Hunt to be blunt does not, like Mitt Romney he has an excellent CV on paper and executive experience but that does not translate to campaigning ability or charisma.
Hunt has 170 000 twitter followers, Boris has 600,000, Rory now has 188 000.
IMO the Internet and social media magnifies it massively. In the old days you had to get past the gatekeepers of the media to get your message out: the newspaper editors and TV execs, and the amount of time and space you could get was limited. The Internet and social media removes almost all those barriers.
This has positives and negatives.
Maybe but of course TV also magnified charisma and ability to appeal to the masses, as has been the case since JFK beat Nixon in the first televised debate
IMO the Internet and social media magnifies it massively. In the old days you had to get past the gatekeepers of the media to get your message out: the newspaper editors and TV execs, and the amount of time and space you could get was limited. The Internet and social media removes almost all those barriers.
This has positives and negatives.
I semi-seriously think that Social Media is the worst invention since the Atomic Bomb.
The world I grew up in was one where your knowledge of what was going on in the world came from Fleet Street, the BBC, ITV, and that was just about it. Even ITV back then was a serious channel at times, with good news and documentaries.
That is so different from the modern world where people are bombarded by lies, nonense, and outright disinformation at times. And if people want to they can find sources that will confirm their beliefs no matter how absurd they are.
I don't know if democracy and government as we have known it can be sustained in such an environment.
The most negative rating is given to Heath who arguably led his party to the most significant victory in June 1970 ending the first Wilson government. This was the only occasion in modern times when a party with a workable majority was replaced by another with a workable majority.
Its not how big your majority is, its what you do with it what counts
I don't think the Heath government is looked upon fondly by many Conservatives.
Boom and bust, losing to unions, rampant inflation, currency crises, what’s to like? The EEC was only significant in retrospect. It was stunningly incompetent.
Don't forget Northern Ireland.
And the 3 day week. I remember coming home from school for a cold tea in a cold house. (Mainly because mum forgot we had a gas cooker but that’s another story).
The most negative rating is given to Heath who arguably led his party to the most significant victory in June 1970 ending the first Wilson government. This was the only occasion in modern times when a party with a workable majority was replaced by another with a workable majority.
Its not how big your majority is, its what you do with it what counts
I don't think the Heath government is looked upon fondly by many Conservatives.
Boom and bust, losing to unions, rampant inflation, currency crises, what’s to like? The EEC was only significant in retrospect. It was stunningly incompetent.
Don't forget Northern Ireland.
1970 was the last UK election where the UUP took the Tory whip.
What is success? If it’s us leaving the EU then that, is my mind failure. Success for whom, those wanting middle income tax cuts? Or is it saving the Tory party?
The EU (like the British state) only deserves to exist if it benefits its citizens.
If Boris Johnson is able to make a success of the UK outside the EU, then everyone should be cheering.
Now, the big question is whether he can. And we shall see.
For the UK to leave the EU would be an act of self-denial in the pursuit of a lie.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, the debt is paid."
And, of course, that excellent quote (from a truly brilliant TV series) applies most - and more aptly than anywhere else - to elite British europhiles, 1973-2016. At every juncture, they told lie after lie. "No loss of sovereignty", "a tidying up exercise", "Lisbon is different to the constitution". And everyone's favourite "We solemnly promise you a referendu... ooh, wait, we've been elected, fuck off, you're not getting a vote"
Slowly. over time, the lies and lies and lies incurred an enormous debt to the truth. That debt was paid, including interest, with Brexit.
The UK's membership of the EU = the Soviet nuclear energy industry. Discuss.
The most negative rating is given to Heath who arguably led his party to the most significant victory in June 1970 ending the first Wilson government. This was the only occasion in modern times when a party with a workable majority was replaced by another with a workable majority.
Its not how big your majority is, its what you do with it what counts
I don't think the Heath government is looked upon fondly by many Conservatives.
From what they talk about I am pretty sure there were no Conservative (or Conservative led) governments between the end of WW2 and 1979, and then none since 1990. Briefly we have had Conservative surges when people vote UKIP or BXP, since thatis more Conservative than Conservative after all.
An irony being that much of what Thatcher is either worshiped or hated for turns out to be somewhat different to what actually happened.
IMO the Internet and social media magnifies it massively. In the old days you had to get past the gatekeepers of the media to get your message out: the newspaper editors and TV execs, and the amount of time and space you could get was limited. The Internet and social media removes almost all those barriers.
This has positives and negatives.
I semi-seriously think that Social Media is the worst invention since the Atomic Bomb.
The world I grew up in was one where your knowledge of what was going on in the world came from Fleet Street, the BBC, ITV, and that was just about it. Even ITV back then was a serious channel at times, with good news and documentaries.
That is so different from the modern world where people are bombarded by lies, nonense, and outright disinformation at times. And if people want to they can find sources that will confirm their beliefs no matter how absurd they are.
