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  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929
    isam said:

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    I found it strange that Gove was labelled a hypocrite for suggesting lifetime bans for teachers caught with Class A drugs now, because he had used them in the past.
    Especially when it was for getting convicted while a teacher not for spent convictions as a youth.

    A politician getting convicted would be out of a job too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 24,634
    Interesting - Maria Miller's claimed justification for slandering the lady who is the other party to the Raab NDA:

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    How many 54 year old plebs get to decide drugs and policing policy?
    That's neither here nor there. It is the same rule for the 54 year old plebs or the 54 year old politicians. Not one for them ...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 61,471

    TGOHF said:

    Boris leads on Anne Frank - then welcomes his new MP..

    Boris isn't LOTO yet.
    If he's ever LOTO it'll be for a very brief period, unless Betfair is deciding the length of his tenure there.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 9,776

    isam said:

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    I found it strange that Gove was labelled a hypocrite for suggesting lifetime bans for teachers caught with Class A drugs now, because he had used them in the past.
    Especially when it was for getting convicted while a teacher not for spent convictions as a youth.

    A politician getting convicted would be out of a job too.
    Not if there was no jail time.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    It does seem to me that the comments on here re Boris are perfectly predictable.

    He is a marmite character, you either love him or hate him

    I think the key to the success of a PM Boris is appointing the right people to key cabinet positions. I would hope he would be a lot more collegiate than May. IMHO he needs to mend fences with Gove and make him Brexit secretary.
    Gove or Raab for Brexit Secretary.
    Raab actually was Brexit Secretary under Theresa May, for all of four months.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,293
    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 26,744
    Jeremy Corbyn wants a “Tory Brexit” so the Conservative Party gets the blame “when things go wrong”, former Labour chancellor Alistair Darling has said.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-wants-a-tory-brexit-alistair-darling_uk_5d00aa56e4b075510399d24f?abg
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929

    isam said:

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    I found it strange that Gove was labelled a hypocrite for suggesting lifetime bans for teachers caught with Class A drugs now, because he had used them in the past.
    Especially when it was for getting convicted while a teacher not for spent convictions as a youth.

    A politician getting convicted would be out of a job too.
    Not if there was no jail time.
    Once convicted there would be a recall petition surely?

    And as we know the only people this lifetime ban has applied to are 3 individuals all convicted for drug productions/drug dealing and not using drugs as a youth.

    I suspect there are well over 3 teachers in the entire nation who dabbled in illegal drugs while at university. Zero have lifetime bans.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929

    It does seem to me that the comments on here re Boris are perfectly predictable.

    He is a marmite character, you either love him or hate him

    I think the key to the success of a PM Boris is appointing the right people to key cabinet positions. I would hope he would be a lot more collegiate than May. IMHO he needs to mend fences with Gove and make him Brexit secretary.
    Gove or Raab for Brexit Secretary.
    Raab actually was Brexit Secretary under Theresa May, for all of four months.
    And he resigned because he was undermined and given no authority. If Boris and Raab can be on the same page that would be different.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 15,023

    isam said:

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    I found it strange that Gove was labelled a hypocrite for suggesting lifetime bans for teachers caught with Class A drugs now, because he had used them in the past.
    Especially when it was for getting convicted while a teacher not for spent convictions as a youth.

    A politician getting convicted would be out of a job too.
    Not if there was no jail time.
    Once convicted there would be a recall petition surely?

    And as we know the only people this lifetime ban has applied to are 3 individuals all convicted for drug productions/drug dealing and not using drugs as a youth.

    I suspect there are well over 3 teachers in the entire nation who dabbled in illegal drugs while at university. Zero have lifetime bans.
    Indeed. The Tories talk a tough game, but are really as soft on crime as Labour.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 24,634

    It does seem to me that the comments on here re Boris are perfectly predictable.

    He is a marmite character, you either love him or hate him

    I think the key to the success of a PM Boris is appointing the right people to key cabinet positions. I would hope he would be a lot more collegiate than May. IMHO he needs to mend fences with Gove and make him Brexit secretary.
    Gove or Raab for Brexit Secretary.
    Raab actually was Brexit Secretary under Theresa May, for all of four months.
    And he resigned because he was undermined and given no authority. If Boris and Raab can be on the same page that would be different.
    They are. It's blank.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929
    Nigelb said:

    It does seem to me that the comments on here re Boris are perfectly predictable.

    He is a marmite character, you either love him or hate him

    I think the key to the success of a PM Boris is appointing the right people to key cabinet positions. I would hope he would be a lot more collegiate than May. IMHO he needs to mend fences with Gove and make him Brexit secretary.
    Gove or Raab for Brexit Secretary.
    Raab actually was Brexit Secretary under Theresa May, for all of four months.
    And he resigned because he was undermined and given no authority. If Boris and Raab can be on the same page that would be different.
    They are. It's blank.
    A blank page is a better starting point than May's awful backstop and deal.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 26,744

    It does seem to me that the comments on here re Boris are perfectly predictable.

    He is a marmite character, you either love him or hate him

    I think the key to the success of a PM Boris is appointing the right people to key cabinet positions. I would hope he would be a lot more collegiate than May. IMHO he needs to mend fences with Gove and make him Brexit secretary.
    Gove or Raab for Brexit Secretary.
    Raab actually was Brexit Secretary under Theresa May, for all of four months.
    And he resigned because he was undermined and given no authority. If Boris and Raab can be on the same page that would be different.
    LOL - are you expecting Boris, of all people on this earth, to be loyal and supportive to underlings?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929
    Boris metaphorically needs to do just one thing once elected.

    Go to Europe and say: We aren't passing the backstop. We will pass the agreement without it, otherwise there is no deal and no backstop anyway. Your choice. *drop mic and walk out*
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 9,776
    Good question by Wes Streeting.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929

    It does seem to me that the comments on here re Boris are perfectly predictable.

    He is a marmite character, you either love him or hate him

    I think the key to the success of a PM Boris is appointing the right people to key cabinet positions. I would hope he would be a lot more collegiate than May. IMHO he needs to mend fences with Gove and make him Brexit secretary.
    Gove or Raab for Brexit Secretary.
    Raab actually was Brexit Secretary under Theresa May, for all of four months.
    And he resigned because he was undermined and given no authority. If Boris and Raab can be on the same page that would be different.
    LOL - are you expecting Boris, of all people on this earth, to be loyal and supportive to underlings?
    Am I expecting Boris of all people to actually allow underlings to do their own job rather than do it for them behind their backs? Yes.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 12,045

    isam said:

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    I found it strange that Gove was labelled a hypocrite for suggesting lifetime bans for teachers caught with Class A drugs now, because he had used them in the past.
    Especially when it was for getting convicted while a teacher not for spent convictions as a youth.

    A politician getting convicted would be out of a job too.
    Gove wasn't a youth. He was a journalist in his 30s. I guess he should therefore be banned from journalism for life. As should any other former coke snorter, such as Toby Young and our very own SeanT.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 35,297
    SKY caption saying Wes Streeting's Ilford North voted Leave - that came as quite a surprise to me! I thought we were Remain!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 9,776
    edited June 2019

    isam said:

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    I found it strange that Gove was labelled a hypocrite for suggesting lifetime bans for teachers caught with Class A drugs now, because he had used them in the past.
    Especially when it was for getting convicted while a teacher not for spent convictions as a youth.

    A politician getting convicted would be out of a job too.
    Not if there was no jail time.
    Once convicted there would be a recall petition surely?

    And as we know the only people this lifetime ban has applied to are 3 individuals all convicted for drug productions/drug dealing and not using drugs as a youth.

    I suspect there are well over 3 teachers in the entire nation who dabbled in illegal drugs while at university. Zero have lifetime bans.
    No, a recall petition only applies if there's a jail sentence of greater than 1 year.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 35,709

    Good question by Wes Streeting.

    Good answer by TM
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 26,744

    Am I expecting Boris of all people to actually allow underlings to do their own job rather than do it for them behind their backs? Yes.

    Then you are naive beyond belief.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929

    isam said:

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    I found it strange that Gove was labelled a hypocrite for suggesting lifetime bans for teachers caught with Class A drugs now, because he had used them in the past.
    Especially when it was for getting convicted while a teacher not for spent convictions as a youth.

    A politician getting convicted would be out of a job too.
    Not if there was no jail time.
    Once convicted there would be a recall petition surely?

    And as we know the only people this lifetime ban has applied to are 3 individuals all convicted for drug productions/drug dealing and not using drugs as a youth.

    I suspect there are well over 3 teachers in the entire nation who dabbled in illegal drugs while at university. Zero have lifetime bans.
    No, a recall petition only applies if there's a jail sentence of greater than 1 year.
    No there is no recall petition if over a year. The seat is immediately vacated if over 1 year.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 61,471

    Jeremy Corbyn wants a “Tory Brexit” so the Conservative Party gets the blame “when things go wrong”, former Labour chancellor Alistair Darling has said.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-wants-a-tory-brexit-alistair-darling_uk_5d00aa56e4b075510399d24f?abg

    As we constantly hear on here though from Sandy Rentool, Big John Owls and other tribalists getting Labour into power and trying to destroy the Tories is the most important job in the UK. The depth of tribalism amongst it's core support leads to their disgracefully cynical policies that care not a hoot for the actual good of the country in any way.
    May was the compromiser, no chance now particularly if someone from the leave lane (Probably Boris) gets in charge.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    I have to say after watching Boris Johnson on the TV today, I cannot imagine him as PM. He comes across very badly, unprofessional, glib and inarticulate. Johnson does not look the part, sound the part or have the judgement required for such an important role. He may well become PM but having a joke like that as PM is not funny!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929

    Am I expecting Boris of all people to actually allow underlings to do their own job rather than do it for them behind their backs? Yes.

    Then you are naive beyond belief.
    Boris is a micromanager not a delegater?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 35,747
    So, it was MPs booing and not some plebs off the streets:

  • isamisam Posts: 33,501

    isam said:

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    I found it strange that Gove was labelled a hypocrite for suggesting lifetime bans for teachers caught with Class A drugs now, because he had used them in the past.
    Especially when it was for getting convicted while a teacher not for spent convictions as a youth.

    A politician getting convicted would be out of a job too.
    Gove wasn't a youth. He was a journalist in his 30s. I guess he should therefore be banned from journalism for life. As should any other former coke snorter, such as Toby Young and our very own SeanT.
    Do you really think that teachers shouldn't be held to a higher level of personal responsibility than journalists?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 9,776

    isam said:

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    I found it strange that Gove was labelled a hypocrite for suggesting lifetime bans for teachers caught with Class A drugs now, because he had used them in the past.
    Especially when it was for getting convicted while a teacher not for spent convictions as a youth.

    A politician getting convicted would be out of a job too.
    Not if there was no jail time.
    Once convicted there would be a recall petition surely?

    And as we know the only people this lifetime ban has applied to are 3 individuals all convicted for drug productions/drug dealing and not using drugs as a youth.

    I suspect there are well over 3 teachers in the entire nation who dabbled in illegal drugs while at university. Zero have lifetime bans.
    No, a recall petition only applies if there's a jail sentence of greater than 1 year.
    No there is no recall petition if over a year. The seat is immediately vacated if over 1 year.
    You are right, I edited my post. But if someone was to get a drug conviction without a prison sentence, there would be no recall petition.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 76,757
    Blair and Cameron both won ballots including members albeit before they became PM ie to be Opposition Leader
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929

    isam said:

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    I found it strange that Gove was labelled a hypocrite for suggesting lifetime bans for teachers caught with Class A drugs now, because he had used them in the past.
    Especially when it was for getting convicted while a teacher not for spent convictions as a youth.