I don't know if democracy and government as we have known it can be sustained in such an environment.
You also have access to more information and facts at your fingertips via the internet then any library could contain so it works both ways
Looks like Mark Field MP could be in big trouble .
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
Just seen it. Yep. Pretty dreadful....
His only defense might be that she looked menacing and dangerous - but she just doesn't. Perhappenchance he will resign.
What did he do?
Grabbed a climate change protestor - an apparently unthreathening woman - by the throat and slammed her against a pillar. Awful optics, whatever his explanation.
The most negative rating is given to Heath who arguably led his party to the most significant victory in June 1970 ending the first Wilson government. This was the only occasion in modern times when a party with a workable majority was replaced by another with a workable majority.
Its not how big your majority is, its what you do with it what counts
I don't think the Heath government is looked upon fondly by many Conservatives.
From what they talk about I am pretty sure there were no Conservative (or Conservative led) governments between the end of WW2 and 1979, and then none since 1990. Briefly we have had Conservative surges when people vote UKIP or BXP, since thatis more Conservative than Conservative after all.
An irony being that much of what Thatcher is either worshiped or hated for turns out to be somewhat different to what actually happened.
Speaking of which I've just come across this titbit:
Note: Between 1973-4 and 1983-4 an investment income surcharge of 15% was applied to unearned income over £2,000 (between 1973-4 and 1977-8), £2,250 (1978-9), £5,000 (1979-80), £5,500 (between 1980-1 and 1981-2), £6,250 (1982-3) and £7,100 (1983-4).
I knew that the 15% investment income surcharge existed during the Labour government of the 1970s but I wasn't aware that it had been introduced by the Heath government and continued throughout Thatcher's first term.
Is that correct ?
If so it means that Thatcher's first government was taxing some income at 75%.
We are about to see a live crucifixion of a Tory MP on social media. Is he even aware? Imagine being him, now, looking at Twitter, if he is looking at Twitter. Christ.
Looks like Mark Field MP could be in big trouble .
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
Just seen it. Yep. Pretty dreadful....
His only defense might be that she looked menacing and dangerous - but she just doesn't. Perhappenchance he will resign.
What did he do?
Grabbed a climate change protestor - an apparently unthreathening woman - by the throat and slammed her against a pillar. Awful optics, whatever his explanation.
Looks like Mark Field MP could be in big trouble .
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
Just seen it. Yep. Pretty dreadful....
His only defense might be that she looked menacing and dangerous - but she just doesn't. Perhappenchance he will resign.
What did he do?
Grabbed a climate change protestor - an apparently unthreathening woman - by the throat and slammed her against a pillar. Awful optics, whatever his explanation.
I thought tigers’ preferred manner of taking down prey involved going for the neck ?
I am trying to think of the upside of a tweet like that. Nope, there isn’t any. Foolish by Rory whatever he thinks.
He's got high on the supply of his own fan base.
Perhaps the opposite.
Politics has changed. The rise of Farage and the BXP, Trump's presidency and others - yet along Boris - show that the old way of doing politics is dead. Get yourself in the media, on the Internet. Develop a gang of supporters. Say something - anything to get to would-be supporters - and defend it in whichever way seems best - or don't even bother defending it, for your supporters will.
This will be Hunt's undoing as much as anything.
I don't like this new form of politics - it's ugly. I'd hope Stewart doesn't tack that way. But I do find some appeal in his platform.
And with that, good night everyone.
To an extent social media just reflects what has always been the case, the more charismatic candidates have more followers and tend to win.
That does not exclude more centrist candidates either, Obama, Trudeau, Stewart, Macron etc have all had big social media followings but they all have charisma. Hunt to be blunt does not, like Mitt Romney he has an excellent CV on paper and executive experience but that does not translate to campaigning ability or charisma.
Hunt has 170 000 twitter followers, Boris has 600,000, Rory now has 188 000.
IMO the Internet and social media magnifies it massively. In the old days you had to get past the gatekeepers of the media to get your message out: the newspaper editors and TV execs, and the amount of time and space you could get was limited. The Internet and social media removes almost all those barriers.
This has positives and negatives.
The truth is like fish swimming in a river of shite. In the old days, wise men could catch the fish and bring them to the people in the town. Now the river has risen over the banks and the town is awash with effluent.
So it will be PM Bonking Boris followed by Jezza (or possibly Marxist McDonnell)....searching Canadian real estate as we speak.
Way ahead of you.
FYI - Canada is bloody cold.
Vancouver isn't too bad (and lovely in the summer)....but the real estate prices are sky high.
Montréal is great, whatever the weather (their French is appalling, mind you). Toronna less so. And as for St. John’s, may I introduce you to screech.
Following on from earlier comments about crappiest food countries. Somebody said Canada, they obviously never been to Montreal. Lots of very good restaurants.