    A politician getting convicted would be out of a job too.
    Not if there was no jail time.
    Once convicted there would be a recall petition surely?

    And as we know the only people this lifetime ban has applied to are 3 individuals all convicted for drug productions/drug dealing and not using drugs as a youth.

    I suspect there are well over 3 teachers in the entire nation who dabbled in illegal drugs while at university. Zero have lifetime bans.
    No, a recall petition only applies if there's a jail sentence of greater than 1 year.
    No there is no recall petition if over a year. The seat is immediately vacated if over 1 year.
    You are right, I edited my post. But if someone was to get a drug conviction without a prison sentence, there would be no recall petition.
    Can you show any teachers subject to a lifetime ban who had a conviction without a prison sentence?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 35,747

    I have to say after watching Boris Johnson on the TV today, I cannot imagine him as PM. He comes across very badly, unprofessional, glib and inarticulate. Johnson does not look the part, sound the part or have the judgement required for such an important role. He may well become PM but having a joke like that as PM is not funny!

    Well, he may be made leader, but not convinced he will be PM.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 35,709

    I have to say after watching Boris Johnson on the TV today, I cannot imagine him as PM. He comes across very badly, unprofessional, glib and inarticulate. Johnson does not look the part, sound the part or have the judgement required for such an important role. He may well become PM but having a joke like that as PM is not funny!

    And neither is Corbyn as LTO
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    How many 54 year old plebs get to decide drugs and policing policy?
    That's neither here nor there. It is the same rule for the 54 year old plebs or the 54 year old politicians. Not one for them ...
    I'm not sure it's exactly hypocrisy, but Johnson describes stop and search as "loving". Would he have considered it loving if he had been stopped and searched while in possession of cocaine? Would he have considered it loving if he'd had the book thrown at him for it rather than being let off with a warning? Both those things are statistically far more likely to happen to working class and ethnic minority people
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 14,066
    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 76,757
    Good launch by Boris, made clear he still wants a Deal with the EU but unlike May will not take No Deal off the table and made clear the Tories must deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 26,744

    Am I expecting Boris of all people to actually allow underlings to do their own job rather than do it for them behind their backs? Yes.

    Then you are naive beyond belief.
    Boris is a micromanager not a delegater?
    No of course not, he's a chancer who will show absolutely zero loyalty to anyone and shaft or contradict underlings without compunction. Rather Trump-like in that respect.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 3,228

    Soon be time to start the stockpiling again I reckon.

    Do you own Fray Bentos stock?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 9,776

    isam said:

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    I found it strange that Gove was labelled a hypocrite for suggesting lifetime bans for teachers caught with Class A drugs now, because he had used them in the past.
    Especially when it was for getting convicted while a teacher not for spent convictions as a youth.

    A politician getting convicted would be out of a job too.
    Not if there was no jail time.
    Once convicted there would be a recall petition surely?

    And as we know the only people this lifetime ban has applied to are 3 individuals all convicted for drug productions/drug dealing and not using drugs as a youth.

    I suspect there are well over 3 teachers in the entire nation who dabbled in illegal drugs while at university. Zero have lifetime bans.
    No, a recall petition only applies if there's a jail sentence of greater than 1 year.
    No there is no recall petition if over a year. The seat is immediately vacated if over 1 year.
    You are right, I edited my post. But if someone was to get a drug conviction without a prison sentence, there would be no recall petition.
    Can you show any teachers subject to a lifetime ban who had a conviction without a prison sentence?
    Stop moving the goalposts.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    I have to say after watching Boris Johnson on the TV today, I cannot imagine him as PM. He comes across very badly, unprofessional, glib and inarticulate. Johnson does not look the part, sound the part or have the judgement required for such an important role. He may well become PM but having a joke like that as PM is not funny!

    Well, he may be made leader, but not convinced he will be PM.
    I'd give up on this idea of the government being no confidenced before he becomes PM. You'll only be disappointed.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929
    kinabalu said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

    Good! Honest answer!

    The burka is not a racial thing either. A race is something you are born to and can not change. Nobody is born to a burka.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929

    isam said:

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    I found it strange that Gove was labelled a hypocrite for suggesting lifetime bans for teachers caught with Class A drugs now, because he had used them in the past.
    Especially when it was for getting convicted while a teacher not for spent convictions as a youth.

    A politician getting convicted would be out of a job too.
    Not if there was no jail time.
    Once convicted there would be a recall petition surely?

    And as we know the only people this lifetime ban has applied to are 3 individuals all convicted for drug productions/drug dealing and not using drugs as a youth.

    I suspect there are well over 3 teachers in the entire nation who dabbled in illegal drugs while at university. Zero have lifetime bans.
    No, a recall petition only applies if there's a jail sentence of greater than 1 year.
    No there is no recall petition if over a year. The seat is immediately vacated if over 1 year.
    You are right, I edited my post. But if someone was to get a drug conviction without a prison sentence, there would be no recall petition.
    Can you show any teachers subject to a lifetime ban who had a conviction without a prison sentence?
    Stop moving the goalposts.
    I'm not. The ludicrous claim is it was one rule for one, one for another. That was garbage
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 35,709
    HYUFD said:

    Good launch by Boris, made clear he still wants a Deal with the EU but unlike May will not take No Deal off the table and made clear the Tories must deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal

    He was subdued, even nervous, and managed to be gaff free but has made impossible promises
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 15,023
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    I found it strange that Gove was labelled a hypocrite for suggesting lifetime bans for teachers caught with Class A drugs now, because he had used them in the past.
    Especially when it was for getting convicted while a teacher not for spent convictions as a youth.

    A politician getting convicted would be out of a job too.
    Gove wasn't a youth. He was a journalist in his 30s. I guess he should therefore be banned from journalism for life. As should any other former coke snorter, such as Toby Young and our very own SeanT.
    Do you really think that teachers shouldn't be held to a higher level of personal responsibility than journalists?
    Indeed. You can certainly make a case for the SoS for Education not doing coke - in the same way as HS2 has a zero tolerance for its staff in Canary Wharf drinking at lunchtime (or having alcohol anywhere near the office). But what Gove did as a journo does not make him a hypocrite for wanting high standards from teachers (even though it's all talk).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 35,747

    Soon be time to start the stockpiling again I reckon.

    Do you own Fray Bentos stock?
    No, I'm a veggie!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929

    HYUFD said:

    Good launch by Boris, made clear he still wants a Deal with the EU but unlike May will not take No Deal off the table and made clear the Tories must deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal

    He was subdued, even nervous, and managed to be gaff free but has made impossible promises
    What promise is impossible?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 56,049
    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Chris said:

    How does he leave by 31 October in any circumstances?

    Earlier this year we were told repeatedly that even if the Commons passed the withdrawal agreement, it would need something like two months of concentrated work to pass the necessary legislation.

    We were also told that even if we left with No Deal, legislation would be required which would take almost as long to pass. You can expedite legislation if it's not contentious, but No Deal legislation is about as contentious as can be. There isn't a majority for it now in the Commons. Supposing Johnson won an election first on a No Deal platform - which I doubt he could, and which would cut down the available time even further - even then there is the House of Lords to deal with.
    The plan is a GE. Hence obsession with jom saving them. They know parliament wont no deal and renegotiation is very unlikely, since GEs, with an extension permissible only to deal with that.
    You mean you think the plan is to ask the EU for extension to allow a general election so he can campaign for a No Deal?

    So Johnson is planning to ditch the 31 October nonsense immediately he's elected leader?
    Yes and no. He will go for 31 Oct, unrealistically, parliament will stop him, he asks for a GE and says to the public he is not delaying by choice but you really to vote for him now to get it at all. And asks for an extension to allow that.
    OK. My point was that leaving on 31 October wasn't possible. I think you're agreeing.
    I do, and I think Boris knows it. Like most of the candidates his real plan is not his official plan.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 35,709

    HYUFD said:

    Good launch by Boris, made clear he still wants a Deal with the EU but unlike May will not take No Deal off the table and made clear the Tories must deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal

    He was subdued, even nervous, and managed to be gaff free but has made impossible promises
    What promise is impossible?
    No deal on 31st October
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 35,297
    kinabalu said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

    It was NOT "Muslim Women" - it was "Muslim women wot wear the veil".
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    I have to say after watching Boris Johnson on the TV today, I cannot imagine him as PM. He comes across very badly, unprofessional, glib and inarticulate. Johnson does not look the part, sound the part or have the judgement required for such an important role. He may well become PM but having a joke like that as PM is not funny!

    And neither is Corbyn as LTO
    True, I am in complete dispair at the moment about UK politics. The whole country seems to have gone haywire.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 10,304
    I may be wrong but do not recall Labour Leadership campaign launches by the various candidates in 2015 - or indeed 2010.It is not obvious that Boris had to have a launch at all.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 35,709

    I have to say after watching Boris Johnson on the TV today, I cannot imagine him as PM. He comes across very badly, unprofessional, glib and inarticulate. Johnson does not look the part, sound the part or have the judgement required for such an important role. He may well become PM but having a joke like that as PM is not funny!

    And neither is Corbyn as LTO
    True, I am in complete dispair at the moment about UK politics. The whole country seems to have gone haywire.
    I think you may well be in a majority in the Country
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 3,228

    Soon be time to start the stockpiling again I reckon.

    Do you own Fray Bentos stock?
    No, I'm a veggie!
    Does that mean that you can’t own stock in a meat company? Must make fund choice a bit time-consuming?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 6,510

    Boris metaphorically needs to do just one thing once elected.

    Go to Europe and say: We aren't passing the backstop. We will pass the agreement without it, otherwise there is no deal and no backstop anyway. Your choice. *drop mic and walk out*

    Why do you say "metaphorically"?

    If that's metaphorical, what do you think it corresponds to "literally"?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,293

    kinabalu said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

    It was NOT "Muslim Women" - it was "Muslim women wot wear the veil".
    Either way, Johnson thinks it's ok for Johnson to tell ethnic minority women what to wear.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 24,634
    edited June 2019

    Am I expecting Boris of all people to actually allow underlings to do their own job rather than do it for them behind their backs? Yes.

    Then you are naive beyond belief.
    Boris is a micromanager not a delegater?
    No of course not, he's a chancer who will show absolutely zero loyalty to anyone and shaft or contradict underlings without compunction. Rather Trump-like in that respect.
    And inclined, like Trump, to mess with random details (the water cannon thing was a hint of that).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 76,757
    edited June 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Good launch by Boris, made clear he still wants a Deal with the EU but unlike May will not take No Deal off the table and made clear the Tories must deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal

    He was subdued, even nervous, and managed to be gaff free but has made impossible promises
    Not impossible, if Parliament continues to block Brexit Boris calls a snap general election by the end of October and on the current polling he would win it with the clear majority he needs to deliver Brexit and prevent further extension or revoke.

    Boris just needed to be serious and gaff free at his launch and delivered
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 12,045
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    I found it strange that Gove was labelled a hypocrite for suggesting lifetime bans for teachers caught with Class A drugs now, because he had used them in the past.
    Especially when it was for getting convicted while a teacher not for spent convictions as a youth.