Jacques Chirac said the British had worse food than anyone bar the Finns
New Zealand must be a strong candidate for the worst food - in terms of general availability. There are some great restaurants in Auckland and Wellington, but the rump of the country is a food desert. Many larger towns have ne’er a single decent restaurant or pub in them, really depressingly boringly crap, gastronomically speaking.
Looks like Mark Field MP could be in big trouble .
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
Just seen it. Yep. Pretty dreadful....
His only defense might be that she looked menacing and dangerous - but she just doesn't. Perhappenchance he will resign.
What did he do?
Grabbed a climate change protestor - an apparently unthreathening woman - by the throat and slammed her against a pillar. Awful optics, whatever his explanation.
Watch the video carefully.
Don't know about you, but my throat is at the front of my neck, not the back.
Grappled with someone causing a breach of the peace and escorted her from the scene.
Looks like Mark Field MP could be in big trouble .
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
Just seen it. Yep. Pretty dreadful....
His only defense might be that she looked menacing and dangerous - but she just doesn't. Perhappenchance he will resign.
What did he do?
Grabbed a climate change protestor - an apparently unthreathening woman - by the throat and slammed her against a pillar. Awful optics, whatever his explanation.
We are about to see a live crucifixion of a Tory MP on social media. Is he even aware? Imagine being him, now, looking at Twitter, if he is looking at Twitter. Christ.
What was he thinking?!?!
I don't really care what he was thinking. Actions speak louder than words..or thoughts....
Looks like Mark Field MP could be in big trouble .
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
Just seen it. Yep. Pretty dreadful....
His only defense might be that she looked menacing and dangerous - but she just doesn't. Perhappenchance he will resign.
What did he do?
Grabbed a climate change protestor - an apparently unthreathening woman - by the throat and slammed her against a pillar. Awful optics, whatever his explanation.
Watch the video carefully.
Don't know about you, but my throat is at the front of my neck, not the back.
Grappled with someone causing a breach of the peace and escorted her from the scene.
Are you trying to defend him?
Crikey. Perhaps the worst bit - and it is all horrible - is when he "frog marches" her out by the neck. Grim, grim, grim. It is every Tory-hater's wet dream come true, arrogant rich man brutally picking on woman.
His career is finished. No explanation will save him. The spectacle will be gory. He's best off getting it done now.
What is success? If it’s us leaving the EU then that, is my mind failure. Success for whom, those wanting middle income tax cuts? Or is it saving the Tory party?
The EU (like the British state) only deserves to exist if it benefits its citizens.
If Boris Johnson is able to make a success of the UK outside the EU, then everyone should be cheering.
Now, the big question is whether he can. And we shall see.
For the UK to leave the EU would be an act of self-denial in the pursuit of a lie.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, the debt is paid."
And, of course, that excellent quote (from a truly brilliant TV series) applies most - and more aptly than anywhere else - to elite British europhiles, 1973-2016. At every juncture, they told lie after lie. "No loss of sovereignty", "a tidying up exercise", "Lisbon is different to the constitution". And everyone's favourite "We solemnly promise you a referendu... ooh, wait, we've been elected, fuck off, you're not getting a vote"
Slowly. over time, the lies and lies and lies incurred an enormous debt to the truth. That debt was paid, including interest, with Brexit.
The UK's membership of the EU = the Soviet nuclear energy industry. Discuss.
That is pure bollocks.
There was a long debate on Sovereignty between Heath and Foot on the subject, in which Heath was clear that membership meant pooled sovereignty. It was originally broadcast at prime time on one of 3 TV channels and watched by millions:
Looks like Mark Field MP could be in big trouble .
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
Just seen it. Yep. Pretty dreadful....
His only defense might be that she looked menacing and dangerous - but she just doesn't. Perhappenchance he will resign.
What did he do?
Grabbed a climate change protestor - an apparently unthreathening woman - by the throat and slammed her against a pillar. Awful optics, whatever his explanation.
Watch the video carefully.
Don't know about you, but my throat is at the front of my neck, not the back.
Grappled with someone causing a breach of the peace and escorted her from the scene.
He'll be lucky not to be made to quit even with that. Even with the most generous interpretation, he should not have done a thing. And that's if people even accept the most generous interpretation, which most will not.
And you can bet Boris and Hunt will be asked about this.
Comments
I'm waiting for Boris's interview with Brillo before I top up on him.
Fucking weird.
(James Fleet, if you're interested)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5vuiV9TBFo
I'm not holding my breath.
#nazanin
Somewhat late in relation to the ballot mailing date.
You think it will be that close?
Politics has changed. The rise of Farage and the BXP, Trump's presidency and others - yet along Boris - show that the old way of doing politics is dead. Get yourself in the media, on the Internet. Develop a gang of supporters. Say something - anything to get to would-be supporters - and defend it in whichever way seems best - or don't even bother defending it, for your supporters will.