    A politician getting convicted would be out of a job too.
    Gove wasn't a youth. He was a journalist in his 30s. I guess he should therefore be banned from journalism for life. As should any other former coke snorter, such as Toby Young and our very own SeanT.
    Do you really think that teachers shouldn't be held to a higher level of personal responsibility than journalists?
    While the roles are not directly comparable, journalists have the potential to influence a large readership so should be held to a high standard.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 3,228
    justin124 said:

    I may be wrong but do not recall Labour Leadership campaign launches by the various candidates in 2015 - or indeed 2010.It is not obvious that Boris had to have a launch at all.

    England is becoming America.

    Final scene from Animal Farm. Only this time the colonisers are becoming the colonised. Trumpeted, if you will.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    justin124 said:

    I may be wrong but do not recall Labour Leadership campaign launches by the various candidates in 2015 - or indeed 2010.It is not obvious that Boris had to have a launch at all.

    And in 1926 none of the prospective leaders had a two minute video and campaign web site. Boris is running for the Conservative leadership in 2019. He might not need to do anything in particular but if all the others are doing it, whatever it is, then Boris might be advised to join in.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 24,634
    edited June 2019
    justin124 said:

    I may be wrong but do not recall Labour Leadership campaign launches by the various candidates in 2015 - or indeed 2010.It is not obvious that Boris had to have a launch at all.

    If MD wants to volunteer the use of his space cannon, the advisability of a launch would be quite obvious to me.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929

    kinabalu said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

    It was NOT "Muslim Women" - it was "Muslim women wot wear the veil".
    Indeed it is derogatory to Islam to associate that abhorrent veil with all Muslims.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 28,808
    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    IMO, denouncing such sins becomes subject to a law of diminishing returns. When everything is racist, sexist, and homophobic, nothing is.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    I have to say after watching Boris Johnson on the TV today, I cannot imagine him as PM. He comes across very badly, unprofessional, glib and inarticulate. Johnson does not look the part, sound the part or have the judgement required for such an important role. He may well become PM but having a joke like that as PM is not funny!

    And neither is Corbyn as LTO
    True, I am in complete dispair at the moment about UK politics. The whole country seems to have gone haywire.
    Why can't we just go back to the good old days of killing millions in far-flung countries, unrestrained apocalyptic damage to the environment, sidelining of minorities, and never-ending transfer of wealth to the richest? You know, when people were polite.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929
    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

    It was NOT "Muslim Women" - it was "Muslim women wot wear the veil".
    Either way, Johnson thinks it's ok for Johnson to tell ethnic minority women what to wear.
    No. Johnson's point in the article was he was opposing bans that other nations like France and Sweden have passed.

    But why let facts get in the way of your gesturing?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929
    Chris said:

    Boris metaphorically needs to do just one thing once elected.

    Go to Europe and say: We aren't passing the backstop. We will pass the agreement without it, otherwise there is no deal and no backstop anyway. Your choice. *drop mic and walk out*

    Why do you say "metaphorically"?

    If that's metaphorical, what do you think it corresponds to "literally"?
    Same point but more diplomatic and don't literally drop the mic.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 12,698
    If Boris wins the leadership I'd expect him to be there for a while. He'll call an election as soon as possible and knowing the way the British like to give the new leader a chance he'll win it and win comfortably. What he does with Brexit will be for another day. Get used to it. Five years with Boris
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 14,066

    I have to say after watching Boris Johnson on the TV today, I cannot imagine him as PM. He comes across very badly, unprofessional, glib and inarticulate. Johnson does not look the part, sound the part or have the judgement required for such an important role. He may well become PM but having a joke like that as PM is not funny!

    If you had had a truly terrible day at work which ended in the sack, followed by an awful commute back, stuck for hours on the central line in a hot sweaty crowded carriage, eventually getting to your station way past dinner time, then on the walk home treading in a pile of dog shit, before finally arriving chez vous to discover your wife in bed with the builder - you might well at this point laugh.

    It's funny in that sense.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 24,747
    Pulpstar said:

    Jeremy Corbyn wants a “Tory Brexit” so the Conservative Party gets the blame “when things go wrong”, former Labour chancellor Alistair Darling has said.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-wants-a-tory-brexit-alistair-darling_uk_5d00aa56e4b075510399d24f?abg

    As we constantly hear on here though from Sandy Rentool, Big John Owls and other tribalists getting Labour into power and trying to destroy the Tories is the most important job in the UK. The depth of tribalism amongst it's core support leads to their disgracefully cynical policies that care not a hoot for the actual good of the country in any way.
    May was the compromiser, no chance now particularly if someone from the leave lane (Probably Boris) gets in charge.
    Labour's is not only a reasonable position it is the one they are mandated by their supporters to hold. The premise is that everything would be better under Labour and their role is not to support Conservative policies as those policies are always and everywhere inferior to Labour’s own.

    As for the good of the country who is to say it is not nationalising Tescos or any of the bollocks that Philip Thompson and our new Orange man spout?
  • Everyone take a few paces back from the detail of the leadership launch and examine the strategic position:
    1. Brexit is the new political paradigm that defines all other issues / parties. Increasingly entrenched increasingly angry hate mobs on both sides
    2. Leavers will not countenance any further delay. Whether the UK is ready or not, we must leave. And leave with no deal is the only proper leave
    3. Leavers are predominantly Tory leaning. And will only vote Tory again if Leave really does mean Leave. Unless the Tories do this in the short term, Farage will obliterate them and make them irrelevant in the medium and long term
    4. The parliamentary maths remain deadlocked - no support for deal, no deal, or remain. Yet the deadlock must be broken

    Which explains the Boris stratagem. I want a deal, but we have to leave on Halloween. (then) I've spoken to these foreign jobbies and they won't budge so no deal it is. (then) These traitors and fools in Parliament want to block our future and imprison us here. I'm calling an election - vote Boris and we leave with no deal.

    Thats it. Boris doesn't care about detail. Never has. And his audience of leavers don't care either (its all project fear). And unless he does this thing the Tories are toast. If it all goes wrong them may be toast, but may be is better than will be.

    Boris as PM. Election in late October. A Tory win. Immediate No Deal and damn the consequences.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

    It was NOT "Muslim Women" - it was "Muslim women wot wear the veil".
    Either way, Johnson thinks it's ok for Johnson to tell ethnic minority women what to wear.
    Who knew that Islam was an ethnicity?

    Idiot.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 10,304

    justin124 said:

    I may be wrong but do not recall Labour Leadership campaign launches by the various candidates in 2015 - or indeed 2010.It is not obvious that Boris had to have a launch at all.

    And in 1926 none of the prospective leaders had a two minute video and campaign web site. Boris is running for the Conservative leadership in 2019. He might not need to do anything in particular but if all the others are doing it, whatever it is, then Boris might be advised to join in.
    But the 2015 and 2010 contests are recent. No reason to act like sheep and follow everybody else - particularly when there are so many precedents available to justify not doing so.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 61,471
    justin124 said:

    I may be wrong but do not recall Labour Leadership campaign launches by the various candidates in 2015 - or indeed 2010.It is not obvious that Boris had to have a launch at all.

    I think it will be the case going forward. A launch allows a candidate to control the narrative and also get some exposure.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,293
    edited June 2019

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

    It was NOT "Muslim Women" - it was "Muslim women wot wear the veil".
    Either way, Johnson thinks it's ok for Johnson to tell ethnic minority women what to wear.
    No. Johnson's point in the article was he was opposing bans that other nations like France and Sweden have passed.

    But why let facts get in the way of your gesturing?
    Here is a fact: Johnson wrote this:
    "If a constituent came to my MP’s surgery with her face obscured, I should feel fully entitled – like Jack Straw – to ask her to remove it so that I could talk to her properly."
    So doing exactly what I said - telling ethnic minority women what to wear.

    and why use insulting language like "gesturing"?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 10,304

    Everyone take a few paces back from the detail of the leadership launch and examine the strategic position:
    1. Brexit is the new political paradigm that defines all other issues / parties. Increasingly entrenched increasingly angry hate mobs on both sides
    2. Leavers will not countenance any further delay. Whether the UK is ready or not, we must leave. And leave with no deal is the only proper leave
    3. Leavers are predominantly Tory leaning. And will only vote Tory again if Leave really does mean Leave. Unless the Tories do this in the short term, Farage will obliterate them and make them irrelevant in the medium and long term
    4. The parliamentary maths remain deadlocked - no support for deal, no deal, or remain. Yet the deadlock must be broken

    Which explains the Boris stratagem. I want a deal, but we have to leave on Halloween. (then) I've spoken to these foreign jobbies and they won't budge so no deal it is. (then) These traitors and fools in Parliament want to block our future and imprison us here. I'm calling an election - vote Boris and we leave with no deal.

    Thats it. Boris doesn't care about detail. Never has. And his audience of leavers don't care either (its all project fear). And unless he does this thing the Tories are toast. If it all goes wrong them may be toast, but may be is better than will be.

    Boris as PM. Election in late October. A Tory win. Immediate No Deal and damn the consequences.

    Did you expect the Peterborough result?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 28,808
    justin124 said:

    Everyone take a few paces back from the detail of the leadership launch and examine the strategic position:
    1. Brexit is the new political paradigm that defines all other issues / parties. Increasingly entrenched increasingly angry hate mobs on both sides
    2. Leavers will not countenance any further delay. Whether the UK is ready or not, we must leave. And leave with no deal is the only proper leave
    3. Leavers are predominantly Tory leaning. And will only vote Tory again if Leave really does mean Leave. Unless the Tories do this in the short term, Farage will obliterate them and make them irrelevant in the medium and long term
    4. The parliamentary maths remain deadlocked - no support for deal, no deal, or remain. Yet the deadlock must be broken

    Which explains the Boris stratagem. I want a deal, but we have to leave on Halloween. (then) I've spoken to these foreign jobbies and they won't budge so no deal it is. (then) These traitors and fools in Parliament want to block our future and imprison us here. I'm calling an election - vote Boris and we leave with no deal.

    Thats it. Boris doesn't care about detail. Never has. And his audience of leavers don't care either (its all project fear). And unless he does this thing the Tories are toast. If it all goes wrong them may be toast, but may be is better than will be.

    Boris as PM. Election in late October. A Tory win. Immediate No Deal and damn the consequences.

    Did you expect the Peterborough result?
    I expected the Conservative vote to fall further, and therefore TBP to win.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929
    Sean_F said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    IMO, denouncing such sins becomes subject to a law of diminishing returns. When everything is racist, sexist, and homophobic, nothing is.
    Indeed. Pink News says Boris has a positive record on LGBT issues, as does They Work For You. He voted for the removal of 28, voted for Civil Partnerships and backed legalising gay marriage before it was on the agenda and was highest ranking Tory to do so when he did.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 35,297
    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

    It was NOT "Muslim Women" - it was "Muslim women wot wear the veil".
    Either way, Johnson thinks it's ok for Johnson to tell ethnic minority women what to wear.
    1) Not all ethnic minority women wear the veil.

    2) Plenty of prominent British Muslim ladies do not wear religious paraphernalia, like Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, Saira Khan, Rupa Huq MP, Tulip Siddiqui MP, etc.
  • isamisam Posts: 33,501

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Johnson: let the police stop and search any young people who look like they might be up to something illegal. Also: it's nobody's business if I took coke when I was 19.
    One rule for OEs, one rule for the plebs.