This will be Hunt's undoing as much as anything.
I don't like this new form of politics - it's ugly. I'd hope Stewart doesn't tack that way. But I do find some appeal in his platform.
And with that, good night everyone.
https://twitter.com/MattCartoonist/status/1141780599604224000
https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1141817414910431233
Whereas 'statesmanlike' infers a more gentle approach. But that might be wrong, as I'm neither a QC nor a statesman. Thank God...
That does not exclude more centrist candidates either, Obama, Trudeau, Stewart, Macron etc have all had big social media followings but they all have charisma. Hunt to be blunt does not, like Mitt Romney he has an excellent CV on paper and executive experience but that does not translate to campaigning ability or charisma.
Hunt has 170 000 twitter followers, Boris has 600,000, Rory now has 188 000.
Its not had big your majority is, its what you do with it what counts
I don't think the Heath government is looked upon fondly by many Conservatives.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, the debt is paid."
2. You say that if Hunt wins we'll be right back to the May situation. In fact whoever wins we'll be right back to the May situation. BJ hasn't said anything that May didn't say over and over, and I'm sceptical that he'll find any new means of escaping the impasse. It seems Farage agrees with me, and he's the leader that most Brexiters really want.
This has positives and negatives.
Looks like the Russian version will be incurring more debts:
Russian state TV is working on its own version of Chernobyl, a series based on the worst nuclear accident in history. The NTV drama will deviate from the acclaimed HBO series - and from historical reality - by claiming that the CIA was involved in the disaster.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48559289
Bit like the Nazi 'Titanic' which had a German Officer on the bridge warning the arrogant British......
Boom and bust, losing to unions, rampant inflation, currency crises, what’s to like? The EEC was only significant in retrospect. It was stunningly incompetent.
Its been a long term problem, the actual numbers in pound notes are:
1998 £151bn
1999 £153bn
2000 £159bn
2001 £152bn
2002 £151bn
2003 £147bn
2004 £142bn
2005 £151bn
2006 £158bn
2007 £174bn
2008 £169bn
2009 £141bn
2010 £148bn
2011 £156bn
2012 £167bn
2013 £172bn
2014 £181bn
2015 £187bn
2016 £187bn
2017 £190bn
2018 £189bn
The data from column D of the spreadsheet here:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/datasets/businessinvestment
The thing which stands out to me was the multi year stagnation in business investment while Gordon Brown boasted about 'Labour investment'.
The world I grew up in was one where your knowledge of what was going on in the world came from Fleet Street, the BBC, ITV, and that was just about it. Even ITV back then was a serious channel at times, with good news and documentaries.
That is so different from the modern world where people are bombarded by lies, nonense, and outright disinformation at times. And if people want to they can find sources that will confirm their beliefs no matter how absurd they are.
I don't know if democracy and government as we have known it can be sustained in such an environment.
Slowly. over time, the lies and lies and lies incurred an enormous debt to the truth. That debt was paid, including interest, with Brexit.
The UK's membership of the EU = the Soviet nuclear energy industry. Discuss.
The footage from the climate change protest at the Mansion House looks pretty awful .
His only defense might be that she looked menacing and dangerous - but she just doesn't. Perhappenchance he will resign.
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1141819192020295680
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1141819192020295680
Surely has to resign, maybe even quit as MP. Possible by-election?
Oh, its a Tory MP.....silly question......
Note: Between 1973-4 and 1983-4 an investment income surcharge of 15% was applied to unearned income over £2,000 (between 1973-4 and 1977-8), £2,250 (1978-9), £5,000 (1979-80), £5,500 (between 1980-1 and 1981-2), £6,250 (1982-3) and £7,100 (1983-4).
I knew that the 15% investment income surcharge existed during the Labour government of the 1970s but I wasn't aware that it had been introduced by the Heath government and continued throughout Thatcher's first term.
Is that correct ?
If so it means that Thatcher's first government was taxing some income at 75%.
What was he thinking?!?!
Don't know about you, but my throat is at the front of my neck, not the back.
Grappled with someone causing a breach of the peace and escorted her from the scene.
Crikey. Perhaps the worst bit - and it is all horrible - is when he "frog marches" her out by the neck. Grim, grim, grim. It is every Tory-hater's wet dream come true, arrogant rich man brutally picking on woman.
His career is finished. No explanation will save him. The spectacle will be gory. He's best off getting it done now.
There was a long debate on Sovereignty between Heath and Foot on the subject, in which Heath was clear that membership meant pooled sovereignty. It was originally broadcast at prime time on one of 3 TV channels and watched by millions:
https://youtu.be/CuZrzwm6CJs
And you can bet Boris and Hunt will be asked about this.
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1141828444612976646
FFS.