    How many 54 year old plebs do you know who are being questioned in a job interview as to what they did or did not take at 19?
    I found it strange that Gove was labelled a hypocrite for suggesting lifetime bans for teachers caught with Class A drugs now, because he had used them in the past.
    Especially when it was for getting convicted while a teacher not for spent convictions as a youth.

    A politician getting convicted would be out of a job too.
    Gove wasn't a youth. He was a journalist in his 30s. I guess he should therefore be banned from journalism for life. As should any other former coke snorter, such as Toby Young and our very own SeanT.
    Do you really think that teachers shouldn't be held to a higher level of personal responsibility than journalists?
    While the roles are not directly comparable, journalists have the potential to influence a large readership so should be held to a high standard.
    They work for private employers and all that matters is they write entertaining or informative copy that their consumers enjoy. If they were high as a kite while writing it, that wouldnt matter. I would say they are completely uncomparable to teachers, paid out of the public purse, who are educating our children as well as providing them with moral guidance.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,293
    RoyalBlue said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

    It was NOT "Muslim Women" - it was "Muslim women wot wear the veil".
    Either way, Johnson thinks it's ok for Johnson to tell ethnic minority women what to wear.
    Who knew that Islam was an ethnicity?

    Idiot.
    here's a tip, to avoid making an "idiot" of yourself, try replacing the word "Islam" with the word "Judaism" or the world "muslims" with the word "jews" in any statement to see how it sounds, it should help you with your blindspot.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,912
    isam said:

    ...whilst presenting themselves as a victim despite being privileged...

    Like Michael Gove, then... :open_mouth:

    (ducks, runs out of room.... :smile: )

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 35,297
    edited June 2019
    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

    It was NOT "Muslim Women" - it was "Muslim women wot wear the veil".
    Either way, Johnson thinks it's ok for Johnson to tell ethnic minority women what to wear.
    No. Johnson's point in the article was he was opposing bans that other nations like France and Sweden have passed.

    But why let facts get in the way of your gesturing?
    Here is a fact: Johnson wrote this:
    "If a constituent came to my MP’s surgery with her face obscured, I should feel fully entitled – like Jack Straw – to ask her to remove it so that I could talk to her properly."
    So doing exactly what I said - telling ethnic minority women what to wear.

    and why use insulting language like "gesturing"?
    1) Not all ethnic minority women wear the veil!

    2) Plenty of prominent British Muslim ladies do not wear religious paraphernalia, like Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, Saira Khan, Rupa Huq MP, Tulip Siddiqui MP, etc.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,293

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

    It was NOT "Muslim Women" - it was "Muslim women wot wear the veil".
    Either way, Johnson thinks it's ok for Johnson to tell ethnic minority women what to wear.
    1) Not all ethnic minority women wear the veil.

    2) Plenty of prominent British Muslim ladies do not wear religious paraphernalia, like Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, Saira Khan, Rupa Huq MP, Tulip Siddiqui MP, etc.
    1 and 2 are both true, but I'm not sure what they have got to do with what I wrote.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 76,757
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    kamski said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

    It was NOT "Muslim Women" - it was "Muslim women wot wear the veil".
    Either way, Johnson thinks it's ok for Johnson to tell ethnic minority women what to wear.
    Who knew that Islam was an ethnicity?

    Idiot.
    here's a tip, to avoid making an "idiot" of yourself, try replacing the word "Islam" with the word "Judaism" or the world "muslims" with the word "jews" in any statement to see how it sounds, it should help you with your blindspot.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew?

    I think you should read this, and quite a lot else besides, before you post any more of your nonsense on here.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    I have to say after watching Boris Johnson on the TV today, I cannot imagine him as PM. He comes across very badly, unprofessional, glib and inarticulate. Johnson does not look the part, sound the part or have the judgement required for such an important role. He may well become PM but having a joke like that as PM is not funny!

    And neither is Corbyn as LTO
    True, I am in complete dispair at the moment about UK politics. The whole country seems to have gone haywire.
    Why can't we just go back to the good old days of killing millions in far-flung countries, unrestrained apocalyptic damage to the environment, sidelining of minorities, and never-ending transfer of wealth to the richest? You know, when people were polite.
    I did not support the 2003 onward Gulf war. My thinking on that is G W Bush only embarked upon that was because it was unfinnished business from the 1991 war in the eyes of the neo con advisers G W Bush surrounded himself with. If we Brexit we will likley be ever more intertwinned with US wars as we seek a closer trade relationship.

    The problem with environmentalism is it is like chasing shadows, as soon as x is implemented people want y. It is never ending! I do think the global population needs to live a more sustainable consumption of resources but the UK cannot impact the global problem alone as it is futile.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929
    kamski said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

    It was NOT "Muslim Women" - it was "Muslim women wot wear the veil".
    Either way, Johnson thinks it's ok for Johnson to tell ethnic minority women what to wear.
    Who knew that Islam was an ethnicity?

    Idiot.
    here's a tip, to avoid making an "idiot" of yourself, try replacing the word "Islam" with the word "Judaism" or the world "muslims" with the word "jews" in any statement to see how it sounds, it should help you with your blindspot.
    Indeed and just as it is offence to Muslims to suggest Islam demands women not be seen and be covered up from head to toe, it would be equally offensive to Jews to suggest Judaism demands it too.

    Why do you have so little respect for Islam that you are prepared to tar the entire religion with the misogynistic behaviour of a few?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929

    I have to say after watching Boris Johnson on the TV today, I cannot imagine him as PM. He comes across very badly, unprofessional, glib and inarticulate. Johnson does not look the part, sound the part or have the judgement required for such an important role. He may well become PM but having a joke like that as PM is not funny!

    And neither is Corbyn as LTO
    True, I am in complete dispair at the moment about UK politics. The whole country seems to have gone haywire.
    Why can't we just go back to the good old days of killing millions in far-flung countries, unrestrained apocalyptic damage to the environment, sidelining of minorities, and never-ending transfer of wealth to the richest? You know, when people were polite.
    I did not support the 2003 onward Gulf war. My thinking on that is G W Bush only embarked upon that was because it was unfinnished business from the 1991 war in the eyes of the neo con advisers G W Bush surrounded himself with. If we Brexit we will likley be ever more intertwinned with US wars as we seek a closer trade relationship.

    The problem with environmentalism is it is like chasing shadows, as soon as x is implemented people want y. It is never ending! I do think the global population needs to live a more sustainable consumption of resources but the UK cannot impact the global problem alone as it is futile.
    As soon as we have clean water people want clean air. Shocking!
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    I have to say after watching Boris Johnson on the TV today, I cannot imagine him as PM. He comes across very badly, unprofessional, glib and inarticulate. Johnson does not look the part, sound the part or have the judgement required for such an important role. He may well become PM but having a joke like that as PM is not funny!

    And neither is Corbyn as LTO
    True, I am in complete dispair at the moment about UK politics. The whole country seems to have gone haywire.
    Why can't we just go back to the good old days of killing millions in far-flung countries, unrestrained apocalyptic damage to the environment, sidelining of minorities, and never-ending transfer of wealth to the richest? You know, when people were polite.
    I did not support the 2003 onward Gulf war. My thinking on that is G W Bush only embarked upon that was because it was unfinnished business from the 1991 war in the eyes of the neo con advisers G W Bush surrounded himself with. If we Brexit we will likley be ever more intertwinned with US wars as we seek a closer trade relationship.

    The problem with environmentalism is it is like chasing shadows, as soon as x is implemented people want y. It is never ending! I do think the global population needs to live a more sustainable consumption of resources but the UK cannot impact the global problem alone as it is futile.
    Not accusing you of supporting any of those specific things, I'm just saying that as wild as things look right now, the previous status quo which sensible centrists want to return to wasn't so hot either.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 24,634
    RoyalBlue said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

    It was NOT "Muslim Women" - it was "Muslim women wot wear the veil".
    Either way, Johnson thinks it's ok for Johnson to tell ethnic minority women what to wear.
    Who knew that Islam was an ethnicity?

    Idiot.
    Who knew it might be simple to elucidate the ethnic background of UK Muslims ?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#/media/File:British_Muslims_Ethnic_groups.png

    Idiot.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 40,929
    HYUFD said:
    LOL!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 3,228

    I have to say after watching Boris Johnson on the TV today, I cannot imagine him as PM. He comes across very badly, unprofessional, glib and inarticulate. Johnson does not look the part, sound the part or have the judgement required for such an important role. He may well become PM but having a joke like that as PM is not funny!

    And neither is Corbyn as LTO
    True, I am in complete dispair at the moment about UK politics. The whole country seems to have gone haywire.
    Why can't we just go back to the good old days of killing millions in far-flung countries, unrestrained apocalyptic damage to the environment, sidelining of minorities, and never-ending transfer of wealth to the richest? You know, when people were polite.
    I did not support the 2003 onward Gulf war. My thinking on that is G W Bush only embarked upon that was because it was unfinnished business from the 1991 war in the eyes of the neo con advisers G W Bush surrounded himself with. If we Brexit we will likley be ever more intertwinned with US wars as we seek a closer trade relationship.

    The problem with environmentalism is it is like chasing shadows, as soon as x is implemented people want y. It is never ending! I do think the global population needs to live a more sustainable consumption of resources but the UK cannot impact the global problem alone as it is futile.
    Hi Taxman.

    What is your feeling about equities at the moment? Is it time to move to gold, or other?
  • isamisam Posts: 33,501
    Foxy said:
    I would see Rory as Solskjaer there, a quirky candidate with no real experience vs Boris' Poch, the long term favourite who has enjoyed relative success at a slightly lower level
  • kamskikamski Posts: 1,293
    RoyalBlue said:

    kamski said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    kamski said:

    One of the most depressing things about the possibility of Boris Johnson as PM is he is openly racist, sexist and homophobic. And doubly depressing that a lot of people don't seem to be that bothered by this.

    take this not so well known example:
    'In 2001, Johnson wrote in his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen that “if gay marriage was OK – and I was uncertain on the issue – then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men, or indeed three men and a dog”.'

    from this list:
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/boris-johnson-s-racist-insults-dog-whistles-and-slurs

    Bit more than 'not bothered'. Approving. The Trump effect. Toxic. Potent. Pervasive. Insidious. Far-reaching.

    It was NOT "Muslim Women" - it was "Muslim women wot wear the veil".
    Either way, Johnson thinks it's ok for Johnson to tell ethnic minority women what to wear.
    Who knew that Islam was an ethnicity?

    Idiot.
    here's a tip, to avoid making an "idiot" of yourself, try replacing the word "Islam" with the word "Judaism" or the world "muslims" with the word "jews" in any statement to see how it sounds, it should help you with your blindspot.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew?

    I think you should read this, and quite a lot else besides, before you post any more of your nonsense on here.
    ok so my mum has no jewish ancestors that I know of and converted to judaism when I was a teenager. is she a jew?
    (clue: yes)
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 10,304
    It is not clear that a new PM always receives a significant Honeymoon boost - or that it lasts long. Macmillan was not riding high in early 1957 - neither was Douglas-Home at the end of 1963. Wilson become PM in mid- October 1964 yet lost the supposedly safe seat of Leyton to the Tories at a by election in January 1965. Callaghan took office at the beginning of April 1976 yet Labour did not fare particularly well at the May 1976 Local Elections - and was very unpopular by the Autumn. Johnson is much better known as a personality than his predecessors and will carry high expectations from his supporters. The potential for disappointment is likely to be very great.
This discussion has been closed.